< 1159748113 0 :W_!n=W@199.80-203-25.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1159751740 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1159751924 0 :Weirdbro!n=Weirdbro@pool-151-197-183-37.phil.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159752234 0 :Weirdbro!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1159756175 0 :jix__!n=jix@L63fb.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1159756829 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1159757088 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159758004 0 :ivan`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The dawn of a new IRC era" < 1159759741 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@c-24-21-138-66.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159760577 0 :Arrogant!n=scotty@183.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159762297 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159762819 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1159764394 0 :anonfunc!n=pimaniac@adsl-67-117-27-48.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159767170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159768537 0 :Arrogant!i=Scott@69.orlando-09-10rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159768735 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1159775999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1159776000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1159776569 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1159780263 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159781310 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159781314 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1159782689 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotel Echo Lima Lima Oscar < 1159788818 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1159790494 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159790521 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-50-81.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1159790623 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi *2 < 1159790641 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1159790693 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is crackin < 1159791493 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159791725 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159794451 0 :jix!n=jix@L63fb.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1159798650 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'd rather have this bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." < 1159799861 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1159809030 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1159809030 0 :clog_!n=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1159809522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1159809991 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1159809992 0 :clog_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :clog < 1159810704 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159812844 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: Someone on Slashdot lists bundling TCP/IP connectivity with the OS as a reason to dislike MS. Duh! http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=198669&cid=16278447 < 1159812924 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_O < 1159812931 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And instead you should use, what, DOS? < 1159813261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, you should of course whistle into the modem. < 1159814648 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159814835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be pissed if a TCP/IP stack weren't part of the *kernel*. . . < 1159814843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-W: Windows 3.1. :p < 1159815021 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants more stuff in Userland < 1159815035 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferrably the boot monitor too. < 1159815038 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1159815114 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to eat dinner < 1159815185 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands SimonRC GNU/Hurd < 1159815187 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy. < 1159817704 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do tcp/ip from dos :) < 1159818047 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: But it's not bundled with the OS, that was the point. < 1159818066 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh well then that proves that dos is the ultimate os < 1159818126 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real mode ftw < 1159820805 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159820809 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1159821180 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For those of you who haven't seen it, a pathalogical language: http://home.inreach.com/sl2120/Ithkuil/index.htm < 1159821378 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking it may be considered analogous to programming by writing gzipped binaries using a text editor. < 1159821501 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on second thoughts... < 1159821516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking it may be considered analogous to programming by writing gzipped Malbolge using a text editor. < 1159821634 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typical quote from the grammar: "The PARTITIVE case is marked by Series G vocalic mutation of the stem along with Grade 3 mutation of the C2 radical consonant." < 1159821718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks you exaggerate a bit < 1159821760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip compression is, as far as I know, non-local. < 1159821789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mutations are not unusual in ordinary human languages < 1159821818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider just the english: sing, sang, sung < 1159821864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i assume ithkuil is a _bit_ denser than usual :) < 1159821872 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that < 1159821927 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i used to subscribe to the conlang mailing list so i may be damaged already... < 1159821976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never got around to fleshing out my own languages though - about the same situation as with my esolangs < 1159822040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dances a little procrastination dance < 1159822318 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h61.242.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1159822497 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1159822520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was that lambda? < 1159822762 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... math people... < 1159822765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what's wrong with this: < 1159822774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rubs his hands < 1159822890 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^2 = -1 < 1159822892 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^6 = i^2 * i^2 * i^2 < 1159822893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^6 = -1 * -1 * -1 < 1159822895 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^6 = -1 < 1159822896 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i^2 = i^6 < 1159822898 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 = 6 < 1159822927 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is correct up to the last line < 1159822941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHy would it be wrong? < 1159822953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, i^4 = 1. < 1159822976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the same reason that (-1)^2 = 1^2 does not imply -1 = 1 < 1159822998 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shakes head* < 1159823002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different thing < 1159823006 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1159823008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1159823031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exponentiation is not one-to-one in either argument < 1159823033 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are both cases of no-thingumy functions < 1159823050 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-thingumy? < 1159823061 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right there... I'm using the whole if a^y = a^x then y = x < 1159823062 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't recall the term < 1159823079 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)^2 = 1^2 has different bases. < 1159823116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that implication does not hold unless a is positive and x,y are real < 1159823125 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: maybe a is defined for all real numbers in your case :) < 1159823133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1159823150 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be. < 1159823165 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think about 1^5 = 1^3 < 1159823168 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you imaginaries... always leaving me inable-to-prove-2-equals-6 < 1159823185 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess a > " < 1159823186 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess a > 2 < 1159823189 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess a >= 2 < 1159823190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, if a is complex and x not an integer, then a^x is usually considered to have multiple values < 1159823266 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were true.. it would only be a matter of time before you could prove that a number equals every other number. < 1159823302 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed you must not see ^ as a function in that context < 1159823320 0 :lindi-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a shorthand for expressing solutions of an equation < 1159823398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1159823453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln (a^x) = x* ln(a) < 1159823492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ln is not a function either in this context, but just a solution to exp(ln x)=x < 1159823539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, exp is a function. < 1159823578 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is < 1159823578 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp(a+ib) = e^a * (cos b + i sin b) < 1159823681 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp(z) = sum [ z^n / factorial n | n <- [0..]], IIRC < 1159823700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1159823858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, when a is positive, then ln a can be taken as the unique real solution. < 1159823889 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1159823890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a^x = exp(x*ln a) is uniquely defined for all complex x. < 1159823915 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1159823957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when using exponentiation one needs to be careful about what numbers are involved. no wonder Haskell provides threee different versions... < 1159823995 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ois more of an efficiency thing, surely? < 1159824016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably not for that reason. it has to do with type classes < 1159824254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see, a^x requires x to be a positive integer < 1159824282 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ^^ x allows x negative, a must be of a type with division < 1159824409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a ** x is for floating numbers, real or complex. Haskell doesn't seem to have any special case for a positive. < 1159824493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that for real floating types, a ** x probably gives an error if a negative. < 1159824560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enough of haskell. for the real mathematical stuff, to sum up: < 1159824620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ^ x is well defined if either a is positive real, _or_ x is an integer. otherwise it has multiple complex values. < 1159824683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and if a is 0, then x must be a non-negative integer, period. < 1159824705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive, i mean < 1159825004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been working on updating the BFM to C compiler to match modern-day, truly Turing complete BFM. . . < 1159825031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for complex code, it seems a whee bit broken. < 1159825204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the resulting C code *seems* to be correct. < 1159825211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it quite obviously *isn't*. < 1159825247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously? < 1159825300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When uncompress.bfm, a program which has worked correctly for all incarnations of BFM so far, fails to work, I call something "broken". < 1159825390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a reasonable conclusion < 1159829500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1159830259 0 :anonfunc!n=pimaniac@132.241.174.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1159831186 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-50-81.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1159831214 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1159831219 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-50-81.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1159831611 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1159831670 0 :anonfunc!n=pimaniac@132.241.174.67 JOIN :#esoteric < 1159832223 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1159833341 0 :GregorR-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection