00:00:05 <oklokok> blargh, this is pretty tedious stuff manually :PP
00:00:46 <oklokok> i'd really like to debug the program sofar before adding direction reversing...
00:00:52 <oklokok> not that he's here anymore
00:07:41 <oklokok> especially when writing mnemoniclessly
00:45:25 -!- Figs has joined.
00:47:43 <Figs> !bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.
00:48:08 <Figs> did I get the wrong command?
00:48:51 <oklokok> >>> bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.
00:49:12 <GregorR> Or, more accurately, EgoBot still manages to take 100% of my CPU when you jerks force it to.
00:49:23 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.
00:49:36 <lament> GregorR: so 1) renice it 2) limit its cpu usage?
00:49:47 <sp3tt> 3) detect infinite loops
00:49:53 <GregorR> lament: I've done both of those.
00:50:01 <GregorR> I haven't limited its absolute usage.
00:50:28 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.---.+++++++++.
00:50:36 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Got all those, it just still allows infinite loops.
00:51:12 -!- EgoBot has joined.
00:51:22 <GregorR> oklokok: What bsmntbombdood just said is not renice.
00:51:27 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: I didn't write the interpreters.
00:51:36 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: However, I am doing that :P
00:51:46 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: But with eight running, they still collectively fuck up my system X-P
00:51:49 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++.------------.---.+++++++++.>++++[>++++<-]>[<++>-]<.<.
00:52:14 <GregorR> oklokok: Oh, go get a real OS and look it up yourself :P
00:52:51 <lament> GregorR: because you should limit collective usage, duh :)
00:53:04 <oklokok> i thought it was an english word i don't know
00:53:11 <GregorR> lament: Clearly - but I haven't found a good way to do that when I'm just system()'ing.
00:53:19 <Figs> >>> bf ++++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>+.---------.
00:53:34 <oklokok> but indeed, unix prolly has stuff like that
00:53:35 <GregorR> [well, not system()'ing, but fork+execing, same idea]
00:53:36 <Figs> >>> bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.
00:54:07 <EgoBot> realloc: Cannot allocate memory
00:54:08 <Figs> no ololobot pm?
00:54:11 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.
00:54:39 <lament> GregorR: i don't know either :)
00:55:09 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<---.++++++++++++.
00:55:15 <oklokok> get a real os and that's easy to do
00:55:18 <GregorR> I gave it maximum two minutes CPU time, but I'm also limiting it to 33% CPU, so I guess it has six minutes time :P
00:55:40 <GregorR> oklokok: Name one. And no, it's not even close to possible in Windows.
00:55:44 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<---.<++++++++++++.
00:55:57 <oklokok> my opinion is there isn't one
00:56:20 <Sukoshi> Which is why he uses Windows, because it's obviously as close to the real one as can be ;D
00:56:24 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/slox.php < my current solution
00:56:30 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.
00:56:39 <Figs> +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<.
00:56:43 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.---------.>++++[>++++++++<-]>.<.
00:56:49 <oklokok> i use both unix and windows, unix is better but my laptop feels nice on my lap.
00:57:11 * GregorR 's laptop runs GNU/Linux *shrugs*
00:57:40 <Sukoshi> So can our EgoBot crashing ability break slox, GregorR ?
00:57:54 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<.
00:58:13 <Figs> trying to figure out how to write "of course"
00:58:15 <GregorR> Sukoshi: No - but it runs one slox per process, so three processes = 100% CPU
00:58:21 <Figs> but I sux0r :P
00:59:06 <oklokok> GregorR: can't you just store the pids and renice when it opens new processes?
00:59:36 <GregorR> oklokok: niceness doesn't actually limit CPU usage, it just changes priority.
00:59:48 <oklokok> how do you change cpu usage then?
01:00:00 <GregorR> I want my room not to be so hot from my P4 :P
01:00:29 <GregorR> That BF should be close to dying now.
01:00:31 <pikhq> GregorR: Then get something other than a P4, dummy! :p
01:00:44 <GregorR> pikhq: Good thing I have giant piles of money lying around.
01:00:48 <Sukoshi> I think GregorR wants his room to be hot because of himself.
01:00:58 <GregorR> oklokok: http://www.codu.org/slox.php
01:01:00 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---.
01:01:34 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---.<.++++++.---.+.--------------.
01:01:49 <oklokok> GregorR: why doesn't what i said apply then?
01:02:06 <oklokok> if that can change cpu usage via pid
01:02:57 <GregorR> oklokok: Oh, I see what you're saying. Adjust such that everything is at .3/<number of pids>
01:04:12 <Figs> wow, what a waste of my time
01:04:20 <Figs> I can't even post it as a comment
01:04:33 <Figs> ] is disallowed
01:04:42 <Figs> did you ever play my song...?
