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02:07:52 <WildHalcyon> That interview I had was a complete sham. I feel like a moron.
02:52:53 * GregorR should look at timestamps before responding ...
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03:03:49 <Gs30ng> completed new conditional jump... now i am going to write 99Bob in Udage
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04:37:57 <WildHalcyon_> I have been in the process of looking for new employment
04:39:18 <GregorR> Yeah, not sure exactly what they do.
04:39:57 <WildHalcyon_> its a pyramid scheme. Technically, a "legal" pyramid scheme. More to the point though, its complete bullshit
04:40:19 <GregorR> If you said that in a job interview, that may be why it went badly ;)
04:40:35 <WildHalcyon_> Im still a little angry. No, I was very polite in the interview.
04:44:54 <WildHalcyon_> The fact that it was a sham interview. I was hoping for a real business, and maybe a real job.
04:45:27 <GregorR> I figured you might know what they were when you went in :P
04:46:36 <WildHalcyon_> I had no clue, to be honest. My efforts to research the 'company' didnt really google anything conclusive, except that they might be accountants. They're not, btw.
04:47:52 <GregorR> The official site makes it look like they're an advertizing firm.
04:48:51 <GregorR> But I see now how "multi-level marketing" can easily mean "pyramid scheme"
04:49:37 <WildHalcyon_> Well, this was before I had any idea thatthe folks I met with were connected with Amyway.
04:50:04 <GregorR> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
04:51:14 <WildHalcyon_> Im familiar with the company and "multi-level marketing" associated with it
04:51:39 <GregorR> I love, by the way, how it's essentially named "The American Way!"
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05:01:43 <calamari> how's it going? haven't been keeping up with the channel lately
05:02:04 <GregorR> Have you seen Gs30ng's latest Udage developments?
05:02:28 <GregorR> Which reminds me: Up for vote, Udaglane (Udage + Plane) as a good name for a 2-dimensional Udage I'm stewing?
05:03:29 <GregorR> Udaglane (8 chars) is too long, and brainfuck (9 chars) isn't?
05:03:51 <calamari> is there already a twodage? or tuodage?
05:04:12 <GregorR> That's what they /want/ me to name it!
05:04:27 <WildHalcyon_> Hey gs30, sorry Ive been researching my fraudulent company some more
05:04:29 <GregorR> Besides, Udaglane just sounds nice.
05:06:49 <Gs30ng> hmm... Udaglane. for me it sounds like something flies... i guess my brain worked like udage(uda) + glider(gl) + airplane(ane)
05:06:55 <WildHalcyon_> I stand by my "world ain't ready yet" comment. Then again, was the world ready for brainfuck? or intercal?
05:07:38 <Gs30ng> 2D udage... 2D glypho could be easy but 2D udage is... well...
05:09:17 <Gs30ng> shit my client program lacks
05:14:26 <WildHalcyon_> I've already been working on 2D glypho. Trying to determine the minimum number of symbols necessary. At first I thought 16, but I think only 8...
05:16:08 <Gs30ng> fundamental concept of udage includes regarding source code as linear; it even regards EOL as one udage, and repeating udages in row does something special... i don't think 2D udage is kinda easy nor successful...
05:16:54 <Gs30ng> maybe i can make Image Udage (Umage?) with ignoring 'newline's in image
05:18:04 <WildHalcyon_> not really. images don't have "newlines", they're generally organized as a linear array divided into chunks for each row
05:21:21 <Gs30ng> well i'm mentioning theoretical image to be source code of udage, not actual ways of image
05:21:47 <Gs30ng> for example i think i can't use JPEG file as source code of udage
05:22:26 <Gs30ng> (according to jpeg spec afaik)
05:31:08 <Gs30ng> i don't really know what's the 8-by-8 DCT, but it sounds like what i know... so probably that
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05:53:39 <Gs30ng> Udage wiki doesn't work in IE
05:54:19 <Gs30ng> the whole page is being not opened
05:54:23 <GregorR> Suffffffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr, stupid IE users!
05:54:29 <GregorR> Sufffffffffffffffferrrrrrrrrrrrr, stupid IE users!!!
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05:56:14 <Gs30ng> internet lectures which government services uses activex
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05:57:40 <Gs30ng> anyway i gotta fix this
06:00:48 <Gs30ng> is Udage Turing-complete?
06:02:25 <Gs30ng> it's obviously Turing-complete
06:02:39 <Gs30ng> since it's like Boolfuck
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06:09:48 <Gs30ng> well now it seems TOO like boolfuck
06:10:18 <GregorR> Just because you can make a one-to-one translation doesn't mean it's too similar.
06:11:05 <GregorR> I mean, Udage is all operands, Boolfuck is all operators.
06:11:31 <Gs30ng> but i just want more 'new' things
06:12:11 <Gs30ng> btw, is Udage all operands?
06:12:33 <GregorR> Some would say yes, some would say no.
06:13:02 <Gs30ng> but there's real operands
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06:13:17 <Gs30ng> like BC in AABC, B... in AAAB...A
06:14:17 <Gs30ng> A could be an operand. that's something to take a look...
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06:14:55 <Gs30ng> A is the key to start BVChanging operantion, but also operand of that operation
06:15:24 <Gs30ng> the operation gets A as argument and changes BV of A. that's right...
06:15:49 <GregorR> So the only disputable parts are AA, AAA and AAAA
06:16:09 <GregorR> I should have just said regex A* :P
06:16:29 <GregorR> N/M, that would have matched "" and "A" XD
06:18:42 <Gs30ng> it seems 4 udages in row are not operand but instruction
06:19:37 <GregorR> You're teetering on the edge of 0 instructions and infinite instructions XD
06:21:31 <Gs30ng> wait it's not infinite it's up to the number of symbols available
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06:37:30 <Gs30ng> ok then... seems Udage is Turing tarpit
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06:53:18 <nooga> yesterday i saw a real radiotelescope :D
06:53:46 <GregorR> Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
06:53:53 <nooga> http://www.astro.uni.torun.pl/index.html :>
06:54:25 <nooga> and i know how to destroy such things :>
06:54:46 <nooga> and i know how is the computer network built there
06:57:17 <nooga> antenna movement is controled by old 486 with dos aboard, there's HPUX in a control terminal, and every other computer there runs on Fedora Core 2 :D
07:01:46 <nooga> and data channel is a 2Gbit fiber-optic connection with the rest of radiotelescopes and computing facilities in the world :>
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07:06:40 <Gs30ng> somebody DCC send me something to drink
07:07:59 <nooga> damn, i must build a small radiotelescope in my backyard !
07:08:39 <calamari> nooga: that'd be cool.. but how? :)
07:09:52 <nooga> must contact with that guys from Piwnice radioastronomy centre :>
07:11:10 <nooga> first i need some grid and a detector :>
07:16:03 <calamari> reminds me of a pdf I have of a document made during the cold war, on how to build a radiation exposure meter using household materials
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15:28:53 <nooga> i wonder when i'll meet tokigun -.-'
15:29:44 <kipple> the wiki is down again :(
15:37:35 <kipple> wildhalcyon: do you have a direct link to the glypho spec? can't find it without the wiki...
15:42:36 <nooga> got fast connection and speakers?
