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00:06:56 <calamari> 300[-2|*-2]*-1 'NOT: -2 = NOT(*-2)
00:07:33 <calamari> 301[-2|*-3,-2|*-2]*-1 'AND: -2 &= *-3
00:07:55 <calamari> 302[-2|*-2,-4=*-3,-4|*-4,-2|*-4]*-1 'OR: -2 |= *-3
00:08:18 <calamari> 303[-4=*-3,-4|*-4,-4|*-2,-2|*-2,-2|*-3,-2|*-4]*-1 'XOR: -2 ^= *-3
00:08:39 <calamari> 304[-2|*-2,-4=*-3,-4|*-4,-2|*-4,-2|*-2]*-1 'NOR: -2 = ~(*-2 | *-3)
00:09:02 <calamari> 305[-4=*-3,-4|*-4,-4|*-2,-2|*-2,-2|*-3,-2|*-4,-2|*-2]*-1 'XNOR: -2 = ~(*-2 ^ *-3)
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00:09:21 <calamari> 306[-3=*-2,-2=0,-2-*-3]*-1 'NEG: -2 = -*-2, -2 = !*-2
00:09:53 * Sgep becomes dizzy
00:10:36 <calamari> Sgep: using NAND to construct the other logic operators
00:11:05 <calamari> NOT p = p NAND p
00:11:32 <calamari> p AND q = (p NAND q) | (p NAND q)
00:11:46 <calamari> whoops :)
00:11:49 <calamari> p AND q = (p NAND q) NAND (p NAND q)
00:11:50 <calamari> ;)
00:12:02 <calamari> p OR q = (p NAND p) NAND (q NAND q)
00:12:19 <Sgep> calamari: is this online somewhere?
00:12:29 <calamari> probably
00:12:48 <Sgep> If it isn't, I can put it online
00:13:05 <calamari> I've created a file of it 
00:13:13 <calamari> so I'll put that up in the linguine distro
00:13:36 <calamari> I did find XOR online, (Mathworld)
00:13:47 <calamari> It happens to be one NAND shorter than jix's
00:14:07 <calamari> note: NAND = |
00:14:34 <calamari> p XOR q = (p|(q|q)) | ((p|p)|q)
00:17:31 <calamari> it's possible that NOR and XNOR could be made shorter
00:17:50 <calamari> because I'm simply doing another NOT at the end and that may not be optimal
00:23:19 <calamari> afk
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04:25:35 <calamari> back
04:40:05 <calamari> cool... 4 nand xor: 303[-4=*-3,-4|*-2,-2|*-4,-4|*-3,-2|*-4]*-1
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07:14:56 <calamari> cya alll
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12:16:54 <jix> calamari: i just did ((a or b) and not (a and b)) => ((a or b) and (a Nand b)) => ((not a Nand not b) and (a Nand b)) => not ((not a Nand not b) nand (a Nand b)) (not is done using a nand a)
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14:26:09 <Gs30ng> long time no see
14:28:28 <puzzlet> identify yourself
14:28:38 <Gs30ng> how
14:30:03 <puzzlet> you know
14:30:16 <Gs30ng> no
14:30:19 <Gs30ng> tell me
14:30:50 <puzzlet> first, state your identification
14:30:57 <puzzlet> second, finish your statement
14:31:12 <Gs30ng> hmm
14:32:21 <Gs30ng> still don't know... why don't you first identify yourself? that'll be a guide for me
14:32:52 <puzzlet> because.
14:33:32 <puzzlet> 아발발다빠따반반나다발딸발발다빠따따맣발발다뿌
14:33:33 <puzzlet> 희멓터벅더떠벋떠벌더벌벌떠벌떠더법벍떠더벌벌떠
14:33:34 <puzzlet> oops
14:33:44 <Gs30ng> oops
14:34:07 <Gs30ng> impossible to see any utf-8 character... mIRC sucks
14:36:07 <lirthy> why don't you use telnet?
14:36:26 <Gs30ng> my windows telnet is on cp949
14:36:50 <Gs30ng> do you know how to make it utf8-based?
14:37:11 <lirthy> do you know "putty" client?
14:37:23 <puzzlet> there's linux, you know
14:37:24 <lirthy> it surpports utf-8 greatly.
14:37:36 <Gs30ng> oh, well, i use it for ssh connection...
14:38:02 -!- Freya has joined.
14:38:06 <Gs30ng> but well, IRC with a telnet client is... well crap it sucks more than mIRC
14:38:08 -!- Freya has left (?).
14:39:27 <puzzlet> all you have to do is \rJOIN #esoteric and some others
14:39:31 <lirthy> don't you want utf-8? it's good solution for utf-8 chat - except for ping manually.
14:39:39 <Gs30ng> manual ping
14:39:56 <jix> Gs30ng: get xchat
14:40:03 <lirthy> Gs30ng: get xchat
14:40:13 <puzzlet> Gs30ng: get xchat
14:40:20 <puzzlet> for great justice.
