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02:25:36 <Gs30ng> Is there any more 'udageoid' except for Glypho and Trigger?
02:26:25 <Gs30ng> Well I haven't expected any 'udageoid' because I thought it's not that notable idea
02:26:46 <Gs30ng> but well, it is, apparently
02:27:00 <Gs30ng> I also considered about the way of Glypho
02:50:29 <Gs30ng> anyway Glypho exists now, seems like it's made when i was absent, i'm shocked
02:50:46 <Gs30ng> Wildhalcyon made a great work i think
03:02:26 <Gs30ng> right now i'm just writing down v0.2 spec of udage
03:02:34 <Gs30ng> what do you think of this language GregorR
03:05:40 <Gs30ng> well i mean what do you think of v0.1 udage
03:06:25 <Gs30ng> (english version of v0.2 spec is unavailable for a couple of minutes, i'm just working on it)
03:16:31 <GregorR> I like it, but I haven't had enough time to really do anything in it ... I've been busy in the past few weeks.
03:17:30 <Gs30ng> i've been too. i'm preparing an exam which truly kills me
03:18:21 <Gs30ng> now i'm just taking a break and devoting it to complete the spec... :)
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04:36:01 <tokigun> now i'm working on crc32 checksum in befunge
04:36:33 <Gs30ng> i'm working on new udage spec in english
05:13:33 <Gs30ng> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Udage
05:13:39 <Gs30ng> this is as far as i can do
05:14:40 <Gs30ng> new specification is now on there... if somebody's interested, check out
05:15:15 <Gs30ng> this time it seems to be turing complete... but i'm not sure
05:18:50 <Gs30ng> freak NANDN1 operation is gone and some new concepts from this channel are accepted
05:21:01 <Gs30ng> i'm so exhausted and so satisfied... except for poor english translation of stuffs. corrections are totally welcomed
05:30:00 * GregorR puts on his "official broken English to correct English translator" hat.
05:31:13 <Gs30ng> oh, udage website(containing full spec) is also wikiwiki
05:31:18 <Gs30ng> feel free to correct it too
05:31:46 <GregorR> Aha, that means I can nitpick with no victim :)
05:33:17 <Gs30ng> yeap, nobody's gonna realize it ever nitpicked :)
05:45:20 * GregorR puts his stamp of grammatic approval on it.
05:45:27 <GregorR> It wasn't too bad, just a few "the"s and such *shrugs*
05:46:01 <Gs30ng> i am the very victim of THE Disease
05:46:38 <Gs30ng> it appears that who spend long time on coding in Malbolge cannot use THE in right way
05:47:38 <Gs30ng> first time i heard it i thought it's no more but ridiculous, but nowadays i feel like i really write some Malbolge code in my dream...
05:57:18 <GregorR> For example, when you said "cannot use THE in right way" you should have said "cannot use THE in /the/ right way"
05:58:36 <Gs30ng> i see.. well that's a difficult point for Asian
06:00:01 <Gs30ng> even i sometimes correct some the-related mistakes of my friends, but now i feel like... they were right but i told them wrong way and made more victims of the disease...
06:00:34 <Gs30ng> damn i'd rather use babelfish
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06:53:21 <Gs30ng> my friends are asking me about the spec
06:54:04 <Gs30ng> i wonder if there's something confusing in spec
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16:05:57 <Keymaker> grhh.. writing a brainfuck program goes something like this for me: 1. write the program 2. notice that it doesn't work 3. realize some stuff that could've done other way 4. don't bother finding the bug, start writing the program again with more care
16:16:15 <jix> Keymaker: haha.. same here
16:24:42 <Keymaker> and often the errors are so unnoticeable
16:24:58 <Keymaker> like moving one cell less than supposed or something like that
16:25:23 <Keymaker> there can be often strange effects and things that look working but don't work with certain input or such
16:25:42 <Keymaker> (because of an error somewhere)
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16:41:59 <[HU]NoOnE> I was thinking about entering a brainfuck golf contest, do I have any chance as a newbie?
16:42:41 <jix> which contest?
16:43:03 <[HU]NoOnE> I just want to ask you about all this
16:43:24 <jix> there is only one brainfuck contest running i know of
16:43:39 <jix> and it's a difficult one...
16:44:24 <[HU]NoOnE> oh, does it have some kind of homepage?
16:44:53 <jix> ask Keymaker
16:45:15 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/ibfc.html
16:45:29 <Gs30ng> Keymaker, i've just completed the new spec of udage
16:45:56 <Gs30ng> you can check out esolang wiki
16:46:45 <Keymaker> noone: nice to see more brainfuckers
16:46:51 <[HU]NoOnE> I don't see it exactly, do we use 8-bit cells?
16:47:18 <jix> afaik 8-bit wrapping cells
16:47:34 <jix> NONwrapping?
16:47:51 <Keymaker> "One-byte non-wrapping memory cells, non-wrapping memory array."
