00:01:21 <GregorR> ... are you looking for the term "indo-european" in terms of languages? :P
00:02:42 <lament> yeah, ihope suggested Sukoshi might have meant that
00:03:09 <lament> although she seems to disagree
00:04:20 <GregorR> Well, "western world" is used to refer to a family of /cultures/, undeniably.
00:05:05 <lament> GregorR: even when it refers to cultures, nobody is sure what exactly it refers to
00:05:41 <GregorR> I've always thought of it as those cultures derived from Roman ideas.
00:05:48 <ihope> Also, there's stuff like "I used to like this song". What are the other forms of that?
00:06:05 <lament> GregorR: that's one definition out of a thousand possible ones :)
00:06:54 <pikhq> Sukoshi: BTW, the Celtic languages are Indo-European.
00:07:41 <GregorR> [Though fairly distant relatives of most of the others]
00:08:15 <lament> ihope: that's not a tenses issue
00:10:37 <lament> (and "used to" is not an auxiliary verb)
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00:53:04 <ihope> lament: I've seen "did you used to?", though not more than once that I can remember.
00:53:26 <ihope> "Did you use to?" would seem to make more sense, but... yeah, iffy.
00:54:41 <GregorR> It doesn't make any sense, but it's correct.
00:54:41 <lament> "did you used to" sounds ungrammatical
00:55:05 <GregorR> As an answer to a question, it's fine. "I don't play the trumpet." "Did you used to?"
00:55:17 <lament> GregorR: no, it's ungrammatical.
00:55:20 <ihope> A question to a question!
00:55:26 <lament> GregorR: "did you use to" would be correct.
00:56:32 <GregorR> Hm. According to some grammar page, that is correct in a question or negative context.
00:56:52 <GregorR> Erm, that is, "use to" is.
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00:57:36 <ihope> What do you call that "question or negative context"?
00:57:40 <GregorR> However, it's correct for "I used to eat broccoli" and "That band used to have a trumpeter"
00:58:02 <ihope> "I did use to eat broccoli".
00:58:20 <ihope> "I would use to like it" >:-)
00:58:36 <GregorR> Both of those are so bad :P
00:59:35 <GregorR> "Used to" just makes no sense whatsoever.
01:05:56 <pikhq> It only makes sense in that English uses it.
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02:35:00 <GregorR> It is my opinion that capital punishment should be more common.
02:35:10 <GregorR> For example, the news just mentioned a man who has been arrested for drunken driving NINE TIMES.
02:35:25 <GregorR> I think, around time four, they should've just shot him in the head and been done with it.
02:38:52 <pikhq> It is my opinion that capital punishment should be less common, but sane sentences should be more common.
02:39:04 <pikhq> Drunk driving? Revoke license, first offense.
02:39:39 <pikhq> Second offense? Long and hard jail time, plus fines for driving without a license.
02:58:49 <cherez> And mandatory sterilization.
02:59:41 <pikhq> That's for second-offense rapists.
03:00:58 <pikhq> . . . And, it's hailing.
03:08:07 <pikhq> [lambda x {$x $x}] [lambda x {$x $x}]
03:09:46 <Sukoshi> If things in the world went my way, you'd be drawn and quartered for drinking.
03:10:15 <pikhq> If things in the world went my way, stupidity would be the only crime with a death sentence.
03:10:17 <Sukoshi> On a more serious note, I really don't understand why people like to drink (or smoke or any of that other mind-addling thing if it doesen't actually taste good).
03:11:18 <pikhq> Alcohol, in some cases, is imbibed for flavor, rather than stupidity.
03:11:30 <pikhq> (of course, the stupid cases are *remarkably* prevalent)
03:11:40 <Sukoshi> I'll bet if you ingest vinegar, it'll taste remarkably similar.
03:11:53 <cherez> They do smell similar....
03:12:01 <pikhq> Pure alcohol, sure.
03:12:22 <cherez> I'd imagine anything people drink for taste would be just fine without the alcohol in it.
03:12:41 <Sukoshi> Which is why I like cider. All the fun. None of the mind-addling.
03:13:01 * pikhq hasn't done a taste-test of alcoholic and dry versions of things, so won't comment
03:13:16 <Sukoshi> IMO it all tastes like vinegar.
03:13:33 <Sukoshi> Some slightly sweet vinegar, some vinegar with an aftertaste of somewhat.
03:14:18 <cherez> I find it troubling that so many people see a need to lose their mental faculties in order to enjoy themselves.
03:14:18 <Sukoshi> That's even worse than the taste. The sleep.
