00:01:21 ... are you looking for the term "indo-european" in terms of languages? :P 00:02:42 yeah, ihope suggested Sukoshi might have meant that 00:02:49 Oh, heh :P 00:03:09 although she seems to disagree 00:04:20 Well, "western world" is used to refer to a family of /cultures/, undeniably. 00:04:27 But not languages. 00:05:05 GregorR: even when it refers to cultures, nobody is sure what exactly it refers to 00:05:26 Heh. 00:05:41 I've always thought of it as those cultures derived from Roman ideas. 00:05:48 Also, there's stuff like "I used to like this song". What are the other forms of that? 00:06:05 GregorR: that's one definition out of a thousand possible ones :) 00:06:10 Heh 00:06:54 Sukoshi: BTW, the Celtic languages are Indo-European. 00:07:41 [Though fairly distant relatives of most of the others] 00:07:49 Granted. 00:08:15 ihope: that's not a tenses issue 00:10:37 (and "used to" is not an auxiliary verb) 00:13:41 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:13:52 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:22:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:53:04 lament: I've seen "did you used to?", though not more than once that I can remember. 00:53:26 "Did you use to?" would seem to make more sense, but... yeah, iffy. 00:54:35 ... "used to" is correct. 00:54:41 It doesn't make any sense, but it's correct. 00:54:41 "did you used to" sounds ungrammatical 00:55:05 As an answer to a question, it's fine. "I don't play the trumpet." "Did you used to?" 00:55:10 Erm, as a question :) 00:55:17 GregorR: no, it's ungrammatical. 00:55:20 A question to a question! 00:55:26 GregorR: "did you use to" would be correct. 00:56:32 Hm. According to some grammar page, that is correct in a question or negative context. 00:56:52 Erm, that is, "use to" is. 00:57:16 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:57:36 What do you call that "question or negative context"? 00:57:40 However, it's correct for "I used to eat broccoli" and "That band used to have a trumpeter" 00:57:44 Auxiliary form? 00:58:02 "I did use to eat broccoli". 00:58:20 "I would use to like it" >:-) 00:58:31 Uhh, no. 00:58:36 Both of those are so bad :P 00:58:56 :-P 00:59:35 "Used to" just makes no sense whatsoever. 01:01:47 Indeed. 01:05:56 It only makes sense in that English uses it. 02:21:33 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 02:21:47 Hey, all. 02:23:50 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has left (?). 02:35:00 It is my opinion that capital punishment should be more common. 02:35:10 For example, the news just mentioned a man who has been arrested for drunken driving NINE TIMES. 02:35:25 I think, around time four, they should've just shot him in the head and been done with it. 02:38:52 It is my opinion that capital punishment should be less common, but sane sentences should be more common. 02:39:04 Drunk driving? Revoke license, first offense. 02:39:39 Second offense? Long and hard jail time, plus fines for driving without a license. 02:58:49 And mandatory sterilization. 02:59:41 That's for second-offense rapists. 03:00:58 . . . And, it's hailing. 03:08:07 [lambda x {$x $x}] [lambda x {$x $x}] 03:09:46 If things in the world went my way, you'd be drawn and quartered for drinking. 03:10:15 If things in the world went my way, stupidity would be the only crime with a death sentence. 03:10:17 On a more serious note, I really don't understand why people like to drink (or smoke or any of that other mind-addling thing if it doesen't actually taste good). 03:11:18 Alcohol, in some cases, is imbibed for flavor, rather than stupidity. 03:11:30 (of course, the stupid cases are *remarkably* prevalent) 03:11:40 I'll bet if you ingest vinegar, it'll taste remarkably similar. 03:11:53 They do smell similar.... 03:12:01 Pure alcohol, sure. 03:12:22 I'd imagine anything people drink for taste would be just fine without the alcohol in it. 03:12:28 Except Listerine. 03:12:29 Exactly. 03:12:41 Which is why I like cider. All the fun. None of the mind-addling. 03:13:01 * pikhq hasn't done a taste-test of alcoholic and dry versions of things, so won't comment 03:13:16 IMO it all tastes like vinegar. 03:13:30 I beg to differ. 03:13:33 Some slightly sweet vinegar, some vinegar with an aftertaste of somewhat. 03:14:10 Plus it makes me sleepy. 03:14:18 I find it troubling that so many people see a need to lose their mental faculties in order to enjoy themselves. 03:14:18 That's even worse than the taste. The sleep. 03:14:29 Which makes sense, since it's a depressant. 03:15:05 cherez: I find it troubling that so few people have mental faculties of note to lose. 03:16:39 I've seen a lot of people go deep into negative intellect for "fun." 03:17:06 * pikhq would also like to declare to the #esoteric world that cherez kicks ass; but I digress. . . 03:17:53 Someone on another channel I know said ``I drink alcohol because it makes me more social'' (he's a teenager). 03:18:06 Scary. 