16:48:04 <Keymaker> (there's said 8-bit as well, btw)
16:48:08 <jix> i can trash all my code :(
16:48:24 <jix> byte !=> 8bit
16:48:53 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops, didn't notice it, I was looking for 8 or 16
16:49:04 <jix> there are bytes that have a different size
16:49:20 <Keymaker> oh, i thought byte meant always 8 bits
16:49:44 <jix> what does happen if i decrement a zero byte?
16:50:17 <jix> than i'm not going to join the comp... all BF algorithms i know are for wrapping cells
16:51:25 <Keymaker> if you increase cell with value 255, it can not go to 0
16:51:31 <jix> 255++ => error 0-- => error
16:51:43 <Keymaker> and same with decreasing, if cell is 0, it won't go to 255 if you decrease it
16:52:25 <Keymaker> and btw, noone: it is not part of brainfuck golf!
16:52:34 <Keymaker> (you probably thought so because it was in bf golf forum)
16:52:53 <[HU]NoOnE> so bf golf is not a kind of contest, but a row of contests?
16:52:54 <Keymaker> i'm just using brainfuck golf forums, because i haven't bothered making own brainfuck forums
16:53:08 <Keymaker> but i have never ran any bf golfs
16:53:16 <Keymaker> i'm just using their forum since nobody cares ;)
16:53:49 <Keymaker> btw, how did you end up to bfgolf forums?
16:54:47 <[HU]NoOnE> I was looking around (I think "esoteric languages" in google), then I found this channel
16:54:57 <[HU]NoOnE> where I saw where the logs can be found
16:56:31 <Keymaker> btw, have you programmed anything with brainfuck yet?
16:57:39 <[HU]NoOnE> some small excercises, like counting from 0-255 in a 16-bit one (something like BFDev)
16:58:12 <Keymaker> then i can pretty much say this competition is impossible for you
16:58:39 <Keymaker> i doubt even i get my entry done..
16:59:14 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops... Then even a correct, non-optimal program is good to have?
16:59:39 <Keymaker> yeah, one can have non-optimal program in this competition
16:59:48 <[HU]NoOnE> well, a program that works, but is slow and big...
16:59:56 <Keymaker> but one must not make it with any brainfuck code generator such as bf-basic..
17:01:09 <Keymaker> tokigun: really interesting project!
17:01:58 <tokigun> Keymaker: code is complete now, but i have to make it smaller
17:02:15 <tokigun> http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/code-original.txt
17:02:42 <tokigun> i tried to make it smaller but it doesn't work.
17:02:55 <Keymaker> optimizing befunge can be rather hard
17:03:50 <Keymaker> i'll try to read it a bit.. :)
17:04:08 <tokigun> http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/design.txt
17:04:26 <tokigun> before writing it, i wrote this pseudo-code to check algorithm
17:05:04 <Keymaker> yeah, that can be very very useful
17:06:07 <tokigun> in funge-98, when EOF, "~" works as "r".
17:06:27 <tokigun> buf in befunge-93, when EOF "~" is undefined behavior
17:07:16 <tokigun> i checked several befunge-93 interpreters, and found most of them uses fgetc(stdin) or getchar() to implement "~"
17:07:48 <Keymaker> do they leave the value unmodified?
17:08:27 <tokigun> EOF is macro constant in C
17:09:04 <tokigun> at least, it has to be less than 0
17:09:26 <tokigun> so i have to write two codes to process EOF
17:09:43 <tokigun> (one for funge-98, and one for befunge-93 with fgetc)
17:11:18 <tokigun> Keymaker: have you tested it?
17:11:35 <Keymaker> i don't have interpreter on this computer and too lazy to get one
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17:48:50 <Gs30ng> finally you are here WildHalcyon
17:49:20 <Gs30ng> i am so fascinated about glypho
17:49:41 <WildHalcyon> I apologize for not having a basic interpreter ready yet. It's been a bad fortnight
17:49:54 <Gs30ng> and i've completed new spec of udage
17:50:25 <WildHalcyon> I took a look at it. It looks nice. Resembles huffman coding slightly.
17:50:46 <Gs30ng> Glypho could be better answer for symbol independentness
17:51:15 <Gs30ng> would you tell me more about huffman coding?
17:51:34 <Gs30ng> this time i tried to make udage turing complete, but i'm not sure
17:52:12 <WildHalcyon> Glypho is TREMENDOUSLY independent, which has some disadvantages as well. There's some ideas I had regarding how to make it better in that respect, but I like the way its turned out
17:53:19 <Gs30ng> actually i've considered about grouping several letters and checking the pattern of it
17:53:25 <WildHalcyon> Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huffman_coding for some huffman coding info.
