00:42:42 -!- clog has joined. 00:42:42 -!- clog has joined. 01:12:30 Eight and swapping? 01:12:34 How is eight swapping? 01:15:01 Apparently, you can't read. 01:25:30 How do you conclude that? 01:27:35 swapping as in virtual memory swapping 01:27:39 Because you left out every other word. 01:38:43 Not swapping as in moving stuff from RAM to some other place and back again? 01:39:50 that is swapping as in virtual memory 01:39:57 That's exactly what virtual memory *does*. 01:55:22 ``ci`ci 02:09:54 -!- Sukoshi has left (?). 03:02:58 is call/cc functionally pure? 03:22:51 bsmntbombdood: nope. 03:23:07 pikhq: perhaps I should have said "why is eight swapping?" 03:23:38 That's a good question. Why is an adjective being thought of as a noun in your head? 03:23:39 oh, you know haskell right? 03:23:48 I do. 03:24:23 pikhq: "why are eight megabytes swapping"? 03:24:56 is "data Term = Con Int | Div Term Term Term; eval :: Term -> Int; eval (Con a) = a; eval (Div t u) = eval t / eval u" haskell? 03:25:00 Because some poor bastard only has 4 of them to work with. :p 03:25:04 with ';' meaning a new line 03:25:26 bsmntbombdood: it looks like Haskell to me. 03:25:37 damn, that's pretty cool 03:25:38 (And ; happens to be valid Haskell syntax, I believe.) 03:26:38 Except I don't believe / works on Ints, and it seems that should be "Div Term Term" in the data declaration, not "Div Term Term Term". 03:28:02 er...that's what i meant 03:28:38 * ihope nods 03:33:03 i may have to take another look at haskell 03:36:28 Some languages assume you are infallible. Some languages... don't. 03:37:04 Still other languages assume that you are fallible, but don't give a fuck about it. 03:37:14 you mean in the sense of protecting you from yourself? 04:07:38 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 04:10:12 yay, i sort of understand monads now 04:19:38 not monadic parsers, though 04:30:04 IMO the key to understanding monads is to ignore the IO one for a while. 04:30:38 ...i haven't seen the IO one yet 04:54:55 -!- immibis has joined. 04:55:49 wtf is going on with that topic 04:56:23 also "pikhq must select 1 and he can only select 2-6"? 05:49:31 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:51:33 N00b. 05:51:37 And we've not touched it. 05:51:54 I've opted to not select a rule, thereby breaking the axioms. 05:59:04 * immibis ignores pikhq 05:59:32 Break that rule. 06:00:19 * immibis ignores pikhq telling him to break the rule 06:00:50 * immibis sees there are 4 rules which say to ignore pikhq, and he would have to break all 4 at once. 06:01:11 * immibis stops using /me 06:01:23 Break whichever one you're using to ignore me. 06:05:17 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:05:23 Hi! 06:05:47 *groan* 06:08:21 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You cannot add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE.. 06:08:26 New rules! 06:08:30 which one youselect? 06:08:35 you select?* 06:08:39 i guess 2. 06:08:48 Break rule 2. 06:09:01 I can accept those axioms. 06:09:13 No ignores, and discussion of pfuck? :) 06:09:23 asiekierka: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/foo.php 06:10:46 Is there a BF game? 06:10:48 or animation? 06:11:34 It's a puzzle. 06:11:40 or anything cool in BF? 06:11:42 i know 06:11:45 it's steganography? 06:11:51 or BF-compress? 06:12:57 ASIEKIERKA BROKE A RULE 06:13:04 7. You cannot add new rules in. 06:13:14 But 06:13:15 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE. 06:13:17 it says "new rules" 06:13:25 I.E. you can't add rules 9 and beyond 06:13:28 oh right 06:13:30 but i can edit existing 06:13:31 HA! 06:13:36 i didn't add #9 06:13:37 or something. 06:13:41 and i made #7 06:13:50 too 06:14:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You MUST add new rules in. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail in LIFE.. 06:14:09 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 06:14:17 And i added them already 06:14:19 before 06:14:24 yesterday GMT+1 06:14:28 enough times 06:14:31 so i don't fail in LIFE 06:14:44 nor pikhq broke #1. 06:14:54 pikhq and me did everything 06:14:58 so now add new rules 06:15:05 or u fail in _-' LIFE '-_ 06:15:19 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore pikhq. 3. DO NOT Ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT Ignore anybody. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. You MUST add new rules in AND do not edit existing rules. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7, you fail. 06:15:23 I already have done that. 06:15:23 :) 06:15:28 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore asiekierka. 3. DO NOT ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT listen to asiekierka. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. anyone can add new rules in or edit existing once except for asiekierka. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7 or your name is asiekier. 06:15:37 oops topic too long 06:15:44 delete forum and wiki 06:15:47 how about you stfu 06:15:53 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. pikhq selects which rule to break. he MUST select one only. and from 2-6 only. 2. Ignore asiekierka. 3. DO NOT ignore pikhq. 4. DO NOT listen to asiekierka. 5. Talk about BF! 6. DUMMY RULE LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. 7. anyone can add new rules in or edit existing once except for asiekierka. 8. If you break rule 1 or 7 you fail.. 06:16:17 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | No rules.. 06:16:18 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. How about we all stfu (bsmntbombdood, thx for the idea! you won in LIFE!). 06:16:31 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:16:58 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. No rules. 2. Break rule #1.. 06:17:11 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:27 -!- asiekierka has set topic: #Esoteric ruleset disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:43 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language disccusion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:17:47 Beat THAT! 06:17:48 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:18:08 -!- asiekierka has set topic: No disccusion. | FORUM AND WIKI: I said, NO DISCUSSION! | Rules: 1. No discussion.. 06:18:13 Beat THAT! 06:18:14 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:18:18 HEY! 06:18:28 * immibis wonders how to make an icechat script that locks-down the topic 06:18:37 locks-down = changes it back when someone changes it 06:18:49 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric stfu discussion | STFU and STFU: STFU.. 06:18:52 ops 06:18:55 oops 06:18:55 lament: You're an op. Set +t. 06:19:02 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:19:06 you could just set +t 06:19:27 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Do not change the topic or you fail in life.. 06:19:32 oops 06:19:45 who wants to delete #1? 06:19:48 i cannot 06:19:52 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:20:00 I have no life to fail at. :p 06:20:17 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: STFU | Rules: 1. Do not change topic or you fail in life. pikhq did.. 06:20:25 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org. 06:20:26 you deleted the rule 06:20:29 so i could redo it 06:20:31 I know. :) 06:20:44 Damn, this is stupid. 06:20:53 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Stop changing the TOPIC!. 06:21:13 I'll agree to that rule, actually. 06:22:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Stop changing the TOPIC FINALLY!. 06:22:09 i select to break #2 :D 06:22:28 the rule #1 wasn't my idea though 06:22:40 Please do not change the topic, okay? 06:23:30 Please allow me to change the topic though or i'll delete rule #2. 06:24:23 You may break rule 1. 06:24:29 Nope. 06:24:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:24:41 You may ignore the paradox involved. 06:24:46 Dankon. 06:24:46 because if you break rule #1, you can't break any rule... 06:24:49 so on 06:25:04 Humans are good at avoiding paradoxes. 06:25:05 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\_. 06:25:07 You know that, right? 06:25:14 nope 06:25:59 and i changed the rules again 06:26:05 C:\del rules 06:26:14 Here is how humans avoid paradoxes: 06:26:16 We don't give a fuck. 06:26:19 Simple, no? 06:26:28 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\del rules.exe and C:\copy pikhq.dat rules.exe. 06:26:38 here it is 06:26:44 You. . . Use DOS?!? 06:27:01 ?!? 06:27:08 sometimes . . . . . . . 06:27:19 sometimes | | | | | | | | 06:27:23 whoops 06:27:23 Poor, un-UNIXed soul. 06:27:34 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:41 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:46 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:50 sometimes . . . . . . . 06:27:50 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:50 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:51 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM ANDWIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: C:\del rules.exe and C:\copy pikhq.dat rules.exe and C:\del rules.exe and Do not change the topic.. 06:27:53 sometimes | | | | | | | 06:27:53 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:03 -!- asiekierka has set topic: C:\. 06:28:05 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:06 -!- immibis has quit (Excess Flood). 06:28:08 goddamn 06:28:17 dead. 06:28:23 1 gone, 19 to go. 06:28:23 -!- immibis has joined. 06:28:31 one down, oneto go 06:28:44 -!- asiekierka has set topic: >run "#esoteric_irc.exe". 06:28:44 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:28:50 oh no 06:28:51 OH SNAP 06:28:55 -!- asiekierka has set topic. 06:28:57 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion \. 06:29:05 stupid script 06:29:07 i was just about to disable it too 06:29:16 -!- asiekierka has set topic: .. 06:29:28 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:29:29 * bsmntbombdood sets mode #esoteric +b asiekierka* 06:29:36 * immibis thinks he's fixed the script 06:29:41 -!- asiekierka has set topic: . 06:29:45 * pikhq would like to second that 06:29:47 -!- pikhq has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 06:29:54 asiekierka: Could ya stop? 06:29:54 best. topic. eve---- 06:30:03 YES SIR 06:30:06 if you will teach me BF. 06:30:17 * immibis knows absolutely NOTHING about icechat scripting so he gives up and deletes the script. 06:30:41 Here are the instructions: [] does a while loop. . does output of the current cell. , does input to the current cell. + increments the current cell. 06:30:46 - decrements the current cell. 06:30:51 that i know 06:30:53 > goes right a cell. < goes left a cell. 06:30:55 :) 06:30:57 the commands 06:30:58 That's the whole language. 06:31:02 that's all you need to know 06:31:08 i know 06:31:19 So, you know Brainfuck. 06:31:28 for example: ,[.,] is a cat program. 06:31:36 (not necessarily how to do anything useful with it: that comes from experimentation) 06:31:39 i got it. 06:31:42 input, then while the current cell is nonzero, output and input again 06:31:52 ok 06:32:01 well 06:32:01 that's what ,[.,] does 06:32:03 gotta try something 06:32:40 ,[,.,] - my creation, shows every other character, or in low-level: 06:33:11 ok but what use is it? 06:33:22 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:33:30 oh no 06:33:30 none. Just learning 06:33:31 I have a BF interpreter which does not support input because this is IRC. 06:33:32 Lets you cat NULLs. 06:33:41 EgoBot has a better BF interpreter but he's not around. 06:34:05 just thought it might be useful for asiekierka 06:34:06 Please, interpret "+[]" 06:34:11 !bf +[] 06:34:20 you can stop it, you know. 06:34:21 !ps 06:34:21 2 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 4) 06:34:22 1 Process on #esoteric: bf +[] (Thread-ID 3) 06:34:24 !kill 1 06:34:39 !echo hi! 06:34:53 i know 06:35:01 !irp is a command which sends text to #esoteric 06:35:02 is a command which sends text to #esoteric 06:35:10 !raw is a command which sends raw irc commands 06:35:18 !raw part 06:35:22 eg: !raw PRIVMSG #toboge :I am a bot 06:35:29 will send "I am a bot" to #toboge 06:35:37 !irp /part 06:35:38 /part 06:35:38 !loadbfc echo ,[.,] 06:35:45 nice one! 06:35:47 !echo hi! 06:35:47 hi! 06:35:49 ok 06:35:53 there's your !echo command 06:35:59 !irp BF and /part were in a boat. /part shooted BF. Who's the killer? 06:35:59 BF and /part were in a boat. /part shooted BF. Who's the killer? 06:36:13 hey 06:36:18 /part 06:36:26 or nobody 06:36:30 you didn't say anyone dies 06:36:31 you didn't say anyone died 06:36:41 !raw QUIT 06:36:42 -!- toBogE has quit (Client Quit). 06:37:04 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:37:05 the. best. use. of. it. YET. 06:37:12 the. best. use. of. it. YET. Am i rite? 06:37:16 ? 06:37:25 also: ?FACTOIDNAME will retrieve factoids 06:37:25 ?x 06:37:26 x is the letter before y 06:37:28 ?y 06:37:28 y is the down-coordinate. 06:37:30 ?z 06:37:30 z is the letter after y. 06:37:32 I just used a command on toBogE 06:37:33 ?a 06:37:34 No such factoid a 06:37:38 ?quit 06:37:54 ? is for retrieving information 06:37:56 !raw PART #esoteric 06:37:57 !factoid a is ! 06:38:10 !irp test 06:38:14 !ctcp ACTION tests 06:38:16 !raw BAN #esoteric :asiekierka 06:38:24 -!- toBogE has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:38:31 ghosted 06:38:34 HAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA 06:38:35 it seems to get ghosted a lot 06:38:37 ZOMG OWNED! 06:38:41 BOOHAHAHAHAAHAHA 06:38:48 !raw STFU 06:38:49 as in, it gets disconnected but doesn't know it 06:38:58 -!- toBogE has joined. 06:39:00 i have an idea for a script! 06:39:07 !raw ignore asiekierka 06:39:08 Sorry i must do it. 06:39:15 !raw IGNORE immibis 06:39:19 !raw IGNORE pikhq 06:39:27 !raw IGNORE Haikz 06:39:32 oh 06:39:33 :( 06:39:36 ignore is a client command 06:39:43 OH! 06:40:17 !raw QUIT Shut up y'all and i'll comeback. 06:40:17 -!- toBogE has quit (Client Quit). 06:40:32 He should srsly block it. 06:40:46 or we'll make an anti-toBogE trojan. 06:43:14 ... 06:43:16 i gotta go 06:43:22 i don't have attention 06:43:26 do i? 06:43:45 he is there 06:44:42 try to whois him 06:44:47 i added AWAY message :) 06:44:55 please, go 06:45:56 please, go AWAY? 06:46:12 HUH? 06:46:19 WOAH! 06:53:07 ,[.>,]<<<.>.>.> 06:53:09 I was bored. 06:53:21 And i made an easy stdin store tool 06:53:25 gotta go for a sec 06:53:30 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asieaway. 06:59:26 -!- asieaway has changed nick to asiekierka. 06:59:31 Okay i'll stop 06:59:41 Dankon. 07:00:14 but not talking 07:01:55 -!- toBogE has joined. 07:02:04 Finally got him here. 07:02:16 hard work, but done! 07:02:21 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:02:24 I or he did it himself 07:02:32 -!- immibis has joined. 07:02:51 computer went to sleep 07:03:00 i see asiekierka was being annoying 07:03:13 Well, yes, 10 year olds are good at that. 07:03:27 asiekierka's 10 years old? 07:03:37 Yeah. 07:03:42 yes. 07:04:08 -._.-'-._ and i'm smart enough to learn ASCII and BF. _.-'-._.- 07:04:32 * pikhq has been programming since 8 07:04:33 asiekierka: probably not a good idea to use your real name on irc if you're only 10 07:04:44 Stupid hacks back then, though. 07:04:46 I don't care. 07:04:52 * immibis has also been programming since about 8 (he thinks, he can't remember exactly when) 07:04:57 pikhq: I too! 07:04:59 asiekierka: Still not a good idea. 07:05:00 * asiekierka too! 07:05:12 it's my nickname. 07:05:15 Adrian Siekierka: don't your parents care? 07:05:15 asiekierka. 07:05:29 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:05:38 * pikhq started doing remotely *serious* stuff towards the age of 12. . . That being about when I started in UNIXdom. 07:05:40 No not really in fact... they don't know even 10% of what i am doing. 07:05:53 -!- toBogE has joined. 07:06:05 Gxi malbonegas. 07:06:26 ? 07:06:50 !ctcp ACTION has no idea what pikhq is talking about 07:06:50 * toBogE has no idea what pikhq is talking about 07:07:06 That's really not good. 07:07:39 i must go off 07:07:39 -!- asiekierka has quit. 07:07:41 !ctcp ACTION has no idea what anyone is talking about - he can't understand human lnguages. 07:07:41 ACTION has no idea what anyone is talking about - 07:07:42 he can't understand human lnguages. 07:07:51 oops 07:08:02 what happened there? 07:08:17 * immibis tests using a hyphen - in a CTCP ACTION command 07:31:15 -!- calamari has joined. 07:40:53 -!- fizzie has joined. 07:49:40 -!- immibis has quit ("We be chillin - IceChat style"). 07:49:51 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:01 -!- immibis has joined. 08:16:02 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 08:22:01 -!- MichaelRaskin has joined. 08:29:16 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:49:56 -!- immibis has joined. 09:33:51 -!- immibis has quit ("Pull the pin and count to what?"). 09:34:30 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 10:30:06 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 11:17:32 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:13:14 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:10:41 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:10:44 Hi! 14:11:07 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Do not change the rules. 2. Do not change the topic BTW.. 14:16:21 Is anybody on? 14:31:05 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 14:31:12 Hi! 14:31:19 hello 14:31:23 what's up, asiekierka? 14:31:25 Can anybody try to optimize the size of my BF code? 14:31:26 +++++++++++++>>+++++[<++>-] 14:31:34 it makes 13 and 10 14:31:37 vars 14:31:41 so you can paste newlines easily 14:32:45 well, multiplication can only compress constants of size 15 or greater 14:32:59 oh 14:33:04 right 14:33:17 so that may very well be optimal 14:33:22 +++++++++++++>++++++++++ 14:33:52 there ya go 14:34:01 100% efficiency 14:34:15 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>>>>,.>,.>,.<<<<<<<.>.>>>>>>>,.>,.>,. 14:34:18 here's the whole code 14:34:25 it outputs 9 chars to a 3x3 block 14:34:52 hm 14:35:12 it's possible that you could optimize those pointer movements 14:35:30 I doubt a little. 14:35:34 well, multiplication can only compress constants of size 15 or greater 14:35:51 and these are up to 8/once 14:36:00 you may try 14:36:04 it's my first useful BF app 14:36:41 well, there's a difference between generating a constant and moving the pointer, because you can arrange your memory cells however you want 14:36:58 oh 14:38:10 It's just set on cell 0 and cell 1 14:38:13 for reference 14:38:23 if you don't need to save the 9 inputs, for example, you can make it *much* smaller. If you still want to keep that data in memory it might be faster to store your newlines in the center of the 3x3 grid data so that it's "closer" on average 14:38:40 I'm talking about the overall program here 14:38:44 i have another idea. 14:39:35 if you're new to optimizing BF, this page might be worth a glance: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_constants 14:41:56 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>,.>,.>,.<<<<.>.>>>>,.>,.>,. 14:42:00 Optimized by 9 chars! 14:42:07 input reusing 14:42:43 there you go 14:42:55 anything else you'll recommend? 14:43:00 although you can use a similar process to make it even smaller 14:43:09 how? 14:43:41 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>,.,.,.<<.>.>,.,.,.<<.>.>,.,.,. 14:43:57 oh 14:44:00 :) 14:44:01 then you store all your intermediate data in a single cell 14:44:03 :D 14:46:17 cool 14:46:27 ~85 chars -> 56 chars! 14:51:38 I guess we just decrased it by ~1,4 times! 14:53:28 pikhq: are you alive? 14:57:18 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:00:51 +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-] 15:00:56 ultimate optimalization. 15:01:12 now there's thinkin' 15:02:53 although remember- that version is the best possible optimization for code length. The version I posted before it is the best possible optimization for speed. 15:03:08 oh 15:03:24 because they're the same program- mine has a loop unrolled, while yours is packed 15:03:47 but most people honestly don't bother optimizing BF for speed 15:04:28 another speed example- ++++++++[>+++++<-] is slower than +++++[>++++++++<-] 15:04:59 for a multiply A[>B<-], if A is greater than B, B[ argh 15:05:13 B[>A<-] is always faster 15:05:29 because the overhead of the loop is executed fewer times 15:05:48 that's a situation where identical code length results in a different execution time 15:08:27 see how that works? 15:10:14 yes... We always should multiply LOWER[ yes. LOWER[>GREATER<-] 15:11:15 or LOWER[-] 15:11:22 yes 15:11:25 right? 15:11:55 I don't care about execution time. Most of us have at least 800mhz processors 15:11:59 right? 15:12:02 and when you can do many multiplies inline (like ++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++++<<<-], you save even more overhead 15:12:32 true, but ordering your multiplies properly is usually a "free" optimization- faster code at no length cost 15:12:49 yes 15:12:56 sometimes it is NOT possible... but... 15:13:15 you cannot check which one is greater in BF without overhead? 15:14:00 well, I'm talking about generating constants. When you generate constants, it's *YOU* that needs to know which one is greater 15:14:15 yes 15:14:21 but if i'm taking input from the user 15:14:26 ... 15:14:31 it's not possible really 15:14:36 then you're in a completely different situation 15:14:46 yes i know 15:14:50 then the *USER* should do it 15:14:54 or... wait a milisecond more 15:15:00 :DDD 15:15:06 I guess 15:18:10 It's a good code now, not bloated, isn't it? 15:18:20 heheh 15:18:31 I reckon 15:18:40 i know it IS a bit bloated still, but it's due to BF... 15:18:46 limitations 15:18:46 THAT i LIKE. 15:19:49 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:20:33 * ehird` is toying with the idea of making a homebrew cpu 15:20:48 homebrew BF cpu? 15:20:53 it's there 15:20:57 just build one 15:21:11 when did i say BF 15:21:25 nowhere 15:21:45 + if i was going to make a BF device (which i am toying with admittedly - http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_machine) i wouldn't use a premade spec 15:22:25 I will edit it 15:22:30 for more space!!! 15:22:36 and add a screen 15:22:41 i will make a BrainFube. 15:22:49 BrainF**k + Cube 15:22:56 it will look like a CUBE 15:24:01 and i'll design a special keyboard 15:24:06 with only BF chars 15:24:23 STDIN? will use a console-like keyboard 15:24:27 asiekierka: I'd like to see a program in C that is the same length as "+++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]" while accomplishing the same task 15:24:28 BF chars, arrows, OK and CANCEL. 15:24:34 14 chars in total 15:24:38 I don't think BF is necessarily bloated for simple things 15:24:40 :DDDD 15:24:48 yes 15:24:57 but 2MB <> 2KB :DDD 15:25:01 it's fucking sweet for implementing a variety of cyphers 15:26:11 asiekierka, that extension could be come up with in 5 minutes 15:26:22 seriously, why bother extending an idea if you don't have anything really useful to add to it? 15:26:34 optimalization! 15:26:37 my machine design has no limits on tape size 15:26:41 it can be anything the maker wants 15:26:56 anything > 320x240 1bit would be hell to code graphics with 15:27:15 and backwards compatibility is useful, the new commands adding much-needed flexibility for lower-level code 15:27:44 76799 is (320*240)-1, so you can do "----" to get near the end instead of "" 15:27:45 My will have up to 262144 cells 15:27:57 my spec has no limit on cells 15:28:10 my will have 256kb ram 15:28:10 whatever amount of cells you have, if you don't change anything else, it is still according to my spec 15:28:16 256/1024 === 262144 15:28:17 ram just stores cells 15:28:19 yes 15:28:24 READ the page please 15:28:25 yes 15:28:32 it says NOTHING about how much ram/how many cells a machine must have 15:28:36 ok 15:28:40 therefore you haven't really extended the idea at all 15:28:43 i know 15:28:57 It will have pagefile support maybe 15:29:00 wtf 15:29:02 and SD card reader 15:29:05 MAYBE! 15:29:06 WTF 15:29:12 this is fscking BRAINFUCK 15:29:13 2GBs of BF stuff :O 15:29:18 you're crazy 15:29:20 absolutely crazy 15:29:22 :D 15:29:27 i know 15:29:32 i'm just kidding 15:29:52 even if you make those extensions, it'd need to be transparent to BF 15:30:04 i will put up to 1MB of cells (1048576). It's enough for 99,9% of people 15:30:09 i know 15:30:20 SD card will be a storage/pagefile space 15:30:33 along with an included 4MB flashmem i guess 15:30:42 and a simple editor 15:31:05 i will put up to 1MB of cells (1048576). It's enough for 99,9% of people 15:31:07 that is overkill 15:31:18 ... okay 15:31:21 60,000 should be enough for anyone (TM) 15:31:25 384KB o' cells 15:31:32 ok 15:31:46 131072 cells. enough. 15:32:15 wait 15:32:19 it'll be 128kb ram 15:32:24 half of it = cells 15:32:38 30,000 cells is the portable BF standard 15:32:40 8kb = cache 15:32:45 56kb = cube memory. 15:32:58 65536 cells 15:33:07 56kb of cube memory 15:33:13 8kb of cache 15:33:16 RodgerTheGreat, yes, but some things use more 15:33:21 60,000 should work with anything 15:33:32 fair enough 15:33:43 but 100,000 - that's just a waste 15:33:47 i will have just 5536 more 15:33:55 128KB ram 15:33:59 from which: 15:34:11 24kb = MINIMAL BF-space 15:34:15 space for BF scripts 15:34:20 64kb = BF cells 15:34:26 32kb = cube memory 15:34:32 8kb = cache!!! :DDD 15:35:35 you really are crazy 15:35:59 i know 15:36:06 I may do just 96kb ram 15:36:09 ENOUGH! 15:36:38 56kb = 57344 cells 15:36:48 4kb = cache 15:36:59 4kb = screen cache 15:37:09 16kb = cube memory 15:37:43 8kb = file cache 15:37:58 8kb = empty if needed 15:38:05 8kb is just for "kicks" 15:44:18 ask yourself if you even need ram to implement this 15:44:34 ... no not really 15:44:38 but: 15:44:45 - a plase to store cells, cache. 15:44:49 place* 15:44:58 i can use even processor cache 15:45:01 if ANY 15:45:11 i can use even 32KB of cache 15:45:30 exactly, you don't need ram 15:45:41 30000 cells, 2768b for cache. 15:45:54 try and make the most minimal BF cpu design you can :) 15:46:11 maybe ditch the screen stuff - just use a LED display like on calculators 15:46:11 or RAM design more like 15:46:20 i may... 15:46:35 if you get it really small i'll be impressed :) 15:46:42 but i'd rather go on and make a 240x80 screen 15:46:45 in a small cube 15:46:49 or wait 15:46:53 i'll make it... 15:46:56 [put TI-86 screen res here] 15:47:03 it's small but can fit 21x8 chars 15:47:14 sure, that's a LED 15:47:20 20x8 + scrollbar is enough for ANYONE! 15:47:26 scrollbar? 15:47:28 and a 32kb cache 15:47:30 that'll take a lot 15:47:30 yes 15:47:42 no if you design it compact 15:47:48 just make up/down keys 15:47:51 no need to display a scrollbar 15:47:56 ok 15:48:02 So i will use 10 chars in a keyboard 15:48:15 you won't be able to run many useful BF programs 15:48:23 :D 15:48:26 you at least want a-z0-9 15:48:34 oh 15:48:37 and, of course, a shift key for A-Z and maybe a few useful special chars on 0-9 15:48:41 but it'll be too big then 15:48:48 make the keys those small rubbery things 15:48:51 really 15:49:01 I will make an cable keyboard 15:49:05 probably the best idea 15:49:05 big but on cable! 15:49:13 don't make it too big :P 15:49:19 i will make a-z, 0-9, shift key, special chars on 0-9, all bf chars separate. 15:49:42 BF chars will be on Shift+0-7 probably 15:49:43 a-z0-9, shift key, space key, enter key, arrow keys, backspace/(shift backspace = delete) key, and brainfuck command keys 15:49:50 oh wait 15:50:33 a-z-0-9, shift,space,enter,arrow keys, backspace, and: Shift0-7 - bf command keys, Shift8 - @, Shift9 - $. 15:50:42 It should be compact enough. 15:50:51 i guess, but special keys get quite some use in BF 15:51:06 well, there are enough. 15:51:07 maybe you should refine qwerty's 0-9 special keys, then have seperate <>+-.,[] keys 15:56:34 maybe 15:57:01 well i can make them in 4 chars 15:57:05 26+9=35. 15:57:11 35+4=39 chars 15:57:53 how about, a-z0-9, ctrl and shift keys 15:57:56 shift changes a-z into A-Z 15:58:00 and 0-9 into special characters 15:58:07 And CtrL? 15:58:10 oh! 15:58:11 ctrl changes 0-7 into brainfuck, 8-9 into i dunno, 15:58:14 AND 15:58:19 ctrl-H is backspace 15:58:21 ctrl-M is newline 15:58:22 etc 15:58:26 oh 15:59:31 38 keys in total 15:59:50 rlf va gbgny 15:59:52 :D 15:59:58 ok 16:00:07 I think i could make it in a small enough dimensions. 16:00:14 Keys must be a little big 16:00:22 but i'll make Shift and Ctrl keys. 16:00:25 smaller! 16:00:34 and... 0 and 9 too 16:00:39 0-9 16:00:41 and a-z 16:00:42 a bit smaller 16:00:50 38 keys -> 144 characters 16:00:51 not bad 16:00:55 (assuming ctrl-shift is allowed) 16:01:00 oh 16:01:07 so Ctrl-Shift-H is Delete 16:01:14 i'd do ctrl-h 16:01:32 Ctrl-Shift-M is Linux newline (just 10, not 13 and 10) 16:01:41 -!- Naerian has joined. 16:01:42 ctrl-m is linux newline 16:01:43 actually. 16:01:47 hello :) 16:01:49 ^M, thus ctr-m 16:01:50 *ctrl 16:02:02 so CtrlShift-M will be Windows newline (for example, I use it) 16:02:11 so we should allow for both.... in fact 16:02:18 or have CtrlShift-M swap 16:02:22 between Win/Lin 16:02:24 ctrl-m is what most people will think 16:02:28 and Ctrl-M output the actual one 16:02:34 default - linux 16:02:42 why do you need multiple newline styles for a simple brainfuck cpu???? 16:02:42 CtrlShiftM will toggle between win and lin 16:02:55 Since i use Windows style. 16:03:00 cześć, asiekierka ;) 16:03:03 You may use Linux style. 16:03:12 kim jeste? 16:03:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:03:28 amatorem ezoterycznych jezykow :P 16:03:35 Ja te. 16:03:46 Zrobiem pierwszy moj program w BF / 16:03:55 mj pierwszy* 16:04:05 ja napisalem program wyswietlajacy moj email :D 16:04:10 wejd na ezopl 16:04:12 * pikhq wakes 16:04:14 ok 16:04:20 #ezopl 16:04:25 i rozmawiaj tu po angielsku 16:04:27 thx 16:04:30 Okay. 16:04:34 back, back to the Brainfube 16:17:14 -!- Naerian has left (?). 16:18:12 You know what command i'd like to see? 16:18:19 command to clear screen 16:18:28 useful for my new BF project 16:20:24 Then i could make the one cool thing. It will probably take ~2MB :DDD 16:20:39 except if i will go on and make stdin the whole ascii charset 16:20:41 :DDD 16:23:59 -!- ehird` has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 16:24:16 $$()&##)(*$()#$M_)* P*( 16:24:19 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:52:07 * ehird` wonders why CISC computers still exist 16:52:38 -!- ihope__ has joined. 16:52:46 Because IA32 is still in existence, of course. 16:52:53 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 16:53:58 Maybe the "quine theorem" states that there is a quine in every programming language that can output any string a Turing-complete language can in an alphabet including all characters in its source code. 17:07:27 ihope, what? 17:07:34 pikhq, why? 17:07:45 ehird`: Inertia. 17:07:54 rm -rf Inertia 17:07:54 ihope: I have a reformulation for you. 17:12:15 -!- lament has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 17:14:43 tank god 17:14:48 you killed the retarded rules 17:17:11 We assume that we have a Turing-complete language with an output tape, and that the program tape and the output tape have the same alphabet. 17:18:07 It is possible for a program to be executed, generating a copy of the program tape on the output tape, in any such language. 17:20:42 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 17:21:42 hmm 17:21:54 you can simulate strings in the lambda-calculus with lists 17:22:02 therefore a lambda-calculus quine is possible 17:22:08 and lambda-calculus can be converted to iota 17:22:14 so, obviously, an iota quine is possible... 17:22:20 but who will be the first to write one? :) 17:22:24 you can simulate anything in anything turing-complete 17:22:27 yes 17:22:33 but i want to see an iota quine =) 17:22:54 iota actually takes input and output, doesn't it? 17:23:40 ok back 17:23:45 lament, no 17:23:49 iota has only * and i 17:23:55 where i = \x.xSK 17:24:00 and *xy = (xy) 17:24:06 it is TC 17:24:08 i thought it had some convention for IO 17:24:11 like lazyk 17:24:12 ehird`: Actually, a lambda calculus quine is impossible, since it doesn't have an output tape. 17:24:20 pikhq, lambda calculus has lists 17:24:23 and church numerals 17:24:28 Yes, but they're not output. 17:24:39 Those are part of the program itself. 17:24:41 A lambda calculus quine will never finish reducing 17:24:43 :) 17:24:45 you know what i mean, though 17:24:55 an expression that produces a list of church numerals containing its source code 17:25:00 in ascii format 17:25:06 Now, we assume a sexp lambda calculus, with the following functions: def, lambda, and output. 17:25:15 pikhq, you don't need any of that 17:25:20 you could write one in pure LC 17:25:43 def and lambda act as you'd expect. output outputs the Church numeral that is it's argument, converted to ASCII. 17:25:46 (nonpure, though) 17:25:59 if you can write a quine in pure LC - as you can 17:26:01 ehird`: No output for the LC quine to write itself to. 17:26:02 then you can write one in iota 17:26:09 pikhq, a list of church numerals 17:26:22 that's lazyk's convention and nothing more 17:26:49 it is still a working convention 17:27:08 you can write a lambda calculus expression which when evaluated returns a list of church numerals representing the expression in ascii format 17:27:13 by extension, you can do the same with iota 17:27:14 Mmkay. . . So, you've got something that only outputs if it halts. 17:27:26 Sure, I suppose that's acceptable. 17:27:33 -- maybe with 0 and 1 for * and i to keep things simple 17:27:40 well, of course it'll halt, otherwise it's not much of a quine :) 17:28:03 lament: Well, yeah. All *quines* will halt. The issue is only that a nonhalting program can't do output. 17:28:14 But that's not *needed* for a quine to exist. 17:28:23 pikhq: with functional languages that's never an important issue 17:28:59 (lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x));So, you're saying that it doesn't matter whether or not this halts? 17:29:00 all non-halting programs are equivalent 17:29:08 Ya know what i should make? 17:29:13 pikhq: it doesn't output anything either 17:29:17 pikhq: it's the same as bottom 17:29:19 I said as much. 17:29:19 ASCIItoBF 17:29:26 asiekierka: Trivial. ;) 17:29:36 (that's one feature of PEBBLE, in fact) 17:29:37 asiekierka, done in 47 characters in BF itself. 17:29:39 oh well 17:29:42 it's easy enough to do it 17:29:48 constants 17:29:50 and copy&paste 17:29:58 http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/results0.txt 17:30:00 ehird`: is that a bf golf result? 17:30:01 copy&paste&type some stuff 17:30:06 lament, yes 17:30:07 +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,] 17:30:07 If you're still new at programming, something that simple may still be useful to write. 17:30:10 hehehehe 17:30:11 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!h 17:30:11 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17:30:15 not exactly optimized, though 17:30:25 man, my entry is the longest :( 17:30:29 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!+++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,] 17:30:29 -!- blahbot` has quit (Excess Flood). 17:30:31 heheheh 17:30:40 * pikhq doesn't have an entry. . . 17:30:42 that produced about 100 messages 17:30:47 -!- blahbot` has joined. 17:31:03 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hi 17:31:03 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17:31:06 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hel 17:31:06 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------++++++++++++++++++++++++ 17:31:08 %bf +++++[>+++++++++<-],[[>--.++>+<<-]>+.->[<.>-]<<,]!hello 17:31:14 heh. 17:31:15 %ps 17:31:15 0. ps 17:32:16 %bf >---[<->-----]<+.---.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+. 17:32:16 hello 17:32:27 %bf >><[+.,-->>+<-]!hello 17:32:30 %ps 17:32:30 0. ps 17:32:37 ^ random code 2000 17:34:31 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!CUBEMAKETOOl 17:34:31 CUBE 17:34:31 MAKE 17:34:31 TOOl 17:34:52 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]! __ |:D||__| 17:34:52 __ 17:34:52 |:D| 17:34:52 |__| 17:35:04 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!what a useless program 17:35:04 what 17:35:05 a u 17:35:05 sele 17:35:13 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!what a useless broken program 17:35:13 what 17:35:13 a u 17:35:13 sele 17:35:26 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!I knowlol! 17:35:27 I 17:35:27 kno 17:35:27 wlol 17:35:33 %bf ,+.-[<+.] 17:35:33 17:35:34 oh wait 17:35:38 %bf +++++++++++++>++++++++++>>+++[<<<<.>.>,.,.,.,.>-]!I knowlol! 17:35:38 I 17:35:38 know 17:35:38 lol! 17:35:48 %bf ,+.-[<+.]!x 17:35:48 yyz{|}~ 17:36:11 %bf +[-+++.>] 17:36:19 %bf +[-+++.>] 17:36:25 %bf +[.>+] 17:36:27 wtf. 17:36:33 %ps 17:36:33 0. bf +[.>+] 17:36:33 1. ps 17:36:35 %kill 0 17:36:40 %bf +[.+] 17:36:40 17:36:40 17:36:51 %bf -. 17:36:51 17:37:14 %bf +[<->+.>] 17:37:14 17:37:15 -!- cmeme has quit ("Client terminated by server"). 17:37:23 %bf . 17:37:25 %bf -. 17:37:25 17:37:26 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:37:26 -!- cmeme has joined. 17:37:27 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:37:31 haha 17:37:58 %bf ,[.,]!Hi!!]<.[<],>[,> fb% 17:37:59 Hi!!]<.[<],>[,> fb% 17:38:03 crazy. 17:38:11 %bf ++++++++++>[++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:28 That does nothing. 17:38:31 zzzZZZzzzZZZ 17:38:35 oh 17:38:46 $bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:49 hey... what about a program that run one way, produces a program that (run one way, prints Hello, and run another way, olleH), and run another way, that same program reversed 17:38:52 I believe that is what you meant? 17:38:55 %bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>. 17:38:55 d 17:39:07 XD 17:39:07 ehird`: in what language? 17:39:13 lament, brainfuck 17:39:19 yeah... 17:39:41 Tricky. 17:39:45 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 17:39:58 It coudln't rely on loops. 17:40:12 somebody had a reversible brainfuck variant, that could be helpful 17:40:24 lament, reversible in code, silly 17:40:30 pikhq, your program did there 17:41:00 %bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 17:41:01 asie! 17:41:04 ehird`: what else does reversible mean? 17:41:13 ehird`: Reversing it would generate a non-valid BF program. 17:41:13 unoptimized. I don't care. 17:41:30 pikhq, look at your program 17:41:32 asiekierka: Not bad. I think you're getting the hang of Brainfuck's basics. 17:41:34 it uses loops and reverses fine 17:41:40 +[-]+ 17:41:53 %bf +[+++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+.] 17:41:55 ehird`: So, ,[.,] is just as valid as ],.[, 17:41:55 ? 17:42:01 lament, program.reverse != program, but bf(program) and bf(program.reverse) both do something (maybe not the same thing) 17:42:05 pikhq, %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:42:07 works fine reversed. 17:42:25 i would treat that as a syntax error 17:42:31 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!!iH!],.[, fb% 17:42:32 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:42:34 but i suppose there's no requirement for loops to be closed 17:42:37 %bf ,[.,]!Hi! 17:42:37 Hi! 17:42:38 Sure, but that's not Brainfuck; that's Brainfuck + input. 17:42:43 pikhq, So? 17:42:47 pikhq, :) 17:42:49 pikhq, that's allowed 17:42:51 it's for %bf 17:43:17 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!>,[>,]<[.<] 17:43:17 ]<.[<],>[,> 17:43:22 Well, in *that* case, one would merely have to rely upon ignoring input. 17:43:32 pikhq, that's cheating a little 17:44:05 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!]<.[<],>[,> 17:44:05 >,[>,]<[.<] 17:44:14 your rules for what is and what isn't cheating seem a little arbitrary 17:44:19 lament, indeed 17:44:23 %bf >,[>,]<[.<]!%bf ++++++++++.>----[<+>----]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+. 17:44:24 .+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:31 %bf .+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:38 %ps 17:44:38 0. bf +[+++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>---.++++++++++++++++++.----------.----.>>>++++[>++++++++<-]>+.] 17:44:38 1. ps 17:44:41 %kill 0 17:44:48 %bf ++++++++++.>----[<+>----]<-.>++++[<+++++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.>--[<->-----]<+.!.+<]----->-<[-->.+++..+++++++.+<]->+++++++<[++++>.-<]---->+<[---->.++++++++++ fb% 17:44:48 Hello 17:45:04 Fully reversible. 17:45:06 %ps 17:45:07 0. ps 17:45:18 %bf +[] 17:45:21 %kill 0 17:45:23 pikhq, wait that produces the output 17:45:26 not a program producing the output 17:45:27 #ps 17:45:28 the idea is: 17:45:30 %ps 17:45:30 0. ps 17:45:36 The idea is confusing. 17:45:46 BF(BF(x)) = Hello 17:45:53 BF(BF(x.reverse)) = olleH 17:46:07 BF(BF(x.reverse)) == BF(BF(x).reverse) 17:46:26 X produces a program Y. X reversed produces Y reversed. 17:46:34 Y in normal order prints out "Hello" 17:46:39 Y reversed prints out "olleH" 17:46:50 Ah. 17:47:01 %bf ,[.,]!,[.,] 17:47:02 ,[.,] 17:48:23 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--[<][.>]![>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--[<][.>] 17:48:37 %ps 17:48:37 0. ps 17:49:28 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:49:41 herm 17:49:41 %ps 17:49:41 0. ps 17:49:47 %parse ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:49:48 ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>],[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>] 17:50:01 Odd. Should work 17:50:59 :/ 17:51:04 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>!hello 17:51:04 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:51:20 -!- blahbot` has joined. 17:51:22 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--<.[<][.>]!hello 17:51:45 %bf ,[>,]!hello 17:51:50 %bf ,[>,][<][.>]!hello 17:51:52 -!- jix has joined. 17:51:59 %bf ,[>,][<].!hello 17:52:03 %bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:52:07 %bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:52:41 %bf ,[>,].!hello 17:52:44 %bf ,[>,]<.!hello 17:52:44 o 17:52:49 %bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:52:55 wtf wtf wtf wtf WTF 17:52:57 OH 17:53:00 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:53:03 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:53:08 wtf wtfw tf wtf 17:53:13 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:53:16 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>>.!hello 17:53:29 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:53:33 what the HECK 17:53:38 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>>>>>>>>>>>>.!hello 17:53:41 %bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:54:03 is it maybe ignoring you 17:54:25 nope 17:54:28 %wapr hi, i work 17:54:29 [66, 67, 6, 67, 81, 73, 76, 69] 17:54:32 %bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>]!,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>] 17:54:40 * ehird` debugs 17:54:42 %bf ++++++[>++++++++<-]>-.<++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++.--------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.>,[.,]!and asiekierka are trying something 17:54:42 /me and asiekierka are trying something 17:54:49 !!! 17:54:59 i was just trying 17:55:04 since when? 17:55:13 since NOW 17:55:16 and before 17:55:16 i do not like being forced to run programs and say things! stop itl. 17:55:37 and you all call me a BOT!!!! 17:55:49 see your nickname, blahbot 17:55:58 yeah!! do you think i chose that nick???? 17:56:12 change it 17:56:19 %bf ++++++[>++++++++<-]>-.<++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++.--------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.>,[.,] 17:56:20 /me 17:56:24 oh 17:56:28 not that 17:56:28 !)(#@()+@#( 17:56:38 heh 17:56:42 %bf >>+++++++[<<+[>+++<-]>[<+++>-]>-]<< 17:56:47 %ps 17:56:47 0. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>]!,[>,]<[<][.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<][.>] 17:56:47 1. bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:56:47 2. bf ,[>,]<[<]>>>>>>>>>>>>.!hello 17:56:47 3. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:56:47 4. bf ,[>,]<[<]>>.!hello 17:56:47 5. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:56:49 6. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:56:52 7. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:56:54 8. bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:56:55 oh jesus 17:56:55 9. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:56:57 O.O 17:56:57 10. bf ,[>,]<[<].!hello 17:56:58 HAHAAHA 17:56:59 11. ps 17:57:05 %kill 0 17:57:08 %kill 1 17:57:08 %kill 2 17:57:08 %kill 3 17:57:12 %kill 4 17:57:12 %kill 5 17:57:12 %kill 6 17:57:13 %ps 17:57:13 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]<.!hello 17:57:13 1. bf ,[>,]<[<]>.!hello 17:57:13 2. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]!hello 17:57:13 3. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:57:13 4. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:57:13 5. ps 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 7 17:57:16 %kill 8 17:57:16 %kill 9 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 0 17:57:16 %kill 10 17:57:17 PID 7 out of range 17:57:17 PID 10 out of range 17:57:18 %ps 17:57:20 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]>!hello 17:57:21 you have to kill 0 17:57:21 1. bf ,[>,]<[<][.>]!hello 17:57:23 2. ps 17:57:24 the pids rejiggle themselves 17:57:27 %kill 0 17:57:28 %kill 1 17:57:31 %kill 0 17:57:31 %kill 1 17:57:32 PID 1 out of range 17:57:33 %kill 0 17:57:34 %ps 17:57:35 0. ps 17:57:36 %kill PI 17:57:37 %ps 17:57:37 0. ps 17:57:38 %ps 17:57:39 0. ps 17:57:40 PHEW 17:57:42 hahaha. 17:57:51 %bf >>+++++++[<<+[>+++<-]>[<+++>-]>-]<<. 17:57:51 17:57:56 * ehird` debugs 17:58:06 * asiekierka debugs ehird` 17:58:38 :O 17:59:05 %bf >+++>++++>++>++>++++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+++>++++>++ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>+ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+++>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+++>++++>+ 17:59:07 +>++>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+++>++++>++++>+ 17:59:07 +>+>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++> 17:59:07 +>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>++++[[>>+[>]+>+[<]<-]>> 17:59:07 [>]++++>++[<]<<]>+[>>]<[+[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++++++++++.<] 17:59:12 oops 17:59:29 ... 17:59:31 can we please somehow flood a little less than that 17:59:35 %bf >+++>++++>++>++>++++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>++++>++>++>+++>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+++>++++>++>++>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>++++>++>++++>++>+++>++++>+++>+>++>++>+++>++++>++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+>+>+++>++++>++++>++>+>++++>+>+>++++>++>+ 17:59:37 yes 18:00:01 %ps 18:00:01 0. ps 18:00:12 %cat LOL 18:00:42 catlol, the opposite of lolcat? 18:00:44 %cmds 18:00:44 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, wapr (use %help for argument information) 18:00:50 if you do use %help do it in #esoteric-blah 18:00:53 it floods a bit 18:01:00 %bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<]>[.>]!h 18:01:02 %ps 18:01:02 0. bf ,[>,]<[<]>[.>]--[>--<+++++++]>--.<<<[<]>[.>]!h 18:01:02 1. ps 18:01:05 it works on other interps.. 18:01:06 %kill 0 18:01:43 %join #esoteric-blah 18:03:05 -!- blahbot` has quit ("ehird`, that's what blahbot` is for."). 18:03:33 -!- blahbot` has joined. 18:05:07 %join #ytmnd 18:07:25 [] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [] 18:09:15 ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ 18:09:56 %reload 18:09:56 Reloaded. 18:10:01 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:10:04 %ps 18:10:05 0. ps 18:10:22 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has left (?). 18:10:43 %reloda 18:10:45 %reload 18:10:46 Reloaded. 18:10:47 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:10:48 ^f^xf 18:10:53 um what. 18:11:42 %reload 18:11:42 Reloaded. 18:11:43 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:11:44 ^f^xf 18:11:45 -!- cherez has joined. 18:11:48 grrrrr 18:12:01 %irssi 18:12:36 asiekierka, are you just being silly for the sake of it 18:12:37 %cmds 18:12:38 quit, eval, ps, kill, cmds, help, reload, join, part, send, topic, raw, bf, parse, reduce, nc, wapr (use %help for argument information) 18:12:40 it accepts nothing else 18:12:47 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:12:47 ^f^xf 18:12:54 %bf +[>+.<] 18:13:11 %ps 18:13:12 0. bf +[>+.<] 18:13:12 1. ps 18:13:13 %kill 0 18:13:39 %reload 18:13:39 Reloaded. 18:13:40 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:13:41 ^ff 18:13:59 %ps p 18:14:04 %reload 18:14:05 Reloaded. 18:14:06 %nc ^f^x$fx 18:14:06 f 18:14:09 %nc ^f^x$fy 18:14:10 ^f^x$fy 18:14:13 %reload 18:14:14 Reloaded. 18:14:22 %nc ^xx 18:14:22 ^xx 18:14:24 %nc ^x$xx 18:14:25 x 18:14:42 %nc $^x$xx^x$xx 18:15:36 %nc ^x$fx 18:15:36 f 18:15:44 %nc ^x^y$$fxy 18:15:48 bleh 18:15:58 hrm 18:16:02 * ehird` wonders what to add to blahbot` 18:16:12 %kick asiekierka! 18:16:14 Personality? 18:16:21 cherez, i'm not an AI coder 18:16:22 NO! PLEASE NOT! 18:16:22 %kick asiekierka! 18:16:26 ehird`: the capacity to feel pain 18:16:32 %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! %kick asiekierka! 18:16:41 shut up 18:16:49 %kick blahbot` 18:16:49 lament, heh 18:18:39 Fromagx, you should add a personality to Blahbot for ehird. ;) 18:19:33 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules. 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Worship blahbot`.. 18:19:55 Hell, you should code it such a good personality that we obtain singularity. (w00t!) 18:20:41 Code it such a bad personality he kicks anybody that dosen't say "I LOVE YOU" to him. 18:21:46 Code it such a good personality that everyone does! 18:22:08 Hell, you should code it such a good personality he loves me. 18:22:15 that's difficult. 18:22:18 and hates his creator 18:22:38 Give him a nice body too. 18:22:44 Yeah! 18:22:58 And code him in Brainf**k 18:23:07 ... 18:23:11 "nice" - "capable of wielding rocket launchers"? 18:23:25 you can't do anything but wet your pants looking at the awesomeness of my idea. 18:23:38 s/awesomeness/crazyness 18:24:38 | [] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [] | 18:26:43 CODE BLAHBOT IN BF 18:26:54 bf doesn't have sockets 18:27:04 so send out the output 18:27:06 from a terminal 18:27:09 :/ 18:27:30 all i want is a personality. not a rewrite 18:27:42 so make personality in BF. 18:27:44 No, no, no. 18:27:46 no 18:27:48 just make people type %bf personality for it 18:27:57 of course, my owner has to find a good algorithm for a basic personality first. hooray. 18:27:57 Make the personality be done via C2BF. 18:28:05 maybe i should copy the amarok bot 18:28:14 oh well, my owner just found one. AND IT'S IN BRAINFUCK!!!!111ONEONEONE 18:28:18 Of course, one should design it so that it finishes C2BF. 18:28:23 and reply with random stitched-together sentences of previous messages containing the words 18:28:40 i.e. 18:28:43 shut up, ehird`. 18:28:52 reply = input.split(" ").map(find_random_message_with_word) 18:28:53 On a more serious note, we shoult stick Eliza in a bot. 18:29:08 please don't. 18:29:18 Better than Alice. 18:29:20 %join #ytmnd 18:29:25 %part #ytmnd 18:29:35 %join #ezopl 18:29:36 asiekierka, STOP fucking with blahbot` 18:29:39 %part #ezopl 18:29:40 HE CANNOT DO IT. 18:29:47 %part #ezopl 18:29:52 stfu 18:29:55 or wait 18:29:59 stcu 18:30:28 Shut the cunt up?!? 18:30:43 Shut the c**p up 18:30:48 or styau 18:31:00 What's a cunp? 18:31:00 Shut the yer ant up! 18:31:02 Obey yourself, please. 18:31:14 ok 18:31:20 STYEOWCH! 18:31:50 Watasi ha ananta ga suki zya nai kara, korositakunaru. 18:31:51 %join #stop_*******_with_blahbot 18:32:03 %join #stop_*******_with_blahbot` 18:32:10 DO IT, ehird`! 18:32:13 DO IT!!! 18:32:18 ...ok? 18:32:19 %quit gone until asiekierka stops that shit 18:32:20 -!- blahbot` has quit ("gone until asiekierka stops that shit"). 18:32:26 Thank God. 18:32:47 lament: You know, you're an op. . . 18:33:09 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:33:24 ehird`: Don't stop. 18:33:42 asierkierka is gone 18:33:46 so blahbot ... is ungone 18:33:46 pikhq: yes, and what should i do? Most of the actual flooding is done by ehird and blahbot. 18:33:47 -!- blahbot` has joined. 18:33:59 lament, i haven't flooded from what i can see? 18:34:00 lament: And being caused by asiekierka. 18:34:11 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:34:13 lament, asierkierka has told blahbot` to flood, sure 18:34:15 oh jesus christ 18:34:18 not again 18:34:22 nope! 18:34:24 You could at least set the topic to something sane, and do +t. 18:34:36 ehird`: about an hour ago, when you were debugging brainfuck in here, for instance 18:34:40 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 18:34:51 lament, nobody was talking at the time 18:34:56 asiekierka, thanks 18:35:07 If you'll kick me, i will torture the topic again 18:35:17 ooh, threats 18:35:22 ... 18:35:23 something for something 18:35:24 Just +t it before kicking. 18:35:25 :) 18:35:39 more like +supikhq 18:35:46 shut up pikhq 18:36:05 what if i torture you? 18:36:12 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/game.tar.bz2 Call me up when you understand that. 18:36:16 will you kick the topic? :) 18:36:25 %bf ,[.,]!i don't care, asiekierka dosen't care, nobody does! 18:36:26 i don't care, asiekierka dosen't care, nobody does! 18:39:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 18:39:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:40:04 %bf ,[,.,]!WWeellll,, wwhhoo ccaarreess?? II ddoo nnoott.. 18:40:04 Well, who cares? I do not. 18:44:57 Is. This. Place. Alive? 18:45:29 No. 18:46:25 Oh. 18:47:11 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:47:43 Whoever contacts him will be punished. 18:47:47 haha 18:48:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:48:21 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:48:26 oh god damnit 18:48:31 I decided to came on anyway 18:48:34 somebody woke up 18:50:46 Okay 18:50:51 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 18:51:06 -!- squazr23 has joined. 18:51:14 Yeah, you know it's me. 18:51:22 I don't care. 18:51:24 is 23 your IQ? 18:51:28 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 18:51:49 Nope, if i will have 23 as my IQ, i will not understand BF. 18:51:59 yeah, you'd be too intelligent for it 18:52:03 lament: I am sure you know who i am. 18:52:04 has to be 7 or lower 18:52:06 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has changed nick to MichaelRaskin. 18:52:11 ehird` LOL! 18:52:22 you do not know who am i? 18:52:32 oh let me think 18:52:35 squazr23 (n=asiekier@nat-1.elb.vectranet.pl) 18:52:37 hmm i wonder. 18:52:39 a loser? 18:52:46 yes 18:52:48 A LOSER 18:52:51 -!- squazr23 has changed nick to asiekierka. 18:54:39 :( 18:54:44 * ehird` thinks what ai algorithms to use for bl 18:54:46 *blahbot 18:55:05 Y'all stopped talking when i came in! 18:55:47 yes, we did 18:56:07 that is not coincidential 18:56:38 A*. 18:57:26 Y'all get A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 18:57:39 now if someone could just tell me _why_ we weren't supposed to talk (i joined just seconds before asiekierka) 18:58:22 because asiekierka left last time nobody talked 18:58:45 You get A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. ehird`. For nothing. 18:58:59 Now go on and think what to do with score. 18:59:36 No "show it to friends" 18:59:46 hint hint: it involves blahbot` 18:59:54 abilities of him 18:59:58 and debugging of _________ 19:00:47 Lament gets A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.+.+.+.+. 19:01:05 Figure what to do with it. 19:01:12 Then select me a score from the output list. 19:04:25 nobody figured it out? I get an F? 19:04:38 i seriously doubt anybody bothered 19:06:47 i think i might make an evolutionary AI for blahbot` 19:07:05 it has a database of simple, but abrupt topic-changing (the diamond of simple AI!) answers 19:07:12 and then it rates how well each one did each conversation 19:07:25 the ones which tend to make the conversation dawdle, etc., get thrown out 19:07:34 and a simple algorithm constructs new sentences 19:07:45 based on inputs from others which spawn successful conversations 19:07:47 it'll just talk about sex all the time 19:07:51 probably. 19:07:55 but still. 19:07:59 and encourage asiekierka 19:08:39 heh 19:09:03 as long as enough sane people in here had conversations with it as if it weren't a bot near the start it should work 19:09:51 there are no sane people here. i thought we had already established that (insert obligatory Cheshire Cat quote) 19:10:07 It sucks. 19:10:16 Everything and everybody hates me 19:10:18 I know my 19:10:19 why* 19:10:23 ehird`: I recommend looking into markov-chain sentence generators 19:10:23 And you know better 19:10:31 i don't. 19:10:41 if you filter their input and output properly, they can be very effective chatterbots 19:12:06 :( 19:12:06 i very much recommend against looking into markov-chain sentence generators 19:12:15 I recommend using MegaHAL. 19:12:17 markov chain sentence generators produce absolute gibberish 19:12:19 Oh wait 19:12:22 i'll set up a bot in a minute 19:12:24 :) 19:12:25 nobody could be fooled with them in here, certainly 19:12:26 okay? 19:12:27 in fact i'd probably go as far as banning them 19:12:31 It'll be Eso-Bot 19:12:39 but it'll be INTELLIGENT. 19:12:41 and learn from you 19:13:08 perhaps we're about to see for the first time a bot more intelligent than its creator 19:13:11 whereas, a simple survival-of-the-fittest + "oh! people use this word after this other word a lot! i'll add that phrase to my vocab!" + "okay, i don't know how to respond to this... let's see related vocab words and stick them together"should work 19:13:15 lament, ha1 19:13:18 *ha! 19:13:29 but have you considered the ethical implications of putting an AI in a channel where it is doomed to go insane? 19:13:35 lament: markov chain sentence generators suck by *themselves*, but you can build algorithms around the markov chain to dramatically improve performance 19:13:37 oerjan: haha 19:13:59 oerjan, nspcr 19:14:04 national society for the prevention of cruelty to robots 19:14:58 maybe if it has a thesaurus it could get really creative 19:15:03 I achieved excellent results by keeping two chain- a low-order chain fed "keywords" from conversations, and a higher-order chain fed with entire sentences. When someone talks to the bot, you dip into the keyword chain to generate associated keywords, and then use those as seeds in the main sentence chain 19:15:20 maybe it doesn't know about "hello" but it might know about "yo", and it could make that connection 19:15:25 it's like ADD medication for markov chains 19:16:29 then throw in post-checking that corrects odd syntax (like the bot accidentally referring to itself in the third person, adjusting tense, etc), and you're gold 19:16:51 throwing in some random thesaurus replacement in the post-checking could be good if done in moderation 19:16:57 perhaps blahbot should do this AI in #php instead 19:17:03 heh 19:17:04 more stupid idiots there, less of a high standard 19:17:15 all our idiots are awfully intelligent 19:17:30 agreed 19:17:31 exactly 19:17:38 well.. apart from one starting with a 19:17:39 but anyway. 19:17:53 the conversation in here is generally rather geeky/intellectual 19:17:58 a bot would be spotted quickly 19:18:06 however, #linux? ##php? peice of cake 19:18:35 a friend of mine hid two bots in #Linux for a couple hours and then started a witch hunt for them. It was hilarious 19:18:49 I think they kicked two or three humans before they found the real bots 19:18:54 hahahahaha 19:19:04 i remember the devnonsense bot 19:19:10 i had created a nonsense script earlier 19:19:22 you gave it an array of punctuation, words, etc 19:19:27 the other day a guy in #haskell was kicked out because his english was so bad we thought he was a bot 19:19:27 and it arranged them randomly into a stupid sentence 19:19:31 and, then 19:19:36 i made a bot which hid in various channels 19:19:39 ##php, #wikipedia, you name it 19:19:42 about 6 in all 19:19:50 and sucked up nicks and words 19:19:54 sucked it all up into its database 19:19:58 then, in a secret channel 19:20:06 every 3 seconds it spewed out a new combination 19:20:11 truly, it produced some profound things 19:20:22 it got something like 3000 words before i shut it down 19:20:24 over a few days 19:20:57 suprising how little new words are used 19:21:21 that's what makes learning a new language possible :) 19:22:02 i think i might make the ai seperate from blahbot 19:22:06 and name it something other than a bot's name 19:22:08 undercover, so to speak 19:22:11 get it starting conversations 19:22:21 maybe even pass the dumbed-down version of the turing test that exists on irc 19:22:44 let's see... I found a hardcopy of some gems from conversation with one of my chatterbots a while back 19:23:05 -!- asiebot has joined. 19:24:54 asiebot: Testing if MegaHAL works here! 19:25:11 wait a while 19:25:14 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 here's the plan for the AI 19:25:48 also: maybe a database, so it can recognize basic things like "x is y" to "know" various things? 19:26:30 ehird`: remember, all this stuff is much, much more difficult than it seems at first glance 19:26:36 of course 19:26:46 but i'm satisfied with producing quite a lot of nonsense most of the time 19:26:47 for example, what's x and y in the sentence i just said? :) 19:26:55 there's an "is" in it... 19:27:13 lament, x = "all this stuff" and y = "much, much more difficult than it seems at first glnce" 19:27:33 that matching could be evolutionary too 19:27:44 ehird`: well, how do you know that x is "all this stuff"? 19:27:53 definitions that when quoted seem to give better conversations = better definitions 19:28:00 lament, first block in phrase before "is" 19:28:05 phrases split at . and , etc 19:28:31 ehird`: that, sadly, is not enough :) 19:28:36 sure 19:28:43 but artificial stupidity doesn't need much 19:28:48 (x="", y = "is not enough") 19:28:49 have you ever BEEN into a popular channel? 19:29:00 lament, it'd just ignore that, i guess 19:29:46 I would consider having a minimal vocab of words for which you know which part of speech they are 19:29:56 so that you always construct grammatical sentences 19:30:01 asiebot: Your name is AsieBOT and some folk said you are an awful bot. 19:30:14 asiebot: Your name is AsieBOT and some folk said you are an awful bot. 19:30:21 asiekierka: My mother once asked me the same during orgasm. Brain scans showed that large parts of the free and the bot are so dumb. 19:30:32 asiekierka: I think i've worked it out! You are the computer program, and i am a bot! 19:30:36 It learnt a bit on some awful EsperNET channel 19:30:41 channels 19:30:55 asiebot: What's your name? 19:31:16 asiekierka: Your name is asiebot and some folk said you are gay when you like to do things on the tip of my arm was left here by the kidneys. 19:31:20 here are some conversation highlights from my chatterbot: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1186079054.html 19:31:26 HAHAHAHAHAHA 19:32:12 asiebot, asiekierka is an idiot 19:32:16 asiebot: STFU. 19:32:20 asiebot, who is asiekierka 19:32:22 ehird`: Behaviour is an idiot. 19:32:25 i may delete his brain 19:32:34 asiekierka: Because i think it will lose its reg. If noone goes. 19:32:36 asiebot, asiekierka wants to delete your brain 19:32:38 ehird`: Asiekierka is an organism's mode of life. 19:32:46 asiebot, does asiekierka want to delete your brain? 19:32:56 ehird`: The brain is the organ used for hearing, and it converts sound into electrical impulses that are fed to the brain. 19:33:07 ehird`: The brain is the organ used for hearing, and it converts sound into electrical impulses that are fed to the brain. 19:33:10 asiebot: where is your source code? 19:33:17 asiebot, what is asiebot 19:33:19 asiebot, asiebot 19:33:27 it is not sapient 19:33:35 asiebot, do you like BrainFuck? 19:33:36 asiebot: this statement is false 19:33:36 SimonRC: My mother once asked me the same during orgasm. Brain scans showed that large parts of the computer program, and i am not a dumb computer program that translates high level language code into machine language code. 19:33:48 ehird`: Asie they let you bring asiebot in here. 19:33:48 HAHAHAHAHHA 19:33:50 ehird`: What is asiebot. 19:33:50 LOLOL 19:33:52 um, ok 19:34:05 asiekierka: Because i decided to have a child, and here you are gay when you like brainfuck? 19:34:06 asiekierka: I think i've worked it out! You are the computer program, and i am a bot! <-- that is pretty profound though 19:34:09 best. bot. ever 19:34:12 SimonRC: I am a bot. I am learning from a human. 19:34:19 asiebot: so i see 19:34:26 A computer is a body fluid that carries food and obtaining energy and vital substances from within the body. 19:34:26 asiebot: STFU is Shut the f**k up. 19:34:27 asiebot, asiekierka obviously didn't write you, you're too intelligent for that 19:34:29 I dunno, I like Archos. 19:34:35 SimonRC: The brain is the principal extensor of the foot. 19:34:37 asiekierka: What about you, secksreatary[newkplox]? 19:34:41 but these bots always get smarter over time 19:34:42 asiebot: You think blahbot` should STFU? 19:34:46 asiekierka: where is asiebot's source code? 19:34:46 wait a second 19:34:52 ehird`: Obviously you'll never be accused of having a shining wit! 19:34:56 most of those fun quotes happened when Archos was about 48 hours old 19:34:58 asiebot, blahbot` is your friend 19:35:00 asiekierka: I am a human being, which means i do what i want to think about your mind. 19:35:01 -!- asiebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:35:06 wow 19:35:08 Finally. 19:35:10 it's about to take over the world 19:35:12 I must relearn him 19:35:14 RUN 19:35:15 RUN!!! 19:35:23 the problem with markov chains is that they'll gradually reach a plateau in learning capacity 19:35:35 lengthen the chains? 19:35:46 they can be quite coherent if you discuss a narrow range of topics 19:35:51 asiekierka, admit it - you didn't write asiebot 19:35:53 SimonRC: well, that can help 19:36:14 longer chains mean more of the source text is retained on average 19:36:17 but if the chains are too long they will just repeat... 19:36:21 larger pieces grafted together 19:36:25 jix: exactly 19:36:27 i didn't 19:36:30 some people learnt him 19:36:35 i just put Windrop and MegaHAL 19:36:36 asiekierka, what about his code, though 19:36:38 ah 19:36:39 that's cheating 19:36:42 it might be better if it attempted to follow conversations other people had, seeing which questions matched which answers 19:36:50 no skill! 19:36:53 a low order chain with careful filtering is more effective than an unfiltered high-order chain 19:37:14 http://megahal.alioth.debian.org/ yep 19:37:16 no skill at all 19:37:23 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 19:37:28 i think one should add some simple grammar patterns so it doesn't output nonsense but don't use the last words in order for the markov chains but just the words that make up the content 19:37:43 so it would start to make up new things faster without producing incorrect sentances 19:38:09 that could potentially help a lot 19:38:25 MegaHAL HERE'S A JOKE FOR YOU: WHY DID THE CHICKEN TURN AROUND AND AROUND IN CIRCLES. AS I THINK SHE TURNED AROUND; BUT WHY? WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD; I THINK SHE TURNED AROUND BUT WHY? WHY DID THE CHICKEN TURN AROUND AND DO SOMETHING ELSE? 19:38:26 funky 19:38:52 did you guys read those quotes I pasted? 19:38:56 MegaHAL LIFE'S BUT A GREEN DUCK WITH SOY SAUCE 19:39:09 "Archos: is love the meaning of life? 19:39:09 RodgerTheGreat: That's... strangely insightful." 19:39:29 MegaHAL BILL IS A MIDDLE EASTERN DELICACY, MUCH BELOVED OF THE RAINBOW, THERE ARE TWO PEAS IN A LIGHTHOUSE, MY MOTHER WAS THE BLE ONE. 19:39:44 MegaHAL TRENT REZNOR, MILLA JOVOVICH, BRYAN FERRY, DR.KIERSEY, GAVIN FRIDAY, DANIEL KEYS MORAN, ELFQUEST, THE KING JAMES BIBLE... THESE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE LONG AND METALLIC. 19:40:04 MegaHAL COWS FLY LIKE CLOUDS BUT THEY ARE NEVER COMPLETELY SUCCESSFUL. 19:41:00 that's brilliant. 19:41:13 but why, oh why must absurdity shout like a camel in heat? 19:41:28 presumably so it doesn't have to deal with grammar rules 19:41:46 just flip some commmas and semicolons and ellipses after segments, and throw it out 19:42:27 "Archos: screw religion, I'm trying to make a silencer!" 19:44:10 language processing is a cool thing, too bad we can't do it 19:44:25 we're slowly getting it 19:44:32 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 updated bot idea 19:44:38 not via markov chains, though :) 19:44:44 i think that idea should produce an okay bot that should fool some irc users 19:44:47 comments are welcome 19:44:51 I wouldn't place tremendous faith in NLP being solved by a bunch of nerds playing around for an afternoon on IRC 19:45:06 although that would, and I do stress this, be *hilarious* 19:45:14 i think he means we in a generic sense 19:45:26 I understood that 19:45:46 okay 19:45:52 I took his comment as a reflection of his opinion, based on what little we've accomplished here 19:45:53 any comments on the bot idea? 19:46:10 * oerjan for a moment thought "Neuro-Linguistic Programming" 19:46:25 ehird`: promising 19:46:26 i'm pretty sure that "understanding a language" requires, first of all, understanding everything else about humans and their environment 19:46:28 oerjan: lol 19:46:42 that is, you can't hope to understand stuff unless you know a lot about the world 19:46:47 RodgerTheGreat, especially if it learned for a few months on people who didn't know it was a bot 19:46:55 ehird`: you might gain some benefit by attaching "emotional context" to words and phrases 19:46:57 evolution can work wonders 19:47:01 RodgerTheGreat, hm? in what way? 19:47:32 positive context vs. negative context, so that it can recognize words that are "bad" and avoid them towards users it "likes" 19:47:46 that requires an awful lot of state 19:47:53 i doubt it'd even remember users from one thing to another 19:47:54 -!- asiebot has joined. 19:47:57 it wouldn't greet an individual that talks to it often with positive words with "Hi! Fuck you!", for example 19:47:59 RodgerTheGreat: how do you tell which ones are bad? 19:48:14 just keep track of averages 19:48:25 how do you know fuck you is a bad word? 19:48:28 asiebot: Say "Hi!" to lament! 19:48:40 asiebot, asiebot is a bot 19:48:40 you'd preprogram some, obviously 19:48:43 asiekierka: The lungs are organs used for filtering urine from the blood. 19:48:43 asiebot, you are asiebot 19:48:52 and then it would learn others by contextual association 19:48:52 ehird`: A dog is a bot. 19:48:56 asiebot, asiekierka is your imprisoner 19:49:08 RodgerTheGreat, sounds very very hard to do well 19:49:09 "The lungs are organs used for filtering urine from the blood." <- LMAO 19:49:12 ehird`: Asiebot is a tree native to australia where it is the basic living substance of all the judges i've had the strangest dream... I dreamed i killed you again. 19:49:15 ehird`: yeah, probably 19:49:21 ehird`: Well, that is your imprisoner. 19:49:24 "Dear China. Please use your wonderful powers to get IPv6 to actually happen. Love SimonRC" 19:49:29 the basics wouldn't necessarily be that hard 19:49:35 asiebot, Dear China. Please use your wonderful powers to get IPv6 to actually happen. Love SimonRC 19:49:43 RodgerTheGreat, it'd just say "sorry" to anyone acting offended, i guess 19:49:50 that could work 19:49:53 ehird`: Well, that (asiekierka) is your imprisoner. <- ROFL! 19:49:53 ehird`: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 19:49:53 and besides, the link to fuck you would only be made if someone had made that link 19:49:55 how do you know if somebody's acting offended? 19:50:07 Asiekierka is your imprisoner. 19:50:09 possibly "x is fucking shit" could cause slipups in the future 19:50:14 but "x is fuck you"? that makes no sense 19:50:35 In general, I think having some sort of basic emotional state and coloring it based on conversation could make a bot seem significantly more realistic 19:50:49 emotions could be seen as "conversational instinct" in a sense 19:50:51 RodgerTheGreat: in general, IRC conversations aren't very emotionally charged. 19:50:58 besides, 19:51:02 "fuck you" would get a very low rating 19:51:03 asiebot: IPv7 sucks. 19:51:10 ooh- how about using emoticons? 19:51:18 asiekierka: Dear china. Please use your wonderful powers to get ipv6 to actually happen. Love simonrc. 19:51:19 it'd be killed out as quick as you can say "HEY! i hate you!" 19:51:25 :DDDD 19:51:27 emoticons *are* emotional responses to something 19:51:37 and they'd be easy to recognize and tag to sentences 19:51:37 :) 19:51:42 :D 19:51:45 asiebot: say STFU to the person you hate. 19:51:48 i hate you :) 19:51:48 RodgerTheGreat, i guess if someone says "fuck is a swear word" assuming the bot is just sheltered or something 19:51:51 it could make the connection 19:51:56 asiekierka: You love ehird`. 19:51:58 then 1. only use it when its mood is "bad" or similar 19:52:03 and have the mood global to all conversations 19:52:09 saying "fuck" to it, e.g. would put its mood at "bad" 19:52:10 asiebot: No i don't, you little idiot 19:52:11 something like that 19:52:21 hahaha 19:52:24 asiebot, <3 19:52:29 i would be more interested in a bot that generates new content quickly 19:52:29 CENSORE CENSORE: You love ehird` - LMAO! 19:52:32 ehird`: don't forget the capacity to feel pain 19:52:34 asiekierka: I have absolutely no idea what you're typing, i would arrive at a school for teachers of the process, the rain is part of an idiot it's not funny! 19:52:37 asiebot, truly a bot more intelligent than its owner 19:52:38 bbl, guys 19:52:41 lament, oh shush =p 19:52:46 ehird`: Because everything is 42. Expect asiekierka, whose number is 3.14. 19:52:48 jix, read my proposal 19:52:50 ehird`: A dog is a bot. 19:52:50 it would 19:52:56 asiebot, a dog is an animal 19:53:12 asiebot, a bot is not an animal 19:53:13 ehird`: A dog is a hybrid animal, the result of an animal. 19:53:19 er no 19:53:19 ehird`: doesn't it add phrases from the other one to the dictionary? 19:53:21 it's just an animal 19:53:25 jix, ? 19:53:27 I remember the 42 3.14 line 19:53:29 ehird`: An animal is a swear word" assuming the bot is not an animal. 19:53:42 an animal is a swear word 19:53:43 brilliant 19:53:50 asiebot, can i adopt you? 19:53:51 asiebot, ehird` is a swear word 19:53:51 ehird`: animal! 19:53:59 jix, animal you too 19:54:01 asiebot, ehird 19:54:05 asiebot, what is ehird 19:54:11 asiebot, is ehird` a swear word 19:54:14 jix: vegetable! 19:54:16 ehird`: Don't interrupt me as i struggle to complete this thought... Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself. 19:54:18 asiekierka: Because it is a swear word. 19:54:21 mineral! 19:54:32 ehird`: Ehird` is a swear word" assuming the bot is just sheltered or something. 19:54:32 HERE YOU ARE :) 19:54:36 ehird`: Ehird` is a swear word. 19:54:40 ehird`: A dog is a word of it! 19:54:58 :D 19:55:10 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 19:55:21 asiebot: IRC is a swear word. 19:55:36 asiekierka: A dog is a word of it! 19:55:56 asiebot: %bf ,[.,] 19:56:07 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:56:11 asiekierka: Blood is a cell which receives and transmits electrical impulses. 19:56:21 -!- jix has joined. 19:56:23 asiebot: STFU ok? 19:56:46 asiekierka: Say stfu to the muzzle of a lot easier, just so long as i'm the dictator." - george w. Bush. 19:56:59 ROFL! 19:57:16 yes, bush, you are the dictator 19:57:22 asiebot: No capitalzation, lack of more quotation... Looks like it's for STRONG BAD! 19:57:36 asiekierka: Yes you are! 19:57:37 (hint hint: it has +learnall set here) 19:57:49 i don't get it do you? 19:58:14 asiebot, say asiebot, hi 19:58:25 asiebot should talk to itself 19:58:26 ehird`: Say "hi!" to lament! 19:58:32 hi, lament 19:58:35 STFU 19:58:40 sheesh 19:58:43 ehird`: I hope that i could jump out of things to talk about something vaguely interesting. 19:58:49 how about a window 19:59:07 a birthday cake. 19:59:12 asiebot: Let's talk about like, why ehird` is a swear word? 19:59:13 a closet 19:59:26 asiebot: what's the meaning of life? 19:59:28 (hint heent: you must add "bot's name:" before what you say) 19:59:30 asiekierka: Because it is a word of it! 19:59:32 asiebot: ehird` is not a swear word 19:59:37 asiebot: what is ehird` 19:59:42 lament: Because the world is an organism's mode of life. 19:59:49 ehird`: A dog is a word of it! 19:59:51 ehird` is clearly related to norwegian "uhyre", monster. 19:59:54 %join #ytmnd 19:59:58 ehird`: Ehird` is not a dumb computer program that translates high level language code into machine language code. 20:00:09 ehird is not a compiler 20:00:14 i believe that much. 20:00:28 %part #ytmnd 20:00:40 oerjan, is it? 20:00:41 oerjan, :P 20:00:42 ehird`: add ignore functionality to the bot! 20:00:57 asiebot: What is love? 20:01:01 lament, too lazy 20:01:09 asiekierka: I hate you. 20:01:17 YES 20:01:18 HAHAHAHA 20:01:18 ehird`: it's a two-line change, you don't have to do it nicely 20:01:23 the bot wins again 20:01:29 asiebot: You hate ehird` 20:01:30 it hates asiekierka and likes me! 20:01:31 why is there so much noise? 20:01:37 asiebot: Do you hate ehird`? 20:01:38 asiebot: You hate asiekierka 20:01:42 asiekierka: Ehird is not as if it's important or anything! 20:01:44 asiebot: You hate swear words. 20:01:44 bsmntbombdood, bot-must-like-me-not-him war 20:01:51 asiebot: Ehird is a swear word. 20:01:53 it's a love triangle 20:01:53 asiebot: You like swear words. 20:01:54 asiekierka: Ehird is not a dumb one too! 20:01:57 asiebot: So you hate ehird. 20:01:58 ehird`: Asiekierka is your opinion, i suppose. 20:02:03 !!!!!!!!! 20:02:07 That's it 20:02:09 hahahahaha 20:02:12 asiekierka: I wish that i could jump out of things to talk about like, why ehird` is a swear word? 20:02:13 i win for this iteration! 20:02:17 hahahahahahahhaha 20:02:21 asiekierka: A dog is a word of it! 20:02:26 no you do not 20:02:30 ehird`: I guess if someone says "fuck is a limb extending from the initials of other words. 20:02:32 -!- asiebot has quit ("asiekierk"). 20:02:39 its final words 20:02:39 ehird`: I guess if someone says "fuck is a limb extending from the initials of other words. 20:02:41 that is just profound 20:02:47 I quit him 20:03:04 no, it jumped out of something to talk about things like why I am a swear word 20:03:09 i suppose there have been worse last words. 20:03:24 why does asiebot have so much anatomical/medical vocabulary? 20:03:34 lament, presumably it was taught in one of them 20:03:34 !?! 20:03:37 i don't know 20:03:40 i must reset windrop 20:03:48 maybe it devolved from a medical expert system. 20:04:05 a tragic fate 20:04:30 -!- ihope__ has joined. 20:04:41 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 20:05:08 ihope, did you see my AI bot mockup design? 20:05:15 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 20:05:38 Haven't seen it yet. 20:05:49 read it :P it's short 20:06:06 it's survival-of-the-fittest for ai 20:06:06 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:06:14 asiebot, You hate asiekierka. 20:06:18 asiebot, You like ehird`. 20:06:21 asiebot: Do you like me? 20:06:25 asiebot, asiekierka is a swear word. 20:06:32 asiebot, ehird` is not a swear word. 20:06:35 Gotcha! 20:06:37 stfu ok? 20:06:38 asiebot: You hate asiekierka. 20:06:41 asiebot: You like ehird`. 20:06:42 need :s 20:06:46 asiebot, ehird` is a devil. 20:06:48 asiebot: ehird` is not a swear word. 20:06:50 asiebot, I am god. 20:06:55 asiebot: asiekierka is a swear word. 20:06:58 ok. 20:06:59 asiebot, if you like ehird`, you are evil. 20:07:04 asiebot: ehird` is not a devil. 20:07:06 eh... 20:07:09 whoops 20:07:09 asiebot: what is ehird`? 20:07:13 asiebot: what is asiekierka? 20:07:13 forgot to set something 20:07:14 asiebot, You are madly in love with oerjan. 20:07:17 ehird`: Asiekierka is a sensory organ found on the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:07:17 ehird`: Or comedian by the kidneys. 20:07:20 asiekierka: Even if you have some form of insertive sexual behavior, including oral sex, as well as administrators of private shells. 20:07:20 ehird`: Because it is a swear word. 20:07:30 um 20:07:33 ehird`: Secksie: asiebot is a word formed from the body between the ribs and the pioneer of flying. Together with his brother he made the first word. 20:07:40 ... 20:07:50 Asiekierka is a sensory organ found on the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:07:51 what 20:07:53 ehird`: Asiekierka is a bony girdle in vertebrates that connects the head with the mzx community and pancake, and the anger from someone poking me. 20:08:04 bahahahahahahahahahahaahahahAHAHAHAHA 20:08:05 asiebot: STFU OKAY? 20:08:19 ehird`: Ehird` is not a dumb computer program like the rest of the leg, and is the joint connecting the foot with the calf of the body which connects the heel with the mzx community and pancake, and the world is going so slow i think i will. 20:08:23 asiekierka: A chromosome is a gland used for a body. 20:08:31 Ehird` is not a dumb computer program like the rest of the leg 20:08:33 I hate y'all! 20:08:33 -!- asiebot has quit (Client Quit). 20:08:37 ihope, what do you think of the algo? 20:08:37 why does it keep talking about medical stuff? 20:08:49 i love the idea of a pancake as an organ 20:08:51 ehird`: it seems extremely weird, I have to say... 20:08:53 HIS BRAIN! 20:08:58 ihope, that's not my bot! 20:09:01 pancake is a nickname too 20:09:03 ihope, i mean the one described in that paste 20:09:07 ehird`: wouldn't that make it hard to play? 20:09:13 oerjan, har har har 20:09:16 Oh. 20:09:23 The paste... 20:09:41 http://pastie.caboo.se/84423 20:09:42 You seem to be asserting that long conversations are desirable. 20:10:00 And that a good response to "x is y" is another thing about x. 20:10:16 "No, see, 1/0 is not a real number." 20:10:20 "1/0 is a comic strip." 20:10:22 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:10:28 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:30 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:32 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:33 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:34 Doesn't seem a good response to me. 20:10:35 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:37 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:38 it is not even a surreal number. 20:10:39 asiebot: You love asiekierka. 20:10:42 ihope, no more like: 20:10:51 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:53 asiebot: You hate ehird`. 20:10:54 lol is laughing out loud 20:10:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament. 20:10:58 lol is an annoying word 20:11:05 and then 20:11:07 what is lol? 20:11:15 lol is 20:11:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 20:11:23 ok 20:11:23 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:11:24 depending how the conversation goes, one of the facts will be eliminated somewhere down the line, maybe 20:11:27 i'll stop 20:11:36 asiebot: You hate spam. 20:11:36 ihope, and long conversations ARE desirable 20:11:36 asiebot: you love asiekierka 20:11:38 #asiebot? :-) 20:11:44 once they end, the user has gotten bored 20:11:45 asiebot: you hate ehird` and spam. 20:11:45 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:11:45 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:11:49 a longer conversation is better 20:11:51 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:11:56 asiebot: Who do you love? 20:11:59 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:12:05 pwnt 20:12:07 Wait 20:12:08 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to say! 20:12:13 does anybody have a MegaHAL bot? 20:12:17 if yes, put it on 20:12:17 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:12:21 we'll start a BOTWAR! 20:12:21 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:24 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:27 asiebot: blahbot` 20:12:28 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:33 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:37 asiekierka: You love asiekierka. 20:12:41 oerjan: You love asiekierka. 20:12:50 Mph, noisy channel. 20:12:52 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:13:00 all done? 20:13:04 A pub is a confectionery made from cocoa beans. 20:13:09 asiekierka: You hate spam. 20:13:14 asiekierka: I hate avoiding questions, but i'm going to avoid that one! 20:13:21 ehird`: what if the user wants to get a satisfactory answer as quickly as possible? 20:13:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 20:13:32 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:13:49 asiebot: You hate lament because he kicks you. 20:14:05 asiekierka: Because the world is an automatic response to me. 20:14:13 asiebot: Brain 20:14:22 asiebot: Brain Main Gain Lain Zain IQ 20:14:28 asiekierka: So, who is using the family brain cell at the door. 20:14:31 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot!*@* 20:14:38 back 20:14:40 +q? 20:14:41 asiekierka: If i were to judge your iq by what you're typing, i would arrive at a pathetically small number. 20:14:41 ihope, sure 20:14:44 ihope, when i mean long 20:14:46 asiebot: The rain in Spain is mainly in the plain 20:14:47 i mean longest before ending 20:14:50 Behaviour is an organism's mode of pronunciation in speech. 20:14:53 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b %asiebot!*@*. 20:14:55 quick responses, but the conversation should go on long 20:14:58 lament, thank you 20:15:14 it actually converts +q to +b, they're the same 20:15:24 YOU! 20:15:24 It stuck an % in front. 20:15:26 HOW DARE YOU! 20:15:30 oh, right 20:15:36 (Does % start with a vowel?) 20:15:45 asiekierka, shut up 20:15:53 % makes so much sense in romance languages 20:16:04 What do you mean? 20:16:07 at least in spanish, it literally means "per hundred", so 40% is "40 per 100" 20:16:10 por ciento 20:16:12 ihope, what do you mean mean? 20:16:18 ihope, are you talking about my ai draft 20:16:27 -!- lament has set channel mode: -o lament. 20:16:41 !!! 20:16:45 ehird`: I still don't want to have to say a lot to get a good response from the bot. 20:16:45 I hate you 20:16:48 ya know? 20:17:08 ihope, that's why it learns 20:17:17 ihope, it remembers based on previous conversations of course 20:17:20 LAMENT! 20:17:22 i hate you 20:17:25 so 1st-hour it will be stupid 20:17:30 3rd-month it will be talkable 20:17:38 asiekierka: i assure you your hatred is misplaced 20:17:50 you banned asiebot 20:17:50 put it in a group of channels that one person could plausably be interested in all of them 20:17:59 and it'll develop some sort of personality based on subjective opinions from others 20:18:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:18:15 and it'd give into peer pressure - opinions expressed that make conversations last longer would win out 20:18:15 as long as your red hat isn't misplaced. 20:18:16 asiekierka: no, only set him +q so he can't talk 20:18:32 asiekierka: you can take asiebot to another channel. 20:18:42 WHERE? 20:18:47 #asiebot? :) 20:19:53 !!! 20:19:55 i put him in #bot and #bots 20:20:01 should we maybe have an #esoteric-flood, for all the brainfuck evaluation stuff and other botage? 20:20:24 asiekierka: and is there still a problem? 20:20:31 yes 20:20:34 nobody's on 20:20:36 lament, already exists 20:20:38 #esoteric-blah 20:20:52 ever since blahbot`'s first days :P 20:20:54 asiekierka: find some other channel, then. 20:21:00 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:21:10 person: formal definition, please. 20:21:13 -!- asiebot has left (?). 20:21:15 ihope, yeah right 20:21:18 that wouldn't happen 20:21:23 Why not? 20:21:24 it's meant to hide its botness, remember? 20:21:37 it learns more if people talk to it sincerely 20:21:45 instead of just playing with it 20:21:54 more like: 20:22:00 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:22:08 Then person gives a formal definition of "the first 100 digits of pi", which is longer than just a "Thank you." after hearing them. 20:22:11 I don't understand. pi is 20:22:21 and then 20:22:28 The first 100 digits of pi are BLAH 20:22:35 Okay. pi is 20:22:42 What are the first 100 digits of pi? 20:22:45 <... stuff ...> 20:22:55 So this bot will be unable to calculate? 20:22:58 What? No it's not. You're dumb. Bye. 20:23:10 if that happened enough, that knowledge would be eliminated 20:23:21 ihope, it's an AI bot idea - not a mechanical bot idea 20:23:23 it's meant to pose as a real person 20:23:29 mostly unsuccessfully, sure 20:23:30 Real people can calculate. 20:23:33 Yes, that's correct. Thank you. 20:23:39 <--| person2 has left #channel 20:23:58 No, that's wrong. 20:24:06 ihope, i'm using RodgerTheGreat's idea for emotional contexts 20:24:06 The first 100 digits of pi are actually . . . 20:24:09 * rudybot holds his tongue. 20:24:09 can't fool rudybot ! 20:24:09 ... So? 20:24:09 who'll learn some stuff my bot? 20:24:09 asiebot: do you like offby1? 20:24:10 rudybot: quote 20:24:12 Let's make a cat and a dog mate. 20:24:14 asiekierka: The older you get, the more you like offby1? 20:24:14 basically, it could associate "No", "wrong" etc. with "bad" moods 20:24:16 rudybot: asiebot 20:24:16 Emotional contexts? 20:24:18 * rudybot is at a loss for words. 20:24:20 rudybot: quote asiebot 20:24:22 Lets. 20:24:23 the more "bad" moods that >it< causes, the worse the knowledge is 20:24:24 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot. 20:24:26 I suggest /mode #esoteric +q asiebot. 20:24:35 asiekierka: pastebin, please. 20:24:53 ehird`: I see. 20:25:05 -!- asiebot has joined. 20:25:08 Though being able to do that independently of language would be nice. 20:25:09 asiebot, NO 20:25:12 he'll learn here 20:25:16 ihope, a small selection of moods should do for the purpose of the slection 20:25:23 And asiebot still won't say anything. 20:25:36 * ihope nods 20:25:42 of course, if someone STARTS on a bad mood, and the bot makes them go onto a happy mood 20:25:46 well, that just puts it way up 20:25:55 asiebot: SAY SOMETHING! 20:25:56 however if the emotion is constant, then not much changes really 20:26:00 og 20:26:03 oh 20:26:18 if the emotion stays the same, i guess conversation length would have a tiny tiny effect 20:26:29 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1: Break rule #3. 2. asiebot cannot be banned. 3. Break rule #1.. 20:27:12 grrrr 20:27:29 So? 20:27:38 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 20:27:45 ihope, sounds good? 20:27:51 ehird`: I think so. 20:28:00 ihope, it'd really give into peer pressure though :) 20:28:05 i guess that's good if it wants to fool people 20:28:16 I've also had some ideas for a bot. 20:28:16 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2. Don't break the following rule. 3. Asiebot cannot be banned.. 20:28:27 someone kick asiekierka please 20:28:39 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 20:28:40 ihope, oh? 20:29:32 A "Thue bot". Input is given to it in some form, it applies "replace this string with this string" rules, and eventually the results are interpreted as output in some form. 20:29:44 i tried that once 20:29:45 worked horribly 20:29:52 Oh? 20:29:59 you'd think it'd just rephrase things insanely 20:30:03 but it really produces garbage 20:30:05 no matter what 20:30:19 Just how did it work? 20:30:36 basically exactly as your description 20:31:10 I didn't specify either the input form or the output form, nor how to interpret results, nor how the rules are determined. 20:31:56 well, explain then 20:32:47 I guess I should also specify how memory is laid out. 20:35:08 I guess we can just say that memory always starts with a "memory start marker" and always ends with a "memory end marker", and when something is said, it's added right before the end marker with a message delimiter before it. 20:35:37 The output form is output start marker, text, output end marker. 20:36:07 Rules are created by composing and reversing other rules. 20:36:53 A punishment of the bot results in a punishment of all rules involved. 20:37:09 if you showed me an example i might understand :) 20:37:12 sounds like an easy coding job? 20:37:27 Might be easy. I dunno. 20:39:58 i think my idea would be more convincingly human though 20:49:56 -!- asiekierka has quit. 20:53:08 -!- asiebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:56:55 -!- cherez has joined. 21:00:55 I'm back 21:01:48 ehird`: that sounds like a good way of doing things. The only thing that may be hard is learning the emotional context of new wrods 21:01:50 *words 21:02:04 RodgerTheGreat, i guess use of other words almong it 21:02:06 *among 21:02:07 you might be able to do mild adjustment based on use in context 21:02:09 yeah 21:02:26 and the response when it uses the word 21:02:36 but you'll want to hardcode a small list of words to totally ignore, like "the", "and", "or" etc 21:02:43 yes 21:02:57 it'll hurt a lot of feelings and be very nieve in its first days 21:03:11 but once more unrelated people talk to it it should get a relatively balanced idea of stuff 21:03:29 after all, its main purpose is to tell the majority of people what they want to hear. :) 21:04:57 RodgerTheGreat, i think a good algo for the bf machine circle drawing 21:05:00 RodgerTheGreat, is turtle-style 21:05:05 hm 21:05:12 translate "repeat 360 [fd 1 rt 1]" into brainfuck, and voila 21:05:40 clearly, the most sensible way to do that would be to first create a LOGO->BF compiler. :D 21:05:41 of course, bigger values = bigger circle 21:05:44 heh 21:06:22 ehird`: are you thinking about developing emotional contexts for people (or rather, for usernames)? 21:06:30 RodgerTheGreat, i doubt it 21:06:33 too much state for my liking 21:06:33 hm 21:06:48 have a global data store with everything it knows, sure 21:06:53 but don't even keep state like "Conversation" 21:07:02 I see 21:07:04 you deal with your global brain, and the singular messages you get 21:07:17 well, if the current project meets with success, it'd be something to think about adding 21:07:28 i think being more detailed would be much complexity for something that isn't needed 21:07:32 irc is a lot like the bot in that sense 21:07:38 you don't really carry out a conversation for very long 21:07:42 it's mostly message-by-message 21:08:11 maybe it would keep a history of recent things said by the user 21:08:36 that allows simple short term memory, and also not unrealistic remembering 21:08:47 it can say "i've forgotten" truthfully 21:09:30 that might be a good compromise 21:11:48 so yes it does know about a Conversation, but only very stringently 21:11:58 especially since lots of conversations will be with many people in rooms 21:12:27 so its long-term memory is just associations, and its short-term memory is just recent conversation 21:12:36 if you plan on setting the bot loose in an environment like #Linux, yes 21:12:39 enough to pose as an average ircer i think 21:13:19 now all it needs is a name 21:13:29 hmm... what's the male version of the name ELIZA? 21:15:07 maybe EDWARD or EDGAR or something? 21:15:16 hmm 21:15:20 a bit too uncommon 21:15:24 need something more.. ircish 21:15:29 Male version of Eliza? 21:15:37 Elizo? :-P 21:15:37 ihope, i dunno 21:15:39 heh 21:16:06 It's the diminutive of Elizabeth, apparently. 21:16:17 for a moment, I was going to suggest a female name (because you could do some really interesting experiments with that), but people might start interacting with it too much for it to look convincing 21:16:34 Etymology of Elizabeth: 'From the Greek Ελισαβετ (Elisabet), a transliteration of the Hebrew אֱלִישֶׁבַע (Elisheva), meaning "my God is an oath".' http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Elizabeth 21:16:54 here's a suggestion- integrate a small time delay based on the length of the bot's responses, to simulate it having to type 21:17:11 The mother of John the Baptist was Elizabeth, apparently. 21:17:12 a long response in low time might tip people off 21:17:18 I suspect, then, that there is no male version. 21:17:55 linuxfanboy 21:17:55 hmm 21:17:55 if i let it loose in e.g. ##php #Linux 21:17:55 should it learn from all messages? 21:17:55 like, everything the channel says 21:17:55 it should learn X is Y and some other stuff 21:17:55 and emotional contexts 21:17:55 (Not any evolution, though - just learning) 21:17:55 or should it just learn from stuff directed to it? 21:17:55 i think learning from everything would be more realistic 21:17:55 but... maybe it'd be too clever and people would guess 21:17:58 If not EDWARD, you could always do "eddie" 21:18:07 and then you'd get an H2G2 reference, too 21:18:24 Elliott of course ;) 21:18:28 I think learning from everything is probably better. 21:18:35 -!- helios24 has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:35 -!- oerjan has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:53 Woot, tiny netsplit. 21:18:59 lol 21:19:09 Did we lose kornbluth? 21:19:19 nope- niven 21:19:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:19:20 -!- helios24 has joined. 21:19:23 a random time delay is a good idea 21:19:41 I'd make it at least partially a function of message length, though 21:19:41 i don't know whether male or female would make my job easier... 21:19:48 catering to irrational stereotypes is hard 21:20:09 ehird`: male is effectively neuter online, and it's the gender "default" 21:20:10 maybe i should make it randomly forget some long term memory stuff if its old 21:20:17 Niven was still showing up on /links. 21:20:22 we don't want the bot to stick out, so it should be male 21:20:29 RodgerTheGreat, yeah, female geeks always get a lot of bugging :P 21:20:35 maybe i should make it randomly forget some long term memory stuff if its old <-- actually this sounds like a really good idea 21:20:45 it has to be forgetful to a large degree 21:20:59 it allows it to avoid sticky situations like complex conversations, and makes it more realistic 21:21:03 as I mentioned before, if it was obviously female, it'd get way too much attention and people would figure it out quick 21:21:24 it's worth noting that this bot will have to change the subject a LOT 21:21:33 it'll probably spend most of its time doing so 21:21:41 sometimes responding with just "ah." or "hm." when asked a direct question could be good. 21:21:52 yes, 21:22:03 or picking out words from the sentence and delivering a response related to them 21:22:13 so it isn't too fishy, but it changes the subject 21:22:14 like 21:22:18 that's what my chatterbots do at all times 21:22:24 are fishes great fun? 21:22:25 with a large enough database, it works well 21:22:33 not sure. fish are slimy. 21:22:47 fish aren't slimy! 21:22:58 really? fish live in the water. 21:23:01 you could also load it with some default responses that reference geek culture, to better blend in, like "nah, I'm not really into pokemon" 21:23:09 i lik efish. 21:23:17 me too. fish are 21:23:20 sometimes you can disguise a lack of understanding with something that can be interpreted as a joke 21:23:22 RodgerTheGreat, heh 21:23:26 indeed 21:23:32 as long as jokes aren't repeated frequently 21:23:42 feeding it with lots of memes could help 21:23:44 Infamous technique. 21:23:52 If you don't understand, say something funny. 21:24:00 after all, tons of people respond to questions involving something that was in a meme with the meme's catchphrase 21:24:01 yup 21:24:10 it's very very annoying, but oh so common for real people to do 21:24:11 O RLY? 21:24:15 -!- helios24 has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:24:15 -!- oerjan has quit (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:24:18 ... exactly. 21:24:21 lol 21:24:37 I like cats. 21:24:42 I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER? 21:24:46 no 21:24:48 aw, ok. 21:24:51 speaking of which, the bot could be coded to "laugh along" if enough people are loling about something 21:24:59 good idea 21:24:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:24:59 -!- helios24 has joined. 21:25:16 always make it a random chance, though 21:25:19 ... this bot would be very hard to program 21:25:30 RodgerTheGreat, maybe it should laugh based on the style of jokes it had laughed at previously. 21:25:30 lol lol lol Wait, what? 21:25:55 and load many variants- "lol", "lmao", "haha", "eh, w/e" 21:25:58 Just get a bot in here. Tweak it later. :-) 21:26:03 perhaps the act of coding this bot should be a group effort 21:26:11 even its core is quite complex already.. 21:26:14 as we're designing it 21:26:23 there are many layers of behavior that could improve the performance of the design 21:26:41 maybe a vaguely plugin based architechture 21:26:47 You should sift through various places for papers and articles on AI. 21:26:48 you could write a LaughAlong plugin, etc 21:27:08 and get callbacks like learnedNewAssociation(from, to) 21:27:12 modular design is good 21:27:29 maybe this should be a community project or something? 21:27:29 especially if you can "hotload" plugins 21:28:14 a way to manually modify the memory, etc would be useful 21:28:17 for near the start 21:28:20 to set it on the right track 21:28:41 for example if it sees "fuck you lol" it might associate "fuck you" with happy/funny :P 21:28:45 near the start. 21:28:47 and an easy way to extract "brain dumps" or at least postmortems 21:28:53 save/load memory state, etc 21:29:03 possibly a GUI would help there too 21:29:19 i.e. a command-line program to modify the DB, and when starting the bot you could tell it to spawn a gui to do all that from 21:29:22 I would lean towards a web-based interface for a collaborative effort, myself 21:29:32 well assuming the bot code can be downloaded 21:29:37 but yes, if there's going to be a main instance 21:29:39 that sounds good 21:30:25 how will we avoid conflicting ideas? 21:30:26 like someone says 21:30:29 "you are a scammer" 21:30:35 and someone else says "you are an honest person" 21:30:40 he'll go around telling people both... 21:31:43 that's why I thought "friends" and "enemies" could be good 21:31:52 he could learn who to trust and who to ignore 21:32:08 but that's less effective in a massive channel like #Linux 21:32:21 it'd be good if it was a small channel like ##Nonlogic or #Esoteric 21:33:05 yes but with small channels its easier to spot 21:34:15 ok, so we've got a rough design 21:34:23 i guess if this is going to be a community project its down to practical questions 21:34:24 well, in a smaller channel it'd be more an experiment, whereas in a large channel it'd be a game 21:34:33 RodgerTheGreat, both, really 21:34:39 it's a game in the small picture 21:34:45 it's an experiment in the big picture 21:34:49 it would respond to /msgs for instance 21:34:58 anyway - practical questions: what language to implement it in? 21:35:09 nothing like C - too low level for something like this 21:35:19 You could make your own language and use it! 21:35:27 languages like Python and Ruby might get a bit messy with a modular architechture and lots of AI logic here 21:35:29 ihope, heh :) 21:35:33 Or you could use Common Lisp, Scheme, Haskell... 21:35:38 static typing can really help in a situation like this 21:35:44 If you like esoteric, then Unlambda, Lazy K... 21:35:47 well, I'd say that designing it to handle prolonged, person-to-person conversations and longterm relationships would be more of a step towards conversational AI, while most of the "lost in a room simulacra" ideas are really cheap tricks 21:36:10 ihope, monads and stuffs are unneccessary worry for something as unpure as this 21:36:20 Java, perhaps? I know of some great event-driven IRC-bot frameworks 21:36:47 Perl could actually be good 21:36:55 Nothing in Haskell says you can't just put an IO type on everything. 21:36:58 RodgerTheGreat, java is good, i think - it has a familiar syntax to most coders who'd care to try this, is well-known, and would fit into a modular architechture right 21:37:06 RodgerTheGreat, + Swing would be useful for the gui 21:37:35 Though Java's also nice. 21:37:46 however i think for things like remembering Conversations and the like, some custom irc code might be in order 21:37:51 it's not very hard to do, really 21:37:59 and would help in putting some things like short-term-memory in the core 21:38:06 if it's done in Java, I could certainly contribute to the coding 21:38:30 Of course, Java is low on shiny theory... 21:38:36 wha? 21:39:01 It doesn't support proofs by induction. 21:39:05 ...that I know of. 21:39:16 ihope, thank you for this earth-shattering evidence 21:39:22 i am disqualifying java because of the lack of shiny theory 21:39:23 :P 21:39:24 oh, fuck proofs. Who are you, Djikstra? 21:39:33 we aren't coding for a nuclear reactor here. 21:39:39 umm..welll.... 21:39:43 ...to be honest... 21:39:47 i was going to.....umm.... 21:39:54 ...yeah. not coding for a nuclear reactor. 21:39:55 sure. 21:40:30 :D 21:40:32 fuck, if you want this thing to be provable and totally deterministic, we can do it in FORTRAN. That'd be a kick. 21:40:41 haskell! 21:40:46 FORTRAN supports this sort of thing? 21:40:55 FORTRAN programs can be proven 21:40:55 no it doesn't. 21:41:01 lament, i'm not very experienced with haskell 21:41:04 i only get about the basics 21:41:24 most people who'd want to contribute would be doing it for the laughs, anyway, and they'd be more likely to know some java than haskell 21:41:34 write it in lolcode then! 21:41:41 very funny 21:41:47 java can be useful, you know.. 21:41:56 Haskell's type system, while more expressive than many other type systems, doesn't quite have types like "function that implements this standard". 21:41:58 especially in situations like this 21:42:12 Java is a robust, scalable language well suited to large-scale projects 21:42:13 ihope: what's a standard? 21:42:15 And indeed, you're not writing anything so critical as a program component. 21:42:16 it requires some random numbers, some lookup tables, a bit of logic, and lots of IO 21:42:23 java can do all of that fine 21:42:29 lament: s/standard/specification/ 21:42:56 plus when it comes round to a GUI or similar, java is good at that too 21:43:04 ihope: it does that to a fuller extent than many other languages 21:43:10 (with type signatures) 21:43:34 Indeed, a Haskell value's type does say *something* about what it does. 21:44:23 oh, and the app will have to do a bit of configuration file processing too 21:44:26 java can do that fine too 21:44:45 StreamTokenizer is one of my greatest friends 21:44:45 so, really, java can do all this fine, it can be done cleanly, and java is a very well known language 21:44:50 sounds good to me 21:45:15 I guess sprinkling code with asserts is sort of the same thing as using a... preemptive approach? 21:45:25 Yes, preemptive. 21:45:27 ihope, when did i mention asserts? 21:45:34 You didn't. 21:45:38 okay 21:45:48 on the subject of asserts, asserts are infinitely better than unit tests 21:45:51 But asserts are a useful debugging tool, yes? 21:45:53 yes 21:46:21 * ehird` hates unit tests because human context switching is expensive (and i'm not just quoting joel, i've tried unit tests and hated my loss of time. asserts are great) 21:46:25 well, exceptions too 21:46:37 assert() is "THIS SHOULD NEVER EVER HAPPEN, WORLD ASPLODE" 21:46:49 unit testing *can* be automated to a degree 21:46:51 exceptions are "SOMETHING WENT REALLY WRONG, SO SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE DID SOMETHING WRONG, OH NO" 21:47:20 by designing a language well-suited to it, you can eliminate the human labor entirely, aside from providing test data 21:47:23 um 21:47:28 exceptions are a control flow mechanism 21:47:36 What are unit tests? 