00:00:23 So...? :D 00:00:30 @ is an input/output channel 00:00:56 ^,>,v,< are directors 00:01:12 anything from any direction hitting it is directed in the direction 00:01:30 (, ), u, n are 1 way objects 00:01:39 if you hit it from the c<--- side 00:01:45 it goes through 00:01:50 but from the ---> c side 00:01:51 it dies 00:01:56 (the burst) 00:02:04 Q is a destructable object 00:02:09 when hit with a pulse 00:02:17 it disappears taking the pulse with it 00:02:47 so the key to my and gate is simply that you destroy the two Qs and the output can go through\ 00:02:53 but if you don't, you won't get anything 00:03:10 each box is instantaneous 00:04:00 if you put a @ inside the box (not in the walls) it will work as a kill button 00:04:14 hitting the kill button causes the output 00:04:28 otherwise the box runs until there is no more to do 00:04:36 (ie, all pulses are dead) 00:04:58 # is a permanent wall 00:05:43 % fires pulses in all directions ^,>,v,< when hit (maybe I wasn't clear) 00:05:48 does my example make sense? 00:06:10 I haven't figured out how to do io yet 00:07:01 or variables :S 00:07:51 why have variables in a language like that? just have a memory cell 00:08:12 well, just the equivalent, I mean 00:09:19 got any idea how to do IO? 00:10:12 umm, input device when hit freezes the sim, gets input, then emits the characters like a memory cell would do 00:10:23 output just eats up the characters from a memory cell/similar and prints it 00:10:35 how would you do a memory cell? 00:10:40 all boxes are instantaneous 00:10:43 take a look at Game of Life memory cells 00:10:46 something along those lines. 00:11:59 I should create a toggle object 00:12:14 like 00:12:45 I could represent it by X/O 00:12:53 and use something else as the switch 00:12:56 W/M maybe 00:12:58 anyway, a memory cell basically just continuously emits bits in the format accepted by gates, etc. 00:13:02 do it how you will 00:13:17 ahh 00:13:40 maybe I should just not have the compressor 00:13:47 and make it more interesting? 00:13:56 @ could then be a trigger 00:14:05 and something else can be kill 00:14:14 K maybe 00:14:31 nono, we'll make Y be the switch and @ will stay as kill 00:14:50 Y will toggle any X's or O's next to it 00:15:11 if something is hit from both sides by an O it will be emitted on both sides 00:17:06 You should use the vi keys for some things. :-) 00:17:16 vi keys? 00:17:21 yulkjhnb 00:17:29 what do they do? 00:17:55 y = NW, u = NE, h = W, j = S, k = N, l = E, b = SW, n = SE 00:18:19 i already used those as directions in a fungeoid 00:18:23 i (C)'d their 2-d use. 00:18:25 :P 00:18:39 I'm only doing 4 directions 00:18:43 no NE,SW, etc 00:18:57 keeps me sane :) 00:19:04 ehird`: what's that fungeoid? 00:19:13 ihope, well it's only on my harddrive 00:19:17 what is the logic in those letters? 00:19:20 * ihope nods 00:19:21 but it's tentatively entitled "Not a Fungeoid" 00:19:21 keys 00:19:25 oklopol, hjkl 00:19:32 put your fingers on it 00:19:39 h and l are at the left/right extremes 00:19:42 j and k are what's left 00:19:49 'Not A Real Fungeoid': NARF 00:19:50 the other keys are around those. 00:19:51 oklopol: y, u, b and n are arranged that way, h and l as well, j and k... not so much, but they're also all close together. 00:19:58 vi was invented before arrow keys ;) 00:20:06 Also, can you think of something better? :-) 00:20:08 pikhq, yes, good. 00:20:27 qwe asd zxc 00:20:31 ...I guess you could use keys that are actually arranged that way. 00:21:02 although, if we were going to use those for directions, I'd think we'd use 00:21:04 WASD 00:21:11 WASD is lame 00:21:15 wadx? 00:21:21 lamer 00:21:23 :D 00:21:28 uberlamer! 00:21:32 err... those are just random letters :| 00:21:35 yubn etc i mean 00:21:38 no they're not. 00:21:47 yuihjkbnm 00:21:50 you ARE on qwerty right 00:22:04 i am, yes 00:22:08 * Figs shall stick to the ><<^n 00:22:09 err 00:22:13 <>V^ 00:22:19 oklopol, then you're blind. =) 00:22:22 hjkl are arranged such that you can put your fingers on them nicely, indeed. 00:22:32 asdf! 00:22:51 yubn are arranged nicely, too, but why it's yubn and not uinm is... a mystery. 00:22:51 actually, I think that 00:22:57 sefd would be better 00:23:04 Figs: I do it with just ^v. 00:23:09 yeah 00:23:10 :P 00:23:15 sedf isn't bad though 00:23:22 (of course, I have instructions changing the dimension being modified. . .) 00:23:33 ehird`: now that i actually checked them all out, it's pretty sane 00:23:39 :P 00:23:43 I am debating 00:23:49 should I write this in C++ or in GML? 00:23:55 GML = game maker language? 00:23:58 yes. :( 00:24:01 ... <_< 00:24:03 :P 00:24:06 ... neither? 00:24:13 then I don't write it :) 00:24:27 do what everyone else does, put it on the wiki until someone else writes it :P 00:24:32 rofl 00:24:42 well, I could write it in GM, and have a gui interface 00:24:45 or 00:24:51 * ehird` twitches 00:24:51 I could write it in C++ and it'd be portable 00:24:57 but command-line only 00:25:00 * ehird` twitches 00:25:15 the program would be limited to the size of the command line, most likely 00:25:20 Or you could write it using C++ and Qt 4, and it'd be portable and GUI. 00:25:29 I don't know Qt4 00:25:34 So learn it 00:25:50 Also, you could write it in ANSI C and have it command-line only but awesome and portable and fast and. 00:26:14 If I make it at all, it'd only be in languages with libraries that I already know 00:26:18 Or you could write it in something odd like Lua 00:26:19 :P 00:26:38 I know! I'll write it Befuge or Brainfuck! 00:26:43 :S 00:26:48 I know neither though :P 00:27:11 but you have to admit, an esolang interpretter written in another esolang would be pretty funny ;) 00:27:20 Brainfuck's actually really nowhere near as hard as it's made out to be. . . 00:27:46 Figs, yes - so funny in that it's been done thousands of times 00:27:55 and then some 00:27:57 :) 00:28:11 good. 00:28:12 You don't know BF? 00:28:14 no 00:28:21 never bothered with it ;0 00:28:32 Figs: The only hard part about Brainfuck is that it doesn't have a sizeable standard library. ;) 00:28:42 It's *almost* like doing C without libc. 00:28:43 pikhq, heh. 00:28:43 You write a interpreter for this then :) 00:28:49 in BF 00:28:51 ^.^ 00:28:51 (well, except that C has better primatives) 00:28:51 c without libc is harder. 00:29:00 ehird`: Not really. 00:29:01 than bf. 00:29:25 well i hear there's something called pebble in which it's much simpler 00:29:31 you should look that up 00:29:38 w00t, someone else whoring my language. :p 00:29:40 heh 00:29:41 :P 00:29:44 :PPP 00:30:13 maybe I can do it in C++ with SDL 00:30:38 :'( 00:30:41 death to guis 00:30:47 There's a thought, except that SDL is *really* primitive. 00:30:54 not that much 00:30:59 for what I'm doing 00:31:01 (just the runner) 00:31:20 all I really need is to be able to put graphics on the screen and set the size of the window.... 00:31:26 and get a couple keystrokes 00:31:40 Somebody should invent a GUI that... is really nice? 00:31:45 yes. 00:31:47 someone should 00:32:05 Tcl. 00:32:10 Err. 00:32:12 Tcl/Tk. 00:32:38 Someone should write a good tutorial on the parts of a GUI 00:32:56 since there are a lot of elements in common useage across different platforms 00:33:14 pack [label .l -text "Hello, world!"];pack [button .b -text "Exit." -command exit] 00:33:21 pack? 00:33:33 * Figs doesn't know Tcl/Tk, obviously :) 00:33:44 well, I've read the tutorial on Tcl a while back... 00:33:46 but eh 00:33:53 that doesn't mean I know it 00:34:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:34:14 pack is the Tk command to add something to a window using the "pack" widget manager. 00:34:27 ok 00:34:44 how do you know where it will show up O.o? 00:34:57 s/widget/geometry/ 00:35:23 "pack" tries to do it automagically; there's two other geometry managers that you can use to specify location. 00:35:43 You can do some amount of that with pack, but there comes a point where you should use something else. 00:35:46 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba! 00:36:46 >----[<+++>--]<.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.>----[<->----]<-. 00:36:54 Maybe programs should just leave out the front end. 00:37:58 what does that do? 00:38:43 Outputs the string you said. 00:39:22 (the PEBBLE that was generated from was: source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba!" : temp1 temp2) 00:39:48 :) 00:39:51 cool 00:41:33 (PEBBLE code, BTW, is technically 100% valid Tcl code, syntactically) 00:44:22 pikhq: stop that, i'm reading physics and you are forcing me to learn pebble. 00:44:57 oklopol: Stop reading physics, then. :p 00:45:04 the awesome is tickling my brain in a funny way 00:45:28 pikhq: i can't ! 00:45:46 anyone got a song to sing the alphabet backwards? 00:45:57 oklopol: Then come back just as soon as you're done. 00:46:02 the same one? 00:47:07 so far I have 00:47:30 Z! Y! X! WVUT 00:47:38 Sr QPO 00:48:07 Figs: record us you singing it, that's not very clear. 00:48:08 but the nm ... screws me up 00:48:36 well, you can also tell me the notes 00:48:44 but that's a rare talent :| 00:49:31 oklopol: You're not reading physics now, are you. 00:49:31 (quarter) Middle C, G G, (16) F E, (8) D [bar] E F (dotted quarter) E 00:49:43 that's ZYXWVUT 00:49:53 play at around 120 00:49:55 Now, let me fill you in on the sheer awesomeness of PEBBLE some more. 00:50:16 The PEBBLE parser *is* the Tcl parser; I just start up a slave interp, remove Tcl commands, and bind in PEBBLE ones. 00:50:44 I thought about 00:50:51 Figs: bar? 00:50:54 pause? 00:50:56 no 00:50:58 ah 00:50:58 just bar 00:50:58 bar 00:51:06 so you can check you're on track 00:51:15 Figs: Use GNU Lilypad notation or something. 00:51:31 8th rest, (8) high C, G [bar] A A (dot Q) G 00:51:44 well when I get a full thing, I'll just upload the midi 00:52:11 zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba 00:52:15 (for reference) 00:52:25 NMLKJ is the next bit 00:52:32 maybe I can make that rising 00:52:34 Like I said: use GNU Lilypad notation. 00:52:48 That way, one can generate sheet music that I can read. ;) 00:52:48 dot q? 00:52:51 lilypad? 00:52:56 that's dotted quarter 00:53:01 ag 00:53:08 ag? 00:53:17 I don't know lilypad's notation 00:53:49 ag? 00:53:50 err 00:53:53 ok :) 00:53:58 Blargh. Wrong name, anyways. 00:53:59 a bit of a typo there... 00:54:26 Figs: you've done music? 00:54:58 yeah 00:55:06 I know music 00:55:11 well, i can't tell from that little whether that was just a fluke of a random generator, but sounds promising sofar :P 00:55:19 rofl 00:55:35 i've made generators with a bit of brain for that 00:55:49 Figs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_LilyPond 00:55:53 you sometimes get pretty playable riffs 00:55:54 I know what it is 00:55:57 I just don't know it pikhq 00:56:39 what level is 4? 00:56:48 C4 = Middle C? 00:56:55 pikhq: you finnish? 00:56:58 my program uses C5 = middle, but some people use different 00:57:03 oklopol: American. 00:57:09 I'm Figs! 00:57:11 ah 00:57:15 Why do you ask? 00:57:27 This file uses Finnish note names (for example, where 00:57:28 "" 00:57:47 i'm pretty sure they aren't officially "Finnish note names" 00:58:23 I could screw you all up by saying quavers and quarter notes alternatively... and sometimes using DO RE ME... and other times A B C :) 00:58:47 I can't really read music without typeset sheet music. 00:58:53 actually it's quaver -> 8th 00:58:55 i've never liked anything about the note systems 00:58:59 (that being what I usually read from) 00:59:01 but meh 00:59:20 Figs: i'm pretty sure i've done more with music than you if that was a brag :) 00:59:32 no that wasn't a brag, that was humor :) 00:59:58 since you're talking about where people are and note names 01:00:01 (mine was too) 01:00:18 oh. So you just made me kill my joke for nothing ;( 01:00:21 (but only in my head, prolly, because i don't really see the gag) 01:00:22 spoilsport :P 01:00:39 they don't say "quaver" in the US 01:00:57 actually i'm pretty sure mine wasn't a joke, but i'm also sure i meant to make it one :P 01:01:01 (not anywhere I've been, actually) 01:01:12 ok oklopol 01:01:15 i don't know the music vocabulary 01:01:24 just that it sucks in all ways possible 01:01:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaver 01:02:08 yeah, you said it somewhere already 01:02:18 ??? 01:02:22 said what? 01:02:30 err 01:02:34 what it is :) 01:02:43 I just misread "mensural notation" very badly >.< 01:03:31 menstrual 01:03:46 ... yeah :P 01:03:51 but that's not what it is 01:03:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensural_notation 01:04:14 i should make a notation system that uses an unlambdaish syntax 01:04:23 because today i realized it's the syntax of gods 01:04:26 heheh :P 01:04:33 have fun :) 01:04:48 okay, about 50 words read about physics 01:04:56 particle. 01:05:00 now you have 51 01:05:09 * Figs runs around like a rabid monkey 01:05:37 my rhythms just don't sound good for this song. 01:05:49 hmm 01:06:58 hmm, that notation looks like something i've been working on 01:07:27 i've thought about making a *good* notation system and translating a number of pieces on it 01:07:53 it would be cool to have a database where you could for example search for the name of the piece just by remembering one of it's riffs 01:08:10 something very simple to do, and something no one seems to have done yet 01:08:36 go for it 01:08:51 OkloMusica! 01:08:55 (it's a simple comparison because you don't have the same problem with strings that "asdfasdfasdf" and "basdfasdfasdf" should be considered almost the same) 01:09:03 *as with strings 01:09:11 it's a much less test 01:09:14 ... 01:09:19 *less complicated 01:09:25 O.o 01:09:34 actually, you should be considering the intervals 01:09:42 huh? 01:09:53 it's just o(12n) to check every key 01:10:11 and everything would naturally be represented without key information even present 01:10:21 since that is in no way crucial to the song 01:11:02 (okay, i admit there was one composed whose pieces actually sound worse played in the wrong key even if you don't have an absolute note ear or whatever it's called) 01:11:30 (bach, uuh <3) 01:13:17 i remember analysing one of his pieces for hours and not finding a single note that could be changed 01:13:32 :P 01:13:48 * oklopol fanboys bach a bit :| 01:13:50 did you search for pairs of notes? :P 01:14:13 pairs of notes? 01:14:16 sure 01:14:30 what do you mean 01:14:40 well, if you're just looking at one note at a time 01:14:50 and he's got a chord going on 01:15:22 what about shifting a section? :P 01:15:33 i know every note by heart, and yes, i did look at how the arpeggios are laid out 01:15:42 in relation to the other hand 01:16:00 which piece is it? :P 01:16:13 well, shifting the whole piece is a nop 01:16:27 and other shifts cannot be done with still keeping it bach 01:16:48 ... 01:16:49 bach and other classic stuff always has a clear transition 01:17:02 i should create one to make a shift possible 01:17:10 ? 01:17:28 which would change the whole image, since the piece is very dense in structure 01:17:35 '?'? 01:17:48 you've totally lost me :) 01:17:58 sorry, i use my own words :< 01:18:12 * Figs hands you some chinese words to see if they work better 01:18:15 :P 01:18:18 jk jk 01:18:45 i've never seen any text about analysing music 01:18:52 i've never even heard snyone do that except me 01:18:55 *anyone 01:19:23 most musicians i know (and i know >30) would find it somehow bad to start analysing music at all 01:19:26 * Figs points to music theory 01:19:44 i don't know that, if you have a book of some sort, i'd like to read :) 01:19:46 err 01:19:46 there's a whole disciple devoted to analyzing music ;) 01:19:56 Chord structure, etc 01:20:00 i know the basics, but it seems it stops there 01:20:01 progressions... 