00:03:55 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
00:04:08 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:03:31 <pikhq> I now have uncompress.b as a C/Brainfuck polyglot.
01:03:49 <pikhq> Not a particularly clever one, but still.
01:13:24 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/unc.b.c
01:16:13 <pikhq> The C code, BTW, is just a direct translation from the original Brainfuck comments (I don't like how it'd look done inside of the case statements of my original C code).
01:21:42 -!- ihope has joined.
01:22:46 <ihope> Efficient quantum sorting algorithm: randomize the order of the list you want to sort. If it's not sorted, destroy the universe.
01:26:32 -!- ihope has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09").
01:30:41 <GregorR-L> Assuming destroying the universe is in O(1)
01:50:38 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving").
02:01:27 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
03:13:48 -!- CXI has quit (Connection reset by peer).
03:18:40 -!- CXI has joined.
03:42:18 -!- Razor-X has joined.
03:43:31 <pikhq> I hate being called a communist for supporting software freedom. D:<
03:44:21 <RodgerTheGreat> think about that the next time you decide to call someone a "consumerist slave".
03:46:07 <pikhq> 20:27 < RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: there's a name for that. communism.
03:46:18 <pikhq> 20:28 < RodgerTheGreat> I'd rather have my free market than free software. Idealism is really great until you realize you need to eat.
03:47:18 <RodgerTheGreat> [01:16 AM] *** pikhq sets mode +enslaved on RodgerTheGreat<CTCP>
03:47:18 <RodgerTheGreat> [01:17 AM] <pikhq> shadowarts: The thing I don't get with proprietary software users supporting proprietary software. . . Is that, to me, it's about like a slave arguing that slavery is good for all.
03:48:02 <pikhq> I just said that you're enslaved. . . Which you *are*. You're dependant on Microsoft's whim.
03:49:02 <pikhq> What do you use, then?
03:52:11 <RodgerTheGreat> Apple. And while you can argue, as you do *ad nauseam* that lacking the ability to "share, study and modify" the kernel of my OS, that I am ultimately limited, the fact is: I enjoy the software that I have, the way it is. I was willing to pay money for it when I bought it, and it allows me to do the work I want to do with my computer. If you're so interested in the freedom of software, why aren't you willing to put money toward *t
03:52:48 <pikhq> Because I don't have money to put towards it or anything else.
03:53:18 <pikhq> (and yes, I'm working on getting a job. . .)
03:53:48 <RodgerTheGreat> hah! and you claim it's possible to make a living from free software. If the entire world thought like you do, not even richard stallman would be able to live on somebody else's dime!
03:54:49 <pikhq> The fact that I lack a job is irrelevant: as I've never had a job, it's highly unlikely that I could get anything beyond a burger flipping job.
03:55:19 <RodgerTheGreat> I don't see how that makes a difference. I know many people that had jobs by your age, and you can be damn sure *I* was earning money when I was 16. You're nothing but a freeloader, and an elitist one at that.
03:55:37 <pikhq> Also, might I remind you that, while the ideals of the free software movement may seem "impractical", they *have* had practical results.
03:55:42 * pikhq is using a free OS ATM
03:56:25 <pikhq> In fact, *you* partially benefit from this.
03:56:56 <pikhq> Apple, while as a *whole* nonfree, contains bits and pieces from the free software community (the ones that were mildly unwise in not using copyleft).
03:57:42 <pikhq> As to your accusation of being a freeloader. . . Try getting a job when you're expecting to move before the year is out.
03:59:18 <pikhq> Just saying, it's a bit difficult to get a job without being around long enough to make you worth hiring.
03:59:48 <pikhq> And as to your elitism accusation. . .
03:59:54 <pikhq> Have you looked in a mirror lately?
04:01:45 <pikhq> *sigh* Never ceases to amaze me how violently someone can reject the simple concept that the ideas of freedom apply to software, too.
04:01:54 <RodgerTheGreat> all I see here is someone I made the mistake of *giving* a free shell account to, only to have myself and my friends personally insulted, without seeing so much as a shred of graditude!
04:02:31 <pikhq> And all I'm seeing is an escalating flame war.
04:03:42 <pikhq> How's about we just get this whole thing out on a fresh start, shall we?
04:04:32 <RodgerTheGreat> Next time you want something with me, take it to PM's, rather than retreating to another channel where you think you can get sympathy.
04:07:16 <pikhq> I run gNewSense & Gentoo.
04:07:29 <pikhq> Frodo's going to go over to gNewSense once 1.0 is released. . .
04:08:17 <Razor-X> Hi, I'm a PC and my user is running very low on time. I run Slackware Linux.
