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00:19:16 <ihope> What does EgoBot do to interpreters on !eof?
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00:19:32 <GregorR> ihope: It closes the pipe from EgoBot.
00:20:15 * pikhq really, really is starting to hate GCC
00:20:25 <ihope> So it'd probably be easy to handle EOF as a special case...
00:20:28 * GregorR is really, really starting to love GCC.
00:20:39 <GregorR> ihope: Trivial. if (feof(stdin))
00:21:04 <ihope> My new language invents two new "characters", and one of them is EOF.
00:21:22 <pikhq> I swear, somewhere in the code of it, there is a "if(code_is_valid()) {give_error_about_code}" statement. :p
00:21:48 <ihope> The other one is "beginning of data", which is the only character which can't be output.
00:21:51 <GregorR> if (pikhq_does_not_understand_subtle_failure_in_code()) { give_error_about_code(); }
00:22:11 <pikhq> GregorR: I'm quite probably not noticing something really stupid. . .
00:22:26 <pikhq> I'm just going to bitch and moan while I take a long break from it. ;)
00:22:42 <GregorR> In the interim, watch my cool DHT animation:
00:22:47 <GregorR> http://directnet.sourceforge.net/dht.avi
00:23:32 <pikhq> If only there were a "Pikhq C" spec (which is merely exactly how I *think* C works). :p
00:24:30 <ihope> Now, the spec for Thubi is probably much longer than it needs to be...
00:26:17 <ihope> Thubi doin' this: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Thubi
00:27:33 * ihope adds Thubi to the language list
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00:41:20 * pikhq just continues to bitch & moan for a bi
00:45:13 <GregorR> Typo or Freudian slip? You decide!
00:47:57 <RodgerTheGreat> why would anyone bitch and moan for a BF? There are tons.
00:48:18 <Razor-X> You're missing the AOLer slang here.
00:49:23 <Razor-X> Wow. I never thought someone would be worse than me in internet slang.
00:50:04 <Razor-X> I'm sorta proud that I'm negligent to all slang everywhere, even though I'm a teenager.
00:50:20 <Razor-X> I understand but don't use a single bit of it.
00:50:54 <Razor-X> I chafe when someone uses a `z' to imply a plural to look ``cool'', it's not cool, it's improper English bub.
00:53:40 <RodgerTheGreat> I've been known to make use of 13375P3/-\|< upon occasion, but I normally do so for humorous effec.
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00:54:56 <Razor-X> My laughs are all mimicable noises (``Heh'', ``Meh'') and I use emotes because I think English needs attitudnals (or mimesis).
00:56:01 <RodgerTheGreat> "KEKEKE" and "Nya" are two of my least favorite internet phrases.
00:56:12 <RodgerTheGreat> they aren't actually words, because words convey meaning.
00:57:33 <Razor-X> Well, they come from Japanese mimesis.
00:57:58 <Razor-X> Kekeke is the traditional Japanese laugh, and Nya is a particle used by women to sound more feminine/cute.
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01:17:39 <GregorR> If you used strcpy in your code, I will personally hunt you down and kill you.
01:18:39 <RodgerTheGreat> of course, emotes are primarily useful as another way to convey your emotional context, just like emoticons. They're vital to proper interpretation of people's words in the absence of vocal tone.
01:19:30 <ihope> Is the plural of mimesis mimeses?
01:19:43 <Razor-X> I would think so, logically.
01:20:41 <ihope> You mean Latinally?
01:20:48 <Razor-X> In a Japanese scientific text, you'd read something like ``The wings make the sound of *kya kya*'' or something similar. It's considered proper Japanese and a shame that it's not proper English.
01:21:04 <pikhq> GregorR: Know a better way of copying one string to another? If you do, thank God; I'm sick of this.
01:21:19 <GregorR> strcpy is not only a bad way of doing it, but an insecure way of doing it.
01:21:30 <Razor-X> Srncpy! The Lord has Come!
01:21:33 <pikhq> Which was proven by my segfault.
01:21:47 <GregorR> Don't use C if you don't know C -_-
01:21:59 <pikhq> I'm *learning* it.
01:22:11 <Razor-X> C is boring and not fun at all.
01:22:25 <ihope> Haskell is more fun.
01:22:30 <ihope> Thubi is the most fun.
01:22:31 <Razor-X> Because years after it was made people realized how bad the basic functions are.
