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01:03:09 <bsmntbombdood> http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/09/the_perspex_machine_superturin.php
01:03:10 <bsmntbombdood> wtf?
01:03:22 <bsmntbombdood> it's superturing because it can be extended to hold reals?
01:03:39 <bsmntbombdood> uhh...how bout you extend a turing machine to hold a real in each cell instead of a symbol?
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01:20:29 <oerjan> well then you would have made a super-turing machine, obviously :)
01:21:50 <bsmntbombdood> what do you expect from the nullity guy
01:26:36 <pikhq> All in favor of implementing a Perspex Machine emulator on a Turing machine, in the name of proving him more wrong?
01:27:59 <pikhq> Wait. . . He argues that a Turing machine can't even *hold* a real?
01:28:14 <pikhq> It's got an infinite amount of space. It can hold an infinite amount of reals.
01:28:29 <bsmntbombdood> but it can't do anything with them
01:28:33 <oerjan> well it cannot.  memory is finite at any given time.
01:29:03 <pikhq> oerjan: A universal Turing machine has infinite memory.
01:29:18 <bsmntbombdood> s/infinite/unbounded/
01:29:22 <oerjan> no, it has infinitely _extensible_ memory
01:29:41 <_D6Gregor1RFeZi> You can't process an irrational number because doing so puts you into an infinite loop.
01:29:48 <bsmntbombdood> right
01:29:52 <pikhq> Well, there is that. . .
01:30:43 <pikhq> Of course, an infinity machine could easily emulate a perspex machine. ;)
01:30:51 <pikhq> (but not the other way around. :D)
01:33:32 <pikhq> (of course, the infinity machine, unlike the perspex machine, was designed as more of a thought experiment)
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01:43:46 <ihope_> Turing machines can sort of deal with real numbers.
01:44:29 <oerjan> only countably many of them...
01:44:42 <ihope_> Yes.
01:44:55 <ihope_> Give me a real number that a Turing machine cannot handle. :-P
01:45:13 <oerjan> omega
01:45:28 <ihope_> Doesn't sound like a real number to me.
01:45:40 <ihope_> ...oh, that?
01:45:41 <g4lt-sb100> 2^.5
01:45:50 <ihope_> Chaitin's constant or whatever?
01:46:17 <oerjan> yep
01:46:48 <ihope_> g4lt-sb100: I think 2^.5 is firmly within the realm of computability.
01:47:20 <g4lt-sb100> not in polynomial time
01:47:21 <oerjan> indeed, an algebraic number
01:47:48 <oerjan> no one has mentioned polynomial time, or digits for that matter
01:52:50 <ihope_> I guess handling real numbers is sort of the same as handling sets of rational numbers.
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01:53:29 <ihope_> That is, the sets that contain some rational numbers but not others,
01:53:31 <ihope_> Er.
01:54:39 <ihope_> That is, the bounded, non-empty, downward closed sets of rational numbers that do not have maxima.
01:55:02 <bsmntbombdood> a turing machine can't decide if two real numbers are equal
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01:55:52 <ihope_> Well, there's no way you can even give a Turing machine any two real numbers.
01:56:50 <oerjan> my impression is that a computable real is a function which given a bound will calculate a rational that lies within that distance of the real, or an equivalent
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01:57:06 <oerjan> formulation
01:58:13 <oerjan> say, a decreasing sequence of intervals
01:59:26 <ihope_> Or a function that compares the real number to its argument?
01:59:53 <oerjan> nope, you cannot do that because if they are equal it might not be provable
02:01:20 <oerjan> you need some slack in the questions you ask :)
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02:02:16 <oerjan> say, you could pass it two different arguments and it would answer either that it was largest than the smallest or smaller than the largest
02:02:25 <oerjan> *larger than
02:04:54 <oerjan> strangely you can also ask it for a correctly rounded printout to some number of digits - as long as you allow it to possibly give one more digit than you ask for
02:19:10 <bsmntbombdood> aren't all reals computable then?
02:19:36 <oerjan> er, the function itself should be computable
02:21:08 <oerjan> so no
02:21:22 <bsmntbombdood> ?
02:21:57 * ihope_ attempts to find something similar to irreal numbers
02:22:08 <oerjan> ?
02:22:34 <bsmntbombdood> division is closed over the reals
02:22:36 <oerjan> you mean surreal, or something else?
02:22:42 <oerjan> or irrational?
02:22:44 <bsmntbombdood> sans 0 of course
02:25:50 <oerjan> indeed
02:38:41 <ihope_> Something like surreal.
02:39:20 <ihope_> You fill in the rational numbers with the irrational numbers. You fill in the real numbers with... nothing.
02:39:56 <bsmntbombdood> complex numbers
02:40:05 <bsmntbombdood> and irrational=real
02:41:38 <oerjan> rationals are people^H^H^H^H^H^Hreals too
02:42:04 <ihope_> The imaginary numbers aren't the sort of filling-in I was thinking of.
02:42:32 <oerjan> well, the reals _are_ complete.  have you looked at nonstandard analysis?
02:42:38 <ihope_> I was thinking the LUBs of sets of real numbers. These are, of course, also real numbers.
02:42:48 <ihope_> Maybe. What is it?
02:43:15 <g4lt-sb100> soylernt rationals are people, you must tell them, soylent rationals are PEOPLE
02:43:35 * pikhq just saw that movie a few days ago for the first time, BTW
02:43:39 <oerjan> you add new reals by passing to a larger model of the same axioms
02:44:51 <oerjan> using something called ultraproducts, iirc
02:45:08 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: A turing machine could actually tell you if two real numbers were not equal, though. ;)
02:45:21 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: no it couldn't
02:45:42 <bsmntbombdood> a machine to do so wouldn't always halt
02:45:42 <pikhq> (this assumes a way to store the real number is devised. . . :p)
02:45:44 <oerjan> _if_ two computable real numbers were not equal, it could tell you.
02:46:04 <bsmntbombdood> yeah
02:46:07 <oerjan> note the subtle lack of requirement to tell you if they are
02:46:07 <pikhq> Which, of course, is why I said that.
02:46:32 <bsmntbombdood> but it's not very usefull to know if two numbers are equal if you already know they are
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05:34:55 <immibis> !daemon cat bf ,[.,]
05:35:04 <EgoBot> meow
05:35:09 <EgoBot> Daemon created
05:36:36 <bsmntbombdood> meow?
05:36:50 <immibis> it's a *cat*
05:37:03 <immibis> !ps d
05:37:06 <EgoBot> 1 immibis: daemon cat bf
05:37:07 <EgoBot> 2 immibis: daemon annoyimmibis bf
05:37:09 <EgoBot> 3 immibis: bf_txtgen
05:37:12 <EgoBot> 4 immibis: ps
05:38:10 <immibis> hmm
05:38:13 <immibis> !annoyimmibis xxx
05:41:18 <EgoBot> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat ~exec self.raw"PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi"")
05:41:18 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
05:41:31 <EgoBot> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat ~exec self.raw\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi\"")
05:41:32 <bsmnt_bot> !cat ~exec self.raw"PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi"
05:41:35 <EgoBot> ~exec self.raw"PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi"
05:41:36 <bsmnt_bot> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
05:41:50 <EgoBot> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :!cat ~exec self.raw(\"PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi\")")
05:41:50 <bsmnt_bot> !cat ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi")
05:41:54 <EgoBot> ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi")
05:41:54 <bsmnt_bot> hi
05:42:06 <EgoBot> Hi
05:43:38 <ihope_> !annoyimmibis yyy
05:43:49 <ihope_> Doesn't seem to do much.
05:44:08 <immibis> it messages me
05:49:51 <ihope_> I see.
05:50:06 <immibis> "!annoyimmibis yyy" is the same as "/msg immibis yyy" except that then the message comes from EgoBot
05:50:53 <immibis> !help
05:50:56 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
05:50:57 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
06:08:56 <pikhq> !annoyimmibis Does this annoy people in chat, too?
06:08:59 <pikhq> Nope.
06:09:17 <immibis> [17:08] <EgoBot> Does this annoy people in chat, too?
06:09:23 <EgoBot> [17:08] <EgoBot> Does this annoy people in chat, too?
06:09:29 <immibis> !annoyimmibis are you sure?