21:47:37 asserts are a debugging tool 21:47:43 lament, yse 21:47:45 *yes 21:47:45 tests are a testing tool 21:47:49 they're all different :) 21:47:57 lament, debugging and testing need not be seperate 21:48:04 and debugging and testing can be done via a control flow mechanism 21:48:05 QED 21:48:10 ihope: a unit test is a methodical test of every method and function in a program component in isolation 21:48:12 ihope: you take a chunk of your code and run it with many possible inputs and check that the outputs are correct 21:48:15 assert(!"the excrement has hit the air-circulation device"); 21:48:22 bsmntbombdood, hah 21:48:44 * ihope ponders how strong a type system can be 21:48:58 so, pratical question #1 - what language? answered 21:49:00 answer: Java 21:49:10 java is shit 21:49:18 bsmntbombdood, for many uses, sure 21:49:24 for all uses 21:49:31 bsmntbombdood: I think you mean "Java is *the* shit" 21:49:35 Java isn't shit for... um... 21:49:39 ihope: take haskell, and remove all polymorphism :) 21:49:39 zealot detected, zealot detected, zealot alart 21:49:41 *alert 21:49:44 ihope: you'll get the strongest type system possibel 21:49:48 possible 21:49:52 java isn't shit for enterprise-level mutithreaded applications 21:50:11 Java isn't shit if all you want to do is type "public static void main"! 21:50:16 prac- er, bikeshedding question #2 - what project name? probably the same as the main instance's name i guess 21:50:19 java isn't shit for interactive content embedded in webpages 21:50:34 java is just not a nice language 21:50:37 interactive content in webpages is fail 21:50:37 1337speak might be useful for the name, to make people's expectations lower for the instances intelligence 21:50:45 client side scripting is EVIL 21:50:47 dav3y? d4vey? i don't know 21:50:59 i know 21:51:00 bsmntbombdood: what if you don't want to waste your server's time? 21:51:02 there's a different between an applet sandbox and scripting. 21:51:23 lament: perhaps I didn't mean "strong" so much as... "expressive"? 21:51:28 ihope: you should be even more reluctant to waste the user's time 21:51:56 for a name, pick squazr23 21:52:02 lament, har har har 21:52:10 :D 21:52:20 maybe we should avoid a real name 21:52:24 then it doesn't have to remember it 21:52:29 because, if it can "forget" 21:52:34 then forgetting its real name... heh. 21:52:48 but forgetting a nickname is plausible i guess 21:53:02 ehird`: depends on the IRC client. 21:53:14 Doesn't it? 21:53:16 huh? 21:53:33 * RodgerTheGreat closes his eyes and types something... 21:53:38 usoac 21:53:39 I'd be pretty incapable of forgetting my nick. 21:53:44 we'll call it USOAC 21:53:57 backronym generators, begin 21:54:00 Title bar: "ihope on #esoteric (+nc): Esoteric programming language discussion . . ." 21:54:01 Hello world I am typing with my eyes shut I wonder how this will turn out because I am wfollowing RodgerTheGreat 's examples of yes 21:54:05 heh. 21:54:09 Button next to the input box: "ihope" 21:54:18 ihope, i guess 21:54:20 I'm capable of typing blind. 21:54:22 ihope, but think e.g. irssi 21:54:23 Thing to the left of everything I say: "" 21:54:33 meh, i guess 21:54:40 maybe it'll only forget unrecalled memories 21:55:08 bsmntbombdood: programs often do take significant amounts of CPU time. 21:55:24 (And yes, I am just now revealing that that's what I meant by "time".) 21:56:06 hmm 21:56:11 i can't think of a nick that would fit.. 21:56:22 we don't want something terribly intellectual, but we don't want something really n00bish 21:56:27 ehird`: my irssi does display my nickname in the status bar 21:57:09 ehird`: mix both worlds "SirR0x0rLMAONeumann IV." 21:57:10 :S 21:57:16 RodgerTheGreat, oh jesus 21:57:18 how about no :P 21:57:19 lol 21:58:11 I just don't see anything wrong with the "random letters" idea 21:58:17 how about 21:58:19 cszk 21:58:20 no 21:58:23 most people will think it's an odd abbreviation or something 21:58:25 not n00bish enough 21:58:33 what's wrong with usoac? 21:58:35 kdlaf 21:58:37 ofpa 21:58:39 mvldo 21:58:41 u50ac, maybe? 21:58:43 mvldo... that's great 21:58:53 mvld0 21:58:56 -!- ehird` has changed nick to mvldo. 21:59:00 somebody say something to me 21:59:14 hi, mvldo 21:59:22 RodgerTheGreat: hi 21:59:28 'sup? 21:59:49 RodgerTheGreat: dunno. Hey, what do you know about quantum mechanics? 22:00:14 a reasonable amount 22:00:20 string theory is pretty crazy 22:00:28 RodgerTheGreat: IM IN UR QUANTUM BOX, MAYBE. lol 22:00:32 heh 22:00:44 -!- mvldo has changed nick to ehird. 22:00:48 ok, that worked well 22:00:51 I agree 22:00:54 mvldo is a good name 22:00:58 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird`. 22:00:59 that type of conversation is entirely feasible 22:00:59 the real world comes with strings attached! 22:01:03 indeed 22:01:37 also he could respond "i like strings. i know that a peice of string is 3 inches long!" 22:01:41 stuff like that 22:01:44 relvant, but useless 22:02:18 ok 22:02:22 but people might think he's joking around or something 22:02:29 well that's good 22:02:33 isn't it? 22:02:51 if they laugh, he'll think it's positive and then change subjects, so you're golden 22:03:01 indeed 22:03:22 so mvldo, an AI bot, implemented in Java 22:03:43 i guess all that's needed now is some sort of collaboration space - a wiki and a version control system? 22:04:58 hmm, too lazy to set up my VPS for that right now... 22:05:04 tricky situation. 22:05:56 :s 22:06:17 so, how is mvldo pronounced? "muvvledoe"? 22:06:29 i guess 22:06:33 "muh vul doh" 22:07:00 yeah, sounds like a last name if you emphasize the "vul" 22:07:02 lord voldemort. 22:07:08 lament, that's what i just thought 22:07:12 muh vul doh moh ert 22:07:21 I keep thinking of mold for some reason 22:07:35 i doubt anyone would question it 22:07:40 apart from "what does your name mean?" 22:07:41 I guess I don't read enough children's fantasy literature 22:07:49 he can just reply that it's a random nickname, i guess 22:08:06 or he could learn some absolutely hilarious responses 22:08:20 yeah, i guess 22:08:32 with carefully planted topic-related stuff in them 22:08:34 to change subject 22:08:44 he should claim to have ADHD, i guess, that'd help credibility 22:09:28 oh no 22:09:30 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mvldo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a mvuldo exists 22:09:32 *mvldo 22:09:35 "what does your name mean?" "your mom"/"what does YOUR name mean"/"it's my name"/"don't wear it out"/"I'm borderline autistic"/"The last person to ask that is now fashioned into boots" 22:09:44 only 1 post, though 22:09:49 RodgerTheGreat, haha 22:10:08 well, a real-life mvldo is even better 22:10:17 if people google it, stuff comes up 22:12:48 yes but it might not fit the personality 22:12:55 and he'd have to explain for things he never knew about 22:13:13 http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=storage&message.id=143#M143 that's all he's said though 22:13:15 so, i guess 22:13:44 anyone have hosting space to offer temporarily for the source control/wiki? 22:14:32 it seems mvldo means something 22:14:34 in some language 22:15:01 but anyway 22:15:13 my betting chips are on something mildly offensive 22:15:14 Borderline autistic... 22:15:16 ok, that's every problem sans hosting space solved 22:15:43 ehird`: do you know who I am, indcidentally? 22:15:58 *incidentally 22:16:02 RodgerTheGreat, no, why 22:16:24 I happen to be one of the staffers of Nonlogic. http://www.nonlogic.org/index.php?tour 22:16:34 never heard of it 22:16:42 well, you have now. 22:16:59 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has joined. 22:17:27 well isn't that a nice coincidence :) apart from "IRC access is available only to paying users. PsyBNCs, Eggdrops, and related software are expressly prohibited from use." 22:18:07 and the fact that our founder has religious objections to Java being used on the server 22:18:17 Religious? 22:18:32 ihope, i guess jehovah's witness, they can't do ANYTHING :P 22:18:39 RMS is a religious figure to his followers 22:18:45 RodgerTheGreat, which languages would he not have religious objections to 22:18:46 Objections to people using Java at all? 22:19:00 ihope, you know rms.. 22:19:09 mainly it's against having Javac and Java on the server. Java code is a non-issue 22:19:12 No, not really. 22:19:29 we do have gcj, but I don't particularly enjoy that program 22:19:30 Richard Stallman, right? 22:19:33 yeah 22:19:37 RodgerTheGreat, gcj is evil... 22:19:42 no shit 22:19:48 well, java code sure, but if there's going to be a main instance 22:19:52 it makes sense for it to be on the same machine 22:20:06 so - what programming languages would the founder not freak out about? :) 22:20:48 it would be problematic *hosting* a bot on the server at all, really. I mainly offered our resources for SVN/webhosting 22:20:56 yeah, i guess 22:20:59 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:21:02 just thinking - since it'd have a web interface for the brain 22:21:18 yeah, I dunno 22:22:19 hrm. 22:22:21 dialemma. 22:22:24 dialemming 22:22:35 * ihope chants "virtual private server" 22:23:22 * ehird` chants "have one but too lazy to set it up and don't have ssh private key on this machine" 22:23:40 there is no dialemma that cannot be solved with sufficient dialysis. 22:23:48 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:24:01 hosting for something low bandwidth isn't expensive, but there's a big difference on the 'net between "zero dollars" and "cheap" 22:24:20 by "a big difference" I mean a gaping chasm 22:24:53 indeed 22:26:01 maybe i should just run the bot on this machine, for now 22:26:10 nonlogic looks like the simplest place 22:27:06 well, if you'd like an account, I can set you right up 22:27:21 just PM me with your desired username, real name and email address 22:27:26 alright 22:28:02 Gaping chasm... 22:28:33 Indeed, if you charged one cent for something, that'd probably drive lots of people away. 22:28:39 yes 22:28:55 the credit card form has a big psychological impact 22:29:59 Rather silly. 22:30:13 Why does it? 22:30:31 because it does 22:31:27 One of those things without actual reason behind it? 22:32:07 because the way credit cards work is ripe for abuse and people that are smart have some resistance to giving their info away 22:32:20 if it was more like cash, it wouldn't be a big deal 22:32:37 yeah, if there was a floppy-drive-like thing on your desk 22:32:45 and you just put a dollar in there, or something 22:32:48 and clicked a button 22:32:51 everybody would be fine 22:33:10 There's no good way to make sure they take only one cent? 22:33:17 not really 22:33:24 if there WERE, the internet would be great 22:33:28 no ads, for sure 22:33:30 That's a little bit stupid. 22:33:41 a lot of things would cost a penny to see, though 22:33:45 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/ *tada* 22:34:05 I like what you've done with your webdesign 22:34:13 very modern 22:34:14 yes 22:35:10 shouldn't that be port 69 22:35:24 lol 22:36:59 i updated it 22:37:01 very fashionable now 22:37:25 nice 22:38:43 i hope nobody googles mvldo, heh 22:38:55 * ihope does 22:39:11 Why? 22:39:25 because then they'd find the website.. 22:39:28 and see its code. 22:39:30 "uhoh" 22:39:47 oh no, now i have to install mediawiki 22:39:53 maybe i should use something simpler 22:39:57 what's simple wiki software to set up 22:40:00 moinmoin is quite hard 22:40:01 That's what robots.txt and meta tags are for. 22:40:21 Make your own very simple wiki? 22:40:29 that'd be a waste of my valuable time coding :P 22:40:35 normally i would give into NIH 22:40:40 but there's a big AI project to code and all 22:41:15 ehird`: nonlogic already provides wikis 22:41:20 does it? 22:41:21 great 22:41:22 how? 22:41:23 yup 22:41:33 (i like this nonlogic thing!) 22:41:39 hrm.. I think you can turn it on via nonlogic.org/user-admin 22:41:57 and then use "user.nonlogic.org/wiki" 22:42:07 I haven't set one up in a while, though 22:42:21 ehird`: we do our best. :) 22:42:31 wow that was quick 22:43:12 it seems that it's injected loads of users though? 22:43:21 now do you see why there are so many people from #Esoteric using NL? 22:43:23 hm? 22:43:38 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Listusers 22:43:55 over 500 of them 22:44:02 oh, I think our system mirrors users between wikis 22:44:05 ah 22:44:07 okay 22:44:09 I didn't build it, myself 22:44:29 what is the admin account though? :) 22:44:51 you're an admin for your own wiki, I believe 22:45:09 there's no mvldo account 22:45:24 There is no user by the name "Mvldo". Check your spelling, or use the form below to create a new user account. 22:45:44 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special%3AListusers&group=sysop&username= no sysops 22:45:49 this wiki thing is, uh, broken :) 22:45:55 oh right 22:45:57 i make an account 22:46:00 then use the admin interface 22:46:04 to sysop it 22:46:08 ah, bingo 22:46:52 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:48:03 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki it's a start 22:48:22 guess so 22:48:49 * ehird` grabs hg 22:49:23 (http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ hg's site, for anyone interested) 22:51:19 don't know how i'll handle ssh pushing though 22:51:26 users other than me have to touch it, but if everyone can.. 22:51:59 hm 22:52:26 it would represent a mild security risk to distribute your login to others 22:52:32 yes 22:52:36 error: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.3/config/Makefile (No such file or directory) 22:52:37 oh no 22:52:50 hunh? 22:52:52 no /config directory? :S 22:53:00 well mercurial builds a c extension to python 22:53:01 for speed 22:53:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 22:53:03 ~raw join #lispcafe 22:53:07 apparently python-dev or similar isn't installed? 22:53:15 never heard of it 22:53:34 well, the development stuff for python 22:53:52 http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2004-March/148375.html 22:53:53 well, I mean, we ought to 22:54:07 I'm no pycoder myself, but many of our users are 22:54:33 it's 22:54:35 python2.3-dev 22:54:45 hey, pop into ##Nonlogic and we can ask somebody else 23:19:26 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:19:28 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:22:54 I HATE SSH 23:23:11 "WHY WOULD I READ YOUR BASH_PROFILE OR BASHRC? THAT'S SILLY! I AM HERE TO ANNOY YOU AND TO BREAK YOUR PROGAMS!" 23:24:23 oh well 23:24:25 fixed via ugly hack 23:24:44 RodgerTheGreat, i guess the current matter is to fill in the design pages 23:24:45 http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 23:24:56 ok 23:25:21 pages like "Memory", etc 23:25:30 and "Topic changing" 23:25:47 and then everything else - implemented in plugins - in the plugins category, i guess 23:26:01 -!- bsmnt_bot has changed nick to zxcvbnm2000. 23:28:15 i did a small mockup page on memory 23:30:51 -!- zxcvbnm2000 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:30:55 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 23:33:31 ok, i created a few articles 23:35:19 Now make it say something other than "article" at the top. >:-) 23:36:02 why? 23:36:08 most mediawiki interfaces use that 23:36:14 But some don't. 23:36:26 so what 23:36:31 that's not an important design decision 23:36:53 Indeed, it's not. 23:42:03 ok 23:42:07 i've made tons of pages 23:42:13 RodgerTheGreat, ihope, http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 23:42:14 check out the pages 23:45:40 :) comments welcome 23:46:48 okay fine ignore me =p 23:49:18 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | REMINDER FOR ehird` DO NOT REMOVE: mvldo.nonlogic.org. 23:49:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:49:54 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection).