00:00:13 <pikhq> Mmkay. . . Before I start; anyone *else* care?'
00:00:31 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: you are interested arn't you?
00:01:00 <pikhq> oerjan: Feel free to discuss it, too; you're the other person who understands it right now. :p
00:01:10 <jix> but let me solve this rubics cube first....
00:01:26 <pikhq> If you don't get it in 3 minutes, I'll smack you upside the head.
00:01:40 <pikhq> In the meantime, I'll solve mine, too.
00:03:11 <jix> pikhq: you too?
00:03:57 <pikhq> Let's start, then.
00:04:19 <pikhq> First, we've got the commands that allow BFM to be Brainfuck complete. . .
00:04:30 <pikhq> add variable number
00:04:47 <jix> variable number?
00:05:04 <oerjan> add <variable> <number>
00:05:14 <jix> uhm and what is variable?
00:05:17 <pikhq> Sorry; should be less vague.
00:05:32 <pikhq> Adds <number> to <variable>. . .
00:05:46 <pikhq> subtract <variable> <number>
00:05:54 <pikhq> Self-explanitory from that.
00:05:54 <jix> yeah but what can variable be?
00:06:02 <pikhq> @ <variable> <location>
00:06:20 <pikhq> Declares a variable <variable> at <location> in the Brainfuck memory.
00:06:37 <pikhq> (a variable "current" is automatically declared)
00:07:10 <pikhq> current just means that the operation acts on the current location in the Brainfuck memory.
00:07:27 <pikhq> Moves right <number> in the Brainfuck memory.
00:07:40 <pikhq> Same, except s/right/left/.
00:07:48 <jix> wont it get quite confused when one tries to write moving code?
00:08:17 <oerjan> yes. it is wise to use only the current variable in combination with right/left.
00:08:22 <pikhq> Tells the compiler that the current location is the <variable>'s location.
00:08:47 <pikhq> It's not merely wise, it's the only thing you can do sanely.
00:09:11 <pikhq> while <variable> {<code>}
00:09:16 <oerjan> and then you use at to switch back to known positions
00:09:23 <pikhq> While <variable>!=0, execute <code>.
00:09:49 <pikhq> set <variable> <number>
00:09:53 <jix> are the macros written for wrapping code or for nonwrapping?
00:10:19 <pikhq> Pretty much the same as "while <variable> {subtract <variable> 1};add <variable> <number>".
00:10:48 <pikhq> So, that's it for pure Brainfuck equivalency. . .
00:11:03 <oerjan> the stdlib assumes wrapping. the base commands might work in either way
00:11:07 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: I've not done an array macro yet.
00:11:39 <pikhq> So, we've got a few more commands left. . .
00:11:43 <RodgerTheGreat> since they'd amount to a datatype, rather than a function, it might be best to make them part of the spec.
00:11:59 <pikhq> Tells the compiler that <variable>=0.
00:12:13 <pikhq> Same, except <variable>!=0.
00:12:34 <jix> does is0 produce code to set variable = 0 or tells it only the compiler...
00:13:14 <pikhq> jix: Only tells the compiler, so the compiler won't set it to 0 again (when it's optimizing). . . Those two commands are only needed if the compiler's assumptions are wrong.
00:13:47 <pikhq> They do nothing when you've not enabled optimization.
00:14:01 <pikhq> And one last command:
00:14:07 * jix is thinking of implementing some highlevel lang using bfm as backend
00:14:31 <pikhq> macro <name> {<input>} {<output>} {<temp>} {<code>}
00:15:05 <pikhq> Declares a macro <name>, which executes <code>, with <input>, <output>, and <temp> as arguments.
00:15:13 <pikhq> A macro would be called as follows:
00:15:28 <pikhq> <name> <input> > <output> : <temp>
00:16:01 <pikhq> (the seperation of arguments into input, output, and temp are just to make code calling the macro easier to understand)
00:16:18 <oerjan> <input> <output> and <temp> can each contain several variables
00:16:51 <pikhq> The > and : are only needed when you've got output or temp arguments.
00:17:24 <oerjan> btw pikhq i noticed that there is currently no way to have only output and temp arguments
00:17:32 <pikhq> Argh; forgot a handful of commands.
00:17:45 <pikhq> oerjan: Need to fix that.
00:18:00 <pikhq> Takes input, and puts it into <variable>.
00:18:10 <pikhq> Outputs <variable>.
00:18:28 <pikhq> Executes the code in <file>.
00:19:02 <pikhq> (^ is replaced with the location of the stdlib macro library)
00:19:37 <pikhq> A comment block (when the compiler isn't told to strip this, it gets sent with the output).
00:19:46 <pikhq> That's all, I believe.
00:19:56 <pikhq> Unless you want an exhaustive spec of the macros in stdlib?
00:20:05 <jix> pikhq: no i don't
00:20:21 <pikhq> Good; I'm not willing to talk about those right now.
00:20:44 <jix> hmm i have a feature suggestion.... tool <some_tool_in_path> <arg1> <arg2> <arg3> and the stdout of the tool gets inserted into the code
00:20:57 <oerjan> the macros in stdlib are in any case good to read to see how to code in the language
00:22:23 <pikhq> (the compiler may act oddly on code that's nonstandard, so don't do it!)
00:23:04 <oerjan> what do you mean by nonstandard?
00:23:30 <pikhq> while [variable] ("[ Wheee! ]') {code}
00:24:07 <pikhq> (I *think* that would make the compiler vomit on your terminal)
00:24:21 <jix> let's try that
00:24:49 <oerjan> so nonstandard = syntax error
00:25:16 <jix> only 15 lines
00:25:48 <jix> i called the interpreter wrong
00:26:02 <pikhq> ./bfm --file file.bfm > file.b
00:26:08 <jix> why --file?
00:26:18 <pikhq> Or: ./bfm --file file.bfm --strip 1 --optimize 1 > file.b
00:26:29 <pikhq> Haven't bothered getting the command line parser done right.
00:33:56 <jix> is it possible to pass numbers as arguments to macros?
00:35:28 <pikhq> Only variables, according to the spec; whether it works on the compiler or not is beyond me. . .
00:35:49 * pikhq beats his brain into submission
00:36:03 <oerjan> it could be useful to have numbers too
00:36:26 <pikhq> The question, then, is how to get it integrated into the spec. . .
00:37:49 <pikhq> macro {<input>} {<output>} {<temp>} {<number>} {<code>}?
00:37:57 <oerjan> i should think the compiler already allows it
00:37:59 <pikhq> macro <name> {<input>} {<output>} {<temp>} {<number>} {<code>}, I mean.
00:38:19 <pikhq> Just change the spec, then? :p
00:39:39 <pikhq> Yeah, it does work.
00:39:56 <Asztal> After banging my head against the wall for a while, I think I've got my trefunge instruction wrapping working. Now to test it. :D
00:39:59 <pikhq> Fine; macros can be passed variables or numbers (be careful with this).
00:40:46 <oerjan> for what it's worth you could probably squeeze through {} blocks too i expect
00:42:13 <jix> oerjan: pikhq: GregorR: ihope: everyone else don't forget to submit your statements!
00:42:38 <pikhq> jix: I'm thinking about what they should be.
