00:11:13 -!- WildHalcyon has joined. 00:14:37 -!- WildHalcyon has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:10:46 -!- Aardwolf has quit ("Ik zen der is mee weg"). 02:24:19 -!- Gs30ng has joined. 02:24:28 I am so shocked 02:25:36 Is there any more 'udageoid' except for Glypho and Trigger? 02:26:25 Well I haven't expected any 'udageoid' because I thought it's not that notable idea 02:26:46 but well, it is, apparently 02:27:00 I also considered about the way of Glypho 02:50:29 anyway Glypho exists now, seems like it's made when i was absent, i'm shocked 02:50:46 Wildhalcyon made a great work i think 03:01:41 Heh 03:01:43 True 03:02:26 right now i'm just writing down v0.2 spec of udage 03:02:34 what do you think of this language GregorR 03:05:40 well i mean what do you think of v0.1 udage 03:06:25 (english version of v0.2 spec is unavailable for a couple of minutes, i'm just working on it) 03:16:31 I like it, but I haven't had enough time to really do anything in it ... I've been busy in the past few weeks. 03:17:30 i've been too. i'm preparing an exam which truly kills me 03:17:50 Oy 03:18:21 now i'm just taking a break and devoting it to complete the spec... :) 04:24:27 -!- Sgep has quit. 04:32:50 -!- tokigun has joined. 04:35:25 hello :) 04:35:36 hello tokigun 04:36:01 now i'm working on crc32 checksum in befunge 04:36:33 i'm working on new udage spec in english 05:13:22 OK 05:13:33 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Udage 05:13:39 this is as far as i can do 05:14:40 new specification is now on there... if somebody's interested, check out 05:15:15 this time it seems to be turing complete... but i'm not sure 05:18:50 freak NANDN1 operation is gone and some new concepts from this channel are accepted 05:21:01 i'm so exhausted and so satisfied... except for poor english translation of stuffs. corrections are totally welcomed 05:30:00 * GregorR puts on his "official broken English to correct English translator" hat. 05:30:22 rofl 05:31:13 oh, udage website(containing full spec) is also wikiwiki 05:31:18 feel free to correct it too 05:31:46 Aha, that means I can nitpick with no victim :) 05:33:17 yeap, nobody's gonna realize it ever nitpicked :) 05:45:20 * GregorR puts his stamp of grammatic approval on it. 05:45:27 It wasn't too bad, just a few "the"s and such *shrugs* 05:45:50 that point hurts 05:46:01 i am the very victim of THE Disease 05:46:38 it appears that who spend long time on coding in Malbolge cannot use THE in right way 05:47:38 first time i heard it i thought it's no more but ridiculous, but nowadays i feel like i really write some Malbolge code in my dream... 05:56:49 lol 05:57:18 For example, when you said "cannot use THE in right way" you should have said "cannot use THE in /the/ right way" 05:57:24 ;) 05:58:36 i see.. well that's a difficult point for Asian 06:00:01 even i sometimes correct some the-related mistakes of my friends, but now i feel like... they were right but i told them wrong way and made more victims of the disease... 06:00:34 damn i'd rather use babelfish 06:23:59 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:53:21 my friends are asking me about the spec 06:54:04 i wonder if there's something confusing in spec 06:58:11 -!- Arrogant has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC for those that like to be different"). 07:06:14 -!- Gs30ng has quit ("to reboot"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:52:32 -!- calamari has joined. 11:15:47 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:56:23 -!- calamari has joined. 12:01:24 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 12:01:52 -!- jix has joined. 12:02:09 moin 12:44:01 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:44:47 -!- jix has joined. 13:20:22 -!- fizzie has joined. 15:45:43 -!- sp3tt has joined. 15:58:58 -!- Keymaker has joined. 15:59:04 hello 15:59:09 fizzie: welcome back 16:05:57 grhh.. writing a brainfuck program goes something like this for me: 1. write the program 2. notice that it doesn't work 3. realize some stuff that could've done other way 4. don't bother finding the bug, start writing the program again with more care 16:08:29 then the cycle repeats :) 16:10:51 hehe, yeah 16:10:56 :) 16:16:15 Keymaker: haha.. same here 16:24:42 and often the errors are so unnoticeable 16:24:58 like moving one cell less than supposed or something like that 16:25:23 there can be often strange effects and things that look working but don't work with certain input or such 16:25:42 (because of an error somewhere) 16:32:59 -!