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00:19:58 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
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05:57:21 <Arrogant> If anyone can find a more beautiful fibonacci number function than Synesthesia's, I'll give them an e-cookie.
05:57:23 <Arrogant> {fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}*>*[-<+>]<|))}
06:01:18 <GregorR> !glass {M[m(_d)(Debug)!"Fib""fib"(_d)(fc).?]}
06:01:18 <EgoBot> (_a)A!(_f)F!(_o)O!(_m)1=,(_n)<1>=(_nlm)<1>=/(_nlm)(_n)*(_f)f.?(_o)(on).?" "(_o)o.?(_n)(_n)*<1>(_a)a.?=(_nlm)(_n)*(_m)*(_a)(le).?=\
06:01:19 <Arrogant> We're going to have to have a language war.
06:01:27 <GregorR> http://www.befunge.org/fyb/fyb/
06:01:38 <GregorR> Or http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/FukYorBrane
06:01:56 <Arrogant> Okay, not fyb. Though it's cool.
06:02:49 <Arrogant> Possibly the coolest esolang concept ever
06:03:28 <GregorR> Then why don't you beat logicex-2 :)
06:05:24 <Arrogant> Of course, Glass' interpreter is probably in C++ isn't it?
06:06:57 <Arrogant> I'm not hardcore enough for that :)
06:07:36 <Arrogant> One of these days I'm going to learn Haskell and implement something in that.
06:07:51 <Arrogant> I heard Haskell is good at parsing.
06:08:14 <GregorR> Yeah ... and painful at almost anything else ^^
06:10:03 <Arrogant> Pyparsing made writing Synesthesia's interpreter so easy anyone could've done it.
06:11:23 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/738699
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06:29:16 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/738699
06:31:51 <rabidpoobear> what does the "class classname (something):" something part do?
06:32:06 <Arrogant> ... I thought you wrote in Python
06:32:23 <GregorR> <rabidpoobear> So did I :(
06:32:41 <Arrogant> Python is an object oriented language, that's for defining classes
06:33:15 <rabidpoobear> i know how to define classes... i meant what is the stuff in parenthesis doing? I always do "class TestClass:" and that's it
06:34:13 <Arrogant> (object) is how you create "new-style" classes
06:34:25 <Arrogant> It's the prefered way to create classes now.
06:35:26 <Arrogant> Lets you use property, staticmethod, and classmethod
06:38:16 <Arrogant> Of course you like magic, you wouldn't be in here otherwise.
06:39:51 <Arrogant> {fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}*>*[-<+>]<|))}
06:39:59 <Arrogant> I'm trying to work out some other stuff.
06:40:21 <GregorR> Now you just need Ackethesia, for .ack files X-P
06:41:45 <rabidpoobear> I have to wake up in 6 hrs so I'm going to sleep in a little bit once I test your interpreter
06:43:28 <rabidpoobear> so your interpreter can be run with either "interpretername foo.syn" or "interpretername - programtext"?
06:43:41 <Arrogant> That was really just for testing it
06:43:50 <Arrogant> I'll probably think up something more ... usual for later.
06:45:24 <Arrogant> I didn't want to mess with the instream
06:45:26 * rabidpoobear waits for sourceforge page to load so he can download PyParsing
06:47:12 <Arrogant> Like see, in front of me iis Metroid Zero Mission.
06:48:24 <Arrogant> GregorR, I must admit Glass is pretty genius.
06:49:41 <Arrogant> what version of Python do you have?
06:50:08 <GregorR> rabidpoobear: Out of curiousity, what did this observation, "Gregor works for Intel," have to do with anything?
06:51:04 <Arrogant> He was wondering if I were a professional programmer
06:51:15 <rabidpoobear> arrogant do i need an older version of python?
06:51:30 <rabidpoobear> yeah, the installer just didn't work, i remember now.
06:51:32 <Arrogant> I was hoping you were outdated or something
06:51:46 <GregorR> Incidentally, Intel's new logo and slogan are awful ^^
06:52:44 <GregorR> With the font that's sans-everything.
06:52:55 <GregorR> Sans-detail, sans-readability, sans-aesthetics.
06:54:09 <Arrogant> They should make more processors named after vegetables.
06:54:26 <Arrogant> And then JCPenney can sue them.
06:55:58 <rabidpoobear> urm, arrogant, I have to admit I've never installed a python package from source... I just unzip it into the /python24/lib/site-packages/pyparsing-1.4.2 folder?
06:56:56 <Arrogant> unzip it and run "setup.py install"
06:57:01 <Arrogant> It'll put itself in the right spot
06:58:42 <Arrogant> I should learn how to write a recursive decent parser
06:59:14 <Arrogant> At the moment the only language I can write one in is Python. And that's because of pyparsing.