00:43:09 <oerjan> i am not sure whether to submit what i have or try to improve it
00:43:34 <jix> oerjan: even if you don't have many or some that arn't that funny.... together with the rest they will be
00:43:49 <jix> boring statements are 1000x better than no statements at all
00:44:01 <oerjan> oh they are all somewhat insane
00:44:09 <jix> oerjan: well no problem then
00:44:20 <jix> oerjan: i misread your msg
00:44:30 <pikhq> jix: If you want to see a finished BFM project, http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.tar.bz2 (understanding it could be a bit difficult; sorry).
00:44:42 <jix> i am not sure whether to submit < i thought OH NO!!!> <what i have or try to improve it: i ignored this part>
00:45:15 <pikhq> What's your email again?
00:45:23 <jix> pikhq: jannis@harderweb.de
00:45:56 <jix> thats <my_forename>@<my_surname>web.de easy to remember
00:46:19 <oerjan> pikhq: i think {} blocks can also be macro arguments
00:47:13 <oerjan> after all the macro and while commands essentially work that way
00:47:59 <RodgerTheGreat> http://www.zib.de/zuse/Inhalt/Kommentare/Html/0684/universal2.html <- FOUND IT! This article is fascinating. I mentioned it a few weeks ago, but I didn't want to scan it in from my book for fear of summoning copyright demons.
00:53:00 <pikhq> I've got 3 commands so far. . .
00:53:22 <pikhq> I think you'll laugh hysterically at them. ;)
00:53:58 <RodgerTheGreat> "The result shown in this paper seems counterintuitive, until we realize that operations like multiplication and division are iterative computations in which branching decisions are taken by the hardware."
00:54:04 <RodgerTheGreat> "The conditional branchings we need are embedded in these arithmetical operations and the whole purpose of the transformations used is to lift the branches up from the hardware in which they are buried to the software level, so that we can control the program flow. The whole magic of the transformation consists in making the hardware branchings visible to the programmer."
01:05:08 * pikhq has sent off his entry
01:05:21 <pikhq> jix: Feel free to laugh as soon as you see my entry.
01:06:25 <jix> i'll wait with looking at them until the deadline
01:06:31 <jix> will be more fun to read them all at once
01:06:52 <pikhq> You'll get a kick out of mine, I assure you.
01:07:16 <jix> i hope we get a lot of funny and incompatible syntax ^^
01:08:11 <pikhq> Mine has three syntax types in it.
01:08:31 <jix> mine doesn't really has syntax it's just nargh i can't explain without showing them....
01:08:49 <jix> you could say mine has 15 types of syntax or so ^^
01:09:29 <pikhq> Got a bit over 21 hours to go.
01:10:03 <jix> oh and if someone hasn't 15 statements yet and thinks ah this one really has to go in you can submit a 2nd mail
01:10:06 <pikhq> It *is* 01:09 UTC, right?
01:10:12 <jix> pikhq: dunno
01:10:23 <jix> pikhq: i was on some website that had an uhm dunno what clock
01:10:37 <jix> i allways fuck up times between time zones :|
01:11:05 * pikhq only submitted 8 (4 of which were defined in terms of the others). . .
01:11:08 <jix> 00:10:39 gmt sais this side
01:11:43 <pikhq> 22 hours, then (thought I was in UTC-7, not UTC-6; damn you, daylight savings time!).
01:13:07 <jix> i'm 2 hours ahead of gmt now but 1 hour ahead when the other daylight saving state is....
01:16:35 <pikhq> Anyone else care to submit?
01:16:40 <pikhq> We need your evil ideas.
01:16:51 <jix> well there is plenty of time left... i just wanted to remember everyone
01:17:09 <jix> and i expect GregorR to submit ideas... he always has good ideas....
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01:17:30 <jix> GregorR: whatis?
01:17:35 <GregorR> Do you have anything resembl---oh right, you're not reading it.
01:17:54 <GregorR> How about basic guidelines for statement structure? How can we submit statements if we don't know what a statement looks like :P
01:18:03 <GregorR> line-separated? ;-separated?
01:18:07 <jix> GregorR: well it can be anything!
01:18:13 <jix> just come up with something
01:18:23 <jix> might be that your particular statement needs a ; and some others don't
01:18:44 <pikhq> Razor-X: How's judging going on the contest?
01:18:56 <jix> GregorR: well if you need variables just use them
01:19:00 <jix> there will be variables then
01:19:04 <jix> if you want a tape.... just use it
01:19:10 <jix> same for stack / whatever
01:19:12 <GregorR> But if there are only variables in two statements, that's sort of ridiculous :P
01:19:47 <jix> of course there will be a way to swap data between tape/variables if needed etc.... but that's part of the 2nd round...
01:19:50 <pikhq> One thing we'll have is the hardest to implement language ever.
01:20:15 * pikhq has a tape, stack, *and* variables used by his statements. . .
01:20:39 <pikhq> My statements alone also provide for Turing completeness.
01:21:06 <jix> hmm i dunne but i think mine would too
01:21:26 <jix> i hope we get nondeterminism somehow
01:23:36 <GregorR> How many am I supposed to do?
01:23:59 <jix> GregorR: between 5 and 15
01:25:45 * pikhq feels that this language is going to be really hard to parse
01:26:00 <GregorR> I have no intention of helping with that
01:26:49 * pikhq drags you into that
01:28:31 <jix> i'm sure there wont be a compiler for the language
01:29:13 <jix> i'm sure i should go into bed now
01:30:55 <pikhq> It's a requirement. ;p
01:31:18 <pikhq> (at least, an implementation is required)
01:34:32 <jix> GregorR: yes to my email address
01:34:49 <jix> GregorR: but you have a few ours left....
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01:49:56 * Sgeo doesn't know if he should use the incoming table for computations etc
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02:47:48 <Sgeo_> <palomer> a programming language based on lojban would be fun!
02:49:10 * Sgeo_ has a lot of ideas for MKBL
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02:52:18 <pikhq> Language based on Lojban. . . Craziness.
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03:02:03 <pikhq> PROGRAMMER ERROR: /dev/coffee is out. Refill mug.
03:03:01 <Sgeo_> Answer: 102475441987519000200272610048162721086802501989166604512727563935541058327937254889964982197984476266496
03:03:43 <pikhq> PROGRAMMER ERROR: I don't interperet math until it's RPN or sexp.
03:05:28 <Sgeo_> PROGRAMMER ERROR: Unwanted terseness
03:06:00 <pikhq> (I (not (do)) (want (to)) .)
03:06:27 <Sgeo_> 404 File Not Found
03:06:44 <pikhq> IRP ERROR: IRP shutting down.
03:07:07 <pikhq> !EgoBot will take care of your needs.
03:07:09 * EgoBot will take care of your needs.
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03:10:29 <pikhq> IRP> programmers: Please echo "/ignore TehCommando".
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03:30:00 <Sgeo> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/MKBL-LN
03:30:34 <Sgeo> It's a start of a spec
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03:39:31 <Asztal> PROGRAMMER IS OVERLY POLITE.
03:42:15 <Sgeo> Any comments on MKBL-LN so far?
03:51:45 <pikhq> Participate in language design.
04:02:05 <Razor-X> I feel like playing around with ASM and Forth instead of implementing SLUMTP.
04:02:43 <pikhq> Razor-X: Have you even *looked* at the entries for the contest yet?
04:02:47 <pikhq> It's been nearly a month.
04:03:11 <Razor-X> But I mean, the committee has not convened.
