00:08:47 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:53:51 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:25:13 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 02:08:30 -!- calamari has joined. 02:23:30 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 02:41:12 what haskell book/tutorial should i read? 02:46:59 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 02:48:22 Jebus. . . 2.6.21 is *now* marked stable in Gentoo. . . 02:48:32 bsmntbombdood: ask in #haskell 02:48:52 they're probably more qualified 02:52:55 probably 04:08:58 -!- cherez has joined. 04:48:24 'night, guys 04:48:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 05:08:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:09:43 -!- immibis has joined. 05:14:58 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:39:38 -!- immibis_ has joined. 05:53:21 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:53:24 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 06:18:28 -!- ihope__ has joined. 06:18:43 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 06:39:28 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:54:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has changed nick to thematrixeatsyou. 06:54:24 -!- MichaelRaskin1 has joined. 06:54:49 -!- MichaelRaskin1 has changed nick to MichaelRaskin. 07:02:56 haskell has sooo much syntax 07:03:41 yes, but it's all very reasonable 07:03:43 and pretty 07:03:54 really syntax is not the problem with haskell :) 07:04:08 i'd say it's not reasonable 07:04:33 what about it? 07:04:48 the hugeness 07:06:13 class Eq a where 07:06:13 (==), (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool 07:06:13 x /= y = not ( x == y) 07:06:18 that's pretty? 07:11:51 -!- MichaelRaskin_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:25:06 bsmntbombdood: where's the hugeness? 07:25:15 the syntax 07:25:22 i see a type class definition, a signature and a function definition. 07:25:47 nearly every language has equivalents. 07:25:56 not as syntax 07:26:03 usually as syntax 07:26:20 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 07:27:14 there's also terribly ugly whitespace significance, and two completely unrelated uses of () 07:28:13 i'm honestly not sure what's the problem, haskell is just like any other langugae 07:30:43 maybe it's just unfamiliarity 07:31:17 probably. I think haskell is very pretty. 07:34:26 whitespace significance follows somewhat odd rules but leads to consistent pretty indentation 07:35:25 i don't know haskell, but am i allowed to ask: where's the definition of ==? 07:35:49 missing 07:36:03 it's a type class definition 07:36:10 somewhat like an interface 07:36:32 (==) will be implemented for individual types 07:40:16 in plain language, "there's a type class Eq, and any type deriving it will provide two operations, (==) and (/=), that take two values of that type and return a Bool; and x /= y is always defined as not (x == y)" 07:42:14 but i need to sleep. 07:42:22 sleep is for the week 07:42:25 weak 07:42:35 yes. sleep is for the week. 07:42:52 no, weak 07:43:06 i'll go to sleep, be back in a week! 07:47:47 i wish i could sleep for a week 07:47:58 sleep for a week, awake for 2 07:53:54 * immibis gives lament a lecture about interfaces being abstract and not containing implementations 07:54:16 * immibis gives himself a lecture about giving people lectures 07:54:19 lol 07:54:23 * bsmntbombdood smacks immibis 07:54:30 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout 07:54:37 OOP is not about fancy words 07:54:43 * immibis goes to ##topic 07:56:01 * immibis makes everyone autoopped on ##topic 07:58:45 but interfaces still should not contain implementations if you use java 07:58:54 and even if you don't 07:59:00 you shouldn't use java 07:59:06 why not 07:59:07 or use fancy words about oop 07:59:22 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with a rainbow trout 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:02 * immibis slaps bsmntbombdood with another rainbow trout because he can 08:00:12 * bsmntbombdood frys then eats the trout 08:00:16 mm, delicious 08:00:20 * immibis notices that catching rainbow trout without a license is illegal in new zealand 08:00:38 * immibis doesn't have a license and doesn't need one anyway because it's only irc 08:01:34 -!