06:59:31 <rabidpoobear> what is {fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}*>*[-<+>]<|))} supposed to do?
06:59:51 <Arrogant> You'll have to put a number on the stack and call it first
07:00:14 <Arrogant> try {fibo:(n(n*(f|=)-(f+|=)-(f+|=)++-|{fibo}-|{fibo}*>*[-<+>]<|))}++++++++++|{fibo}*!
07:00:24 <Arrogant> That'll stick 10 on the stack, call it, pop, and output.
07:01:11 <Arrogant> The 10th number in the fibonacci sequence is 55.
07:02:25 <Arrogant> Would we have it any other way?
07:02:28 <GregorR> Without having read anything about it, I must suspect it's just ripped off from Glass ;)
07:03:07 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/736571 Read the spec.
07:04:14 <GregorR> Oh, OK, I gets it, it's sort of like Brainfuck with scopes/functions/et cetera?
07:04:47 <GregorR> Erm, right, a global stack.
07:05:40 <Arrogant> And they're not really functions
07:06:11 <GregorR> Well, there's a global stack.
07:06:18 <GregorR> Global stack = handy return values :P
07:09:37 <Arrogant> Technically, nothing is passed in, nothing is passed out.
07:10:22 <GregorR> Well, the same can be said of Glass :-P
07:14:24 <Arrogant> I think for a first language it's a fairly good job
07:14:56 <Arrogant> It also doesn't fail to confuse the fuck out of people
07:15:13 <Arrogant> So I think it succeeds one of the main goals of esoterica
07:15:31 <GregorR> Referring to Synesthesia, yes?
07:15:37 <GregorR> Yeah, it's pretty nice - I think it's a good implementation of Brainfuck + functions.
07:15:53 <GregorR> Now get Brainfuck + classes and I'll actually have some competition in the OOP-esoteric field.
07:16:38 <Arrogant> I'm working on a concept that wouldn't quite be classes but it would give you the neccesary functionality
07:17:05 <Arrogant> As in, static scopes with addresses that can be stored as pointers.
07:17:18 <Arrogant> Something similar to Synesthesia in a few ways
07:17:23 <Arrogant> But drastically different in others
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08:48:58 <SimonRC> !!!!! http://thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/74461/74568/ShowThread.aspx#74568
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09:43:15 <Arrogant> http://paragon.pastebin.com/738861 <- the newly formed language spec out of my over-tired brain
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13:25:06 * nooga is attempting to create very strict, simple and accurate spoken language ;p
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15:35:46 <ihope_> I had a bitmap file that was pretty much exactly 9 decimal megabytes.
15:36:02 <ihope_> I turned it into a PNG, and now it's about 480 decimal kilobytes.
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15:57:51 <ihope_> Bah, tinypic shrunk my picture.
15:58:15 <ihope_> It's one of the results of running one cellular automaton I made for a longish time: http://i4.tinypic.com/10qcsih.png
16:00:14 <ihope_> Ah. And here's one chunk of it in its full glory: http://i4.tinypic.com/10qcuu1.png
16:03:53 <ihope_> And an even smaller piece: http://i4.tinypic.com/10qcvgi.png
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16:58:43 <SimonRC> It looks like M:??78/1??? or something along those lines
17:00:47 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
17:00:49 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:01:11 <EgoBot> 104 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++++.>+++.<<.+++.------.--------.>+. [193]
17:01:13 <ihope_> It's C4,NN,S3aba3ba6ba,B3aba3ba7b, if that makes any sense.
17:01:41 * SimonRC was using the format used by Life32, etc
17:01:43 <ihope_> It's the one used my Mirek's Cellebration.
17:02:29 <ihope_> It's a Von Neumann, or however that's spelled.
17:03:01 <ihope_> Survival's on 2 or 3 neighbors, and birth is on 2, 3, or 4.
17:03:31 <ihope_> Also, it's a generations thing, so when an "alive" cell dies, it turns into "dead", then "long dead", before disappearing.
17:03:37 -!- tgwizard has joined.
17:03:42 <ihope_> Then it behaves as a normal empty cell.
17:04:12 <SimonRC> v = von neumann, 23 = survival, 234 = birth
17:04:37 <SimonRC> ah, that ruel doesn't specify the long death thing, though
17:04:45 * SimonRC nicks the image for his wallpaper :-)
17:05:00 <ihope_> V:23/234/4, or something like that.
17:05:10 <ihope_> Life32 doesn't seem to support generations rules.
17:06:00 <ihope_> And that's why I prefer MCell.
