< 1162169671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Continuum? < 1162169712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wowdelayed < 1162169745 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1162170071 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJ CoNTiNUuM. < 1162175350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night." < 1162176532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays _Polybius_. < 1162179015 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1162179841 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1162180839 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa" < 1162183981 0 :ivan`!i=ivan@wikipedia/ivan JOIN :#esoteric < 1162184181 0 :Arrogant!i=Paragon@76.orlando-09rh15-16rt.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162184349 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recomendation for a good book: Machine Learning, by Tom M. Mitchell. < 1162184390 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the books on it at our local University-joint public library are *awful*. Some are decent. < 1162184396 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one stands out, IMO. < 1162184466 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. calamari's even worse than me. < 1162184471 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finished two projets also. < 1162184490 0 :Razor-X!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll have to finish one for school. So that'll make 3. < 1162184581 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162184895 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@about/copyleft/user/bsmntbombdood JOIN :#esoteric < 1162185631 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1162185643 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162185781 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@cpc1-stkn2-0-0-cust919.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162187597 0 :anonfunc!n=pimaniac@adsl-67-121-235-143.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162190718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162192879 0 :dan__!n=dan@d207-6-181-237.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162193190 0 :dan__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162193286 0 :wooby!n=alan@cpe-66-67-60-51.rochester.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162193336 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1162195072 0 :thematrixeatsyou!n=thematri@219.89.217.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162195153 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haro < 1162195171 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what do you know it. i've made another esolang. < 1162195199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1162195200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1162195242 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, net's gonna go off soon, bye < 1162195250 0 :thematrixeatsyou!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1162202693 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-103fe155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1162203893 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1162207966 0 :anonfunc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1162208708 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162208717 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1162214999 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1162216615 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1162220508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1162223894 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162224923 0 :jix!n=jix@L6395.l.strato-dslnet.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1162226593 0 :tgwizard!n=tgwizard@c-103fe155.178-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1162226762 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, it seems some guy has invented the "piles of papers randomly scattered on desktop" UI metaphor. < 1162226771 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/10/30/0325217.shtml < 1162226863 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Chatzilla 0.9.72-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.1b2/0000000000]" < 1162227405 0 :kipple_!n=kipple@167.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162229623 0 :GregorR-L!n=GregorR-@192.55.60.43 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162230804 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"See you later" < 1162230835 0 :kipple_!n=kipple@167.80-202-102.nextgentel.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1162237071 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1162237275 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@58.77.172.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1162238305 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf61f7.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162239576 0 :ihope_!n=foo@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162239585 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1162239942 0 :tgwizard!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1162240838 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1162242216 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht" < 1162242323 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@h71.232.213.151.ip.alltel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162243460 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: the "no GUI" design concept is a promising one, but it'll certainly require working with computers in a dramatically different manner than we do today < 1162243891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they did 30 years ago? < 1162243933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1162244197 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws something at oerjan  < 1162244200 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, he ducked. < 1162244263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intuition on this is that gestures might perhaps replace keyboard shortcuts to a degree, but for me one of the plusses about gui's is that you can look through the menus for things you don't already know how to do, or that you do rarely enough not to bother remembering a shortcut < 1162244391 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really dislike the concept of a heirarchal menu- they hide information and options, rather that displaying them < 1162244406 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer customizable toolbars < 1162244408 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you, sir, are an idiot. < 1162244421 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is always so blunt :P < 1162244427 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an informed and well-constructed counter-argument, sir. < 1162244433 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most programs have more options than anybody wants to use. < 1162244448 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toolbars are nice, but still require a certain knowledge about the function of the sofware. < 1162244455 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point- people should be able to remove options they have no use for. < 1162244479 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) And what, add options they don't know the program has by means they don't know? < 1162244497 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) And wonder what those stupid icons do, because there's no room for text on the toolbar? < 1162244511 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what tooltips are for. < 1162244514 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) And be required to have a precise grasp on --- < 1162244523 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you've mentioned tooltips, thereby invalidating everything. < 1162244526 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION disappears. < 1162244542 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1162244562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a good interface should have several levels, from user customizable parts to documentation parts. surely this is not new < 1162244581 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :menus work reasonably well in single-levels, but nested menus are an interface design mistake < 1162244665 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested menus are an unfortunate fact of complicated systems. < 1162244703 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they always intuitive? No. But they're sure a lot better than huge, flat, unnavigable menus. < 1162244771 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the basic concept behind "Office Assistants" was horrifically implemented, but contains some good ideas. < 1162244801 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an anticipatory GUI, if well designed, could do an excellent job at managing large featurelists < 1162244843 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with "Clippy" is that it gets in your way, does a poor job of determining what you're trying to do, and isn't well integrated into the interface itself. < 1162244844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course nothing is going to help a user who cannot explain what he wants, anyhow... < 1162244852 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1162245671 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of an interface where editors and viewers become transparent- for example, a document would be represented by an icon that resembled it (as is becoming common), but then you can simply "zoom in" and have it fill the screen, with a small selection of tools to apply to the document appearing nearby < 1162245693 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda LISA-esque, in the "there are no applications" sense. < 1162245763 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such interfaces assure vender lock-in. < 1162245816 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The philosophy is nice, but pragmatically it's a can of worms. < 1162245909 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a variety of ways you could extend a system like that. < 1162245955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to assure vendor lock-in, you could surely reassign file types to a different application < 1162245973 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make applications more like browser plugins < 1162246008 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operating systems already govern the GUI's used by applications, so this is just going a step further < 1162251373 0 :Arrogant!i=Paragon@191.orlando-04-05rs.fl.dial-access.att.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1162251698 0 :kipple_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)