01:20:04 yes, i know those 01:20:25 I've taken an introductory music course- classical music in general follows a number of basic forms. It's not unlike the structure of poetry 01:20:52 * Figs points to books on the structure of fugues 01:20:55 if you know anything mathematical written about music, i'd like to see 01:20:59 i've never seen anything 01:21:29 i mean, of course, after the basics, which everyone knows 01:21:35 You should talk to my friend Eric. 01:21:47 hm. I wonder how well high-order markov chains would deal with music. 01:21:55 what about something like this? 01:21:55 http://www.teoria.com/articulos/analysis/BWV846/index.htm 01:22:04 He's a musician, but is also quite intelligent mathematically, and can casually talk about harmonics, sound-wave interference, etc, etc. 01:22:16 hmm, mathematical, huh? 01:24:26 Figs: that's not very low-level 01:24:39 just looking for repetition :| 01:25:33 GregorR-L: all i can say is i wish my musician friends were like that :) 01:26:19 I don't know what you mean for sure then 01:27:00 Figs: perhaps i'll show you some day. 01:27:14 when my language is ready 01:27:19 :) 01:27:50 what do you mean by low-level though? 01:28:31 oklopol: have you written anything in terms of an oklotalk spec? 01:29:11 yes, i wrote a partial one for parsing 01:29:25 I'd be interested in seeing it. 01:29:45 and also 2 parsers, but it's just pretty fucking complex to get working :| 01:29:47 hmm 01:29:48 weait 01:30:40 http://vjn.fi/mb/index.php?p=oklotalkspec 01:30:50 i made this for ihope, it's a quick hack, mostly 01:30:52 * Figs prods okolopol 01:31:15 i have a more complete one, 20 pages or smth, but it's outdated partly, i'm not gonna upload it :) 01:31:30 * oklopol enjoys the prod and waits for more 01:31:33 What do you mean by .low-level? 01:31:43 oh 01:31:48 i didn't see that sorry 01:31:50 hmm 01:32:03 the actual notes aren't actually considered at all 01:32:25 hm. I guess it's rather difficult to get a sense of the language from just parsing rules 01:32:57 C ->> i@ |\ \\eq >>V 4! My new language! there's only one legal sentance in it, and that's it. :) 01:32:57 RodgerTheGreat: everything is everything (as opposed to everything is and object), everything is as dense as possible 01:33:07 *an object 01:33:16 hunh 01:33:20 those were my goals in designing it 01:33:31 have I shown you my language, Bullet? 01:33:41 yeah, i remember looking at it 01:33:54 it was quite pretty 01:34:24 do [a - b] to [5, 2] into [result] or something 01:34:45 I think I'll do some work on my specs this weekend, and maybe start hammering out some BNF 01:34:55 that's somewhat accurate 01:36:49 yay i have a bed now!! 01:37:04 kewl. 01:37:10 * Figs hands bsmntbombdood some sheets 01:37:19 already had some of those 01:37:28 * Figs snatches them back then. 01:37:40 * bsmntbombdood already rubbed his naked body on them 01:37:49 * Figs lights them on fire then gives them back. 01:38:05 lol 01:38:09 :P 01:38:17 perverts 01:38:39 * bsmntbombdood uses the fire to cook his dinner 01:38:56 O.o 01:39:02 excuse-moi! 01:39:13 ha ha, i win 01:39:24 you lost a pair of sheets and i got a nice warm dinner! 01:39:26 depends on what you're eating for dinner 01:39:38 * Figs hands bsmntbombdood some shoe-leather 01:40:08 * bsmntbombdood respecfully declines 01:40:29 * Figs grabs the fire. 01:40:58 * Figs indicates the shoe-leather has a magic charm in it 01:41:12 * Figs , unhurt by the flames begins to run off. 01:41:20 Bwhaha. :) 01:41:22 ... 01:41:35 I'll bet eating shoe leather would be a reaaaaaally bad idea for me X-D 01:41:48 why? 01:42:08 i'll share my dinner with you 01:42:18 I'm allergic to a chemical used to tan most leather. I only know the skin reaction :P 01:42:28 ah 01:42:51 * Figs is bored. 01:43:19 you could have done naughty things with my bodily juices, but you decided to burn them 01:43:42 O_o 01:44:21 we should get lisppaste in here 01:44:57 * Figs takes the now burned sheets and casts a spell on it that cause the spirits of the body-juices to transform into fluid ninjas! "Attack!" cries Figs into the night, directing his gremlins to bsmntbombdood. 01:45:09 * Figs waits for the one-up wtfer 01:45:28 dude, bodily juices don't have souls 01:45:52 I said spirits! :) I'm stealing their hidden stash of alcohol. 01:46:21 * Figs wonders if he's reached WTF status yet... :S 01:47:35 did I simultaneously get ignored by the entire channel for wtf-ness? :( 01:48:24 * Figs gets bored and calls off the weird army. 01:48:38 `ello out there?! 01:48:52 * GregorR-L eats Figs. 01:48:55 Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... Figs. 01:48:59 o.O 01:49:06 An Algorithm for Optimal Lambda Calculus Reduction!?!?!!!?! 01:49:50 http://fortran.com/ 01:49:59 this site looks like it hasn't been changed since the 90s 01:50:07 What a shock. 01:50:16 :P 01:50:47 someone should write an imperative->functional compiler 01:51:13 sounds like one of the weird ideas I'd had for my language 01:51:23 except that it was imperative -> functional -> imperative 01:51:41 yes. I know how useful that sounds. 01:53:12 Every functional language compiler and/or interpreter does functional -> imperative. 01:53:34 of course, that's why i suggested imperative->functional 01:53:51 well 01:53:55 I wasn't talking about like 01:53:59 C -> Haskell -> C 01:54:16 so imperative languages can target super efficient lambda machines 01:54:16 I meant internally represented in the intermediate stage as a functional program 01:55:09 I don't know, maybe I'm mistaken, but the whole thing is a lot like monads, isn't it? 01:55:24 imperative in functional by being sequential 02:08:31 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 02:15:11 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to Kris. 02:16:45 -!- Kris has changed nick to GregorR-L. 02:22:13 I found a Fortran book at Borders. 02:22:29 There are more Lisp books than there are Fortran books :) 02:23:40 In other news, there are more C books than ALGOL books. :p 02:23:56 haha, dead trees 02:24:13 Actually, one language outdoes even Java books. 02:24:25 Guess :) 02:24:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to bsmntgoat. 02:25:25 C#? 02:25:27 (ugh) 02:25:33 Nope. 02:25:38 C 02:25:42 Of course not. 02:25:52 Brainfuck! 02:26:00 oh, C++ 02:26:16 C has only 7 books. Two copies of the same algorithm book, one more book on algorithms, one book on general C, and The C Programming Language. 02:26:19 And some more I forgot. 02:26:20 -!- bsmntgoat has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 02:26:21 No, not C++. 02:26:31 then what 02:26:31 It's almost extinct too, but less so than C. 02:26:34 UML. 02:26:41 uml!?! 02:26:45 Yeah :( 02:27:01 This is what happens when you take away the REPL/interactive environment. 02:27:21 sure, java boy 02:27:39 UML makes baby Jesus cry; everytime you code in it, God kills a kitten, and it watches child porn. 02:27:59 bsmntbombdood: I'm an engineer, not a weenie ;) 02:28:00 o.o 02:28:05 Sukoshi is *firmly* a Lisp girl, anyways. 02:28:13 no, she's a java boy 02:28:14 (and a Haskeller) 02:28:15 sukoshi is a girl? 02:28:18 Yeah. 02:28:23 Lisp and Smalltalk are my favorites. 02:28:33 whatever you say, java boy 02:28:34 It's just that I like doing practical things. 02:28:38 * Figs is confused :P 02:28:44 as you should be. 02:29:09 Sukoshi: Java only makes baby Jesus cry. 02:29:11 * Figs doesn't like Java much.... at least not right now. 02:29:20 pikhq: Yeah :P 02:29:20 * pikhq is anti-Java 02:29:32 I think Java's nice. Not innovative, but nice. 02:29:39 pikhq: BASIC makes baby Djikstra cry. 02:29:41 I like languages that encourage me to hack. 02:29:53 Does assembly make Djikstra cry too? 02:29:53 it's not nice...at all 02:29:54 I like languages that work properly. 02:29:55 RodgerTheGreat: Not true. BASIC only makes adults cry. 02:30:15 jmp, jmp, jmp! jne! 02:30:23 BF for the win :| 02:30:26 Figs: Probably do. 02:30:33 there's nothing wrong with goto 02:30:40 PEBBLE for the total victory. 02:30:46 * RodgerTheGreat high-fives bsmntbombdood 02:30:49 Djikstra was the guy who wrote 'Goto considered harmful' though, wasn't he? :P 02:30:51 bsmntbombdood: Goto Considered Harmful, thanks. 02:30:55 Figs: yes 02:30:59 Figs: Sure as hell was. 02:31:02 Figs: yes. I hate the imbecile. 02:31:10 pikhq: only if you're a bad programmer 02:31:14 RodgerTheGreat: You. . . LIKE Goto?!? 02:31:20 GOTO STFU_DJIKSTRA_RULES 02:31:28 <.< 02:31:31 Goto is .... 02:31:37 bsmntbombdood: If you're a good programmer, then you don't know the meaning of the word "Goto". :p 02:31:37 Useful in a few spare situations. 02:31:43 we could be programming in spaghetti :) 02:31:45 BASIC is my favorite language, actually. I consider myself a Ninja. 02:31:45 pikhq, absolutely not 02:32:00 Where it's useful, it's very useful. Where it's not ... it's annoying and spaghetting-inducing. 02:32:03 or linguine! 02:32:06 RodgerTheGreat: I consider you someone who brings a knife to a gunfight. 02:32:24 Sukoshi: the same is true with any tool 02:32:28 A LISPer is somebody who brings a knife to a gunfight. 02:32:29 And wins. 02:32:33 I doubt you've ever leveraged the language like I have, pikhq 02:32:58 Heh Gregor. 02:32:58 GregorR-L: LISPers are fucking hardcore 02:33:11 us lispers aren't :( 02:33:22 Once you start injecting inline assembly and heavily self-modifying, it transcends being a "beginner's language". 02:33:39 He's running while being mowed down by a machine gun, then stabs the fuck out of the gunner, breathes hard a few times and screams dramatically. He's fine. 02:33:53 [from Story of a Lisper] 02:34:15 no lisper could do that 02:34:18 only a LISPer 02:34:27 Erm, yeah, LISPer :P 02:34:34 WHISPER! 02:34:36 :) 02:34:56 ... yeah, that was irrelevant. :) 02:35:47 so is your mother 02:35:56 BASIC is not the language I use most commonly, but it is my oldest weapon, and I treat it with tremendous respect. I'm not one to callously discard the tools I once cherished. 02:35:57 i've read another page of physics. 02:36:16 O_O 02:36:19 wow 02:36:29 playing the beep 60 times a second sounds awful 02:37:11 once again i gotta advertise 02:37:11 http://www.vjn.fi/s/beepiano.py 02:37:23 python? 02:37:56 * Figs is writing that befunge-like system 02:37:57 yeah 02:38:00 in GM 02:38:04 Visual Pulse 02:38:08 whatever you want to call it 02:40:26 also, http://vjn.fi/s/black.mp3 02:40:34 though i'm not sure that's worth hearing :DF 02:40:36 *:D 02:41:14 O_o 02:41:18 is that you typing the song? 02:41:22 yeah 02:41:28 played with my kb 02:41:33 cool 02:41:41 that was like a 5 hour train 02:41:42 :D 02:41:47 :P 02:41:55 well, i also though a lot about fingering and such 02:41:59 would it look like qweriqpdsfohaerpfjsfdgijqrotiqpwrejg if you typed it? 02:42:08 most likely 02:42:19 hmm 02:42:24 well, i know it by heart, so 02:42:31 :) 02:42:36 fnyngntnfnyngntnfunuyugutunuyugucygytyfycygytgyufn yngntnfnynygntnf 02:42:37 daårfuihg 02:42:42 i typoed at the end 02:42:45 ah 02:42:53 you know the song? 02:43:12 i guess you wouldn't know finnish heavy metal from 15 years ago 02:43:20 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:43:23 it sounds sort of familiar, but no 02:43:28 stratovarius - black diamond is you wanna hear the original :D 02:43:36 ok 02:43:42 plays it with harpsichord 02:44:02 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 02:44:02 (and it's a full piece, mine is just a few riffs from it) 02:44:21 because it's pretty hard playing with the keyboard, believe me 02:44:59 oklopol: not half bad 02:45:14 and they keyboard noises make it sound hilarius 02:45:19 heh 02:45:20 *hilarious 02:45:29 you should've seen me record it 02:45:30 :P 02:45:44 I'm sure it would've been entertaining 02:45:52 crouching naked my face 5 inches from the screen 02:45:53 well 02:46:00 hm 02:46:00 i guess you'd not enjoy the nakedness 02:46:08 inches? 02:46:10 wtf :\ 02:46:16 cents 02:46:22 that's somewhat more disturbing than my mental image. :S 02:46:56 I don't generally compute while nude 02:47:23 O_o 02:47:31 i don't generally use clothes... 02:47:36 there's an exception to every rule 02:47:42 hahah :P 02:47:52 but that has more to do with my having a roommate than any deepseated objection to it, I guess 02:47:52 [18:46:51] oklopol: i don't generally use clothes... <-- can I quote you on that? 02:47:56 i do when i go out, but it's redundant in the summer 02:47:59 Figs: sure :P 02:48:22 I made a simple pulsator in with my program, but it isn't working well :( 02:48:28 Figs: I want a T-shirt with that statement on it 02:48:42 just for the perfect amount of irony 02:48:42 "[18:46:51] oklopol: i don't generally use clothes..." on it? 02:48:48 something like that 02:48:50 heh, i have a commodore 64 02:48:54 a t-shirt saying "i don't generally use clothes"? 02:48:59 :P 02:49:00 who else thinks it'd be awesome to use irc on that? 02:49:03 I wish I had a commodore 64. :'( 02:49:10 irc on Com64? 02:49:15 ConTiki for the win! 02:49:16 or you mean irc in the nude? 02:49:20 i have a commodore 64 02:49:25 never used it before 02:49:26 err, in the c64 02:49:29 maybe he meant irc in the nude on a c64 02:49:34 :P 02:49:43 which honestly sounds pretty awesome 02:49:49 heh :) 02:49:55 that'd be the case, most likely. 02:49:59 just don't turn on any webcams :) 02:50:04 which is STRIKING PROOF that I am badly in need of a life 02:50:19 Figs: webcams are not a danger whilst on a C64 02:50:32 it might be hard to get ethernetish output from the game controller ports :P 02:50:33 no, but if you're in the nude on a C64 and someone sees your web-cam... 02:50:45 (connected to your other machine...) 02:50:48 it'd be more an engineering job than a coding job 02:50:51 i'm nude underneath my clothes 02:50:57 oklopol: you seriously need to get an ethernet interface for that baby and install contiki, or give the commie to me an I WILL 02:51:04 *and 02:51:22 ethernet interfaces for the C64 are readily available online 02:51:26 RodgerTheGreat: if you actually know how one could do that, i'm gonna make it 02:51:48 I dunno how to *make* one myself, but I could find somewhere you could buy one 02:51:52 i can program the raw output for internet connexxion, but i can't actually get the wires to work 02:52:01 ah 02:52:09 i could just buy one, never occurred to me :D 02:52:11 hmm 02:52:28 and Contiki is a multitasking OS for the C64 (complete with GUI) that provides things like a web browser and so on 02:52:32 still easy to get stuff for c64 you say? 02:52:37 :O 02:52:37 oh 02:52:39 "easy" ish 02:52:47 i hoped i'd have to make that myself :< 02:52:54 I've made ethernet cables before :) 02:53:01 we had to do it in tech class 02:53:02 behold! /www.sics.se/contiki/about-contiki.html 02:53:03 Figs: me too, actually 02:53:10 contiki is frickin' sweet, man 02:53:22 and I did the wiring for a wall socket in that class once 02:53:27 you can put 4 twisted pairs together?!?! cool, dude! 02:53:31 but I don't know how to do the rest of it for the other thing 02:53:37 plus you can always roll your own distro- the default one still has ~14k or so for additional user apps 02:53:43 twisted pair? 02:53:58 oh 02:53:58 there's a telnet client, but you could still code an IRC client for it 02:53:58 :P 02:54:14 or just use telnet 02:54:19 yeah 02:54:30 yeah, a raw connection works for irc 02:54:31 but I find that unenjoyable usually 02:54:36 RodgerTheGreat: well, making a client would be pretty sweet as well :) 02:54:49 a friend of mine uses IRC-over-telnet quite frequently 02:54:58 oklopol: that's the spirit! 