00:49:45 hmmm... 00:49:46 alright... 00:49:54 I'm going to build a hybrid of Python and Lisp. 00:50:11 It'll basically look like Python with Lispisms and Lisp syntax. 00:50:13 fail 00:51:28 (an.example of [some stuff for program in lisp-python-hybrid if (build-it True)]) 00:54:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:59:13 -!- wooby has joined. 01:00:31 CakeProphet: huh? 01:01:36 -!- digital_me_ has joined. 01:02:28 built-in or build-it? 01:02:49 CakeProphet, i don't wanna be an ass but you typed necessary nessicary again :) 01:11:57 -!- digital_me has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:12:12 aah... perl is broken on netbsd/macppc pkgsrc 01:12:48 Solution: don't use Perl, the only language where an unobfuscated coding contest is a challenge. 01:13:20 (Malbolge is excepted from that, on account of Malbolge not being an actual *language*) 01:13:38 it's a dependency 01:14:05 Like a crack addict? :p 01:15:51 w3m demands it 01:16:57 Solution: realise elinks > w3m. ;) 01:18:19 elinks? 01:18:30 i was going for links-gui 01:19:06 i see elinks doesn't support inline images. i'm still going for links-gui and praying. 01:19:25 (it seems unix turns one towards god) 01:19:48 That's because Unix is a diety unto itself. 01:20:14 en erratic deity 01:20:15 Although it's but a servant of the Most High Editor. ;) 01:20:28 It's Chaotic Neutral, in D&D terms. 01:21:24 i'm clueless about D&D, but i'm certain that an old-fashioned lovecraftian banishing would take care of the problematics raised. or an even more old-fashioned luddist reprogramming with an axe. 01:21:30 still, i'm bound and attached. 01:21:45 ~exec self.print_callbacks() 01:22:10 !exec class foo: pass 01:22:12 Huh? 01:22:45 ~exec exec "class foo:\n\tpass\nglobals()["foo"] = foo" 01:22:51 ~exec sys.stdout(foo) 01:23:08 ~exec exec "class foo:\n\tpass\nglobals()["foo"] = foo" in globals() 01:23:12 ~exec sys.stdout(foo) 01:23:26 ~exec exec "class foo:\n\tpass\nglobals()[\"foo\"] = foo" in globals() 01:23:39 argh 01:23:45 ~exec exec "class foo:\n\tpass\n" in globals() 01:23:49 ~exec sys.stdout(foo) 01:23:49 __main__.foo 01:23:53 yes 01:24:00 ~exec self.foo = foo() 01:24:31 ~exec self.foo.__class__.f = lambda self : bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo") 01:24:38 ~exec self.foo.f 01:24:45 ... 01:25:00 foo 01:25:01 ~exec sys.stdout(self.foo.f) 01:25:02 of <__main__.foo instance at 0xb7cc5f2c>> 01:25:07 ~exec self.foo.f() 01:25:08 foo 01:25:31 ~exec self.register_raw("abcd foo", self.foo.f) 01:25:47 ~exec self.save_callbacks("/bot/test.pickle") 01:25:51 ~quit 01:25:52 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit. 01:25:55 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 01:26:03 ~exec self.load_callbacks("/bot/test.pickle") 01:26:12 ~exec self.print_callbacks() 01:26:34 ~exec self.do_callbacks("abcd foo") 01:26:40 damn 01:27:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:27:14 still doesn't work with methods not of IRCbot 01:27:17 :( 01:28:51 -!- andreou has changed nick to ka-pow. 01:29:00 -!- ka-pow has changed nick to andreou. 01:29:52 kapow! 01:29:55 ping ping ping 01:29:59 pow pow 01:31:51 -!- digital_1e_ has joined. 01:39:54 -!- digital_me_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:49:27 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:49:52 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 01:51:18 still drizzling, still compiling 01:54:25 and it's four am, time to faint 01:54:32 -!- andreou has quit ("as if it vanished"). 01:54:44 oh crap 01:54:57 bsmnt_bot doesn't work with private messages 01:55:25 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 01:56:02 My internet is still borked 02:07:47 -!- CakeProphet_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 02:08:09 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 02:08:30 -!- CakeProphet has quit (No route to host). 02:08:45 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 02:26:11 -!- calamari has joined. 02:33:59 -!- ihope__ has joined. 02:35:26 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.). 02:35:28 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 02:35:39 -!- digital_1e_ has changed nick to digital_me. 03:11:46 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 03:24:34 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:24:55 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 03:25:02 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 04:00:19 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal"). 