14:40:30 <Gs30ng> jix, i'd love to but my xchat is cracked
14:40:41 <lirthy> who's the bad cracker?
14:40:42 <Gs30ng> i mean, it totally does not work on my machine
14:40:57 <jix> get a new machine
14:41:10 <lirthy> get a new os
14:41:17 <jix> get both
14:41:19 <Gs30ng> DCC-send me a new machine
14:41:22 <puzzlet> get a rest
14:42:13 <Gs30ng> lirthy, nice to meet you... have we already met?
14:42:37 <puzzlet> deja vu
14:42:53 <Gs30ng> or are you a newcomer of esolang community? then, welcome
14:42:53 <lirthy> choose the red pill, and you can see the truth
14:44:01 <lirthy> Blue pill may taste Pepse Blue
14:44:08 <lirthy> s/Pepse/Pepsi/
14:44:08 <Gs30ng> lol
14:44:33 <Gs30ng> lirthy, then DCC-send me both. i'll choose.
14:44:45 <puzzlet> don't blame that it's not that bad
14:45:23 <Gs30ng> i haven't drunken any Pepsi blue... i really wonder how it would be tasted
14:47:05 <lirthy> there's a report of brave man in wikipedia... he said it's much more sugary
14:47:27 <Gs30ng> is that 'deployment' on topic a typo, or are esolangs truly deployed to our society(maybe secretly)?
14:48:18 <puzzlet> "brave man" reminds me of something
14:51:34 <Gs30ng> ok damn
14:51:36 <Gs30ng> what
14:51:41 <Gs30ng> puzzlet, what
14:52:23 <Gs30ng> i'm waiting for what you say
14:52:52 <puzzlet> you are on the way to destruction
14:53:50 <Gs30ng> dude, that's way out of fashion
14:54:33 <puzzlet> jal-jara jal-jajira
14:54:48 <puzzlet> ok forget it
14:55:01 <Gs30ng> yeap forget it
14:55:19 <Gs30ng> i've got some questions about the language... Brainhype.
14:56:39 <Gs30ng> Can anybody explain me what {...} instruction does? Description on wiki is kinda hard to understand... Maybe because of my humble English
14:57:00 <puzzlet> gimme the url and i'll explain that
14:57:27 <Gs30ng> thx it's here http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainhype
14:58:21 <puzzlet> i don't understand it either
14:58:34 <puzzlet> why are the citrus placed there anyway
14:59:00 <Gs30ng> agree
14:59:14 <Gs30ng> i mean i don't know why either
15:02:40 <Gs30ng> but anyway i like them
15:03:48 <Gs30ng> they matches on the wiki... with numerical expressions, with program codes, i think
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15:37:47 <ihope> What paradigm should our Esoteric Operating System be?
15:37:54 <ihope> ...written in?
15:38:14 <jix> linguine!
15:38:19 <Gs30ng> functional
15:38:25 <jix> oh i thought language...
15:38:30 <ihope> How about imperative, a la Haskell?
15:38:52 <Gs30ng> haskell is a stack-based imperative language
15:39:06 <jix> haskell isn't stack based
15:39:09 <jix> and haskell is functinal
15:39:23 <ihope> Haskell's do notation looks imperative :-)
15:39:24 <Gs30ng> stack-based imperative = functional
15:39:28 <Gs30ng> listen
15:39:38 <Gs30ng> a haskell code
15:39:41 <Gs30ng> (+) 1 2
15:39:50 <Gs30ng> this represents 3
15:39:55 <jix> applies 1 to + and 2 to 1 applied to +
15:40:09 <Gs30ng> now a stack-based imperative language
15:40:12 <jix> but thats just standard lamda calculus notation nothing stack based
15:40:28 <Gs30ng> 1 pushes 1 to the top of stack
15:40:28 <ihope> jix:It applies (+) to 1 and then to 2.
15:40:32 <jix> it's the same as (((+) 1) 2)
15:40:34 <Gs30ng> 2 pushes 2 to the top of stack
15:40:41 <jix> NONONO!
15:40:53 <Gs30ng> + adds top two values
15:41:04 <jix> it's interpreted as (((+) 1 ) 2)
15:41:06 <ihope> And what about all those piles of syntactic sugar?
15:41:14 <Gs30ng> then a code 1 2 +
15:41:21 <Gs30ng> is a reversed haskell code.
15:41:47 <jix> Gs30ng: haskell uses currifizing arguments that's why it looks like stack based but it isn't
15:41:59 <Gs30ng> jix: that's the point
15:42:09 <jix> it FIRST does ((+) 1) ... resulting in another function
15:42:18 <Gs30ng> curry style is kinda stack-based imperative
15:42:20 <ihope> Infix operators! Hoes do those work?
15:42:20 <jix> than it does (this_function 2)
15:42:29 <jix> ihope: syntactic sugar
15:42:43 <ihope> Heh...
15:43:15 <Gs30ng> jix: well i was just kidding... but aren't they similar?
15:43:26 <ihope> Yes.