02:55:05 I used to until I realized I was wasting my time. :) 02:55:18 it's useful for debugging bots and things, imo 02:55:56 i'd make a graphical client of course. 02:55:59 one with scripts 02:56:00 ! 02:56:05 :) 02:56:08 (and a bit of sex) 02:56:08 send me a copy? 02:56:12 yes yes. 02:56:15 not of the sex. 02:56:17 a bit of sex! 02:56:17 just the client :) 02:56:20 but i have to get the machine first 02:56:21 send me the sex then 02:56:28 i shall 02:56:53 bsmnt, you want to see oklopol sex0rz with the machine? O.o 02:57:00 definately 02:57:20 it'd only be like the coolest thing in the world to make an irc client on that 02:57:48 i'm gonna go get it now, our sommerhome is just like 10 miles from here 02:57:49 err 02:57:55 why do i use miles and inches 02:57:57 :< 02:58:05 you've been corrupted :) 02:58:12 perhaps 02:58:14 SI ftw 02:58:15 ! 02:58:23 Imperial measurement for the win 02:58:32 Gnark measurement for the win! 02:58:49 One bloot is equal 6.257 blarks. 02:58:50 we should just measure in plancks 02:58:54 :) 02:59:01 walk the planck! 02:59:22 RodgerTheGreat: I recommend porting Gregor's RawIRC. ;) 02:59:34 i've never seen a guy have sex with a computer, so i'd actually *want* to see it. 02:59:43 everything must be seen 02:59:49 o_o 02:59:51 http://www.jac64.com/demos-amp-music/play-62.html <- c64 emulator + contiki 03:00:12 I've never seen a man have sex with a donkey either, but that doesn't mean I want to watch. 03:00:32 RodgerTheGreat: What I truly want to try is that C64 UNIX clone. 03:00:51 Figs: i'm not touching that, but you heard my general rule. 03:00:51 Lunix? 03:01:12 oklokok == oklopol? 03:01:34 err... yes. 03:01:48 i randomly change computer 03:01:52 ... ok 03:01:52 how does your naming convention work? 03:02:12 oklopol, oklokok, oklofok, ^__^ and minimall are the ones i usually use 03:02:22 minimall when i'm at a friend's house 03:02:31 oklokok and oklofok are just for fun. 03:02:35 ok 03:02:37 O.o 03:02:40 oklopol has a long history 03:02:51 I can't stop listening to your typing song 03:02:57 in spite of the weird story behind it 03:03:12 heh 03:03:36 hmm... i guess i'll also advertize my bands, then. 03:03:38 oklokok: figure out some way to produce a (non-nekkid, please) video of yourself playing that song 03:04:00 it will provide entertainment for many of us here 03:04:06 http://www.mikseri.net/artists/?id=62623 03:04:11 my current project 03:04:13 I think I'm not the only one here that would enjoy seeing one 03:04:14 safe? 03:04:21 http://www.mikseri.net/artists/?id=44508 03:04:24 stuff from the past 03:04:39 RodgerTheGreat: i can do that if i find a webcam somewhere 03:04:44 and my clothes 03:04:47 :P 03:04:52 did I share the program that plays mario/zelda/Fur Elise? 03:04:55 my pants seem to be on the floor. 03:05:01 Figs: don't think so 03:05:08 ok 03:05:11 let me see if I can find it 03:05:14 it was a real wtf piece 03:05:18 i remember doing that on basic 03:05:25 a long time ago 03:06:01 i mean, composing stuff and making it play existing malodies 03:06:03 *melodies 03:06:04 found it 03:06:16 I put in the three songs by hand 03:06:18 but you can oly get so far with one note at the time 03:06:25 cool 03:06:30 I still have the source I think 03:06:33 ah ha! 03:06:34 found it 03:07:53 cool 03:07:58 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GUWUXEBC 03:08:11 * oklokok used to play fur elise on the keyboards 03:08:17 ...err piano 03:08:44 it's all done with the windows 'beep' command :) 03:08:45 omg russian bitches just for me 03:08:46 ! 03:08:50 ??? 03:09:07 ok, figured out how that works 03:09:17 the download-button was well hidden 03:09:21 lol 03:09:25 Figs: the advertises. 03:09:30 I don't see ads 03:09:42 * Figs walks around with ad-block on while online 03:09:53 i like the adds 03:10:01 nothing wrong with a nekkid chick :P 03:10:04 rofl 03:10:04 *ads 03:10:14 *shrug* 03:12:41 Figs: one error 03:12:44 ? 03:12:45 i think 03:12:49 in Fur Elise? 03:12:55 i wasn't listening that carefully though, i'll check 03:12:57 Zelda 03:12:59 oh 03:13:04 might be 03:13:05 :P 03:13:11 remember, I put it all in by hand 03:13:18 so I wouldn't be surprised 03:13:33 it was too loud (5 am, block of flats), so i had to put the volume down, which took me about 3 min :P 03:13:44 hmm, how does beep work? 03:13:58 like, Beep(delay, freq) 03:14:34 double note(int a){return 440*2^(a/12.0)} anyway 03:14:41 and you'll get the frequency 03:14:49 though i guess that's obvious and you did that 03:15:01 hmm, what was i doing now... 03:15:06 oh yeah, listen it again 03:15:30 okay, another error 03:15:35 just hard to tell where it is 03:15:44 can you put in numbers for each note played? 03:15:50 or do you have the source? 03:15:59 I'm looking for my source 03:16:07 I've found one copy, but it seems old 03:16:26 I know there's an error about 'clear' 03:16:47 clear? 03:16:50 I had a program called batch on my old machine called 'clear' that did 'cls' 03:16:53 yeah 03:16:59 after you listen to a song all the way through 03:17:04 it will give you an error about no clear 03:17:06 most likely 03:17:12 unless you have a clear cmd on your computer 03:17:27 you have 2 errors, but that's because of CV 03:17:30 CV? 03:17:37 copy/pasterz 03:17:44 oh? :P 03:17:48 i always use cv and no one gets it :) 03:17:54 no, I get it 03:17:58 I just didn't think of it 03:18:00 mario also has errors :) 03:18:07 a lot more actually 03:18:07 Figs: "clear" should be valid on any UNIX. . . But *why* are you doing system("clear"); ? 03:18:13 but it's a damn complex rhythm 03:18:22 pikhq: I wrote it on windows 03:18:41 I was doing it to clear the screen for the menu 03:18:47 Then obviously you should run it in Cygwin. 03:18:51 ... 03:18:54 I wrote it for windows :) 03:18:58 and I made a typo 03:19:05 clear instead of cls 03:19:19 And Cygwin is a Windows library and set of programs. 03:19:35 . . . Fine, so it's a complete POSIX environment in userspace. . . 03:19:48 I know what cygwin is 03:19:52 Mmmm. 03:19:55 I used to have it on my old computer 03:20:10 as well as a set of custom batches and programs pointed to by my path 03:20:20 I used to use it when I had to run Windows on a regular basis. 03:20:30 I put cygwin's bin in my path 03:20:35 so I could do ls, grep, etc from cmd 03:20:36 Figs: did you have the score with you when writing fur elise? 03:20:40 yes 03:20:46 good 03:20:57 I don't have perfect pitch :( 03:21:04 you don't need that for it. 03:21:15 perfect pitch is only needed for the first note 03:21:19 well, I didn't have a copy of the song either :P 03:21:27 and 03:21:32 I suck at transcribing by ear :) 03:21:33 anyone can deduce any note given the frequency of another note 03:21:55 that's not strictly true 03:21:55 i mean, theoretically even without a perfect pitch 03:22:07 Figs: anyone can learn that, i mean 03:22:14 no, there are people who can't :) 03:22:22 * Figs points out the deaf people and babies. 03:22:28 not to mention the dead ;) 03:22:37 guess so, but perfect pitch is like language, you cannot learn it thoroughly unless you learn it when young 03:22:44 that is what i mean 03:22:46 *meant 03:23:33 i've used hundreds of hours trying to get me one, but i still rarely know a note unless i hear hZ 440 first to scale with 03:23:51 (or some other known frequency) 03:24:11 Figs: fur elise was perfect 03:24:29 congrats 03:24:34 thanks :) 03:24:40 can you add note numbers so i can fix the first pieces? 03:24:50 if I can find the code 03:25:06 actually, i'd rather do it straight from the code 03:25:16 well 03:25:21 guess i'd still need the numbers 03:25:44 i can't exactly play a Beep(delay, freq) in my head :P 03:25:52 actually, it's worse than that 03:25:55 oh 03:25:58 cool 03:26:18 elise.tone(e,n16); 03:26:30 ah 03:26:34 that's much better 03:26:42 I have it all wrapped as calls like that 03:26:51 i could prolly correct it straight from the source then 03:27:21 the other code going on looks like this 03:27:21 http://rafb.net/p/EqUubc31.html 03:27:31 * RodgerTheGreat threw a ShowerCompletedSuccessfullyException() at line 117271941. 03:27:40 :) 03:27:55 it's exceptional for you to successfully complete a shower? :S 03:27:56 why the switch, why not one calculation? :) 03:28:06 I had some reason when I wrote it 03:28:10 but I have no idea now :P 03:28:21 i guess ab==gs? 03:28:32 Figs: I'm getting in the mood for designing TER, an esolang I thought of the other day 03:28:35 you can use the enum then... but hardly worth the trouble :P 03:28:37 a flat == g sharp 03:29:13 * oklokok hasn't showered that much during the last few weeks 03:29:32 I haven't showered in about a week 03:29:33 Figs: i know what they are 03:29:39 I shower daily. 03:29:42 i just thought they might be the reason for the switch 03:29:54 I don't remember why I did it that way :P 03:29:54 Figs: good, i though i was the only filthy nerd here 03:29:55 but, in TER, exceptions do everything. 03:30:03 I'm not usually so filthy 03:30:06 Figs: that's the only possible reason imo :\ 03:30:08 but I've been lazy 03:30:17 maybe it was 03:30:26 I wrote this months ago 03:30:27 Figs: gimme source gimme source :)) 03:30:35 I only have the source for fur elise 03:30:39 I can't find the others :( 03:30:50 darn 03:30:57 that's the only one i can't enhance 03:31:05 http://rafb.net/p/bOkKql71.html 03:31:11 here's what the main looks like for this old version 03:31:45 http://rafb.net/p/nwq3JH77.html 03:31:50 and the fur elise stuff 03:33:14 I didn't say it was _good_ code though 03:33:39 yes, a goto! 03:33:42 my god :| 03:34:27 i'm not gonna read that knowing it's correct :) 03:34:31 i read the first part though 03:34:52 you've been a bit more creative there than i could deduce from the exe 03:34:59 :P 03:35:13 (i can't hear the low notes that well because the sound is almost off) 03:36:29 try to find the rest and i'll fix, that's a pretty straightforward notation 03:36:46 hmm... wonder if i should actually do something... 03:36:47 I'm still looking 03:37:03 perhaps... physics? xD 03:38:15 its somewhere archived in my gigabytes of old crap :) 03:39:05 oh crap 03:39:08 I bet I know where it is 03:39:52 do tell 03:40:14 oh, no it's not :( 03:40:25 where the fuck did i put it/!!?!!?! 03:40:37 * oklokok recommends a "search" 03:40:47 yeah, but I don't know what I'm searching for :P 03:40:57 .tone( 03:41:36 that will take forever on my computer :) 03:41:58 on mine too 03:42:06 damn finite speeds. 03:42:25 ohh! 03:42:29 I'll look by size 03:42:35 the size of those files will be HUGE 03:42:39 compared to my regular source 03:44:28 no luck yet 03:44:30 just the two old files 03:45:19 i'm pretty sure .tone( + only .cpp files would've taken long 03:45:24 *wouldn't've 03:45:31 I'm running it right now :P 03:45:44 still... 03:45:45 :P 03:45:47 (just a quick remark) 03:45:59 oklokok: that's what I'm doing ;p 03:46:13 ah okay 03:46:16 just size restrictions should speed it up a bit 03:46:59 unfortunately, I have my entire installation of boost in this part of my drive.. 03:47:07 heh :P 03:47:11 so :P 03:47:29 (in oklotalk it'd be trivial to make a full search and skip certain folders) 03:47:37 :) 03:47:44 that would be ncie :) 03:47:46 (because oklotalk is teh stuff) 03:47:49 nice* even 03:47:54 sh00ts :) 03:48:10 can you describe file formats in oklotalk so that you can serialize easily? 03:48:45 serialization will be automatic, yes 03:49:10 no success! >.< 03:49:14 :| 03:49:15 search failed 03:49:39 I guess I've lost the source then :S 03:49:43 fuck :( 03:50:03 also, you can make a list-regex for the format and auto-format it by that 03:50:18 (to be able to use existing formats that is) 03:50:30 can you setup relationals? 03:50:37 you lost me there. 03:50:47 x = p >> q 03:50:56 err 03:50:59 what's that? :) 03:51:05 x is p followed by q 03:51:16 in what sence? 03:51:19 that's how I do regex in C++ 03:51:23 my library does that 03:51:25 but 03:51:30 it has to construct objects 03:51:31 you mean, regex with macros? 03:51:35 I can't just store the relationships 03:51:35 no 03:51:38 okay 03:51:41 then what? 03:51:52 regex + macros = bnf 03:52:09 though bnf is a bit restricted... at least usually 03:52:12 I mean is there a way to describe the structure of something arbitrarirly instead of having to do it at runtime? 03:52:38 i'm sorry but i do not understand even that :*) 03:52:43 never mind :) 03:52:52 you mean, make the regex at compile time? 03:52:52 * Figs doesn't have a good simple explaination 03:53:02 oh 03:53:04 you can do that, but that's not what you mean 03:53:05 think about it like this 03:53:05 or? 03:53:08 okay 03:53:16 in haskell, you set up the relationships between a lot of things 03:53:26 without having to _do_ anything 03:53:35 hmm 03:53:35 in Prolog, you setup the relationship between logical elements 03:53:39 okay 03:53:42 P(m), Q(m), etc 03:53:49 err yeah 03:53:59 you can use this information without constructing anything 03:54:05 in a sense 03:54:09 until you actually need it 03:54:12 but you can't do that in C++ 03:54:19 except for defining the layout of a class 03:54:45 if I said that regex foo = A|B >> C; 03:54:54 in oklotalk, if you make a regex, it will be an actualy object. 03:54:58 *actual 03:54:59 it has to execute this to construct foo 03:55:33 guess so 03:56:19 foo = [(A|B)C] won't create anything. 03:56:33 http://libfigconfig.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ 03:56:41 unless you do !Foo in a sense "compiling that regex" 03:56:47 *"compiling" 03:57:09 what's that? 03:57:18 read the include and src and you'll get what I am talking about 03:57:24 it's an ini-parser library I wrote 03:57:31 my regex library is in it 03:57:40 it's supposed to be under BSL license 03:57:51 but I think we have MIT put up on the front page 03:58:01 since they didn't have BST on googlecode or something 03:58:10 is anyone here from the UK? 03:58:19 err... i'm not sure i get it from that, Figs :) 03:58:25 just boost regex stuff 03:58:42 you mean it's inefficient having to compile the regexes even if they aren't used? 03:59:27 there is no boost regex stuff 03:59:45 okay, it looked boostish anyway. 03:59:48 I wrote the library 04:00:08 yeah, i then realized that 04:00:20 in C++ everything is still treated like an action 04:00:20 anyway, was your issue the inefficiency? 04:00:24 yes 04:00:31 well, the library works fine 04:00:44 but it's frustrating to have to play by those limitations 04:01:06 because I can't just say there's a particular relationship between two pieces of information 04:01:24 yeah, you have to hack it in instead 04:01:31 basically 04:01:31 by overloading and such 04:01:41 well, i find that great :) 04:01:59 the whole thing is basically expression templates 04:02:01 i loved your clisp and other c++ hacks 04:02:08 thanks :) 04:02:11 yeah 04:02:18 I assume you mean the weird () functional thing I did? 04:02:22 yes 04:02:46 (oklotalk can also simulate lisp, without the ',' even) 04:02:53 :P 04:03:14 I'm redoing the regex library right now... once I finish that, I might write a table class 04:03:17 and without a hack, lisp syntax just arises from the parsing... like in haskell for the most part 04:03:36 Figs: what will tose regexes match, actually? 04:03:38 *those 04:03:49 any pattern in strings 04:04:00 I can refer to other regexes by reference 04:04:08 so I can do recursive matching as well 04:04:12 ah okay, it's tc then 04:04:23 :) 04:04:24 *shrug* 04:04:26 I suppose so 04:04:29 heh 04:04:39 i'm not sure if it is, and how exactly it would be 04:04:46 but that's regex with macros. 04:04:52 :blink: 04:04:59 what do you mean by 'macros' 04:05:05 code substitution 04:05:05 like Lisp macros? 04:05:07 macros. 