01:22:32 <pikhq> Hmm. How does strncpy help when you don't know the size of the string to be copied until runtime?
01:22:37 <GregorR> C is fantastic, both logical and well-oriented to the system.
01:23:07 <pikhq> That doesn't seem very. . . robust. . .
01:23:12 <Razor-X> Or, you can store the input in a dynamic buffer and use the size of that to get input.
01:24:22 <GregorR> strncpy helps because you can pass that length into the copying function, yeesh.
01:24:52 <Razor-X> Dynamic buffers are the real way its done.
01:25:03 <Razor-X> What'd you think pikhq ? Input resizes for you automagically?
01:25:13 <pikhq> Would strncpy(foo, bar, strlen(bar)) be considered abusive?
01:25:33 <GregorR> Why are you having a segfault? Did you misallocate foo?
01:26:05 <pikhq> Razor-X: I'm jumping from Tcl, a high-level language which is much, much closer to Lisp than C, to C. . .
01:26:23 <pikhq> GregorR: Quite probably. :/
01:28:06 <ihope> So why not just use the indestructible languages? :-)
01:28:29 <pikhq> Trying to learn C.
01:29:03 <pikhq> The whole point of this excercise is learning C; if I use Tcl or Lisp, then I don't do what I set out to do.
01:29:54 <GregorR> What are you trying to write in your effort to learn C
01:30:11 <GregorR> Seems like you're setting your goal a bit high for your first C program ...
01:30:31 <pikhq> Just a very early effort.
01:30:45 <pikhq> It's amature-level coding, at least
01:31:05 <pikhq> Trying to write a mildly sophisticated Brainfuck compiler. . .
01:33:35 <pikhq> Meh. Now I'm to the point where I figured I'd have issues. . .
01:35:46 <ihope> How sophisticated?
01:36:14 <pikhq> At the moment, not at all.
01:36:28 <pikhq> Just got framework in place for it to be sophisticated.
01:36:40 <ihope> So it's "increment, increment, increment"?
01:38:22 * pikhq realises that the chunk of code that's segfaulting doesn't even need to be in there, anyways
01:43:57 <pikhq> Great. *Now* it's somehow segfaulting in fprintf. . .
01:44:15 <ihope> What's fprintf do?
01:44:24 <ihope> I know printf is a formatted print, but...
01:44:27 <pikhq> fprintf(out, "#include <stdio.h>\n");
01:44:38 <pikhq> It outputs to a file descriptor. . .
01:44:51 <ihope> So is out not a valid file descriptor or something?
01:45:18 <ihope> Or maybe the arguments are in the wrong order? :-)
01:45:31 <pikhq> Forgot to check for validity of file descriptors. x_x
01:47:54 <pikhq> The file to be written to hasn't been made yet. x_x
02:26:07 <RodgerTheGreat> does anyone here read xkcd? http://xkcd.com/index.html
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03:07:36 <CakeProphet> AH there... moved my concept to PlayGround.
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03:33:57 <CakeProphet> I have a neato programming language idea.. so neato I've actually made a page for it.
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03:57:08 <pikhq> Anyone know what EFAULT or "Bad address" means from fopen?
03:57:50 <pikhq> fopen(3) does not enlighten.
03:58:29 <pikhq> Ah. Missed a few lines in the man page.
04:00:08 <pikhq> EFAULT pathname points outside your accessible address space.
04:00:30 <pikhq> That. . . doesn't mean anything. . .
04:19:43 <Razor-X> Do you now understand the horrible amount of masochism C really is?
04:20:01 <Razor-X> It's worse than most Esolangs by a long shot.
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13:46:50 * pikhq less than gently curses at fopen
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14:38:57 <Keymaker> i guess the committee has the pool of tasks finished? :)
14:40:28 <Keymaker> is befunge-98 (which is used in the competition) basically befunge-93 but has infinite area?
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15:40:14 <fizzie> There are the cheaty "jump" and "set IP delta" commands.
15:40:21 <fizzie> And the whole module system.
15:40:26 <fizzie> And it's "Funge-98", isn't it?
15:42:06 <Keymaker> i can't find the specs anywhere!