03:18:11 With said negative intellect, they did not realize the only fun was being had by the sober people listening to them (or playing Super Smash Brothers with them.) 03:18:19 I said to him back: Next time you want to be more social, blast out your frontal cortex with a gun, and say ``I blasted out my frontal cortex to be more social!''. 03:18:32 The most drinking I've done is one alcoholic beverage. . . 03:19:27 Frankly, doing more than that seems stupid both in that one becomes rapidly less intelligent and that one has less time to actually *taste* said alcoholic beverage. 03:20:49 By the way, my mother is a recovering alcoholic and my father is an alcoholic. 03:22:27 Oh, so none of that "mom's drunk and being really stupid" shit this time? 03:22:44 -!- calamari has joined. 03:24:37 Not right now, thankfully. 03:24:54 Granted, I'm going back to college in 2 weeks, so I'm worried that she might regress. 03:26:02 Methylate all the alcohol in Kansas; that might do the job. XD 03:27:30 That is my next chaotic neutral plan. 03:28:04 Really, I guess it's more true neutral, but I digress. 03:29:02 One of these days I need to finish the specification for Rube. 03:30:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 03:30:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Nick collision from services.). 03:30:55 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 03:31:18 Power outage. 03:31:23 Lightening storm. . . 03:31:51 I dare you to take a long shower on the phone! 03:32:01 Cell-phone, and no. 03:34:00 However, I'm perfectly willing to use surge-protected equipment. 03:47:24 pikhq: Grab a long metal pole. 03:47:30 pikhq: Stand out in a thunderstorm. 03:47:38 GregorR-L: Would you like to join me? 03:48:05 And shout "all gods are bastards!" 03:48:16 THE FLY GODS MUST BE CRAZY ALIENS 03:50:17 methylated ethanol is evil 03:53:16 and, i don't see how you could come even close to equating ethanol with vinegar, unless you've been drinking bad wine 04:05:14 you people are weird 04:05:20 drinking is fun! 04:05:54 With a few 1C capacitors, pikhq, you have a much greater change of getting hit than petty lightning rods and a transmission-line resonance effect. 04:06:06 They just cost $120+ !!! 04:06:40 lament: i agree 04:06:47 i'm out of gin :( 04:06:53 Sukoshi: With just a paperclip, I've got an excellent chance of getting hit with electricity. 04:07:38 pikhq: Maybe, but it's more fun when you use a paperclip to resonate and then cause metal attached to it to resonate to have a paperclip radio on the go! 04:10:35 i can't buy gin :( 04:11:03 Nuuu. Out of mental addlers :( 04:11:59 nothing wrong with a little mental addlyign 04:12:36 It depends upon the means. 04:12:40 Brainfuck is a nice one. 04:12:46 Sukoshi: also, isn't drinking in order to be social pretty much the best reason there is? I would imagine it's why most "normal people" (ie not alcoholics) drink. 04:13:12 brainfuck makes you _think_, liquour makes you _not think_ 04:13:17 bsmntbombdood: Granted. 04:13:27 It's still a means of mental addling. 04:13:41 not realy 04:14:09 Your thinking accomplishes a lot less. 04:15:06 with both drinking and brainfuck, yes :) 04:16:50 But Brainfuck looks a lot more fun. 04:20:18 also, brainfuck is pretty much the opposite of social :) 04:21:02 Fuck yes. :) 04:22:59 (really, who wants to be social when you can be elegant in your code?) 04:24:24 somewhat should port emacs to use guile instead of elisp 04:24:46 use Edwin 04:24:56 s/what/one/ 04:25:03 it comes with the MIT scheme distribution 04:25:12 it's an emacs clone in scheme 04:25:21 completely in scheme? 04:25:37 And sabetts, author of Ratpoison and StubWM, has Emacs in Common Lisp. 04:25:41 i think so 04:25:46 Well, rather, it's got Elisp in Common Lisp. 04:26:12 scheme beats cl by a large margin 04:28:13 bsmntbombdood: then make a scheme macro 04:28:32 i've made many scheme macros 04:29:55 or just get edwin 04:30:31 oh, did you mean a macro implementing scheme? 04:30:42 it would still be obvious that it was a layer on top of elis 04:30:43 p 04:31:04 But it makes pretending it's Scheme pretty easy! 04:32:09 Run Tcl on it. 04:42:02 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 04:42:13 anyone know of an algorithm similar to pagerank? 04:42:16 oh, hm. I just had a thought- the folks here are highly inclined to be the sort to enjoy puzzles 04:42:35 I wrote a bit of a "hacking challenge" a while ago- is anyone interested in playing? 04:42:42 Possible. 04:43:13 i did one of those a long time ago 04:44:15 the only hints I'll give are to be thorough and not to jump to conclusions. 04:44:17 http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 04:44:35 403. ;) 04:45:03 really, now? ;) 04:45:11 hehe 04:45:15 You don't have permission to access /PHP/Example.php on this server. 04:45:20 . . . Oh. 04:45:40 I lose over 80% of people on that first subchallenge 04:46:59 if anyone cracks the basil leaf puzzle, be sure to let me know. Otherwise, if you find yourself completely stuck, PM me with your status and I may be able to give you a small nudge 04:47:46 I'd be very interested to hear about people's experiences with the challenge, as I may be designing a much larger-scale game of this nature sometime soon. 04:50:30 RodgerTheGreat: Second puzzle is misleading in a way I don't think you want it to be. 04:51:31 yes, I believe I am aware of the problem you mention 04:56:07 pikhq: i don't think so 04:56:22 i want a MapReduce cluster 04:56:37 Basil leaf puzzle? 04:56:52 it's deep into the challenge 04:56:58 actually, it's the last "level" 04:57:33 one person has beaten it, (and I highly suspect he cheated), and the other person I revealed the solution to says I'm an evil bastard 04:58:50 i have no clue what to do with .elf files 04:59:51 (and is it 386-specific?) 05:00:17 lament: Linux binary format. However, it's not absolutely necessary to complete the challenge 05:00:46 it's a very subtle and evil challenge, and you'll kick yourself when you get it 05:07:18 * lament loses interest :( 05:07:40 <:( 05:23:47 this is pretty evil 05:24:28 -!- meatmanek has quit (Connection timed out). 05:24:49 my puzzles have earned me the title "sadistic fuck" 05:25:11 I thought your title was The Great 05:25:23 the great sadistic fuck 05:25:43 "RodgerTheSadisticFuck" doesn't really roll off the tongue, I'm afraid 05:29:46 Damned evil. 05:29:53 So close, and yet so far on GulesFish. 05:38:19 pikhq: did you get it? 05:38:33 Just now, with some heavy hinting. 05:41:10 That's truly evil. 05:41:14 And yes, there is a solution. 05:41:29 having fun, guys? 05:48:43 * RodgerTheGreat coughs 05:48:49 I said, HAVING FUN, GUYS? 05:49:00 NO! :p 05:49:24 aw. 06:06:23 And now at Basil. 06:08:40 basil is good with tomatoes and fresh mozzerella 06:09:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:15:54 lament: There is a brilliant solution to the GulesFish. You'll love it once you figure it out. 06:19:37 well, I wish those of you who are still pounding away at it a good night- I must sleep. 'Night, everyone! 06:20:04 Night. 06:20:12 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 06:22:47 -!- meatmanek has joined. 06:31:10 * pikhq should get back into notpron 06:31:24 Just. . . Not now. 06:34:53 * pikhq goeth 06:38:43 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 06:39:41 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 06:41:53 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:01:23 pikhq: rrrrrright. 07:25:46 I should maybe try it, but I don't know much about how Web stuff works. 07:26:00 I mean, I know the basic HTTP queries, but that's about all. 07:26:38 I think sockets and wire protocols are more fun :) 07:30:46 So people, what is arguable the most famous groan in all of history? 07:31:20 ...Groan? 07:31:46 Yup. 07:32:45 The groan let out by Gengis Khan when that chicken bone finally got him. 07:32:53 Nope. Older :P 07:33:16 Adam when he found out what happened to his rib? 07:33:23 Hm. Newer. 07:33:34 Not by much though, I don't think. 07:34:32 Cain, when he found out what incest is? 07:35:34 Why would someone groan at that? :D 07:35:40 Actually, it's the Groans of the Britons. 07:35:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons <-- Here. 07:35:59 consider his romantic options 07:36:25 I gotta say though, those people were pretty tough if all they did before they were about to get brutally slaughtered and life as they know it completely changed was groan. 07:37:24 yep 07:37:55 Then the heathens mated with their tormentors in the futures and began calling themselves Anglo-Saxons. 07:38:10 I blame all the constant European warring on idiots who mated with barbarians :| 07:46:05 racist 07:48:49 If only they spoke Latin 07:50:19 Latin pwnz English. 07:50:35 It's like, all the annoying, inconsistent points of English only multiplied many times over. 07:52:18 But it sounds more satisfying. 07:53:03 Et. al 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:16:11 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 10:45:54 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("OS status: floppy driver is one step closer"). 11:41:49 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 14:18:17 -!- lament_ has joined. 14:23:15 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:27:53 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:32:21 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 14:32:33 hi everyone 14:56:03 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:14:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:14:29 -!- ihope__ has joined. 15:14:29 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:14:35 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 15:19:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:06:35 RodgerTheGreat: Steg'd? 16:06:52 wha? 16:07:22 Basil.tif 16:07:32 oh, stenography 16:07:36 of a sort 16:29:16 I've invented a new word. 16:29:18 "yuse" 16:29:29 It's the word you think you're using when you think you're saying "use to" or "used to" 16:29:34 You're actually saying "yuse to" 16:30:13 Err, "It's the word you're using when you think you're saying" 16:31:14 I like the previous definition even better. :) 16:31:31 a word you think you say when you think you use another 16:31:39 X-P 16:34:06 I henceforce create a new term. A Vogal is a word (or spelling thereof) that is believed to be used with some commonality but whose correct usage is nearly universally doubted by speakers. 16:35:58 Example? 16:36:10 -!- ihope__ has joined. 16:36:48 now that's the tricky aspect. "ain't" might be a vogal. 16:37:36 So, a word that's widely used but regardless is almost universally considered incorrect? That's not how I understood it :P 16:38:49 perhaps a better example is the word combination "that that" which can occur as a grammatically correct pairing in some cases but always seems clumsy and "incorrect". 16:39:28 other examples of vague or confusing grammar could fall into the category 16:39:47 I didn't know that that was considered incorrect by anyone. 16:40:04 heh 16:40:40 it's ambiguous, and many people find repeated words disconcerting 16:41:03 Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. 16:41:35 when spoken, most people avoid saying things like "two, too" in favor of "two as well" or similar 16:41:43 GregorR: lol 16:41:45 [Those] Buffalo buffalo [which] Buffalo buffalo [are prone to] buffalo [themselves] buffalo [other] Buffalo buffalo. 16:41:53 yeah- I'm familiar with the sentence 16:41:57 :P 16:44:05 I think it could reasonably be changed to: Buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. 16:44:31 oh, as an added bonus, I can make a verb form of vogal, "vogle" which would be the act of using a vogal. 16:44:38 RodgerTheGreat: I find that that usage is not unnatural. :p 16:44:54 [Those] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo [which] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo [are prone to] buffalo [themselves] buffalo [other] buffalo [style] Buffalo buffalo. 16:45:33 then saying "I vogled a vogal" is itself an instance of vogling a vogal. 16:46:19 "Vogle a vogal" is a more confusing version of the sentence as a declarative. 16:46:54 I find that that "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that." 16:47:22 brilliant vogal there, GregorR 16:48:01 perhaps the definition of Vogal could be simplified and broaden to encompass anything that could be considered a "linguistic hack". 16:48:09 *broadened 16:50:47 I'm also tempted to make a language around this idea. If I call it "Vogal", then I have a proper noun, a verb, a means of referencing other usages. Throw in tenses and plurals and we have an evil, evil mess 16:53:29 the idea of using quoted groups is also quite clever, gregor- I'll have to consider that. 16:53:59 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 16:55:14 The sentence fragment "that that" is often confusing, but can be interpreted easily if we consider that "that" to "that" that "that." So, that "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that" that that "that" that "thats" "thats." 16:58:07 * GregorR watches pinkish-greyish gunk melt out of RodgerTheGreat's ears :P 16:58:56 He deserves it. 16:59:05 fuck. My jello and oatmeal sack lunch must've gone bad. 16:59:08 The Basil puzzle? I don't even know where to *start* on that TIFF. 16:59:44 pikhq: well, if you recall, nobody has ever solved the basil puzzle legitimately 17:00:02 RodgerTheGreat: Which, of course, is why I don't know where to start. 17:00:05 I explained how it worked to a friend of mine, and then he solved it and called me an evil bastard 17:00:30 it is solvable, it is quite straightforward, and it does not require deep cryptanalysis 17:00:44 URL? 17:00:49 Oh, God. . . 17:00:55 other than that, I wouldn't want to detract from your fun 17:00:59 I hate how you qualify that with "deep". 17:01:45 pikhq, it doesn't require *much* jumping off of buildings 17:02:06 GregorR: you'll probably have the most fun if you start at the beginning: http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 17:02:17 RodgerTheGreat, nice 403 page there 17:02:24 GregorR: I think you'll like a lot of the puzzles. 17:02:33 ehird`: Ain't it though? 17:02:34 Forbidden 17:02:34 You don't have permission to access /PHP/Example.php on this server. 17:03:07 pikhq: see? I told you- most people never make it past the first puzzle. 17:03:22 If that's the first puzzle, then I officially don't care :P 17:03:38 LMAO 17:03:42 how disappointing 17:04:51 oh well. Gregor will miss out on GulesFish, I suppose. 17:04:59 Shame. 17:05:25 pikhq: if you'd like, you could give him a hint. 17:06:23 hmm 17:06:24 j = 2? 17:06:27 RodgerTheGreat: Hint wasn't needed; he got this close to solving #1, and decided on apathy. 17:06:28 THIS MUST BE SIGNIFICAN- 17:06:42 haha 17:06:48 aha 17:06:51 j=2 and i get brainfuck code! 17:07:10 %bf +++++++[->+++++++++++<]>.>++++++++[<-<>->-]<.----.---. 17:07:10 M=96 17:07:21 No fair helping others solve it. 17:07:25 oh, oops 17:07:26 haha 17:07:48 it didn't help me personally, anyway, since M=96 gives me the original page 17:07:55 PM's, fool 17:07:55 * ehird` gives up 17:08:08 ehird`: Slight misleading. 17:08:13 Rodger's fault. 