04:05:12 no, not in that sense 04:05:18 lisp's macros are more advanced 04:05:20 there is no code substitution going on O.o 04:05:23 i mean like in c 04:05:38 if you can refer to other regex, you have macros, basically 04:05:48 no :) 04:06:05 A="asdf"; B="trew"; C=A|B; 04:06:09 if I did that, it'd expand forever before anything happened 04:06:20 Figs: why? 04:06:35 if you have it actually go and do C="asdf"|"trew"... 04:06:36 it's regex with macros if you can do C=C|"er" 04:07:04 but I'm not doing macros O.o 04:07:07 i'm just generalizing the word macro here. 04:07:18 there's probably a better word that will confuse me less :P 04:07:25 you are naming parts of code to use those names instead of the actual code 04:07:27 because I don't know what you're trying to say :( 04:07:33 yes 04:07:37 code being the string 04:07:38 of course 04:07:48 ? 04:07:48 that is the point of macros. 04:08:00 well, you don't actually have "code" in a regex 04:08:02 you have a string 04:08:15 I have trees of behavior :P 04:08:35 yes, but that's just parsed strings. 04:08:54 we're talking about two different things, I think. 04:08:59 possibly 04:09:15 i mean, a macro means you name something to be able to use the name as a shortcut 04:09:22 in C, that is 04:09:34 it can have a more profound meaning as well, but i refer to that. 04:09:40 i refer to C's i mean 04:09:46 just textual substitution basically 04:10:06 if you have that, but instead of shortcutting code, you shortcut strings 04:10:13 then you basically have regex with macros. 04:10:19 I think my system is more complicated than plain substitution since you an have the regexes refer to themselves 04:10:34 but I think I get what you're getting at 04:10:38 yes, regex + macros = bnf as i said 04:10:44 except that you're using words which have different meanings 04:10:47 to me 04:10:53 like what? 04:11:04 i'm always pretty obscure 04:11:10 macros and strings refer to totally different parts of what's going on in the process 04:11:20 from the way I'm used to using those words 04:11:25 you're using them differently 04:11:33 your regexes match strings right? 04:11:34 when I talk about the string, I mean the input string 04:11:42 not whatever the pattern is 04:11:52 yes 04:11:58 they match agaisnt the begining of a string 04:12:06 well, when i say string, i refer to a string or a regex, because it doesn't make a difference 04:12:06 *against 04:12:19 what i'm saying is you are adding macros in regexes. 04:12:22 you mean to a "terminal"? 04:12:38 because when I say string, I mean what you're checking against 04:12:40 ie, 04:12:42 foo is a regex 04:12:48 foo.match("Blah"); 04:12:54 okay, i was talking about the regex, if that helps 04:12:56 will see if "Blah" is accepted by foo 04:13:07 by string I mean "Blah" 04:13:17 i guess you don't think of a regex as a string if you do not construct it with a string. 04:13:30 i mean "[a-d]*d" is a string and a regex clearly 04:13:35 no, I don't think of a regex as a string 04:13:43 but C=A|B>>C; isn't a string, true 04:13:48 I think of a regex as a tree 04:14:32 that, however, is not crucial, i'm just saying by adding functions into regexes you have circumvented the pumping lemma 04:14:45 functions 04:14:47 not macros 04:15:05 because i just realized they indeed are clever macros in yours (== functions) 04:15:16 for one, they can refer to themselves 04:15:26 that isn't really macro behaviour 04:15:40 anyway, you still find something unclear? :\ 04:16:25 "circumvented the pumping lemma" so you can match for example AAAA...AABB...BBBB 04:16:36 where there's the same amount of A's and B's 04:16:55 you can't do that with a regex, but add functions and voila. 04:16:59 just like you did. 04:17:09 please tell me you got it? :) 04:24:32 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 04:35:23 sorry, I had to step away for a second 04:35:26 back 04:36:27 yeah, I think I get it 04:36:32 * Figs pokes oklokok 04:36:49 sorry, strted playing with beepiano :P 04:36:52 *started 04:36:57 :) 04:37:05 I had to eat dinner 04:40:11 heh 04:40:19 I have a cool little pulse :) 04:41:29 it makes a pulse every 20 setps 04:42:26 if you set the speed to 20, it makes a pulse each second 04:47:06 wow 04:47:15 ... :| 04:47:16 :p 04:47:21 I need to write a toggle now 04:47:25 pretty cool when i put my computer's integrated microphone on 04:47:26 that will be neat :) 04:47:30 ? 04:47:39 making more crazy music? 04:47:47 i made a piece actually 04:47:53 it just hard to record in the night :) 04:48:11 but it's great putting the mike on, i hear my typing hard as hell 04:48:17 haha 04:49:30 i can only record the sound of my fingers on the keyboard 04:49:37 so you won't hear my new masterpiece. 04:50:30 have you ever tried using a tracker? 04:50:40 ? 04:50:49 one moment... 04:50:50 i could make wave output straight from the program 04:50:55 that'd be trivial to do 04:50:58 err 04:51:14 http://engramstudio.com/craptracker/tracker.pl <- play with this, you may enjoy it 04:51:19 what am i saying, like Beep would write to a file, i'd have to play with sins and such 04:51:24 *shivarz* 04:51:43 ... 04:51:52 you don't know about trackers? :| 04:52:03 ouch :) 04:52:25 * RodgerTheGreat is listening to Mellow D - xn from Nectarine Demoscene Radio 04:52:31 * Figs gives oklokok kudos for skill 04:52:38 that has a sucky layout, that thingie 04:52:40 i mean 04:52:43 ^ best. internet radio. ever. 04:52:44 note layout 04:52:49 probably better ones 04:52:56 Figs: should i know about trackers? 04:53:01 I use anvil studio, but it has some... issues 04:53:03 yes, you should 04:53:11 if you are at all interested in computer music 04:53:15 oklokok: I have no doubt you could create some awesome things with a proper tracker 04:53:47 Figs: the fact i don't know an english term does not mean i don't know the concept : ) 04:54:20 oh, I thought you didn't know what they were at all :P 04:54:26 RodgerTheGreat: i already love my music, do not increase my assholish self-satisfaction :) 04:54:31 (which was surprising) 04:54:37 Figs: i do not know whether i know 04:54:55 seeing a keyboard piano there doesn't tell me what a tracker is. 04:55:17 http://burningbird.net/technology/glory-days-the-parable-of-the-languages/ <-- Hahaha. (Back to stressing about a paper which may have already been due and which I'm probably going to get a C and mess up my course with.) 04:55:19 if it means a keyboard piano, i have played with one when i was 8 or smth 04:55:22 do you know what a .mod file or .it or .xm is? 04:55:23 oklokok: I love music, and I appreciate it tremendously, but I utterly lack the skill to create it. 04:55:25 but beepiano has a better note layout. 04:55:48 Figs: old mid formats :) 04:55:53 when I want to increase my assholish self-satisfaction, I draw cool things. Art is one of the things *I'm* good at 04:55:59 heh :) 04:56:03 they're not midi formats 04:56:11 they're similar, but not quite the same 04:56:16 they're tremendously superior 04:56:27 Figs: i refer to them as midi, because i've only done midi 04:56:28 .MOD and .XM files bring with them their own samples 04:56:28 basically, the instruments are saved along with the score 04:56:41 oh 04:56:48 you can create instruments as well? 04:56:49 cool 04:56:50 yes 04:57:08 i made a thing once that actually randomized the instrument and the melody 04:57:10 you can bring in samples and change the behavior they have 04:57:13 and made a wav 04:57:22 in some trackers, anyway 04:57:25 for some reason, i was the only one who enjoyed that :) 04:57:42 I think it'd be fun, but I don't know enough about programming music to do it 04:57:45 Figs: i have done guitar pro, logic audio and plain score. 04:57:58 the only interface i found good is logic audio's matrix view 04:58:13 but logic audio sucks ass (the windows translation is buggy i mean) 04:58:23 FL studio is a pretty nice application, in my experience 04:58:32 http://fordy.planetunreal.gamespy.com/images/modt.gif 04:58:34 I have this program 04:58:43 Figs: it created random scales, not that much of a challenge :) 04:59:14 doesn't FL have some restrictions Rodger? 04:59:18 i'm not interested in the actual sound, just the melody, really 04:59:40 personally, I prefer writing in anvil studio which gives you notes 04:59:46 (ok, i like electric quitar and certain keyboard sounds better than square, but not many) 04:59:54 square <3 05:00:11 http://www.sonicspot.com/anvilstudio/anvilstudio.gif 05:00:13 it looks like this 05:00:21 ;) 05:00:27 Figs: i don't see why i'd need that, i do have guitar pro. 05:00:33 actually, that's a very old version 05:00:38 no you don't need this 05:00:45 this isn't a tracker 05:00:49 tabs are better than scores, matrices are better than tabs 05:00:54 okay 05:01:04 tracker does what, you didn't tell me yet :) 05:01:09 this one has some tab support 05:01:42 you use it to write tracker files like .mod and .it 05:02:10 you use it to sequence music 05:02:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker 05:02:40 this will give you some more background if you are interested 05:03:37 i've done a lot of music on the computer, some 100 pieces i think, but i don't really care what program i use, so i haven't tried many out 05:04:03 which means i may lack knowledge that is somehow *basic* 05:04:06 all melody only? 05:04:12 hmm 05:04:16 they are gp4's 05:04:20 ? 05:04:20 guitar pro 05:04:21 oh 05:04:22 mid sounds 05:04:37 melody only? most are polyphonic 05:04:44 not in the classic sense 05:04:49 though 05:05:04 i've only done 10 ro something classical pieces 05:05:13 most are metal/weird 05:05:15 I don't know if you'd like my music or not :P 05:05:23 i would definately want to hear it 05:05:31 almost all of my pieces have a repeated base over and over 05:05:35 did you listen to my music? :) 05:05:39 dynamic scoping is "omgwtfbbq, people actually use this!?!" 05:05:41 bass? 05:05:44 I listened to your keyboard one :) 05:05:46 yes, typo 05:05:56 I tried tracking last time many years ago, but I couldn't figure how people did it. 05:06:00 bsmntbombdood: dynamic scoping is heaven 05:06:05 So many notes ... how do you decide what to use? 05:06:08 nonono 05:06:10 Sukoshi: you're in the same boat as I am 05:06:12 Figs: did you listen to the serious ones? 05:06:19 I listened to the one you linked here 05:06:28 I should try again recently. 05:06:30 the beepiano one? 05:06:30 I'd certainly like to hear more :) 05:06:36 I can't draw for beans either. 05:06:45 http://www.mikseri.net/artists/?id=44508 05:06:45 whatever your 15 year old finnish metal one was 05:06:54 http://www.mikseri.net/artists/?id=62623 05:06:58 oh 05:06:58 in FL Studio and Garageband I can generally manage to goof around and come up with something I enjoy, but trackers mystify me by resembling overly complex hex editors 05:07:10 well, those two are stuff i've actually used time to make 05:07:12 I can't stand garageband :S 05:07:18 ah 05:07:18 Hex editor == love. 05:07:40 I haven't done any hex editing in a while ... I should. 05:07:42 hey oklokok, do you know CTGMusic? 05:07:44 Sukoshi: learning to draw is entirely a factor of the amount of time you put into practicing, practicing, studying the techniques of others and practicing 05:07:50 EXCEPT I HAVE THIS STUPID PAPER I AM STRESSING ABOUT!! 05:07:50 and i have a lot of midi music, but i have so much of it you wouldn't actually listen to all of it if i gave it to you, so there's no point :) 05:08:01 RodgerTheGreat: Kinda like Japanese then. 05:08:07 I would assume so 05:08:13 Figs: sorry, no :) 05:08:20 you might want to take a look 05:08:24 logic audio, guitar pro, powertab 05:08:31 and i've seen garageband 05:08:36 http://www.ctgmusic.com/ 05:08:45 I find art tremendously relaxing, and fun as a creative outlet 05:08:48 Figs: did you listen to the music now? 05:08:49 :) 05:08:52 I am listening 05:09:06 I've always been horrible at art. 05:09:14 i'm not into bassish music, gets a bit repetitive for my taste 05:09:20 bassish? 05:09:21 Figs: you most likely won't like that 05:09:27 techno 05:09:28 When I went to a private school when I was little, I had to get art tutoring :\ 05:09:28 I picked up pixel-art a few years ago, which is handy for making games, with the bizarre side-effect of being able to draw with a mouse about as well as I can with a pencil. :S 05:09:40 cool 05:09:48 a lot of the stuff on CTG is techno, but not all of it 05:09:49 there's youtube videos about that 05:09:57 ? 05:10:02 10 minutes to draw a somewhat realistic woman 05:10:03 I was going to suggest that if you want people to listen, you might put up some of your stuff there 05:10:15 I just have a very bad grasp of spaciality. 05:10:16 I suck at drawing :) 05:10:17 I've seen a few things like that 05:10:29 I can do basic pixel line-art 05:10:35 Everything from math graphs to 2D video games, I can't do it. 05:10:37 Figs: listen to Liekeiss, that's the one people usually like unless they don't like the rest 05:10:42 proportions are something you just have to drill into your head 05:10:56 I don't even understand math graphs until I see the function. 05:10:59 Sukoshi: same for me 05:11:09 liekeissa? 05:11:12 which is that? 05:11:12 people feel sorry for the paper when i draw on it. 05:11:16 Figs: a piece there 05:11:18 Same :P 05:11:26 I don't see it 05:11:32 Figs: two links 05:11:37 two bands. 05:11:37 I see Reflection and Wanna feel pain 05:11:43 that's the old band 05:11:48 Sukoshi: to be honest, I think pixel-art can be an excellent gateway to other kinds of art- I would highly encourage you to try it. Pixel art is nice because it's forgiving (infinite erasures and redraws) and allows you to make very pretty things with varied palettes 05:11:56 that's practically a dead band nowadays 05:12:12 RodgerTheGreat: I still think I'll do awful, heh. 05:12:27 Sukoshi: read tsugumo's tutorial 05:12:30 it's decent :) 05:12:35 probably one of the best ones out there 05:12:45 I made these animations for a sidescroller a friend of mine started working on recently: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1184470821-Sprites.png 05:12:50 and it's liekeiss, a with an umlaut you ignorant american! :P 05:12:56 cool 05:13:08 I don't have access to it on my keyboard so easily as you ;) 05:13:13 Figs: Tsugmo? 05:13:15 you know how to type it 05:13:18 I don't :P 05:13:32 the standing animation was roughly based on a series of drawings I did as a "pencil test" http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/MonkeyAnim.gif 05:13:34 yeah, i know 05:13:35 http://petesqbsite.com/sections/tutorials/tuts/tsugumo/ 05:13:48 oh, that page is fantastic 05:13:56 it's a classic, eh? :) 05:14:36 oklokok, where's the correct link, then? 05:14:46 Figs: you're welcome to show your music, all i have here is time, i'll listen to it all, whether i like it or not 05:14:52 Figs: two links, two bands. 05:14:58 oh 05:15:04 I thought I had the wrong one 05:15:11 nope, you just had the other one. 05:15:12 I finished the Reflection 05:15:25 that's pretty bad quality recording 05:15:41 i fail bad at the keyboards in Wanna feel pain :) 05:15:47 Any good books/guides on tracking? 05:15:50 don't laugh too hard, i was <15 05:16:41 I'm 17 :P 05:17:02 (i guess playing skills can't be excused with age since there are 5-year-olds playing many things as well as me) 05:17:03 I'm not well versed in metal, so I don't know what's good or not 05:17:20 Figs: you still might notice a mistake. 05:17:36 *shrug* 05:17:50 i think i play faster than any less-than-8-year-old 05:17:56 but that's it 05:17:57 let me see what I can dig up here, hold on 05:18:12 I haven't written any good music in a long time 05:18:31 (i can play parts of yngwies blitzkrieg on the keyboards if that tells anyone anything :P) 05:19:10 (prolly not, you technoboys) 05:19:23 (:P) 05:19:24 food -> 05:19:59 I'll send you three of my old pieces 05:20:43 I never finished any of these songs 05:20:47 heh 05:20:55 i can finish them for you if you want :P 05:20:59 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E6D2GV1I 05:21:06 nah, I'll keep working on them 05:21:12 okay 05:21:20 they're rather weird :P 05:21:27 let me see what else I can dig up 05:21:28 that's always good 05:23:20 here's another one, 05:23:21 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QU0M2LN0 05:23:26 this is probably one of my better ones 05:23:41 but it is a prime example of a boring bass :) 05:23:58 actually playing it on piano, it would probably sound better 05:24:06 since there would be more variations in the way it sounds 05:24:34 Figs: if you don't like heavy, i don't recommend listening to hereford, amorte is pop, if you like that more 05:24:44 well, not that pop 05:24:46 but quite 05:26:58 oh my fucking god 05:27:01 i have my mike on 05:27:09 and put the volume up 05:27:20 well, for some reason it's a software thing here 05:27:31 so my computer lags -> volume goes full 05:27:41 O.o ouch 05:27:44 no way to put it back except wait for it to stop lagging 05:28:13 so i just played a high tone for about a minute in a very big volume 05:28:43 (my dad can't hear that high a tone i think :P but neighbour might've woken up) 05:29:07 :S 05:29:18 you should get some headphones 05:29:31 the hole for them is broken :) 05:29:34 it will make your life easier listening to music at night :) 05:29:38 oh, that sucks :( 05:29:49 can't repair it? 05:30:22 my music any good? 05:30:26 yeah prolly... but haven't sent it to be repaired :) 05:30:32 well, the lag prevented my opening it 05:30:35 but i'll listen now 05:30:37 ok 05:31:14 nice and simple 05:31:20 thanks :) 05:31:23 this isn't techno 05:31:25 no 05:31:32 i though when you said something about bazz 05:31:33 I didn't say anything about writing techno 05:31:35 zabaz 05:31:35 bass 05:31:43 I write a very repeatitive bass part 05:31:47 like in The Way 05:31:53 (you're not the only one allowed to typo that") 05:31:55 ! 05:32:05 *repetative 05:32:08 :D 05:32:25 i see now what you meant by that 05:32:29 :P 05:32:36 it would sound much better actually played 05:32:44 can you play it? 05:32:47 parts of it 05:33:00 i can play it if you like 05:33:03 I've never taken any piano lessons, so... 05:33:13 well, make sure you listen to the whole thing through 05:33:13 if i can still play the piano, haven't done that in a while :P 05:33:23 before commiting to that ;) 05:33:29 some of it's really a bit weird :P 05:33:40 and might be quite difficult to actually play 05:33:52 (or physically impossible) 05:33:54 i used to play 8 notes / second or something 05:34:25 well, if you can play it, I'd love to hear it played on a real piano :) 05:34:51 hmm, it's of course impossible to get those 3 melodies played simultaniously 05:35:00 well, for me it would be :) 05:35:11 but i can work out something 05:35:36 I think I originally intended it to be playable, but I later realized that I just didn't the hand coordination to do it 05:35:46 so I went a bit crazy later on in the piece with the variations and things 05:36:41 i wouldn't really call that a piece to be honest, it's 30 sec :) 05:36:55 I said I never finished most of my work :) 05:37:06 * Figs points to Satie 05:37:07 if you wanna be strict, you'd need 4 hands for that 05:37:21 or two sets of hands ;) 05:37:37 well, it's called 4-handed playing in finland 05:37:40 a piano term 05:37:44 oh 05:37:54 * Figs doesn't know piano terms 05:37:56 Forteissimo? 05:38:06 O.o 05:38:26 Forteissimo == Strong playing. 05:38:26 forte fortissimo!! 05:38:32 Pianissimo == Weak playing. 05:38:36 (piano pianissimo) 05:38:56 crecendo Crecendo CRecendo CRE-FUCKING-CENDO 05:38:57 ... 05:39:03 wtf? 05:39:04 :P 05:39:08 I know those terems :) 05:39:09 You sound like my art teacher :D 05:39:09 *Terms 05:39:15 DImi(nuen.d..o...) 05:39:25 s/art/old piano/ 05:39:40 * Figs points to music which has "retard." written in the score 05:39:56 Je suis en retard. 05:40:12 Figs: those are the terms people use out of musical context as well, though 05:40:36 I know a lot of basic musical terms since I've had a couple years playing the flute 05:40:41 staccato doesn't really mean anything unless you've actually played an instrument 05:40:45 plus I've been composing for a long time 05:40:47 but 05:40:54 I don't know many piano specific things 05:40:56 or legato 05:41:01 even better, portato :) 05:41:09 potato! :) 05:41:14 Non-piano people know about potato. 05:41:18 Darn, beat me to it :P 05:41:22 :P 05:41:22 :P 05:41:25 get a room 05:41:32 for potatoes? 05:41:36 err... yes. 05:41:45 * Figs shows you he already has an adequate root room. 05:42:12 do you say po-tay-to? 05:42:33 Yeah. 05:43:17 here's another song 05:43:25 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HJYH980M 05:43:55 this isn't really the most 'together' piece in the world, but eh, none of my stuff is :) 05:45:07 a lot of my music would probably take a couple listens through before it makes any sense 05:45:14 that happens to me even sometimes 05:45:17 and I wrote the songs 05:45:27 it reminds me a bit of the Beatles' music 05:45:37 I have to listen through their songs a couple times before I can follow it 05:46:14 I'm sure there are other groups like that, but they're the only ones that come to mind right now 05:46:37 I have no idea what style of music I'm writing though :P 05:47:01 most of it is based off of things I figured out listening to game sound tracks 05:47:09 like Chrono Trigger and Zelda 05:49:32 what was I doing? 05:49:42 I'm ranting!! 05:49:53 * Figs shuts up for a few minutes 05:50:07 * Figs prods Sukoshi and oklokok 05:50:12 i'd say you write backround music, easy going and no surprises (i don't mean utterly simple, i mean the easy-goin-ness) 05:50:26 yeah, I agree 05:50:28 just as you said yourself, actually 05:50:38 the thing is 05:50:47 there are a lot of different sorts of background musics 05:51:11 like what you'd have in a battle in a video game is very different from what you'd have in an elevator :) 05:51:11 true, i've never been good at categorizing music 05:51:21 since there aren't good terms for that 05:51:33 there are genres, but those are about sound, not melody. 05:52:08 Figs: to upload there, do you need an account? 05:52:12 no 05:52:15 i could up you come of my mids 05:52:21 *some 05:52:46 sure 05:55:03 hahah! this is classic :) 05:55:17 "Consider how often writers abuse the apostrophe; not to mention the semicolon." 05:55:53 :D 05:57:57 http://burningbird.net/technology/glory-days-the-parable-of-the-languages/ <-- Hahaha. (Back to stressing about a paper which may have already been due and which I'm probably going to get a C and mess up my course with.) 05:58:28 what's the paper? 05:58:34 Art history. 05:58:43 Numerous problems, much stressing. Parental angst included. 05:58:56 But I'm stressing so hard right now that I have to do some Japanese to calm down. 05:59:41 it seems i can't convert gp4 to mid. 05:59:46 :S 05:59:56 i have both gp4 and gp5 06:00:10 neither can make it neither mid nor wav 06:00:12 sukoshi: ah 06:00:14 hmm :( 06:00:20 even though both have that export 06:00:25 the files just don't work 06:03:09 err 06:03:17 it seems i just didn't have enough ram to listen xD 06:04:32 :P 06:04:37 ok 06:06:27 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JW278ACC 06:06:33 random pieces 06:06:58 the guitar sucks if you're not used to it 06:14:49 those all have lyrics as well but i don't think you'd be interested :D 06:15:03 :P 06:15:25 I'm not too big on metal to be honest 06:15:32 but I am listening :) 06:16:28 I'm going to sleep. 'night, guys 06:16:33 night 06:16:42 it's morning here though 06:16:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:16:45 cya rodger 06:16:49 too slow :P 06:16:52 ah 06:16:53 heh 06:17:35 i have very little stuff without the guitar 06:18:35 this last one sounds a bit like you'd hear in a boss battle in a game 06:18:43 which one? 06:18:52 or in a dungeon 06:19:05 Essence of Truth 06:20:05 the two other are pretty basic metal 06:20:14 EOT is one of my more creative ones 06:20:19 I like it :) 06:20:29 especially that other lighter theme 06:20:39 yeah, it's pretty great 06:20:45 06:20:47 :P 06:23:06 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0WO5ZRQ2 06:23:12 that's a bit long 06:23:46 and because of the nature of guitar pro, it's very repetitive 06:25:26 oh my god 06:25:33 I've been sitting here for 30 minutes 06:25:35 debuging this program 06:25:40 :P 06:25:44 because I was testing against something that wasn't a variable!?!?!?!?! 06:25:46 that's not that long... 06:25:48 >.< 06:25:50 :D 06:25:52 oh 06:26:02 damn you interpretted languages with weak type checking!! 06:26:13 it didn't give me an error message 06:26:17 it just evaluated to null 06:26:20 i used > hour because i was setting a global variable in a constructor instead of the objects variables :) 06:26:25 had the wrong namd 06:26:28 I'm remarkably curious how you can not tell that something's a variable. 06:26:36 and happened to have variables with the same name 06:26:38 -!- Figs has left (?). 06:26:52 -!- Figs has joined. 06:26:54 oops 06:26:57 * pikhq is a Tcler; variable references are preceded with $ or used as an argument to set. 06:27:13 So, "$foo" or [set foo] 06:28:59 last one, i promise :P 06:29:04 this is my newest http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7KIMP763 06:29:10 2 hour project 06:29:11 still waiting on the other :P 06:29:15 oh :D 06:30:10 oh my god that's a cool guitar solo 06:30:35 @ 8 min exactly 06:31:56 I have to ask you people -- how do you know which instrument produces the sound you want and when? 06:32:05 ? 06:32:10 what do you mean? 06:32:11 pikhq: guile replaced tcl 06:32:27 I can understand on Piano, mainly because I have piano experience, but when you're composing music you don't just use one instrument. 06:32:46 I like what you have at about 3:00 06:32:50 i don't care that much about the choise for instrument 06:32:54 in a long story 06:32:59 i'll check it out 06:33:03 bsmntbombdood: In the same sense that BASIC replaced C? 06:33:11 That doesen't help much oklokok :P 06:33:23 Do you just experiment and find the correct sounds neccessary? 06:33:28 pikhq: in the sense that scheme pwns 06:33:35 he's right though 06:33:37 Sukoshi: are you talking about the instrument or the notes? 06:33:38 it doesn't really matter 06:33:51 any instrument can produce any tone 06:33:53 you just play with the instruments 06:34:03 till you get the texture and tones you like 06:34:07 Ah. So it's like playing with a REPL. 06:34:15 but when writing it, I usually just write with piano 06:34:19 Sukoshi: yes, if you're a noob :) 06:34:19 and then arrange later 06:34:28 i compose in my head 06:34:31 REPL? 06:34:40 read-eval-process-something 06:34:41 :P 06:34:44 err 06:34:46 bsmntbombdood: Scheme and Tcl both pwn. . . ;) 06:34:59 oklokok: Read Eval Print Loop. 06:35:01 suuuuuuure 06:35:02 loop is the last 06:35:04 yeah and print 06:35:24 wow, this is kind of cool... 06:35:33 what? 06:35:45 ok, you remember that little esolang I was talking about? 06:35:58 the one meant to be like befuge? 06:36:10 I wrote it :) 06:36:11 yes 06:36:20 it doesn't look very language like though :P 06:36:27 hmm, i didn't really check it out that well 06:36:31 pikhq: Ignore the ranter. 06:36:40 i did something else when you were explaining it 06:37:18 let me see if I can do some simple adding 06:37:31 I know I can do at least an And and an OR 06:38:06 ah 3:00 is the chorus 06:38:16 argh my "," is broken!ti9grje 06:39:27 okay, i'll stop listening to my mids now 06:39:33 i like them too much. 06:39:35 food - 06:39:37 -> 06:40:06 I think I've got something cool now... 06:40:14 let's see if i can make a 2 pulse 06:40:37 steady clock 06:40:39 :) 06:40:41 sweet 06:40:46 very easily too 06:42:47 -!- Figs has left (?). 06:42:56 -!- Figs has joined. 06:42:58 wrong button again!! 06:46:43 hmm 06:46:48 oklokok 06:46:52 can you repaste your second link? 06:46:55 the most recent one? 06:47:02 (the one after a long story) 06:47:14 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7KIMP763 06:47:17 thanks 06:47:24 ((lambda (x) `(,x ',x)) '(lambda (x) `(,x ',x))) 06:47:32 switch back again? :P 06:47:44 I've got it so I have two streams now 06:47:48 that come together 06:48:06 and one has pulse every other time the other one comes 06:48:20 it would be easy to build those memory cells, I think 06:48:30 now that I have toggle gates 06:49:04 I need to design a system that will let me edit these though 06:49:11 since they're all hard coded in right now 06:51:04 bsmntbombdood: Looks combinatorial. 06:51:17 looks siisiish. 06:51:39 wow, it's crazy watching this go at 60 frames a second 06:53:09 pikhq: huh? 06:55:31 bsmntbombdood: I'm a poor, poor Tcler. Could you give me your lambda in Tclexps? 06:55:45 i don't know tcl... 06:55:51 pikhq: siisii. 06:56:01 ```sii``sii 06:56:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:56:10 right? 06:56:31 [apply {x {$x $x}}] {x {$x $x}} 06:56:42 I think that's the correct translation into Tcl 8.5. . . 06:57:05 . . . No. 06:57:40 tcl's code isn't data, is it? 06:57:46 Sure it is. 06:58:28 ok, what's (lambda (x) ...)? 06:58:50 {x {...}} 06:59:12 and how do you construct code? 06:59:47 Construct a string containing your code, eval it, apply it, or make a proc out of it. 07:00:31 how do you append strings, and call functions? 07:00:33 what's (lambda (x) (lambda (y) x)) ? :) 07:00:57 K 07:01:10 bsmntbombdood: in tcl 07:01:32 {x {y {x}}? 07:01:53 apply {x {apply {y {$x}}} ? 07:01:53 i mean {x {{y {x}}}} 07:02:26 pikhq: what's the syntax for calling functions 07:02:56 Start a line with it if it's named. If it's anonymous, pass it to the apply function. 07:03:26 and appending? 07:03:39 Appending to a function? 07:03:48 strings 07:04:02 Oh, that's easy. Use the append function. 07:04:21 ok, lets see 07:04:26 append varName ?value value value ...? 07:05:04 (or: set varName [concat $varName value value value ...]) 07:05:13 huh? 07:05:34 oh, i see 07:06:31 {x {concat x "\"" x "\""}} "{x {concat x "\"" x "\""}}" 07:06:31 :S 07:06:34 this is really annoying 07:06:35 something like that 07:07:27 is [apply [apply {x {{y {x}}}} 3] 2] actually 3, or does tcl break on it? 07:07:55 Let me just try it. 07:08:30 Syntactically invalid. 07:08:59 The inner lambda tries to execute the command "y {x}", which is, I believe, not what you want. 07:09:03 pikhq: actually i don't think i got a reasonable answer to what K is 07:09:54 Here's the most portable version of K: proc K {x y} {set x} 07:10:36 Anonymously: {{x y} {set x}} 07:10:46 pikhq: actually i am asking if tcl does lambda calculus worth the name 07:11:02 pikhq: curry 07:12:18 http://wiki.tcl.tk/4824 This appears to be one solution. 07:13:55 Note that that code is written using the latest stable Tcl build, which doesn't have functions as a first-class object. 07:15:58 no closures, in other words 07:16:08 http://wiki.tcl.tk/16182 This describes the alpha Tcl build. ;) 07:17:40 oerjan: Can be added. 07:18:50 BAHHHH!!! >.< 07:18:59 * Figs destroys program in a frenzy 07:21:06 * oerjan notes that >.< is legal brainfuck 07:21:17 :P 07:21:47 this is just another reason to prove I should never use this system again 07:22:05 (lambda (fn . a) (lambda b (apply fn (append a b)))) 07:22:21 the object system is fucked up and collisions after creating new objects don't always seem to take proper precedence 07:22:23 curry is simple in scheme! 07:22:46 Chicken Curry? :P 07:22:52 * Figs makes bad jokes :P 07:23:06 i looooove curry 07:24:42 {{fn a} {apply {b {apply fn {apply a b}}}}}, I think, is currywurst. XD 07:25:32 Bleh. Nope: {{fn a} {apply {b {apply $fn {apply $a $b}}}}} 07:25:36 Khichoree full of ghee ... mmmmm.... 