- Gs30ng has joined. 16:34:05 -!- [HU]NoOnE has joined. 16:40:53 <[HU]NoOnE> Hello guys 16:41:12 hello 16:41:59 <[HU]NoOnE> I was thinking about entering a brainfuck golf contest, do I have any chance as a newbie? 16:42:41 which contest? 16:42:54 <[HU]NoOnE> I don't know, "a" contest 16:43:03 <[HU]NoOnE> I just want to ask you about all this 16:43:24 there is only one brainfuck contest running i know of 16:43:39 and it's a difficult one... 16:44:24 <[HU]NoOnE> oh, does it have some kind of homepage? 16:44:40 hi! 16:44:52 hi keymaker 16:44:53 ask Keymaker 16:44:54 wait a second.. 16:45:15 http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/ibfc.html 16:45:20 it's hard, yeah 16:45:22 <[HU]NoOnE> hello 16:45:26 hi 16:45:29 Keymaker, i've just completed the new spec of udage 16:45:36 ok 16:45:51 <[HU]NoOnE> whoa 16:45:55 :) 16:45:56 you can check out esolang wiki 16:45:59 ok 16:46:45 noone: nice to see more brainfuckers 16:46:51 <[HU]NoOnE> I don't see it exactly, do we use 8-bit cells? 16:46:59 <[HU]NoOnE> thanks, nice to be here :) 16:47:15 yes 16:47:18 afaik 8-bit wrapping cells 16:47:26 NONwrapping 16:47:34 NONwrapping? 16:47:47 yes 16:47:51 "One-byte non-wrapping memory cells, non-wrapping memory array." 16:47:59 urgh 16:48:04 (there's said 8-bit as well, btw) 16:48:08 i can trash all my code :( 16:48:13 :\ 16:48:24 byte !=> 8bit 16:48:44 ? 16:48:48 (i'm confused) 16:48:53 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops, didn't notice it, I was looking for 8 or 16 16:49:02 ok 16:49:04 there are bytes that have a different size 16:49:20 oh, i thought byte meant always 8 bits 16:49:44 what does happen if i decrement a zero byte? 16:49:51 ERROR 16:50:07 :) 16:50:17 than i'm not going to join the comp... all BF algorithms i know are for wrapping cells 16:50:36 :( 16:51:09 <[HU]NoOnE> what does nonwrapping mean? 16:51:14 it means that 16:51:25 if you increase cell with value 255, it can not go to 0 16:51:29 as wrapping would do 16:51:31 255++ => error 0-- => error 16:51:43 and same with decreasing, if cell is 0, it won't go to 255 if you decrease it 16:52:21 <[HU]NoOnE> ok 16:52:25 and btw, noone: it is not part of brainfuck golf! 16:52:31 <[HU]NoOnE> ? 16:52:34 (you probably thought so because it was in bf golf forum) 16:52:53 <[HU]NoOnE> so bf golf is not a kind of contest, but a row of contests? 16:52:54 i'm just using brainfuck golf forums, because i haven't bothered making own brainfuck forums 16:53:01 yeah 16:53:08 but i have never ran any bf golfs 16:53:16 i'm just using their forum since nobody cares ;) 16:53:28 <[HU]NoOnE> oh :) 16:53:49 btw, how did you end up to bfgolf forums? 16:54:47 <[HU]NoOnE> I was looking around (I think "esoteric languages" in google), then I found this channel 16:54:54 ok 16:54:57 <[HU]NoOnE> where I saw where the logs can be found 16:56:31 btw, have you programmed anything with brainfuck yet? 16:57:39 <[HU]NoOnE> some small excercises, like counting from 0-255 in a 16-bit one (something like BFDev) 16:57:47 ok 16:57:48 <[HU]NoOnE> nothing really serious 16:57:52 yeah 16:58:12 then i can pretty much say this competition is impossible for you 16:58:39 i doubt even i get my entry done.. 16:59:14 <[HU]NoOnE> whoops... Then even a correct, non-optimal program is good to have? 16:59:28 non-optimal? 16:59:39 yeah, one can have non-optimal program in this competition 16:59:48 <[HU]NoOnE> well, a program that works, but is slow and big... 16:59:53 <[HU]NoOnE> anyway, gotta go 16:59:56 but one must not make it with any brainfuck code generator such as bf-basic.. 17:00:00 ok 17:00:11 <[HU]NoOnE> I don't even know bf-basic! 17:00:13 <[HU]NoOnE> bye 17:00:17 ok, good :) 17:00:17 <[HU]NoOnE> see ya 17:00:19 bye 17:00:20 yeah 17:00:56 hello 17:01:00 hello 17:01:09 hello 17:01:09 tokigun: really interesting project! 17:01:15 that crc32 in befunge.. 17:01:28 how's it goin'? 17:01:58 Keymaker: code is complete now, but i have to make it smaller 17:02:07 woah 17:02:10 awesome 17:02:15 http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/code-original.txt 17:02:18 working code here. 17:02:39 ah 17:02:42 i tried to make it smaller but it doesn't work. 17:02:55 optimizing befunge can be rather hard 17:03:01 ;) 17:03:10 well. 17:03:50 i'll try to read it a bit.. :) 17:04:08 http://tokigun.dnip.net/.local/work/Works/esolang/befunge/crc32/design.txt 17:04:26 before writing it, i wrote this pseudo-code to check algorithm 17:04:58 nice 17:05:04 yeah, that can be very very useful 17:06:07 in funge-98, when EOF, "~" works as "r". 