< 1185149063 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1185149069 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1185149886 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1185149938 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triple quotes... < 1185149959 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do those include line breaks and '/"? < 1185149966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, for that matter, ''/""? < 1185150163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1185150184 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple-quoting in Python has no escapes, IIRC. < 1185150245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has escapes < 1185150249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for " and such < 1185150737 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, my mistake < 1185150742 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I do not include those < 1185150761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1185150782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :triple quotes include linefeeds and '/". < 1185150817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i missed something completely here... < 1185150877 0 :Figs!n=Figs@ip72-220-174-159.sd.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1185150884 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1185151089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo < 1185151100 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1185151114 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ever get around to working out how to play the rest of that song? :D < 1185151138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argghhghreuiahguh < 1185151145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time is running out 8| < 1185151151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... no that is. < 1185151157 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o ok < 1185151180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to look at it if i happen to remember it at daytime :) < 1185151192 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol ok.... < 1185151907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1185152693 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzz < 1185156073 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1185156793 0 :Figs!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1185157174 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided I wan to do a graphic-novel adaptation of "The Feeling of Power" < 1185157183 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*want to do < 1185159224 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1185159319 0 :Sukoshi`!n=Sukoshi@user-11fa4t3.dsl.mindspring.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1185159395 0 :Sukoshi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1185159657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesa. < 1185160348 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@c-76-27-232-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1185160431 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DARE YOU TIME ME < 1185160434 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU BASTARD UNDESKTOP < 1185160447 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohwait, different channel ;) < 1185160632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day i'll do that to < 1185160656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something totally weird and say i accidentally said it on the wrong channel < 1185160671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but i'm playing my cards savingly) < 1185160672 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that was just the wrong channel :P < 1185160676 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Received a CTCP TIME from undesktop < 1185160676 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HOW DARE YOU TIME ME < 1185160715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to believe that... but anyway, i'm pretty sure people usually just fake it. < 1185160774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hey, if i haven't, to my recollection, said anything on the wrong channel, it isn't possible < 1185160783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185160790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that recollection didn't quite fit there < 1185160795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about which i'm sorry < 1185160843 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1185160900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are quite right in laughing about that, it was indeed funny < 1185160907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i feel sleepy now. < 1185160913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels HP'd
< 1185160926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hit points? < 1185160935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harry Potter, not hit points. < 1185160954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so gonna read that book and like it. < 1185160966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anti-HP folk: shut up, please. I'm allowed to enjoy things that are childish in addition to mature things. < 1185161028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? so you actually reading that? < 1185161099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read every hp like 4 times, i'm not judging, though the 'actually' might suggest differently. < 1185161105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a question < 1185161109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a mat can be used as a hat < 1185161128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading the latest book
< 1185161144 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone around me at work is HP-obsessed :P < 1185161148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've had enough time to read HP7 4 times? Dude. . . No life. < 1185161167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually read them once, and then wait until I'm in the mood for a book-a-day habit to reread. < 1185161186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually i've read 2 fo them 4 times < 1185161187 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read a novel-type book in ... < 1185161190 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm < 1185161190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*four < 1185161193 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many years I don't remember. < 1185161200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only novels i've read < 1185161206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, novel-type < 1185161213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the official term. < 1185161218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is wrong with you? < 1185161225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Both* of you, that is. < 1185161226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185161236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read *some*, just very little. < 1185161244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember what and when < 1185161244 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads at about the same frequency most people watch TV
< 1185161258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm watching friends now. < 1185161262 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers to rot his brain with television.
< 1185161293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't do TV much
< 1185161345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many good books, too much good music, too many good webcomics, etc. < 1185161351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, too much stuff to code. ;) < 1185161385 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just sticks 100% with coding :P
< 1185161428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whatcha guys been programming this week? < 1185161441 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSSS shtuff. < 1185161443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less than me, i'll assume :) < 1185161449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i guess your time zone right < 1185161461 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1185161478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut is time is there ? < 1185161482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. < 1185161564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting back to sanity before I dare touch my Brainfuck game. . . < 1185161586 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: /ctcp GregorR-L TIME < 1185161608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...will you yell at me :< < 1185161613 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1185161621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185161635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why not at me? < 1185161648 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was in the middle of a CTCP-war with undesktop at the time :P < 1185161680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seem to lack some skill again. < 1185161703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to get me some o that sweet yelling, but noooo < 1185161706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1185161716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll do pikhq < 1185161733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185161735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not registered < 1185161746 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it. ;) < 1185161760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess YOU ARE NOT REGISTERED as a response *could've* made my understand that on the first 10 tries. < 1185161771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, we're all different. < 1185161802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185161823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems i'm seriously behind you in this week's coding amount < 1185161836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done about ½ hours of programming < 1185161853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any chance you broke your hands during the week or smth? < 1185161877 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of you, in a ctcp fight < 1185162008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1185162010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pervert < 1185162018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't resist. < 1185162037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:39 [freenode] oklopol [n=ville@194.251.103.33] requested unknown CTCP FINGER from pikhq: < 1185162041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naughty. < 1185162077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1185162095 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll finger YOUR CTCP < 1185162105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1185162110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is vibrating... < 1185162125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anymore < 1185162130 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bow chicka bow wow < 1185162149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ppl, what's donnie darko about? the movie? < 1185162158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to know about your dildo with a dying battery. < 1185162160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched it yesterday, but it was in spanish < 1185162164 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK THIS MOVIE MAKES NO SENSE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1185162181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had a dildo < 1185162185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've bought one < 1185162189 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1185162193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make a nice conversation starter < 1185162199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said I *don't* need to know about it. < 1185162204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185162205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1185162207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1185162212 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1185162227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: that's what i thought, but i thought it was the language < 1185162269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched hypercube in french 3 times before i found the english one < 1185162277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :le libercube < 1185162311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great, just a bunch of rooms, traps and people killing each other and talking nonsense < 1185162350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked the english one too, but it lacked the atmosphere < 1185166198 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1185167537 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1167902763.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1185168788 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@222-154-141-161.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1185169792 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-37-9.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1185170338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1185174968 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"WeeChat 0.2.5" < 1185177599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1185177600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1185177622 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Sorry to tell you this, but after that one positive, I've had three people tell me the avatar is scary :P < 1185178201 0 :toBogE!n=toBogE@125-238-37-9.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1185178201 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bot. < 1185178206 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me is a bot < 1185178209 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1185178647 0 :toBogE!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1185179255 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1185182579 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!" < 1185182594 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-37-9.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1185182955 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ... *gasp* wait for it .... I think ... I'm switching to Scheme over CL. < 1185184755 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Now if you will excuse me, I have a giant ball of oil to throw out my window" < 1185186774 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night all < 1185186922 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"three word story: http://greasemonkey.nonlogic.org/mpnp/index.php?docname=three-word-story" < 1185196567 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host115-89-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1185199009 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1185203486 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1185205087 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip72-200-73-175.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1185205220 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1185206934 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-210.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1185207270 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: aw. uncanny valley, eh? < 1185208410 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to interpret the meaning of "uncanny valley" and fails :P
