00:01:08 -!- Tweek888 has joined. 00:03:52 could someone slap fax and cmeme with a trout? 00:03:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:04:07 I could 00:04:11 but why? 00:04:17 texting 00:04:19 testing* 00:04:38 and for lack of creativity. 00:05:23 oerjan: It's Eratosthene's sieve, indeed. 00:05:53 And that suggestion, while not making a difference as far as the algorithm is concerned, makes the code shorter. . . 00:07:01 do I just say functions in plain english? 00:07:19 . . . Scratch that, it doesn't work with <=. 00:07:34 Wihtout, that is. 00:08:10 it should make a difference, because you are otherwise using the element a[10000] which doesn't exist 00:08:15 . . . Oh. 00:08:26 I ended up using = instead of <. 00:08:51 I think that why it works is pure chance. . . 00:09:04 There we go. 00:09:06 in principle the old version has a memory access error 00:09:10 m(){n;f(h=1;h Yeah. 00:11:15 New version up. 00:13:43 please print pi to the ten thousandths place. 00:13:44 ;/ 00:14:20 10basePi. 00:14:43 tricky. 00:16:14 please enumerate pi to the ten thousandths place and newline say :O 00:16:47 3.1415 00:17:09 :O 00:17:24 this is fun 00:17:25 :D 00:20:02 print currently playing song from media player 00:20:23 error: term 'media player' undefined 00:21:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:22:21 Relient K - For The Moments I Feel Faint - The Anatomy of the Tongue in Cheek. 2001. 00:22:57 Who said anything about it being *your* media player? 00:23:44 no one 00:24:20 print what user Tweek888 is thinking 00:24:49 sex sex sex sex sex drugs sex 00:24:53 ERROR: libpsychic.so.1 cannot be found. 00:25:03 lament won 00:25:06 :/ 00:27:11 lib sexy chic? 00:27:47 must be 00:32:29 ERROR: libsexychic.so.1 can be found; psychic != sexychic. 00:36:19 but they only have a levenshtein distance of 3 00:38:05 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:38:31 please stop 00:38:35 please hammertime 00:43:20 -!- Tweek888 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:46:05 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 00:46:15 was sappening 00:46:39 psychic irp 00:46:41 crazy stuffff 00:47:09 or possibly irp spyware 00:48:38 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 00:49:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:49:52 YAAAAAAAAY! 00:50:03 My new DPlof interpreter can run PlofPlof properly! 00:50:08 No more deep recursion for me :P 00:51:40 * Robdgreat awards GregorR a Gregor Snax(tm) 00:51:54 PlofPlof? 00:52:15 Could you link to the D compiler again, please? 00:53:36 http://downloads.dsource.org/projects/tango/0.97/tango-0.97-forDSSS-gdc-i686-pc-linux-gnu-withDSSS-withGDC.sh 00:54:14 pikhq_: My intention is to use DPlof just to get Plof (the one in Plof) working. Then I'll make Plof target C (as well as interpretation), and bingo, CPlof. 00:54:32 What does PlofPlof compile to now? 00:54:41 (Just interpret?) 00:55:02 compiles to plof, obviously 00:55:02 It just parses now :P 00:55:06 Ah. 00:55:11 It's not finished. 00:55:19 I had to leave it for a while because DPlof couldn't run it X-P 00:55:20 I assume you wouldn't mind my help in PlofPlof? 00:55:28 Not in the least. 00:56:12 DPlof is damn slow, but like I said, it's temporary. 00:57:42 builtins.d:31: module Stdout cannot read file 'tango/io/Stdout.d' 00:57:46 Uh. . . Help? 00:58:12 How are you building it? 00:58:37 (Hint: The correct way is `dsss build`) 00:58:47 Ah. 00:59:30 Would it kill you to use standard build tools? 01:00:02 Whatever build tool you think is standard, it isn't for D. 01:01:11 Um. . . You're not allowed to use make and autoconf? 01:01:14 WTF? 01:01:23 Make and autoconf are the way they are because of limitations in C. 01:02:06 [Oh, and, no, autoconf does not work with D] 01:02:18 Autoconf, not surprised; that is C-specific. . . 01:02:21 But make?!? 01:02:29 Make is nothing-specific, and that's what's so bad about it. 01:02:36 -_-' 01:02:38 Could I use make? Yes. But it would be a gigantic pain in the ass. 01:02:41 well make a dummy makefile then 01:02:57 Make, a pain in the ass? 01:03:06 . . . Oh. 01:03:15 Looking at dsss.conf. Jebus, that's handy. 01:03:52 D has a more pure way of listing dependencies in source files. 01:03:59 As such, listing all source files in a Makefile is redundant. 01:04:23 Now if only I could get the damned thing to build. 01:04:31 What's the issue? 01:04:42 /tmp/ccdreAhw.s:7624: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `push' 01:04:42 /tmp/ccdreAhw.s:7634: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `pop' 01:04:45 Ad infinitum. 01:04:55 ... this is building dplof? 01:04:59 Yes. 01:05:05 That's one weird error. 01:05:34 Could you try `dsss build -m32` ? 01:05:51 Same. 01:06:06 I get the feeling something weird is happening. 01:06:15 Hm. I'm thinking maybe that binary's gdc expects a 32-bit only ld. 01:06:24 I'm thinking so. 01:06:48 And I, in my stupidity, overwrote /usr/bin/gdc. 01:06:59 Heh ^^ 01:07:43 I usually install stuff to /opt/whatever :) 01:07:48 why so many layers? 01:07:53 You think I could get a binary tarball of Dplof? 01:07:57 Sure. 01:07:58 One sec. 01:08:01 GregorR> pikhq_: My intention is to use DPlof just to get Plof (the one in Plof) working. Then I'll make Plof target C (as well as interpretation), and bingo, CPlof. 01:08:12 bsmntbombdood: That's called "Self-hosting". 01:08:24 I know, and it's a waste 01:08:33 Lisp begs to differ. 01:08:58 Even Brainfuck can self-host. Why not Plof? 01:08:59 That's a waste, how? 01:09:11 of time 01:09:18 No, it's not. 01:09:30 Damned useful, actually. 01:09:31 it _can_ do it, but that doesn't mean someone should write it all 01:09:43 bsmntbombdood: Compiling to C is quite useful. 01:09:48 And I bet that Plof'd get more popularity if Dplof weren't a build requirement. 01:09:49 yes 01:09:52 Err. 01:09:53 D. 01:09:54 bsmntbombdood: The fact that that gives me Plof in C for free is just a side-effect. 01:09:58 so just write a plof->c compiler 01:10:04 He is. 01:10:10 It just happens to be in Plof. 01:10:11 without a dplof of plofplof 01:11:13 Dplof will be abandoned once Plof works. 01:11:30 pikhq_: http://www.codu.org/plof.tar.gz 01:11:36 Err 01:11:38 pikhq_: http://www.codu.org/dplof.tar.gz 01:13:09 Disclaimer: dplof may have (and probably does have) obscure bugs :) 01:13:46 Like file IO segfaulting? 01:14:10 Errr? :P 01:14:15 plof looks pretty boring 01:14:37 Oh no, I am so offended, blah blah etc? 01:14:51 yeah 01:14:59 something like that 01:15:01 :) 01:16:14 pikhq_: I'm not seeing fileio segfaulting ... 01:16:32 GregorR: It's probably an issue with multilib. 01:17:05 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:18:07 . . . Except stdio works. 01:18:42 Heh :P 01:18:43 Moral of the story: Dplof and x86_64 don't mix. 01:18:48 Foob. 01:19:02 CPlof should be easier to get to mix, though. 01:19:51 Yuh. 01:19:55 That's part of the intention :) 01:21:43 * pikhq_ has the prom tomorrow. . . Whooo. . . 01:29:28 heh 01:29:38 I remember the prom ... I didn't go. 01:29:43 Best decision I ever made. 01:30:03 prom was last weekend at my school 01:30:52 should i put "prom" on my list of advantages to not being from the US? :) 01:31:25 Yes. 01:31:39 GregorR: what's wrong with prom? 01:31:47 What /isn't/? 01:33:25 i dunno... 01:33:53 Godawful music, annoying people, neverending social stigma, weeeeeeh. 01:34:33 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 01:34:55 Prom is, I assume, much better if you've got a date. 01:35:11 Like I do. . . 01:35:15 Heh 01:35:16 probably 01:35:25 why GregorR doesn't like it 01:35:39 If I didn't have a date, I'd not show up. 01:38:53 pikhq: You did get my /msg, right? 01:40:09 Obviously. 01:41:28 Mmkay. I see that the parser works well. 01:41:43 I'm not sure how to go from parser to compiler, but I'm sure it can be done. 01:42:19 -!- Tweek888 has joined. 01:42:19 * pikhq honestly sucks at compiler design; basm is a fluke. 01:42:22 Well, there'll need to be a sizeable C runtime environment. 01:42:36 Or else some really weird-ass shit happening. 01:43:00 I could probably help with the C runtime ATM. . . 01:43:06 That'll take some fumbling. 01:43:06 The actual compilation should be as simple as putting functions in functions and turning everything else into the proper (inline) function calls. 01:43:20 Yeah. 01:43:58 I'd *like* to see a better way for Plof to access C functions than the current method. . . I assume that's planned after Plof runs? 01:44:05 cPlof, even. 01:44:22 Yeah, but I don't actually have any ideas for it. 01:45:01 typing seems like it would be hard 01:46:12 please print the laplace transform of something 01:46:23 Perhaps make it a C++ interface? 01:46:39 Seems that C++ could possibly behave better with Plof. 01:46:51 Erm ... that seems unlikely :) 01:47:05 I didn't say *much* better. ;) 01:47:44 I *think* the best way to do it would probably involve a Plof<->C API, so the Plof interpreter or compiler could load libraries conforming to that API. 01:48:21 Probably end up having the API require that function names in the C code conform to the name-mangling scheme. 01:49:14 Tweek888: 0 -> 0 01:49:28 (always a safe bet with linear transforms) 01:50:05 pikhq: Name-mangling isn't very realistic in a language where there are no named functions :) 01:50:25 GregorR: You know what I mean, though, right? 01:50:54 I think the name mangling is a non-issue. But otherwise, yeah, it would make sense if the C functions basically were Plof functions which happened to have native code. 01:51:23 Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. 01:51:39 It's an easy solution, which allows for consistency with Plof. 01:51:54 Doesn't work well for Dplof, methinks, though. 01:52:14 It'd work fine for DPlof - unions and structs in D are exactly equivalent to their C versions. 01:52:20 Ah. 01:52:49 Still, you have to admit that my current dlopen method is much easier :) 01:52:53 please print the laplace transform of something that isn't 0 01:53:05 1 -> 0 01:53:09 Easier, but less elegant. 01:53:11 ty 01:53:39 wait... 01:53:57 scratch that one. i'll look it up. 01:54:16 GregorR: Please go back in time and uninvent IRP. 01:54:36 * GregorR has halted: SIG_NO_TIME_TRAVEL 01:55:35 * pikhq has halted: SIG_STACK: Execution stack overflow; no runtime recursion 02:03:43 ok, 1 -> 1/s, more or less. 02:03:52 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace_transform 02:05:36 shouldn't the laplace transform be (C -> C) -> (C -> C)? 02:05:59 i _said_ more or less. 02:06:43 and apparently it does not usually converge everywhere. 02:07:12 eh, no, the initial definition should be on R. 02:07:57 *function 02:08:33 so it is more like (R -> C) -> (C -> Maybe C) :) 02:08:54 oh, right, it's time 02:09:04 actually, (R+ -> C) -> (C -> Maybe C) 02:14:25 :) 02:14:35 i take it you haven't taken differential equations? 02:14:53 I don't know what's going on. . . 02:15:12 maths. 02:15:14 Differential equations, I belive, comes *after* AP calc, which is what I'm doing right now. 02:15:30 ha, classes 02:15:33 you should just skip to diff. eq. 02:15:40 AP calc is no fun. 02:15:48 I'm almost *done*. 02:15:56 all you need to make a 5 is a TI-89 Titanium. 02:15:59 Is diff. eq right after AP calc? 02:16:07 ap calc is what i'm taking next year 02:16:11 it's an elective class. 02:16:31 normally taken after calc ii or iii. 02:16:37 Ah. 02:16:40 so, it'd be after AP calc BC 02:16:48 So, I'll take it my college freshman year. 02:17:00 * pikhq is a HS junior ATM 02:17:30 yeah. but even at that, there are a few different diff. eq. courses. 02:17:41 what is it? 02:18:01 love. 02:21:00 I haven't reached the wizard yet, so i'm just going to keep chopping wood then 02:34:04 -!- Robdgreat has quit ("Error 1606. Press any key to continue."). 03:06:38 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:06:49 howdy, everyone 03:06:53 hi 03:07:09 'Lo. 03:07:22 Hey 03:07:23 what's been going on in #Esoteric recently? 03:07:52 Plof's going to become self-hosting soon as Gregor and I bother. 03:08:45 neato 03:09:07 bootstrapping it with C or something first? 03:09:50 No, bootstrapping it with DPlof. 03:11:58 I've been doing some work recently on the idea I was throwing around a few weeks ago about an esoteric networking protocol 03:12:10 Dear God. 03:12:21 I think you should implement it in PESOIX. . . 03:12:26 And thereby get PESOIX working. :p 03:12:41 the general idea is that packets consist of a number of headers that contain a simple scripting language that "peel off" at each machine they bounce through 03:13:29 but since the scripts can self-modify and control their own packet's routing, you can use the language to write networking utilities as well. 03:13:35 or worms, I guess. 03:14:08 but it'll let you write an ftp or p2p app in just a handful of characters! 03:15:04 and the system allows for totally ad-hoc network configurations, wherein packets are also used to update various "routing tables" stored independently on each machine 03:15:33 Jebus. 03:15:35 Crazy. 03:15:36 :D 03:15:50 but somewhat utilitarian and functional, eh? 03:17:08 I envision it as an extremely powerful (if horrifically insecure) system. 03:17:19 aaah 03:17:33 i thought i might be able to shorten my fibonacci code by a character, but no 03:17:42 It could be horrifically secure on the Hurd. . . 03:17:46 :[ 03:17:50 Just make the script run as UID {}. 03:17:52 what language are you working in, bsmntbombdood? 03:17:58 RodgerTheGreat: dc 03:18:09 whats dc like? 03:18:17 It's a Turing complete RPN calculator. 03:18:19 fax: crazy awesome 03:18:26 * fax cant tell from looking at the examples 03:18:34 bsmntbombdood: do you have a link to some basic info? 03:18:38 man dc 03:18:51 RodgerTheGreat: I proposed a little contest before, write a program to print the 435 fib number in the least number of characters 03:18:55 wait how is that on my computer :D 03:18:58 cool 03:19:03 mine is 33 characters 03:19:04 well, at least *some* packets need to be able to alter the routing table, which is where the insecurity lies. They'll also probably have their own persistent storage mechanism of some kind, like "cookiespace" or something that's cleared periodically. 03:19:10 * pikhq has written a (non-Turing complete) dc clone. . . 94 LOC, not counting preprocessor macros 03:19:17 bsmntbombdood: neato 03:19:31 RodgerTheGreat: So run it in a subHurd. 03:19:41 0sa1[rdla+rsar1-d0 mine was 27 chars, 0{((2 0{(,+/))^:(435-2))1 1 03:20:05 But that's not dc. 03:20:07 but I dont know the langauge well 03:20:10 doesn't have to be dc 03:20:15 Ah. 03:20:18 fax: no way that works 03:20:21 Hmm. 03:20:26 bsmntbombdood: works for me 03:20:36 what is the number? 03:20:44 fib(435); 03:20:50 pikhq: heh 03:20:51 363193867...461442690? 03:20:57 bsmntbombdood: sec 03:21:09 3.63194e90 03:21:12 hm. I can't think of a language I could beat 27 characters with for a fibo... 03:21:13 is the output 03:21:23 fax: nope, doesn't count 03:21:24 I can probably set options so it prints the whole decimal expantion 03:21:28 needs all characters 03:21:29 like preferences 03:21:58 i can beat your program, fax: [3.63194e90]p 03:22:05 lol 03:22:10 nice 03:23:14 bsmntbombdood: that doesnt calculuate it 03:23:58 doesn't need to 03:24:03 it only needs to print it 03:25:33 the number is 92 digits long, though, so the program won't win any prizes 03:27:16 well 03:27:25 if I go into options and set print precision to 20, I can get 3.6319386724082529327e90 03:27:28 so, basically, you can view the challenge as either a math optimization problem (express it succinctly either iteratively, recursively, or explicitly) or a compression problem. 03:27:39 RodgerTheGreat: same thing 03:27:40 but I dont know how to make it print the full expansion 03:28:09 shame it wont go above 20 03:28:17 (seems arbitrary) 03:28:35 kolmogorov complexity 03:28:36 there's a difference in approach between trying to calculate a number and trying to compress a string 03:29:17 print what is love 03:29:22 20 is the largest you can get with a 64 bit number 03:29:22 print bassline 03:29:29 lol 03:29:46 print baby don't hurt me 03:29:48 ur doin it worng. 03:29:55 baby don't hurt me 03:29:59 RodgerTheGreat: not in the kolmogorov complexity sense 03:30:19 ok, I will accept this 03:30:55 but I was attempting to highlight the different ways someone could look at the problem, from a conventional programming standpoint 03:31:26 ok, sure 03:32:16 The first surprising result is that there is no way to effectively compute K. 03:32:16 Theorem. K is not a computable function. 03:32:20 ^ that doesnt surprise me :/ 03:33:00 * pikhq wonders what that fibonacci number would look like if represented in binary. . . 03:33:09 the chain rule one is interesting 03:33:14 bbl guys 03:33:39 I'd bet that a binary representation, converted into ASCII, would work. XD 03:33:42 pikhq: just use the obase setting for dc 03:34:03 f(x)=f(x-1)+f(x-2) 03:34:06 Err. 03:36:51 man 03:36:57 always such interesting stuff here :D 03:37:29 That's the idea. 03:40:44 pikhq: dc -e "2o 1sb 0sa [la d lb + sa sb lap lfx]dsfx"|more 03:40:51 print all the fibonacci numbers, in binary 03:41:14 oooh, interesting 03:41:36 the last digit goes 1,1,0,1,1,0... 03:41:37 bsmntbombdood: No, I mean "raw binary". 03:41:40 * fax hooks on tr 01 ' #'| 03:41:46 oh 03:41:56 Like, "screw up your terminal if viewed raw". 03:42:14 change that "p" to a "P" 03:42:18 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 03:42:25 hm 03:42:36 how would you turn "10101010110" into raw binary? 03:42:43 I mean is there a program already 03:42:50 instead of writing some code 03:43:11 dc -e "2O 10101010110 P" 03:43:27 oh cool :D 03:43:32 er, no 03:43:41 mmmm... I need to find some kind of programming job where I can work at home. 03:43:54 dc -e "2i 10101010110 P" 03:44:19 i don't think dc goes up to base 256. 03:44:30 oerjan: doesn't need to 03:44:42 for raw binary you need base 256 03:44:50 print HEY EVERYONE HACKERS IS ON TV 03:44:51 :/ 03:44:56 That's real base 2. 03:44:58 oerjan: "P" command 03:45:06 oh 03:45:49 2o 1sb 0sa [la d lb + sa sb laP lfx]dsfx 03:45:57 all whitespace optional 03:47:02 Indeed. 03:56:42 nothing interesting in there 03:58:24 but piping it through hexdump and watching it scroll is fun 04:05:33 -!- zorkplik has joined. 04:07:49 Please say "hello world" 04:08:30 * oerjan starts to think someone's mentioned irp somewhere again 04:08:40 IRP ERROR: I don't want to. 04:08:58 oerjan: I wonder if #irp is still up, and if so, why don't we redirect all IRP traffic there? 04:09:00 I found it on http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP 04:09:20 The #irp channel has only one other person 04:09:30 Yeah, seems that it died. 04:09:32 it was empty last time i checked 04:09:46 I just joined it. 04:10:00 What was irpbot? 04:10:22 oerjan *should* have it somewhere. 04:10:34 *sigh* 04:10:56 I suppose the solution to this is to make an automated interpreter. 04:11:01 (thereby defeating the purpose) 04:11:15 The internet just isn't as boring as it used to be, so I'm not surprised there aren't human interpreters 04:11:28 this paper is funny: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/arvindn/misc/knuth_song_complexity.pdf 04:11:57 actually there are, it's just that Tweek888 has filled up my irp quota for today :) 04:12:21 irpbot *should* assign out which interpreter claims a job. . . 04:12:42 If I don't get oerjan to find it again, I'm going to have to write the thing. 04:12:48 Or just stop caring. :p 04:12:57 sheesh, i do know exactly where it is. 04:13:10 it's just i got bored of it, like everyone else 04:13:19 Figured as much. 04:13:25 well, irpbot won't help if there are no humans 04:13:39 maybe all the would-be interpreters are at Amazon's Mechanical Turk. 04:13:42 We need to DDoS that 04:13:56 Moral of the story: rm -rf IRP. 04:14:27 IRP interpreter: permission error (must be root) 04:16:35 and btw i did put up a copy of the source in case anyone wanted to use it. http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/IrpBot.hs 04:16:41 Mmkay. 04:16:49 Probably won't ever get used, though. 04:19:13 My favorite esoteric programming language I've seen is Befunge. 04:19:17 How about you guys? 04:19:39 Befunge is unique, and yet still useable for efficient programming (I think), and it's code looks cool. 04:20:15 yes, befunge has random access memory 04:20:33 although not as easily random jumps 04:20:56 I'm a fan of Dimensifuck, personally. 04:22:49 Of course, it's my language, so. . . 04:23:35 Wow, it's like a combination of the ideas of befunge and brainfuck but better 04:23:49 Did you write an interpreter, or was that somebody else? 04:23:56 That was a friend of mine. 04:24:05 I've done a bit of work on the interpreter, though. 04:24:16 cool 04:25:04 Can dimensifuck do things efficiently? (I'm pretty sure that brainfuck will have much higher minimum orders of complexity for most algorithms than theoretical limits) 04:25:44 It's a bit less efficient, but it is at least Turing complete. 04:25:57 Loops take more characters. 04:26:13 I really like how looping works in befunge 04:26:25 in dimensifuck do you move a pointer a long the dimensions? 04:26:29 I didn't quite understand it 04:26:32 you can of course assume some optimizations such as leaping over blank spaces 04:26:59 The code pointer moves in one dimension; _ = change the dimension that v and ^ will change the code pointer to. 04:27:35 Grr. I should get the Dimensifuck spec moved elsewhere; Nick's webserver is down. 04:28:54 Arrrgh, I thought dplof was broken in some horrible way - as it turns out, indexing a linearly linked list is not efficient :P 04:29:47 i suppose efficiency is relatively unimportant in an interpreter intended only for bootstrapping 04:30:23 No, the problem is that dplof crashed when I was running PlofPlof. 04:30:24 who uses esoteric languages for bootstrapping? 04:30:33 zorkplik: Plof is not esoteric. 04:30:38 I like strapping boots. 04:30:48 oh, plof. 04:30:49 oerjan: It actually crashed because I tried to index an LLL about 3000-deep X-P 04:31:02 oerjan: Shockingly, I got a stack overflow. 04:31:13 Plof is a serious project of Gregor's. ;) 04:31:26 ok unoptimized tail recursion 04:31:31 zorkplik: BTW, I can bootstrap Brainfuck. 04:32:02 meaning you have a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck? 04:32:10 That's sexy. 04:32:14 Actually, *I've* got a Brainfuck compiler. 04:32:28 There's a Brainfuck interpreter in Brainfuck, though (I didn't write it). 04:32:45 compiles to binaries? 04:32:46 (To be *perfectly* fair, my Brainfuck compiler is written in BFM, which merely compiles to Brainfuck) 04:32:49 To C. 04:33:07 There's one out there that compiles to x86 binary, though. 04:34:20 * pikhq loves his nice, optimizing, efficient BF->C compiler. . . 04:34:40 * GregorR loves his incomplete, non-optimizing, inefficient C->BF compiler. 04:34:49 * pikhq also loves that. 04:35:03 Ooh, port nethack to bf! 04:35:20 First implement c2bf. 04:35:23 Fully. 04:35:27 Then port libc. 04:35:29 Heheh 04:35:31 Then port ncurses. 04:35:34 Have fun. 04:36:12 wouldn't it be easier to make a program to port assembler to bf? 04:36:18 Probably. 04:36:22 btw, I just had a great idea for an esoteric language 04:36:27 (given that it's already been done. . .) 04:36:31 crap, I forgot it! 04:36:34 it'll come back to me. 04:36:40 Right. 04:37:19 http://kidsquid.com/old/compilers/bfasm/bfasm.html 04:37:51 -!- zorkplik_ has joined. 04:38:04 aw, my internets went away. 04:38:11 and when I reconnected, it changed my nickname, because it thought I was still connected 04:41:41 if you register your nickname you can ask nickserv to kill your "ghost" 04:43:32 unless you actually have the old irc client running somewhere, in which case it might reconnect 04:47:09 fax: That lisp container choice image is waaaaaaaay too funny :P 04:47:12 fax: It haunts my dreams. 04:53:14 it seems that Lua is the same except with associative tables 05:00:07 -!- zorkplik_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:02:19 -!- zorkplik has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:03:50 * GregorR wonders what other basic container types Plof needs.... 05:04:16 * pikhq goes off to sleep. . . 05:04:40 GregorR: You need a list of stacks of strings of integers. 05:13:03 Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay, I made a Range type :P 05:13:14 Fun: 05:13:15 foreach(new(Range, 0, Infinity, 2), (x){ 05:13:15 println(x); 05:13:15 }); 05:33:56 Current collections in the Plof core: AArray, Array, LazyCollection (every item is generated from a function), List, Range, Set. 05:34:12 I don't feel the need to make Queue, Stack, etc, since List can easily be used as them. 05:35:13 deQue? 05:36:17 hm... i guess it's not very different from Queue 05:37:08 or wait... 05:37:27 Honestly, I'm not sure how deque is implemented :) 05:37:35 yes it is, you need a doubly linked list 05:37:45 My List is doubly-linked. 05:37:51 oh 05:38:06 My primary purpose here is not efficiency ;) 05:38:26 what about sharing? 05:38:39 ? 05:39:06 if you do something like (cons a (tail b)) 05:39:36 then you cannot update the double link 05:40:37 Hmm, yeah, that's true. 05:43:21 purely functional queues and deques seem to require more than lists anyway. 05:43:53 Plof is anything but purely functional :) 05:44:19 i mean immutable datastructure 05:44:41 which has its use even in an otherwise impure language 05:46:07 True, true. 05:46:52 Hmmm, what to do, what to do. 05:47:21 Now that I actually have Plof at a very usable place, I don't know what to do next X-P 05:48:29 write a program in it? 05:48:49 Yeah, but that's just it - the only program I need to write right now is PlofPlof, and I want to hold off on that until my head stops spinning. 05:50:53 well if your head is spinning then a break may be in order 05:51:14 or an exorcist 05:51:19 Heh 06:05:40 Why Gregor hates Python: Every type I type Python, I typo Pythong and have to remove the 'g'. 06:07:43 that sounds rather Freudian. 06:10:34 deques are just doubly linked lists 06:10:58 a pair (pointer to head, pointer to tail) 06:10:58 that is just one possible implementation 06:11:10 I thought they had constant-time lookup? 06:11:26 constant time push, pop 06:11:37 Oh. 06:11:49 How is that different from a list? 06:11:52 (doubly linked) 06:12:24 "deques are just doubly linked lists" 06:12:30 Heh :P 06:12:50 deques are an ast, not an implementation of it 06:13:03 Haskell uses finger trees. 06:14:05 * bsmntbombdood reads 06:47:10 -!- Tweek888 has quit ("Leaving"). 07:04:20 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:04:45 ........... wtf. 08:04:51 I have "Washington Mutual Free Checking" 08:05:04 On my transaction history: "ATM BALANCE INQUIRY FEE" 08:44:14 -!- jix__ has joined. 09:02:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:28:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:55:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:58:34 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:04:05 hmm... should i read 2 weeks of this channels logs or not... 10:04:14 have you ppl been interesting? 10:07:51 oklopol: Depends ... do you have any interest in Plof? :P 10:10:26 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 10:10:46 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:11:32 -!- jix__ has joined. 10:15:21 -!- nazgjunk has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:26:28 i have a lot of interests... it's just reading 2 weeks of a mostly idle channel log takes multiple hours 10:26:54 and... i don't think that's the case here 10:27:01 i should never go out of country. 10:33:04 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 12:12:37 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 12:57:52 -!- Tweek888 has joined. 12:58:14 please print the enumerated root of all evil. 13:23:54 Syntax error. 13:27:48 please suck my syntax error. 13:28:00 :P 13:28:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:00:04 -!- jix__ has changed nick to jix. 14:43:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:53:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:55:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 15:05:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:30:56 ZOMG Earthquaek! :-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6602677.stm 15:31:40 print ZOMG Earthquaek! :-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6602677.stm 15:31:56 WTF 15:32:16 no.. way 15:32:33 thats got to be a hoax. 15:32:49 from the BBC? 15:32:55 :S 15:32:56 wow 15:33:02 there was another small one a few years ago in the north of England 15:33:23 given its alleged range, my parents could have felt it 15:33:38 They would probably all be asleep at that time though 15:38:28 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 15:40:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:44:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 15:54:02 * pikhq can't wait for October. . . 15:54:48 KDE4: Coming to a package manager near you. October 23, 2007. 15:56:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:01:59 خخا 16:02:03 ثقة 16:02:21 damned language-switching 16:04:18 language switching is fun 16:06:21 română 16:08:46 Jes, bonas. 16:10:11 nein 16:10:42 german is an ugly language 16:10:49 or i would have taken it in high school 16:25:20 Doitugojanakaxtuta. 16:31:58 please print Doitugojanakaxtuta. 16:35:29 * pikhq writes it out on a piece of paper 16:36:38 11 characters. Happy? 16:39:00 ;/ 16:50:48 Tweek888: how is german ugly? 16:51:28 glottal stops make a language easier to parse 16:51:36 it's an ugly language 16:51:40 not the sounds 16:51:42 the structure 16:51:48 wtf? 16:52:25 the accent marks are cool, and noun capitalization creates an interesting kinda flow 16:52:44 * pikhq prefers Japanese. 16:53:08 :/ 16:53:29 too many irregularities 16:53:32 everybody and their cousin on the internet prefers Japanese 16:53:38 i hate japanese 16:53:39 * pikhq starts preparing for the next BFM release. . . 16:53:54 Three years of studying it kind of encourages you to like it. XD 16:54:05 haha 16:54:13 I find German useful, because some of the best demoscene coders in the world are from Germany. 16:54:18 heh 16:54:21 true. 16:54:21 fair enough 16:54:27 but who cares about the demo scene? :d 16:54:58 The CCC cares. 16:55:07 I think the approaches a 64kb limitation leads to are interesting and can be applied elsewhere to great effect 16:55:34 some of the work on procedural content generation is amazing 16:56:05 and if game designers want to keep making things more realistic without spending *billions* on each new game, it's necessary. 16:56:40 no movie or video game has ever cost a billion dollars. 16:57:03 i added movie for perspective. 16:57:53 I use hyperbole for effect 16:58:47 I use cocaine 17:00:36 New BFM and Basm releases up. . . 17:00:49 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfm.tar.bz2 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/basm.tar.bz2 17:01:11 cool. 17:01:36 pikhq, what are those? compilers? 17:01:52 Tweek888: BFM is a compiler for BFM. Basm is a Brainfuck to C compiler in BFM. 17:02:06 that's nice. 17:02:08 RodgerTheGreat: Internal API cleaner; partial C backend. 17:02:24 Made pretty much all of the internals cleaner, really. 17:02:31 Also includes some documentation. 17:02:47 documentation is good 17:03:02 Basm has been made smaller and more efficient. 17:03:13 I think I've done some fiddling with the optimizer, as well. 17:03:39 Ah, right. Made it work with a newer build of Tcllib. 17:04:13 And the Basm tarball now includes a C version of the basm code, allowing for easier bootstrapping. 17:11:33 Hmm. 17:11:50 * pikhq has discovered the issue with the C backend. . . 17:51:26 C backend I *believe* works now. 17:51:55 New build up again. 17:53:16 I've got a new basm build up, which has C code produced via the C backend. 17:54:32 And said C code does bootstrap it all. 17:57:36 And nobody cares. XD 18:01:55 xD 18:09:15 -!- mtve has quit ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5"). 18:12:18 But then, why would anyone want something that makes Brainfuck remotely useful? 18:13:02 I know I'm in the minority here, but I enjoy esoteric languages that combine functionality with unconventionality 18:13:13 as well as tools with similar intent 18:13:16 pikhq, is brainfuck fast? 18:13:36 RodgerTheGreat: Then you should love BFM. 18:13:41 It's odd, but it's functional. 18:13:44 Tweek888: Can be. 18:14:00 I'm aware of this 18:14:11 Right. You've seen me rant about it, after all. :p 18:17:24 I've been here through its entire development process. 18:17:44 Right. 18:18:20 * pikhq wonders how many people have actually coded in it. . . 18:19:48 * pikhq wonders why the hell LostKng doesn't work in Basm any more. . . 18:20:12 indent: LostKng.c:6857: Error:Unexpected end of file 18:20:23 Well, that'd explain it; seems I'm using a borken LostKng.b source. 18:24:47 that would explain it 18:25:53 German :/ 18:26:15 I wanted to learn german in highschool, but I have to take stupid spanish instead 18:27:26 dayum 18:27:29 sorry, dude 18:30:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:31:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:31:43 And my computer crashed trying to compile LostKng. 18:31:50 hm 19:40:59 -!- ihope has joined. 19:42:05 Realization! 19:42:23 The kernel needs to implement what's needed to let the processes do everything else. :-) 19:42:50 Obviously, processes need to be loaded somehow, so the kernel must be able to load processes. 19:43:08 I hear that interrupts to straight to the kernel, so it needs to have a way to hand those over to processes. 19:43:31 And... what, is that it? 19:43:44 -!- fax has quit (" "). 19:55:37 Congrats on developing part of a microkernel. 19:55:50 The other part you need, of course, is a message passing interface. 20:02:43 Heh 20:11:41 pikhq: what, the processes can't do that themselves? 20:11:43 :-) 20:12:03 ihope: . . . 20:12:11 Load a process, send all the interrupts to it. 20:12:27 Well, if *that's* the way you think things should go, why not just implement the whole thing on top of DOS? 20:12:28 Essentially, delegate *everything* onto the process. 20:12:46 Mm, I guess the kernel does have to provide something. 20:12:55 core.com 20:13:06 There, that's the name of your system. 20:13:08 Process scheduling, message passing, magic hat... 20:13:22 Just execute core.com, it does everything. :p 20:13:43 * ihope sings a song about the magic hat 20:25:42 most kernels also handle memory paging 20:26:01 or at least allocation 20:26:15 because having processes all grab memory willy-nilly has some issues 20:29:23 sigh 20:29:30 i hate my physics teacher 20:29:43 what does your teacher do that incites hatred? 20:30:03 http://84.184.220.55:1337/random?6519&4583&10443 ::: http://84.184.220.55:1337/random?8707&88&7305 20:31:26 His labs aren't worth doing because of all the bullshit assumptions he introduces 20:31:57 I am supposed to calculate maximum instantaneous velocity given average velocity 20:43:27 hmmm.... which unicode characters could be used to represent whitespace (not a new line, although I need to know that to) 20:50:43 bsmntbombdood: Impossible. 20:50:52 pikhq: no shit 20:51:05 Has he *ever* learned calculus? 20:51:38 He is scared of calculus, and wants us to be also 20:51:43 All that you can tell with average velocity is that, at one point, the instantaneous velocity equals the average velocity. . . (assuming a continuous function) 20:53:06 i'm guessing he wants me to assume constant acceleration, which is not anywhere close to what actually happened 20:53:38 Well, assuming constant acceleration at least lets you figure out what the max velocity is. . . 20:53:43 But why give the average velocity? 20:54:02 what? 20:55:31 * pikhq is confused as to what your teacher wants 20:55:40 Your physics teacher is scared of calculus? 20:55:49 yeah 20:56:00 In other news, fish scared of water. 20:56:24 Indeed. 20:56:24 Physics is stupid without calculus 20:56:32 Calculus is very important in physics. 20:56:48 calculus was created _for_ physics 20:57:24 Unless we discover the universe to be based on Conway's Life, or something. 20:57:24 bsmntbombdood: was it? 20:57:24 Interesting. 20:57:58 ihope: Yeah. . . Calculus == Newtonian physics. 20:58:21 How often does e^x pop up in Newtonian physics? 21:00:01 Any time the position of an object is modeled by e^x. 21:00:09 You know, if the universe is based on Conway's Life, I want to introduce a stray glider! >:-) 21:00:16 pikhq: and how often is that? 21:00:37 Actually, it seems it'd be somewhat common when decay and such is involved. 21:01:46 yeah 21:01:54 ihope: I just want to fiddle with a glider that's supposed to be there. 21:03:05 Well, really, it seems the universe would use something more sophisticated than gliders. 21:03:43 See, most research in Conway's Life is concerned with objects surrounded by dead cells. 21:04:02 -!- nazgjunk has quit ("Bi-la Kaifa"). 21:09:30 ihope: gliders are used in as part of quite a few life patterns, though. 21:11:07 Well, what if you base everything on a different agar? 21:11:32 You could build outward at one cell per generation, theoretically. 21:14:12 -!- nazgjunk has joined. 21:26:56 -!- jix has quit ("Bitte waehlen Sie eine Beerdigungnachricht"). 22:26:11 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:28:02 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 22:44:34 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa"). 23:32:39 Anybody want to write a Plof CGI module? :) 23:36:41 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 23:36:57 >.> Is there any way to rename a process? 23:37:13 * CakeProphet wants to change the name of one of his processes from "pythonw.exe" 23:37:47 GregorR: I'd love to if I weren't needing to get ready for prom.