01:05:01 <oklokok> i was on camp... and i've been idling for a week now :\
01:05:16 <Figs> are you ever going to?
01:05:19 <Figs> or did you give up?
01:05:52 <oklokok> if i printed the score, it shouldn't be that hard, it's just a bit tedious reading from the screenm
01:06:38 <oklokok> i can play most parts though, i just don't remember all of it without the score
01:07:17 <oklokok> there's the one quite mean part in the middle that i might need to work a bit
01:07:53 <oklokok> pieces, not people though!
01:08:14 <Figs> http://cid-c86a72bd35ce57db.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Transfer/5.mid
01:08:23 <oklokok> it's not the song, it's all the cigarettes you're smoking in my head
01:08:35 <oklokok> you're like the mafioso from hell
01:08:42 <Figs> too bad I don't smoke
01:08:57 * Figs rots in the corner for a while
01:09:23 <Figs> new piece I just wrote today
01:09:31 <Figs> I know it still needs work
01:10:09 <oklokok> that's a lot more impressive
01:10:43 <Figs> I know the entire song is playable though
01:11:06 <oklokok> sounds easier to play than the other one
01:11:12 <Figs> I'm sure it is
01:11:54 <Figs> it's loosely based on Sonata form
01:12:33 <Figs> C major - C minor - G major
01:12:39 <Figs> the three sections
01:12:59 <Figs> the second theme should remind you a bit of Mozart's Sonata No. 16 in C
01:13:13 <Figs> since that's where I got the idea to write a sonata-ish song
01:13:22 <Figs> http://www.kunstderfuge.com/-/midi.asp?file=mozart/piano_sonata_545_1_(c)oguri.mid
01:14:09 <oklokok> that change to minor was the thing i was most impressed by, it's a bit less impressive now that i know you did it knowingly :)
01:14:50 <Figs> it should be more impressive that I did it knowingly
01:14:57 <oklokok> i don't do much ...non-polyphonic music on piano nowadays
01:15:09 <Figs> I'm trying to arrange this one
01:15:23 <Figs> but it doesn't seem to be quite sonata like any more when I do
01:16:00 <oklokok> not imo, i think it's pretty impressive if you'd copy a trick like that from classical music without noticing it.
01:16:46 <oklokok> http://www.kunstderfuge.com/-/midi.asp?file=mozart/piano_sonata_545_1_(c)oguri.mid <<< doesn't work
01:19:19 <Figs> copy and paste
01:23:27 <Figs> http://cid-c86a72bd35ce57db.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Transfer/Sonata3tmp.mid
01:23:48 <Figs> you can see what I mean
01:27:55 <Figs> how is the melody though?
01:29:00 <Figs> you like the additional relative minor extention to the theme?
01:29:12 <oklokok> (the backround is pretty zelda, that is)
01:35:07 <oklokok> damn i gotta go sleep some.
01:36:57 <Figs> oklokok: Go sleep then :D
01:37:34 <Figs> you're talking about mine, right, and not the Mozart one?
01:37:46 * Figs is just checking
01:38:09 <Figs> (the ones on Windows Live are mine)
01:39:35 <Figs> I haven't quite got a game together yet to do the music for
01:39:49 <Figs> but I have some ideas once I do
01:41:24 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm in the process of building a series of libraries and game engines to help speed up game development with Java- a couple demos of what I'm working on are here http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CRPG/ and here http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/steamlock/
01:42:15 <Figs> I must warn you though I have a tendancy to get side tracked :P
01:42:38 <Figs> I've got like a dozen projects :P
01:42:46 <Figs> well, more like half a dozen
01:42:51 <Figs> I'm not *that* bad (yet)
01:42:52 <RodgerTheGreat> but I figure music, like art, is something that can be slowly made a little at a time as a game is developed
01:43:21 <Figs> but if you're just sitting around trying to build an engine... :P
01:43:27 <RodgerTheGreat> if you could stir yourself to make a track every few weeks, I could furnish games around them
01:43:43 <oklokok> i have over 100 projects unfinished easily :<
01:44:01 <Figs> I'm probably getting close to 1000
01:44:11 <RodgerTheGreat> my "projects" folder tells me I have about 18 in the works
01:44:14 <Figs> if you count every time I start a song and don't finish it
01:44:48 <oklokok> if you count in *all* the stuff i have not finished, then i might be close to 1000 as well...