17:06:27 buf in befunge-93, when EOF "~" is undefined behavior 17:07:04 yeah 17:07:16 i checked several befunge-93 interpreters, and found most of them uses fgetc(stdin) or getchar() to implement "~" 17:07:26 yeah 17:07:48 do they leave the value unmodified? 17:08:05 nope 17:08:09 zero? 17:08:13 EOF 17:08:20 ehm 17:08:27 EOF is macro constant in C 17:08:30 ok 17:08:43 and it's -1? 17:08:54 generally it is -1 17:09:01 ok 17:09:04 at least, it has to be less than 0 17:09:26 so i have to write two codes to process EOF 17:09:43 (one for funge-98, and one for befunge-93 with fgetc) 17:09:55 hmm 17:11:18 Keymaker: have you tested it? 17:11:25 nope 17:11:35 i don't have interpreter on this computer and too lazy to get one 17:11:42 ;) 17:18:24 -!- [HU]NoOnE has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:48:26 -!- WildHalcyon has joined. 17:48:32 hello 17:48:33 howdy folks 17:48:41 hello 17:48:43 oh 17:48:45 How have you been keymaker? 17:48:50 finally you are here WildHalcyon 17:48:59 "i am fine, thank you" 17:49:04 :) 17:49:05 Finally! 17:49:14 :p 17:49:20 i am so fascinated about glypho 17:49:27 You are? 17:49:41 I apologize for not having a basic interpreter ready yet. It's been a bad fortnight 17:49:54 and i've completed new spec of udage 17:50:25 I took a look at it. It looks nice. Resembles huffman coding slightly. 17:50:46 Glypho could be better answer for symbol independentness 17:51:15 would you tell me more about huffman coding? 17:51:34 this time i tried to make udage turing complete, but i'm not sure 17:52:12 Glypho is TREMENDOUSLY independent, which has some disadvantages as well. There's some ideas I had regarding how to make it better in that respect, but I like the way its turned out 17:53:19 actually i've considered about grouping several letters and checking the pattern of it 17:53:25 Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huffman_coding for some huffman coding info. 17:53:32 i supposed 3 letter grouped parsing 17:54:09 but i just screwed up because it's kinda big deal, like it is no more 'udage' 17:55:43 Ive got an extra instruction in glypho that I don't know what to do with :-(, mostly because the instruction I had in its place didnt seem to do anything 17:59:14 -!- WildHalcyon_ has joined. 18:01:11 sorry, I think you'll find that my computer is less than stable right now 18:01:18 i found that udage seems like a typo of usage 18:01:20 :( 18:01:54 The words do differ by only a single letter. They convey entirely different sense of meanings however 18:02:14 udage sounds more like "sludge", which would be fitting for an esolang 18:02:29 lol 18:02:48 sludge is viscous, like tar. Therefore, udage is like a tar... pit! 18:03:03 rofl 18:03:20 See? Its a good name for an esolang. 18:03:29 perfect name 18:04:02 well even Google says "Did you mean usage?" when i try to search udage 18:05:11 Google is merely trying to confuse and disorient you. 18:06:12 i also work on a wiki named Usgae, which means joke or humor in Korean 18:06:45 so my friends ask what's wrong with me and the word 'usage' 18:07:09 Do you live in korea? 18:07:12 yeap 18:07:53 cool 18:09:06 there are 3 korean in this channel 18:09:38 i think 3 of us is all the esolang developer in entire korea :) 18:10:39 and well... maybe the fact that i'm purely korean makes my english suck :( 18:10:50 It doesn't suck that bad 18:12:12 rest 2 korean's english is much better than mine 18:12:54 Thats ok! 18:13:29 let me talk in udage 18:14:10 ? 18:14:35 /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/- 18:15:09 hmm, and that means...? 18:15:15 Hello, World! 18:15:32 oh, okay :-) 18:15:50 tokigun, would you make him an interpreter that works on IRC? 18:20:11 Once I get the glypho interpreter finished, I need to work on my second "language" 18:20:51 you mean not a programming language? 18:21:04 -!- WildHalcyon has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:21:25 I mean it could be considered a progrtamming language, but not necessarily 18:22:00 s/progrtamming/programming 18:22:21 interesting 18:22:48 what could be considered as programming language? 