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00:57:08 <pikhq> w00ts.
00:57:56 <bsmntbombdood> what
01:12:04 <bsmntbombdood> TELL ME WHAT
01:19:44 <pikhq> Weekend.
01:21:36 <bsmntbombdood> i has 3 day weekend
01:24:35 <pikhq> As do I. :D
01:24:53 <bsmntbombdood> we should orgify with oklopol
01:26:04 <pikhq> XD
01:26:36 <bsmntbombdood> i see you've got your eye-protective squint down well
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01:37:43 <oklopol> what fun, 3:35 am, and i have to write two essays for school <3
01:38:25 <oklopol> i did get a good 7 hours sleep during the day, so i'm not tired, but it *might* be a bit more fun to use the night for coding
01:38:33 <oklopol> also, orgies are always a good idea
01:41:27 <pikhq> 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything.
01:41:29 <pikhq> (yet)
01:42:01 <oklopol> *healthy
01:42:12 <oklopol> (if you know what i'm fixing, you are a freak.)
01:42:36 <oklopol> o you lucky bastard
01:42:38 <oklopol> o
01:42:39 <oklopol> o
01:42:44 <oklopol> hmm, guess i should eat something
01:43:08 <bsmntbombdood> oh em gee pikhq has the same time as me
01:43:18 <oklopol> just did 3 math exams to compensate for my lack of attendance @ classes
01:43:32 <oklopol> hmph, why do i always get the bad times :<
01:43:35 <oklopol> foods ->
01:43:35 <bsmntbombdood> wait what?
01:43:46 <bsmntbombdood> [18:41] <pikhq> 6:24 PM, and I don't have to do anything.
01:43:54 <bsmntbombdood> your clock is seriously off mister
01:44:02 <oklopol> (03:41:26) (pikhq) 6:24 PM
01:44:07 <oklopol> time dilation
01:44:51 <oerjan> IM IN UR CLOCK, DILATING UR TIME
01:45:22 <oklopol> hmm... i should practise this leaving the computer thing.
01:45:25 <oklopol> ->
01:45:39 <oklopol> actually leaving might be good practise.
01:47:44 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: s/24/42/ ;)
01:47:55 <pikhq> Typo'd.
02:49:30 <RodgerTheGreat> howdy, folks
02:49:34 <RodgerTheGreat> what's up?
02:50:05 <oerjan> very little, apparently
02:50:44 * Sgeo hasn't been working on PSOX
02:50:45 <Sgeo> :(
02:52:59 <bsmntbombdood> my nipples!!
02:53:09 <oerjan> o_O
03:18:44 <oklopol> yay done
03:19:27 <oklopol> 3 math exams, and 2 essays, and i still have time to spare!
03:20:04 <oklopol> (i guess one of my essays was 25% the requested length though...)
03:20:51 <oklopol> my black nipple hair is only 2cm now, it was like 8, but it got ripped off :<<
03:21:06 <lament> TMI?
03:21:07 <oklopol> (just a single hair, i'm a freak)
03:21:08 <bsmntbombdood> oh boy
03:21:42 <oklopol> you know an essay is good when you end it in "bukkake"
03:21:49 <bsmntbombdood> indeed
03:22:25 <oklopol> hmm, alright, i was supposed to eat something...
03:22:29 <oklopol> now, perhaps ->
03:23:51 <oklopol> hmm, perhaps i should attach a bukkake link or something, the teacher might not know what it is
03:24:09 <lament> 'a picture is worth a thousand words'
03:24:56 <oklopol> indeed, i'll just print out an example
03:25:44 <oklopol> actually, i'm not sure if she'll read it, the course is just passed or failed, no grade
03:25:46 <lament> don't print, show her
03:25:52 <oklopol> so... why would she bother
03:26:01 <oklopol> that sounds good too
03:26:22 <oklopol> i'll need more sperm doners though, or it's not really bukkake :|
03:26:25 <oklopol> "doner"
03:26:26 <oklopol> hmm
03:26:41 <oklopol> i wonder how that's spelled
03:27:09 <oklopol> donor
03:27:10 <oklopol> ah
03:27:16 <bsmntbombdood> you know what they say...a demonstration is worth 1000 pictures
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04:52:14 <GregorR> GCC-MISC. Stupid idea? Or BRILLIANT SCHEME?
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04:58:46 <pikhq> Brilliant.
05:03:09 <pikhq> Now, I want a Turing machine implemented in Magic: The Gathering.
05:03:15 <pikhq> All in favor?
05:07:18 <oklopol> old, but interesting
05:08:15 <pikhq> If done right?
05:08:36 <pikhq> As in "within the rules of Magic"?
05:08:41 <oklopol> yes
05:08:50 <pikhq> But has it been done?
05:08:56 <pikhq> (if so, that kicks ass)
05:09:04 <pikhq> (and I want to play that deck)
05:09:31 <oklopol> hmm hmm, there was something similar in the wiki, but it was just an idea, i think
05:10:19 <oklopol> there are some 50000 iirc in magic the gathering, and at least a few infinite loops have been implemented, so you can prolly do some computation :P
05:10:37 <pikhq> :D
05:10:48 <oklopol> i know a guy who's in the finnish top10
05:11:02 <oklopol> and all my friends are all-around geeks
05:17:16 <oklopol> were you thinking like, first X cards to initialize, then Y cards to represent the actual program?
05:18:14 <pikhq> Possible.
05:18:21 <oklopol> if the execution was to deterministic, you should really choose the initialization cards wisely, since it's usually actually *played*
05:18:24 <oklopol> *is
05:18:34 <pikhq> What'd matter is if it's possible to do via the effects of cards.
05:19:10 <pikhq> Perhaps have the program cards be ones with effects that can let you pull cards from the library to your hand, so that you can actually initialise.
