< 1193962052 0 :ihope_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1193962091 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi RedDak, bsmntbom1dood, oerjan, importantshock, and PancakeHouse.. < 1193962100 0 :importantshock!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up? < 1193962118 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying hi while ignoring the timestamps completely :/ < 1193962139 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M HERE TOO :< < 1193962158 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: :) < 1193962514 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1193962530 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1193962561 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1193963991 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1193965811 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1193967068 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gasp! Who smiled at me? < 1193967200 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME < 1193967694 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeew < 1193967714 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1193967734 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION molests ihope_  < 1193967744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Any progress on pebble.pebble? < 1193967748 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nope =( < 1193967750 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon, soon < 1193967856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going now < 1193967856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1193967883 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this song goes duh duh duh, duh duh duh duh duh duh < 1193967905 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some trumpets! < 1193967923 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you can't guess what it is < 1193967950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ritorna Vincitor from Aida? < 1193967972 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha i win < 1193968076 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1193968686 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am extremely curious to see how the self-hosting pebble implementation fares < 1193968743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As am I. < 1193968893 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gonna be hella big < 1193969099 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, no shit < 1193969109 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more complex than lostkingdom. < 1193969125 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hazard a loose guess somewhere around 6mb of BF code < 1193969133 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more when it bootstraps itself < 1193969148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I find that PEBBLE code manages to be a bit more efficient than BFBASIC. . . < 1193969162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lower level, though) < 1193969177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6mb, lol < 1193969200 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lostking is about 2.4mb, if I recall < 1193969211 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1193969302 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a text adventure game written in calamari's astounding BFBASIC < 1193969316 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1193969377 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html < 1193969486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It inspired my little bit of a game in PEBBLE. < 1193969501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My engine kicks ass, but my game lacks. . . Anything. :p < 1193969626 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want some help coming up with an actual story or something, I might be able to help < 1193969710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may desire that some time when I have time. . . < 1193969730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Christmas break, or Thanksgiving break, would be a good time to write & implement that. < 1193969756 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get like 12 days for thanksgiving! < 1193969784 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll brainstorm some stuff over thanksgiving, but as a general policy I don't connect to the internet while I'm on vacation < 1193969804 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally code something amazing in my self-induced isolation < 1193972418 0 :cpressey!n=Chris@bas1-windsor12-1128691432.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1193972437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes for scaring the hell out of cpressey < 1193972454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to scare a Great One < 1193972469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey == Great One? < 1193972473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof, please. < 1193972498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/cpressey/languages.html < 1193972504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh*. < 1193972519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows humbly < 1193972559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes the bow deeper. . . < 1193972562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALPACA. :) < 1193972631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ALPACA is not mentioned on the Chris Pressey page on the wiki. < 1193972690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus fixed < 1193972706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, oerjan < 1193972710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it going? < 1193972759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to wondering how ehird is going to pull off PEBBLE in PEBBLE. < 1193972768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ihope_'s redivider and ehird's plan to self-host PEBBLE seems the current rages < 1193972783 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /mes sgt999g < 1193972811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been out of the loop for a while < 1193972832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I've never seen you here before, and I've been here for over a year, I'd say so. ;) < 1193972871 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, cpressey < 1193972907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a good excuse... i was busy finishing up my degree :) < 1193972911 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey lament! < 1193972915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen cpressey do some wiki posting < 1193972935 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: done studying? < 1193972935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p < 1193972960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm currently stuck in southern ontario, but i got a laptop and have been working on esolangs. < 1193972968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. cpressey, RUN! < 1193972983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1193972983 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yep, i don't officially graduate until december, but i've completed my requirements < 1193973002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: from what? < 1193973016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p < 1193973018 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, there doesn't seem to be an eso wiki entry for PEBBLE < 1193973024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh. < 1193973024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Grr. < 1193973027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need one. < 1193973031 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: which university do you graduate from? < 1193973039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(too lazy to write one. . .) < 1193973039 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: UBC. < 1193973045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1193973048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: was that a trick question? :) < 1193973063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEBBLE is a Brainfuck-targetting macro language I've devised. I'm kinda proud of it. < 1193973078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess i had credits from before... but it's the university you finish at that counts < 1193973093 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i thought maybe you changed universities again, if you're in southern ontario < 1193973107 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: welcome, great one < 1193973120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah, i see. no, i'm in ON for completely different reasons. < 1193973138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if we can get Gregor to talk, we can have a party of esolang designers. :p < 1193973142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, RodgerTheGreat < 1193973156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouter showed up on here once too < 1193973159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and our local dieties, for that matter) < 1193973167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was once, and it was while i was asleep < 1193973180 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used to be a regular < 1193973184 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-regular < 1193973188 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long long time ago < 1193973193 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before my time < 1193973208 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme super-fiber drinks and shakes keep me regular! < 1193973223 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not regular, but he showed up more than once :D < 1193973233 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I humbly offer this piece of syntax: [clear 1 disp 0 1 !fibo] :run [copy rollup add copy disp copy 144 nequ [!fibo] if] :fibo !run < 1193973268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offer this syntax instead: source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "Hello, world!\n" : temp1 temp2 < 1193973332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i have no gnarly syntax to offer in return < 1193973342 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you looked at all the nonsense about the wolfram research prize? < 1193973350 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do not wish to trade, only for your blessings < 1193973421 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it seems there's a question of whether to allow infinite initial conditions, and if so then of what kind < 1193973441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask ais523 if he shows up again. < 1193973448 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you have my blessings, except that i feel like i'm in "life of brian" or something < 1193973458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1193973460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: hm. < 1193973467 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1193973485 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: like, a game-of-life turing machine emulator probably needs an infinite tape < 1193973491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite initial conditions seem fair enough, it was used for wolfram's r110 as well but there i think it was simply repeating in each direction < 1193973492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so it seems fair to allow that < 1193973495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yeah, i think i thought about that at some point in the summer < 1193973501 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, now I can add "BLESSED BY A GREAT ONE" to the Sprocket manual. < 1193973530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but there need to be limits on what the infinite initial configuration is < 1193973532 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, if you allow arbitrary infinite initial conditions, then the halting problem can be solved trivially < 1193973550 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a question of how much to allow < 1193973582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds "Blessed by 2 Great Ones" to the PEBBLE docs < 1193973585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could accept something that can be recognized by a regular expression or maybe even a CFG < 1193973594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calls oerjan a great one. :p < 1193973600 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case smetana is turing-complete < 1193973642 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need infinitely big programs, consisting mostly of identical, except for the numbers that are all shifted equal amount, chunks corresponding to "memory cells" < 1193973651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we've been over this :) the problem is that a smetana program only has a finite number of instructions. i grant you that if there were an infinite number, it could be < 1193973667 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we seem to be on the same track < 1193973670 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you allow infinite starting conditions, that's equivalent to allowing infinite programs < 1193973707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ok, maybe we need to clarify something. i have no idea what the wolfram research thingy is, for example < 1193973723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i might be speaking without knowing what we're talking about exactly < 1193973730 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram wanted a proof that some turing machine is universal < 1193973735 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html < 1193973744 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy from #esoteric (ais523) proved it < 1193973745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :danke < 1193973762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that one < 1193973767 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1193973815 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interesting question, how much complexity can you put in infinite conditions < 1193973830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly "the memory is initialized as an infinite stack of zeros" is perfectly fine :) < 1193973836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, i did not need to be reminded about how fatuous wolfram is < 1193973844 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes. < 1193973851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1193973862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, i can't type quickly enough on this toy kbd < 1193973879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same problem with wolfram's CA - i noticed it earlier < 1193973902 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his CA is not TC because there's one thing that a TM can do that his CA can't - that is, halt < 1193973929 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's seriously distorting the definition of Turing-complete by claiming that rule 110 is TC < 1193973950 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you need an observer smart enough to realize that it "halted" < 1193973956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together the system is obviously TC < 1193973969 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the observer doesn't have to be very smart < 1193973975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: exactly, you need a halting predicate, and implementing that predicate *will take more states* if not more symbols < 1193973998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One could argue that having the cellular automaton stabilise is 'halting'. < 1193974004 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: not very smart, but just smart enough to make his machine bigger than minksy's :) < 1193974029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how do you know that it's stabilized, though? < 1193974032 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1193974063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there is some finite automaton to check each generation, isn't there? < 1193974084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, this ties in with something else i've been thinking about regarding TM's - they don't need infinte tapes, only expanding tapes. < 1193974119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two are, for all intents and purposes, the same. . . < 1193974127 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and smetana doesn't need infinite programs, only expanding programs :) < 1193974133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, you can think of an 'initial pattern' as being generated on the tape, every time you extend it < 1193974144 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for that you need some kind of mechanism. more states. < 1193974155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ok, ok! :) < 1193974162 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely expanding tape, which is pretty much the same thing < 1193974178 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, bsmntbombdood: yes. they're equivalent. < 1193974203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comments on #esoteric being much more educational than high school. . . < 1193974213 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mainly tradition that keeps the description of a TM starting off with "Well it has this infinte tape you see, and..." < 1193974226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1193974267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there's good reasons for it to not have a limit < 1193974270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, yeah. < 1193974295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that ther are definate problems with wolfram's 2,3 machine's "universality" < 1193974341 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would maybe be OK with it being called a kind of universality, but it's not the kind that's used in computabilty theory < 1193974386 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in computability theory, people are concerned with decision problems, and semi-decision problems, and that stuff. if you can't halt, though, you can't decide anything. < 1193974434 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still think smetana is tc :D < 1193974450 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: fine. for you, it's TC :) < 1193974464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add that stipulation to the language definition :) < 1193974512 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions < 1193974527 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the only reason _against_ it being TC is if we for some reason treat code differently from data < 1193974532 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a fsm be turing complete if it has infinite states? < 1193974543 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it can't be a fsm :) < 1193974549 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i'm actually perfectly OK with there being a tiny variation on smetana (like, to give it the ability to make new instructions) to let it be TC, but i'd sort of prefer that that variation have a diferent name < 1193974566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsmetana. < 1193974569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: since the states could include the whole content of a turing tape, yes < 1193974592 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how about "Etanasmay"? :) < 1193974593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i already named it Smetana+1 < 1193974601 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but why? what's wrong with my logic? < 1193974607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years ago or so < 1193974634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: your logic... well, is smallfuck TC? < 1193974643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions for CA, might as well allow them for smetana. < 1193974663 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i must've missed that. < 1193974672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which it can interpret regular brainfuck < 1193974672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was on the mailing list < 1193974707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: BUT... CA are generally defined to have *unbounded* playfields. SMETANA is not. like most programming language, the program is assumed to be of fixed size during execution. < 1193974713 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the only problem with that is "you can't have infinitely big programs", but how's that different from having infinite starting conditions for a CA? < 1193974728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i unsubscribed to it ages ago. < 1193974750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still subscribed, haven't received any mail in many years < 1193974785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that busy huh? mailing lists were a lot more interesting in the earlier days of the internet than they are now < 1193974810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: grrrr :) < 1193974836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, there's been activity on the esolangs forum < 1193974836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's not that you can't have infinitely long programs, it's that SMETANA isn't defined for them. < 1193974860 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-225-204.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193974871 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: unlike most CA, which, being mathematical beasts, are a bit more flexible, i suppose you could say. < 1193974885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first new post starts with "I wish this forum was more active." :S < 1193974888 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so a language just like smetana but allowing infinitely long programs is 1) turing complete 2) capable of being interpreted by, for example, CA, since they allow the entire smetana program to be given as starting conditions < 1193974889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked at the forum either < 1193974897 0 :importantshock!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1193974902 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: 1) yes 2) yes < 1193974915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not usually very active. < 1193974935 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: in fact, the programs can be infinitely long and blank in all but a finite number of instructions, i thin < 1193974953 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smetana doesn't have blank instructions! < 1193974960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blank" in SMETANA being something like, Step n. Go to step n. aybe? < 1193974961 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blank" doesn't even mean anything < 1193974996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, you need the ability to change infinitely many steps, which means there needs to be Swaps referring to them. < 1193974996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blank" in the sense of "not useful" (unlike the starting configuration of a CA, where you might want an exquisite infinite pattern) < 1193975007 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hrm. ok, maybe. < 1193975041 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't given it much thought, honestly, it's just that lament keeps bugging me about it :) < 1193975044 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1193975073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, i went one step further with Moldau which really only needs Goto, but where labels are general data structures < 1193975128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: excellent. i really have been out of the loop < 1193975136 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i've been busy, too < 1193975155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i never implemented either... as usual. < 1193975185 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wiki entry for Moldau either < 1193975205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only on the mailing list too < 1193975310 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been on an abstact algebra kick lately < 1193975320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asbtRact algebra, even. < 1193975329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... oh, forget it. < 1193975336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been on a calculus kick for the past year, myself. < 1193975340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates toy laptp keyboards < 1193975370 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: managed to work any of it into an esolang? :) < 1193975383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nope. < 1193975396 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I should. < 1193975407 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some stuff that steve smale (famous-pants mathematician) has done regarding computability in the reals that's kind of interesting < 1193975418 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a domain where integration is turing complte < 1193975429 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penrose made some remark about how the mandelbrot set is uncomputable or something < 1193975454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION *must* now make an esolang that nobody else in his high school will understand < 1193975469 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1193975479 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone in your high school understands brainfuck, you've got a crazy ass highschool < 1193975483 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i found it interesting that taking derivatives is basicall mechanical but taking antiderivates is... well, not < 1193975495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the guy that understands Brainfuck. :) < 1193975496 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise i suck at calculus < 1193975503 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we;;. yeah < 1193975511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm quite good at calculus. < 1193975517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1193975528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about lambda calculus < 1193975551 0 :sp3tt!