< 1185208742 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Robotics/Art/Animation term < 1185208747 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley < 1185208765 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be better classed as psychological < 1185208780 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those three areas I mentioned are chiefly where it comes into consideration < 1185209157 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1185209514 0 :blahbot`!n=blahbot`@user-514f618c.l4.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1185209970 0 :ihope__!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1185209993 0 :ihope__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1185210484 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://programming.reddit.com/info/17l64/comments/c17oew <-- Thoughts everyone? < 1185210507 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone who knows/has experienced CL/Scheme anyways. < 1185210599 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm a Nonlogician, so my stance ought to be pretty clear on prebuilt libraries < 1185210642 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's a post meant primarily for application coders. I'm asking whether you *think* CL has more NIH than Scheme does. < 1185210650 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've experienced CL! < 1185210665 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go back to your Haskell, Bulb! < 1185210670 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1185210673 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite sure, though. < 1185210791 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The Chicken scene has grown quite a bit since I last visited it. < 1185210870 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-210.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1185211006 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wished SLIME worked for Scheme :( < 1185212030 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1185212030 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1185212204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1185212538 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1185213100 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slime is for cl only.. < 1185213299 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didja read the article, ehird` ? < 1185213331 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. It shouldn't be too hard to port the easier parts of SWANK (i.e. zooming functions to the REPL, zooming files to the REPL, etc.) < 1185213412 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. I just did a 45 minute shower. < 1185213498 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kept you interested? < 1185213556 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Various forms of self-maintenance. < 1185213572 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do love water particles in large amounts, like rain < 1185213585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shower's just quite pathetic compared to that < 1185213587 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't stand rain :P < 1185213601 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah maintenance, you mean like cleaning yourself and shit? < 1185213621 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(figurative shit) < 1185213628 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1185213630 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like fun < 1185213635 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is *nod nod*. < 1185213656 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, off to my 2 hour waste of tim... errr Art History course o/ < 1185213670 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185213691 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought this was the start of a very fruitful conversation < 1185213692 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hf < 1185213703 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish it'd rain < 1185213731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually couldn't do one of the exercises in this book :| < 1185213768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a math exercise assuming i know how to prove by induction, which i never bothered to learn < 1185213780 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda wish i had. < 1185215355 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is raining plenty here < 1185215363 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are getting flooded in England. < 1185215374 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i envy them < 1185215385 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the Jet Stream has moved due to El Niño. < 1185215429 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one helluva ninja. < 1185215439 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's spanish for ninja) < 1185215587 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.. Is there a blend of OOP that uses generic functions, not messages, but is prototype-based? < 1185215644 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks...
< 1185215658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl? < 1185215691 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build it on top of any OO system with a customisable dispatch policy < 1185215701 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, perl is anything-based, so that's cheating) < 1185215713 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Lisp ones, the funny Python one, and Factor's one < 1185215857 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@209.248.125.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1185215874 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything-based? < 1185215905 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185215910 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-paradigm < 1185215917 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1185215917 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess is what i was looking for < 1185216018 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Python's multimethods are the explanation for why __call__() rocks.) < 1185216105 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-055-129.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1185216167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1185217694 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr how do i do 5**3 in scheme? < 1185217741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail-recursively! < 1185217783 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: pow? exp? ^? **? < 1185217791 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just (* 5 5 5) < 1185218163 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expt < 1185218227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err true, i can do integer exponentiation easily... but i can't say i can remember how to do real number exponents just like that < 1185218247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i could if i played a bit with e^n < 1185218256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a^b = exp(b*log(a)) < 1185218318 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thank you for showing me i was an idiot in not seeing that right away :P < 1185218338 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also real thanks for telling me that) < 1185218398 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it'd need something sick and yellow < 1185218895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may need something sick if a is negative (namely complex numbers) < 1185218963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1185219026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is zero you will have to be vewy vewy caweful < 1185219037 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because? < 1185219094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is only defined if b is an integer >= 0, preferably non-zero < 1185219149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b integer is also a good idea if a is negative, unless you want to consider complex branches < 1185219165 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-a)^b = (-1)^b * a^b? < 1185219208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a is positive that is a reasonable assumption < 1185219246 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-1)^b = (e^(i*pi))^pi = (e^(i*pi^2))... and i have no idea what i'm going for. < 1185219255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1185219267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you still need to carefully know what you are doing with complex branches < 1185219268 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that conversion possibly be useful... < 1185219284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do? doesn't (-a)^b = (-1)^b * a^b apply with complex numbers? < 1185219289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1185219309 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-a = -1*a even with complexes... no? < 1185219329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that there are multiple values, and you cannot always choose them consistently < 1185219331 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a*b)^n = a^n * b^n... or? if it is, also with complexes? < 1185219336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185219359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, e^(2*pi*n*i) = 1 for all integers n < 1185219374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any log can have 2*pi*n*i added to it < 1185219410 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? wait... < 1185219415 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185219425 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(getting process on the go) < 1185219438 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185219445 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it. < 1185219450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens to give multiple values for a^b if b is not an integer. < 1185219473 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... why did your equation give just one? < 1185219476 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185219480 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gave the only real < 1185219482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1185219488 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1185219489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a positive, yes < 1185219490 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not real < 1185219496 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real < 1185219509 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean yes real < 1185219511 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1185219511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log is multivalued too < 1185219527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider it as the inverse of exp on complex numbers < 1185219556 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... basically for a>0 you give just the real answer because it's the most obvious one, but when a<0, none of the results is real, so you can't choose a *right* answer? < 1185219617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less. you choose a "branch" of the log function, but there is no way of doing that such that (a1*a2)^b = a1^b * a2^b always holds. < 1185219703 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1185219717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, ((-1)^b)^2 cannot be 1 always < 1185219750 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for b !E N? < 1185219764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, for non integers it won't? < 1185219797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, (-1)^b = exp(b*pi*i*(2*n+1)) for some n < 1185219810 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, as interesting as this is, i was actually just looking for the expt function in lisp ;) < 1185219819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not in a hurry