05:19:55 <oklopol> hmm, but you mean the player would need to be a part of the program? that would make it 1) less cool 2) more possible
05:23:05 <pikhq> The player would need to at least start the program.
05:23:32 <pikhq> Consider it like toggling bits on a PDP to get the bootloader in place.
05:25:56 <oklopol> hmm... PDP? :|
05:26:53 <oklopol> but anyways, the problem with effects is there aren't many fully automatic effects, most require the player to make choises after playing the card
05:27:50 <pikhq> For the sake of sanity, I will assume non-tournament-legal cards may be played. . .
05:28:24 <pikhq> Allowing you to use the Mox Lotus to make land a non-issue.
05:34:22 <pikhq> Any ideas?
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06:00:12 <bsmntbom1dood> no, hamlet allusions aren't totally lame
06:02:38 <bsmntbom1dood> It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness,
06:02:39 <bsmntbom1dood> it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair,
06:02:41 <bsmntbom1dood> we had everything before us, we had nothing before us
06:02:44 <bsmntbom1dood> etc...
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06:03:16 <GregorR> ... a Hamlet of Two Cities?
06:04:14 <bsmntbombdood> more like a Cliche of Two shitty stories
06:12:27 <galt> a tale of two places that are about to host walmarts
06:14:10 <GregorR> There are two cities without wal-marts?
06:14:59 <GregorR> I thought even Amishville Pennsylvania had a Wal-Mart, although it's a Wall's Marte there.
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06:32:36 <GregorR> Either I'm not very good at decoding Unicode, or my offset-based encoding concept isn't very good :P
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13:05:42 <SimonRC> How can MTG do any computation?
13:40:19 <ehird`> wow, the guy who founded Y Combinator with PG wrote the Morris worm and founded Viaweb
13:40:21 <ehird`> i didn't know  that.
13:43:42 <oklopol> exciting life
13:43:57 <ehird`> inded
13:44:00 <ehird`> *indeed
13:44:00 <ehird`> :P
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16:53:02 <fax> hello
16:57:57 <fax> I'm gonna run a contest for brainfuck
16:58:03 <ehird`> hm
16:58:04 <ehird`> what type
16:58:11 <fax> Write a program which given some string of text outputs a brainfuck program which prints that text. The aim is to produce as small a brainfuck program as you can.
16:58:19 <ehird`> already been done
16:58:31 <fax> but.. It can't be done
16:58:36 <ehird`> yes it can
16:58:39 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: egobot's algorithm is shit
16:58:39 <ehird`> it's been done as a competition before
16:58:43 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: no
16:58:44 <fax> ohh
16:58:46 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: the competition
16:58:51 <bsmntbombdood> orly?
16:58:55 <ehird`> yes
16:58:55 <ehird`> wait
16:58:59 <fax> Where are the results?
16:59:08 <fax> I'll still try
16:59:12 <ehird`> http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/results0.txt
16:59:21 <ehird`> admittedly, the output size is shit
16:59:28 <ehird`> but, a competition for those programs has been done
16:59:39 <fax> oh
16:59:42 <bsmntbombdood> oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible
16:59:48 <fax> bsmntbombdood: Yes
17:00:04 <fax> ehird`: You won't have to use brainfuck do it though
17:00:07 <ehird`> oh
17:02:37 <fax> bsmntbombdood: How do you know that actually
17:02:46 <bsmntbombdood> kolgomorov complexity
17:02:53 <fax> ah o k
17:03:07 <fax> I assumed it based on chaitins stuff
17:03:17 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood used ACADEMIC TERMS. Critical hit! Enemy fax fainte.d
17:03:23 <fax> hahaha
17:05:32 <bsmntbombdood> make brainfuck without the ugly nesting []
17:05:39 <bsmntbombdood> so that any string is valid
17:06:02 <ehird`> hah
17:07:16 <fax> hmpf
17:07:19 <fax> +[>.+<] Real random byte generator.
17:07:23 <fax> no it's not :/
17:07:47 <ehird`> that's not random :P
17:09:47 * SimonRC goes shopping
17:17:35 <bsmntbombdood> haha shopping?
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17:49:08 <bsmntbombdood> how were the strings on the brainfuck constants wiki page generated?
17:50:33 <oerjan> for the wrapping ones, someone wrote a search program i think
17:51:00 <oerjan> the non-wrapping ones are a bit hodge-podge
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18:31:52 <oerjan> :t (//)
18:31:59 <oerjan> argh
18:32:32 <bsmntbombdood> prefix integer-divide?
18:32:55 <oerjan> some array operator, apparently
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19:05:48 <fax> ok
19:05:49 <fax> http://rafb.net/p/tEDLkD38.txt
19:05:57 <fax> This is it
19:06:20 <ehird`> > would be faster than [-]
19:06:26 <fax> Uses linear memory though
19:06:33 <fax> instead of constant
19:06:44 <fax> not that it matters :p
19:07:15 <fax> > is better than [-] though
19:07:17 <fax> because it's shorter
19:09:43 <bsmntbombdood> TRICKY TRICKY
19:09:45 <bsmntbombdood> OOPS
19:09:59 <fax> hehe
19:10:59 <bsmntbombdood> use the FLAC algorithm
19:11:05 <ehird`> haha
19:11:11 <ehird`> flac is for audio data, no?
19:11:19 <fax> It is lossless
19:11:28 <fax> no way can I implement flac in bf though :/
19:11:35 <bsmntbombdood> it's easy actually
19:11:37 <ehird`> flac in bf would be ridiculous
19:11:42 <ehird`> flac is a very complex algorithm
19:11:46 <ehird`> with a huge C implementation
19:11:49 <bsmntbombdood> no it's not...
19:11:56 <ehird`> maybe we are talking about a different flac.
19:12:03 <ehird`> http://flac.sourceforge.net/
19:12:11 <oklopol> (bsmntbombdood) oh, and fax, proving the output is the best possible is impossible <<< it's definately possible for any distinct string, just not the general case
19:12:19 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: huh?