04:02:12 -!- digital_me has joined. 05:00:46 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 05:14:49 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 05:36:23 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:53:33 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:23:39 -!- wooby has quit. 06:47:37 -!- ShadowHntr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:55:23 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:55:23 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:55:23 -!- Sukoshi has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:55:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:55:23 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:58:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:58:43 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:58:43 -!- Sukoshi has joined. 07:58:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:58:43 -!- sekhmet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:24 whooo netsplit. 08:52:08 hmmm... 08:52:13 a language without data structures. 09:45:06 BASIC. 10:07:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:52:25 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 13:30:42 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 13:31:48 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:31:52 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 13:36:49 -!- tgwizard has joined. 13:46:45 -!- andreou has joined. 14:11:34 -!- oklofok has joined. 14:12:04 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:50:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:55:29 -!- andr- has joined. 14:55:33 -!- andreou has left (?). 14:55:44 -!- andr- has changed nick to andreou. 15:01:46 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 15:02:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:12:45 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:20:49 -!- Rent-A-Tard has joined. 15:22:05 Please write "John, I'm only dancing!" 15:22:19 Please write the lyrics of "John, I'm only dancing!"* 15:39:36 -!- jix has joined. 15:48:15 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 16:05:41 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol. 16:28:55 -!- digital_me has joined. 16:35:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:53:24 so, 16:53:37 is there still a cat's eye or any other esolang-related website? 16:56:33 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 16:57:01 thanks 17:15:48 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal"). 17:19:16 Please write the lyrics of "John, I'm only dancing!"* 17:19:27 Why isn't this working? Please tell me why ;) 17:28:50 hm 17:29:35 maybe my last comment in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:IRP should be taken into consideration 17:35:23 Join #irp. 17:36:34 !bf +[.+] 17:36:39 17:37:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 17:37:23 -!- EgoBot has joined. 17:37:54 !bf +[>.+<-] 17:38:33 !bf ++++++. 17:38:36 17:38:46 !bf +++++++++++++++++++++. 17:38:49 17:39:04 nice 17:39:20 Learning Brainfuck? 17:40:16 -!- ihope has joined. 17:40:45 yeah 17:40:48 !bf ++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>+++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>----.---.>----.>++++.<<----.>>+++..++++.--------.+++.<<+++.>[>>++>+<<<-]>>------.>.++.<<<<+.>>-----.++.>>. 17:40:51 The password: "emo" 17:40:55 yay! 17:40:56 :D 17:41:16 -!- Rent-A-Tard has changed nick to Rent-A-WAY-Tard. 17:48:22 There, think that'll stop the Talk:Piet-Q spambots? 17:50:42 It's worth a shot, anyway. 17:57:24 * pikhq hugs BFM some more. . . 18:06:40 -!- andreou has quit ("BitchX-1.1-final © 1996-2000 Colten Edwards"). 18:10:20 -!- tgwizard has joined. 18:28:39 -!- calamari has joined. 18:48:49 -!- jix has joined. 18:54:09 Ugh. . . 18:54:17 * pikhq sees Calamari, the Squid Boy. 18:54:57 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 18:56:17 -!- andreou has joined. 18:57:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:57:46 hi pikhq 19:28:42 -!- andreou has quit ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.1-final for the Nintendo 64 today!"). 19:29:22 -!- jix__ has joined. 19:51:46 -!- andreou has joined. 20:00:26 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 20:08:35 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 20:15:00 -!- jix__ has joined. 20:29:30 -!- Sph1nx has joined. 