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01:35:17 <ihope> Well, I suddenly want to write a lambda unbinder.
01:35:46 <ihope> Well, lambda calculus just seems... fun.
01:40:42 <ihope> Yep. Addition is just a special type of number!
01:41:49 <ihope> You can add addition to multiplication, but it won't act like a number, really, I think...
01:43:58 <wildhalcyon> What about adding addition to the number gopher?
01:44:12 <ihope> Depends on what gopher is.
01:44:31 <wildhalcyon> apparently it depends on what addition is too
01:45:20 <ihope> ^mnfx.(mf)(nfx), I think.
01:46:59 <wildhalcyon> crazy, looks more like you accidentally hit your head on the keyboard, then matched the braces
01:47:48 <ihope> Maybe I'll configure mIRC to have a /unbind command.
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06:39:12 <Robdgreat> I looked it over and it seemed rather confusing
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06:49:09 <graue> I made a PROLAN-M interpreter
06:49:29 <graue> it will show up at www.esolangs.org/files soon but it is at www.esolangs.org/svn/esofiles/prolan-m/impl/prolan-m.c now
06:49:44 <graue> oh, it is actually called PROLAN/M I guess
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13:42:07 <kipple> Robdgreat: yes, Chef is fun :)
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14:56:39 <Robdgreat> [07:41] <kipple> Robdgreat: yes, Chef is fun :)
14:57:17 <Robdgreat> there aren't many chef sites though
14:57:39 <kipple> Yes, I know I said that. just wondering about your statement. like it was a noteworthy event or something, that I said something...
14:59:02 <kipple> and, I agree. there are far too few chef sites.
15:02:20 <kipple> have you written anything cool in it?
15:04:39 <kipple> if you use the Perl interpreter you should know that it doesn't accept the proper spelling of the Liquefy instruction. You have to use Liquify IIRC.
15:05:08 <kipple> that gave me lots of trouble till I figured it out (the error messages wasn't very helpful)
15:05:58 <Robdgreat> well if that's still the case, I might be subject to go in and fix it in the module
15:06:15 <Robdgreat> but I was planning on writing an interpreter in php
15:07:54 <kipple> the perl interpreter is also _extremely_ inefficient when using Auxillary recipes, so if manage to do that better, it will be the best interpreter out there :)
15:08:07 <Robdgreat> that's what Gregor was talking about, then
15:08:14 <Robdgreat> said the interpreter is really slow
15:09:07 <kipple> I made two versions of my 99 bottles of beer program. the on using auxillary recipes took about 45 minutes on my 187MHz linux box.
15:09:19 <kipple> The one without used "only" 5 mins....
15:10:39 <kipple> the reason is that each time you call an auxillary recipe ALL the stacks are copied
15:12:23 <Robdgreat> well my goal is to find a better way
15:13:13 <kipple> the main problem is that that's how the spec is
15:13:26 <kipple> but it have to be possible to do it more efficient
15:15:44 <Robdgreat> http://www.mit.edu/~puzzle/02/round2/05/1183
15:16:19 <Robdgreat> I think I'm going to pick some relatively lesser-known langs and showcase them on my site
15:27:04 <Robdgreat> hm the solution says it's smurf, but it doesn't look like smurf
15:28:16 <kipple> none of the Smurf links in the wiki works :(
15:38:51 <Robdgreat> http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s973431/smurf_pl.html
15:45:18 <Robdgreat> http://www.zxdemo.org/muriel/smurf.txt
15:51:12 <Robdgreat> now mirrored at http://esoteric.thepaddedcell.org/smurf
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16:15:11 <wildhalcyon> Rob, smurf is one of my all-time favorite languages
16:15:51 <Robdgreat> well the links to the info for it are inaccurate on the wiki
16:16:01 <wildhalcyon> I wish it had more of a standardized arithmetic
16:16:05 <Robdgreat> guy took the site down and then moved it
16:16:12 <Robdgreat> I had to do some detective work to track it down
16:16:22 <wildhalcyon> Hmmm, that was the original site, it was up for a long time
16:16:40 <wildhalcyon> you coulda asked me ;-) I've got the specs for a few languages stored locally
16:17:48 <Robdgreat> well now I have it stored on my site
16:20:13 <Robdgreat> wonder if you could make a list of the specs you have
16:32:43 <wildhalcyon> Sure, I'll do that this afternoon when I get home
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18:12:00 <Keymaker> too bad quine is impossible in it
18:42:14 <jix> i'm going to write a german eso lange
18:42:29 <jix> i don't have a good idea
18:42:40 <Keymaker> the whole language is esoteric already
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18:51:33 <graue> Robdgreat: your SMURF mirror is misconfigured
18:51:50 <graue> Robdgreat: if I try to view the smurf.pl file, instead of showing it to me, it tries to execute it, returning a 500 Internal Server Error
18:52:16 <graue> also, all the SMURF stuff is now in the esoteric file archive, and will be showing up there soon
18:52:56 <graue> Keymaker: figure out how to do anything fun in PROLAN/M yet?
18:53:28 <Keymaker> but haven't had anything done yet
18:53:36 <Keymaker> perhaps digital root calculator.. :D
18:53:40 <graue> apparently I'm just barely smart enough to write an interpreter for the language, and not enough to write anything interesting in it
18:54:25 <graue> the IOI'90 paper describing it suggests you write a program that takes a string of the form "<nr1>+<nr2>=?" and outputs "<nr1>+<nr2>=<nr3>" where all the nrs are natural numbers, and nr3 is the sum of nr1 and nr2
18:54:50 <graue> I have yet to figure out how that's even possible
18:55:17 <Keymaker> considering there's no output character, it's very hard
18:55:18 <graue> I guess first you replace "0=?" with something, and so on?
18:55:53 <Keymaker> i guess one first feeds it some data "11+11=22"
18:56:04 <graue> no, the data you'd feed it would be "11+11=?"
18:56:22 <Keymaker> i was thinking the other and writing the other
18:56:32 <Keymaker> and the final output is "11+11=22"
18:57:16 <Keymaker> only way to do it is the have some internal structure in the program that will be removed before ending the program
18:57:44 <Keymaker> by the way, if there's for example data "aaaaa" and you execute instruction (a,b), does it execute it 5 times?
18:57:52 <graue> and use the knowledge that "=?" will only be there at the beginning
18:58:00 <graue> no, it only makes one replacement per rule execution
18:58:19 <graue> perhaps you can clarify that on the wiki article
19:00:19 <graue> the original Muriel pages seem to be gone (they're not at the new URL where Smurf is)...
19:01:45 <Keymaker> in the c interpreter, do i give the input string as file or just write it there?
19:02:05 <graue> just write it there, it's "prolan-m [sourcefile] [inputstring]"
19:02:12 <graue> quote it if it has spaces
19:06:18 <Keymaker> hmm. there probably can't be any initial data if the program gets input?
19:08:14 <graue> there can't be any initial data other than the input string, right
19:08:33 <Keymaker> except when using (,something)
19:08:38 <Keymaker> but that isn't kind of initial
19:09:11 <graue> the replaced string has to be nonempty
19:09:17 <graue> (something,) on the other hand is allowed, though
19:09:55 <graue> I'm going to write a hello world program
19:10:53 <graue> well, I'll assume the input string only contains ASCII printable characters besides ',' and ')'; spaces; and newlines
19:11:04 <graue> then I'll replace each of those characters with a's, except for 'a'
19:11:08 <graue> then I'll replace 'aa' with 'a'
19:11:13 <graue> then I'll replace 'a' with 'hello, world!'
19:11:43 <Keymaker> but there's no way to make real programs without input..
19:11:54 <Keymaker> this language is input-dependable
19:12:04 <graue> I guess my program won't work if the input string is empty :)
19:14:53 <Keymaker> i wonder why the left can't be empty--
19:15:43 <Keymaker> ..probably because there is the ending thing (,)
19:16:36 <Keymaker> well, 99 bottles of beer program could just assume user to input "99" :)
19:17:03 <graue> hey, yeah, and it becomes a 131072 bottles of beer program if you input "131072"
19:17:04 <Keymaker> can one print a new-line, btw?
19:17:15 <graue> of course, just like any other character in the final string
19:17:47 <Keymaker> but printing ')' isn't possible, right?
19:18:07 <graue> unless they appear in the input string, in which case, they are stuck there and cannot be changed
19:18:07 <Keymaker> but how do you make it print a new-line?
19:22:37 <graue> the matched and replaced string are specifically defined as containing any ASCII character other than ',' and ')'
19:22:43 <graue> they can contain '(', though
19:28:55 <graue> I am dumb and my way of printing "hello world!" does not work
19:29:09 <graue> in fact, I have to assume that the input string does not contain h, e, l, o, w, r, d, space, or exclamation mark
19:31:49 <graue> now it works as long as the input doesn't contain any of that stuff
19:35:11 <Keymaker> some things are simpler than in thue because this language executes every time stuff from top to bottom, right?
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19:36:20 <wildhalcyon> Its been too long since I've programmed in a conventional language...
19:37:05 <wildhalcyon> Seriously! I can barely get this stupid glypho interpreter off the ground. Keep having to refer to my C book...
19:37:20 <wildhalcyon> "How do I open files again?.. hmm.. that makes no sense"
19:38:03 <Keymaker> before doing my brainfuck/c polyglot quine i couldn't use printf..
19:38:57 <wildhalcyon> I want the command line to be "glypho file.gly", that's it. Nothing fancy. Im working on the stack, that's not too hard...
19:38:58 <GregorR> FILE *a = fopen(filename, "r"/"w");
19:39:07 <GregorR> if (!a) { perror(filename); exit(1); }
19:39:31 <wildhalcyon> right, but that still entails looking at the command line crap. I hate all that...
19:39:48 * GregorR gives C a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig hug.
19:40:41 <wildhalcyon> I like see too, but its been so long gregor. I mean.. YEARS since Ive done a serious project in it. By serious I mean more than 5-20 lines long
19:42:24 <GregorR> It prints out a handy string of the error that last occurred.
19:44:54 <GregorR> For most syscalls you would use the name of the syscall, but for ones that take files it's generally more useful to use the filename.
19:45:02 <GregorR> Then it will say something like "a.out: file not found"
19:45:16 <Keymaker> btw, any other term for "erroristic behaviour"
19:45:32 <GregorR> Well, erroristic isn't a word, soooo
19:46:06 <GregorR> I'm just not sure what you mean, error-prone or behaviour that happens when there's an error?
19:46:39 <Keymaker> i mean like there may happen stuff that isn't controlled or defined or something
19:47:15 <Keymaker> i guess "undefined behaviour" could suffice
19:51:06 * wildhalcyon copying format from spoon.c - spoon is cool, also a good inspiration for glypho
19:51:23 <wildhalcyon> the only reason Im making a glypho interpreter is so people can try it out and give me time to work on my new esolang
19:51:46 <wildhalcyon> I love glypho a lot, and I'd like to develop more for it once I've got my REAL esolang out of the way (glypho was just meant to be a pet project)
19:53:10 <jix> wildhalcyon: what about e[ and e] ?
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19:54:06 <wildhalcyon> unless I come up with something really concrete... Im gonna just make it an error
19:54:57 <jix> e[ is read one source char an move right in the source file and e] is move left in the source file
19:55:10 <jix> makes it symbol dependet
19:55:43 <jix> my idea is bad
19:55:59 <wildhalcyon> a lot of glypho is bad. Dont blame yourself
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20:00:12 <wildhalcyon> so far I've got it to read in from the file... now I'm working on the translation and interpretation instructions
20:00:18 <wildhalcyon> interpretation will most likely take the longest...
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20:16:05 <graue> let's have a race where I try and implement glypho before you do
20:17:36 <wildhalcyon> graue, you'll win.. although Im working on it
20:19:53 <jix> and i try the same thing
20:20:03 <jix> but i have to do other things first
20:20:21 <graue> then we can see whose implementation is the fastest
20:20:26 <graue> anyone written mandelbrot in glypho yet?
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20:26:10 <graue> still working on that 99bob, Keymaker?
20:27:01 <Keymaker> making it in these kind of languages requires planning
20:27:07 <Keymaker> and i'm too lazy for that noew
20:28:59 <wildhalcyon> I haven't done it in glypho yet... characters in glypho are pretty difficult though. the 99.. part is easy
20:31:30 <wildhalcyon> 99[ddo" bottles of beer on the wall,"o" bottles of beer.\nTake one down, pass it around,\n"1-+" bottles of beer on the wall.\n\n"]
20:31:50 <wildhalcyon> everything in quotes is supposed to be outputting the ASCII values for those numbers
20:32:31 <wildhalcyon> A little more complicated if I need to output the ASCII for '99'
20:36:09 <Robdgreat> I mirrored and then had to leave, didn't even get a chance to try it
20:42:14 <graue> do we know if Glypho is Turing-complete?
20:43:08 <wildhalcyon> I think we showed it by being able to emulate bf.
20:43:15 <wildhalcyon> I haven't written a bf interpreter yet, but it shouldn't be difficult
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23:37:54 <wildhalcyon_> Im not sure. Somtimes windows thinks its a driver error, but Ive updated drivers for everything I have
23:38:45 <wildhalcyon_> ubuntu thinks it might possibly be able to solve the problem, but until I can get a working CD burner, I'll be waiting.
23:41:44 <calamari> nope, arizona.. really gone this time :)
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