←2006-12-05 2006-12-06 2006-12-07→ ↑2006 ↑all
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02:25:36 <Rugxulo> quick poll: favorite esoteric language?
02:26:01 <GreaseMonkey> perl
02:26:07 <GreaseMonkey> k, maybe no
02:26:10 <GreaseMonkey> t
02:26:17 <GreaseMonkey> i like befunge
02:27:01 * Rugxulo likes sed ... but if that doesn't count, I guess Brainf*** and then not sure, False perhaps??
02:28:00 <Rugxulo> Befunge is nifty, but Malbolge (I think) is just ridiculous
02:28:20 <Rugxulo> and unlambda is way, way over my head
02:28:41 <GreaseMonkey> got the game "enigma 1.00"? there's a level called "print 23" which you have to make a brainfuck program
02:29:03 <Rugxulo> what kind? what's it supposed to do?
02:30:43 <GreaseMonkey> it's a clone of oxyd
02:31:02 <GreaseMonkey> oxyd is loke memory except you gotta do some weird puzzles
02:31:10 <GreaseMonkey> you guide a ball around
02:31:59 <GreaseMonkey> im working on a particle automaton
02:33:18 <Rugxulo> o_o
02:33:22 <GreaseMonkey> i have an AND gate now
02:33:55 <GreaseMonkey> now made an OR gate
02:37:45 <GreaseMonkey> now an XOR
02:47:31 <GreaseMonkey> here's my OR:
02:47:33 <GreaseMonkey> ###-###
02:47:38 <GreaseMonkey> #> + <#
02:47:41 <GreaseMonkey> ### ###
02:47:46 <GreaseMonkey> __# #
02:47:53 <GreaseMonkey> _ goes to space
02:55:54 <lament> Rugxulo: favourite? probably Befunge
02:56:37 <lament> i think befunge has pretty much exactly the right feature set for fun _programming_
02:56:58 <lament> (unlike say unlambda, which is really cool but nobody writes anything in it)
02:57:26 <SimonRC> heh
02:57:38 <SimonRC> I keep meaning to make a C-> befunge compiler or something.
02:57:41 <Rugxulo> they're all cool, but understanding how to write something nifty in it ... that's a whole other ball game :P
02:57:44 <lament> false is pretty nice but befunge totally gets it right
02:57:48 <SimonRC> Maybe Forth->befunge
02:58:21 <Rugxulo> there are already a few converters (not necessarily for those but anyways ...)
02:58:22 <lament> (befunge-93 anyhow)
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03:02:12 <SimonRC> Rugxulo: where?
03:03:34 <lament> SimonRC: i think he just means that compilers targeting esolangs exist.
03:03:36 <Rugxulo> not for Forth to Befunge, I just meant in general
03:05:01 <SimonRC> ah, ok
03:06:09 <lament> which is good news!
03:08:51 * bsmntbombdood looks up unlambda
03:09:28 <SimonRC> enigma looks cool
03:11:26 <bsmntbombdood> unlambda is weird
03:11:40 <Rugxulo> yup
03:11:46 <Rugxulo> (surprised?) ;)
03:12:14 <Rugxulo> http://lvogel.free.fr/sed.htm#unlambda
03:12:18 <Rugxulo> :D
03:12:47 <bsmntbombdood> a sed interpreter for unlambda ?!
03:13:09 <bsmntbombdood> crazy
03:13:52 <Rugxulo> yup, almost as crazy as sokoban in sed (or factor or bf2c or dc or hanoi or ...)
03:14:05 <bsmntbombdood> holy crap
03:15:16 <lament> bf2c is completely trivial
03:15:30 <Rugxulo> yes
03:15:32 <bsmntbombdood> I should write a minimal-scheme interpreter
03:15:33 <lament> and i'm guessing so is hanoi
03:15:38 <bsmntbombdood> define and lambda
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03:17:21 <Rugxulo> http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/Code/bsd/bsd-current/sed/TEST/hanoi.sed
03:17:29 <Rugxulo> (not sure if that's the latest but whatever)
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03:34:30 <SimonRC> hehehe: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4049365580674350429&q=half+life+2+physics+domino+effect
04:40:38 <bsmntbombdood> what's the point of s in unlambda?
04:46:12 <Rugxulo> no idea, too bizarre for me
04:48:00 <lament> um
04:48:09 <lament> 's' is for 'standard'
04:50:05 <bsmntbombdood> ?
04:50:33 <lament> s is a very standard combinator
04:53:26 <bsmntbombdood> ...
04:55:08 <lament> ..?
04:55:18 <lament> unlambda didn't invent all its stuff
04:55:28 <bsmntbombdood> meh I'll figure it out later
04:55:52 <lament> i'm sure you will.
04:59:58 <bsmntbombdood> school is really harming my ability to think
05:02:40 <Razor-X> It kinda does that to all of us.
05:03:32 <Razor-X> Our school is being charged $5/student for someone to create a system which a teacher can check a bunch of checkboxes, and input a Student's ID and these checkboxes will compose a voice message that will be sent out to the student's listed phone number.
05:03:54 <Razor-X> If the hardware interface is added correctly, then that is a total RIP OFF.
05:04:33 <Razor-X> I'm torn between offering to help and betraying the students.
05:05:31 <Rugxulo> "The language is named after Malebolge, the eighth level of hell in Dante's Inferno, which is reserved for perpetrators of fraud."
05:05:38 <Rugxulo> better not defraud anyone ;)
05:06:03 <lament> malbolge sucks.
05:06:21 <Razor-X> I admire Malbolge for being incredibly incredibly esoteric and awful to program in.
05:06:36 <Razor-X> While still retaining a semblance of programmability, and an allure of Turing completeness.
05:06:36 <lament> it's not hard to create languages like malbolge.
05:06:56 <Razor-X> But lament is right. In that way, I think BF is genius.
05:07:53 <bsmntbombdood> I wonder who inveneted BF
05:08:23 <Rugxulo> Brainf***?
05:08:26 <Rugxulo> Urban Mueller
05:08:29 <Razor-X> Yeah.
05:08:38 <Razor-X> I call it BF mainly to elide the expletive, meh.
05:08:42 <bsmntbombdood> He have anything else?
05:08:43 <lament> Rugxulo: come on, spell fuck correctly
05:08:46 <Rugxulo> inspired by False, I think
05:09:00 <Rugxulo> dunno, can't remember
05:09:07 <Rugxulo> not that I know of
05:09:15 <bsmntbombdood> Urban Dominik Müller is the creator of the Aminet Amiga archive, the original author of the XPK compression library and the creator of the Brainfuck programming language.
05:09:15 <Rugxulo> (but I think the False guy had lots of other stuff)
05:09:58 <lament> aardappel ("the false guy") has like 20 other esolangs and a few seriously cool programs (eg Cube)
05:10:09 <lament> he used to hang out here but sadly disappeared :(
05:10:19 <lament> he's a genius programmer
05:11:50 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
05:12:32 <bsmntbombdood> brainfuck has to be the most popular esolang
05:13:24 <lament> i think the popularity of brainfuck is mostly due to the character set chosen for the instructions
05:13:29 <lament> it just looks so pretty
05:13:33 <lament> otherwise, the language is nothing special
05:14:42 <Rugxulo> really? I think it's quite nice ... I mean, how do you compare languages anyways? they are all different, meant for different things, etc.
05:15:26 <Rugxulo> http://wouter.fov120.com/index.html
05:15:30 <Rugxulo> (False creator's web page)
05:21:41 <Rugxulo> BTW, a cool Brainf*** compiler (outputs .COM) written in NASM is here: http://home.arcor.de/partusch/html_en/bfd.html
05:26:50 <lament> Rugxulo: you compare languages with a magical language comparator.
05:27:10 <lament> Rugxulo: i doubt many people here can run .com files
05:27:18 <Rugxulo> http://dosbox.sf.net
05:27:25 <Rugxulo> :P
05:27:45 <lament> easier to write your own compiler
05:28:05 <Rugxulo> but you can run so many other goodies with DOSBOX :D
05:28:14 <Rugxulo> and it ain't a huge download either
05:34:33 <SimonRC> (Come *ON* Wikipedia you slow pile of crap!)
05:36:29 <SimonRC> www. works fine but en. gives:
05:36:31 <SimonRC> While trying to retrieve the URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
05:36:31 <SimonRC> The following error was encountered:
05:36:31 <SimonRC> * Connection to 145.97.39.155 Failed
05:36:31 <SimonRC> The system returned:
05:36:34 <SimonRC> (113) No route to host
05:37:30 <lament> i was just getting 502 errors on google (!!!)
05:37:38 <lament> perhaps there's a serious DoSing in progress
05:38:09 <SimonRC> oh, it's suddenly working again
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05:46:16 <RodgerTheGreat> in my computer science class, we were assigned a group of functions to implement recursively. It was really easy, so now I'm working on reimplementing them in BASIC. doing recursion without actual function calls and no variable scoping makes it a great deal more interesting.
05:46:31 <bsmntbombdood> How does that work?
05:47:59 <lament> stack-in-an-array?
05:48:22 <RodgerTheGreat> well, so far I did a simple addition routine
05:48:34 <RodgerTheGreat> let me paste in my code:
05:49:56 <RodgerTheGreat> 10 INPUT A,B:GOSUB 20:PRINT A:END
05:50:18 <RodgerTheGreat> 20 IF B>1 THEN B=B+1:GOSUB 20
05:50:30 <RodgerTheGreat> 30 A=A+1:RETURN
05:51:32 <SimonRC> erm, that would crash if B>1, surely?
05:52:00 <SimonRC> Or overflow the call stack rather.
05:52:15 <RodgerTheGreat> erk
05:52:23 <RodgerTheGreat> B=B+1 should be B=B-1
05:52:26 <SimonRC> indeed
05:52:27 <RodgerTheGreat> typed it in wrong
05:52:31 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: GOSUB counts as a funtion call
05:52:49 <lament> since there's a stack
05:53:04 <SimonRC> But there is no local scope.
05:53:10 <lament> right.
05:53:33 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, it's a primitive type of function call
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08:10:56 <Razor-X> Meh. Reading the Vorbis specification truly humbles me.
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08:36:44 <GreaseMonkey> ###-###
08:36:45 <GreaseMonkey> #> + <#
08:36:45 <GreaseMonkey> ### ###
08:36:45 <GreaseMonkey> # #
08:36:58 <GreaseMonkey> an OR gate for my new particle automaton
08:37:14 <GreaseMonkey> k, gonna get some sleep, cya
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08:39:12 <oklopol> has anyone done quicksort in brainfuck?
08:58:10 <SimonRC> lol
08:58:19 * SimonRC goes for breakfast
09:03:51 <oklopol> :DD
09:16:08 <Razor-X> Recursion isn't exactly... BF's strongpoint.
09:24:47 <oklopol> true, but i've been making this string parser as a wimpmode for it, stacks are as easy to use with it as in ... languages they are easy to use :D
09:27:26 <Razor-X> The amount of work being done in BF is huge. Notably BFC and BFASM for something akin to today's developing tools or pikhq's BFM for an optimizing BF semi-high-level macro system.
09:29:59 <oklopol> eh... bad idea you say? :D
09:31:01 <Razor-X> Well, go ahead, I guess. Heh.
09:31:21 <Razor-X> Me, personally, I'm tired of BF. It was really innovative the first time I saw it.
09:31:35 <oklopol> well, equally fun, stupid or not :)
09:31:46 <Razor-X> INTERCAL is fun.
09:31:54 <oklopol> yes, this is prolly the last thing i do with it :)
09:32:38 <oklopol> never done intercal :\
09:32:52 <oklopol> maybe today
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13:36:16 <nooga> oi
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23:10:24 <GreaseMonkey> hello
23:15:16 <SimonRC> hi
23:17:18 <SimonRC> what happens when I do this:
23:17:19 <SimonRC>
23:18:17 <GreaseMonkey> you get a blank message
23:18:18 <GreaseMonkey>
23:18:37 <SimonRC> it was supposed to make your compuer beed a lot
23:18:48 <SimonRC> it was supposed to be a string of BELs
23:19:04 <GreaseMonkey> but i have nix
23:19:09 <GreaseMonkey> linux
23:19:33 <GreaseMonkey> "gotta take a linux" "don't forget to flush"
23:25:32 <SimonRC> :-S
23:31:34 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
23:32:11 <GreaseMonkey> hey, is nonlogic taking new accts?
23:32:15 <GreaseMonkey> if not, then when?
23:38:41 <bsmntbombdood> hum
23:38:48 <bsmntbombdood> talked to the programming teacher at my school just now
23:39:38 <bsmntbombdood> "OOP OOOP OOP OOP OOP IS THE AWNSER OOP OOP"
23:40:24 <GregorR-L> Java teacher?
23:41:21 <bsmntbombdood> He teachs c++ and java
23:41:24 <GreaseMonkey> c++ is teh ghey
23:41:27 <GreaseMonkey> c ftw
23:41:32 <bsmntbombdood> c is fun
23:41:33 <GreaseMonkey> well, c++ IS an ass
23:41:44 <GreaseMonkey> i can do OOP in C
23:41:52 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
23:41:52 <GreaseMonkey> i usually make my own scripting langs though
23:41:56 <bsmntbombdood> I tried to convince him that
23:42:19 <bsmntbombdood> "OOP means data hiding"
23:42:34 <GreaseMonkey> OOP means incompatibility with real langs
23:42:37 <bsmntbombdood> "it can be oop unless it has compiler enforce private methods"
23:42:45 <bsmntbombdood> s/it can/it can't/
23:42:59 <GreaseMonkey> minor typo there
23:43:23 <GregorR-L> OOP is a tool. Passing it off as worthless is just as stupid as accepting it as the solution for all problems.
23:43:39 <bsmntbombdood> No one said it was worthless
23:43:44 <GreaseMonkey> i was slinging mud at C++
23:43:47 <bsmntbombdood> OOP is a style, not part of the language
23:43:54 <GreaseMonkey> yep
23:44:13 <GreaseMonkey> for all i know, it could be a Befunge program
23:44:26 <GregorR-L> It's a paradigm made easier to use with language support, though such support is not strictly necessary.
23:44:38 <GregorR-L> And C++ gets a bad name, and D doesn't get enough press.
23:44:42 <SimonRC> erm, function pointers are generally considered a prerequisite to implementing an OO language.
23:45:18 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR-L: exactly
23:45:43 <SimonRC> You could write OO assembler without difficulty.
23:45:57 <GreaseMonkey> yep
23:45:59 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
23:46:10 <bsmntbombdood> not according to him though
23:46:11 <GreaseMonkey> CALL [ebx] , anyone?
23:46:49 <bsmntbombdood> "oop needs inheritance, polymorphism, encapsulation
23:46:51 <bsmntbombdood> "
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23:47:05 <SimonRC> Alas, some OO langs have ended up using the same mechanism (classes) for encapsulation, datatype definition, and method inheritance. That sucks.
23:47:44 <SimonRC> oh, and classes are sometimes used where interface should be used, futher muddying the matter.
23:48:11 <bsmntbombdood> interface?
23:48:17 <bsmntbombdood> a class is an interface
23:48:39 <SimonRC> I was refering to thing like "List" being an abstract.
23:48:42 <SimonRC> + class
23:48:57 <bsmntbombdood> WHat's wrong with that?
23:49:02 <bsmntbombdood> That's how python is
23:50:15 <SimonRC> encapsulation should be done with modules, datatypes should be defined seperately from their methods, multiple dispatch/overriding/virtual methods should be done with multimethods (and multiple-parameter typeclasses preferrably).
23:50:19 <SimonRC> bsmntbombdood: erm, no
23:50:38 <bsmntbombdood> ?
23:50:41 <SimonRC> Python uses duck typing, interfaces are defined in the comments, informally.
23:50:55 <bsmntbombdood> A list is a class
23:51:01 <SimonRC> yes
23:51:15 <SimonRC> Ah, wrong terminology.
23:51:53 <SimonRC> I meant that there would be an *abstract* sequence class that vectors and linked lists inherited from.
23:52:10 <GregorR-L> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Glass . 'nuff said.
23:52:12 <SimonRC> Vectors actually being Python's lists, to confuse matters
23:52:42 <bsmntbombdood> New style classes in python have a common inheritance
23:53:19 <SimonRC> OST, maybe I am wrong about what I just said.
23:53:21 <SimonRC> never mind
23:53:32 <SimonRC> But algebraic datatypes rock.
23:53:54 <SimonRC> as do typeclasses
23:54:23 <SimonRC> especial multiple-parameter typecalsses with fundeps.
23:54:55 <bsmntbombdood> ...that being?
23:55:16 <SimonRC> hard to explain
23:56:22 <GreaseMonkey> OOP wouldn't be too bad in TheSquare
23:56:25 <SimonRC> They are like interfaces, except that can apply to more than one (OO) class.
23:56:38 <SimonRC> Fundeps allow the compiler to deduce more stuff
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←2006-12-05 2006-12-06 2006-12-07→ ↑2006 ↑all