00:33:51 <lament> that's better than "blech" :)
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01:24:26 <immibis> pikhq, is pebble a language which compiles into brainfuck code?
01:24:52 <immibis> also: did you mean 41177 chars WITHOUT optimization and 37324 WITH?
01:25:11 <pikhq> No. The "optimization" that I was experimenting with was ineffective.
01:26:09 <immibis> does it eliminate '<>' and '+-' constructs and loops that never happen?
01:26:11 <pikhq> Unless I can get the *idea* to be effective, I'm sure as hell not committing.
01:26:29 <pikhq> No, that's the effective one that's been in for 5 months or so.
01:26:48 <pikhq> What I was trying to do was rearrange the variable locations for size.
01:27:09 <ihope> I pondered a BF optimizer there for a moment. Now I know why I decided against it...
01:30:30 <bsmntbombdood> i don't think there's much optimization you can do that's not easy to do by hand
01:30:41 <ihope> Depends on the program.
01:31:32 <pikhq> Something the size of LostKng.b?
01:32:23 <ihope> I imagine that one's pretty big.
01:37:28 <pikhq> It was written in BFBASIC.
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01:54:55 <immibis> bsmntbombdood: it may be easy to do certain bf optimizations by hand, but doing it by a computer program would be faster
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02:11:02 <RodgerTheGreat> and anyway, if you're using a meta-language that compiles into BF, it's best to have it manage as much of it's own internal optimization as possible, eh?
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02:18:42 <GregorR-L> Been playing Super Paper Mario? :P
02:18:55 <pikhq> Does Super Mario Bros. 3 come close?
02:20:48 <pikhq> GregorR-L: BTW, I've got an idea. . .
02:20:58 <pikhq> Do Not Put The Baby In The BlendTec Blender.
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02:28:08 <pikhq> Death by Norse God?
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04:27:42 <calamari> you are really gross looking on the inside.. did you know that?
04:28:54 <bsmntbombdood> just wait untill my digestive juices get to work on you, then you'll be the gross one
04:29:21 <pikhq> You'll still be gross, just without commentors.
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08:31:30 <immibis> who set the topic? gaim won't show me.
08:31:36 -!- immibis has set topic: #esoteric.
08:32:22 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric.
08:33:07 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Rules: 1. Break at least one rule. 2: At least (10^10) bots must be on #esoteric. 3. NO BOTS! 4. Bring your bot. 5. bsmnt_bot is allowed, as is EgoBot. 6. toBogE is not allowed..
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15:06:02 * SimonRC watches the first-poster youtube video
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17:10:45 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat, you alive?
17:11:49 <SimonRC> Hmm. Proof-checking is decidable, right?
17:12:14 <SimonRC> I just came up with a problem
17:13:41 <SimonRC> You might try solving the halting problem with a machine that tries out all possible proofs in order until one of them proves that the input halts or does not halt.
17:14:32 <SimonRC> Interestingly, the machine halts if and only if there is a proof.
17:14:44 <SimonRC> So what does the machine do when given itself as input.
17:16:42 <SimonRC> If it halts, then there is a trivial proof that it halts (the trace)...
17:16:55 <ehird`> hmm, what about one with the halting-problem-paradox
17:17:03 <SimonRC> well, it would have to be a quine-like construct, but yes
17:17:09 <SimonRC> ehird`: I was coming to that
17:17:11 <ehird`> p(i) = if halts(p, i) loop_forever end
17:18:44 <SimonRC> If the first part halts, then it must prove that the whole does not halt, then it will procede to indeed not halt.
17:19:11 <ehird`> so what does halts(p, p) return
17:19:18 <ehird`> translated to that language, that is
17:19:21 <SimonRC> if the first part does not halt, then the whole will not halt, which means there is a proof that the whole does not halt, which means that the first part halts, which is a contradiction
17:19:31 <ehird`> but what does it actually say =)
17:19:50 <ehird`> so you haven't actually coded it yet :)
17:20:01 <SimonRC> it's simple enough to code...
17:20:12 <SimonRC> but the runtime is, um, long
17:20:21 <SimonRC> like, exponential in size of proof
17:21:12 <SimonRC> you just take an existing theorem prover, and write a wrapper that adds the axioms that define the machine
17:21:34 <SimonRC> ehird`: assuming that the proof-checker is less than exponential
17:21:46 <SimonRC> well, I can;t find the problem I thought was there
17:23:11 <SimonRC> Oh, there is also the possibility that the machine does not halt but can't prove it.
17:24:51 <SimonRC> but such things are hard to find, because there aren't many things we can show true without using a proof that the machine itself would find
17:25:37 <SimonRC> This machine is good for all kinds of things.
17:26:32 <SimonRC> For example, I think it shows that there is a Busy Beaver number that we cannot put an upper bound on.
17:27:47 <SimonRC> If there were no such number, then the machine would be able to compute every Busy Beaver number, and thereby solve the Halting Problem.
17:29:03 <SimonRC> (Note: BB numbers give you a time limit beyond which you can give up on a turing machine, thereby guaranteeing that you can solve the halting problem.)
17:29:29 <SimonRC> Maybe I am missing something,
17:32:20 <ehird`> ESOTERIC LANGUAGE IDEA #647: hammerspace-based language
17:32:26 <ehird`> you can't access memory or whatever directly
17:32:30 <ehird`> just a "kind" of memory"
17:32:38 <ehird`> instead of "i want hammer #324575465", "i want a hammer"
17:38:01 <lament> isn't that how object oriented langs work
17:38:54 <ehird`> but then you can't do something with THAT hammer
17:38:58 <ehird`> you can just say "i want a hammer"
17:39:04 <ehird`> and it'll give you a hammer; any hammer
17:40:20 <ehird`> are esoteric languages meant to be
17:40:24 <lament> not sure how that's different from the usual OO languages
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19:18:00 <pikhq> {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]}
19:34:53 <pikhq> Just an object-oriented RPN language, curtesy of Gregor.
19:39:39 <pikhq> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.01.15
19:45:29 <ehird`> !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Would you like some glass?"(_o)o.?]}
19:53:34 <pikhq> Egobot's not here.
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