06:09:37 <EgoBot> are you sure?
06:09:54 <pikhq> ...
06:10:01 <immibis> ok, i used !cat
06:10:08 <pikhq> !cat XD
06:10:12 <EgoBot> XD
06:10:53 <immibis> !annoyimmibis yadayadayada
06:10:56 <EgoBot> yadayadayada
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14:42:30 <ehird`> anyone alive?
14:43:01 <oerjan> NO </plutonium voice>
14:43:44 <oerjan> hm, or should that be plutonian?
14:45:09 <oerjan> google says 7 to 6 for plutonian
14:47:17 <ehird`> YESNO </no>
14:47:28 <ehird`> GOD</avocado>
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14:52:56 <oerjan> :t fromMaybe
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19:05:38 * SimonRC got to the british summer school for the IMO one year
19:06:18 <pikhq> Abuh?
19:06:23 <oklopol> heh
19:06:58 <oklopol> what a bunch of geniuses we are
19:10:09 <RodgerTheGreat> ?
19:11:05 <oklopol> i was bragging about my "success" in the finnish national math thingie
19:11:13 <oklopol> the one before imo
19:12:01 <SimonRC> how successful?
19:12:32 <SimonRC> (BTW, most of my maths class has a go at the first set of tests)
19:13:41 <oklopol> i got to the finals
19:14:01 <oklopol> that was in the 9th grade
19:14:28 <oklopol> in high school i was the 5th, but i forgot to go to a ...camp or something
19:14:43 <oklopol> that was to pick out the guys for the olympics
19:15:04 <RodgerTheGreat> my highschool did something resembling what you've described, although in this case we were allowed to use a calculator. I scored in the top %5 of my school, in many cases solving problems by writing programs instead of the "correct way". Then I got to go on to the second half based on my original score, but I felt pretty SOL without my beloved TI-83+
19:15:23 <oklopol> heh
19:15:40 <oklopol> i had about 1.5 times more points than the next one in our school
19:15:45 <oklopol> and he was the 86th iirc
19:15:49 <oklopol> in finland
19:15:49 <RodgerTheGreat> I actually got full points on one question there by writing out a TI-BASIC program that would generate the right answer and a detailed explanation of how it worked, which surprised me
19:15:52 <oklopol> yeah, small country.
19:16:18 <oklopol> that's pretty cool :P
19:16:20 <oklopol> with the basic?
19:16:25 <SimonRC> we are a lot of geniuses here...
19:16:27 <SimonRC> :-)
19:16:41 <RodgerTheGreat> I love BASIC for a number of reasons
19:17:23 <ihope> I like Haskell and wish my calculator supported it.
19:17:58 <SimonRC> ihope: use Forth.  it has oomph
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19:18:21 <ihope> On my calculator?
19:18:40 * oerjan hates autumn.
19:18:57 <oerjan> wind, rain, cold, darkness, instant depression.
19:19:08 <oklopol> uh
19:19:13 <oklopol> i love all of those
19:19:29 <SimonRC> ihope: Forth is just the thing for interactive development on small systems
19:19:43 <SimonRC> oerjan: and I like some of them
19:19:43 <ihope> Sounds good.
19:20:00 <SimonRC> You calculators is more powerful than many early Forth systems
19:20:08 -!- ehird` has quit ("Pong timeout").
19:20:09 <SimonRC> *Your calculator
19:20:39 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: in case you don't read logs and know basic, take a look at my games TI :P http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p312111352.txt
19:20:42 <oklopol> *TI games
19:21:10 <SimonRC> oerjan: why all the colons?
19:21:13 <oklopol> pong was a 2 hour project, the worm thingie 3 hours, but i didn't know the language yet
19:21:21 <oklopol> that's how a line starts
19:21:24 <oerjan> huh?
19:21:26 <oklopol> you lazy tabber.
19:21:31 <oerjan> ah
19:22:05 <ihope> Pong. My.
19:23:07 <oklopol> hmm... gotta go read some physics, been meaning to go for about 2 days, y'all have fun here ->
19:25:36 <RodgerTheGreat> holy poop, I think I can still read this code
19:25:57 <oklopol> god i'm bad at leaving the computer.
19:26:20 <oklopol> guess the fact i don't care about physics might have something to do with it
19:26:52 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: if you find anything i could've done better, don't hesitate to tell me
19:27:08 <oklopol> i just know the basics from trial-and-error
19:27:54 <oklopol> now, retry ->
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19:28:30 <RodgerTheGreat> well, I know a few general optimization tricks
19:28:56 <RodgerTheGreat> for example, in a function call like :Pxl-On(I,21), you can leave off the end ), and the interpreter doesn't complain
19:29:07 <RodgerTheGreat> that can shave quite a few bytes off of many programs
19:30:02 <SimonRC> ouch
19:30:28 <RodgerTheGreat> also, single if statements can be compressed from If condition:Then:statement:End into "If condition:statement"
19:30:39 <RodgerTheGreat> that only works when your conditional controls a oneliner
19:30:54 <SimonRC> oh, man, sometimes things just happen that you couldn't do deliberately...
19:31:03 <RodgerTheGreat> basically, TI-BASIC's If takes the form of "If not condition, skip next instruction"
19:31:12 <RodgerTheGreat> what's up, SimonRC?
19:31:34 <SimonRC> elsenet, there was a discussion on how to improve masturbation.  Some guy comes in, and before anyone says anything, quotes the Beatles: "All you need it love".
19:31:43 <SimonRC> :-D
19:31:47 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
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19:32:08 <SimonRC> I would put it on bash, except maybe my parents should not see it
19:32:49 * SimonRC goes to dinner
19:33:02 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: follow me on those tips?
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19:33:35 <RodgerTheGreat> You could probably reduce those programs in size between 10 and 20%, and they'd execute a little faster
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19:39:48 <RodgerTheGreat> ehird`: connection issues?
19:40:14 <ehird`> RodgerTheGreat: switching-to-a-new-client issues
19:40:33 <RodgerTheGreat> ah
19:40:35 <ehird`> specifically, getting Linkinus to realise that yes, damnit, you can connect there
19:40:42 <ehird`> and that yes, damnit, you can autoidentify me
19:41:29 <RodgerTheGreat> lol
19:41:45 <ehird`> specifically, GOD WHY DON'T YOU KNOW HOW TO USE NICKSERV LINKINUS
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19:42:09 <oerjan> it doesn't do server passwords?
19:42:23 <ehird`> it should
19:42:56 <oerjan> then the client tells the server, which tells nickserv, iiuc
19:43:28 <ehird`> let's try that again
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19:44:17 <oerjan> also, that doesn't work if you keep a reference to the start of [1,1..]
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19:48:57 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: sorry, was making snacks
19:49:04 <oklopol> (soon physics1)
19:49:23 <RodgerTheGreat> 'sokay
19:50:39 <oklopol> oh, that's why the Else.
19:50:48 <oklopol> i was wondering what the fuck was up with that :D
19:50:59 <oklopol> but indeed, because you can do oneliners
19:51:05 <oklopol> ...
19:51:09 <oklopol> s/Else/Then
19:55:14 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah
19:56:09 <bsmntbombdood> SimonRC: your parents read bash?
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20:03:10 <ehird`> maybe NOW it will work!!!!!
20:05:56 <oerjan> you're identified, at least
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20:17:07 <oerjan> well, so much for that theory.
20:17:37 <ehird`> colloquy is /almost/ better than this
20:17:40 <ehird`> thats saying a lot
20:17:51 <g4lt-sb100> xchat FTW
20:17:59 <ehird`> xchat aqua is fugly
20:18:31 <g4lt-sb100> I never said it was pretty, I just said it works
20:20:16 <g4lt-sb100> remember, form FOLLOWS functionality, meaning it's about as worthless as teats on a boar hog without functionality
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20:29:56 <ehird`> g4lt-sb100: linkinius IS very functional... its just buggy :p
20:30:01 <ehird`> thankfully i seem to have fixed all that
20:30:16 <oerjan> famous last words :D
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20:31:23 <ehird`> READ ERROR
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20:46:06 <bsmntbombdood> hooray beer
20:54:57 <ihope> Time to implement something!
20:55:17 <bsmntbombdood> what?
20:56:15 <ihope> That parser programming language thing. I think I'll call it Redivider.
20:56:45 <bsmntbombdood> make it turing complete
20:56:49 <ihope> It is.
20:57:20 * ihope sifts through pastebin.ca posts
20:58:30 <ihope> I guess this is the most recent one: http://pastebin.ca/679421
20:59:19 <ihope> Suddenly, I feel like playing a game instead. :-P
20:59:37 <bsmntbombdood> write a game in your language
21:09:36 <ihope> Hmm, yes, I could do that.
21:11:50 <ehird`> yes! do so
21:12:34 <ihope> And here, have a weird writing system: "H. M. M-y. E. S-i c. O. U. L. D d. O t. H. A. T"
21:13:13 <ihope> Sentences are concatenated, so if I wanted to say that twice for some reason, it'd be "H. M. M-y. E. S-i c. O. U. L. D d. O t. H. A. Th. M. M-y. E. S-i c. O. U. L. D d. O t. H. A. T"
21:13:27 <ehird`> what
21:13:41 <ehird`> i don't get the system behind that writing system
21:14:25 <ihope> "fo" becomes "f. o" and vice versa; "f-o" becomes "f, o" and vice versa; "f o" remains "f o".
21:14:42 <ehird`> Hm.
21:14:50 <bsmntbombdood> ?
21:14:57 <ihope> Except capitalization is correctified. :-P
21:14:57 <ehird`> What about f.o
21:15:17 <ihope> How often is that used?
21:15:38 <ehird`> "H. M. M"
21:15:42 <ehird`> oh
21:15:43 <ehird`> I see
21:15:58 <ihope> Unless you're writing numbers, which this doesn't support :-)
21:16:14 <ehird`> HMM, yES, i cOULD dO tHAT
21:16:24 <ehird`> so why did you mess up capitalization like that
21:16:48 <ihope> This way, every "sentence" has exactly one capital letter, which is at the beginning.
21:17:30 <bsmntbombdood> no me understando
21:17:50 <oerjan> J. U. S. T t. O b. E w. E. I. R. D-I a. S. S. U. M. E
21:18:07 <ihope> ("Sentence" meaning something like "S-i c.")
21:19:07 <ihope> Y. E. S-e. X. A. C. T. L. Y
21:19:45 <ihope> Maybe it should instead be "fo" <-> "f. o"; "f o" <-> "f, o".
21:20:12 <ehird`> Hello world -> H. e. l. l. oW. o. r. l. d
21:20:12 <ehird`> Nah
21:20:14 <ehird`> Not as esoteric
21:20:32 <ihope> Not "H. E. L. L. Ow. O. R. L. D"?
21:20:50 <ihope> (Hell. Ow. O RLD?)
21:21:07 <oerjan> itym "H. E. L. L. O w. O. R. L. D"
21:21:32 <bsmntbombdood> how about "hello world"?
21:21:54 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: this is #esoteric
21:26:40 <ihope> oerjan: indeed.
21:26:44 <ihope> Or ""H. E. L. L. O, w. O. R. L. D""
21:37:56 <ihope> (Modulo number of quotation marks.)
22:20:46 <bsmntbombdood> modulo MY TURTLE!
22:21:07 <oerjan> it's TURTLES all the way down, but we IGNORE them!
22:33:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:36:12 -!- immibis has joined.
22:42:55 -!- immibis has left (?).
22:52:16 <ehird`> TURTLES
22:58:52 <g4lt-sb100> tehre's a channel for that kind of talk, mister
23:01:12 <ehird`> TURTLES
23:01:51 <ihope> We's no sense-makers!
23:05:07 <ehird`> TURTLES
23:05:38 <ihope> TURTLES
23:05:43 <oerjan> SHARKS
23:05:50 <ihope> DOLPHINS
23:06:21 <oerjan> JELLYFISH
23:06:37 <bsmntbombdood> MOLLUSKS
23:07:38 <ehird`> TURTLES
23:07:54 <bsmntbombdood> repeat is fail
23:07:59 <ehird`> TURTLES
23:08:00 <ihope> Yeah, totally, dude.
23:08:54 <oerjan> VELOCIRAPTORS
23:10:43 <pikhq> There are three velociraptors in an equilateral triangle around you.