17:08:20 RodgerTheGreat, yeah, yeah, i have this illusion of blahbot` being amazingly magick and talking to only me 17:08:25 because i use it so often =p 17:12:51 -!- lament_ has changed nick to lament. 17:13:39 GregorR: I repaired a lingering issue with the first challenge that might be less discouraging. You're missing out on a great deal of fun if you give up so quickly 17:14:07 RodgerTheGreat: I'm at work + just plain don't care + figured it out and still don't care. 17:14:25 I'm not giving up, giving up is very different from being overwhelmed with apathy. 17:14:38 very well 17:21:32 MEMO TO MYSELF 17:21:41 never underestimate the stupidity of windows developers 17:22:00 Hahah. 17:22:27 "Of course installing into the same place to get that extension back won't overwrite all of my code. I mean, that's a stupid idea. I don't need to backup beforehand. *installs*" "OK - the problem is still there, the old extension wasn't overri- wait a minute, where has all my goddamn code gone?" "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-" 17:22:48 lol 17:22:51 ^ recount of the past 2 minutes. 17:23:15 i want my code back :< 17:23:55 If you were solving the Gulesfish puzzle, you wouldn't need it back. 17:24:09 This is trure 17:24:10 *true 18:30:26 -!- ihope__ has quit (Connection timed out). 18:32:57 RodgerTheGreat: You home. 18:33:05 ? 18:33:13 yeah 18:33:18 I am at the moment 18:33:50 'sup? 18:34:47 If you have a group of packets which can be grouped into 3 major structures, and each packet in these structures only has minor differences (like the Info field in a Range packet is the end of the next range, and the Info field in a Request packet is the next requested packet) would it be more advisable in Java to simply create classes for the 3 major types then assign subtypes using constant shorts in a short type field or is it bett 18:34:47 er for each to have its own class? 18:35:08 Efficiency also is nice, because this is socket code, so. 18:36:51 hm... 18:40:38 Hm. This other TCP stack implementation I found on the net shows that the 3 major classes route seems better. 18:41:06 I'm not sure there's a difference in terms of data overhead 18:41:19 in terms of speed, 3 classes may be faster 18:41:45 Well, it's just that, the class definitions themselves seem pointlessly different. 18:42:02 Just different names for the same underlying function. 18:42:14 but I don't have a ton of experience doing networking in Java, so I may be missing something fiddley here 18:42:21 * ehird` wonders why C# doesn't get enough love 18:42:35 ehird`: Same reason Pascal doesen't. 18:42:35 Mono works great, it's like java but less sucky, it has lots of functional-programming-alike stuff, its spec is open, etc 18:42:47 Sukoshi, Shitty? 18:43:02 It occupies too close a niche to something that's become more popular. 18:43:23 Right, but Java doesn't deserve to be so popular vs C# 18:43:28 ;P 18:43:42 Surely, even with that law, a clearly superior technology with no major flaws vs the competitor should win out? 18:43:46 Well... 18:43:54 I guess everyone would use OS X by now if that happened 18:44:09 A) It's by M$ B) Mono's spec may be open, but C#'s isn't C) Java's been around for a lot longer. 18:44:32 java has earned it's place in enterprise level coding not by being the fastest, but by being the most scalable. 18:45:38 Plus a lot of the recent Java buzz has come from RMS's blessings (or as far as he blesses a non-C non-Emacs-Lisp language). 18:45:42 Sukoshi, A) boo hoo, one company is the source of all evil and can do no good, even if two parts are completely unrelated B) it's standardised by ECMA. by your logic, JavaScript is not open. C) So what? 18:46:18 ehird`: Argue A against raving idiotic Slashdotters. 18:46:50 Most of them believe that the sky is about to fall, aliens are about to take over the planet, and M$ is about to breed the next corporate empire. 18:47:05 Sukoshi, raving idiotic slashdotters can't code anyway 18:47:09 well, apart from in Visual Basic 18:47:15 No, a lot of them do. 18:47:20 not the raving idiotic ones :) 18:47:24 or at least -- I hope not! 18:47:25 Sukoshi: when you call microsoft "M$", it makes it rather hard to differentiate you from a "raving idiotic slashdotter" 18:47:53 ? 18:48:00 A) It's by M$ 18:48:22 I never said I *agree* with these reasons, I'm just saying ``this is what they are''. 18:48:33 Logical fallacies help no-one. 18:48:35 ah. 18:48:39 slashdot is effectively an aggregator of the most extremist followers of every software movement. 18:48:49 okay, nevermind 18:49:10 i still think C# should logically have at least a bit more spotlight than it does 18:49:12 it's a good language 18:49:41 I agree, but marketing-wise, C# was too late. 18:50:09 You can't make hordes of developers change language and hordes of rhetoric change their subject. 18:50:27 Java itself took years to take away the clutch from C++. 18:51:23 oh well, i'll still keep refining C# into a more dynamic language, yet still as nice... the product should get some attention that it deserves; the dynamic-languages community has lots of buzz 18:53:20 Also wait for the magic 10-12 year mark of a language. 18:53:29 the important part of all of this is that the C/C++ monoculture is being softened, and more and more developers are opening up to the idea of working with new languages or more than one. Programming languages are how computer science as a whole pushes software forward. 18:53:41 That's around the time popularity for any language surges if the buzz stays, and it's a bit eerie in that. 18:54:10 agreed- Java is really coming into it's own as of late 18:54:18 (Python and Ruby both hit their stride at the 12 year mark, and Java seems to be as well.) 18:55:11 12 years... that's a bit long for microsoft to keep something up :) 18:57:02 -!- cherez has joined. 18:58:22 well, they're doing well with their Xbox arm, even though that segment of the company has operated at a continuous loss as long as it's been in existence. It's an example of Microsoft realizing there's something much more valuable than money- mindshare. 19:00:53 Someone invented a cybernetic XBox-arm? 19:00:59 ... 19:01:34 an arm of a company. it's a metaphor. 19:06:19 bbl 19:10:33 While I enter the shower, what do y'al think the future of Perl is? 19:11:36 I have a feeling that it will become a niche language (dependence on a VM is hard to push as a feature, especially with 2 already common VMs out there (Mono and JVM)) but that it will stay alive only because of the ``Hacker'' (Cracker) and sysadmin stigma around it. 19:13:54 i think it'll become infinitely more popular in the dynamic languages community with perl 6 19:14:11 and the rest of the perl hackers will gradually but slowly upgrade to perl 6 and generally carry on the same, utilising the new features, of course 19:14:49 Sukoshi: i think it has already become a niche language. 19:15:44 lament, yeah right 19:18:47 -!- jix has joined. 19:30:01 -!- Blejdfizt has joined. 19:41:51 -!- Blejdfist has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:53:14 * ehird` is stuck on the puzzles 19:53:23 at gate 3 lock 1 19:53:30 i get that there's brainfuck code 19:53:37 but its unbalanced, and it seems to go in no real order 19:53:57 the patterns seem too complex to be a simple time-based ordering sequcnce 20:02:58 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:03:12 -!- jix has joined. 20:03:50 -!- fax has joined. 20:03:51 helo 20:04:38 helo with an extra l 20:04:56 HELO localhost 20:05:20 [Unfortunately, I fear that no one will get that :( ] 20:08:26 hehe 20:08:27 i get it 20:08:32 smtp =) 20:09:08 Yay 8-D 20:21:20 Tim berners-lee is insane: "People keep asking what Web 3.0 is. I think maybe when you've got an overlay of scalable vector graphics - everything rippling and folding and looking misty - on Web 2.0 and access to a semantic Web integrated across a huge space of data, you'll have access to an unbelievable data resource." 20:21:29 rippling and folding and looking misty FTW! 20:42:34 -!- ihope__ has joined. 20:42:40 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 20:50:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:07:37 his mom is rippling and folding and looking misty 21:10:22 Gulesfish puzzle... 21:10:53 pikhq: what's the Gulesfish puzzle? 21:12:09 your second-to-worst nightmare 21:15:32 it wasn't that hard... 21:15:35 at the start it was 21:15:41 but once i got the basic concept it didn't take long. 21:16:41 how're you doing with the Basil puzzle? 21:16:56 the what 21:17:07 actually i lost the link 21:17:11 it comes after lock 1 21:17:13 what's the first puzzle url again? so i can use history 21:17:15 and oh 21:17:19 i haven't done lock 1 yet, i'm stumped 21:17:20 utterly 21:17:33 http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 21:17:34 ah, found the link again 21:17:38 ... 21:17:40 but yeah, i get that: 21:27:39 FINALLY 21:27:42 I got gate 3 lock 1 21:28:03 Welll... I got the output 21:28:06 Now I have to decipher it 21:28:25 hooray! all done 21:28:36 now lock 2.... the basil puzzle? 21:28:43 yes it appears so 21:28:59 Verrry interestingggg 21:31:47 If you figure it out, give me hints. :p 21:38:57 RodgerTheGreat: Figure out a puzzle based on the sentence: That "that" that that "that" "thats" "thats" that "that" that that "that" that "thats" that "thats." 21:39:07 s/Figure out/Create/ 21:39:32 * ehird` is stuck already 21:43:31 There is something very, very fishy about that picture. 21:45:16 For some reason, the blue channel looks almost as though it's been tweaked. 21:46:49 it's a picture? 21:46:52 Does the fact that it's basil have anything to do with it? 21:46:53 shows up as corrupt to me 21:46:56 Basil.tif is, yes. 21:46:59 In TIFF format. 21:47:01 * ehird` tries GIMP 21:47:58 * pikhq does a Google Pictures search, in hopes of finding Rodger's source, for comparison purposes 21:48:08 it is basil, indeed 21:48:21 it kind of looks like a fractal too 21:48:39 If it's bit-for-bit identical to his source, then we can move on to searching in the TIFF. . . 21:48:53 the blue channel seems normal 21:49:02 when i decompose it into RGB blue just looks darker; to be expected 21:49:43 very odd 21:50:37 :/ 21:52:24 * pikhq is rapidly getting the feeling that Rodger's source is well-hidden 21:53:23 Motherfucking hell. 21:53:38 that accurately sums up the insanity of this 21:53:39 I found a picture which is identical, except with text overlayed on it. 21:53:48 And smaller. 21:53:51 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/images/herbs_basil300.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diamondorganics.com/&h=300&w=300&sz=16&hl=en&start=520&um=1&tbnid=DsOXfgK_b1L3UM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBasil%26start%3D520%26imgsz%3Dsmall%257Cmedium%257Clarge%257Cxlarge%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN 21:54:02 let's try the binary data 21:55:24 heh 21:55:54 RodgerTheGreat: You, sir, are evil. 21:56:22 I bet you shrank the picture from its original size, just to confound efforts like mine. 21:57:50 img.count [ != img.count ] so it isn't a bf program 21:58:43 i'm stumped 22:01:21 Seconded. 22:03:40 has RodgerTheGreat given any hints 22:04:03 Nope. 22:04:07 darn 22:14:03 :/ 22:14:11 i have absolutely no idea 22:18:17 sorry guys, but this is my masterpiece and my final puzzle 22:18:31 it just wouldn't be right at all to let it go as easily as some of the others 22:20:09 but I will say that you guys are going to want to die when you finally figure it out 22:20:54 just one measly hint 22:20:57 It will make the rest of your life a nightmare. 22:21:12 something to put us on the vague cobbles to the mostly-right woods leading to the right track 22:21:33 ehird`: like I said, my masterpiece 22:21:53 I coddled you guys through some of the early puzzles- spread your wings and fly 22:22:00 :/ 22:23:42 y'know, I wonder if I subconsciously selected and named my fish in honor of these puzzles 22:24:18 puzzles? 22:24:27 SimonRC: http://rodger.shadowarts.org/PHP/Example.php 22:24:31 join the party 22:24:39 i was going to link him first damnit :P 22:24:40 hehe 22:24:49 and yes it's forbidden. 22:25:22 or is it? 22:25:24 Ah, I thought that was a plain "forbidden" page 22:25:30 same :P 22:25:32 SimonRC, :D 22:25:48 ehird`: well, the first puzzle is a tiny bit easier now 22:25:50 it should be 404 22:25:50 heh 22:26:09 RodgerTheGreat, how 22:29:00 I can't run ELF files 8[ 22:29:24 hehehehehehehhe 22:29:29 fax: it's not absolutely necessary to solve the puzzle 22:29:32 but it helps 22:31:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:32:28 hm, what changed in the first puzzle? 22:32:48 oh, port 22:33:07 hey, I just spotted that 22:33:25 yeah, "404 Forbidden" would be nice imo 22:33:43 NO HINTS IN THE MAIN CHANNEL, please 22:33:50 even for the easy stuff 22:33:53 404 Forbidden? haha 22:34:07 or better yet, the IIS error message but saying it's Apache 22:34:18 402 Payment Required Because I Am Poor And Need Money For Food 22:34:36 RodgerTheGreat: this is not a good change 22:34:52 or, for even more heartstring-symphonies: 402 Payment Required Because I Am Poor And Need Money To Give My Children Food On The Table, They Are Starving Please Pray For Them! 22:34:53 since it's a fairly obvious hint to connect on port 69 22:35:05 haha 22:35:08 and you don't run anything on port 69... 22:38:15 lament: I recommend deploying the technique that all web puzzles sooner or later require you to use 22:38:29 SimonRC, wassat? 22:38:35 ah, that would be telling 22:38:37 Background-coloured text? 22:38:49 .. a hint forum? 22:38:50 I am not th person to tell you it 22:39:00 ask someone more permitted 22:39:16 oh shush 22:40:01 how does one use blhbot? 22:40:10 how does one use blahbot`? 22:41:42 Segmentation fault (core dumped) 22:42:06 easy 22:42:07 %cmds 22:42:07 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, wapr (use %help for argument information) 22:42:16 if you do use %help, do it in #esoteric-blah 22:42:18 it floods a bit 22:42:51 I was doing it via privmsg 22:42:54 you can't 22:42:59 it doesn't respond to them, for now 22:43:06 #esoteric-blah is its official channel, because nobody talks in it 22:43:47 also, %eval still has BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLES, so my finger is on ^C 22:44:42 heh 22:45:21 by then it will be too late 22:45:36 what language is it in? 22:45:42 .. ruby 22:45:52 and wtf is this code segfaulting 22:46:15 %eval File.open("BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLE") 22:46:15 Errno::ENOENT: (eval):1:in `initialize': No such file or directory - BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLE 22:46:18 yep. 22:46:52 %eval Hello.jpg 22:46:52 NameError: (eval):1:in `cmd_eval': uninitialized constant Blahbot::Hello 22:47:02 %eval die 22:47:02 NameError: undefined local variable or method `die' for # 22:47:16 i don't think that'll work anyway 22:47:16 %eval exit 22:47:17 SystemExit: (eval):1:in `exit': exit 22:47:20 see? :) 22:47:52 * pikhq is about to go mad 22:48:51 next challenge: get something other than "Error: Input is incorrect." 22:49:13 %eval "Error: Input is incorrect" 22:49:13 => "Error: Input is incorrect" 22:49:28 SimonRC, on gulesfish? 