00:03:09 <kwertii> pity that AOL doesn't mail out copies of itself on 1 gig flash drives. I didn't have to buy disks for years
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10:23:59 <andreou> hey anyone has hacker's delight in PDF form?
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14:13:08 <RodgerTheGreat> with a quick show of hands, (and we're talking *actual* programming tasks here, not just esolang dev work), who prefers RPN, prefix and algebraic notation? Giving your reasons for each would be interesting if you choose to do so
14:14:06 <RodgerTheGreat> if that phrasing is confusing, I'd like to know which of the three you find the easiest to work with and the best to use
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16:54:46 * SimonRC finds out an interesting thing about micro-optimisations...
16:58:40 <SimonRC> someone tried comparing (in C): "return (x << 3) + (x << 1);" with "return x * 10;"...
16:58:56 <SimonRC> naturally, they both produced the same code:
16:59:24 <SimonRC> mov eax, DWORD PTR _x$[esp-4] ; lea eax, DWORD PTR [eax+eax*4] ; add eax, eax ;
16:59:43 <SimonRC> t = (int)(t + (long*)t); /* pointer arithmetic does: t = 4*t + t */
17:00:06 <SimonRC> Moral of the story: the compiler knows far more about micro-optimisations than you do.
17:01:11 <ihope> Doesn't x86 have... things for multiplication?
17:02:15 <SimonRC> the compiler evidentally thinks that bizarre trick is the best way to handle it.
17:02:54 <SimonRC> you know how pointer arithmetic works in C, right?
17:06:21 <SimonRC> The integer being added shifts the pointer by the given number of *objects* not bytes...
17:06:53 <SimonRC> so adding 1 to a (long*) will increase it by 4, assuming sizeof(long) == 4.
17:07:39 <SimonRC> this means that (int)(t + (long*)t) is t*5.
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17:29:21 <fizzie> My GCC compiles those two versions differently, btw (even if I force -mregparm=0 to approximate those solutions). First one to "movl 8(%rsp), %eax; leal (%rax,%rax), %edx; leal (%rdx, %rax, 8), %eax; ret" and the second one to "movl 8(%rsp), %eax; leal (%rax,%rax,4), %eax; addl %eax, %eax; ret".
17:30:25 <fizzie> Makes some sort of sense: the first one is a bit closer to the C version, since it does 2*x+8*x and not 2*(4*x+x).
17:31:32 <fizzie> Possibly with enough flags it'd generate identical code.
17:40:30 <pikhq> fizzie: Try -O as your flag. ;)
17:41:29 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: In response to your hours-long poll: I prefer RPN for calculator usage, and prefix for coding.
17:41:47 <pikhq> Although infix is also good for coding.
17:42:03 <lament> i prefer infix for everything.
17:42:11 <lament> math notation is the best!
17:42:21 <pikhq> I'm a Tcler and an HP calculator/dc user. ;)
17:42:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd use RPN more if I had an 11c- I only have an HP12c, which isn't suitable for a lot of the math I do
17:53:41 <oerjan> if you actually prefered XML, that would be circumfix i guess
17:54:17 <oerjan> which leads to the question of whether lisp is really prefix
17:54:44 <lament> lisp is, of course, sexfix!
17:55:16 <oerjan> lisp: the sexp fixated language
17:57:54 <pikhq> No, it's variadic prefix.
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18:52:07 <SimonRC> Y'know those supposed open-air puddles on Mars?
18:52:27 <SimonRC> It turns out they cannot be water, for a simple reason.
18:52:35 <SimonRC> They are on a fucking slope.
18:58:00 * ihope ponders the fact that there's a fizzie here and a fuzzie in another channel he's in
18:58:07 <ihope> A little weird, that.
18:58:14 <ihope> Er, confusing. Or something.
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19:25:30 * SimonRC decides that AC power was invented to make calculating power usage as difficult as possible: http://www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm
19:26:52 <SimonRC> Dear world government. Please invent an AC power standard for all our PCs and stuff to use.
19:27:06 <SimonRC> Dear world government. Please invent a DC power standard for all our PCs and stuff to use.
19:28:32 <RodgerTheGreat> even just a standard AC->DC adapter that worked with *everything* would do the trick pretty nicely
19:31:44 <SimonRC> Google, Sun, and the like are experimenting with having just one big PSU per rack of machines.
19:41:03 <pikhq> SimonRC: What you got against 5v/12v?
19:43:24 <pikhq> Because that's the DC standard.
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20:48:21 <SimonRC> pikhq: Really? I have yet to see anywhere with such sockets on the wall. (I was referring to DC *sockets*.)
20:49:02 * SimonRC adds a category to Wikipedia: Categories that do not contain themselves.
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20:53:08 * pikhq adds that page to itself
21:40:54 <ihope> Category: Paradoxical categories
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