00:00:13 for example english tends to use the word 'the' more often than other languages :) 00:00:13 -!- test__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:01:44 yes, but i don't really concentrate on single words when readin 00:01:45 *reading 00:02:44 i can always tell which language it is if i actually logically derive it from a word in the sentence, i just find it weird it doesn't automatically happen as i read the actual gist of the sentence in 00:02:54 *-in 00:06:36 how many languages do you know? 00:07:59 i know 2 well enough to think in them, plus 2 i can somewhat communicate with 00:08:09 i've read a bit of everything though 00:08:19 maybe it'll pass if you learn more ;) 00:08:23 oh, i know my friend's language ZX3 pretty well 00:08:27 yeah, true :P 00:08:38 next japanese and spanish 00:08:45 japanese because... well everybody does it 00:08:49 and spanish is sexy. 00:09:30 a mi tambien me gusta el espan~ol 00:09:46 tambien = also? 00:09:49 yes 00:10:08 and japanese... i could learn the language but i have no hope of completely learning and understanding the culture.. so what's the point? 00:10:11 that whole structure is a bit strange to me, but i understand that much :P 00:10:29 we should all just speak the same language 00:10:35 well, a learned language is a learned language, who needs another reason than that. 00:10:47 bsmntbombdood: and play with imaginary ones like spanish. 00:10:49 then we could build a tower to heaven 00:10:54 oklokok: well, what would you use it for? 00:11:13 oklokok: to be able to read japanese literature, simply knowing the language is not enough 00:11:24 you need to understand all the cultural references 00:11:46 this is true of every language, but japanese culture is just so... alien 00:11:55 lament: there aren't really any cultures i know that well. 00:12:35 i watched a japanese movie recently, and then read an overview of what happened there, and i basically missed everything :) 00:12:39 and i think i *could* read japanese literature by learning the language 00:12:42 heh 00:12:44 (because of not knowing the culture) 00:12:56 can you specify what exactly you misunderstood? 00:13:32 for example, the low caste of the main character could be deduced from the fact that he used to work as a shoemaker. 00:13:47 (the main character holds a high position in a shoemaking company) 00:15:01 the key concept there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin 00:15:14 he holds a high position there, but is still low caste? 00:15:47 quoting that article: 00:15:48 Akira Kurosawa made a political statement by having the main character work as a shoe industry executive who rose from humble origins as a simple leather worker, clearly implying (to Japanese audiences) the main character's burakumin status. 00:16:05 obviously that was completely lost on me 00:16:49 if you read literature and constantly miss things like that, that's not really "understanding" 00:17:03 so just learning the language is not enough :) 00:17:08 i wouldn't understand anything like that no matter what i was reading. 00:17:30 you would certainly catch more references to western culture, since you live surrounded by it. 00:17:33 well, i don't think you can make a political statement in english except explicitly. 00:18:14 well, for example you could make the leading character black. 00:18:35 i wouldn't notice. 00:18:42 a character is a character :\ 00:18:53 are black leading characters rare? 00:19:14 it's less of an issue these days 00:19:28 is *something* an issue these days? 00:19:33 well, okay, child porn 00:19:37 but that's also illegal. 00:19:46 lots of things are issues 00:19:48 so, basically nothing is a statement of any kind. 00:19:49 oh 00:19:57 well, i wouldn't know 00:20:02 please enlighten me :) 00:20:03 which country do you live in? 00:20:30 finland 00:20:43 you could make a statement by making the main character sexually deviated 00:20:43 i have no idea what the issues in finland are :) 00:20:59 Would you notice if the character were a Muslim of Russian descent? 00:21:17 a sexually deviant muslim of russian descent 00:21:27 i hardly ever pay attention to stuff like that when reading 00:21:47 authors rarely put stuff like that at random 00:21:54 if it's there, it's there for a reason 00:22:04 (not always, of course) 00:22:12 why do they give characters names then? 00:22:21 i never remember those, and they aren't important 00:22:27 names are often important. 00:22:47 how? 00:22:53 lament: i never remember a name, and i remember details like religion if they are somehow important in the events of the book 00:23:43 bsmntbombdood: sometimes it refers to a specific trait of the character. 00:24:00 but i don't think there's anything tabuish anymore, anywhere in the western countries. 00:24:07 if tabuish would be the same as issueish. 00:24:18 oklokok: sexuall deviancy 00:24:29 err, no. 00:24:31 oklokok: are you nuts? 00:24:41 well, as i said, you can't rape a child, anywhere 00:24:47 but that's all i can think of that's bad 00:24:56 oklokok: "bad" is not the same as issues 00:25:24 negrophilia is okay on tv, in books you can even tell details about it without even mentioning it in the cover or smth 00:25:29 lament: perhaps not 00:25:38 i don't really know 00:25:42 not that cultural 00:25:47 i watch family guy all day long. 00:25:48 :) 00:25:52 what do you expect 00:26:03 either you are trolling, or are really stupid 00:26:18 i'm not trolling, perhaps i'm stupid 00:26:29 where was i being stupid? 00:26:45 family guy consists almost entirely of cultural references. It's all about "present-day issues". 00:26:56 yes, but i don't get those 00:26:57 indeed 00:27:06 i laugh at the characters 00:27:11 oklokok: well 00:27:19 oklokok: you'd be able to appreciate japanese literature in the same way 00:27:26 oklokok: but it's a fairly shallow understanding 00:27:36 well, i don't want to know anything that deeper in any cultures :) 00:27:45 i didn't realize popstars etc were culture 00:27:46 you wish to be ignorant? 00:27:49 errr 00:27:54 about some stuff, yes 00:28:23 i don't want to remember stuff about sportsmen and musicians writing worse music that me 00:28:25 *than 00:28:33 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:28:39 well, worse music than better musicians 00:28:46 Have you heard about 9/11? 00:28:50 yes 00:28:55 Would you catch a reference to 9/11? 00:28:58 unfortunately 00:29:04 That's an "issue" :) 00:29:45 okay, you've convinced me somewhat 00:29:57 but i doubt i'd miss anything i'd care to have understood. 00:32:16 it could be central to understanding the actions of the characters. 00:32:33 so without understanding the reference, it would seem that the characters are acting irrationally. 00:32:56 i've watched anime, they seems pretty rational :\ 00:33:36 except for the fact they get excited about everything and otherwise show emotions, but that also happens in series in the us 00:34:06 or, for example, a difficult decision could seem simple and obvious to you 00:34:18 (a decision taken by a character) 00:34:31 because you don't know where the difficulty lies, not knowing the culture. 00:35:26 i see what you mean, but i don't believe that would disturb me 00:35:54 and sometimes you could misinterpret the actions completely 00:36:04 i do believe, of course, that i wouldn't understand what's happening, but the only thing i do *not* enjoy in a book is when it's predictable 00:36:17 for example, somebody in irc saying "im smrt" is a reference to the simpsons 00:36:21 i love david lynch's movies, and i don't understand even the stuff most people do :) 00:36:32 you could misinterpret it as them not knowing how to type 00:36:37 and thinking they're smart... 00:36:46 lament: i've seen every episode of simpsons 1-3 times, and i didn't know that 00:36:53 except if it was in a very new episode 00:37:12 oh 00:37:17 was that an example? :D 00:37:32 i mean, it's not really from simpsons is it? :D 00:37:39 it is. 00:37:42 oh :| 00:37:50 i'm bad at understanding anything, really 00:37:53 from where? 00:38:04 at some point homer says "I'm smart! S-M-R-T!" 00:38:20 oh, weird you'd remember that :| 00:38:34 he misspells a lot of words in the course of the series :) 00:38:53 ah, i actually remember him shouting that now 00:39:07 good that my hours watching them weren't a complete waste. 