00:10:54 -!- ihope has joined. 00:30:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:35:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:39:24 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:40:18 -!- tokigun has joined. 00:42:52 -!- Guilt has joined. 00:43:07 hi. i uploaded a newer compiler here: http://guilt.bafsoft.net/downloads/wip/Brainfuck/ 00:43:39 it converts to x86 asm. right now does jump optimizations.. will eventually work out balanced loop optimization once i have an intermediete representation 00:44:01 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:44:10 i would like feedback and bug reports, if any. 00:46:22 'Lo. 00:46:45 sweet-n-lo 00:47:53 lo! :) 00:49:13 Ello. 00:50:06 "Hello" 00:50:12 "'ello" 00:50:14 "'lo" 00:50:23 "'o" (OK, maybe not) 00:50:37 hehe :) 00:51:48 "'" 00:52:34 * GregorR uses "'" as a greeting from now on. 00:53:19 O'bsmntbombdood -> Oh, hello bsmntbombdood! 00:53:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 00:53:40 didn't know he was irish... 00:54:59 Just like John Van Von O'McFitzsonovichstein 00:58:27 Is there a first name that means "my son"? :P 00:58:57 yeah 00:58:58 mison 00:59:09 * GregorR stabs bsmntbombdood in the facehole. 00:59:23 don't make fun of my facial deformity :( 01:01:37 you're pretty good at photoshopping it away, then 01:01:38 I'm not making fun of it ... just stabbing it. 01:02:05 are there any easy to understand books on automata? 01:02:06 :) 01:02:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:02:29 without too much math in it? like a quintuplet of sorts? :) 01:02:58 i know it's like asking for food without calories.. but a low-cal diet would be great! :) 01:03:09 GregorR: stabbing exacerbates my azerbaijan 01:04:29 "Mijo" means "my son"! It's just not a name. 01:04:35 As far as I know, at least. 01:04:40 it could be a name 01:04:44 Indeed. 01:05:04 Guilt: automata, you say? Like cellular automata and Turing machines and Minsky machines and Langton's ant? 01:05:16 yeah. that stuff. 01:05:41 But math IS that stuff! :-) 01:06:08 ooh :| is there a good math tutorial at least? :) 01:06:22 i lost interest in math after 1st year of univ. 01:06:23 "is there a good math tutorial" :P 01:06:27 and it's been years since 01:06:37 well. i fear math now. totally. 01:06:40 Eh, there are lots of things that can follow "math is". 01:07:00 Well, what are you after? A list of automata? 01:07:02 * oerjan wonders if MCC over at GoodMath did automata 01:07:36 understanding that stuff. 01:07:56 oerjan: I suspect he has. 01:07:59 Is there any certain automaton you don't understand? 01:08:38 Guilt: What a shame. 01:08:43 ihope: turing machines, for starters. 01:08:54 * pikhq is in high school, and loves math. 01:08:55 and yes, a shame :( 01:08:57 Mmm, calculus. 01:09:01 i am _sure_ MCC did turing machines 01:09:07 pikhq, i loved calculus in school 01:09:34 then they taught something on differential equations and those generating long polynomials 01:09:47 Guilt: maybe an animation of a Turing machine would help? 01:09:48 and holes and stuff in complex numbers, and all that high school math went deep into the drain 01:09:53 ihope: sure. 01:10:30 Now I just have to find one, I guess. 01:10:35 eventually, i hope to learn enough math to follow TAOCP. a lifetime goal. lol 01:10:37 i haven't been there in a while, but there were always people saying things like "i tried to learn this before, but i never understood it before you explained it" 01:10:51 ... 01:10:54 yeah. understanding is the key to these things. 01:11:09 Holes in functions & complex numbers are difficult? 01:11:28 It's so much easier just to be a genius, eh pikhq? 01:11:32 there's a whole lot of things behind that now which i don't remember. 01:11:47 GregorR: Of course it is. 01:11:48 Yeah, being a genius is nice. You should try it sometime. :-P 01:11:58 yeah. and if you're a genius, that's great. i admit i'm not one. but i intend to eventually become not so dumb. 01:11:59 :) 01:12:05 (as a genius, I'm well aware of that. :p) 01:12:11 Now, to go kill myself over my upcoming crypto assignment argh Gregor hate argh argh 01:12:19 s/assignment/midterm/ 01:12:34 i think of crypto as a blackbox. something goes in and something else comes out. :) that has it's advantages 01:12:45 i could figure out the math somewhat in RSA and DH though. 01:12:47 Yes. Yes it does. I used to live in that happy universe *sobs* 01:12:53 hehe :) 01:13:04 should this channel be #math? :) 01:13:12 No, #math should. 01:13:23 #math has people like TRWBW. Not that that's a bad thing? 01:13:35 who's trwbw? 01:13:49 uman: you asked a question, i gave you valid information, either thank me or just shut up. anyways, go with god 01:14:39 Perhaps I should make a Turing machine animation. 01:14:48 TRWBW is my new hero :P 01:14:49 It's not hard to make a bad one! :-P 01:15:02 graphviz is your friend! 01:15:19 * GregorR <3 graphviz 01:15:27 One of those programs that is way more helpful than it ought to be :P 01:15:30 http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/02/basics_the_turing_machine_with_1.php#more 01:15:42 Oh, that looks useful. 01:19:14 (note in my browser at least that has a formatting error so the actual article is below all the menus) 01:20:55 one more question: why haskell? :) 01:21:04 It's oerjan. 01:21:11 is learning it fundamental to researching stuff like this? 01:21:11 It wouldn't *be* Oerjan without Haskell. :p 01:21:18 uhh. 01:21:30 Oh. MCC did some Haskell there? 01:21:47 yep 01:22:25 I suspect Haskell is for the more mathematically inclined. :p 01:22:37 he also started a haskell tutorial 01:22:38 :P 01:23:23 the fact that MCC used haskell is probably not my fault though 01:23:40 we discovered it independently, afaik 01:23:43 I still blame you. 01:23:51 Wait. . . Do you *know* MCC? 01:24:03 no, but i followed the blog for a while 01:24:06 Ah. 01:24:37 O_O wierd. 01:24:38 the probably was an understatement 01:24:51 i realize what a mathematical world this is. 01:25:17 also, i started reading it because of his weekly esolang, not is haskell 01:25:27 *his 01:25:47 in fact someone here pointed me to it 01:25:57 is haskell an esolang? 01:26:05 looks decent to me. like lisp or somethin 01:26:11 usually not considered as such :) 01:26:32 but it is quite different from most programming languages 01:27:10 hmm 01:27:48 ooh you know what would be awesome 01:28:02 a forum like slashdot, except all posting done by mail 01:28:13 *cough* 01:28:15 Usenet. 01:28:40 er, postal mail 01:28:58 Ah. 01:29:09 Usenet over post. 01:29:37 either no one would participate, or only people who really had something decent to say would participate 01:30:02 -!- ihope_ has joined. 01:31:37 ooh. zip in python looks like borrowed from haskell 01:31:38 :) 01:31:49 stupid languages.. all similiar looking 01:31:54 comprehensions too 01:32:07 hmm O_O 01:32:18 i'm going to get mad one day.. looking at x numbers of languages 01:32:19 :) 01:32:47 although both zip and comprehensions are probably older than both 01:32:56 hmm 01:33:03 well, comprehensions really come from math 01:33:11 omg. haskell has a posix api with networking? 01:33:17 As do functions. Your point? 01:33:20 i hope nobody's doing SOA with it. 01:33:36 sure. the number of libraries have really started to take off lately 01:34:20 thank god brainfuck doesn't say something about tcp or file streams 01:34:30 :) although it could act as a http client with nc. heh 01:34:35 It would if we worked on PSOX. 01:34:44 -!- k1w2u3 has joined. 01:34:47 what's a PSOX? 01:35:06 there's happs, for building web services with haskell 01:35:21 PSOX is a suggested API via I/O to allow esoteric languages access to things like files, TCP streams, etc. 01:36:06 O_O 01:36:13 lool 01:36:14 :) 01:36:51 (yes, we are insane; thank you for noticing) 01:38:05 * oerjan goes to find that quote again 01:38:12 can PSOX work with a normal brainfuck interp? 01:38:20 as of now, any existing implementations? 01:38:59 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-new-cat.b ? 01:39:09 That would be an *example* of PSOX. 01:39:18 Sgeo has no implementation finished. 01:39:21 "We're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know that I am mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 01:39:23 Or, indeed, a finished spec. 01:39:37 heh. through the looking glass? 01:39:40 or the first one? 01:40:22 i think alice in wonderland, but not sure 01:43:03 -!- Guilt has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:48:52 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 01:54:03 http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/11/musical_goofiness_with_a_mathy.php 02:15:42 -!- k1w2u3 has left (?). 02:26:15 Wow. 02:26:17 That - is - AWESOME 02:33:41 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 02:48:59 sooo who wants to start a mail-in internet forum? 02:54:40 like slashdot, with news articles to start discussion (less time-sensitive and longer lived than slashdot's though), with a postal adress to send comments to, where someone does very light moderation (removing spam and the "AI()(#J KDKSD"s), scans, threadifies, and posts the mail 02:55:58 this reminds me of a very old-fangled concept which i'm sure you young whipper-snappers haven't heard about, called a magazine. 02:56:26 02:56:34 magazines don't post enough mails for decent discussion, and monthly is waaay too long 02:56:55 and expensive to actually print a magazine 02:58:06 you might be interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then 02:58:31 the same space and expense considerations 02:58:34 but touche :P 04:10:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:06 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:17:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:21:49 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:31:36 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:37:39 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:39:12 -!- Slereah- has joined. 04:40:22 -!- zuzu has joined. 04:41:47 -!- zuzu has quit (Success). 04:51:39 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:54:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:54:30 -!- zuzu has joined. 04:55:42 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:55:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)). 04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has joined. 05:11:43 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:18:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:24:52 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:31:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:31:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 05:33:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:05:46 -!- immibis has joined. 