00:00:16 <GregorR-W> Never been able to program in it though...
00:00:27 <lament> dvorak is for losers who want to be "different"
00:01:37 -!- kipple_ has quit ("See you later").
00:05:22 <ihope> What do winners who want to be different use?
00:06:08 <ihope> An alphabetically arranged keyboard?
00:25:11 -!- GregorR-W has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:28:32 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
00:30:10 -!- GregorR-W has changed nick to AgentWhite.
00:58:46 <Keymaker> yes! :) works. i made a bmp that shows as a picture, and if you run it as com it prints out the exact data of itself. thus, a quine. as well, it uses data part as a quine should, instead of reading the program directly from memory that dos probably would allow
00:59:48 <pikhq> That'd be more impressive if it were used as an x86 Linux ELF. XD
01:00:00 <pikhq> Should work just fine on FreeDOS, though. ;)
01:00:26 <ihope> AgentWhite: even COM files that begin with the string "MZ"?
01:00:35 <ihope> Or is the string "MZ" actually nothing special?
01:02:07 <Keymaker> there was annoying problem in the process of making it.. what i read was that microsoft itself defined that their bmp format should allow, for some reason, some header data larger than 40 bytes. but when i tried that it seems only the ms paint could open such picture, and paint shop pro and opera and so on, couldn't. i read that few programs ever adapted to that +40 header data thing, and so it is that even windows image viewer or whatever
01:02:39 <Keymaker> so, i had to use another way; i extended the data part by one extra byte, and increased the total size in bytes by one
01:02:52 <Keymaker> that was the only way to get an odd number as total size in bytes
01:03:30 <Keymaker> and thus get a jump instruction from the beginning
01:03:31 <pikhq> MZ is the magic number for a DOS EXE, yeah. . .
01:03:47 <AgentWhite> .com's don't have a magic number, do they?
01:03:57 <Keymaker> anyways, programs don't seem to care if there is extra 144 in the end of the file, as they all open it correctly
01:04:32 <Keymaker> likely because the width and height are told in the bmp file
01:04:35 <ihope> I thought MZ was the magic number thing.
01:04:35 * Asztal wonders if his befunge bmp-to-tga converter would open it
01:04:56 <Keymaker> and, i think there is something, wait. "BM"
01:05:11 <pikhq> There are many "EXE" formats, though. . .
01:05:41 <pikhq> AgentWhite: That's the Portable Executable format.
01:05:49 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXE
01:05:52 <Keymaker> i got confused because i looked with hex editor to this pic:)
01:06:06 <AgentWhite> A raw dump can't really have a magic number :)
01:06:54 <pikhq> AgentWhite: But there are formats older then PE.
01:06:59 <AgentWhite> ihope: You could write a .com program by running a .exe program, stopping it, then cat /dev/mem > blah.com :P
01:07:25 <pikhq> AgentWhite: The magic number MZ is used for DOS .EXE format.
01:07:35 <AgentWhite> pikhq: I thought DOS .exe's were based on COFF as well?
01:07:45 <ihope> Running an .exe program, then using cat and /dev/mem?
01:07:49 <ihope> What operating system is this?
01:07:58 <pikhq> http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/doc/exe/ Does that look like COFF?
01:08:11 <AgentWhite> ihope: I'm just saying that a .com is basically a dump of memory.
01:08:32 <AgentWhite> pikhq: OK, OK, sorry I don't know my esoteric/obsolete binary formats by heart :P
01:08:42 <pikhq> AgentWhite: Wikipedia.
01:09:17 <AgentWhite> "(in DJGPP, the size of the stub and the start of the COFF image)"
01:09:35 <pikhq> ihope: All that DOS does with a COM file is load it into 0x0100 and jump to that address. Not very complex. . .
01:10:56 <AgentWhite> OK, OK, OK, I don't know my obsolete file formats, whatev ;)
01:11:15 <pikhq> AgentWhite: Nor do I.
01:11:28 <pikhq> AgentWhite: I use Wikipedia as a natural brain supplement; you should, too. :p
01:12:06 <Keymaker> http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/quine8.bmp
01:13:32 <AgentWhite> Does it need that grey section to be grey?
01:14:44 <ihope> It has a grey section.
01:14:53 <ihope> Does it need to be grey?
