00:00:07 SimonRC: Timeless. 00:00:22 where? 00:00:28 ooh, midnight 00:01:19 (SimonRC) link to mouse game please 00:01:46 http://gamegarage.co.uk/play/mousegame/ 00:02:12 poiuy_qwert: why the colours? 00:02:19 ty for the link 00:02:29 grey+red on a black background looks really shite 00:02:38 looks fine to me 00:02:52 and its my nick completion script 00:03:00 use irssi 00:03:13 then you could change it to not look like that 00:03:19 poiuy_qwert: <-- thus 00:04:20 its my custom nick completer 00:04:25 and i have it set to what i like 00:04:26 ah, ok 00:04:43 what client are you using? 00:04:46 mIRC 00:04:58 but i also use urk 00:05:07 im guessing you use irssi 00:05:33 PRIVMSG poiuy_qwert :^AVERSION^A 00:05:38 * ihope feels l33t 00:06:29 :/ 00:07:40 -!- SimonRC has set topic: the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - wikis: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/ - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck. 00:08:47 Bzzt. Too long. You lose. 00:09:15 correct it then 00:09:21 Aren't they both the same wiki, anyway? 00:09:28 I thought not 00:09:55 they are 00:10:07 -!- ihope has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck. 00:10:20 ...And my chat client still doesn't like it. 00:10:42 heh 00:10:51 maybe they are the same 00:10:58 neither is responding to my web browsetr 00:11:06 :-) 00:11:35 !bf_txtgen #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - for brainfuck-specific discussion, go to ##brainfuck 00:11:54 ihope: why did you do that?! 00:12:14 Hmm? 00:12:41 * ihope waits 00:14:34 !ps 00:14:40 1 ihope: bf_txtgen 00:14:42 2 ihope: ps 00:16:13 hehehe 00:17:43 Now, while we're waiting... 00:17:50 !daemon pager bf +[,>,<[->++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<]>.<[-]+] 00:18:16 !pager %a A C T I O N t r i e s i t o u t%a 00:18:23 * EgoBot tries it out 00:18:26 Yes! 00:18:40 how does pager work? 00:19:12 Look at the source code! :-P 00:20:01 It doesn't seem to make much sense... 00:20:08 There are 32 plus signs, right? 00:20:14 in the long string of them 00:20:20 I think so. 00:20:52 !daemon P u t a s p a c e b e f o r e e a c h c h a r a c t e r ( t h e o n e a f t e r t h e w o r d " p a g e r " d o e s n ' t c o u n t ) , a n d p u t a s p a c e a t t h e e n d o f t h e l i n e . 00:20:54 so it takes in ab and outputs... a*32 + b 00:20:56 [$len(++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++)] == [32] (0ms) 00:20:57 Huh? 00:21:00 !pager P u t a s p a c e b e f o r e e a c h c h a r a c t e r ( t h e o n e a f t e r t h e w o r d " p a g e r " d o e s n ' t c o u n t ) , a n d p u t a s p a c e a t t h e e n d o f t h e l i n e . 00:21:07 SimonRC: yeah. 00:21:07 Put a space before each character (the one after the word "pager" doesn't count), and put a space at the end of the line. 00:21:11 Woot! 00:21:22 poiuy_qwert: what did you do there? 00:21:31 What is Pager for? 00:21:33 got the length of the string 00:21:47 its an eval script 00:21:49 [$me] == [poiuy_qwert] (0ms) 00:21:52 [$chan] == [#esoteric] (0ms) 00:21:59 And !daemon? 00:22:14 poiuy_qwert: are more client features 00:22:21 poiuy_qwert: ah, more client features 00:22:22 Sgeo: !pager is for making EgoBot use special characters, and !daemon is for adding commands to EgoBot. 00:22:27 (SimonRC) custom script 00:22:28 !daemon sgeo bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 00:22:33 !sgeo 00:22:34 00:22:44 !ps d 00:22:47 does irssi have scripting? 00:22:50 !ps 00:23:08 Did I just break something :( 00:23:10 !sgeo 00:23:29 ihope, pager is just a BF program you wrote? 00:23:38 Sgeo: yeah. 00:23:52 !pager ! 00:23:54 EgoBot is yours ihope? 00:24:03 poiuy_qwert: no, it's GregorR's. 00:24:05 And why does EgoBot look dead? 00:24:14 i see 00:27:54 GregorR: EGOBOT IS DEAD! COME AND FIX IT! 00:27:59 what language is EgoBot? 00:28:07 Java 00:28:10 oh 00:28:18 If I shout loud enough, he'll hear me 00:28:23 Isn't it C or C++? 