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1193975552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not much of a Knight of the Lambda Calculus. < 1193975557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I'd love to be one) < 1193975593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's a though. try to merge lambda calculus with calculus (real-analysis "regular ol'" calculus) < 1193975601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm. < 1193975602 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i be willing to wager a few day's wages that i'm the only one at my high school that understands unlambda < 1193975613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: As would I. < 1193975617 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make $0.00 a day. < 1193975658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: are you going to graduate soon, as well? < 1193975658 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, but even if i didn't :P < 1193975694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does jeffrey johnston still hang out here? < 1193975762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see GregorR and jix and mtve in the userlist, so there's some regulars from days gone by still here it seems < 1193975812 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey < 1193975820 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprise reappearance < 1193975832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hello, hat-wearing moxie-guzzling fellow < 1193975844 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't had Moxie in far too long :( :( :( < 1193975870 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah, done courses in december, graduating in may < 1193975895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: cool < 1193975976 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-123.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193976013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/burro/ < 1193976030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i've been doing lately. < 1193976042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i've been doing it off and on for the past 2 years < 1193976066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by http://catseye.tc/projects/cabra/ < 1193976107 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse the awkward presentation - i am no mathematician < 1193976114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, reversible programming < 1193976119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sort of. < 1193976152 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sort of an unforseen side-effect of making it a group < 1193976209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and burro programs don't really get reversed so much as they get... annihilated. it's not like they're "rewound", it's more like they never existed (the semantics cancel out to get NOP) < 1193976216 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next one is vaca? < 1193976236 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, i was thinking "potro", but vaca is a good suggestion too < 1193976259 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is a next one. i'm a bit burnt out on abstract algebra now < 1193976434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: jeez, no wiki entry for Sprocket either?!? :) < 1193976443 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1193976492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: is there a doc i can download somewhere? < 1193976515 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can pastebin a very brief command summary < 1193976530 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1193972891.html < 1193976557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: ah... so that's the syntax you sent earlier... gotcha < 1193976570 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. :) < 1193976618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dare I ask pikhq about PEBBLE? < 1193976871 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"rebooting to test an OS" < 1193977039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/esoteric.php < 1193977250 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-225-204.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193977254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see... interesting < 1193977363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a few languages added to the wiki, too. nice. < 1193977686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least one of them is mine. < 1193977978 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-168-123.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193978532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cheers, for Plof no longer has the thick-and-thin functions < 1193978733 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1193979177 0 :immibissClone!n=immibis@125-236-168-123.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193979185 0 :immibissClone!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :immibis < 1193979187 0 :immibis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1193979241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've got an idea for Agora. Pity you're not in it; otherwise, I'd ask you for assistance with it. . . < 1193979285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define a partnership. That partnership's rules shall be that of a Nomic. Subnomic. :D) < 1193979307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in Agora? < 1193979314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am. < 1193979322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I notice that you won it once. < 1193979324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small the world is < 1193979348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1193979361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was interested in FRC once.. < 1193979363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is big, the internet is pretty small though < 1193979380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is on the Agora discussion thing for some reason < 1193979382 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few hubs of cool stuff in the vast badlands of porn < 1193979388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why < 1193979391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never has the word badlands been more appropriate) < 1193979406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW XKCD SOON! < 1193979411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1193979619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1193979639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants someone to join him in the Subnomic Partnership. < 1193979645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) XKCD! < 1193979668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I have time (never) I'll look at Agora again < 1193979701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are aware that FRC started as a Subnomic of Nomic World, and Agora rose from its ashes? < 1193979721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then let's be nostalgic. < 1193979763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1193979768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug*\ < 1193979792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably hold off on that, anyways. . . < 1193979808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora is currently swamped with 10,000 CFJs. . . < 1193979817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1193979843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I call for judgement on the following statement 10,000 times: This is Sparta.) < 1193979899 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(worst movie ever?) < 1193979930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kinda hopes that his proposal on removing all changes in game state caused by that is passed. . . < 1193980723 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1193980730 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-168-123.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193980791 0 :immibis_!n=immibis@125-236-168-123.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1193981194 0 :bsmntbom1dood!i=gavin@rrcs-67-52-47-67.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1193981238 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1193981250 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-048-026.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1193989158 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1193989158 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1193989176 0 :SEO_DUDE56!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1193989215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Something" < 1193989286 0 :i4nic8!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1193989491 0 :i4nic8!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]" < 1193989656 0 :SEO_DUDE56!i=Deee@gateway/tor/x-7453ec7364f4e4a0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1193990399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1193990400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1193990995 0 :bsmntbombdood!i=gavin@rrcs-67-52-47-67.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1193991680 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1193991683 0 :SEO_DUDE56!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1193992546 0 :SEO_DUDE56!i=Deee@gateway/tor/x-c08f9dbeda1039a2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1193992945 0 :i4nic8!n=i4nic8@CPE-121-217-159-232.nsw.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1193993021 0 :i4nic8!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1193997029 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"gnight" < 1194000957 0 :bsmntbom1dood!i=gavin@rrcs-67-52-47-67.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1194001336 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host107-85-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1194001637 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1194005590 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194009537 0 :Keymaker!n=nobody@xdsl-237-87.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1194009567 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any chance chris pressey is here? < 1194009654 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not... < 1194009658 0 :Keymaker!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1194012825 0 :Tritonio!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1194014962 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194016101 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host107-85-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1194016797 0 :ehird`!n=test@user-544158a3.l5.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1194018565 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194024451 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1194024463 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-045-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1194024903 0 :bsmntbom1dood!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1194025153 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-100-134.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1194025436 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1194031954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1194031956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1194031957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1194031957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1194032002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1194032029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u? :| < 1194032035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1194032047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're one weird fella! < 1194032066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you started it < 1194033026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "o", you said "u", there's a great difference. < 1194033111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but first you said i < 1194033119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very egoistic thing to say < 1194033141 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grEGOrrtistic?! < 1194033155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1194033167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that how EgoBot was named? < 1194033181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1194033183 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1194033190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how all Ego* projects are named < 1194033197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... did you not pick up on that? < 1194033248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, from grEGOr < 1194033257 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1194033265 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how all of Ego* projects were named < 1194033269 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[e.g. EgoBF] < 1194034045 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-5-215.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1194034058 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194034065 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1194034080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are right, i may have been a bit selfish there by accident < 1194034125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, where's all the time slippin', it's like 20 min since i last spoke and i haven't really done anything... < 1194034146 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahtiuhariuthkjghlkdfhgkjdafghkadhg stupid windows and stupid router and stupid firewall < 1194034173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahtiuhari is very finnishish < 1194034178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfsdfsdffhkfjhafkhsldf < 1194034191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 84.65.88.163:8080. < 1194034192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL WHY NOT < 1194034194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my sentiment exactly < 1194034203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahti is like the god of sea or something, uhari could be a slang way to say uhkalaukaus or something < 1194034210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that uhkalaukaus would mean anything < 1194034211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rtrklrktkrlktrsklrtrlt is very czech < 1194034215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thread shot) < 1194034217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*threat < 1194034253 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, list of what i've done < 1194034254 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set up DMZ < 1194034262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disabled router firewall + personal firewall < 1194034267 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet < 1194034273 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it STILL won't load the page < 1194034461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this not working??? < 1194034564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to visit _that_ page? < 1194034572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you evil, evil man < 1194034615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did the poor squirrels do to you? < 1194034628 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1194034634 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my local webserver's page. < 1194034640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1194034652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can access it from 127.0.0.1 < 1194034656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not from the outside world < 1194034661 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never even hits my personal firewall < 1194034702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither. < 1194034721 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1194034733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squirrel porn is awesome < 1194034784 0 :bartw!n=bwerf@bwerf.xs4all.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1194034907 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i had it bound to localhost < 1194034909 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID STUPID STUPID < 1194034915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi bartw < 1194034960 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ellow < 1194035002 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course predictably it still doesn't work :| < 1194035036 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, on with the compiler building < 1194035085 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shieldsup says the port is stealth :| < 1194035162 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRRRRRRRRR < 1194035238 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1194035265 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahaha < 1194035269 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot to change the port in my firewall < 1194035509 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmz < 1194035515 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1194035518 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.x() < 1194035537 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a.x is a valid expression returning a function pointer < 1194035549 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean the overloading isn't possible < 1194035579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1194035593 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.x()() < 1194035618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.x()()() < 1194035659 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISCLAIMER: Gregor doesn't have a clue WTF you're talkinga bout :) < 1194035663 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talking about < 1194035673 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1194035902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming bartw asked whether it's possible to define a language where a.x can have multiple definitions < 1194035915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it's possible < 1194035963 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several languages have the concept of method overloading, disambiguated by parameter count and type < 1194035988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1194035990 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you start to juggle with functionpointers, hwo do you disabiguate < 1194035990 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this isn't the channel for this it seems < 1194036033 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is < 1194036035 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how you define your overloading. < 1194036047 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is overloading name -> many functions or function -> many effects < 1194036070 0 :bartw!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, 1 name, several functions < 1194036074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bartw: depends on call semantics... it's trivial to convert overloading into pattern amtching. < 1194036077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matching < 1194036127 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194036134 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1194037514 0 :cpressey!n=Chris@bas1-windsor12-1128691432.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1194037526 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1194037533 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1194039090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Supper" < 1194039219 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1194039722 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone < 1194039730 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1194040432 0 :cpressey!n=Chris@bas1-windsor12-1128691432.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1194042132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1194045000 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-225-204.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1194045101 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1194045908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prize for making the shortest equivelant to +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<<<<-] < 1194045943 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Hello interpreter]!H < 1194045963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: WE ARE NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK! < 1194045977 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, put [16*1, 16*2, 16*3, 16*4, 16*5, 16*6, 16*7, 16*8] in the tape < 1194045987 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not my homework :( < 1194045989 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1194045990 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1194046003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were, i'd be totally jealous < 1194046015 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Put16TimesNForNinARangeFrom1to8OnTape Interpreter] < 1194046135 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1194046162 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when in doubt, invent a language that can do it < 1194046180 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm i wonder if it would be shorter to put [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] on the tape and map *16 across it < 1194046192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1194046206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe try not having 16 +s < 1194046269 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how < 1194046279 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF constants page, high-ho < 1194046284 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that < 1194046722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically want the shortest code to load a number and all/some of its factors < 1194047007 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wapr has been out for ages now and nobody's written anything in it ;P < 1194047090 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wapr, the stuff there is stack comments, not argument syntax) < 1194047096 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is most likely turing complete < 1194047098 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"getting off, i will pack this up soon" < 1194047125 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most? < 1194047138 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers. < 1194047185 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt' that the busy beaver problem < 1194047185 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1194047208 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1194047213 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1194047241 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good to know i recognize is < 1194047244 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1194047344 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entry: +++[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[..-] < 1194047364 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1194047376 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too long < 1194047379 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 char would be better < 1194047384 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: (10:55:55 PM) ihope_: What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most? < 1194047384 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10:56:08 PM) ihope_: Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers. < 1194047398 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1194047409 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was ihope_'s entry to the above < 1194047414 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know... < 1194047417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1194047417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1194047418 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1194047420 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1194047421 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it now < 1194047422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1194047425 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 char competition < 1194047452 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my entry: +[..] < 1194047461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite output, i win < 1194047464 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to halt < 1194047486 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1194047489 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible then < 1194047495 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the max you can get is +[.+] < 1194047495 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible? < 1194047507 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cells aren't wrapping... < 1194047524 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit < 1194047525 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1194047530 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me YOUR 5 char entry < 1194047663 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1194047785 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so,h eh < 1194047833 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 5 char entry is ..... < 1194047857 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about 8 chars < 1194047877 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's find the lowest number where the number of prints is greater than the length < 1194047885 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[...++] < 1194047887 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1194047890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't halt < 1194047893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: heh < 1194047899 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that might be hard < 1194047902 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope_ might do it though < 1194047910 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering he started this mess ;)