01:15:21 <AgentWhite> If Keymaker understands what ihope just said, I need to relearn English :P
01:15:57 <Keymaker> this doesn't probably answer your question, but so much gray is because the pic has plenty of nops, so that it's dimensions would be large enough to make the byte-in-sizes value a JMP with large enough value
01:16:34 <Keymaker> it wouldn't necessarily, but that'd require a lot changes to the program
01:16:35 <AgentWhite> So, can those nops be replaced with, say, a jump past all the nops and some data that would end up being a pretty picture?
01:16:49 <Keymaker> and i'm not going to do that, at least not for a while, if ever :)
01:16:53 <ihope> Wouldn't that output the thing with grey?
01:18:44 <Keymaker> agentwhite: well, you could replace the nops with something else, at least part of them, but you need also space from your picture for having the data part
01:19:52 <Keymaker> and of course, this code wouldn't work
01:19:52 <Keymaker> i mean, in this program you can't just randomly change those nops
01:20:56 <Keymaker> and ihope: i still can't what you're talking about grey :D
01:21:40 <Keymaker> but it doesn't matter :) i'll terminate for this evening. night.
01:21:58 -!- Keymaker has left (?).
01:30:02 -!- AgentWhite has quit ("kill(getpid(), SIGGOHOME)").
01:50:02 -!- ihope has changed nick to iSpy.
01:50:49 -!- iSpy has changed nick to ihope.
02:12:49 -!- ihope has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
02:24:17 -!- NamelessOne has joined.
02:50:16 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
03:00:54 -!- NamelessOne has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:11:36 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
03:17:16 <CakeProphet> It's flesible and all, but it's so... tediooous..
03:38:11 -!- dbc has joined.
03:40:36 <pikhq> Any guess what homework I'm working on?
03:44:10 -!- NamelessOne has joined.
04:03:36 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
04:05:31 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
04:07:50 -!- calamari has joined.
04:18:34 -!- sekhmet has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
04:43:18 -!- Arrogant has joined.
05:14:32 -!- NamelessOne has left (?).
05:48:08 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
06:08:49 -!- ivan` has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC").
06:24:08 -!- Razor-X has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:24:08 -!- wooby has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:24:09 -!- GregorR has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:24:09 -!- cmeme has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:24:16 -!- wooby has joined.
06:24:16 -!- cmeme has joined.
06:24:16 -!- Razor-X has joined.
06:24:16 -!- GregorR has joined.
06:57:08 -!- Razor-X has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:57:08 -!- wooby has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:57:09 -!- GregorR has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:57:09 -!- cmeme has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
06:57:32 -!- wooby has joined.
06:57:32 -!- cmeme has joined.
06:57:32 -!- Razor-X has joined.
06:57:32 -!- GregorR has joined.
07:11:30 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
07:11:41 -!- jix has joined.
07:29:28 -!- ivan` has joined.
07:45:23 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
07:45:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
09:03:11 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
09:06:18 -!- jix has joined.
09:24:50 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
10:09:05 -!- ivan` has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so good").
10:17:32 -!- clog has joined.
10:17:32 -!- clog has joined.
10:42:29 -!- anonfunc has joined.
10:43:23 -!- anonfunc has quit (Client Quit).
10:43:26 -!- anonfunc has joined.
11:29:38 -!- anonfunc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
11:29:41 -!- anonfunc has joined.
14:32:10 -!- sekhmet has joined.
14:55:26 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
15:28:02 -!- j1x has joined.
15:28:08 -!- j1x has left (?).
15:48:13 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
15:56:42 -!- fr34k has joined.
16:31:42 -!- Asztal has joined.
16:36:10 -!- boblol has joined.
16:43:13 -!- anonfunc has quit.
16:49:47 -!- fr34k has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
16:57:58 -!- boblol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:04:09 -!- anonfunc has joined.
17:15:10 -!- anonfunc has quit.
17:33:49 -!- kipple_ has joined.
18:34:22 <SimonRC> Oooh: newsquiz on radio 4 now.
19:38:49 -!- tgwizard has joined.
19:51:36 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa").
20:05:23 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:56:06 -!- jwest- has joined.
20:56:22 -!- jwest- has left (?).
20:56:34 <SimonRC> the only binary operations are select and mingle.
20:57:34 <SimonRC> (I was talking to him about INTERCAL.)
20:58:14 <Asztal> Mingle is actually a useful operation for implementing a befunge interpreter
20:58:48 <Asztal> sort of. INTERCAL's other restrictions get in the way a bit.
20:59:46 <Asztal> You could use Morton numbers for keys in a binary tree
20:59:55 <Asztal> but, I've yet to see a binary tree in INTERCAL
20:59:59 -!- jwest- has joined.
21:00:15 <SimonRC> Asztal: some dynamic allocation would be necessary
21:23:24 -!- fr34k has joined.
21:25:33 <fr34k> well i mean; is he available?
21:26:31 <SimonRC> he last said something at 12:36UTC
21:27:24 <fr34k> and what is it now?
21:28:37 <fr34k> wich means its quite a small chance i get a hold of him?
21:29:48 <Asztal> Apparently he's idle for 1 hours, 57 minutes, 16 seconds. So probably, yes.
21:30:41 <SimonRC> where did you get the idle time from?
21:30:56 <Asztal> in my client, I do /wii <name>
21:31:15 <fizzie> In most clients, you can do "/whois <name> <name>"
21:31:37 <fizzie> The latter argument (or is it the former?) is the server to ask from.
21:31:48 <fizzie> So with '<name> <name>' it asks from the irc server used by <name>.
21:32:05 <fizzie> (Which replies with idle-time and away-message; servers further away generally don't.)
21:32:38 <fizzie> In my client (irssi) /WII is, by default, an alias for "whois $0 $0".
21:32:51 <SimonRC> In irssi, at least, "/wii" is a macro for "/whois $0 $0"
21:33:11 <SimonRC> Hey! you are a man/woman of taset
21:34:28 <fizzie> I thought irssi was the semi-standard irc client nowadays, having replaced ircii/epic for most people. (At least that's the case with people I know, which might not be a representative sample.)
21:35:45 <SimonRC> irssi is still CLI-only, though
21:36:07 <SimonRC> correction: irssi is still text-mode-only, though
21:36:17 * Asztal actually uses chatzilla :o
21:36:41 <fizzie> There was a GTK/Gnome interface included with the main sources at some point, but I guess it got a bit outdated.
21:38:38 <fizzie> A GUI for irssi was one of their Google-Summer-of-Code projects.
21:38:48 <SimonRC> real programmers telnet to port 6667
21:40:14 <Asztal> with a telnet program written in <insert esolang>
21:41:40 <fizzie> Don't see any news as to what happened with the SoC projects. Or any news at all after May 2nd. (Back when cras was still writing irssi, at least one could get bugs fixed by privmsging patches; with this new dev-team I don't have that luxury, since I don't feel comfortable talking to strangers.)
21:43:15 -!- fr34k has quit.
21:44:34 <jwest-> if irssi became gui, then i think its falling out on exactly why the project began even
21:45:00 <fizzie> My experiences with X-Chat haven't been pleasant. (Although that's not quite fair; haven't tried it in years, it might have gotten better.)
21:45:23 <fizzie> It does have a rather clean backend/frontend specification, so one _could_ write a GUI without ruining it for people who don't want it.
21:45:33 <fizzie> The "It" here meaning irssi, of course.
21:46:20 <jwest-> i dont like it either but seems they've implemented screen
21:46:23 <jwest-> so i might want to try
21:46:29 <jwest-> thats one big feature it was missing out on
22:27:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:28:39 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
22:29:45 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:44:20 -!- jwest- has quit ("nite").
23:05:29 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
23:14:59 -!- ihope has joined.
23:15:23 <ihope> I sense an operator.
23:16:07 <ihope> Maybe my senses are broken.
23:16:32 <ihope> But they're saying that fizzie did *something* recently.
23:16:50 <ihope> About two minutes ago.
23:17:12 <ihope> Now some over two minutes ago.
23:24:38 <SimonRC> challange: get to the thirtieth page (which will tell you that you win). http://n.nfshost.com/1.html There are a couple of evil puzzels. And you will need to use other sites a couple of times, and some tools that any geek will have to hand (simple UNIX CLI stuff).
23:24:51 * SimonRC goes to bed (good luck with the puzzles).
23:25:35 <GregorR-W> Challenge: Stare at the goatse picture, unflinching, for ten minutes straight.
23:29:28 <Asztal> I would scale it down to 1x1 pixels, but I think it would still be bad.
23:46:22 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:46:54 -!- Arrogant has joined.