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01:02:30 <fizzie> I guess I'm left with /, then.
01:07:32 <fizzie> I hope my character was a correct U+205D TRICOLON (also called "Epidaurean acrophonic symbol three"); it looks correct elsewhere but not in this terminal. :/
01:08:44 <oerjan> i'm afraid even on second attempt I just got the usual square...
01:42:19 <oerjan> well it's simple in lambda calculus, but i don't know about SKI.
01:58:59 <oerjan> and of course ``S`KxI = x
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02:09:41 <SevenInchBread> I accidentally created an algorithm that produces (I think) a circle or maybe an ellipsis (I could only see half of it because the turtle window wasn't big enough)
02:10:01 <SevenInchBread> I'll pastebin it so someone can explain the math behind it.
02:14:49 <bsmntbombdood> what are some multiple argument extensional simplifications?
02:16:26 <oerjan> i think it may be simpler to convert to lambda calculus, eta-reduce, then convert back.
02:17:24 <oerjan> \x.fx = f where f does not contain x
02:18:33 <oerjan> plus some beta-reductions too, i guess.
02:18:37 <SevenInchBread> so... any clue why the numbers behave in such a way to create a circle(like) shape?
02:19:48 <bsmntbombdood> But a SKI interpreter shouldn't need a lambda calculus interpreter
02:19:50 <SevenInchBread> hmm... changing the right() method call to left() simply makes a smaller circle... weird
02:20:38 <oerjan> the only changing parameter is dist.
02:22:09 <SevenInchBread> yup... it just goes back and forth betwen true and false.
02:22:56 <oerjan> essentially dict just fluctuates in some interval.
02:24:18 <SevenInchBread> I looks almost like a perfect circle to me... although it could be oblongated mathematically.
02:24:54 <oerjan> _anything_ that goes through a lot of identical small turtle movements must create a circle.
02:25:30 <oerjan> because each cycle will move by the same amount, then turn the same amount.
02:26:38 <SevenInchBread> darn... I thought I might have found some weird mathematical pattern.
02:27:11 <SevenInchBread> ... 8, 3, and 5 (the only numbers I used other than phi) are all heavily related with phi.
02:27:28 <SevenInchBread> ...I picked them mainly because they're a few of my favorite numbers.
02:27:57 <oerjan> i believe any change in the constants which doesn't cause dist to diverge will still produce a circle.
02:28:51 <SevenInchBread> until then I just got freaky scribble patterns... for an unrelated alg using a bunch of randomly pieced together computations.
02:29:11 <oerjan> you might change dist by functions that don't match quite as well as *= prod and /= prod
02:29:56 <oerjan> then dist could change in a more complicated pattern.
02:31:09 <SevenInchBread> changing it to exponentiation makes the circle spin in a very tight spiral to the right... like the original except veering to the right very slightly each loop.
02:31:50 <SevenInchBread> still a cyclic interval though... the distance is simply being gradually altered.
02:32:35 <oerjan> i think that must be roundoff errors in the Turtle graphics. It they were perfect you couldn't go in a particular direction.
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02:36:40 <SevenInchBread> hmm... switching to decimal representation made exponentiation no longer work with phi as the exponent.
02:42:20 <SevenInchBread> bah... using Decimal just makes the floating point math done in the turtle module screw up.
02:44:44 <SevenInchBread> hmmm... is decimal arithmetic considerably slower than good ol' floating point?
03:08:29 <SevenInchBread> I was thinking for Sophia I could automatically convert between floating point, long intergers, short integers, and decimally-represented numbers without having to worry about it.
03:09:21 <SevenInchBread> ...as long as there's a way to predict which floating point operations won't be accurate... you could convert to decimal format for the operations.
03:12:04 <SevenInchBread> it basically mimics "schoolhouse" algorithms for doing math... so it's more accurate but takes more time
03:12:25 <oerjan> decimal format is not that much better.
03:13:00 <oerjan> you'll have to round off eventually, in any case.
03:15:11 <oerjan> adding more bits increases accuracy just as much as adding more decimals.
03:15:43 <SevenInchBread> It's mostly used in nitpicky computations... like finance and science...
03:15:53 <oerjan> yeah, but even they only work for arithmetic
03:16:03 <oerjan> just finance, i think.
03:16:29 <oerjan> and that's not really because decimals are more accurate.
03:17:22 <oerjan> it's because financial calculations are strictly defined by old traditions from before there were binary computers.
03:19:05 <SevenInchBread> aaah.... legal standardization more so than any gains in accuracy.
03:19:30 <bsmntbombdood> ``````````aaaaaaaaaaa takes like 5 minutes to return
03:19:44 <oerjan> the more simplifications you try to catch the closer you get to having to solve the halting problem :)
03:20:15 <oerjan> although that does sound like maybe you need a better algorithm
03:20:22 <oerjan> or maybe you have bugs.
03:20:43 <oerjan> as in, repeating work bugs
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23:00:18 <GregorR> I wrote a runtime ELF loader 8-D
23:00:35 <GregorR> It segfaults mysteriously >_> ... but only after the program has finished.
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