00:28:25 poiuy_qwert: that was a joke, BTW 00:28:30 C++, IIRC 00:28:49 k 00:28:50 !ps 00:29:39 (Just because memory management is a boring, repetative error-prone task with well-understood algorithms to solve it doesn't meant a computer should do it.) 00:29:43 * SimonRC ducks 00:36:47 Arr 00:36:48 !help 00:37:05 Stop breaking things, jerks X-P 00:37:28 -!- EgoBot has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:37:43 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:37:43 -!- EgoBot has quit (Broken pipe). 00:37:51 >_O 00:38:01 Dobleve te efe again ... 00:38:06 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:38:06 -!- EgoBot has quit (Broken pipe). 00:38:10 . 00:38:28 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:38:28 -!- EgoBot has quit (Broken pipe). 00:38:47 -!- EgoBot has joined. 00:39:50 How did it break? 00:43:26 GregorR: could it have been "< Sgeo> !daemon sgeo bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++." 00:43:36 which is probably what Sgeo is worrying about 00:44:13 Sgeo: Was it spamming you? 00:44:26 no 00:44:32 Hm 00:44:37 Y'know, I don't know X-P 00:46:23 how is the box that it's running on? 00:52:17 There's a BF process taking all my CPU X-P 00:52:30 ah 00:52:44 I disabled the resource limitations again ... probably not a wise move :P 00:52:57 well, about 41 mins ago... 00:53:12 ... ihope stuck the topic through bf_txtgen 00:53:49 That'd be a java process 00:53:57 ah, yeah 00:54:08 then there was Sgeo's daemon 00:54:59 * Sgeo vaguely wonders how a simple program can cause problems 00:56:07 waitamo... 00:56:32 Say, GregorR, what actually *is* the daemon protocol. 00:56:52 It doesn't, by any chance, require the daemon to take input, does it? 00:56:54 It runs it IN A LOOP YOU FLEM 00:56:57 And yes, it does. 00:57:02 Sort of the point. 00:58:08 ah 00:58:11 oO 00:58:29 So a daemon that doesn't ever take input might break it? 00:58:42 It could. Don't you like how fragile it is? :P 00:58:59 such as "00:22 < Sgeo> !daemon sgeo bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++." 00:59:22 which incidently I quoted a few minutes ago and you ignored >:-( 00:59:41 * SimonRC realises thi is coming across a bit grumpy 01:02:26 No, I didn't ignore ... 01:02:28 *it 01:02:41 That's why I asked if it was spamming Sgeo. 01:02:47 I was sort of surprised that it wasn't. 01:03:03 !help 01:03:09 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 01:03:09 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 01:07:02 brb 01:07:20 Oh, by the way, is there some offline bf_txtgen somewhere? 01:08:51 ihope: Yeah, it's calamari's textgen.java. 01:10:10 http://www.esolangs.org/files/brainfuck/util/textgen.java 01:10:51 sceql? 01:14:18 * SimonRC learns about _Eragon_ -- the book writen by some kid, published by his parents, and in a superposition of "crap heap of clichés" and "work of a child prodigy". 01:14:29 Oh, and there's going to be a movie :-S 01:16:05 ihope: do you have a link for "Timeless"? 01:16:18 Nope. I haven't written a spec yet. 01:16:55 sigh 01:17:02 no wonder I can't find it 01:18:17 > is bind, < is return, eh? 01:18:31 Well, do you know how monads work? 01:18:39 yes 01:18:46 Great. 01:18:53 You'll know what bind and return are, then, right? 01:18:56 yes 01:19:01 >>= and return 01:19:31 Okay. Now, Timeless has the syntax of Unlambda, plus a few things. 01:19:55 It has all the primitives, except the output ones. 01:20:26 Now, ~ would have the type IO TimeVar, if it were a Haskell value. 01:20:42 It creates a new TimeVat. 01:20:47 s/Vat/Var/ 01:20:59 what's a TimeVat? 01:21:14 A TimeVar is a special variable. 01:21:48 = sets a TimeVar, so it'd have the type TimeVar -> Value -> IO (), where Value is just a normal value. 01:22:06 That is, Value is something. 01:22:23 ok 01:22:24 Oh, and TimeVars must be set exactly once. 01:22:43 : gets the value of a TimeVar: it'd be TimeVar -> IO Value. 