17:06:15 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
17:06:16 <SimonRC> I suspect Life32 is faster, though
17:06:17 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
17:06:49 <GregorR-W> My connection is clearly still up, but I can't get an inbound connection.
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17:21:12 <SimonRC> GregorR-W: put EgoBot onto #brainfuck, will you?
17:21:41 <GregorR-W> It'd be easier if I could ssh into my home computer, but what I can do is:
17:21:46 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.).
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17:22:12 -!- GregorR has changed nick to GregorR-W.
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17:22:37 <GregorR-W> See how trixy and fast that was :)
17:22:41 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:23:03 <GregorR-W> But I stole the nick in less time than it took for my alter ego to reconnect.
17:24:16 <SimonRC> !bf [-]++++++++++[->++++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<<]>++++>+>-->-->+>[-][<]>[.>]<[<]
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17:26:59 <SimonRC> GregorR-W: are you still not able to get into your home machine?
17:27:15 <GregorR-W> I may have just forgetten -R2234:localhost:22
17:27:18 <SimonRC> You should put a gaping security hole into EgoBot in case this happens again.
17:27:50 <SimonRC> BTW, did you see the trailer for Titanic 2?
17:28:12 <GregorR-W> Oh god please tell me there's no Titanic 2 ...
17:28:25 <SimonRC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD4OnHCRd_4
17:29:13 <GregorR-W> Not only speaker-free, sound-card-free.
17:29:35 <SimonRC> summary: Jack (LdC) is found in the current day in a block of solid ice on the seabed...
17:30:17 <SimonRC> He is thawed out, put in a military lab, escapes, and has to come to terms with the fact that everyone he ever knew is dead.
17:31:28 <SimonRC> made of bits of other movies spiced together, with maybe a tiny bit of new footage, a little bad dubbing, and small amount of CG.
17:33:05 <SimonRC> I dunno where they got the block-of-ice shots from.
17:34:05 <SimonRC> ah, wait, I think that's from a movie where the thing in the block is actually an alien
17:50:39 <SimonRC> Y'know how hand-coded assembley programs tend to be faster even than C...
17:51:43 <SimonRC> Well, I suspect that hand-coded brainfuck must be far better than anything a compiler can produce, simply because you write programs in a different way in BF.
17:52:00 <SimonRC> You don't think in terms of if-else, or variables.
17:52:06 <GregorR-W> I guarantee you with 100% certainty that that's true.
17:52:13 <SimonRC> You think in terms of the tape, and []
17:52:37 <ihope_> But there's still some overhead.
17:52:48 <ihope_> Or whatever that's called.
17:53:11 <SimonRC> Compilers are better at compiling than humans could be, but humans are better than that if hey program directly in the target language.
17:53:30 <ihope_> But BF isn't the target language.
17:53:57 <ihope_> And it disallows access to plenty of CPU features.
17:58:36 <jix> gcc inline assembly is bad...
17:59:22 <jix> it screws up gcc's register allocation...
17:59:39 <jix> well maybe that doesn't matter on x86 where you don't have a lot of registers
18:00:17 <jix> but it does matter on ARM or PPC... ldr r4, =bla ; mov r0,r4 and not using r4 anymore hurts...
18:05:27 <ihope_> Oh, SimonRC: want a "rectangles" thing that wraps around properly?
18:06:31 <ihope_> One that you could use as a tiled wallpaper.
18:06:37 <ihope_> Without it looking weird.
18:06:50 <SimonRC> I can;t actually set wallpaper
18:07:15 <SimonRC> At Uni it's disallowed, and at home I run ratpoison.
18:16:28 <ihope_> Woot, rundll stopped working and now I can't terminate it.
18:16:59 * ihope_ wishes the "End Process" button on the Windows Task Manager were more effective.
18:17:00 <SimonRC> you need that kit that gives you more-powerful system commands
18:17:20 <ihope_> What I need is Linux! :-)
18:18:15 <ihope_> Okay. rundll didn't crash AGAIN, did it?
18:18:33 <kipple> I think there is a registry setting you can use to reduce the timeout when ending prog
18:24:45 <jix> you need osx...
18:29:49 <SimonRC> heh: http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=114661685225ft0stealthfighter3.jpg
18:30:02 <SimonRC> the great stuff people get up to at military bases
18:33:15 <ihope_> What's the shortest BF program that is itself Turing-complete?
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18:36:04 <ihope_> Programs can have computational classes too, can't they?
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19:27:50 <ihope_> But programs can compute.
19:28:04 <SimonRC> you can abuse programs to get them to do computation.
19:28:05 <ihope_> Shouldn't something that can compute have a computational class?
