00:00:08 Well, showing that an inverse _exists_ for a point is precisely NP-complete. 00:00:25 Finding _all_ inverses may be more than NP-complete. 00:00:55 Can't it do it the math way? 00:01:36 (All this assuming that the original function is polynomial-time, otherwise you would need N-something else. 00:02:53 bsmntbombdood: Sure, if the function is invertable. 00:03:40 aren't all pure functions invertable? 00:03:51 assuming you can return a set for non-one to one functions 00:04:02 Of course not. There are _constant_ functions! 00:04:39 return the set of all possible inputs, then 00:04:54 OK then. That is the inverse as a relation. 00:04:54 use minimal executation or whatever haskell calls it 00:04:59 The inverse would, obviously, not be a function. ;) 00:05:40 Lazy. It won't help in the least. As I say, determining whether the inverse set is non-empty _is_ NP-complete if the original function is in P. 00:06:29 I mean, for general P functions. Not every single one, of course. 00:07:32 Hmm, there is a subtlety there. 00:08:06 It could in fact be worse, if the inverses may be much larger than the function value. 00:08:16 -!- wooby has quit. 00:10:31 What you are asking in essence boils down to whether purely functional languages can easily solve NP-complete problems (the answer being no). 00:11:50 On the other hand, a purely functional language will allow you to write easily down an expression for the inverse. It's just not going to execute very fast. 00:14:12 You might want to read the recent Good Math/Bad Math blog thread about P/NP. The issue of defining NP by checking answers is very relevant to your question. 00:15:10 Enough spamming :) 00:17:24 hmph 00:18:05 Shouldn't you be able to do it algebraicly? 00:18:48 But solving boolean equations is NP-complete. 00:19:45 What do you mean boolean equations? 00:20:19 Equations using True, False, and, or, not. 00:20:33 hrm 00:22:01 Put it another way: When you "simplify" algebraic equations, in numbers or booleans, the expressions can blow up exponentially in size. 00:23:26 Just try to write out (a+1)(b+1)(c+1)...(z+1) using the distributive law... 00:23:46 yeah 00:24:20 If they didn't, then you would have an easy proof of P=NP. 00:25:40 Next I get asked to solve an equation in math class i'll say that it's NP and NP is too hard 00:25:43 :P 00:25:59 Heh :) 00:26:40 In fact if you were to ask for _integer_ solutions to your equations then it would not be just NP, but Turing-complete. 00:27:09 heh, a language based on it 00:30:39 I should write some kind of interpreter for my calculator 00:44:22 * bsmntbombdood feels like learning haskell 00:44:45 what's a good tutorial? 00:44:53 all the useless things we do with our time 00:47:29 Check out www.haskell.org 00:47:55 I see they have changed their main page style since last I was there... 00:48:42 * bsmntbombdood reads http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hal/docs/daume02yaht.pdf 00:49:11 mercury caused many revamps last year 00:50:01 mercury? on the haskell wiki? 00:50:20 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:50:28 mercury, in the skies 00:50:34 lazy evaluation sounds really neat 00:51:35 It is, although it has some bad effects such as it being very hard to reason about memory use. 00:53:31 Are we talking astronomy or astrology? 00:54:24 Yes. 00:54:57 Now that clears it up. 00:55:25 astrology, of course, couldn't be any other way in #esoteric 00:55:47 Well it could be mythology too. 00:56:01 man, it's not a /myth/ 00:56:12 Religion then. 00:56:28 i have hard facts & proofs 00:57:06 ("my guru said so") 00:57:11 And, more importantly and what confused me initially, it could have been the programming language Mercury, a logic language with much inheritance from Haskell. 00:57:23 ah curious coincidence 00:57:34 Syncronicity! 00:57:39 btw has anyone managed to get goedel to work? or, at least, steal its gramar and re-implement it? 00:57:42 There are no coincidences :) 00:57:50 *grammar 00:58:35 Haven't looked at that. 00:59:30 gah 00:59:40 no parentheses in haskell bugs me 00:59:53 You can add parentheses all you want :) 00:59:57 I know 01:00:08 sqrt 4*2 => 4.0 01:00:11 But I tend to get rid of as many as possible, using $ 01:00:16 that just doesn't make sense 01:00:26 oerjan: I don't know what $ is 01:00:37 Ah for functions. 01:00:51 You will note that math does the same for sin and cos. 01:01:26 Well, sqrt $ 4*2 => 2.8... 01:02:31 When you want to apply a function to something complicated, you can use $ instead of spaces. 01:02:45 does anything bind more tightly than function application? 01:03:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has left (?). 01:03:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 01:03:17 oops 01:03:19 The @ pattern match operator, which is considered a bug by some. 01:04:07 And of course brackets. 01:04:42 http://haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html 01:05:24 Actually the @ doesn't really occur in expressions, but patterns. So for expressions, no. 01:05:48 "f1 f2 x" ends up as "f1(f2, x)" right? 