22:49:31 yeah 22:50:12 * ehird` hints 22:52:16 how do you get ANY input to gulesfish? 22:52:35 SimonRC, oi! i'm hinting you here! in /msg! :P 22:52:40 the main puzzle page has a hint 22:53:43 I know 22:56:21 how do you get "input is incorrect"? 23:01:16 please one basil clue RodgerTheGreat :( 23:01:41 I actually gave a small one earlier 23:01:46 am i supposed to disassemble anything in gulesfish? 23:02:03 lament, maybe 23:02:08 but no, I shall not tear apart basil for you- it's supposed to be fucking hard 23:02:12 :( 23:02:16 what was the small one 23:02:18 ehird`: that does not help 23:02:37 lament, that's the point 23:02:43 ehird`: there are logs. Scroll back and you might be able to figure it out 23:04:14 lament, incidentally, help is lacking in elfs 23:04:33 what? 23:04:46 -!- b34 has joined. 23:04:52 that was a subtle clue 23:05:07 no, i'm afraid it wasn't 23:05:16 next time, i shall enclose it in SUBTLE CLUE, LOOK AHEAD!!!!---><----!!! 23:05:37 lament, why does a puzzle have a name> 23:05:48 RodgerTheGreat: can you give me a hint? :) 23:05:57 hm 23:06:03 before i stab ehird` 23:06:10 lament, why does a puzzle have a name? 23:06:19 being more explicit than that is damn hard 23:07:19 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:08:28 -!- b34 has left (?). 23:10:12 I WIN!!!! 23:10:38 pikhq has now entered the hall of fame. 23:10:47 he only won gulesfish 23:10:56 No, I just won Basil. 23:10:56 congratulations- you are the first person to beat basil, pikhq 23:11:05 oh 23:11:05 :D 23:11:07 i thought you were SimonRC 23:11:10 how did you do gulesfish? :P 23:11:12 ummm 23:11:14 i still need a basil hint 23:11:17 fax, it's really simple 23:11:29 fax, but i still think gulesfish is a stupid name for a puzzle! what use is naming a puzzle after all? 23:11:29 nothing I tried work 23:11:43 ^ huge, in your face hint 23:11:45 I tried that! 23:11:51 um, what 23:11:55 pikhq: I am serious about this- if you give hints to anyone you shall die a horrible death. You've worked hard enough at this that you should value what you've accomplished and not give it away 23:12:00 i don't even know what gules means anyway 23:12:10 * ehird` stops the hints, they're getting too obvious 23:12:23 I'll give one hint. It can be done. 23:12:28 that's not a hint 23:13:46 You'll also be laughing when you're done. 23:13:53 ehird`: what you give isn't hints either 23:13:59 lament, but, it is 23:14:15 pikhq, i only have one question: does it involve cryptanalysis, hard or not. 23:14:23 ehird`: It might. 23:14:26 grr 23:14:36 Sorry; I've taken a Rodgerian stance. 23:14:49 i'm taking an apathetic stance 23:15:08 15:00 am i supposed to disassemble anything in gulesfish? 23:15:08 15:00 lament, maybe 23:15:11 this is only fair :) 23:15:34 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:16:07 okay, fine 23:16:11 lament, what does Gules mean. 23:16:12 ehird`: TBH, you don't need to know the definition to work out the ppuzzle 23:16:15 that's your final hint :P 23:16:30 ehird`: stop asking me that. I'm tired. 23:16:36 google helps 23:16:49 RodgerTheGreat: you are being a bastard now 23:17:00 ehird`: why exactly do you assume i don't know what it means? 23:17:13 SimonRC: I'm sorry, dude, but too many hints really destroy the entire point of these puzzles 23:17:19 because if you knew, then you'd be well on your way to solving the puzzle 23:17:19 you'd be ruining your own fun 23:17:21 * SimonRC tries 23:17:27 RodgerTheGreat: well yes 23:17:35 SimonRC, lock 1 is easy, it doesn't need hints 23:17:38 ehird`: you don't know if i'm well on my way or not. 23:17:42 the only hint is: think simple 23:17:55 lament, are you? 23:18:20 i can't tell 23:18:32 RodgerTheGreat: I meant, this puzzle is a bastard 23:18:51 SimonRC, which one? 23:18:53 haha 23:19:08 ehird`: the one that looks like a commection timeout 23:19:14 umm 23:19:16 there's none of those 23:19:21 that'd be a real connection timeout 23:19:25 ok 23:19:28 haha 23:19:30 try reloading 23:20:16 he did timeout for a while 23:20:22 the site was down 23:21:05 hahaha 23:21:19 lol 23:22:13 well I got the correct pasword I think 23:22:24 What makes you think so? 23:22:51 I got a page saying "Good work." and some more stuff 23:22:55 beware riddles wrapped in enigmas wrapped in puzzles 23:22:58 * pikhq nods 23:23:07 Is there a mis-type on that page, BTW 23:23:16 SimonRC: PM me about it 23:27:31 someone remind me to continue basiling tomorrow 23:27:41 ok 23:27:57 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:27:57 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:35:41 blah 23:39:30 SimonRC: did you get gulesfish? 23:42:45 oh, yes 23:43:02 you don't actually need to look up the word at all 23:43:52 i'm stupid :( 23:53:25 If you **** *** *** **** as hinted, then *** *** ** *******, it explicitly refers to the thing that "gulesfish" only hints at 23:54:30 ok, a simplistic pagerank algorithm is coded 23:54:41 now i just need to figure out how to parse the wikipedia db dumps 23:55:09 so thats what you've been doing :o