< 1184198603 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zbrown: Ah. < 1184198643 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said before, I play when I can, but thats just 30 minutes at a time through the day < 1184199136 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=ihavdeb4@222-154-161-215.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1184199674 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: whats the plan for development, are we separating into various aspects to handle? < 1184199841 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zbrown: Well, the first thing on the list is for everyone to finish reading the Kawa docs. < 1184199860 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also going through the Scheme examples, assuming you know Scheme. < 1184200935 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm that should be fun, I don't know scheme < 1184200939 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more langauges to learn! < 1184200960 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then go through the JavaScript example? < 1184200981 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, understand the way Kawa works. < 1184200994 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1184201006 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know javascript, but i suppose I could understand it < 1184201009 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, RMS told GST project leader that he wanted a shift in focus. < 1184201017 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1184201020 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1184201033 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While GST focused on scripting/headless ST before, now he wants it to go the other direction and compete with Squeak and VW. < 1184201100 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thats cool < 1184201151 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm focusing on GST < 1184201166 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its the only one I've been able to get consistent results out of < 1184201317 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing is the GUI is a bit on the cumbersome side. < 1184201451 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi: true. does kinda suck, but i'll figure it out < 1184201459 0 :zbrown!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can live with that, Squeak bugs the hell outta me < 1184201465 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1184203024 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1184208062 0 :fax!n=pacman@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1184208063 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1184208081 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any news on the smalltalk front? :p < 1184208383 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1184208428 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: Yo-z. < 1184208460 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) Get familliar with Smalltalk. B) Get familliar with Kawa (and read the Scheme implementation too). C) I wanna start maybe some time next week. < 1184208477 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :col < 1184208478 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1184208484 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read much of Kawa? < 1184208493 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was skimming it but I do not understand it at all @_@ < 1184208498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... is proving a system turing complete itself subject to the decision problem? < 1184208533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll ask oerjan when he comes, though you are all welcome to answer as well < 1184208566 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesen't look too hard so far. < 1184208571 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anime time. < 1184208576 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More anime time, rather.) < 1184208584 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1184209859 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@c-76-27-232-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1184210216 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello GregorR < 1184210251 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Gre-whatever. < 1184210294 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sculls a Diet Cherry Vanilla Orange Grape Lemon Lime Mint Roast Chicken Mayonnaise and Cola Dr. Pepper < 1184210317 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmmmm < 1184210337 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the chicken that gives it that savory goodness. < 1184210370 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1184210672 0 :sp3tt!n=sp3tt@80-162.cust.umeaenergi.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1184210790 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nanowattage < 1184210829 0 :oklokok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherry also sounds good < 1184210905 0 :nanowattage!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :giantMaleOrgan < 1184210935 0 :giantMaleOrgan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR-L < 1184211369 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qdb.us/97533 < 1184211492 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1184211901 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, nice < 1184212059 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qdb.us/97386 < 1184215024 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1184215353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1184215536 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1184217048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1184219249 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1184221783 0 :wooby!n=wooby@cpe-76-50-58-8.buffalo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1184221853 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1184222040 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1184222135 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1184223128 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@c-76-27-232-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1184223170 0 :wooby!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1184224562 0 :Sukoshi!n=Sukoshi@user-11fab8o.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1184225939 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :^_` < 1184226108 0 :^_`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :N0body < 1184226689 0 :N0body!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1184227199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1184227200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1184227339 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting off now, cya < 1184227392 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bai bai" < 1184227677 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1184227912 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1184228093 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1184234410 0 :ttm!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1184234428 0 :ttm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is dbc) < 1184234438 0 :ttm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still dicking around with old brainfuck programs) < 1184234467 0 :ttm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>++++++[>++++++++<-]+[[>.[>]+<<[->-<<<]>[>+<<]>]>++<++]) < 1184234684 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!egobot >>++++++[>++++++++<-]+[[>.[>]+<<[->-<<<]>[>+<<]>]>++<++] < 1184234687 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1184234693 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf >>++++++[>++++++++<-]+[[>.[>]+<<[->-<<<]>[>+<<]>]>++<++] < 1184234705 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1184234707 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 Sukoshi: bf < 1184234708 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 Sukoshi: ps < 1184235578 0 :ttm!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It outputs a nonterminating sequence, maybe that's the problem. < 1184236087 0 :ehird!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1184240579 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1184243778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1184243813 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1184243875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1184243980 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1184243999 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1184244098 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1184245662 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1184245700 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i wonder if a language that only operated on the program itself could be turing-complete < 1184245723 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. to read in an input string you'd change the part of the code defining a variable to include the characters read in, then jump there < 1184245758 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "jumping" is just modifying the program source code to be src+src < 1184246265 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-dimensional of course < 1184248885 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-234-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1184252206 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1184252817 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1184253445 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: If the source is taken to be infinite and (outside the code itself) filled with zeroes, maybe. < 1184253468 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: If the source limits the size of the memory, no (though it could be TC within the limits of bounded memory) < 1184253577 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the Dupdog hello world project < 1184253845 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have serious doubts about that language's TC potential, although it has more to do with the difficulty of doing conditionals than the more apparent insanity < 1184255781 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-6-40.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1184256706 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, infinite, yes < 1184256728 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands like : for input would make the character right of themselves the ascii value of a character read in < 1184256736 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just : evaluates one command < 1184256839 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1184256843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they should replace themselves < 1184257245 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1184257261 0 :jix__!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-232-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1184257528 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'm quitting... Bye all" < 1184257793 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1184257838 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. A 2d language like a game would be interesting. e.g. you can have little "cars" (>, <, v and ^) which move in that direction each cycle, and things like bouncers ((, ), -, _) which bounce the cars in the opposite direction < 1184257846 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and special bouncers which run commands, or whatever < 1184257852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a more specific Game of Life < 1184257892 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. with (> ) it'd progress into ( > ), then ( > ), then ( >), then bounce into ( <), ( < ), etc. infinitely < 1184257932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could have "planes" which carry objects, then you could make them crash into a special kind of bouncer to change its directions for conditionals, etc < 1184257937 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1184258417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: have you looked at Rube? < 1184258430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes - but it's not quite the same, relaly < 1184258491 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at BBM! :-) < 1184258837 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBM? < 1184258865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big Bad Mamas? < 1184258889 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, constructions such as this are interesting: (> B-) - B is a breeder which when hit with another object, covers itself with a clone of that for one cycle) < 1184258902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it'd infinitely shoot cars downwards < 1184258906 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Billiard ball model/machine. < 1184258933 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1184259041 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More precisely, when an object collides with B, it bounces it in the opposite direction, and covers itself with a clone of the object for one cycle, going in the same direction as before it was bounced off B) < 1184259119 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.caboo.se/78346 one cycle of the breeder < 1184259168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>B-) is faster, actually, and probably preferable < 1184259184 0 :jix__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jix < 1184259818 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1184259850 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hail Eris! < 1184260731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Is a language with only first-class continuations which take 1 argument turing complete? < 1184260735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's close enough to LC.. < 1184260756 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Subtle cough < 1184260756 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1184260763 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which follows no < 1184260777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it would be TC < 1184260794 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use unlambda with only the c operator and ` and see what you get < 1184260801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtle_cough :) < 1184260839 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay < 1184260842 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. I invented something which somebody then later independently invented. < 1184260861 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1184260900 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder. given subtle cough, what is the minimum you can add to it to make it turing complete? < 1184260909 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without using anything silly like the iota combinator < 1184260935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i doesn't help. < 1184260952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i as in I or i as in iota < 1184260961 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because iota obviously helps, seeing as that you only need ` and i < 1184260963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1184260974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well - yeah, I is pretty useless here < 1184260981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ci == `cc iirc < 1184261024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe k? < 1184261110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least k gives you infinitely many values < 1184261152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt v would be very helpful < 1184261166 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think k might. < 1184261185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends. it is only c which makes v useful in Unlambda. < 1184261192 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is [[MechaniQue]] actually esoteric? < 1184261199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, the author of it says yes < 1184261205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(without continuations, v cannot be escaped from) < 1184261207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its a bit shaky yeah < 1184261223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, we are talking about v := \x. v right? < 1184261231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1184261238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well - subtle cough has c < 1184261251 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so c + v == turing complete? it seems unlikely, but then so does iota == turing complete < 1184261290 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author says: < 1184261291 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's also esoteric because the language abandons the concept of variables. Instead it uses a lock and key system which could be compared with a global-space inventory that holds booleans." < 1184261331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`vv == `vc == v == `vx for any x which actually returns to its continuation < 1184261350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about `cv < 1184261355 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cv = v < 1184261363 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes... that is true =P < 1184261372 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some x, `cv = `vx = v < 1184261391 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what about c + k? It doesn't sound TC to me < 1184261396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell, "locks" are simply boolean variables < 1184261408 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, look at some of the example code. < 1184261417 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or c + s! < 1184261432 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://esolangs.org/forum/kareha.pl/1148745423/l50 < 1184261437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ck returns k of the current continuation to the current continuation < 1184261473 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, forums < 1184261509 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they so ugly :) < 1184261514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's _rather_ slow for a forum :D < 1184261534 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the forum < 1184261535 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the forum is a bit redundant given the wiki < 1184261541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the channel) < 1184261543 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like anonymous forums < 1184261589 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, the forums do seem a bit slow :) < 1184261614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend to check it once a month or so < 1184261850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``cck -> `(`*k)k -> `kk < 1184261895 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, lemme... < 1184261932 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:``cck -> 2:``c1k -> ``12k -> `2k -> `kk < 1184261998 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S wouldn't help, so... hmm.. *would* S help.. < 1184262026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: i don't think your notation is precise enough < 1184262045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s + k is rather well known to help. :) < 1184262076 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1184262086 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean just c+s < 1184262119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even c+k is not proven. there may be a _lot_ of cases. < 1184262179 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about trying to convert the lambda expression in http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/S_and_K_Turing-completeness_proof to the languages? that would be a quick way to prove/disprove them < 1184262204 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my notation is plenty precise. < 1184262219 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda defines evaluation order. < 1184262229 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 1:`c`kk -> ``kk1 -> k < 1184262240 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to make an infinite loop of any kind, eh? < 1184262247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`c``sss -> ```sss(*) -> ``s(*)`s(*) < 1184262266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, ``cc`cc is an infinite loop < 1184262267 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make an infinite loop with just ` and c, so. < 1184262270 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1184262303 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can? < 1184262307 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's... < 1184262373 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:``cc`cc -> 2:``c1`cc -> ``12`cc -> `2`cc -> 3:``cc`cc -> ... < 1184262487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s takes so many arguments it is easy to get stuck < 1184262496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like with 0x29A) < 1184262528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, not _quite_ like it) < 1184262594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think c + s has a chance of being TC < 1184262596 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1184262806 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1184264311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The core site for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://www.ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184264387 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1184264390 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1184264618 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The core site for esoteric programming language design and deployment | FORUM: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | WIKI: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184264631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some stuff moved to channel entry message) < 1184264666 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :FORUM: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | WIKI: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184264670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the ircbrowse logs? < 1184264685 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my previous comment. < 1184264712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can actually find that link from the tunes.org link. < 1184264777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, how about this: < 1184264789 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :FORUM: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | WIKI: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184264811 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter! < 1184264821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you removed the description. remember that the topic is what shows up in /list. < 1184264839 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1184264843 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody still use /list? < 1184264873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do occasionally, to check out channels others are on. < 1184264887 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming language design and deployment | FORUM: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | WIKI: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184264929 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forum and wiki can be combined into one URL. < 1184264957 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Esoteric programming language design and deployment | FORUM AND WIKI: http://esolangs.org/ | LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184265017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... the main page on esolangs.org is not exactly fashionable. < 1184265035 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it much more than, say, the main page of the forums :) < 1184265054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as bad as my own homepage :/ < 1184265062 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad? < 1184265069 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it bad? < 1184265077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just boring < 1184265093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in design) < 1184265100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really having any < 1184265124 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could ask graue to put a flash intro there. < 1184265137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not _that_ far :D < 1184265162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally i think that page is an example of what's known as "good design" < 1184265198 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do we need a link to the pastebin? < 1184265214 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people put in in the url in programming-related channels because of flooding < 1184265218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we ever had that problem < 1184265232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most people know where the pastebins are < 1184265272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not an esoteric-specific link.... < 1184265288 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we just need an #esoteric page < 1184265311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this obsession with getting the topic short anyhow? < 1184265322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too long. < 1184265360 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a good place for an #esoteric page... the wiki! < 1184265378 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the wiki does not have a page about the channel... seems on-topic enough < 1184265413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's under the community page i guess < 1184265478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, which is almost impossible to find, and meant for editors. < 1184265502 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so it seems. < 1184265513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible? it's the second link in the menu. < 1184265533 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it is, didn't notice :) < 1184265545 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see!) < 1184265551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah! :D < 1184265572 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :. < 1184265577 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shortened the topic for you < 1184265590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks. I wasn't brave enough to do that. < 1184265591 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my compression algorithm is unbeatable < 1184265611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very easy to implement: just replace all occurences of . with Esoteric programming language design and deployment | FORUM AND WIKI: http://esolangs.org/ | LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/ | PASTEBIN: http://pastebin.ca/ < 1184265662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can beat it! < 1184265666 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : < 1184265691 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just replace all occurances of "" with "." and then apply ehird`s algorithm. < 1184265693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, how do i create a negative-length string? anyone? < 1184265697 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : < 1184265700 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1184265702 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i removed the single space! < 1184265728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win. < 1184265793 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Too much free time + no life = esoteric programming! < 1184265856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/topic < 1184266108 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :桃色の花の中で囲む。 < 1184266154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :FOR A GOOD TIME CALL 555-123-6890 < 1184266202 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calls FOR A GOOD TIME. < 1184266388 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :while (topic) topic = "while (topic) ... < 1184266747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't DoubleFuck have an instruction to interact between the two tapes? < 1184266997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has loops for both. and in ordinary Brainfuck, you need loops to copy between two cells. < 1184267052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but still < 1184267147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :добро пожаловать в канал эзотерического программирования! < 1184267151 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's taken malebolge's modulo-commands to the next level to produce something like (character + some value of a register, or something like that + position in program) % (some other program-related thing) < 1184267167 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "AB" will not work the same as "A" followed by "B" as the meanings will change < 1184267177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something along those lines < 1184267213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check out [[Aura]] < 1184267304 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aura just does mod 8? < 1184267325 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the way characters are turned into instructions depends on the position in the program, different register values, stuff like that < 1184267354 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you write instructions "A" and "B" and you want to execute A then B, you can't do "AB" since the algorithm will have changed (in a predictable way, of course - no random numbers) < 1184267384 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in aura you can't execute AB because A will modify B. < 1184267393 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the same, though. < 1184267406 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AB" will still be perfectly valid code, it'd just do something different because the translation would be different < 1184267448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine then, check out Dupdog. < 1184267582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda similar, yeah < 1184267596 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more malebolge-extending madness: instead of base-3, base-i < 1184268230 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe: ins = ((chr + pos) * len(code)) % number-of-instructions < 1184268492 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html the last comment here makes me weep < 1184268568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find some comfort in that the Java prints the wrong text :D < 1184268574 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: don't forget phase of the moon. < 1184268610 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, should i make the interpreter refuse to run any code on full moon? < 1184268667 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just make phase of the moon one of the things affecting the semantics of the instructions < 1184268731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about unix timestamp < 1184268759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL < 1184268770 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, exists < 1184268812 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean on top of evertything else. < 1184269600 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have devised an operation crazier than the crazy operation < 1184269604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using base-4 < 1184269669 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost looks like a random number generator. 332101 op 133112 = 31323 < 1184269712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that your evidence for it "looking like a random number generator"? < 1184269808 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no -- but it produces equally absurd transformations on other numbers < 1184269892 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's 1 op 1? < 1184269947 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1184269977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 op 0? 