15:42:39 <fizzie> http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:Fg0Q7nFPKOUJ:catseye.mine.nu:8080/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html
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18:18:56 <Razor-X> Committee members should join ##quantum right now. Thank you ^^
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18:53:17 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
18:53:19 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
18:53:23 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon cat reload
18:53:25 <EgoBot> 2 EgoBot: daemon EgoBot reload
18:53:37 <EgoBot> keeps getting abused :(<CTCP>
18:53:43 * EgoBot keeps getting abused :(
19:01:28 <pikhq> !EgoBot is #esoteric's bitch
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19:19:37 <Razor-X> !Egobot wants to have fun with Snakes on a Plane
19:19:50 <Razor-X> !EgoBot wants to have fun with Snakes on a Plane
19:19:52 * EgoBot wants to have fun with Snakes on a Plane
19:20:53 <GregorR-W> http://www.donotputthebaby.com/index.php?s=Snakes
19:22:16 <pikhq> And now, I've got one huge-ass major issue with my Brainfuck compiler. . .
19:22:32 <pikhq> The input file and the output file are switched.
19:24:21 <pikhq> Somehow, I pass the function compile a pointer to the input file and a string with the output file. Somehow, it tries reading from the output and writing to the input.
19:26:56 <pikhq> I step through it by hand, and I just can't figure it out.
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21:18:41 <ihope> Quantum INTERCAL doesn't look right.
21:19:18 <ihope> So if you have a register that's both 1 and 3 in Quantum INTERCAL, and you output the register, both 1 and 3 are printed?
21:20:35 <GregorR-W> That would definitely fall under the category "not right"
21:21:56 <ihope> Yeah. And that spec doesn't mention angles at all.
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21:54:36 <GregorR-W> http://directnet.sourceforge.net/255dht.avi ... that is all.
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21:57:50 <GregorR-W> That's my accomplishment for this weekend :P
22:21:51 <ihope> ERROR: Coder not of sufficient intelligence.
22:23:45 <CakeProphet> Can someone please input "lol" to this channel as long as the number 1 is equal to the number 1?
22:24:08 <GregorR-W> In case you didn't notice, I refuted the "IRP is TC" argument on the wiki.
22:25:04 <ihope> lollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollol
22:25:14 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR-W: you forgot one thing: there can be an infinite number of human CPU's running code in a room, providing potentially unlimited program and memory space.
22:25:49 <RodgerTheGreat> I believe that with sufficient coordinated IRP interpreters running, you could do anything.
22:26:19 <ihope> It's a series of tubes.
22:26:23 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm talking about using it as a multiprocessing environment.
22:26:43 <RodgerTheGreat> well, we know for sure it's not a truck that you can just- that you can just dump something on.
22:26:56 <CakeProphet> THat makes me want to make a programming language that works like a series of tubes and call it "the internet"
22:27:14 <ivan`> i just dumped something into my tubes
22:27:38 <RodgerTheGreat> CakeProphet: remember that massive, MASSIVE amounts of data could clog the tubes.
22:28:00 <ivan`> bittorrent is several terabytes per second of traffic
22:28:04 <ivan`> the tubes seem to be working fine
22:28:23 <RodgerTheGreat> and delay the delivery of internets to your office until yesterday when sent on friday.
22:29:57 <ivan`> i'd estimate google's doing about an exabyte a day of web traffic
22:30:25 <ivan`> their crawler's probably doing about as much
22:31:13 <ivan`> they should publish their webalizer stats. heh.
22:33:05 <ivan`> er. petabytes. sorry.
22:33:36 <ivan`> one petabytes please
22:33:57 <ivan`> it's so big, you should always pluralize it
22:34:20 <CakeProphet> petabyte... sounds like a children's food.
22:34:53 <ihope> That'd be pediabyte.
22:35:34 <ihope> An encyclopedia for children would be called Pediapedia.
22:38:42 <CakeProphet> It's fuuuuuun.... and I'm pretty sure it's Turing complete... which kind of scares me....
22:38:57 <ihope> Wikipedia is Turing-complete, you're saying?
22:40:28 <CakeProphet> I mean.. it has a bunch of control flow statement-like templates... so it can do logic...
22:44:21 <ihope> Can it do infinite loops?
22:45:12 <RodgerTheGreat> if you can do infinite loops, math, and store variables, you can create a turing-complete system.
22:45:52 <CakeProphet> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ParserFunctions
22:45:58 <ihope> But the basic components don't have to include infinite loops, math, or variables.