01:44:54 <oklokok> i just meant programming projects
01:45:05 <Figs> I'd probably actually finish a game except that I'm terrible at pixel art
01:45:40 <Figs> I'm actually working on some projects that will be very useful for a game engine later
01:46:00 <RodgerTheGreat> well, even if we can't share code, we can still share ideas and assets
01:46:33 <RodgerTheGreat> right now, I'm building a reusable scripting engine that's easy to splice into an existing game engine
01:46:46 <Figs> that's kind of what I'm doing, except not... :P
01:47:12 <Figs> I wrote basically a runtime defined class a couple days ago
01:47:13 <RodgerTheGreat> if you're interested in poking around at what I've completed, take a look at this: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CogEngine/CogEngineA01.zip
01:47:42 <Figs> and I'm working on a dynamic table class right now
01:47:59 <Figs> I have a basic parser done, but it needs a lot of work to really be useable
01:48:08 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm basically implementing a modified version of FORTH with a system for extending the language with class-specific functions
01:48:48 <Figs> the way my code actually seems, it's like I'm building a scripting language inside C++ :P
01:49:05 <lament> you're implementing forth in java?
01:49:21 <Figs> and I'm not crazier?
01:49:56 <lament> but... why not just embed a real language?
01:50:09 <lament> i'm sure there's foo-in-jvm for some useful values of foo
01:50:20 <lament> sure, but you have to write it instead of concentrating on the game
01:50:54 <RodgerTheGreat> anybody can glue together a bunch of chunks of the Java API and call it good
01:51:28 <RodgerTheGreat> and this certainly isn't the only thing I'm working on
01:51:32 <Figs> While I tend to agree with you, it's also a big reason why most people never finish things... :)
01:51:47 <lament> yes, "reinventing the wheel" is.
01:51:48 <pikhq> if(-1 < 0) exit(0); // Can you tell me the scenarios where this *won't* exit?
01:52:25 <lament> RodgerTheGreat: no, when it's for fun it's still a reason why people never finish things.
01:52:40 <Figs> 1) when the code is completely skipped by, example, another block around it
01:53:36 <Figs> I'll let you know if I can think of a #2)
01:54:20 <pikhq> So it's: if(mem_offset < 0) ERROR("Went left of the array.\n");
01:54:37 <pikhq> And my printfs tell me that mem_offset == -1.
01:54:47 <Figs> rafb.net/paste
01:54:59 <Figs> let's see what you got :D
01:55:06 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bfi.c
01:55:22 <Figs> that works too
01:56:07 <Figs> where's your error?
01:56:11 <Figs> or not working bit?
01:57:46 <lament> i'd look at it if the mime type was set correctly! :)
01:58:01 <lament> (firefox doesn't want to display it)
01:58:16 <Figs> mem_offset is an unsigned value
01:58:35 <Figs> that's reason #2, I guess
01:59:05 <Figs> don't feel too stupid, that one got me too for a few minutes.
01:59:17 <pikhq> Now to see what the other bug is.
01:59:26 <Figs> what other bug?
01:59:32 <pikhq> The program I was testing it on, in egobfi8, doesn't go left in the array.
01:59:38 <pikhq> Well, doesn't go that far left.
02:00:09 <Figs> if you go too far left, then effectively, you end up at 0xFFFFFFFF I think, assuming 32 bit
02:00:18 <oklokok> (03:53:07) (pikhq) So it's: if(mem_offset < 0) ERROR("Went left of the array.\n");
02:00:18 <oklokok> (03:53:24) (pikhq) And my printfs tell me that mem_offset == -1.
02:00:29 <oklokok> hah, i figured it out without seeing the code :)
02:00:47 <pikhq> Figs: Yeah, that's how I found out that that was even an issue. . .
02:01:00 <pikhq> Believe it or not, realloc blows up on something insane like that.
02:01:30 <Figs> oklokok, you're supposed to be sleeping :P
02:02:50 <Figs> why not just go C++ and use a deque?
02:03:04 <Figs> then you can go left as much as you want
02:03:22 <oklokok> you sure this isn't my dream?
02:03:25 <Figs> sleep chatting, eh, oklokok? :P
02:03:28 <Figs> I've done it before
02:03:34 <Figs> dream chats...
02:03:39 <oklokok> i did just own you all by seeing through that error like a glass window
02:03:41 <Figs> I'm pretty sure this isn't your dream though
02:04:04 <Figs> re-read what you just said
02:04:12 <Figs> if it still says the same thing
02:04:24 <oklokok> that trick doesn't work for me, i've tried it in my sleep
02:04:24 <Figs> that's one way to test if you're asleep
02:04:30 <Figs> ok, then pull your finger
02:04:37 <Figs> and believe it will stretch
02:04:42 <Figs> WILL it to stretch
02:04:55 <Figs> it's not stretching, huh? :P
02:05:41 <Figs> ok, you can be asleep pikhq. But neither of us.
02:05:58 <Figs> RodgerTheGreat, are you interested in doing graphics for a platformer, by chance?
02:06:11 <pikhq> I think that what's in memory does not at all match the actual file.
02:06:28 <pikhq> I get to 2053 in the "to_interp" string. . .
02:06:35 <pikhq> Printf says that's a ].
02:06:47 <pikhq> My file says that it's a *completely* different character.
02:07:06 <Figs> explorer/adventure
02:07:29 <Figs> I have a few ideas for it, but not the full thing yet
02:08:48 <pikhq> Can you see anything else that's wrong in my bfi.c
02:09:00 <pikhq> Preferably before I stab gcc.
02:10:36 <Figs> nothing comes to mind
02:10:42 <Figs> doesn't mean it's right though :P
02:11:05 <pikhq> In fact, it's 100% *guaranteed* to be wrong. ;)
02:12:01 <Figs> now you've got me wanting to write a BF interpreter
02:12:17 <Figs> I shall not give in just yet
02:12:24 <Figs> I will wait till I finish my new parser
02:12:27 <Figs> and do that as a test
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06:22:57 <pikhq> (in conclusion, I hate C)
06:23:28 <Figs> >>> bf +++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.[>+>+<<-]>>---------.>++++++++[>++++<-]>.<<---.<.++++++.---.+.--------------.
06:23:40 <pikhq> When a language makes you wonder "Why the hell is my *Brainfuck* interpreter not working", I tend to hate it.
06:24:15 <Figs> good luck with that
06:24:42 <Figs> write a C compiler in BF!
06:25:09 <Figs> ... and then... run it with C?
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06:33:12 <Figs> >>> bf ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
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06:34:05 <pikhq> >>> bf ,[.,]<<<Hello, World!
06:34:21 <pikhq> >>> bf ,[.,] <<<Hello, World!
06:34:32 <Figs> don't you need a shift?
06:34:45 <Figs> I thought you were doing something else :P
06:35:05 <Figs> >>> bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
06:36:58 <Figs> how would you write a BF program to convert a byte to a printable representation?
06:39:08 <pikhq> Take a look at my atoi macro.
06:52:05 <Figs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_BASIC
06:58:48 <Figs> I'm using google as a spell checker
06:59:58 <Figs> And it suggests "indiscriminant" instead of "indiscriminate"?
07:00:13 <Figs> indiscriminant isn't a word O.o
07:00:51 <oerjan> so it clearly _could_ be a word
07:01:13 <Figs> Webster gives me nothing
07:01:54 <Figs> and discriminant only seems to be a word if you're talking about math
07:02:02 <Figs> (I can't find any other uses)
07:02:11 <oerjan> sure, that's where i know it from
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07:03:04 <oerjan> google gives 82000 hits for indiscriminant vs. 4160000 for indiscriminate
07:04:14 <GregorR> http://www.codu.org/blog/?comment=20070814014954 [now with photo evidence]
07:04:37 <Figs> indiscriminant is a
07:04:44 <Figs> sorry for the break.
07:05:04 <Figs> My enter key finger got anxious, I guess...
07:05:49 <oerjan> the chances are obviously 1 in a million, which means it will happen 9 times out of 10
07:08:42 <Figs> which hat are you wearing today?
07:08:51 <GregorR> As recorded on choosemyhat.com ;P
07:08:56 <Figs> the green one?
07:09:07 <Figs> I'm already there
07:09:15 <Figs> I just wasn't sure what time zone you were in
07:09:25 <Figs> my memory slips
07:09:40 <GregorR> Well, unless it changes by 1AM when the votes are locked in, the Tyrolean.
07:10:11 <Figs> I vote red hat
07:10:17 * Figs doesn't know the name
07:10:41 <Figs> Fedora, I think
07:10:46 <GregorR> I actually meant "please vote for those days that have no votes" :P
07:10:47 <Figs> judging by the image name
07:11:26 * Figs has voted GreenFez for wednesday
07:12:52 <Figs> I vote Grey Fedora for monday the 20th!
07:14:08 <Figs> what do you do if there's a tie?
07:17:14 <Figs> I guess I didn't make a good vote then
07:17:26 <Figs> *sees note on red fedora*
07:25:02 <Figs> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070813-investors-bailing-on-sco-stock-scox-plummets.html
07:49:01 <oklokok> >>> bf ,[.,] <<< Hello, World!
07:49:07 <oklokok> pikhq: you need the spaces
07:49:19 <oklokok> because that'd be even more dangerous if not.
07:49:46 <Figs> heading off for a little while
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08:15:31 <oklokok> headed off for 7 seconds there, huh?