20:35:42 -!- Sph1nx has quit ("δΟ ΣΧΙΔΑΞΙΡ ΧΣΕΝ!"). 21:00:08 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:04:21 -!- jix__ has joined. 21:35:50 -!- Rent-A-WAY-Tard has changed nick to Rent-A-Tard. 21:35:56 gimme junkfood. 21:36:27 * oerjan scrapes something out of the garbage can. 21:36:41 * RodgerTheGreat sprinkes on some soy sauce 21:38:44 Eats it all. 21:38:47 Thank you :) 21:39:02 You're welcome. 21:40:33 * bsmntbombdood smells blood 21:40:54 No no, no blood, just entrails. 21:41:10 ~ctcp #esoteric ACTION uses /me 21:41:11 * bsmnt_bot uses /me 21:42:04 And _possibly some strange fungi. 21:42:22 there's fungus among us! 21:42:47 Is it humongous? 21:43:10 I could've sworn the fungus in the trash was gone- I saw a huge mound of slime mold crawl away a couple days ago. 21:43:44 although I'm not entirely certain that should be reassuring. 21:45:52 I told it to find some other slime to hang out with. 21:46:46 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~exec self.raw("") 21:46:51 ~exec self.raw("") 21:46:57 damnit. it probably came back, then. 21:47:18 No no, I saw it head towards the courthouse. 21:47:23 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a boring saturday") 21:47:24 this is a boring saturday 21:47:28 -!- digital_me has joined. 21:47:35 hi, digital_me 21:48:43 * bsmnt_bot prods digital_me 21:49:38 EgoBot do you have a manual? 21:49:56 !help 21:49:59 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 21:50:01 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 21:50:38 !help help 21:50:40 !ps d 21:50:41 Use: help [command] Function: displays help on a command, or lists commands 21:50:43 1 oerjan: ps 21:50:50 !help bf_txtgen 21:50:53 Use: bf_txtgen Function: use textgen.java with 1000 generations to generate an efficient BrainFuck text generator. 21:51:04 !daemon cat lazyk i 21:51:08 While parsing "./tmp/daemon.cat": Invalid character! 21:51:08 !cat Testing 21:51:09 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:51:19 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:51:22 Darn 21:51:28 you killed the bot, you bastard 21:51:40 nah, it takes to to fake southpark 21:51:43 ~exec self.register_raw(r"\S+ PRIVMSG (\S+) :~help", lambda x, y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG %s :no one can help you" % y.group(1))) 21:51:46 ~help 21:51:47 no one can help you 21:52:00 We do that all the time. I guess we should name it Kenny. 21:52:02 :) 21:52:18 !bf_textgen a shorty 21:52:20 Huh? 21:52:45 I don't know why it didn't accept that lazyk program. 21:52:49 !bf_txtgen shorty 21:52:56 ~exec self.save_callbacks("/bot/test.pickle") 21:53:08 !help ps 21:53:10 Use: ps Function: display the current processes 21:53:26 66 +++++++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++>><<<<-]>--.>.<----.+++.++.+++++. [810] 21:53:41 !ps 21:53:43 1 andreou: ps 21:53:49 I see it doesn't mention the d option to ps. 21:54:05 !exec sys.stderr(open("/bot/test.pickle").read()) 21:54:07 Huh? 21:54:12 ~exec sys.stderr(open("/bot/test.pickle").read()) 21:54:18 !bf_txtgen bereshith bara elohim eth ha-shamayim ve-eth ha-aretz 21:54:36 !ps 21:54:37 1 andreou: bf_txtgen 21:54:39 2 andreou: ps 21:54:56 What's a good rate limiting algorithm for my bot? 21:55:07 rate limiting? 21:55:21 so it doesn't send too fast 21:55:24 Well, you could use the limit in the original IRC RFC I guess: 21:55:41 and excess flood and die 21:55:51 Max 1 message every other second. 21:56:03 well dcc doesn't flood 21:56:06 that's not very many messages 21:56:08 (1/2) 21:56:17 364 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>.+++.>++.<.<+++.>+++.>---------.<<+.>.>>++++.<-------.-.<<--.>>.>.<++++.<++++.+++.>+++.+.<--.>>.<<--------.<++.>+++.>>.<-.-------.>+++++++++++++.<<<-.>.>.<<------.>>.<<++++++++++++.>+.++++.>>-------------.<<<---.>>++++.>+++++++++++++.<.<+++++++.>+++.>-------------.<.-------.>+++++++++++++.<.<--.>++++.<++.<++++. [861] 21:56:35 But with a 10 second leeway. 21:56:36 hell, i wish i had GPM so i could c&p the code 21:56:38 ~ps 21:56:39 0: 'sys.stderr(open("/bot/test.pickle").read())', 146.41 seconds 21:56:42 ~kill 0 21:56:48 ~ps 21:56:49 None 21:56:53 yay, it worked 21:57:40 right now IRCFileWrapper does "if lines_sent > 3: time.sleep(lines_sent/10.)" 21:59:41 What're you discussing? 22:00:03 I love crashing EgoBot 22:00:04 I'll change it to time.sleep(max([lines_sent/10., 2]) 22:00:07 Rent-A-Tard: my bot 22:00:23 !bf +[.