18:23:20 my constructor for interactive TRANSCRIPT 18:23:26 aha 18:24:36 Im trying to combine the interactivity of Forth with the fun IF-style programming of TRANSCRIPT 18:24:44 its the worst of both worlds! :-) 18:24:48 :) 18:26:05 Its probably going to be object-oriented, with a verbal syntax similar to ORK 18:26:14 -!- kipple has joined. 18:27:00 hi 18:27:05 but as the "player" you have an inventory, and "objects" have some specific properties 18:28:20 hi kipple 18:28:22 Wildhalcyon: a suggestion for the last Glypho instruction: "Pop the 4 top elements and interpret the pattern as a Glypho instruction" 18:28:35 hi 18:28:51 hi kipoohh, kip, you're outstanding! 18:29:02 hmm, that was strange. 18:29:05 hehe, not bad at all! 18:29:08 Anyhow, yes, kip, you're outstanding! 18:29:15 I know ;) 18:29:20 hehe 18:29:38 WildHalcyon_, where does the name Glypho came from? 18:30:03 Glyph means symbol, right? (or atleast something similar) 18:30:03 After I finish glypho and interactive TRANSCRIPT, Im going to start on my bestselling book series, starting with "Learn to program in Perl in 24 years!" 18:30:05 i should have read the spec more carefully, but because of my humble english... :) 18:30:27 exactly kip - since its composed of symbols, its glyph-oriented 18:30:58 aha 18:31:21 Year 5 of the book will be "sell this book, then look for a used copy later this year on ebay. Start up again at year 6." 18:32:20 you mean like lazy evaluation applied to writing? 18:33:41 loosely, yes. 18:33:56 lol 18:33:59 more like lazy evaluation applied to all walks of life. 18:34:15 "learn brainfuck in finite time" 18:35:01 gotta go. just had to mention my glypho suggestion before I forget it... 18:35:04 followed later by "Eventually understand how to code in Befunge" 18:35:08 -!- noricube has joined. 18:35:09 ok. bye 18:35:10 Thank you very much Kipple, I think its a winner! 18:35:16 -!- kipple has left (?). 18:36:55 -!- Lament has changed nick to lament. 18:40:03 -!- chips has joined. 18:40:28 ~udage 18:40:28 Usage: ~¿©´ÝÀÌ ÄÚµå : ¿©´ÝÀÌ Äڵ带 ½ÇÇàÇÕ´Ï´Ù 18:41:05 ? 18:41:23 that's an irc bot of my friend 18:41:39 instruction ~udage interprets the udage code 18:42:12 but there's something wrong with printing messages... i should ask him. wait a second 18:43:09 alright 18:44:41 ~udage 18:44:41 Usage: ~udage {code} 18:45:21 ~udage 18:45:21 result: '@' 18:45:21 order:0 1 18:45:31 ~udage /----/\\/\\\-----//\\/\/-----//\//\\-----//\//\\-----//\////-----/\//\\-----/\\\\\-----/\/\///-----//\////-----///\\/\-----//\//\\-----//\\/\\-----/\\\\/- 18:45:31 result: 'Hello, World!' 18:45:31 order:0 1 13 25 37 49 61 72 83 95 107 119 131 143 18:45:52 nice 18:56:03 -!- [HU]NoOnE has joined. 18:56:25 wb [HU]NoOnE 18:56:30 <[HU]NoOnE> hello 19:00:18 hi 19:08:34 hello 19:33:04 ah.. a brainfuck error 19:36:54 what is? 19:37:01 underflow 19:37:06 an unmatched brace? 19:37:12 no 19:37:14 underflow 19:37:16 decrement on 0? 19:37:17 Oh, hmm, yes, that could happen 19:37:23 yah 19:37:36 [-]- 19:37:44 yes 19:37:46 i think we can just wrap it 19:37:58 yes, but i don't use wrapping memory 19:38:48 Then its definitely an error 19:38:54 yes, i know :) 19:39:00 but its nice if you have arbitrarily large integers 19:39:15 no 19:39:39 although i should give a try at that kind of brainfuck implementation sometime 19:39:39 well i think we don't even need it 19:39:46 yes 19:39:46 like, we have infinite long tape 19:39:51 yes 19:39:54 i know 19:40:05 then even the cells are all bit, there's no problem :) 19:40:09 yep 19:40:55 i just meant that i perhaps should just try once an implementation that uses for example long ints.. doing stuff with them is naturally a lot easier than with only bytes 19:41:10 but probably i don't have time to try that kind of thing for a long time 19:41:18 probably i never will 20:09:46 -!- sp3tt has quit (Client Quit). 20:59:11 -!- WildHalcyon_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:40:34 -!- [HU]NoOnE has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:03:02 -!- J|x has joined. 22:12:41 -!- Keymaker has quit ("Funkadelic!"). 22:15:47 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:15:51 -!- J|x has changed nick to jix. 23:07:14 -!- ihope has joined. 23:07:58 I think I'll go design the most comfusing game in the world now. 23:09:11 Here's a denial-of-service IRP virus: Goodbye everyone! 23:09:16 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit). 23:31:10 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").