if you wanna explain < 1185219821 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185219833 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1185219833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if b is irrational that has no chance of being 1 < 1185219837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185219855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a fraction you might get "lucky" < 1185219884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1 or -1 < 1185219912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that fraction contain complex numbers? < 1185219922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it the fraction of complex numbers that are reals? < 1185219931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a fraction of two integers < 1185219940 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185219942 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1185219954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a rational number < 1185219973 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes, i actually happened to know what it is :P < 1185219984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185219986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you would need b = m/(2*n+1) < 1185220019 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185220092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, back to your lisp :) < 1185220146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1185220162 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was nice to have something complex to think about for a minute. < 1185220208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book is kinda noobity noob (though i'm in the first part) < 1185220208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always stretch your brain daily, eh? < 1185220212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1185220260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it scheme or common lisp (or even emacs lisp)? < 1185220296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for scheme at least, i am pretty sure the whole language definition is online. < 1185220313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you need to look something up. < 1185220357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp is one of those pesky standards that sometimes ask you to pay for a copy, i think. < 1185220375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from being huge, i have heard. < 1185220390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now i am monologuing, just like you :) < 1185220457 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme < 1185220472 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :P < 1185220492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like a documentation, but couldn't find a pretty one < 1185220539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/ < 1185220594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there actually is another standard for scheme which _is_ such a pesky pay-for one < 1185220609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most people use the free one < 1185220752 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((a (lambda (b) b))) (a 4)) <<< why isn't that 4? < 1185220815 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask @ #scheme? good idea, einstein. *clap* < 1185220828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1185220836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i tested it with guile < 1185220860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a broken interpreter? < 1185220863 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. i'm using DrScheme :) < 1185220884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i think i have heard good things about that one < 1185220916 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185220922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... confusing < 1185220940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also vaguely recall it has different levels you can set, and some features are disabled at lower levels < 1185220967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be strange if it made allowed programs actually behave _differently_. < 1185220999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that expression give you? and is that the actual expression you tried? < 1185221041 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah, apparently the spanish harry potter won't be out till 2008 < 1185221045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1185221097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (let ((a (lambda (b) b))) (a 4)) < 1185221097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1185221107 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have "lazy scheme" on < 1185221116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1185221143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it. < 1185221165 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185221168 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :promises = lazy < 1185221177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force (delay X)) -> X < 1185221185 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if lazy scheme, then X -> (delay X) for most X < 1185221220 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i force that to evaluate ? < 1185221228 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe use (force ...) < 1185221228 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force X) < 1185221230 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1185221233 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn off lazy scheme < 1185221236 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth do you want lazy scheme < 1185221238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1185221240 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses lazy scheme < 1185221246 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy + impure = pain < 1185221250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how DARE you use lazy scheme < 1185221250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you actually want to try out laziness, turn it off < 1185221255 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop using lazy scheme RIGHT NOW! < 1185221258 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force X) doesn't work, i tried that already < 1185221268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a certain animosity :) < 1185221273 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, yes! < 1185221274 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185221276 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185221286 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness should only be used in pure things < 1185221292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns lazy scheme at the stake er, steak
< 1185221302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :steak? < 1185221303 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i now realize what my problem is in not finding the normal scheme interpreter in the options. < 1185221306 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, steak < 1185221316 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just looking at the options menu's lower part. < 1185221322 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1185221325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use scheme? nobody uses scheme! < 1185221326 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with my brain, really. < 1185221333 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use perl! < 1185221337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you breathe? nobody breathes! < 1185221350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need more complex numbers! < 1185221356 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use PL/I! < 1185221369 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want complex numbers check out Haskell. < 1185221382 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a PhD to understand its numerical types < 1185221388 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not quite < 1185221389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is go tc if you interpret it as a multiway system? < 1185221392 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game go < 1185221397 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185221404 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: a multiway system? < 1185221418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a multiway system? < 1185221427 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone written "hello world" in wapr yet? < 1185221439 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka "jumping to -1 is exciting") < 1185221441 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1185221449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: but Complex Integer is not allowed in Haskell :( < 1185221476 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if nobody knows what wapr is, then http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jumping_to_-1_is_exciting may help < 1185221484 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr code makes blahbot run it < 1185221484 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[61, 73, 62, 63, 71, 59, 69, 63, 77, 60, 70, 59, 66, 60, 73, 78, 76, 79, 72, 67, 78] < 1185221486 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1185221505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have read that go with arbitrary (finite) board size is PSPACE-complete. < 1185221505 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiway... you have multiple rules and you apply all of them, each in a separate thread < 1185221511 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1185221513 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also infinite go < 1185221594 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er, it isn't? < 1185221596 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i think go with an infinite board is semidecidable < 1185221604 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails to understand the # command
< 1185221606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: what? < 1185221617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yay, vagueness. < 1185221622 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Complex Integer isn't allowed? < 1185221622 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course. You must be able to divide complex numbers < 1185221635 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, read the stack description careully < 1185221644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i assume you don't know if you didn't know what a multiway system is... unless that's just not the right term < 1185221655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i tell you # is called "grab" or "pull" that might help too < 1185221658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: they should be gaussian integers < 1185221661 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I see. < 1185221674 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what happens if the TOS is 0 0? < 1185221679 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go and chess iirc are both semidecidable on an infinite board... does that automatically make them tc? < 1185221697 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, depends < 1185221707 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if s = [0, 0], error. if s = [X, 0, 0] then [X] < 1185221719 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there 2 secial integers rather than one? < 1185221731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Complex is defined with RealFloat restriction on the elements. < 1185221732 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, because one is source and one is dest. < 1185221742 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, this is the implementation of it: < 1185221742 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a new Complex, then? < 1185221769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it's just an annoying consequence of Haskell's numerical class hierarchy < 1185221772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: you can do that just fine < 1185221781 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell numbers are screwed up < 1185221790 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: PASTEBIN! < 1185221796 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i am < 1185221806 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screwed up in that it doesn't automatically convert from one to anotheR? < 1185221813 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1185221818 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.textmate.org/81503 < 1185221818 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't < 1185221825 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's # < 1185221830 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwed up in that it is hard to understand < 1185221834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: tc or _weaker_, i assume < 1185221843 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes them hard to understand? < 1185221875 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only thing the Real class ads to its subclasses is a function to convert to a Rational number, which is the main thing that Real numbers *cannot* do < 1185221889 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: there are too many for a start < 1185221896 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o at least, there are lots < 1185221905 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are enough that I can;t remember them all < 1185221940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the class hierarchy is based on generalizing the number formats used in computers, rather than on sound mathematical structures < 1185221948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1185221969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you try to _add_ a well-known sound mathematical structure, you cannot fit it in properly. < 1185221974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, do you understand now :) < 1185221980 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, just about < 1185221985 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a couple more examples < 1185221999 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# is basically the Turing operator, being that it makes it TC without me having to implement long things like DROP, SWAP, ROT, etc. < 1185222010 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are no examples because it's pretty much not known < 1185222026 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could get very weird in some cases < 1185222042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the choice of "other characters" is not arbitary - it's just to keep it in the displayable chars range, and it starts at 0 one place after the commands < 1185222048 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The commands are from the start of displayable ascii) < 1185222067 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see *that* < 1185222069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually, basing it on sound mathematical structures would probably mean even _more_ classes, so harder for anyone but mathematicians. < 1185222078 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, hey, just spilling everything about it :P < 1185222091 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr & < 1185222091 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0] < 1185222092 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: numbers are a PITA < 1185222097 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr ' < 1185222098 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] < 1185222105 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr '%" < 1185222105 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1, -1] < 1185222111 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185222118 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interp behaves weirdly on undefined situations like that < 1185222122 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr &'%" < 1185222122 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 1, -1] < 1185222127 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr &' < 1185222127 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 1] < 1185222133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH. < 1185222148 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr '"'"'! < 1185222154 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, uh, the exit program < 1185222155 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185222163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current system is probably a please-noone compromise < 1185222172 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr &&'! < 1185222176 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr < 1185222178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's.. the infinite loop < 1185222178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%ps < 1185222178 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0. wapr &&'! < 1185222179 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. wapr '"'"'! < 1185222179 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. ps < 1185222182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%kill 0 < 1185222183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%kill 1 < 1185222184 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%ps < 1185222184 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0. wapr '"'"'! < 1185222185 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. ps < 1185222187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1185222188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%kill 0 < 1185222189 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%ps < 1185222189 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0. ps < 1185222191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1185222199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just %wapr doesn't match the regexp... < 1185222202 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs an argument ;) < 1185222205 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr < 1185222217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr < 1185222219 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr foo < 1185222220 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[64, 73, 73, -23] < 1185222225 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr wiat < 1185222227 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do that < 1185222231 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1185222236 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, really < 1185222237 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1185222239 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr foo < 1185222239 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[64, 73, 73] < 1185222247 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used colour codes < 1185222247 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185222251 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must've used - yeah, thought something like that < 1185222259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"%wapr ^C01,02foo^O" < 1185222265 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1185222269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colour is rarely used < 1185222285 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr hmm < 1185222285 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[66, 71, 71] < 1185222293 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1185222303 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it thinks that underscore is nothing < 1185222309 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what underscore < 1185222311 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything < 1185222314 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see "%wapr hmm" < 1185222320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, /me checks logs - so does the bot < 1185222336 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I ment "invert" < 1185222341 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185222342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr hmm < 1185222342 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[66, 71, 71] < 1185222349 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that sort of thing is undefined behaviour < 1185222351 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;s underscore < 1185222360 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underline? < 1185222367 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, underline < 1185222382 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's displayable ascii, and operations fitting the stack pictures in the spec, that is defined < 1185222385 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else, can go boom < 1185222402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation does no error checking, so it does go boom :) < 1185222413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think wapr is TC < 1185222417 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh God. < 1185222419 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it has all the properties of a TC language < 1185222421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, what < 1185222428 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my girlfriend found my esolangs userpage. < 1185222431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: this channel censors color codes, only you see the ones you write < 1185222435 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, haha < 1185222438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament can turn them off < 1185222447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1185222454 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1185222509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well now you will _really_ find out if you are made for each other < 1185222512 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I think you have a bug. < 1185222521 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack.insert_at(stack[d], stack[-s]) < 1185222523 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1185222527 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack.insert_at(stack[-d], stack[-s]) < 1185222530 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I read the spec right < 1185222534 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, hmm yes you are right < 1185222535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you! < 1185222540 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%reload < 1185222541 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reloaded. < 1185222542 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1185222568 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do so love %reload, %quit, alt-tab, up, enter was so tedious :P < 1185222617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: use more semicolons. < 1185222633 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i probably should < 1185222634 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more, that is. Or a period. < 1185222638 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do so love %reload; %quit, alt-tab, up, enter was so tedious :P < 1185222678 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1185222687 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hugs ehird`
< 1185222938 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, made a quine yet? =P < 1185222949 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION too
< 1185222989 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. a quine would be very hard to make in wapr < 1185223037 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, really < 1185223063 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was bored, so i'm writing a numeric lib that uses only lists < 1185223124 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary representation? < 1185223130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 = (() () ()) < 1185223130 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1185223143 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have some problems with -1 :) < 1185223149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not do it via functions? < 1185223151 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural numbers only < 1185223164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a possible way to do -1. . . < 1185223175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Represent the sign as a list containing a list. < 1185223184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 = ((()) ()) < 1185223195 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get integers from natural numbers with a pair of them, (a, b) where the number is a - b < 1185223237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fractional? Seperate the integer portion from the fractional via, say, ((())). < 1185223244 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no good < 1185223250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1 = (() ((())) ()) < 1185223252 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the items of the list are ignored < 1185223261 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Hey! I was going to say that, ffs! < 1185223264 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stole my thoughts! < 1185223271 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationals are a pair of integers, (a, b) where the number is a/b < 1185223273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that that's one way to represent it, not that that's how you do it now. ;) < 1185223282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: That's another way to do it. . . < 1185223291 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the better way < 1185223305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, lisp i assume < 1185223309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary? it could be binary even if it's lists < 1185223316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how? < 1185223320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() and (())? < 1185223327 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you could use Church numerals. < 1185223336 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming all you can do is (x y ...) and () < 1185223348 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church numerals are unary < 1185223357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . Oh, right. < 1185223422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a matter of choosing a coding < 1185223493 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, what have you got done now? < 1185223520 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary wouldn't be as easy < 1185223543 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have equal, less-than, add, mult, sub < 1185223618 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm copying your idea :) < 1185223622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have succ, pred, add, and subt < 1185223706 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now, exp < 1185223777 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mult([[]], [[], []]) => [[], [], [], []] < 1185223780 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have work to do < 1185223810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mult(0, b) = 0 < 1185223817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i already have that =P < 1185223832 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mult(a+1, b) = add(mult(a, b), b) < 1185223855 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i had a stupid mistake there < 1185223856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid me < 1185223871 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are trivial, division needs some thought < 1185223895 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you refuse to use another representation :) < 1185223912 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, like binary. < 1185223917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1185223926 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about... BRUTEFORCE DIVISION! < 1185223932 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tries random numbers until it gets the right answer < 1185223938 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, division always trips me up < 1185223945 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%wapr # < 1185223949 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%ps < 1185223950 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0. ps < 1185223957 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, convert to a binary church and it's easy < 1185223962 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined wapr code is insane =P < 1185223973 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary church integer? there's no such thing < 1185223975 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what's the algorithm? < 1185223977 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church ints are unary < 1185223990 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that is thought on the 3rd grade < 1185223998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's easier to implement in biary < 1185224000 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*binary < 1185224009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... first grade math. < 1185224025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taught < 1185224074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by this i do not mean it's trivial, but that you should be able to deduce it from the 10 base division i assume you *can* do manually. < 1185224135 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division ought to be as easy as subtraction < 1185224145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...kay < 1185224158 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's do you base that on? < 1185224184 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is, if you only do integer < 1185224188 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hey, you do. < 1185224191 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185224221 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sorry, it is actually unbelievably trivial < 1185224226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, if you are doing unary numbers, you cannot do division more efficiently than subtracting anyhow < 1185224250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by < 1185224257 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unless you have a way to chain operations and let them have common internal presentation :) < 1185224304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: a/b: a-b, counter+1, if a=0, return counter-1, otherwise recurse < 1185224317 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that works almost. < 1185224322 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return counter < 1185224349 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, it's a few details over that < 1185224528 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason i thought division is hard is i've done it in brainfuck having negative values illegal... but subtraction without underflow is much easier if you use... whatever you use < 1185224724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Game of Life where you can modify the board a little bit when it's your turn? :-P < 1185224747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has used to play that, solitaire
< 1185224764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1185224766 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1185224791 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had irl friends like you < 1185224803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... actually, i'm pretty sure most of my friends would play that < 1185224813 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta try < 1185224837 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185224841 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i think would be a cool board game < 1185224847 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is, a finite game of life grid, wrapping < 1185224855 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, two colours of alive cell < 1185224864 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, was just gonna say that < 1185224869 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another rule, for "capturing" - capturing white -> black < 1185224872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capturing black -> white < 1185224872 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just you have to modify the rules a bit < 1185224878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, some form of movement < 1185224879 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: temporary storage = fail < 1185224886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Day and Life automaton - trying to stabilize a chaotic pattern using only one change per turn. < 1185224889 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to set up an initial pattern, move well, and avoid dying, and try to capture < 1185224894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Day and Night < 1185224918 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you think you manage division with 2 variables in unary? < 1185224932 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1185224933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: i am pretty sure i have played such a game online < 1185224939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked for subtraction < 1185224944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on the computer, anyhow < 1185224958 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the only problem would be having to work out the grid manually each turn < 1185224959 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1185224983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: modulo can obviously be made with 2 vars at least < 1185224989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that for starters < 1185225002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was on my father's computer, actually, in some puzzle pack < 1185225172 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a+1)/b = a/b + 1/b < 1185225199 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think there's a simple way to compute inverses < 1185225363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you only have integers. < 1185225480 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two-register Minsky machine? < 1185225561 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a turing machine < 1185225595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "is Turing complete" < 1185225724 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a/(b+1), then use that one technique the name of which i only know in finish < 1185225725 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*finnish < 1185225730 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't find anywhere. < 1185225773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the finnish name? < 1185225779 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185225783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osamurtotekijöihin jako < 1185225784 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185225801 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :division into partial factors or something. < 1185225805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1185225833 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find x and y such that xa/1 + ya/b = a/(b+1) < 1185225835 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1185225845 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that wouldn't help < 1185225847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, an obvious word. < 1185225854 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1185225876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had hoped it would be a translation of something < 1185225877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm for multiplication is so simple < 1185225891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*loanword < 1185225892 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, those are all native words < 1185225910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would imagine so, unless there is Japanese in it :D < 1185225914 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185225967 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part = osa, murto = fraction (somewhat), tekijöihin = into fractions, jako = division < 1185225979 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185226018 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it was too hard for me to remember the pattern english=finnish throughout a dictionary of 4 words. < 1185226061 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1185226061 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.answers.com/partial%20fraction%20decomposition < 1185226078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like "delbrøkoppspalting" < 1185226078 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find x and y such that x/b + y/1 = a/(b+1) < 1185226102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't recognize the concept from wikipedia's explanation at first < 1185226105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too mathish :P < 1185226219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute, that looks strange. < 1185226229 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1185226231 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1185226239 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aoijgnhgoiarejg < 1185226242 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyyy me suck < 1185226243 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1185226244 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1185226247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i shouldn't do math < 1185226248 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1185226299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow that article seems a bit too advanced for this context < 1185226302 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the denominator must of course be a multiplication < 1185226313 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help at all < 1185226315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what was strange < 1185226333 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1185226344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you recognized before i said what it was :) < 1185226361 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think it's even easier to do a/(b+1) -> something... < 1185226370 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what exactly, though < 1185226378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubtful. < 1185226381 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185226388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if b+1 is a prime? < 1185226400 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihi < 1185226405 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be quiet now ;;) < 1185226430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ask me when you need more wrong information presented obscurely!) < 1185226434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact doing it may be as hard as factorization < 1185226491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want more than just taking the integer part < 1185226514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that was what we wanted in the first place, i think, so this is circular. < 1185226560 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we know how to take a modulo, doesn't factorization only need that? < 1185226587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: tell me about the time cube. i have heard about it but never looked at more than the front page of the site, i think. < 1185226594 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the movie? < 1185226604 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, no < 1185226607 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loony theory < 1185226612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... < 1185226619 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically: nuts, more nuts, lala, daaadeee, TIME CUBE! < 1185226621 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time... cube... < 1185226625 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.timecube.com/ < 1185226682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you meant that, then you already knew more than me ;) < 1185226730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are the expert on presenting wrong information obscurely! you must know this! < 1185226748 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185226750 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1185226763 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's this scene where these guys go into one of the rooms < 1185226769 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and time goes wild < 1185226778 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes like million times faster < 1185226781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1185226803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what happens? do the guys chill there for 5 hours of their time and come back having been in the room for a second? < 1185226804 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1185226814 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they stay there for their whole rest of their lives. < 1185226823 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can watch them die of age. < 1185226841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you have it, wrong information about *timecube* < 1185226861 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to think when i was a kid that if you went into a particle accellerator it'd be like those nature programs where they show a plant growing really fast, you'd see a beard sprouting out of you and you getting taller in a few seconds, then you'd die < 1185226862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1185226883 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of a chapter from the Books of Magic series < 1185226914 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i did that same error when imagining time acceleration when i was a child < 1185226945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember explaining my friend about this room i had been in where time went really fast in the other end and stopped at the other < 1185226971 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you went to the other end, you died instantly, in the other end you'd just be stuck forever when time stopped < 1185226980 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you append a CGI request to the end of a GET in an HTTP request? < 1185226981 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i was a noob when i was 4 < 1185227016 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1185227027 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: sounds exactly like what happens in a room positioned next to the edge of a black hole < 1185227038 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Does Chicken have anything like LOOP or ITERATE? < 1185227052 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1185227055 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recurse! or define it yourself < 1185227055 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I'm doing Scheme hackery now, that's for later today, but.) < 1185227060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: my friend didn't ask how that was possible, so i didn't need to explain him that < 1185227065 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1185227066 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: I don't want to recurse :P < 1185227071 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`, LOOP recurses. < 1185227075 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just a wrapper < 1185227079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, perhaps i'm being a noob now and that would actually happen. < 1185227089 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?! I thought it was a wrapper for DO. < 1185227096 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And DO iterates. < 1185227129 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Scheme48 has REDUCE and ITERATE, and I was wondering if anyone had lifted the ITERATE code from Scheme48. < 1185227145 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it does have iterate then < 1185227166 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Scheme48's ITERATE is written in plain Scheme, it should be easy to lift. < 1185227206 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incoming (possibly). < 1185227208 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyways, back to CGI queries -- can you just append ``?param=value'' to the end of the GET request in the HTTP requests? < 1185227228 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too lazy to do my own telnet analysis :P < 1185227316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Sukoshi` < 1185227319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need & < 1185227335 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?x=a?z=y is X => "a?z=y" < 1185227532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: basically you have ? start get parameters, and you separate them with & < 1185227625 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, nice < 1185227664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been debugging a code for 2 hours, it was right on the first try, i just thought it should produce e, while in fact it produced e-2 < 1185227671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(debugging lazily) < 1185227705 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was starting to believe my brains were playing games with me < 1185227741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. you have now gone back to being deluded. < 1185227798 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo < 1185227815 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ping to you too? < 1185227824 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just didn't check the exercise, because *i already read it* < 1185227866 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Aha. < 1185227879 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you pinging me, pikhq ? < 1185227883 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A`a. < 1185227906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to avoid a disconnection by timeout. . . < 1185227911 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping Nickserv. < 1185227914 0 :Sukoshi`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not us. < 1185227918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be the *smart* thing to do. < 1185227923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1185227944 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you time out? < 1185228003 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1185228004 0 :blahbot`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1185228054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the disconnection by timeout is based on PING/PONG messages between you and your directly connected irc server, i think < 1185228067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pinging anything else may not help at all < 1185228104 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: 'Aha.'? < 1185228119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just pinging you, he has a crush on you! < 1185228128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unless you are using telnet, your client should do it automatically < 1185228158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1185228171 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say It With Pings. < 1185228404 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that 'aha' may have had something to do with what i said to her. < 1185228408 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never occurred to me < 1185228480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be that Mars/Venus thing. < 1185228488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi`: http://pastebin.ca/631296 < 1185228606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, http://pastebin.ca/631301 < 1185228702 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :men are from mars, women are from venus, esoteric programmers are from deep under the surface of europa < 1185228750 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there women there? < 1185228758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i am from ganymede, but that may be just me. < 1185228822 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Greek mythology, Ganymede, or Ganymedes (Greek: Γανυμήδης, GanumÄ“dÄ“s) is a divine hero whose homeland was the Troad. < 1185229151 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points out that the theory of division of integers is generally considered to be a PITA.
< 1185229195 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1185229198 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come :| < 1185229228 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sbtraction can be defined in terms of an additiv inverse < 1185229243 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. x - y = x + (-y) < 1185229252 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work so well for division of integers < 1185229271 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplicative inverse... < 1185229272 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need to decide what to do with fractions. < 1185229278 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what to do in the negative case < 1185229286 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah... < 1185229294 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the multiplicative inverse of 2? < 1185229306 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2 < 1185229317 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. which isn;t an integer < 1185229328 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtraction isn't closed over the natural numbers either, but it's still easy < 1185229352 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185229354 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ish < 1185229386 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (sub a b) < 1185229386 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (null? b) a (sub (cdr a) (cdr b)))) < 1185229427 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to do integer divisions without involving fractions or something? < 1185229437 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adding with negatice numbers involved is quite easy... < 1185229462 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH adding with fractions involved is icky < 1185229478 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't divide by 0 at all even in the reals < 1185229495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Division is just messier than subtraction < 1185229498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: easy/icky is a matter of taste :) < 1185229527 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm for addition is almost exactly the same as for subtraction, which makes me wonder why division is so much more complicated than multiplication < 1185229558 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's not < 1185229565 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's exactly the same < 1185229583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: for negation you need negative numbers, for inverse you need real numbers. < 1185229590 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favourite integer division system is Haskell's. It has div/mod *and* quot/rem. Most languages only provide the latter, except C and C++, which provide one of them, probably. < 1185229590 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (mult a b) < 1185229591 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (null? a) a (add (mult (cdr a) b) b))) < 1185229607 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a division algorithm as simple as that < 1185229607 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do subtraction with positive integers using the inverse either < 1185229617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: 123/456 is the same as 123*(1/456) :) < 1185229622 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: huh? < 1185229628 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1185229629 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185229632 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not inverse, negation < 1185229640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, so? < 1185229651 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"inverse" is a more general term < 1185229661 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so division and multiplication are equally hard because one is easily expressed in terms of the other :) < 1185229681 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that doesn't work in the naturals < 1185229685 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: why can't you carry a counter with you but you can use O(n) memory? < 1185229688 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: unless you're talking about _integer_ division, in which case the analogy with addition/subtraction doesn't hold < 1185229692 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that* is lame. < 1185229742 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that can be made tail recursive easily, i just didn't bother < 1185229749 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: and you can't subtract naturals very well either, what's 3-8? < 1185229755 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about memory, it's about elegance < 1185229761 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: without an accumulator? < 1185229771 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1185229774 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1185229777 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! < 1185229786 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elegance? i see. < 1185229804 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then division is even more trivial, anyway < 1185229818 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With division in the integers, you lose information, unlike for subtraction in the naturals. < 1185229825 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5/2 == 4/2 < 1185229826 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1185229828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it doesn't < 1185229845 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: wrong < 1185229851 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what's 3-8? < 1185229861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no, it's undefined, not information losing. < 1185229887 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ah, inthat case the problem is slightly different < 1185229907 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wish to have undefined things be *approximated* correct, yes, you lose information, but you will as well if you do subtraction without negative numbers < 1185229914 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem to want to be able to divide integers, even though it is undefined. < 1185229926 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sometimes it. < 1185229927 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ois < 1185229929 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1185229946 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people also want square root with reals even though it's sometimes undefined. < 1185230002 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"20:50:11 < oklofok> those are trivial, division needs some thought" < 1185230055 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1185230087 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now remember that I was talking about generalised fields (or are they rings)? < 1185230100 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like (mod 7) with + - * < 1185230125 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :additive inverses always exist but division inverses only sometimes exist < 1185230149 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can divide reliably by anything that isn't a factor of the group size, except 0 < 1185230154 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otehr stuff is tougher < 1185230164 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (div a b) ((church-less-than a b) nil) (else (+ 1 (div (sub a b) b))))) < 1185230171 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is that anywhere near? < 1185230203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mod 7) is a field, (mod non-prime) is not < 1185230205 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i say a lot of things. < 1185230247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185230252 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course +1 is wrong :) < 1185230260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (div a b) ((church-less-than a b) nil) (else (inc (div (sub a b) b))))) < 1185230307 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION indicates the paper "Every number has at most two digits" if you are interested in better representations of numbers.
< 1185230340 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... you mean like every number is the sum of two primes? < 1185230343 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how was it < 1185230356 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't proven or something < 1185230360 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm food-needy < 1185230382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goldbach's hypothesis < 1185230394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*even number < 1185230419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 < 1185230422 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's by a guy I know < 1185230442 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tells you a great way to represent numbers based on primitive dtastructures < 1185231085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does goldbach say every number is the sum of *exactly* 2 primes? < 1185231089 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, even numbers < 1185231096 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the fun in that < 1185231121 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: damn < 1185231125 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that's right < 1185231150 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is feeling lucky
< 1185231179 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i didn't know what to do at division by zero < 1185231208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your subtraction doesn't have error correction so i just let it do what it does < 1185231208 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that recurses indefinately, which is fine < 1185231212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1185231215 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1185231226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The conjecture that all odd numbers greater than 7 are the sum of three odd primes is called the "weak" Goldbach conjecture" < 1185231234 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtraction might work even if you do 5-8 < 1185231241 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about lists < 1185231244 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1185231257 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just learned about numbers and functions. < 1185231271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: if every even number is the sum of two primes, then you can just add 3 to get every odd integer < 1185231294 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, then that's a number representation < 1185231299 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean unique < 1185231300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185231304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1185231306 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it unique? < 1185231308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach's_conjecture < 1185231335 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1185231461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the opposite, there as so many that it is almost statistically certain to be true < 1185231485 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather the opposite of what? < 1185231485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still there is no actual proof < 1185231492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185231494 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1185231501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so hard to understand anything. < 1185231526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the diagram under "Heuristic justification" < 1185231618 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, looks like a pretty static growth :P < 1185231639 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the mathematicians haven't noticed that < 1185231807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather unlikely < 1185231922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's more likely than there being a number that can't be expressed as two primes. < 1185231925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, even number < 1185232018 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, did somebody say better representations of numbers? < 1185232022 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... how unlikely is that? < 1185232029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: SimonRC < 1185232042 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every number has at most two digits"... hmm. I'll have to check that out sometime. < 1185232048 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slips it into his paper queue
< 1185232054 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't open it < 1185232066 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link it to me if it's not the one google gives. < 1185232285 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I want a proof that no heuristic arguments are misleading. < 1185232299 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(What's the opposite of "misleading"?) < 1185232388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there probably _are_ heuristic arguments that are misleading, i doubt you'll get a proof < 1185232415 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, proving false stuff is difficult < 1185232416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as things with enormous smallest counterexamples < 1185232444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but _if_ you can manage to prove some false stuff correctly, you will be pretty famous. < 1185232460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you will have shown inconsistence of the foundations. < 1185232532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can there be proof of consistence of the foundations? < 1185232551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; Godel's theorem < 1185232562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, of course, they are actually inconsistent. < 1185232587 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think godel's theorem says any such thing... < 1185232591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you use even stronger foundations to prove it < 1185232697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godel's theorem: if a system include enough of the theory of basic arithmetic, then it cannot prove the encoded theorem of its own consistence, unless it is in fact inconsistent. < 1185232709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*includes < 1185232739 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you mean proving nonexistence is difficult? < 1185232745 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er, never mind. < 1185232755 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant proving stuff to be false. < 1185232760 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i have never heard it stated that way, but wiki seems to vague agree < 1185232764 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vaguely < 1185232788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that part before the comma is my handwaving over the actual technical requirements, which i don't quite remember) < 1185232800 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilemma: < 1185232807 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must also include certain truths about consistency. < 1185232813 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what would it say then if not that? < 1185232849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first order predicate logic and some peano arithmetic axioms are certainly enough < 1185232867 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider some Turing machine axioms plus "this theory is consistent". As long as the Turing machine axioms don't mention consistency and are consistent, the resulting theory is consistent. < 1185232872 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host115-89-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1185232885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: "a complex system can't be both consistent and complete" < 1185232900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that there are several Godel's theorems < 1185232906 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Hungarian spelt Erdős as Erdös. I mentioned that I thought it was spelt Erdős. Am I a bad person for correcting someone on spelling his native language when he actually did spell worngly? < 1185232910 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1185232945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: perhaps he spelled it that way because of technical difficulties. < 1185232950 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It's spelled "wrongly" < 1185232956 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: heh < 1185232968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: the encoded sentence of its own consistency is what is used to prove your statement < 1185232978 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he didn't say so. < 1185233005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot actually see which characters you used, but i assume it's with long and short "
< 1185233020 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: something like that. < 1185233027 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umlaut and double acute accent, or some such. < 1185233030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o with long " is the correct spelling < 1185233067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: btw i have done so to english native speakers myself. < 1185233133 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too! < 1185233137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work on this channel though. < 1185233152 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native speakers tend to speak their language horribly :) < 1185233158 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1185233195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody makes mistakes unless they're being terribly formal < 1185233208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a difference in the quality of mistakes made by native and non-native speakers < 1185233216 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can usually tell them apart < 1185233257 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not even know he was hungarian until he told me. < 1185233266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, the mistakes made by native speakers are sufficiently common that it's easy to pick through. < 1185233267 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: write, rather < 1185233286 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: both < 1185233301 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1185233313 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with what? < 1185233326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i didn't know Asztal was british until he told me :) < 1185233334 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe native speakers make more errors when writing than when speaking < 1185233341 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the most part speak correctly < 1185233350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after i tried greeting him in Hungarian... < 1185233350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ. < 1185233354 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such things are nasty as they come totally out of the blue. < 1185233365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you *heard* people in the USA talk? < 1185233370 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a couple of errors I see pretty often. < 1185233374 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses Stealth Experts.
