< 1183507204 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you mean you want to be known as "that guy who's reading ANKOS"? < 1183507229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183507231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1183507257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only if you have a long-term fact and a varying short-term fact < 1183507264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be my short-term fact < 1183507279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my long-term facts i have no idea about < 1183507289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something negative, most likely < 1183507337 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That vile-smelling individual who's reading ANKOS"? < 1183507389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1183508120 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=ahem@222-154-159-211.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183508379 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183508627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That guy that should worship me?" < 1183508791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do worship you a bit < 1183508800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, really? Sweet. < 1183508801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1183508805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i haven't actually *looked* at pebble. < 1183508810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-' < 1183508822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you've got a book that you're reading, so that's excusable. < 1183508827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, yeah :) < 1183508835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dl'd it though! < 1183508856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1183508866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 1.0, not 1.0-preview? < 1183508879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr.... i dl'd something :) < 1183508891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version 1.0 has this nice thing called "documentation". ;) < 1183508900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i promise i'll check it out. < 1183508908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1183508927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, beware, once i look at it, i most likely won't worship it as much < 1183508938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1183508946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, it might get another status in my head < 1183508995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you'd most likely rather be worshipped than having made something that somewhat steers a random persons thoughts. < 1183509002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1183509009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*person's < 1183509025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have both, since the last option is exactly what it does to me. :p < 1183509046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both is possible as well < 1183509071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, so many pages srijg < 1183509298 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1183509392 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-35-151.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1183509410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have a hard time continuing reading when i know i haven't implemented all this cool stuff in the book < 1183509414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi immibis < 1183509448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop reading. < 1183509504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i enjoy a challenge... on some level < 1183509554 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1183510732 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183510769 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.226.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183512392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1183512429 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183517108 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye..." < 1183518931 0 :cosmic_string!i=cosmic_s@c-68-34-99-180.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183520823 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does forth have first class functions? < 1183520835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1183520859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well not lambdas. < 1183520870 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function pointers, then? < 1183520928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so, since it does low-level things like addresses < 1183521079 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i suggest you look at forth more closely < 1183521094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's so different from everything else, the usual terms like "first-class foo" don't really apply to it < 1183521116 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably look at it again, it's been a loooong time < 1183521222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: So, nothing is first-class? < 1183521250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1183521331 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is much less of an abstract formal system than other languages < 1183521343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's strongly tied to the underlying hardware model < 1183521388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there're several levels of abstraction, that are normally kept completely separate; here they all interleave < 1183521425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"First-class". Is a function a normal datatype? < 1183521444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If yes, it's first-class. Otherwise, it's not. < 1183521458 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if a language doesn't have datatypes? < 1183521501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there are no first-class types. < 1183521525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I doubt there are any such languages. . . < 1183521533 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think in forth the only type is a cell < 1183521550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the Turing machine has a type. < 1183522068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth has only one type. < 1183522145 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, terms "first-class" aren't really applicable to it. < 1183522163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose forth has first-class integers and first-class memory addresses. < 1183522224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at it, I see that it has first-class stack entries. < 1183522238 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it has that. < 1183522281 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i don't think that's a type :) < 1183522291 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. . . Yes. < 1183522300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still the first-class object. < 1183522324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I *think* words are first-class, but I'm not sure. < 1183522340 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183522343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not < 1183522365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you set a variable to a word? < 1183522408 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1183522410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really know FORTH; know a *tiny* bit of HP's Reverse Polish Lisp, which is Lisp+Forth < 1183522418 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, look at forth in more detail < 1183522430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to think of it as a program, not as a language < 1183522463 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a self-modifying program running on bare metal < 