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00:30:30 <RodgerTheGreat> if I had shirts with pockets, I'd wear one all the time
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00:31:19 <bsmntbombdood> I can see myself using a pocket protector, if I wore shirts with pockets
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00:52:15 <lament> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=1375971&tstart=0
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00:57:43 <RodgerTheGreat> I never find myself needing more than the first seven- I've never really tried memorizing them
01:00:36 <lament> that's what impressed me
01:00:53 <lament> although his technique is pretty nice too
01:01:11 <lament> bsmntbombdood: how did you memorize it?
01:01:16 <RodgerTheGreat> it's often easy to memorize sequences of numbers by their spoken "beat"
01:01:48 <RodgerTheGreat> sine-cosine-cosine-sine-three-point-one-four-one-five-nine and the like
01:02:49 <lament> this is probably made easier if you combine some groups of 2 digits into one number
01:03:07 <lament> three fourteen fifteen etc
01:03:48 <RodgerTheGreat> what's interesting about John Conway is that among this crowd, he's a celebrity, whereas most places nobody would bat an eyelash at the name
01:06:22 <RodgerTheGreat> lament: yeah- chunking numbers is another extremely effective way of reducing the difficulty of memorizing things
01:10:36 <bsmntbombdood> it breaks itself up into easily memorizable pieces
01:12:54 <RodgerTheGreat> another way to "memorize" it could be to memorize an algorithm for finding successive places....
01:14:41 <RodgerTheGreat> before you've played with esolangs, something like BF is difficult to wrap your head around. Now, it comes naturally to all of us.
01:22:25 <RodgerTheGreat> one of the reasons I like esolangs is the fact that they have a way of liberating one's mind with respect to programming.
01:22:59 <RodgerTheGreat> I feel sad for people who only think of programming in terms of C++ and Java
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03:06:07 <Sgeo> Today is (ln -1)/i day!
03:10:41 <Sgeo> Whatever that turns out to be equivelent to?
03:31:23 <lament> bsmntbombdood: i like conway's division more than yours :)
03:31:41 * lament memorized pi to 30 places with conway's thing
03:32:27 <lament> his is almost like a poem
03:33:22 <lament> "1415 9265 35" - rhymes
03:35:07 <lament> 8979 (rhyme) 3238 (rhyme the other way) 4626 (rhyme) 4338 (rhymes with the second quadruplet)
03:36:12 <RodgerTheGreat> just express rhymes like you would if you were analyzing poetry: ABAB
03:36:57 <bsmntbombdood> Next time I have to write some poetry for class I'm just going to mark v. shaney some poe
03:43:18 <RodgerTheGreat> it would be interesting writing a program that would translate a sentence into a series of numbers that had the same rythm when read
03:44:01 <RodgerTheGreat> it might be as simple as assigning numbers based on rhyme pairs
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03:48:04 <GreaseMonkey> sorry bout that, accidentally connected twice D:
03:48:31 <RodgerTheGreat> I was wondering if it was you and your bot or something
03:50:24 <RodgerTheGreat> GreaseMonkey: how do you think we should celebrate the upcoming pi day?
03:52:56 <RodgerTheGreat> terms usually alternate in a mclaurin series (which that vaguely resembles) or stay constant
03:55:55 <bsmntbombdood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_formula_for_pi
03:56:24 <RodgerTheGreat> that sounds clumsy to calculate, unless we use metric time or something
04:02:28 <RodgerTheGreat> we should write a "pidaydaemon" that interrupts whatever you're doing with the terminal at the precise moment of pi day and encourages you to celebrate
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12:55:47 <oerjan> all this talk about celebrating pi at 3/14 1:59 (GMT/GMT-pi) and none of the Americans noticed that those times had long since passed.
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22:23:56 <bsmntbombdood> C is a sad language, because most lines end with );
22:29:24 <RodgerTheGreat> even worse, all those curly brackets make fun of people with cleft palates- :{
22:30:09 <RodgerTheGreat> 'course, that exact combination doesn't happen very often that I can think of...
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22:38:40 <oerjan> is :{ possible in C at all?
22:39:31 <oerjan> can an expression begin with just { ?
22:41:31 <RodgerTheGreat> I know one way it's *possible*, but not in a functional expression
22:41:58 <GregorR> struct foo a = { b:{stuff in a.b} };
22:42:16 <GregorR> I haven't used that syntax in a while, I may be a bit off ;)
22:43:06 <oerjan> indeed it seems a bit weird to have that inner { }
22:43:41 <GregorR> Well, that much I know is legit :)
22:43:51 <GregorR> If a struct contains a struct, and you're declaring one statically, that's how you do it.