+] 22:00:26 22:00:28 Ahh 22:00:40 What is it supposed to do? 22:00:52 nothing except execute python, right now 22:00:58 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:01:02 s/nothing/nothing but/ 22:01:09 er 22:01:11 A 22:01:13 -!- EgoBot has joined. 22:01:14 •a 22:01:19 a 22:01:42 !bf +[.+] 22:01:46 22:01:49 Rent-A-Tard: you can execute some python code with "~exec $code" 22:02:18 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:02:19 !ps d 22:02:25 Whoops 22:02:33 -!- EgoBot has joined. 22:02:36 !ps d 22:02:40 is it the +[.+]? 22:02:41 1 oerjan: ps 22:02:49 Yep. 22:02:51 andreou: yeah 22:02:58 well, let's stop it then. 22:03:10 ~exec while True: self.raw("") 22:03:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:03:11 Note that the default bf is the 16-bit one, I believe. 22:03:14 ~ps help 22:03:15 ^^ 22:03:36 heh 22:03:39 !daemon cat lazyk -e i 22:03:42 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:03:42 While parsing "./tmp/daemon.cat": Invalid character! 22:03:47 !bf +[.+] 22:03:51 22:03:53 goddamn, what the hell has bush to do with ecology and, more importantly, on my radio? 22:04:01 ~exec while True: self.raw("") 22:04:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:04:04 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:04:07 that's fun :) 22:04:09 Gah, just doesn't work. 22:04:14 Rent-A-Tard comeon, stop it. it beeps every time i switch to this screen 22:04:22 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:04:33 -!- EgoBot has joined. 22:04:37 okay 22:04:47 !daemon cat ,[.,] 22:04:53 I'll design something else 22:05:02 !cat Let's do it the usual way. 22:05:04 !bf ++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>+++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>----.---.>----.>++++.<<----.>>+++..++++.--------.+++.<<+++.>[>>++>+<<<-]>>------.>.++.<<<<+.>>-----.++.>>. 22:05:06 Huh? 22:05:10 The password: "emo" 22:05:11 I just wrote that up... 22:05:16 Yay! 22:05:19 It works! 22:05:27 !daemon cat bf ,[.,] 22:05:36 !cat Now then. 22:05:37 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): sys.stderr(i) 22:05:38 Now then. 22:05:50 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:05:52 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:05:53 finally 22:06:01 it took 10 messages 22:06:11 s/10/11/ 22:07:20 You should also do a test with a sleep in it. 22:07:31 ...? 22:07:36 go ahead 22:08:01 !bf 22:08:01 >++>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<<. 22:08:37 !bf >++>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<<. 22:08:40 oops 22:08:42 I don't know the Python syntax for sleep. Or the unit. 22:08:52 !bf >++>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]. 22:08:55 !bf >++>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<. 22:08:58 @ 22:09:03 IRCFileWrapper.write had a sleep(.2) in it 22:09:06 ~quit 22:09:06 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 22:09:08 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:09:10 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): sys.stderr(i) 22:09:11 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:09:13 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:09:16 !bf >+++>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<. 22:09:20 ` 22:09:21 that only took 3 messages 22:09:55 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): sys.stderr("\n" * i) 22:09:58 Not reliable then. 22:10:09 ~ps 22:10:10 None 22:10:12 !bf >+>+++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<. 22:10:14 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): sys.stderr("a\n" * i) 22:10:14 22:10:35 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 22:10:40 !bf >+++>++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<. 22:10:42 ~kill 0 22:10:44 0 22:10:46 !bf >+++>++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]. 22:10:50 ~ps 22:11:04 erm 22:11:05 !bf >+++>++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<<. 22:11:13 None 22:11:28 Hmm... 22:11:35 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): sys.stderr(("%s\n" % i) * i) 22:11:39 !bf >+++>++++[<[<++>-]<[>+<-]>>-]<<. 22:11:47 !daemon lion lazyk 22:11:55 !lion Testing 22:11:58 Huh? 22:12:42 The lazyk setup is broken. 22:12:58 well, my rate limiting works so far 22:13:02 up to 9 lines 22:14:07 My timing suggestion was to find out how quickly you can spam continuously :) 22:14:14 * pikhq recommends Rent-A-Tard play with BFM. . . 