00:39:23 not only i remember that, but i haven't actually seen that episode. 00:39:30 heh :D 00:39:31 i just know the reference, because it's pretty common. 00:39:40 oh 00:40:05 never seen it elsewhere 00:40:42 well, being in finland you don't have to catch all the references to american culture :) 00:40:42 this channel, tv series and science books are my only source of english, though, that might be a reason. 00:40:50 right 00:41:10 but it's an example of how not knowing the culture could lead you to misinterpret stuff 00:41:36 books by serious writers often have detailed commentaries that list and explain all the references 00:41:51 oh 00:41:51 (eg james joyce is impossible to read otherwise) 00:41:53 that's cheating 00:41:58 heh 00:42:36 i haven't read a line of joyce 00:42:48 i learned the name playing an irc-trivia :) 00:43:15 i would say that the culture almost _is_ an aspect of the language itself 00:43:35 since it affects the meaning of what you say 00:45:44 yes, but i find it a lot less crucial than you, obviously :) 00:45:54 and you are smarter than me, so you are probably right. 00:46:13 (try and beat that argument!) 00:47:02 What *is* all that waffle? 01:02:59 zzzzzzzzz 01:05:14 lament: actually, about the 911 reference, fg has a whole episode about a plane crash, with at least a few 911 jokes, it took me 3 watchings of that episode to understand them 01:05:15 lament: Being in America, it's hard to catch all the references to your own culture. :p 01:05:58 so, actually, i wouldn't understand a 911 joke unless it was obvious like hell 01:07:12 (just a quick remark) 01:12:52 * oklokok assumes it's clear that kok/pol are the same thing 01:25:21 * pikhq is aware 01:51:12 * pikhq is also aware of his *severe* laziness towards actually designing a game to go with his engine 01:52:16 * oklopol is lazier than you 01:52:50 Really? 01:52:53 Prove it. 01:54:20 what've you done during the last 7 hours? 01:54:34 Wake up. 01:54:36 well, i haven't. 01:54:38 oh 01:54:40 that's all? 01:54:48 i've chatted on this chan 01:54:49 Hang out on IRC. 01:54:51 That's it. 01:54:58 oh 01:55:05 have you walked? 01:55:12 i did one trip to the kitchen 01:55:26 I walked from the bed to the computer to the kitchen and back to the computer. 01:56:01 Now, this may not sound as amazing until you realise that I woke up at noon. 01:56:36 i woke up 16:00. 01:57:06 Noice. 01:57:24 I stand corrected: you barely win. 01:57:36 heh 01:58:13 i did learn the periodic table last night 01:58:30 i'm not always lazy, but when i am, i own at it 01:58:35 * pikhq ought to go around and pimp his Brainfuck game engine for a bit. Claim to have done *something* with the day. 01:58:45 for the last 6 hours i've been planning to open family guy 01:58:50 but it's not open. 01:59:34 hmm, finishing ankos might also fit in the last 7 hours, i don't really know when i read it 01:59:46 the hours pass by so silently 02:00:19 most of the time there's no chatter anywhere, you know what a pro idler does then? he idles. 02:00:45 when i'm not creating these great monologues, i usually sit and stare at the still screen 02:01:01 when the screen saver gets on, i click a button 02:06:38 err, i didn't actually learn the whole table, just all the abbreviation/name hashes 03:57:46 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 04:53:22 I had an idea for a language recently, called "TER", which stands for To Every Rule. 04:54:29 logic, flow control and variables would all be synthesized around an Exception-based model. 04:55:14 the idea came to me while reading some absolutely hideous code that used TRY...CATCH blocks woven deeply around its logic. 04:59:45 thoughts, anyone? 04:59:55 is this idea worth writing a spec for? 04:59:55 Whoa. 05:00:46 I think that something reasonably elegant in terms of flow control could be constructed around this concept 05:00:47 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 05:01:13 and yet, at the same time, using the language would be a painful ordeal, which is generally a positive trait in esolangs 05:01:17 RodgerTheGreat: How goes the Smalltalking? 05:01:28 I recently got an idea for an esolang based around unit testing. 05:01:42 Where flow control is acheived through the successful execution of a bunch of tests for individual units. 05:02:04 I have made no progress with smalltalk in the last two days. Crypto + helping teach a class to middle-schoolers = tired rodger 05:02:44 I need to write a tutorial titled ``Learn Smalltalk for Lispers!'' heh. 05:03:16 Sukoshi: hm. I wonder if you could write something like that in an existing debugging system's commandset? 05:03:21 Sukoshi: Write a tutorial titled "Learn Lisp for Tclers!". 05:03:32 pikhq: That's your job, TCLer ;) 05:03:42 I'm writing a tutorial for writing games. 05:03:58 Sukoshi: I don't know Lisp. ;) 05:04:06 pikhq: o_O 05:04:23 RodgerTheGreat: A question -- what's the advantage of using the State practice pattern over a large case statement? Modularity? 05:04:36 RodgerTheGreat: Yeah. Aim it for the experienced non-game programmer. 05:04:47 I realized the other day that the most intuitive way to explain object oriented programming to kids could be teaching them to play human-pong, and then using that model throughout rebuilding the system in code. 05:04:48 Too many idiot tutorials for learning how to write games out there. 05:05:04 I like the BSD Robots model more. 05:05:12 Have you played BSD Robots? 05:05:32 I've played RoboWar for the mac and Corewar. Similar? 05:05:33 I ought to write "Writing Adventure Games in Brainfuck (using pebble)" 05:05:34 :p 05:05:43 Not at all RodgerTheGreat. 05:05:57 RodgerTheGreat: It's a very simple game, and perfect to implement in any new language. 05:06:11 One of those weird examples which can utilize almost every language's special strengths. 05:06:15 Anyways, the premise: 05:06:28 You're a player, and you're in a room (a grid) with a bunch of robots. 05:06:36 I want to make a paper that basically outlines the most important concepts and algorithms that you have to know cold for game programming. Things like using the state-machine model, types of collision detection, things you can do with timing and velocity, basic AI routines, etc 05:07:38 I'll assume familiarity with a language, and give examples in Java, without relying on anything major from the API. 05:08:01 You can move in the four cardinal directions, but robots can as well. Every step you take, the robots will get closer to where you were on the preceding turn. The object of the game is to maneuver such that the robots crash into each other. When one robot crashes into each other, it turns into a piece of trash. If you collide with a piece of trash or a robot, the game ends. If a robot collides with a piece of trash, it becomes on tras 05:08:01 h in that same spot. 05:08:09 I may conclude with some detailed Applet coding tricks, too, because they can be hard to come by these days 05:08:33 Sukoshi: ah. The original arcade game like that is called "Robotron" 05:08:48 There's one last thing: the player has a special ``teleport'' command, which telports you to a random point -- unfortunately, it can teleport you on top of a robot or outside of the field. In which case, you lose. 05:08:59 another version, in which you are Doctor Who, armed with a hypersonic screwdriver, is called "Daleks" 05:09:23 It's very well suited to objects, IMO. 05:09:33 I've never played with a teleport that could send you outside the field. :S 05:09:46 I agree with a lot of developers that Smalltalk teaches OOP methodologies better than Java (because it's easy to learn, and OOP). 05:09:46 you play a more evil version than I do, it would appear. 05:10:02 It's the BSD version :P 05:10:33 Java is less pure than Smalltalk, but it's more readily accessible, and the API makes it more immediately useful to people that want to write things like games 05:10:36 And also it's nice to teach, because the transition from ST to Java is very small. 05:11:10 Java's like C implemented on top of ST, minus ST's syntax. 05:11:10 except for the whole "WTF is a primitive again?" thing. :) 05:11:23 Yeah. But the class hierarchy is almost exactly the same. 05:11:32 So are the methods and generics, and *everything*. 05:12:04 Java's design seems roughly based on the idea of starting with C++ and fixing it. It's good, but there's only so far you can go with just another curly-bracket language 05:12:32 Well, Sun had a lot of ST investments back in the day. 05:12:38 yep 05:12:46 Hurry up and learn :3 05:12:59 If you're dedicated, you can probably finish that book in 2-3 hours (Smalltalk by Example). 05:13:31 I'll stop by the library tomorrow and see if they have a copy. 05:13:50 RodgerTheGreat: Curly-brackets can work pretty well for a language. 05:13:58 Plof == :) 05:14:12 I prefer square brackets. :D 05:14:19 LOGO and Bullet for the win 05:15:27 Square brackets? You'd love Tcl, then. 05:15:50 bullet's syntax is best described, currently, as looking like a mixture of LOGO and Verilog, with a pinch of COBOL mixed in. 05:15:58 We've got your quote marks, curly brackets, and square brackets *right here!* :p 05:16:17 http://brotherhood.twilightparadox.com <-- The cult thing is weird, it's on myspace (ewww), but read. 05:16:24 the mechanics of the language are a little C, a little Java, and a little LISP 05:16:36 RodgerTheGreat: I linked you to it in the section of free books. 05:16:51 I like dead trees, damnit 05:17:01 at least, when I'm learning a language 05:17:05 We all do, but good luck finding the dead tree :P 05:17:33 set var 0;puts [list "This is a quick example! $var" {See? $var won't be expanded here.} [expr $var ? "This won't be output." : "This will."]] 05:17:57 Outputs "This is a quick example! 0 See? $var won't be expanded here. This will." 05:18:18 the MTU library has a shitty fiction section, but damned if we don't have a good collection of CS texts 05:22:56 What is the advantage of the State pattern over a case statement? 05:23:50 what? 05:24:47 If you have a finite amount of states which are determined by say, parser input of a stream, what advantages would the polymorphic state pattern have over just a large case statement? 05:25:24 polymorphic... state pattern.. erm. Hm. 05:25:37 would that be something that intermixes state code or something? 05:26:11 Oh. I thought you had read the Design Patterns thingamabobber. 05:26:30 Here, an article says there's no point unless the case statement will be changed often. It won't here, so I may as well forego the state. 05:26:32 Back to Japanese. 05:26:45 * RodgerTheGreat rifles through safari windows for the design patterns thingamabobber 05:41:27 it's amazing how psychologically beneficial a pet can be, even if it isn't particularly "cuddly". 05:42:11 I find myself deeply attached to my Betta, who has been my constant companion since about halfway into last year. 05:44:27 sometimes I force myself to wake up on crappy days to feed him. Perhaps that's what pets are good for- they give you a reason to uphold your daily routine, and give you something in your life that you can feel in control of. The positive feedback of keeping another living creature alive through diligent work and your attention satisfies something deepset. 05:45:56 Either that or humans have such a deeply ingrained nurturing instinct that we have difficulty self-actualizing without something to care for. 05:46:14 some people like plants, some people like cats, I like my fish. 05:46:50 Hmm. 05:47:00 what do you think, pikhq? 05:47:05 * pikhq wonders if nurturing for a computer counts. :p 05:47:05 Japanese is my reason for a daily routine. 05:47:23 I lack a daily routine, although I could probably use one. 05:48:43 personifying a computer can probably satisfy some of the needs I discuss, I suppose (Hey, I name my computers too), but I can't help but think that a living organism is better suited to the task. 05:49:07 True. 05:49:42 The laptop I'm typing on is named Indigo, but I talk about Alpha, my fish, a great deal more often by name. 05:50:18 I'm on Frodo here. 05:51:14 it's reassuring to have his bowl on the desk, where I can turn my head for a moment to see him peacefully watching what I'm working on or occasionally flitting around to grab my attention and remind me it's feeding time. 05:52:05 This reminds me- I need to name the powerbook 145 I rescued from a dumpster the other day 05:53:51 my naming schemes are greek/roman/norse pantheon for servers and heavy-duty machines (like Hyperion, my ultra10) and colors for my personal computers (like indy here and Argent, my box back home.) 05:54:14 "personal computer" maps to "macintosh computer" in this case 05:54:50 my mom actually overlaps my color-name scheme- her laptop is named Aubergine 05:55:49 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:55:59 I'm on Yamayurikai. 05:57:21 Hm. I'm considering Vermillion, Saffron, Slate, Arsenic, Azure and Ultramerine 05:57:41 This kernel is named Mariasama. 05:57:42 does "Yamayuraikai" mean something in Japanese? 05:57:45 The next one shall be named Kanako. 05:58:01 *Ultramarine 05:58:06 RodgerTheGreat: Mountain Lily Club. It's the name of the student council in an anime/manga/novel series I am absolutely *fangirl frothy* about. 05:58:08 can't believe I made that typo 05:58:24 ah- haha 05:58:46 All my kernel names come from there too. 05:58:57 My last one was Sachiko, and before that it was Touko? 05:59:20 Oh no. The one before Sachiko was Kashiwagi. The one before *that* was Touko. 05:59:24 When I gave a spare thinkpad to a friend of mine, she named it Gilliam, which I thought was clever 05:59:40 Sukoshi: You name your *kernels*? 05:59:46 pikhq: Of course I do. 05:59:50 my trusty Handera is known as Durandal 06:00:00 Handera? I should name one Hanadera soon. 06:00:09 * pikhq should probably do that. . . 06:00:13 pikhq: the kernel is the soul of the machine, after all, as the CPU is the heart 06:00:17 (Hanadera is the name of the boys' school in conjunction to the girls' school that contains the Yamayurikai.) 06:00:23 hunh 06:00:39 (The girls' school being called Lilian.) 06:01:04 well, the Handera 330 was the last and greatest of the 68k line of palm-compatibles, and I love mine dearly 06:01:25 Hanadera has hot boys :P 06:01:44 I can't stop laughing after I said that :D 06:02:04 lol 06:02:45 There was a service picture of Kashiwagi (the hottest guy in that series and one of the overall hottest anime guys ever) in boxers and t-shirt after he stepped out of a panda suit. 06:02:48 Monosugoi. 06:03:05 Ok, one of like 5 guys in the series, but I digress. 06:03:23 (3 of whom are almost totally filler.) 06:04:00 Having no experience with this series (for obvious reasons), the first thing that popped into my head was mechazawa from "Cromartie High", which now has ME laughing 06:04:18 Nah. I'm not into Shounen stuff. 06:04:41 Cromartie is an absurdist comedy series 06:04:48 Yeah. I know. 06:05:09 Marimite (the shortened form of the anime's name Maria-sama ga Miteru) is pure shoujo, and has very little action or plot. Mostly character development. 06:05:15 And social subterfuge. 06:05:25 hm 06:07:16 In general, I'm a fan of shows that mix cool sci fi themes with a thoughtful storyline, like Bubblegum crisis Tokyo 2040, The Big O, Lain, Outlaw Star, Ghost in the shell and the like. 06:07:35 Good animation + science fiction = gold in my book. 06:07:51 * pikhq is generally a fan of good science fiction on dead tree. ;) 06:08:51 I've read my fair share of Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, Stephenson and Heinlein- my father taught me well 06:09:13 I was taught by mother and grandmother. 06:09:57 however, animation appeals to my artistic interests, and it's more often that I have two hours to watch a movie than the time to read a book for fun. College doesn't really reduce your free time, but it sure chops it up into smaller pieces 06:10:43 Two hours? That's about enough time to get 1/4 to 1/2 of the way through. . . 06:10:46 I like to spend all day and zip through half a novel, rather than spacing something out over weeks- when I start, I must finish 06:11:19 (feels like it, at least) 06:11:44 When a friend introduced me to the Sandman series, I devoured all 11 volumes in less than a week, and I didn't get a lot else done. :) 06:12:05 My dad hates SF and my mom thinks it's weird gibberish :P 06:12:12 <:/ 06:12:29 The only person resembling me in my family line is my grandfather the ``nutty'' professor. 