01:29:11 <{^Raven^}> idea for esolang != clue to implementation
01:32:37 <{^Raven^}> have an idea for a wierd esolang implementation, got the basic structure worked but he rest is hiding from me
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01:34:53 <{^Raven^}> i'm stuck working out a language to use inside the esoteric structure
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08:38:08 <CXI> has anyone here heard of the J programming language?
08:38:51 <CXI> for some reason wikipedia doesn't have it under the esolang category
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13:04:28 <kipple> CXI: I wouldn't count J as an esolang
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13:44:01 <CXI> I'd say it's debatable :P
13:46:04 <jix> i'm working on a whitespace mandelbrot
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14:03:11 * nooga has got netbeans and everything...
14:27:24 <nooga> but i can't install !@$#@^% j2me -.-'
15:13:07 <jix> H4sIALCGhEMAA3VRWw6AMAj7bk/R+59SVso2TZxRSdMHMEkQ6+NTdR3CP8C4kNd4QVTDLlhP6NSmuAbR5txkjANiE8Tmcvrpg2kH1rl0HiavUd6ircHWMM0x7EjeyYrJJCpY+lpkMtMkhBqWB/XMzNZC9G5mqM6ZXb7ndELrFo/K3L/3cntbhY/7fWuxX0fdOU/z7L4X4QHBZEA/DAIAAA==
15:13:18 <jix> this is my gziped base64ed whitespace mandelbrot
15:15:00 <nooga> mandelbrot in whitespace?
15:15:47 <nooga> im playing with netBeans -.-'
15:37:46 <nooga> designing menus and everything is fun ... but time to code for real -.-'
15:37:52 <nooga> shish... i hate java
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19:31:19 <jix> moin Arrogant
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19:50:31 <jix> moin Keymaker
19:50:47 <jix> i wrote a whitespace mandelbrot
19:51:01 <jix> hmm? well it works like mandelbrot works...
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19:55:02 <jix> next lang to implement mandelbrot!
19:57:07 <jix> because there is a mandelbrot for befunge somewhere
19:57:53 <jix> hmm yeah why not...
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19:59:40 <jix> but i'd prefer to implement mandelbrot in a language not written by me
19:59:52 <jix> no wait! i'm going to implement a compression routine in axo!
20:00:10 <jix> my fungoid
20:00:19 <jix> (i wrote it before i knew befunge)
20:00:49 <jix> i knew there are 2dimensional languages but i never saw one then
20:01:32 <jix> here is the spec: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Axo
20:01:52 <Keymaker> yeah, i've seen it.. i just couldn't remember the name first
20:05:20 <jix> idea! write an optimizing axo compiler
20:05:29 <jix> but first compression
20:10:06 <jix> no nothing more today.. i'm too tired
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20:29:13 <kipple> hey Keymaker. Any progress with the bizarre basic?
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20:29:53 <ihope> Memory abstraction layer...
20:30:25 <ihope> The Memory Abstraction Layer for Esoteric Kernels.
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20:38:48 <Keymaker> i think bizarre basic will have memory inside the program file
20:39:37 <Keymaker> should the very first line be line 0 or line 1?
20:39:52 <kipple> I think the original basic used 1
20:40:16 <kipple> or you could use something else like -17.345
20:40:25 <kipple> but then again, maybe not
20:40:44 <Keymaker> i'll stick with the first one (ha ha ha)
20:41:26 <kipple> you could let the user define them himself
20:41:40 <ihope> I don't suppose you're going to use imaginary numbers in there at all?
20:41:50 <kipple> I remember from gwbasic (my first programming language), that you had to start each line with a number
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20:42:17 <kipple> I think that is a nice way to do it
20:42:35 <Keymaker> yeah, it's oldschool at least :)
20:43:32 <kipple> it was normal to use 10, 20, 30 etc. as line numbers so you could insert lines between them without renumbering
20:43:47 <ihope> How about not referencing lines by numbers, but by... something else?
20:43:56 <calamari> I think I've figured out how I want Linguine to work.. still a lot like Spaghetti
20:43:57 <kipple> if you use floating point line numbers that would be even more flexible!
20:44:46 <ihope> You could use functions as line identifiers...