22:46:47 <CakeProphet> Maybe if you had a template that had itself as part of the template...
22:47:06 <RodgerTheGreat> recursive function calls can simulate looping- that could work.
22:47:25 * CakeProphet uses recursive function calls all the time for loops ;)
22:47:53 <CakeProphet> Not sure you'd want to do that... it might bog the server down a lot.
22:48:00 <ihope> CakeProphet: won't work. The sub-template won't get substituted.
22:48:23 <ihope> RodgerTheGreat: variables can be simulated using state transformers.
22:48:28 <CakeProphet> Then make two identical templates... and have one substitute one to the other and vice versa.
22:49:05 <ihope> Functions that take local variables and return their new values, that is.
22:49:13 <ihope> CakeProphet: I don't think that'd work, either.
22:49:25 <CakeProphet> They probably have guards against that anyways.
22:49:49 <CakeProphet> To prevent people from.. uh... fucking up the server that way :D
22:49:51 <ihope> I once managed to get a <!-- WARNING: Template loop detected -->
22:50:01 <RodgerTheGreat> if we can't do infinite loops, can we do finite ones? For... Next and the like?
22:50:10 <CakeProphet> Yup... it'd be possible if it didn't lock it.
22:50:30 <CakeProphet> Well... I think it has some kind of for functionality.
22:50:51 <ihope> for n = 1 to 100000000000000000000
22:50:52 <RodgerTheGreat> you could simulate a LOT of infinite loops with for... next's.
22:52:37 <RodgerTheGreat> can a language be turing-complete if it has a finite cycle limit that *can* be as high as you want?
22:53:02 <CakeProphet> Hmmm... it has a BoolHash template... not sure what that does though.
22:53:55 <CakeProphet> But it does have functions, boolean crap, and logic gates...... but functions aren't even nessicary for turing completeness...
22:54:25 <RodgerTheGreat> all you really need is something to build basic math from, and you can simulate most conditionals.
22:55:31 <CakeProphet> Hmm.. no idea how you could simulate a conditional.
22:56:51 <GregorR-W> You can't predict how many cycles a program will take until it's done.
22:57:09 <GregorR-W> So for a language to be Turing complete you cannot have a finite cycle limit.
22:57:25 <CakeProphet> You also can't predict the future in general.
22:58:01 <RodgerTheGreat> you can predict the future, given complete data, but in practice it would generally take slower than realtime to figure out.
22:58:39 <GregorR-W> RodgerTheGreat: That's working under classical mechanics.
22:59:45 <RodgerTheGreat> quantum mechanics, to me, are only based on probabilistic calculations because we don't yet completely understand the mechanics underlying them. I am a firm proponent of an ultimately mechanical universe.
23:00:49 <RodgerTheGreat> many complex systems appear to defy mechanical thinking when their workings are not fully explored.
23:00:50 <CakeProphet> The universe is magical... there... no need to explain it.
23:01:01 <GregorR-W> RodgerTheGreat: Yeah, I can agree with that.
23:03:46 <ihope> RodgerTheGreat: under the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there's no randomness involved.
23:03:51 * CakeProphet wishes he had the know-how to make a "fuzzy programming language"
23:04:01 <CakeProphet> Can't really control it... but it works... sometimes
23:04:52 <CakeProphet> Not fuzzy logic... although that'd be fun too (A "maybe" boolean)
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23:06:50 <ihope> True, false, surely true, surely false...
23:07:44 <CakeProphet> The language would be called "sometimes"... and it would be as reliable as I am...
23:10:05 <CakeProphet> An "almost true" boolean.. for when things are just sooooo close to be the correct value./
23:10:44 <ihope> What's wrong with yes, maybe, no?
23:10:58 <CakeProphet> Which would then spawn things such as "if x is more true than y" to see which one is just more almost true than the other.
23:11:10 <CakeProphet> That would actually have applications for not-so-definite systems.
23:11:33 <GregorR-W> I need to write a scripting language based loosely on Glass but with less horrible.
23:12:35 <CakeProphet> Hmmm... maybe useful for language parsing....
23:12:57 <CakeProphet> You could comparse if the word stated is more true with one value than the other... and whatnot.
23:15:06 <CakeProphet> Not a lot of languages can handle uncertainty... so that would be.. hmm.. difficult to create effectively.
23:38:22 <sparr_> Glass, now with less horrible!
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