00:09:56 -!- lindi- has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:15:32 -!- GregorR_ has joined. 00:32:38 -!- lindi- has joined. 00:45:00 So I have AltGr AND dead keys? 00:45:09 I only need one! 00:45:40 ...or the other! 01:10:05 -!- GregorR__ has quit (SendQ exceeded). 01:10:45 My technique for learning Haskell was a sort of Esme Wetherwax technique... 01:11:01 I read every Haskel tutorial I could find for info. 01:11:31 Then I started hacking. 01:11:45 Using the ghc library docs page. 01:12:39 The trick with monads is to read tutorials, look at the types, try to write something, look at the types, keep trying to push the concepts into your head so they all stay in at once, look at the types, etc... 01:13:11 When learning monads, you go through 3 stages. 01:13:56 1. "Dang, monads are complex." 2. "Oh, I get it now!" 01:14:23 First everything is very simple. A monad is a type of kind * -> * which implements the >>= and return functions with the right properties... 01:15:42 Next, everything is very complicated, trying to fit [], Maybe, State Int, IO, etc all into the same mental category, trying to work out which operations can be performeda and which can't. 01:16:00 Finally, everything is very simple. A monad is a type of kind * -> * which implements the >>= and return functions with the right properties. 01:16:15 Um. 01:16:22 But you understand it. 01:16:47 StateT rocks! 01:17:03 A monad is a magic container for values such that you can put a value into the container, you can stick a function through the container to act on its contained values, and you can turn a container of containers into a container. 01:17:05 StateT :: * -> (* -> *) -> * 01:17:12 kinda 01:17:24 but it's also a way of sequentialising actions. 01:17:50 I've never thought of it as anything but a container. 01:17:50 Monads were added to Haskell for the express purpose of creating the IO monad. 01:18:02 Well, I must disappear now. 01:18:17 * ihope disppears 01:18:24 ...Close enough. 01:18:25 before that, there was some godawful Lazy-K-like thing called a dialogue. 01:35:39 What was the dialogue things? 01:35:43 s/things/thing/ 01:35:58 Like in Lazy-K (the esolang). 01:36:13 something about [String]->[String] 01:36:24 Aha. 01:36:37 An awful system, compared to monadic IO. 01:36:40 Yep. 01:37:18 Actually, in ghc there is a RealWorld type, like that in, erm, Clean. 01:37:56 It is related to the ST monad, and unsafeIOtoST, or whatever it's called. 01:38:32 data RealWorld -- 01:38:36 Not very helpful. 01:44:23 -!- calamari has joined. 02:10:31 -!- CXI has quit (Connection timed out). 02:23:46 -!- ihope has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]"). 02:58:20 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:23:23 -!- Sgeo has quit. 05:46:44 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:14:03 -!- Arrogant has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:14:05 -!- lament_ has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:15:11 -!- Arrogant has joined. 06:15:11 -!- lament_ has joined. 06:57:08 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 10:04:36 -!- nooga has joined. 10:04:43 hi 11:07:03 -!- kipple has joined. 11:11:41 hi kipple 11:19:12 hello 11:20:10 :D<-< 0000 11:20:24 valid SADOL code ;p 12:33:59 -!- jix has joined. 12:38:04 hi jix 12:40:20 moin nooga 13:14:58 * SimonRC has to go to a lecture. 14:25:32 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 14:25:47 -!- jix has joined. 14:34:23 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 15:10:09 -!- nooga has quit. 15:24:18 -!- CXI has joined. 15:40:57 hi people 16:42:43 -!- ihope has joined. 18:13:02 -!- twobitsprite has left (?). 18:23:01 -!- jix has joined. 18:53:06 -!- fizzie has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:54:04 -!- fizzie has joined. 18:54:20 -!- fizzie has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:55:54 -!- fizzie has joined. 19:00:06 What are møøse? 19:06:20 -!- fizzie has quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:06:31 -!- fizzie has joined. 19:13:04 -!- GregorR__ has joined. 19:25:03 -!- GregorR__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:25:14 -!- GregorR__ has joined. 19:26:13 -!- GregorR__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:27:02 -!- GregorR__ has joined. 19:43:01 -!- fuse has joined. 19:43:06 hi 19:43:09 Ello. 19:43:28 what's going on? 19:55:34 -!- GregorR__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:59:10 GregorR's popping in and out. 19:59:23 All three of him. 20:00:02 did you already program in some imperative language before learning haskell? 20:00:22 Sort of. 20:00:38 how was the transition? 20:01:02 Well, once you learn functional programming in general, Haskell's a piece of cake. 20:01:16 As long as you have a good tutorial, that is... 20:01:38 ok. i think i mentioned i'm currently trying to learn scheme. the problem is, i don't yet see myself using it in a non-toy project. 20:01:56 and i heard many times how it's supposed to make you more productive etc etc. 20:02:02 Well, choose a project. 20:02:18 If Scheme's good for it, stay with it. Otherwise, find some other language. 20:02:40 and i think i'm at a point where i grok the basic idea. 20:03:07 ah well. i shall persevere. 20:38:25 -!- GregorR has quit (SendQ exceeded). 20:38:50 SendQ exceeded? 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