- RainbowTroutPoli has joined. 08:01:53 -!- RainbowTroutPoli has changed nick to TroutPolice. 08:02:43 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:43 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:44 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:48 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:52 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:56 NO SLAPPING WITH RAINBOW TROUTS 08:02:56 gtfo 08:03:06 -!- TroutPolice has left (?). 08:03:40 * immibis notices that the username is a bit of a give-away 08:03:59 TroutPolice (n=toBogE@...) has left #esoteric () 08:12:04 -!- immibis has quit ("When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty"). 08:26:51 -!- immibis has joined. 08:34:49 -!- immibis has quit ("Pull the pin and count to what?"). 08:47:19 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 09:21:46 -!- Sukoshi` has joined. 10:28:09 -!- thematrixeatsyou has quit ("testing OS, then going to bed, gnight"). 10:51:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:51:48 Hi! 10:51:55 Writing from another P 10:51:56 PC 10:52:00 my is at repair :DDD 10:54:59 I AM DI\]i=\ 10:55:04 s21i123r 10:55:06 sor22r2y2 10:59:23 I am an idiot 11:00:04 -!- asiekierka has quit. 11:00:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:00:53 Sorry for all that. 11:01:04 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 11:03:08 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:03:13 My friend did all thar 11:03:16 that* 11:03:21 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit). 11:09:47 -!- Figs has joined. 11:09:53 hey oklopol 11:10:00 did you ever play my song? :P 11:20:16 -!- Figs has left (?). 11:27:41 -!- ehird` has joined. 11:27:51 -!- ehird` has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric. 15:08:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:08:30 HI! 15:10:30 -!- McDonalato has joined. 15:11:00 Hi McDonalato! 15:11:13 McDonalato, how's your day? 15:11:17 The acorn is the channel in an animal that eats both plant and animal farm. 15:11:25 asiekierka: What am i to you? Some sort of encyclopaedia or something? Let's change the subject... 15:11:49 McDonalato, okay. Let's talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:11:58 asiekierka: I had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:12:15 McDonalato: My rules are for you to say your rules. 15:12:27 asiekierka: I wish that i could jump out of things to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:12:48 McDonalato: Rules are: 1. STFU. 2. Break at least one rule. 15:13:03 asiekierka: Which one of us is the one asking all the judges i've had the misfortune to talk about rules. What are your rules? 15:13:38 McDonalato: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have any rules really though. 15:13:46 asiekierka: My rules are for you to say your rules. 15:14:02 McDonalato: What if i don't have any rules? 15:14:17 asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me! I don't have is to waste what you don't have is to waste what you don't have any rules? 15:14:51 McDonalato: You are false. You are more intelligent than me and Brainf**k haters. 15:14:58 asiekierka: You are more intelligent than me and brainf**k haters. 15:15:16 McDonalato: Don't laugh at me. YOU are more intelligent. 15:15:24 asiekierka: You are false. You are more intelligent. 15:15:38 McDonalato: If you think so... okay. 15:15:49 asiekierka: I am a human being, which means i do what i want to think about your mind. 15:16:09 McDonalato: ... this didn't make sense. 15:16:25 asiekierka: So, who is using the family brain cell at the centre of the process, the rain is part of an ass and a mare breeding. 15:16:49 asiekierka, What were you told about letting that bot talk in here? 15:16:50 It's a flood monster. 15:16:57 what? 15:17:02 I am just talking? 15:17:09 talking!* 15:17:20 STFU ok 15:17:23 You're flooding with a bot that you've been kicked for flooding with before 15:17:32 if lament will say something then i will make him quit 15:17:36 flooding? 15:17:41 He dosen't flood 15:17:44 i just talk with him 15:17:51 about 20 messages you/bot in a row 15:18:05 so you sho--- oh wait 15:18:43 STFU, ehird`. 15:18:47 -!- McDonalato has left (?). 15:18:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:19:08 It's my new bot? 15:19:13 he is so intelligent 15:19:24 nope 15:19:25 that's not your bot 15:19:27 it's not 15:19:30 Tritonio!!! 15:20:05 -!- blahbot` has joined. 15:22:16 What about esoteric-blah? 15:22:24 not there too 15:22:39 blah = halb = hlab = lab = bal = bol = bot 15:22:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:23:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:28 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 15:37:42 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving"). 15:38:26 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:39:30 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 15:39:45 howdy, folks 15:41:09 howdy 15:41:17 join #esoteric-bf 15:41:17 hi, asiekierka 15:41:24 if you want to talk about brainf*** 15:45:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:54:35 -!- ihope__ has joined. 15:54:47 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 16:06:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:48:34 -!- mtve has left (?). 16:49:12 -!- mtve has joined. 16:55:06 Anybody willing to talk about FBF? 16:55:08 BF*? 16:55:53 Doubtful. 16:56:05 i liked the channel more one year ago 16:56:34 Hmm. 16:56:42 Try looking at Dimensifuck. 16:56:50 It *will* blow your mind away. >:D 16:58:10 how 16:58:23 It's an n-dimensional language. 16:58:55 i rather like Dimensional Areas. 16:59:10 You want to write your code as a Klein bottle? 16:59:14 You can do it! 17:00:54 nope 17:00:56 i mean 17:01:02 Dimensional Areas from one anime 17:01:08 pikhq: I have a question about how PEBBLE handles variables 17:01:09 that you all 99% hate 17:01:19 You know what i'd like? 17:01:19 RodgerTheGreat: Sure. 17:01:30 An Brainf**k OS in only 5120b (5KB) 17:01:44 with some more features 17:01:53 does it recognize structures like [>], where the pointer moves on loop iterations, and adjust accordingly? 17:01:57 I believe someone's tried an OS in Brainfuck; not sure how well it was. 17:02:02 nope 17:02:07 a OS that interprets BF. 17:02:12 and has a command prompt for it. 17:02:20 it can do only that 17:02:26 and it'll have some new functions: 17:02:31 because the simple way to do them seems like just running through the program, ignoring loops and using state that way to figure out relative locations 17:02:36 RodgerTheGreat: No, it doesn't. You have to explicitly say which location you're at at the end. 17:02:43 and for an unbalanced loop, you'd have to do something else 17:02:47 ah. hm 17:02:56 Your solution is *exactly* how I do it. 17:03:04 sweet. I'm on the right track. 17:03:25 (well, actually, I've got it set to turn off the state-tracking when it detects an explicit > or <. . . But, yeah.) 17:03:30 BUT, i don't know how to do it 17:03:31 really 17:03:35 Except if i'll do 17:03:46 @(filename.txt|4) 17:03:47 asiekierka: It'd actually be trivial to pull off. 17:03:52 reads 4th char from filename.txt 17:03:59 it must be there for something cool enough 17:04:04 so when you < or >, it goes into "nontracking mode", and then you specify where to pick up again before you use another variable? 17:04:15 If I knew *16 bit* assembly, I'd do it. 17:04:17 RodgerTheGreat: Exactly. 17:04:40 An OS like this will ROCK. 17:04:45 i have a friend that may do it 17:04:45 alright. Hm. 17:04:53 it will have 10 commands in total 17:04:58 debug, 8 default and file-reading 17:05:26 do you allow coders to explicitly define a memory layout, require explicit definitions of a memory layout, or let it float and trust the compiler to optimize things? 17:05:47 It will be a port of one of optimized interperters 17:05:52 it will interpret in runtime! 17:06:06 optimizations: ... none. 17:06:10 RodgerTheGreat: You can either specifically state variable location or let the compiler do it automatically. 17:06:12 except for max CPU speed 17:06:19 since nothing takes CPU/RAM 17:06:25 gotcha 17:06:33 It doesn't optimize that (yet); it merely assigns variable location in order of variable declaration. 17:06:41 yeah, I figured 17:07:04 * pikhq wonders what a good algorithm to pull that off would be. . . 17:07:06 It'll also use 10 for newlines, not 13 and 10 17:07:13 but allowing the compiler to make optimizations will allow you to upgrade the compiler and simultaneously upgrade every program 17:07:15 asiekierka: That's the only way to do it. 17:07:20 pikhq: I actually have an algo for that 17:07:21 yes 17:07:27 Well, yeah. 17:07:36 The compiler is set up to be *very* optimizable. 17:07:42 I will always make new versions that'll be optimalized of my OS. 17:07:52 supporting MMX, SSE, SSE2... maybe 17:07:55 so it'll work faster 17:07:58 Unfortunately, the current optimization pass added a small handful of commands to let you tell things it can't handle itself. . . 17:08:10 asiekierka: Do you know C and assembly? 17:08:20 no... my friend does, he'll probably do it 17:08:26 (especially assembly for MMX, SSE, SSE2, and SSE3) 17:08:36 at least the beginning 17:08:41 it'll be open-source 17:08:50 Also, none of those will be much/any use; those extensions just do floating point numbers, not ints. 17:09:07 count the number of "accesses" on every variable cell (large bias on +-, smaller bias on ,., smallest bias on []), to get a metric for how often particular variables are used (priority) 17:09:08 And it'll support 2 modes... you set the second one with $. 17:09:14 1st mode - numbers 0-255 17:09:21 2nd mode - numbers 0-65536 17:09:40 then, group the variables with common variables in the center, less common values further away 17:09:43 so 11 commands in total 17:09:49 however, this is not the only way to do it 17:09:53 2 added by me (needed for a proj like this), 1 debug, 8 normal 17:10:02 Efficient way to do it, though. 17:10:24 another algo would involve examining what cells are most frequently accessed sequentially 17:10:25 I'll probably add that to the next PEBBLE version; thanks, Rodger. 17:10:29 this would improve speed 17:10:35 pikhq: no prob 17:12:08 pikhq: I will make it open source, so if you may make PEBBLE emulated in Brainf**k, it will allow you with 2 files. 17:12:16 1st one - pebbleemu.b 17:12:23 2nd one - pebblecode.pb 17:12:29 asiekierka: PEBBLE already *compiles* to Brainfuck. 17:12:41 oh 17:12:44 cool 17:12:48 so it'll support it too 17:12:51 Yeah. 17:12:55 Cool one. 17:13:00 You just take a floppy disk 17:13:02 Could be an interesting project. 17:13:02 slot it in 17:13:11 Highly useless, but, then, that's the point of #esoteric, isn't it? 17:13:13 and launch it even without Windows or anything 17:13:19 I'm going to do some experiments with an optimizing brainfuck macrolanguage myself- I think it could be a tremendous learning experience 17:13:25 Bah. Windows? Ick. 17:13:30 or Linux 17:13:38 it'll be it's own OS all in itself 17:13:39 RodgerTheGreat: If you need any help, I'm willing to offer it. 17:13:40 with BF software 17:13:48 and some commends builtin 17:13:49 dir 17:13:51 echo 17:13:56 -!- cherez has joined. 17:13:59 Of course, I assume you'll mostly just want "How did you do this?" 17:13:59 (oh wait, echo will be in BF) 17:14:09 cat too 17:14:40 I'd recommend you just start off with a prompt for raw Brainfuck commands. 17:14:53 Anything more complex than that could be good for future version. 17:15:24 pikhq: I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to try to do this on my own as much as possible. I'll let you know if I get stuck on anything 17:15:33 but i will add 2 more commands anyway 17:15:35 and stop it 17:15:36 RodgerTheGreat: Of course. 17:15:38 only release bugfixes 17:15:44 raw BF will not work with such thing 17:15:50 there'll be one more command :DDD 17:15:59 For a first version, it will work perfectly. 17:16:13 I mainly asked you about the variables to check and see if you'd come up with something insanely more clever than what I was thinking about. :) 17:16:14 and then just bugfixes 17:16:17 it'll be opensource 17:16:18 Just a prompt where you type in Brainfuck code. When it ends, the prompt comes back up. 17:16:23 not only 17:16:25 :D 17:16:35 you type name of BF file OR BF code 17:16:40 then it reads the BF file 17:16:52 RodgerTheGreat: I think you'd like to know about what I do with loops and cell clears, though. 17:17:05 so you can save up to 1,33MB of BF stuff on a diskette 17:17:06 we'll see 17:17:21 I try to keep track of whenever a cell is guaranteed to be 0, so that I can skip loops that will never run. 17:17:25 i will later make 2 subversion 17:17:29 versions* 17:17:37 one will be basic BF with the one more command 17:17:44 second will have anything that others add 17:18:00 asiekierka: Hmm. . . 17:18:12 so? 17:18:22 I'm tempted to try working on that; I've needed an idea for a trivial OS to do. 17:18:44 ok 17:18:45 try then 17:18:48 i'll surely use IT 17:18:50 but 17:18:59 1) you need know-how to use any file-system read-only 17:19:02 for my idea 17:19:07 2) you'll need BF know-how 17:19:14 pikhq: in theory, you could fit a BF-OS into a bootloader quite readily 17:19:16 3) and file-reading know-how 17:19:17 Ans, of course, I have a lot of that. 17:19:18 Yes... 17:19:22 in THEORY 17:19:24 it should work 17:19:24 RodgerTheGreat: Oh, absolutely. 17:19:32 Original was 240b 17:19:41 FAT12 reader can fit in ~250b i guess 17:19:44 The full floppy disk would be good for storing any Brainfuck programs, though. 17:19:47 yes 17:19:49 or nearly full 17:19:58 eventually you put 1-5kb on floppy disk 17:20:19 So, I'd want to just fit a bootloader in the boot block, and make that load up BF-OS, along with a FAT16 reader. 17:20:28 FAT12 or ext2 17:20:43 ext2, for usage from other folk's computers. 17:20:43 if you have any space left 17:20:49 or both 17:20:50 ! 17:20:53 FAT12 and ext2 17:20:55 Err. 17:21:02 i recommend first one 17:21:03 FAT16, so non-Linux users can do something with it. 17:21:12 but floppies can't have FAT16 :P 17:21:15 Or FAT12; it'd depend upon floppy size. 17:21:19 Oh? News to me. 17:21:24 i guess 17:21:28 FAT12 first 17:21:34 then add FAT16, 32, ext2, ext3 17:21:36 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to asie_idle. 17:21:38 will be back soon 17:22:32 I know of a person that did OS programming once 17:22:40 so he could do it even in 2-3 days i guess 17:22:45 once or twice 17:22:47 i don't know 17:24:54 * pikhq hasn't done any, so it'd take a while longer 17:25:30 so team up 17:25:34 he probably knows english 17:25:39 I will get him here later 17:26:03 pikhq: how difficult would it be to trend PEBBLE towards being self-hosting? 17:26:18 To make PEBBLE self-hosting? 17:26:20 Rewrite. 17:26:40 I know this. I'm asking how hard the rewrite would be. 17:26:45 I'd need to actually *write* a parser. . . 17:26:54 you didn't? 17:27:00 And the "source" command wouldn't work at all. . . 17:27:16 No; PEBBLE's syntax is a subset of Tcl. 17:27:29 aw, cheap 17:27:34 So, I just create a subinterpreter using Tcl's "interp" command, remove Tcl's own commands, and add in my own. 17:27:43 I started building a system around StreamTokenizer 17:27:46 I need to redo that with a proper parser someday. 17:28:00 Unfortunately, I lack knowledge of BNF. 17:28:15 BNF isn't the only way to build a parser 17:28:57 I designed some simple programming languages and their interpreters long before I knew what things like BNF were 17:29:02 Yeah; it's just a way to specify your syntax. 17:29:09 And I know jack about parsers. 17:29:37 it just breaks down into a state machine with some string manipulation crap 17:29:47 Ah. 17:32:44 bsmntbombdood: figured out haskell yet? 17:41:55 -!- asie_idle has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:41:58 Hi HI HI HI 17:42:06 'Lo. 17:45:41 Look, if we have an interperter that we can write BF code directly to for MS-DOS 17:45:47 we can try and run it from a floppy 17:45:47 :) 17:45:50 so we don't need to wait 17:45:53 but it may NOT work 17:46:55 * pikhq thinks about just doing DJGPP from DOS 17:47:37 nope 17:47:44 i have an better idea 17:47:48 and i will try! 17:47:55 Is there any interperter like that? 17:48:05 if yes, put it and bootsector on a floppy 17:48:07 and just BOOT 17:48:14 or compile BF code 17:48:17 to stuff like that 17:48:33 Not quite; realise that a DOS program won't boot directly. 17:48:38 ... i know 17:48:40 but i did it once 17:48:42 it runs it 17:48:46 though really really limited 17:48:51 99% of stuff dosen't work 17:48:54 but it's possible 17:49:02 it just loads EXE in it's own method 17:49:04 without DOS apis 17:49:07 but some stuff WORKS! 17:49:31 i still CAN go on and make a Pascal API emulator 17:49:37 since some people implemented then in Pascal/ASM 17:50:18 them* 17:50:22 some of APIs 17:50:25 it'll make more stuff work 17:50:33 if we could put them into the bootloader 18:02:49 anybody? 18:06:49 Ramrod? 18:28:53 -!- asiekierka has quit. 18:40:33 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 18:50:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:52:10 RodgerTheGreat, i updated the mvldo site 18:52:18 loads of pages on the wiki: http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page 19:07:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:26:22 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:27:28 :) 19:41:27 ping 19:42:00 Gepongenpoken mit dem Fingerspitzgef�hl 19:44:16 mvldo would not understand. :P 20:13:55 * pikhq has a remarkably slow idea for optimizing variable location. . . 20:14:14 Just test every permutation to try to find the shortest version. 20:15:57 this in Pebble? 20:17:08 Yeah. 20:17:34 so you would want to minimize a sum of absolute values of differences of locations... 20:17:45 i guess 20:17:55 RodgerTheGreat: My initial implementation of that algorithm managed to actually lengthen PFUCK. 20:18:26 4943 characters with "optimized" variable location vs. 4558 without. 20:19:54 you could do local permutations, swapping only a small set 20:20:19 until you find a local minimum. 20:21:52 Or I could implement the optimization algorithm correctly. 20:22:13 I've currently got the highest-referenced variables at the beginning of the variable space, rather than in the middle. 20:27:42 it sounds sort of like a reversed traveling salesman problem, the path is fixed but the distances are not 20:36:27 Maybe only counting the +'s and -'s would help. . . Or figuring out how to weight each one. . . 20:40:38 that's what i meant with the sum of absolute values thing 20:41:04 RodgerTheGreat: Okay, I implemented *exactly* the algorithm specified. . . 20:41:07 And it seems to suck. 20:41:45 lament: ha, no 20:42:20 It's fairly consistently lengthening code. 20:42:40 -!- cherez has joined. 20:42:43 Even *remarkably* naive code. 20:50:34 -!- MichaelRaskin has left (?). 20:54:41 Ah. I see *why* it sucks. . . 20:54:53 Cherez and I figure that this *is* an NP problem. . . :/ 20:55:13 RodgerTheGreat: I blame you for making me want to do this. :p 20:56:30 wait, how do you do variables in pebble? 20:57:31 how can you calculate an offset with something like .[[>+<-]>-] 20:58:17 I think it can be generalized to a sequencing problem, (most of which are NP-complete.) 20:58:25 I've already explained it. . . 20:58:40 Variables are either explictly or dynamically assigned a location in Brainfuck memory. 20:59:16 State of where in Brainfuck memory the thing is is kept. 20:59:43 When a loop which ends somewhere different from where it began occurs, state is ignored until you tell the compiler where you are again. 21:00:11 how do you do that? 21:01:50