01:23:41 Now, the reason that the language is called Timeless and the variables are TimeVars is that if the TimeVar hasn't been set yet, : gives you the value a TimeVar *will* be set to. 01:24:12 eh?! 01:24:12 Are there currently any RLE things for BF? 01:24:19 Because I have an idea in mind for oen 01:24:21 *oen 01:24:23 *one 01:24:35 Finally, ( is the TimeVar containing input, and ) is the TimeVar that will contain output. 01:24:43 erm 01:24:51 what if I try to send info back in time? 01:25:28 You can't send data into the past; you can only pull it out of the future. 01:26:05 hmm, ok 01:26:06 Sure, you get the grandfather paradox and every other paradox that comes with time travel, but hey, it's an esoteric language... 01:26:53 It's inspired by TwoDucks, by the way. 01:27:03 hmm ok 01:29:27 Now, to actually simulate a Timeless program, an interpreter needs to run through every possible thing a TimeVar might get set to in the future, then see whether it actually turns out to have that value or not. 01:30:01 Finally, you'll end up with a list of possible outputs. 01:30:54 I'll call the computational class required to do this TuringComplete+Halt(TuringComplete)+Enum(BethOne). 01:32:13 "Beth1"? 01:32:20 the letter after Alef? 01:32:46 Look up "Beth number" on Wikipedia. 01:33:03 Essentially, Beth(1) = 2^Aleph(0). 01:33:52 it used to be conjectured that Aleph1=Beth1... 01:34:02 that's called the, erm... 01:34:13 Continuum hypothesis? 01:35:08 yeah, that's it 01:37:23 Hmm, aleph(aleph(aleph(aleph(aleph(aleph(aleph(...))))))) 01:37:42 etc 01:38:53 That's a big number :-) 01:42:49 * Sgeo pokes at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF-RLE 01:43:54 Encode BF in BF! 01:45:15 Can I add a note to the article stating that it has nothing to do with BF-PDA and BF-SC? :-) 01:45:21 yes 01:45:28 whynot? 01:48:25 Does anyone find this chapter slightly surreal? http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/curriculum-Z-H-44.html 01:49:57 "Understanding the true nature of assignments is difficult." ... "Unless the programmer carefully plans the arrangement of assignments, [mutating values] may be fatal." 01:50:39 Do you think they are trying to promote functional programing? :-) 02:10:01 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 02:10:32 hi 02:10:35 * SimonRC goes to bed 02:15:22 g'night 02:28:05 "FREE PANCAKES! NO STRINGS ATTACHED!" 02:28:12 -!- calamari has joined. 02:28:17 That's good. I don't like strings attached to my pancakes. 02:30:09 Where would they go? 02:30:27 Right through the center, I imagine. 02:30:57 Poke a needle through a stack of pancakes, then tie a knot at each end. 02:31:11 That way, your pancakes won't fall apart on you. 02:31:35 My pancakes don't normally fall apart.. 02:35:49 Hey, ihope, what do you think about Spore? 02:35:58 It looks cool. 02:36:30 I doubt it will be "OMG THE BEST GAME EVAR!!!@!!!!1!!!!!1!1" that many fans think it will be, but I think it will be pretty durn good. 02:36:50 That's about where I sit too. 02:37:24 Im looking forward to playing it, but Im not sure it has as much to offer people as they think it does 02:37:36 where I sit: doing google search to know what game you're talking about ;) 02:37:42 the mechanics of the game feel pretty simplistic at this point, but it may be because I don't know enough about it. 02:37:47 On some Spore wiki or another, there's a description of a creature that's pretty elaborate. 02:37:51 lol, there ya go calamari 02:38:34 Somehow I don't think the creature editor will allow you to specify that your creatures will use special arms to inject venom into their victims. 02:38:56 Lemme see here... 02:39:28 http://www.sporewiki.com/Cavewalker_%28Concept%29 02:39:44 neat 02:40:04 I like the malloon 02:40:08 http://www.sporewiki.com/Malloon_%28Concept%29 02:40:11 * ihope would love to see Will Wright as a Spore creature 02:41:53 Ah, yes. I'm not sure if bubble feet will be in Spore either. 