0 op 1? 0 op 0? < 1184269995 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 op 0 = 2, x op y is always y op x, 0 op 0 is 3. < 1184270050 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frankly that doesn't seem all that absurd. < 1184270066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it sounds rather close to a generalization of SAT. < 1184270076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrong channel) < 1184270094 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more absurd than crazy < 1184270096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that fit in here as well :D < 1184270210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, there are just 16 numbers, why not list the matrix? < 1184270257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1184270284 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4*4 = 16 < 1184270306 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :op = Z for brevity. 0 Z 0 = 3, 0 Z 1 = 2, 0 Z 2 = 1, 0 Z 3 = 0, 1 Z 1 = 3, 1 Z 2 = 3, 1 Z 3 = 0, 2 Z 2 = 2, 2 Z 3 = 1, 3 Z 3 = 3 < 1184270321 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: commutative < 1184270330 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait < 1184270335 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right. < 1184270374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i did not see the commutativity < 1184270401 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how's that interesitng in any way? < 1184270407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's 10 < 1184270411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(any way, how's that interesting in anyway?) < 1184270414 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, how's it not interesting in any way? < 1184270468 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks... rather arbitrary. < 1184270499 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And crzy isn't arbitary? < 1184270544 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any kind of _interesting_ crazy. < 1184270551 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the crazy operation < 1184270553 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge's. < 1184270580 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 C 0 = 1, 0 C 1 = 0, 0 C 2 = 0, 1 C 0 = 1, 1 C 1 = 0, 1 C 2 = 2, 2 C 0 = 2, 2 C 1 = 2, 2 C 2 = 2 < 1184270582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is very arbitary < 1184270593 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. That one's not interesting either. < 1184270613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does however have some properties that makes it hard to use. < 1184270659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so does Z < 1184270679 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: properties that a randomly filled matrix is not likely to have? < 1184270691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i don't know. < 1184270728 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that one isn't commutative, which is probably rather important < 1184270733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _do_ notice however that (x Z 0) Z 0 = x, which means it is already more convenient than malbolge's operator < 1184270761 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1184270762 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you're right < 1184270763 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1184270766 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't notice that, hah < 1184270945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Malbolge you have ((x op 1) op 1) op 1 = x, so it is harder to get back the original value < 1184270962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1184270999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread, they are not that different, (x op 1) op 1 = x < 1184271011 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1184271048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, 1 op (1 op x) < 1184271103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, for both only one value gives a permutation < 1184271227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, with your operator you cannot get 1 or 2 from starting with just 0 < 1184271261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might actually be _very_ awkward. < 1184271314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not. < 1184271317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a compliment? =)_ < 1184271321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1184271388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, having an extra digit does increase the risk that some more easily useful combination may arise. < 1184271479 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'd be more interesting in base i < 1184271489 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm: http://acm.uva.es/p/v111/11180.html < 1184271503 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a nicely insane base < 1184274132 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1184274692 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0Z0=3, 0Z3=0, 3Z3=3 < 1184274718 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, Z acting on {0,3} is XOR < 1184274741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems... useful :) < 1184275577 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1184275753 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1184278911 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1184279147 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/mac.h.html <-- Ouch. < 1184279226 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1184279395 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1184279514 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1184279955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell, haha < 1184279958 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that for < 1184279966 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait -- was that actually THE unix shell? < 1184279973 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1184279974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it just compiled C with those macros? < 1184279980 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1184279990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/ i think you're wrong < 1184280003 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was no suc thing as an experienced C programmer back then. < 1184280018 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/main.c.html look, the sh code just uses those macros < 1184280024 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't actually the unix shell =) < 1184280030 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: erm, yeah, that's what I meant < 1184280033 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1184280042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant that the shell just wrapped around cc using that header. heh < 1184280048 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but - wtf, what is the point of thst < 1184280054 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably algol programmers... < 1184280063 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There was no suc thing as an experienced C programmer back then." < 1184280074 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but these guys >invented< C, for christ's sake < 1184280078 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they hack around its syntax? < 1184280580 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was K&R, not Bourne. < 1184280595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true. < 1184280624 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH they all just merge into one bearded figure in my head. < 1184280632 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as Ken Thompson. < 1184283865 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1184284407 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it burns