01:06:20 and "f1 $ f2 x" ends up as "f1(f2(x))" 01:06:39 More or less. 01:07:11 Although f1(f2, x) in Haskell is something different. 01:08:18 There are functions curry and uncurry to convert between f1 x y and f1 (x,y) 01:10:12 Actually there are various things that bind more tightly than application but they all involve brackets somehow. 01:23:49 -!- andreou has quit ("-"). 01:24:12 -!- ihope has joined. 01:25:45 ooh pretty 01:25:52 Pretty? 01:26:02 foldr max 0 list 01:26:06 That reminds me of some electronics thing I wanted to do for some reason. 01:26:52 maxlist l = foldr max 0 l 01:27:10 foldr max l ? 01:27:10 Pretty, but a bit buggy if the list has only negative elements. 01:27:16 foldr2 max l 01:27:30 isn't there something like that? 01:27:49 oerjan: yeah 01:27:52 foldr1? 01:28:00 maybe 01:28:22 It's foldr1 01:28:55 seems i don't remember everything anymore :\ 01:29:23 but, wouldn't be buggy that way 01:29:42 Except for an empty list. Can't have everything :) 01:29:57 would it crash then? 01:30:18 maxlist [] => 0 01:31:02 foldr1 would crash, yes. 01:31:05 maxlist l = foldr1 max l 01:31:08 yeah 01:31:29 i don't know haskell syntax well enought to do an if :) 01:31:49 but i think i remember all the functions there are 01:31:51 in-built 01:32:20 not by name tho 01:32:26 foldr2 lol 01:33:24 -!- wooby has joined. 01:33:56 Of course, maximum is itself a builtin, using foldr1. 01:39:51 of course, I only know of like 5 builtins 01:39:55 :P 01:41:29 hmph, emacs doesn't indent haskell very well 01:44:26 Haskell's indentation is very flexible, but it interacts with other tokens in such a way that emacs would need a complete parser to understand it. 01:47:30 Someone write a complete parser in Elisp, then. 01:47:42 The indentation system is flexible enough to handle it. 01:50:17 so, should one use "f $ -1" or "f (-1)"? 01:50:40 The latter I assume. 01:51:30 -!- andreou has joined. 01:52:48 $ is best for avoid many nested parentheses (although I use it a bit more than that). For example instead of f1 (f2 1 (f3 y z (f4 x))) you can have f1 $ f2 1 $ f3 y z $ f4 x 01:52:58 *avoiding 01:53:51 Is f $ -1 valid? 01:53:59 When you want to chain many functions. 01:54:11 I am pretty sure it is. 01:54:45 Yes it is. 01:54:47 Seems to be valid, yes. 01:56:43 While reading this tutorial, i'm crying at all the ineficientness 01:57:15 Like? 01:57:52 A recursive definition of filter 01:58:15 What's inefficient about that? 01:59:20 Note that if it is tail recursive the recursion may be optimized away. 01:59:57 tail recursion modulo cons? 02:01:04 I believe the ghc compiler optimizes away certain kinds of immediately used conses. 02:01:16 Then I guess it's not that bad 02:03:50 my_filter f [] = [] 02:03:55 my_filter f (x:xs) = if f x then x:my_filter f xs else my_filter f xs 02:06:48 filter_reverse f xs = filter_reverse' f xs rs; filter_reverse' _ [] rs = rs; filter_reverse' f (x:xs) rs | f x = filter_reverse' f xs (x:rs); filter_reverse' f (x:xs) rs | otherwise = filter_reverse' f xs rs 02:08:46 -!- digital_me has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:08:48 filter_reverse f xs = filter_reverse' f xs []; should be the beginning? 02:10:03 someone please explain if not :\ 02:10:19 You don't need to repeat the function before a second guard. 02:10:29 oklopol: I think so too. 02:10:53 oklopol: yes, it should be. 02:11:13 Or just say rs = [] :-) 02:13:32 -!- tgwizard has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:27:12 Now, bsmntbombdood, I take it there's a reason you haven't cloaked your bot. 02:27:34 !exec self.raw("JOIN #tapthru") 02:27:38 Huh? 02:27:41 ... 02:27:43 ~exec self.raw("JOIN #tapthru") 02:33:12 ~exec self.disconnect() 02:33:23 ~exec self.disconnect 02:33:57 ~exec self.raw("PART #tapthru") 02:35:22 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Resetting") 02:35:23 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit ("Resetting"). 02:35:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:37:46 -!- ShadowHntr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:38:07 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Resetting") 02:38:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:38:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:38:17 Wonderful. 02:39:10 Except for some reason it gave a quit message different from what you wrote... 02:40:11 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Oooh! Oooh!") 02:40:12 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:40:14 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:40:31 Someone pull up the RFC. 02:40:32 Weird... 02:40:47 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Now what?") 02:40:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:40:49 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:41:08 ~exec self.raw("QUIT") 02:41:09 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:41:11 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:41:23 ~exec self.raw("JOIN #gnu") 02:41:28 ihope used exactly the same command as I the first time, with different result. 