03:14:29 <pikhq> Which makes sense, since it's a depressant.
03:15:05 <pikhq> cherez: I find it troubling that so few people have mental faculties of note to lose.
03:16:39 <cherez> I've seen a lot of people go deep into negative intellect for "fun."
03:17:06 * pikhq would also like to declare to the #esoteric world that cherez kicks ass; but I digress. . .
03:17:53 <Sukoshi> Someone on another channel I know said ``I drink alcohol because it makes me more social'' (he's a teenager).
03:18:11 <cherez> With said negative intellect, they did not realize the only fun was being had by the sober people listening to them (or playing Super Smash Brothers with them.)
03:18:19 <Sukoshi> I said to him back: Next time you want to be more social, blast out your frontal cortex with a gun, and say ``I blasted out my frontal cortex to be more social!''.
03:18:32 <pikhq> The most drinking I've done is one alcoholic beverage. . .
03:19:27 <pikhq> Frankly, doing more than that seems stupid both in that one becomes rapidly less intelligent and that one has less time to actually *taste* said alcoholic beverage.
03:20:49 <cherez> By the way, my mother is a recovering alcoholic and my father is an alcoholic.
03:22:27 <pikhq> Oh, so none of that "mom's drunk and being really stupid" shit this time?
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03:24:37 <cherez> Not right now, thankfully.
03:24:54 <cherez> Granted, I'm going back to college in 2 weeks, so I'm worried that she might regress.
03:26:02 <pikhq> Methylate all the alcohol in Kansas; that might do the job. XD
03:27:30 <cherez> That is my next chaotic neutral plan.
03:28:04 <cherez> Really, I guess it's more true neutral, but I digress.
03:29:02 <cherez> One of these days I need to finish the specification for Rube.
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03:31:23 <pikhq> Lightening storm. . .
03:31:51 <cherez> I dare you to take a long shower on the phone!
03:32:01 <pikhq> Cell-phone, and no.
03:34:00 <pikhq> However, I'm perfectly willing to use surge-protected equipment.
03:47:30 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Stand out in a thunderstorm.
03:47:38 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Would you like to join me?
03:48:05 <cherez> And shout "all gods are bastards!"
03:53:16 <bsmntbombdood> and, i don't see how you could come even close to equating ethanol with vinegar, unless you've been drinking bad wine
04:05:54 <Sukoshi> With a few 1C capacitors, pikhq, you have a much greater change of getting hit than petty lightning rods and a transmission-line resonance effect.
04:06:53 <pikhq> Sukoshi: With just a paperclip, I've got an excellent chance of getting hit with electricity.
04:07:38 <Sukoshi> pikhq: Maybe, but it's more fun when you use a paperclip to resonate and then cause metal attached to it to resonate to have a paperclip radio on the go!
04:11:03 <Sukoshi> Nuuu. Out of mental addlers :(
04:12:36 <pikhq> It depends upon the means.
04:12:40 <pikhq> Brainfuck is a nice one.
04:12:46 <lament> Sukoshi: also, isn't drinking in order to be social pretty much the best reason there is? I would imagine it's why most "normal people" (ie not alcoholics) drink.
04:13:12 <bsmntbombdood> brainfuck makes you _think_, liquour makes you _not think_
04:13:17 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: Granted.
04:13:27 <pikhq> It's still a means of mental addling.
04:14:09 <cherez> Your thinking accomplishes a lot less.
04:15:06 <lament> with both drinking and brainfuck, yes :)
04:16:50 <cherez> But Brainfuck looks a lot more fun.
04:20:18 <lament> also, brainfuck is pretty much the opposite of social :)
04:22:59 <pikhq> (really, who wants to be social when you can be elegant in your code?)
04:24:24 <bsmntbombdood> somewhat should port emacs to use guile instead of elisp
04:25:03 <lament> it comes with the MIT scheme distribution
04:25:12 <lament> it's an emacs clone in scheme
04:25:37 <pikhq> And sabetts, author of Ratpoison and StubWM, has Emacs in Common Lisp.
04:25:46 <pikhq> Well, rather, it's got Elisp in Common Lisp.
04:28:13 <cherez> bsmntbombdood: then make a scheme macro
04:30:42 <bsmntbombdood> it would still be obvious that it was a layer on top of elis
04:31:04 <cherez> But it makes pretending it's Scheme pretty easy!
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04:42:16 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, hm. I just had a thought- the folks here are highly inclined to be the sort to enjoy puzzles
04:42:35 <RodgerTheGreat> I wrote a bit of a "hacking challenge" a while ago- is anyone interested in playing?