< 1185233379 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not really, except on tv < 1185233384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, using "there's" with a plural. < 1185233396 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: so you don't actually disagree, you're just saying native speakers make fewer mistakes while speaking. < 1185233410 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :few even < 1185233412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. . . Imagine 1337, spoken, and you'll be close to the correctness level. < 1185233420 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing as how rules for spoken languages are less strict < 1185233443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: a mistake is a mistake. The rules are the same. < 1185233444 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, using "me" and such where inappropriate, using "I" and such where inappropriate, using "was" where inappropriate, using "would have" where inappropriate... < 1185233459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ever heard of dialects? < 1185233466 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I've never heard somebody verbally misuse an apostrophe. :-P < 1185233486 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me your phone number and I can fix it < 1185233491 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stop treating "type" and "kind" as if they were plural. < 1185233497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that irritates me is people writing the contraction of "would have" as "would of", rather than "would've". < 1185233509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't, i treat them as Haskell terms... < 1185233721 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a... lover? < 1185233721 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sp3tt: I hear native english speakers make mistakes in speech all the time. < 1185233736 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit defeat. < 1185233777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually nobody notices them, unless the speaker happens to be G W Bush < 1185233790 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case everybody jumps on them < 1185233827 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example nobody knows the past participle of swim :) < 1185233851 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1185233854 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me there < 1185233855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geschwommen < 1185233865 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's german, I believe < 1185233894 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr yeah < 1185233895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! < 1185233913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, those things are taught in like elementary school < 1185233919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english verbzz < 1185233934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, we've had _plenty_ of time to forget them :) < 1185233937 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finland, i mean, don't know about america :P < 1185233941 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1185233958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like admitting i've forgotten something < 1185233995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you eat for breakfast a week ago? < 1185234009 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1185234108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is pretty sure, but only because he eats the same nearly every day
< 1185234125 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never eat breakfast :\ < 1185234171 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1185234177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a school morning, i'm late, otherwise i sleep till 13.00-18.00... never really get to experience a morning < 1185234223 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the correct name for that party game with a group of people that attempt to oust the chosen traitors among their ranks? < 1185234236 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gangbang < 1185234247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185234274 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: mafia? < 1185234298 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a name, certainly < 1185234381 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: You are forgetting. God is a shitty programmer. God does not know the meaning of "robust design". With god's creations you are advised to stray from the original use-cases as little as possible. Therefore, sleeping normal hours tends to get you better results. < 1185234385 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I does for me. < 1185234389 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It < 1185234425 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution is a shitty programmer, says i, but the point is valid. < 1185234436 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, with that conversion it's the same assertion < 1185234437 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is odd really < 1185234440 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i don't believe. < 1185234446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is odd? < 1185234475 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many things that, in the programming world would be treated as atrifacts of a terrible cowboy coder, are reverred when in the natural world < 1185234497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the human body can have it's rest at anytime of the day, only change in the timetable screws you up < 1185234504 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gives worse results < 1185234516 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no one body clock < 1185234525 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what i'm saying. < 1185234529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1185234531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1185234573 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are about a dozen body clocks, syncronised to the day by various mechanisms, and sleeping anything other than normal hours tends to screw things up, reducing your concentration abilities. < 1185234583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, for a while < 1185234605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have your sleep any time, it's the change that makes you tired and stufff < 1185234606 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1185234614 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1185234635 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not totally right IME < 1185234656 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have sometimes slept a steady schedule and felt mostly tired < 1185234673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if you're a night watchman, your body takes about 3 months to change to the right schedule in body temperature < 1185234677 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does change. < 1185234688 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that you're warm at night < 1185234772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I didn't try for long enough < 1185234779 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelated: < 1185234798 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am suspicious of some of th claims made for savant abilities < 1185234811 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what you're saying would mean people could never more into a foreign country. < 1185234814 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1185234826 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if it is so great, why can't we all do that?" < 1185234839 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ah, but the daylight is re-synchronised to fit < 1185234849 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm always in the dark < 1185234857 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't i always sleep? < 1185234869 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one shitty argument, excuse me. < 1185234874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean mine < 1185234947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analogy: Suppose that there is a real or fake chocolate cake in a room with 20 3-year-olds. After being left alone for 1/2 hour, the cake is untouched. Would *you* believe a claim the it was a real chocolate cake? < 1185235006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION _really_ wonders what that is an analogy _to_ :D
< 1185235012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION too :P
< 1185235019 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a few savant abilities come from something not working. Expecting evolution not to spot that breaking something helps fitness islike expecting aforementionned 3-year-olds not to touch a real chocolate cake. < 1185235022 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1185235026 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the savant abilities < 1185235043 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-men is even sillier < 1185235048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: er < 1185235063 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what? < 1185235072 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: It seems pretty obvious that autism is not very useful for survival. < 1185235086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not *that* < 1185235086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Begging to differ, as an autistic. < 1185235101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, savant abilities may help only with things that are totally useless in a hunter-gatherer society. < 1185235103 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: now, why do you think savant abilities can be isolated from the other symptoms? < 1185235115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore, evolution has not had time to work. < 1185235117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just kind of suck in primitive societies. . . < 1185235158 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I wasn't. The cake is just plastic. < 1185235176 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i don't understand, but okay.