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02:25:36 <Rugxulo> quick poll: favorite esoteric language?
02:27:01 * Rugxulo likes sed ... but if that doesn't count, I guess Brainf*** and then not sure, False perhaps??
02:28:00 <Rugxulo> Befunge is nifty, but Malbolge (I think) is just ridiculous
02:28:20 <Rugxulo> and unlambda is way, way over my head
02:28:41 <GreaseMonkey> got the game "enigma 1.00"? there's a level called "print 23" which you have to make a brainfuck program
02:29:03 <Rugxulo> what kind? what's it supposed to do?
02:31:02 <GreaseMonkey> oxyd is loke memory except you gotta do some weird puzzles
02:55:54 <lament> Rugxulo: favourite? probably Befunge
02:56:37 <lament> i think befunge has pretty much exactly the right feature set for fun _programming_
02:56:58 <lament> (unlike say unlambda, which is really cool but nobody writes anything in it)
02:57:38 <SimonRC> I keep meaning to make a C-> befunge compiler or something.
02:57:41 <Rugxulo> they're all cool, but understanding how to write something nifty in it ... that's a whole other ball game :P
02:57:44 <lament> false is pretty nice but befunge totally gets it right
02:58:21 <Rugxulo> there are already a few converters (not necessarily for those but anyways ...)
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03:03:34 <lament> SimonRC: i think he just means that compilers targeting esolangs exist.
03:03:36 <Rugxulo> not for Forth to Befunge, I just meant in general
03:12:14 <Rugxulo> http://lvogel.free.fr/sed.htm#unlambda
03:13:52 <Rugxulo> yup, almost as crazy as sokoban in sed (or factor or bf2c or dc or hanoi or ...)
03:15:16 <lament> bf2c is completely trivial
03:15:33 <lament> and i'm guessing so is hanoi
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03:17:21 <Rugxulo> http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Code/bsd/bsd-current/sed/TEST/hanoi.sed
03:17:29 <Rugxulo> (not sure if that's the latest but whatever)
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03:34:30 <SimonRC> hehehe: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4049365580674350429&q=half+life+2+physics+domino+effect
04:46:12 <Rugxulo> no idea, too bizarre for me
04:50:33 <lament> s is a very standard combinator
04:55:18 <lament> unlambda didn't invent all its stuff
05:02:40 <Razor-X> It kinda does that to all of us.
05:03:32 <Razor-X> Our school is being charged $5/student for someone to create a system which a teacher can check a bunch of checkboxes, and input a Student's ID and these checkboxes will compose a voice message that will be sent out to the student's listed phone number.
05:03:54 <Razor-X> If the hardware interface is added correctly, then that is a total RIP OFF.
05:04:33 <Razor-X> I'm torn between offering to help and betraying the students.
05:05:31 <Rugxulo> "The language is named after Malebolge, the eighth level of hell in Dante's Inferno, which is reserved for perpetrators of fraud."
05:05:38 <Rugxulo> better not defraud anyone ;)
05:06:21 <Razor-X> I admire Malbolge for being incredibly incredibly esoteric and awful to program in.
05:06:36 <Razor-X> While still retaining a semblance of programmability, and an allure of Turing completeness.
05:06:36 <lament> it's not hard to create languages like malbolge.
05:06:56 <Razor-X> But lament is right. In that way, I think BF is genius.
05:08:38 <Razor-X> I call it BF mainly to elide the expletive, meh.
05:08:43 <lament> Rugxulo: come on, spell fuck correctly
05:08:46 <Rugxulo> inspired by False, I think
05:09:15 <bsmntbombdood> Urban Dominik Müller is the creator of the Aminet Amiga archive, the original author of the XPK compression library and the creator of the Brainfuck programming language.
05:09:15 <Rugxulo> (but I think the False guy had lots of other stuff)
05:09:58 <lament> aardappel ("the false guy") has like 20 other esolangs and a few seriously cool programs (eg Cube)
05:10:09 <lament> he used to hang out here but sadly disappeared :(
05:10:19 <lament> he's a genius programmer
05:13:24 <lament> i think the popularity of brainfuck is mostly due to the character set chosen for the instructions
05:13:29 <lament> it just looks so pretty
05:13:33 <lament> otherwise, the language is nothing special
05:14:42 <Rugxulo> really? I think it's quite nice ... I mean, how do you compare languages anyways? they are all different, meant for different things, etc.
05:15:26 <Rugxulo> http://wouter.fov120.com/index.html
05:15:30 <Rugxulo> (False creator's web page)
05:21:41 <Rugxulo> BTW, a cool Brainf*** compiler (outputs .COM) written in NASM is here: http://home.arcor.de/partusch/html_en/bfd.html
05:26:50 <lament> Rugxulo: you compare languages with a magical language comparator.