23:10:59 <bsmntbombdood> one has a wounded leg and runs slower than the others
23:11:21 <pikhq> Two can run at 30mph. One has a gimp leg, and runs at 15mph. Where should you head towards to live the longest?
23:11:58 <g4lt-sb100> up
23:12:09 <ihope> Does it depend on your speed?
23:12:26 <ihope> If I can run at c/2, just about any direction will do :-P
23:13:56 <ehird`> If you can run at c*2, that's just great since you can go and undo whatever you did to get yourself surrounded by velociraptors...
23:14:14 <pikhq> 10mph.
23:14:37 <g4lt-sb100> ihope, not only that, but relativistic mass means that the shouldr block you throw at one bewcomes MUCH more effective
23:15:06 <pikhq> Just run at a raptor if you hit c/2.
23:15:13 <ehird`> Veliocraptors run at exactly c.
23:15:18 <ehird`> So c/2 isn't good enough.
23:15:19 <ehird`> c*2, yep.
23:15:32 <pikhq> I doubt that we've got velociphotons.
23:15:54 <ehird`> Yes we have
23:15:56 * pikhq names a frequency the velociraptor frequency, where velociraptor waves are sent :p
23:15:58 <g4lt-sb100> ehird`, then your mass becomes aleph-2, easily enough to get the velociraptor out of the way
23:16:13 <ehird`> g4lt-sb100: Exactly! c*2 ftw.
23:16:23 * pikhq starts a velociraptor laser
23:16:24 <ehird`> pikhq: The slow baby velociraptors only run at c-1.
23:16:32 <ehird`> pikhq: But then they grow up to run at c.
23:16:34 <oerjan> you forgot one thing about relativistic mass.  the velociraptor _also_ increases in mass relative to you
23:16:49 <oerjan> so a collision may not be well-advised
23:17:04 <g4lt-sb100> oerjan, only up to
23:17:07 <g4lt-sb100> oerjan, only up to c
23:17:21 <ehird`> My plan:
23:17:28 <ehird`> Run a bit at c*2.
23:17:32 <oerjan> collisions at imaginary mass may not be well-understood yet
23:17:34 <ehird`> Undo whatever you did to run into the veliocraptors.
23:17:36 <ehird`> Be happy.
23:18:03 <ihope> How do the velociraptors act, exactly?
23:18:08 <ihope> Do they always run straight at you?
23:18:19 <oklopol> would be cool if c was 50 km/h
23:18:34 <oerjan> obviously, velociraptors read your mind
23:18:35 <ehird`> oklopol: c is obviously 88 mph
23:18:36 <bsmntbombdood> they always use the optimal strategy
23:18:40 <ehird`> ;)
23:18:52 <oklopol> "uh, wasted a whole evening, well, i'll just go jogging and win back the time"
23:19:13 <ehird`> hahaha
23:19:24 <oklopol> hmm, i'm pretty sure that's flawed logic somehow, but you get the joke :P
23:19:31 <ehird`> cars would own
23:19:35 <ehird`> you could arrive somewhere before you left
23:19:41 <oklopol> nah
23:19:42 <ehird`> "Hi! I'll arrive in about 5 minutes."
23:19:45 <ehird`> "Oh hi, second me!"
23:19:50 <ehird`> Second me: "I'll arrive in about 5 minutes."
23:19:54 <oklopol> that wouldn't mean you could get faster than c :|
23:19:55 <ehird`> Second me: "Oh hi, third me!"
23:19:57 <ehird`> .................................
23:20:04 <g4lt-sb100> oerjan, if velociraptors read my mind, they'd run AWAY
23:20:27 <ihope> If c were bigger, would the universe be bigger, too? :-P
23:20:37 <oerjan> g4lt-sb100: only if you are actually dangerous to them
23:21:21 <ehird`> Hmm
23:21:36 <g4lt-sb100> oerjan, does recasting one of the hannibal lechter movies with them as the victim count as dangerous?
23:21:44 <ehird`> What kind of processing power does it take to simulate a very small (therefore spherical, so there's no edges), relativistic universe?
23:21:49 <ehird`> I'd think more than we have today
23:21:58 <oerjan> g4lt-sb100: only if you can actually do it
23:22:00 <ehird`> Very small as in like I dunno, 10 miles :P
23:22:44 <oklopol> ehird`: you mean with the physical laws we have now?
23:22:51 <oklopol> or what kind of universe
23:22:53 <g4lt-sb100> or "three velociraptors, which one of my seven guns do I draw for maximum bloodshed?"
23:22:55 <ehird`> oklopol: Maybe a simplified model of them. But yeah.
23:23:04 <oklopol> depends on the simplification :)
23:23:08 <ehird`> oklopol: Basically a relativistic universe with maybe even basic quantum mechanics
23:23:15 <ehird`> 10 km wide, let's say, and spherical
23:23:17 <oklopol> 10 miles to simulate == exactly 10 miles of computer...
23:23:22 <ehird`> How much processing power?
23:23:28 <oerjan> g4lt-sb100: good you are prepared
23:24:03 <oklopol> but unless you have a god to put the particles in the initial state right, you will have to use a much bigger comp of course
23:24:22 <oerjan> i think without an actual quantum computer, simulating a quantum system is exponential
23:24:36 <g4lt-sb100> oklopol, that would just be a simple FSM-seeding program
23:24:38 <ehird`> so basically itd require a hell of a lot of cpu, right
23:24:59 <oklopol> g4lt-sb100: what?
23:25:16 <oklopol> seeding?
23:25:30 <g4lt-sb100> to seed your universe, they make seeding programs for FSMs now, one speecifically for life
23:26:10 <oklopol> by seeding, do you mean making the initial conditions?
23:26:28 <g4lt-sb100> yup
23:26:33 <oklopol> you need a god for that.
23:26:40 <oklopol> because of the measurement problem
23:26:46 <oklopol> the name of which i don't know
23:26:57 <g4lt-sb100> so it's truee, Conway is God
23:27:01 <oklopol> (can't know speed & location simultaneously)
23:27:13 <g4lt-sb100> heisenberg uncertainty
23:27:19 <Sgeo> argh
23:27:42 <oklopol> oh, haven't even heard that name
23:28:05 <g4lt-sb100> and that's only MEASURE.  however, snsitivity to initial conditions means that if you blow one placeement, you get a vastly differig universe
23:28:54 <oklopol> not necessarily, just probably :)
23:29:14 <g4lt-sb100> and I think that the metastable universes are few and far between, you'd prolly have a dead universe in minutes in most cases
23:29:15 <oklopol> (i guess probably enough to say necessarily... i'll stop cutting hairs)
23:29:33 <oklopol> well depends on the rules of the automaton...
23:30:17 <oklopol> anyways, it'd be a bit hard to simulate the universe without using itself, since we don't know what the rule is for our physical world yet
23:30:22 <oklopol> i mean
23:30:34 <oklopol> of course you'd use it for the computation, because it's all you have :P
23:30:46 <oklopol> but like, using like a computer would be impossible
23:30:50 <oklopol> because we don't know the rule
23:31:19 <oklopol> well i guess anderson knows
23:31:45 <oklopol> i'm thinking it has something to do with nullity
23:32:08 <bsmntbombdood> aaaaagh
23:32:14 <bsmntbombdood> not nullity
23:32:16 <g4lt-sb100> yes, rule 1: NULLITY DOESN'T WORK, YOU MORON
23:32:23 <bsmntbombdood> that guy's a freak
23:33:06 <oklopol> infidels
23:33:50 <g4lt-sb100> yeah, so?
23:34:16 <oklopol> do not ruin my punchlines!
23:34:34 <oklopol> quick poll: atheists raise their hands!
23:34:37 <oklopol> o/
23:34:48 <oklopol> (we have too little random polls here...)
23:34:57 * ehird` raises hand
23:35:26 <oklopol> (believers can lower their hands so we don't confuse them with idlers :))
23:36:10 * bsmntbombdood believes in the god esoteric
23:36:52 * Sgeo raises hand
23:37:39 * oklopol raises verbal hand too
23:38:13 <oklopol> gotta go do physics, god that's boring shit ->
23:40:30 * Sgeo should work on PSOX :/
23:52:11 * ihope waves