22:14:16 3 messages 22:14:23 oh 22:14:27 ~ps 22:14:29 It's a very good method for making complex Brainfuck programs. ;) 22:14:42 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfm.tar.bz2 22:14:45 ~kill 0 22:14:49 (end shameless plug) 22:14:57 oerjan: it's hard to know for sure.. sometimes messages get delayed then you get a flood 22:15:14 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:15:17 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:15:54 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i ) 22:15:55 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:15:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:16:03 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:16:03 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:16:06 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:16:08 weird 22:16:16 no messages even got sent to the channel 22:16:28 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.1); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:16:35 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:16:37 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:16:39 8 22:16:45 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.2); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:16:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:17:00 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:17:00 11 22:17:04 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.3); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:17:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:17:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:17:27 14 22:17:37 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.4); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:18:05 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:18:08 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:18:11 19 22:18:31 aaw, it was looking like a nice additive sequence there 22:18:37 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.5); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:19:05 Well it shouldn't be, after all _some_ sleep should allow it to continue indefinitely. 22:19:14 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:19:16 yeah 22:19:17 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:19:22 that was 23 22:19:29 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.7); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:20:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:20:30 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:20:32 34 22:20:38 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.9); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:20:45 Nice and linear... 22:21:06 I guess 46 :) 22:22:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:22:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:22:12 -!- jix__ has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:22:13 49 22:22:20 Hmm.. 22:22:26 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(1.1); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:24:34 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:24:37 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:26:26 68 22:26:33 ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(1.5); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i) 22:27:35 btw does python still have a lambda or was it removed? 22:27:43 still does 22:31:32 Is Python still not a Lisp? 22:31:41 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 22:31:44 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:31:51 158 messages 22:32:36 * bsmntbombdood can't remember the way to use and/or as if/else 22:33:12 (x and y) or z 22:33:19 y is false 22:33:37 (x and (y or True)) or z 22:33:55 then y doesn't get returned 22:35:15 hmmm 22:35:31 oh, i know, i can reverse my conditions 22:36:00 Python has conditional expressions. 22:36:31 Only in 2.5, and that's lame 22:37:40 ~quit 22:37:41 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit. 22:37:43 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:37:50 now the rate limit is adjustable 22:38:18 ~exec sys.stdout("foo") 22:38:18 foo 22:38:33 ~exec sys.stdout("foo\n") 22:38:33 foo 22:38:36 good 22:38:42 [(lambda : y),(lambda : z)]((x and 1) or 2)-1)() 22:39:15 hot damn! 22:39:22 and oerjan takes the prize! 22:39:31 For extreme situations :) 22:39:48 except the syntax isn't quite right 22:40:42 !exec sys.stderr("Obey me!") 22:40:46 Huh? 22:40:51 ~exec sys.stderr("Obey me!") 22:40:56 You know what I mean. 22:41:03 pikhq: sys.stdout goes here 22:41:13 bsmntbombdood: And sys.stderr goes nowhere. 