15:43:38 <Gs30ng> stack-based imperative one could be reversed-curry style functional one.
15:43:46 <jix> Gs30ng: take a look at imperative_programming on wikipedia
15:43:58 <jix> the 2nd paragraph says it's different from functional languages like haskell
15:44:11 <Gs30ng> well most of imperative ones are
15:44:17 <jix> In computer science, imperative programming, as opposed to declarative programming, is a programming paradigm that describes computation in terms of a program state and statements that change the program state. 
15:44:21 <Gs30ng> but 1-stack based imperative ones aren't
15:44:26 <jix> in functional languages there is no local state!
15:44:34 <jix> and imperative languages only modify the local state...
15:44:40 <jix> so they are different from ground on
15:44:43 <Gs30ng> i know i know
15:45:52 <ihope> How about using Enigma as a platform for our operating system? It's a good virtual machine.
15:46:06 <Gs30ng> but whatever the structure and kernal way it has, apparently 1-stack-based imperative one and functional one are similar
15:46:19 <jix> Gs30ng: they arn't similar
15:46:36 <ihope> They are somewhat similar.
15:46:37 <jix> they look a bit similar but they are completely different
15:46:43 <ihope> Think 0x29A.
15:46:48 <Gs30ng> we can see the stack itself as an argument of function
15:48:07 <jix> of course you can try to combine them but then it's neither functional nor imperative programming...
15:48:27 <jix> in functional programming there is no evaluation order.. (that's why haskell uses monads)
15:49:15 <ihope> No defined evaluation order...
15:49:42 <jix> well our computer forces the interpreter to do some evaluation order... 
15:50:08 <ihope> Indeed, there has to be some evaluation :-)
15:50:09 <jix> but super parallel computers could evaluate everything at one time... the language doesn't care
15:50:54 <ihope> Heh, right.
15:51:36 <Gs30ng> well, without any care of classes, monads, defining functions... state a language with reversed order of haskell
15:51:52 <ihope> Reversed order?
15:51:56 <Gs30ng> then 1 2 (+) represents 3
15:52:20 <ihope> Postfix notation?
15:52:30 <Gs30ng> and now state a stack based imperative one, 1 pushes 1, 2 pushes 2, + adds top two element...
15:52:35 <jix> take lazy-k with reversed source...
15:52:42 <Gs30ng> then 1 2 + is now 3
15:52:49 <ihope> Hmm...
15:52:53 <jix> and add macros for curch numerals and things...
15:53:00 <ihope> And what happens when you add all that "tricky" stuff?
15:53:11 <Gs30ng> they look really similar
15:53:24 <Gs30ng> ihope, excuse me but what do you mean
15:53:26 <jix> let's make it pure functional (like lazy k)
15:53:39 <jix> but change the syntax so that it is possible to program in
15:53:54 <ihope> Lazy K's possible. Very possible.
15:53:56 <jix> (macros etc but no recursive macro expansion)
15:54:07 <jix> ihope: you program in lazy k without tools?
15:54:15 <ihope> Yes.
15:54:22 <jix> yeah ok it is possible
15:54:40 <jix> it is possible to write subskin too so well i guess lazyk too
15:54:55 <jix> bbl
15:55:25 <ihope> But I'd like to make it so Lazy K's programs are compatible with Haskell's IO types.
15:55:55 <Gs30ng> well, i've been thinking about 2-dimensional functional one
15:56:21 <ihope> Me too, but not very long...
15:56:55 <Gs30ng> i've found a way reducing all <>^v 
15:57:29 <ihope> I know the apply operator could be replaced with substituted function composition.
15:57:51 <Gs30ng> i don't think they are needed for functional one, since they controls the flow
15:58:14 <Gs30ng> 2-dimensional flow control is kinda... it seems it's only important for procedural ones
15:58:22 <ihope> Aye.
16:04:10 <ihope> Hey: what if the language itself evolved along with the evaluation?
16:20:27 <ihope> A program in that language would have to have an interpreter for that program before it.
16:20:44 <ihope> And the interpreter would have to have an interpreter, etc...
16:33:19 <ihope> data Maybe Maybe a = Just Just a | Just Nothing | Nothing
16:33:33 <jix> back
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16:53:17 <Robdgreat> hasta
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19:47:05 <calamari> hi
19:48:05 <calamari> jix: 1[0^]2
19:48:05 <calamari> 2[1=*0,0>1,1|1,1|*1,1<1:3,1#]2
19:48:05 <calamari> 3[3=9223372036854781733,2=*3,2|*0,0|*2,2|*3,0|*2,1#]2
19:49:03 <calamari> method was from this page: http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/xor_function.html
19:50:40 <jix> hehe cool
20:05:08 <calamari> all the new stuff has been uploaded
20:05:23 <calamari> you probably have all of it tho
20:07:19 <calamari> jix: how is your bf text gen going?
20:08:29 <jix> i have one lhs working
20:08:34 <jix> but it isn't really efficient...
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23:57:51 <Sgep> wownochat