02:43:07 probably not ihope 02:43:10 Its a shame too 02:43:57 Heh. "Um, my bad. I sort of bombed the Greevil's main city." 02:44:21 lol, yeah 02:44:43 I know I'll go through a pretty severe sadistic phase for a while though 02:47:29 I'd love to just sit back and watch the creature phase. 02:48:03 You know. Get through the tidepool phase, and then... yeah. Watch. 02:50:48 Now, I don't think I'll actually buy Spore until the system requirements looked silly. 02:51:11 Like "384MHz processor and 32MB of RAM" would look today. 02:51:16 Im not sure how high they'll be initially. 02:51:30 Simcity 4 is fun now that my computer can run it ;-) 02:52:32 Then once I do buy Spore, I'll make an ISO out of each disk and store a copy of each on each hard drive, and burn each one to an extra CD for good measure. 02:52:49 Wait... do EULA's generally allow for only one backup copy? 02:52:58 Well, who's gonna find out? :-P 02:53:39 Well, after that, I'd spread the serial code thingy all over the place, so I can't lose that either. 02:54:22 That's all because I've had bad experiences in the past with losing disks and such, as well as with software just flat out not working. 02:54:55 lol 02:55:54 Oh, by the way, the Spore background music will probably be dynamically generated, right? 02:57:41 it *should* be, but who knows 02:59:14 Oh, sheesh, Spore videos are all over the place! 03:02:51 yeah, the game is a meme right now 03:09:25 -!- ihope has quit ("Bedtime!"). 03:23:46 -!- coder_ has joined. 04:09:04 -!- wildhalcyon has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.3/2006042618]"). 04:23:05 -!- coder_ has changed nick to BALLS. 04:23:14 -!- BALLS has changed nick to BALLS_. 04:37:09 -!- Arrogant has joined. 04:39:30 Hello people 04:39:42 'lo 04:44:33 Hi BALLS_ :P 04:44:41 ;P 04:46:38 I want some Bawls. 04:46:49 GregorR, Rack is OO. 04:46:50 from ThinkGeek 04:47:02 At least, it will be once I make sure everything works. 04:47:19 BALLS_, probably not. I would rather buy it at a grocery store 04:47:22 Much more convenient. 04:47:24 Plus I work in one. 04:48:00 So, why is that "you win?" 04:49:34 'cause I said. 04:50:15 If you don't like it, I don't care :( 04:55:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:01:19 INCONCIEVABLE! 05:02:08 lol 05:02:17 I'd say Iw in because I did first ;) 05:02:21 INCONCIEVABLE! 05:09:45 -!- BALLS_ has changed nick to coder_. 05:10:31 Perhaps 05:11:55 But really 05:11:58 When you think about it 05:12:08 My language is the reason you created yours, retroactively. 05:39:43 lol 05:42:44 -!- calamari_ has joined. 05:42:52 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:52:03 -!- coder_ has quit ("Leaving"). 06:47:32 -!- khaladan has joined. 06:50:02 GregorR, not that you'll understand what's going on really, but I'll give you a snippet of OO in Rack 06:50:18 http://paragon.pastebin.com/746217 06:51:07 Arrogant: Looks like just a ripoff of Glass *shrugs* 06:51:08 ;) 06:51:31 Yeah of course ;) 06:51:40 Trust me though, it's different 06:56:06 The language is based around scope and stack manipulation 06:58:12 Basically, each scope has its own subroutines and a memory tape. And each subroutine has a scope. 06:59:13 Each scope has an address that can be used to execute code within it 06:59:35 Wrapping code in () causes it to pop the stack and look up the scope with that address, then execute that code within it 06:59:53 Oh kay, oh kay ... 07:00:48 Also, a subroutine runs code in its own scope. 07:02:06 $ grabs the address for the current scope, c grabs the address for the calling scope, ^ grabs the address for the parent scope. ! creates a new scope and pushes the address for it. 1 clones the current scope. 07:02:23 1 is what allows you to create "classes" 07:02:34 It's much more like prototyping. 07:03:46 So... {a:$} causes a to act kinda like a variable. {a} would return its scope address, so {a}(code) executes 'code' in 'a' 07:04:07 I thought it was pretty good, anyway :/ 07:33:44 * Arrogant is unwanted and probably should go jump into the Mediterranean Sea, but can't get there so the river will have to suffice 07:34:24 -!