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09:51:29 <SimonRC> Hotel Echo Lima Lima Oscar
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12:03:43 <SimonRC> hi *2
12:04:01 <wooby> hello
12:04:53 <wooby> what is crackin
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18:14:04 <SimonRC> lol: Someone on Slashdot lists bundling TCP/IP connectivity with the OS as a reason to dislike MS.  Duh!    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=198669&cid=16278447
18:15:24 <GregorR-W> >_O
18:15:31 <GregorR-W> And instead you should use, what, DOS?
18:21:01 <oerjan> why, you should of course whistle into the modem.
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18:47:15 * pikhq would be pissed if a TCP/IP stack weren't part of the *kernel*. . .
18:47:23 <pikhq> GregorR-W: Windows 3.1. :p
18:50:21 * SimonRC wants more stuff in Userland
18:50:35 <SimonRC> preferrably the boot monitor too.
18:50:38 <SimonRC> ;-)
18:51:54 * SimonRC goes to eat dinner
18:53:05 * GregorR-W hands SimonRC GNU/Hurd
18:53:07 <GregorR-W> Enjoy.
19:35:04 <calamari> you can do tcp/ip from dos :)
19:40:47 <GregorR-W> calamari: But it's not bundled with the OS, that was the point.
19:41:06 <calamari> ahh well then that proves that dos is the ultimate os
19:42:06 <calamari> real mode ftw
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20:33:00 <SimonRC> For those of you who haven't seen it, a pathalogical language:   http://home.inreach.com/sl2120/Ithkuil/index.htm
20:36:18 <SimonRC> Speaking it may be considered analogous to programming by writing gzipped binaries using a text editor.
20:38:21 <SimonRC> on second thoughts...
20:38:36 <SimonRC> Speaking it may be considered analogous to programming by writing gzipped Malbolge using a text editor.
20:40:34 <SimonRC> Typical quote from the grammar:   "The PARTITIVE case is marked by Series G vocalic mutation of the stem along with Grade 3 mutation of the C2 radical consonant."
20:41:58 * oerjan thinks you exaggerate a bit
20:42:40 <oerjan> gzip compression is, as far as I know, non-local.
20:43:09 <oerjan> and mutations are not unusual in ordinary human languages
20:43:38 <oerjan> consider just the english: sing, sang, sung
20:44:24 <oerjan> but i assume ithkuil is a _bit_ denser than usual :)
20:44:32 <SimonRC> you could say that
20:45:27 <oerjan> btw i used to subscribe to the conlang mailing list so i may be damaged already...
20:46:16 <oerjan> never got around to fleshing out my own languages though - about the same situation as with my esolangs
20:47:20 * oerjan dances a little procrastination dance
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20:55:20 <oerjan> who was that lambda?
20:59:22 <CakeProphet> So... math people...
20:59:25 <CakeProphet> tell me what's wrong with this:
20:59:34 * oerjan rubs his hands
21:01:30 <CakeProphet> i^2 = -1
21:01:32 <CakeProphet> i^6 = i^2 * i^2 * i^2
21:01:33 <CakeProphet> i^6 = -1 * -1 * -1
21:01:35 <CakeProphet> i^6 = -1
21:01:36 <CakeProphet> i^2 = i^6
21:01:38 <CakeProphet> 2 = 6
21:02:07 <SimonRC> everything is correct up to the last line
21:02:21 <CakeProphet> WHy would it be wrong?
21:02:33 <oerjan> indeed, i^4 = 1.
21:02:56 <oerjan> for the same reason that (-1)^2 = 1^2 does not imply -1 = 1
21:03:18 <CakeProphet> *shakes head*
21:03:22 <CakeProphet> Different thing
21:03:26 <lindi-> no it isn't
21:03:28 <oerjan> not really
21:03:51 <oerjan> exponentiation is not one-to-one in either argument
21:03:53 <SimonRC> they are both cases of no-thingumy functions
21:04:10 <lindi-> no-thingumy?
21:04:21 <CakeProphet> Right there... I'm using the whole   if a^y = a^x  then y = x
21:04:22 <SimonRC> I can't recall the term
21:04:39 <CakeProphet> (-1)^2 = 1^2   has different bases.
21:05:16 <oerjan> well, that implication does not hold unless a is positive and x,y are real
21:05:25 <lindi-> CakeProphet: maybe a is defined for all real numbers in your case :)
21:05:33 <CakeProphet> Ah.
21:05:50 <CakeProphet> Could be.
21:06:05 <lindi-> and think about 1^5 = 1^3
21:06:08 <CakeProphet> damn you imaginaries... always leaving me inable-to-prove-2-equals-6
21:06:25 <lindi-> so i guess a > "
21:06:26 <lindi-> so i guess a > 2
21:06:29 <lindi-> so i guess a >= 2
21:06:30 <oerjan> indeed, if a is complex and x not an integer, then a^x is usually considered to have multiple values
21:07:46 <CakeProphet> If it were true.. it would only be a matter of time before you could prove that a number equals every other number.
21:08:22 <lindi-> indeed you must not see ^ as a function in that context
21:08:40 <lindi-> it's just a shorthand for expressing solutions of an equation
21:09:58 <oerjan> let's see...
21:10:53 <oerjan> ln (a^x) = x* ln(a)
21:11:32 <oerjan> where ln is not a function either in this context, but just a solution to exp(ln x)=x
21:12:19 <oerjan> however, exp is a function.
21:12:58 <SimonRC> indeed it is
21:12:58 <oerjan> exp(a+ib) = e^a * (cos b + i sin b)
21:14:41 <SimonRC> exp(z) = sum [ z^n / factorial n | n <- [0..]], IIRC
21:15:00 <oerjan> yes.
21:17:38 <oerjan> now, when a is positive, then ln a can be taken as the unique real solution.
21:18:09 <SimonRC> yup
21:18:10 <oerjan> and then a^x = exp(x*ln a) is uniquely defined for all complex x.
21:18:35 <SimonRC> cool
21:19:17 <oerjan> so when using exponentiation one needs to be careful about what numbers are involved. no wonder Haskell provides threee different versions...
21:19:55 <SimonRC> that ois more of an efficiency thing, surely?
21:20:16 <oerjan> although probably not for that reason. it has to do with type classes
21:24:14 <oerjan> let's see, a^x requires x to be a positive integer
21:24:42 <oerjan> a ^^ x allows x negative, a must be of a type with division
21:26:49 <oerjan> and a ** x is for floating numbers, real or complex. Haskell doesn't seem to have any special case for a positive.
21:28:13 <oerjan> except that for real floating types, a ** x probably gives an error if a negative.
21:29:20 <oerjan> but enough of haskell. for the real mathematical stuff, to sum up:
21:30:20 <oerjan> a ^ x is well defined if either a is positive real, _or_ x is an integer. otherwise it has multiple complex values.
21:31:23 <oerjan> oh, and if a is 0, then x must be a non-negative integer, period.
21:31:45 <oerjan> positive, i mean
21:36:44 * pikhq has been working on updating the BFM to C compiler to match modern-day, truly Turing complete BFM. . .
21:37:11 <pikhq> And, for complex code, it seems a whee bit broken.
21:40:04 <pikhq> And the resulting C code *seems* to be correct.
21:40:11 <pikhq> Of course, it quite obviously *isn't*.
21:40:47 <oerjan> obviously?
21:41:40 <pikhq> When uncompress.bfm, a program which has worked correctly for all incarnations of BFM so far, fails to work, I call something "broken".
21:43:10 <oerjan> sounds like a reasonable conclusion
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