19:12:36 <fax> oklopol: Really?
19:12:40 <oerjan> oklopol: incorrect
19:12:41 <fax> how can you
19:12:51 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: given a program to generate a string, it's not possible to prove there's none shorter
19:13:03 <oklopol> really? :|
19:13:13 <fax> Sometimes it is possible to prove it
19:13:21 <oklopol> ah
19:13:22 <oklopol> sorry
19:13:25 <fax> It might be impossible to prove it in another case though won't it?
19:13:38 <oklopol> i always fail at this ;) anyways, it's *sometimes* possible
19:13:48 <bsmntbombdood> is it?
19:13:48 <oerjan> it will be impossible in some cases
19:13:58 <fax> oklopol: YOu might like http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/unknowable/
19:14:03 <fax> he talks about this
19:14:26 <oklopol> i've read it all
19:14:31 <oklopol> it's just i'm pretty dumb
19:14:32 <fax> ah ok
19:15:30 <bsmntbombdood> oklopol: we should invite fax to our orgy
19:15:40 <fax> That is a good idea
19:15:41 <oklopol> indeed
19:15:44 <oklopol> :O
19:15:50 <fax> :O
19:15:50 <oklopol> ASL!?!
19:15:55 <fax> I thought you said the other thing
19:15:59 <fax> fax: we should invite oklopol
19:16:13 <ehird`> did someone say orgy?
19:16:15 <ehird`> i mean, uh
19:16:16 <ehird`> nevermind
19:16:41 <oklopol> have you and bsmntbombdood planned to have an orgy too, fax :P
19:16:54 <oklopol> hmm, i gotta go listen to deathchain soon
19:17:02 <oklopol> my first time in a finnish bar :P
19:17:10 <oklopol> and i'm like 18.6
19:17:22 <bsmntbombdood> what's the drinking age, 18?
19:17:25 <oklopol> yep
19:17:28 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: 18.3
19:17:36 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: what?
19:17:43 <oklopol> i've been in many german bars though, don't know if that's the same thing
19:17:47 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: just a joke in reference to oklopol's 18.6
19:18:31 <bsmntbombdood> me oklopol and fax are like 5000s of miles away
19:18:53 <fax> if you want to have an orgy I can bring some guy
19:18:55 <fax> lol
19:19:15 <oklopol> fax: do you happen to be a woman?
19:20:36 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
19:20:36 <oklopol> hmm... got my synth here, i should make my own version of http://www.mikseri.net/artists/speedpianosoolo.23659.php
19:20:52 <bsmntbombdood> sweden and finland together look like a flaccid cock and balls
19:21:02 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: we needed to know this.
19:21:06 <oklopol> the keys have a pretty orgastic feel to them
19:21:19 <oklopol> yes, you should see the euro coin without norway and russia...
19:21:26 <oklopol> it's a fucking penis :P
19:21:36 <ehird`> we also needed to know this
19:22:52 <oklopol> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:2euro1-dick.jpg
19:23:14 <oklopol> that's a bit deformed, actually, but the real one is almost as dicky
19:23:30 <bsmntbombdood> haha
19:23:36 <bsmntbombdood> exactly
19:23:48 <ehird`> is there a list of all known Brainfuck->c optimizations?
19:23:54 <ehird`> i wonder if some of my ideas have already been done
19:25:02 <bsmntbombdood> "all known"
19:25:19 <ehird`> "what about it"
19:25:36 <bsmntbombdood> that's a dumb question
19:25:40 <ehird`> why
19:26:20 <oklopol> oh my god speed piano soolo is great
19:26:25 <oklopol> are you listening yet?
19:26:28 <oklopol> ARE YOU?`
19:26:48 <bsmntbombdood> i'd rather be fucking
19:26:50 <bsmntbombdood> er, sailing
19:26:59 <ehird`> the keys are like right next to each other
19:27:36 <bsmntbombdood> THE SLIP WAS RATHER FRUEDIAN
19:28:10 <oklopol> frue-indeed-dian.
19:28:22 <fax> hm
19:28:27 <oklopol> ehird`: what keys?
19:28:31 <oklopol> 10 minutes
19:28:37 <oklopol> oh my god, there's gonna be people there
19:28:45 <oklopol> i'm gonna die.
19:28:46 <ehird`> oklopol: it's a bash quote reference
19:29:17 <oklopol> oh, heh, i naturally assumed you were referring to speed piano soolo! :)
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19:52:48 <fax> hm
19:52:55 <fax> Do you think huffman would be really hard?
19:53:10 <fax> in brainfuck
19:53:12 <GregorR> [speaking of Freudian...]
19:53:19 <GregorR> fax: Probably. No bitwise ops.
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19:58:47 <fax> hm :/
19:58:56 <fax> I need more peopel to enter this because I'm out of god ideas
19:59:33 <Cesque> god?
19:59:38 <fax> good
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20:22:58 * GregorR implements a god in BF.
20:26:28 <fax> hm
20:26:51 <fax> Isn't there some list of brainfuck programs which have been shown to be the smallest
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20:37:09 <fax> !bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<.
20:37:12 <EgoBot> ?
20:37:12 <fax> .bf >+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<.
20:37:15 <fax> ah: D
20:37:55 <fax> !bf +>>++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<<[>.+.++++++++++++++.++.>+++++++[<------------>-]<-.>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]<--<]
20:38:03 <GregorR> Heh, for a second I thought you'd confused EgoBot X-D
20:38:09 <fax> lol
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21:23:56 <EgoBot> desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu d
21:24:07 <ehird`> er
21:24:10 <ehird`> who hacked egobot
21:24:25 * fax giggles
21:25:35 <GregorR> !ps -d
21:25:39 <EgoBot> 1 ais523: daemon ul bf
21:25:41 <EgoBot> 2 GregorR: ps
21:25:49 <GregorR> See the daemon :P
21:25:53 <ehird`> ah
21:25:54 <ehird`> what does it do
21:25:58 <ehird`> :P
21:27:31 <GregorR> I suspect that lets you run unlambda code, but daemons have the interesting property that no matter how you get the message to EgoBot, it responds in the channel the daemon was started in.
21:27:51 <ehird`> so someone wrote an unlambda program to repeat desu?
21:27:54 <ehird`> must be pretty bored.
21:30:38 <fax> unlambda program to repeat desu in < 512 chars?
21:30:42 <fax> I don't think that is possible
21:30:50 <ehird`> indeed.
21:31:28 <GregorR> Alternatively, a program that was running to produce that just took a very long time before dying *shrugs*
21:31:47 <fax> yes desu | tr '\n' ' '
21:32:09 <ehird`> heh
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22:25:30 <bsmntbombdood> !help
22:25:33 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
22:25:35 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
22:25:52 <ehird`> !qbf CAT
22:25:58 <ehird`> !qbf CAT: ALIVE OR DEAD?
22:26:00 <ehird`> hmph
22:26:00 <bsmntbombdood> !bf_txtgen Hello, Brainfuck. I like cheesy-potatoes.
22:26:01 <ehird`> useless
22:26:15 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Hello, brainfuck. I like huge text generation code that lags the bot.
22:29:21 <EgoBot> 597 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++>+++>++<<<<-]>>---.<----.+++++++..+++.>>-.>++.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<+++.>-.++++++++.+++++.<------------.>+++++++.<---.>----------.>++.>.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>.<<+.---.++.------.>>.<<+++.+++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--.>.<<-.>.<++++.----.>>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<.
22:29:31 <EgoBot> 438 ++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>++++++++>++++<<<<-]>.>>+++++.<..+++.>>----.------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<+++.>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++.<+++++++++.>---.<<+++.------------------.>---.<-----------------------------------------------------.--------------.<+.>.>+.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++.------.>.<--.+++++.---..++++++++++++++.+++++
22:30:00 <fax> 1093 chars :/
22:30:08 <fax> for "Hello, brainfuck. I like huge text generation code that lags the bot."
22:31:30 <bsmntbombdood> fax: huh?
22:31:35 <bsmntbombdood> fax: yours does better
22:32:57 <fax> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8433/picture1uu7.png
22:33:05 <fax> er
22:33:37 <ehird`> you wrote that desu thing!
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22:34:52 <bsmntbombdood> oh hmm
22:43:10 <Tritonio> hello
22:43:17 <fax> Hi
22:43:20 <Tritonio> is there any way to make a "double" pipe?
22:43:25 <bsmntbombdood> ?
22:43:34 <Tritonio> stin to stout of another program and vice versa.
22:43:35 <fax> !bf_txtgen Hello, Brainfuck!
22:43:54 <bsmntbombdood> maybe with a fifo
22:44:00 <GregorR> Tritonio: If only there was in the shell :(
22:44:03 <Tritonio> fifo?
22:44:17 <GregorR> Tritonio: It can be done, of course, but there's no command-line way of doing it except for third-party apps e.g. twinpipe.
22:44:25 <fax> grr
22:44:27 <bsmntbombdood> like mkfifo foo; proga < foo | progb > foo
22:44:29 <fax> twinpipe exists
22:44:29 <EgoBot> 154 ++++++++++++[>++++++>++++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]>.>>+++++.>..+++.<<----.------------.<------.>>>+++.<----.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.<+. [500]
22:44:33 * fax puts down his C editor
22:44:34 <Tritonio> hmmmm... i'll try twinpipe
22:44:41 <GregorR> fax: Hahahah
22:44:55 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood's method is more general but involves more typing and cleaning up :)
22:45:07 <fax> Argh!
22:45:11 <fax> EgoBot is better than my code
22:45:20 <GregorR> Pff, not possible.
22:45:24 <GregorR> EgoBot is a horrendous mess.
22:45:36 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: he's talking about the bf_txtgen size
22:45:42 <fax> Ooh
22:45:43 <fax> this stuff
22:45:44 <fax> [>++++++>++++>++++++++>+++++++++<<<<-]
22:45:49 <GregorR> Oh - well then that's calamari's text generator that's better, not EgoBot :P
22:45:50 <fax> This is clever
22:45:56 <GregorR> EgoBot only knows how to call other programs :)
22:46:16 <bsmntbombdood> fax: it's not algorithmic though
22:46:18 <bsmntbombdood> it's genetic
22:46:25 <fax> ohhh
22:46:31 <bsmntbombdood> and written in java
22:46:33 <fax> I saw a java one which worked that way
22:46:41 <fax> ok :|
22:46:51 <fax> Maybe algorithms is the wrong approach
22:46:58 <fax> I will continue anyway
22:47:00 <Tritonio> GregorR, what do you mean that it need's more cleanup?
22:47:09 <Tritonio> needs*
22:47:11 <bsmntbombdood> normal compressors are algorithmic
22:47:21 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: you have to finish with removing the fifo
22:47:30 <GregorR> fax: That's the one EgoBot uses.
22:48:12 <Tritonio> ok thanx! :-)
23:00:15 <pikhq> GregorR: You think maybe someone should redo EgoBot?
23:00:52 <GregorR> I wouldn't complain so long as it maintained the ability to drop in external interpreters *shrugs*
23:03:07 <pikhq> I'm assuming that it'd just run through a config file specifying which external interpreters are available, how to call them, and what name to expose to the IRC channel.
23:03:56 <GregorR> That'd be pretty.
23:04:40 <fax> What language[s] will you write EgoBot in?
23:07:09 <ehird`> i will redo egobot, i guess
23:07:13 <ehird`> kajirbot was posed as a replacement for it
23:07:16 <ehird`> but development stagnated
23:07:21 <ehird`> i could pick it up again and rename it if anyone wanted
23:08:16 <fax> Please rename it
23:08:26 <ehird`> what do you mean?