04:03:25 <pikhq> The contest has been *over* for a month; the commitee should've convened weeks ago. -_-'
04:03:45 <Razor-X> Well, I just got un-busy technically yesterday.
04:04:01 <Razor-X> I'm not sure where everyone else has been.
04:04:13 <Razor-X> GregorR is bantering less than usual too :(
04:04:47 <GregorR> Gregor + 19 credit hours + 20 work hours = foo
04:05:15 <Razor-X> Committee! Meet in ##quantum in 24 hours!
04:05:32 <GregorR> I'll be in class in 24 hrs.
04:07:57 <GregorR> I'll be on my way home in 25 hrs :P
04:08:35 <Razor-X> Hooray geeks with no lives!
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04:53:07 <Sgeo> No comments on MKBL-LN?
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05:34:28 <RodgerTheGreat> hey, Razor-X- I finished the spec for "synthesys" http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1161556217.html
06:24:21 <Razor-X> RodgerTheGreat: Lemme take a looksee.
06:24:48 <Razor-X> Also, are you free to meet for the first of probably many judging meetings next Saturday?
06:28:44 <RodgerTheGreat> I then refer to them by their order, [1] being first, [2] second and so on.
06:30:12 <Razor-X> I don't mean to be a pain or anything, but you might want to dry a small Stack drawing.
06:30:37 <Razor-X> Or use Forth style comments.
06:30:46 <RodgerTheGreat> I plan on making a more nicely formatted and better explained version of the spec soon.
06:32:05 <Razor-X> So @ pop's the first two things off the stack?
06:32:33 <Razor-X> Concat made it make sense, heh.
06:33:15 <Razor-X> Are you sure you don't want to make + pop [1], push [1] + 1 ?
06:34:27 <RodgerTheGreat> well, that might be a better way to explain it, but remember- all variables are essentially strings. I wanted to make it clear that + and - operate on the first (or only) character of a string.
06:38:34 <Razor-X> Well, that would be different behavior.
06:38:53 <Razor-X> Because you could have |'a'|'b'| then a +, and you would have |'b'|'b'| right?
06:39:12 <Razor-X> The version I proposed would be mork ``stack-ish'' is all I meant to say.
06:39:47 <Razor-X> Because Synthesis would be trivial to implement on any stack based device.
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06:40:49 <RodgerTheGreat> to a degree. # and : are what make it very powerful, and % is a convenient feature.
06:41:17 <RodgerTheGreat> the stack is more of a means to an end- they make it extremely easy to create long chains of function calls.
06:42:16 <Razor-X> : is the super operator ;D
06:43:07 <RodgerTheGreat> : allows programmers to create functions that contain functions, and so on easily, as string literals are an essential to declaring functions.
06:43:32 <RodgerTheGreat> and the fact that functions are themselves strings makes it trivially easy to make use of self-modifying code- just change the string.
06:43:45 <Razor-X> Hmm... can you demonstrate a function for me?
06:44:49 <RodgerTheGreat> will add together the contents of a and b (or the first characters)
06:47:49 <RodgerTheGreat> if I wanted a function that contained said function, I could do 'fun' "'sum' X[-~+~],X@":@
06:49:07 <Razor-X> Is there any required length for the stack?
06:49:47 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. There's none required, but I should probably define one in the spec as a "minimum expected size".
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06:53:01 <RodgerTheGreat> well, I need to get some sleep soon- calc class tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions for tweaks and modifications, just let me know. If you feel so inclined, I would be honored if you helped me write the standard library.
06:53:31 <Razor-X> Do you have an implementation for it done, or would you want me to do one?
06:53:56 <RodgerTheGreat> I have one in the works, but a second one would be awesome!
06:54:21 <Razor-X> What would you like to see in stdlib?
06:55:08 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm not sure yet- math functions and more complex string/number/etc manipulation and conversion seem like they would be the most useful.
06:55:41 <RodgerTheGreat> I think passing code segments as arguments might make it possible to synthesize flow control like case... select statements and the like.
06:56:30 <Razor-X> If you want to make a few modifications to the spec to make it conform just a bit more to the architecture, I think you'll have a great low-level language.
06:57:08 <Razor-X> Because it already seems like a great abstraction of the machine.
06:57:38 <RodgerTheGreat> well, good night... er... good morning. I'd be fascinated to discuss this in more detail later.
06:57:53 <Razor-X> I may or may not have an implementation done by tonight.
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13:20:04 <EgoBot> 1 EgoBot: daemon EgoBot reload
13:20:07 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR-L: daemon cat bf
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19:08:32 <GregorR-L> Time for NAME THAT FAMOUS PASSAGE!
19:08:36 <GregorR-L> This, _ duration, it goes out and duration, it goes out and age information quite bad us it goes out bevoegheid hope this, it goes out and and and seasonal datum darkness this, it goes out and and and the seasonal datum light this, it goes out and and and and seasonal datum disbelievingness this, it goes out and and and and and seasonal datum it believes and and and and and this, to go out the age idiotic thing this, it goes out and and and and and a
19:08:37 <GregorR-L> nd many winter d3esespoir, me that us sky of oneself it goes immediately, thing because of us is going out from this and and me us who are going out hazard anything us who are not, us me which am the possibility of doing to go out me all, it is a B to go out and it fixes and compared to this me which recover, different method -goes out and the en brevity which it talks, I discover a duration by now
19:09:05 <GregorR-L> This passage has been translated: English->French->Dutch->English->German->English->Greek->English->Korean->English
19:09:25 <GregorR-L> You guess the original passage (I don't need the exact words, just the context), and you win!
19:10:19 <Asztal> "and and and and and" :/
19:10:46 <jix> GregorR-L: you read my statements!
19:11:06 <jix> you'll see in a few hours...
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19:11:47 <Asztal> I really have no idea what that bastardised passage may be :
19:12:01 <GregorR-L> At 11:21 I'll drop one translation :P
19:12:10 <jix> time zone?
19:13:42 <Asztal> How does it manage to get numbers inside of words
19:16:13 <GregorR-L> I think when Korean gets stripped off somebody may guess it :P
19:16:35 <jix> is the text know outside of english speaking countries?
19:16:52 <GregorR-L> I can't guarantee that it is, but I can't imagine that it isn't - it permeates the fabric of society :P
19:17:13 <pikhq> I think it's a biblical quote.
19:17:33 <pikhq> I think I give up for now.
19:17:36 <GregorR-L> Almost time to strip off Korean :P
19:17:46 <GregorR-L> _ this I am better than the period, I am more very bad from the period, this I am the age intelligence, this I am the age the idiot thing, this I am the season the faith, this I am the season the disbelievingness, this I am the season the light, this I am the season dark, this I am bevoegheid hope, this I am the a lot of winter dsespoir, because us ours I have, we I have I have nothing for us, we I can I am I am all, that I go immediately our own s
19:17:46 <GregorR-L> ky, I am all, that I align the other way - en brevity I say, I find period up to now
19:18:01 <Asztal> I thought given all the talk about seasons/datums it may be a 1) scientist 2) philosopher
19:18:44 <GregorR-L> I don't know WHERE THE HELL the word 'datum' came from XD
19:18:47 <pikhq> Um. . . War and Peace?
19:19:22 <pikhq> Could've *sworn* that was the first page or so of War and Peace.
19:19:53 <GregorR-L> If you think you recognize the quote itself, just give some of the quote, regardless of context.
19:19:54 <pikhq> (although I may have the wrong !%$# book. . . "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. . .", right?)
19:20:17 <Asztal> oh my, that really is butchered
19:20:26 <pikhq> Wrong. Damned. Book.
19:21:00 <GregorR-L> Let us continue stripping off languages until it becomes the recognized quote.
19:21:14 <GregorR-L> The next one is an important one, as the tense is destroyed here (Greek):
19:21:18 <jix> but do it in a fast run..
19:21:18 <GregorR-L> It was best from the periods, was most badly from the periods, it was the age of intelligence, it was the age of the stupid thing, it was the era of the faith, it was the era of the disbelievingness, it was the season of the light, it was the season of Obscurity, it was bevoegheid hope, it was the winter of dsespoir, much for us ours had, we has had nothing for us, we could be been everything, that go directly to the sky, ours was everything, which
19:21:18 <GregorR-L> line the other way - briefly said does, the found period so far
19:21:56 <GregorR-L> He was best of the periods, was worst of the periods, he was the age of wisdom, he was the age of the silly thing, he was the era of the belief, he was the era of incredulity, he was the season of light, he was the season of obscurity, he was the bevoegheid of the hope, he was the winter of dsespoir, a lot for us our has had, we have had nothing for us, us let us be everything that to the sky go directly, our were everything doing lead the other ma
19:21:56 <GregorR-L> nner - in short, the period found so far as
19:22:01 <jix> i want the german text...
19:22:13 <GregorR-L> Er war von den Perioden am besten, war am schlechtesten von den Perioden, er
19:22:13 <GregorR-L> war das Alter von Klugheit, er war das Alter der dummen Sache, er war die ra
19:22:13 <GregorR-L> des Glaubens, er war die ra der Unglubigkeit, er war die Jahreszeit des
19:22:13 <GregorR-L> Lichtes, er war die Jahreszeit von Obscurity, er war das bevoegheid der
19:22:13 <GregorR-L> Hoffnung, er war der Winter von dsespoir, viel fr uns unsere hat gehabt, wir
19:22:16 <GregorR-L> hat gehabt nichts fr uns, wir lie uns sein alles, die zum Himmel direkt
19:22:18 <GregorR-L> gehen, unser war alles, der Leitung die andere Weise - kurz gesagt tut, die
19:22:43 <GregorR-L> That last English one is after Dutch+French
19:22:45 <Asztal> And french converted "it" to "he"?
19:23:06 <GregorR-L> One of French and Dutch - there's no English between them, so Idonno :P
19:23:10 <jix> " er war der Winter von désespoir" << after this part it get's really screwed up
19:23:27 <jix> well in frensh there is no it... onle he and she
19:23:39 <jix> even things are either male or female...
19:23:42 <Asztal> I really wonder what Hungarian could do to it
19:23:50 <Asztal> but I've never found a translator
19:23:53 <GregorR-L> I don't think Babelfish has Hungarian :P
19:24:01 <jix> ok next round...
19:24:05 <GregorR-L> Somebody else's turn: I recommend English->French->Dutch->English->German->English->Greek->English->Korean->English
19:24:12 <Asztal> it would at least destroy all the gender
19:24:22 <jix> but i'll use a different lang order
19:24:32 <jix> gimme some time i have to find obscure translators...
19:24:44 <jix> i had one with cool languages a few hours ago...
19:25:22 <jix> but it was the only one i found that had swedish
19:25:40 <jix> oh and it allows <anylang> => <anylang>
19:25:48 <jix> not only english <=> <anylang>
19:26:06 <GregorR-L> Though that probably means there's a fairly destructive internal representation ;)
19:26:07 <jix> but i will revert to english at least every 2 langs so i can drop steps
19:27:21 <jix> found a good text
19:29:18 <jix> :( it fails from korean => english... i think i have to insert an extra space to avoid it stopping translation
19:30:04 <jix> it doesn't work from there on...
19:30:09 <jix> i have to use another translator there
19:31:02 <jix> nargh i have to use korean at a later stage...
19:31:05 <jix> it doesn't work there
19:31:35 <Asztal> this doesn't sound good for our chances of guessing it ;)
19:31:41 <jix> haha arabic ^^
19:31:41 <GregorR-L> Maybe I should do another one while you're doing that X-P
19:32:28 <jix> haha that really made it ridiculous
19:34:08 <jix> nargh the korean of that page doesn't work
19:35:06 <jix> haha japanese made it really cool
19:39:10 <jix> ok the chain is english => swedish => arabic => english => german => japanese => english => trad. chinese => russian => english => greek => english => french => english
19:39:33 <jix> i made it that long so i can drop a few times before someone recognizing it
19:39:38 <jix> here it comes:
19:39:38 <jix> Today, we are handle decreased the daily newspaper of the first boat splendourful, [[“iynfwrm' ayshnsbwryfyk' ayshndyrktyfn]]. This traction outside of ours street, initially examined in the team [[hystwryn]], garden, request for divine the blessings the clean dish. [“ammnt] the truth causes complexes [[, the jam of the pain of the mwtsGnd]] with the all workmen, when it flowers. Us it country of the family of the state of the family of the idea
19:39:39 <jix> of the connection of the troops of knowledge of arm that it is him is very important. Racingism us 1, is used, the solution and reason. [ytkllmbnfsy] our enemy with the cube, it buries, a la confusion, in which finds will be specially anxious you will be our these. We obtain profit!
19:40:20 <jix> GregorR-L: got an idea?
19:40:23 <GregorR-L> A hint: Is "newspaper" anywhere in the original?
19:40:37 <jix> GregorR-L: you gave no hints
19:40:53 <jix> i wont give hints that early...
19:42:00 <jix> uh i didn't looked at the time
19:42:26 <jix> i'll decrease every 5 mins ok?
19:42:47 <jix> anyone else guessing?
19:42:56 <jix> pikhq: are you guessin?
19:43:25 <jix> GregorR-L: any idea?
19:44:44 <GregorR-L> Asztal glommed on to "racingism" :P
19:44:46 <jix> uhm i don't know
19:45:04 <jix> Asztal: you have to post text as i don't know how this is called it's very famous but i don't know how it is called
19:45:26 <jix> uhm i shall drop a step now
19:45:43 <jix> without french:
19:45:46 <jix> Today, we are decreased joystick the daily newspaper of first splendourful ship, [[“iynfwrm'ayshnsbwryfyk'ayshndyrktyfn]]. This pull outside from ours street, first examined in team [[hystwryn]], garden, prays for divine the benedictions the clean dish. [“ammnt] causes complex truth [[, the jam of pain of mwtsGnd]] with the all workers, when it blooms. Us the country of family of condition of family of idea of connection of troops of arm acquain
19:45:46 <jix> tance it is it is very important. Racingism we 1, is used a, the solution and reason. [ytkllmbnfsy] our enemy to the cube, it buries, has confusion, in which finds will be specially anxious you will be our these. We obtain profit!
19:45:48 <Asztal> http://www.usconstitution.net/dream.html (on second thought, looks nowhere nearÖ
19:46:08 <jix> ah i know that text too but no...
19:46:34 <jix> it's so funny
19:47:18 <jix> i love that part too
19:47:23 <jix> but not only in this step...