22:41:26 no, sys.stderr goes the #bsmnt_bot_errors 22:41:32 Ah. 22:42:51 I forgot a (, what else? 22:42:58 oerjan: [(lambda : y),(lambda : z)][((x and 1) or 2) - 1]() 22:43:16 is what it should be 22:43:38 very clever 22:44:28 you could probably take out the lambdas though 22:44:42 [y,z][((x and 1) or 2) - 1] 22:44:59 Not if you want it to short-circuit the y and z expressions. 22:45:08 right 22:46:39 I just switched my condition and did self.rate_limit = rate_limit or (lambda x : (x > 3 and min([(x-2)/10., 2])) or 0) 22:47:44 good old lisp :/ 22:47:46 Yes, the sledgehammer is only needed if both branches can be false. 22:47:50 (if x y z) 22:48:29 no need for this crazyness 22:58:26 -!- Rent-A-Tard has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:00:47 -!- pmhaddad has joined. 23:01:26 -!- pmhaddad has left (?). 23:02:59 -!- wooby has joined. 23:22:21 FOOO 23:24:03 BAR 23:24:22 BAZ 23:24:39 QUX 23:25:08 EGGS 23:25:23 YOU BORK THE PATTERN 23:25:30 MAYONAISE 23:26:10 * pikhq thinks of a way to get target-language specific implementations of macros in BFM. . . 23:26:27 there's more than one target language? 23:26:41 My personal build targets C, Tcl, and Brainfuck. 23:26:54 (the interpreter just compiles to Tcl and executes that) 23:27:08 Well, that's not *entirely* true. 23:27:19 I should write a compiler 23:27:35 It compiles to a simplified BFM subset, which can be interpreted by a Tcl interpreter with the right procs in place. 23:29:52 What language should I write a compiler for 23:29:59 BFM. 23:30:23 Homespring. 23:30:37 Homespring? 23:30:57 A very fishy language. 23:31:04 Indeed. 23:32:50 Compile Homespring to BFM! 23:33:08 ,powers< 23:33:14 Or maybe just make a Brainfuck interpreter in Homespring. 23:33:29 (it has yet to be proven Turing complete) 23:33:36 how about a homespring interpreter in BF? 23:33:53 That's less evil. 23:34:01 you'd have to build some tricky data structures to do it properly 23:34:23 But at least it's *possible*. 23:34:24 has anyone made a good tree implementation in BF? 23:34:51 Implementing any Turing complete language in Homespring may very well be impossible. 23:34:53 ooh. they'd be *trivial* in Def-BF 23:34:53 I want a language that's more than turing complete 23:35:21 There are a few on the wiki. 23:35:37 bsmntbombdood: You want an oracle machine? 23:35:44 WHat's that? 23:35:48 the only problem is that they tend to lack implementation 23:35:58 bsmntbombdood: it isn't a machine, I'll tell you that 23:36:30 It's like a Turing machine, except it's got an oracle for telling the Turing machine the solution to a certain set of problems that are unsolvable by a Turing machine. 23:36:36 It would be possible to simulate it though, wouldn't it? 23:36:53 bsmntbombdood: no. that's the entire point. 23:36:59 For example, consider a Turing machine with a halting oracle. 23:37:05 an oracle cannot be a deterministic device. 23:37:17 This oracle could tell the machine if a certain program halts. 23:37:23 The machine itself could *not*. 23:37:46 can an x86 proccesor be implemented in a turing machine? 23:38:03 of course 23:38:14 but an x86 processor can't be an oracle 23:38:18 There are some uses of oracles in complexity theory where you put an oracle on a machine _weaker_ than Turing-complete. Then the result may still be implementable. 23:38:18 bsmntbombdood: Of course. An x86 processor is, after all, Turing complete (with the exception of addressing restrictions). 23:38:40 pikhq: An oracle machine is turing complete, but a turing machine can't implement it 23:39:02 it's not just turing complete, it's *super*-turing 23:39:11 bsmntbombdood: An oracle machine is super-Turing. 23:39:25 Well I was thinking that a normal proccesor might be more than turing complete 23:39:29 I'm listing the largest computational class that each machine is a member of. 23:39:52 A normal CPU's capabilities are a *subset* of the Turing machine's. 23:39:57 bsmntbombdood: you may not completely understand the meaning of turing-completeness 23:40:12 I might not 23:40:27 bsmntbombdood: A turing-complete system can calculate anything that can be described as a deterministic algorithm. 