04:44:15 <RodgerTheGreat> the only hints I'll give are to be thorough and not to jump to conclusions.
04:45:15 <pikhq> You don't have permission to access /PHP/Example.php on this server.
04:46:59 <RodgerTheGreat> if anyone cracks the basil leaf puzzle, be sure to let me know. Otherwise, if you find yourself completely stuck, PM me with your status and I may be able to give you a small nudge
04:47:46 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd be very interested to hear about people's experiences with the challenge, as I may be designing a much larger-scale game of this nature sometime soon.
04:50:30 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Second puzzle is misleading in a way I don't think you want it to be.
04:56:07 <lament> pikhq: i don't think so
04:57:33 <RodgerTheGreat> one person has beaten it, (and I highly suspect he cheated), and the other person I revealed the solution to says I'm an evil bastard
04:58:50 <lament> i have no clue what to do with .elf files
04:59:51 <lament> (and is it 386-specific?)
05:00:17 <RodgerTheGreat> lament: Linux binary format. However, it's not absolutely necessary to complete the challenge
05:00:46 <RodgerTheGreat> it's a very subtle and evil challenge, and you'll kick yourself when you get it
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05:25:11 <cherez> I thought your title was The Great
05:25:23 <lament> the great sadistic fuck
05:25:43 <RodgerTheGreat> "RodgerTheSadisticFuck" doesn't really roll off the tongue, I'm afraid
05:29:53 <pikhq> So close, and yet so far on GulesFish.
05:38:19 <lament> pikhq: did you get it?
05:38:33 <pikhq> Just now, with some heavy hinting.
05:41:10 <pikhq> That's truly evil.
05:41:14 <pikhq> And yes, there is a solution.
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06:15:54 <pikhq> lament: There is a brilliant solution to the GulesFish. You'll love it once you figure it out.
06:19:37 <RodgerTheGreat> well, I wish those of you who are still pounding away at it a good night- I must sleep. 'Night, everyone!
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06:31:10 * pikhq should get back into notpron
06:31:24 <pikhq> Just. . . Not now.
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07:25:46 <Sukoshi> I should maybe try it, but I don't know much about how Web stuff works.
07:26:00 <Sukoshi> I mean, I know the basic HTTP queries, but that's about all.
07:26:38 <Sukoshi> I think sockets and wire protocols are more fun :)
07:30:46 <Sukoshi> So people, what is arguable the most famous groan in all of history?
07:32:45 <GregorR-L> The groan let out by Gengis Khan when that chicken bone finally got him.
07:33:16 <cherez> Adam when he found out what happened to his rib?
07:33:34 <Sukoshi> Not by much though, I don't think.
07:34:32 <cherez> Cain, when he found out what incest is?
07:35:34 <Sukoshi> Why would someone groan at that? :D
07:35:40 <Sukoshi> Actually, it's the Groans of the Britons.
07:35:44 <Sukoshi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons <-- Here.
07:35:59 <cherez> consider his romantic options
07:36:25 <Sukoshi> I gotta say though, those people were pretty tough if all they did before they were about to get brutally slaughtered and life as they know it completely changed was groan.
07:37:55 <Sukoshi> Then the heathens mated with their tormentors in the futures and began calling themselves Anglo-Saxons.
07:38:10 <Sukoshi> I blame all the constant European warring on idiots who mated with barbarians :|
07:48:49 <cherez> If only they spoke Latin
07:50:35 <Sukoshi> It's like, all the annoying, inconsistent points of English only multiplied many times over.
07:52:18 <cherez> But it sounds more satisfying.
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16:06:35 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Steg'd?
16:29:29 <GregorR> It's the word you think you're using when you think you're saying "use to" or "used to"
16:29:34 <GregorR> You're actually saying "yuse to"
16:30:13 <GregorR> Err, "It's the word you're using when you think you're saying"
16:31:31 <RodgerTheGreat> a word you think you say when you think you use another
16:34:06 <RodgerTheGreat> I henceforce create a new term. A Vogal is a word (or spelling thereof) that is believed to be used with some commonality but whose correct usage is nearly universally doubted by speakers.
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16:36:48 <RodgerTheGreat> now that's the tricky aspect. "ain't" might be a vogal.
16:37:36 <GregorR> So, a word that's widely used but regardless is almost universally considered incorrect? That's not how I understood it :P
16:38:49 <RodgerTheGreat> perhaps a better example is the word combination "that that" which can occur as a grammatically correct pairing in some cases but always seems clumsy and "incorrect".
16:39:28 <RodgerTheGreat> other examples of vague or confusing grammar could fall into the category
16:39:47 <GregorR> I didn't know that that was considered incorrect by anyone.
16:40:40 <RodgerTheGreat> it's ambiguous, and many people find repeated words disconcerting
16:41:03 <GregorR> Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
16:41:35 <RodgerTheGreat> when spoken, most people avoid saying things like "two, too" in favor of "two as well" or similar
16:41:45 <GregorR> [Those] Buffalo buffalo [which] Buffalo buffalo [are prone to] buffalo [themselves] buffalo [other] Buffalo buffalo.
16:44:05 <GregorR> I think it could reasonably be changed to: Buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
16:44:31 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, as an added bonus, I can make a verb form of vogal, "vogle" which would be the act of using a vogal.
16:44:38 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: I find that that usage is not unnatural. :p
16:44:54 <GregorR> [Those] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo [which] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo [are prone to] buffalo [themselves] buffalo [other] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo.
16:45:33 <RodgerTheGreat> then saying "I vogled a vogal" is itself an instance of vogling a vogal.
16:46:19 <RodgerTheGreat> "Vogle a vogal" is a more confusing version of the sentence as a declarative.
16:46:54 <GregorR> I find that that "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that."
16:48:01 <RodgerTheGreat> perhaps the definition of Vogal could be simplified and broaden to encompass anything that could be considered a "linguistic hack".
16:50:47 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm also tempted to make a language around this idea. If I call it "Vogal", then I have a proper noun, a verb, a means of referencing other usages. Throw in tenses and plurals and we have an evil, evil mess
16:53:29 <RodgerTheGreat> the idea of using quoted groups is also quite clever, gregor- I'll have to consider that.
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16:55:14 <GregorR> The sentence fragment "that that" is often confusing, but can be interpreted easily if we consider that "that" to "that" that "that." So, that "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that" that that "that" that "thats" "thats."
16:58:07 * GregorR watches pinkish-greyish gunk melt out of RodgerTheGreat's ears :P
16:59:05 <RodgerTheGreat> fuck. My jello and oatmeal sack lunch must've gone bad.
16:59:08 <pikhq> The Basil puzzle? I don't even know where to *start* on that TIFF.
16:59:44 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: well, if you recall, nobody has ever solved the basil puzzle legitimately
17:00:02 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Which, of course, is why I don't know where to start.
17:00:05 <RodgerTheGreat> I explained how it worked to a friend of mine, and then he solved it and called me an evil bastard
17:00:30 <RodgerTheGreat> it is solvable, it is quite straightforward, and it does not require deep cryptanalysis
17:00:55 <RodgerTheGreat> other than that, I wouldn't want to detract from your fun
17:00:59 <pikhq> I hate how you qualify that with "deep".
17:01:45 <ehird`> pikhq, it doesn't require *much* jumping off of buildings
17:02:06 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: you'll probably have the most fun if you start at the beginning: http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php
17:02:17 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, nice 403 page there
17:02:24 <pikhq> GregorR: I think you'll like a lot of the puzzles.
17:02:33 <pikhq> ehird`: Ain't it though?
17:02:34 <GregorR> You don't have permission to access /PHP/Example.php on this server.
17:03:07 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: see? I told you- most people never make it past the first puzzle.
17:03:22 <GregorR> If that's the first puzzle, then I officially don't care :P
17:04:51 <RodgerTheGreat> oh well. Gregor will miss out on GulesFish, I suppose.
17:06:27 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Hint wasn't needed; he got this close to solving #1, and decided on apathy.
17:06:28 <ehird`> THIS MUST BE SIGNIFICAN-
17:06:51 <ehird`> j=2 and i get brainfuck code!
17:07:10 <ehird`> %bf +++++++[->+++++++++++<]>.>++++++++[<-<>->-]<.----.---.
17:07:21 <pikhq> No fair helping others solve it.
17:07:48 <ehird`> it didn't help me personally, anyway, since M=96 gives me the original page
17:08:08 <pikhq> ehird`: Slight misleading.
17:08:20 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, yeah, yeah, i have this illusion of blahbot` being amazingly magick and talking to only me
17:08:25 <ehird`> because i use it so often =p
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17:13:39 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR: I repaired a lingering issue with the first challenge that might be less discouraging. You're missing out on a great deal of fun if you give up so quickly
17:14:07 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: I'm at work + just plain don't care + figured it out and still don't care.
17:14:25 <GregorR> I'm not giving up, giving up is very different from being overwhelmed with apathy.
17:21:41 <ehird`> never underestimate the stupidity of windows developers
17:22:27 <ehird`> "Of course installing into the same place to get that extension back won't overwrite all of my code. I mean, that's a stupid idea. I don't need to backup beforehand. *installs*" "OK - the problem is still there, the old extension wasn't overri- wait a minute, where has all my goddamn code gone?" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-"
17:22:51 <ehird`> ^ recount of the past 2 minutes.
17:23:15 <ehird`> i want my code back :<
17:23:55 <pikhq> If you were solving the Gulesfish puzzle, you wouldn't need it back.
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18:34:47 <Sukoshi> If you have a group of packets which can be grouped into 3 major structures, and each packet in these structures only has minor differences (like the Info field in a Range packet is the end of the next range, and the Info field in a Request packet is the next requested packet) would it be more advisable in Java to simply create classes for the 3 major types then assign subtypes using constant shorts in a short type field or is it bett
18:34:47 <Sukoshi> er for each to have its own class?
18:35:08 <Sukoshi> Efficiency also is nice, because this is socket code, so.
18:40:38 <Sukoshi> Hm. This other TCP stack implementation I found on the net shows that the 3 major classes route seems better.
18:41:06 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm not sure there's a difference in terms of data overhead
18:41:45 <Sukoshi> Well, it's just that, the class definitions themselves seem pointlessly different.
18:42:02 <Sukoshi> Just different names for the same underlying function.
18:42:14 <RodgerTheGreat> but I don't have a ton of experience doing networking in Java, so I may be missing something fiddley here
18:42:21 * ehird` wonders why C# doesn't get enough love
18:42:35 <Sukoshi> ehird`: Same reason Pascal doesen't.
18:42:35 <ehird`> Mono works great, it's like java but less sucky, it has lots of functional-programming-alike stuff, its spec is open, etc
18:43:02 <Sukoshi> It occupies too close a niche to something that's become more popular.
18:43:23 <ehird`> Right, but Java doesn't deserve to be so popular vs C#
18:43:42 <ehird`> Surely, even with that law, a clearly superior technology with no major flaws vs the competitor should win out?
18:43:54 <ehird`> I guess everyone would use OS X by now if that happened
18:44:09 <Sukoshi> A) It's by M$ B) Mono's spec may be open, but C#'s isn't C) Java's been around for a lot longer.
18:44:32 <RodgerTheGreat> java has earned it's place in enterprise level coding not by being the fastest, but by being the most scalable.
18:45:38 <Sukoshi> Plus a lot of the recent Java buzz has come from RMS's blessings (or as far as he blesses a non-C non-Emacs-Lisp language).
18:45:42 <ehird`> Sukoshi, A) boo hoo, one company is the source of all evil and can do no good, even if two parts are completely unrelated B) it's standardised by ECMA. by your logic, JavaScript is not open. C) So what?
18:46:18 <Sukoshi> ehird`: Argue A against raving idiotic Slashdotters.
18:46:50 <Sukoshi> Most of them believe that the sky is about to fall, aliens are about to take over the planet, and M$ is about to breed the next corporate empire.
18:47:05 <ehird`> Sukoshi, raving idiotic slashdotters can't code anyway
18:47:09 <ehird`> well, apart from in Visual Basic
18:47:20 <ehird`> not the raving idiotic ones :)
18:47:24 <ehird`> or at least -- I hope not!
18:47:25 <lament> Sukoshi: when you call microsoft "M$", it makes it rather hard to differentiate you from a "raving idiotic slashdotter"
18:48:00 <ehird`> <Sukoshi> A) It's by M$
18:48:22 <Sukoshi> I never said I *agree* with these reasons, I'm just saying ``this is what they are''.
18:48:33 <Sukoshi> Logical fallacies help no-one.
18:48:39 <RodgerTheGreat> slashdot is effectively an aggregator of the most extremist followers of every software movement.
18:49:10 <ehird`> i still think C# should logically have at least a bit more spotlight than it does
18:49:41 <Sukoshi> I agree, but marketing-wise, C# was too late.
18:50:09 <Sukoshi> You can't make hordes of developers change language and hordes of rhetoric change their subject.
18:50:27 <Sukoshi> Java itself took years to take away the clutch from C++.
18:51:23 <ehird`> oh well, i'll still keep refining C# into a more dynamic language, yet still as nice... the product should get some attention that it deserves; the dynamic-languages community has lots of buzz
18:53:20 <Sukoshi> Also wait for the magic 10-12 year mark of a language.