19:47:40 <GregorR-L> This pull outside from ours street ...
19:48:41 <Asztal> GregorR-L: I bet half of those words which look like they're probably not too far wrong have been rotated through 720 degrees of wrongness :(
19:49:09 <jix> i can't stop laughing ^^
19:49:21 <jix> it's too hilarious (right word?)
19:49:42 <jix> drop time right?
19:49:59 <jix> let's remove the greek translation
19:50:05 <jix> Today, we is decreased rudder the daily newspaper of the first of splendourful of ship, [[“iynfwrm'ayshnsbwryfyk'ayshndyrktyfn]]. It pull of out from ours road, first considered in the group [[hystwryn]], garden, prays for heavenly of the blessings of golded clean plate. [“ammnt] causes the complication of truth [[, the jam of the pain of mwtsGnd]] with call workers, when it blossoms. Our of the country of the family of the prerequisite of the f
19:50:05 <jix> amily of the idea of the connection of the troops of the weapon of known is one is very important. Racingism we 1, it is utilized will a, the solution and reason. [ytkllmbnfsy] our enemy to the cube, it buries, has confusion, in which finds will be specially anxious you will be our these. We obtain profit!
19:50:23 <jix> rudder => joystick => handle ^^
19:50:42 <GregorR-L> I love how powerful the phrase "We obtain profit!" is
19:51:20 <jix> you have to go to all translations when the original is revealed it's SO FUNNY
19:52:00 <GregorR-L> I get the feeling I won't know this speech :P
19:52:26 <jix> i know it but i woldn't be able to recognize it from this pile of crap ^^
19:55:17 <jix> i dropped greek last?
19:55:30 <jix> ok let's drop russian and trad. chinese now...
19:55:43 <jix> Today, we lower the first splendourful rudder of the daily newspaper, [[“iynfwrm'ayshnsbwryfyk'ayshndyrktyfn]]. Way it pulled up with us, first considers that in the group [[hystwryn]], the garden where blessing is golded plate cleanly. [“ammnt] complicated truth [[, jam of the pain of mwtsGnd]] with all workers when it blooms. Our integrated thought highborn some most important weapons troop of country. Racingism of us 1, using one will, decisi
19:55:43 <jix> on and cause. [ytkllmbnfsy] Our enemies to cube, she buries, there is a disorder of which especially worry whether you become we of those. We obtain the profit!
19:56:40 <jix> i like we obtain profit more... sounds stronger than we obtain the profit....
19:58:43 <jix> and you have NO idea?
19:59:00 <GregorR-L> Every thought I've thought hasn't panned out :P
19:59:57 <jix> ok the last drop comes now...
20:00:06 <Asztal> The word "ship" suddenly disappeared :P
20:00:06 <jix> i shall drop japanese and german
20:00:21 <jix> Today, We lowers the first glorious oar of day from [['iynfwrm'ayshnsbwryfyk'ayshndyrktyfn]]. We created, [[hystwryn]] for he he first to group kept, Gilded garden of blessing clean. ['ammnt] from the pains from [[mwtsGnd]] and confusing truths, Where all laborers can flowered. Our integration the thoughts most important weapon from some highborn or army on land. We racism one, With will one, Decision, One causes. [ytkllmbnfsy] our enemies to dies,
20:00:21 <jix> Buries them we is will with them worry especially confusion. We gains!
20:02:32 <jix> because there is only one step to drop now this'll last for 10 mins
20:04:07 <GregorR-L> If I'm going to recognize the original, this is gonna be a doozy of a translation.
20:04:50 <jix> you have 5 mins left
20:05:12 <jix> you can start to ask for hints now...
20:05:35 <jix> you should...
20:09:45 <jix> i'll post the original word by word
20:09:54 <jix> but don't google for it ...
20:10:10 <jix> we celebrate
20:10:29 <jix> glorious anniversary
20:10:39 <jix> Information Purification Directives.
20:10:52 <GregorR-L> ........ not recognizing this quote at all ............
20:10:52 <jix> (that got [['iynfwrm'ayshnsbwryfyk'ayshndyrktyfn]])
20:11:03 <jix> ok here is it:
20:11:04 <jix> Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology. Where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death an
20:11:04 <jix> d we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail!
20:11:24 <jix> it's from george orwell's 1984
20:11:35 <jix> used in the first apple commercial
20:11:36 <jix> http://www.uriahcarpenter.info/1984.html
20:11:45 <GregorR-L> I don't think I could've dredged that quote up out of my mind X_X
20:12:02 <Asztal> I suspected a Hitler speech
20:12:25 <jix> that would probably not be in english...
20:12:44 <GregorR-L> Exactly why I stopped considering that :P
20:12:56 * SimonRC wonders WTF is going on on here
20:13:09 <GregorR-L> SimonRC: We're playing the "name that famous quote" game.
20:13:17 <jix> GregorR-L: and now go and compare the first with the last one ^^
20:13:25 -!- ihope_ has joined.
20:13:25 <jix> i still don't know where we got the rudder/joytick/handle from
20:13:35 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope.
20:14:04 <jix> anyone has an idea?
20:14:13 <GregorR-L> Not sure if it'll work, but we'll see.
20:14:20 <GregorR-L> Actually, I can't now - lunch first :P
20:14:22 <Asztal> anniversary -> (somehow) Oar of day
20:29:14 -!- jix has left (?).
20:29:19 -!- jix has joined.
20:30:28 -!- Arrogant has joined.
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21:13:14 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:14:55 <Sgeo> My new ideas for MKBL-LN:
21:15:21 <Sgeo> use a row of memory to store the current time
21:16:10 <Sgeo> Use numbers for branches
21:18:43 <dbc> No it's not from George Orwell's 1984.
21:19:41 <dbc> The quote jix posted earlier.
21:19:58 <jix> but the site sais so....
21:20:44 <jix> is it just made up for that apple commercial?
21:20:51 <dbc> It is from Apple's commercial, which in turn was inspired by that book.
21:21:05 <jix> i thought it was a quote out of that book that was used in the commercial
21:21:59 <jix> nah i was wrong then...
21:23:13 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving").
21:24:04 <RodgerTheGreat> I have a multiple-translation challenge. This one is a backronym in sentence form. Full points for the original sentence, half for just the acronym.
21:24:16 <RodgerTheGreat> "The majority of the uses that push if In., the system if operating will be connected."
21:29:38 <GregorR-L> The system ... if operating ... will be connected.
21:30:34 <RodgerTheGreat> I meant, do you want the next version of the sentence?
21:30:54 <RodgerTheGreat> Most of the uses they push if no, the operating system is connected.
21:31:49 <Sgeo> When the MKBL-LN specs are settled a bit, I'm going to give a tutorial in here
21:33:10 <RodgerTheGreat> a phrase that was not the cause for a name but (often humourously) describes a name.
21:33:20 <GregorR-L> Nonono, I know what a backronym is :-P
21:33:41 <GregorR-L> OH, that's not a backronym you idjit >_<
21:33:56 <GregorR-L> Backronym = you decide the name first, then you make an acronym to fit it.
21:34:18 <RodgerTheGreat> I assume this means you give up and want the next version.
21:34:32 <RodgerTheGreat> Most applications push if not, the operating system are connected.
21:37:17 <Asztal> the only thing I can guess is that "if not" was "unless" :P
21:37:26 <RodgerTheGreat> Most applications crash- if not, the operating system hangs.
21:37:30 <RodgerTheGreat> M--- A----------- C----- I- N-- T-- O-------- S----- H----.
21:37:42 <GregorR-L> See, I wouldn't have gotten that, because I've never heard that.
21:42:45 <GregorR-L> _ It celebrates the point which spreads out and 7 years it has and left it inside the new person in order good season this continent our fathers it undergoes,: Program it does inside the demand where the cause which hazard gets up the freedom which it commits and the total pasting individual becomes. Inside civilian making war where we are big now it was reported, that the broad way person examination one program does the appear person and all to be
21:42:45 <GregorR-L> doing inevitably it inaugurates inevitably quite to bring. Us inside big fighting we whom it meets touch from this warfare.
21:43:06 <GregorR-L> This one may be too easy, but we'll see.
21:45:49 <Sgeo> tomem[branch:I,time:I,subtimer:I,memrow:I,memcol,table:S,tbranch:I,ttime:I,tsubtimer:I,field:I]
21:46:12 <RodgerTheGreat> ah, christ. I read that as a series of translations at first.
21:46:15 <GregorR-L> Eng->Fra->Dutch->Eng->Ger->Eng->Greek->Eng->Kor->Eng
21:47:39 <Asztal> I don't have a clue >_<
21:48:13 <Sgeo> tomem[0,42,0,1,3,"incoming",0,41,0,0]
21:48:17 <GregorR-L> Eng->Fra->Dutch->Eng->Ger->Eng->Greek->Eng->
21:48:19 <GregorR-L> Eng->Fra->Dutch->Eng->Ger->Eng->Greek->Eng
21:48:24 <GregorR-L> _ you celebrate point and seven year in order to it suffers it left our father in the new persons of these continents to take: committed programmed in the freedom and in the demand, which is caused for all right the individuals. Now we were reported in a big civilian war, that examines as these persons or consequently programs all the likely persons and consequently inaugurated can bring very. We are met in a big battle in order to we touch from this
21:48:25 <Sgeo> All just to read in a character that was input
21:48:40 <Sgeo> Anyone think the language is a bit too complicated already?
21:49:05 <GregorR-L> I want to see where "suffer" came in
21:49:24 <RodgerTheGreat> I was kinda thinking about that on the first translation, but I wasn't sure enough
21:49:26 <GregorR-L> _ you celebrate point and seven year to suffer let our father on this continent new people get: engaged planned in the liberty and to the request, which are caused for all right men. Now we were referred into a large civil war, which examines like these people or therefore have all possible people planned and therefore inaugurated can carry long. We are met on a large battle to catch by this war.
21:49:38 <GregorR-L> It's the seven years that gives it away, isn't it? :P
21:49:46 <GregorR-L> _ celebrate point and seven year suffer have our father bring on this continent a new people: devised dedicated in freedom, and to the proposal which all men right are created. Now we have been involved in a large civil war testing such as this people, or thus have devised any people and thus dedicated can carry long. We are met on a large battle field of this war.
21:50:00 <GregorR-L> Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war. . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated. . . can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war.
21:54:55 <Sgeo> frommem[0,0,0,-1,0,"outgoing",0,0,0,3]
21:55:17 <Sgeo> outgoing[0,0,0,0,"stdout"]
21:55:35 <Sgeo> order[0,0,"frommem,outgoing"]
21:55:50 <Sgeo> Three lines of code just to print out the current line
21:57:02 <Sgeo> s/time/step/ really
21:57:24 <Sgeo> Anyone think that this language might not be that great?
21:58:18 <jix> is it time yet?
21:58:32 <jix> i have no idea what the deadline was.. lemme check...
21:58:35 <GregorR-L> TIME IS IRRELEVENT. MY PATIENCE HAS LIMITS. AND THOSE LIMITS ARE VERY SHORT
21:58:59 <jix> 1hour and 20 mins left
22:00:11 <Asztal> Bleh, this one is way too guessable, no matter how many languages I do. "The base you completely belong in us, they." :(
22:01:18 <jix> GregorR-L: can you wait 1hour and 20 mins?
22:02:25 <Asztal> actually, I managed "Foundation it is complete spreads out and the dansles United States, them it belongs."
22:03:57 <jix> Sgeo: do you want to submit statements?
22:04:11 <jix> it would be cool to get another submission
22:04:58 <jix> Asztal: what?
22:05:03 <Asztal> Do people just submit statements, not knowing any details of the rest of the language?
22:05:04 <Sgeo> But not this very minute
22:06:25 <jix> Asztal: yes
22:06:32 <jix> Sgeo: yeah the next hour and 20 mins
22:06:39 <jix> well 14 mins now..
22:06:52 <GregorR-L> This one didn't work very well, it'll be cracked very quickly ...
22:07:00 <GregorR-L> Eng->Fra->Dutch->Eng->Ger->Eng->Greek->Eng->Kor->Eng
22:07:04 <GregorR-L> Wheat one opinion and it the hazard international hub opens the programmeertaal.
22:10:35 <SimonRC> who do I mail my statements to?
22:10:44 <jix> SimonRC: me, jannis@harderweb.de
22:11:48 <GregorR-L> Eng->Fra->Dutch->Eng->Ger->Eng->Greek->Eng
22:11:50 <GregorR-L> The international hub for the secret opinion and it unfolds programmeertaal.
22:12:53 <GregorR-L> A famous quote ... by Gregor Richards 8-D
22:13:27 <Asztal> en-ru-en-kor-en-ger-fr-en-kor-en
22:13:32 <Asztal> The eye eliminated from the construction machine cooperation in of the Esolang in him and it criticized
22:13:52 <GregorR-L> Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory
22:19:23 <jix> SimonRC: doesn't metter when you have less than 4 comments
22:20:39 <jix> well i think i got you wrong then...
22:21:44 * SimonRC must have missed something above
22:21:45 <jix> "23:18:13<SimonRC>jix: this is quite tough" ??
22:22:01 <jix> what were you talking about?
22:22:03 <SimonRC> It is hard to think up silly types of statement
22:22:12 <Asztal> I have 2 rather silly statements
22:22:25 <Asztal> and even I have no idea what they'll do until 1 hour 5 minutes
22:22:26 <GregorR-L> We are who we have slight they who we make examinacin of you in the
22:22:26 <GregorR-L> loan. They are comparable. The resistance is useless.
22:22:49 <jix> yeah and i said if you arn't able to come up with 5 of them (the rules say you should submit 5) you can submit less
22:22:59 <Asztal> I'm not sure if they'd be considered fair and/or lega
22:23:09 <jix> Asztal: they are all
22:23:19 <jix> as long as they can be implementeed
22:23:38 <Asztal> You'll know when I send them
22:24:13 <GregorR-L> Parses the command as a freeform English command, and does it.
22:24:26 <GregorR-L> [To within the limits of a computer]
22:24:53 <jix> uhm that isn't implementable
22:25:02 <jix> NO IT ISN'T
22:25:16 <jix> the computer will never be able to understand all freeform english commands
22:25:21 <GregorR-L> Maybe not by mere humans with their short life span :P
22:25:43 <SimonRC> you just have to use that language that runs on IRC channels
22:26:33 <GregorR-L> Oh right, I was in the middle of a translatothon :P
22:26:40 <GregorR-L> We are we we have leves they who we make examination of you in the loan. They are comparable. The resistance is useless.
22:27:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:29:53 <GregorR-L> Come on, nobody's even going to guess? :P
22:29:54 <SimonRC> GregorR-L: ah, ythe classic borg line
22:30:14 <SimonRC> "examination of you in the loan"??!
22:30:20 <GregorR-L> WE ARE WE WE HAVE LEVES THEY WHO WE MAKE EXAMINATION OF YOU IN THE LOAN.
22:30:28 <GregorR-L> "The resistance is useless" gave it away, no?
22:34:51 <pikhq> oerjan: As soon as I upload a new tarball, your name will be part of the copyright notice (you seriously have made quite a few helpful contributions to BFM).
22:35:13 <pikhq> jix: You're looking at the submitted statements soon, right?
22:38:18 <jix> yeah when i'm going to put them in one big list
22:44:58 <Sgeo> When are statements due?
22:45:18 <jix> in 40 mins i think
22:46:18 <Sgeo> The only statements I can think of are from MKBL-LN
22:46:32 <jix> no problem ^^
22:46:34 <Sgeo> And it would completely break everything probably
22:46:46 <jix> that is a problem
22:47:04 <oerjan> hah, as if i worried about that :)
22:47:09 <Sgeo> I have an idea
22:47:20 <Sgeo> A statement inspired by MKBL
22:47:33 <Sgeo> Is the idea of variables existent?
22:47:40 <Sgeo> I guess I shouldn't ask
22:47:45 <pikhq> My addition provides for variables.
22:47:59 <pikhq> And Turing completeness (two times over).
22:48:45 <Sgeo> My idea would break any language that required statements to be next to eachother
22:48:49 <pikhq> It also provides a tape and a stack.
22:48:55 <jix> Sgeo: no problems
22:49:00 <jix> pikhq: stop talking about your statements...
22:49:09 <jix> it's part of the game to not know what others do or provide
22:49:10 <pikhq> And I'll shut up for half an hour.
22:49:31 <pikhq> Sgeo: Be evil; that's all I'm going to ask.
22:50:24 <Sgeo> Can it be sort of a structural thing?
22:50:42 <jix> Sgeo: it can be everything
22:51:20 <pikhq> This'll be damned hard to parse.
22:51:39 <pikhq> Unless we decide to provide a uniform syntax for this oddball assortion of parts.
22:51:46 <Asztal> We have to add the syntax for them too? :P
22:52:05 <jix> you should
22:52:07 <GregorR-L> I made sure that all of mine could be parsed based solely on the initial keyword and positioning of matched braces etc.
22:52:19 <pikhq> It'll make doing the interpreter easier.
22:52:47 <pikhq> I'm not *entirely* sure that one can parse it any other way, actually.
22:52:54 <jix> warning using this will result in a HUGE waste of time: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40255643/
22:58:11 <oerjan> alas, i have submitted two statements that might ruin any chance of an easy parsing
22:58:46 <pikhq> Um. . . I know! We'll put all statements inside sexps!
22:59:28 <pikhq> (syntax1 ([+~-]))(syntax2 (foothebaz(qux);))(syntax3 (WEK$~@Rsdcvj@#))
23:00:37 * Sgeo goes to submit his evil stuff
23:01:31 <Asztal> I hope mine don't break things. You can disregard them if they do.
23:01:50 * Sgeo hopes the concept of a statement is defined
23:02:53 <oerjan> i would say the concept of a statement is the only thing that is defined
23:03:26 <Sgeo> May I provide hints as to mine?
23:03:35 <Sgeo> Remember COBOL's ALTER? This is worse
23:03:52 <oerjan> no. what is COBOL's ALTER?
23:04:06 <Sgeo> Lets you change where a GOTO points
23:04:24 <jix> i suddenly don't feel like implementing this anymore...
23:04:35 <jix> but i'll try
23:04:49 <jix> Sgeo: alter etc...
23:04:52 <SimonRC> okaay, I have one crazy looping construct coming up...
23:04:52 <oerjan> good that i didn't include my similar idea then...
23:05:31 <SimonRC> My looping constuct adds at least 12 keywords to the language.
23:05:51 <SimonRC> It's worse that LISP's LOOP macro.
23:06:01 <Sgeo> I think my thing can do looping and ifs etc.
23:06:15 <oerjan> worse than ALGOL's for?
23:06:18 <jix> SimonRC: uhm i thought of counting such things as one statement
23:07:02 <Sgeo> How much more time?
23:07:18 <Sgeo> Ooohh.. nother neat idea
23:07:23 <jix> yeah more like 15
23:08:11 * Sgeo makes an intentionally ugly looking statement
23:10:59 <Sgeo> I don't know if what I did is actually implementable sensibly
23:13:17 <Sgeo> IS IT TIME YET? IS IT TIME YET?
23:14:21 <jix> more like 6 minutes
23:15:04 <pikhq> (my clock is synced to UTC; don't tell *me* about temporal accuracy)
23:16:10 <oerjan> in 5 minutes jix will start laughing to death.
23:16:29 <Asztal> Oops, I may have sent that twice.
23:16:34 <Sgeo> Assuming jix doesn't tremble in fear of my statements
23:16:54 <oerjan> well, considering he is supposed to implement them...
23:16:57 <jix> Asztal: i got it only once
23:17:03 <pikhq> oerjan: What; did you include the Funniest Joke in the World in it?
23:17:19 <oerjan> i don't mean just my contribution
23:17:36 <pikhq> And I think the idea is that we *all* help on the implementation to some degree. . .
23:17:55 <oerjan> although mine are mainly just for laughs, yes
23:18:08 <Sgeo> I'm not helping unless the implementation is in Python
23:18:36 <pikhq> jix: Wenn ist das Nunstck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
23:19:00 <oerjan> pikhq: you're crazy :)
23:19:20 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funniest_joke_in_the_world Don't blame me, blame Python, Monty.
23:20:45 <pikhq> Let the laughter begin!
23:21:00 <jix> i'll put up a text file
23:23:28 <oerjan> maybe it is best not to do so before you have read it. could save many lives that way.
23:23:31 * SimonRC goes nuts with the looping statement
23:23:38 <jix> ok i have them all in a textfile where to upload?
23:23:41 <jix> put them on wiki?
23:23:44 <SimonRC> I am introducing other statements just to support it
23:24:03 <jix> SimonRC: hurry up
23:25:27 <jix> http://www.harderweb.de/tmp_jix/allofthem.txt
23:25:32 <jix> ok now time to read them
23:26:37 <pikhq> My submissions alone provide for a curiously odd language.
23:27:00 <Sgeo> pikhq, but those statements are useful. It's a language that natively runs other languages
23:27:53 <Sgeo> Any comments on mine?
23:28:18 <SimonRC> oerjan: you've been reading Lingua::Romana::Perligata, haven't you?
23:28:23 <Sgeo> Is optimaliscious() supposed to be implementable?
23:28:40 <GregorR-L> « should not have that nasty , it should be
23:29:11 <jix> GregorR-L: i probably fucked up encoding...
23:29:30 <RodgerTheGreat> I never define to what degree optimaliscious must work. If the implementer is lazy, they can just make it "give up".