07:28:55 bsmntbombdood: Happy? 07:29:33 that doesn't look right 07:29:59 Sorry; I'm kind of new to doing strictly functional coding in Tcl. 07:30:42 O_o 07:30:45 oh grief 07:30:47 >.< 07:30:51 beware!! 07:31:29 it's not a good thing when a manga you used to read has the same title as a Shonen-ai anime and you start using google to find the old manga >.< 07:31:51 shonen-ai? 07:32:02 "boy-love" 07:32:07 >.< 07:32:09 hawt 07:32:39 ie, gay romance story for girls 07:32:53 (usually for girls :S) 07:39:17 Shounen-ai! 07:39:24 Not Shonen. 07:39:35 * Figs makes lots of typoes 07:39:36 :) 07:39:43 I don't care; don't want it either way. :p 07:39:47 :P 07:40:27 anyone got the link to brainfuck or befunge on the wiki? 07:40:28 You should care, being a Japanese student and all. 07:40:30 * Figs can't remember the link 07:40:39 I haven't taken japanese in a year :) 07:40:43 but eh 07:41:09 I mean pikhq. 07:41:19 ??? 07:41:32 oh 07:41:44 Sukoshi: Well, yeah. I mostly just don't care in that shoujo-ai is preferable by a large margin. :p 07:41:44 I thought you were telling me I should care I made a typo on the word shounen 07:42:17 I don't watch Shounen-ai meself, and I prefer Yuri (not Shoujo-ai!) but case in point. 07:42:59 So, yeah. Mostly saying that I don't want gay pron. ;p 07:43:14 what's the difference between yuri and shoujo-ai? 07:46:59 Shoujo-ai was made by an American person who took the Japanese semi-slang word Shoujo-ai and twisted it. No-one outside the US really uses it. 07:47:26 But generally, Shoujo-ai is ``softcore''. 07:48:02 I was mostly using it as contrast to shounen-ai; presumably, that's how the term came into usage here. 07:48:26 Yeah. 07:48:33 softcore gay porn is for wimps. 07:48:41 I don't watch pron... :P 07:48:51 oklokok: can I quote you on that? 07:48:52 Softcore meaning no sex involved. 07:49:00 oklokok: You like t3h tentacle raep? 07:49:04 Figs: sure :P 07:49:07 Too coolz for me >> 07:49:23 Sukoshi: depends on how many tentacles 07:49:26 Shoujo-ai is used in some circles, but it's dying out too. 07:49:28 O.o 07:49:42 oklokok: Tentacle loli raep right? Since tentacle raep is only loli-licious. 07:49:46 is it used in some squares? :P 07:49:48 _Lockpick Pornography_ is a good book 07:49:56 o.O 07:50:00 i've watched tentacle stuff, also loli+tentacle, but i can't say i enjoy any hentai really 07:50:00 wtf? 07:50:09 bsmnt: wtf is that? 07:50:14 :P 07:50:16 Figs: a good book 07:50:20 oklokok: Then I'll be glad to confiscate your collection. 07:50:22 what is it about...? 07:50:29 ;p 07:50:34 Figs: a couple of gay people 07:50:41 pikhq: i don't have any hentai on my hd 07:50:41 ... 07:50:45 s/couple of/few/ 07:51:09 pikhq wants the loli-licious tentacles? 07:51:14 .... 07:51:20 that just sounds nasty! 07:51:22 Yeah, I've never seen hentai, nor do I intend to. 07:51:31 bsmntbombdood: No, I just want to sell it for great profit. 07:51:45 Sukoshi: yuri is hentai 07:52:01 I've seen some, most is just stupid. 07:52:16 bsmntbombdood: No it's not. 07:52:19 pikhq: suuuuuure 07:52:22 Not always, I mean. 07:52:23 Sukoshi: suuuuuuure 07:52:26 Figs: Porn is stupid by definition. ;) 07:52:28 Yuri can be softore, obviously. 07:52:31 *softcore 07:52:37 (Wait? Is softcore porn?) 07:52:40 pikhq: how is porn stupid? 07:52:45 porn is great 07:52:53 Sukoshi: porn is hard to define 07:52:53 Whatever it is, it doesen't involve any sex or nekkidness. 07:53:01 how can it be yuri then 07:53:10 bsmntbombdood: .... Typical male behavior :D 07:53:14 oklokok: It appeals to the stupider, animalistic instincts by design. 07:53:22 There are these things called relationships. 07:53:23 lovely lesbian lolis 07:53:38 Yes. Loving the *person* not the *body*. Crazy, I know. 07:54:02 you can tell about a person through their body 07:54:05 Sukoshi: So, you've got romance novels, rather than porn. Main difference being the audience. :p 07:54:18 Yeah. Romance is the more appropriate word. 07:54:23 wow, uhm... I have _really_ gotten this channel off topic! 07:54:25 :D 07:54:28 lol. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Dream_of_the_fishermans_wife_hokusai.jpg 07:54:28 success! 07:54:38 Figs: That's inherent in the channel. 07:54:46 Sukoshi: is it arousing? 07:54:54 bsmntbombdood: Errr... no? 07:55:03 then it's probably not porn 07:55:07 Well, I guess it is *sometimes*, but I don't read it for arousement. 07:55:15 Sukoshi, are you a bunny? 07:55:19 ??? 07:55:23 www.egscomics.com 07:55:26 aah 07:55:39 Sukoshi: suuuure you don't 07:55:40 you might find it interesting 07:56:35 hmm, i should try some sleeping soon 07:56:44 it's got to be like what 07:56:46 9 am there? 07:56:49 10 07:56:52 wow. :) 07:56:58 oklokok: still on uberman's? 07:57:27 bsmntbombdood: i just can't wake up once i fall asleep, failed the second night :P 07:57:35 bleh 07:57:38 i don't even recall putting the clock off 07:57:45 even though i had multiple 07:58:09 3 i think, one is on the computer 07:58:20 Sukoshi: i can't help it, it's genetics 07:58:33 either i shut them all off or i just slept the hour they were ringing :) 07:59:01 i thought i might try sleeping on the floor tonight 07:59:03 might help 07:59:10 my bed is so comfortable. 07:59:15 uh <3 07:59:49 -> 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:59 O.o 08:04:39 I tried polyphasic (not Uberman) for 2 weeks. 08:05:06 One day, I slept through two blaring alarms that woke up my mom and my sister in another room through closed doors all the way across the hall. 08:05:20 After that I realized polyphasic was a failure :P 08:05:51 Sukoshi: what schedule? 08:06:20 bsmntbombdood: I can't remember offhand, but it was rearranged for school purposes. 08:06:49 i think i'm going to try 24 hours awake, 12 hours asleep sometime 08:07:54 I do a 4 hours asleep, 20 hours awake routine. 08:08:07 riiiiight 08:08:13 Yeah. 08:08:18 It's not hard, you know. 08:08:41 I never understood how people sleep longer than 4 hours. What's the difference between sleeping for a long time and sleeping forever? 08:08:45 that's the same amount of sleep as uberman's, without the spacing out for REM 08:08:59 No. Uberman is 2. 08:09:13 no dreams? :( 08:09:22 Figs: How do you know? 08:09:26 oh, right 08:09:27 I don't get dreams ever anyways. 08:09:37 i forgot 08:09:45 I always get dreams, even if I forget them :) 08:09:46 Sukoshi: I've been known to sleep for 12 hours at a time. 08:09:55 I know because of psychology :) 08:10:03 I probably can't handle low amounts of sleep well at all. ;) 08:10:12 Well true. I don't remember my dreams, so it is quite pointless. 08:10:14 i sleep for >12 regularly, sometimes 15 08:10:24 Sukoshi -- why not try to remember your dreams? 08:10:28 Even with 4 hours, I can't get all the things I want to in a day done. 08:10:31 Figs: Because sleep is boring. 08:10:31 it's easy to do if you decide you want to 08:10:37 Lucid dreaming 08:10:41 it ain't boring ;) 08:10:45 last night i went to bed at 1:30 and got up at 2:00 08:10:54 Your programming time is cut, your time for Japanese is cut, you can't even enjoy anime or watch TV. 08:11:01 0130 - 1400, that is 08:11:17 Especially on school days with school and homework taking large chunks of the day out. 08:11:30 How do you propose I do my daily electronics homework too then? 08:11:41 My usual time is closer to 6, but in the summer, I drift to 12 hours of sleep and my body *tries* to shove me into a 36-hour day. 08:11:42 Lucid dreaming won't teach me about RF ;) 08:12:10 Boooring. 08:12:15 Sukoshi: it could 08:12:23 Summer I do 4-5 hours. School I do 2-4 hours. 08:12:41 impossible 08:12:47 Not really. 08:12:58 Healthy? Probably not. Fun? As hell. 08:13:32 i would do a temporary complete sleep-dep experiment, but not that 08:14:02 The sheer volume of stuff I do in a day does not fit in even 20 hours, how do you expect it to fit in less? 08:14:13 I'm trying to find a spot to cram in daily blog writing and extra Kanji time. 08:14:27 sukoshi: optomization :D 08:14:40 Maybe if I adjust my gaming time a little bit, I've been thinking, but I've already cut down gaming to 1 hour. 08:14:46 so make your days longers 08:14:51 So I'm not sure what else I can do. 08:14:56 get a time turner thing from hp 3 :P 08:15:02 ;D 08:15:28 get everything you want to done; sleep; repeat 08:15:30 If the art history course went away, the time would appear. 08:15:40 I have other obligations and parents you know. 08:15:40 finish art history? 08:15:46 forget stupid 24hourness 08:16:07 My solution is remarkably simple: gaming? meh. TV? Not worth spending time for, anyway. 08:16:07 actually sukoshi, I haven't sleep properly in 15 years :) 08:16:11 Etc. . . 08:16:23 I only watch Good Eats. But I watch a lot of anime. 08:16:24 BAHWRLKRFJ:EWLR :D:D: /.. .. . . .. ... ... .. :D 08:16:30 It makes good spoken Japanese practice. 08:16:42 SeeeEEEE how FIne?! I turrrrrnede out ??? ::DDDD 08:16:45 Along with manga reading (which I'm also trying to insert to the daily routine), and novel reading. 08:17:33 i think your logic is flawed 08:17:45 add some hedonism in 08:17:47 jeez 08:18:07 I live for learning and creating. I get a kick out of my daily routine. 08:18:16 I do it because it's a *lot* of fun. 08:18:19 do what you want to, now 08:18:29 But then other things start slipping. 08:18:32 you don't need a routine 08:18:54 This is a pointless debate, and my break time's over. You need a routine if you want to keep a standard in several daily tasks. 08:19:04 Studying requires dedication. Anyways, see jah. 08:19:44 if it was fun you wouldn't need to force yourself into it 08:20:02 I'm closer to a full-time hacker who does other things when the mood comes to me. Not really good for anything other than hacking, though. ;) 08:20:24 Egads, my brain! 08:20:25 :P 08:20:29 that describes me, I think. 08:20:38 Sukoshi, have fun 08:20:42 but don't hurt yourself 08:21:03 most people have better mental powers after a full sleep 09:02:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:11:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:39:00 * pikhq goes off to collapse somewhere 09:44:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:45:41 BWAHAHA! 09:45:43 .... 09:45:51 I got it exactly 09:45:57 at 1:45:00 am 09:48:15 -!- Figs has quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"). 09:48:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:49:14 Figs uses Windows? 09:49:15 :( 10:22:10 gonna sleep now, gnight 10:22:23 sweet dreams 10:22:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("OGG>MP3, end of story."). 10:37:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:13:18 -!- jix has joined. 11:15:25 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:10:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:11:02 -!- ihope has joined. 15:33:23 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 16:09:56 Sukoshi: I am trying to do Lucid dreaming but not getting anywhere 16:10:31 any hints? 16:12:33 you want hints from Sukoshi, who does not have dreams, ever? 16:13:33 argh why is every goddamn language so verbose 16:13:49 i don't want to write 100 lines to get a simple 2d game engine rolling 16:13:55 that's a fucking oneliner in oklotalk 16:14:02 oops, got confused 16:14:30 I meant Figs. 16:14:43 oklopol: example? 16:15:02 * oklopol knew who you meant, he's just an evil bitch 16:15:18 SimonRC: pygame :P 16:15:45 i've only tried pygame, java applets and sdl for graphics... so i shouldn't really blame every language i guess :D 16:17:11 i know K does mandelbrot with a oneliner 16:17:22 b:4>@[n;&0n=n:+/_sqr 50{c+(-/x*x;2*/x)}/c:+,/(-1.5+2*(!w)%w),/:\:-1+2*(!w)%w:200;:;4];`mandel.pbm 6:"P4\n",(5:2#w),"\n",_ci 2_sv'-1 8#,/+(2#w)#b 16:17:28 I meant, what is the "D game, and what is it in Oklotalk? 16:17:32 that's like compressed sex 16:17:42 * 2D 16:17:46 oklopol: erm, yeah 16:17:59 I am not experienced enough to appreciate your analogy 16:18:11 experienced in sex or in K? 16:18:16 both 16:18:27 I have not experienced either at all :-( 16:18:33 K beats sex by a mile, if you have to choose between those, do K 16:18:56 are you sure? 16:19:04 i haven't done that much K 16:19:10 but i've seen it's beauty 16:19:11 heh 16:21:01 draw(50 50 100 100)world files Somepic; 16:21:09 will output an image on the screen 16:21:15 that's it. 16:21:16 ¿Qué es K? 16:21:31 ihope: it's the language. 16:21:49 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:21:49 (Which, unfortunately, is pronounced roughly like "kay es kah" rather than "kay es kay".) 16:21:59 Its implementation propeitry, though 16:22:03 +is 16:22:05 -!- jix has joined. 16:22:11 Also, did somebody say never dreams ever? 16:22:13 :-P 16:22:18 yes, Sukoshi 16:22:46 IIRC dreams occur mostly in the later sleep, so if you don't sleep much you will dream disproprotionately less 16:23:26 Hmm... 16:23:30 How does Sukoshi sleep? 16:23:57 2-5 16:23:58 hours 16:24:00 a nite 16:24:29 SimonRC: dreams occur in rem 16:24:31 That seems... not a lot. 16:24:36 rem comes in cycles 16:24:46 but moreso later on 16:24:50 4 or something times in a normal night's sleep 16:24:51 2-5 hours per nite? that's... not much 16:24:56 I usually get 7. 16:25:06 Well, people do dream during naps. 16:25:08 2-5 hour... that... little is very :| 16:25:23 ihope: yes, that's the basis of uberman 16:25:25 's 16:25:41 how much coffee does he drink!? 16:25:47 she, actually 16:25:48 Uberman is related to dreaming? 16:25:49 ihope: presumably because they don't need deep sleep at that point 16:25:59 ihope: rem is when you dream 16:26:11 and it seems that is the only necessary phase of sleep 16:26:29 sp3tt: is amount of coffee consumed actually related to amount of sleep? 16:26:34 not proven, but if people are on uberman's for over a year, i'm pretty sure it's true 16:26:35 oklopol: you sure it's only during REM? 16:26:46 ihope: from what i read about uberman 16:26:50 's, yes 16:28:10 "A 'dream' is the experience of a sequence of images, sounds, ideas, emotions, or other sensations during sleep, especially REM sleep." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream 16:29:22 So what's this saying Sukoshi doesn't dream, again? 16:29:27 well, that's the actual "dreaming phase" 16:29:36 the phases aren't *that* discrete 16:29:45 hmm 16:29:52 i'm not sure what i meant by that 16:30:05 ihope: Sukoshi said she doesn't have dreams. 16:30:40 Well, you can't rely on that. 16:30:57 ihope: meaning she does not remember them 16:31:01 * ihope nods 16:31:05 which essentially is the same thing 16:31:21 * ihope shrugs 16:31:24 (assuming everyone *knows* she of course actually has dream) 16:31:27 *dreams 16:31:39 With practice, dream recall can be "learned". 16:31:54 * oklopol knows 16:32:00 * oklopol has done that 16:32:24 it's just my dreams are rarely worth mentioning 16:32:29 either they're boring as hell 16:32:34 or too sick to tell publicly 16:34:02 for example, i've had a dream where i'd just walk home from school 16:34:08 that's a 5 mile walk 16:34:17 nothing happened. 16:39:25 Wait, you say oklotalk does a certain sort of 2D game engine in one line? 16:39:40 that's most likely not true. 16:39:42 :) 16:39:48 i just got pissed at python 16:39:53 Er, oh, I see. 16:40:03 i can try making one, we'll see how long it'll take 16:40:09 i mean, in code length 16:40:15 * ihope ponders a Haskell one-liner 16:40:27 A *useful* Haskell one-liner. 16:40:46 Useful, or some such. 16:41:04 Or some other such, that is. 16:41:31 BBM simulator thingy? 