02:41:39 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #gnu :Foo.") 02:41:41 And now no messages are passed on. 02:41:52 ~exec self.raw("PART #gnu") 02:42:02 Can you say "bot abuse"? 02:42:08 ~exec self.do_exec = None 02:42:14 Yes. 02:42:27 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Now what?") 02:42:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 02:42:30 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 02:42:32 Darn. 02:42:43 ~exec self.exec_execer = 3 02:42:56 ~exec 3 02:42:57 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Now what?") 02:43:11 ~exec This is my apple. 02:43:35 ~quit 02:43:39 Meh. 02:43:49 Um. 02:43:50 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye.") 02:43:59 Success! 02:44:11 !exec self.exec_execer = self 02:44:14 Huh? 02:44:18 ~exec self.exec_execer = self 02:44:19 -!- Plouj- has joined. 02:44:27 Wow, you made Plouj- join. 02:44:30 We have saved the bot from the evil villains :) 02:44:42 Indeed. 02:44:49 You've also killed all legitimate uses. 02:45:19 What's the command to make it quit, again? 02:45:21 ~raw QUIT 02:45:35 ~pexec self.raw("QUIT") 02:45:44 you guys must be really old, eh 02:45:51 ~cat Foo. 02:45:56 If 14 years old is really old... 02:46:02 I fear you've *really* destroyed it. 02:46:02 I believe ~exec is the only one that we could use. 02:46:14 14?! 02:46:25 bsmntbombdood: You might want to restart the bot. 02:46:35 That was the idea. Otherwise one of us would just have been tempted to do something evil again. 02:46:50 -_-' 02:46:59 We had to kill the bot to save it. 02:47:08 How ironic. 02:47:50 ~die 02:47:57 ~DIE 02:57:10 DIE BOT DIE LIKE YER MOTHER!!! 02:57:50 all this... wrath... 02:58:04 #esoteric should sponsor TV ads to keep kids away from programming 02:58:19 ihope, you really 14? 02:58:20 You will become like us! 02:58:28 andreou: Just one issue: some *want* to be just like us. 02:58:43 they're wrong 02:58:51 they should listen to Us. 02:58:51 * pikhq was one of those kids 02:59:09 i think most of the lurkers here are 02:59:23 coding at night, psychotherapy at morning 03:03:52 pikhq: wtf did you do 03:03:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:04:00 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 03:04:16 bsmntbombdood: I didn't! 03:04:23 It was oerjan! 03:05:12 heh 03:05:55 Actually it was ihope, i just tempted him to it. 03:13:25 ~exec sys.stdout(os.list_dir("/bot")) 03:13:35 hm... 03:13:48 os.listdir 03:13:57 ~exec sys.stdout(os.listdir("/bot")) 03:13:58 ['betterbot.py', 'test.pickle', 'start.sh', 'better.sh', 'ircbot.py'] 03:14:01 cheers 03:14:05 -!- andreou has quit. 03:14:09 -!- andreou has joined. 03:14:15 -!- andreou has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:14:47 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 03:17:37 ~exec open("/bot/ircbot.py", "w"); self.raw("QUIT") 03:17:58 why, how curious :) 03:18:05 oerjan: obviously, you don't have write permission to the source 03:18:28 that's an easy root exploit right there 03:19:28 ~exec open("/foo", "w") 03:19:36 But can you write anywhere? 03:19:44 . . . Oh, right. It's chrooted, isn't it? 03:19:48 yeah 03:19:53 ~exec self.raw("QUIT") 03:19:54 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit. 03:19:56 Smart of you. 03:19:59 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 03:20:03 whoa 03:20:05 wtf 03:20:21 You didn't know about that? 03:20:44 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :I win!") 03:20:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 03:20:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 03:20:58 oh, I misread 03:22:05 pikhq: Yeah, like i'm going to give you access the whole filesystem ;) 03:22:52 bsmntbombdood: Well, there *is* an exploit for breaking out of chroots. 03:23:05 needs root, doesn't it? 03:23:28 It needs cd. 03:24:00 ~exec os.list_dir("./") 03:24:07 os.listdir 03:24:16 ~exec sys.stdout(os.listdir("./")) 03:24:16 ['bin', 'bot', 'etc', 'lib', 'usr'] 03:24:31 ~exec os.changedir("..") 03:24:40 ~exec sys.stdout(os.listdir("./")) 03:24:41 ['bin', 'bot', 'etc', 'lib', 'usr'] 03:24:51 Thought that was it. Damn it, must have forgotten. 03:25:08 I've seen that exploit, and iirc it needs root 03:25:30 Ah. 03:25:35 ~exec sys.stdout(os.getuid()) 03:25:36 1343 03:25:47 :) 03:27:20 But whoever tells me the contents of /home/bsmntbombdood/proof.txt gets a prize 03:29:03 ~exec fid=open("/home/bsmntbombdood/proof.txt", "r") 03:29:16 hah, yeah right 03:29:19 pikhq: #bsmnt_bot_errors 03:29:31 bsmntbombdood: Hey, it was worth a try. 03:29:31 IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/bsmntbombdood/proof.txt' 03:29:54 I can tell you the contents of ~/proof.txt, then. 03:29:59 ^d 03:30:20 ? 03:30:26 EOF. 03:30:34 oh 03:31:30 -!- Plouj- has left (?). 03:32:42 BORING?! 03:35:45 ~exec OOOOSO 03:36:10 sleepzors -> 03:37:39 how can "let" in haskell be functional 03:37:57 ~exec (lambda f : f(f)) (lambda f : f(f)) 03:37:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 03:38:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 03:38:25 weird 03:38:26 It defines a name for an expression. 03:39:02 not executing has a different effect than executing it 03:39:26 How so? 03:39:58 it has to be executed before what follows 03:40:33 In fact it doesn't. It only defines the names, their expressions are not used unless the names are. 03:42:19 ~exec sys.stdin("This is just wrong.") 03:42:40 wrong indeed 03:42:47 On the other hand the case statement fits your objection better. 03:43:07 hmmm, I should provide an channel interface to sys.stdin 03:43:09 * pikhq wonders if it's possible to write to stdin in any language. . . 03:44:29 it could be in a language where there's only one IO stream 03:44:35 Well, in Kayak and Lazy K, stdin turns into stdout according to how the program changes it. 03:44:36 stdout and stdin are the same 03:44:49 * pikhq also wonders if that language is called INTERCAL 03:45:19 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 03:45:19 read(stdout);write(stdin, "whoo"); See? Evil. 03:45:20 Apart from the I/O commands being READ OUT and WRITE IN... 03:54:51 -!- zantrua has joined. 03:56:13 -!- zantrua has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:57:35 -!- zantrua has joined. 03:58:03 Hello all. 03:59:37 -!- zantrua has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:02:15 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:02:18 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:04:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:04:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:06:13 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:06:20 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:06:49 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:06:54 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:10:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:10:15 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:10:33 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:10:39 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:10:46 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 04:10:49 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:10:57 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:11:05 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:11:55 ~exec sys.stdout("QUIT :Excess Flood") 04:11:56 QUIT :Excess Flood 04:12:06 . . . 04:12:20 ~exec self.raw("QUIT :Excess Flood") 04:12:20 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 04:12:21 ... 04:12:22 That's what I meant. 04:12:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:12:30 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:12:39 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:12:50 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:12:59 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:13:05 ~exec quit 04:13:40 * pikhq leaves 04:13:43 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:17:13 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 04:28:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:28:40 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:29:48 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:29:52 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:30:23 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:30:29 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:31:30 Good grief, "HNOP. Ashley Yakeley updated the status of HNOP, the Haskell library for doing nothing." 04:31:47 heh 04:32:38 "It has recently been split into two Cabal packages: 'nop', a library of no-op services, and 'hnop', a program that uses nop to do nothing." 04:32:43 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:32:46 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:33:15 And strangely enough it is _not_ merely a joke. 04:34:25 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:34:27 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:34:34 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:34:37 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:36:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:37:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:37:19 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:37:23 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:37:43 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:37:51 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:38:27 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:38:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:38:38 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:38:44 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:39:23 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:39:29 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:40:20 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:40:25 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:40:46 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:40:51 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:41:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 04:41:56 cool 04:42:05 maybe i'll make a language for doing nothing 04:42:25 nopbol 04:42:26 heh guys sorry about the spam 04:42:34 spam is nice 04:42:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:42:48 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:46:53 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:46:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:47:07 ~raw PART #esoteric 04:47:08 -!