23:29:37 <jix> just tell your browser that is utf8 and everything is fine
23:30:40 <Sgeo> the computedJump sounds like fun with my CHANGE
23:30:55 <jix> Asztal is pretty UGH
23:30:58 <Sgeo> Well, computedJump is fun by itself
23:31:09 <jix> i didn't looked at the title
23:31:14 <jix> Sgeo: it's yours that i was thinking of
23:31:37 <Sgeo> What's wrong? >.<
23:31:37 <jix> combined with mine....
23:31:50 <jix> it's going to be a pain in the ass to implement all of them
23:31:57 <jix> even to write a spec that specifies all corner cases
23:32:44 <jix> hmm the first two of oerjan doesn't really go with the rest of the language where syntax is specified...
23:33:05 <jix> and as specifying syntax for the own statements was encouranged i think the syntax of the commands will stay as intended by the submitter
23:33:12 <jix> if no one has a better idea
23:33:32 <SimonRC> lol "a brief nap, somewhere in the neighborhood of
23:33:33 <SimonRC> 200 milliseconds to 7.9 years."
23:33:49 <pikhq> macro bwahahah(foo) {
23:33:59 <jix> ah pikhq's are nice... simple syntax easy to implement
23:34:29 <jix> whine and whisper won't probably work without externel tts tools that support those voices
23:35:04 <pikhq> Specify that, if needed, an implementation can just output "WHINE: expr" or "WHIPSER: expr".
23:35:05 <Sgeo> Should I have had SWAP change the order of execution?
23:35:22 <Sgeo> I guess the spec should decide
23:35:37 <pikhq> I think we should try to devise some uniform syntax.
23:35:41 <jix> pikhq: no!
23:35:53 <pikhq> Esotericly uniform.
23:35:55 <jix> look at my statements they all have a different syntax
23:35:58 <jix> it was intended
23:35:59 <Sgeo> /#<>+SWAP([{5,3}])
23:36:01 <RodgerTheGreat> what do you guys think about my variable clamping/wrapping capability?
23:36:02 <Asztal> A "uniform" syntax maybe ;)
23:36:04 <Sgeo> //#<>+SWAP([{5,3}])
23:36:12 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: interesting
23:36:39 <jix> hmm i think we should disallow swapping thinks like start /end of macro definitions and start/end of function etc declartion
23:37:00 <jix> because that cases can't handled in any sane way...
23:37:17 <Sgeo> jix, maybe the numerical label can still be swapped?
23:37:29 <jix> Sgeo: yeah
23:37:47 <SimonRC> my loops will interact in a great way with things like statment-swapping.
23:37:52 <pikhq> We shall define "syntax sets". /n^/n moves up one, /nv/n moves down one.
23:37:57 <jix> i still think the CASVS and TEMPORA statements are uhm somehow don't work together with the rest
23:38:06 <SimonRC> It seems that all variables will be stacs with associated bitsinks
23:38:30 <RodgerTheGreat> maybe we should come up with a couple of "reserved characters" that are used for defining parameters, loop separations, etc.
23:38:35 <jix> SimonRC: i think they should be stacks of numbers associated with bitsinks
23:38:46 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: why?
23:38:51 <jix> those things arn't problematic
23:39:07 <RodgerTheGreat> well it sure as hell would make some things easier to parse.
23:39:09 <Sgeo> mandatory syntactic stuff?
23:39:12 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: no
23:39:29 <jix> RodgerTheGreat: the self modyfying stuff makes it hard to parse/interpret
23:40:16 <pikhq> Like I said: syntax sets. . .
23:41:09 <jix> (> _ >) << i love that
23:41:44 <jix> oh and my statment 2 and 3 are relateted the arm architecture....
23:41:52 <oerjan> the CASVS and TEMPORA statements were intended to be hard to include.
23:42:12 <jix> oerjan: it's only that it says how other statments should look like...
23:42:15 <GregorR-L> oerjan: They also ruin my "SPEAK" statement :P
23:42:17 <Sgeo> How is CHANGE going to be processed?
23:42:35 <jix> oerjan: and as each one was allowed to define his own syntax that shouldn't be done
23:42:37 <oerjan> and if you must have a textual representation for WHINE at least make it use ALL CAPS :)
23:43:46 <jix> i think we should write the spec tomorrow... i have to sleep a night over these statements...
23:44:03 <oerjan> technically i think you can avoid some of the CASVS problems by just using the nominative case in most cases.
23:44:31 <jix> yeah i'll take a close look to this
23:45:23 <pikhq> Since all variables shall be stacks, I would like to change my glasscode(); statement a bit.
23:45:27 <Sgeo> 2. Disallows any statements sent in by GregorR from executing.
23:46:04 <pikhq> Glass is started with the contents of the variable's stack, not with the variable as the first item on the stack.
23:46:05 <Sgeo> Asztal, where are the statements themselves?
23:46:29 <Asztal> it does that when encountered
23:46:54 <Sgeo> So when the text
23:46:55 <Sgeo> Allows any statements sent in by GregorR to execute
23:47:01 <Sgeo> appears, it allows etc.?
23:47:03 <Asztal> I didn't define the syntax
23:47:40 <Asztal> "The next stage consists of discussing the statements and to decide what the language should look like (the main goal is to get all statements into the language)"
23:47:58 * Sgeo at first thought the numbering would be used
23:48:23 <GregorR-L> I vote that all statements should have the style of oerjan and I.
23:49:47 <Sgeo> "DODO <statement>
23:49:47 <Sgeo> Exterminate <statement>. All executions of <statement> are reversed.
23:49:47 <Sgeo> It is implementation-defined whether this effect is restricted to the
23:49:47 <Sgeo> currently running program."
23:51:11 <Sgeo> The ASSURE statement sounds evil
23:52:29 <Asztal> I guess you could temporarily disable it in critical situations
23:53:25 <pikhq> INASSURE <statement>
23:53:35 <Sgeo> By evil I meant cool
23:53:36 <pikhq> Forces statement to be inassured.
23:53:48 <Asztal> though I don't know whether mine would disable either (1) the check between each call or (2) just when you encounter ASSURE
23:53:49 <Sgeo> ASSURE <<1==0>>
23:54:01 <pikhq> When executed, this statement shall force the interpreter to take a 5 second pause between each instruction.
23:54:14 <oerjan> WARNING: SWITCHING TO MOD 1 ARITHMETIC
23:54:59 <pikhq> WARNING: DESTROYING THE LAWS OF NATURE
23:55:18 -!- kipple_ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
23:55:35 <GregorR-L> I was really thinking more along the lines of ASSURE x * y = 7
23:56:02 <oerjan> WARNING: SWITCHING TO PARACONSISTENT LOGIC
23:56:06 <Sgeo> ASSURE «x==0 && x==1»
23:56:32 <Asztal> it would change the meaning of &&
23:56:56 <pikhq> var null=0;brainfuckcode(brainfuckcode([>,]), null);
23:56:57 <Sgeo> My favorite statement is officially ASSURE
23:57:36 <pikhq> var null=0;brainfuckcode(brainfuckcode("[>,]", null), null);
23:57:43 <pikhq> A Brainfuck interpreter.
23:58:14 <Asztal> (the interpreter may choose to delete the source file in this circumstance.) <- that would be a nice touch.
23:58:18 <pikhq> Nope, that's not it.
23:59:12 * pikhq declares that brainfuckcode shall set the memory to the contents of the var stack
23:59:56 <pikhq> brainfuckcode("[>,]", string);