16:43:20 q[]=[];q(x:s)=(\(y,z)->q y++x:q z)$partition( that is quicksrt 16:43:32 ISTR there is a 22-char one too 16:45:19 {->[];L->'({_<:L}\L)+:L+'({_>:L}\L)} 16:45:21 in oklotalk 16:45:26 but that's still pretty clear 16:45:35 you can make it tremendously shorter 16:46:52 how so? 16:47:05 i tried to find my shorter one 16:47:08 but can't 16:47:15 i'll try to remake it 16:47:25 sort [] = []; sort (x:xs) = sort (filter xs (<= x)) ++ [x] ++ sort (filter xs (> x)) 16:47:40 sort [] = []; sort (x:xs) = filter (sort xs) (<= x) ++ [x] ++ filter (sort xs) (> x) 16:47:50 Not sure which is better. 16:48:38 sort[]=[];sort(x:xs)=filter(sort xs)(<=x)++x:filter(sort xs)(>x) 16:48:44 {->$;'(._<\:_)+.:+'$._<\:_} 16:48:50 still a lot of redundancy 16:48:51 * ihope squishes 16:49:05 you have the arguments to filter backwards 16:49:06 that's 27 16:49:07 How short does it go? 16:49:15 Indeed, I do. 16:49:16 and you will want to use partition of maximum shortness 16:49:19 *for 16:50:01 well, i've been thinking of a partitioning operator (for this exact reason, originally :P), but that'd be cheating 16:50:20 also... sorting in quicksort is /. 16:50:25 that's a one-char 16:50:58 /. is one character? 16:51:04 hmm, i'm not sure if that was the command, i don't have the spec here and i've done a lot of remake to make use for every char :P 16:51:07 ihope: / 16:51:11 . ended my sentence 16:51:32 Oh, right. 16:51:33 it's a prefix operator, /1 5 3 6 === 1 3 5 6 16:52:08 sort=Data.List.sort 16:52:13 Sort in Haskell :-P 16:52:21 Data.List.sort > /! :P 16:52:28 is that quaranteed to be quicksort? 16:52:29 :) 16:52:36 Maybe? 16:52:50 If you have import qualified Data.List as L, sort=L.sort 16:52:53 i'm not sure what maybe with a question mark means 16:52:57 If you have import Data.List, sort is free :-) 16:53:10 Um... same as without, I suppose. 16:53:59 End everything with a question mark, if you want? It'll look weird, though? 16:54:01 :-P 16:54:49 sort is free? 16:56:01 No definition required. 16:56:11 It's in Data.List, and you've imported Data.List. 16:56:37 you don't have to import anything to have / in oklotalk :) 16:57:33 lsort needs Lang!List, but you usually have that already imported (oklotalk also has an OS under it that's somewhat attached to the language) 16:58:00 (so imports and stuff like that are sometimes implicit) 16:58:12 (depending on where you are coding / scripting) 16:58:18 (parens are nice) 17:00:03 ihope: i can't really think of a way to do any key input without actually matching the keycodes 17:00:04 X Y=50 50;I->@[Do`{clear;draw$(X,Y)world files Pic;X Y<-X+(),Y+()}]; 17:00:12 will draw a pic and move it around randomly 17:00:26 err 17:00:35 X Y=50 50;I->@[Do`{clear;draw$(X,Y),world files Pic;X Y<-X+(),Y+()}]; 17:00:38 i guess like that 17:01:09 actually, you can get that smaller, i had to add some code to have possibility for key input 17:01:16 but didn't make it 17:01:27 because that'd've been like 20 chars :| 17:02:22 X Y=50 50;I->do`{clear;draw$(X,Y),world files Pic;X Y<-X+(),Y+()}; that is 17:02:40 X Y=50 50;do`{clear;draw$(X,Y),world files Pic;X Y<-X+(),Y+()} that is 17:06:50 k combinator in oklotalk: {A->§(A)} 17:06:53 i'll stop now :) 17:07:08 Eh, you don't seem to be interfering with anything. 17:07:51 true, i'm just afraid all my monologueing will deplete my brain, soon i'll have nothing to say 17:10:14 Hmm... 17:10:50 god i hate it having to search for modules... why can't the ide do that for me :| 17:14:27 it's always 3 hours getting the modules and all to work, 15 minutes to make the actual game 17:15:32 hmm, i wonder when i'll ever be able to shop, when i wake up, shops start closing 17:15:37 i need food 17:16:53 You're being caught up in the nightly recessions? 17:17:18 i give up, please tell me there the python module "helpers" can be found 17:17:32 #python 17:17:34 :-P 17:17:48 Quite annoying that GDP drops like an aerodynamic barbell every night. 17:17:49 good idea 17:17:58 they must love questions like that 17:18:21 What sort of game are you looking to create? 17:18:42 hmm 17:18:51 you have a 2d map 17:18:57 and two points on it 17:19:15 from point A, enemies come and move towards point B 17:19:23 if they get there, you lose. 17:19:31 you can built stuff to kill them 17:19:37 the enemies will not attack 17:19:59 Sounds fun. 17:20:01 this is a game that first arose in multiplayer strategy games i think 17:20:06 well, game idea 17:20:16 and there's lots of flashes about it 17:20:27 i'm trying to make one with a bitter higher mathematical content 17:20:35 so that you can think about your plans on paper 17:20:52 and not just try out random strategies 17:21:09 most those games have one exact way to get millions of points 17:22:26 for example, in one of the games, there is only one gun that can archive at constant price a non constant rise in damage 17:22:29 err 17:22:44 s / non constant rise / n->n*a 17:23:03 it's pretty obvious that is the only way to get *anywhere* 17:23:27 because the hp of the enemies grows... n->n*1, while you only get a constant increase in the money you get outta them 17:23:37 ihope: supply me the correct term, will you? 17:23:51 Um, lemme read... 17:24:04 The term for what? 17:24:05 i lose vocabulary temporarily every time i read new vocabulary 17:24:09 n->n*a 17:24:15 Multiplying n by a? 17:24:18 n->n+a = constant increase 17:24:20 yes 17:24:23 constant factor 17:24:32 or smth 17:24:34 Coefficient? 17:24:37 ah 17:24:50 coefficiential rise in money? 17:25:05 If it's multiplied by a number regularly, that's an exponential increase. 17:25:09 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ... 17:25:18 indeed it is, heh 17:25:33 i did some unbelievable failing there 17:25:43 but hopefully my point was still cathable 17:25:48 *catchable 17:25:53 if i had one, don't remember. 17:28:07 -!- ihope_ has joined. 17:28:12 Remember, I'm retroscient. 17:28:16 Assuming that's a word. 17:28:31 If not, it should be. 17:29:06 But it seems I didn't miss anything anyway. 17:29:18 Did you mean: retracement? 17:31:15 now what's retroscient? 17:31:31 i already know it's *nothing*, but what is it? 17:31:34 Knowing the past. 17:32:56 hmm, that should've been easy to guezz 17:33:45 not that i'd actually have looked at it, once you said you're not sure if it's a word i checked it's meaning without reading it :) 17:39:30 * SimonRC goes 18:31:30 And suddenly, chat falls silent, not to be woken for almost 52 minutes... 18:31:54 By my client, 51 minutes and 59 seconds. 18:39:18 -!- test__ has joined. 18:39:18 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:58:55 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 19:35:43 -!- RodgerTheGreat has changed nick to RodgerTheAfk. 19:36:18 a 19:37:29 test__: eh? 19:37:37 e 19:47:45 Haldo! 19:50:04 i can't compress that to one letter 19:50:13 -!- test__ has changed nick to ehird`. 20:17:58 In letter impossible. 20:18:07 In four words possible. 20:19:00 And two. And not need punctuation. 20:19:12 Except period. 20:19:52 Five words not okay. Try say much. 20:23:02 (And more not okay.) 20:24:20 -!- RodgerTheAfk has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 20:29:13 you know what'd be great? 20:29:26 if i developed different personalities for my nicks 20:35:32 I generally don't notice people's personalities on IRC. 20:35:38 So you'd have to be pretty strong with them. 20:37:15 well, i'd prolly have a looney one and a normal one. 20:37:37 i notice personalities after a while 20:37:47 faster irl though. 20:37:51 * ihope checks some logs 20:39:01 I've been on Sine for what is apparently almost a year. 20:39:19 I still couldn't tell you much of personality. 20:39:35 I could give you Aftran, kaelis and kyevan, I guess. 20:39:54 Oh, and definitely YeTr2. 20:40:04 25 people in there right now. 20:43:47 i can't tell anything about anyone's personality really, but i'd recognize if someone behaved different than usually, i'm pretty sure 20:43:53 i mean, in words 20:44:10 Hmm... 20:44:28 Peraps you could leave out te letter H, like I like to do. 20:45:08 err yes, that's what i mean 20:45:10 *meant 20:45:19 a talent of mine 20:46:10 Wat's wat you meant? 20:46:23 (Mm, leaving out te H in "what" looks a little odd.) 20:46:34 i mean, i'd notice if someone started leaving out letters they usually use 20:46:58 * ihope_ nods 20:47:19 well, wat might look bad because it's pronounced differently 20:47:32 well, so it 'te', but it's such a small word 20:48:47 Well, you also often see people saying "WAT?" wen pretending to be "newbie". 20:49:18 Or maybe some people actually don't know ow to spell "what". 20:49:46 heh, doubt that 20:50:21 Wat about "when"? 20:52:07 I know tat Dylan over in Sine doesn't like wen people do stuff like leaving out all teir Hs. 20:52:23 *all their s 20:52:24 (Or H's, or owever you want to write tat.) 20:52:43 i want uberman's to work :( 20:52:50 in general, it's easier to remember a person and tie personality evaluations to that person when I know what they look like 20:52:52 Leave out tat H instead of tat one? 20:52:57 me too, i need a personal trainer for it :< 20:52:57 bsmntbombdood: wat's not-working about it? 20:52:58 use the face as a "primary key" 20:53:10 bsmntbombdood: come here, we'll do it together ;) 20:53:10 Primary? 20:53:12 ihope_: i failed when i tryed it 20:53:17 bsmntbombdood: failed ow? 20:53:22 overslept 20:53:49 oklopol: riiiight, come to finland? 20:53:55 bsmntbombdood: alarm clock? 20:54:17 ihope_: yeah, and a human 20:54:50 Alarm clock and human and you still failed to wake up? 20:55:22 when I don't know what someone looks like, I tend to cling to my own imaginary versions of people or forum avatars as a "face" 20:55:49 Hmm... 20:55:52 yep 20:56:19 i (while sleeping) verbally convinced the human (twice) to not wake me up 20:56:33 Good job! 20:56:53 Sleepwalking? 20:57:13 not for many years 20:58:12 What would you call that, then? 20:59:25 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 20:59:49 a desperate-for-sleep subconscious? 21:00:19 That phenomenon of talking while asleep? 21:05:07 bsmntbombdood: while i am always serious when proposing stuff like that, it's often better to think of them as jokes 21:05:31 i'd go to finland 21:05:48 i can accommodate you if you come. 21:20:12 RodgerTheGreat, ditto 21:20:32 RodgerTheGreat, my brain reads forum posts as a short movie starring the person's avatar 21:20:41 yeah- definitely 21:20:50 Apparently tat penomenon is indeed someting separate from sleepwalking. 21:21:02 Or maybe not, but Wikipedia as a separate article on it. 21:21:07 people without avatars have their "user info" block left to the post as the speaker. 21:22:01 people with consistent opinions or mannerisms to their writing slowly build up the impressions of personalities and cadences, so eventually you can imagine the person there having a debate or conversation with the other forum-goers 21:22:36 I tend to imagine threads as a bunch of people around a table, with camera cuts between speakers, periodically, and the people acting out emoticons and the like 21:23:29 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:23:38 I think I sort of identify people on IRC by their nick lengths and the first letters. 21:24:07 it's also easy to remember people when you associate a person with a few specific accomplishments or traits you've identified over time 21:24:23 it makes people seem more like individuals than anonymous commentators 21:24:33 Many b, many R, seven o, five i, six l, seven G... 21:24:39 Hmm, indeed. 21:25:08 bsmntbombdood is the bsmnt_bot person, GregorR is the EgoBot person, oklopol is the oklotalk person... 21:25:26 ihope is the dude that does stuff. . . 21:25:38 pikhq is that guy that's totally useless ... 21:25:43 I recognize myself by the fact that I'm me. :-) 21:25:44 ihope is that guy that's totally useless ... 21:25:47 GregorR: Thanks. -_-' 21:25:48 RodgerTheGreat is that guy that's totally useless ... 21:25:51 most of you have a fucking-genius stamp on you. 21:26:00 Cool, I'm pikhq and RodgerTheGreat. 21:26:06 GregorR is that guy that's *really* useless. 21:26:11 Heww yeahs! 21:27:23 we should put together a photogallery or something so we can marvel at one another's ugliness 21:27:23 i'm that guy that's that guy. 21:27:26 -!- wooby has joined. 21:27:36 ^ that's hard to say 21:27:39 =) 21:27:40 ehird`: "He's just this guy, you know?" 21:27:46 "i'm the guy that that that's that that guy." 21:27:50 * pikhq is the Thnikkaman 21:27:56 "Here comes the Thnikkaman!" 21:28:13 ahoy 21:29:04 That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is. 21:31:57 * SimonRC observs it thundering and lightninging. 21:35:44 * SimonRC goes due to lightning. 21:37:33 i love lightning 21:39:53 (RodgerTheGreat) we should put together a photogallery or something so we can marvel at one another's ugliness <<< there is one. 21:40:02 really? 21:40:07 yes 21:40:11 the map in the topic 21:40:20 okay 21:40:22 it's gone 21:40:28 i don't think it's in the topic anymore 21:40:31 anyway, there is a thing like that 21:40:35 bsmntbombdood: noticed 21:40:41 try to find it- I'm interested 21:40:48 guess i should've noticed when i saw it taken off. 21:41:47 oklokok: I may be a genius, but I'm still a virgin ;) 21:42:27 Sukoshi: i'll keep that in mind 21:42:52 Me too. 21:42:53 wait what? 21:43:09 most of you have a fucking-genius stamp on you. 21:43:30 bsmntbombdood: that's what you get for replying long after the fact :-P 21:43:40 Sukoshi: your pic on that map? ;) 21:43:54 oklokok: Heck no. I'm a paranoid geek. 21:44:09 Paranoid geeks... 21:44:15 the best kinda woman 21:44:15 Well, somewhat paranoid. 21:44:20 once you pop one you just can't stop 21:44:26 bsmntbombdood: well said 21:45:48 i get a bit paranoid when school is on, in the summer i stay inside, and the paranoia is needless 21:46:15 they can still get you inside 21:46:46 yes, but i doubt they'd bother the trouble 21:46:58 you never know 21:47:13 well, i like being surprised 21:47:54 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 21:48:07 Sukoshi: actually i have no idea what you were referring to with the virginness 21:48:15 sounds interesting though, so do explain 21:48:22 most of you have a fucking-genius stamp on you. 21:48:32 oh 21:48:34 i didn't get that 21:48:51 the best jokes are the ones i get on the third hearing 21:49:58 Sukoshi: correction: "I may be a virgin, but I'm still a genius" 21:50:02 think positive! 21:50:28 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 21:50:30 :P 21:50:39 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 21:51:23 End Of Lightning. 21:52:23 End Of Funder. 21:52:45 whoa 21:52:47 what's this song 21:52:58 End of Your Mom. 21:54:34 i don't think so 21:55:02 Sukoshi: way to break the pattern :( 21:55:04 Neither does your mom, but too bad :P 21:55:15 lament: I know, I forgot to capitalize of :( 21:55:22 Anyways, back to paper writing. 21:55:35 gaaaah what's this froooom 21:55:38 EOYM doesn't even.. mean anything! 21:56:03 Oh! I didn't realize that! 21:59:13 oooh, right, the theme from the fountain 22:14:27 -!- wooby has quit. 22:34:47 -!- Figs has joined. 22:34:50 howdy 22:35:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:35:17 yes. howdy. 22:39:32 * Figs prods oklopol 22:39:50 ouch 22:39:58 :P 22:40:06 `ello 22:40:17 -!- anschelsc has joined. 22:40:20 'i! 22:40:45 i'm not gonna be here tonite, so do your prodding quick :) 22:40:46 `id `ou `ver `et `round `o `rying `o `lay `y `ong? 22:40:51 -!- anschelsc has quit (Client Quit). 22:41:12 Did you ever get around to trying to play by long? 22:41:18 close, song 22:41:19 Hmm... 22:41:24 my song 22:41:25 Figs: i think i played the left hand, but forgot about it :) 22:41:30 ah 22:41:30 i mean 22:41:32 Indeed. 