06:12:48 could either of them appreciate Dune or Ender's Game, at least? 06:12:53 Of course not. 06:13:09 My grandmother's the one who got me into Ender's Game. . . :) 06:13:10 They can't even stand politically correct gay jokes on TV :P 06:13:19 <:( 06:13:44 I also blame her for my introduction to Heinlein. 06:14:01 My mom's to blame for McCaffrey and Asimov. 06:14:15 My father gave me ender's game when I was in middle school (this was shortly after I finished 1984), and it resounded deeply with me. 06:14:43 I discovered Ender's Game in my grandmother's bookshelf. (I believe it was the first paperback printing) 06:15:02 I think it was the first bit of serious sci-fi I read. . . 06:15:27 Dune was one of my first. 06:15:50 before that, mostly Asimov and Bradbury's lighter stuff- short stories and the like 06:16:29 I've only been getting into Asimov's lighter stuff fairly recently. 06:16:37 "There will come soft rains" is still one of my favorite Bradbury stories 06:16:42 And Bradbury? I've really only read Fahrenheit so far. 06:16:52 (I need to find more Bradbury stories. :( 06:16:53 ) 06:17:12 pikhq: "The feeling of power" was bradbury, right? That one is outstanding. 06:17:28 The Feeling of Power is Asimov. 06:17:40 And one of his greatest short stories, IMO. 06:17:56 I think The Last Question is Asimov's best. 06:18:42 pikhq: I'd be tied between "The 10000000 names of god" and "The feeling of power" 06:19:18 please somebody tell me they remember "There will come soft rains". 06:19:33 "Tick-tock, seven o'clock! Time to get up, time to get up!" 06:20:22 * pikhq hasn't read "The 100000000 Names of God" 06:20:30 Oh, god. I remember that one now. . . 06:20:39 It was hidden in one of my English textbooks. 06:20:42 Brilliant. 06:20:54 it's about the monks that have spent centuries writing out the 10 million names of god in books 06:21:11 then, they buy a computer to help speed the job 06:21:14 (I find it odd that some English professors deride science fiction, while publishing it in their textbooks) 06:21:23 lol- indeed 06:21:37 I first read "The Smallest Dragonboy" in one, as well. 06:23:49 (although if you *just* read "The Smallest Dragonboy", it's hard to tell that it's sci-fi, not fantasy) 06:28:26 I prefer Fantasy over SF. 06:29:40 I, obviously, don't. 06:31:45 To me, the difference between fantasy and SciFi is that in science fiction everything has a justification, backstory and explanation, if not explicitly. In fantasy, things are taken as given. Shadow of the Torturer, for example, is set in what appears to be a mideval era (actually later revealed as post apocalyptic), but is most definitely Science Fiction. Dune straddles a very fine line between the two genres 06:34:15 Fantasy tends to stress more upon character development while SF focuses more on plot. 06:34:43 this is also correct 06:35:13 I prefer character development on the whole to plot. 06:35:20 Of course, not always. 06:35:33 man, I wish "Programmer" was as impressive a title in the real world as it is in "The Feeling of Power" 06:36:10 To some, it somehow brings up the idea of a grunt worker rather than someone a bit more. . . Creative. 06:37:28 I think the capital P is what does it. "Programmer", rather than "programmer". 06:37:38 Hmm. 06:38:08 if you want to sound impressive, I like things like a "Program Architect" 06:38:27 which brings with it connotations of meticulousness and care 06:45:17 "Hacker" 06:46:42 the problem with hacker, aside from media misrepresentations, is that it brings with it the idea of ramshackle, barely functioning creations pulled off with barely any tools or time 06:46:57 it's a positive thing, but Hacking is rarely about elegance 06:47:07 RodgerTheGreat: "hacker" implies either fugly creations, or wonderous artistry. 06:47:33 Using it as a title usually entails the artistry of your work. 06:47:40 it's about shrewdness and intuitiveness in problem solving, not clarity and perfection of the end result 06:47:48 hack can describe elegant 06:48:18 I'll concede that, yes- hacking could generally be described as doing a traditionally mundane job in an artful fashion 06:49:28