18:53:29 <RodgerTheGreat> the important part of all of this is that the C/C++ monoculture is being softened, and more and more developers are opening up to the idea of working with new languages or more than one. Programming languages are how computer science as a whole pushes software forward.
18:53:41 <Sukoshi> That's around the time popularity for any language surges if the buzz stays, and it's a bit eerie in that.
18:54:10 <RodgerTheGreat> agreed- Java is really coming into it's own as of late
18:54:18 <Sukoshi> (Python and Ruby both hit their stride at the 12 year mark, and Java seems to be as well.)
18:55:11 <ehird`> 12 years... that's a bit long for microsoft to keep something up :)
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18:58:22 <RodgerTheGreat> well, they're doing well with their Xbox arm, even though that segment of the company has operated at a continuous loss as long as it's been in existence. It's an example of Microsoft realizing there's something much more valuable than money- mindshare.
19:00:53 <cherez> Someone invented a cybernetic XBox-arm?
19:10:33 <Sukoshi> While I enter the shower, what do y'al think the future of Perl is?
19:11:36 <Sukoshi> I have a feeling that it will become a niche language (dependence on a VM is hard to push as a feature, especially with 2 already common VMs out there (Mono and JVM)) but that it will stay alive only because of the ``Hacker'' (Cracker) and sysadmin stigma around it.
19:13:54 <ehird`> i think it'll become infinitely more popular in the dynamic languages community with perl 6
19:14:11 <ehird`> and the rest of the perl hackers will gradually but slowly upgrade to perl 6 and generally carry on the same, utilising the new features, of course
19:14:49 <lament> Sukoshi: i think it has already become a niche language.
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19:53:14 * ehird` is stuck on the puzzles
19:53:30 <ehird`> i get that there's brainfuck code
19:53:37 <ehird`> but its unbalanced, and it seems to go in no real order
19:53:57 <ehird`> the patterns seem too complex to be a simple time-based ordering sequcnce
20:02:58 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
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20:05:20 <GregorR> [Unfortunately, I fear that no one will get that :( ]
20:21:20 <ehird`> Tim berners-lee is insane: "People keep asking what Web 3.0 is. I think maybe when you've got an overlay of scalable vector graphics - everything rippling and folding and looking misty - on Web 2.0 and access to a semantic Web integrated across a huge space of data, you'll have access to an unbelievable data resource."
20:21:29 <ehird`> rippling and folding and looking misty FTW!
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21:07:37 <lament> his mom is rippling and folding and looking misty
21:10:22 <ihope> Gulesfish puzzle...
21:10:53 <ihope> pikhq: what's the Gulesfish puzzle?
21:15:32 <ehird`> it wasn't that hard...
21:15:41 <ehird`> but once i got the basic concept it didn't take long.
21:17:07 <ehird`> actually i lost the link
21:17:13 <ehird`> what's the first puzzle url again? so i can use history
21:17:19 <ehird`> i haven't done lock 1 yet, i'm stumped
21:17:34 <ehird`> ah, found the link again
21:28:03 <ehird`> Welll... I got the output
21:28:06 <ehird`> Now I have to decipher it
21:28:36 <ehird`> now lock 2.... the basil puzzle?
21:31:47 <pikhq> If you figure it out, give me hints. :p
21:38:57 <GregorR> RodgerTheGreat: Figure out a puzzle based on the sentence: That "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that" that that "that" that "thats" that "thats."
21:43:31 <pikhq> There is something very, very fishy about that picture.
21:45:16 <pikhq> For some reason, the blue channel looks almost as though it's been tweaked.
21:46:52 <pikhq> Does the fact that it's basil have anything to do with it?
21:46:53 <ehird`> shows up as corrupt to me
21:46:56 <pikhq> Basil.tif is, yes.
21:47:58 * pikhq does a Google Pictures search, in hopes of finding Rodger's source, for comparison purposes
21:48:21 <ehird`> it kind of looks like a fractal too
21:48:39 <pikhq> If it's bit-for-bit identical to his source, then we can move on to searching in the TIFF. . .
21:48:53 <ehird`> the blue channel seems normal
21:49:02 <ehird`> when i decompose it into RGB blue just looks darker; to be expected
21:52:24 * pikhq is rapidly getting the feeling that Rodger's source is well-hidden
21:53:23 <pikhq> Motherfucking hell.
21:53:38 <ehird`> that accurately sums up the insanity of this
21:53:39 <pikhq> I found a picture which is identical, except with text overlayed on it.