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19:28:51 <SimonRC> The normal view is that a PC is like a computational class, and a program is a Automaton of that computational class.
19:28:52 <GregorR-W> Well, OK, yes, if it does computation then it has a computation class.
19:29:07 <GregorR-W> But then it's an interpreter, and what really has the computation class is the language you interpret.
19:29:41 <SimonRC> however, a language (interpreter) could be like a computational class, and the programs it interpret would be automata
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19:45:31 * ihope wishes there were a highest computational class
19:45:55 <ihope> That wish is sorta unlikely to come true.
19:46:03 <GregorR-W> No computing class has been found which is higher than TC
19:46:10 <GregorR-W> So, ATM, that's the highest computing class :P
19:46:34 <ihope> They've been found, but never implemented.
19:46:56 <ihope> Brainhype programs can be in a class higher than TC.
19:47:31 <ihope> And a Brainhype interpreter is, oddly enough, in a higher computational class than any Brainhype program can be.
19:53:07 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
19:53:09 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
19:53:13 <ihope> !bf_txtgen http://www.google.com/search?q=
19:55:23 <EgoBot> 2783 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++++++>++++>+++++<<<<-]>>>>----------.<<<++.>.<+++++.-.>>>++.--.<++++++++++++++++.---.>+++++.<-.>---.--.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>----------------------------.<<<+++.>.>+++++++++++++++++++.<----.>>+++++++++++++.<<<---.>+.++++.<++++.>>++.>++++++++++++++++.---------------------------.<
19:55:59 <jix> !rhotor <x/%"http://www.google.com/search?q=">
19:56:03 <EgoBot> http://www.google.com/search?q
19:56:28 <GregorR-W> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"http://www.google.com/search?q="(_o)o.?]}
19:56:30 <jix> !rhotor <x/%"http://www.google.com/search?q=",x>
19:56:31 <EgoBot> http://www.google.com/search?q=
19:57:03 <EgoBot> http://www.google.com/search?q=test
19:57:14 <jix> oh it worked..
20:01:31 <EgoBot> To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
20:01:41 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
20:01:43 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
20:02:02 <ihope> Unlambda! What a great language@
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20:04:44 <GregorR-W> Named that so that it would sound like "EGO, BITCH!"
20:05:28 <ihope> I interpreted that as "BitchAnger"... aiee.
20:10:00 <ihope> Say, why don't you add a Minimum interpreter to EgoBot?
20:11:02 <GregorR-W> Isn't it not only worthless but unimplemented?
20:11:37 <ihope> main = getLine >> putStrLn "Syntax error"
20:11:41 <ihope> There's your implementation.
20:12:00 <jix> puts"Syntax error"
20:12:02 <jix> hah ruby is shorter!
20:12:31 <ihope> main=interact(const"error")
20:12:37 <ihope> Is Ruby shorter than that?
20:12:58 <ihope> Hey, might as well s/error/e/
20:13:17 <jix> isn't puts"Syntax error" shorter?
20:13:40 <ihope> Does that ask for a line of stuff, too?
20:13:55 <jix> gets;puts"Syntax error"
20:18:59 <ihope> Anyway, there's three implementations. Which one do you want?
20:25:14 <jix> gets;puts:Error
20:29:16 <ihope> Oh, a 12-character implementation: main=error""
20:29:47 <ihope> That just plain error-ifies, though.
20:30:48 <jix> that generates RuntimeError: <position of error>
20:31:27 <ihope> Okay, even "main=f" is longer than that.
20:38:58 <ihope> "TELL STORY!" "What kind of story?" "A real story." "About what?" "This." "Well, one morning..." "Tell me another."
21:07:51 <ihope> "Cielito lindo" = pretty little angel?
22:05:11 -!- ihope has quit (SendQ exceeded).
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22:16:02 <ihope> Note to self: do not eat peanut butter while chewing gum.
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22:26:18 * SimonRC is currently locked in a building.
22:27:12 <SimonRC> It's not that desparate a situation yet.
22:28:04 <ihope> Doesn't everybody use panic bars even when it's entirely unnecessary?
22:29:39 <SimonRC> I suspect I can arrange a calmer method to get out
22:29:59 <SimonRC> In fact, I am in a conversation which should lead to a conversations that gets me out.
22:30:25 * ihope thinks he and SimonRC have different ideas of what a panic bar is
22:32:42 <ihope> A panic bar is that bar on the inside of public doors that people always push when exiting.
22:34:50 <GregorR-W> Since when is that called a panic bar.
22:36:12 <ihope> What *is* it called, then?
22:36:52 <ihope> * SimonRC is currently locked in a building.
22:37:13 <ihope> Doesn't really work quite as well.
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