04:08:18 <pikhq> It's basically Ubuntu with all of the nonfree software removed.
04:08:39 <pikhq> Razor-X: Then don't use IRC.
04:08:42 <calamari> oh.. what's nonfree in Ubuntu?
04:09:00 <pikhq> The kernel they ship with, for one, contains binary firmware blobs.
04:09:21 <calamari> anything besides the kernel, which I can recompile at any time?
04:09:40 <pikhq> The nonfree archive, of course. XD
04:10:22 <pikhq> While you can reject this, I personally don't feel that a distro should offer (semi)official support for nonfree software, but have it seperated to claim "we support free software".
04:10:58 <calamari> well.. I don't have anything against freeware
04:11:02 <pikhq> Of course, this is a much, much more minor issue than the fact that roughly 95% of all computer users don't have the right to use, study, share, and change.
04:11:16 <calamari> people can decide how they want to release their code
04:11:31 <pikhq> Not this damned argument again.
04:11:35 <calamari> I think if some people had their way, they'd want to force people to use gpl
04:12:04 <pikhq> I wouldn't force people to use GPL. . . I'd only force people to give all users control over their computer.
04:12:23 <pikhq> The BSD license also provides this essential right.
04:12:40 <calamari> I'm against forcing people to do things.. if there is a law then it has to be enforced.. and that means police, prison, etc
04:13:02 <calamari> just seems silly to put someone in a prison over not releasing their source code
04:13:12 <calamari> if you want it that bad, use a disassembler
04:13:25 <pikhq> calamari: Then surely copyright itself, which must be enforced against all people (since the means for copying is available to all people), is wrong?
04:13:37 <calamari> pikhq: in its current state, it certainly is
04:13:47 <pikhq> calamari: That much, I can agree with you.
04:14:13 <pikhq> I just think that copyright law should be changed to enforce the release of source code (which, it seems, you *would* disagree with).
04:15:00 <pikhq> I, personally, think it sad that this would need to be enforced, though. . .
04:15:02 <calamari> I see nothing wrong with keeping a piece of software closed.. the problem is that copyrights never expire these days
04:15:31 <RodgerTheGreat> source code constitutes properly, and it should be the choice of the author of that code to release it or not. Source code is not a fundamental right by any means.
04:15:32 <calamari> but, since nobody seems to care oabout the constitution anymore.. this kind of thing happens
04:15:44 <pikhq> I feel that it would be far better for people to see that it's wrong to do so, and keep the government out of it.
04:16:21 <calamari> pikhq: I'm a Libertarian.. so I agree with keeping the government out of things
04:16:37 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Source code is nothing more than math, written down in such a way that a computer can understand it.
04:16:54 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Well, written in such a way both a computer and a human can understand it.
04:17:06 <calamari> should say libertarian since I'm not an official member
04:17:25 <RodgerTheGreat> are you implying that math and algorithms are all fundamentally intuitive, and that no creativity or substantial work go into creating source code?
04:18:34 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Not at all. I'm saying that ideas shouldn't be kept under lock and key.
04:19:08 <pikhq> What is the purpose of creativity if you're not willing to show it to others?
04:19:51 <RodgerTheGreat> in the information age, ideas *and their successful implementation* are the most valuable possession a person could have. Unless I *wanted* to share them, I'd keep them under lock and key like anything else I own of value.
04:19:55 <calamari> before I leave: some ideas I want to share, some I want to sell.. I should be able to do both
04:20:10 <pikhq> calamari *does* have a good point; greed alone (the desire for *more* money, not the desire for money at all) keeps ideas under lock and key.
04:20:32 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: One doesn't need to be paid for copies of software.
04:20:41 <pikhq> One could just as well be paid for the act of writing the software.
04:21:29 <pikhq> Although one can also sell copies of software (the GNU project, for example, sells GNU).
04:21:58 <pikhq> All of this one can do *while* giving the right to use, share, study, and change to users.
04:22:37 <pikhq> Perhaps we should move to a PM?
04:23:35 <RodgerTheGreat> I don't even want to talk about this there. You're a broken record. Just *stop*, already.
04:24:40 <pikhq> You, too, are a broken record. . . Presumably because neither of us is willing to concede to the other's points.
04:25:03 * pikhq sets mode +mute on himself
04:27:18 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Fine: One last thing I have to say. . .
04:27:24 <pikhq> Thank you for pikhq@nonlogic.org
04:34:52 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
05:02:53 -!- Eidolos has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:27:59 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
05:36:47 -!- CXI has joined.
05:51:06 -!- Arrogant has joined.
06:27:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out).
06:30:30 -!- RodgerTh1Great has joined.
06:36:14 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
06:38:30 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving").
07:19:45 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
07:20:01 -!- CXI has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:01:25 -!- GregorR-W has quit (Remote closed the connection).
08:02:16 -!- GregorR-W has joined.
08:38:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:40:22 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
08:45:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit).
08:45:04 -!- puzzlet has joined.
08:57:17 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:57:35 -!- CXI has joined.
10:08:09 * SimonRC decides that the only reason closed-source software ever existed was because computers are slow.
10:09:27 <SimonRC> oh, and floppy dicsks are very small, and early networks were very slow
10:10:24 <SimonRC> If compilers had never been necessary, and data transferr and storage had been better, the practice of distributing programs in a form different from that in which you produced them would not have become so widespread.
10:10:58 <SimonRC> I am undecided as to when exactly it is a good thing and when not, though.
13:26:03 -!- RodgerTh1Great has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
13:31:04 -!- jix has joined.
13:35:36 * SimonRC is impressed: http://thedailywtf.com/forums/permalink/82701/83130/ShowThread.aspx#83130
13:36:59 <SimonRC> a piece of code that contains 64 keywords in a row without repetition, and which compiles
13:46:48 -!- fr34k has joined.
13:46:56 -!- fr34k has changed nick to boblol.
13:55:09 <pikhq> Wanting to go and kill the Monkey's Audio devs.
14:05:30 <pikhq> It's nonfree, but claims GPL compatibility.
14:08:49 <pikhq> If you know *anything* about free software, you should be able to see the BS inherent in this. ;)
14:10:22 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:10:23 -!- SimonRC has joined.
14:10:29 <RodgerTheGreat> is this how you start conversations in meatspace, too?
14:11:52 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: I could ask you the same question.
14:16:07 <GregorR> "2. Monkey's Audio source can be included in GPL and open-source software, although Monkey's Audio itself will not be subjected to external licensing requirements or other viral source restrictions."
14:16:26 <GregorR> "2. The person who wrote this license doesn't understand the concept of licensing in the slightest."
14:19:30 <SimonRC> Quote (Bill Gates apparently): "Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight."
14:23:20 <boblol> Quote (by rasist): "I want to move to a country that dont take in immigrants."
14:27:13 -!- boblol has quit.
14:34:49 <SimonRC> ah, the wonders of automatic countdowns: http://yisraylhawkins.com/
14:34:52 <SimonRC> "Wednesday, September 27, 2006" "-15 days remaining before the start of nuclear war"
14:39:31 -!- calamari has joined.
15:28:50 -!- kipple_ has joined.
16:03:36 -!- sparr_work has quit ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'").
16:13:47 <SimonRC> Seen on Slashdot: "- Smart voice recognition? Anyone tried it lately? Anyone tried to write pretty standard letters with it? Desastrous."
16:35:31 -!- oerjanj has joined.
16:59:17 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
16:59:45 -!- CXI has joined.
17:15:14 -!- tgwizard has joined.
19:12:22 * SimonRC wants an environment that lets him do functional and declarative programming with super-duper types like Haskell yet allows running programs to modify themselves in any way like Squeak does.
19:12:58 <SimonRC> A pocket-sized mobile phone with a 17-in display would be nice too.
19:12:59 * pikhq hands SimonRC a parser generator
19:13:15 <SimonRC> pikhq: were you even listening
19:13:28 <pikhq> SimonRC: Yeah; I'm saying "write your own".
19:13:50 <SimonRC> I thought you were suggesting a parser generator as th solution.
19:14:02 <pikhq> It's only part of the solution.
19:46:19 -!- CXI has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:46:26 -!- CXII has joined.
20:03:42 -!- Rodger has joined.
20:03:49 -!- Rodger has left (?).
20:10:54 -!- oerjanj has quit ("Leaving").
20:42:03 -!- kipple__ has joined.
20:48:50 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:59:33 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
20:59:34 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:15:31 * SimonRC indicates that project Croquet looks very interesting, and will either turn out to be the greatest thing ever or totally crap.
21:23:54 -!- RodgerTh1Great has joined.
21:33:46 <GregorR-W> SimonRC: /me leans towards "totally crap"
21:35:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:48:54 <GregorR-W> SimonRC: Because HIDs are still 2D. 3D HIDs would need to come about before 3D UIs become useful.
21:49:05 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht").
21:51:12 -!- RodgerTh1Great has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat.
21:55:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has left (?).
21:55:32 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:25:24 -!- dbc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:26:54 -!- Razor-X has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:35:00 <SimonRC> good way to waste 2 hours: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5534080568776365031
23:39:44 -!- Razor-X has joined.
23:50:58 -!- GregorR-W has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/0000000000]").