21:53:51 <pikhq> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/images/herbs_basil300.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/&h=300&w=300&sz=16&hl=en&start=520&um=1&tbnid=DsOXfgK_b1L3UM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBasil%26start%3D520%26imgsz%3Dsmall%257Cmedium%257Clarge%257Cxlarge%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
21:54:02 <ehird`> let's try the binary data
21:55:54 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: You, sir, are evil.
21:56:22 <pikhq> I bet you shrank the picture from its original size, just to confound efforts like mine.
21:57:50 <ehird`> img.count [ != img.count ] so it isn't a bf program
22:03:40 <ehird`> has RodgerTheGreat given any hints
22:14:11 <ehird`> i have absolutely no idea
22:18:17 <RodgerTheGreat> sorry guys, but this is my masterpiece and my final puzzle
22:18:31 <RodgerTheGreat> it just wouldn't be right at all to let it go as easily as some of the others
22:20:09 <RodgerTheGreat> but I will say that you guys are going to want to die when you finally figure it out
22:20:57 <cherez> It will make the rest of your life a nightmare.
22:21:12 <ehird`> something to put us on the vague cobbles to the mostly-right woods leading to the right track
22:21:53 <RodgerTheGreat> I coddled you guys through some of the early puzzles- spread your wings and fly
22:23:42 <RodgerTheGreat> y'know, I wonder if I subconsciously selected and named my fish in honor of these puzzles
22:24:39 <ehird`> i was going to link him first damnit :P
22:24:49 <ehird`> and yes it's forbidden.
22:25:24 <SimonRC> Ah, I thought that was a plain "forbidden" page
22:25:48 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: well, the first puzzle is a tiny bit easier now
22:29:00 <fax> I can't run ELF files 8[
22:29:29 <RodgerTheGreat> fax: it's not absolutely necessary to solve the puzzle
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22:32:28 <lament> hm, what changed in the first puzzle?
22:33:25 <lament> yeah, "404 Forbidden" would be nice imo
22:34:07 <lament> or better yet, the IIS error message but saying it's Apache
22:34:18 <ehird`> 402 Payment Required Because I Am Poor And Need Money For Food
22:34:36 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: this is not a good change
22:34:52 <ehird`> or, for even more heartstring-symphonies: 402 Payment Required Because I Am Poor And Need Money To Give My Children Food On The Table, They Are Starving Please Pray For Them!
22:34:53 <lament> since it's a fairly obvious hint to connect on port 69
22:35:08 <lament> and you don't run anything on port 69...
22:38:15 <SimonRC> lament: I recommend deploying the technique that all web puzzles sooner or later require you to use
22:38:37 <ehird`> Background-coloured text?
22:38:50 <SimonRC> I am not th person to tell you it
22:39:00 <SimonRC> ask someone more permitted
22:40:10 <SimonRC> how does one use blahbot`?
22:42:07 <blahbot`> quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, wapr (use %help for argument information)
22:42:16 <ehird`> if you do use %help, do it in #esoteric-blah
22:42:51 <SimonRC> I was doing it via privmsg
22:42:59 <ehird`> it doesn't respond to them, for now
22:43:06 <ehird`> #esoteric-blah is its official channel, because nobody talks in it
22:43:47 <ehird`> also, %eval still has BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLES, so my finger is on ^C
22:46:15 <ehird`> %eval File.open("BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLE")
22:46:15 <blahbot`> Errno::ENOENT: (eval):1:in `initialize': No such file or directory - BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLE
22:46:52 <fax> %eval Hello.jpg
22:46:52 <blahbot`> NameError: (eval):1:in `cmd_eval': uninitialized constant Blahbot::Hello
22:47:02 <blahbot`> NameError: undefined local variable or method `die' for #<Blahbot:0x28e45e8>
22:47:16 <ehird`> i don't think that'll work anyway
22:47:17 <blahbot`> SystemExit: (eval):1:in `exit': exit
22:47:52 * pikhq is about to go mad
22:48:51 <SimonRC> next challenge: get something other than "Error: Input is incorrect."
22:49:13 <ehird`> %eval "Error: Input is incorrect"
22:49:13 <blahbot`> => "Error: Input is incorrect"
22:49:28 <ehird`> SimonRC, on gulesfish?
22:52:16 <lament> how do you get ANY input to gulesfish?
22:52:35 <ehird`> SimonRC, oi! i'm hinting you here! in /msg! :P
22:56:21 <lament> how do you get "input is incorrect"?
23:01:16 <ehird`> please one basil clue RodgerTheGreat :(
23:01:46 <lament> am i supposed to disassemble anything in gulesfish?
23:02:08 <RodgerTheGreat> but no, I shall not tear apart basil for you- it's supposed to be fucking hard
23:02:16 <ehird`> what was the small one
23:02:18 <lament> ehird`: that does not help
23:02:37 <ehird`> lament, that's the point
23:02:43 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: there are logs. Scroll back and you might be able to figure it out
23:04:14 <ehird`> lament, incidentally, help is lacking in elfs
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23:04:52 <ehird`> that was a subtle clue
23:05:07 <lament> no, i'm afraid it wasn't
23:05:16 <ehird`> next time, i shall enclose it in SUBTLE CLUE, LOOK AHEAD!!!!---><----!!!
23:05:37 <ehird`> lament, why does a puzzle have a name>
23:05:48 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: can you give me a hint? :)
23:06:10 <ehird`> lament, why does a puzzle have a name?
23:06:19 <ehird`> being more explicit than that is damn hard
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23:10:56 <pikhq> No, I just won Basil.
23:10:56 <RodgerTheGreat> congratulations- you are the first person to beat basil, pikhq
23:11:07 <ehird`> i thought you were SimonRC
23:11:10 <fax> how did you do gulesfish? :P
23:11:14 <ehird`> i still need a basil hint
23:11:17 <ehird`> fax, it's really simple
23:11:29 <ehird`> fax, but i still think gulesfish is a stupid name for a puzzle! what use is naming a puzzle after all?
23:11:29 <fax> nothing I tried work
23:11:43 <ehird`> ^ huge, in your face hint
23:11:45 <fax> I tried that!
23:11:55 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: I am serious about this- if you give hints to anyone you shall die a horrible death. You've worked hard enough at this that you should value what you've accomplished and not give it away
23:12:00 <ehird`> i don't even know what gules means anyway
23:12:10 * ehird` stops the hints, they're getting too obvious
23:12:23 <pikhq> I'll give one hint. It can be done.
23:13:46 <pikhq> You'll also be laughing when you're done.
23:13:53 <lament> ehird`: what you give isn't hints either
23:14:15 <ehird`> pikhq, i only have one question: does it involve cryptanalysis, hard or not.
23:14:36 <pikhq> Sorry; I've taken a Rodgerian stance.
23:14:49 <ehird`> i'm taking an apathetic stance
23:15:08 <lament> 15:00 <lament> am i supposed to disassemble anything in gulesfish?
23:15:08 <lament> 15:00 <ehird`> lament, maybe
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23:16:11 <ehird`> lament, what does Gules mean.
23:16:12 <SimonRC> ehird`: TBH, you don't need to know the definition to work out the ppuzzle
23:16:15 <ehird`> that's your final hint :P
23:16:30 <lament> ehird`: stop asking me that. I'm tired.
23:16:49 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: you are being a bastard now
23:17:00 <lament> ehird`: why exactly do you assume i don't know what it means?
23:17:13 <RodgerTheGreat> SimonRC: I'm sorry, dude, but too many hints really destroy the entire point of these puzzles
23:17:19 <ehird`> because if you knew, then you'd be well on your way to solving the puzzle
23:17:35 <ehird`> SimonRC, lock 1 is easy, it doesn't need hints
23:17:38 <lament> ehird`: you don't know if i'm well on my way or not.
23:17:42 <ehird`> the only hint is: think simple
23:18:32 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: I meant, this puzzle is a bastard
23:19:08 <SimonRC> ehird`: the one that looks like a commection timeout
23:19:21 <ehird`> that'd be a real connection timeout
23:20:16 <lament> he did timeout for a while
23:22:13 <SimonRC> well I got the correct pasword I think
23:22:24 <pikhq> What makes you think so?
23:22:51 <SimonRC> I got a page saying "Good work." and some more stuff
23:23:07 <SimonRC> Is there a mis-type on that page, BTW
23:27:31 <ehird`> someone remind me to continue basiling tomorrow
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23:39:30 <lament> SimonRC: did you get gulesfish?
23:43:02 <SimonRC> you don't actually need to look up the word at all
23:53:25 <SimonRC> If you **** *** *** **** as hinted, then *** *** ** *******, it explicitly refers to the thing that "gulesfish" only hints at
23:54:41 <bsmntbombdood> now i just need to figure out how to parse the wikipedia db dumps
23:55:09 <fax> so thats what you've been doing :o