- bsmnt_bot has left (?). 04:48:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:49:41 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:49:48 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:50:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:50:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:54:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 04:54:33 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:54:37 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:54:44 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:54:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:54:53 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:55:52 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:55:58 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:56:13 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:56:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 04:56:50 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Client Quit). 04:56:53 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:00:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 05:00:05 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:06:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit. 05:06:30 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:06:40 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Excess Flood). 05:06:46 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:08:05 heh 05:11:55 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:15:10 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:18:33 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:18:35 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:19:34 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:19:36 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:20:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:20:53 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:21:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:22:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:23:11 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:23:13 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:26:39 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:26:42 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:27:30 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:27:33 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:29:29 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:29:31 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:30:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:30:31 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 05:31:40 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:31:43 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:15:42 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:16:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:16:19 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:16:50 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:17:51 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:17:54 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:18:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:18:04 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:18:11 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:18:20 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:19:12 mmm... I like writing interpreters. 06:19:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:19:43 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 06:19:44 it's always fun to imagine the semantics reducing to the most fundamental parts of the language. 06:21:58 This is great, my language is the nicest language I've ever seen for writing recursive data structures, but all you can do is nop :) 06:22:50 I guess the beautiful syntax and the nice way of structuring makes up for the fact you can't really do anything? 06:23:01 Sure. 06:23:20 * CakeProphet is trying to find a clever languagge joke that won't offend anyone. 06:23:33 Like "It worked for Ruby" or something... 06:23:47 but nothing comes to mind. 06:24:28 I'm not making a joke language. 06:25:17 This might actually be a very good language for teaching structures for example :) 06:25:49 a weird variation of lambda calculus might work for that. 06:26:07 for abstraction and stuff. 06:26:09 I still haven't understood that language 06:26:19 me neither. 06:26:22 not the specifics. 06:26:24 Might work for what? 06:27:02 but in general.... it's a very clear demonstration of how invidual basic parts can be grouped together to form abstracted procedures. 06:27:44 if you assign certain strings of lambdas a given name... and substitute the name instead of the functions whenever they arise 06:28:37 and continue doing that... you can quickly amass a logical stucture. 06:29:12 quick always seems to be the most powerful way to demonstrate abstraction. 06:29:20 if you can write it out quickly. 06:31:36 hmm... what is the most complex thing written in lambda calculus? 06:31:55 I've heard it's nothing. 06:31:56 :) 06:56:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:24:27 -!- ShadowHntr has quit ("End of line."). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:53:25 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:49:46 -!- tgwizard has joined. 11:12:05 -!- jix has joined. 11:13:15 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit). 12:40:44 -!- jix has joined. 12:56:03 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 12:59:14 -!- jix has joined. 13:04:51 -!- andreou has joined. 13:05:02 greets 13:48:56 -!- ihope has joined. 13:49:18 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit). 14:10:02 -!- andreou has quit ("BitchX: faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive"). 14:10:26 -!- andreou has joined. 15:53:04 -!- ihope has joined. 15:54:16 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :uelauelaue") 15:54:17 uelauelaue 15:54:19 Yay! 15:57:15 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 16:24:40 bsmnt_bot: exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric laueluaeleualeu") 16:52:45 eh how do i find any ircops? /who -what? 17:21:57 -!- andreou has quit ("recycle"). 17:33:26 -!- andreou has joined. 17:41:40 /stats p 17:41:52 Or something else. Lemme see... 17:43:15 I guess /who *@freenode/staff* 17:43:28 ...Or not. 17:44:02 Then it's probably/who *freenode/staff* 17:45:04 the latter is true, i found a few, but they're all idle :) 17:45:48 notabot might not be. 17:46:05 27 hrs :) 18:03:39 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa"). 18:05:48 ~ 18:10:04 ~? 18:13:30 #! 18:28:37 -!- ShadowHntr has joined. 18:29:52 ~?# 18:30:57 woot 18:30:59 cons x y = \f -> f x y 18:30:59 car c = c (\x y -> x) 18:30:59 cdr c = c (\x y -> y) 18:35:11 * bsmntbombdood is clever 18:38:51 -!- digital_me has joined. 18:41:27 bsmntbombdood: congrats, you just expressed the standard definition of an ordered pair in lambda calculus in Haskell notation. 18:42:49 yep 18:45:43 (,), fst, snd... 18:49:28 How do we represent the empty list? 18:53:11 and why doesn't my_map f list = cons (f (car list)) (my_map f (cdr list)) work? 19:14:14 I can't figure out what's wrong 19:20:55 Lists would be completely different. 19:21:42 A list would be represented as its own foldr function. 19:23:39 cons x xs = \c e -> c x (xs c e) 19:23:41 ...I think. 19:23:50 empty = \c e -> e 19:24:09 foldr c e xs = xs c e 19:24:31 huh? 19:24:40 -!- andreou has quit ("-"). 19:25:16 I think that's how lists are generally represented in lambda calculus. 19:25:22 That's the typable way. 19:26:05 And by typable way, I mean using Haskell's type system. 19:27:06 Either the Hindley-Milner type system or the Damas-Milner type system. Both different names for the same thing, I think. 19:29:53 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 19:42:09 * bsmntbombdood requests SICP from the library 20:01:37 -!- ihope has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 20:04:13 I accidently discovered a simple way of turing algebraic datatypes into collections of lambda calculus functions. 20:04:37 Each value of the type takes one function per constructor. 20:05:31 A constructor calls one of its arguments with the containted data and ignores the other arguments. 20:05:52 e.g. a list datum takes two arguments. 20:06:46 The first is called for a cons, and is passed the car and cdr of the list. The second is called for a nil and takes no arguments. 20:07:18 cons a b = (\x y -> x a b) 20:07:31 nil = (\x y -> y) 20:07:33 tada! 20:55:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:34:11 -!- andreou has joined. 21:40:16 -!- jix__ has joined. 21:43:21 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 21:57:56 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:02:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:31:28 and that is in haskell ? 22:31:36 i'd much rather do that in FORTRAN... ;) 22:33:46 -!- wooby has quit. 22:36:06 hmmm.. 22:36:30 Is this the proper regex pattern for an ORK class definition? 22:36:32 re.compile(r"there is such a thing as an? (?P.*?)\.? *$(?P(.*?$)*)", re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE) 22:36:46 oh wait... 22:37:44 re.compile(r"there is such an? (?P.*?) as an? (?P.*?)\:? *$(?P(.*?$)*)", re.MULTILINE|re.IGNORECASE) 22:37:58 I forgot the first part ends with a colon... and that I'm including metaclasses :D 22:53:24 -!- ihope has joined. 22:56:11 hmmm... 22:56:17 yeah it looks about right,. 22:59:05 Yes, it does. 22:59:14 Well, almost, anyway. 22:59:28 It's just a little bit off 22:59:46 Now, care to tell me just what it is that looks about right? 22:59:53 hrhr 23:00:17 "there is such an? (?P.*?) as an? (?P.*?)\:? *$(?P(.*?$)*)" with multiline and ignorecase turned on. 23:00:34 well... the colon isn't optional. 23:00:36 or is it? 23:00:43