22:50:53 <oerjan> found a BNF for C at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/bnf/c_syntax.bnf
22:51:10 <oerjan> however, i cannot make your suggestion parse with it.
22:51:34 <oerjan> first, it's = not : but that is not so important.
22:52:04 <oerjan> worse is that the part to the right of = cannot contain a nested struct.
22:53:21 <oerjan> the _outer_ ={ still works.
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22:54:05 <oerjan> it could of course be an erroneous BNF.
22:57:13 <oerjan> oh, and label :{ block } works.
22:59:09 <oerjan> or, less goto-tainted: case const :{ block }
22:59:45 <oerjan> which looks like it could actually be used.
23:01:59 <GregorR> Oh, heheh, the syntax I gave was D :P
23:03:24 <oerjan> I guess it is probably also available in modern C compilers, being an obvious gap in the original language.
23:06:38 <GregorR> C is my native language. It was difficult learning an ... unstructured language like English when I was a boy.
23:06:47 <fizzie> struct foo a = { .b = initializer_for_field_b }; is C99 (and a GCC extension for other modes).
23:08:43 <fizzie> Same goes for arrays; int array[256] = { [42] = 1, [69] = 1 }; works if you want to initialize few elements to 1 and keep the rest as 0.
23:10:07 <fizzie> Well, full C99-compliant compilers aren't anywhere yet, so I'm not sure it's sensible to use in published code. Perhaps in GCC-specific projects, though.
23:11:48 <oerjan> hm... you could extend that to function memoing.
23:12:12 <fizzie> See chapter 6.7.8 Initialization in your friendly ISO/IEC 9899:1999 standard; the syntax is "initializer-list: designation_opt initializer --" and a designator can be either "[ constant-expression ]" or ". identifier".
23:12:33 <bsmntbombdood> http://eden.dei.uc.pt/~machado/research/bb/BB.html
23:12:56 <oerjan> int fib(int n) { return (fib(n) = fib(n-1)+ fib(n-2)); } = { (0) = 0, (1) = 1 };
23:13:35 <fizzie> That might be a "bit" too high-level to exactly be very C-like.
23:13:51 <oerjan> hey, i'm just generalizing :)
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23:17:13 <oerjan> i saw mention of one with a good graphical interface, perhaps at Good Math/Bad Math.
23:17:34 <fizzie> I had a Turing machine interpreter written in Befunge and syntax-highlighted in the great "messy HTML table with a dozen different background colors for various functional regions" fashion, but I lost it. :/
23:17:42 <fizzie> The "user interface" wasn't very friendly, though.
23:18:16 <fizzie> abA!6!0!a!1!A!R!0!b!5!b!R!1!a!1!a!R!1!b!2!b!R!2!a!2!a!R!2!A!3!A!L!2!!!3!!
23:18:24 <fizzie> Ngah, borken copypaste.
23:18:53 <oerjan> oh and Mark CC wrote an interpreter himself too
23:18:53 <fizzie> Well, you just fed it a string a bit like that, except that it's not supposed to cut off there, the example I was trying to copypaste continues for a while.
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23:19:49 <oerjan> http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/02/basics_the_turing_machine_with_1.php
23:20:44 <oerjan> a bit verbose syntax though
23:21:05 <lament> it is a shame that one of the most historically important esoteric languages is not even recognized as such
23:21:16 <lament> all because Turing used a different terminology
23:22:57 <oerjan> the JFLAP mentioned in the same thread was the good one i was thinking of.
23:23:00 <lament> turing machines are programs in this language
23:23:25 <oerjan> (not that i have tested it myself)
23:23:28 <lament> the language does not have a name or syntax. I find that to be a shame. :)
23:23:49 <oerjan> you could say the same about combinatory logic.
23:24:05 <oerjan> except that does have a name and syntax
23:24:44 <lament> it makes sense to talk of a "combinatory logic" language, in which something like "s k" is a program
23:25:40 <oerjan> among turing tarpits, the distinction between "computational model" and "esoteric language" is mainly based on the apparent seriousness of the inventor.
23:26:07 <lament> yes, yes, and yet, combinatory logic and lambda calculus are both easily accepted as languages
23:26:23 <fizzie> I think the automagical homework checking eggine in one of our courses was JFLAP-based.
23:26:24 <lament> and turing machines aren't because the terminology used by the inventor is just too bizarre
23:26:28 <bsmntbombdood> With a halting oracle, the max-shifts function is computable
23:27:06 <bsmntbombdood> generate all n-state turing machines, remove ones that don't halt, then run them all
23:29:29 <oklopol> i could do that standing on my head
23:30:35 <lament> your MOM doesn't halt!
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