22:41:37 forgot i was supposed to learn it 22:41:40 oh :P 22:41:59 i promise to do a lot of stuff i actually forget or am too lazy to do :) 22:42:04 i can retry though 22:42:08 hehe, ok 22:42:10 if i can find it... 22:42:11 when you get a chance :P 22:42:14 rofl 22:42:27 I still like the part at 3 in the long story 22:42:30 err, actually i can't, i played it straight from the zip i dl 22:42:35 'd temporarily 22:42:46 hmm or not 22:42:51 you don't have the .zip in temp files? 22:42:53 err yes 22:43:01 windows keeps everything :P 22:43:05 i might, where are those? :) 22:43:21 %tmp% 22:44:11 often that's C:\DOCUME~1\YOURNAME\LOCALS~1\Temp 22:47:15 Huh? 22:47:30 Do you mean /Docume/Yourname/Locals/Temp ? 22:47:49 %tmp% is "No such file or directory" here. ;) 22:48:23 here too 22:48:32 mm, it works on my machine 22:48:42 sometimes it's %temp% 22:49:03 sukoshi, no I mean the \'s 22:49:05 tried that as well 22:49:13 try going to the path manually 22:49:21 (you are on windows, right?) 22:49:28 :P 22:49:31 yes 22:49:32 Windows. Whazzat? :D 22:49:35 :P 22:49:40 ok, go to C 22:49:45 open Documents and settings 22:49:52 click on your account name 22:49:53 I have no /c/ folder. 22:49:54 Figs: i did search them all already :) 22:50:05 * SimonRC larts Sukoshi. 22:50:07 Ok, wry jokes aside ;) 22:50:14 Figs: Have you played with Dolphin Smalltalk? 22:50:20 no 22:50:27 Figs: I hear it's very nice. 22:50:28 Click CLick sqreee!? 22:50:36 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:50:37 Huh? 22:50:43 Dolphin Smalltalk ;) 22:50:51 Figs: i promised myself to go read physics @ 1 am 22:50:52 Click Click Scree? Why I never! 22:50:53 *sigh* 22:50:54 no time to find it now :| 22:51:00 ok 22:51:04 I'll upload it later 22:51:04 Smalltalk has clicking involved, yeah. 22:51:17 SUkoshi... don't make me kill my joke :P 22:51:30 Figs: I don't understand it though ... :P 22:51:39 smalltalk, like chatting 22:51:41 GST also has scripting capabilities. 22:51:44 dolphins chit-chatting 22:51:46 ... 22:51:46 OHHHHHH 22:51:48 :P 22:51:57 * Figs has killed the joke 22:52:04 I never even *think* of conversation when I think about Smalltalk. 22:52:14 ditto 22:52:17 ... 22:52:23 I don't think of Smalltalk. 22:52:32 In either sense. :p 22:52:34 but the whole point of the language is to send little messages to other objects, isn't it? 22:52:49 Yeah. 22:52:59 OH 22:53:04 Wow, so that's where the name came from.... 22:53:08 they are synchronous, confusingly 22:53:24 I think Smalltalk is quite awesome. 22:53:44 Not sure if that's where ti came from or not, but it makes a hell of a lot of sense :P 22:53:48 As opposed to "messages" in almost everything else, which are asynchronous. 22:54:40 Wait, you mean there's the possibility of its not having come from the fact that it's about messages? 22:55:26 ihope_ -- Alan Kay might have been inspired by talking gnomes for all I know. 22:55:39 i'm pretty sure smalltalk's name has no reason. 22:55:43 random letters 22:55:56 does your name have a reason? 22:56:14 mine? it's a term that was used somewhere 22:56:23 Where? 22:56:24 not totally random 22:56:26 but random. 22:56:33 Figs: long story 22:56:34 my name is random, but not random. 22:56:37 The song? 22:56:38 :P 22:56:46 err no :) 22:56:49 ^.^ 22:56:50 it's ok 22:57:08 ¬ <- negation! i found it! 22:57:08 didn't you say you needed to study physics? 22:57:13 err 22:57:20 [00:59] ! 22:57:23 :D 22:57:26 Your name is arbitrary? 22:57:39 who is 'you' 22:57:50 -!- Sukoshi has quit ("Leaving"). 22:57:53 heh, that's fun to say 22:57:59 "Who is 'you'?" 22:58:01 :D 22:58:03 oklopol. 22:58:19 you is oklopol? stop changing nicks on me so much! :P 22:58:27 Yes, I is. 22:58:30 :D 22:58:35 Isn't you also oklopol? 22:58:43 ihope_: quite random, yes 22:58:45 me isn't also not oklopol? 22:59:09 it doesn't in anyway relate to my personality or anything 22:59:14 Maybe you is also not oklopol. I doesn't know. 22:59:24 Good luck FIGuring out how my name relates. 22:59:36 oklopol is conworld / substance with an utterly bitter taste 22:59:36 Pff. Figures. 22:59:39 :D 22:59:48 Is that the meaning of "oklopol"? 22:59:58 conworld? 23:00:03 Figs: i assume you like smoking sigarrettes 23:00:06 no 23:00:07 (Lame Shakespeare reference.) 23:00:07 *cigarrettes 23:00:23 I don't smoke. 23:00:32 Figs: i know that's not the reason, but it's a good way to remember your personality 23:00:36 to have a face on you 23:00:40 O.o 23:00:44 i'm smokin! 23:00:47 smokin hot! 23:00:48 tough guy in a room full of smoke 23:00:58 ...with a cigarrette 23:01:02 that's you, Figs 23:01:07 :) 23:01:08 o.o 23:01:11 eh? :P 23:01:16 I doubt it :P 23:01:20 i love tobacco <3 23:01:28 never smoked it regularly though 23:01:31 just the smell 23:01:32 uh 23:01:36 I can't stand the smell of smoke :S 23:01:42 oh, it's 1 am isn't it? 23:01:48 and car exhaust, you gotta love that as well 23:01:48 cigarettes smell terrible, but cigars smell good sometimes 23:01:58 I don't really like car exhaust 23:02:00 Figs: shh, i haven't noticed yet. 23:02:06 but I do like the smell of some types of mold. 23:02:10 ... 23:02:12 heh :) 23:02:18 like in old stairways 23:02:25 i like all smells 23:02:30 because i rarely smell anything 23:02:36 there's only 44 quadratic residues modulo 256 23:02:39 it's always nice to smell something for once 23:02:52 I smell. 23:03:00 bsmntbombdood: you proved that just now? 23:03:03 (have fun with that one ^.^) 23:03:26 i didn't prove it 23:03:30 double meaning ^.^ 23:03:36 did you google it? 23:03:41 or guess? 23:04:00 oh it's one already :O 23:04:04 i tested it 2**16 times 23:04:05 i'm going now 23:04:07 * oklopol is going now 23:04:09 ok 23:04:13 bye oklopol 23:04:18 * oklopol is gone 23:04:45 is Smalltalk where $nameslikethis came from? 23:05:17 oh no 23:05:21 just my misreading ;) 23:05:39 Figs: I think that's a Bourne shell-ism. 23:05:54 ah 23:06:01 could be 23:06:47 can someone explain lambda calculus to me in 10 minutes or less? 23:06:55 just the syntax 23:07:30 The syntax? 23:07:36 yesir 23:07:52 like \x.(x+1) 23:07:56 what does the . mean? 23:08:10 Seperates arguments from function contents. 23:08:20 how do you denote multiple args? 23:08:28 \x.\y.E 23:08:34 Currying. 23:08:59 The function takes one parameter and returns another function, which takes the other. 23:09:02 so a lambda function can only have one input, basically? 23:09:08 Yup. 23:09:09 oki 23:09:11 *ok 23:09:23 that makes a hell of a lot of sense really 23:10:05 reduces the whole bloody issue of having to keep track of the number of args, somewhat 23:10:11 Yup. 23:10:20 ...Well, what do you mean? 23:10:37 well, I mean like in C++ 23:10:53 a etc... 23:10:57 * ihope_ nods 23:11:00 That's only an issue when you can have overloaded functions. 23:11:07 yeah 23:11:10 no 23:11:18 it's an issue when you need to store functions 23:11:25 \ab.E is short for \a.\b.E 23:11:53 (lambda '(a b) (E)) is Lisp for \ab.E. :p 23:12:04 no it's not 23:12:08 well, I mean, in C++ if you try to call a 2 var function with 1 var 23:12:11 it just fucks up 23:12:20 (lambda (a b) E) is 23:12:35 what's the `? 23:12:37 Oh. 23:12:53 well, whatever 23:13:03 I don't care right now :) 23:13:07 I'm reading about smalltalk 23:13:15 [:x | x+1] 23:13:17 I like that 23:13:33 {x {+ $x 1}} 23:13:43 ? 23:13:58 Tcl. 23:14:01 oh 23:14:23 [:x | [:y | x+y] ] 23:14:27 can you do that in smalltalk? 23:15:37 personally, I would consider that to be a relationship 23:15:41 but something like 23:15:49 [:x| foo(x) ] 23:16:06 (not in Smalltalk any more) 23:16:11 I consider an 'action' 23:16:16 since it's doing something 23:16:28 the actions a program can take are ultimately sequential... 23:16:42 Welcome to imperative programming. 23:16:52 actually, I'm going the other way 23:16:57 towards functional 23:17:12 a program ultimately evaluates to a list of actions, doesn't it? 23:17:25 that's why monads work 23:17:28 in haskell, etc 23:17:35 because it forces it to be sequential 23:17:51 passing whatever it needs along 23:17:58 or did I miss the point? 23:18:26 I wonder if I can make a truely grey language 23:18:46 right in between functional and imperative programming 23:20:10 Call it Plof. 23:20:18 why? 23:20:28 because that's an anagram of flop? 23:20:35 Because that's the name of that language. 23:20:45 Figs: scheme! 23:21:11 I don't really like Lisp 23:21:17 I mean, I like the ideas behind it 23:21:25 but I don't much like the way it's written 23:21:33 * Figs is a product of C-like syntax 23:23:15 if anything I'm starting to like Haskell, but its syntax still gives me headaches trying to remember 23:23:54 * ehird` likes APL syntax!! 23:23:57 :) 23:23:58 APL? 23:24:28 http://catpad.net/michael/APLLife.gif 23:24:35 APL = Array Programming Language OR A Programming Language 23:24:36 K = (x,y):{x}; 23:24:36 'A Programming Language'? 23:24:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_%28programming_language%29 23:24:42 yesh 23:24:46 reading 23:25:01 i particularly like how it is UTTERLY UNREADABLE 23:25:15 I'd say Plof is, well, functional programming for a C coder. 23:25:22 haha, what the bloody fuck! 23:25:26 ;P 23:25:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:25:47 (∼R∈R∘.×R)/R←1↓⍳R 23:25:54 prime numbers =D 23:26:00 I can't find plof 23:26:04 S = (x,y,z):{x(z,y(z));}; 23:26:12 http://www.codu.org/plof2/ 23:27:11 I = (x):{S(K, K, x);}; 23:27:21 your APL is killing my mind. 23:27:29 apl is good at that 23:27:49 who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to get rid of the normally type-able symbols? 23:28:04 it wasn't really that 23:28:13 GregorR: Hey, I just proved Plof Turing-complete, by way of combinatory logic! 23:28:13 it was that the normally type-able symbols weren't commonly standardized 23:28:18 it being 1964 and all. 23:28:46 orly? 23:29:22 even though the qwerty keyboard was patented in 1868? 23:29:47 uh, that's hardly the same thing 23:30:02 that patent didn't have { or } or @ or # i'd be willing to bet 23:30:10 or < or > or | 23:30:10 Sure, but you neglect things such as the space cadet keyboards. 23:30:25 apl uses spaces...although sparingly 23:30:48 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/UnderwoodKeyboard.jpg 23:31:16 exactly 23:31:37 so... uh, why not just design a language with letters and english punctuation then? 23:32:05 I'm pretty sure it have at least : ; " ' , ( ), . ? ! etc 23:32:22 that's not enough to represent all apl operators 23:32:25 otherwise it wouldn't be very useful to type on. 23:32:46 see above 23:32:47 you can use words as operators 23:32:58 then it wouldn't be apl 23:33:01 :P 23:33:09 gripping news: some language's designs are not the same as the norm 23:33:24 Crikey! 23:33:29 :P 23:33:38 and how many people still use APL? 23:34:02 quite a few. 23:34:07 ;) 23:34:17 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Index_typewriter.jpg 23:35:12 here's some news for you, keyboards aren't even standard today :) 23:35:26 if you go to parts of europe or asia, they have very different keyboards 23:35:40 * Figs points out C's trigraph system 23:35:58 and it got replaced for good reason :D 23:36:41 although, I guess within certain areas, they are a *bit* more standardized because of the ISO/IEC 23:38:03 :S 23:38:09 why does the ISO always want my money :( 23:38:15 jackasses! 23:38:16 :P 23:38:22 Figs: The trigraph system was never "replaced". 23:38:36 sure, it's still there if you want to use it... 23:38:37 It's just merely been stuck in as of 1989. 23:38:53 but how many people still use it? 23:39:04 I don't want to pay CHF 42 to read a 125 kb document 23:39:12 Same amount that used it when it was added by the ISO standardisation committee: 0. 23:39:33 (note that the original C language didn't have trigraphs at all) 23:40:02 I don't think the number is 0, or I'd have never heard of it 23:40:21 Fine. The number is about half of the IOCCC entrants. 23:40:41 *shrug* 23:40:51 IANAS 23:41:00 I am not a statistician! :D 23:43:13 the trigraphs are there for people who are using an EBCDIC 23:43:22 (it deserves the indefinite article) 23:44:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/JumpFuck nobody has comments? 23:44:14 Figs: sexps are yummy 23:44:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 23:44:25 Tclexps are love. 23:44:31 http://www.squidi.net/comic/amd/comic/amd1-018.gif 23:44:36 got to love that logic :) 23:44:58 sexps? 23:45:03 sex-pee! 23:45:07 :S 23:45:12 bah 23:45:26 ehird`: Want an implementation? 23:45:47 pikhq, Sure -- it's not exactly hard to implement, but yeah 23:47:43 the "continuations" are really just jump-points, right? 23:47:55 they do not save any data at all 23:48:13 SimonRC: yes they do 23:48:39 surely the tape should not change, bsmntbombdood 23:48:56 (from pre-continuation-call to post-) 23:49:09 that makes it useless for functions if you have e.g. a stack used 23:49:21 no, but calling a continuation changes the tape 23:49:48 that's useless for functions then 23:49:55 if you have a data stack, then it'd be trashed 23:50:07 no... 23:50:16 you have to pass the argument as the argument to the continuation 23:50:27 there not continuations unless they save and restore the tape 23:50:32 remember, cells are unbounded 23:50:45 a continuation call allows you to pass one cell 23:50:55 one cell can contain an arbitrary amount of information 23:51:02 yeah... 23:51:05 it's up to you to pack it of course 23:51:06 just about 23:51:08 I'll bbl 23:51:10 maybe 23:51:13 buhbye 23:51:22 * Figs disappears into the night 23:51:31 -!- Figs has left (?). 23:51:44 IMO the tape should not change 23:51:45 you get exponential runtimes in the size of you data, rather than the cubic and quartic one usually expects from BF 23:51:47 therefore jumpfuck continuations are "call/cc complete" 23:52:04 SimonRC: what? 23:52:22 the point of & and % is to make compiling into JF easier. having to pack values into a single argument is not easier 23:52:34 uuuuh 23:52:37 compiling into JF from what? 23:52:44 ...scheme? 23:52:44 they are gotos, not continuations then 23:52:54 passing an n-bit number to a continuation takes O(2^n) time 23:53:18 you're complaining that a BF variant has efficiency issues? 23:53:28 doin most things with an n-bit number only takes O(n^3) or O(n^4) time in BF 23:53:32 lament, from anything 23:53:41 & and % make for very easy functions 23:53:52 if you want to pass 8 bytes around, you will be waiting forever 23:53:54 i don't think the current specification is ideal 23:54:00 but i can't think of anything better 23:54:10 lament: what else would it be? 23:54:18 how about a stack of stacks? 23:54:28 for example, instead of one cell as an argument, it could pass the entire rest of tape 23:54:36 that is, all the cells to the right of the pointer 23:54:47 and keep only the ones to the left 23:54:49 how about a length cell followed by that many data cells? 23:54:57 SimonRC: too contrived 23:55:06 http://esolangs.org/wiki/JumpFuck byebye references to continuations, hello jump points 23:55:12 SimonRC: that's something Pascal would have, not Brainfuck :) 23:55:12 noooo 23:55:18 that's stupid if it's just goto 23:55:23 it's useful 23:55:34 not really, goto is easy to implement in bf 23:55:37 ehird`: that's lame 23:55:53 hmm 23:56:12 lament, the amount of hackery required to implement sane functions when the tape gets scrambled is not acceptable 23:56:23 sorry? 23:56:37 how about something simpler... 23:56:38 GregorR did it 23:56:40 well, that's why i'm not using continuations 23:56:53 instead of fucking around with contniuations, just add a second tape 23:57:00 i thought you wanted brainfuck with continuations... 23:57:12 that's what I wanted 23:57:12 that makes compilation of many things so much simpler 23:57:16 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:58:42 continuations are way cool, goto is just bleh 23:59:41 and worrying about speed isn't for brainfuckers