- Arrogant has quit (""Goodbye, cruel world."s[&:.s]"). 07:44:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:25 -!- jix has joined. 08:01:47 -!- rabidpoobear has joined. 08:47:26 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:50:36 -!- rabidpoobear has quit. 08:54:06 -!- rabidpoobear has joined. 08:55:00 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:20:19 -!- calamari_ has quit ("Leaving"). 09:30:08 -!- kipple has joined. 10:09:59 -!- rabidpoobear has left (?). 13:06:35 -!- nooga has joined. 13:06:54 hi 13:24:31 moin 13:26:05 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 14:00:00 hehe 14:00:09 i have mede sme photos 14:00:11 some 15:11:45 -!- nooga has quit. 15:13:36 -!- Robdgreat has quit ("I'd rather have this bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."). 16:44:21 -!- khaladan has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:32:57 -!- poiuy_qwert` has joined. 17:39:58 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:41:49 -!- poiuy_qwert` has quit. 18:42:56 -!- calamari has joined. 18:55:58 -!- GregorR has joined. 18:57:49 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:06:48 hi 19:11:51 moin 19:18:46 I repeat, Wikipedia is not just an encyclopedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_by_gory_death_scene 19:19:15 :-D 19:24:02 bbl 19:24:04 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 19:30:52 -!- fizzie has quit ("Hardware altercations."). 20:08:34 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 20:08:41 !help 20:08:48 Yeah, I thought so. 20:08:56 My system is still hammered 8-X 20:26:12 -!- ihope has joined. 20:37:37 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 20:37:39 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 20:37:43 Woah! 20:37:48 Did it finish?! 20:43:07 -!- rabidpoobear has joined. 20:49:47 hi 20:50:46 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 20:50:56 hi (2) 20:51:37 hi 20:55:04 hi 20:55:18 !help 20:55:21 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 20:55:23 1l 2l adjust axo befunge bch bf{8,[16],32,64} fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 20:59:00 hi 20:59:34 * SimonRC discovers a great example of computer mathematic not matching real maths... 20:59:38 "< sjanssen_> ha, what's worse about the Real class is that it's only method is toRational" 21:00:06 (#haskell) 21:00:29 so, the only unique thing about real numbers is that you can turn them into rational numbers. :-S :-Z :-S 21:08:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:19:30 "Professor Albus Percivial Wulfric Brian Dumbledore's Army" is a long name. 21:20:42 That's probably because "Professor Albus Percivial Wulfric Brian Dumbledore" is a long name. 21:21:35 PAPWBDA 21:22:22 Everybody calls it "D.A.", though. 21:23:10 thats because its just "Dumbledore's Army" 21:23:22 i dunno where you got the long version 21:24:34 Wikipedia. 21:24:50 i see 21:25:21 well they allways used just "Dumbledore's Army" in the book 21:25:49 anyone know a good programming text editor, something like Notepad++ but... better and less buggy...? 21:26:19 Write one! 21:27:03 :( 21:27:36 Oh, there are tons of editors out there. 21:28:03 yeah, ive looked but none have the options i want 21:28:14 What are the options you want? 21:28:22 customizable syntax 21:28:32 tabs for multiple files 21:28:40 splitters for groups of files 21:28:53 Um... 21:28:54 pretty much every feature of Notepad++ without the bugs 21:29:01 So just what will you be editing? 21:29:04 be careful with what you want, you might get it :) 21:29:07 what's wrong with vim? 21:29:22 whats wrong with it is that ive never heard of it 21:29:28 (ihope) lots of languages 21:29:56 and also im on Windows 21:30:16 As far as I know (not especially far), vim is what most people mean when they say vi. 21:30:28 And you can get vim for Windows. 