06:07:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:01:48 http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/ 07:42:13 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:42:50 cool 07:42:54 my mouse is broken. 07:43:08 last night... was playing with my magnets as usual... dropped one on the computer, perhaps a sensitive area or something, screen went black 07:43:22 tried plugging it in 07:43:37 the weird thing is, i could just recover that from a button on my comp that switches screen on/off 07:43:49 but the mouse ain't working 07:43:52 hmm 07:44:06 is it plugged in 07:44:17 i *could* try taking the battery off and letting it be fully dead for a while 07:44:31 good idea if that's what you meant 07:44:54 is that a laptop? 07:44:58 yeah 07:45:18 is there a button above the touchpad 07:45:19 and it's the touchpad that's not working 07:45:26 with a light near it? 07:45:26 maybe i should've cleared that up 07:45:28 and is the light on? 07:45:29 haha no 07:45:33 i mean 07:45:34 then push the button 07:45:39 no, there isn't one 07:45:45 oh 07:45:54 this is a 2.5-year-old laptop, even i'm not that stupid ;) 07:46:18 yeah 07:46:33 yeah, NoNameScript 07:46:42 * immibis notices that oklopol replied to a /notice by writing in a channel 07:47:03 yes, conclusion: i see notices on the channel i'm currently in 07:47:06 Ooh; the RFC frowns on that! 07:47:14 it does? 07:47:16 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:47:31 "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies must never be sent in response to a NOTICE message." 07:47:49 http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/chapter4.html#c4_4_2 and so on. 07:47:50 fizzie: i think automatic is an important word there 07:48:00 Well, that looked pretty automatic to me! 07:48:44 ban!!! 07:48:44 [20:46] --> oklopol - NoNameScript? 07:48:49 that was the NOTICE 07:48:57 after i version'ed him 07:49:07 Yes, and he automatically replied to it without thinking about it (much). 07:49:20 heh 07:49:31 omg lecture in 12 minutes 6 km away -> 07:49:34 You might get stuck into a loop that way! You'd write replies and replies until your fingers fell off! 07:51:56 /notice immibis Oh Hi 07:54:17 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:54:33 /notice immibis Oh Hi 07:57:07 immibis said Oh Hi. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:57:39 someone notice me (:P) with the word Hi somewhere in the text 07:57:44 immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:57:48 needs to be a capital H 07:59:09 lament said Thou Art Hideous, Wretch!. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:36 lol 08:04:10 Actually RFC 2812 makes the statement even stronger, with ALL CAPS: "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies MUST NEVER be sent in response to a NOTICE message." 08:04:43 ok fixed 08:04:47 immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812! 08:05:25 Very good. 08:07:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:09:15 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Life without danger is a waste of o). 08:14:58 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:37:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:38:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 08:54:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:08:20 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:42:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:02:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:51:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:56:02 * Sgeo pokes people to #psox 11:56:09 SVN repository! 12:02:45 hm 12:22:17 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:25:45 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 12:43:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:52:00 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 13:04:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:20:39 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/ex/example_domain.py 13:31:06 -!- ehird` has left (?). 13:31:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:32:42 -!- jix has joined. 13:32:55 i think i actually managed to design a whole new esoteric language concept today! 13:33:24 well, like 1% change of that happening 13:33:24 cool oklopol 13:33:31 but you can always hope. 13:33:52 it's based on constantly improving guesses 13:34:03 cool 13:34:06 functions always return instantly, but keep on trying to produce a better output 13:34:12 that's like a neural net 13:34:13 neat 13:34:21 i'll implement it show me a spec :P 13:34:36 i'll try myself first :D 13:34:42 butbubutbubtubutbut 13:34:44 I want to do it :( 13:34:47 hehe 13:34:53 i'll do it in python! :9 13:35:12 with the semantics i have now, it's unbelievable complicated; and it's not unambiguous yet. 13:35:28 for some reason i have to do everything in an original way when designing a language 13:36:06 i don't wanna do it in python... too easy :< 13:36:15 i'll write an interp in C 13:36:20 is that hardcore enough for you? 13:36:27 yes 13:36:30 it will be all in main(), be uncommented, and use at least one hex digit 13:36:42 like most C esolang interpreters 13:36:46 will that satisfy you? 13:36:59 but as i said, i'll first finish the language, then try making it myself, then you can do it. :D 13:37:28 that sounds nice, but also remember to avoid recursion 13:37:38 ...and do some inline asm 13:37:40 can't I recurse into main? 13:37:44 that's non-standard and kooky! :D 13:38:00 well, yes, but you shouldn't be dependent on that, just do it for the heck of it 13:38:08 aww 13:38:17 can i do it for my parsing 13:38:23 recurse a few times, then while-loop everything 13:38:48 heh, i'm really not gonna make you a spec, half the fun in designing languages is implementing them :D 13:39:09 you can implement it but give me a spec so i can too 13:39:09 :P 13:39:13 also, implement yours in oklotalk! 