17:53:32 <Gs30ng> i supposed 3 letter grouped parsing
17:54:09 <Gs30ng> but i just screwed up because it's kinda big deal, like it is no more 'udage'
17:55:43 <WildHalcyon> Ive got an extra instruction in glypho that I don't know what to do with :-(, mostly because the instruction I had in its place didnt seem to do anything
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18:01:11 <WildHalcyon_> sorry, I think you'll find that my computer is less than stable right now
18:01:18 <Gs30ng> i found that udage seems like a typo of usage
18:01:54 <WildHalcyon_> The words do differ by only a single letter. They convey entirely different sense of meanings however
18:02:14 <WildHalcyon_> udage sounds more like "sludge", which would be fitting for an esolang
18:02:48 <WildHalcyon_> sludge is viscous, like tar. Therefore, udage is like a tar... pit!
18:04:02 <Gs30ng> well even Google says "Did you mean usage?" when i try to search udage
18:05:11 <WildHalcyon_> Google is merely trying to confuse and disorient you.
18:06:12 <Gs30ng> i also work on a wiki named Usgae, which means joke or humor in Korean
18:06:45 <Gs30ng> so my friends ask what's wrong with me and the word 'usage'
18:09:06 <Gs30ng> there are 3 korean in this channel
18:09:38 <Gs30ng> i think 3 of us is all the esolang developer in entire korea :)
18:10:39 <Gs30ng> and well... maybe the fact that i'm purely korean makes my english suck :(
18:12:12 <Gs30ng> rest 2 korean's english is much better than mine
18:14:35 <Gs30ng> /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/-
18:15:50 <Gs30ng> tokigun, would you make him an interpreter that works on IRC?
18:20:11 <WildHalcyon_> Once I get the glypho interpreter finished, I need to work on my second "language"
18:20:51 <Gs30ng> you mean not a programming language?
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18:21:25 <WildHalcyon_> I mean it could be considered a progrtamming language, but not necessarily
18:22:48 <Keymaker> what could be considered as programming language?
18:24:36 <WildHalcyon_> Im trying to combine the interactivity of Forth with the fun IF-style programming of TRANSCRIPT
18:26:05 <WildHalcyon_> Its probably going to be object-oriented, with a verbal syntax similar to ORK
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18:27:05 <WildHalcyon_> but as the "player" you have an inventory, and "objects" have some specific properties
18:28:22 <kipple> Wildhalcyon: a suggestion for the last Glypho instruction: "Pop the 4 top elements and interpret the pattern as a Glypho instruction"
18:29:38 <Gs30ng> WildHalcyon_, where does the name Glypho came from?
18:30:03 <kipple> Glyph means symbol, right? (or atleast something similar)
18:30:03 <WildHalcyon_> After I finish glypho and interactive TRANSCRIPT, Im going to start on my bestselling book series, starting with "Learn to program in Perl in 24 years!"
18:30:05 <Gs30ng> i should have read the spec more carefully, but because of my humble english... :)
18:30:27 <WildHalcyon_> exactly kip - since its composed of symbols, its glyph-oriented
18:31:21 <WildHalcyon_> Year 5 of the book will be "sell this book, then look for a used copy later this year on ebay. Start up again at year 6."
18:32:20 <kipple> you mean like lazy evaluation applied to writing?
18:33:59 <WildHalcyon_> more like lazy evaluation applied to all walks of life.
18:34:15 <Keymaker> "learn brainfuck in finite time"
18:35:01 <kipple> gotta go. just had to mention my glypho suggestion before I forget it...
18:35:04 <WildHalcyon_> followed later by "Eventually understand how to code in Befunge"
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18:35:10 <WildHalcyon_> Thank you very much Kipple, I think its a winner!
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18:40:28 <chips> Usage: ~ ڵ : ڵ带 մϴ
18:41:23 <Gs30ng> that's an irc bot of my friend
18:41:39 <Gs30ng> instruction ~udage interprets the udage code
18:42:12 <Gs30ng> but there's something wrong with printing messages... i should ask him. wait a second
18:44:41 <chips> Usage: ~udage {code}
18:45:31 <Gs30ng> ~udage /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/-
18:45:31 <chips> result: 'Hello, World!'
18:45:31 <chips> order:0 1 13 25 37 49 61 72 83 95 107 119 131 143
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18:56:25 <jix> wb [HU]NoOnE
19:37:46 <Gs30ng> i think we can just wrap it
19:37:58 <Keymaker> yes, but i don't use wrapping memory
19:39:00 <WildHalcyon_> but its nice if you have arbitrarily large integers
19:39:39 <Keymaker> although i should give a try at that kind of brainfuck implementation sometime
19:39:39 <Gs30ng> well i think we don't even need it
19:39:46 <Gs30ng> like, we have infinite long tape
19:40:05 <Gs30ng> then even the cells are all bit, there's no problem :)
19:40:55 <Keymaker> i just meant that i perhaps should just try once an implementation that uses for example long ints.. doing stuff with them is naturally a lot easier than with only bytes
19:41:10 <Keymaker> but probably i don't have time to try that kind of thing for a long time
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23:07:58 <ihope> I think I'll go design the most comfusing game in the world now.
23:09:11 <ihope> Here's a denial-of-service IRP virus: Goodbye everyone!
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