21:30:38 vi? 21:30:50 Any comments of BF-RLE? 21:30:53 *on 21:31:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/vi 21:31:35 I was going to suggest bluefish, kate and fte until you mentioned windows 21:31:52 fte? 21:31:57 Well, maybe you can get those for Windows, too! 21:32:02 not sure if any of these meets your requirements though 21:32:05 Kate is a KDE app 21:32:50 Maybe you can get KDE for Windows! :-P 21:33:02 You can, it's in Cygwin. 21:33:04 (the list was in descending buggy order, btw) 21:33:06 Depends on Cygwin's X11 21:34:40 apparently FTE has a windows version: http://fte.sourceforge.net/ 21:35:46 hmm i cant go there 21:36:24 strange, can you visit other SF pages? 21:37:02 doesn't look like it 21:37:05 yup 21:37:06 i can 21:44:15 -!- GregorR has quit ("Off to [not pay attention in] my next class!"). 21:44:39 -!- GregorR has joined. 21:44:49 Welcome back! 21:45:03 You've missed SO MUCH... you'd better check the logs. 21:45:35 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("What he said"). 21:45:47 lol, I quit through VNC instead of quitting my -L client XD 21:45:49 Genius, really 21:46:43 -L client? 21:48:29 -L! -L! -L! 21:58:41 * ihope starts Adobe Reader 21:58:49 I'll be back in an hour or two. 22:01:08 Okay, I'm back. 22:02:23 -!- kipple has quit ("See you later"). 22:03:33 So just how do we convert a Turing machine into a Minsky machine? 22:04:59 I guess we'll need plenty of registers. 22:05:00 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 22:05:11 Apparently two is enough to pretend we have more than two. 22:05:52 Well, how can we represent algebraic datatypes in a Minsky thingy? 22:06:21 Well, first there's tuples. 22:06:45 Well, I guess I oughta start using something else to use at the start of sentences. 22:07:33 A tuple (x,y) is represented by 2^x*3^y. 22:09:30 Then we can represent trees easily enough: 0 is S, 1 is K, 1+(x,y) is `xy. 22:09:36 s/S/s/, s/K/k/ 22:13:28 Hmm. It would probably be much easier to write an SK calculus thingy in lambda calculus than in a Minsky or Turing machine. 22:19:02 Lambda calculus can pretty much change to anything at will. 22:19:37 "Lambda program, become a 99 bottles of beer program!" "Okay, master! 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer..." 22:34:54 if you have tuples you can build a stack.. and a tape... if you have a tape and a finite state machine (a minsky machine includes a finite state machine) you have a turing machine... 22:35:58 but actually you don't want to represent a stack as 2^x*3^(2^y*3^.... you'd represent it as a+b*256+c*256^2... 22:36:18 and two stacks => tape.... 2^stack_a*3^stack_b ... 22:36:26 the possiblities are endless 22:38:22 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:41:17 ...Yes! Since lambda calculus is self-modifying, it's possible to compress a program into another program that does the same thing! 22:44:21 s/compress/uncompress 22:47:19 s/uncompress/transform/ 22:48:40 s/transform/compress (maybe)/ 22:48:45 lol 22:55:04 But programs like (\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x)(\x.x) can be compressed quite easily. 23:04:55 * SimonRC goes 23:17:58 -!- khaladan has joined. 23:29:55 Any comments on BF-RLE? 23:31:44 Not really. 23:36:15 Hmm... 23:36:51 * Sgeo pokes http://www.leler.com/hawaii/DSCN0299.JPG with interest 23:39:36 Should I categorize it under [[Category:Brainfuck]] or [[Category:Brainfuck equivalents]]? 23:40:23 Hm, I'd say equiv. 23:42:46 -!- phibxr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:48:51 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("And then, Gregor left for home"). 23:54:25 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 23:54:28 Meh, what was I looking for? 23:56:25 Hmm... Synapsida's too specific. 23:56:59 que? 23:57:05 Maybe I'm looking for Tetrapoda. 23:57:53 Sarcopterygii's definitely too general. 23:58:22