13:41:02 heh, i would need to make oklotalk first ;) 13:41:36 actually, one of my greatest problems is i want to use a non garbage collected language, but i don't feel like making good containers in C 13:41:49 D and disable gc? 13:41:51 and i don't know many other non gc languages 13:41:58 D is pretty easy to learn 13:41:58 well, that has actually crossed my mind 13:42:00 alternatively 13:42:05 disable python's gc like so: 13:42:08 but i haven't installed D yet, soooo much work xD 13:42:14 whenever you create an object, push it to a global list 13:42:18 that's "malloc" 13:42:22 when you want to free something 13:42:26 delete it from the list 13:42:33 manual gc :D 13:43:10 if i'd just put ints in the list, it'd be a quite accurate translation 14:03:08 -!- AnMaster has joined. 14:03:44 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 14:04:16 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:21:41 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 14:22:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:22:32 -!- ehird` has left (?). 14:28:50 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:30:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:37:25 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:37:46 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:38:33 -!- k1w2u3 has joined. 14:59:11 -!- k1w2u3 has quit ("Leaving"). 15:04:07 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 15:07:49 * Sgeo points out that there is now an active #psox channel 16:23:15 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:29:30 -!- jix has joined. 16:35:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:41:34 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p264151235.txt <<< code sample ! 17:41:38 gotta go -> 17:49:31 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:31 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:32 -!- ehird` has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:33 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:50:04 -!- EgoBot has joined. 17:50:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 17:50:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:50:04 -!- helios24 has joined. 17:50:04 -!- fizzie has joined. 18:21:38 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 18:22:45 hi 18:22:54 * Sgeo slumps over from tiredness 18:26:01 * bsmntbom1dood punches Sgeo in the tired 18:29:08 that'll hurt in the morning 18:31:22 -!- ihope has joined. 18:47:45 ihope, #psox ? 18:48:10 gosh stop plugging it Sgeo 18:48:10 :P 19:02:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:09:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:15:34 Hi sebbu 19:15:35 sebbu2, 19:28:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:43:18 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 19:45:04 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:48:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:48:57 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:06:07 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:26:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:28:25 5 22:51:13 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:55:37 -!- Nucleo has joined. 23:01:18 -!- Nucleo has changed nick to Nucleo_. 23:01:24 -!- Nucleo_ has changed nick to Alleria_. 23:06:14 . 23:44:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:55:06 Testing factorial program in brainfuck. 23:55:23 dbc: cool 23:55:37 decimal output? 23:55:55 Yeah. 23:56:23 bf random.b | bf byte2dec.b | bf factorial.b | bf numwarp.b = oh wow 23:56:24 :P 23:56:50 Keymaker beat me to it, in fact he made one quite a while ago. But I still didn't take it off my to-do list, and I was bored today. 23:57:04 Reversible Thue would be interesting. 23:57:05 Ah. No, this one doesn't take input. That would actually be easier, thinking about it. 23:57:33 It just guesses what number you want? :-) 23:57:34 Or if not easier, at least maybe shorter. 23:57:39 No, it computes all of them. 23:57:47 it can compute infinite numbers in finite time? 23:57:48 impressive 23:57:55 Or more strictly, it computes any given one. 23:57:56 Indeed. 23:58:02 in finite time. 23:58:04 haskell taken to the logical extreme i guess 23:58:05 ;) 23:58:12 * ihope computes all of them 23:58:13 Done! 23:58:19 ihope: what's the last factorial? 23:58:25 ehird`: what's the last integer? 23:58:44 ihope: the .. um .. factorial-root of the last value your program outputted 23:58:44 ;) 23:59:00 Negation of "it computes all factorials" is "there is a factorial it doesn't compute", right? 23:59:06 Which is wrong. 23:59:09 Well, it kind of ran faster and faster and then stopped suddenly. 23:59:22 ihope: Running on an infinity machine? 23:59:25 Each factorial took half as long to compute as the last one. 23:59:27 That'd be the clockspeed halfing. 23:59:51 Oh, I remember. The last factorial is 0.