23:08:29 <ehird`> i meant rename it to Egobot
23:08:33 <fax> oh
23:08:34 <fax> ok
23:09:43 <bsmntbombdood> fax: scheme!
23:09:44 <bsmntbombdood> or C
23:09:50 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
23:09:59 <fax> what
23:10:01 <fax> like actually
23:10:02 <fax> ?
23:10:57 <bsmntbombdood> what?
23:11:00 <bsmntbombdood> yeah...
23:12:38 <GregorR> Don't name it EgoBot :(
23:12:49 <bsmntbombdood> i've never done anything like that in scheme, might be fun
23:12:49 <ehird`> i was just replying to
23:12:50 <ehird`> (11:10:03 PM) pikhq: GregorR: You think maybe someone should redo EgoBot?
23:12:51 <GregorR> You can make an EgoBot replacement, sure, but Ego* things are usually mine.
23:12:55 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: of course
23:13:13 <GregorR> ehird`: Redo != Reimplement precisely down to the name.
23:13:32 <ehird`> GregorR: I interpreted redo = reimplement
23:13:43 <bsmntbombdood> C might be a better language though
23:13:47 <GregorR> ehird`: Reimplement != Reimplemement and give it the same name
23:13:49 <fax> bsmntbombdood: No!
23:13:51 <ehird`> GregorR: :P
23:14:00 <ehird`> I would probably go for scheme, myself.
23:14:01 <bsmntbombdood> fax: why not?
23:14:04 <GregorR> ehird`: jikes is a reimplementation of javac, but it's not called javac.
23:14:05 <fax> because it's C
23:14:31 <ehird`> The bot does not need to do much, it just needs to communicate with IRC, have some basic commands for controlling subprocesses and run some external programs
23:14:31 * GregorR <3 D
23:14:42 <bsmntbombdood> fax: C is a good language
23:14:46 <fax> I would write it in sh
23:14:49 <ehird`> C, in this case, is completely useless and will just add lots of stupid mallocs() etc that are really not needed
23:15:04 <fax> bsmntbombdood: No not really
23:15:13 <bsmntbombdood> yes it is
23:15:18 <bsmntbombdood> i love C
23:15:19 <fax> bsmntbombdood: It's fine but it's ruining too many peoples potential
23:15:36 <bsmntbombdood> uhh...i don't give a shit how other people us it
23:15:40 <fax> bsmntbombdood: no I like C and I like writing C but I hate what it does to other people
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23:19:53 <ehird`> kajirbot isn't catchy enough for a name
23:19:53 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: ditto
23:20:03 <ehird`> i think everyone thinks that
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23:20:54 <ehird`> you know what would be cool
23:20:57 <ehird`> a public irc logging service
23:21:22 <ehird`> you'd go and register the channel on its site/some bot, it'd verify you owned it, then put a logging bot in there and expose a web interface
23:21:31 <bsmntbombdood> there is...
23:21:33 <fax> :/
23:21:35 <RodgerTheGreat> fun stuff
23:21:42 <bsmntbombdood> ircbrowse
23:21:43 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: with public registration?
23:21:50 <ehird`> ircbrowse doesn't let anyone automatically register their channel
23:21:51 <bsmntbombdood> yep
23:21:56 <bsmntbombdood> yeah they do
23:22:05 <ehird`> link to register page?
23:23:09 <bsmntbombdood> you send the guy an email
23:23:18 <ehird`> and he manually does it?
23:23:18 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood'
23:23:26 <ehird`> so is that "automatically"?
23:23:27 <ehird`> no.
23:23:28 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood's definition of "automatic" isn't quite "automatic"
23:23:28 <pikhq> ehird`: Who needs malloc?
23:23:39 <pikhq> Just use GNU C's variable-sized arrays. ;)
23:23:39 <ehird`> GregorR: ;)
23:23:48 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: eeew no
23:23:57 <GregorR> Just use D's dynamic arrays.
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23:24:06 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: that's not C
23:24:07 <ehird`> pikhq: Right now there is the very essence of sorrow and dispair ripping open your body.
23:24:10 <ehird`> pikhq: I hope you enjoy it.
23:24:11 <pikhq> Well, fine. If you need it to work after a function *returns*, you'd need to malloc. . .
23:24:34 <pikhq> What's *wrong* with int array[size_here];?
23:24:43 <fax> pikhq: ... lol
23:24:52 <GregorR> pikhq: int[size_here] array; // is better :P
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23:25:00 <ehird`> pikhq: i guess you never, oh, get keyboard input or anything.
23:25:00 <pikhq> Portability issues aside.
23:25:16 <pikhq> ehird`: There's a good time for malloc. . .
23:25:21 <fax> like
23:25:21 <bsmntbom1dood> at/nick bsmntbombdood
23:25:24 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood.
23:25:26 <fax> You don't write an IRC bot in C
23:25:28 <fax> lol
23:25:33 <pikhq> Although getline is a good deal simpler to deal with.
23:25:34 <ehird`> exactly
23:25:36 <fax> (I know.. I have but it was stupid)
23:25:46 <ehird`> scheme would win at this
23:25:47 <GregorR> EgoBot is in C++ >_>
23:25:52 <fax> That's even worse :|
23:25:55 <ehird`> GregorR: Die :|
23:25:57 <bsmntbombdood> eeeeeeew
23:26:02 <bsmntbombdood> indeed
23:26:02 * GregorR <3 C++ ... with the hatred :P
23:26:09 * pikhq likes C *with GNU extensions*. . .
23:26:15 * GregorR likes D.
23:26:33 * fax prefers Prolog
23:26:43 * pikhq hasn't done D
23:26:44 <fax> pikhq: Do you use case 'a'..'z' : ?