23:40:27 I'd advise you to read up on it- the wiki article on the subject is fascinating reading 23:41:57 pikhq: Then I understand the meaning of turing completeness 23:42:04 this is what Alan turing had to say about oracles- "Let us suppose that we are supplied with some unspecified means of solving number-theoretic problems; a kind of oracle as it were. We shall not go any further into the nature of this oracle apart from saying that it cannot be a machine" (Undecidable p. 167, a reprint of Turing's paper Systems of Logic Based On Ordinals)." 23:42:42 RodgerTheGreat: His thoughts were not entirely correct. 23:42:54 in what sense? 23:42:55 A quantum oracle could, in fact, be a machine. 23:43:04 The same for a real-RNG oracle. 23:43:25 quantum operations have not been *proven* to be non-deterministic. 23:43:34 A quantum computer is not super-Turing as far as we know. 23:43:46 Non-determinism is not enough for super-Turing. 23:43:59 But my point for real-RNG oracles? 23:44:11 oerjan: but it is at the very least a requisite for creating an oracle 23:44:51 Near as I can fathom, real RNGs could not be created via a deterministic algorithm. 23:45:23 Oracles are in fact deterministic by the usual definition: They always give the same answer to the same question. 23:45:33 which would further imply that they could not be created via a deterministic system 23:46:55 if a machine always gave the same answer to the same question, then it would be deterministic in the sense that it's behavior was governed by a predictable system 23:47:40 oerjan: A RNG oracle wouldn't be deterministic. 23:48:03 It wouldn't always give the same answer to the question "What is a random number I could use?". 23:48:50 However, a RNG oracle would not increase a Turing machine's ability to solve problems with well-definite answers. 23:49:26 that's because it's an entirely different kind of device 23:49:32 It wouldn't increase the ability to solve *deterministic* algorithms, but it would give the ability to solve some *nondeterministic* algorithms. 23:49:43 Because a Turing machine always has the option of calculating _all_ possible paths. 23:49:43 but both are examples of a super-turing machine 23:50:17 Since it can do something a plain ol' Turing machine can't, it is, by definition, super-Turing. 23:50:36 I suppose. 23:51:00 I'm just pointing out that random oracles and halting oracles are seperate types of devices 23:51:39 RodgerTheGreat: They differ in that one could be built, and another could *not*. 23:51:39 a random oracle won't help you solve the halting problem, but it *can* do something a turing machine can't 23:51:50 Can't you solve the halting problem by just running it? 23:52:11 bsmntbombdood: The halting problem has been proven to not be solvable by a Turing machine. 23:52:24 No, because the Turing machine needs to halt with an answer, even if the program doesn't. 23:52:37 oh, right 23:52:40 you can solve the halting problem in limited instances. You cannot solve the halting problem for a nontrivial program in a nontrivial amount of time 23:53:27 In addition, a Turing machine with a halting oracle can't solve the halting problem for any arbitrary algorithm running on itself. 23:54:12 in a pure functional language, can the compiler easily (not NP complete) determine the inverse of a function? 23:54:30 that would require a more powerful oracle, resulting in an infinite regression- rather like the homonculus theory of consciousness. 23:55:18 bsmntbombdood: Not easily, no. 23:55:27 an oracle can't solve the halting problem for a machine incorporating itself, but it may be able to solve the halting problem for another oracle. 23:55:56 And the pure functionality hasn't really got anything to do with it. 23:56:09 oerjan: yeah it does 23:56:13 RodgerTheGreat: Exactly. 23:56:14 Apart from the function you are taking inverses of, I presume. 23:56:18 it would be impossible to do in a function with side effects 23:56:33 s/in a/for a/ 23:57:47 I can come up with an example of a pure function that is uninvertable at all. ;) 23:57:56 Are we assuming that the function is one-to-one? If not then I believe finding an inverse of a polynomial-time function is in fact at least NP-complete. 23:58:01 mod10(x) returns x mod 10. 23:58:24 pikhq: not one to one 23:58:31 If it is one-to-one then it may be somewhat simpler than NP-complete, I believe that is an unsolved problem. 23:58:42 bsmntbombdood: I'm not thinking ATM. . . 23:58:49 The inverse could be a set for not one to one functions though 23:59:27 I came upon that issue on Wikipedia when investigating Sudoku. (In a sense the article there is subtly wrong)