08:15:49 <oklokok> good you warned, i might've gotten worried ;)
08:16:20 <oerjan> er, he joined first, then left
08:17:11 <oklokok> (10:15:47) (+Tietovisa) Pelaajalla oklopol on nyt 6444 pistett ja hn on sijalla 9th/1009, edelln Juk_Juk pisteill 7064.
08:17:19 <oklokok> also, perfect time to go to school ->
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11:45:34 <ehird`> damn people who don't register their nicks
11:59:28 <Ciaran_H> I was about to say that I haven't registered mine, then I realised I'm on FreeNode, so I actually have. (for some reason I initially thought this was another IRC network)
12:12:40 <ehird`> poiuy_qwert isn't registered
12:12:42 <ehird`> so i can't send a memo
12:13:08 <Ciaran_H> Who owns clog? I tried to register for ircbrowse yesterday but I haven't had an email yet.
12:14:27 <oerjan> oh, i'm sure their email pipes are just, you know ...
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16:05:13 <RodgerTheGreat> I've semi-completed a little scripting language I began yesterday
16:05:30 <RodgerTheGreat> lemme pastebin a fibonacci sequence program I wrote for it...
16:11:47 <ehird`> did you perhaps base it on forth :p
16:16:43 <oklokok> i have absolutely no idea how that works
16:18:08 <oklokok> does glass have inheritance?
16:21:28 <ihope_> RodgerTheGreat: what does pushdown do?
16:21:53 <RodgerTheGreat> it pushes the value on the top of the stack to the bottom of the stack
16:24:49 <ihope_> Is there a way to pull it back to the top?
16:28:08 <ihope_> And to push it down only a certain number of spots?
16:28:38 <ehird`> oklokok: how is 4d pong going
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18:43:03 <lament> does anybody know a working neural net library?
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20:51:15 <ehird`> wow, it sure is ages since i've been on this imac
20:51:20 <ehird`> i forgot how... silent... it is
20:51:48 <ehird`> suddenly.. i wonder where my personal 24/7 helicopter launch went..
20:52:18 <ehird`> and who laminated all this screen text..
20:56:27 <bsmntbombdood> i've yet to understand back propagation neural networks
20:56:39 <ehird`> i've yet to understand THE ESSENCE OF COOKIES
20:57:52 <lament> i've yet to understand why this neural net library JUST DOESNT FRICKING WORK :(
20:57:56 <ehird`> hey, what's this? A C COMPILER THAT ACTUALLY WORKS?
20:59:24 <ehird`> hey, what's this? my actual full music library? amazing.
20:59:30 <ehird`> why did i use the pc :/
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21:02:59 <SimonRC> RodgerTheGreat: I would recommend using an auxiliary stack rather than moving things to the bottom of the stack
21:03:34 <RodgerTheGreat> it's not horribly expensive if I keep track of start and end sentinels on my stack
21:07:10 * SimonRC thinks that could be a little slow
21:21:46 <SimonRC> "There is no silver bullet, but there are plenty of blancmange ones."
21:22:35 <ehird`> there's a PLATINUM BULLET!
21:22:47 <ehird`> it just requires solving the halting problem..
21:23:01 <SimonRC> (Just because a good language choice will not make a problem magically easier doesn't mean that a bad language choice can't make it magically harder.)
21:23:50 <GregorR> dwimlang makes problems easier.
21:24:12 <SimonRC> does it handle requirements gathering
21:25:16 <GregorR> With code such as "Do my laundry" and "Tell me if this program halts"
21:25:39 <ehird`> So it's like superturing instant IRP
21:26:35 <GregorR> You don't even have to be capable of fully articulating the problem.
21:26:47 <GregorR> It's capable of inferring and Doing What You Mean.
21:26:59 <ehird`> "run the best program ever"
21:27:22 <ehird`> "make... me a sandwhich"
21:27:24 <SimonRC> find the purpose of the unives
21:27:44 <SimonRC> no, that is a the Answer to the Question
21:28:13 <SimonRC> remember, the question is probably "what is six times seven?"
21:46:28 <SimonRC> ehird`: If you think that 6*9 is the right Question then you didn't read the book properly.
21:47:09 <SimonRC> Ford specifically speculates that the arrival of the Golgafrinchams has slightly upset the Earth Program.
21:47:26 <SimonRC> right, now for a better question:
21:47:41 <lament> should i skip the first two days of classes at university so i can go to mexico?
21:47:50 <SimonRC> Where did the readout of the final result occur?
21:48:30 <SimonRC> It is strongly hinted that the Answer was emmitted in a certain way, soon after the Earth was replaced.
21:52:05 <SimonRC> She mentions to Arthur a sudden revelation while sitting in a café.
21:52:22 <ehird`> Fenchurch was the one who "got" the answer
21:52:40 <SimonRC> and she mentions it to Arthur
21:52:47 <ehird`> Also, the upsetting the earth program stuff doesn't hold... Arthur isn't part of Earth...
21:53:10 <ehird`> No... He's a descendant of the aliens who crashed there
21:53:45 <ehird`> Just trips off the tounge
21:53:50 <SimonRC> but that only caused the program to produce slightly the wrong answer
21:54:03 <SimonRC> because the rest of the Earth was as it is supposed to be
21:54:25 <SimonRC> also, Arthur is from a time a few minutes before the Answer was due to b produced
21:54:43 <ehird`> No, author could not have the question in his brain.
21:54:49 <ehird`> Only the organic parts of Earth have it.
21:54:55 <ehird`> Well, only the organic parts recieve the computation
21:55:02 <ehird`> And there's none left that are sentient; obviously
21:55:12 <ehird`> The golablahs killed them off by cutting down forests
21:55:29 <ehird`> And... well; maybe I'm interpreting the book differently than you
21:56:13 <SimonRC> I assumed that the Earth as a whole is doing the computing, and living is the method by which many of the parts communicate
21:56:59 <ehird`> I thought that the whole "and living organisms form part of the computation process" bit meant that Earth spawned living organisms which were part of it
21:57:02 <SimonRC> If you replace one part (ape-descendants) with another one almost the same (Golgafrinchams), you still get roughly the right answer
21:57:08 <ehird`> not "oh we just send a radio signal to anyone in range"
21:57:44 <SimonRC> "living is the method by which many of the parts communicate"
21:58:02 <ehird`> that isn't how i read it personally
21:58:33 <SimonRC> the bastard upped and died so we can't ask him
21:59:23 <ehird`> "You want to know answers? Haha! Try that... when I'm DEAD!@
21:59:25 <ehird`> what use is that, really
22:00:13 <SimonRC> The last one is even better. That fecking bird drives the whole plot forward by following an instruction he isn't given until the end of the book.
22:00:23 <SimonRC> And we don;t even see him being given it!
22:00:30 <ehird`> I honestly can't remember the last book.
22:00:49 <ehird`> I only remember the ending
22:01:11 <SimonRC> presumably, Jeltz said near the end, "Destroy the Earth, and make sure it stays destroyed."
22:01:44 <ehird`> Actually the last book made little sense to me
22:01:57 <ehird`> i understood about 50% of it
22:01:58 <SimonRC> It takes a couple of readings
22:02:07 <ehird`> the rest of the books were fine
22:02:21 <ehird`> but the last was like 10 2001spaceoddysseys
22:02:32 <SimonRC> That is the problem with the Bird. It responds to things before we find out what they are. And it does so in very subtle ways.
22:03:07 <ehird`> i'm sorry, it is ages since i read the series for the last time
22:03:35 <SimonRC> Everything it does is designed to get all the relevent people onto the Earth(s) and make sure that every Earth gets destroyed somehow.
22:04:27 <SimonRC> The one we see is destroyed by the race of aliens who forgot who they were
22:04:59 <SimonRC> quite possibly the asteroid strike that caused that was engineered by the Bird, because...
22:05:47 <ehird`> i think i'll continue understanding the previous books
22:05:51 <ehird`> none of this makes much sense :p
22:05:51 <SimonRC> not only did it cuase them to get lost and become motivated to blow up the Earth, but their absense from a certain war is what causes Trillian to go off an report on that war. (IIRC)
22:06:50 <SimonRC> Trillian mentions the missing ship when she is arguing with Random
22:19:45 -!- GregorR has changed nick to _D6Gregor1RFeZi.
22:36:51 <bsmntbombdood> ~exec self.register_raw(r"^:(\S+)!\S+ PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.*)", lambda x, y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s says %s" % (y.group(1), y.group(2))))
22:45:23 <ehird`> bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa
22:45:24 <bsmnt_bot> ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa
22:45:30 <ehird`> bsmnt_bot says ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa
22:45:30 <bsmnt_bot> ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says bsmnt_bot says ehird` says aaa
22:46:26 <lament> ~exec bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will stop flooding.")
22:46:27 <bsmnt_bot> lament says ~exec bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will stop flooding.")
22:47:23 <lament> ~exec bot._raw, bot.raw = bot.raw, (lambda x:0)
22:47:24 <bsmnt_bot> lament says ~exec bot._raw, bot.raw = bot.raw, (lambda x:0)
22:48:17 <lament> so quiet all of a sudden :)
22:50:19 <lament> yes, this is truly tragic
22:52:29 <ehird`> ~exec print >>sys.stdout, "HELLO WORLD"
22:52:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:52:40 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
22:52:45 <ehird`> isn't stdout $channel?
22:53:10 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw = lambda x: self.raw(x)
22:53:24 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:53:32 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
22:53:42 <sp3tt> will python allow that?
22:54:05 <sp3tt> self.raw = lamba x: self.raw(x)
22:54:13 <sp3tt> but it will raise an exception, right?
22:54:27 <ehird`> it will eventually crap and run out of stack space
22:54:42 <ehird`> unless you use stackless python
22:54:44 <sp3tt> python can recurse but it will raise a RecursionError (?)
22:54:51 <bsmntbombdood> you get a RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
22:54:53 <sp3tt> maximmum recursion depth exceeded
22:54:54 <ehird`> or have a weird tail-call optimization-implementing interp
22:55:48 <lament> tail-call optimization isn't at all weird; the python compiler is just really stupid
22:55:58 <ehird`> it's weird for a python interp
22:56:07 <bsmnt_bot> AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute '_raw'
22:56:23 <ehird`> because no python interp does it
22:56:31 <ehird`> ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(0)
22:56:32 <bsmnt_bot> ValueError: recursion limit must be positive
22:56:38 <ehird`> ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(0.1)
22:56:38 <bsmnt_bot> ValueError: recursion limit must be positive
22:56:41 <ehird`> ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(1)
22:56:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:56:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
22:57:09 <ehird`> sp3tt: yeah, it dies just beginning recursion
22:57:18 <sp3tt> fractional iteration =)
22:57:29 <sp3tt> fractional calculus ftw
22:57:31 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: you can't call ANYTHING from anything else?
22:57:44 <ehird`> i want a programming language like that
22:57:52 <ehird`> i'll call it "even more retarded than BASIC"
22:57:56 <sp3tt> you... already have it?
22:59:24 <lament> lots of languages don't have procedures
22:59:40 <ehird`> but you can't call a procedure inside a procedures
22:59:55 <ehird`> so procedures basically execute in a retarded version of the code
23:00:25 <bsmntbombdood> if you set the recursion too high you get a segfault
23:00:35 <lament> ehird`: some extensions to brainfuck are like that
23:00:45 <lament> ehird`: also, C macros
23:00:45 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:47 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined.
23:00:53 <ehird`> ~exec sys.setrecursionlimit(i)
23:00:53 <bsmnt_bot> NameError: name 'i' is not defined
23:00:59 <ehird`> how do you get i in python
23:01:14 <lament> ehird`: don't be stupid, it wants an integer
23:01:21 <ehird`> i still want to pass it i
23:01:35 <lament> you'll just get another ValueError
23:02:14 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw((0, 1j))
23:02:15 <bsmnt_bot> TypeError: can only concatenate tuple (not "str") to tuple
23:02:22 <ehird`> ~exec self.raw(str((0, 1j)))
23:02:38 <ehird`> bsmnt_bot doesn't care
23:02:46 <lament> i mean bsmntbombdood: 1j is i
23:02:59 <sp3tt> ehimport cmath; 1jj
23:03:01 <lament> ehird`: seriously, why don't you do all this in a python interpreter
23:03:15 <ehird`> lament: not as fun as killing stuff in a bot
23:03:24 <lament> you're not killing anything, you're just flooding
23:03:58 <lament> you're trying to guess the syntax of python stuff as opposed to looking it up
23:04:46 <ehird`> no, i'm just playing with the bot
23:09:44 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:09:45 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:12:53 <ehird`> i like javascript; it's a good language
23:13:03 <ehird`> it's just overshadowed by the evil browser implementations :(
23:13:09 <ehird`> hey, it has first class functions.
23:13:12 <ehird`> and a decent object system.
23:15:07 <lament> rewrite bsmnt_bot in smetana
23:15:19 <lament> it's a good choice because there's no output
23:15:31 <ehird`> sounds like a bad choice for a primarily IO based bot
23:15:36 <bsmntbombdood> that sounds like something that grows if you don't take enough showers
23:15:43 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: esolang
23:16:05 <lament> ehird`: it will minimize the flooding :)
23:19:23 <ehird`> blahbot is better than them all
23:19:25 <ehird`> although i have not the code on this imac...
23:19:29 <pikhq> Gregor, why are you a D function now?
23:20:04 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+").
23:22:08 <pikhq> ~exec self.registerraw(r"^:(\S+)!\S+ PRIVMSG #esoteric:(.*)", lambda x, y: bot.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s" % (y.group(2)))
23:22:09 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing
23:22:21 <pikhq> Oh well, my evil won't hit everyone.
23:22:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
23:22:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:23:27 <ehird`> whoa, devnonsense code
23:24:27 <ehird`> class Fake; def channel; "#devnonsense"; end; def content; "@save"; end; end
23:24:27 <ehird`> seed_nonsense(nil, Fake.new)
23:24:31 <ehird`> that code is >so< a hack
23:29:21 -!- rbirc has joined.
23:29:22 -!- rbirc has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:31:49 -!- devnonsense has joined.
23:32:32 <ehird`> #devnonsense for his output
23:32:35 <ehird`> he's as deranged as ever.
23:33:21 -!- devnonsense has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:35:05 * ehird` wipes his memory; starts over
23:35:19 -!- devnonsense has joined.
23:35:37 <ehird`> [23:34] devnonsense: it I I it I the it I
23:35:37 <ehird`> [23:34] devnonsense: the it it I I I
23:35:38 <ehird`> [23:34] devnonsense: the I oh it the oh
23:36:09 <ehird`> "reuters drycleaning it off legal ridicule"
23:36:20 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:41:35 <pikhq> So, what're you seeding it from?
23:42:13 <ehird`> he occasionally made >very< deep comments
23:42:19 <ehird`> normally comments disparaging to other people
23:42:23 <pikhq> The wikipedia seed is a *very* good source.
23:42:33 <ehird`> That's where it was born.
23:42:43 <ehird`> It was talking coherently every now and then in less than half an hour
23:43:18 <ehird`> More like "random punctuation, or word?@
23:43:22 <ehird`> then it chooses a random word
23:43:34 <pikhq> It's literally just picking words at random?
23:43:43 <ehird`> And occasionally adding punctuation. yeah
23:44:09 <ehird`> Heck, i pasted a few of its generated text lines in #wikipedia once
23:44:14 <ehird`> nobody noticed it was a machine
23:44:40 <ehird`> got repeat hopeless system born recovery lines bsmntbombdood international washington to
23:44:43 <pikhq> I think that's more a result of average IRC english than your bot's quality.
23:45:15 -!- _D6Gregor1RFeZi has changed nick to GregorR.
23:45:29 <ehird`> #wikipedia has better english than most places
23:45:32 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
23:46:14 <pikhq> "what is do im half\nmarkov"
23:46:37 <ehird`> less like im incorrect please shoot theres
23:46:37 <ehird`> [23:45] devnonsense: laughed experiementing im just punctuation with
23:46:43 <pikhq> Is it actually achieving sentience?
23:46:53 <ehird`> "experiementing im just punctuation with"
23:46:58 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: #devnonsense
23:47:07 <ehird`> irc from various channels, regurgiatated randomly
23:47:35 <ehird`> "not deep coherently not gentoo bots
23:47:36 <pikhq> Although I think it's wanting to be Markov now.
23:47:42 <ehird`> is he more coherent than gentoo bots?!
23:47:47 <pikhq> "yey thatll repeat"
23:47:55 <ehird`> @sucks with recovery although cute"
23:48:24 <ehird`> "youre pikhq shrugging want ok there hour heck"
23:48:25 <pikhq> And yet, at the same time, it's spewing out some nonsense.
23:48:33 <ehird`> "tomaw repeat regurgiatated generated"
23:48:43 <ehird`> omg, he called markov hopeless
23:49:36 <ehird`> "again password required what $54 chanserv
23:49:41 <pikhq> He's moving on to *better* AI systems!
23:49:47 <pikhq> His demands don't stop!!!
23:50:09 <pikhq> Eventually he's going to want to run on Deep Blue.
23:50:15 <ehird`> ehird`: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
23:50:15 <ehird`> [23:49] devnonsense: u average going you need my an
23:50:46 <ehird`> [23:49] devnonsense: open again now
23:51:21 <ehird`> "once markov one id 2 like average word"
23:53:28 <ehird`> "its moving access stupid experiments actually j4cbo speaker219"
23:53:31 <ehird`> he knows he is a stupid experiemtn
23:54:24 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect
23:55:57 <ehird`> have please password ehird aesclepius recovery it
23:56:12 <pikhq> Realise that I anthropomorphise *every* program, not just AIs. ;)
23:56:38 <lament> I have no idea what "Programming languages are usually designed to prevent unintended ELIZA effects by restricting keywords and carefully avoiding potential misinterpretations" means
23:56:39 <oerjan> ancient garbled sweet mercy octopus soup
23:57:20 <oerjan> it probably means most PLs don't try to be too close to English syntax
23:57:53 <ehird`> pikhq: oh come on tar, don't be like this, you always put me in sticky situations
23:58:04 <oerjan> because that might cause people to think it actually understands what they say
23:58:11 <ehird`> for went hi carefully nonsense all someone hostname bots around xchat comments effects
23:59:24 <oerjan> i recall (from Lambda the Ultimate?) that some attempted exceptions (Applescript?) lead to problems in this way
23:59:42 <ehird`> applescript is god-awful