15:42:44 <nooga> check this out: http://www.webfeatsdesign.com/wf5/v5f.html
15:48:50 <Robdgreat> "This site optimized for OC connections"
15:58:26 <nooga> cuz it works good for me
15:59:17 <Robdgreat> if I were on anything faster it'd be fine
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17:47:11 <jix> nooga: the site (webfeats...) is bad
17:48:05 <jix> if i want to get from one page to the next one i have to wait longer than 10 secs.. no site should ever take longer to load.. some studies showed that most users get bored after 10secs loading time
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17:48:33 <jix> and that's true for me... i usually press cancle after 10 secs (except when the content of the site is really important for me (wikipedia))
17:48:59 <kipple> I agree. a ton of flash animations between pages is bloody annoying
17:49:47 <jix> and a really bad thing (that should be banned from the internet) are websites that play sounds without asking the user
17:50:20 <jix> my loudspeaker volume was very high when i opened the site... WHOOOOOM... :(
17:50:32 <kipple> I think that's a problem of the web browsers really. They should have a volume control built in
17:50:50 <jix> websites shouldn't play sounds at all
17:51:15 <jix> i want to listen to music while i'm reading webpages
17:51:22 <jix> or play guitar
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18:14:29 <nooga> btw. i play guitar too :)
18:15:34 <jix> np: America - Sandman [ History - America's Greatest Hits ]
18:18:38 <nooga> np. in polish == ie. in english
18:19:56 <jix> i play punk, rock and metal
18:20:16 <nooga> what guitar have you got ?
18:20:18 <jix> but i like blues too
18:20:33 <jix> my e-guitar is a cheap yamaha guitar (/me has no money)
18:21:00 <jix> and my acoustic... need to check that... i just tried some at the shop...
18:21:26 <nooga> i've got electric Cort-X11
18:21:48 <kipple> I've got a japanese Fender Stratocaster
18:21:55 <nooga> and acoustic no-name chinesee guitar calles "Azalea" :D
18:22:09 <nooga> kipple: stratocaster o.O ?
18:22:48 <nooga> o.O is an emoticon with big eyes
18:22:56 <nooga> and small mouth :>
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21:04:10 <ihope> Any non-lurkers about?
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21:04:56 <ihope> EsoS has been scrapped and now I'm thinking about Felidae EsoKernel.
21:05:49 <ihope> Esoteric operating system.
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21:08:56 <kipple> what's the Feildae EsoKernel then?
21:09:48 <ihope> Well, it's pretty much a very simple operating system written in Brainfuck.
21:10:08 <GregorR> So it, presumably, does not run on real hardware.
21:10:27 <ihope> Right; it'd all have to be emulated.
21:11:01 <ihope> Unless, of course, somebody will donate such a server specifically for running Felidae.
21:11:24 <jix> i want a fpga with internal or external arm cpu, soldered, with large pins for adding other hw
21:12:04 <jix> (fpga is field programmable gate array)
21:12:07 <GregorR> /dcc-send jix FPGA-56480ARM5V.6
21:12:22 <ihope> Hmm, I looked that up right before you said that :-)
21:12:39 <ihope> Um, yes that sounds very cool. FPGA >:-)
21:12:49 <GregorR> Were you looking for XScale? :P
21:13:10 <jix> ah intels strongarm...
21:13:22 <jix> is it binary compatible to the arm7?
21:13:41 <jix> than xscale is ok
21:13:50 <jix> (i once learned arm7tdmi asm)
21:13:54 <GregorR> /dcc-send jix FPGA-56480XSCALE
21:14:37 <ihope> Hey, I haven't yet figured out what ARM is! :-)
21:14:52 <jix> Advanced Risc Machines
21:15:13 <ihope> Acorn RISC Machine?
21:15:31 <jix> the first arm chip was from acorn as was called Acorn RISC Machine afaik
21:16:13 <jix> but acorn went bankrupt
21:16:52 <jix> the arm chip was developed for computers but now they are used in many mobile phones or other embedded devices
21:17:18 <jix> (gba,nintendo ds,ipod,gp2x,....)
21:17:21 <heatsink> it has an exceptionally good performance per watt
21:18:19 <jix> the gp2x needs 2 AA batteries and runs 8h in video mode (and has 2x200mhz arm cpus)
21:18:22 <ihope> Porting of Mac OS X to the x86 architecture
21:18:28 <jix> has nothing todo with arm
21:18:43 <ihope> Supposedly it was done for performance-per-watt stuff, I think.
21:19:23 <jix> and there wasn't much porting... the darwin kernel was already multi platform and the higher level parts are OS independent... only some drivers and libs needed/need porting
21:19:58 <jix> they say they did it because IBM wasn't able to deliver enough ppc g5 chips
21:20:46 <ihope> I thought it was to enter the x86 market with a nice commercial operating system...
21:21:08 <jix> no.. apple makes no money with software... they make money with hw
21:21:23 <GregorR> Apple will not sell an OS that runs on generic Intel machines.
21:21:35 <jix> GregorR: but it does
21:21:39 <GregorR> They will still be Apples, just Apples with Intel chips.
21:21:53 <GregorR> jix: ... no it doesn't ...
21:21:55 <jix> some people i know run the beta even on amd machines...
21:22:12 <GregorR> The beta was leaked, and was for testing purposes only.
21:22:20 <GregorR> The release is not going to run on generic machines.
21:22:42 <jix> ihope: because no one will buy expensive apple hw then
21:22:59 <jix> GregorR: i think the final version will be cracked too
21:23:21 <jix> but i'm still going to use apple hw
21:23:23 <ihope> They have plenty of other stuff...
21:23:36 <jix> ihope: ipod.. and?
21:23:53 <ihope> Um. Mini and nano :-)
21:24:07 <jix> GregorR: the mighty mouse is 2 button!
21:24:10 <ihope> They're making a five-button aren't they?
21:24:18 <GregorR> OK, stupid two-button mice - still not three ;)
21:24:31 <GregorR> I couldn't use a computer without my precious middle button.
21:24:40 <jix> GregorR: 2 button + 2d scroll wheel that is clickable and it has an extra squeeze button
21:24:47 <GregorR> ihope: Wouldn't it be quite un-apple to make a five button?
21:25:06 <jix> GregorR: i'm using a m$ mouse on my apple
21:25:15 <jix> can't work without 2 button
21:25:21 <ihope> I'm using a tablet thinger.
21:25:37 <jix> have to sleep now
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21:26:06 <ihope> "Mighty Mouse is an animated superhero"... do you think I have the wrong page?
21:26:32 <GregorR> It's probably still the front page of www.apple.com
21:27:31 <ihope> That's the iPod Nano.
21:28:15 <GregorR> Oh, right, they made a new posterboy
21:31:03 <ihope> ...Okay. This is #esoteric, aye? :-)
21:32:45 <ihope> Shouldn't we keep it that way, or at least near to it?
21:34:43 <ihope> Okay. Maybe I'll annoy you with Felidae ;-)
21:36:03 <ihope> Okay. Felidae is a MMOG based on Brainf*** and stuff.
21:36:44 <GregorR> Errm, is it written in BF? If so, how is it O?
21:37:28 <ihope> The server would be running BF programs.
21:39:04 <ihope> Well, a person would connect to his account via Telnet, and a program would automatically be run to serve him with the game interface and stuff.
21:39:20 <ihope> He'd have to write this himself >:-)
21:41:46 <ihope> You know, I could do away with EsoKernel and make the user write that him/herself as well.
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21:43:45 <ihope> "Welcome to Felidae. Please write an operating system in the following space:"
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21:45:15 <ihope> Of course, you could just use any operating system somebody's put out in the ol' pool...
21:45:28 <ihope> Like a port of Linux into BF.
21:45:49 <GregorR> It would help to make GCC spit out BF first :P
21:45:54 <Gs30ng> it's AM6 here... i got up so early
21:46:19 <ihope> Indeed it would. Any volunteers?
21:46:33 <graue> Richard M. Stallman doesn't have anything better to do
21:47:59 <ihope> Isn't he getting paid to give speeches or something?
21:50:29 <Gs30ng> server down in which my website is
21:50:46 <graue> ihope, he has a grant from the MacArthur Foundation so I doubt he gets paid for speaking (he doesn't need it)
21:50:47 <Gs30ng> apparently it blacks out when it rains here
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