20:45:03 <calamari> kipple: "spaghetti 2" basically
20:45:08 <kipple> you could use anything really
20:45:46 <calamari> kipple: it should be turing complete this time and not have the same pointer problem.. last time it was rather annoying to use without much eso-benefit
20:46:06 <kipple> don't remember the spaghetti language. sorry ;)
20:46:23 <calamari> that's okay.. it was never big
20:46:40 <calamari> it forced every instruction to be followed by a goto
20:46:51 <calamari> and every instruction had a line number
20:47:08 <calamari> so you could randomly rearrange the program lines and it still worked
20:47:30 <ihope> What if lines had to be arranged in a specific order, but characters within each lines could be randomly arranged?
20:48:07 <calamari> ihope: I think that would make it difficult to tell 123 from 321 :)
20:48:10 <Keymaker> hey, this was supposed to be basic..
20:49:10 <calamari> unless I came up with a different number system
20:49:43 <calamari> a=1, b=2, c=4, etc.. but then it would have a max number size
20:51:51 <ihope> Continue with ^[aa, ^[ab, ^[ac, etc
20:53:16 <Keymaker> planning a basic language is hard because there's so much stuff to choose from..
20:53:59 <calamari> oic.. so like basic with weird stuff added in?
20:54:12 <GregorR> I don't see how BASIC needs anything added to be bizarre ;)
20:54:47 <GregorR> It's pre-structured-programming.
20:54:51 <GregorR> It's spaghetti programming :P
20:54:53 <ihope> Just change the name to COMPLICATED and you've got an esoteric programming language :-)
20:54:55 <GregorR> (Not really, but basically)
20:55:11 <calamari> GregorR: nah.. quickbasic removes all the line numbers.. it's a good lang
20:55:20 <GregorR> I wasn't referring to line numbers.
20:55:21 <Keymaker> basics can be more low-level, in a way
20:55:33 <GregorR> I was referring to the fact that it doesn't have anything for decent data structures, etc.
20:55:46 <ihope> Is BASIC Turing-complete?
20:55:49 <calamari> GregorR: it has type (similar to struct)
20:58:44 <calamari> quick poll: perl, python, ruby, or java?
21:00:29 <calamari> is haskell free software? not seeing a debian package for it
21:00:47 <GregorR> Scripting, scripting, scripting or compiled?
21:00:49 <ihope> Doesn't Hugs have one?
21:01:05 <calamari> GregorR: ahh.. but they all run on vm's, don't they?
21:01:30 <GregorR> In the most technical sense, yes.
21:01:57 <calamari> but I don't know of such a thing
21:02:50 <calamari> the point is that none of those langs is compiled to linux, windows, etc native code
21:03:50 <calamari> befunge can be compiled as an interp + code.. but that's hardly compiled :)
21:03:54 <GregorR> It links to libperl, but I don't think it works by having an embedded interpreter.
21:04:07 <GregorR> I think libperl just provides convenience functions (so to speek)
21:04:42 <calamari> I thought gcj was doing a wrapper trick tho..
21:04:51 <lindi-> calamari: wrapper trick?
21:04:54 <GregorR> It links to a libjava, but, well, so does C :P
21:05:25 <lindi-> calamari: libjava is written in java and compiled to native
21:05:48 * calamari chooses python, since that was the only valid vote :)
21:07:00 <lindi-> calamari: apt-cache search haskell finds 69 packages
21:07:21 <GregorR> Well, not perl, and not Java, so I'd go with python.
21:07:44 <calamari> lindi-: weird.. must be Ubuntu then.. I have all sorts of haskell docs and things, but no haskell itself
21:08:34 <ihope> Haskell -> Lazy K?
21:08:35 <lindi-> ghc-cvs - GHC - the Glasgow Haskell Compilation system ?
21:08:36 <fizzie> Hugs is the interpreter I've used.
21:11:27 <fizzie> Debian is not being friendly to me again. Eclipse debs are in unstable only, and depend on libgcj6 >= 4.0.2-3, and 4.0.2-2 is the version in testing. Maybe I should switch completely to unstable and not try to have this weird hybrid.
21:13:07 <lindi-> fizzie: i run unstable under chroot, safe and easy
21:13:13 <calamari> I didn't use an eclipse package.. just d/led and installed
21:13:37 <fizzie> I've been using a manually downloaded eclipse so far, but since there is a debian package..
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