05:27:10 <lament> Rugxulo: i doubt many people here can run .com files
05:27:45 <lament> easier to write your own compiler
05:28:05 <Rugxulo> but you can run so many other goodies with DOSBOX :D
05:28:14 <Rugxulo> and it ain't a huge download either
05:34:33 <SimonRC> (Come *ON* Wikipedia you slow pile of crap!)
05:36:29 <SimonRC> www. works fine but en. gives:
05:36:31 <SimonRC> While trying to retrieve the URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
05:36:31 <SimonRC> The following error was encountered:
05:36:31 <SimonRC> * Connection to 145.97.39.155 Failed
05:37:30 <lament> i was just getting 502 errors on google (!!!)
05:37:38 <lament> perhaps there's a serious DoSing in progress
05:38:09 <SimonRC> oh, it's suddenly working again
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05:46:16 <RodgerTheGreat> in my computer science class, we were assigned a group of functions to implement recursively. It was really easy, so now I'm working on reimplementing them in BASIC. doing recursion without actual function calls and no variable scoping makes it a great deal more interesting.
05:51:32 <SimonRC> erm, that would crash if B>1, surely?
05:52:00 <SimonRC> Or overflow the call stack rather.
05:52:31 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: GOSUB counts as a funtion call
05:53:04 <SimonRC> But there is no local scope.
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08:10:56 <Razor-X> Meh. Reading the Vorbis specification truly humbles me.
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08:39:12 <oklopol> has anyone done quicksort in brainfuck?
09:16:08 <Razor-X> Recursion isn't exactly... BF's strongpoint.
09:24:47 <oklopol> true, but i've been making this string parser as a wimpmode for it, stacks are as easy to use with it as in ... languages they are easy to use :D
09:27:26 <Razor-X> The amount of work being done in BF is huge. Notably BFC and BFASM for something akin to today's developing tools or pikhq's BFM for an optimizing BF semi-high-level macro system.
09:29:59 <oklopol> eh... bad idea you say? :D
09:31:01 <Razor-X> Well, go ahead, I guess. Heh.
09:31:21 <Razor-X> Me, personally, I'm tired of BF. It was really innovative the first time I saw it.
09:31:35 <oklopol> well, equally fun, stupid or not :)
09:31:54 <oklopol> yes, this is prolly the last thing i do with it :)
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23:17:18 <SimonRC> what happens when I do this:
23:18:37 <SimonRC> it was supposed to make your compuer beed a lot
23:18:48 <SimonRC> it was supposed to be a string of BELs
23:38:48 <bsmntbombdood> talked to the programming teacher at my school just now
23:42:37 <bsmntbombdood> "it can be oop unless it has compiler enforce private methods"
23:43:23 <GregorR-L> OOP is a tool. Passing it off as worthless is just as stupid as accepting it as the solution for all problems.
23:44:26 <GregorR-L> It's a paradigm made easier to use with language support, though such support is not strictly necessary.
23:44:38 <GregorR-L> And C++ gets a bad name, and D doesn't get enough press.
23:44:42 <SimonRC> erm, function pointers are generally considered a prerequisite to implementing an OO language.
23:45:43 <SimonRC> You could write OO assembler without difficulty.
23:46:49 <bsmntbombdood> "oop needs inheritance, polymorphism, encapsulation
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23:47:05 <SimonRC> Alas, some OO langs have ended up using the same mechanism (classes) for encapsulation, datatype definition, and method inheritance. That sucks.
23:47:44 <SimonRC> oh, and classes are sometimes used where interface should be used, futher muddying the matter.
23:48:39 <SimonRC> I was refering to thing like "List" being an abstract.
23:50:15 <SimonRC> encapsulation should be done with modules, datatypes should be defined seperately from their methods, multiple dispatch/overriding/virtual methods should be done with multimethods (and multiple-parameter typeclasses preferrably).
23:50:41 <SimonRC> Python uses duck typing, interfaces are defined in the comments, informally.
23:51:53 <SimonRC> I meant that there would be an *abstract* sequence class that vectors and linked lists inherited from.
23:52:10 <GregorR-L> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass . 'nuff said.
23:52:12 <SimonRC> Vectors actually being Python's lists, to confuse matters
23:52:42 <bsmntbombdood> New style classes in python have a common inheritance
23:53:19 <SimonRC> OST, maybe I am wrong about what I just said.
23:53:32 <SimonRC> But algebraic datatypes rock.
23:54:23 <SimonRC> especial multiple-parameter typecalsses with fundeps.
23:56:25 <SimonRC> They are like interfaces, except that can apply to more than one (OO) class.
23:56:38 <SimonRC> Fundeps allow the compiler to deduce more stuff
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