23:26:46 <GregorR> fax: I have to assume that's a joke :P
23:26:58 <Tritonio> hmm. should this: nc -l -p 23291 -vv | lua
23:26:59 <pikhq> fax: It makes a small handful of things easier.
23:27:07 <fax> I h8 your C code
23:27:08 <fax> so much!
23:27:09 <Tritonio> redirect the stdout of nc to lua?
23:27:11 <pikhq> Although the proper syntax is "case 'a'...'z':"
23:27:29 <GregorR> Tritonio: Uhhh, yes ... won't lua take a program by default, so that'll just accept any ol' program from a TCP port?
23:27:46 <Tritonio> shouldn't it?
23:27:54 <Tritonio> but i still cannot run anything
23:27:55 <GregorR> Tritonio: Yes, but that's a terrible idea :P
23:27:59 <Tritonio> i know
23:28:01 <fax> I guess
23:28:01 <fax> echo "1 + 1;" | lua
23:28:03 <fax> would have to work
23:28:05 <pikhq> fax: . . . Because if(c > 'a' && c < 'z') is simpler to read?
23:28:09 <bsmntbombdood> lua probably needs an argument to read from stding
23:28:09 <fax> eek
23:28:13 * fax forgot lua
23:28:24 <fax> pikhq: Because something written in the appropriate language is easier to read!
23:28:38 <pikhq> ...
23:28:49 <ehird`> maybe i should write the bot in syntaxless!
23:28:53 <ehird`> god, that'd be so ugly
23:28:58 <pikhq> So, you're not arguing that using that is bad C style, but that using C is itself bad.
23:29:04 <ehird`> even i know stack-based languages are not really that usable :P
23:29:19 <bsmntbombdood> did anyone see my request for a syntaxless brainfuck?
23:29:26 <bsmntbombdood> i wonder how to do that
23:29:32 <GregorR> ehird`: Stack-based languages are excellent target languages.
23:29:46 <GregorR> ehird`: That is, it's much easier for a computer to write code for a stack-based language than for a human.
23:29:53 <ehird`> GregorR: Sure, sure. But not for writing an IRC bot ;)
23:29:58 <GregorR> Heh
23:30:00 <ehird`> Especially how primitive my language is.
23:30:14 <GregorR> Sorry, had to defend it since Plof3's internal language is a stacklang :P
23:30:16 <ehird`> [ code ] ' func bind <-- function definition
23:30:16 <pikhq> Fucking brilliant. . .
23:30:19 <ehird`> :P
23:30:29 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: just use dc instead
23:30:35 <pikhq> By the time that the latest anti-Linux patent case is even getting *heard*, the patent will have expired.
23:30:55 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: EgoBot uses netcat piped in or something right?
23:30:56 <ehird`> isn't that good?
23:31:06 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Yup.
23:31:10 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Major cheatzering.
23:31:20 <bsmntbombdood> what exactly is the command?
23:31:33 <GregorR> netcat -e ./egobotIRC
23:31:40 <ehird`> wow that's evil
23:31:40 <ehird`> :)
23:31:45 <ehird`> however netcat is kinda fun
23:31:46 <ehird`> but
23:31:46 <ehird`> evil
23:31:55 <GregorR> I didn't want to deal with sockets in C++ ^^
23:32:05 <bsmntbombdood> oh, i didn't know netcat could do that
23:32:12 <bsmntbombdood> and C sockets are easy to deal with...
23:32:15 <fax> bsmntbombdood: You have to compile with -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE
23:32:25 <ehird`> actually
23:32:29 <ehird`> netcat like that is kind of cool
23:32:31 <bsmntbombdood> fax: it's not a gaping security hole...
23:32:32 <fax> though writing nc -e is a one liner in perl :)
23:32:32 <ehird`> in that you can run simulated runs
23:32:35 <fax> bsmntbombdood: It is
23:32:36 <ehird`> by writing a fake file
23:32:38 <fax> bsmntbombdood: well
23:32:39 <ehird`> and piping it in
23:32:44 <fax> bsmntbombdood: It's part of a gaping security hoe
23:32:54 <bsmntbombdood> fax: it's just as a security hole as using sockets...
23:33:02 <fax> bsmntbombdood: if you have perl with the net module you can implement nc -e anyway
23:33:04 <GregorR> Heheheh
23:33:05 <ehird`> i wonder if anyone wrote a (netcat func) function for scheme ;)
23:33:07 <GregorR> Gaping security hoe.
23:33:15 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: yes
23:33:26 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: lol!
23:33:32 <ehird`> (netcat (lambda (n) ...)) ; n is some kind of stream, or line, or whatever.
23:33:49 <bsmntbombdood> call-with-tcp-socket
23:33:55 <ehird`> right
23:33:58 <ehird`> but that passes a socket
23:34:00 <ehird`> not the input
23:34:03 <ehird`> thus, not like netcat
23:34:06 <Tritonio> i still have problems.... lua | nc -l -p 23291 -vv works as it should.
23:34:11 <bsmntbombdood> wrong, it passes a stream
23:34:23 <ehird`> well, yeah
23:34:27 <ehird`> but its still just normal tcp-ness
23:34:31 <ehird`> it's not as simple as netcat
23:34:36 <Tritonio> but this: nc -l -p 23291 -vv | lua doesn't work...
23:34:37 <bsmntbombdood> wrong...
23:34:46 <ehird`> ok, show me some example call-with-tcp-socket code
23:34:47 <bsmntbombdood> you still have to read from a file with netcat -e
23:34:56 <bsmntbombdood> which is the same as reading from a stream
23:36:02 <GregorR> Tritonio: lua might want to read until EOF, in this case closing the socket.
23:36:26 <ehird`> how is netcat not secure, anyway?
23:36:28 <ehird`> i never really understood that
23:36:40 <fax> you can exec it from php
23:36:46 <fax> beam a shell back..
23:36:49 <Tritonio> ehird`, there a tool called cryptcat i think
23:36:50 <fax> pretty easy
23:37:03 <ehird`> fax: isn't that just a system configuration problem
23:37:11 <Tritonio> like nc but with with twofish encryption... (or blowfish?)
23:37:12 <fax> ehird`: It's one of many problems
23:37:16 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: you just use (read-char stream) and (write-char stream)
23:37:17 <GregorR> fax: That's not an insecurity in netcat, that's an insecurity in whatever PHP script you're exploiting.
23:37:19 <bsmntbombdood> not hard at all
23:37:25 <fax> GregorR: Yes
23:37:34 <ehird`> exactly
23:37:35 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: no point
23:37:40 <bsmntbombdood> Tritonio: just use ssh instead
23:37:50 <fax> um
23:37:50 <ehird`> just ./netcat -e MyIRCBot should have 0 security flaws, right?
23:37:59 <fax> I wasn't joking btw
23:38:10 <fax> -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE is an -actual- build flag you can pass
23:38:12 <Tritonio> GregorR, you must be right... i hope there is some switch to change that behavior in lua
23:38:19 <GregorR> ehird`: It has $NUMBER_OF_FLAWS_IN_MyIRCBot
23:38:22 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: unless MyIRCBot has execing-from-stdin
23:38:31 <fax> I wasn't like suggesting it was insecure.. I'm just saying you need that build to use -e
23:38:33 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: then it'd be a retarded program
23:38:45 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: or buffer overflow etc
23:38:48 <ehird`> GregorR: you'd have $NUMBER_OF_FLAWS_IN_MyIRCBot even without netcat.
23:38:54 <ehird`> so netcat isn't the problem here, it's the program
23:38:55 <GregorR> ehird`: Yup.
23:38:56 <ehird`> so - netcat is fine?
23:38:57 <GregorR> Yup
23:39:04 <ehird`> then phooey to everyone paranoid about it
23:39:10 <fax> I wasn't paranoid about it
23:39:13 <fax> It's a joke in the source code..
23:39:23 <fax> like I said I didn't make it up
23:39:32 <ehird`> oh, wait
23:39:32 <fax> http://technopedia.info/tech/2006/02/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-netcat.html
23:39:34 <ehird`> it's a real define?
23:39:35 <ehird`> crazy!
23:39:38 <fax> Look at the makefile
23:39:56 <ehird`> hmm
23:40:01 <ehird`> netcat -e seems to just be inetd, then
23:40:07 <ehird`> so why not use inetd i must wonder =)
23:40:09 <bsmntbombdood> everbody run netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh
23:40:16 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: no :P
23:41:02 * GregorR does it.
23:41:07 <GregorR> KAY NOW WUT
23:41:08 <ehird`> (what is the difference between netcat -e and inetd?)
23:41:31 <GregorR> ehird`: netcat -e is one-time, inetd is persistent, opens multiple sockets as-necessary, etc?
23:41:40 <ehird`> hm, ok
23:41:54 <ehird`> inetd probably better then
23:41:56 * pikhq runs sudo chroot su unprivileged netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh
23:42:06 <GregorR> ehird`: inetd is better if you're making a server, certainly
23:42:15 <pikhq> netcat -e is more of a client. . .
23:42:19 <GregorR> Yuh
23:42:20 * ehird` runs just plain sudo netcat -l 12345 -e /bin/sh
23:42:23 <fax> nc -lvp
23:42:32 <pikhq> Or a server for which you want only one instance. Ever.
23:42:32 <ehird`> GregorR: an irc bot is simultaneously a server and client :)
23:42:33 <bsmntbombdood> pikhq: IT"S NOT WORKING
23:42:38 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: ;p
23:42:56 <GregorR> ehird`: It's a server in the touchy-feely human sense, but it's only a client in the networking sense.
23:43:18 <GregorR> In the same way that the X11 server is, in fact, a server, despite stupid people complaining about it :P
23:43:37 <ehird`> x11 is fundamentally broken, never use it as an example :P
23:43:44 * GregorR <3 X11
23:43:46 <bsmntbombdood> how is an x11 server a server
23:43:56 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: it runs on your machine and serves a networking server
23:44:00 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: It listens on a socket for connections.
23:44:04 <ehird`> it just so happens you connect to it locally most of the time
23:44:13 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
23:44:17 <GregorR> bsmntbombdood: Also, it provides the service of a framebuffer to clients that want it *shrugs*
23:44:20 <fax> GregorR: No I love Prolog!
23:44:28 <GregorR> fax: I love delays.
23:44:31 <fax> GregorR: swipl has a x interface
23:44:33 <fax> GregorR:  ;D
23:44:39 <fax> GregorR: They even implement an Emacs in Prolog
23:45:00 <ehird`> prolog is interesting academically
23:45:01 <GregorR> fax: wow liek it mst b good than lawl!
23:45:02 <ehird`> not practically
23:45:08 <bsmntbombdood> [GregorR][rdPrdx]dx
23:45:09 <fax> lol
23:45:18 <fax> ehird`: Rubbish!
23:45:24 <ehird`> also having an emacs written in it is one of the main reasons not to use a language ;)
23:45:37 <fax> hmf
23:45:42 <fax> Emacs dislikers!
23:45:43 <ehird`> Heck, it's permanently damaged Lisp's reputation!
23:45:48 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: of course. that means doen't use C or lisp.
23:46:08 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: one of the main reasons not to
23:46:10 <ehird`> not the single reason
23:46:15 <fax> ....lol
23:46:20 <GregorR> fax: Besides, I'm sure they didn't implement EMACS the OS, just a small subset of the default text editor for EMACS.
23:46:27 <ehird`> haha
23:46:51 <GregorR> When you replace the text editor, it's really a fairly-decent VM-based OS *shrugs*
23:46:53 <ehird`> i've actually seen people in #emacs call emacs an OS
23:46:57 <ehird`> and sincerely!
23:46:59 <ehird`> like it's a >positive<!
23:47:01 <GregorR> That's because it /is/ an OS.
23:47:03 <bsmntbombdood> so?
23:47:03 <fax> I use Emacs as an OS
23:47:04 <ehird`> soon the homepage will say that, i guess
23:47:07 <fax> seriously
23:47:14 <ehird`> fax: lots of people do
23:47:20 <fax> When I have to use these computers in the lab I just run emacs fullscreen
23:47:23 <GregorR> Emacs is an OS running on top of a Lisp VM which a lot of people happen to use for its text editor.
23:47:24 <ehird`> these people are idiots, too, but hey
23:47:39 <bsmntbombdood> 
23:47:52 <ehird`> the problem with the emacs/os analogy, is that when you look it as an OS
23:47:55 <ehird`> emacs is a pretty shitty os
23:48:00 <GregorR> Heh
23:48:12 <pikhq> Emacs is an OS running on top of a Lisp VM which has an editor as its main UI metaphore.
23:48:20 <fax> haha
23:48:21 <fax> yeah
23:49:15 <ehird`> yes
23:49:25 <ehird`> it's not a very good one, though :)
23:49:34 <ehird`> hmm
23:49:50 <ehird`> with a bit of glue code, you could actually run real emacs as an OS couldn't you?
23:49:59 <ehird`> as in, not a clone on the bare metal like many
23:50:03 <ehird`> but real gnu emacs/xemacs
23:50:08 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: it's been done
23:50:11 <bsmntbombdood> there's an emacs/linux
23:50:14 <fax> :o
23:50:16 <ehird`> right but that's linux
23:50:20 <ehird`> i mean no OS running at all
23:50:24 <pikhq> What you need to do is implement Elisp on bare metal.
23:50:26 <bsmntbombdood> well, it needs a kernel
23:50:29 <fax> I want a bootable emacs/linux
23:50:32 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: sure, but you can write it yourself
23:50:37 <fax> CD
23:50:39 <fax> bsmntbombdood: where is it?
23:50:45 <ehird`> i mean, if a half-decent OSdever did it, and then implemented, say, an installation wizard
23:50:46 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: you might as well use linux...
23:50:50 <ehird`> then we could investigate emacs as an OS
23:50:53 <bsmntbombdood> fax: don't remember sorry
23:50:55 <GregorR> fax: If I had any interest at all, I could make one in a few hours :P
23:50:59 <ehird`> objectively, because we wouldn't be thinking "oh this is a text editor"
23:51:14 <fax> GregorR: A few hours to burn a CD?
23:51:17 <fax> :p
23:51:23 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: linux, though, is a huge-liek-xbox portion of an OS
23:51:26 <GregorR> A few hours to /make/ the distro.
23:51:29 <ehird`> emacs would no longer be the os
23:51:53 <GregorR> Idonno, I've always considered the kernel to be a fairly incidental part of the OS *shrugs*
23:51:57 <ehird`> small (well, big, but not linux-big) glue kernel code + emacs = Emacs actually as an OS
23:52:20 <ehird`> the more i say it
23:52:25 <ehird`> the more i think that that would be an AWESOME project
23:52:29 <bsmntbombdood> fax: hard to search for too :/
23:52:35 <fax> bsmntbombdood: Yeah I couldn't find it
23:52:37 <bsmntbombdood> ehird`: the kernel used doesn't matter
23:52:42 <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: that's no the point
23:52:51 <bsmntbombdood> emacs would be the whole os
23:52:54 <ehird`> linux-which-just-runs-emacs is linux which just runs emacs
23:52:59 <bsmntbombdood> no
23:53:05 <ehird`> emacs-on-bare-metal-with-just-some-extra-glue-code is emacs as an os
23:53:18 <bsmntbombdood> fax: ask in #emacs maybe?
23:55:05 <bsmntbombdood> hmm
23:55:10 <bsmntbombdood> i should improve me typing speed
23:55:21 <ehird`> i type really fast when i can be bothered
23:55:29 <ehird`> i'm still much faster than most people even when i'm not bothered
23:55:38 <ehird`> (i am not bothered right now.)
23:55:44 <bsmntbombdood> it would be cool to type as fast as talking
23:55:59 <GregorR> We should set up a voicemail group chat wooooh
23:55:59 <ehird`> I can type just as fast as talking, actually a little faster.
23:56:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
23:56:08 <ehird`> When I try, of course.
23:56:08 <oklopol> o
23:56:09 <bsmntbombdood> GregorR: ok :P
23:56:18 <pikhq> ehird, I do the same. . .
23:56:21 <GregorR> Now let's argue until our faces turn blue about the protocol to use!
23:56:26 <pikhq> I also type much faster than I hand-write. w00ts.
23:56:36 <bsmntbombdood> you can do getto voip by just piping /dev/mic or whatever through netcat
23:56:41 <ehird`> when trying, my typing speed has maxed around 152WPM
23:56:50 <ehird`> (not a typo)
23:56:58 * pikhq does 70. You cheat.
23:57:03 <ehird`> no i don't :)
23:57:35 <ehird`> Actually, the WPM calculator was really accurate. It displayed some random text from its database that you couldn't see first-time, and counted mistakes for you
23:57:40 <ehird`> This thing: http://labs.jphantom.com/wpm/
23:57:50 <ehird`> I did lots of tests with it, and my max was 152
23:57:53 <ehird`> my lowest was 125
23:58:26 <bsmntbombdood> ha yeah right
23:58:28 * bsmntbombdood does it
23:58:36 <ehird`> why yeah right?
23:58:44 <ehird`> what have i got to gain from lying about my typing speed?
23:59:24 <bsmntbombdood> epeen
23:59:34 <ehird`> pah