1183522468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of it more as a clever hack. :p < 1183522489 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forth doesn't HAVE to run on bare metal, but if you think of it that way it helps to understand the design philosophy) < 1183522508 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if you think/thinking < 1183522554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned clever. < 1183522566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with other lang, we try to be careful to not mix the language and the implementation < 1183522569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*langs < 1183522577 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with forth, there's only the implementation :) < 1183522662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like there's barely anything beyond the basic set of words and a *very* bare-bones parser. . . < 1183522759 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also true of lisp, and yet lisp manages to be much more sane < 1183522845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp has a large amount of builtin functions, a bit less of a parser, and a more flexible datatype. < 1183522865 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth can have as many builtin function as you wish < 1183522870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although technically you could build almost all of the builtins from (lambda). < 1183522873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key difference is in the nature of the parser < 1183522883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the basic datatyp.e < 1183522893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1183522901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are related in Lisp. . . < 1183522910 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in early lisps, which lived near the metal, the basic datatype is a pointer. < 1183522930 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else, but to the programmer it always seems like a pointer. < 1183522932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, all the Lisp parser does is load in a list. . . < 1183522936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the forth like that, too. < 1183522939 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Still is. < 1183522957 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the key difference is that the lisp parser is passive < 1183522969 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads lisp code, process it according to the rules, and then does something with the result. < 1183522972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not really a pointer. . . It's a cons cell, which has both a pointer and data. . . < 1183522975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1183522978 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forth parser works interactively < 1183523002 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not "set in stone"" < 1183523013 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1183523021 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can extend and change it from inside forth < 1183523025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer the Lisp idea. < 1183523034 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lisp idea is sanity. < 1183523037 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forth way is madness. < 1183523041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still pretty neat. < 1183523042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1183523061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lisp idea is actually *excessive* sanity. :p < 1183523076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what do you expect from an academic language, anyways?) < 1183523617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1183523932 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Going off to play SimCity 3000" < 1183524530 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: perfection < 1183524538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1183524752 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya everyone < 1183524761 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1183526215 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1167902773.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1183530401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1183534588 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WeeChat 0.2.5" < 1183535999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1183536000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1183540660 0 :Sukoshi!n=Sukoshi@user-11fab8o.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1183546014 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, gnight < 1183546105 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(contains offensive language) http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Break_stuff" < 1183548087 0 :Toyd!i=Toyd@189-41-215.ftth.xms.internl.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183548096 0 :Toyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the plot of that wonderful movie star crossed its an american movie: Darren and Connor are two star-crossed lovers bound together by blood. Set in a suburban neighborhood, Star-crossed is an atmospheric story of two brothers who's relationship develops into something more than society could ever handle. Unable to deny their feelings for each other the two brothers try to hide their relationship from an unkind world but fail. The < 1183548096 0 :Toyd!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : boys decide that a world that cant understand them is a world thats not for them. <-- i cried at the end so sad :'( < 1183550308 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183551489 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183552884 0 :helios24!n=helios@195.37.106.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183557521 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-041-237.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183560242 0 :cosmic_string!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy 4th < 1183561898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toyd: pretty touching < 1183562845 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183564851 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183565682 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-16-14.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1183566020 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-053-136.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1183566591 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1183567242 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183567602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy "cons4 today : tmp"! < 1183567871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural selection is highly overestimated < 1183567907 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a lot of time. < 1183567926 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 10000000000000000000000000000 squared years. < 1183567934 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no. < 1183567938 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... something? < 1183567945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squarerooted < 1183567958 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders < 1183567982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ankos has a pretty plausible explanation for most complexity we see in organisms < 1183567992 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ankos? < 1183567997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new kind of science < 1183568011 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1183568013 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's it say? < 1183568028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty cool how shells and pigmentation is duplicated with cellular automatons :P < 1183568047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can compare a real picture with a strikingly similar ca < 1183568054 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that have to do with complexity? < 1183568059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1183568093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people like to think most details in organisms are there because they're optimal < 1183568116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how branches emerging from plants are always in the optimal angle < 1183568210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he creates cellular automata to show they're actually just the most likely angles to occur < 1183568210 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-125.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1183568219 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy < 1183568225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i find neat <3 < 1183568232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1183568254 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_ is square-free < 1183568277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, a shell with rule 90 painted on it :D < 1183568308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not painted < 1183568315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...formed < 1183568318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smth < 1183568331 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 90? < 1183568343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d cellular automaton rule 90 < 1183568354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not perfect, but pretty much < 1183568367 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1183568376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1183568380 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is rule 90 Turing-complete? < 1183568385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1183568388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that < 1183568394 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, it makes it a really, really slow computer. < 1183568403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1183568418 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One that may not have any method of input. < 1183568425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically just a simple nested shape... so i'd say no < 1183568448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing has been said about tc or qm :< < 1183568450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum mechanics < 1183568470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when it's like the perfect time to start talking about them... and no < 1183568493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1183568507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll get to it for rule 110 < 1183568517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tc) < 1183568522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1183568524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about qm. < 1183568527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rule 30, which some cells exhibit. < 1183568543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if rule 30 has been proven < 1183568602 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANKOS hasn't mentioned Turing-completeness or quantum mechanics yet? < 1183568607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1183568610 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahahaha! I have successfully assimilated yet another denizen of #Esoteric! < 1183568617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the construction in the book for rule 110 is a really, really slow computer too < 1183568639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: has anything been done with it? < 1183568642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a more efficient one has been made by others later < 1183568649 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have successfully assimilated yet another denizen of #Esoteric? < 1183568658 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed. < 1183568667 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did I retype that?) < 1183568675 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Silly me.) < 1183568678 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonlogic continues to grow. < 1183568681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was the first (you will be assimilated into our likeness and being), thank you. < 1183568771 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is correct < 1183568912 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1183568920 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, lament < 1183568960 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's toyd? < 1183568980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Independence Day to the Americans! < 1183569002 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, they're finally independent from that horrible Britain < 1183569003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thank you, Norway. < 1183569013 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a waste of blood that was :D < 1183569031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can thank us by congratulating our queen with her birthday :) < 1183569031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the recent changes and discovers there're none < 1183569058 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't norway have an independence day of some kind? < 1183569070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that sweden, newly independent from norway? < 1183569076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: When is it? (I find it more difficult to keep note of such important days in European history, due to the high number of sovereign states over there) < 1183569089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweden independent from norway, now that is a thought... < 1183569114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suddenly, Sweden declared its independence in 1523, but Norway remained under the Oldenburg dynasty for 434 years until 1814." < 1183569122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember when that is on the spot, lessee... < 1183569127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so Norway independent from Denmark. < 1183569154 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, and sweden too. < 1183569156 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, Sweden militarily forced Norway into a personal union with Sweden, establishing the Bernadotte dynasty as rulers of Norway" < 1183569250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so May 17, constitution day, seems a direct analogue of the independence day. < 1183569260 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Constitution of Norway was signed at Eidsvoll on May 17 in the year 1814. The constitution declared Norway to be an independent nation." < 1183569261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the horribly evil Swedenators enslaved us (Finland) too, in the 13th century. < 1183569265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it wasn't quite independence < 1183569312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and btw the intention of the constitution makers were to keep the Danish king :) < 1183569324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1183569354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the independence day from Sweden isn't even an official holiday < 1183569388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, under flag days < 1183569405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7th of June - dissolution of the union 1905 < 1183569417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an independence day (from being part of Russia) 6th of December. And we had a king, too - for two months. Imported from Germany. < 1183569439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Finland_%281918%29 -- that was fast. < 1183569461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i read about that on wikipedia the other day < 1183569481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was not considered wise to keep him after the Germans lost WWI < 1183569532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh history :< < 1183569563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, history is complicated < 1183569611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know about that, but i do find it very useless :) < 1183569637 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183569654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i don't care enough about country borders now to want to know their history < 1183569733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol; Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Watch out - sooner or later you'll end up accidentally becoming a kingdom of your own for two months. < 1183569747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be neat :P < 1183569754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :family guy ! < 1183569795 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't call things useless without investigating all possible uses first < 1183569801 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's certainly complicated. < 1183569802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know history, it's just for me it's a bunch of useless make-belive stuff. < 1183569821 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.228.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183569831 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1183569835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1183569842 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it shouldn't be, it's not any different from what's happening now, it just happened earlier. < 1183569846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i'm pretty sure there are no uses for me < 1183569893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't belive a mass of people as big as a country can have a well-defined identity < 1183569906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: history doesn't assume that < 1183569922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wtuff history teaches is redundant to me < 1183569923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in fact, most events do contradict that assumption < 1183569926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*stuff < 1183569933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they do < 1183570005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't really a good comeback < 1183570011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's all i have :) < 1183570039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i don't see how anything history teaches could have any effect in me < 1183570125 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :history shows how bad things can get, for one < 1183570141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you believe holocaust was possible if it didn't happen? < 1183570337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm expected to say no, i think :P < 1183570342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1183570344 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think history is rewritten all the time to influence people.. ..911 was a holocaust. ..a ritualistic sacrificial bruned offer to the gods < 1183570390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, if there really is a germany, and there really was a holochaust, i admit that's actually worth knowing < 1183570395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 911 was nothing < 1183570408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laughed out loud when it was broadcast all over the world :D < 1183570418 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1183570421 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is helpful to accept the existence of both germany and the holocaust. < 1183570424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A HUNDRED PEOPLE DIED A MILLION MILES AWAY < 1183570425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1183570432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: true < 1183570448 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, actually < 1183570455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can never be too sure < 1183570475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i've been to germany, so i somewhat have to) < 1183570491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, you could go too far, like believing Bielefeld exists < 1183570522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's a bit more meaningful when you're in the country that that happened in. . . < 1183570557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if i lived in the city and it happened twice, i'd move out < 1183570567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like talking about this < 1183570567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agreed. < 1183570580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you just vandalize that page? :) < 1183570581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fell i'm a wacko when talking about this stuff :) < 1183570596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't even looking at it today < 1183570645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feel < 1183570665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i always seem to differ a bit from the general opinion < 1183570671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now read < 1183570757 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: everybody always differs a bit from the "general opinion". < 1183570824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i often get banned for my opinions, even though they rarely insult anyone < 1183570831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not often < 1183570833 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes :) < 1183570877 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably get banned for behaving like an asshole, and not for your opinions. < 1183570897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i just don't notice it < 1183570901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i doing it now? < 1183570943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1183570949 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, you aren't getting banned either. < 1183570959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1183570961 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the whole "A HUNDRED PEOPLE DIED A MILLION MILES AWAY" thing was kind bad. < 1183570967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed :D < 1183570977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would probably get you banned in many places. < 1183570985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps finding that hilarious is, actually, pretty insulting < 1183571003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it might seem i don't care about their lives < 1183571015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wasn't my point, of course < 1183571027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, a million miles is about 40 times the circumference of the Earth... < 1183571027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'm saying < 1183571039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not your actual opinion that gets you in trouble, but the way you present it < 1183571097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect, the WTC certainly was a very important event, although I agree its importance was overblown at the time. It makes for a good symbol. < 1183571106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls an old norwegian song called "Ingen nordmenn med" < 1183571113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the fact it was overblown is what made it important < 1183571132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about how lots of terrible things happen, but it's ok because no norwegians were involved < 1183571145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1183571181 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, but that's true of very many things < 1183571202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: much of history :) < 1183571221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that it's been overblown enough to make those who did it quite succesful at sewing fear and uncertainty. . . < 1183571263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learned in youtube, that wtc was a conspiracy! < 1183571278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they also say that the moon landing was one? < 1183571283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes! < 1183571288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sky? < 1183571288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and family guy as well < 1183571293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sky? < 1183571317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :family guy and simpsons both say the moon landing was a fake, but futurama says it happened < 1183571356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure those are pretty official sources < 1183571357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh, futurama is set thousands of years in the future, of course they've managed to land on the moon < 1183571371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they show neil's footprints! < 1183571384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! horrible lies < 1183571390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1183571400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was a parallel universe or something < 1183571415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, they do go into the past in at least one episode < 1183571430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm pretty sure they don't change that < 1183571451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must've happened, or futurama is fake :| < 1183571476 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime when someone travels to the past, a new worldline is created through a parallel universe < 1183571519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so our past cannot be changed unless we do it ourselves? < 1183571570 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1183571572 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1183571590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm pretty sure time travel has been proven impossible though :) < 1183571602 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think so < 1183571610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still undecided < 1183571615 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant take yourself out of existence, when you go to the past to kill you grandfather before you were born < 1183571658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: why not? < 1183571681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: if you return, how many yous will there be if you ) kill yourself in the past b) don't < 1183571685 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a new worldline is created as soo as you appear there.. ..it differs from the existing one because of the fact that you are there < 1183571687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)/a) < 1183571708 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returning is to the present is more difficult < 1183571759 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worldline can be a tiny bit offsetted and some datails might be different from the point of time when you left < 1183571762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel cannot exist because anyone who invents it inevitably changes history so that they didn't :) < 1183571780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travels!?! < 1183571787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, because that wouldn't effect this university < 1183571790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but create a new one < 1183571792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cute < 1183571801 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :university < 1183571812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1183571813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1183571818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i need coffee < 1183571819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1183571828 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: so you're assuming that simply traveling in time splits the entire universe in two? I don't think that passes Occam's Razor < 1183571891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time travel can't exist because we don't see time travelers taking a tourist trip here. < 1183571896 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. like all decisions do < 1183571897 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: what about regular space-like teleportation? Does that create a new universe? < 1183571915 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: or do you assume that time travel can exist and teleportation can't? < 1183571925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd notice because, of course, any futuristic ideas of what the past looks like would *suck*. < 1183571935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Obviously one implies the other. < 1183572011 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea.. i think so.. every event does.. john titor explained how this works, a few years ago < 1183572044 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: okay, define "event" and we all will be happy < 1183572139 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that happens on a defined point in time and space.. like an atom decaying < 1183572175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an atom decaying creates a new universe? I object to this theory on esthetic grounds. < 1183572215 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parallel universe creates its own space and time, so it doesnt affect the one it was coming from < 1183572233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say that's exactly what quantum mechanics estates < 1183572243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: actually, you need the universes to interact in order to explain things like the double slit experiment. < 1183572246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :splittidy split < 1183572255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tok-A-Mak: sometimes split universes do merge together. < 1183572268 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea about that < 1183572272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, it's not what QM states, but it is a way to explain its effects. < 1183572284 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not the only or a particularly popular way. < 1183572399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess... indeed now that i come to think of it i've read two book about it, neither had that opinion < 1183572415 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*books < 1183572418 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this theory is caled "Many worlds" < 1183572431 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense than Copenhagen but it's still ugly < 1183572556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know Copenhagen < 1183572563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you mean the city) < 1183572573 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read two books about QM and you don't know the copenhagen interpretation? < 1183572593 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did either book mention schroedinger's cat? < 1183572639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1183572641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both i think < 1183572672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read two random books about it < 1183572680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both written for noobs < 1183572681 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation < 1183572840 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1183572841 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat < 1183572845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read that < 1183572904 0 :Tok-A-Mak!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks schrödinger was a sick pervert ;p < 1183572963 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.19.82.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1183573010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know schrödinger's cat < 1183573020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1183573047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not mean i need not rad it < 1183573049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ead < 1183573055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*read < 1183573076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the definition of * is... < 1183573263 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183573462 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1183575604 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1183576198 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1183577659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Supper" < 1183578087 0 :Toyd!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1183578434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1183582159 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1183582931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a language < 1183582937 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more of a variant of Self < 1183583213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i'm mistaken, the factorial function is like this: < 1183583213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N.set.factorial[@.=1.if[1][@.-1.*@]] < 1183583231 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now 5.factorial! will return 120 < 1183583234 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love dense languages < 1183583338 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1183583356 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, dc wins < 1183583409 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming Bar is a child of Foo, running a method Method of Bar on Foo (as opposed to Foo.Method) is done like this: < 1183583413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer my personal dc implementation. . . < 1183583420 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1183583426 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bar.Method.set.@ Foo ! < 1183583444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it pretty? :) < 1183583467 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spaces unnecessary, make that Bar.Method.set.@Foo! < 1183583469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push-down automaton. < 1183583475 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementing dc would probably be fun < 1183583492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like stacks. < 1183583517 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lurv stacks < 1183583518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fairly trivial, even if you write the stack implementation yourself. < 1183583583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/dc.c.tar.bz2 Only a subset, but still fairly trivial. < 1183583696 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very very subset < 1183583723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how you define the cons-cell datatype: < 1183583723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set.cons[ab|new!.set.car a .set.cdr b] < 1183583727 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's even turing complete < 1183583744 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that language looks extremely different from Haskell... < 1183583764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can express the list (1 2 3) as < 1183583765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 EmptyList)) < 1183583777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_: it's extremely similar to smalltalk/self < 1183583780 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes. < 1183583813 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io is a very nice variant of Self, Smalltalk, Lisp, and NewtonScript's Actors. < 1183583816 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I oughta look at Smalltalk or something. < 1183583817 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and constant width numbers... < 1183583840 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could make an esolang based on generic zippers! >:-) < 1183583844 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io is a bit too verbose < 1183583859 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something like Io but for interactive development over IRC. < 1183583860 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Generic zippers are why I need to keep looking at delimited continuations.) < 1183583861 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's meant to be readable, like SmallTalk. < 1183583868 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how to hack closures onto dc < 1183583877 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say, I prefer Io over Plof, GregorR. < 1183583915 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it takes some 5-10 minutes to learn, depending on your reading speed. < 1183584151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjusted syntax a little, now factorial is < 1183584152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N.set.factorial[@=1.if[1][@-1*@]] < 1183584319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do explain ! < 1183584363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.foo is like 'foo in scheme - a first-class name < 1183584375 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar means "run foo with argument bar" < 1183584401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when foo is an object (not a procedure) and bar is a name, "running" foo with bar returns the attribute 'bar' of the object. < 1183584425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] lambda @ args < 1183584469 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[body] is a block taking no arguments < 1183584478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is "this" < 1183584483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1183584582 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding the While loop to the language: < 1183584583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B.set.whileTrue [l|@!?[l!;@.whileTrue l]] < 1183584599 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we can do: < 1183584637 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[pigs.canFly].whileTrue["hello world".print!] < 1183584695 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(loops endlessly or dies depending on the value of pigs.canFly) < 1183584929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my experience that's false < 1183585061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing numbers from 99 down to 1: [n|n==0.if[][n.print;#(n-1)]]99! < 1183585083 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no exclamation mark < 1183585139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(out-$1..99 in oklotalk :P) < 1183585160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183585167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] takes no args? < 1183585174 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it takes one, called n < 1183585178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1183585190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#? < 1183585193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion < 1183585194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1183585199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# refers to the current block. < 1183585205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I never said mine was Turing complete. < 1183585205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183585214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[n.print;#(n-1)] refers to this? < 1183585214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1183585221 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that would be wrong < 1183585223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I claimed that it was a push-down automaton. ;) < 1183585228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in oklotalk, i had that problem < 1183585235 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99[dp1-d0r>f]dsfx < 1183585235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i solved it :) < 1183585237 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc wins < 1183585256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out-$1..99 < 99[dp1-d0r>f]dsfx ! < 1183585257 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prins the numbers from 99 down to 1 < 1183585257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wins in terms of what? < 1183585263 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortness < 1183585275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't intend to engage in any shortness contests < 1183585281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though oklotalk's was pretty dull there < 1183585287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: I kind of like the general *flavor* of Plof, though. < 1183585298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like C, but much saner. . . < 1183585302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ## ? < 1183585303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1183585332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a[b[c[###->a ##->b #->c]]] < 1183585346 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1183585355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, actually, this, maybe? < 1183585372 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1183585385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider an argument taking function an object and a normal block not < 1183585387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then @ < 1183585393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this == @, i mean < 1183585399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wan't exactly clear there :D < 1183585404 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you weren't. < 1183585422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or, actually, this, maybe?" is one of the most obscure things i've ever seen. < 1183585436 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's obscure. It's just nonsense. < 1183585448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think it means anything, you're confused about what means means. < 1183585470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"or, actually" == "on the other hand" < 1183585482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this, maybe?" suggests you try using "this" < 1183585530 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ refers to the 'caller object', like 'this' in Python. < 1183585542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in most languages. < 1183585544 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, self in python, this in smalltalk. < 1183585564 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(would be pretty if it were called 'python' in self) < 1183585825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: did you choose how to fix it yet? < 1183585850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is very important to me, it seems < 1183585859 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the way you suggested. < 1183586292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, a program written in a reversible language that allows metaprogramming that quines itself and then runs itself back to the beginning < 1183586296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183586312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that of course might be an infinite recursion < 1183586342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sentences are very nonsensial < 1183586490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language where every program is a quine. < 1183586538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and hidden turing completeness < 1183586541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in nopol < 1183586549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i gotta finish nopol some day < 1183586823 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Io is like C but a lot saner too. < 1183586832 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a lot more introspective and interactive. < 1183587355 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io is like C??!?!?!?? < 1183587358 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what? < 1183587509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/s/fractum.exe good i get hooked easily :D < 1183587872 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: More like C than Lisp or Haskell. < 1183587929 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: i thought Io was almost exactly Smalltalk? < 1183587992 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Which is more C-like than Lisp and Haskell, no? < 1183588005 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: i don't see how it's C-like in any way < 1183588021 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: You have if, and foor, and while. < 1183588030 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have parentheses delimiting blocks. < 1183588046 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And arguments are given to messages just like arguments are given to a C function. < 1183588057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: that's syntax. < 1183588072 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closeness of languages is not normally judged by the syntax. < 1183588087 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1183588110 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, strictly message-passing OOP is more-or-less imperative. < 1183588175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a good way to start a flamewar in some OOP channel :) < 1183588190 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop is imperative < 1183588209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it is? < 1183588220 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1183588226 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many very parallel programming languages are there? < 1183588253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i don't se how... < 1183588255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*see < 1183588266 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cellular automaton-based and such... < 1183588487 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I'll bet your mom does, though. < 1183588517 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what's imperative? < 1183588709 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1183589157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: you were reading ankos then? < 1183589164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uploaded it for me < 1183589172 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ankos? < 1183589174 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1183589177 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A New Kind of Science. < 1183589180 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1183589181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1183589186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read it? < 1183589189 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of it. < 1183589195 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only on page 130 or so. < 1183589199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1183589203 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you finish it? < 1183589209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on 453... not much happened yet :D < 1183589222 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten some nice ideas already. < 1183589231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until page 320 or so it's just looking for randomness < 1183589246 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, I wanna create a digital instrument that synthesizes waveforms based on cellular automata. < 1183589254 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1183589272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183589302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've thought of that, but with particles that move non discretely < 1183589312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cellular automata might make it easier to make < 1183589321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, make it play it as music? < 1183589331 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just make the wave for the hell of it < 1183589387 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it play music. < 1183589414 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you aturrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrro < 1183589426 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aturo? < 1183589450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've played a lot with ca, perhaps that ruined my experience :) < 1183589461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's getting more and more interesting < 1183589485 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played only marginally with them, I guess. < 1183589492 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never found them interesting until Ankos. < 1183589498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a 1d cellular automata simulator and a fractal generator < 1183589507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's somewhat inspiring < 1183589513 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, he doesen't start the actual physical modelling 'till page 500? < 1183589518 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I scanned through the book for yucks.) < 1183589521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, in the course of a few days just because of the book < 1183589566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made many cellular automata and fractals before of course, though it took me days to finish them then :P < 1183589648 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. His register machine and arithmetic based ones are quite fun. < 1183589655 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guh. My RSI is coming back. < 1183589740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think physical modelin started somewhere between 300...499 < 1183589742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*400 < 1183589746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*modeling < 1183589755 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's quite interesting for me. < 1183589773 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I seem to be more of an engineer than a theoretician. < 1183589809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :water flowing around a solid object is simulated < 1183589816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was awesome < 1183589858 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a fluids fan at all (actually, I can't stand fluids). < 1183589863 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an EE/RF person. < 1183589897 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna see if I can simulate antenna radiation patterns through cellular automata, because my math isn't quite sophisticated enough to solve the more complicated diff eqs. for antenna theory. < 1183589898 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluid is what flooooooows < 1183589940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluid is great, the more particles the happier :) < 1183590164 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if we can build a small FPGA with opcodes that simulate cellular automata waveforms, and then have it play in real time. < 1183590176 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, the futuristic instruments that Asimov and Heinlein wrote about :) < 1183590255 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the longer you hold the key, the cellular automata generates more of the waveform. < 1183590261 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you expect it to sound nice? < 1183590271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to :| < 1183590279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :white noise, most likely < 1183590289 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The waveforms that gave me the idea imply it will sound nice. < 1183590296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1183590310 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've seen many of those waveforms as I've edited music, and they're in actual instrumental portions, not just noise. < 1183590330 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: He shows graphs which look like waveforms in the numeric rule automata section. < 1183590350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think the cellular-automata-produced waveforms will sound similar? < 1183590365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the increment ones? < 1183590366 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Because I saw the waveforms ... < 1183590372 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, around there. < 1183590376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1183590378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check < 1183590402 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: you mean the waveforms in ankos? < 1183590420 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yes. < 1183590464 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1183590471 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remain unconvinced. < 1183590476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, subsequent numbers form a nested shape < 1183590483 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably picked the nicest-looking parts of the wave, too. < 1183590490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't mean that? < 1183590566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: i'm not really sure what you mean < 1183590566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what makes using cellular automata to generate sound any different from using any other algorithm to generate sound < 1183590583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the sound i've heard that was generated by computers without direct human intervention sounded like ass. < 1183590596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise is great <3 < 1183590664 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(direct human intervention - that is, changing the process on the fly) < 1183590850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of simulating the movement of a spring in a box full of particles and sampling sound from pressure changes < 1183590874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that's sound anything even close to an actual instrument though < 1183590901 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's an instrument, you get human controllable parameters, obviously. < 1183590902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would be fun to try at least < 1183590924 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: i just don't understand what would using a non-traditional process achieve. You won't get a "new sound". < 1183590951 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's a proof of concept. < 1183591039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the following concepts have been proven beyond any doubt: < 1183591042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) programs produce output < 1183591052 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) any kind of information can be taken to represent a waveform < 1183591101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ca might create a sound that hasn't been tried, even if it naturally could've been < 1183592183 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: My Lisp program doesen't produce output, it only returns things. < 1183592193 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same with my Io program. < 1183592210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's a crucial difference < 1183592225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i don't think that's a difference < 1183592244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: are you implementing it? < 1183592342 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i'm not sure what Sukoshi meant by that < 1183592430 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"