2007-11-01: 00:12:45 voiced labial-velar plosive 00:13:39 fucking articulatory phonologists 00:14:04 where did ihope go 00:29:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:00:11 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:07:22 -!- IhopE has joined. 01:07:27 Ello ello. 01:07:44 hello 01:07:46 how's the spec going? :P 01:08:16 geh 01:08:18 lose the caps 01:08:55 heh, BsmntbombdooD 01:09:00 Bsmntbombdoo Dickinson 01:09:06 StfU 01:09:13 Stf Umlaut 01:10:10 -!- IhopE has changed nick to ihope. 01:10:24 I can't be Ihop Elliotson anymore? 01:10:47 And what do you mean, how's the spec coming? Look for yourself :-P 01:11:21 (Which quite possibly came out much more rude than I intended it to be. Sorry.) 01:12:17 Look for myself where? 01:12:20 You never linked. 01:12:32 wikiwikiwikiwiki 01:12:55 Yes, wikiwikiwikiwiki. 01:12:59 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Redivider 01:13:28 (Also, I just remembered why I put bracket parameters after normal parameters. Empty parameter lists are still optional.) 01:13:29 Why did you? 01:13:50 That way, you can put a bracket parameter after any parser, not just functions. 01:14:00 ??? difference = ? 01:14:32 Now you can do stuff like /[a-z]*/["foo bar"] 01:14:43 you still can with my semantics 01:14:47 :/ 01:14:50 You can? 01:14:54 my semantics: 01:15:23 Were you essentially proposing foo[blah](...) as an alternative to foo(...)[blah]? 01:15:34 parser() - parse parser with current string 0 args 01:15:34 parser[x] - parse parser with x 0 args 01:15:34 parser[x]() - see above 01:15:34 parser(a,b) - parse parser with a,b args 01:15:34 parser[x](a,b) - parse parser with x string, a,b args 01:15:54 my main addition is parser[x] shorthand, and putting the [] before () because it looks nicer 01:16:11 So essentially, yes, you were. 01:16:34 Yes, what did you think I was saying 01:29:13 -!- EhirD` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:40:33 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:14:27 * pikhq returns from candy duty. . . 02:14:58 candy duty? 02:15:24 It's Halloween. 02:15:32 i know 02:15:40 BOO! 02:16:01 hm, actually it isn't any more here 02:16:05 is it sad that i'm at home? 02:16:58 Nah. 02:17:05 People came 10 at a time to uor house. . . 02:17:14 Thus, it ran out *really* quickly. 02:17:54 grreeeaat 02:18:05 now my mom is telling me i can't listen to music so i can hear the doorbell 02:18:52 the obvious solution is to hook the doorbell to the internet 02:19:36 that would be pretty sweet 02:19:49 but it would only be used for one night, so not worth it 02:19:58 The better solution is to hook the doorbell to a candy-serving robot. 02:21:26 even better 02:37:50 well, shit 02:38:54 > let perms l = concat $ map (\(h,r) -> map ([h] ++) (perms r)) $ pick l in perms [1,2,3,4] 02:48:08 Set out the bowl of candy and let them help themselves? 02:48:28 Sure, somebody might take the whole thing, but then you can claim to be all out. 02:51:02 i think i'm supposed to appear freindly or somesuch 02:52:23 I get full-size or even king-size candy bars, then beat them with them. 02:52:32 That is, beat the kids with the candy bars. 02:52:37 They're both scared and happy. 02:52:41 It's very amusing. 02:54:14 we don't even have any good candy to eat :( 02:59:26 Appear friendly by posting a sign instead of turning them away? :-P 03:03:19 we don't have any candy, take this brainfuck 03:06:32 I'll do that at college. :p 04:51:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:51:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:51:34 -!- zbrown has joined. 04:53:29 -!- zbrown has left (?). 05:03:49 -!- Axle has joined. 05:04:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:05:38 -!- Axle has quit (Client Quit). 06:30:09 o 06:30:40 hllaweoween 06:30:44 * oklopol goesosens -> 06:38:11 -!- immibis has joined. 07:25:21 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good sleepcycle"). 07:35:18 does anyone here have any experience with the GBA direct sound channels? 07:43:05 i try to play music with them but you can barely hear the music over the static. 07:51:10 -!- immibis has left (?). 07:56:51 -!- toBogE has joined. 07:57:11 --immibis-- toBogE now forwards /notices! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:06 --ihope-- really? 08:03:14 --immibis-- yes 08:03:43 --immibis-- and anything said on this channel is forwarded to me so i don't have to be in this channel. 08:04:06 -!- toBogE has left (?). 08:04:24 -!- immibis has joined. 08:23:54 -!- adrian has joined. 08:25:16 friends, i would like to get an advice from you, i want to learn a new programming lenguage to do comercial software, what do you recoomend? 08:26:26 c++? 08:34:52 -!- adrian has left (?). 08:57:04 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b). 09:10:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:24:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:50:15 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 09:51:50 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:05:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:44:10 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:12:11 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:33:59 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 12:52:57 -!- jix has joined. 13:00:47 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 13:01:23 -!- jix has joined. 13:22:19 -!- AnMaster has quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 13:25:30 -!- AnMaster has joined. 13:30:35 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:57:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:26:40 adrian: brainfuck, without a doubt 15:46:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:49:22 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:17:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:38 -!- RedDak has joined. 16:33:48 lol 16:34:09 HEY KAN BRAINFUCK ACCESS WIN32 API KTHX 16:37:28 what, do we have esocats now? 16:38:15 A long time ago, in a galaxy surprisingly nearby (here, in fact), somebody asked if Brainfuck can access the Win32 API. 16:41:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:15:24 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 17:20:00 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit (Client Quit). 17:24:17 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:27:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:27:25 -!- jix has joined. 18:03:38 ihope: i am going to write a game of life in your language :) 18:42:36 -!- bartw has quit (Success). 18:58:11 ihope: :) 19:21:58 ihope: :>> 19:34:14 -!- oerjan has quit ("Hopefully catching bus"). 20:00:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:08:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:27:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:40:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:20:16 ihope: how is redivider going? 21:20:40 It's going? 21:20:53 as far as progress on the spec goes 21:21:01 (mainly, including my parser call syntax ;)) 21:21:32 (also, including more high-level semantics - like "if a "main" parser is present, it is called with an empty string, otherwise an implementation-defined REPL is presented") 21:22:17 And general cleanupping? 21:22:25 Something like that 21:22:50 also 21:22:56 you do not DEFINE the semantics of regex's 21:23:09 you say "if the regex does not match" -- but what defines matching and non-matching? 21:23:39 also, "the characters .|*()[^-]$ might not represent themselves" -- when might they? Apart from that, the spec looks very good 21:23:52 Yeah, I'll probably want to actually define those. 21:24:23 Because, you know, there's regexps, and there's crazy regexps... and there's Perl regexps :) 21:24:37 Presumably, you want the former - simple, actually-are-regular regexes 21:25:07 Redivider's paradigm is very interesting though 21:25:11 Yeah. 21:25:35 Regexes that are regular expressions :-) 21:25:49 Fleshed out with a little more syntax and semantics, plus lots of stdlib (of course i'm not saying you should do this, it's an esolang :) but imagine) and it could be very interesting for actual programming 21:26:10 Yup. 21:48:26 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:04:35 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 22:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:44:50 -!- importantshock has joined. 2007-11-02: 00:07:32 -!- ihope_ has joined. 00:08:11 Hi RedDak, bsmntbom1dood, oerjan, importantshock, and PancakeHouse.. 00:08:20 What's up? 00:08:38 Just saying hi while ignoring the timestamps completely :/ 00:08:59 I'M HERE TOO :< 00:09:18 ihope: :) 00:15:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 00:15:30 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 00:16:01 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:39:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:10:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:31:08 Gasp! Who smiled at me? 01:33:20 ME 01:41:34 eeeew 01:41:54 haha 01:42:14 * bsmntbombdood molests ihope_ 01:42:24 ehird`: Any progress on pebble.pebble? 01:42:28 pikhq: nope =( 01:42:30 soon, soon 01:44:16 i'm going now 01:44:16 bye 01:44:43 this song goes duh duh duh, duh duh duh duh duh duh 01:45:05 with some trumpets! 01:45:23 i bet you can't guess what it is 01:45:50 Ritorna Vincitor from Aida? 01:46:12 ha ha i win 01:47:56 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:58:06 pikhq: I am extremely curious to see how the self-hosting pebble implementation fares 01:59:03 As am I. 02:01:33 it's gonna be hella big 02:04:59 yeah, no shit 02:05:09 this is more complex than lostkingdom. 02:05:25 I'd hazard a loose guess somewhere around 6mb of BF code 02:05:33 probably more when it bootstraps itself 02:05:48 Although I find that PEBBLE code manages to be a bit more efficient than BFBASIC. . . 02:06:02 (lower level, though) 02:06:17 6mb, lol 02:06:40 lostking is about 2.4mb, if I recall 02:06:51 what is that? 02:08:22 a text adventure game written in calamari's astounding BFBASIC 02:08:36 link 02:09:37 http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html 02:11:26 It inspired my little bit of a game in PEBBLE. 02:11:41 My engine kicks ass, but my game lacks. . . Anything. :p 02:13:46 if you want some help coming up with an actual story or something, I might be able to help 02:15:10 I may desire that some time when I have time. . . 02:15:30 Perhaps Christmas break, or Thanksgiving break, would be a good time to write & implement that. 02:15:56 i get like 12 days for thanksgiving! 02:16:24 I'll brainstorm some stuff over thanksgiving, but as a general policy I don't connect to the internet while I'm on vacation 02:16:44 I generally code something amazing in my self-induced isolation 03:00:18 -!- cpressey has joined. 03:00:37 * pikhq votes for scaring the hell out of cpressey 03:00:54 * oerjan refuses to scare a Great One 03:01:09 cpressey == Great One? 03:01:13 Proof, please. 03:01:38 http://catseye.tc/cpressey/languages.html 03:01:44 *Oh*. 03:01:59 * pikhq bows humbly 03:02:39 * pikhq makes the bow deeper. . . 03:02:42 ALPACA. :) 03:03:51 hm, ALPACA is not mentioned on the Chris Pressey page on the wiki. 03:04:50 thus fixed 03:05:06 thank you, oerjan 03:05:10 how's it going? 03:05:59 * pikhq goes back to wondering how ehird is going to pull off PEBBLE in PEBBLE. 03:06:08 well ihope_'s redivider and ehird's plan to self-host PEBBLE seems the current rages 03:06:23 and /mes sgt999g 03:06:51 i've been out of the loop for a while 03:07:12 Given that I've never seen you here before, and I've been here for over a year, I'd say so. ;) 03:07:51 hey, cpressey 03:08:27 i have a good excuse... i was busy finishing up my degree :) 03:08:31 hey lament! 03:08:35 i've seen cpressey do some wiki posting 03:08:55 cpressey: done studying? 03:08:55 Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p 03:09:20 i'm currently stuck in southern ontario, but i got a laptop and have been working on esolangs. 03:09:28 oh dear. cpressey, RUN! 03:09:43 LMAO 03:09:43 lament: yep, i don't officially graduate until december, but i've completed my requirements 03:10:02 oerjan: from what? 03:10:16 Hmm. . . Someone who has *not* heard of PEBBLE yet. :p 03:10:18 pikhq: btw, there doesn't seem to be an eso wiki entry for PEBBLE 03:10:24 oerjan: oh. 03:10:24 cpressey: Grr. 03:10:27 Need one. 03:10:31 cpressey: which university do you graduate from? 03:10:39 (too lazy to write one. . .) 03:10:39 lament: UBC. 03:10:45 oh, okay 03:10:48 lament: was that a trick question? :) 03:11:03 PEBBLE is a Brainfuck-targetting macro language I've devised. I'm kinda proud of it. 03:11:18 although i guess i had credits from before... but it's the university you finish at that counts 03:11:33 cpressey: i thought maybe you changed universities again, if you're in southern ontario 03:11:47 cpressey: welcome, great one 03:12:00 lament: ah, i see. no, i'm in ON for completely different reasons. 03:12:18 Now if we can get Gregor to talk, we can have a party of esolang designers. :p 03:12:22 hello, RodgerTheGreat 03:12:36 wouter showed up on here once too 03:12:39 (and our local dieties, for that matter) 03:12:47 but it was once, and it was while i was asleep 03:13:00 he used to be a regular 03:13:04 semi-regular 03:13:08 a long long time ago 03:13:13 before my time 03:13:28 Acme super-fiber drinks and shakes keep me regular! 03:13:43 maybe not regular, but he showed up more than once :D 03:13:53 I humbly offer this piece of syntax: [clear 1 disp 0 1 !fibo] :run [copy rollup add copy disp copy 144 nequ [!fibo] if] :fibo !run 03:14:28 I offer this syntax instead: source ^stdcons.bfm;@ temp1;@ temp2;stringout "Hello, world!\n" : temp1 temp2 03:15:32 wow, i have no gnarly syntax to offer in return 03:15:42 cpressey: have you looked at all the nonsense about the wolfram research prize? 03:15:50 we do not wish to trade, only for your blessings 03:17:01 cpressey: it seems there's a question of whether to allow infinite initial conditions, and if so then of what kind 03:17:21 Ask ais523 if he shows up again. 03:17:28 oh, you have my blessings, except that i feel like i'm in "life of brian" or something 03:17:38 LMAO 03:17:40 lament: hm. 03:17:47 haha 03:18:05 cpressey: like, a game-of-life turing machine emulator probably needs an infinite tape 03:18:11 infinite initial conditions seem fair enough, it was used for wolfram's r110 as well but there i think it was simply repeating in each direction 03:18:12 cpressey: so it seems fair to allow that 03:18:15 lament: yeah, i think i thought about that at some point in the summer 03:18:21 sweet, now I can add "BLESSED BY A GREAT ONE" to the Sprocket manual. 03:18:50 lament: but there need to be limits on what the infinite initial configuration is 03:18:52 oerjan: well, if you allow arbitrary infinite initial conditions, then the halting problem can be solved trivially 03:19:10 so it's a question of how much to allow 03:19:42 * pikhq adds "Blessed by 2 Great Ones" to the PEBBLE docs 03:19:45 i could accept something that can be recognized by a regular expression or maybe even a CFG 03:19:54 * pikhq calls oerjan a great one. :p 03:20:00 in that case smetana is turing-complete 03:20:42 you just need infinitely big programs, consisting mostly of identical, except for the numbers that are all shifted equal amount, chunks corresponding to "memory cells" 03:20:51 lament: we've been over this :) the problem is that a smetana program only has a finite number of instructions. i grant you that if there were an infinite number, it could be 03:21:07 lament: we seem to be on the same track 03:21:10 cpressey: if you allow infinite starting conditions, that's equivalent to allowing infinite programs 03:21:47 lament: ok, maybe we need to clarify something. i have no idea what the wolfram research thingy is, for example 03:22:03 so i might be speaking without knowing what we're talking about exactly 03:22:10 wolfram wanted a proof that some turing machine is universal 03:22:15 http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html 03:22:24 a guy from #esoteric (ais523) proved it 03:22:25 danke 03:22:42 oh, that one 03:22:47 hmm 03:23:35 it's an interesting question, how much complexity can you put in infinite conditions 03:23:50 clearly "the memory is initialized as an infinite stack of zeros" is perfectly fine :) 03:23:56 man, i did not need to be reminded about how fatuous wolfram is 03:24:04 lament: yes. 03:24:11 in fact 03:24:22 damn, i can't type quickly enough on this toy kbd 03:24:39 this is the same problem with wolfram's CA - i noticed it earlier 03:25:02 his CA is not TC because there's one thing that a TM can do that his CA can't - that is, halt 03:25:29 he's seriously distorting the definition of Turing-complete by claiming that rule 110 is TC 03:25:50 yeah, you need an observer smart enough to realize that it "halted" 03:25:56 together the system is obviously TC 03:26:09 the observer doesn't have to be very smart 03:26:15 lament: exactly, you need a halting predicate, and implementing that predicate *will take more states* if not more symbols 03:26:38 One could argue that having the cellular automaton stabilise is 'halting'. 03:26:44 bsmntbombdood: not very smart, but just smart enough to make his machine bigger than minksy's :) 03:27:09 pikhq: how do you know that it's stabilized, though? 03:27:12 heh 03:27:43 i'm sure there is some finite automaton to check each generation, isn't there? 03:28:04 actually, this ties in with something else i've been thinking about regarding TM's - they don't need infinte tapes, only expanding tapes. 03:28:39 The two are, for all intents and purposes, the same. . . 03:28:47 yes, and smetana doesn't need infinite programs, only expanding programs :) 03:28:53 in this case, you can think of an 'initial pattern' as being generated on the tape, every time you extend it 03:29:04 and for that you need some kind of mechanism. more states. 03:29:15 lament: ok, ok! :) 03:29:22 infinitely expanding tape, which is pretty much the same thing 03:29:38 pikhq, bsmntbombdood: yes. they're equivalent. 03:30:03 * pikhq comments on #esoteric being much more educational than high school. . . 03:30:13 it's mainly tradition that keeps the description of a TM starting off with "Well it has this infinte tape you see, and..." 03:30:26 True, true. 03:31:07 i mean there's good reasons for it to not have a limit 03:31:10 but anyway, yeah. 03:31:35 i agree that ther are definate problems with wolfram's 2,3 machine's "universality" 03:32:21 i would maybe be OK with it being called a kind of universality, but it's not the kind that's used in computabilty theory 03:33:06 in computability theory, people are concerned with decision problems, and semi-decision problems, and that stuff. if you can't halt, though, you can't decide anything. 03:33:54 i still think smetana is tc :D 03:34:10 lament: fine. for you, it's TC :) 03:34:24 i'll add that stipulation to the language definition :) 03:35:12 if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions 03:35:27 then the only reason _against_ it being TC is if we for some reason treat code differently from data 03:35:32 can a fsm be turing complete if it has infinite states? 03:35:43 bsmntbombdood: it can't be a fsm :) 03:35:49 lament: i'm actually perfectly OK with there being a tiny variation on smetana (like, to give it the ability to make new instructions) to let it be TC, but i'd sort of prefer that that variation have a diferent name 03:36:06 Tsmetana. 03:36:09 bsmntbombdood: since the states could include the whole content of a turing tape, yes 03:36:32 pikhq: how about "Etanasmay"? :) 03:36:33 um, i already named it Smetana+1 03:36:41 cpressey: but why? what's wrong with my logic? 03:36:47 5 years ago or so 03:37:14 lament: your logic... well, is smallfuck TC? 03:37:23 cpressey: if we allow infinitely repeating initial conditions for CA, might as well allow them for smetana. 03:37:43 oerjan: i must've missed that. 03:37:52 after which it can interpret regular brainfuck 03:37:52 was on the mailing list 03:38:27 lament: BUT... CA are generally defined to have *unbounded* playfields. SMETANA is not. like most programming language, the program is assumed to be of fixed size during execution. 03:38:33 cpressey: the only problem with that is "you can't have infinitely big programs", but how's that different from having infinite starting conditions for a CA? 03:38:48 oerjan: i unsubscribed to it ages ago. 03:39:10 i'm still subscribed, haven't received any mail in many years 03:39:45 wow, that busy huh? mailing lists were a lot more interesting in the earlier days of the internet than they are now 03:40:10 lament: grrrr :) 03:40:36 hm, there's been activity on the esolangs forum 03:40:36 lament: it's not that you can't have infinitely long programs, it's that SMETANA isn't defined for them. 03:41:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:41:11 lament: unlike most CA, which, being mathematical beasts, are a bit more flexible, i suppose you could say. 03:41:25 first new post starts with "I wish this forum was more active." :S 03:41:28 cpressey: so a language just like smetana but allowing infinitely long programs is 1) turing complete 2) capable of being interpreted by, for example, CA, since they allow the entire smetana program to be given as starting conditions 03:41:29 i haven't looked at the forum either 03:41:37 -!- importantshock has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:41:42 lament: 1) yes 2) yes 03:41:55 it's not usually very active. 03:42:15 lament: in fact, the programs can be infinitely long and blank in all but a finite number of instructions, i thin 03:42:33 smetana doesn't have blank instructions! 03:42:40 "blank" in SMETANA being something like, Step n. Go to step n. aybe? 03:42:41 "blank" doesn't even mean anything 03:43:16 cpressey: no, you need the ability to change infinitely many steps, which means there needs to be Swaps referring to them. 03:43:16 "blank" in the sense of "not useful" (unlike the starting configuration of a CA, where you might want an exquisite infinite pattern) 03:43:27 oerjan: hrm. ok, maybe. 03:44:01 haven't given it much thought, honestly, it's just that lament keeps bugging me about it :) 03:44:04 :D 03:44:33 alternatively, i went one step further with Moldau which really only needs Goto, but where labels are general data structures 03:45:28 oerjan: excellent. i really have been out of the loop 03:45:36 but i've been busy, too 03:45:55 well i never implemented either... as usual. 03:46:25 no wiki entry for Moldau either 03:46:45 it was only on the mailing list too 03:48:30 i've been on an abstact algebra kick lately 03:48:40 asbtRact algebra, even. 03:48:49 or... oh, forget it. 03:48:56 I've been on a calculus kick for the past year, myself. 03:49:00 * cpressey hates toy laptp keyboards 03:49:30 pikhq: managed to work any of it into an esolang? :) 03:49:43 cpressey: Nope. 03:49:56 Perhaps I should. 03:50:07 there's some stuff that steve smale (famous-pants mathematician) has done regarding computability in the reals that's kind of interesting 03:50:18 find a domain where integration is turing complte 03:50:29 penrose made some remark about how the mandelbrot set is uncomputable or something 03:50:54 * pikhq *must* now make an esolang that nobody else in his high school will understand 03:51:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:51:19 if anyone in your high school understands brainfuck, you've got a crazy ass highschool 03:51:23 pikhq: i found it interesting that taking derivatives is basicall mechanical but taking antiderivates is... well, not 03:51:35 I'm the guy that understands Brainfuck. :) 03:51:36 but otherwise i suck at calculus 03:51:43 we;;. yeah 03:51:51 cpressey: I'm quite good at calculus. 03:51:57 :D 03:52:08 what about lambda calculus 03:52:31 -!- sp3tt has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:52:32 I'm not much of a Knight of the Lambda Calculus. 03:52:37 (although I'd love to be one) 03:53:13 now there's a though. try to merge lambda calculus with calculus (real-analysis "regular ol'" calculus) 03:53:21 Mmmm. 03:53:22 i be willing to wager a few day's wages that i'm the only one at my high school that understands unlambda 03:53:33 bsmntbombdood: As would I. 03:53:37 I make $0.00 a day. 03:54:18 lament: are you going to graduate soon, as well? 03:54:18 me too, but even if i didn't :P 03:54:54 and does jeffrey johnston still hang out here? 03:56:02 i see GregorR and jix and mtve in the userlist, so there's some regulars from days gone by still here it seems 03:56:52 Oh hey 03:57:00 Surprise reappearance 03:57:12 GregorR: hello, hat-wearing moxie-guzzling fellow 03:57:24 * GregorR hasn't had Moxie in far too long :( :( :( 03:57:50 cpressey: yeah, done courses in december, graduating in may 03:58:15 lament: cool 03:59:36 -!- immibis has joined. 04:00:13 http://catseye.tc/projects/burro/ 04:00:30 that's what i've been doing lately. 04:00:42 actually, i've been doing it off and on for the past 2 years 04:01:06 followed by http://catseye.tc/projects/cabra/ 04:01:47 excuse the awkward presentation - i am no mathematician 04:01:54 ah, reversible programming 04:01:59 oerjan: sort of. 04:02:32 that was sort of an unforseen side-effect of making it a group 04:03:29 and burro programs don't really get reversed so much as they get... annihilated. it's not like they're "rewound", it's more like they never existed (the semantics cancel out to get NOP) 04:03:36 the next one is vaca? 04:03:56 lament: well, i was thinking "potro", but vaca is a good suggestion too 04:04:19 if there is a next one. i'm a bit burnt out on abstract algebra now 04:07:14 RodgerTheGreat: jeez, no wiki entry for Sprocket either?!? :) 04:07:23 sorry 04:08:12 RodgerTheGreat: is there a doc i can download somewhere? 04:08:35 I can pastebin a very brief command summary 04:08:50 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1193972891.html 04:09:17 RodgerTheGreat: ah... so that's the syntax you sent earlier... gotcha 04:09:30 yeah. :) 04:10:18 and dare I ask pikhq about PEBBLE? 04:14:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("rebooting to test an OS"). 04:17:19 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/esoteric.php 04:20:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:20:54 i see... interesting 04:22:43 quite a few languages added to the wiki, too. nice. 04:28:06 At least one of them is mine. 04:32:58 -!- immibis_ has joined. 04:42:12 * pikhq cheers, for Plof no longer has the thick-and-thin functions 04:45:33 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:52:57 -!- immibissClone has joined. 04:53:05 -!- immibissClone has changed nick to immibis. 04:53:07 -!- immibis_ has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:54:01 oerjan: I've got an idea for Agora. Pity you're not in it; otherwise, I'd ask you for assistance with it. . . 04:54:45 (define a partnership. That partnership's rules shall be that of a Nomic. Subnomic. :D) 04:55:07 you're in Agora? 04:55:14 Yes, I am. 04:55:22 And I notice that you won it once. 04:55:24 small the world is 04:55:48 * pikhq nods 04:56:01 I was interested in FRC once.. 04:56:03 the world is big, the internet is pretty small though 04:56:20 * Sgeo is on the Agora discussion thing for some reason 04:56:22 just a few hubs of cool stuff in the vast badlands of porn 04:56:28 * pikhq wonders why 04:56:31 (never has the word badlands been more appropriate) 04:56:46 NEW XKCD SOON! 04:56:51 :) 05:00:19 YAY 05:00:39 * pikhq wants someone to join him in the Subnomic Partnership. 05:00:45 :) XKCD! 05:01:08 When I have time (never) I'll look at Agora again 05:01:41 you are aware that FRC started as a Subnomic of Nomic World, and Agora rose from its ashes? 05:02:01 oerjan: Then let's be nostalgic. 05:02:43 no. 05:02:48 *shrug*\ 05:03:12 * pikhq should probably hold off on that, anyways. . . 05:03:28 Agora is currently swamped with 10,000 CFJs. . . 05:03:37 o_O 05:04:03 (I call for judgement on the following statement 10,000 times: This is Sparta.) 05:04:59 (worst movie ever?) 05:05:30 * pikhq kinda hopes that his proposal on removing all changes in game state caused by that is passed. . . 05:18:43 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:18:50 -!- immibis has joined. 05:19:51 -!- immibis_ has joined. 05:26:34 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 05:27:18 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:27:30 -!- jix has joined. 07:39:18 -!- clog has joined. 07:39:18 -!- clog has joined. 07:39:36 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Excess Flood). 07:40:15 -!- oerjan has quit ("Something"). 07:41:26 hmm 07:44:51 -!- i4nic8 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.8/2007100816]"). 07:47:36 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 08:21:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:21:23 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:35:46 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 08:42:25 -!- i4nic8 has joined. 08:43:41 -!- i4nic8 has quit (Client Quit). 09:50:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("gnight"). 10:55:57 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 11:02:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:07:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:13:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:18:57 -!- Keymaker has joined. 13:19:27 any chance chris pressey is here? 13:20:54 i guess not... 13:20:58 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 14:13:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:49:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:08:21 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:19:57 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:49:25 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:27:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:27:43 -!- jix has joined. 17:35:03 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 17:39:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:43:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:32:34 i 19:32:36 ... 19:32:37 i mean 19:32:37 o 19:33:22 u 19:33:49 u? :| 19:33:55 e 19:34:07 you're one weird fella! 19:34:26 hey, you started it 19:50:26 i said "o", you said "u", there's a great difference. 19:51:51 ah but first you said i 19:51:59 a very egoistic thing to say 19:52:21 grEGOrrtistic?! 19:52:35 o_O 19:52:47 is that how EgoBot was named? 19:53:01 ... 19:53:03 of course. 19:53:10 that's how all Ego* projects are named 19:53:17 ... did you not pick up on that? 19:54:08 i mean, from grEGOr 19:54:17 yeah 19:54:25 that's how all of Ego* projects were named 19:54:29 [e.g. EgoBF] 20:07:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:07:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:07:45 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:08:00 oerjan: you are right, i may have been a bit selfish there by accident 20:08:45 hmm, where's all the time slippin', it's like 20 min since i last spoke and i haven't really done anything... 20:09:06 ahtiuhariuthkjghlkdfhgkjdafghkadhg stupid windows and stupid router and stupid firewall 20:09:33 ahtiuhari is very finnishish 20:09:38 sdfsdfsdffhkfjhafkhsldf 20:09:51 Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 84.65.88.163:8080. 20:09:52 WELL WHY NOT 20:09:54 oklopol: my sentiment exactly 20:10:03 ahti is like the god of sea or something, uhari could be a slang way to say uhkalaukaus or something 20:10:10 not that uhkalaukaus would mean anything 20:10:11 rtrklrktkrlktrsklrtrlt is very czech 20:10:15 (thread shot) 20:10:17 *threat 20:10:53 ok, list of what i've done 20:10:54 set up DMZ 20:11:02 disabled router firewall + personal firewall 20:11:07 and yet 20:11:13 it STILL won't load the page 20:14:21 why is this not working??? 20:16:04 you want to visit _that_ page? 20:16:12 you evil, evil man 20:16:55 what did the poor squirrels do to you? 20:17:08 ... 20:17:14 my local webserver's page. 20:17:20 ah. 20:17:32 i can access it from 127.0.0.1 20:17:36 just not from the outside world 20:17:41 it never even hits my personal firewall 20:18:22 me neither. 20:18:41 helpful 20:18:53 squirrel porn is awesome 20:19:44 -!- bartw has joined. 20:21:47 ... i had it bound to localhost 20:21:49 STUPID STUPID STUPID 20:21:55 hi bartw 20:22:40 ellow 20:23:22 Of course predictably it still doesn't work :| 20:23:56 right, on with the compiler building 20:24:45 Shieldsup says the port is stealth :| 20:26:02 GRRRRRRRRR 20:27:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:27:45 ahahahaha 20:27:49 i forgot to change the port in my firewall 20:31:49 hmz 20:31:55 argh 20:31:58 a.x() 20:32:17 if a.x is a valid expression returning a function pointer 20:32:29 does that mean the overloading isn't possible 20:32:59 no 20:33:13 a.x()() 20:33:38 a.x()()() 20:34:19 DISCLAIMER: Gregor doesn't have a clue WTF you're talkinga bout :) 20:34:23 *talking about 20:34:33 obviously 20:38:22 i'm assuming bartw asked whether it's possible to define a language where a.x can have multiple definitions 20:38:35 i'm pretty sure it's possible 20:39:23 several languages have the concept of method overloading, disambiguated by parameter count and type 20:39:48 o 20:39:50 but if you start to juggle with functionpointers, hwo do you disabiguate 20:39:50 but this isn't the channel for this it seems 20:40:33 sure it is 20:40:35 Depends on how you define your overloading. 20:40:47 Is overloading name -> many functions or function -> many effects 20:41:10 in this case, 1 name, several functions 20:41:14 bartw: depends on call semantics... it's trivial to convert overloading into pattern amtching. 20:41:17 *matching 20:42:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:42:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:05:14 -!- cpressey has joined. 21:05:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:05:33 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:31:30 -!- oerjan has quit ("Supper"). 21:33:39 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:42:02 bye everyone 21:42:10 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 21:53:52 -!- cpressey has joined. 22:22:12 -!- cpressey has left (?). 23:10:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:11:41 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:25:08 prize for making the shortest equivelant to +++++++++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<<<<-] 23:25:43 [Hello interpreter]!H 23:26:03 bsmntbombdood: WE ARE NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK! 23:26:17 that is, put [16*1, 16*2, 16*3, 16*4, 16*5, 16*6, 16*7, 16*8] in the tape 23:26:27 it's not my homework :( 23:26:29 oh 23:26:30 hm 23:26:43 if it were, i'd be totally jealous 23:26:55 [Put16TimesNForNinARangeFrom1to8OnTape Interpreter] 23:28:55 ... 23:29:22 when in doubt, invent a language that can do it 23:29:40 hmm i wonder if it would be shorter to put [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] on the tape and map *16 across it 23:29:52 try it 23:30:06 maybe try not having 16 +s 23:31:09 i dunno how 23:31:19 BF constants page, high-ho 23:31:24 not that 23:38:42 i basically want the shortest code to load a number and all/some of its factors 23:43:27 wapr has been out for ages now and nobody's written anything in it ;P 23:44:50 (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wapr, the stuff there is stack comments, not argument syntax) 23:44:56 it is most likely turing complete 23:44:58 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("getting off, i will pack this up soon"). 23:45:25 What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most? 23:45:38 Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers. 23:46:25 isnt' that the busy beaver problem 23:46:25 :P 23:46:48 Yes! 23:46:53 hah 23:47:21 it's good to know i recognize is 23:47:24 *it 23:49:04 My entry: +++[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->+++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[->++<]>[..-] 23:49:24 heh. 23:49:36 it's too long 23:49:39 5 char would be better 23:49:44 bsmntbombdood: (10:55:55 PM) ihope_: What about the 100-character BF program that outputs the most? 23:49:44 (10:56:08 PM) ihope_: Tape infinite both ways, cells hold integers. 23:49:58 what? 23:50:09 that was ihope_'s entry to the above 23:50:14 i know... 23:50:17 oh 23:50:17 :| 23:50:18 ok 23:50:20 oh 23:50:21 i get it now 23:50:22 ok 23:50:25 5 char competition 23:50:52 my entry: +[..] 23:51:01 infinite output, i win 23:51:04 it has to halt 23:51:26 bah 23:51:29 that's impossible then 23:51:35 basically the max you can get is +[.+] 23:51:35 impossible? 23:51:47 and cells aren't wrapping... 23:52:04 damnit 23:52:05 ok 23:52:10 show me YOUR 5 char entry 23:54:23 ;) 23:56:25 didn't think so,h eh 23:57:13 my 5 char entry is ..... 23:57:37 how about 8 chars 23:57:57 let's find the lowest number where the number of prints is greater than the length 23:58:05 +[...++] 23:58:07 hm 23:58:10 doesn't halt 23:58:13 bsmntbombdood: heh 23:58:19 bsmntbombdood: that might be hard 23:58:22 ihope_ might do it though 23:58:30 considering he started this mess ;) 2007-11-03: 00:03:20 someone come up with a run length encoding of brainfuck 00:03:24 that's still brainfuck 00:03:35 ie a brainfuck->brainfuck transformation 00:03:48 isn't that er, impossible 00:03:54 dunno 00:04:03 you might have to embed an interpreter 00:04:12 what would be cool is just a BF->BF compiler 00:04:19 i.e. implementing it like you would a BF->C compiler 00:04:36 you could call it pfsdbfs (Program For Slowing Down Brainfuck Sources) 00:04:50 it's been done 00:04:55 seriously? 00:04:56 ohmigawd 00:04:59 show me 00:05:18 maybe 00:05:43 DOOO EEET 00:06:02 you can just do ${code to load program onto tape}${bf-in-bf interpreter} 00:06:15 no, that's not what i mean 00:06:21 yes it is 00:06:26 that's like writing a bf->c program that does "bf("...")" 00:06:30 and an implementation of bf 00:06:37 yeah 00:06:46 which isn't what i mean 00:06:56 yes it is 00:07:04 no it isn't, stop pretending you know what my mind is thinking 00:07:46 here's a compiler: sed 's/x/x/' 00:07:57 sigh 00:08:11 you can't compile x->x without some restrictions on the target language 00:08:28 x->x' where x' is restricted x 00:08:35 BF->BF, without a 1-1 translation or simple variant thereof, and without embedding an interpreter 00:08:52 all bf compilers are 1-1 translations 00:09:04 like, use GregorR's tape/stack thingy (i.e. E1E1E1 where E is an element) for the tape 00:09:15 it's very simple what i'm explaining 00:09:24 i know what you mean 00:09:33 so you're just arguing for the sake 00:09:37 no 00:09:58 whatever 00:10:09 write a bf->unlambda and an unlambda->bf 00:10:14 there you have it 00:10:21 sigh 00:10:29 what? 00:10:41 that would do it 00:11:22 in an incredibly convoluted fashion 00:11:23 :P 00:11:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:12:27 in an incredibly increasing code size fashion 00:12:30 which is what you want 00:12:48 i kind of meant something simple 00:12:49 i mean 00:12:53 take the BF->C paradigm 00:12:57 and apply it but replacing C with BF 00:13:08 bf->c is nothing, 1-1 00:13:40 actually 00:13:47 GregorR: how good is c2bf? 00:13:53 bsmntbombdood: it is NOT 1 to 1 00:13:57 because you allocate an array on the stack 00:14:02 char bf[3424234] 00:14:07 yes it is 00:14:12 the idea is to do that, in BF 00:14:21 bsmntbombdood: Not as bad as getting shot, not as good as fine champagne. 00:15:01 can it compile the output of a bc->c compiler? 00:15:29 that's not really the same but ok :P 00:15:34 arrays, pointer manipulation, i/o? 00:15:36 GregorR: how does bf2c handle libs? 00:15:44 c2bf 00:15:52 yes yes 00:15:55 what does it do with, e.g. malloc? 00:16:02 ... what about if you tried to use sockets? you know. 00:16:12 It has no libc :P 00:16:29 so can you not malloc? how does printf work? 00:16:42 printf can be implemented in C 00:16:59 given write_char or somesuch 00:17:06 and varargs :P 00:17:07 is there a write_char? :) 00:17:08 presumably 00:17:15 There is a putchar. 00:17:22 what about malloc 00:17:23 It's something like: asm("."); :P 00:17:25 -!- cpressey has joined. 00:17:28 is there a way to do tape manipulation? 00:17:32 if so i could implement malloc i guess 00:17:40 actually 00:17:46 it'd be a lot easier if you could access the tape as an infinite pointer 00:17:48 well 00:17:48 given sbrk you can implement malloc in C 00:17:54 the space of tape not being used by c2bf 00:17:58 i.e. no-mans-land 00:18:08 because, a basic allocator is really simple of course 00:18:23 * GregorR reappears. 00:18:43 It divides the tape using that whatsisname's hotel rooms problem. 00:18:50 (Infinite hotel rooms, all full, add more people) 00:19:11 malloc without free: int top = 0; void *malloc(int size) { void *res = no_mans_land[top]; top += size; return res; } 00:19:17 with free requires a bit more, but meh 00:19:30 assuming no_mans_land is c2bf's no-mans-land (i.e. tape not used for c2bf stuff) 00:19:38 you don't need free when compiling to bf... 00:19:49 * oerjan wonders if there are any bf-hosted languages on at least PEBBLE's level, or if it will be the first when ehird` is finished... 00:20:04 oerjan: bf hosted = compiler in BF? 00:20:05 if so, i doubt it 00:20:11 pebble.bfm will probably be the first 00:20:12 compiler + result 00:20:40 i.e. you need essentially nothing more than a bf interpreter to use it 00:21:49 i guess i mean, the compiler is self-hosting + compiles to bf 00:22:32 GregorR: is there a no_mans_land? :) 00:23:02 Sort of ... not really. 00:23:17 How could I get one? :P 00:23:19 Well, I mean 00:23:25 how can I get some unused space in c2bf? 00:23:27 or rather 00:23:28 any space 00:23:31 that isn't reserved for stack etc 00:23:39 Once a libc is implemented, you'd just up the sbrk. 00:23:45 In short: malloc. 00:23:54 Right now, you don't, C2BF is far from far from far from complete :P 00:24:20 So right now any memory allocation is impossible in c2bf 00:24:22 Right? 00:24:38 Wrong, but you'd have to roll-your-own sbrk. 00:24:47 Right now, the heap is your no-mans-land :P 00:24:53 It's just reserved for the heap in the future. 00:24:54 Ok. 00:24:57 Bah 00:24:58 Ok :P 00:25:04 So, nothing uses the heap right now. correct? 00:25:12 Correct. 00:25:24 Can I programmatically access it? 00:25:26 That is, as a pointer 00:26:17 i.e. can you write c2bf malloc in the C part? 00:26:22 oerjan: obviously 00:26:26 Yes. 00:26:26 but can you, GregorR? :) 00:26:28 Woot 00:26:28 how 00:26:42 You don't want to hear this, it's so hacky X-D 00:26:45 OK, here 'tis: 00:26:57 I just want to know how to get at the heap, with c2bf 00:26:57 :) 00:27:05 Traditional (correct) C: Heap is in one place, stack is in another. 00:27:16 c2bf... intertwined? 00:27:17 C2BF: Heap and stack are in the same place, all pointer math is modulo-2. 00:27:23 Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 00:27:31 SO, the heap is 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc. 00:27:33 Ok, while I'm having a seizure, tell me how to programmatically mess with the heap :P 00:27:35 Ahh 00:27:36 Ok 00:27:41 So just cast 'em to a pointer? 00:27:57 So (void *)5 = third heap entry? 00:27:59 Yeah - but no guarantees it'll actually work, I don't really remember how complete C2BF is :P 00:28:58 void *top = (void *)0; void *malloc(int amount) { void *ptr = top; top += amount*2; return ptr; } 00:29:01 And why are you so interested in this? 00:29:21 GregorR: Run bf2c translator on brainfuck code, use c2bf to get significantly larger, slower program 00:29:27 Remember what I said? All pointer math is modulo-2. 00:29:43 Oh. 00:29:51 Ok, that makes things harder 00:29:52 :P 00:29:53 It's like how: int *a = &foo; a += 1; // a is increased by (e.g.) 4 00:30:00 No, it makes things easier. 00:30:03 Oh 00:30:07 I just need top += amount then 00:30:12 Yuh 00:30:20 i don't think modulo-2 is the right word 00:30:22 void *top = (void *)0; void *malloc(int amount) { void *ptr = top; top += amount; return ptr; } 00:30:27 oerjan: yeah, i got confused by that 00:30:37 GregorR: does c2bf work in cygwin? 00:30:37 Oh, it isn't, hahah X-D 00:30:45 ehird`: Idonno, probably? 00:30:53 modulo-2 would mean there are two cells of memory :P 00:30:59 indeed 00:31:12 So 00:31:15 svn.sourceforge.net is down 00:31:17 Who wants to give me c2bf 00:31:35 I don't think I even have a copy on my home computer :P 00:31:49 Who else wants to :P 00:32:08 it's not in the file archive? 00:32:18 No, there are no releases. 00:33:08 And, it could use a rewrite - the method by which I did this nasty stack/heap trick needs to be replaced :) 00:33:28 I JUST WANT A TAR :( 00:33:37 I JUST WANT TO TAR AND FEATHER YOU 00:35:24 GregorR: if stack and heap are in the same place, why not just allocate (chunks of) the stack, on the heap? 00:35:37 makes push and pop a bit more involved i suppose 00:35:49 anyone? :( 00:36:01 Because then you would have either a fixed stack size, or have to maintain multiple stacks >_> 00:36:11 * cpressey gives ehird` Jeffry's BASIC-to-Brainfuck compiler instead 00:36:33 GregorR: I was thinking, store it in chunks, with the chunks linked together... when you run out of stack space in one chunk, allocate another 00:36:34 but i want c2bf 00:36:34 :( 00:39:12 cpressey: Hence multiple stacks. 00:39:38 GregorR: ok -- i thought you meant multiple seperate stacks 00:39:54 instead of what i would call just one stack, broken up :) 00:39:59 Oh, no, just multiple "physical" stacks for one "virtual" stack :) 00:40:01 :| 00:40:30 wow, c2bf is hex for 48955 00:40:55 so? 00:41:05 anyone have c2bf? 00:41:09 Wow, that's ... a number with no real significance :P 00:41:19 ehird`: I do believe you'll find that nobody has it :) 00:41:24 GregorR: why =( 00:41:29 bsmntbombdood: i did a web search for c2bf and got hex values :) 00:41:33 ehird`: Because it's old and crap? :P 00:41:40 but it's fun 00:41:58 Sure, but until this day nobody has mentioned it for months and months and months :P 00:42:05 Therefore I'm not particularly inclined to finish it. 00:42:26 GregorR: finish it! 00:42:38 FINISH YOUR FACE 00:42:39 (burn) 00:42:42 i've always found c2bf interesting 00:42:45 i just want a copy 00:42:48 :P 00:42:54 * cpressey wants a hs2bf 00:43:06 that will NEVER happen 00:43:08 i guarantee it 00:43:14 there's already hs2c 00:43:14 if that ever happens, i will pay you £100 00:43:18 Probably easier to do hs2c and c2buf :) 00:43:19 bsmntbombdood: Fuck. 00:43:23 Erm, c2bf ... 00:43:25 so when GregorR finishes c2bf... 00:43:27 Uh, I was just joking <.< 00:43:32 Hashahaha 00:43:37 Damn it, typos X_X 00:53:32 doing a garbage collected language with lots of pointer indirection in bf will _not_ be pretty. 00:54:04 oerjan: like said above there's a hs2c 00:54:20 but beh 00:54:22 i want c2bf 01:00:27 oerjan: you don't _have_ to implement garbage collection 01:02:10 running haskell without garbage collection will _not_ be pretty, either. 01:02:43 who cares, it's in brainfuck anyway 01:04:28 "The simplest garbage collector is no garbage collector" :P 01:08:02 * cpressey is trying to implement a garbage collector in 6502 asm on the C64 01:09:23 one thing i have always wanted to do is build a system from scratch 01:09:32 homebrew a CPU and put some ram there 01:09:37 PNEUMATIC 01:09:39 get an instruction set working 01:09:46 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 01:09:46 implement some form of an OS 01:09:52 add a programming language 01:09:56 One thing I've always wanted to do but don't have the skills or resources is to make a pneumatic CPU :) 01:10:02 put a simple video card in, attach it to a monitor 01:10:09 make keyboard+mouse work 01:10:18 invent new gui paradigm, code to work on OS with video card in programming language 01:10:21 write software 01:10:27 voila, system from nil 01:10:29 well, nearly nil 01:10:45 You forgot about forging the atoms from the ether. 01:10:53 heh 01:10:58 i'll start at the cpu level i think 01:10:59 but, that would be fun 01:11:03 -!- i4nic8 has joined. 01:11:21 i wanted to build a brainfuck CPU out of TTL chips once 01:11:29 I mean, you might even get interesting results 01:11:37 i also wanted to build an OISC CPU out of discrete transistors 01:11:38 howzit 01:11:46 A fun experiment would be to connect it to the net and use it and only it for e.g. a month 01:11:57 try and have no preconceptions about what software should be like 01:12:07 i.e. don't mimic anything, just let it work how you think it should intuitively 01:12:23 -!- ihope has joined. 01:12:37 also, using a computer with a whole stack - cpu, isa, proglang&os, gui, software - that you made yourself, would be pretty 1337 :P 01:13:15 There's a limit to how much one can make oneself. 01:13:20 Are ICs allowed? 01:13:25 ICs being? 01:13:28 sorry, i'm n00b :P 01:13:34 Integrated circuits. 01:14:01 I dunno, whatever most homebrew CPUs are 01:14:11 valves 01:14:22 if you could safely say every part of it was made by you (transisitors, etc withstanding) then i guess it'd be ok :P 01:14:24 Again, pneumatic CPU = whoot ^^ 01:14:34 Yay, fluidics. 01:14:56 I just think watching a pneumatic CPU extremely-slowly calculate 1+1 would be awesome. 01:15:26 Extremely slowly? Just blow into it and the result blows out the other end. 01:15:38 One thing I imagine would emerge from a system like I describe 01:15:40 I mean a real CPU - programmable. 01:15:40 is extreme mouse-use 01:15:44 Oh. 01:15:54 mice actually tend to come out /faster/ than keyboards, in practice, when the interface is good 01:15:59 contrary to actually most research 01:16:10 You know, I think I'm comfortable just making the software myself. 01:16:16 ;) 01:16:19 ehird`: Touchscreen > both 01:16:31 GregorR: OK let's assume this custom computer has a budget 01:16:34 A very small budget 01:16:36 Hahaha 01:16:45 Let's assume that everything should be as low powered as possible while still producing a useful machine 01:16:49 I would just try to build LCARS :P 01:17:00 (of course every part of current computers are bloated so you can't really use their specs to compare:P) 01:17:14 The more I use a tablet PC, the more I realize that LCARS is the best UI imaginable. 01:17:44 LCARS? 01:17:46 * cpressey wants to know whatever happened to light pens 01:17:56 I might try that from-scratch computer 01:17:56 Is that a type of brain interface? 01:17:59 PROBLEM: I suck at everything 01:18:01 ihope: LCARS is the computer system on Star Trek (>NG) 01:18:18 I could never make a cpu, I would probably stumble designing an ISA, I would have much trouble programming it - especially a full OS 01:18:19 etc :P 01:19:15 Don't make a CPU; use a really cheap one. 01:19:25 No 01:19:27 That's not from scratch 01:19:28 :P 01:19:39 I mean, using an external CPU you get locked into an ISA etc 01:19:48 That forces you into a certain other-persons model of thinking 01:19:52 That's against the spirit of the idea 01:19:54 I see. 01:20:05 Make it be cellular automata, then! 01:20:13 xD no 01:20:45 No? 01:21:00 Quit ridiculing my greatest idea! :-P 01:21:05 :P 01:24:39 oh snap someone wrote a quine for my esolang rofl 01:25:00 Which esolang is that? 01:25:04 http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/programs/phawn/kquine.phn 01:25:07 phawn 01:25:24 wow 01:25:35 somebody likes your language apparently 01:25:45 cool 01:25:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/PHAWN 01:25:57 ahh keymaker 01:26:13 is he a regular on the wiki? 01:26:29 or, enjoys writing quines? 01:26:30 he just writes an awful lot of quines etc 01:26:54 lol 01:27:32 he helped me fix the interpreter too 01:32:18 So 01:32:26 Who thinks I should try that from-scratch idea? ;) 01:33:11 the brainfuck cpu? 01:33:18 naw 01:34:27 which one? 01:34:52 you weren't in here for it 01:35:49 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 01:37:50 ic 01:40:02 anyone have comments? ;) 01:42:03 ehird`: "cheap" and "simple" and "low-power" and "non-preconceived idea of an isa" are conflicting requirements 01:42:15 although i guess you didn't say "simple" 01:42:47 cpressey: ;) 01:42:55 if cheap, i'd go with a Z80 cpu and maybe wire it up after i've had a few, to make it interesting 01:43:44 megh 01:43:45 anyway 01:43:48 i'm going now 01:43:50 if non-preconceived... use a FPGA or discrete ICs... depending on how much soldering you want to do 01:43:52 see you all tomorrow :) 01:43:55 ok, cya ehird` 01:43:59 and porbably fpga 01:44:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 01:44:48 how to get rid of all this <<<<<<.>>>>>> 01:45:06 ounch a child 01:45:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:46:33 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit. 01:47:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:47:13 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:48:12 -!- i4nic8 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]"). 02:04:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:57:21 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:24:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:55:26 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:42:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:28:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:38:30 Here's a simple program that outputs 2^(2^65536) bytes. Add another '+' to the start and it will output 2^(2^(2^65536)) bytes, and so on. 08:38:44 +++++++[>>+<[>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<<-]>[<+>-]<<-]>[.-] 08:41:07 (Naturally, this assumes integer cells as in ihope's challenge. And it's way too tidy to be the best answer for this length.) 08:59:19 haha 09:42:53 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 09:58:11 -!- bartw has quit. 10:04:30 -!- bartw has joined. 10:45:34 Hey bsmnt. >>>>>>>>>++++++++[<[++<]++[>]<-]<[<]>[[<++++++++>-]>] 10:48:13 bsmntbombdood and depending on what context you need it in, you may be able to lose the >>>>>>>>> and/or the <[<] part. 11:10:51 -!- bartw has left (?). 11:42:56 -!- jix has joined. 12:03:12 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:13:19 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:23:06 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has joined. 13:07:48 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:36:21 -!- ihope_ has joined. 13:36:36 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 13:38:12 -!- ihope has quit (Client Quit). 14:05:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:20:37 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:20:55 ooh, ololobot 14:20:58 oklopol: anything changed with it? 14:31:41 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:42:52 -!- ihope has joined. 15:01:37 ehird`: not really. 15:01:45 >>> numbda "o\no" 15:01:46 o\no 15:01:54 i added that, but it's on the other ololobot 15:01:55 defmacro? :P 15:01:55 :) 15:02:03 i mean, added multiple lines 15:02:10 other ololobot? 15:02:21 on my other comp, the real ololobot 15:02:33 this one is just an old version i opened since you asked 15:03:06 hahah 15:57:05 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:29:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:49:58 I'm implementing a GC in Python, am I crazy? 16:50:09 (it's for something similar to oklopol's lisp, but more complete :)) 16:51:44 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 17:15:26 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 17:24:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:26:14 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:27:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 17:27:54 -!- jix has joined. 17:32:16 oklopol: hey, how do i set values in scope with olololisp 17:32:20 >>> sch (set a 1) 17:32:23 >>> a 17:32:37 huh? 17:32:52 >>> sch (define a 1) 17:32:53 () 17:32:55 >>> sch a 17:32:56 1 17:32:59 ? 17:33:00 define is global 17:33:02 no? 17:33:07 ya 17:33:12 what about local 17:33:13 well... 17:33:13 hmm 17:33:31 (set a 1) would set a in the very topmost scope 17:33:35 >>> sch ((lambda () (define a 1))) 17:33:36 () 17:33:36 i.e. local var 17:33:40 like that. 17:33:45 >>> sch a 17:33:45 1 17:33:49 O RLY 17:33:50 >>> sch ((lambda () (define a 4))) 17:33:51 () 17:33:52 >>> sch a 17:33:53 1 17:33:54 ah 17:33:55 ok 17:33:56 thanks :) 17:34:19 isn't it always like that? 17:34:35 >>> sch (define test (lambda () (define test2 (lambda () x)) (define x 2) (test2))) 17:34:36 () 17:34:40 >>> sch (test) 17:34:41 () 17:34:51 i'm... pretty sure that's not right 17:34:55 it should give a variable definition error 17:34:58 since in the scope x is not defined 17:35:07 hmm 17:35:09 >>> sch drhg 17:35:10 None 17:38:03 -!- ttm has quit ("Seeeeeya"). 17:38:10 -!- ttm has joined. 17:38:31 phew 17:38:33 i just implemented my lisp 17:38:40 well, all of the types 17:38:44 now i need to do some minimal eval stuff 17:38:48 and the stdlib 17:40:22 fast 17:41:07 ;) 17:41:19 technically, i still need to do the gc 17:41:24 but i'm leaving that for later 17:41:40 (i've stopped python collecting itself by pushing every object to an array called "heap" :D) 17:41:41 what do you use gc for 17:41:48 myeah 17:41:49 garbage collecting 17:41:52 :P 17:42:24 put it on 17:42:41 nah 17:42:47 i need to implement: 17:42:51 1. some simple scoping functions 17:42:57 2. parsing 17:43:05 3. the actual functions - right now you can't actually do anything, but all the code is there 17:43:12 won't take long 17:43:15 scoping was the only part that took time in my implementation 17:43:25 i've actually done the lexical scoping for functions 17:43:54 yar 17:43:56 my LFunc class is ridiculously simple 17:43:57 http://rafb.net/p/LJGsOA14.html 17:45:15 Damnit! 17:45:18 I forgot to make LString 17:45:52 -!- ttm has changed nick to dbc. 17:48:41 OK! All done apart from parsing and stdlib (stdlib includes e.g. lambda ;)) 17:50:28 >>> sch (1 . 2) 17:50:29 not-callable(1) 17:50:37 you don't support (x . y) syntax? 17:50:37 good 17:50:39 i don't have to, then 17:50:40 ;) 17:51:04 heh 18:04:17 back 18:05:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:07:23 now i'm doing the parser 18:09:59 >>> sch "lollerburger" 18:10:00 None 18:10:03 hm 18:10:06 no string parsing oklopol? 18:13:27 nope :) 18:13:40 >>> numbda "has it" 18:13:40 has it 18:14:04 numbda isn't lisp though, no? 18:14:08 >>> numbda (lambda (x) x) 18:14:09 error:syntax:multiple-adjacent-objokens 18:14:30 >>> numbda {A->A} 18:14:30 lazy:[apply opr:-> to id:A(0) and id:A(0)] 18:14:36 >>> numbda {A->A}!3 18:14:36 num:3 18:15:03 hmm 18:15:05 numbda == oklotalk? 18:15:12 no 18:15:26 although some of it is legal oklotalk. 18:15:35 since oklotalk is pretty flexible 18:16:02 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:19:07 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. <<< what's "being on the face of the deep"? 18:19:40 there is something deep, and over it there's darkness? 18:20:05 the bible isn't meant to make sense 18:20:09 :P 18:22:31 hmm 18:22:32 bugs in parser 18:22:35 ((lambda (x) x) 2) is not parsing 18:23:00 ah i see 18:24:09 hehe, my parser recurses like hell 18:26:39 hah 18:26:39 return LCons(parse(string), parse_list(string)) 18:26:49 parse* modify string, so that is actually right 18:26:49 :) 18:36:14 ( . ( . NIL)) 18:36:17 not meant to happen! 18:39:59 dbc: nice 18:42:54 >>> sch -5 18:42:55 -5 18:42:58 >>> sch (+ -5 1) 18:42:58 -4 18:43:08 >>> sch 5.4 18:43:09 None 18:43:15 i should probably handle - 18:46:54 oklopol: :D it's almost done! 18:47:00 then i can write some functions... 18:47:00 ... like lambda... 18:47:42 lambda isn't a function 18:48:38 it is in mine :) 18:48:57 special forms are just functions with evalargs=false 18:51:08 loooool 18:51:08 error, not callable: error, not callable: error, unbound symbol: lambda 18:52:48 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:56:29 woot 18:56:33 oklopol: parser, evaller, works :) 18:56:35 now for stdlib 18:59:21 i actually realized you weren't nearly as fast as i thought 18:59:31 time is slipping again 18:59:50 i think i'll translate genesis to my language today 19:00:12 my interp is currently 324 lines 19:00:12 :D 19:02:43 is that a lot or a little 19:02:44 ? 19:03:19 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:06:06 dunno 19:06:06 :P 19:06:19 its quite a mess 19:07:58 yay, writing lambda! 19:08:58 my code for defining a function written in Python looks like some kind of c calling interface 19:08:59 scope[0][SymbolF("lambda")] = LFunc(p_lambda, (-1, ""), False) 19:14:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:17:56 woot!! 19:18:00 oklopol: it works! :) 19:18:47 oklopol: http://rafb.net/p/ijMepf32.html 19:19:01 time for a gc 19:19:03 methinks 19:19:22 * oklopol want in bot it. 19:19:35 all it has right now is lambda :P 19:19:36 but ok 19:19:42 * ehird` hooks up quick irc bot 19:19:47 what's the IRC message syntax again? 19:19:48 it's: 19:19:59 PRIVMSG #channel :sadoijfoidjhitr eotihjerg iajergoi 19:20:05 orrr whutta ya mean? 19:20:09 You have stuff in front of it too 19:20:10 i think 19:20:15 nope 19:20:16 ioh 19:20:17 :asdfsdf PRIVMSG #channel :adbsad 19:20:20 yeah 19:20:21 well yeah, when you receive 19:20:21 you do 19:20:31 it's PRIVMSG #channel :asdfiugh aeuhg 19:20:38 is teh hostmasker 19:25:36 almost done with the bot oklopol 19:29:15 oklopol: is there a way to read one line from a socket? :| 19:33:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:37:01 ok 19:37:03 here he comes 19:37:06 > code 19:37:08 -!- lithp has joined. 19:37:08 to eval lisp code 19:37:16 arg 19:37:18 registered 19:37:19 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:37:25 -!- ehird` has changed nick to lithpbot. 19:38:06 ok 19:38:08 here he comes 19:38:14 -!- lithp has joined. 19:38:15 oklopol: > code means "eval code" 19:38:17 > 2 19:38:23 allow me to rephrase 19:38:25 it SHOULD mean that 19:38:36 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:38:59 ok 19:39:04 heh 19:39:07 -!- lithp has joined. 19:39:07 -!- lithpbot has changed nick to ehird`. 19:39:08 -!- lithp has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:39:10 baah 19:39:10 ok 19:39:12 #esoteric-blah 19:39:12 ;P 19:39:15 :D 19:39:32 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:40:02 surry 19:40:30 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:40:41 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:41:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:41:30 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:41:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:42:04 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:42:39 -!- ehird` has changed nick to lithpbo1. 19:42:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:42:44 -!- lithpbo1 has changed nick to lithpbot. 19:43:22 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:43:33 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 19:43:53 -!- lithpbot has changed nick to ehird`. 19:44:26 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:44:48 oklopol: It's done! :D #esoteric-blah 19:44:57 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:46:46 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:46:59 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:47:05 Oops. 19:47:09 quitspam :P 19:47:10 -!- lithpbot has joined. 19:47:14 that's all over now 19:47:15 it works 19:47:55 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:04:33 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:04:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:05:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:05:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:06:03 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:06:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:07:12 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:07:35 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:08:00 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 20:08:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:08:43 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:08:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:09:25 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:09:30 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:10:03 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:10:54 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:11:05 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:11:29 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:11:52 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:13:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:14:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:14:44 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:15:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:16:42 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:16:45 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:17:49 darn i was just going to test (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3)) 20:18:49 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:18:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:19:39 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:19:49 (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3)) 20:19:53 you need > code 20:19:54 not code 20:20:06 > (LITHT (PLUTH 2 2) (TIMETH 3 3)) 20:20:06 error, unbound symbol: LITHT 20:20:08 :) 20:20:27 > (PLUTH 2 2) 20:20:28 error, unbound symbol: PLUTH 20:20:39 no arithmetic atm 20:21:23 > (CONTH 1 (CONTH 1 NIL)) 20:21:47 > ul ```skki 20:21:47 error, unbound symbol: ul 20:21:53 > sk ```skki 20:21:54 error, unbound symbol: sk 20:21:58 ... 20:22:00 i fail 20:22:02 >>> sk ```skki 20:22:03 -> i 20:22:12 oerjan: i don't even hvae cons! ;) 20:22:21 no p in the repl? 20:22:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:22:37 em, does it have any functions at all? 20:23:09 yeah, it does have functions 20:23:11 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:23:20 > (def id (x) x) 20:23:20 20:23:23 > (id 2) 20:23:23 2 20:23:29 > (if #t 1 2) 20:23:30 1 20:23:36 > (set a 2) 20:23:36 2 20:23:38 > a 20:23:38 2 20:23:50 #esoteric-blah if you want to test it, to avoid spamming here 20:23:56 don't you mean THET? 20:24:18 something tells me this is not quite LITHP 20:24:36 lithpbot is just a name :P 20:24:50 >>> sch (define s (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c)))))) 20:24:51 () 20:25:05 oklopol: my lexical scoping is borked 20:25:06 >>> sch (define k (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 20:25:07 () 20:25:07 waa, giving us false hopes :( 20:25:13 >>> ((k 5) 2) 20:25:14 oerjan: aww 20:25:17 >>> sch ((k 5) 2) 20:25:17 5 20:25:26 oklopol: MY LEXICAL SCOPING IS BROKEN 20:25:29 >>> sch (((s k) k) 9) 20:25:30 9 20:25:40 BUT I WAS SCARED I FAILED 20:25:47 luckily i didn't 20:26:06 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:26:10 added scoping debug 20:26:15 i'll find out what's wrong with set 20:26:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:26:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:26:20 kayzorz 20:26:26 Hah. 20:26:48 * oklopol dances a little dance for having made a workind lexical scoping faster 20:26:50 *working 20:27:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 20:27:12 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:27:12 lexical scoping is hard when your implementation sucks 20:27:13 :P 20:27:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:27:22 heh 20:27:27 iqkdo gcsieegubue goupeievife devezzda gesemoevevi goceliekuemua liekue gos^yeliehmerylieede gozoleydiedeyni viekue miekue deisoekue 20:28:42 that a real language? o_O 20:28:45 ATTEMPT #45056 20:28:47 oerjan: oklopol's 20:28:50 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:29:33 oerjan: yeah! 20:29:53 vocabulary may change completely, but i think semantics are ready. 20:29:56 i mean 20:29:58 err 20:29:59 syntax 20:30:00 grammar 20:30:03 whatever :)= 20:31:00 polysynthetic? 20:31:29 given those long words... 20:32:17 hmm, what's polysynthetic? :) 20:33:00 when one word combines what is several words, or even a whole sentence in other languages 20:34:25 Greenlandic is one example 20:35:03 hmm 20:35:38 well, basically you can just squeeze sentences into single words, since parsing is unambiguous... at least i think (..hope) it now is 20:36:08 >>> (define test lambda (a) b) 20:36:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysynthetic_language 20:36:13 >>> (define b 7) 20:36:18 >>> sch (define test lambda (a) b) 20:36:19 () 20:36:23 >>> sch (define b 7) 20:36:24 () 20:36:32 >>> sch (test 6) 20:36:43 >>> sch (define test (lambda (a) b)) 20:36:43 () 20:36:46 >>> sch (test 6) 20:36:46 7 20:36:50 :DDDD 20:37:00 okay... i also have dynamic scoping xD 20:37:07 hahahahaha 20:37:33 yeah 20:37:53 i realized that as i was looking at my implementation, kinda lolled 20:38:40 so who actually knows how to implement lexical scoping? :p 20:39:30 that's trivially made lexical if you just check every variable is actually bound when you make a lambda 20:39:44 so like what? 20:39:45 but i'm not gonna add that, since i kinda like it now :)) 20:39:52 oh 20:39:54 mine isn't? 20:39:56 i mean 20:39:59 mine isn't trivially made lexical 20:40:00 ? 20:40:03 i meant mine 20:40:07 aw 20:40:12 (ehird`) so who actually knows how to implement lexical scoping? :p <<< i was referring to this. 20:40:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:40:41 ok 20:42:00 does lConst work? 20:42:02 ... 20:42:04 lCons 20:42:10 ...LCons 20:42:46 it's a cons structure... 20:42:48 (a . b) 20:42:54 (car that) -> a 20:42:57 (cdr that) -> b 20:43:08 i kinda guessed that. now does it work? 20:43:08 a list is (e1 . (e2 . (e3 . ()))) 20:43:20 umm 20:43:21 look at it 20:43:22 it works 20:43:32 what is confusing about it 20:43:33 hehe, actually, how could it not work ;) 20:43:42 i read code very slowly. 20:44:19 lookup has a fun implementation 20:44:33 you have the same stack structure i have 20:44:43 of course 20:44:52 the stack itself is fine 20:44:56 it'd the binding that's up 20:45:04 presumably LFunc is where I go wrong 20:45:09 specifically self.closure = scope[:] 20:46:22 hmm 20:46:33 you don't need to save *everything* in the closure 20:46:36 just what's used 20:46:55 yeah but that shouldn't be the problem 20:46:57 .. should it? 20:47:00 nope. 20:47:09 global scope 20:47:09 old_scope = scope[:] # poof 20:47:09 scope = self.closure # zoop 20:47:11 maybe thats wrong 20:47:20 yeah 20:47:39 you should just push the closure on the scope, methinks. 20:47:55 ok 20:47:56 so 20:48:02 scope.extend(self.closure) 20:48:19 then pop off the scope len(self.closure) times? 20:48:37 scope.extend? 20:48:37 hmm. 20:48:41 scope is a list 20:48:49 x.extend(y) is x = x + y, for lists 20:48:50 but quicker 20:49:05 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:49:07 anyway 20:49:09 i did that 20:49:12 let's see how it goes 20:49:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 20:49:27 > (set a 2) 20:49:28 2 20:49:28 > a 20:49:29 2 20:49:29 didn't know that, weird. 20:49:39 > (def get-a () a) 20:49:40 20:49:43 > (get-a) 20:49:43 2 20:49:44 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 20:49:44 20:49:46 esesesese 20:49:46 sto 20:49:47 stop 20:49:47 STOP 20:49:48 STOP 20:49:54 > (set a 5) 20:49:55 5 20:49:56 > (get-a) 20:49:57 5 20:49:58 :< 20:49:58 ok 20:50:00 that is broken 20:50:01 correct? 20:50:01 what a meanie. 20:50:23 (set a 2) (def get-a () a) (set a 5) (get-a) should return 2 right 20:50:26 well broken in that it's not lexical 20:50:36 err 20:50:40 yeah. 20:50:50 ok, i think i get it 20:50:51 so 20:50:57 what is the best way to get the closure? 20:51:01 loop through, check for symbols? 20:51:04 that's ugly, slow 20:51:13 it should be correct already. 20:51:17 and no, it's not slow or ugly. 20:51:30 of course you have to check what variables a lambda encloses... 20:51:44 if you don't, you *have* to save every variable in the closure. 20:51:52 yeah 20:51:52 i guess 20:51:57 i think my implementation is kinda broken 20:51:59 don't you? 20:52:01 you can just do that while parsing. 20:52:30 hmm... well we know it *is* broken in that the closures don't work, but i can't really say what's broken. 20:52:38 well, i mean 20:52:42 i thought about it the wrong way 20:52:43 from the start 20:53:32 rewriting a program is often more fruitful than debugging it. 20:53:51 you're the anti-joel 20:54:11 I AM TEH ANTICHRIST 20:54:11 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:54:24 ono 20:54:41 ok 20:54:43 Lisp, mark two 20:54:51 #esoteric-blah 20:55:56 oklopol: ping #esoteric-blah 20:56:56 sheesh 20:59:29 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:59:42 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 21:13:34 i think the word for the time complexity of this algorithm is "fuck-assly slow" 21:14:54 what algo? 21:15:32 bf text generation 21:16:07 can you specify a bit? 21:16:23 it's hard to explain 21:22:15 http://pastebin.ca/760176 21:22:18 there's the code though 21:23:15 sex + pee = heaven 21:23:39 indeed 21:25:03 i think its time complexity is O(l**2 * f**l) 21:25:20 what's f? 21:25:59 the length of the tape 21:28:31 goddamn 21:28:38 i started doing hello world like 10 minutes ago 21:33:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:35:30 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:36:27 >>> (define a 7) 21:36:30 >>> sch (define a 7) 21:36:31 () 21:36:39 >>> sch (lambda (b) a) 21:36:40 21:36:45 >>> sch (define c (lambda (b) a)) 21:36:46 () 21:36:49 >>> sch (define a 7) 21:36:49 () 21:36:52 >>> sch (define a 4) 21:36:52 () 21:36:58 >>> sch (c 6) 21:36:59 7 21:37:04 it's lexical alright 21:37:04 ehird`: Any progress? 21:37:09 pikhq: on... 21:37:46 pebble.bfm 21:37:58 STILL going 21:38:06 pikhq: doh 21:39:16 and i thought EgoBot's algorithm was slow 21:41:48 hmmm, it is very parellizable 21:49:06 who wants to set up a cluster for it? 21:58:03 oklopol: in scheme, define usually doesn't create a new variable if there is already one in the exact same scope 21:58:10 iirc 21:58:34 in other words, (c 6) should have returned 4 21:59:19 (ML does it the other way around, btw) 22:00:43 err hwat 22:01:32 if there is already an a defined at the same level, (define a 4) in scheme acts as (set! a 4) 22:01:40 oh. 22:01:53 and any old references to a will get the update 22:02:17 i don't really know the imperative side of scheme 22:02:28 actually 22:02:33 i don't really know scheme. 22:02:51 btw bus to catch 22:03:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus"). 22:05:03 * ehird` catches oerjan's quit message 22:15:13 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:17:45 dbc: how do you generalize that? 22:22:51 this has been going for over an hour now :( 22:25:06 this better be one damn good hello world 22:38:55 :D 22:39:22 if it's okay, i'll lol a bit if EgoBot beats it :) 22:39:58 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 22:40:41 ... 22:40:41 119 +++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++<<<<-]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>-.------------.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+. [995] 22:41:03 whoa 22:41:09 that's pretty much the same approach i took 22:41:27 haven't you ever seen EgoBot's output? :| 22:41:37 i've never really looked at it 22:41:54 is it random? 22:41:55 hmm, understandabel 22:41:57 elele 22:41:57 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 22:42:09 it's genetic, it may not find the same thing every time 22:42:16 yeah that's what i meant 22:42:26 but, it usually finds the same thing 22:42:39 117 +++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>++++++.>++.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [906] 22:42:42 heh 22:42:44 or not. 22:43:01 and that one's shorter! 22:43:04 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 22:43:10 2 shorter 22:43:12 hmm 22:43:12 or 22:43:43 impossible to calculate. 22:43:48 122 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++<<<<-]>++.>+++.>----..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+. [400] 22:43:52 "mommy, what's 6*8?" "oh, sweetie, those are two completely different numbers!" 22:43:54 bah 22:44:09 i was hoping it stored the previous one and improved on it 22:44:17 like google maps does 22:44:24 well, that's a separate program 22:45:50 oklopol: hm 22:46:30 ehird`: olp? 22:57:50 olp 22:58:01 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 22:58:44 121 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++><<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [192] 23:04:21 i once did a bf textgen that produced short output most of the time.... but back then i was trying out lisp .... so i can't read or run that code anymore ^^ 23:04:46 and it was awfully slow 23:05:51 i bet it's faster than mine 23:06:02 bsmntbom1dood: still going? :D 23:06:31 bsmntbombdood: why are you still running it? rewrite it already 23:06:43 i dunno how to make it faster 23:06:47 oklopol: yep 23:06:55 ehird`: don't ruin the fun! 23:07:27 i should write one in c++... 23:07:37 bsmntbombdood: make it print debug output, see what's happening 23:07:44 jix: you shouldn't write ANYTHING in c++ 23:07:54 ehird`: tell me a better language 23:07:54 ehird`: why? 23:07:58 jix: scheme, c 23:08:01 jix: C or something higher level 23:08:08 if you're going for speed, probably C 23:08:24 c is a pain in the ass 23:08:25 bsmntbombdood: because you'll get even incomplete results asap 23:08:32 jix: because you try to use it like c++ 23:08:33 dynamic arrays in c... 23:08:37 ... are trivial 23:08:41 that's true 23:08:42 are annoying as hell 23:08:47 i programmed c for years before learning c++ 23:08:56 bsmntbombdood: so you'll be able to see if it works well, how it's doing etc 23:08:59 so don't tell me i try to use c like c++ 23:09:04 but i don't want to waste 2 hours of time 23:10:46 i'm not going to use c for anything besides linux kernel modules and maybe 4k intros anymore 23:10:47 bsmntbombdood: keep running it 23:10:52 just set its priority lower 23:11:24 hmm ok 23:12:07 how do you renice a running proccess? 23:12:15 bsmntbombdood: with renice 23:12:30 oh lol 23:12:42 bsmntbombdood is clinically retarded, news at 11 23:12:43 ;) 23:13:22 but i don't want a language war right now... 23:17:27 ok, now it's going to print the best so far 255 times in its running 23:20:41 maybe you should do more than 255 times 23:20:47 I mean, that's an awful lot considering how long it's taking 23:25:26 those are the only places where there is a complete product 23:28:53 and the only place to print that wouldn't print every single step 23:29:07 why not print every single step? 23:34:54 ...because that would print O(l**2 * f**l) times 23:34:58 so what 23:34:59 :) 23:36:11 it would spend more time printing than calculating, and that's too much information to be usefull 23:36:43 alright, make it print every iteration % 1000 == 0 23:36:47 or 10000 23:37:07 ...that would require a shitload of bookkeeping to number iterations 23:37:18 that's a disadvantage of functional programming 23:37:50 oklopol: lithpbot is ready! 23:37:51 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:37:55 with REAL LEXICAL SCOPING(TM) 23:38:00 i just, haven't written any functions yet 23:38:00 > 2 23:38:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:38:03 heh 23:39:10 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:39:10 the glottal stop in lisp bot is unpleasant 23:39:27 bsmntbombdood: even worse in "lithp bot" 23:39:28 > 2 23:39:28 2 23:39:33 > (2 2) 23:39:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:35 WTF 23:39:39 haha 23:39:39 oh 23:40:16 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:40:17 > (2 2) 23:40:17 (err)not callable: 2 23:40:31 lookie what i made: http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/book1.jpg 23:40:34 > (+ 1 2) 23:40:35 (err)unbound: + 23:40:37 book2.jpg, book3.jpg 23:40:39 > (add 1 2) 23:40:40 (err)unbound: add 23:40:49 jix: i said i didn't impl any functions yet 23:40:54 it even has a elastic keep-closed strap and pocket in the back cover (not shown) 23:40:57 the infrastructure is there though 23:46:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:46:29 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:47:26 > lambda 23:47:27 #native-function:1 23:47:29 :D 23:47:33 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 23:47:41 > (lambda () 2) 23:47:41 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:47:48 typical 23:48:09 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:48:10 > (lambda () 2) 23:48:10 None 23:48:14 hm 23:48:15 oh 23:48:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:49:10 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:49:11 > (lambda () 2) 23:49:11 #function:8 23:49:13 > (lambda () 2) 23:49:14 #function:e 23:49:15 > (lambda () 2) 23:49:15 #function:14 23:49:23 that's... odd growth 23:49:23 :) 23:49:31 ah, no 23:49:32 that's right 23:49:37 > ((lambda () 2)) 23:49:37 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:49:40 ifgiushf 23:50:10 finally 23:50:10 fixed 23:50:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:50:21 > ((lambda () 2)) 23:50:22 2 23:50:25 :D 23:50:26 oklopol: ping 23:50:43 pong 23:50:45 > (lambda () ((lambda () 2))) 23:50:45 #function:14 23:50:48 > ((lambda () ((lambda () 2)))) 23:50:48 2 23:50:52 it's rewritten 23:50:55 niec 23:50:56 ?? 23:50:57 > ( 23:50:58 (err) unmatched ( 23:51:04 bsmntbombdood: lithpbot! 23:51:12 > (quote 2) 23:51:12 (err) unbound: quote 23:51:23 no strings right now either 23:51:23 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 23:51:23 (err) unmatched ( 23:51:27 > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) 23:51:27 (err) unmatched ( 23:51:33 ... 23:51:34 > (((s k) k) 3) 23:51:34 wait, what 23:51:34 (err) unmatched ( 23:51:34 asd. 23:51:40 > (2) 23:51:40 (err) not callable: 2 23:51:43 > ((2) 2) 23:51:43 (err) not callable: 2 23:51:46 > ((2 3) 2) 23:51:46 (err) not callable: 2 23:51:48 for my lisp textgen i used A* for the 2nd part... i wonder whether there is a better algoritm for that 23:51:52 better as in faster 23:51:52 > (((2 3) 2) 4) 23:51:53 (err) not callable: 2 23:52:10 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 23:52:10 (err) unmatched ( 23:52:12 .. 23:52:13 hmm 23:52:18 yeah 23:52:20 my parser is borked, somehow 23:52:26 i see, darn 23:52:30 anyway 23:52:32 no def right now 23:52:33 ;P 23:52:36 just lambda 23:52:48 kay. 23:52:49 however 23:52:51 you can do this 23:52:51 > 2 3 23:52:52 3 23:53:01 > ((lambda () 2)) (lambda () 2) 23:53:01 #function:7a 23:53:08 i really need a gc 23:53:09 :| 23:53:41 > ((((lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 8) 23:53:41 (err) unmatched ( 23:53:44 ... 23:54:05 YOUR MOTHER IS AN UNMATCHED ( 23:54:05 it's broken! 23:54:06 ok! 23:54:18 > (abc def) 23:54:18 (err) unmatched ( 23:54:22 > (abc d) 23:54:22 (err) unmatched ( 23:54:24 > (a d) 23:54:24 (err) unmatched ( 23:54:26 i see 23:54:43 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:54:47 * ehird` adds debug calls 23:54:54 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:54:57 i thought just def was, but anyways, gotta sleep soon 23:55:05 aww 23:55:09 > (a d) 23:55:10 (err) unmatched ( 23:55:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:55:37 oklopol: after i fix this, i'm doing def etc 23:55:40 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:55:43 > (a d) 23:55:44 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:56:04 we don't need no steeenking def 23:56:10 well whatever 23:56:12 > 'a 23:56:12 i'm fixing this atm 23:56:21 yeah 23:56:21 bsmntbombdood: 1. it's gone 2. you mean (quote a) 23:56:26 3. quote isn't implemented yet 23:56:29 :D 23:56:38 lol how can quote not be implemented yet 23:56:58 how can it not not be? 23:57:19 bsmntbombdood: the interp isn't that old 23:57:27 it's about an hour old 23:57:28 :| 23:57:37 interps grow quotes at about 3 hours old 23:57:42 lmao 23:58:43 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:58:43 oh, this has been studied already? 23:58:46 > (a d) 23:58:47 (err) unmatched ( 23:58:51 sdfsdjfhsaidfh4i4thdkjbdkjgbxnckl;v 23:59:02 > ?1 23:59:02 (err) unbound: ?1 23:59:12 > wtf does this lithp have 23:59:12 (err) unbound: wtf 23:59:22 > (let ((x 1)) x) 23:59:22 (err) unmatched ( 23:59:22 it has core lisp stuff. 23:59:25 shut up 23:59:27 THE PARSING IS BROKEN 23:59:27 THE PARSING IS BROKEN 23:59:30 ^^^^^^^^^ 23:59:31 I AM FIXING IN 23:59:32 no shit 23:59:34 *IT 23:59:39 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:59:46 why do you think it keeps restarting! 23:59:52 -!- lithpbot has joined. 23:59:59 > (a d) 23:59:59 (err) unmatched ( 2007-11-04: 00:00:08 hm, ok, that isn't being printed on my console 00:00:10 so hm 00:00:17 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:00:32 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:00:33 > (a d) 00:00:33 (err) unmatched ( 00:00:46 ahh, i seeeeee 00:00:53 me am stoopid 00:01:18 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:01:22 let's try now 00:01:29 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:01:29 > (a d) 00:01:30 (err) unbound: a 00:01:32 woot 00:01:45 oklopol: there you go 00:01:56 > (a(b(c)d)e) 00:01:56 (err) unbound: a(b(c 00:01:59 hm 00:02:09 oh 00:02:10 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:02:12 silly me 00:02:16 bah 00:02:19 i'll implement some primitives first 00:05:27 ok 00:05:36 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:05:37 now it has lambda, quote, set , def, if 00:05:40 oklopol: ping 00:05:43 > (set a 4) 00:05:44 4 00:05:46 > a 00:05:46 4 00:05:51 > (set a 5) 00:05:51 5 00:05:52 > a 00:05:52 5 00:05:58 > (quote a) 00:05:58 a 00:06:13 > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:06:13 yes 00:06:23 > (if () (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:06:24 yes 00:06:26 hm 00:06:26 :P 00:07:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:07:45 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:07:46 > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:07:46 yes 00:07:49 > (if 1 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:07:49 yes 00:07:53 Retarded. 00:07:56 no 00:08:03 0 is true in all lisps i know of 00:08:07 not in this one 00:08:09 for example 00:08:12 my boolean function returns 1 or 0 00:08:18 but it isn't returning 0 for "0" which is bizzare 00:08:20 lame 00:08:27 ololobot's lisp does it 00:08:41 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:08:54 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:08:58 > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:08:59 yes 00:09:17 bsmntbom1dood: if C does it, it must be right. 00:09:43 of course 00:09:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:09:54 and you need a client that does last-spoken tab completion 00:10:11 ifthis doesn't work i don't know what's wrong: 00:10:14 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:10:15 > (if 0 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:10:15 no 00:10:17 woot 00:10:19 > (if 1 (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:10:19 yes 00:10:22 > (if () (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:10:23 no 00:10:24 > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:10:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:10:27 hahahugjgf 00:10:32 wtf, two false values? 00:10:36 yes 00:10:38 0 and () are false 00:10:50 0 because that's what the to-boolean returns 00:10:59 () because it makes no sense to have nil true 00:12:05 it makes no sense to have 0 fale 00:12:14 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:12:16 i don't really care if you think that 00:12:20 > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:12:21 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:12:36 (1) is an error... 00:12:49 yes, i know that 00:12:50 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:12:52 it's failing at a previous point 00:12:57 (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:13:01 > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:13:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:13:52 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:13:53 > (if (1) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:13:53 (err) not callable: 1 00:13:56 > (if () (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:13:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:14:19 all right 00:14:19 finally 00:14:21 i've got it 00:14:24 grrr 00:14:31 bsmntbombdood: what 00:14:34 it's been an hour and it's still not 1/255 done 00:14:41 bookkeeping time 00:14:57 :D 00:15:01 oklopol: ok 00:15:03 oklopol: it's all there 00:15:04 everything 00:15:06 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:15:06 bsmntbom1dood: are you sure it works at all :D 00:15:09 > (if () (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:15:09 no 00:15:11 ehird`: you sure :D 00:15:16 > (if (quote (1)) (quote yes) (quote no)) 00:15:16 yes 00:15:20 pretty sure!! 00:15:22 > if 00:15:23 #native-function:9 00:15:24 > ((((lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) (lambda (a) (lambda (b) a))) 8) 00:15:24 (err) unbound: c 00:15:24 > cond 00:15:25 (err) unbound: cond 00:15:33 uhh 00:15:36 should c be unbound 00:15:41 c can't be unbound there. 00:15:52 (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))) 00:15:55 no way. 00:15:57 > (def test (x) ((lambda (y) y) x)) 00:15:58 #function:86 00:15:59 > test 00:15:59 #function:86 00:16:05 > (test 2) 00:16:05 2 00:16:19 anyway 00:16:21 def works now, oklopol 00:16:23 do it in chunks 00:16:52 kay 00:17:03 (def NAME ARGS CODE...) 00:17:05 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:17:05 #function:ab 00:17:07 > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) 00:17:07 #function:bb 00:17:09 > (((s k) k) 3) 00:17:10 (err) unbound: c 00:17:58 (def s (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z) ((x z) (y z))))) 00:17:59 > (def s (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z) ((x z) (y z))))) 00:17:59 #function:e8 00:18:04 > (s k) 00:18:04 (err) unbound: k 00:18:12 fuck the what 00:18:16 > k 00:18:16 (err) unbound: k 00:18:21 but... 00:18:35 :DSDSDSD 00:19:18 http://rafb.net/p/Q6qc8624.html 00:19:21 i have no idea what went wrong 00:19:24 tell me my bug :D 00:19:46 i can tell you on monday when i have time :<<< 00:19:50 :< 00:19:51 gotta go sleep now 00:19:55 alright 00:19:57 bye! 00:19:58 :) 00:20:21 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:20:32 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:20:33 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) 00:20:33 #function:39 00:20:35 > s 00:20:35 #function:29 00:20:36 > k 00:20:37 #function:39 00:20:37 godaamn so slow 00:20:46 > (((s k) k) 3) 00:20:46 (err) unbound: c 00:20:54 > s 00:20:54 #function:29 00:20:56 > k 00:20:56 (err) unbound: k 00:20:59 bsmntbom1dood: you sure it isn't just in an infinite loop or smth? 00:21:02 i'm sure 00:21:11 bsmntbombdood: make it print out EVERY iteration 00:21:12 just to be sure 00:21:22 i've used it on shorter strings 00:21:23 kay, reallity sleepity -> 00:21:25 it works fine 00:22:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:22:47 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:22:59 -!- RedDak has joined. 00:23:02 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3) 00:23:03 (err) unbound: c 00:23:05 > s 00:23:05 #function:29 00:23:06 > k 00:23:06 #function:39 00:24:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:24:26 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:24:45 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3) 00:24:45 (err) unbound: c 00:25:49 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:26:01 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:26:05 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3) 00:26:05 (err) unbound: c 00:26:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:27:04 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:27:16 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) (((s k) k) 3) 00:27:17 (err) unbound: c 00:31:22 -!- ecl has joined. 00:31:32 -!- ecl has left (?). 00:32:00 aah, shit 00:32:09 tihs ,haa 00:32:23 my algorithm, running on my computer, would take 460 years to compute hello world 00:32:24 :( 00:33:25 AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHSAADJOASDLSKHDLKF 00:36:19 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:36:41 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:36:48 > (set a 2) 00:36:48 2 00:36:49 > a 00:36:49 2 00:36:56 > (def id (x) x) 00:36:56 #function:1b 00:36:58 > (id 2) 00:36:58 2 00:36:59 -!- ehird` has left (?). 00:37:03 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:37:21 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:37:21 #function:3e 00:37:26 > (def k (a) (lambda (b) a)) 00:37:26 #function:4e 00:37:30 > (((s k) k) 3) 00:37:30 3 00:37:35 oklopol: WOOT!! 00:37:38 oklopol: IT WORKS!!! 00:38:05 ooh, i can reduce it a bit 00:38:50 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:38:52 there 00:38:53 it's ready 00:39:01 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:39:15 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:39:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:39:28 Um. 00:39:37 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:40:06 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:40:06 #function:29 00:40:11 > (s s) 00:40:11 #function:2e 00:40:13 > ((s s) s) 00:40:14 #function:37 00:40:18 > (((s s) s) s) 00:40:18 #function:46 00:40:24 > ((((s s) s) s) s) 00:40:24 #function:5b 00:40:29 Okay. 00:40:31 Time for gc. 00:40:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:47:56 PL 00:47:58 OK 00:48:00 I think the gc should work 00:48:04 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:48:26 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:48:27 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:48:54 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:48:58 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:48:59 #function:29 00:49:06 > (def k (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:06 #function:48 00:49:12 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:12 #function:c4 00:49:16 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:16 #function:140 00:49:23 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:23 #function:1bc 00:49:24 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:24 #function:238 00:49:26 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:26 #function:2b4 00:49:27 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:27 #function:330 00:49:30 hm. 00:49:38 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:49:55 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:49:58 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:49:58 #function:29 00:50:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:50:32 that was stupid 00:50:32 XD 00:50:55 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:50:56 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:50:56 #function:29 00:51:01 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:01 #function:48 00:51:05 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:05 #function:67 00:51:06 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:06 #function:86 00:51:09 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:09 #function:a5 00:51:12 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:13 #function:c4 00:51:14 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:51:14 #function:e3 00:51:21 > if 00:51:21 #native-function:9 00:51:30 Hmm, wtf. 00:52:08 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:52:37 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:53:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:53:16 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:53:21 oh hello oerjan 00:53:28 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:53:30 i'm putting the finishing touches on lithpbot's gc 00:53:34 yes -- a gc written in python 00:53:55 but...python is garbage collected 00:54:00 ...so you don't need one 00:54:12 i do, because i append every object to a list 00:54:18 for the sole purpose of keeping them alive 00:54:20 so my gc can run 00:54:20 :D 00:54:26 hmm 00:54:36 i wonder, how many objects should i let be allocated before i gc()? 00:54:44 well that's stupid 00:54:50 hehe yeah 00:54:52 but fun 00:55:03 give me a number :P i can't decide how many objects it can allocate before i run the gc 00:55:09 right now it's at 200 00:55:28 424242 00:55:37 far too high 00:55:37 :P 00:55:46 4242 then 00:55:53 probably too high :P 00:55:54 meh 00:55:56 i'll leave it at 200 00:56:01 with the fast turnover of irc it's about right 00:57:51 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:58:01 made it save symbols and numbers 00:58:02 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:58:02 it should probably depend on how many objects remained after the last gc 00:58:07 i guess 00:58:12 > > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:58:12 (err) unbound: > 00:58:15 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:58:16 #function:2b 00:58:20 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 00:58:20 #function:4a 00:58:23 hmm 00:58:29 > (quote a) 00:58:29 a 00:58:36 any reason to use hex numbers? 00:58:42 jix: in the printout? 00:58:45 yeah 00:58:46 because it's a faux-memory location 00:58:46 :) 00:58:51 ah 00:58:53 twice that + 200, perhaps? 00:59:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:59:30 * ehird` debugs to check symbol/etc saving is working 00:59:33 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:59:39 > (quote a) 00:59:40 a 00:59:42 > (quote a) 00:59:43 a 00:59:51 > (quote a) 00:59:52 a 00:59:59 hm 01:00:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:00:39 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:00:46 > (quote a) 01:00:46 a 01:00:50 oh 01:00:50 duh 01:00:51 hahaha 01:01:24 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:01:32 I didn't actually fill the dict =) 01:01:35 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:01:40 > (quote a) 01:01:40 a 01:01:41 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:01:42 > (quote a) 01:01:43 a 01:01:45 > (quote a) 01:01:45 a 01:01:48 Hm. 01:01:51 It's still growing., 01:02:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:02:38 s debug code 01:02:40 * ehird` adds debug code 01:03:17 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:03:42 > (quote a) 01:03:43 a 01:03:49 > (quote a) 01:03:49 a 01:03:56 Ok, something ELSE is making it grow. 01:04:24 Ayee! 01:04:32 but why would it? 01:04:35 a monster hiding in your code, growing.. 01:04:37 it retains quote and a 01:04:41 and quote just returns its first arg 01:05:06 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:05:10 more debug output time. 01:05:17 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:05:21 > (quote a) 01:05:22 a 01:06:01 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:06:03 the cons cells in (quote a) themselves? 01:06:07 .. 01:06:09 duh 01:06:11 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:06:11 i am so stupid 01:06:18 * ehird` removes debug 01:06:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:06:35 Um 01:06:36 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:06:38 It should take up memory, right? 01:06:46 I shouldn't cache cons cells should I? 01:06:50 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 01:06:50 #function:29 01:06:51 > (def s (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) ((a c) (b c))))) 01:06:52 #function:48 01:07:08 unless you are using hash consing, that would be hard 01:07:18 indeed 01:07:28 ok, so the functions right now are 01:07:33 lambda, quote, set, def, if 01:07:38 in which language is it written? 01:07:40 I wonder what comes next, logically, for 'essentialness'? 01:07:43 I'd guess cons, car, cdr 01:07:50 everything is so similar and anything. 01:07:52 jix: Python. with a gc implemented in Python! 01:07:56 oklopol: hey! welcome back from sleep :P 01:08:01 haha 01:08:02 oklopol: I got your example working 01:08:05 that has style 01:08:06 oklopol: and I wrote a goddamn gc 01:08:06 heh, hi 01:08:10 A GODDAMN GC 01:08:22 :D 01:08:22 cl 01:08:25 writing a realtime gc is harder 01:08:36 jix: yeah it does a Big Global Stop 01:08:38 i'm a bit too tired to get excited right now 01:08:43 but yay 01:08:46 . 01:08:57 ehird`: you either have to add code to all reads or to all writes (which is more sane as reads are more common) 01:09:01 that sucks... 01:09:20 yeah well 01:09:20 who cares 01:09:21 :) 01:09:28 you do care if you need speed 01:09:49 so if you need speed and realtime ... :/ 01:10:09 i don't need speed 01:10:10 this is a toy 01:10:18 and you don't need realtime 01:10:22 ehird` must be after speed, that's why he's simulating a gc. 01:10:24 but i was talking about writing a gc in general 01:10:27 oklopol: ;) 01:10:53 two gc's on top of each other must naturally be twice as fast. 01:10:55 because the only thing i read about gcs is how to do a realtime gc because i thought i need that but then i didn't do that project anyway 01:11:09 oklopol: as bf interpreted in bf is twice as fast as uh wait... 01:11:14 i'll try sleeping again, see ya :| 01:11:19 jix: exactly! 01:11:21 aww, bye oklopol :( 01:11:27 can't you test my lexical scoping :P 01:11:27 bye, nights -> 01:11:31 hehe 01:11:38 i saw your tests already :)' 01:11:48 * oklopol is a fanatic logreader 01:11:49 yeah 01:11:53 but that's not lexical scoping 01:11:56 that's not your test 01:11:57 :P 01:11:58 that you used 01:11:59 on ololobot 01:12:06 oksy 01:12:08 i'll 01:12:09 test 01:12:15 > (def a 5) 01:12:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:12:19 LOL 01:12:21 whooooops :)) 01:12:23 the last nights were horrible... i was soldering stuff the last whole days and then i started to dream of soldering SOIC chips and made one solder bridge next to the other :( 01:12:27 def is *not* for funxx 01:12:35 even worse than it was in real 01:12:36 i'll stop that crapping out, wait 01:13:11 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:13:23 now there's cons and car/cdr 01:13:24 > (set a 5 ) 01:13:24 (err) unmatched ) 01:13:27 > (set a 5) 01:13:28 lol? 01:13:28 5 01:13:33 > (cons 1 2) 01:13:34 (1 . 2) 01:13:38 anyway 01:13:40 you continue 01:13:55 > (set f (lambda () a)) 01:13:55 #function:2c 01:13:58 > (f) 01:13:59 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:14:05 looooooool? 01:14:06 also 01:14:09 you can do (def f () a) 01:14:10 grass can be green 01:14:16 yeah i know 01:14:17 !! 01:14:21 Huh? 01:14:36 anyway 01:14:40 reloading bot 01:14:43 with fix 01:14:46 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:15:05 did.i.do.something.wrong.or.was.the.bot.the.one.doing.the.non.working? 01:15:08 bot 01:15:11 > (set f (lambda () a)) 01:15:11 #function:1b 01:15:16 > (set a 5) 01:15:16 5 01:15:19 > (set f (lambda () a)) 01:15:19 #function:2c 01:15:26 > (f) 01:15:26 5 01:15:31 cl 01:15:36 > (set a 7) 01:15:36 7 01:15:37 that isn't all of it :< 01:15:38 ah 01:15:39 :P 01:15:40 > (f) 01:15:41 5 01:15:43 ... 01:15:44 wait, what. 01:15:48 hah, you have the same thing i have 01:15:49 that's not right 01:16:00 i'll fix thanks :P 01:16:08 the same thing i berated oklopol for 01:16:09 fixity faxity 01:16:32 oerjan: you are all red and gooey 01:16:33 oerjan: looool 01:16:41 self.closure = table.copy() 01:16:43 perhaps it's the highlight. 01:16:43 gooey? 01:16:44 THAT might be the problem 01:16:46 do you think? 01:16:47 ;) 01:16:49 ah 01:16:54 gooey was just for fun. 01:16:55 but 01:16:58 i only have one table 01:17:01 table = {} 01:17:03 with the bindings 01:17:07 so, i don't see how else i could make a closure 01:17:12 oerjan: how could I? :P 01:17:18 indeed you want tables by reference in scheme 01:17:29 right, but how would i do that here 01:17:44 i'm gonna say magic. 01:17:52 scopes are essentially mutable objects 01:17:56 correct 01:18:00 but, unlike some implementations 01:18:07 i don't have [{},{}...{}] as a scope 01:18:09 i just have one 01:18:12 and copy it to get a function's closure 01:18:16 how do i, um, fix :P 01:18:28 ehird`: you have to keep a list of tables i think 01:18:29 an alternative is to have an indirection 01:18:42 storing a variable as a mutable cell 01:18:42 and first look in the first table then in the next one 01:18:56 jix: yeah, but how do i make a closure then? when i've done that all hell breaks loos 01:18:57 e 01:19:00 and storing a reference to that cell in the scope table 01:19:15 then you can do tables by copy 01:19:17 jix's sounds simpler 01:19:19 :| 01:19:22 but oerjan's is probably better 01:19:24 so, oerjan 01:19:27 i'll have a class "var" 01:19:34 which has a property "dest", which is an object 01:19:40 mine is used much in languages where most variables _aren't_ mutable 01:19:41 and store {name: var-object} in the table 01:19:42 right? 01:19:50 hmm 01:19:54 although with that way 01:19:56 if you do 01:19:59 ML, haskell etc. 01:20:05 (def f () x) 01:20:06 (set x 2) 01:20:06 without x being defined before 01:20:07 you can't get to it 01:20:11 but that's a problem now anyway 01:20:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 01:20:14 how would i fix that? 01:20:44 ah yes that's a problem in scheme, you have all those forward references 01:20:51 yeah 01:20:59 should i kill myself or is there a way out? :P 01:21:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:21:02 but i don't know the details right now... the only scoping thing i recently wrote was the one for the macro assembler i'm working on and that one is completely borked 01:21:41 i think a list of scopes fits scheme better 01:22:39 ML/haskell essentially need a complete preparsing stage on anything that can contain forward references (the whole module in haskell, each rec block in ML) 01:23:09 ok 01:23:12 (well haskell even allows mutually recursive modules, but support is a bit sketchy) 01:23:19 so how would i grab a closure? 01:24:17 let each scope contain a reference to its parent 01:24:22 ok 01:24:24 so 01:24:27 and just use references to them 01:24:34 [{_p: None, ...}, ..., {_p: prev, ...}] 01:24:36 right 01:24:42 but how exactly do i get a closure 01:25:09 you store the surrounding scope with the function 01:25:28 so... just copy the list of scopes, really 01:25:35 self.closure = scopes[:] 01:25:46 right? 01:26:12 you don't need copy, just reference 01:26:30 that won't copy the scope mappings 01:26:32 just the list of scopes 01:26:45 um, the scopes are the scope mapping 01:26:47 *s 01:26:56 as far as i consider it 01:27:14 [{k:v},{k:v},...{k:v}] 01:27:18 [...] is the list of scopes 01:27:22 each individual one is a scope 01:27:29 note that scope are mutable and you want changes to them to be shared 01:27:33 *scopes 01:27:41 yes 01:27:42 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:27:44 coping the list of scopes 01:27:48 does not copy the individual scopes 01:28:28 however, you don't need a list, if each scope contains a reference to its parent 01:29:17 right, but they're basically equiv. 01:29:25 it's stack-as-linked-list vs stack-as-array 01:29:31 ehird`: no 01:29:38 you all have a point. hang on to it, i'll try sleeping -> 01:29:41 because you will get a tree 01:29:58 ok 01:29:58 so 01:30:02 hmm but yeah array would work too but you'd keep more copys... 01:30:03 table = {_p: {...}, blah} 01:30:08 then copy table? 01:30:12 but that won't work!!! 01:30:17 because, if a value is updated in table 01:30:20 then it won't be seen 01:30:21 so.. 01:30:28 _no_ copying 01:30:37 ok 01:30:40 i think i get it now 01:30:41 let me try that 01:31:00 i only need new scopes for functions, right? 01:31:05 i.e. push a scope for funcall 01:31:07 pop after 01:32:29 oerjan: right? 01:32:33 and right before 01:32:39 more or less, everything desugars to lambdas 01:33:44 i think that works 01:34:19 maybe i should mention i only understand the theory, i've never tried to implement it :D 01:35:34 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:35:40 let's see if this works. 01:35:46 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:35:53 > (set x 2) 01:35:53 2 01:35:54 > x 01:35:54 2 01:35:56 > set 01:35:56 #native-function:5 01:36:01 > (def f () x) 01:36:01 #function:22 01:36:04 > (f) 01:36:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:36:09 apparently not 01:36:33 oh wait 01:36:34 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:36:36 > (set x 2) 01:36:37 2 01:36:42 oh what now oerjan. 01:36:45 > (def f () x) 01:36:45 #function:20 01:36:46 > (f) 01:36:47 2 01:36:47 when you call a function you don't just push a new scope 01:36:53 yeah i realised that 01:36:58 you save the old scope-list 01:37:03 make the new one your closure 01:37:03 you also replace the entire stack with the one in the closure 01:37:06 yeah 01:37:09 then restore it at the end 01:37:10 i do that 01:37:13 > (set x 5) 01:37:14 5 01:37:15 > (f) 01:37:15 5 01:37:16 woot 01:37:27 > (def g () (set x 7) (f)) 01:37:28 #function:3a 01:37:29 > (g) 01:37:29 7 01:37:32 damnit!!! 01:37:40 oerjan: this is dynamic scoping 01:37:41 > x 01:37:42 7 01:37:43 ... 01:37:44 wait, no 01:37:46 this is fucked up scoping 01:37:49 no it's correct 01:37:56 no 01:37:59 > (def g () (set x 7) (f)) 01:37:59 #function:4d 01:38:01 because you never defined x, so it's at top level 01:38:04 uhh 01:38:06 i did define x 01:38:08 as top level 01:38:12 set is define too 01:38:19 so it is shared 01:38:20 set x 7 should have set it in g's scope 01:38:22 then f should have ignored it 01:38:23 and no 01:38:24 oh 01:38:25 my lisp does not work that way 01:39:05 you agree that that is wrong? 01:39:07 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:39:11 that is a bit impractical if you _do_ want to set a variable which exists in an outer scope 01:39:12 it's dynamic scoping 01:39:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:39:19 and yeah whatever 01:39:23 > (set x 5) 01:39:23 5 01:39:30 > (def f () x) 01:39:31 #function:20 01:39:32 > (f) 01:39:32 5 01:39:36 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++. 01:39:39 Hel 01:39:43 > (set x 6) 01:39:43 6 01:39:45 > (def g () (set x 7) (f)) 01:39:46 #function:38 01:39:46 > (f) 01:39:46 6 01:39:47 not optimal yet ^^ 01:39:47 oerjan, damnit 01:39:48 stop that 01:39:51 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:39:55 I was trying to read my debug output 01:40:01 oh :) 01:40:02 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:40:11 > (set x 5) 01:40:12 5 01:40:25 > (def f () x) 01:40:26 #function:20 01:40:30 > (f) 01:40:30 5 01:40:37 oh 01:40:46 oerjan: i need to push a new stack AFTER replacing the closure 01:40:49 not just replace it 01:41:11 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:41:15 oerjan: :) 01:41:22 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:41:23 > (set x 5) 01:41:24 5 01:41:27 > (def f () x) 01:41:27 #function:20 01:41:28 > (f) 01:41:28 5 01:41:39 > (def g () (set x 7) (f)) 01:41:39 #function:32 01:41:41 > (g) 01:41:42 5 01:41:45 hurrah 01:41:48 > (set x 7) 01:41:48 7 01:41:49 > (f) 01:41:49 7 01:41:50 > (g) 01:41:50 7 01:41:54 > (set x 50) 01:41:54 50 01:41:56 > (f) 01:41:57 50 01:41:57 > (g) 01:41:58 50 01:42:01 oerjan: IT WORKS :D 01:43:04 now let me try something more complicated 01:43:20 okay 01:43:26 i'll implement arithmetic while yo udo 01:43:37 oh and eval 01:44:20 oerjan: i'm excited what is it 01:44:21 :P 01:45:30 hm wait 01:45:47 no arithmetic 01:45:52 oh 01:45:56 what arithmetic do you need 01:46:00 i'll implement those first 01:46:16 just + 01:46:23 i just finished doing + 01:46:25 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:46:28 it's loading now 01:46:36 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:46:38 anyway i'm not sure it will work because of your strange set 01:46:40 oerjan: there you go 01:46:43 hm 01:46:44 my strange set? 01:47:26 better test + 01:47:26 > + 01:47:27 #native-function:15 01:47:30 > (+) 01:47:30 0 01:47:31 > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x) ) 01:47:31 (err) unmatched ) 01:47:37 spaces freak it out oerjan 01:47:41 remove that one at the tend 01:47:44 > (+ 5 2) 01:47:44 7 01:47:46 oh 01:47:47 > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 01:47:47 #function:5e 01:47:50 it's paul graham's thing :) 01:48:03 (set f (counter 42)) 01:48:06 > (set f (counter 42)) 01:48:06 #function:68 01:48:10 > (f) 01:48:10 (err) tried to add non-number 01:48:14 oh 01:48:15 duh 01:48:16 let me fix that 01:48:37 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:48:44 i didn't eval the arguments to + 01:48:45 :) 01:48:48 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:48:49 > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 01:48:49 #function:37 01:48:53 > (set f (counter 42)) 01:48:53 #function:41 01:48:54 > (f) 01:48:54 43 01:48:56 > (f) 01:48:57 43 01:48:58 > (f) 01:48:58 43 01:49:00 :| 01:49:01 alas 01:49:06 why does that not work? 01:49:07 oh, i see 01:49:13 ok 01:49:18 should changes like that persist? 01:49:21 there are two different x'es 01:49:28 that would mean, all variables change 01:49:29 err 01:49:31 persist 01:49:32 which would be odd 01:49:38 oerjan: ok, how should i do it to make that work 01:50:06 you need to make set not introduce a new variable if there is one in an outer scope 01:50:17 okay 01:50:18 can do 01:50:35 also you need a way to introduce one anyhow. def is fine for that. 01:50:44 set will introduce if it doesn't find on 01:50:45 e 01:51:23 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:51:24 ok 01:51:25 testing it 01:51:34 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:51:48 oerjan: there you go 01:51:57 hm? 01:52:05 i changed set to do that 01:52:06 :) 01:52:11 > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 01:52:12 #function:37 01:52:18 > (set f (counter 42)) 01:52:18 #function:41 01:52:19 it searches down until it finds a var, if it doesn't find one, it creates one in the current scope 01:52:28 i can't think when you'd need to just define a var, so :) 01:52:31 (f) 01:52:35 > (f) 01:52:35 43 01:52:36 > (f) 01:52:36 43 01:52:40 wtf :| 01:52:48 oh 01:52:48 duh 01:53:02 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:53:05 fixed. 01:53:14 -!- lithpbot has joined. 01:53:24 oerjan: so when would you want to define a var but not set it? 01:53:29 > (def counter (a) (set x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 01:53:29 #function:37 01:53:32 > (set f (counter 42)) 01:53:33 #function:41 01:53:34 > (f) 01:53:34 43 01:53:36 > (f) 01:53:36 44 01:53:37 it's just a matter of hygiene 01:53:38 yay!! 01:53:39 > x 01:53:40 (err) unbound: x 01:53:42 > a 01:53:42 (err) unbound: a 01:53:56 oerjan: ok, well "def" defines functions 01:54:01 > (set f (counter 9)) 01:54:01 #function:55 01:54:02 oerjan: give me a name for 'make var, but don't set it' 01:54:08 > (f) 01:54:08 10 01:54:13 argh! 01:54:17 oh 01:54:18 sorry 01:54:18 ? 01:54:21 i messed up 01:54:26 heh ok 01:54:29 but, yeah, give me a name 01:54:32 and i'll make it 01:54:34 > (set g (counter 50)) 01:54:35 #function:62 01:54:36 also, it has to set the var somehow 01:54:39 so it's in its table 01:54:41 > (g) 01:54:42 51 01:54:43 > (f) 01:54:43 > (f) 01:54:43 11 01:54:44 12 01:54:48 > (g) 01:54:48 52 01:54:49 > (g) 01:54:50 53 01:54:51 so yeah that works 01:54:52 yay 01:54:56 but, what should it set it to? 01:54:57 0? 01:55:03 it has to set it for it to get in the table 01:55:31 it's not about not setting 01:55:39 what does defvar do then 01:56:42 it's about not confusing local and global variables by accident 01:57:25 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.-------------------------------------------------------------------.------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.-------------------------------------------------------------------. 01:57:28 Hello, world! 01:57:34 oerjan: so tell me what it should do! 01:57:39 what does defvar do, exactly 01:57:41 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>+++++++.<+++.>----------------------------------------------------------------.------------.<++++++++.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++.------.<-------------------.>- 01:57:42 --------------------------------------------------------------------------. 01:57:44 fuck 01:57:45 Hello, world 01:57:49 the basic idea for this being that set should _never_ create a new variable, while def always should unless there already is one in the exactly same scope 01:57:58 okay 01:58:02 so what should def set the var to? 01:58:27 ah 01:58:27 (def x 1) would set it to 1 01:58:34 *defvar 01:58:36 def is for functions 01:59:05 in scheme, define is for both 01:59:10 this isn't scheme 01:59:47 although think about it, you can get around the need for defvar with some lambda trickery 02:01:01 so 02:01:08 tell me what def should do in pseudocode 02:01:10 > (def counter2 (a) (lambda (x) ((lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x) x))) 02:01:10 #function:94 02:01:32 (set h (counter2 3)) 02:01:36 > (set h (counter2 3)) 02:01:36 #function:9e 02:01:43 > (h) 02:01:43 (err) need 1 args, got 0 02:01:58 huh? 02:02:13 counter2 returns a lambda 02:02:19 lambda need to be given arguments 02:02:29 oh wait 02:02:35 so, can you tell me what def does 02:02:36 thank you 02:02:38 i need to go like no 02:02:39 w 02:02:55 > (def counter2 (a) ((lambda (x) ((lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) x)) 02:02:56 (err) unmatched ( 02:03:14 oerjan!!! 02:03:18 what does def do?????? 02:03:27 > (def counter2 (a) ((lambda (x) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) x)) 02:03:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:03:32 damn 02:03:43 you made it gc 02:03:44 :P 02:03:59 def introduces a new variable unless there is one in exactly the same scope 02:04:29 introduce 02:04:30 define introduce 02:04:33 set to something? 02:04:41 and if there is one in the same scope what does it do? 02:04:42 yes 02:04:46 if i know these two things, i can do it 02:04:51 then it just sets that instead 02:04:59 !bf +++++++[>+>+++<<-]>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.------------.>++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<+.>>++++++++++. 02:05:01 Hello, world! 02:05:05 okay, oerjan 02:05:06 I will do that 02:05:22 ok the A* - closed list part works :) 02:05:32 (where - is without) 02:05:46 that part of the A* algorithm introduces more overhead than it does good in this case 02:07:14 ok, oerjan 02:07:14 done 02:07:15 and it's like 1000 times faster than my old lisp implementation 02:07:18 and also added -, *, / 02:07:21 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:07:29 (/ 1 0) 02:07:33 > (/ 1 0) 02:07:33 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:07:36 hahaharigjdiogj 02:07:42 ;) 02:08:12 fixed 02:08:20 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:08:21 > (set a 2) 02:08:22 (err) unbound: a 02:08:29 > (def a 2) 02:08:29 (err) need at least 3 args, got 2 02:08:31 oh 02:09:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:09:36 ok oerjan, here we go 02:09:42 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:09:43 > (set var 2) 02:09:44 (err) unbound: var 02:09:47 > (def var 2) 02:09:48 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:09:50 AUWRHUIASDHSAD 02:10:03 * oerjan calls the acronym police 02:10:05 i did eval 02:10:07 instead of leval 02:10:13 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:10:13 > (set var 2) 02:10:14 (err) unbound: var 02:10:16 > (def var 2) 02:10:17 2 02:10:22 > (set var 3) 02:10:22 3 02:10:26 > (def var 2) 02:10:26 2 02:10:38 wait 02:10:41 i'll rewrite counter 02:10:51 > (def counter (a) (def x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 02:10:51 (err) def takes 2 arguments if not defining func 02:10:56 oh damnit 02:11:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:11:27 almost there now :) 02:11:42 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:11:43 > (def counter (a) (def x a) (lambda () (set x (+ x 1)) x)) 02:11:43 #function:3d 02:11:50 > (set f (counter 3)) 02:11:50 (err) unbound: f 02:11:55 > (def f (counter 3)) 02:11:55 #function:52 02:11:57 > (f) 02:11:57 4 02:11:58 > (f) 02:11:58 5 02:12:00 > (f) 02:12:00 6 02:12:04 > (/ 1 0) 02:12:04 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:12:09 What. 02:12:26 Fixing 02:12:27 yay 02:12:34 btw didn't you have to go? 02:12:37 -!- lithpbot has joined. 02:12:38 yes i do :| 02:12:39 > (/ 1 0) 02:12:44 > (/ 1 0) 02:12:44 (err) divide by zero 02:12:47 > (/ 0 1) 02:12:47 0 02:12:53 > (* 5 2) 02:12:55 10 02:12:59 > (+ 1 2 3) 02:13:00 6 02:13:04 OKAY 02:13:05 finally 02:13:08 i'm going 02:13:16 bye 02:13:17 tomorrow: persistance of memor 02:13:17 y 02:13:19 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:14:23 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:27:18 !bf ++++++++++[->>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++[<]<]>>>>>>>++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.<<++++.<++.>>>++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.<<<+.<<. 02:27:21 Hello, world! 02:27:35 Hello, EgoBot! 02:27:44 that's a rather long hello world 02:27:57 the first part is a stupid hardcoded value 02:28:10 "++++++++++[->>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++[<]<]" that part 02:28:15 yeah 02:28:33 but when you start with that part you shouldn't be able to get below 168 bytes 02:28:39 that's pretty much what my greedy algorithm is like 02:28:49 mine isn't greedy 02:28:53 except it tries more possibilities for the factor 02:29:03 orly? 02:29:16 i use a modified A* so it is optimal 02:29:22 A*? 02:29:24 code plz 02:29:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm 02:30:13 but my heuristic is pretty bad atm so it isn't as fast as it could be 02:30:21 hmm 02:30:32 i don't feel like understanding that now 02:31:12 all posibilities to print the string using ><+-. given a initial pointer position and memory state represent a graph 02:31:28 where each edge represents the printing of one character 02:32:24 you can assign weights to the edges... the number of chars it takes to output that character 02:32:41 ostensibly it looks like A* is what i needed 02:32:48 then you can use any algorithm to search the shortest path in a graph to get the optimal code for that initial memory state 02:33:09 i searched that tree by brute force 02:33:33 ouch 02:33:44 yeah 02:33:44 that tree is pretty large 02:34:00 hence the 460 year hello world 02:35:10 i skipped the part witht he closed list because i was lazy and skipping that part can't result in a wrong result 02:35:12 it only makes it slower 02:35:26 and it's fast enough right now 02:36:05 i wonder what the best way to choose the initial state is 02:36:42 i was think try all possibilities of evenly distributed ints in largestchar-smallestchar of the input string 02:37:32 smaller than smallest char might even be better 02:37:38 why? 02:37:47 try to output 13 02:37:59 huh? 02:38:09 i hope that number was the right one 02:38:32 +++[->++++<]>+. is shorter than +++++++[->++<]>-. 02:38:43 hmm 02:38:44 the first one generates 12 (which is below the char 13) 02:39:11 and if you have the string 13,50,30,60 it would be bad to not generate the 13 using 3*4+1 02:39:44 well, what i was doing tried up to 8 factors of [2, 256] 02:39:52 and picked the shortest 02:40:56 if you had a small way to generate them you could do the most common letters in the string 02:42:40 you might go backwards - find the initial state that makes the rest shortest 02:42:52 (of some length) 02:44:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:47:31 !bf +++++++++[->++++++++>+++++<<]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>++++++++++. 02:47:35 Hello, world! 02:47:51 !bf +++++++++[->++++++++>+++++>+<<<]>.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. 02:47:55 Hello, world! 03:17:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:18:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:26:28 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 04:01:27 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 04:05:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:16:18 -!- cherez has joined. 06:44:47 -!- bsmntbom1dood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:47:20 -!- bsmntbom1dood has joined. 07:22:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:33:29 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:09:53 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:44:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:04:28 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:13:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:37:22 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:39:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:52:49 -!- lament has joined. 11:53:47 -!- jix has joined. 11:54:37 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:19:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:21:58 !bf +++++++++[->+++++++++++>++++++++>+++++>+<<<<]>>.<++.+++++++..+++.>>-.------------.<<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>>+.>+. 12:22:01 Hello, world! 12:23:41 !bf 12:23:41 ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>->+>>+[<]<-]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++. 12:24:02 !bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>->+>>+[<]<-]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++. 12:24:06 Hello World! 12:24:28 i know my textgen isn't perfect yet ;) 12:24:37 Neither am I :) 12:25:44 but i haven't implemented nested loops for the first part yet 12:35:43 !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<] 12:35:45 ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++ 12:36:10 !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<] 12:36:14 ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++ 12:36:22 Hm, that's odd. 12:38:46 !bf 124 (140): ++++++++++[->+++++++>++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<<]>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.<++++.>>++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 12:38:49 Hello, world! 12:39:10 !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++. 12:39:13 ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++ 12:39:28 ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++. 12:39:40 !bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<+++++++++.<]++++++++++. 12:39:44 ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]<++ 12:42:07 maybe egobot has a line length limit? 12:43:56 !bf >>>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<<<++++[>++++++++++[>++++++++++[>.<-]<-]<-] 12:44:00 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 12:44:01 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:44:20 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:44:36 Yup. 381 characters. 12:44:50 That quine is 392. 12:44:52 make it shorter then ;) 12:44:58 :| 12:45:04 You. 12:45:07 :) 12:47:05 !bf 12:47:20 !bf 12:47:24 Hm, that doesn't work. 12:48:34 !bf [ 12:48:54 !bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 12:48:58 0 12:49:08 !bf ] 12:49:14 !bf_textgen Hello, world! 12:49:17 Huh? 12:49:23 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 12:49:39 !help 12:49:44 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 12:49:45 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 12:50:18 121 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++><<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [205] 12:50:28 uh that one is stupid >< 12:51:46 ah it doesn't include the newline 12:51:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:52:00 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:59:02 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:05:42 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:24:07 -!- oklopl has joined. 13:27:17 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:27:20 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:28:21 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:33:47 !bf +++++++++++++++[->+++++>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<<]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>>-.<++.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+. 13:33:49 Hello, world! 13:34:01 my best one without \n so far 13:34:53 !bf +++[->+++++<]>[->+++++>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<<]>---.>----.+++++++..+++.>>>-.<++.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+. 13:34:57 Hello, world! 13:35:04 and some manual tweeking makes it even better 13:38:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:39:52 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:48:59 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:49:08 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:58:53 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 14:06:37 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:18:30 !bf +++++++[->++++++[->++>++>+<<<]>-->+++>-[<]<]>>++.>.>--. 14:18:34 Hi! 14:40:37 !bf ++++++++++[->+++++[->+>++>++>++>+<<<<<]>++>>+>++>->+++[<]<]>>++.>+.>--..+++.>>++++.>++.<<-.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>>+. 14:40:42 Hello, world! 14:40:45 but without newline 14:43:50 !bf 113 (134): ++++++++[->+++++[->++>++>+++>+>+<<<<<]>->+++>>-[<]<]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>>++++.<.<-.<.>-----.<---.--------.>>+. 14:43:54 Hello, world! 14:51:01 !bf ++++++[->++++++[->++>+++>+++>+++>+>+<<<<<<]>>->>++>+[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>>++.>----.<<-.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>>+. 14:51:04 Hello, world! 14:54:02 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:57:53 with newline: 14:57:55 !bf 119 (136): ++++++[->+++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>--. 14:57:58 ouch 14:58:30 that's not hello world 14:58:47 !bf ++++++[->+++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>--. 14:58:50 hum 14:59:31 ah found the bug i think 14:59:54 !bf +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>->>+>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>-.------------.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>+.>+. 14:59:58 Hello, world! 15:00:01 better :) 15:02:28 not shorter than dbc's but it takes only 15 secs to generate that 15:05:48 wait dbc's generates a different output 15:06:24 yeah i'm getting that down to 106 bytes too ^^ 15:08:11 but that seems to be some magicall limit 15:08:40 it reaches 106 pretty fast and then stalls 15:10:53 !bf +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>>>->>+[<]<]>>.>>++.<..+++.>>----.+++.<.<++++.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.------.>--.>+. 15:10:58 Hello #esoteric! 15:15:56 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:16:09 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:47:36 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:48:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:53:30 -!- oklopl has joined. 15:54:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:59:18 !bf +++++[->+++++[->++>++<<]>->>++[<]<]>>>+.<+.+++.>+.<.>+.++++.<+.++++.-.--.++.+++.>.<-.>.>. 15:59:22 3.14159265358979 16:02:51 -!- Nucleo has quit ("Snak 5.3.1 IRC for Macintosh - http://www.snak.com"). 16:08:37 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:08:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:16:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:17:41 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:19:36 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:26:32 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:28:01 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:30:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:33:03 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:43:03 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:45:43 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:55:25 I borrowed the exact output text from Urban Müller's hello world. 16:57:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:58:22 (capital W and no comma, that is) 16:59:46 oklopol: hello 17:01:46 dbc: i'm able to get down to 106 bytes with that too... but not smaller 17:02:01 dbc: true hello world is: Hello, world! 17:02:02 ;) 17:03:01 !bf 106 (127): ++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+<<<<]>+>->+>>+[<]<]>>.>>---.+++++++..+++.>.<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>++. 17:03:04 Hello World! 17:03:06 that's my version 17:03:20 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 17:03:30 !help 17:03:34 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 17:03:36 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 17:03:38 !bf_txtgen x 17:03:42 ehird`: it takes some time 17:03:52 and it doesn't include the final newline 17:03:56 does it not? 17:03:57 damn 17:04:22 35 ++++++++++++[>++++++++++>>><<<<-]>. [43] 17:04:26 117 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>>++.<++++.<++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>+. [691] 17:04:34 ... the second one is x 17:04:40 hello world is tiny and "x" is huge XD 17:04:52 wiat 17:04:52 no 17:04:55 the former is x 17:06:00 !bf 118 (140): +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+>+<<<<<]>>->>+>>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>-.>----.<<++++++++.--------.+++.------.<-.>>>+.>+. 17:06:04 Hello, world! 17:06:06 with final newline 17:07:12 !bf 116 (160): +++++++++[->++++[->++>+++>+++>+++>+<<<<<]>>->>+>+>+[<]<]>>.>++.>..+++.>>-.------------.<++.<.>-----.<---.<-.>>>+.>+. 17:07:16 Hello, world! 17:08:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 17:09:29 hi, everyone! 17:12:38 !bf ++++++++[->+++++[->>++>+++>+++>+>+>++<<<<<<<]>+>->->-->+>-[<]<]>>>.>>+.>----.>.>++.<<<<-.>-----.+++.--.<+++.>>>>++.<<<+++.---.<<-.>.>.----.<++.<<++. 17:12:42 Hi, RodgerTheGreat 17:12:47 :) 17:13:34 wahoo got a new shorter hello world!!! 17:13:49 106 was the old record right? 17:14:07 !bf 104 (109): ++++++[->++++++[->++>+++>+++>+>++<<<<<]>>->>->++>++[<]<]>>.>-.>..+++.>++.>+++.<<.+++.------.<-.>>+.>>--. 17:14:11 Hello World! 17:14:18 I dunno 17:14:30 don't most of them generate the string "Hello, World!" ? 17:14:51 RodgerTheGreat: the 106 byte version generates "Hello World!" same for the original bf hello world (according to dbc) 17:15:12 and most generate "Hello, world!\n" this one generates "Hello World!\n" 17:15:57 "Hello, world!\n" is grammatically and unixly correct 17:16:16 but i was trying to get shorter than dbc's so i have to use the same output 17:16:21 unless Hello World is a name or title 17:16:22 ehird`: agreed 17:17:05 * ehird` wonders what to name the equality predicate in his lisp 17:17:09 eq, equals, =? 17:17:43 equ? 17:18:05 sounds foreign 17:18:19 (eq 1 2) (equals 1 2) (= 1 2) 17:18:36 (eq '(1 2) '(3 4)) (equals '(1 2) '(3 4)) (= '(1 2) '(3 4)) 17:19:07 RodgerTheGreat: it's a rather 'unique' lisp in that it's implemented in Python but I wrote my own GC ;D 17:19:23 equ is what I use in several of my languages 17:19:32 interesting 17:19:53 it's a rather dumb stop-the-world mark and sweep gc 17:20:05 it runs every 200 object allocations. 17:22:30 it'd be interesting if you exposed some of the GC's parameters to programs 17:22:38 like what 17:23:02 like the number of object allocations it waits for 17:23:15 ah 17:23:27 IMO the gc is an implementation detial 17:23:29 *detail 17:23:29 :-) 17:23:38 (so is memory allocation) 17:23:54 I suppose, but you could allow for greater performance tweaking 17:24:56 dude 17:24:58 it runs on python 17:25:04 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:25:05 the gc cant even free because you can't free in python 17:25:09 it just removes it from the big list 17:25:14 which python's gc eventually collects 17:25:18 it's sloooooow 17:25:19 :) 17:25:21 > 2 17:25:21 2 17:25:27 > (+ 5 4 1) 17:25:29 10 17:25:34 > (/ 1 0) 17:25:35 (err) divide by zero 17:25:37 > (/ 0 1) 17:25:37 0 17:25:55 > (eq 1 1) 17:25:55 1 17:25:57 > (eq 1 0) 17:25:57 0 17:26:00 > (eq 1 1 1 1) 17:26:00 1 17:26:01 > (eq 1 1 1 1 0) 17:26:02 0 17:26:44 > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 17:26:45 #function:83 17:26:52 > (fact 1) 17:26:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:26:56 hah 17:27:04 hmm 17:27:08 it caused the gc to die 17:27:09 ah, i see 17:27:12 i have a bug in the gc 17:27:46 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:27:47 > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 17:27:47 #function:41 17:27:50 > (fact 1) 17:27:52 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:27:56 ... wow 17:28:00 it went on a gc spree 17:28:10 doing god knows what 17:30:03 let's try taht again :) 17:30:06 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:30:08 > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 17:30:08 #function:41 17:30:11 > (fact 1) 17:30:17 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:30:23 maximum recursion depth 17:30:23 :| 17:30:59 debug time 17:31:07 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:31:08 > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 17:31:08 #function:41 17:31:17 > (fact 1) 17:31:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:31:52 ... 17:31:52 Call #function:41 with [-29] 17:31:52 ... 17:31:54 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm :P 17:32:10 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:32:18 > (def isone (n) (eq n 1) 17:32:19 (err) unmatched ( 17:32:22 > (def isone (n) (eq n 1)) 17:32:22 #function:38 17:32:25 > (isone 1) 17:32:25 0 17:32:30 loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool? 17:32:42 > (eq 1 1) 17:32:42 1 17:32:47 Nonsensical 17:33:13 aha 17:33:15 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:33:18 silly me 17:33:26 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:33:27 > (def fact (n) (if (eq n 1) 1 (* n (fact (- n 1))))) 17:33:27 #function:41 17:33:30 > (fact 1) 17:33:30 1 17:33:37 > (fact 2) 17:33:38 2 17:33:39 > (fact 4) 17:33:40 24 17:33:51 > (fact 10) 17:33:52 3628800 17:33:57 wow, that's pretty fast 17:34:10 > (fact 30) 17:34:11 265252859812191058636308480000000L 17:41:13 > evak 17:41:13 (err) unbound: evak 17:41:15 > eval 17:41:15 #native-function:13 17:41:17 > (eval 2) 17:41:17 2 17:41:18 > (eval '2) 17:41:19 (err) unbound: '2 17:41:26 > (eval (quote (eval 2))) 17:41:26 (eval 2) 17:43:46 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:44:07 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:44:09 > (eval (quote (eval 2))) 17:44:09 2 17:46:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:47:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:47:23 > (set a 2) 17:47:23 (err) unbound: a 17:47:33 > (define a 2) (set a 5) a 17:47:34 5 17:48:43 > (or 0 0 0 2) 17:48:43 0 17:48:46 wtf 17:48:56 oh 17:49:13 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:49:24 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:49:42 > (or 0 0 0 2) 17:49:42 2 17:49:47 > (or 2 0) 17:49:47 2 17:49:50 > 02 17:49:51 2 17:49:55 > (and 0 0) 17:49:56 0 17:49:58 > (and 1 0) 17:49:58 1 17:50:00 oh. 17:50:20 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:31 -!- lithpbot has joined. 17:51:18 > (and 1 0) 17:51:18 0 17:51:20 > (and 1 1) 17:51:21 1 17:51:25 > (and 1 2) 17:51:25 2 17:57:45 > (and 0 2) 17:57:46 0 17:57:51 > (and 0 (/ 1 0)) 17:57:51 0 17:57:55 hmm 17:57:58 that should give an error 17:58:02 shouldn't 17:58:02 > (/ 1 0) 17:58:02 (err) divide by zero 17:58:07 > (and 0 (/ 1 0)) 17:58:08 0 17:58:09 yeah 17:58:12 the error should bubble up 17:58:13 (at least i expect and to short cut) 17:58:18 oh 17:58:18 right 17:58:19 yes 17:58:24 you're right 17:58:25 :P 17:59:54 i'm silly 18:00:05 i'm naming my auto-saving-to-disk InterpreterState replacement AutoPickleIntepreterState3000 :) 18:08:28 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:19:46 72/XEKOIE9yBDG3+6m8G8UrDt0Tm9iNTWg 18:33:10 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:33:20 -!- jix has joined. 18:42:16 back 18:42:25 bsmntbombdood: whut 18:45:46 lisp object = symbol | cons pair | string | number, right? 18:47:02 function 18:47:08 vector 18:47:10 port 18:47:28 ah yes, lambda 18:47:38 i think i can pass on vectors :| 18:47:43 ports, maybe, but probably not needed 18:47:47 null 18:47:55 nil is the empty list 18:47:58 But yeah 18:48:08 and you didn't have lists 18:48:35 yeah well 18:48:38 lists = cons pairs 18:48:40 though i may change that 18:48:44 wrong 18:48:48 null isn't a pair 18:48:53 lists = well formed cons pairs + nil 18:49:05 yes 18:49:11 although, i may represent them as python lists [1,2,3] 18:49:17 cheaper than linked list operations 18:49:24 (Though the slicing for cdr would be slow. 18:49:54 boolean, symbol, char, vector, procedure, pair, number, string, port 18:50:02 are scheme's types 18:50:13 + null 18:50:47 scheme != list 18:50:48 :P 18:50:50 er 18:50:51 ? 18:50:52 lisp 18:50:55 scheme != lisp 18:51:00 it is a lisp dialect 18:51:02 right, scheme \subset lisp 18:51:07 not really 18:51:11 it's a superset and a subset 18:51:19 scheme \wonky-thing lisp 18:51:29 "lisp" is nothing but dialects 18:51:36 :) 18:51:44 not in the 70s! 18:52:05 yes... 18:52:40 but anyway, i'm not sure i need booleans 18:52:47 if NIL is false and everything else is true 18:52:55 (i guess T will be a self-evaluating symbol too) 18:53:07 yeah, cl doesn't have booleans 18:53:12 then again 18:53:15 I find nil/t kind of ugly 18:53:20 #t and #f is much nicer 18:53:31 how does scheme do characters? the syntax 18:53:45 #\ 18:53:56 is that related to #t and #f in any way? 18:54:03 ? 18:54:27 the syntax 18:54:41 sure, the both start with # 18:54:50 i mean conceptually 18:54:50 :P 18:54:57 no 18:55:22 vectors start with # too 18:55:30 i've never got why scheme needed vectors 18:55:40 uhhhhhhh 18:55:45 i mean natively 18:55:52 they don't seem important enough to become a core type 18:56:04 because there's no way to implement any O(1) access time collections without them 18:56:10 duh 18:56:28 so basically vectors are an implementation detail kind of thing 18:56:37 no... 18:56:39 'our lists aren't arrays of memory, but we have a vector that is!' 19:01:02 anyway, let's see 19:01:09 i think i need ports, so 19:01:29 SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, NUMBER, PORT, NIL 19:01:37 bsmntbombdood: do you really think anything else is useful? 19:01:56 chars, vectors 19:02:07 oh, booleans too 19:02:09 ok, and chars 19:02:16 but i really don't know why i would want vectors? 19:02:24 can you tell me a situation where they are really infinitely useful? 19:02:34 but really all you need to implement at first is pairs, symbols and fucntions 19:02:53 you can't implement hash tables, arrays without vectors 19:03:00 ok, i guess 19:03:11 no collection can have better than linear time indexing 19:03:19 a vector is just a list that is an array of memory, right? nothing extra? 19:03:36 a vector is a C array 19:03:45 right 19:03:46 a list with linear time indexing 19:03:52 *constant 19:04:33 anyway, i know the standard functions for lists (car, cdr, cons, set-cdr, set-car, etc.) and numbers (well duh), but what about for ports and vectors? 19:04:37 what are the standard functions and their names? 19:04:58 write-char, read-char 19:05:26 yeah 19:05:30 what about vectors? 19:05:45 call-with-input-port, call-with-output-port for opening files 19:06:03 wait, is that for vectors? 19:06:04 vector-ref, vector, make-vector, vector-set! 19:06:08 ah 19:06:16 i think I will start with these: 19:06:24 SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, CHAR, NUMBER, BOOLEAN, FUNCTION, NIL 19:06:29 i'll leave out ports and vectors until later 19:08:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:12:11 bsmntbombdood: do you think my errors should be first-class? 19:12:19 i could do things like implement try-catch then 19:13:11 o 19:13:23 -!- oklopol has left (?). 19:13:23 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:13:33 * oklopol needs logs... 19:13:44 oklopol: hello 19:13:51 oklopol: i'm rewriting my lisp, again 19:13:52 but cleanl 19:13:53 y 19:14:06 i ditched multiple classes, now I just have a LispObject class 19:14:53 hehe, i see 19:15:00 but now logs. 19:15:30 :P 19:17:22 bsmntbombdood: any opinions? 19:21:58 bsmntbombdood: :S 19:25:13 finally 19:25:34 i guess i should start skipping the debugging parts of logs :) 19:26:31 oklopol: haha 19:26:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:27:52 oklopol: should i make lisp errors first-class lisp objects? 19:28:43 oklopol: or... nothing 19:28:47 i.e. just python exceptions 19:28:51 lisp objects would be cooler :P 19:30:47 i like having errors first class 19:30:55 in numbda, some syntax errors are first class. 19:31:18 you can do (8 8) + 4 19:31:22 8 8 is a syntax error 19:31:36 error evaluates to 0 19:32:03 lmao 19:32:08 no i mean 19:32:13 i know what you mean 19:32:13 it still throws by default 19:32:18 but you can catch it 19:32:20 and manipulate it in lisp 19:32:24 yeah 19:33:58 does your lisp have floats or whatever? 19:33:59 or just ints 19:35:01 hmm, i'm pretty sure it doesn't have floats if it doesn't have strings 19:35:04 but not sure 19:35:52 oklopol: should i have error types and descriptions or just errors 19:35:55 something like 19:36:08 "type=int-error, message=divide by zero" 19:36:18 instead of just "message=divide by zero" 19:36:42 just make one error type unless you have a more flexible type system overall 19:36:48 err i mean extendable 19:37:13 i don't see any point making error types really 19:37:21 unless you can define your own 19:37:32 since you can't pattern match on them or anything 19:37:36 also asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasd 19:37:58 tomorrow, test @ university, and i still gotta return my demos tonight. 19:38:13 i'm so tired i can barely keep my eyes opn 19:38:21 *nop 19:38:24 x 19:38:25 D 19:38:27 *xD 19:41:48 also, for some reason i'm going to watch a few episodes of south park first. 19:55:21 bsmntbombdood: are characters automatically casted to strings in scheme? 20:21:54 oklopol: otools, what is it 20:33:31 otools is something i use for parsing 20:33:56 it basically does tokenization, and there may be an infix parser, don't remember 20:34:24 oh 20:34:30 it provides my Itr class 20:34:38 that's basically StringIO 20:35:13 made my own, stringio lacked something, don't remember what 20:35:19 .curr() 20:35:24 anyway, i'm writing a "tokentools" right now :) 20:35:29 it does tokenization and also some parsing helpers 20:35:43 e.g. an accept([tok,tok,tok...]) method 20:36:01 what i'd actually like is something like StringTokenizer in java 20:36:23 although you could improve it a lot. 20:36:34 mine is kind of like that 20:36:50 it's very flexible as far as where it splits actually 20:37:06 you give it a function to tell it whether a character is a splitter or not 20:37:14 and also ignores multiple splitters in a row 20:37:22 err kay... 20:37:33 basically it tokenizes and helps a lot with parsing 20:37:43 why not give it a regexp representing a token? 20:37:48 and split by that. 20:38:09 because you can pass it str.isspaec 20:38:12 *isspace 20:38:13 :-) 20:38:22 k 20:38:31 so you can't do like 4+5 20:38:40 or even (4 + 5) 20:38:49 yeah you can 20:38:53 oh 20:38:54 i see. 20:38:59 well not relaly 20:38:59 lambda x: x.isspace() or x == "+" 20:39:02 *really 20:39:12 :O 20:39:29 so... 4+5 would be ["4", "5"] and ignore the addition symbol? 20:39:54 oh 20:39:57 hmm 20:40:02 ok, it'll hvae 20:40:03 or alternatively you'd have "4 5" be tokenized into ["4", " ", "5"], in case you save the separators as well 20:40:06 splittokens and ignoretokens 20:40:21 i think you need to think this through a bit ;) 20:40:22 Tokenizer(blah, x.isspace, lambda x: x == "+") 20:40:22 well 20:40:29 of course depends what you wanna use it for. 20:40:33 + is a splitter and gets added on 20:40:34 isspace isn't 20:41:37 seems a bit hacky to me, but it seems to work for most grammars 20:41:42 hmm hmm 20:42:01 oh, yeah, the demos 20:42:10 i'm not sure if that's the right word 20:42:30 ok 20:42:33 how should i do it then 20:42:38 to make 5+4 work 20:42:59 yours will actually tokenize most things correct. 20:43:33 how should i do it though in your opinion 20:43:33 ;) 20:43:40 the problem with not using regexes is stuff that can be of any length naturally can't be parsed trivially, like numbers & identifiers 20:43:53 but you rarely have those next to each other without a space in between 20:44:14 the only stuff not always separated by ws are operators and parens, i think 20:44:33 and what you thought of making actually parses that quite nicely 20:44:35 *tokenizes 20:44:59 how about i just return delimiters 20:45:03 seems ok, no? 20:45:04 i'm not telling you what to do, just analyzing that for fun; also, demos 20:45:07 hmm 20:45:15 java lets you do that 20:45:18 just return delimiters? 20:45:24 hmmm 20:45:26 new StringTokenizer(blah, "abc", true) 20:45:32 third optional parameter is returnDelims 20:45:37 that's how you would e.g. parse sexprs 20:45:37 so 20:45:42 i'll just return 'em 20:45:45 it's not hard to do 20:45:50 if tok.isspace(): continue 20:46:57 oklopol: seems flexible enough, no? 20:47:23 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:47:24 very seems. 20:47:30 wanna do my demos for me? 20:47:42 demos? 20:48:08 these exercises we gotta do at home and demonstrate for the whole calssa 20:48:11 ...class 20:48:22 ah 20:48:50 oklopol: your lisp doesn't do tail recursion 20:48:54 no. 20:49:04 i couldn't think of a trivial way to do that 20:49:17 well... 20:49:31 i can now, i prolly could then too, but was too lazy even for that 20:49:38 while last_caller == self: ... 20:49:42 or rather 20:49:44 at the end 20:49:49 err 20:49:50 if eval(car) == self 20:49:55 then do nothing 20:49:57 else break 20:50:00 all wrapped in a while True: 20:50:07 hmm, you do know when tail recursion applies? 20:50:16 yeah 20:50:20 or was that just a simplification 20:50:21 prolly. 20:50:24 when you're at the end and there's a list with eval(car) == sel 20:50:24 f 20:50:32 end = end of execution, not function 20:50:33 almost. 20:51:44 you can just as well have circular recursion, and still have tail recursion 20:52:00 in fact, in some languages, you don't even need to recurse and still have tail recursion. 20:52:19 if you can do code generation @ runtime 20:53:14 i'm gonna start soon. 20:53:30 why not now... 20:53:51 because you're bored 20:53:54 and lazy 20:54:10 i'm not bored 20:54:23 lazy then 20:54:29 that goes without saying 20:55:13 glah, okay, i *have* to start them now; and i will! -> 20:56:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:58:24 -!- dak has joined. 20:58:58 * oklopol loves doing ascii karnaugh maps... 20:59:54 oklopol: i thought you were starting them 21:00:14 i did 21:00:21 that what the karnaugh map is for 21:00:28 ah 21:00:29 :P 21:03:13 i don't understand why we have to do this stuff, base-10 addition is harder than boolean algebra 21:03:45 well i find base-10 addition really hard! i have 8 fingers! 21:05:35 -!- RedDak has quit (No route to host). 21:05:56 cl 22:10:10 5 22:10:58 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:18:16 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:43:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:51:41 Hi oerjan 22:52:43 * pikhq cleans up 10,000 blue voting credits 22:53:44 hello 22:55:40 I suppose no one's going to work on PSOX for me? lol 22:55:57 i thought you were so infatuated with it all you did was work on it :p 22:56:07 * Sgeo has become distracted from it :( 23:12:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:12:25 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:20:01 * pikhq has removed 10,000 blue voting credits from 10,000 CFJs 23:20:28 Shoobadafa. 23:23:02 is it possible to do a crossing in wireworld? 23:23:34 i remember trying to do it some time ago, but forgot to ask here where someone might actually know 23:27:06 oklopol: my lisp is going to have loads more things in this incarnation 23:27:26 currently i have symbol, cons, string, character, number, boolean, procedure, primitive, error, nil 23:27:31 and i plan to add port and vector 23:28:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:30:22 bindings[LispObject(SYMBOL, "prim_name")] = LispObject(PRIMITIVE, prim_func, (min, max)) # is a bit ugly though 23:35:47 and you use port for..? 23:36:01 umm 23:36:02 scheme ports 23:36:05 i actually don't know what that is in lisp at all, perhaps i should check instead of guessing. 23:36:07 stdin, stdout, files, streams, ... 23:36:12 okay, i did know 23:36:13 basically it's a stream 23:36:18 a socket would also be a port, for example 23:36:26 yeah i guessed then 23:36:40 anyways, what are you using them for? 23:36:41 hey 23:37:00 um 23:37:00 i just realized your lisp isn't made just for an irc bot, i just wanted you to put it on one. 23:37:01 ports 23:37:01 :P 23:37:07 and yeah 23:37:08 :P 23:37:15 i'm a slow realizer. 23:37:25 this time i'm going to create a seperate program for the bot 23:37:28 i couldn't make one of the assignments :<< 23:37:30 and make it call out to the lisp one 23:37:32 exercises 23:37:33 whatever 23:37:44 yeah, that's bettah 23:37:45 so i don't add irc-specific stuff to the interp 23:37:49 and also if it crashes 23:37:50 the bot doesn't 23:44:31 ehird`: you could create an irc module or something to load 23:45:29 oerjan: possibly 23:45:33 but, meh 2007-11-05: 00:05:57 bsmntbombdood: are characters automatically casted to strings in scheme? 00:05:58 no 00:06:23 ok 00:15:27 holy shit 00:15:40 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/flames1.jpg 00:15:55 Now you're thinking with Portals. 00:16:07 heh 00:17:05 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/flames2.jpg 00:17:43 i was expecting a picture of some circular blue flames 00:17:45 i was disappointed 00:17:55 bsmntbom1dood: that's unbelievably cool 00:18:18 ehird`: oviform yellow flames aren't good enough? 00:18:31 bsmntbombdood: PORTALS REQUIRE OTHER PORTALS. 00:18:37 BLUE-COLOURED ONES. 00:18:45 OTHERWISE HOW WILL YOU WALK THROUGH THEM. 00:18:57 89 00:42:01 -!- ihope has joined. 00:42:44 oklopol: the core is done 00:42:49 all that's left is primitives 00:44:00 Apparently, the name "Elliot" is just about as common as the name "Elliott". 00:44:13 Nobody in the United States is named Tedd. 00:45:41 I get called Elliot 00:45:44 Sometimes even Eliott 00:45:47 In one or two cases, Eliot 00:46:30 Neither of the one-L variations are listed here: http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/dist.male.first 00:46:43 (Which obviously contains the names of everybody in the United States, right?) 00:46:57 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:47:34 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:47:34 Obviously :P 00:47:40 >2 00:47:41 > 2 00:47:46 So much for that 00:48:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:48:32 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:48:33 > 2 00:48:34 2 00:48:40 Yay! (it's running a subprocess :)) 00:48:44 > (lambda () 2) 00:48:44 00:48:54 Oh... problem with running a subprocess 00:48:58 definitions won't be saved XD 00:49:02 never mind, i can pickle in the interpreter 00:49:06 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:49:08 damn 00:49:10 it crashed-erator 00:49:23 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:49:24 (error) Can't iterate over non-list 00:49:37 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:49:38 cons 00:49:49 That doesn't sound right. 00:49:54 indeed 00:49:56 let me check why 00:50:03 > (cons cons nil) 00:50:04 (error) Unbound variable cons 00:50:15 > (conth conth nil) 00:50:15 (error) Unbound variable conth 00:50:26 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:50:37 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:50:44 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:50:45 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:50:47 whoa 00:51:05 -!- lithpbot has joined. 00:51:05 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:51:06 (() 2) 00:51:06 () 00:51:08 (error) Can't iterate over non-list 00:51:46 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:51:46 (() 2) 00:51:47 () 00:51:50 oop 00:51:50 error 00:53:32 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:53:32 (() 2) 00:53:32 () 00:53:32 () 00:53:32 2 00:53:46 > ((lambda () 2)) 00:53:47 2 00:54:00 > (lambda) 00:54:00 (error) Got 0 args, min was 2 00:54:03 > (lambda ()) 00:54:03 (error) Got 1 args, min was 2 00:54:05 > (lambda () 2 3) 00:54:06 00:54:09 > ((lambda () 2 3)) 00:54:09 3 00:54:16 > lambda 00:54:16 00:54:22 > #t 00:54:23 #t 00:54:26 > #f 00:54:27 #f 00:54:35 > #\a 00:54:36 #\a 00:54:38 > #\ab 00:54:38 #\a 00:54:44 > "hello" 00:54:45 "hello" 00:54:50 > "hello world" 00:54:51 "hello world" 00:54:54 > "hello world \"string\"" 00:54:55 "hello world \"string\"" 00:54:58 > "hello world \"string\" \\a" 00:54:59 "hello world \"string\" \\a" 00:55:02 > "hello world \"string\" \\a \a" 00:55:02 "hello world \"string\" \\a a" 00:55:16 > 'x 00:55:17 (error) Unbound variable quote 00:55:36 ihope: one thing it really is missing syntax-wise is .-syntax 00:55:40 that is (a . b) (a b c . d) etc 00:57:05 > #antiquixoticism 00:57:13 Well, that didn't work. 00:57:16 why would it 00:57:24 what does #blah represent? nothing, it's meaningless 00:57:34 What's #\a? 00:57:38 the character a 00:57:39 as in scheme 00:57:42 Ah. 00:57:45 #t and #f are obviously true and false 00:57:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:58:09 > (cons 3 nil) 00:58:10 (error) Unbound variable cons 00:58:22 i only have lambda right now 00:58:31 haven't implemented any primitives yet (apart from of course lambda) 00:58:36 > #antiquixoticism 00:58:37 (error) Unknown #-syntax 00:58:39 good 00:58:45 ooh 00:58:45 wait 00:58:47 forgot self.fail 00:59:03 > #antiquixoticism 00:59:04 (error) while parsing: Unknown #-syntax 00:59:22 > ((lambda (lambda) lambda) 3) 00:59:31 thanks, you made it crash 00:59:32 [seriously thanks] 00:59:34 now i can fix the bug 00:59:35 :) 00:59:36 whatever it was 00:59:39 You're welcome :-) 00:59:58 hmm 00:59:59 odd 01:00:23 ah i see :P 01:00:28 > ((lambda (n) n) 2) 01:00:30 yep 01:00:34 funcalls are broken :D 01:00:36 i can fix that 01:02:35 > ((lambda (n) n) 2) 01:02:38 damni 01:02:42 > ((lambda (n) n) 2) 01:02:43 2 01:02:51 > ((lambda (lambda) lambda) 3) 01:02:52 3 01:02:55 Yay! 01:03:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:03:02 it does proper lexical scoping too 01:03:06 though you can't see that 01:03:10 since there is no define/set right now 01:03:25 > (((lambda (lambda) (lambda (lambda) 2)) 3) 4) 01:03:26 (error) Can't call non-procedure 3 01:03:30 Yay! 01:04:09 > ((lambda) 2) 01:04:10 (error) Got 0 args, min was 2 01:04:14 error handling works right, good :) 01:04:20 it's pretty solid 01:04:28 it's 373 lines of code, including the parser etc 01:04:37 types are: 01:04:42 Write that parser in Redivider! :-) 01:04:48 SYMBOL, CONS, STRING, CHARACTER, NUMBER, BOOLEAN, PROCEDURE, PRIMITIVE, ERROR, NILT 01:04:55 and i'm going to add PORT and VECTOR soon 01:06:21 and heh 01:06:25 but i want a lisp in python 01:06:26 :P 01:06:57 anyway 01:07:01 i'll write primitives tomorrow 01:07:03 see you :) 01:07:06 Bye. 01:08:05 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:08:12 -!- lithpbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:14:02 @@ @read @elite @run wordsWise (map reverse) @show @keal 01:14:15 * oerjan runs after Wong with an axe 01:15:06 Does that make sense? 01:15:26 actually i switched @read and @elite 01:15:35 as for the output, certainly not :D 01:20:07 Plugin `compose' failed with: Prelude.read: no parse 01:20:35 Oh, swapping them yields sense. 01:21:07 yeah, @read needs a well-formed "string" 01:21:18 which @elite certainly does not give 01:21:34 So it grabs a Keal quote, reverses every word, and leets the thing? 01:21:40 yep 02:03:25 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 02:04:08 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 03:20:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:21:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:37:44 wtf 03:37:53 oklopol: i got a 50% on that essay you read 03:39:03 did you write an essay about brainfuck? 03:39:54 no, aids 03:40:29 Everyone's got AIDS! 03:40:46 not yet 03:40:58 (the musical) 03:42:45 pool's closed 03:43:24 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:44:15 lament: i know, i know, not esoteric 04:21:46 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:48:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:50:24 -!- ^_` has joined. 04:50:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 04:50:41 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 05:05:51 -!- ^_` has joined. 05:06:11 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:06:13 -!- ^_` has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 05:39:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:40:59 -!- calamari has joined. 05:58:51 bsmntbom1dood: that's like incredibly bad? 06:00:30 in that case it's probable that either 1. at least one of my suggested corrections would've made it better or 2. you applied some of them and that helped you reach that nice middlish number 06:00:35 oklopol: yes 06:00:52 hmm, not sure i suggested that many 06:01:09 50% is an F, the lowest grade you can get 06:01:12 i got 95 on my english essay! 06:01:33 ...i'm pretty sure we have the same level here 06:01:40 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee"). 06:08:52 bsmntbom1dood: were there any comments on it? 06:09:30 heh, my friend did a spoken presentation on brainfuck once 06:09:42 i didn't see it, sadly 06:12:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:28:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:37:34 -!- immibis has joined. 06:52:31 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:50:48 -!- immibis_ has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:12:55 -!- immibis_ has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!"). 08:13:27 ah, minuets 08:18:35 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:47:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:16:00 -!- SEO_DUDE56 has quit ("using sirc version 2.211"). 09:27:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 10:15:59 i type a lot more per minuet 10:21:19 how typical 10:22:22 ...me stealing your joke and adding some bragging? 10:24:11 well, that too. 10:24:23 what else? 10:24:34 although i was just trying to snatch it back 10:25:18 managed to add some typicality by not understanding you ;;;) 10:25:43 and making a lame-ass smiley, god i'm predictable 10:25:53 (also this metastuff is pretty typical for me) 10:26:33 just had a test, answers, stuff explaining how i got them... but completely redundant 10:26:52 i mean, just explaining why i decided not to code in java or something 10:27:10 blah blah blah like 3 pages of stuff the professors are prolly not going to read 10:27:28 (and that's my last typicality, right here, thanks for watching) 10:27:42 except that wasn't all that long a monologue, i'm a bit tired 10:28:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:28:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:30:22 why is "oil" in the most used 100 words of english 10:30:45 well i guess that may depend on where it's collected.. 10:31:59 was this that corpus that consisted partly of something from politics? 10:32:40 i don't know... realized that might be the issue here just after i'd said that 10:33:09 i actually don't remember where i got the list... so the origin could be anything really... 10:35:56 i recall someone doing something with a corpus, i may even have provided help finding it 10:36:04 adding basic vocabulary to my lang by taking the first few 2 of words from existing languages, the first 100 or so were fine, but finnish is the only language with unused prefixes left right now :\ 10:36:09 so it may well be the same 10:36:16 hmm 10:37:09 it's prolly what google gives easiest. 10:37:17 i mean, what i'm using 10:41:15 Here are the 100 most common unigrams in approximately one trillion words of Interweb pages (with numbers and other non-words removed): http://www.cis.hut.fi/~htkallas/g1.txt 10:42:11 well fuck, that's completely different from what i had 10:42:13 :< 10:42:18 Hey, it's the interweb. 10:42:27 I doubt anyone would want to use _that_. 10:42:55 (Courtesy of Web 1T 5-gram Version 1, Linguistic Data Consortium (LDC) catalog number LDC2006T13 and ISBN 1-58563-397-6; given the size of the thing, I think 100 words counts as an unsignificant sample and I won't get into trubble by "publishing" it.) 10:43:32 * oklopol won't tell anyone 10:47:59 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 11:13:44 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p431131523.txt two hundred first ones should be integrated now 11:14:14 if someone wants to make a better one, i can make that the stdlib 11:14:26 you'll get your nick on the credits of my language 11:15:14 i was first thinking i'd just automatically generate that from wiktionary + most used words 11:15:26 but that was just too complicated.. 11:47:27 -!- ihope has joined. 11:58:40 -!- zepolen has joined. 11:59:32 -!- zepolen has left (?). 12:13:28 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:22:22 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 12:34:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 12:34:30 hi guys 12:51:32 Hi RodgerTheGreat 12:51:36 * Sgeo is delayed 12:52:47 hey, Sgeo 12:55:28 -!- drop_some_jewels has joined. 12:58:33 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:02:52 -!- oklopl has joined. 13:11:49 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:13:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:45:08 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:53:04 -!- lithpbot has joined. 13:53:12 > set! 13:53:12 13:53:17 > (set! a 2) 13:53:47 * Sgeo wonders if he puts PSOX stuff into SVN, would anyone be willing to work on it? 13:53:58 Sgeo: you like psox so much, why should we work on it :P 13:54:00 > (set! a 2) 13:54:01 (error) Can't set undefined variable a 13:54:06 > (define a 2) 13:54:07 2 13:54:08 > a 13:54:08 (error) Unbound variable a 13:54:33 oh 13:54:34 duh 14:03:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:31:22 ehird`: still under construction? 14:31:43 oklopol: yeah i'm improving the bot 14:46:05 -!- jix has joined. 14:48:49 Nojix 14:48:54 (no=hi) 14:51:38 heh 15:11:16 oklopol: almost done 15:11:19 oklopol: i've rewrote the bot 15:11:23 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:11:26 > 2 15:11:26 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:11:28 hum 15:11:46 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:11:46 > 2 15:11:47 2 15:11:57 > (set! a 2) 15:11:57 (error) Can't set undefined variable a 15:12:03 > (define a 2) 15:12:03 2 15:12:04 > a 15:12:04 2 15:12:07 > (set! a 3) 15:12:08 3 15:12:12 > a 15:12:12 3 15:12:15 > (define test () 2) 15:12:15 15:12:17 > (test) 15:12:17 2 15:12:26 > (define test () 3) 15:12:27 15:12:28 > (test) 15:12:28 3 15:12:38 oklopol: btw, you can't set! a non-defined variable 15:12:39 oklopol: more hygenic 15:12:47 > a 15:12:47 3 15:12:51 > (define f () a) 15:12:51 15:12:56 > (define g () (set! a 7) (f)) 15:12:57 15:12:58 > (g) 15:12:58 7 15:13:01 What 15:13:03 ???? 15:13:16 Oh i see. 15:13:32 -!- drop_some_jewels has quit ("Leaving"). 15:14:09 that's correct 15:14:23 oklopol: that is correct, right? set! is meant to go down the tree 15:14:35 > a 15:14:36 7 15:14:37 yeah 15:14:39 > (set! a 2) 15:14:40 2 15:14:42 > (define f () a) 15:14:43 15:14:50 > (define g () (define a 7) (f)) 15:14:50 15:14:51 > (g) 15:14:51 7 15:14:56 Ok. that is broken. 15:14:57 > a 15:14:57 7 15:16:08 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:16:16 Fixed 15:16:16 :) 15:16:18 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:16:22 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:16:26 hmm 15:16:29 going to add another feature 15:18:06 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:18:08 > 2 3 15:18:09 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:18:12 XD 15:18:33 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:18:36 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:18:47 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:18:49 > 2 3 15:18:50 TypeError: peek() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) 15:19:13 oh 15:19:13 duh 15:20:03 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:20:13 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:20:13 > 2 3 15:20:14 2 15:20:14 3 15:20:17 woot 15:20:30 > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) 15:20:30 2 15:20:30 15:20:30 15:20:35 > (g) 15:20:35 UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bindings' referenced before assignment 15:21:31 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:21:42 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:21:43 > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g) 15:21:43 2 15:21:43 15:21:45 15:21:47 UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bindings' referenced before assignment 15:22:18 > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g) 15:22:18 2 15:22:18 15:22:18 15:22:18 LispError: 15:22:40 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:22:51 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:22:53 > (define a 2) (define f () a) (define g () (define a 7) (f)) (g) 15:22:53 2 15:22:53 15:22:54 15:22:56 (error) Unbound variable define 15:23:06 what 15:23:56 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:59 * Sgeo installs Windows 98, being sure to have sound enabled 15:24:02 Erm, wrong channel 15:24:06 windows 98? 15:24:12 from psox writer? 15:24:23 * Sgeo is playing with VirtualBox 15:24:36 And there's a Win98 game I want to play 15:34:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:34:30 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:34:47 re puzzlet 15:42:20 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:42:37 hmm. this works from manual nc but not using nc -e 15:42:43 curious. 15:43:55 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined. 15:43:55 Hello Sgeo[Circe], and welcome to #esoteric 15:44:04 =P 15:44:39 what is that 15:44:40 xD 15:44:55 Sgeo[Circe]: ARE YOU A HUMAN OR A BOT. ok 15:45:08 Sgeo[Circe]: ; cat /etc/passwd # 15:45:11 Human, with a script 15:45:20 what script 15:45:21 :P 15:45:32 -!- lithpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:45:34 An autogreeter script 15:45:39 lmao 15:45:56 nc -e ./run-bot irc.freenode.net 6667 # not wurkeratoring 15:46:02 This is actually an older version of the client.. 15:46:13 The newest one broke scripting GRR 15:46:32 And of course, no one develops or really even uses the client anymore.. 15:46:42 It's a dead client.. 15:46:47 That I helped work on. 15:46:50 which client? 15:46:50 I added scripting. 15:46:50 hmm 15:46:53 is it called circe 15:46:54 ?:p 15:46:56 Circe 15:47:03 oh god 15:47:04 for emacs 15:47:06 you use emacs 15:47:08 burn 15:47:11 Different client 15:47:17 oh 15:47:20 does it have a website 15:47:20 :P 15:47:42 Suprisingly, anon SVN is up.. 15:48:06 There's http://circe.xbmodder.us/ 15:48:10 Which is out of date 15:48:16 written in python 15:48:17 interesteing 15:48:21 hm 15:48:23 its graphical 15:48:23 :P 15:48:46 And the website is old.. Latest revision is 706 15:49:16 Circe uses python-irclib for IRC connections. 15:49:18 that is a huge copout 15:49:19 ;) 15:49:26 Or maybe there's a repo elsewhere.. maintainer illegally Public Domain'd it and upgraded version to 0.1.0 15:49:37 why did they illegally pubdom it :| 15:49:44 It was basically dead.. 15:49:45 that's very assholish 15:50:29 -!- lithpbot has joined. 15:50:29 Hello lithpbot, and welcome to #esoteric 15:50:40 Public repo: svn://xbmodder.us/repos/circe 15:51:03 whoa 15:51:07 lithpbot just started working 15:51:08 like that 15:51:10 *snap/ 15:51:29 * Sgeo[Circe] is running r681 with a patch to prevent checking the version.. 15:52:12 process russian roulette 15:52:16 i have to pick a random process 15:52:20 it might be nc 15:52:23 it might be a shell 15:52:25 hm? 15:52:28 then kill -9 in 15:52:29 it 15:52:29 :D 15:52:34 nc? 15:52:39 netcat 15:52:52 Kill init! lol 15:52:58 im stuck on cygwin 15:52:58 :| 15:53:00 atm 15:54:01 Are you going to try Circe? 15:54:05 nah :P 15:54:06 maybe later 15:54:13 (later = soon) 15:54:40 * Sgeo[Circe] should work out what broke scripting between r681 and r706 15:54:51 * Sgeo[Circe] still has dev access, in fact 15:55:02 personally 15:55:09 i wouldn't want to maintain a thing like that :| 15:55:16 if it really is illegally pubdoms 15:55:25 It used to be GPL 15:55:32 ok 15:55:33 that's worse 15:55:33 :| 15:55:36 hm? 15:55:37 MIT license ftw 15:55:51 when faced with GPL, apply illegal license changing to your liking 15:55:51 :P 15:56:05 That's what the maintainer did >.> 15:56:13 Yeah well 15:56:14 it was GPL 15:56:24 good for him for ridding the world of another GPL package 15:57:00 What's wrong with GPL? 15:57:05 it's horrid :< 15:57:11 and draconian 15:57:29 it may be to the /letter/ of open software, but it's against the spirit 16:01:06 * Sgeo is going to mess with different revisions until he finds the one that broke scripting 16:01:15 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit ("Circe: http://circe.berlios.de/"). 16:02:08 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined. 16:02:16 -!- Sgeo has left (?). 16:02:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:02:26 -!- Sgeo has left (?). 16:02:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:04:58 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit (Client Quit). 16:05:35 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has joined. 16:05:53 -!- Sgeo has left (?). 16:05:54 I'm going to write a tiny irc client 16:05:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:06:11 Well, that line isn't going to be in my XChat log now 16:06:11 I'm going to write a tiny irc client :D 16:06:15 ah 16:06:15 huh 16:06:16 what line 16:06:19 oh that 16:06:19 yes 16:06:20 i noticed 16:06:23 then said it for your logs :P 16:06:35 Ah 16:06:39 I should write this client in sh! 16:06:39 XD 16:06:45 Well, scripting fails in r690 16:07:12 I actually like circe's interface 16:07:24 I'll mimic it in my ui.gfx module 16:07:25 :D 16:09:53 -!- lithpbot has quit (Connection timed out). 16:11:23 * Sgeo fully FAILS to see how r690 broke scripting 16:14:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:15:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:19:08 re puzzlet 16:19:16 ehird`, puzzlet, want to see real insanity? 16:19:30 http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/99550.aspx 16:23:44 Aug 27 19:26:55 its not "needed" but it would probably be easiest 16:23:44 Aug 27 19:27:06 I'm not sure how else to go about reading commands in the order they appear 16:31:28 Any thoughts? 16:31:35 puzzlet, ehird` ? 16:34:10 back 16:34:14 Sgeo: wait 16:34:47 Sgeo: projecthead=circe guy right 16:34:53 No 16:35:07 ok 16:35:08 Although I got to the project because the Circe guy joined t 16:35:08 well 16:35:09 it 16:35:13 from the start 16:35:14 i hate projecthead 16:35:20 xml misuse hooray 16:35:21 :| 16:35:31 Aug 27 19:27:06 I'm not sure how else to go about reading commands in the order they appear 16:35:31 Aug 27 19:28:53 How about having the commands be in just a text file? 16:35:31 Aug 27 19:29:35 well how do I get it to parse it in order? 16:35:33 jesus 16:35:35 christ 16:36:49 "Why would anybody choose to donate their time to a project headed by such a retard? I would never have the desire to contribute under such circumstances." truth 16:37:29 * Sgeo still autojoins the channel 16:37:31 :/ 16:37:39 The project is dead btw 16:37:52 http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/permalink/99550/99561/ShowThread.aspx#99561 rms being batshit insane like usual 16:38:00 What was the project? 16:38:06 Asylum 16:38:06 Was it called planeshift? :P 16:38:09 /whois lawl 16:38:11 alright 16:38:39 Sgeo: what was asylum? 16:38:57 It was a project to build stuff from SVN 16:39:06 looooooooooool 16:39:07 The initial target was songbird 16:39:10 lawl 16:39:11 useless 16:39:19 people should figure out how to use make and how to create proper makefiles 16:39:57 * Sgeo fixed a display problem.. 16:40:01 in Asylum.. 16:40:28 * Sgeo rereads the asylum.py code 16:40:42 It seems to act as a shellscript that prints progress reports 16:41:11 "Purpose: Make svn builds of software on linux easier" 16:41:55 set the topic in #asylum to "asylum is no more... THANK GOD" :D 16:41:56 Welcome back to the project that's now deader than Circe 16:42:07 hehe 16:43:03 so, Sgeo, fancy helping out with an irc client in python? really minimal? 16:43:13 with a gui hopefully as minimal as circe? [and pluggable interfaces]? 16:43:13 Another one? lol 16:43:17 haha 16:43:18 yeah :P 16:43:21 i feel like making an irc client 16:43:22 so. 16:43:36 * Sgeo shrugs. "Why not?" 16:43:39 :P 16:43:46 How far along is it 16:43:47 ? 16:43:53 just started now! :p 16:44:20 * Sgeo got into Circe when it had an interface, and could connect and stuff 16:44:27 connecting is easy :P 16:44:28 I added some CTCP stuff, actually.. 16:44:41 the interface to start with will be text-based, methinks... ui.text or whatever 16:44:49 then, ui.wx or ui.gtk or whatever can be added 16:44:54 reason: simplest to start with 16:44:56 Make an abstraction for interfaces.. 16:45:00 of course 16:45:29 * Sgeo wonders if abstractions like that are reusable and if we can use one of those? 16:45:44 Maybe, but I'll probably just use a python plugin system/write my own 16:45:51 http://termie.pbwiki.com/SprinklesPy looks interesting 16:46:48 Maybe I should start without a plugin system, then put one in once it's semi-functional 16:46:51 Sgeo: sound good? 16:47:08 I guess.. 16:47:11 * Sgeo doesn't know 16:47:24 :P 16:47:33 Unless you make it so there's a very basic basic core and most stuff is just plugins.. 16:47:41 hm 16:47:44 what does circe do 16:47:44 core == plugin stuff 16:47:44 :P 16:47:53 Erm, you mean with scripting? 16:47:56 well the core would also include irc stuff too 16:48:00 and i mean, just period 16:48:02 does it have plugins? 16:48:34 Circe has scripting. I just added hooks in from commands and irc events, and import a module that has functions with names in a certain format 16:48:46 alright 16:48:53 i'll start without plugins then 16:49:11 ok, name time. dirce to continue the greek+irc-in-name theme? dunno, doesn't sound very good :P 16:49:37 Dirce, spiritual successor to Circe? 16:49:54 hehe 16:50:17 :P 16:50:29 If the client does version checks, PLEASE make sure that it won't die if it can't contact the version server 16:50:45 * Sgeo needed to patch a file to get Circe to work because of that.. 16:51:00 of course 16:51:10 version checks are probably a bad idea anyway :) 16:51:13 centralization etc 16:51:19 Maybe an option 16:51:20 Like 16:51:25 "Version check: [ server url ]" 16:51:34 esp. if the project dies and some nutcase such as myself feels like using it.. 16:51:35 hehe 16:51:45 So if someone branched it off or made a new maintainer, people can update to the new version without uninstalling etc 16:51:58 One thing I want to avoid in this 16:52:00 is threads 16:52:06 Threads are really unpythonic and often real hacks 16:52:11 Event-based = FTW 16:52:34 Question: Do we REALLY need another IRC client floating around? 16:52:51 Yes! 16:52:52 :) 16:53:05 * Sgeo should work on PSOX 16:53:09 hehe 16:53:12 Should I put PSOX on Berlios? 16:53:16 If you want, but meh 16:53:20 have you ever used the mercurial version control system? 16:53:20 Why meh? 16:53:29 Never heard of it, what is it? 16:53:35 You know svn and cvs? 16:53:37 yes 16:53:40 They're version control systems, but they're centralized 16:53:46 there's one server that has all the revisions on 16:53:53 With distributed systems -- like mercurial, git and darcs, 16:54:02 each checkout is a full copy of the repository 16:54:14 and there doesn't NEED to be a central server - you can "pull" and "push" to any repository you want 16:54:20 It's very fast and very nice 16:54:28 http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/ 16:54:41 It's quite popular too 16:54:56 Mozilla is going to use it, for one 16:55:42 So if I make a change, how do I make sure others receive the change? 16:55:59 Well, you check in the change like normal. But there's several options for other people seeing it.. 16:56:12 1. Put it online, tell the other person, they will "hg pull" your changes 16:56:12 OR 16:56:24 2. If there's a central repository, "hg push" to it 16:56:50 If you want to put it online simply, you can use "hg serve" and it starts up an http server for others to pull from 16:57:23 Is there a free online provider for murcurial central repositories? 16:57:31 no, there's no need for a central repository 16:57:42 #1 is the best way 16:57:48 also see my message above: If you want to put it online simply, you can use "hg serve" and it starts up an http server for others to pull from 16:57:57 Also, it's very cool as far as branching goes 16:58:01 A branch is just another copy of the repository. 16:58:01 Yes, but I can't leave my computer running all the time 16:58:04 And merging is great 16:58:13 Like really, really great 16:58:19 And why not darcs? 16:58:20 It can merge most things automatically 16:58:25 And darcs is kinda slow 16:58:32 darcs also has the same issues 16:58:51 but if you really want it we can use darcs i guess :P 16:59:05 No, mercurial is ok, I just want a central repo 16:59:13 OK fine 16:59:16 i'll set one up :P 16:59:24 * Sgeo also wants something for PSOX 16:59:38 I can set up a psox mercurial repo if you want 16:59:46 Although I guess I could just set one up here, and then later put it online 16:59:50 Cool ty 16:59:55 And yeah that's probably best 17:00:03 It's trivial to do so 17:00:07 "hg init" -> new project in current dir 17:00:08 voila 17:00:16 Anyway, while I set up a repository, you should read http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Tutorial 17:00:25 it walks you through installing, using, etc mercurial 17:00:40 Sgeo: So the irc client is called Dirce, right? #dirce then 17:01:10 Can't I just use a GUI for Mercurial? 17:02:45 If you want 17:02:45 :P 17:04:46 Is `hg view` easy to use? 17:05:02 I think so? 17:05:02 :| 17:06:51 Well, I need to do an `hg init` first apparently 17:07:47 Ok, hg view is officially UGLY 17:08:00 why 17:08:06 Want a screenshot? 17:08:09 and boo hoo, most people can use vcs' from the command line :| 17:08:09 fine 17:09:53 Sgeo: i'll have a screenshot 17:09:56 Sgeo: also, #dirce :P 17:13:58 Sgeo: brb 17:15:58 http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/3198/hgkcm3.png 17:16:53 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:24:06 Sgeo: back 17:24:13 re 17:24:30 see above pic 17:24:33 ok, Sgeo, that's because it's Tk 17:24:35 Tk is like that 17:24:38 deal with it :p 17:24:48 Also doesn't look that easy to use 17:24:52 bah 17:24:55 i'm sure you can figure it out 17:24:56 :| honestly 17:24:56 Certainly not as easy as RapidSVN 17:25:00 the command-line interface is simple 17:25:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:25:33 "hg add/rm ..." to add or remove files, "hg ci" to commit (or "hg ci ..." to commit only some files) 17:25:36 Hi sebbu 17:25:48 hi Sgeo 17:25:55 also useful are "hg log" to see what's going on recently, "hg push/pull SERVER" for obvious reasons 17:26:02 and "hg mv file1 file2" to move a file 17:26:04 that's pretty much it 17:26:11 ehird`, the GUI doesn't seem useful for what I want to use it for (everything) 17:26:14 "hg ci" even opens $EDITOR 17:26:23 ok, so use the command-line version 17:26:36 * Sgeo doesn't like command-line stuff 17:26:45 then why do you use linux 17:27:05 (and why are you making PSOX, which is arguably very command-line focused) 17:27:33 seriously, it's trivial 17:28:03 it'll take 2 minutes to learn 17:28:04 :) 17:28:10 Try http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/Tutorial 17:32:38 Do I actually need to do the tutorial myself? meh 17:32:54 Well yeah if you want to learn mercurial :P 17:32:56 It's very simple 17:33:39 Can't I just read it? 17:33:45 Of course 17:35:49 When I do `hg export`, where is the base of the change? 17:36:03 Would you translate that into english 17:36:03 :) 17:37:10 When I do `hg export`, it results in a diff, right? 17:37:21 So what is it diffing? tip and what? 17:37:27 Perhaps, I have never used it. 17:37:28 Hm 17:37:32 I think tip and tip-1 17:37:33 but 17:37:36 you can specify a range 17:37:38 hg export start:end 17:41:34 -!- jix has joined. 17:44:29 Hi jix 17:44:36 hi 17:44:43 * Sgeo still wants a pretty Mercurial GUI 17:44:43 dbc: got my 104 byte hello world? 17:45:02 SgeoWrite one. :P 17:45:58 No 17:46:19 Ask in #mercurial 17:46:20 * Sgeo is going to start implementing PSOX before the specs are complete :/ 17:55:17 -!- RedDak has joined. 17:56:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:01:23 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:02:37 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:10:52 Sgeo: #dirce ping 18:12:53 Sorry 18:13:08 * Sgeo is tempted to just make an SVN repo on his comp 18:13:28 oh, i'll give you access to the repo 18:13:33 what account name do you want 18:14:26 Sgeo 18:14:35 Sgeo: in lowercase i assume for unixy :P 18:14:43 uh, i'll give you a temp password... 18:14:44 Bleh I guess 18:14:47 ssh in to change it 18:33:26 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:33:36 -!- jix has joined. 18:44:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Swindon_Magic_Roundabout_eng.png 18:44:55 can you say terrible design? 18:45:33 first thought: goatse 18:46:37 hmm not really 18:49:04 OMFG 18:49:08 I went through that roundabout! 18:49:16 TERR-I-FY-ING 18:50:25 Of course, figuring out roundabouts AT ALL was still pretty tough :P 18:50:47 roundabouts are stupid in general 19:01:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:01:03 -!- Sgeo[Circe] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:03:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:04:07 Grr crashed 19:08:27 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:09:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:28:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:34:15 ROUNDABOUTS REDUCE RISK OF COLLISION 19:34:31 just wanted you to know 19:34:58 Reduce compared to what? 19:35:08 normal crossings 19:35:09 Uncontrolled x-way intersections? 19:35:20 I'm gonna go with "duh" 19:35:32 there was a reason for my caps 19:35:48 :P 19:56:57 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:58:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:14:23 yay, dirce development will begin soon! 20:14:24 (#dirce) 20:38:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 20:48:41 Hi SEO_DUDE 21:02:49 D IRC Encrypt-er? 21:12:10 jix: Yeah, I saw that 104-byte Hello World. Excellent. I assume that's a result of search, so no better can be done with that basic approach? 21:18:11 not exhaustive search 21:18:17 so there might be a better version 21:18:42 GregorR: nope 21:19:08 GregorR: an IRC client, written in python, with accompanying irc lib lycus 21:19:21 GregorR: "spiritual successor" to circe, another python irc client 21:20:13 dirce will be ui-neutral, with main development going on a wxPython module, and lycus will also eventually be abstracted out to be protocol neutral - so e.g. irc bots written with it can work on jabber, aim, ... 21:20:43 , DirectNet 21:20:57 * ehird` googles 21:21:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectNet? 21:21:03 ah, it's yours :P 21:21:11 your login screen is fugly fyi 21:21:23 <-- not a UI designer 21:21:34 hint - don't make it black 21:22:15 GregorR: dirce is going to be really good, probably :P 21:22:23 minimal, extensible, fast, etc., buzzwords 21:22:54 (#dirce) 21:23:32 Will it revolutionize outside-the-box thought pattern dynamics while diversifying synergy potential? 21:23:47 i still want an irc client which runs on my server but with the gui locally 21:23:57 jix: Wow, I had that idea too o.O 21:24:04 jix: I think that could be done in dirce, actually 21:24:08 So, irssi BNC mode + xchat? :P 21:24:13 but i hate wx* 21:24:20 jix: gui modules are pluggable 21:24:20 GregorR: nope 21:24:22 I don't see anything wrong with that roundabout! 21:24:24 jix: you could use ncurses if you wanted 21:24:28 uargh 21:24:39 i want a GUI 21:24:41 jix: ok, what would you like 21:24:47 cocoa 21:24:54 jix: i use os x too! :P 21:25:00 jix: [not now though, stuck on windows atm] 21:25:06 jix: anyway that would be possible 21:25:06 oh and it should be scriptable using ruby 21:25:13 jix: bah, sorry, it's python 21:25:17 ;) 21:25:27 there is a python ruby bridge i think ^^ 21:25:28 It should be scriptable in Rupy 21:25:42 you could write a script that just calls out to ruby and calls back for a Dirce module or whatever, though 21:25:44 Is that some Ruby-Python hybrid? 21:25:56 GregorR: with x-chat + irssi i don't have a backlog that just works 21:25:56 also, a cocoa gui module will probably exist sometime - even more so if you write it ;) 21:26:00 And the client-server thing, 21:26:04 jix: True. 21:26:09 I had that idea a while back too and it could be probably implemented easily 21:26:26 but it will be tricky to get a good scrollbar for the backlog 21:26:26 you'd just have to subclass lots of lycus stuff in a script and tell dirce to use it 21:26:45 jix: i think for it i will copout: just get a batch of all messages past $DISCONNECT_TIME 21:26:58 it's not like it'll be megabytes or whatever 21:27:13 no i want all my logs from wherever i'm connecting 21:27:22 the whole client including all scripts running on the server 21:27:28 hm 21:27:31 well you could do that 21:27:39 and when i scroll up locally to some stuff that isn't loaded locally it will request it on the fly 21:27:41 write a gui for dirce that actually runs a server 21:27:48 but as for the client 21:27:51 if you wanted all that fancy stuff 21:27:53 far too hard :| 21:28:16 but i think i'll just continue to use x-chat aqua ^^ 21:28:36 hehe 21:28:37 even tho the missing tab reorder feature is a pain in the ass.... you get used to such stuff 21:28:53 gaim is getting irc support in 1.2 21:29:38 i don't like the way most IMs handle irc 21:29:46 yeah me too 21:29:46 i even use bitlbee for jabber MUCs 21:29:48 oh well 21:29:59 you should try dirce some time at least ;) 21:30:12 i use Adium for the other IM stuff because i like it for that 21:30:33 but when it comes to handling chats with multiple users where you are idling most of the time IMs just suck 21:30:33 ehird`, Dirce doesn't exist in usable form yet.. or anywhere but our imaginations even 21:30:45 Sgeo: of course, but it will soon 21:31:07 In the meantime, Circe exists >.> 21:31:15 i might write my own irc client some day... 21:31:18 circe is uh, kind of minimal :P 21:31:22 jix: diiiiiirce! haha 21:31:24 Yeah, normal IM client + IRC channels = blech 21:31:33 ehird`: i don't write python code 21:31:40 I see people with Gaim in their quit message and think "...really?" 21:31:52 i'd use c++ or ruby 21:32:08 I'd use PL/1 or BASIC. 21:32:12 * Sgeo <3 Python 21:32:17 but i don't like any of rubys gui bindings 21:32:29 and the only gui toolkit i like is GPL/Comercial which sucks 21:32:43 GregorR: i use pidgin atm because im stuck on windows =( 21:32:46 jix: qt? :P 21:32:52 ehird`: yeah 21:32:57 jix: maybe you should try out Shoes :P 21:33:00 Shoes? 21:33:08 Sgeo: _why's gui toolkit-thing 21:33:23 ehird`: sorry but that's not a usable gui toolkit 21:33:28 (at least the last time i looked at it) 21:33:29 jix: i was kidding 21:33:33 Dirce will support it? 21:33:40 Sgeo: no, it's for ruby 21:33:43 ah 21:33:50 * jix wants a qt license 21:33:52 for free 21:33:58 jix: here you go! 21:33:59 :P 21:34:03 also, dirce will be MIT licensed 21:34:04 jix, you can use it in GPL projects.. 21:34:04 \o/ 21:34:12 MIT licensed? 21:34:15 Sgeo: obviously jix is sane and dislikes GPL 21:34:16 Sgeo: i'm not going to release a single line of code under GPL 21:34:24 and MIT is "teh best licens evUr!111" 21:34:37 Sgeo: it's three paragraphs, go read it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License 21:34:52 Can we use Circe code, or will we refuse to recognize the bad PD? 21:35:04 probably refuse, plus there's not that much to circe anyway 21:35:25 The scripting? 21:35:33 well, true 21:35:35 * GregorR <3 GPL 21:35:40 we'll think about it when we come to it 21:35:45 Well, the scripting framework would need to be implemented differently though.. 21:35:51 doing an own strange license with stupid stuff in it is fun too 21:36:12 Adapt the MS EULA :P 21:36:19 ehird`, did you look at the Scripting API of Circe? 21:36:25 Sgeo: kind of 21:36:26 :P 21:36:35 You know, it used to require knowledge of Circe internals.. 21:36:35 but anyway, @#dirce about the root class 21:36:41 Then I came up with Sapi 21:36:42 http://dumb.sourceforge.net/index.php?page=licences is great 21:37:23 4. If you are using the Program in someone else's bedroom on any Monday at 3:05 pm, you are not allowed to modify the Program for ten minutes. [This clause provided by Inphernic; every licence should contain at least one clause, the reasoning behind which is far from obvious.] 21:37:25 damn 21:37:25 ;) 21:37:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:37:52 i thought about releasing two libs... one only allows usage at monday the other one only at thuesday 21:37:55 but they depend on each other 21:38:08 and i got that dayname worng i guess 21:41:19 well i'm going to bed now 21:41:20 gn8 21:41:30 jix: bye 21:41:34 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:47:48 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:03:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:14:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:33:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:36:29 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebub. 22:55:04 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:18:56 :-) 23:22:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 23:33:36 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:40:46 -!- sebub has quit ("@+"). 23:46:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 2007-11-06: 00:10:54 -!- ihope has joined. 00:30:59 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:35:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:39:24 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:40:18 -!- tokigun has joined. 00:42:52 -!- Guilt has joined. 00:43:07 hi. i uploaded a newer compiler here: http://guilt.bafsoft.net/downloads/wip/Brainfuck/ 00:43:39 it converts to x86 asm. right now does jump optimizations.. will eventually work out balanced loop optimization once i have an intermediete representation 00:44:01 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:44:10 i would like feedback and bug reports, if any. 00:46:22 'Lo. 00:46:45 sweet-n-lo 00:47:53 lo! :) 00:49:13 Ello. 00:50:06 "Hello" 00:50:12 "'ello" 00:50:14 "'lo" 00:50:23 "'o" (OK, maybe not) 00:50:37 hehe :) 00:51:48 "'" 00:52:34 * GregorR uses "'" as a greeting from now on. 00:53:19 O'bsmntbombdood -> Oh, hello bsmntbombdood! 00:53:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 00:53:40 didn't know he was irish... 00:54:59 Just like John Van Von O'McFitzsonovichstein 00:58:27 Is there a first name that means "my son"? :P 00:58:57 yeah 00:58:58 mison 00:59:09 * GregorR stabs bsmntbombdood in the facehole. 00:59:23 don't make fun of my facial deformity :( 01:01:37 you're pretty good at photoshopping it away, then 01:01:38 I'm not making fun of it ... just stabbing it. 01:02:05 are there any easy to understand books on automata? 01:02:06 :) 01:02:17 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 01:02:29 without too much math in it? like a quintuplet of sorts? :) 01:02:58 i know it's like asking for food without calories.. but a low-cal diet would be great! :) 01:03:09 GregorR: stabbing exacerbates my azerbaijan 01:04:29 "Mijo" means "my son"! It's just not a name. 01:04:35 As far as I know, at least. 01:04:40 it could be a name 01:04:44 Indeed. 01:05:04 Guilt: automata, you say? Like cellular automata and Turing machines and Minsky machines and Langton's ant? 01:05:16 yeah. that stuff. 01:05:41 But math IS that stuff! :-) 01:06:08 ooh :| is there a good math tutorial at least? :) 01:06:22 i lost interest in math after 1st year of univ. 01:06:23 "is there a good math tutorial" :P 01:06:27 and it's been years since 01:06:37 well. i fear math now. totally. 01:06:40 Eh, there are lots of things that can follow "math is". 01:07:00 Well, what are you after? A list of automata? 01:07:02 * oerjan wonders if MCC over at GoodMath did automata 01:07:36 understanding that stuff. 01:07:56 oerjan: I suspect he has. 01:07:59 Is there any certain automaton you don't understand? 01:08:38 Guilt: What a shame. 01:08:43 ihope: turing machines, for starters. 01:08:54 * pikhq is in high school, and loves math. 01:08:55 and yes, a shame :( 01:08:57 Mmm, calculus. 01:09:01 i am _sure_ MCC did turing machines 01:09:07 pikhq, i loved calculus in school 01:09:34 then they taught something on differential equations and those generating long polynomials 01:09:47 Guilt: maybe an animation of a Turing machine would help? 01:09:48 and holes and stuff in complex numbers, and all that high school math went deep into the drain 01:09:53 ihope: sure. 01:10:30 Now I just have to find one, I guess. 01:10:35 eventually, i hope to learn enough math to follow TAOCP. a lifetime goal. lol 01:10:37 i haven't been there in a while, but there were always people saying things like "i tried to learn this before, but i never understood it before you explained it" 01:10:51 ... 01:10:54 yeah. understanding is the key to these things. 01:11:09 Holes in functions & complex numbers are difficult? 01:11:28 It's so much easier just to be a genius, eh pikhq? 01:11:32 there's a whole lot of things behind that now which i don't remember. 01:11:47 GregorR: Of course it is. 01:11:48 Yeah, being a genius is nice. You should try it sometime. :-P 01:11:58 yeah. and if you're a genius, that's great. i admit i'm not one. but i intend to eventually become not so dumb. 01:11:59 :) 01:12:05 (as a genius, I'm well aware of that. :p) 01:12:11 Now, to go kill myself over my upcoming crypto assignment argh Gregor hate argh argh 01:12:19 s/assignment/midterm/ 01:12:34 i think of crypto as a blackbox. something goes in and something else comes out. :) that has it's advantages 01:12:45 i could figure out the math somewhat in RSA and DH though. 01:12:47 Yes. Yes it does. I used to live in that happy universe *sobs* 01:12:53 hehe :) 01:13:04 should this channel be #math? :) 01:13:12 No, #math should. 01:13:23 #math has people like TRWBW. Not that that's a bad thing? 01:13:35 who's trwbw? 01:13:49 uman: you asked a question, i gave you valid information, either thank me or just shut up. anyways, go with god 01:14:39 Perhaps I should make a Turing machine animation. 01:14:48 TRWBW is my new hero :P 01:14:49 It's not hard to make a bad one! :-P 01:15:02 graphviz is your friend! 01:15:19 * GregorR <3 graphviz 01:15:27 One of those programs that is way more helpful than it ought to be :P 01:15:30 http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/02/basics_the_turing_machine_with_1.php#more 01:15:42 Oh, that looks useful. 01:19:14 (note in my browser at least that has a formatting error so the actual article is below all the menus) 01:20:55 one more question: why haskell? :) 01:21:04 It's oerjan. 01:21:11 is learning it fundamental to researching stuff like this? 01:21:11 It wouldn't *be* Oerjan without Haskell. :p 01:21:18 uhh. 01:21:30 Oh. MCC did some Haskell there? 01:21:47 yep 01:22:25 I suspect Haskell is for the more mathematically inclined. :p 01:22:37 he also started a haskell tutorial 01:22:38 :P 01:23:23 the fact that MCC used haskell is probably not my fault though 01:23:40 we discovered it independently, afaik 01:23:43 I still blame you. 01:23:51 Wait. . . Do you *know* MCC? 01:24:03 no, but i followed the blog for a while 01:24:06 Ah. 01:24:37 O_O wierd. 01:24:38 the probably was an understatement 01:24:51 i realize what a mathematical world this is. 01:25:17 also, i started reading it because of his weekly esolang, not is haskell 01:25:27 *his 01:25:47 in fact someone here pointed me to it 01:25:57 is haskell an esolang? 01:26:05 looks decent to me. like lisp or somethin 01:26:11 usually not considered as such :) 01:26:32 but it is quite different from most programming languages 01:27:10 hmm 01:27:48 ooh you know what would be awesome 01:28:02 a forum like slashdot, except all posting done by mail 01:28:13 *cough* 01:28:15 Usenet. 01:28:40 er, postal mail 01:28:58 Ah. 01:29:09 Usenet over post. 01:29:37 either no one would participate, or only people who really had something decent to say would participate 01:30:02 -!- ihope_ has joined. 01:31:37 ooh. zip in python looks like borrowed from haskell 01:31:38 :) 01:31:49 stupid languages.. all similiar looking 01:31:54 comprehensions too 01:32:07 hmm O_O 01:32:18 i'm going to get mad one day.. looking at x numbers of languages 01:32:19 :) 01:32:47 although both zip and comprehensions are probably older than both 01:32:56 hmm 01:33:03 well, comprehensions really come from math 01:33:11 omg. haskell has a posix api with networking? 01:33:17 As do functions. Your point? 01:33:20 i hope nobody's doing SOA with it. 01:33:36 sure. the number of libraries have really started to take off lately 01:34:20 thank god brainfuck doesn't say something about tcp or file streams 01:34:30 :) although it could act as a http client with nc. heh 01:34:35 It would if we worked on PSOX. 01:34:44 -!- k1w2u3 has joined. 01:34:47 what's a PSOX? 01:35:06 there's happs, for building web services with haskell 01:35:21 PSOX is a suggested API via I/O to allow esoteric languages access to things like files, TCP streams, etc. 01:36:06 O_O 01:36:13 lool 01:36:14 :) 01:36:51 (yes, we are insane; thank you for noticing) 01:38:05 * oerjan goes to find that quote again 01:38:12 can PSOX work with a normal brainfuck interp? 01:38:20 as of now, any existing implementations? 01:38:59 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox-new-cat.b ? 01:39:09 That would be an *example* of PSOX. 01:39:18 Sgeo has no implementation finished. 01:39:21 "We're all mad here. I am mad. You're mad." "How do you know that I am mad?" asked Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 01:39:23 Or, indeed, a finished spec. 01:39:37 heh. through the looking glass? 01:39:40 or the first one? 01:40:22 i think alice in wonderland, but not sure 01:43:03 -!- Guilt has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:48:52 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 01:54:03 http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/11/musical_goofiness_with_a_mathy.php 02:15:42 -!- k1w2u3 has left (?). 02:26:15 Wow. 02:26:17 That - is - AWESOME 02:33:41 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 02:48:59 sooo who wants to start a mail-in internet forum? 02:54:40 like slashdot, with news articles to start discussion (less time-sensitive and longer lived than slashdot's though), with a postal adress to send comments to, where someone does very light moderation (removing spam and the "AI()(#J KDKSD"s), scans, threadifies, and posts the mail 02:55:58 this reminds me of a very old-fangled concept which i'm sure you young whipper-snappers haven't heard about, called a magazine. 02:56:26 02:56:34 magazines don't post enough mails for decent discussion, and monthly is waaay too long 02:56:55 and expensive to actually print a magazine 02:58:06 you might be interested in another ancient concept called a newspaper, then 02:58:31 the same space and expense considerations 02:58:34 but touche :P 04:10:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:16:06 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:17:11 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:21:49 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:31:36 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:37:39 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:39:12 -!- Slereah- has joined. 04:40:22 -!- zuzu has joined. 04:41:47 -!- zuzu has quit (Success). 04:51:39 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:54:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:54:30 -!- zuzu has joined. 04:55:42 -!- sekhmet has joined. 04:55:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)). 04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:55:46 -!- sekhmet has joined. 05:11:43 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:18:37 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:24:52 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:31:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:31:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 05:33:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:05:46 -!- immibis has joined. 06:07:10 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:01:48 http://www.rinkworks.com/stupid/ 07:42:13 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:42:50 cool 07:42:54 my mouse is broken. 07:43:08 last night... was playing with my magnets as usual... dropped one on the computer, perhaps a sensitive area or something, screen went black 07:43:22 tried plugging it in 07:43:37 the weird thing is, i could just recover that from a button on my comp that switches screen on/off 07:43:49 but the mouse ain't working 07:43:52 hmm 07:44:06 is it plugged in 07:44:17 i *could* try taking the battery off and letting it be fully dead for a while 07:44:31 good idea if that's what you meant 07:44:54 is that a laptop? 07:44:58 yeah 07:45:18 is there a button above the touchpad 07:45:19 and it's the touchpad that's not working 07:45:26 with a light near it? 07:45:26 maybe i should've cleared that up 07:45:28 and is the light on? 07:45:29 haha no 07:45:33 i mean 07:45:34 then push the button 07:45:39 no, there isn't one 07:45:45 oh 07:45:54 this is a 2.5-year-old laptop, even i'm not that stupid ;) 07:46:18 yeah 07:46:33 yeah, NoNameScript 07:46:42 * immibis notices that oklopol replied to a /notice by writing in a channel 07:47:03 yes, conclusion: i see notices on the channel i'm currently in 07:47:06 Ooh; the RFC frowns on that! 07:47:14 it does? 07:47:16 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:47:31 "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies must never be sent in response to a NOTICE message." 07:47:49 http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/chapter4.html#c4_4_2 and so on. 07:47:50 fizzie: i think automatic is an important word there 07:48:00 Well, that looked pretty automatic to me! 07:48:44 ban!!! 07:48:44 [20:46] --> oklopol - NoNameScript? 07:48:49 that was the NOTICE 07:48:57 after i version'ed him 07:49:07 Yes, and he automatically replied to it without thinking about it (much). 07:49:20 heh 07:49:31 omg lecture in 12 minutes 6 km away -> 07:49:34 You might get stuck into a loop that way! You'd write replies and replies until your fingers fell off! 07:51:56 /notice immibis Oh Hi 07:54:17 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:54:33 /notice immibis Oh Hi 07:57:07 immibis said Oh Hi. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:57:39 someone notice me (:P) with the word Hi somewhere in the text 07:57:44 immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:57:48 needs to be a capital H 07:59:09 lament said Thou Art Hideous, Wretch!. Take that, RFC 1459! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:36 lol 08:04:10 Actually RFC 2812 makes the statement even stronger, with ALL CAPS: "The difference between NOTICE and PRIVMSG is that automatic replies MUST NEVER be sent in response to a NOTICE message." 08:04:43 ok fixed 08:04:47 immibis said Hi. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812! 08:05:25 Very good. 08:07:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:09:15 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Life without danger is a waste of o). 08:14:58 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:37:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:38:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 08:54:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:08:20 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:42:05 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:02:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:51:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:56:02 * Sgeo pokes people to #psox 11:56:09 SVN repository! 12:02:45 hm 12:22:17 -!- ehird` has joined. 12:25:45 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 12:43:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:52:00 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 13:04:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:20:39 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/ex/example_domain.py 13:31:06 -!- ehird` has left (?). 13:31:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:32:42 -!- jix has joined. 13:32:55 i think i actually managed to design a whole new esoteric language concept today! 13:33:24 well, like 1% change of that happening 13:33:24 cool oklopol 13:33:31 but you can always hope. 13:33:52 it's based on constantly improving guesses 13:34:03 cool 13:34:06 functions always return instantly, but keep on trying to produce a better output 13:34:12 that's like a neural net 13:34:13 neat 13:34:21 i'll implement it show me a spec :P 13:34:36 i'll try myself first :D 13:34:42 butbubutbubtubutbut 13:34:44 I want to do it :( 13:34:47 hehe 13:34:53 i'll do it in python! :9 13:35:12 with the semantics i have now, it's unbelievable complicated; and it's not unambiguous yet. 13:35:28 for some reason i have to do everything in an original way when designing a language 13:36:06 i don't wanna do it in python... too easy :< 13:36:15 i'll write an interp in C 13:36:20 is that hardcore enough for you? 13:36:27 yes 13:36:30 it will be all in main(), be uncommented, and use at least one hex digit 13:36:42 like most C esolang interpreters 13:36:46 will that satisfy you? 13:36:59 but as i said, i'll first finish the language, then try making it myself, then you can do it. :D 13:37:28 that sounds nice, but also remember to avoid recursion 13:37:38 ...and do some inline asm 13:37:40 can't I recurse into main? 13:37:44 that's non-standard and kooky! :D 13:38:00 well, yes, but you shouldn't be dependent on that, just do it for the heck of it 13:38:08 aww 13:38:17 can i do it for my parsing 13:38:23 recurse a few times, then while-loop everything 13:38:48 heh, i'm really not gonna make you a spec, half the fun in designing languages is implementing them :D 13:39:09 you can implement it but give me a spec so i can too 13:39:09 :P 13:39:13 also, implement yours in oklotalk! 13:41:02 heh, i would need to make oklotalk first ;) 13:41:36 actually, one of my greatest problems is i want to use a non garbage collected language, but i don't feel like making good containers in C 13:41:49 D and disable gc? 13:41:51 and i don't know many other non gc languages 13:41:58 D is pretty easy to learn 13:41:58 well, that has actually crossed my mind 13:42:00 alternatively 13:42:05 disable python's gc like so: 13:42:08 but i haven't installed D yet, soooo much work xD 13:42:14 whenever you create an object, push it to a global list 13:42:18 that's "malloc" 13:42:22 when you want to free something 13:42:26 delete it from the list 13:42:33 manual gc :D 13:43:10 if i'd just put ints in the list, it'd be a quite accurate translation 14:03:08 -!- AnMaster has joined. 14:03:44 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 14:04:16 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:21:41 -!- ehird` has quit ("Leaving."). 14:22:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:22:32 -!- ehird` has left (?). 14:28:50 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:30:40 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:37:25 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:37:46 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:38:33 -!- k1w2u3 has joined. 14:59:11 -!- k1w2u3 has quit ("Leaving"). 15:04:07 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 15:07:49 * Sgeo points out that there is now an active #psox channel 16:23:15 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:29:30 -!- jix has joined. 16:35:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:41:34 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p264151235.txt <<< code sample ! 17:41:38 gotta go -> 17:49:31 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:31 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:32 -!- ehird` has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:32 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:49:33 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:50:04 -!- EgoBot has joined. 17:50:04 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 17:50:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 17:50:04 -!- helios24 has joined. 17:50:04 -!- fizzie has joined. 18:21:38 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 18:22:45 hi 18:22:54 * Sgeo slumps over from tiredness 18:26:01 * bsmntbom1dood punches Sgeo in the tired 18:29:08 that'll hurt in the morning 18:31:22 -!- ihope has joined. 18:47:45 ihope, #psox ? 18:48:10 gosh stop plugging it Sgeo 18:48:10 :P 19:02:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:09:22 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:15:34 Hi sebbu 19:15:35 sebbu2, 19:28:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:43:18 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 19:45:04 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:48:31 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:48:57 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:06:07 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:26:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:28:25 5 22:51:13 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:55:37 -!- Nucleo has joined. 23:01:18 -!- Nucleo has changed nick to Nucleo_. 23:01:24 -!- Nucleo_ has changed nick to Alleria_. 23:06:14 . 23:44:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:55:06 Testing factorial program in brainfuck. 23:55:23 dbc: cool 23:55:37 decimal output? 23:55:55 Yeah. 23:56:23 bf random.b | bf byte2dec.b | bf factorial.b | bf numwarp.b = oh wow 23:56:24 :P 23:56:50 Keymaker beat me to it, in fact he made one quite a while ago. But I still didn't take it off my to-do list, and I was bored today. 23:57:04 Reversible Thue would be interesting. 23:57:05 Ah. No, this one doesn't take input. That would actually be easier, thinking about it. 23:57:33 It just guesses what number you want? :-) 23:57:34 Or if not easier, at least maybe shorter. 23:57:39 No, it computes all of them. 23:57:47 it can compute infinite numbers in finite time? 23:57:48 impressive 23:57:55 Or more strictly, it computes any given one. 23:57:56 Indeed. 23:58:02 in finite time. 23:58:04 haskell taken to the logical extreme i guess 23:58:05 ;) 23:58:12 * ihope computes all of them 23:58:13 Done! 23:58:19 ihope: what's the last factorial? 23:58:25 ehird`: what's the last integer? 23:58:44 ihope: the .. um .. factorial-root of the last value your program outputted 23:58:44 ;) 23:59:00 Negation of "it computes all factorials" is "there is a factorial it doesn't compute", right? 23:59:06 Which is wrong. 23:59:09 Well, it kind of ran faster and faster and then stopped suddenly. 23:59:22 ihope: Running on an infinity machine? 23:59:25 Each factorial took half as long to compute as the last one. 23:59:27 That'd be the clockspeed halfing. 23:59:51 Oh, I remember. The last factorial is 0. 2007-11-07: 00:00:04 second-last? 00:00:08 Also 0. 00:00:15 one quadrillionth-last? 00:00:22 Also 0. 00:01:37 -!- ihope_ has joined. 00:01:53 Um, momentito. 00:02:12 what's the factorial of pi? 00:02:20 ;) 00:02:38 (Decreasing first the last decimal place, then the second last, etc. of course) 00:02:49 About 7.188082728976031. 00:02:59 Wait, doing what? 00:03:16 I'm just hoping that doing that doesn't change the result :-P 00:05:11 Take pi, fully calculated to all digits (yes, i am being sarcastic here ;)) 00:05:28 Then, take the last decimal digit of pi (here referred to as -1, second-last being -2 etc) 00:05:28 Well, gee. 00:05:35 Or rather 00:05:44 since n! = n * (n-1)! 00:06:18 instead of (n-1), pretend it's (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one) 00:06:22 :D 00:06:39 of course, when that gets to 0, you go to -2 00:06:39 etc 00:08:38 -!- ihope__ has joined. 00:08:46 n! = n * (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one)!? 00:08:52 yes 00:09:03 n! = n * (n but with last_decimal_place decreased by one)!? 00:09:03 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Reconnecting"). 00:09:09 xD 00:09:15 so, the question is, with that definition, what is pi! 00:09:18 Yay, the lag's over. 00:09:29 (pi!) of course, not pi exclamation :P 00:09:34 With that definition, I'd say that pi! = 0. 00:09:43 why? 00:09:53 pi! = pi * (pi + tiny)! 00:09:59 no 00:10:03 pi! = pi * (pi - tiny)! 00:10:10 Oh. Close enough. 00:10:15 Should be huge 00:10:27 OK, let me rephrase 00:10:30 imagine 314! 00:10:31 pi! = pi * pi!, 1 = pi or pi! = 0. 00:10:39 now, imagine 3.14! 00:10:49 it's just 314!, except the decimal place is retained 00:10:58 instead of 314 * 313 * 312 * ... 00:11:04 it's 3.14 * 3.13 * 3.12... 00:11:08 Ah. 00:11:15 except, of course, with the "full" pi ;) 00:11:45 Well, first, it's 314! / 10^314, about. 00:12:04 The limit as 314 approaches infinity of that is infinity. 00:12:15 Well, using just 3.14 * 3.13 * ... * 3 * 2 * 1, 00:12:26 we get 1773.788818464 00:12:29 (approx.) 00:12:41 What's ... there? 00:12:50 in total it's 00:12:51 3.14 * 3.13 * 3.12 * 3.11 * 3.1 * 3 * 2 * 1 00:13:06 Ah. 00:13:13 since, of course, 3.1 (it would come to 310 with 314!) is 3.10 00:13:23 So it's some big product. :-) 00:14:13 Of course it wildly changes with only two more digits of precision 00:14:22 1704185.70729987 is the result with 3.1415 00:14:31 So. It'll be big. 00:14:34 ;) 00:38:14 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:02:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 01:03:11 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 01:04:02 -!- ihope has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:04:05 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 01:04:36 -!- ihope_ has joined. 01:04:50 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:36:28 -!- ihope__ has joined. 01:47:14 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:04:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:09:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:14:37 Okay, I let it run and now it has calculated up to 1285!. 02:15:14 Make that 1288!. 02:23:20 what has? 02:41:45 The BF factorial program? 02:42:06 * ihope__ loads up GHCI 02:42:59 Up to 647! so far. 02:43:57 -!- immibis has joined. 02:44:25 1811!. 02:44:32 does anyone know of a *free* program that reads rss feeds and sends new messages to a specified mailbox via smtp? 02:50:20 greasemonkey: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748 02:50:34 * immibis slaps himself on the head, realising greasemonkey isn't here right now 02:51:33 If you're not past 4000! yet, dbc, you need to fix your interpreter. :-P 02:53:15 Maybe. 02:54:35 Ordinarily I would be using a compiler if I were in a real hurry. 02:54:51 Indeed. 02:55:14 Did anyone do anything with your busy beaver task? 02:55:26 * immibis wonders what ihope__ and dbc are talking about 02:55:34 * immibis reads the irc log 02:55:46 * immibis sees that you are running a BF factorial program. 02:56:14 Yeah. 02:56:23 * immibis wonders if the program uses this simple algorithm: 02:56:28 1. Start with 1. 02:56:28 2. Print the number. 02:56:33 no wait 02:56:34 thats not right 02:56:52 Stop making me look stupid, immibis. 02:58:18 http://pastebin.ca/764341 this algorithm 02:59:09 iterate (\(x,y) -> (x+1,y*(x+1))) (0,1) 02:59:18 Not exactly. 02:59:26 ? 02:59:32 what language is that? 02:59:38 Haskell. 02:59:57 * immibis does not know haskell 03:03:17 1441! 03:03:20 :) 03:04:23 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal"). 03:09:11 Now? 03:09:21 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope. 03:10:21 Hm? 03:10:37 Never mind. 03:29:22 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:30:30 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:37:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:57:53 -!- oklopl has joined. 03:58:48 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:59:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:04:01 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:13:59 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Say What?"). 05:33:48 -!- oklopl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:39:41 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:41:57 -!- oklopol has joined. 06:23:49 (04:55:00) immibis reads the irc log 06:23:50 (04:55:11) immibis sees that you are running a BF factorial program. 06:23:56 i have a lot to learn 06:24:09 took me like 6 minutes to read it 06:42:47 -!- faxathisia has joined. 06:43:03 :D hi 06:43:40 woah, the ais523 guy used to hang here? 07:23:56 I don't know that he's /stopped/, but presumably he has a bit more of a life now :P 07:25:11 spending all that money :) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:39 grr so like parsers suck 08:19:17 I think It's possible to have an ambiguous lexer constrained by a parser if the whole thing is written like a logic program 08:19:44 and using logic programming technique, hopefully any parser could also be an unparser 08:21:12 I looked at um... Yacc and Parsec 08:21:39 * faxathisia wonders if anyone knows of some different types of parser 08:54:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:00:44 -!- faxathisia has quit. 09:07:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:30:50 -!- faxathisia has joined. 11:12:27 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 13:48:42 -!- jix has joined. 14:59:05 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:03:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:05:28 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:06:34 -!- SimonRC has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:06:39 -!- SimonRC has joined. 15:20:56 hm 15:37:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:38:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:27:47 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 16:29:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:29:30 -!- jix has joined. 16:35:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:44:55 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:45:01 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:45:13 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 17:55:17 hi jix, Tritonio_, etc 17:55:42 hello ehird`! 17:57:24 -!- cherez has joined. 18:09:01 -!- Slereah- has joined. 18:13:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:14:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:25:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:28:31 Anyone here interested in PSOX? 19:01:34 Hello? 19:03:00 I cannot say! 19:09:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:27:54 I just had to solder together a power cable for my printer. Because I let the end with the plug dangle out of a car and it ended up severed. (I was tired.) 19:28:22 :/ 19:28:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:30:03 The good thing is, now my printer will have a twelve-foot power cable :/ 19:38:42 haha 19:40:58 ... 19:41:00 Wow 19:41:56 GregorR, #psox 19:42:49 speaking of printers 19:42:51 I just installed a new one 19:42:53 speaking of Sgeo 19:42:57 you've said #psox enough 19:43:03 use /invite ;P 19:43:11 * Sgeo has been doing that too >.> 19:54:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:14:46 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 20:38:18 -!- Meep-Eep has joined. 20:41:05 -!- Meep-Eep has left (?). 20:43:52 -!- Treora has joined. 20:44:47 ping? 20:46:47 -!- Treora has left (?). 20:47:36 Ping! 20:48:44 Hi Tre 20:48:50 darn 20:49:49 what's psox 20:50:10 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox.txt 20:50:55 PSOX is a layer that goes between stdin/stdout and an esolang that can only do stdin/stdout. It will provide things such as file manipulation and HTTP stuff to languages like Brainfuck 20:51:19 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:51:23 Hi RedDak 20:58:16 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 20:58:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:58:46 re RedDak 20:59:16 sexual deviant 21:00:43 ?? 21:01:04 bonobos are fucking awesome 21:01:29 Substract "awesome" to the statement. 21:01:41 bsmntbombdood is generating random text programmatically 21:01:45 ;) 21:01:51 no 21:02:01 wow, lucky one 21:02:07 you won't be able to get a good match like that again 21:02:16 yes i will 21:02:22 shit, that's good 21:02:44 i bet you wish your girlfriend was hot like me 21:08:57 bsmntbombdood: foodlesnap 21:10:53 s/awesome/bsmntbombdood/ 21:11:01 GregorR: sweet 21:11:11 s/bsmntbombdood/ehird` 21:11:14 "battle of the regexps" 21:11:32 You both really like bonobos, in a creepy way, apparently. 21:11:44 ehird`, you like regexes in IRC, but not PSOX? meh 21:11:46 lol 21:12:23 irc is human-evaluated 21:12:33 GregorR: oh fuck 21:12:40 "bonobos are fucking ehird`" 21:12:54 :P 21:13:05 s/fucking/not at all like/ 21:13:08 mwahahaha 21:13:17 bonobos? 21:13:31 ehird`: Then you're clearly an alien. 21:13:42 Maybe i'm a fundamentalist Christian! :P 21:13:44 Ok probably not. 21:13:52 What's a bonobo? 21:13:56 Sgeo: ... 21:14:05 Sgeo, meanwhile, is learning about esolangs while forgetting about primates 21:14:45 ehird`: I presume that you're not, because if you were you'd be an idiot, and I don't like to make such assumptions about people :P 21:14:50 GregorR: :P 21:15:16 (Meanwhile, all 4 fundamentalist Christians on freenode are trying to get you k-lined) 21:15:33 there are fundy Christians on FN? 21:15:39 4 of them 21:15:40 :P 21:15:41 I'm sure there are, somewhere. 21:15:43 They're lost. 21:15:47 Sgeo: the coolest monkey ever 21:15:58 GregorR: http://www.christianasp.net/ 21:16:04 Fundamentalists are the coolest monkey? 21:16:09 I'm going to assume that's NSFW 21:16:11 nope 21:16:17 dbc: No, intelligent humans are ^^ 21:16:19 NSFM - mind, though 21:16:49 I'm soooo shocked that it's ASP.NET :P 21:16:57 Two great things that taste great together! 21:16:58 ...Christian ASP? 21:17:04 Yep 21:17:06 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:17:09 .....WHY? 21:17:13 Hosting and ASP programming for churches! 21:17:16 "What's that?" "That's the badge of my order." "What's your order?" "Primates. Why, what's yours?" 21:17:30 dbc: GOD'S CREATION. 21:17:36 :) 21:17:53 I wonder if they prey when the servers go down 21:18:00 Dear Lord, please this day give us our daily SSH 21:18:03 I doubt it, but they probably pray. 21:18:12 They may go a'huntin', too. 21:18:32 And: SSH? Really? No. 21:19:12 I'm thinking Microsoft ASP.NET Website Manager 2009 21:19:16 hahah 21:19:40 in #esoteric we are united by two things: hate of ASP and hate of most christians 21:19:51 :P 21:20:04 (most christians ARE pretty fundamentalist) 21:20:17 I don't know if that's true. 21:20:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:20:28 I just have a general disdain for religion, with a specific hate for fundies :) 21:22:45 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:24:22 dundies 21:24:38 goddamn my interents 21:26:56 o 21:28:09 faxathisia: i know lots of parsers 21:28:35 cool 21:28:50 I am probably going to try writing a simple one soon 21:29:49 oklopol: what parsers do you know which aren't like yacc or parsec? 21:29:52 write an english parser 21:32:33 faxathisia: well i just started making a recal-parser, and i made my tode-parser some time ago... 21:32:52 hmf 21:33:10 I find it hard to differentiate between parser and (parser generator or language in which it's easy to write parsers) 21:33:11 i think everyone here has made a parser 21:33:18 but not many have made a generic one.. 21:33:26 i can parse sexps!! 21:33:55 and sexy pee 21:33:55 I CAN HAS SEX P[L]S? 21:33:57 Have I made a parser? I don't _think_ so 21:34:12 * Sgeo is no good with stringy stuff 21:34:44 * oklopol doesn't hate anyone 21:34:59 so? 21:35:02 perhaps individuals occasionally 21:35:09 (ehird`) in #esoteric we are united by two things: hate of ASP and hate of most christians 21:35:17 haha 21:35:33 my stomach kills me 21:35:37 * Sgeo doesn't hate ASP 21:35:48 I've never used it, and don't know it, so how can I have it? 21:35:54 oklopol: a few ounces of semen a day keeps the ulcers away 21:36:02 2 bottles of ED and 4 coffees today 21:36:09 i like coffee a bit more than my body 21:36:10 Nor do I hate Christians.. Christianity I disagree with, but I don't dislike Christians.. 21:36:17 2 bottles of erectile dysfunction? 21:36:20 How do you bottle that? 21:36:30 ed is a finnish energy drink 21:36:46 "micturient" is a cool word 21:36:46 i've told that 3 times on this channel, don't you read my random ramblings from the logs?!?!? 21:37:08 2 bottles of erectile dysfunction? 21:37:09 How do you bottle that? 21:37:35 i guess you stuff your penis in a bottle or something 21:38:02 first mash it with a hammer or something, and it surely won't erect 21:38:38 ow 21:40:58 -!- ihope has joined. 21:41:11 Nor do I hate Christians.. Christianity I disagree with, but I don't dislike Christians.. 21:41:12 erm 21:41:18 I mean, hi ihope 21:41:21 Hello. 21:41:36 I'm going to flip a googol of coins! 21:41:40 kay, if i said "i'm fucking tired", would you say i should "go to sleep", "code tic-tac-toe" or be witty and tell me to "just let her sleep and learn grammar"? 21:42:14 i had to add the last one, because anything with fuck will be tinkered with anyway 21:42:18 "tinker" 21:42:20 i think that's peeing 21:42:50 no 21:43:07 i no 21:43:11 tinker is to fiddle 21:43:27 * oklopol knows thatzzz 21:43:38 * faxathisia tinkles 21:43:44 * oklopol gargles 21:43:46 Sgeo: most christians in my experience mention it often 21:43:49 How curious. The first 5 * 10^99 coins were all heads. 21:43:51 Sgeo: purposefully to inflame you 21:44:17 or to just tease me a bit, maybe? 21:44:27 * Sgeo is thinking of one person in particular 21:44:46 HALT THE TALKING 21:44:48 FOR IT IS NOW 21:44:51 SUPER DANCE EXPLOSION TIME 21:44:54 either way they're going to hell for not respecting the lord's word ;) 21:45:08 * bsmntbombdood micturates 21:46:02 * GregorR fiddles with the roof. 21:46:09 The roof isn't a very good musician though. 21:46:15 HAW HAW L'PUNS ARE L'UNFUNNAY 21:46:27 we don't need no water let the mother fucker burn 21:47:04 Hmm. Anybody know what 7.5*10^99 choose 5*10^99 is? 21:47:30 -!- k1w2u3 has joined. 21:47:44 somewhere around 100 i think 21:48:46 ............... 21:48:55 I suspect it's a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit higher than that. 21:49:06 hmm 21:49:08 perhaps 21:49:12 like 200 21:49:15 or smth 21:49:28 oklopol: it's ... 'several' orders bigger 21:49:36 you mean like seven? 21:49:41 207 21:49:58 yeah, that might be closer, but i prefer nice round numbers when not sure. 21:50:10 132.7 orders of magnitude 21:50:11 I'll just assume it's 20. 21:50:21 bsmntbombdood: have you actually calculated it? 21:50:22 I would say it's several hundred orders of magnitude bigger. 21:50:30 haha, 20 xD 21:50:34 ihope: no i just felt like saying that 21:50:35 like it could be *that* little 21:51:01 Well, anyway, the next 2.5*10^99 coins were all tails. 21:51:04 puzzlingly google's calculator refuses to accept that :P 21:51:09 :D 21:51:12 it calculates the individual numbers, tohugh 21:51:23 hmm, does google know choose? 21:51:25 methinks they have some, uh, checks in there ;) 21:51:26 and yes 21:51:33 I should just write a computer program to flip all these coins. 21:51:34 oh, just ncr? 21:51:43 http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=14+choose+8&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a 21:51:47 x choose y 21:51:59 Wow, that's pretty cool. 21:52:00 * bsmntbombdood types binom(7.5*10^99, 5*10^99); into maxima and waits 21:52:12 oh, "choose" for choose :O could that *be* less intuitive... 21:52:33 and it does accept embedded exprs: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=04X&q=%2814*1%29+choose+%284*2%29&btnG=Search&meta= 21:52:41 but, alas, not 7.5*10^99 and its ilk ;) 21:52:59 http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=c5X&q=%287.5*10%5E99%29+choose+%285*10%5E99%29%3D&btnG=Search&meta= even with = to force 21:53:16 * bsmntbombdood interrupts that due to slowness 21:53:28 bsmntbombdood: gosh how suprising 21:53:52 it wuz using my precious memories and clock sykles 21:54:02 Bounds would be just as useful as the number itself. 21:54:25 20 was a good enough lower bound to find that the next coins were all tails. 21:54:42 ihope: Try 34985743958743589734 21:54:53 Try it for what? 21:54:55 I should mention that choose isn't useful, since it will be off by thousands of orders of magnitude. 21:54:56 Also, are you using a program? If so I want it I like useless programs :P 21:55:00 And as a lower bound/higher bound 21:55:07 GregorR: Of course, but who cares 21:55:09 I can write a program to do this. 21:55:10 GregorR: It's closer than 20 21:55:18 ihope: ...in redivide? 21:55:31 ehird`: Probably not appreciably closer. 21:55:32 GregorR: well, the scientific notations are exact. 21:55:37 GregorR: only if the scientific notation is an approximation... 21:55:43 ehird`: does it HAVE to be in Redivider? :-P 21:55:46 YES 21:55:47 Well, if they're exact, then yeah. 21:55:54 How often is scientific notation actually exact? :P 21:56:02 7.5*10^99 is pretty exact... 21:56:06 When it's expressing halves of a googol? :-P 21:56:07 it is when the numbers are created for the experiment 21:56:08 What's Redivider? 21:56:09 :D 21:56:14 yeah 21:56:18 Sgeo: ihope's substitution language 21:56:23 ihope: :P 21:56:38 ihope: google's calculator calculates googol/2 for the record 21:56:38 Not really substitution; it's inspired by Parsec and such combinator parsers. 21:56:39 Suffice to say that your power would probably need to be represented in scientific notation :P 21:56:47 x*10^(y*10^z) 21:57:55 Let's express everything in scientific notation! In this game I currently have 7.2*10^(1*10^0) gold. 21:59:20 '0' isn't scientific notation, you need 0*10^(0^10^(...)) 21:59:26 hahah 21:59:36 Erm, with 0*10 in that inner paren >_> 22:00:27 I have (1*10^(1*10^999999)↑↑(1*10^99999))↑↑(1*10^(1*10^999999)↑↑(1*10^99999)) golds! 22:00:43 yewkneecohd 22:00:53 That's a whole lot of gold. 22:01:04 Even more than atoms in 'em universe! 22:01:05 I have g_64 gold! 22:01:09 OH SNAP. 22:01:14 Alternatively 22:01:21 I have A(g_64,g_64) gold! 22:01:28 ack ! 22:01:33 erman 22:01:41 n 22:02:01 I think compose graham (graham 64) 64 is bigger. 22:02:14 No, the ackermann function is pretty good ;) 22:02:31 Its formal definition: Takes two numbers, and outputs something big. 22:03:02 GLYCYLGLYCYLGLYCYLGLYCINE has a 19-letter internal palindrome from the first to the last C and another 19-letter palindrome from the first G to the last G [Nick Papuga]. 22:03:11 faxathisia: that's... useful 22:03:18 I think even G_G_G_G_G_64 is bigger than A(G_64,G_64). 22:03:22 ihope: No. 22:03:32 ihope: A(g_64,g_64) is the xkcd number. 22:03:41 It's probably much bigger than G_G_G_G_G_64 22:03:46 Does that mean it's bigger than all other numbers? 22:03:51 heh 22:03:57 Well, obviously not. 22:04:02 the Clarkkkson number is bigger 22:04:03 A(g_64,g_64) + 1 is bigger. 22:04:11 A(G_64,G_64) is about G_64 ^(G_64) G_64. 22:04:15 but clarkkson is ... kind of arbitarily defined 22:04:17 Slereah-: hhahahaha 22:04:22 And no it isn't, ihope 22:04:28 It isn't? 22:04:38 There's some pretty big numbers involved with the busy beaver algorithm. 22:04:45 Which Ackermann function are you using? 22:04:50 Slereah-: Yeah, but BB isn't computable 22:05:03 Well, not for any BB algorithm. 22:05:10 But for a particular one, yes. 22:05:23 This one, ihope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_function#Definition_and_properties 22:05:25 The numbers grow quickly with the number of symbols and states. 22:06:13 Slereah-: For a particular one? no, that's == halting problem isn't it? 22:06:26 So A(m,n) = 2 ^(m-2) (n+3) - 3. 22:06:42 Well, the halting problem can be solved for a whole lot of algorithm! 22:06:46 Just not in general. 22:06:48 So A(G_64,G_64) is about 2 ^(G_64) G_64. 22:06:53 i don't think the halting problem says anything about solving a particular case :| 22:07:03 just when the solver can be encoded in the input. 22:07:04 ihope: That's Knuth's up-arrow notation, not exponential 22:07:28 Knuth's arrow notation is what I'm trying to confer. 22:07:28 You may be right. I have some hard time with computability theory. 22:07:33 who doesn't... 22:07:54 * oklopol needs more university 22:07:58 Alan Turing? 22:08:15 turing was gay! 22:08:19 I could have had a class on the subject next semester, but it was canceled. 22:08:21 Oh zing. 22:08:25 Thank you, oklopol, for that profound insight 22:08:37 He's probably rolling in his grave now :P 22:08:44 G_65 is 3 ^(G_64) 3, which isn't obviously greater than 2 ^(G_64) G_64. 22:08:48 For some reason, I was never able to find rule /34/ on Alan Turing. 22:08:52 Then again, he DID commit suicide because he was persecuted for homosexuality... 22:08:59 And yet, he should be an obvious target. 22:08:59 Slereah-: Oh jesus christ 22:09:05 Slereah-: I really hate you 22:09:09 o-o 22:09:28 Heh. 22:09:46 Slereah-: There are 10 A's in the Massachusetts lake name CHARGOGGAGOGGMANCHAUGGAUGGAGOGGCHAUBUNAGUNGAMAUGG 22:10:11 would be cool to get aroused by CA 22:10:18 * oklopol should learn that 22:10:25 CA? 22:10:29 cellular automata 22:11:24 It takes a pretty special definition of coolness. 22:11:42 There are 21 A's in the onomatopoeia AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 22:11:46 that would be *awesome* 22:12:11 It would inspire some aw, indeed! 22:12:22 There is a million A in a sequence of a million A. 22:12:40 GregorR: :D 22:12:57 -!- Slereah- has changed nick to Slereah. 22:13:42 -!- ehird` has left (?). 22:13:47 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:16:21 * oklopol has a theory humans can learn to get sexually excited by anything with universal behavior 22:17:18 erm, don't you mean hypothesis? 22:17:20 or more generally, an automaton can get excited by any automaton it can emulate, but can't emulate trivially, and gets the most excited by automatons similar to it 22:17:48 well i guess 22:17:51 In other word, WE CAN TEACH THE COMPUTER TO LOVE 22:17:51 i'm not sexually excited by turing machines 22:18:04 Slereah: Of course. Haven't you read Godel, Escher, Bach? ;) 22:18:12 Turing machines would be perfect for bondage, with that infinite tape. 22:18:19 No. 22:18:29 they aren't very similar to your workings, ehird`; it only means you *can* get excited by them 22:18:35 *sexually 22:19:25 human can get sexually excited by things without that 22:19:25 Slereah: It's a rambling hodgepodge of a book released in the 70s written by Douglas Hofstader (sp). It goes through various bizzare analogies and explanations and presents a theory of mind based on 'strange loops' and suggests this as a possible model for AI. 22:19:39 hmm... people can get excited by balloons... does that mean GregorR's pneumatic computer would most likely work? 22:19:42 Hofstadter, isn't it? 22:19:45 Slereah: It's very interesting, but Douglas is crazy :) Still, I believe it has some current value 22:19:48 ihope: yes, thanks 22:19:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%2C_Escher%2C_Bach 22:20:01 bsmntbombdood: damn, gotta agree on that :< 22:20:15 oklopol: Just imagine, tubes writhing, pumping in and out as the air fills them, ooh yes. 22:20:20 Only computation theory book I bought was "To mock a mockingbird". 22:20:27 It's like tentacle porn, but with more computation. 22:20:27 Although the accurate word is "ordered". 22:20:34 wait GEB is -worth- reading? 22:20:34 heh, i prefer doing it with water though 22:20:39 grar, not being tolerant to caffiene sucks 22:20:44 faxathisia: er, in my opinion 22:20:45 one coffee and i get the shakes 22:20:47 The internet provides pretty much the rest on computation. 22:20:59 bsmntbombdood: same thing, sometimes 22:21:01 ehird`: you're probably right.. I guess I'll check the library 22:21:04 i mean 22:21:04 i have. 22:21:11 I just assumed it was total garbage for some reason though :p 22:21:42 faxathisia: It's interesting but a bit mind-warping at parts :P The Tortoise/Achilles might annoy you, I've seen people who they do. I didn't mind them 22:21:59 777 pages of his odd explanation style can be a bit tough to read 22:22:52 i'm going to ignore what bsmntbombdood said about liking non-tc things, for i just realized i found the perfect proof for universality. 22:23:07 erection? yay, it's tc! 22:23:11 ... 22:23:35 tc? 22:23:47 that's great 22:23:51 turing complete 22:23:54 porn is turing complete? 22:24:05 i want some porn that runs brainfuck code, stat! 22:24:12 humans can be sexually attracted to anything 22:24:50 bsmntbombdood: drink way too much coffee 22:25:03 ... 22:25:05 Is that an order? 22:25:08 yeah, most programmers masturbate on their code, they just don't tell anyone 22:25:36 hmmm, i've never done that 22:26:24 one guy in my class told he once had an erection over a java tutorial :| 22:26:39 This man will never procreate. 22:26:39 well not in my class, my class' irc channel 22:26:52 Unless he can make a robot son of some sort. 22:27:03 he actually had sex some time ago, after having complained about not getting any for like 2 years 22:27:10 now he says sex was kinda dull 22:27:22 It lacked Turing Completeness. 22:27:35 yes! 22:28:02 this discussion is disturbing 22:28:09 in more ways than 5 22:28:25 Then, I won't make my "OUTPUT DATA!" during orgasm remark. 22:28:37 i'll try keeping it on the average disturbance level 22:28:54 I'm new around here, what's the average disturbance level? 22:29:06 depends 22:29:17 Much lower than this X-D 22:29:34 heh, prolly 22:30:41 * oklopol enjoys it esoteric 22:31:36 "it" 22:33:05 perhaps we should change the subject 22:33:16 * oklopol goes to sleep -> 22:33:52 so has anyone played tic-tac-toe without paper? 22:33:55 like, mentally 22:34:31 i kinda suck at that. 22:34:37 I barely play Tic Tac Toe on paper. 22:34:50 So not a lot of mentally either. 22:34:59 it's not about winning, it's about remembering the pattern 22:35:10 tic tac toe is trivial 22:35:13 ...at least as long as you can't even do that 22:35:13 first player wins, always 22:35:18 ehird`: lol :D 22:35:31 I can't believe some people cannot win tic-tac-toe 100% 22:35:37 just block everything 22:35:39 voila, draw 22:35:39 ehird`: Actually, there's at least one playing algorithm that can never lose for either player. 22:35:46 GregorR: yes -- i meant draw 22:35:48 ehird`: you win all the computer programs? 22:35:49 Ah 22:35:52 Yeah, draw != win :P 22:36:16 err... first player always wins, given perfect players 22:36:17 oklopol: um, of course... and all the real players 22:36:21 oklopol: and no 22:36:24 oklopol: it's always a draw 22:36:26 no. 22:36:31 or then i've been lied to 22:36:33 you have 22:36:34 can i see that on print? 22:36:37 go try this 22:36:38 http://boulter.com/ttt/ 22:36:45 oh sorry 22:36:46 if you can win every time i am impressed :P 22:36:51 i may be using wrong terminology 22:36:52 the AI is kinda dumb in that one too 22:37:00 i naturally mean infinite board 22:37:06 oh 22:37:07 well duh 22:37:11 >_O 22:37:13 "duh"? 22:37:28 i naturally mean infinite board // so you mean NOT tic-tac-toe X_X 22:37:32 yeah 22:37:33 tic tac toe is 3x3... 22:37:37 what's the name? 22:37:41 5-in-a-row? :P 22:37:42 Infinitac-toe 22:37:42 oh. 22:37:45 go-moku perhpas 22:37:48 *perhaps 22:37:55 Weird Derivative Of Tic-Tac-Toe With An Infinite Board :P 22:38:23 i mean the game where you try getting 5 in a row 22:38:27 What would be the rule on an infinite board? 22:38:31 3 in a row? 22:38:36 5 22:38:36 An infinity in a row? 22:38:42 nothing else makes sense 22:39:00 3/4 make the game trivial, 6 makes it impossible 22:39:07 impossible? 22:39:09 nay. 22:39:10 to win 22:39:25 also, i wish there was a language that could compile to java applets 22:39:33 or at least something with pixel-by-pixel graphics (NOT flash) 22:39:38 but something nicer 22:39:38 ehird`: Uhh, Java? 22:39:41 something like Python 22:39:48 GregorR: Yeah, but Java is ewwww to program in 22:39:56 Can Python compile to C? 22:40:00 No. 22:40:01 Hmm 22:40:04 Jython might work 22:40:04 Then you're boned :) 22:40:06 http://www.jython.org/Project/index.html 22:40:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:40:23 http://www.jython.org/applets/index.html That is win <3 22:40:35 But that loading time sucks ;P 22:41:27 Make your own browser plugin! :-P 22:41:32 Hahahahah no. 22:41:41 Compile to JavaScript. 22:41:41 Make your own browser and protocol! 22:41:50 And/or just use JavaScript, which is much better than you think it is. 22:41:59 GregorR: Actually I know javascript is love. 22:42:03 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:42:04 GregorR: It's very lispy 22:42:15 Oh, good - I was just using statistics for that last statement :P 22:42:24 GregorR: But - not feasable for implementing a simple 2d game, for instance 22:42:34 i.e. when i want to design my *own* menus and don't want flash's vector-ness 22:42:47 Canvas. 22:42:51 Java's awt applets are obviously perfect for that 22:42:53 but Java itself... 22:43:03 and canvas has, uhh, lots and lots of support and is really fast! 22:43:22 (Canvas is slow as shit and doesn't work on quite a number of browsers.) 22:43:36 It's supported in every major browser (with google's IE canvas hack) 22:43:49 it's still slow as shit 22:44:28 * GregorR hasn't had enough experience with it to judge its speed *shrugs* 22:44:30 -!- k1w2u3 has quit ("Leaving"). 22:44:35 My only experience is my JS 3D engine. 22:44:54 hmm 22:44:54 show me 22:45:11 My ultra-slow, crappy 3D engine? :P 22:45:25 Yes! 22:45:29 That only uses canvases for one-color walls, and uses s for everything else? 22:45:41 And wtf, my web site is down? >_O 22:45:42 yep 22:45:50 codu.org is up for me 22:46:01 Home computer, actually. 22:46:10 Eh, I'll just upload it to codu.org :P 22:46:58 http://codu.org/dcvogllmrcmcdp.ogg This is hypnotic 22:47:58 http://www.codu.org/js3d/3d.html 22:48:09 now that is slow 22:50:08 GregorR: Have you tried wolfenstein 3k? It's fast :P 22:50:16 hahaha 22:50:18 wolf einstein 22:50:20 3k 22:50:27 uh 22:50:29 5k 22:50:46 This uses the same theoretical technique. 22:50:49 (Raycasting) 22:51:03 But with more Gregor-doesn't-know-what-he's-doing. 22:51:21 I'm going to try Jython 22:51:35 If it works, you people can expect silly game ideas coded against your will randomly by me :P 22:51:59 If it works, you can expect me never to use any of them ^^ 22:52:03 :D 22:52:34 GregorR: you do really speak that fast, or is that computer aided? 22:52:42 oklopol: ? 22:52:47 Oh 22:52:50 that diet thing 22:52:51 At the end of that :P 22:52:55 yeah 22:52:56 oklopol: Obviously aided 22:52:59 I spoke at normal speed and used Audacity. 22:53:03 i speak finnish faster than that. 22:53:06 It doesn't sound quite human ^^ 22:53:22 GregorR: it reminds me of Farkle 22:53:27 i can read aloud faster than my friend reads 22:53:41 well yeah, it kinda sdluppers. 22:54:39 * Sgeo should get going.. NOW 22:54:42 Bye all 22:55:08 i can't make out what you say there, GregorR :< 22:55:11 what do you say? :D 22:55:21 well some of it. 22:55:53 oh, i think i got it 22:56:11 ... is not kosher. Do not drink ... if you are pregnant or think you may become pregnant. As with all sodas, ... has a risk of dependence. Please consult your doctor before drinking ... 22:56:44 Oh, I forgot one. 22:56:54 ... is not appropriate for children, nursing mothers or senior citizens. 22:57:02 "May cause spontaneous death" 22:57:03 okay, i didn't get that kosher thing, and thought you said you may become pregnant by drinking it 22:57:40 "The manufacturer shall not be liable for any mind controlling drugs present in the product" 22:57:42 If you've ever heard radio ads (in America?), the quick-talking guy at the end is the equivalent of small print :) 22:57:51 hmm, i vaguely recall some woman speaking 5 words a second 22:58:02 yeah, i know 22:58:17 i've seen a lot of american shows 22:58:50 hmm, i think i'll do some sleeping now -> 22:58:58 cya 22:59:23 Bye. 23:08:36 I'd like to try improvisational language again. 23:09:12 Call it Planlang, for obvious reasons. 23:10:33 Improvisational language = ? 23:11:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 23:12:15 ihope: hahaha 23:12:20 #planlang? 23:14:01 i wanted to learn that one language 23:14:08 toko pino or something like that 23:14:46 I WANNA TOK O PIANO 23:14:55 toki pona 23:14:58 I WANNA TACO PIANO 23:14:59 ihope: ping #planlang 2007-11-08: 00:20:02 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 00:24:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:24:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 00:26:44 -!- ihope__ has joined. 00:29:08 bsmntbombdood: toki pona 00:29:30 ah yes 00:31:16 anyone here know it? 00:31:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:33:59 i do 00:34:18 lament, hm? 01:03:29 -!- ihope__ has changed nick to ihope_. 01:03:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:20:16 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:20:17 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:20:17 -!- fizzie has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:20:17 -!- helios24 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:20:27 -!- helios24 has joined. 01:20:27 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:25:18 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:25:18 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:37:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:37:35 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:39:33 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:39:33 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:56:08 If you've ever heard radio ads (in America?), the quick-talking guy at the end is the equivalent of small print :) 01:56:38 Yeah, they should add it to songs too. "Proud to be an American...where at least I know I'm free somerestrictionsapplychecklocallistingsfordetails" 02:03:25 Kind of funny how we talk so big and we wave the flag and then someone smokes marijuana or sleeps with a seventeen-year-old and we lock them up with the murderers. 02:03:45 "Our commitment to the word 'freedom' is legendary." 02:12:55 -!- cpressey has joined. 02:14:44 in case you have not seen it yet 02:14:46 http://catseye.tc/projects/urreading/ 02:14:48 that is all. 02:33:55 * GregorR writes an esolang named Yartnote :P 02:38:49 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:40:58 Indeed, the idea of victimless crimes is plain old stupid in quite a many cases. 02:42:21 "Victimless crime" is a term usually applied to crimes with victims. 02:42:55 Well, I guess. 02:43:14 "Victimless crime" meaning "crime whose victims have all consented"? 02:43:46 More generally, "consensual act" :P 02:43:55 It doesn't make sense for any consensual act to be illegal. 02:45:13 * ihope nods 02:47:05 -!- immibis has joined. 02:47:55 Heh, Wikipedia's page on victimless crimes mentions consensual cannibalism, one that I bring up all the time. 02:48:57 Please eat me, GregorR. 02:49:07 Yee haw! 02:49:45 I usually put it into the case where there isn't even a consensual killing: If I was to, in my will, give my body to a friend of mine, under the stipulation that they eat it, would they even be legally allowed to? 02:50:54 * bsmntbombdood needs something to use for the cover of a journel/book 02:51:12 How about "HOW DU U SPEL JOURNEL?" 02:51:37 :-P 02:51:40 um 02:51:45 i spelled journel right 02:51:49 Journal? 02:52:08 errr 02:52:15 right >_< 02:52:32 -!- boily has joined. 02:53:46 Heh, Wikipedia page on victimless crime -> "Many proponents of reform argue that removal of these laws would be a boom to the economy." -> THE ECONOMY WILL EXPLODE? 02:56:46 consensual cannabalism 02:56:50 dolcett anyone? 03:06:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:16:24 Hi pikhq 03:30:03 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Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you can't laugh at yourself, mak). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:03:27 -!- jix has joined. 09:19:31 -!- noom has joined. 09:20:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:21:58 Will someone please echo the character at 0xFF09FB7 to the screen? 09:22:27 -!- noom has quit (Client Quit). 09:22:38 what? 09:22:45 I don't think there is such a character 09:23:36 maybe he meant memory address 09:27:49 I had 0x00 there, if /proc/kcore is telling me the truth. 10:05:10 -!- faxathisia has quit. 10:05:38 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:17:21 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 11:30:31 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 11:43:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:56:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:06:23 Hi Tritonio 12:06:29 http://worsethanfailure.com/Comments/Oh-The-Weather-Outside-is-Frightful.aspx#160265 12:19:38 Dividing by 10? What sort of mathemagic is this? 12:31:52 http://forums.worsethanfailure.com/forums/thread/136476.aspx 12:32:37 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1022757_cool_cash_card_confusion 12:41:37 hi Sgeo! 12:43:13 what's the first link? 12:44:31 hm? 12:54:42 -!- jix has joined. 12:59:43 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:11:39 Hi jix and ehird` 13:11:46 hello 13:14:16 Hello. 13:14:29 Sgeo: you don't respond to /invites how hypocritical :P 13:14:49 * Sgeo wasn't paying attention 13:27:24 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:27:34 -!- jix has joined. 13:33:43 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 13:34:07 -!- jix has joined. 13:51:56 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:53:17 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:26:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:44:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:44:30 hi Slereah 14:44:39 Hi. 15:18:37 ihope: pikhq: ping 15:40:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:26:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:18:11 -!- importantshock has joined. 17:29:54 Hello. 17:30:00 elho 17:32:30 howdy. 18:08:28 -!- zuzu has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:08:28 -!- tokigun has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:09:26 -!- tokigun has joined. 18:12:24 -!- zuzu has joined. 18:17:22 -!- faxathisia has joined. 18:22:56 -!- pikhq has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:22:56 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:24:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:24:53 -!- sekhmet has joined. 18:25:09 -!- sekhmet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:25:12 -!- sekhmet has joined. 18:32:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:32:23 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:32:23 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:35:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:35:33 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:35:33 -!- ihope has joined. 18:42:51 GregorR: you have an imposter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GregorB 18:45:13 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:45:13 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:45:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:46:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:46:24 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:46:24 -!- ihope has joined. 18:54:06 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:54:06 -!- cmeme has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:54:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:54:25 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:54:25 -!- cmeme has joined. 18:54:25 -!- ihope has joined. 18:54:59 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:01:15 GregorR: ping 19:02:43 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:02:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:05:44 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:05:44 -!- ihope has joined. 19:07:56 -!- importantshock has quit. 19:10:08 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:21:34 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 19:24:08 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:24:10 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:24:10 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:24:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:24:29 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:24:29 -!- ihope has joined. 19:29:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:31:53 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:31:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:31:54 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:33:10 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:33:10 -!- ihope has joined. 19:41:58 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:41:58 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:42:36 -!- faxathisia has joined. 19:42:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:45:03 -!- oklopl has joined. 19:45:45 -!- oklopol has quit (Success). 19:48:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:52:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 20:01:47 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:02:35 -!- faxathisia has joined. 20:12:51 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:12:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:13:48 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:13:48 -!- ihope has joined. 20:17:57 -!- importantshock has joined. 20:24:22 Hi importantshock 20:24:30 Hey there. 20:24:33 What's going on? 20:25:01 important stuff 20:25:07 So far, many "hi" between long hours of silence. 20:25:34 i am waiting for people to join #zingcode 20:25:35 :P 20:28:15 -!- oklopl has changed nick to oklokok. 20:38:43 pikhq: ping 20:38:57 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:38:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:39:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:39:16 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:39:16 -!- ihope has joined. 20:40:01 Hi RedDak, re Tritonio and ihope 20:40:32 GregorR: Do you mind me conceptually ripping some ideas from DPlof for my CZing implementation? :P 20:49:35 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:49:35 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:49:36 -!- RedDak has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:50:18 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:50:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:50:18 -!- ihope has joined. 20:52:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:55:23 -!- importantshock has quit ("Meh."). 21:10:44 ehird`: pong? 21:10:59 ihope: :P I can't remember why I pinged you. Probably #zingcode 21:37:40 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 21:37:58 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:38:59 rereddak 21:39:04 * Sgeo falls asleepdead 21:39:44 Sgeo: go to fucking bed 21:39:58 It's not nearly time to do that.. besides, I trie 21:40:00 tried 21:40:09 'time' is when you're tred. 21:42:05 I'm tired whenever I wake up from a nap or actual sleep.. 21:42:15 fix yourslf 21:42:16 :P 21:43:00 How do I do that? 21:44:05 recompile your code without optimization options 21:44:08 and with debug options 21:45:56 >.> 21:45:59 lol 21:46:49 that's a metaphor for "fix your sleep patterns" 21:47:32 * Sgeo wishes he knew how to do that 21:48:41 get up at a good time, go to sleep at a good time :P 21:49:19 that latter part is giving me difficult 21:49:23 difficulty 21:49:36 I go to bed, but can't fall asleep.. 21:51:06 -!- bsmntbom1dood has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 22:09:44 well 22:09:46 stay there 22:10:11 insomnia won't go away by ignoring it 22:17:08 abcdef 22:19:09 defabc 22:19:43 def abc: print "A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6" 22:20:21 -!- sekhmet has quit ("kernel"). 22:20:21 def abc() { println("A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6") } 22:20:25 Sorry, had a ZING MOMENT there. 22:25:56 -!- sekhmet has joined. 22:26:01 Hi sekhmet 22:26:40 Er, hi. 22:26:42 #psox? 22:26:55 What about #psox 22:26:59 PSOX is a layer that goes between stdin/stdout and an esolang that can only do stdin/stdout. It will provide things such as file manipulation and HTTP stuff to languages like Brainfuck 22:27:04 * Sgeo invited sekhmet 22:27:04 oh 22:27:09 Sgeo is spamming people again 22:27:09 :| 22:27:59 Yeah, apparently 22:28:02 Sgeo: maybe next time 22:33:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:20 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:05:57 -!- faxathisia has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:07:31 -!- faxathisia has joined. 23:09:18 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:09:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out). 23:11:05 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:24:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:24:46 -!- sebbu3 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:28:28 -!- sekhmet has joined. 2007-11-09: 01:00:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:01:35 Abc = Print "A B C! 1 2 3! A B C! 1 2 6" 01:04:02 faxathisia, where are you from? 01:04:23 oh and hi everybody! 01:04:27 Hi Tritonio 01:06:09 my head is spinning 01:07:16 i really need some sleep... so goodnight everyone. 01:08:37 'Night. 01:08:59 Tufleiz! 01:10:18 Or maybe "tufueo" would be a better word. 01:11:26 tufleiz? what that? 01:17:38 A couple words for "bye". 02:58:50 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:31:06 Tritonio: hi 03:40:50 -!- Arrogant has joined. 03:48:32 -!- Arrogant has quit ("Leaving"). 04:05:34 -!- noom has joined. 04:06:28 -!- noom has left (?). 04:48:29 hm 04:48:35 I wonder if this counts as esoteric 04:48:54 time-reversible language Janus http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~mpf/rc/janus.html 05:35:53 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:36:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:10:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:10:29 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:34:40 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 06:44:04 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:49:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:07:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:10:24 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:17:48 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:29:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:38:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:39:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:59:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:33:39 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:43:10 -!- ihope____ has joined. 11:43:23 -!- ihope____ has changed nick to ihope_. 12:08:58 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:11:15 -!- Dagide has joined. 12:20:45 faxathisia, is it that super-turing-complete language that can print the time needed by a program to execute even before it's execution? 12:20:58 no 12:21:06 It's not very special 12:21:16 You can run anything forwards and backwards in it, and there's a self interpreter 12:22:28 it just changes the direction of the execution? 12:23:23 yeah, example is setting n to 4 then calling fibonacci ends up with x = 5, y = 8 12:23:40 setting x to 5, y to 8, then uncalling fib ends up with n = 4 12:25:01 http://rafb.net/p/afuYxJ36.txt 12:25:33 (It's reversible since every operation is invertible) 12:27:52 -!- Dagide has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 12:28:04 -!- dak has joined. 12:29:29 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:27:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:20:09 -!- Slereah- has joined. 14:34:00 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:34:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:52:53 -!- jix has joined. 15:02:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:06:23 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:10:31 -!- dak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:11:28 faxathisia: turing complete? 15:11:43 FINITE STATE MACHINE 15:12:08 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:18:54 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:19:58 -!- Dagide has joined. 15:20:29 god i'm stupid 15:20:36 i'm writing a brute-force tic-tac-toe algo for the hell of it 15:20:43 and i was calling make_move from within my bruteforcer 15:20:48 which calls brute_force to decide a move... 15:21:05 wait 15:21:06 that can work 15:21:20 -!- Dagide has quit (Client Quit). 15:21:46 -!- dak has joined. 15:22:34 -!- dak has quit (Client Quit). 15:38:26 -!- RedDak has quit (Connection timed out). 15:54:35 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:55:45 -!- RedDak has quit (Client Quit). 15:57:46 -!- RedDak has joined. 16:07:59 WHAT THE HELL 16:08:11 copy_game(ng) is changing ml2? 16:08:12 how the hell 16:50:20 oklopol: ihope: megaping #zingcode 17:03:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:03:15 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:09:56 oklopol: ping 17:09:59 ihope: ping 17:32:17 oklopol: okloping 17:32:19 ihope: iping 17:36:32 sheesh 17:50:17 ehird`, what do you mean brute force tic tac toe? 17:50:27 recursivelly searching the whole game tree? 17:50:34 Tritonio: try every possible move+response from the current one, select the best one 17:50:58 it kinda fails if you make the board bigger than 3x3 because of certain time complexity issues ;) 17:51:00 http://inshame.blogspot.com/search/label/My%20Progs%3A%20A%28X%29I%28O%29 17:51:19 that site makes my eyes bleed 17:51:29 ?? 17:51:38 background+text colour+etc 17:51:56 i thought it was ok... :-| 18:29:07 !! 18:29:10 Huh? 18:42:58 ? 19:10:47 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:29:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:49:21 ehird`: what is the time complexity of that algorithm? 19:49:37 bsmntbombdood: O(Fucking Slow) 19:51:05 np 19:51:11 Hahahah 19:51:19 GregorR: it's extended O notation 19:51:42 Oh you. 19:51:47 it adds three new definitions: O(Pretty Damn Fast), O(Faster than NOP) and O(Fucking Slow) 19:51:50 Sort of a qualitative big O :P 19:52:06 i don't think you can solve much with a O(Faster than NOP) algorithm, though 19:52:24 O(DONE!) 19:52:40 O(Quantum algorithm that finishes before you run it) 19:53:44 Let's send the electric signal FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT 19:53:51 Slereah-: With SCIENCE! 19:53:57 SCIENCE! 19:54:09 Ooh, I just downloaded the 5th next version of the Linux kernel. 19:54:18 It's compressed to 1 byte, in the future. 19:54:35 So, what number is that byte! 19:54:44 Tell me, so that I can say I invented it! 19:54:46 I'm having some problems getting the uncompressor downloaded though. 19:55:06 Slereah-: Sorry - if I told you a quantum paradox would appear and you would disappear from all possible universes according to string theory. 19:56:20 Nonsense. 19:56:25 Don't you remember Star Trek 4? 19:56:33 With the transparent aluminium. 19:56:36 In the future Star Trek is old fashioned! 19:56:41 "Won't that change the future?" 19:56:47 "Maybe he invented it!" 19:56:49 "Ah!" 19:57:58 OKAY, KUBUNTU INSTALL TIME. SEE YOU SOON. :p 19:58:57 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:04:58 Downloaded: 87,976,782 bytes in 2832 files 20:05:54 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:18:36 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 20:24:06 ELHO, DROWLD 20:24:30 : SAY-HELLO ." HELLO WORLD" ; SAY-HELLO 20:25:27 Welcome back, world. 20:26:24 : WELCOME-BACK ." Welcome back, " USERNAME . ." ." ; WORLD @ WELCOME-BACK 20:26:40 Heh. 20:27:00 Forth :) 20:31:03 Entity = :[ name, init = (sname as string){ name = sname; }, greet = { println("Hello, " + name + "!"); } ]; world = new(Entity, "world"); world.greet() 20:31:08 ^ Plof, I think that's right 20:36:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:36:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:41:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:51:18 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:52:54 -!- elliott_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:53:11 -!- ehird` has joined. 20:58:04 On Wednesday, I got an email that used quotes for emphasis (You "CAN NOT" do blah blah blah). I couldn't help but send an email back pointing out that that's not only an incorrect use of quotes, but that the implication of quotes there is exactly the opposite of what he wants. I got one of these back: "In my 10+ years experience blah blah blah blah" 20:58:34 That's nice 20:58:34 :P 20:58:43 Now why is Kopete crashing when I connect to MSN??? 20:58:59 Because MSN is the suck? 20:59:03 i don't understand why people use quotes for emphasis 20:59:14 Because they're stupid? 20:59:31 GregorR: I know it's the suck 20:59:35 But most people I know use it 21:01:33 People should subscribe to prescriptive English manuals and make note of which ones they are whenever they say anything. 21:02:16 Also, pong. 21:03:09 Dad, have you ever thought bout the fact that when men gather in a sauna, they sit in a lot of sweat from other men's buttocks, testicles, and anus? Is it some kind of experiment with homosexuality that heteros secretly allow themselves, because they're all basically confused about their sexuality? 21:04:27 Heteros are all basically confused about their sexuality? I'm definitely hetero, then. I mean, hi. 21:05:04 i'm not confused! 21:05:49 So is everybody either "confused heterosexual" or "definite homosexual", or... 21:05:51 jeez i bring up sex in here a lot >_< 21:06:12 ihope: no... 21:09:46 #esoteric-sex 21:09:57 esoteric sex! 21:09:59 i like it 21:21:03 -!- ihope____ has joined. 21:21:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:21:17 -!- ihope____ has changed nick to ihope_. 21:23:39 -!- ihope____ has joined. 21:28:53 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:34:58 It bothers me when people use "may have" in place of "might have" to describe something that is known not to have happened. 21:35:58 This channel is esoteric about its topic being esoteric programming languages. 21:35:59 ;) 21:36:20 "Groundhog Day": "If you hadn't been here, Bill would have choked to death for sure!" "Well, he may have, he was trying to swallow a whole cow."= 21:38:50 -!- ihope_ has quit (Connection timed out). 21:46:30 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:50:43 my epenis itches 21:50:47 i might have eherpes 21:51:29 That's what happen when you have too much cybersex. 21:54:03 i'm going to change my pants 21:55:46 *epants 21:58:16 no, i'm chaning my real pants 22:06:55 bsmntbombdood: I don't know whether it is or not, I'll try to prove it once the interpreter is finished 22:07:18 I'm quite sure it is.. since everything is bloody universal 22:10:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:11:16 i guess turing machine steps are reversible 22:11:21 so it could be turing complete 22:11:42 wait 22:11:43 are they? 22:11:48 no 22:11:49 well 22:11:54 it says that reversible turing machines exist 22:12:32 turing machines are revisible if their transition functions are bijective 22:16:07 of course 22:16:16 most aren't 22:20:27 http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Alden-Cockburn-MD-D45E5C3F.cfm 22:20:37 http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Harry-Beaver-MD-FD3B8B34.cfm 22:20:45 The common definition of a Turing machine is irreversible, but irreversibility is not a requirement for Turing completeness. 22:22:54 I can prove it's turing complete by writing brainfuck in it, + - < > invert into - + > <.. And I can simply store a choice point (duplicate the store) at each [ 22:30:01 i don't understand the [ part 22:33:32 Take note of whether the loop was entered or not? 22:33:46 That's enough to reverse a BF program, no? 22:36:01 i think you need to know how many times the loop was loopzored 22:37:38 guh 22:37:42 wtf is the point of ties? 22:38:12 what's the point of clothes 22:38:18 yeah really 22:38:48 oklopol: same thing, isn't it? 22:39:23 ihope: whut? 22:41:21 Am I insane for thinking a JavaScript MMIX simulator would be nice? 22:41:39 No 22:41:41 Do it now 22:41:48 Wait... 22:41:50 It WAS done 22:41:54 ?! 22:41:55 there was a link on reddit a while back 22:42:02 Let me find it. 22:42:45 Hypothetically, one could C->JS with this >:) 22:43:05 Wait, no. 22:43:08 It wasn't done. Sorry. 22:43:14 There was SOME sort of well-known arch done, though 22:43:33 x86? :P 22:44:13 hahhaa 22:44:13 no :P 22:44:16 it was a RISC 22:48:53 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:03:01 GregorR: what can gcc output, instruction set-wise? 23:03:04 err, rather, as 23:05:17 Uh, lots of things :P 23:05:20 But amongst them is MMIX. 23:08:20 lots of things :P is there a list somewhere? 23:08:24 (Can it do OISC? ;)) 23:09:17 GregorR: http://www.recreationalmath.com/mixal/ MIX, but not MMIX 23:09:36 Unfortunately, GCC doesn't target MIX, only MMIX :( 23:09:44 There's a list at gcc.gnu.org . The link on the right that says "back ends" 23:11:26 bsmntbombdood: I can't do anything which removes information 23:11:32 or the program will runtime error 23:11:42 so if you have the current cell = 3, and you hit [-] 23:11:59 There must be a way, when running backwards to know when to exit the loop on the left 23:12:17 I'll actually code this soon, it probably make more sense than my rambling 23:15:05 GregorR: How hard is it to write a backend? :P 23:15:30 ihope: if by "same thing" you meant "Take note of whether the loop was entered or not?" == "you need to know how many times the loop was loopzored", i don't see what you mean 23:15:53 ehird`: I've never tried, I'm a pansy like that. Suffice to say that I determined you can't write one for BF :P 23:16:09 (It won't work on platforms with no registers) 23:16:23 A MISC/OISC one would probably be feasible. 23:16:39 (No registers, but you can always just claim a specific chunk of memory as registers) 23:18:01 Ah--I meant to take note at every opportunity. 23:19:47 GregorR: Feasable, but would it be EASY to get something working? :P 23:19:59 No. Not even the slightest bit. 23:20:12 heh 2007-11-10: 00:19:14 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:45:10 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:55:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:55:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:12:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:14:00 -!- ihope____ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 01:18:42 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:18:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:26:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("brb"). 01:31:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:31:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:40:44 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone"). 02:38:58 How should http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX be categorized? 03:05:02 !bfgen @_@ 03:05:06 Huh? 03:05:19 !help 03:05:22 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 03:05:24 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 03:06:42 !bf_txtgen @_@ 03:07:12 46 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<. [294] 03:07:30 !bf8 ++++++++[>++++++++>++++++++++++>><<<<-]>.>-.<. 03:07:34 @_@ 03:07:44 bf8? 03:07:53 8 bit cells I guess 03:10:25 http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms 03:10:44 I need more algorithms and constants and stuff :D 03:11:34 You'll get stuff when PSOX is completed.. admittedly, it will be stuff relating to PSOX.. 03:12:22 I need to make a language which compiles into brainfuck 03:12:37 and have a cost on everything in the AST 03:13:07 AST? 03:14:00 well I only want to represent stuff inside a program, there's no need for syntax 03:15:03 Sgeo: It's for this http://rafb.net/p/hcpRe110.txt 03:16:03 ah. cool. 03:16:13 But I'm still not sure what AST is.. 03:16:22 oh right 03:16:27 it stands for abstract syntax tree 03:16:37 it's just how you can represent a program as data 03:16:43 it will look like lisp basically 03:17:22 BFStatement = + | - | < | > | [ | ] | . | , 03:17:35 * Sgeo wonders if this sort of thing can be useful for PSOX somehow 03:17:38 Thank you very much 03:17:40 BFProgram = Nil | Cons BFStatment BFProgram 03:18:19 what I thought I would do is make 03:18:21 Can I use that sort of thing to interpret a bunch of bytes into elements? 03:18:25 Add X Y | Sub X Y ... 03:18:41 and be able to get a cost (length of outputted brainfuck) so I can try to minimize it 03:19:05 well you can parse some bytes into an ast 03:19:09 Where can I find more info, Wikipedia isn't comprehensible to me 03:19:27 faxathisia, and can I use that in a program to find out where data I'm being sent ends? 03:19:47 mm I don't think so 03:19:52 It's probably not helpful in that respect 03:20:13 well what do you mean? 03:20:57 I have a type, say that is 0x01 dbyte 0x01 dbyte2 0x00 then more junk 03:21:05 Can I use it to somehow find where it ends? 03:21:08 For example? 03:21:22 My current idea is to use regex, but it isn't flexible enough 03:21:26 oh I see 03:21:45 well if you have a decent description of the lannguage 03:22:04 It's not a language, it's a stream of bytes to be interpreted into data 03:22:21 http://trac2.assembla.com/psox/browser/trunk/spec/psox-types.txt 03:22:45 Is there a link for more info on AST I can read? 03:24:06 wait 03:24:10 in 03:24:11 psox-types.txt 03:24:16 say I give you this: 03:24:55 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64 03:25:08 0x0 03:25:27 The function that is accepting the data knows the types.. 03:25:34 Do you also have to know that it's an LNUM followed by STRING? 03:25:39 to interpret that data 03:25:44 yes 03:26:10 yeah ok that's cool you can just LEX 03:26:15 LEX? 03:26:18 there isn't need I think for an AST or parser 03:26:48 what language you are writing the thing to interpret these bytes in? 03:27:11 Python 03:28:15 What's LEX? 03:28:35 to lex is just turning some bytes or characters into tokens 03:28:46 I would probably have a procedure which takes and returns 03:29:16 then you can just call that repeatedly until all the data types you required are read from the bytes 03:29:43 so e.g calling it with LNUM and 0x1 0x9 0x1 0x7 0x1 0x2 0x1 0x3 0x0 0x58 0x67 0x64, would return 5465445 and 0x58 0x67 0x64 03:30:06 * Sgeo wants to be able to do things that regex won't allow though 03:30:28 Like a datatype specified as num_of_bytes_following than that number of bytes 03:30:28 yeah not using regex.. 03:30:31 For instance 03:30:35 WHat should I use? 03:30:58 well honestly I would do this with a logic programming language 03:31:12 If you can find a simple logic system to embed in python it would be nice 03:32:20 but it might be too big a hammer for a small task... So just doing it straight forward if/else type checking each character one by one would be easy too 03:32:51 blargh 03:33:27 Something like that was the original plan, actually, but I thought it might be too complicated 03:33:46 I was designing it in my mind using generators and things 03:34:32 It seems quite simple to me 03:34:44 well 03:34:50 using regex like in your example seems a bit confusing 03:35:02 I would probably make a stream object 03:35:37 you can take the head, which is a char, and the tail which might cause a read on stdin 03:35:56 cause if you are dealing with arbitrary length stuff like big nums .. it wouldn't be possible to regex it would it? 03:37:10 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:37:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:37:57 Sgeo: I dont' think what I said makes sense 03:38:03 Sgeo: Did it? :S 03:38:18 I don't see why regex can't be used, but I don't think it should be used.. 03:38:24 Too restrictive.. 03:38:31 yeah 03:38:42 let me see if I understand what you are doing.. 03:38:48 say you have some program B written in brainfuck 03:39:18 it will print out some kind of signal saying I will call a function with a string and 2 numbers as parameters 03:39:40 and PSOX is going to be reading the stdout of B and doing what B asks 03:39:43 is that correct? 03:39:58 Well, the signal simply specifies the function, and the types are part of the function.. 03:40:04 But other than that, yess 03:40:10 ah ok I understand 03:40:17 so how I see it is this: 03:40:34 PSOX has an input stream from B called Sb 03:40:41 and you can read a single character from Sb 03:41:03 since Sb might output text of unbounded length (in the case of a string or big integer) 03:41:10 brb afk 03:41:28 There should be some structure which copes with that 03:41:52 the easiest thing I can imagine is a pair of (char . Stream).. with operations head and tail 03:42:08 head gives the char, and tail gives a new pair (next_char . Stream) by reading one char 03:42:48 so given that it should be simple enough to write something which takes a type (STRING, LNUM etc) and one of those objects.. returning the read object and new pair 03:47:01 hm 03:47:10 * Sgeo isn't sure that he understands 04:28:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:29:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:04:30 hey, everyone. 05:04:35 Did anyone miss me? 05:06:46 * faxathisia moos at RodgerTheGreat 05:07:13 hello, faxathisia 05:07:38 * RodgerTheGreat offers faxathisia oats 05:07:56 :D 05:14:10 what's up? 05:14:25 searching for brainfuck stuff 05:14:35 like proofs that a program is the shortest one or whatever 05:14:35 oats? 05:14:55 I found http://d.hatena.ne.jp/ku-ma-me/20070813/p1 05:15:13 interesting 05:15:31 It's rather frightening how much of that I can understand without any knowledge of Japanese 05:17:25 * Sgeo wonders if it can be proven that there cannot be such a proof 05:18:07 you can probably just enumerate every program and find the first one that could possibly print something 05:18:16 so you can sometimes do it for a particular string 05:18:33 hm, true 05:28:33 and if you can prove it that way, there may be more complex ways to do it more efficiently 05:35:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:35:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:40:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:51:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:51:55 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:32:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:34:58 grr 06:35:01 I think my idea was stupid 06:36:41 It's not worthwhile to create a set of actions which have an associated brainfuck version... to try and compose in order to make short brainfuck code since the problem just becomes harder [I think] 06:39:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:46:41 -!- faxathisia has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:03:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:18:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:16:38 -!- jix has joined. 09:47:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:47:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 10:25:59 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 10:27:11 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:57:42 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 11:00:19 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:02:32 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 12:38:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:38:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:57:12 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 12:57:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:00:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:00:56 -!- jix has joined. 13:25:39 /join #geordi 13:25:42 whoops 13:52:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:02:02 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:04:21 Hi RedDak 14:21:27 -!- Slereah- has joined. 14:33:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:38:37 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:39:16 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 14:40:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:43:33 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 14:43:52 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:04:17 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:23:28 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:24:36 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:30:07 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 15:37:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:37:31 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:53:07 -!- tokigun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:54:49 -!- tokigun has joined. 16:13:20 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 16:15:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:15:17 Hi oerjan 16:15:21 hi Sgeo 16:16:39 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:17:30 hi ehird` 16:17:30 hi ehird` 16:17:30 hi ehird` 16:17:30 hi ehird` 16:17:31 hi ehird` 16:17:31 hi ehird` 16:17:36 hi ehird` 16:17:38 hi ehird` 16:17:44 Segmentation fault 16:32:51 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:43:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:50:57 -!- SimonRC_ has changed nick to SimonRC. 17:45:21 is trying to get emacs to boot from scratch an esoteric enough thought for this channel? :P 17:45:42 that would be amusing because emacs would actually have a quite nice UI/interface paradigm for an OS 17:46:03 despite its general failing at, uh, editing text 17:51:11 Sounds fun. 17:51:59 But does it have security? 17:55:46 ehird`: the usual phrase is "A great OS but it lacks a decent text editor 17:55:48 " 17:56:14 I'm sure someone's ported vi to emacs. 17:57:26 ihope: they have 17:57:29 viper-mode 18:17:18 ihope: security, i doubt i t 18:17:21 but hey. 18:17:31 SimonRC: well, considering the OS is based on text editing 18:17:32 :) 18:29:08 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:31:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:32:58 hmm 18:33:03 brainfuck compiler question 18:33:37 should i optimize MOVE(+x) MODIFY(...) MOVE(-x) to MODIFY(at=x,...) 18:33:40 seems like it'd be faster 18:34:20 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:34:25 Hi Tritonio 18:34:43 Hello. 18:35:48 anyone? 18:36:11 hello everybody 19:11:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:13:44 Hi sebbu 19:13:48 sebbu2 19:14:13 Hi. 19:15:04 hey, don't point that at me! 19:16:41 oerjan, hm? 19:17:13 that -> 19:29:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:33:19 -!- sekhmet has quit ("omgkernel"). 19:38:09 -!- sekhmet has joined. 19:42:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:42:05 -!- ihope has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:43:33 -!- sekhmet has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:43:33 -!- sebbu2 has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:43:33 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:43:33 -!- ehird` has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:43:42 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:43:44 -!- sekhmet has joined. 19:43:44 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:43:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:43:44 -!- ehird` has joined. 19:54:12 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 20:01:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Connection timed out). 20:05:13 I just realised my BF compiler's architechture is output-language neutral :) 20:05:39 It goes parse BF->compile BF into instructions->convert instructions into $LANG (LANG currently = D, could be easily made C and others) 20:05:43 it optimizes too 20:08:43 s/>//g s/+-//g s/-+//g s/(\]\.*?)\[.*?\]/\1/g 20:09:23 hm that last one doesn't quite work 20:13:30 Thoughts on http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Prevent_XSS_attacks ? 20:14:53 it's not really funny. 20:15:04 Uncyclopedia is not really funny in general. 20:15:11 ED is better. 20:15:17 And often factual! 20:15:18 ehird`, any ideas for improvements? 20:15:20 Well, sort of. 20:15:21 Slereah-: if you like being an idiot with no brain, sure 20:15:32 Sgeo: rewrite it? :| it's just incorrect, not incorrect in a funny way 20:15:48 Oh man, ice burn! 20:16:01 * Sgeo has no clue how to make it incorrect in a funny way 20:16:44 Slereah-: well hey, ED is written by idiots with no brain 20:16:54 it wasn't trying to be an 'ice burn' 20:17:24 Same as Uncyclopedia! 20:18:45 difference: uncyclopedia is funny and isn't populated with people saying 'lulz ice burn ohauhsushshsfhsdkjfhsfhsgsdk' 20:20:23 Really? Then it must have changed quite a bit since the last time I saw it! 20:20:30 The articles were pretty much "Lol random". 20:21:39 While a lot of ED articles, though not useful, have the advantage of being true. 20:21:43 Full of internet lore! 20:23:24 -!- oerjan has quit ("Lorem ipsum est!"). 20:26:15 BF implementation question: it's required to read the input code as bytes, yes? 20:50:04 -!- immibis has joined. 20:51:03 Hi immibis 20:55:11 -!- EgoBot has joined. 20:55:19 -!- GregorR has joined. 20:56:37 -!- immibis_ has joined. 20:57:12 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:57:16 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 21:06:03 * SimonRC goes 21:33:55 -!- boily has joined. 21:36:26 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 21:36:38 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:41:12 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 21:50:56 christel said [Global Notice] Hi all, we're experiencing some routing problems between our US hub and the machine services reside on, I'm about to do some re-routing and will also move services. There will be NO services while we swap things around. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!. Take that, RFC's 1459 and 2812! 21:53:35 forgot to delete that script. oops! 21:54:42 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:55:40 immibis, what are RFC 1459 and 2812? 21:56:14 the ones that define irc 21:56:33 and say that an automated message can never be sent in response to a NOTICE. 21:57:13 i got a global notice with the word Hi in it and the script i made *automatically* responded with a WHOIS, a VERSION, and a NOTICE as well as a message to this channel. 21:57:33 oh and the notice said "you are such a fool". not a good thing to say to an IRCop. 22:00:07 >.> 22:00:25 WHy didn't I get the global notice? 22:00:50 What would happen if I changed my nick to MemoServ? 22:00:56 Or NickServ, etc.? 22:01:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:02:42 * SgeoServ :Erroneous Nickname 22:03:34 [11:05] ->> Error 432 - ImmibisServ :Erroneous Nickname 22:03:41 anything ending with Serv is a service i guess. 22:04:13 Sgeo: You can't. Anything with serv in it is illegal 22:04:26 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ServSgeo. 22:04:59 -!- ServSgeo has changed nick to Servera. 22:05:04 -!- Servera has changed nick to Serve. 22:05:39 * Server :Erroneous Nickname 22:05:46 -!- Serve has changed nick to Sgeo. 22:07:06 -!- oklopol has changed nick to okoServe. 22:07:12 -!- okoServe has changed nick to oklopol. 22:09:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:09:25 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:11:51 immibis: well, that was pretty stupid. 22:12:04 ehird`, hm? 22:12:09 * Sgeo falls asleep 22:12:19 wow 22:12:22 that was broken 22:12:34 ? 22:14:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:31:22 -!- oklokok has joined. 22:33:04 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 22:34:16 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:08:30 new script, anyone who says "What is Hadjin?" (not case-sensitive) is told what Hadjin is, and there is a 20% chance that anyone who speaks will be called a fool. 23:08:42 if you find this annoying as i am sure you will, tell me. 23:10:10 What is Hadjin? 23:10:18 hmm 23:10:21 must be an error in it 23:10:25 What is Hadjin? 23:10:29 [12:10] -- Script Engine Error:13:Type mismatch: 'Rand': Line #10 -- 23:10:35 o 23:10:43 try again 23:10:54 What is Hadjin? 23:10:55 Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game 23:10:59 What is Hadjin? 23:10:59 Sgeo, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game 23:11:03 o 23:11:14 Wut's Hadjin? 23:11:17 Hadjin? 23:11:21 no one is being called a fool 23:11:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("apt tells me i need to reboot soon"). 23:11:45 hmm... 23:11:55 * Sgeo can't find information about Hadjin 23:12:12 "If (condition OR condition) And rnd() > 0.5 Then" is proper VBScript, isn't it? 23:13:32 unfortunately, it's possible 23:13:37 immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/ 23:13:47 Why are you using VBScript :P 23:14:18 test 23:14:20 good 23:14:29 i made it intercept everything i said too. 23:14:30 Whyyyyyyy are you using VBScript >_< 23:14:42 because icechat 5 script is based on vbscript 23:14:53 even though i'm using icechat 7, i find v5 scripting is more versatile. 23:14:58 immibis, Hadjin is an online multiplayer role-playing game. Join #hadjin or see http://hadjin.sourceforge.net/ 23:14:58 what is hadjin? 23:16:42 immibis, you are such a fool! 23:16:50 ok 23:16:52 whoever says every TENTH message gets insulted. 23:16:57 or is it eleventh? 23:16:58 not sure. 23:17:08 o 23:17:08 o 23:17:08 o 23:17:09 o 23:17:09 o 23:17:09 o 23:17:09 oklokok, you are such a fool! 23:17:11 o 23:17:13 o 23:17:15 o 23:17:17 cool 23:17:19 i'm a fool 23:17:31 whoops 23:17:32 o 23:17:47 it includes my own messages. 23:17:52 immibis, you are such a fool! 23:17:52 and messages from any channel. 23:17:55 i know 23:18:03 including bots btw 23:18:22 why are you using icechat then immibis 23:18:32 * ehird` wikipedias 23:18:33 ewww 23:18:41 it has a custom skin and is written in VB 23:18:46 it is? 23:18:47 a custom damn skin that looks fugly as hell 23:18:48 * immibis didn't know 23:18:52 it's usable 23:19:09 so is irc clients that don't add ugly gradients everywhere 23:19:09 ehird`, you are such a fool! 23:19:10 so what as long as it works 23:19:12 immibis: includes bots too?!? how did you make it *not* distinguish between messages sent by bots and human-driven clients?!? 23:19:19 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:19:25 and icons with white pixeled edges 23:22:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:26:00 now parts and quits count. 23:28:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:30:14 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:33:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:33:36 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:44:20 -!- immibis has quit (No route to host). 23:44:45 -!- oklokok has joined. 23:46:24 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:48:26 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 2007-11-11: 00:09:00 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:09:07 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:26:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:27:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:33:09 You have 5 Moderator Points! Use 'em or lose 'em! 00:35:13 4 left 00:35:31 I cast magic missile. 00:35:36 i hardly ever use my mod points or post 00:36:00 mod points? i take it this is not irc 00:46:31 -!- Jontte has joined. 00:49:37 oklokok, ping I said something in #psox 00:49:39 Hi Jontte 00:52:34 hello 01:25:56 Sgeo: ping 01:26:03 pong 01:26:09 Sgeo: ping 01:26:12 pong 01:26:17 Sgeo: ping 01:26:19 pong 01:26:25 Is this some sort of lesson? 01:26:34 in not pinging people all the time? yes. :P 01:37:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone"). 01:55:53 oklokok: slashod 01:55:59 t 02:04:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:05:25 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:18:05 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/IMG_2302.JPG_small.jpg 02:19:35 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/IMG_2328.JPG_small.jpg 02:22:34 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/ladder.jpg 02:25:53 http://abacus.kwzs.be/~bsmntbombdood/slide.jpg 02:25:55 * bsmntbombdood is awesome 05:14:20 -!- calamari has joined. 05:19:05 Hi calamari 05:19:59 hey guys 05:20:35 * Sgeo goes to sleep now.. 05:20:51 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:20:57 hi RodgerTheGreat 05:21:08 hi, calamari. What's up? 05:22:22 not too much 05:23:05 I'm doing some work on a bitmapped-font GUI library 05:23:19 intelligent wordwrap is kindof a bitch to get perfect 05:52:27 -!- immibis has joined. 05:53:26 immibis, you are such a fool! 05:54:00 that script is now deleted. 05:57:56 I wrote an ELF64 loader in JavaScript, am I cool yet? 8-D 05:59:34 why........................................................did you make...................................an ELF64 loader...........in JavaScript? 05:59:45 and what use is it from within javascript anyway? 05:59:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:59:53 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 06:10:56 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:16:43 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:17:13 * pikhq is officially tired as fuck 06:32:17 ok 06:38:09 Just got back from a campus visit. . . 06:38:19 And I've *essentially* not slept since Tuesday. 06:39:20 (well, fine. I've had a grand total of 16 hours of sleep since Tuesday night.) 07:31:56 -!- Figs1 has joined. 07:32:15 -!- Figs1 has changed nick to Figs. 07:33:35 HELLO. 07:33:37 :D 07:33:45 Long time no see... 07:33:56 * Figs prods oklokok 07:36:05 Eh, anyone alive? 07:46:24 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Take my advise. I don't use it anyw). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:34:32 *waves* 08:37:00 who wants 781 mb of pascals triangle 08:37:36 i wonder if would it be illegal to share it on bittorrent :D 08:42:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("kthxbai"). 08:44:03 -!- oklokok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:44:09 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:53:52 hi oklopol 08:58:49 bye bye 08:59:13 -!- jix has joined. 08:59:13 -!- Figs has quit ("Java user signed off"). 11:24:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:34:02 -!- RedDak has joined. 11:34:57 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:40:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:52:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 11:52:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:41:30 soo how does this work? can someone please tell me the time? 14:27:52 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:27:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:30:24 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:33:16 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:33:39 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:38:09 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:39:40 pikhq is being tortured by college administrators! 14:39:50 alert the media 14:44:14 is pascals triangle tc? 14:44:25 tc? 14:45:05 Turing Complete. 14:45:08 someone come up with something witty! the first answer must not be a correct one 14:45:10 damn 14:45:16 ohh 14:45:21 i dont know ;P 14:45:43 there's no propagation really, it can't be, i thinksssss 14:45:48 "No, but your mom is!" 14:45:51 *rimshot* 14:45:54 Well, I tried! 14:57:09 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:08:09 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:08:32 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:09:21 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:39:30 18sec for mandelbrot.b 15:39:30 not bad 15:41:47 http://www.sipuli.net/joonas/mandelbrot.png 15:42:03 thank you, that's very helpful :| 15:42:11 i totally don't now what a mandelbrot set looks like 15:42:17 aww 15:42:22 :P 15:42:32 i am talking about the brainfuck mandelbrot program :P 15:42:40 i have a Brainfuck->D compiler in D 15:42:44 wow 15:42:50 mines in C++ 15:43:13 eww 15:43:16 C++ is the devil 15:43:20 :D 15:43:58 * ehird` wonders if there are any [, followed by + and - sequence, ] that does not eventually terminate with byte cells 15:44:15 can i see your brainfuck program? 15:44:53 ehird`: trivially no 15:45:50 Jontte: mandelbrot.b ain't mine 15:45:58 Jontte: google for it, it's all over the plcae 15:46:00 (the compiler is mine though) 15:46:03 oklopol: 'trivially'? 15:46:06 ok, thanks 15:46:09 well, yeah :| 15:46:15 oklopol: give me a [, (+- sequence), ] that doesn't halt :P 15:46:21 in regexp terms 15:46:31 ...there isn't one 15:46:36 oh 15:46:38 i thought you meant 15:46:40 'tehre is no trivial one' 15:46:41 XD 15:46:50 oh :) 15:47:05 hmm 15:47:06 if you mean a [] loop, it's obvious it always terminates 15:47:13 eh 15:47:37 <> were not brainfuck 15:48:17 i should write a brainfuck interpreter 15:48:21 simple as what :P 15:48:43 or maybe just something that turns it to C 15:51:59 brainfuck interpreter = about 5 lines 15:52:03 brainfuck to C compiler = about 7 15:52:13 hehe 15:52:36 if you add optimization to the mix like i have, and intermediatry compilation stages and shit like i have, for me that brings it to 234 15:55:17 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 15:55:53 why the heck isn't this optimizing 15:56:55 lol 15:57:50 it should be optimizing [+++] and [-+--] and [+] and [-] 15:57:51 but it isn't 15:58:09 brainfuck->C is much simpler than a brainfuck interpreter 15:58:23 well, [-+--] is pretty easy to optimize 15:58:24 it's just a textual substitution 15:58:35 RodgerTheGreat: yeah 15:58:39 RodgerTheGreat: the code is there 15:58:43 RodgerTheGreat: it just isn't... doing anything 15:59:25 I always start with an initial pass of removing redundant +- -+ >< <> [] things 15:59:34 what language is your optimizer coded in? 15:59:37 c 15:59:53 pastebin it and I'll have a look 16:02:54 o 16:02:55 no 16:02:56 it's d 16:03:11 anyway ok but i'll give you some architechture info first 16:03:27 oh you made a new one 16:03:37 Hm. Well, I've been interested in learning D recently 16:03:46 who hasn't :P 16:03:53 Bytes of BF code -> BFIns[] -> (optimize over BFIns[] until we can't do anything any more) -> output language X (currently D) 16:03:59 some friends of mine convinced me it was sufficiently unlike C++ 16:04:11 it is unlike C++ 16:04:17 I know 16:04:22 it's C + high level language of your choice, watered down 16:04:26 it's nice with Tango 16:04:29 phobos not so much 16:04:34 anyway, show me a pastebin with d support :P 16:04:44 hm. 16:05:15 damnit, i just did a mod and now my compiler is segfaulting 16:05:21 I could probably get D added to the nonlogic dump... 16:05:21 (Which is oddly rare in D, you barely ever use pointers.) 16:05:28 nonlogic dump reformats my code 16:05:33 which makes ehird` sad 16:05:57 in what way? 16:06:28 do you mix spaces and tabs or something? 16:06:40 no 16:06:43 but it does SOMETHING to it 16:06:50 added newlines once i think 16:07:56 Hmm. Now it doesn't crash but doesn't do the optimization either. 16:08:00 that sounds quite unusual, but it's much more likely you have odd formatting that is not displayed correctly by your editor. The dump really doesn't do much to reformat text for display. 16:08:20 'much' 16:08:23 what DOES it do? 16:09:23 a pre tag inside a div that contains CSS settings for stuff 16:09:23 Also my code seems to be SLOWER with my optimization... 16:09:27 21s for mandelbrot.b 16:09:45 if you're optimizing for length, it's not surprising you get some speed hits 16:11:05 no 16:11:08 i'm optimizing for speed 16:11:24 the optimization that is failing is [-] to tape[ptr] = 0 instead of while (tape[ptr] != 0) { tape[ptr] -= 1; } 16:11:25 hm 16:11:31 and 16:11:33 tape[ptr] = 0 16:11:38 is NOT appearing in the compiled code 16:11:40 so something kooky is up 16:11:45 http://tripledoubleyou.pastebin.com/f68c7be75 here 16:11:58 oh, holy crap- I didn't realize you were *targeting* D 16:12:02 haha 16:12:03 yeah :D 16:12:10 lol 16:12:15 it could be trivially changed to C. 16:12:55 looool 16:12:57 i figured out my bug 16:13:01 while (tape[ptr] != 0) { 16:13:02 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:13:02 } 16:13:20 haha 16:13:26 interesting 16:13:45 so how is D as a language? ive never tried or even seen it 16:13:52 now testing "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=--]+-[+" 16:13:53 err 16:13:54 wtf 16:14:00 [ [ -- ] + - [ + ] ] 16:14:04 I've heard very good things from people who like C, C# and Java 16:14:05 Jontte: it's cool 16:14:10 Jontte: http://digitalmars.com/d 16:14:21 there's a free-as-in-speech implementation as gdc 16:14:28 dmd though is non-free (the backend. the frontend is open) 16:14:34 I like Java and will concede some benefits to C, so it seems nifty 16:15:01 RodgerTheGreat: D is like Java without the 'You'll be safe with me and my protection!' and 'You must type this out so I can understand it properly' 16:15:35 while (tape[ptr] != 0) { 16:15:35 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:15:35 while (tape[ptr] != 0) { 16:15:35 } 16:15:35 } 16:15:38 I understand you can compile with runtime checking, or optionally take it out. This seems to me like a very good idea 16:15:40 i uh, think that's broken 16:16:53 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:16:54 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:16:54 } 16:16:55 so's that. 16:19:08 ehird`: sorry, of course any [] that has constant=0 will not terminate... 16:19:21 oklopol: doh, you#re right 16:19:29 didn't think that one through 16:19:51 that makes things a LOT harder 16:19:52 :| 16:20:22 hmm... not really, you don't have to optimize an infinite loop... 16:20:30 for the checking# 16:20:32 it makes it really hard 16:21:02 nope, [] should be optimized to [] for constant=0 with your optimizations 16:21:13 [] can be your trivial infinite loop 16:21:18 just hardcode a check for it 16:22:12 yes 16:22:15 but i do optimization in passes 16:22:21 (infinite passes until no_opt_done) 16:22:29 and 16:22:31 [+-] 16:22:35 would be picked up instantly 16:25:14 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:25:14 while (tape[ptr] != 0) { 16:25:14 } 16:25:18 that's not right 16:25:43 that's correct 16:25:54 err, but dubious 16:26:07 tape[ptr] = 0; while (tape[ptr] != 0) {} 16:26:07 is the same as 16:26:07 tape[ptr] = 0; 16:26:49 oh 16:26:56 tape[ptr]=0 was a part of it 16:27:06 ...where did you get that? 16:28:09 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:28:28 what 16:28:37 pikhq: oh hi 16:31:34 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:31:42 -!- jix has joined. 16:41:45 Done compiling, program: 16:41:57 [[--][+]] 16:42:01 One optimization step, program: 16:42:05 [[--][+]] 16:42:09 One optimization step, program: 16:42:13 [[-][]] 16:42:17 One optimization step, program: 16:42:17 [-][] 16:42:17 ^ bizzare 16:43:13 Done compiling, program: 16:43:17 [[--][+]] 16:43:21 One optimization step, program: 16:43:25 [[--][+]] 16:43:29 One optimization step, program: 16:43:33 [[[-][]] 16:43:37 One optimization step, program: 16:43:41 [[[-]] 16:43:45 One optimization step, program: 16:43:45 [[[-] 16:43:45 more bizzare 16:43:45 wow 16:43:45 i'm spamming 16:43:46 sorry :| 16:46:20 Very bizare. 16:46:41 What sort of optimization do you have running here? 16:51:41 crazy optimization 16:51:42 :P 16:51:56 (OK, kate, that's the last straw. I'm setting up gvim on this machine.) 16:52:49 [[--][+]] -> [[-][]] is technically correct, but ...why the fuck does it optimize it like that? 16:53:17 we know the current cell is zero, so [+] can be made into [] 16:53:22 that's kinda weird. 16:53:54 that's not what it does 16:53:55 heh 16:54:19 kay :P 16:54:24 then what? 16:55:40 dunno 16:56:49 And the whole thing could be reduced to [-] with ease. . . 16:57:13 (assuming that at the start of that string, current is zero, it'll get transformed into "") 16:57:19 -!- meme_ has joined. 16:57:24 -!- Guilt has joined. 16:57:52 well any [...] can be removed if you know current is 0 17:00:29 True. 17:06:15 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving"). 17:38:39 bsmntbombdood: No torture involved. Sorry. 17:43:55 pikhq: if you write a stringlib for pebble, i'll write pebble.bfm :P 17:43:59 as it is it would be too painful 17:47:29 ehird, I'd first need to implement arrays. 17:47:35 do so :P 17:47:41 extra points: linked list 17:47:45 calamari's array implementation does not seem to *work*. 17:48:04 In Brainfuck, any sort of complex data structure would need to be done via arrays, I fear. 18:48:05 -how many of these optimizations will improve well-written brainfuck code? 18:48:41 -why would it be possible to replace [--] with [-]? 18:49:39 -!- oklopol has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:49:39 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:49:39 -!- AnMaster has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 18:51:00 I mean, [-]+[--] will not terminate with byte cells. 18:52:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:52:51 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 18:52:51 -!- AnMaster has joined. 18:52:58 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection reset by peer). 18:52:58 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:53:14 -!- AnMaster has quit (SendQ exceeded). 18:54:59 -!- AnMaster has joined. 18:56:35 dbc: 1. a few 2. good point 19:11:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:18:42 "[Friends-of-brainfuck] Most intimate problems can be solved with WonderCum." 19:18:50 The FoB mailing list is quite deserted. 19:19:00 Wild spammers roam free! 19:22:04 friends-of-brainfuck? what the hell is that. 19:22:22 Some mailing list. 19:22:29 fontanel-pervs 19:22:35 But even when I joined, it was already deserted. 19:22:37 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:22:51 fontanellesex 19:25:46 -!- ihope_ has joined. 19:30:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 19:39:36 Yeah. It didn't use to be, seven years ago or so. 19:40:07 Looks like I missed the train by quite a long shot! 19:43:51 7 years :| 19:43:57 was there... life back then :O 19:44:11 Mostly unicellular lifeforms. 19:49:23 hmm, that explains the simpler programming languages 19:50:21 Later, more complex lifeform evolved, like birds. 19:50:31 And that's how we got the logical combinator. 19:51:14 -!- Guilt has joined. 19:55:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:16:29 Why are there so many avian combinators? 20:18:08 Me cracks his knuckles for some concept-proving. 20:18:11 Wow. 20:18:17 I did "Me" instead of "/me" 20:18:25 Me slaps himself in the head. 20:18:29 * GregorR cracks his knuckles for some concept-proving. 20:18:32 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html 20:18:37 Oh yes. That's right. 20:20:13 GregorR, what's that? 20:20:25 It's a partially-implemented MMIX simulator in JavaScript. 20:20:33 "partially" I noticed 20:20:37 What's MMIX? 20:21:01 Knuth's imaginary CPU. 20:21:56 -!- vickyfi has joined. 20:22:02 Hi vickyfi 20:23:35 MMIX eh 20:23:41 who's doing MMIX? :) 20:23:50 MMIX it up, babeeee 20:23:58 GregorR, sweet. does it run mmixware examples? 20:24:14 -!- vickyfi has left (?). 20:24:16 is there any guy here who has recieved a cheque from DEK? 20:24:17 It runs the hello.mms one. 20:24:19 Whoa, GregorR 20:24:21 YOU DID IT? 20:24:28 i want to meet such a guy 20:24:29 :) 20:24:39 I've actually only been trying hello.c compiled by GCC (I like a challenge :P ) 20:24:50 Gregor: what about MMMIX? 20:24:55 jsmmmix 20:24:56 :) 20:25:01 GregorR: You did? You crazy fuck. 20:25:12 and, is there a gcc backend to mmix/ 20:25:18 Guilt: yes, there is 20:25:19 Guilt: Yeah. 20:25:27 GregorR: you make my konqueror go slow 20:25:27 I'm thinkin', C->JS would be amusing X-D 20:25:30 sweet. where is it? 20:25:31 konqui will kill you in the night 20:25:32 ehird`: Hahahah X-D 20:25:36 Guilt: It's part of GCC. 20:25:39 he wants revenge 20:25:42 GregorR, no. 20:25:49 i didn't find it in config/ 20:25:49 Guilt, yes. 20:25:57 Guilt: Then your version is old :P 20:26:00 GregorR: You load fucking ELF files? 20:26:03 GregorR: What the what. 20:26:03 shit 20:26:04 :P 20:26:10 it's already there 20:26:17 :( damn. someone did my idea 20:26:26 ehird`: Yeah, I didn't want to pay for the definition of MMO files, so I load ELF64 files :P 20:27:05 ... 20:27:07 it says Error: unimplemented instruction 20:27:23 GregorR: So... HOw well does it do gcc-world atm? 20:27:32 Guilt: That's because I haven't implemented that instruction yet :P 20:27:34 You should probably implement a simple console in JS, btw. (Use a table.) 20:27:41 then I/O would be simple 20:27:45 ehird`: I did, does it not show in konqueror? 20:28:06 Oh, yeah, doesn't show in konq. 20:28:07 That sucks. 20:28:10 In the konq I see a black box, 20:28:12 with IP .... 20:28:13 OP ... 20:28:15 repeated 3 times 20:28:24 3? >_> 20:28:29 IP 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,8 20:28:30 OP 227 20:28:30 IP 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,12 20:28:30 OP 246 20:28:30 IP 0,0,0,0,0,0,1,16 20:28:30 OP 245 20:28:34 GregorR, put some compatibility jizz in. 20:28:37 ::) 20:29:00 ehird`: Ohyeah, I see it. Hm, konq seems to barf out after three instructions :( 20:29:07 ehird`: FFox does it really well, if you have it installed try that. 20:29:10 GregorR: Ok, I'll install firefox :P 20:29:13 (The gtk! It burns! 20:29:26 (... the form controls! They burn!) 20:29:32 GregorR, does it throw an exception? 20:29:34 I'll have to look at konq though, I tried not to do anything FF-specific :P 20:29:46 Guilt: What, when it fails to implement an operator? 20:29:54 Why doesn't it work in Konq.. oh you're looking into that 20:29:58 Guilt: Erm, when it fails to run an operator because it hasn't implemented it that is. 20:30:02 Guilt: No, it just dies. 20:30:19 Does konqueror have a JS error console? 20:30:33 no but there is a seperate JS console 20:30:43 GregorR, just put alerts and try debugging 20:30:48 GregorR: Now instructions are streeeeeaming 20:30:55 Error! Unimplemented instruction 20:30:55 :) 20:31:11 ehird`: ^^ 20:31:28 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/64bitint.js What the fuck. 20:31:36 It's 64-bit ints. 20:31:40 Yeah./ 20:31:42 You are crazy. 20:31:53 What, I needed 64-bit ints in 8-bit bins 8-O 20:32:03 Crazy idea: 20:32:07 Add some sort of javascript interface. 20:32:12 I want to write an AJAX app in MMIX. 20:32:18 in C. 20:32:27 ehird`, if it's AJAX 20:32:34 then you can do all your MMIX on the server 20:32:44 which really isn't a JS implementation then 20:32:48 exactly 20:32:52 I want to do my client side stuff in C 20:32:55 compiled to MMIX 20:32:57 running on jsmmix 20:33:01 with a JS interface 20:33:03 to write an AJAX app 20:33:03 Heh 20:33:12 I just want vim running in JS :P 20:33:21 "just" ;) 20:33:28 Wow. 20:33:29 :P 20:33:37 OK, maybe not ;) 20:33:49 GregorR: I'm considering writing an editor in D because kate wouldn't indent D properly, incidentally :P 20:34:03 ehird`: Awesome, make sure you scream about it on #d 20:34:04 i want the linux kernel with the 16x PCI express and the SIMD unrolled code running in JS 20:34:05 :D 20:34:17 isn't that leet, bitches? :D 20:34:31 I wonder if there's a MMIX Linux port >_> 20:34:39 GregorR: I have screamed about it on #d actually :p 20:34:45 GregorR, mmixware by knuth 20:34:52 Guilt: That's not Linux, that's mmixware. 20:34:58 it runs on Linux. :) 20:35:01 it was more of the 'god damnit, why aren't there any decent gui toolkits' scream though. 20:35:08 I mean a port of the Linux kernel TO mmix :P 20:35:12 and what do you mean by MMIX linux port? 20:35:13 what? 20:35:17 Linux kernel? :o 20:35:25 Linux running /on/ MMIX :P 20:35:30 there is no hardware machine to run it. just the usual stuff.. 20:35:34 GregorR, write one. 20:35:36 lol 20:35:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:35:52 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:35:52 Knuth doesn't have anything regarding peripheral specification, does it? 20:36:04 sorry s/Knuth/MMIX 20:36:08 Not to my knowledge. 20:36:11 does it talk about how to handle busses? :) 20:36:19 Pff, you don't need peripherals to run a kernel >_> 20:36:27 but you need to use it 20:36:32 it's not going to run all by itself 20:37:29 Sure it is - I didn't say it was going to be exciting to look at :P] 20:37:50 :P 20:40:11 If you were a chipmaker, would you design MMIX and gift it to DEK? 20:44:37 If I was a chipmaker, they'd be potato. 20:47:37 So, GregorR, what C programs compiled can your emulator run? 20:47:42 Does this work: 20:47:47 int main(void) { return 42; } 20:48:02 What about this: int main(void) { write(0, "x"); } 20:48:17 I actually haven't tested it with anything short of int main() { write(1, "Hello, world!", 14); } 20:48:20 Which is what's running there. 20:48:32 That's my first goal. 20:49:45 I just wanted to post something before my brain melted :P 20:50:06 I am now going to write the most minimal compiler 'evah' 20:50:16 cat? 20:50:20 hah 20:50:20 no 20:51:09 It will have functions, untyped variables, types of int, string and array, and a few statements (if, else, while, for, return) 20:51:24 So, pretty esoteric to write anything REAL in it. :P 20:51:48 Damnit, I can't call it "Tiny Compilable Language": tcl. 20:52:49 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving"). 20:53:16 You do of course realize that a BF->C compiler will be more minimal? 20:55:34 Of course. 21:03:33 hey 21:03:39 i have an idea for a lang 21:05:55 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 21:08:41 what 21:31:06 -!- Guilt has joined. 21:37:43 Shoot, Konqueror doesn't support Array.concat 8-X 21:39:28 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving"). 21:39:49 Oh, never mind, I'm doing it wrong X-P 21:39:55 Wow, konq JS == sloooooooooow 21:43:21 OK, http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html now works on Konqueror 21:43:31 I was doing: 21:43:37 Array.concat(a, b, c) 21:43:39 Instead of: 21:43:43 a.concat(b, c) 21:43:52 I don't know why the first syntax worked at all :P 21:44:28 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:46:41 Incidentally, I can make it run much faster, but it tends to hang the browser a bit :P 21:54:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:56:16 -!- Guilt has joined. 21:56:29 Hi Guilt 21:57:12 hi Sgeo :) 21:59:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:00:26 Oh, I didn't mention, it does run int main() { return 0; } now 22:04:23 Hi pikhq 22:11:31 -!- meme_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 22:18:39 'Lo, Sgeo. 22:19:00 GregorR: What's this? Actual *work* on C2BF? 22:19:11 . . . No. 22:19:21 Heh, no :P 22:19:27 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html 22:20:04 That is spiffy. 22:20:56 * pikhq suspects a MMIX port of Linux would be possible; IIRC, GCC targets MMIX already 22:22:30 GCC does target MMIX already, that's why I'm using it ;) 22:22:57 ;) 22:23:12 Oh, God. . . 22:23:21 Plof->C->MMIX. 22:23:38 Hahahah 22:23:41 Not quite the plan :P 22:24:17 Hmm. Plof->JS runs Plof->C->MMIX? :p 22:24:41 YES 22:24:42 :P 22:24:50 * ihope_ reads up on Javascript 22:28:22 Hmm. ChatZilla has an /eval command for evaluating JavaScript expressions... 22:28:41 who doesn't 22:29:38 ChatZilla was, in fact, written in JavaScript. 22:30:14 Javascript and XUL. Get it right, Gregor. 22:30:31 Indeed. 22:30:38 * ihope_ sets x to 3 22:30:53 Well, that didn't seem to do much. 22:31:06 * pikhq declares that 0/0=1 22:31:23 i=3 will surely do something more. 22:31:28 * pikhq goes on to prove that black is white, and white black. 22:31:49 Ooh, there's a thing called "document". 22:31:52 * ihope_ sets it equal to 3 22:32:06 Now it's back to normal. Bah. 22:36:01 Cool. This tutorial is recommending people to use JavaScript to prevent people from viewing content which has been sent to their browser. 22:36:10 LMAO 22:37:47 ihope_, oO 22:38:01 Ok, there's a college I want to apply to 22:38:13 But I didn't know if the online form would actually send an email or something 22:38:19 So I went to the URL that the form goes to 22:38:25 "The following information has been submitted to our office:" 22:38:31 Then all the fields, blank 22:38:31 >.> 22:38:40 "An admissions representative will be contacting you shortly." 22:40:01 Sgeo, join me and cherez next year. 22:40:09 ? 22:40:39 cherez is at UMR, and I will be there next year. 22:40:43 -!- AnMaster has quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 22:40:49 (Pikhq is following me to college, and has become quite an evangelist.) 22:40:49 * pikhq just returned from a campus visit. . . 22:41:00 UMR? 22:41:02 (it's a good college. What can I say?) 22:41:07 * Sgeo needs to stay close to home :/ 22:41:33 University of Missouri - Rolla. (soon to be Missouri University of Science & Technology) 22:42:40 Have to stay close to home? Why? 22:43:05 My dad wants me to 22:44:07 And your dad can do *jack shit* about it. . . 22:44:29 :-P 22:44:45 that depends heavily upon who's paying for tuition 22:45:24 Ah. 22:45:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:45:57 (in my case, it's 'whichever generous souls donate', rather than 'parents'. . .) 22:46:10 My dad's probably paying.. 22:46:44 -!- AnMaster has joined. 22:46:51 Hi AnMaster 22:47:13 hmh 22:50:14 pikhq: i'll donate $1 22:50:26 (Which in real money is about £0.00000000001 these days) 22:52:22 Could you just donate a pound? That ought to pay for my entire college education. :p 22:52:39 real money :D 22:52:45 Do you want a pound of feathers or a pound of lead? 22:53:06 ihope_: A Great British Pound, actually. 22:53:24 pikhq: Aww, ok. 22:53:29 I'll make sure they're from Great British chickens. 22:53:31 (That's $6465456498498498498498498494894984. 22:53:42 (although I'll take either a pound of feathers or lead if it's signed by the Queen of England, so that it's legal tender) 22:54:15 pikhq: note to self, ask queen for autograph next time i se her 22:54:17 *see 22:54:21 LMAO 22:54:41 Ask for the text "By order of the Queen of England, this is legal tender for all debts." ;p 22:54:56 XD 22:54:58 I think it'd be fun to have a Queen. 22:56:10 ihope_: Bah, no, it's quite annoying to have 'power' (yeah right) descended by family. 22:56:12 And oh so backwards. 22:56:18 * ehird` wonders what tokens I need 22:56:34 Quite annoying to be a figurehead because one of your parents was one? 22:56:46 ihope_: Quite annoying to have a figurehead because their parents were. 22:56:56 Speaking from the perspective of a citizen. 22:57:05 * ihope_ nods 22:57:21 Well, why can't we elect a Queen, then? 22:57:37 Because then Queen is an inappropriate title. 22:57:39 'cause then it wouldn't be a queen/king 22:57:43 pikhq, marry me 22:57:44 I mean 22:57:46 that's what I sid 22:57:48 *said 22:58:11 Queen Except for the Fact that They were Elected? 22:58:30 'elected useless figurehead' 22:58:34 Yeah! 22:58:59 pikhq: GregorR: you have a chance to force your plof syntax on ltc right now, limited time offer :P 22:59:13 ltc? 23:00:42 Langugae that is Tiny and Compilable 23:00:55 (Tiny Compilable Language's acronym was taken...) 23:00:56 ;) 23:01:36 Ah. 23:01:49 Just an experiment of mine :P 23:01:49 I guess Tcl may be good. 23:02:06 The idea is: tiny tiny language->lex->parse->compile to Instruction class of some sort->output C 23:02:09 Wait, ltc's syntax is forceable? 23:02:26 With the newfound language-writing skills I will go on to write DZing :P 23:02:29 ihope_: huh? 23:02:41 I'm just saying that pikhq and GregorR can suggest Plof syntax for me to put in :P 23:02:52 Make it look like this: IncAll x = Map (L \f (Inc f)) x 23:03:05 no, that's a lot of work :P 23:03:29 (= (IncAll x) (Map (L \f (Inc f)) x))? :-P 23:04:10 No! :P 23:04:15 I want something... I dunno. 23:04:16 strange ;P 23:04:50 var IncAll = (x){map((f){f++})}; 23:05:08 Erm. 23:05:26 Sure. 23:05:48 (x){y} is kinda bad 23:05:50 var IncAll = (x as Collection){ x.map((f){ f++ }) }; 23:05:52 hard to parse manually :P 23:05:54 and 23:05:56 no objects 23:05:59 for now 23:06:03 and variables are typeless 23:06:03 :P 23:06:33 var add = {x,y|x+y} <-- I could probably do that. Is that good enough? :P 23:06:48 Maybe instead of (L \f (Inc f)) I should use (\f -> Inc f). :-P 23:07:24 var incAll = {x,something}? 23:07:36 ihope_: what about multiple arguments 23:07:51 Either currying or multiple arguments. 23:09:22 I want multiple arguments 23:09:34 currying... hard when using C :P 23:09:44 Then multiple arguments. 23:10:19 So how would I do that with your syntax? 23:10:59 Er, oops. 23:11:06 var incAll = {x|something} 23:11:59 var incAll = {x | x.map({f | f+1})} 23:12:00 I guess. 23:12:04 err 23:12:06 var incAll = {x | x.map({f | f+1})}; 23:12:32 * pikhq gets bored, tries to curry in Plof 23:12:39 Cancer of the semicolon. :) 23:13:04 Though foo.bar(quux) has never made all that much sense to me, I guess Redivider does have the same sort of thing with bar(quux)[foo]. 23:13:12 pikhq: var curry = (f,x){(y){f(x,y)}} 23:13:26 ihope_: Actually, I forgot, no objects 23:13:37 var incAll = {x | map(x, {f | f+1})}; 23:13:40 ehird`: I'm not expecting it to take forever. ;) 23:13:47 So.. 23:13:49 Let's see. 23:13:53 What tokens do I need... 23:14:27 VAR, ID, EQUALS, LT, GT, PLUS, MINUS, DIVIDE, TIMES, LPAREN, RPAREN, LBRACE, RBRACE, SEMICOLON, 23:14:31 Do you have stuff like f(x): {x = x+1}? 23:14:41 IF, ELSE, ELSEIF, WHILE, FOREACH 23:14:43 and that's it 23:14:48 ihope_: nope, just variable bindings for now 23:15:28 Do you have any way at all for a function to return multiple things, apart from global variables? 23:15:54 aha! of course, I need more: 23:16:03 LBRACKET, RBRACKET, RETURN 23:16:06 err 23:16:07 and COMMA 23:16:09 and that's it!! 23:16:13 oh 23:16:16 and LTEQ, GTEQ 23:17:53 So, that's 22 tokens in all. 23:17:57 Wait, no 23:17:58 23 23:17:59 Not bad. 23:19:41 Hmm. 23:19:46 How many tokens does plof have? *checks* 23:19:59 ... a few more 23:20:51 OK, in actual fact I have 26 23:21:25 VAR, ID, LPAREN, RPAREN, LBRACE, RBRACE, LBRACKET, RBRACKET, RETURN, COMMA, IF, ELSE, ELSEIF, WHILE, FOREACH, EQ, LT, GT, LTEQ, GTEQ, PLUS, MINUS, TIMES, DIVIDE, MODULO, STRING, NUMBER 23:23:18 Oh! and SET of course 23:26:21 -!- Guilt has quit ("Leaving"). 23:32:05 Hmm. 23:32:09 I don't like | as an argument seperator 23:32:35 Separating argument from result? 23:32:40 no 23:32:42 like {x|x} 23:32:42 is id 23:32:46 {x,y|x+y} is + 23:33:22 * ihope_ nods 23:33:32 but | there is ugly 23:33:35 so what should it be? :P 23:34:00 =? 23:34:15 = is taken for ASSIGN 23:35:57 .? 23:36:07 Space? :-P 23:36:35 ¿? 23:36:38 loljk 23:36:46 space wouldn't work well :P 23:36:53 {x,y,z OHNOES} 23:36:57 also 23:36:59 it'd mean EVERY space would be parsed 23:37:00 ¸˙? 23:37:01 :P 23:37:06 {x . x} 23:37:11 {x, y, z . x + y + z} 23:37:11 ASCII EOF, ASCII DEL... 23:37:11 » 23:37:13 « 23:37:14 . is kinda not noticable 23:37:22 Sgeo: something i can actually type :p 23:37:28 * Sgeo can type those =P 23:37:32 {x -> x} 23:37:39 Compose > > 23:37:39 {x, y -> x + y} 23:37:41 » 23:37:57 var incAll = {x -> map(x, {f -> f+1})}; 23:37:59 ASCII TAB is very noticeable in some cases :-P 23:38:24 ihope_: Hmm.. People who use emacs defaults would get syntax errors randomly. 23:38:26 This is very appealing to me... 23:39:06 :-) 23:40:26 haha, assinging oo to infinity 23:40:28 cute 23:46:45 GregorR: HAY I FOUND BUG IN YOUR LEXER. 23:47:14 I'm sure there are plenty 23:47:15 im in ur lexer, etc. etc.? 23:56:07 GregorR: If a string contains a newline you don't line++ 23:56:17 Haha, my lexer will be weiiiird 23:56:24 Since as soon as it finds a token it gives up, 23:56:37 "varx={x->returnx}" is valid 23:56:53 it's, of course, "var x = {x -> return x}" 2007-11-12: 00:01:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:01:32 Hmm 00:01:33 I fixed that. 00:07:47 my feets 00:07:50 they have pain 00:09:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:13:31 Te duelen los pies. 00:13:40 You hurt the feet. 00:15:41 -!- meowfish has joined. 00:17:08 Hi meowfish 00:17:56 Hello 00:18:26 Ello. 00:30:53 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:32:40 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 00:40:16 ircatwork.com has to be the lamest dmoain ever 00:50:52 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone"). 00:51:06 meowfish 00:51:10 is that like twofish? 00:59:54 Is it IRC at work or IR cat work? 01:00:12 (One fish, two fish, meowfish, moo fish?) 01:00:32 IRCAT work. 01:00:42 -!- ihope__ has joined. 01:00:51 -!- ihope__ has quit (Client Quit). 01:00:58 What's an IRCAT, I wonder... 01:01:12 Is it an infrared cable-Atlantic trans? 01:01:30 Which, I suppose, is a weird way of saying "infrared trans-Atlantic cable"? 01:01:48 Infrared Red Cable Automatically Terminated 01:02:00 Ah. 01:02:07 Even less sense. :) 01:03:25 It's clearly an Irradiated Residue Connector/Auxiliary Transmitter. 01:06:30 It functions as an auxiliary transmitter when placed in proximity to an irradiated residue receiver. 01:34:26 IRCAT, CueCat's succesor 01:48:32 df -h 01:48:34 oops 02:05:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 02:15:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:35:25 Who would be kind enough to join me in proving that 1+1=3? 02:40:34 -!- ihope__ has joined. 02:41:12 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:43:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:16:14 -!- immilinux has joined. 03:16:43 pikhq: easy to d 03:17:27 -!- ihope__ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 03:18:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:20:00 First, we assume e*e=e^3. :p 03:31:19 excuse me? 03:31:26 e*e*e=e^3 03:31:46 immilinux: If e*e=e^3, 1+1 must =3. ;p 03:33:22 oh and in case nobody worked it out, i am immibis, using linux. 03:33:34 not 1+1 03:34:57 if = = == then !(e&(~1)) 03:35:10 1+1 is irrelevant to exponents. 03:35:15 -!- immilinux has quit ("Lost terminal"). 03:35:36 -!- immilinux has joined. 03:35:58 * immilinux hit alt-f4 as he was playing around with hotkeys in irssi. D'oh! 03:36:16 oh and does anyone know of a way to make an Xboo GBA multiboot cable out of paperclips? 03:43:25 I'm certain it's possible 03:44:06 e*e=e^3 03:44:13 ln(e*e)=ln(e^3) 03:44:15 1+1=3 03:44:17 QED. 03:44:17 :p 03:45:19 e*e = e^3? wtf? 03:45:31 RodgerTheGreat: It obviously doesn't. 03:45:49 I was making the point that if you assume e*e=e^3, then 1+1=3. 03:45:54 reductio ad absurdum? 03:46:33 No, I got started on this train of thought by asking for proofs that 1+1=3. :p 03:46:47 ah 03:47:27 "Reductio ad absurdum, which Euclid loved so much, is one of a mathematician's finest weapons. It is a far finer gambit than any chess gambit: a chess player may offer the sacrifice of a pawn or even a piece, but a mathematician offers the game." 03:50:00 Of course, if you assume 1+1=3, then 1+1=3. :p 04:02:56 pikhq: it certainly is if 1 == 1.5. 04:13:06 but how do i make a gba Xboo multiboot cable out of paperclips? 04:13:32 i also have some wires, resistors and capacitors of various sizes, and a few other bits and pieces if they're needed. 04:16:50 my main problem is how to keep the paperclips/wires/whatever stuck to the pins. 04:17:10 and i DO NOT have a gba multiplayer cable. 04:32:56 hello? 04:35:20 Got solder? 04:44:22 no 04:44:34 just paperclips, wires, and some other bits and pieces. 04:47:18 would tape work? 04:53:06 "immilinux" "hit's alt-f4" and closes? 04:53:47 hits 04:54:00 yes 04:55:10 well i guess some lesser window managers immitate windows keybindings 04:55:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:01:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 05:04:32 gnome is a lesser window manager 05:05:10 Not-ratpoison is a lesser window manager. 05:05:37 i haven't used ratpoison 05:05:46 anyway, i'm completely happy with my current one 05:13:11 which is? 05:13:36 bsmntbombdood: kde does the same. 05:14:51 and its the most active - and therefore most likely one of the most popular - window managers/desktop environments around. 05:16:35 also does anyone know how to make cpuspeed slow down my cpu when the computer gets really hot? 05:17:58 -!- meowfish has quit ("CGI:IRC (Session timeout)"). 05:18:45 * immilinux turns down the cpu to 1.06 ghz and the temperature drops 20 degrees almost instantly. 05:29:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:01:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:01:59 immilinux: ion3 06:03:12 and why is ircbrowse down 06:05:13 what? 06:05:48 ircbrowse.com 06:06:23 what is ion3? 06:06:58 a window manager 06:09:22 the window manager i use 06:10:01 and you mention it here in response to what? 06:11:05 uuuuh 06:11:20 anyway, i'm completely happy with my current [window manager] one 06:11:23 which is? 06:27:45 ok 06:28:31 i ran several commands in the interval between when i said that and when you responded, and it scrolled off the top of the terminal emulator. 06:29:07 and i didn't work out how to scroll the message list until just after i wrote the previous message 06:32:08 -!- immibis has joined. 06:32:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:32:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:23:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 07:32:22 -!- oklofok has joined. 07:32:39 mwahahaha 07:32:55 TODE has been bloatified! 07:32:56 http://vjn.fi/mb/?p=TODEx 07:33:38 i'm not sure this can be implemented without an AI, but... it's pretty great anyway 07:37:46 typed in apt-get install intercal for fun, there was one :O 07:38:11 oh, also unlambda 07:38:57 and on fedora? 07:42:34 on fedora? 07:42:59 hmm, how do i list downloaded packages? 07:44:48 immibis: what happened to toBogE? i miss it 07:46:26 hmm, class is over, cya -> 07:46:44 -!- oklofok has quit ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)"). 07:52:12 MMIX's register pushing and popping is SO EFFING COMPLICATED 07:53:15 Try 1: Failure. Try 2: Failure. Try 3: Failure. WTF, am I incapable of reading pseudocode? 07:57:02 oklofok: remind me tomorrow 07:57:04 oops he left 07:57:38 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you can't laugh at yourself, mak). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:19:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 08:19:55 -!- immilinux has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:57:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:58:19 hello 11:36:32 Hello. 13:02:06 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:02:24 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:03:12 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:15:56 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:16:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:28:44 -!- faxathisia has joined. 13:28:54 I found a subleq self interpreter 13:28:56 http://eigenratios.blogspot.com/2006_08_31_archive.html 13:29:31 oops it even on esolang wiki as well 13:34:03 hi 13:34:06 hello 13:36:04 did you read this eigenratios site? 13:36:24 It's amusing :"p 13:43:47 indeed it is 13:55:02 hm 13:55:06 what the world needs 13:55:12 is a monospace font good for reading text 13:55:15 like on irc, you need a monospaced font 13:55:21 but a terminal/code one is just yuck 13:55:26 I quite like Luxi Mono 13:55:35 for editing code though 13:55:40 hmm yes luxi mono is quite non-monospaced like while still being monospaced 13:56:36 I guess what I'm saying is that most monospaced fonts are just typewriter-esque 13:56:47 and I want a monospaced font for *reading text* 14:04:56 -!- faxathisia has quit. 14:22:22 -!- Slereah- has joined. 14:23:14 http://www.radicaleye.com/lifepage/patterns/unitcell/ucdesc.html recursive life 14:23:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 14:27:34 hmm 14:27:58 what is the simplest language that 1. is not TC 2. can be self-interpreted (eval doesn't count) 14:28:04 does one even exist? i think so 14:33:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:35:39 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:40:33 -!- jix has joined. 15:24:52 -!- faxathisia has joined. 15:43:13 sick how things are named the same 15:43:17 like PsiLisp :/ 15:43:43 It's meant to be a reversible language but it's also some database thing\ 15:44:33 ehird`, what is TC? 15:44:41 Turing Complete. 15:44:46 ah 15:44:56 thought it was some language that was called TC 15:46:15 ehird`, well while malbolge is turing complete, why not write a malbolge interpreter in malbolge? 15:47:15 * faxathisia wonders if there is any sub-turing language capable of 'interesting' calculation within which a self interpreter can be written 15:47:49 heh 16:08:19 faxathisia: Yes, there is. 16:08:41 faxathisia: Mind you, I have no proof or evidence, but I'm confident that there is ;) 16:12:42 ehird`: Re monospace: OS? 16:12:45 -!- faxathisia_ has joined. 16:13:34 ehird`: Simplest language that is not TC and can be self-interpreted: The operation 'x' outputs the character 'x' 16:14:11 No wait, better: 16:14:23 The operation 'x' is cat. 16:14:48 So stupidlang x.sl < x.sl > x2.sl ; cmp x.sl x2.sl ; $? == 0 16:15:06 damn.. ircbrowse is down 16:15:36 -!- faxathisia has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:16:52 -!- faxathisia_ has changed nick to faxathisia. 16:24:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:25:58 GregorR, is that a language? 16:26:11 well, broad definition then IMO ;) 16:27:02 First you'll need to make a definition for "language" 16:31:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:31:35 -!- jix has joined. 16:32:28 GregorR: OK, let's say that doesn't count :P 16:33:01 [14:27] what is the simplest language that 1. is not TC 2. can be self-interpreted (eval doesn't count) 16:33:01 [14:28] does one even exist? i think so 16:33:10 without counting cat and similar. 16:33:16 "similar" 16:36:51 ehird` is so vague 16:38:45 Maybe he refered to the "The operation 'x' outputs the character 'x'" 16:42:15 The operation "RUN" reads a single 'x' outputs the character 'x' 16:42:32 emm.. it does have to be called 'x' doesn't it 16:43:25 I seem to have a proclivity for writing scripts that cause Firefox to freeze. 16:47:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:48:58 at any rate GregorR proved it's possible 16:49:13 but is there a more interesting or capable language with the property? 16:49:41 bsmntbombdood: sheesh 16:49:45 :P 16:58:33 firefox freezes when you're out of disk space 17:04:51 well, as far as i understand the impossibility of interpreting many non-turing complete languages in themselves follows from what happens when you translate the proof of the halting problem to them 17:07:09 'many' or all 17:10:19 basically if the programs in the language always halt, and there is an interpreter which can run any program (still halting), and you have enough ways of composing programs to do the diagonalization the proof needs, then you end up with a contradiction 17:10:36 always halt != non-tc 17:10:40 so there would be several ways out 17:10:59 Um, always halt == non-TC 17:11:00 subset-of(non-tc, always halt) 17:11:01 it could have non-halting programs without being tc 17:11:08 Oh 17:11:12 there are non-TC languages with programs that do not halt 17:11:30 ehird`: I thought you were being colloquial with your "!=" :P 17:11:35 ehird`: 0x29A on the wiki is one, i proved 17:11:36 "composing programs to do the diagonalization the proof needs" - Which proof? 17:12:00 and Subtle Cough too, sort of 17:12:00 I never saw a diagonalization argument in anything relating to halting 17:12:22 subtle cough is, rather useless ;P 17:12:38 faxathisia: the proof of the halting problem is a diagonalization proof, indeed 17:12:42 I've always wondered if there's a variation on subtle cough with one more func (That isn't the iota combinator ;)) that is TC 17:13:08 hmm, oerjan is 0x29a not TC? 17:13:11 there's a bf->it translation 17:13:13 ehird`: well I isn't that function, i recall :) 17:13:21 ehird`: oh, i meant the functional subset 17:13:26 ah 17:13:37 oerjan: Well, i is turing complete by itself 17:13:40 (Iota, not identity) 17:13:47 i meant identity 17:14:09 it's easy to add to Subtle Cough but gives nothing else, iirc 17:14:44 of coursen ot 17:14:47 *ci is useless 17:14:51 and *iX is also useless 17:15:35 back to the ways out: (2) a language could be too simple to allow composition of programs for diagonalization 17:16:14 hm, i guess that's about it 17:16:47 i suppose GregorR's example is (2) 17:17:57 what about regular expression languages? 17:18:48 without perly extensions, they would probably be too simple too, by the chomsky hierarchy 17:19:27 you would try to match against "a+b:aaaaaaaaab" or something? 17:19:42 oh wait 17:19:59 it probably won't have an interpreter 17:20:30 maybe there are some new operators to add which make it possible 17:20:36 although I have no idea what.. 17:21:09 regexps can't match regexps 17:21:16 case in point: balanced things of any sort. 17:21:18 QED 17:21:28 and if you can't PARSE regexps, you can't RUN them 17:27:45 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:36:23 -!- ehird` has quit (Excess Flood). 17:36:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:11:43 but repeated application of regexps could interpret regexps 18:12:22 do you have any example of it? 18:14:54 no but repeated string serach replacement is turing complete 18:15:08 so repeated regexp application is a superset of that and thus turing complete too 18:22:39 my regexp language supports this 18:23:01 syntax: either a\nb\nc or anything (including a\nb) 18:23:04 if the first, 18:23:11 then run the regexp a with replacement b on c 18:23:14 and evaluate that as code 18:23:29 if the latter, well i don't know, but the first spec said if last-char == "." output the rest 18:23:30 otherwise error 18:23:44 I conjecture that it is turing complete. 18:23:58 Certainly, a BCT conversion would be tivial 18:24:08 *trivial 18:32:39 :) 18:32:58 first person to write BCT->thatlang converter wins a prize of ... something 18:33:02 probably useless ePoints 18:34:51 *wins internets 18:55:53 -!- cpressey has joined. 19:12:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:31:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:09:17 -!- clog has joined. 20:09:17 -!- clog has joined. 20:20:02 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:29:49 the game of life unit cell is that big... i thought it was like 10x10 :D 20:36:09 oklopol: gregorr said cat a while back 20:36:11 not funny 20:36:11 :| 20:36:37 i read that, yeah, wasn't supposed to be funny though 20:54:35 -!- faxathisia has quit. 20:55:49 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:03:19 -!- oerjan has quit ("Gooed knight"). 21:22:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 21:23:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:53:16 >>>>++++++++++>>+>+>+[[->[-]++++++[<++++++++>-]>>>>]<<<<<[<[>+>+<<-]>.<<<< 21:53:16 <]>.>>+[-[<<<<<[+<<<<<]>>>>>>>[[-]>[<<+>+>-]<[>+<-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+ 21:53:16 <-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>>>>+>+<<<<<<-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]>[<+>-]+>>>>>]<<<< 21:53:16 <[<<<<<]>>[>>>>>]++[-<<<<<]>>>>>>-]+>>>>>]<[>++<-]<<<<[<[>+<-]<<<<]>>>>>>>] 21:53:37 (factorials) 21:55:29 nice 21:55:44 now make it 3 lines so I can include "(factorials)" at the end of my sig ;) 22:12:42 Feel free :P 22:13:45 3 72-char lines 22:16:42 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:19:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:24:31 -!- cpressey has joined. 22:29:49 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:33:03 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:50:21 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:53:05 mega-someone-ping 22:53:57 wut 23:09:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:17:13 -!- Kahdloc has joined. 23:17:44 say hello 23:18:54 -!- Kahdloc has left (?). 23:19:29 hello bsmntbombdood. 23:19:34 meta ping #2 23:19:36 what 23:19:37 *mega 23:19:43 you pong'd, bsmntbombdood. 23:25:18 .... 23:28:18 jihad 4ever!! 23:30:45 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 23:38:47 i got bored so i tried to write a ridiculously minimal yet usable chat protocol 23:38:57 the spec is 117 lines in total, including whitespace etc 23:39:03 and most of it is basically trivial 23:39:09 :D 23:39:26 so? 23:39:36 simplified-irc is trivial... 23:40:12 sure, sure, but it's not anything like irc 23:40:28 and barring a few things is pretty much usable 23:40:35 (as a replcaement to irc) 23:40:40 so? 23:40:44 i dunno 23:40:49 no me importa 23:41:28 aaaw assballs i've got homework 23:46:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 2007-11-13: 00:34:13 -!- frontiersman has joined. 00:59:59 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone"). 02:05:10 -!- EgoBot has joined. 02:05:19 -!- GregorR has joined. 02:11:16 -!- cpressey has joined. 02:22:45 -!- calamari has joined. 02:55:31 calamari! 02:55:35 long time no see 02:55:38 hi Chris 02:55:46 definitely 02:55:56 how's your family? 02:56:55 pretty good. we're in chicago now! 02:57:16 how's yours? 02:57:21 still in arizona? 02:57:29 yep 02:57:53 doing fine 02:58:53 * pikhq was not aware that calamari had a family. . . XD 02:59:15 pikhq: 2 kids under 2 :) 02:59:41 hi calamari 02:59:46 long no see time 02:59:51 Ah. 02:59:58 calamari made babies?!?! 03:01:39 No, he stole them from "Do Not Put The Baby". 03:03:49 -!- faxathisia has joined. 03:04:23 ;) 03:05:22 do you know who the mother is? 03:05:48 somebody mailed me about writing a compiler for bitchanger.. I felt pretty bad because I didn't check my yahoo mail for like 2 months and didn't know about it 03:06:13 is that "bit changer" or "bitch anger"? 03:06:21 you decide ;) 03:06:43 bsmntbombdood: welcome to the world of the Post Correspondence Problem 03:07:47 calamari: do you have your bachelor's yet? i've completed the requirements for mine, but they won't send it to me until december... 03:08:03 i can't be assed to read the wikipedia page on that... 03:08:11 cpressey: yeah, I graduated in May 03:08:28 calamari: cool, congrats! 03:08:29 working at IBM here in Tucson, AZ 03:08:32 thanks 03:09:45 and the Eso OS? Already exists.. it's called z/OS (formerly OS/390, OS/370, ...) 03:10:43 hehe. wow, that thing is still around... 03:10:58 old systems never die, they just get rebranded 03:11:09 I have an entire bookcase full of manuals and that's a tiny amount of the available books on it 03:11:34 well most of the major comparies and banks rely on it 03:20:47 understandable. 03:21:12 anyway, i'm on dialup, so i should probably try to keep the phone line open... 03:21:36 see y'all later. 03:37:54 -!- immibis has joined. 03:39:19 oops wrong channel 03:39:26 oops wrong channel for that "oops wrong channel" 03:39:29 * immibis remembers that someone requested toBogE 03:39:41 toBogE loading 03:39:54 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined. 03:40:05 !raw nick toBogE 03:40:07 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE. 03:43:08 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:48:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:01:14 * immibis starts a gba development channel and a nds development channel 04:08:56 I suspect that it's already been done. 04:12:00 #gbadev is an inactive channel with no members that's still registered with chanserv - there seem to be a lot of them - so i took ##gbadev and ##ndsdev. 04:13:02 !raw join ##ndsdev 04:14:25 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html Hello, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD! 8-D 04:14:33 * GregorR is extremely proud. 04:23:22 Undefined syscall 6 (06) ? 04:23:23 -!- toBogE has quit (Connection reset by peer). 04:23:42 gmo 666 omg 04:24:00 * RodgerTheGreat views the source 04:24:05 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined. 04:24:10 holy poop on a stick, gregor 04:24:10 8-O 04:24:12 !raw nick toBogE 04:24:16 !raw join ##gbadev 04:24:18 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE. 04:24:23 What the bork? How do you not have syscall 6? 04:24:26 It's in mmixio.js 04:25:05 I'm not getting the syscall, either. 04:25:12 * pikhq is running on Konqueror 04:25:34 konqueror hrrrrr 04:26:16 * GregorR can't make it not work.k 04:26:23 pikhq and I are, amusingly, using the same HTML engine 04:26:34 OH HAY 04:26:40 I done made error! 04:26:45 It's intermittent whoot. 04:26:54 Technically, Rodger would be running a *closely related* engine. :p 04:26:54 feex eet 04:27:09 pikhq: it still has the same name 04:27:19 RodgerTheGreat: You run KHTML instead of Webkit? 04:28:06 pfft. Webkit is mostly a wrapper. 04:28:33 Actually, from what I know of Webkit, it's had quite a few changes since it forked from KHTML. . . 04:28:47 * RodgerTheGreat shrugs 04:30:41 GregorR: Fixed? 04:32:53 pikhq: Patience :P 04:33:42 GregorR: what was borken? 04:39:31 Finished channel list, receiving user list for each channel 04:43:03 -!- calamari has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:44:13 OK, that was a bitch to fix. 04:44:49 That firmly kicks ass. 04:45:23 Uh, I just uploaded it :P 04:45:30 Mind you, it was intermittent before ;) 04:46:05 Ah. 04:46:14 Damn it, it's still intermittent >_O 04:47:09 No, now it's not intermittent ... now it always fails :P 04:48:21 * pikhq should write NNIX sometime. . . 04:48:21 :p 05:05:57 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html <-- should finally reliably work with Konqueror 05:06:46 woo 05:06:48 worked for me 05:07:13 Anyway, Hello, world! 05:08:00 so, is that huge mass of binary data just a hello world, or is that libraries and stuff as well? 05:08:17 It's the C program included at the bottom there. 05:08:21 Compiled statically. 05:08:26 jesus christ 05:08:32 I suspect that's GCCmmix being inefficient, particularly with libraries. ;) 05:08:52 however, I salute you. Well done, GregorR. 05:08:53 Nah, that's only 65k 05:09:00 RodgerTheGreat: It's also a valid ELF, thus the size. ;) 05:09:16 (well, part of the size) 05:09:18 And it has libc in there :P 05:09:20 yeah, I was curious about the "loadELF64" part 05:09:24 That'd do it. 05:09:27 bingo 05:09:42 Hence my statement "compiled statically" >_> 05:09:53 (I suspect you could frob the linker into not including unused functions. . .) 05:10:15 And yes, I wrote an ELF64 loader in JavaScript ... I roooool. 05:12:39 Well, of course you do. 05:12:55 (now, implement an x86 emulator in Javascript. :p) 05:15:39 Unfortunately, it is excruciatingly slow :P 05:15:49 Waiting for printf() to actually get to the printf part was intolerable. 05:30:22 unknown syscall 06. 05:30:27 in windows firefox. 05:31:18 !cat is_toboge_working 05:31:21 Huh? 05:31:22 is_toboge_working 05:31:53 !cat !huh 05:31:57 Huh? 05:32:07 :i 05:34:50 immibis: Caching issues? 05:35:29 gregorr: it's busy at the moment, entering information into its factoid database 05:35:41 immibis: I was referring to JSMMIX :P 05:35:46 it gets a list of channels from irc, makes factoids for them, then gets a list of users from each channel. 05:35:47 oh ok 05:35:51 :P 05:40:55 Finished channel list, receiving user list for each channel 05:43:52 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:46:42 -!- EgoBotsClone has joined. 05:46:47 crashed by ConcurrentModificationException. 05:46:59 !raw nick toBogE 05:47:00 -!- EgoBotsClone has changed nick to toBogE. 06:00:52 !raw join ##ndsdev 07:32:56 when cpresset and calamari had their little smalltalk there, i thought calamari had a monologue xD 07:33:21 similar nicks should be banned instantly 07:37:39 Anybody have an algorithm for division given a fixed number of cells? 07:37:54 (In this case bytes, eight of them) 07:38:39 i just know the sucky one they teach at school 07:38:56 If it's better than subtracting in a loop, I'll take it :P 07:39:00 :D 07:39:12 well, if you don't know it, i doubt you passed 3rd grade. 07:39:34 Oh, long division? 07:39:39 I guess that's the obvious solution ;P 07:39:39 yarrrrrrrr 07:39:41 heh 07:39:44 i gotta go -> 07:39:48 schoollz 07:41:19 lol missed teh bus 07:42:00 teh division algo is nice with binary... i think... i implemented it once 07:42:20 and that was like 3 years ago, so i don't actually remember anything. 07:42:29 what are you writing it for? 07:54:18 GregorR: subtract in a loop 07:54:24 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b). 07:54:32 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:18:50 -!- jix has joined. 09:28:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:00:53 -!- faxathisia has quit. 10:19:57 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 11:05:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:12:15 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:29:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:45:20 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:48:42 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 14:08:56 -!- Keymaker has joined. 14:12:32 wow, congrats ais523!! i can't even remember if i've heard of it before, or if i've even congratulated already, but here goes... yeah, good memory... 14:25:04 it's really fantastic 15:06:46 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:07:31 -!- Keymaker has left (?). 15:26:49 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:49:28 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 16:07:20 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:14:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:19:46 -!- jix has joined. 16:21:32 -!- n0nsense has joined. 16:22:13 -!- n0nsense has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]"). 16:23:51 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:23:59 -!- jix has joined. 16:56:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:06:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 17:13:56 -!- bobo has joined. 17:18:32 what is that price about? 17:32:12 a very small turing machine proven universal 17:36:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:47:05 my power plug is broken... and 15 minutes of batteries... this is farewell, guys. 17:47:18 death 17:47:19 is 17:47:20 near 17:48:40 Bye then. 17:55:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:02:43 -!- calamari has joined. 18:05:14 -!- oklofok has joined. 18:05:50 hmm, my death would've been more dramatic if i hadn't already been on another computer before ping timeout. 18:06:01 *been here on 18:06:14 Don't worry, we'll all grieve. 18:10:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:13:15 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:16:30 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 18:22:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 18:23:32 (ircbrowse seems dead every time i try and cmeme is not even here) 18:27:12 -!- bobo has left (?). 18:28:22 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 18:49:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:50:55 -!- oklokok has joined. 18:51:48 oerjan: where have you been? 18:52:42 also, is it too hacky to make an asm tc by having half of the memory be divided in 256-byte chunks you can use like tape cells? 18:54:15 so that if the memory were, let's say 8 256-byte chunks, then there would be 256*4 static memory chunks, and 4 tapes with 256 bytes in each cell 18:54:22 oh, just trying to avoid those crazy killer finns 18:54:58 ah, sorry about all the killing 18:55:20 it's just inavoidable given our taste of blood 18:55:23 *for 18:55:27 anyway, my asm thing... 18:55:48 what's "taste for blood" 18:55:50 ... 18:56:59 i may have meant thirst, but goddamn my hands are hurting 19:01:48 well any paging system for having more memory than addresses is hacky, as i saw someone mentioned the other day. 19:02:24 that is true. 19:02:31 i'm trying to find the least hacky one 19:03:32 the problem with that is, you kinda lose modularity if you need a much more complicated system when the input data gets bigger 19:04:15 also with a tape you lose any resemblance of direct access 19:04:36 another way to get infinitely extendable storage is a bignum space somewhere in the memory 19:06:07 the problem with that is one of the things i wanted in my system was a simple cycle counting scheme, so that you could always know how much an operation takes 19:06:43 the problem is, with bignums you either lose O(1) arithmetic or there is no sense counting cycles. 19:06:50 asdf i can't type with this keyboards 19:06:53 -s 19:07:24 no sense, since bignum arithmetic is tc 19:07:50 well, then again i could have separate arithmetic for the bignum space or something... god this is complicated :) 19:07:56 someone offer me a simple solution! 19:08:52 bignum arithmetic tc - i don't think it gives _that_ much other than unboundedness 19:09:47 hmm, it isn't tc? 19:09:50 i mean 19:10:21 i don't know what i mean... 19:10:31 well subleq with bignums is tc 19:10:36 but that includes branching 19:10:48 fractran is tc 19:11:01 and that includes looping 19:11:09 hmm 19:11:34 true... i didn't actually mean the arithmetic itself is tc even though i did *say* it 19:12:01 what i meant was basically, that if you can do arithmetic with arbitrarily big numbers in a constant time... it's kinda not asmy... 19:12:02 :D 19:12:51 also where did you read doing that kind of paging is hacky? 19:12:54 i conjecture if it is tc then it's kinda not asmy 19:13:14 i'm not sure maybe here 19:13:23 at least addition can't be tc... 19:13:35 and i'm pretty sure division isn't either :D 19:13:43 there was some discussion on accessing > 4G on 32 bit machines 19:13:50 i see 19:14:40 division always halts, so it's definately not tc 19:14:56 and apparently if each process only accesses less, you can do it relatively well, but if a process alone requires more you get address problems 19:15:27 hmm, tbh i don't see why 19:15:29 do you? 19:15:40 if you want to use 32 bit addressing 19:16:11 i mean, why does it not work if a single process uses more than 4gt 19:16:16 ... 19:16:17 gb 19:16:17 you cannot just use virtual memory to fake it if a process alone uses more 19:16:44 i'll just believe you, i think it's easier 19:16:56 also, now where's that easy solution ;) 19:16:59 er, because 2^32 bytes = 4Gb 19:17:06 oh 19:17:37 well naturally you can't access more than 4gb if you use direct access 19:17:49 4Gib to be precise 19:17:57 hmm? 19:18:26 is that a complex number? 19:19:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix 19:19:22 ah 19:19:34 I just can't take the gibibytes seriously. 19:19:39 the i indicates powers of 1024 rather than 1000 19:20:01 yeah, i guessed it does that, just didn't actually know 19:20:20 hm, actually GiB, b is bits i guess 19:21:28 i'll just make it non tc and wait for a divine intervention 19:21:37 * oklokok implements 19:46:03 -!- calamari has joined. 19:46:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 19:51:40 oklofok, what are you doing? 19:51:43 just wondering 19:53:09 making an asm 19:53:42 why make a compiler for x86 when you can first make an asm, then compile to that 19:54:00 asm might technically mean an assembly, as in a mnemonics system... i mean a bytecode system 19:54:10 terms, scherms 19:59:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:01:15 you forgot an m in "schmerms", i believe 20:01:45 hmm, true 20:01:58 hard to think when your arms hurt 20:02:39 (my hands are not hurting, sorry for giving incorrect information earlier) 20:05:52 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:05:58 jkudst ttypoe wuitth yuouir fffeettt 20:06:18 i wish i could type with my feet 20:06:24 be able to use two keyboards 20:07:03 yes, just like you can use two mouses simultaneously if you have 2 hands 20:07:30 there might be software to do that 20:07:45 yeah, you'd think 20:09:28 i bet it would be great for 3d stuff 20:09:30 (two mouses) 20:09:59 two mouses and two keyboards, you could have focus in two different windows and be typing two different things at the same time 20:10:17 4d too >:) 20:10:53 with 3d, 2 mouses is a waste 20:10:59 *mice 20:11:01 hmm 20:11:10 wonder if it's regular with a computer mouse? :P 20:11:19 i guess nbot 20:11:28 *not 20:12:35 two mice and their spice, leaving in separate hice 20:12:45 *living 20:12:59 bad BAD fingers 20:16:20 why did my arms start hurting just when my computer broke, i could do with one of those, but both simultaneosly kinda take away my buzz 20:17:27 it's an OMEN. you need to get much more fresh air. 20:17:51 http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo 20:17:54 i have been out 5 times today. 20:18:04 actually muct more 20:18:05 *much 20:40:21 bsmntbombdood: thanks for the video :) 20:41:08 heh, reminds of me in an argument. 20:41:46 *reminds me of me 20:50:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:12:17 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 21:17:56 -!- Jontte has joined. 21:46:18 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:49:34 -!- oerjan has quit ("schmit"). 22:14:23 -!- ihope has joined. 22:33:22 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:36:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:40:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:14:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:17:45 yay, it's ready 23:18:03 well, the part i had planned sofar is ready anyway 23:19:01 so basically arithmetic, if-null-skip-next-instruction and setting values (= also outputting) 23:19:19 made a program that counts from 5 to 1 23:19:43 but it's so simple i'm not gonna show it xD 23:19:52 i'll do something real tomorrow 23:19:56 now sleep -> 23:24:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:40:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 23:44:02 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:44:12 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:45:01 -!- ehird` has joined. 2007-11-14: 00:01:19 Groff. 00:01:26 I don't know why printf doesn't work :( 00:01:27 ö 00:01:44 I think it has something to do with C's IO buffering. 00:01:57 hey don't worry, i don't know either 00:03:19 so what was it again you were cooking= 00:03:20 ? 00:03:29 MMIX simulator in JavaScript. 00:03:54 hmm, and mmix was an risc or smth? 00:04:04 It's Knuth's RISC. 00:04:06 or something everyone should know. 00:04:11 yeah, sounds familiar 00:04:32 Everyone Knuthiest (a member of the Knuth order of the Knuth religion) should know :P 00:05:21 knuthiest xD 00:05:36 I should create a CrazyOldComputerSciencePerson group 00:05:39 Knuth and Stallman could join 00:05:55 sadly, you couldn't 00:05:56 Knuth would look away in disguist at Stallman's hygene while Stallman would rant on about freedom 00:06:22 then knuth would hit stallman over the head with a micro-optimized assembly language sorting algorithm 00:06:47 and thus would speak Stallman: 00:06:57 "Wow. I didn't realise there were people with more of a clue than me." 00:08:45 GregorR: and err... why printf? is that mmix? 00:09:19 Uh, what? 00:09:22 printf is libc. 00:09:40 i see 00:09:40 But a program using printf, compiled to MMIX, isn't working. 00:09:43 i think,. 00:10:19 is the compilation correct, or does the actuall mmix code run incorrectly 00:10:26 both should be easy to trace :| 00:10:37 *incorrect 00:13:36 the compilation is by gcc 00:13:46 oh 00:13:46 gcc basically, never is wrong 00:13:48 :P 00:13:50 cheating' 00:13:51 Th compilation is right. 00:13:51 !! 00:13:54 no 00:13:56 Reliably right. 00:13:56 Huh? 00:13:57 gcc compiles to MMIX 00:14:06 GregorR is working on an MMIX emulator 00:14:08 no cheating 00:14:14 yeah yeah 00:14:29 your mother, anyway. 00:14:32 GregorR: ... Question: Does gcc-mmix compile gcc? 00:14:41 GregorR: I think you can see where I'm taking this. 00:14:50 ehird`: Donno, but don't think I haven't thought that way ;) 00:14:52 SELF-HOSTING JSMMIX DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT 00:15:03 You could develop it entirely in your browser in a shell :D 00:15:09 and compile stuf fand test it 00:15:14 Yup 00:17:32 if you give it some kind of XMLHttpRequest bindings 00:17:37 and a simple upload/get backend 00:17:41 then you could upload the new version from it 00:18:03 You could even implement an ANSI-compliant terminal emulator, and edit the JS code with vi in it 00:18:04 I am crazy 00:18:30 Vi running under a CPU emulator in JS would just be crazy :-) 00:18:38 Then you must do emacs, thus having another turing complete layer! 00:19:34 vim was actually my original goal. 00:19:48 I wanted a web-based editor that was really, truly vim. 00:19:51 wow. 00:19:52 Not vim-like, but actually vim. 00:19:53 how many turing machines does it take to change a light bulb? 00:20:06 oklokok: 1, but you don't know if it'll ever finish or not 00:20:40 Hahahahah 00:20:43 I <3 #esoteric 00:20:48 :P 00:20:56 hmm 00:21:07 i'm pretty sure that's simple enough that you can prove it correct 00:21:48 my answer was "trivially one given a way to encode 'changing a light bulb' into the program states" 00:21:59 but i'm not sure if that works 00:22:09 since it kinda doesn't... do anything. 00:22:25 these are the questions that keep me awake at night 00:22:34 and also the fact i drank too much caffeine 00:22:56 that's not funny, though 00:22:57 mine's funny 00:23:06 i agree 00:23:20 my idea was to be funny by ruining the joke. 00:23:49 requires less wit, you see 00:23:53 hmm, perhaps south park 00:24:18 ehird`: can i see the spec for that language of yours 00:24:22 what was it now... 00:24:31 jumping to -1 is exciting! 00:24:36 hmm 00:24:39 wiki diki doo 00:24:53 it's wapr for short 00:25:02 hehe, yeah 00:25:11 (The reason for that abbreviation has never been adequately explained.) 00:25:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wapr 00:25:18 the syntax of that is 00:25:23 "CMD stack -> newstack" 00:25:24 i'm making a generic assembly of some sort... 00:25:27 (the description) 00:25:59 thought i'd take that as an example assembly to make for it, since it's pretty simple 00:26:15 oklokok: Generic assembly? You mean C? 00:26:17 and also because i know the creator of it 00:26:25 GregorR: no 00:26:30 :P 00:26:36 hmm 00:26:50 perhaps i should respond to jokes with a smiley or something if i laugh at them D: 00:26:52 :D 00:27:08 in the olden days 00:27:12 we just used :-) to indicate a joke 00:27:16 and "Haha" to indicate laughs 00:27:18 ARRRRGH, why doesn't this work *sobs* 00:27:23 (OK, so I wasn't alive in those days but ;)) 00:27:25 Bloody printf 00:27:48 whut code does it create? 00:27:50 i mean 00:27:53 what's the mmix code 00:27:59 oh.... 00:28:10 it was that 2 meter long line noise? 00:28:13 the one you linked 00:28:18 Yes :P 00:28:22 The problem is, I believe, in the buffering. 00:28:24 TWO METE RLONG LINE NOISE 00:28:25 WANT TO SEE 00:28:27 SHOW ME NOW DAMNIT 00:28:29 :D 00:28:41 ehird`: Look at the source of http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html 00:30:19 ehird`: 1. spec no see on eso page! 2. blahbot, dead, is? why so, also, can run wapr, but... omg, how? 00:30:35 oklokok: um, its the spec 00:30:39 oklokok: the monospaced block 00:30:42 was it now xD 00:31:02 ah 00:31:10 indeed 00:31:17 too small to notice :P 00:31:20 pff 00:31:22 but that's the spec 00:31:40 it specifies the whole, afaik TC, language 00:31:42 I shall revive blahbot. 00:31:43 yarrrrr, now, that's not the asm language you were doing... some time ago? :\ 00:31:46 or is it? 00:31:48 oh 00:31:48 that 00:31:50 that's Yael 00:31:52 ah 00:31:58 * oklokok is the confusor. 00:31:59 (Yeah, I like weird names) 00:32:00 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yael 00:32:37 yeaps, that's what i was looking for 00:32:49 hmm, 4 hours till i need to wake up 00:32:59 i hope i'm sleeping... 00:33:32 now where is blahbot... 00:33:36 and you're not 00:33:50 :| 00:33:52 you sure? 00:34:09 you could just be a character in my dream 00:34:43 I'm pretty sure. 00:34:45 I mean, I feel awake. 00:34:48 Also: You can't read in dreams., 00:35:00 often i have characters in my dreams i have known for ages, like, i have memories of past incidents with them etc. 00:35:05 you could be something like that. 00:35:12 that is not true. 00:35:13 It is, in fact, completely impossible to read in dreams. So unless you're using text to speech... 00:35:15 and, no 00:35:16 it is. 00:35:17 google it 00:35:17 i actually often irc in my dreams. 00:35:28 yes, but can you READ and UNDERSTAND everything they're saying? 00:35:29 likely not 00:35:34 your brain just supplies some sort of meaning 00:35:42 i've had normal boring conversations in my dreams :| 00:35:54 is this a normal boring conversation? ;) 00:36:03 OK, let's try this 00:36:07 I'll CTCP VERSION you 00:36:12 Your dream couldn't remmeber THAT :p 00:36:19 true. 00:36:23 there you go 00:36:40 um 00:36:42 hmm... 00:36:43 why isn't your client responding 00:36:43 :| 00:36:47 my client doesn't show it... 00:36:54 this is xchat... 00:37:08 [00:37] [Whois] oklokok is n=ville@194.251.103.33 (ville salo) 00:37:18 that's my ip alright 00:37:19 I'm pretty sure your dream would not remember your ident 00:37:22 or your ip. 00:37:25 unfortunately i remember that. 00:37:37 hmm 00:37:40 OK, how about you just go to bed 00:37:40 :P 00:37:44 xD 00:37:50 but.. but 00:38:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:38:58 the boring conversation is usually the type, "i had the weirdest dream just now", "boring" was just something to characterize non programming related 00:39:15 often when i have a weird dream, i also have a few dreams where i tell everyone about it 00:39:44 where the hell is blahbot, oklokok 00:40:17 aha 00:40:17 * oklokok hid it, hihi 00:40:41 it's a-comin 00:40:45 -!- blahbot` has joined. 00:40:53 %help 00:40:53 quit [msg] 00:40:53 eval code 00:40:53 ps 00:40:53 kill pid 00:40:53 cmds 00:40:54 help 00:40:56 reload 00:40:58 join channel 00:41:00 part channel 00:41:02 send channel msg 00:41:02 uh 00:41:04 topic txt 00:41:04 i forgot that flooded 00:41:06 raw txt 00:41:08 bf code 00:41:10 parse code 00:41:12 reduce expr 00:41:14 nc expr 00:41:16 wapr code 00:41:18 rp msg 00:41:25 speaking of dreams, last night i had a dream laurel and hardy were having sex while running towards a shelf full of plates, which then fell on top of them killing them both 00:41:46 cüwl, it's teh bot 00:41:52 %help rp 00:41:56 %help nc 00:41:57 hm 00:41:59 :| 00:42:00 code reading time 00:42:30 reduce :O 00:42:34 !reduce okokoko 00:42:37 Huh? 00:42:38 it's $ 00:42:39 *% 00:42:46 $reduce okokokokoko 00:42:46 oh 00:42:49 %reduce okokokoko 00:42:50 and its a broken lambda calculus interp 00:42:50 o 00:42:59 well reduced 00:43:01 heh 00:43:13 jesus christ 00:43:14 singleton.send :define_method, :putc, proc {|c| c = c[0] unless c.is_a? Numeric; if c == ?\n; write(@buf); @buf = ""; else @buf << c; end} 00:43:18 i was so fucking evil back then 00:43:43 c == ? 00:43:47 hmm... 00:43:52 in ruby {|x| ...} is a block 00:43:54 with x as argument 00:43:56 whuzz that mean... 00:43:57 i know 00:44:01 oh 00:44:02 that's 00:44:03 c == ?\n 00:44:08 actual '?\n' 00:44:18 oh, why don't you need quotes? 00:44:18 ?CHAR == ascii number of CHAR 00:44:22 ah 00:44:28 so ?\n == ascii number of newline [it supports escapes] 00:45:10 what's < well, shift left. 00:45:20 but 00:45:22 array << val 00:45:25 is array.push(val) 00:45:27 thought so 00:45:42 @x means 'instance variable x' 00:46:21 hmm instance variable of what? 00:46:29 the object 00:46:34 oh 00:46:38 singleton is an object? 00:46:39 singleton.send :define_method, :putc, X # this is evil magic 00:46:46 singleton is an object 00:46:50 the singleton object of a class 00:46:53 its basically its metaclass 00:47:00 its an object that is each instnace of the class 00:47:57 %eval 2 00:47:58 => 2 00:48:00 %eval 2 + 5 00:48:00 => 7 00:48:05 %eval puts 2 + 5 00:48:05 7 00:48:05 => nil 00:48:24 %eval self 00:48:56 evals ruby code? 00:49:30 yes 00:49:40 i should remember... i've programmed on that 00:49:44 :P 00:49:56 Ruby is the only useful esoteric language. 00:49:59 It's Lisp + Perl 00:50:00 remembering is for computers 00:50:31 :D 00:51:08 someday i'll actually learn the techniques of my memory training book... 00:51:13 and remember ALL 00:51:20 %eval x=[] 00:51:20 => [] 00:51:22 %eval x 00:51:22 NameError: undefined local variable or method `x' for # 00:51:26 %eval self.x=[] 00:51:26 NoMethodError: undefined method `x=' for # 00:51:30 %eval @x=[] 00:51:30 => [] 00:51:32 %eval @x 00:51:32 => [] 00:51:44 %eval @x[0] = 2 @x[5] = 3 00:51:44 SyntaxError: (eval):1: syntax error, unexpected tIVAR, expecting $end 00:51:47 %eval @x[0] = 2; @x[5] = 3 00:51:48 => 3 00:51:52 %eval @x 00:51:52 => [2, nil, nil, nil, nil, 3] 00:52:04 aww. 00:52:10 i was expecting a sparse array ;) 00:52:36 def write(*args) 00:52:36 method_missing(:write, *args) 00:52:36 end 00:52:38 that makes no fucking sense 00:52:44 why do i have a method that calls method_missing? 00:52:48 that's tautological 00:53:00 past elliott is crazy :| 00:53:46 %eval self.class 00:53:46 => Blahbot 00:53:51 %eval thrad 00:53:51 NameError: undefined local variable or method `thrad' for # 00:53:52 %eval thread 00:53:52 NameError: undefined local variable or method `thread' for # 00:54:00 %eval Thread.current 00:54:01 => # 00:54:05 %eval Thread.current[:stdout] 00:54:05 => # 00:54:13 cute 00:54:20 %eval $stdout 00:54:21 => # 00:54:23 very cute 00:55:04 oklokok: I set $stdout (a global) to a class which is a 100% proxy (including as you can see pretty-printing) of Thread.current[:stdout] 00:55:06 same with stderr 00:55:17 %eval Thread.current[:stderr] = nil; $stderr 00:55:17 => # 00:55:25 %eval Thread.current[:stderr] = nil; $stderr.puts("hi") 00:55:25 => nil 00:55:32 and somehow it goes to console 00:55:32 ;| 00:56:05 hmm 00:56:16 isn't that the same prob bsmntbombdood had? 00:56:17 ah who cares 00:56:34 %parse +[ 00:56:34 Unmatched [. 00:56:36 %parse +[] 00:56:37 +[] 00:56:45 %parse +---[[]]- 00:56:45 +---[[]]- 00:56:46 %parse +---[[]]-[ 00:56:47 Unmatched [. 00:56:48 %parse +---[[]]-] 00:56:49 Unmatched ]. 00:57:04 %parse ][ 00:57:05 Unmatched ]. 00:59:45 %reload 00:59:45 Reloaded. 00:59:53 %eval puts 'testy' 00:59:54 testy 00:59:54 => nil 01:00:07 %bf ,[.,] 01:00:07 ./bot.rb:289: warning: getc is obsolete; use STDIN.getc instead 01:00:19 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:00:30 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:01:11 %bf ,[., 01:01:11 Unmatched [. 01:01:13 %bf ,[.,] 01:01:14 %ps 01:01:14 0. bf ,[.,] 01:01:15 1. ps 01:02:45 * ehird` adding input support 01:07:17 0 01:08:47 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:09:20 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:09:26 %bf ,[.,] 01:09:27 bot.rb:135:in `getc' 01:09:27 : 01:09:27 undefined method `empty' for nil:NilClass 01:09:27 ( 01:09:27 NoMethodError 01:09:27 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:10:56 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:10:59 %bf ,[.,] 01:11:00 bot.rb:136:in `getc' 01:11:00 : 01:11:00 undefined method `empty' for []:Array 01:11:00 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:11:20 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:11:21 %bf ,[.,] 01:11:25 %ps 01:11:25 0. bf ,[.,] 01:11:25 1. ps 01:11:29 %i 0 hi 01:11:29 bot.rb:136:in `slice!' 01:11:29 : 01:11:29 negative length (-1) 01:11:29 ( 01:11:29 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:11:59 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:12:00 %bf ,[.,] 01:12:02 %i 0 hi 01:12:40 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:12:51 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:12:54 %bf ,[.,] 01:12:55 %ps 01:12:55 0. bf ,[.,] 01:12:55 1. ps 01:13:01 %i 0 hi 01:13:01 bot.rb:136:in `getc' 01:13:01 : 01:13:01 undefined method `chr' for "hi":String 01:13:01 ( 01:13:01 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:13:04 :| 01:13:06 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:13:25 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:13:34 %bf ,[.,] 01:13:35 %ps 01:13:36 0. bf ,[.,] 01:13:36 1. ps 01:13:39 %i 0 hi 01:13:39 bot.rb:136:in `getc' 01:13:39 : 01:13:39 undefined method `chr' for "h":String 01:13:39 ( 01:13:39 NoMethodError 01:13:39 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:13:44 ughhh 01:14:10 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:14:20 %bf ,[.,] 01:14:23 %i 0 hi 01:14:37 %eval Thread.current[:stdin] 01:14:37 => # 01:14:41 %eval Thread.current[:stdin].getc 01:14:44 %ps 01:14:44 0. eval Thread.current[:stdin].getc 01:14:45 1. bf ,[.,] 01:14:45 2. ps 01:14:49 %i 0 hi 01:14:50 => 104 01:15:03 %eval while c = Thread.current[:stdin].getc; c; end 01:15:05 %ps 01:15:05 0. eval while c = Thread.current[:stdin].getc; c; end 01:15:05 1. bf ,[.,] 01:15:05 2. ps 01:15:12 %i 0 hello world 01:15:16 Uh 01:15:17 damn 01:15:18 %eof 0 01:15:18 NoMethodError: undefined method `[]' for nil:NilClass 01:15:48 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:15:58 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:16:00 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:16:03 %i 0 hi 01:16:03 h 01:16:04 h 01:16:04 h 01:16:04 h 01:16:04 -!- blahbot` has quit (Excess Flood). 01:16:25 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:16:26 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:16:28 %i 0 hi 01:16:28 h 01:16:28 i 01:17:04 %eval while true; puts Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end 01:17:08 %ps 01:17:09 0. eval while true; puts Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end 01:17:09 1. eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:17:09 2. ps 01:17:15 %i 0 hi 01:17:16 h 01:17:17 i 01:17:19 h 01:17:19 i 01:17:21 h 01:17:21 i 01:17:22 %kill 0 01:17:27 %eval while true; p Thread.current[:_input]; sleep 2; end 01:17:27 [] 01:17:30 %i 0 hi 01:17:30 [] 01:17:31 ["h", "i", "\n"] 01:17:33 ["h", "i", "\n"] 01:17:36 ["h", "i", "\n"] 01:17:37 %kill 0 01:17:51 %eval x 01:17:51 NameError: undefined local variable or method `x' for # 01:17:56 %eval putc "x" 01:17:56 x 01:17:56 => "x" 01:17:59 %eval putc "xy" 01:17:59 x 01:17:59 => "xy" 01:18:05 %eval putc "x"; putc "y" 01:18:05 x 01:18:05 y 01:18:05 => "y" 01:18:10 Curious. 01:18:38 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:18:49 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:18:51 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:18:53 %i 0 hi 01:18:53 h 01:18:53 i 01:18:57 Urrrrrrrgh. 01:19:29 %reload 01:19:29 Reloaded. 01:19:29 %ps 01:19:29 0. eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:19:30 1. ps 01:19:31 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:19:41 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:19:46 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:19:49 %i 0 hello 01:19:49 h 01:19:49 e 01:19:49 l 01:19:49 l 01:19:49 o 01:19:54 JASDOIJASDOiJASDHASDKJGASDJHSGDJKASGDJSDghj 01:20:23 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:20:36 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:20:39 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:20:43 %i 0 hello 01:20:43 NoMethodError: private method `p' called for # 01:21:46 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:21:56 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:21:57 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:22:00 %i 0 hello 01:22:01 h 01:22:01 e 01:22:01 l 01:22:01 l 01:22:03 o 01:22:36 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:22:46 -!- blahbot` has joined. 01:22:51 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; putc c; end 01:22:57 %i 0 hello 01:22:57 h 01:22:57 e 01:22:57 l 01:22:57 l 01:22:57 o 01:23:14 %eval method(:putc) 01:23:14 => # 01:23:22 %eval Kernel.putc 01:23:22 ArgumentError: (eval):1:in `putc': wrong number of arguments (0 for 1) 01:23:40 %kill 0 01:23:48 %eval whle c = $stdin.getc; $stdout.putc c; end 01:23:49 SyntaxError: (eval):1: syntax error, unexpected kEND, expecting $end 01:23:54 %eval while c = $stdin.getc; $stdout.putc c; end 01:23:57 %ps 0 hello 01:25:18 I'd better be off now. 01:25:27 I have to be up at 7 and it's 1 :P 01:25:40 -!- ehird` has quit ("... and now I'm gone"). 01:25:45 -!- blahbot` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:29:22 http://qdb.us/115346 01:31:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 01:32:21 -!- AnMaster has joined. 02:16:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:16:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:16:51 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:21:45 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:47:04 -!- immibis has joined. 02:53:56 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html <-- somebody else debug for me :P 03:04:12 what does "save.c:(.text+0xb68): relocation truncated to fit: R_ARM_THM_CALL against `cart_removed_handler'" mean and how do i fix it 03:16:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 03:33:50 Two friends are sitting in a bar: /exit and /quit. /exit walks away. Who is left? 03:34:04 /quit 03:34:13 /quit 03:35:25 how about joining #web2,0 03:36:41 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:37:13 Hi pikhq 04:05:39 ARRRRGH, I swear every instruction is correct >_< 04:05:41 WHYYYYYYYYYY 04:05:47 >_> 04:06:01 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 04:07:46 puzzlet: joining #web2,0 will join #web2 and #0 04:11:21 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Life without danger is a waste of o). 04:43:52 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:44:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:44:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 04:44:51 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:49:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:18:48 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:32:08 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:34:50 -!- Slereah- has joined. 07:36:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:36:09 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 11:14:52 -!- linuxfan has joined. 11:23:08 Still sleeping... :) 11:23:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:23:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:05:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:06:26 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:01:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:13:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:25:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:25:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:45:54 -!- blob has joined. 14:50:05 -!- blob has left (?). 14:50:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:50:59 -!- blob has joined. 14:51:22 -!- blob1 has joined. 14:51:56 -!- blob1 has left (?). 14:51:57 -!- blob has left (?). 14:54:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:22:39 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:35:06 -!- jix has joined. 15:53:57 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:55:52 -!- AnMaster has joined. 16:02:19 -!- linuxfan has quit ("leaving"). 16:12:49 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:27:00 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:32:00 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:32:08 -!- jix has joined. 16:57:10 -!- vux has joined. 16:57:35 -!- vux has quit (Client Quit). 18:12:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:22:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:29:41 hello everybody 18:30:10 Hello. 18:30:18 what's the best way to change the layout of a keyboard? I want to switch some keys. Do I have to recompile any drivers or something? 18:30:30 Platform? 18:30:39 Linux 18:30:45 but I care about windows too... 18:30:50 Desktop environment? 18:31:09 gnome. 18:31:16 i am on ubuntu 18:31:16 KDE and GNOME both have keyboard layout options in their respective control panels 18:31:46 and how can I create a custom layout? 18:32:08 Ohhh - well that I don't know :) 18:32:55 anyway. i'll search for files named like ubuntu's already existing layouts. And then i'll try to edit a duplicate of one of them 18:33:07 thanks for the help GregorR! 18:35:18 Glad I could be not particularly helpful :P 18:36:39 well you told me about the keyboard layouts. I had completely forgotten them... ;-) 18:42:31 MacOS Classic had an awesome facility for modifying/creating keyboard layouts 18:43:12 crack your System file open in resedit, double-click the appropriate resource, and you have a graphical WYSIWYG layout editor 18:48:15 MacOS classic also has cooperative multitasking :P 18:48:33 and your point is? 18:48:48 Cooperative multitasking is not inherently a bad idea 18:48:59 No, it isn't, I just like to make fun of it 8-D 18:49:17 Now somebody tell me why http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html doesn't work :P 18:49:19 that's very in-character of you, GregorR 18:49:34 I try to stick to the script *shrugs* 18:49:40 heh 18:50:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:50:43 Whoah, somebody else on both #d and #esoteric 18:50:52 I don't know whether this bodes well for #d or not :P 18:51:50 I've been seriously considering D as my next language 18:52:40 it took some convincing to get me past my gut feeling that it'd be as much a disaster as C++, but it seems very nifty 19:05:03 http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/show/ 19:05:19 lmao- a guy's annotated trip the the creation museum 19:05:45 did he do it in just six days? 19:05:47 "God's word offers HOPE. And as we all know, hope is the foundation to any rigorous scientific hypothesis. Wait, what? 19:05:49 " 19:13:06 -!- ehird` has joined. 19:18:10 Thanks, blood red lighting! 19:18:28 thanks, 1.1.2-jailbreakme-breaking iphone update! 19:24:10 It's extremely important to prevent 3rd party innovation. 19:24:16 Indeed! 19:24:20 Well, techncially 19:24:23 they didn't break jailbreakme. 19:24:31 They fixed the TIFF exploit that jailbreakme uses. 19:24:37 Which is good, I guess, but you know what their motive was. 19:24:56 (Amusing aside: jailbreakme actually patches up the tiff exploit after using it to do its thing) 19:26:37 The question is, can that exploit be used maliciously? That is, could it be exploited by going to a web site, or would you have to voluntarily invoke it? 19:27:04 as soon as the tiff loads it happens 19:27:08 so yeah it is very exploitable 19:27:16 Yeah, that's bad :) 19:27:22 (jailbreakme when viewed on an iphone just adds a link to /files/y.tif) 19:28:10 Apple has announced they will be releasing an iPhone SDK 19:28:16 RodgerTheGreat: i'm well aware 19:28:55 and even if they can't make it illegal to modify stuff you buy, they are in no way obligated to help you 19:28:57 RodgerTheGreat: now can I get, right now, a terminal, SSH, an irc client, a better home that supports scrolling of the list, etc. with it? 19:29:05 nope, didn't think so 19:29:18 and indeed, RodgerTheGreat. You also can't make it illegal for me to complain :) 19:29:40 well unless the iphone is a minority group or something 19:29:42 hurray for the UK. 19:29:43 :P 19:29:43 *if* they had those features, I would seriously consider getting one. I do not own an iPhone because I do not currently find it useful. 19:29:47 and they do 19:29:55 Installer.app has all of that 19:30:01 the terminal even runs irssi 19:30:11 nifty 19:30:12 also, there's a barely-functional doom port :P 19:30:22 (no sound or controllers, so you can basically watch the demo) 19:30:26 what is with people always porting doom of all things? 19:30:36 it's frickin' hilarious 19:30:39 Let's see somebody port Marathon to the damn phone 19:30:43 I mean seriously 19:30:49 Doom ported to NetBSD toaster! 19:31:03 "Does it run Doom?" is also infinitely funnier than "Does it run Linux?" 19:31:14 I actually played Doom on my 4g, non-colour iPod once 19:31:14 :D 19:31:49 I'd just like to see it done with a better game 19:32:04 RodgerTheGreat: oh yes, and there's a python/ruby/perl/tcl/etc port 19:32:34 or *GASP* an original game for these platforms instead of a mostly-pointless port of something you can play on a 386 19:32:44 oh ffs shut up 19:32:45 it's hilarious 19:33:00 let me know when they have LUA, Java, or a decent BASIC for it 19:33:17 Why would you want java :| 19:33:23 maybe FORTH 19:33:29 because I'm a Java programmer 19:33:36 pff you basically already have FORTH 19:33:38 everything is FORTH 19:33:38 :p 19:33:45 psh 19:34:02 http://www.modmyiphone.com/nativeapps/the-list/ a big list of native apps in Installer.app 19:34:06 (Though not complete) 19:34:28 RodgerTheGreat: for example, 19:34:30 a NES emulator. 19:34:36 no -- really. 19:34:39 a NES emulator. 19:35:20 haha, this is fucking brilliant. "According to god's word, thorns came after Adam's sin, about six thousand years ago, not millions of years ago. Since we have discovered thorns in the fossil record, along with dinosaurs and other plants and animals, they all must have lived at the same time as humans, after Adam's sin." 19:35:32 RodgerTheGreat: hahah wow 19:35:33 link? 19:35:38 an NES emulator is a hell of a lot cooler than Doom 19:35:43 http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/sets/72157603091357751/show/ 19:36:09 it's worth mentioning that reddit works great with iPhone Safari 19:36:15 specifically, http://www.flickr.com/photos/scalzi/1969184895/ 19:36:16 the interface relaly is done right 19:46:11 RodgerTheGreat: also, it can't brick your iphone 19:46:17 RodgerTheGreat: the worst it can do is require a restore from itunes 19:49:15 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:21:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:39:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 20:44:04 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:46:30 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 20:52:42 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:59:17 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:08:40 -!- cmeme has joined. 21:13:35 -!- cmeme has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:13:43 o_O 21:13:55 -!- cmeme has joined. 21:13:58 it's not entirely gone anyhow... 21:15:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:48:12 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:12:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:15:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:16:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:53:52 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:53:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 2007-11-15: 00:37:52 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:41:57 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:41:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:46:01 -!- Tritonio has quit ("Bye..."). 00:58:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:58:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:07:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:38:09 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 01:39:49 * pikhq sobs 01:40:00 -!- immibis has joined. 01:40:10 No new Dresden Codak. D: 02:06:53 ? 02:07:45 -!- Slereah_ has quit. 02:28:40 ooh 02:29:03 you could make a 3d "joystick" with 5 pressure sensors mounted in front of your mouth 02:30:02 one in front, one on top, one on bottom, one on the right, one on the left 02:30:09 and you just blow in the direction you want to go 02:31:18 s,blow,blow/suck, 02:31:51 http://www.dresdencodak.com 02:33:15 nice ass, blue-hair girl 02:36:18 * pikhq nods 02:37:46 i prefer real to drawn 02:41:36 Ok, that comic is hard to follow 02:41:42 It's the content of the comic that's more worthwhile. 02:41:49 It's difficult to follow the path of time in each one 02:41:51 yeah, i didn't get it 02:42:02 riot prrrl 02:42:13 . . . Okay, so he's a bit excessively creative with frame layout. 02:42:54 bsmntbombdood: I wanna stab the bad guys. 02:43:20 creative commons!! 02:43:33 * pikhq pulls out a switchblade 02:43:40 I think we should stab bad guys. . . 02:43:48 i wish i didn't have a penis, so i could be a riot prrl 02:43:54 LMAO 02:44:17 Oh, if Sukoshi were here. . . 02:47:05 self-taught teen-girl programmers and musicians 02:47:09 (with nice asses) 02:47:11 *swoon* 02:47:46 If you swoon for girls, you won't get any. :p 02:47:57 (you'll be too busy being unconscious) 02:48:48 i don't get any anyway, so i might as well swoon 03:05:12 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Depression is merely anger without ). 03:14:00 -!- ihope has quit ("Lost terminal"). 03:14:30 dresden codak is made of win 03:14:47 I really like Aaron Diaz's style 03:19:25 If Rodger agrees with me, then I *must* be right. :p 03:21:08 * bsmntbombdood eats some groove salad 03:26:13 pikhq: well, I think my opinions hold some weight when it comes to comics 03:27:06 RodgerTheGreat_: i don't think he was being sarcastic 03:27:08 In all seriousness, I must agree. . . At least as far as I've seen, you've got great taste in comics. 03:29:34 I also really like Minus: http://www.kiwisbybeat.com/minus62.html 03:33:02 how come batman doesn't have a wiener-slot in his costume? 03:33:07 Brilliant. 03:34:30 http://www.youdamnkid.com/comics/ydk20000613.gif 04:10:44 And it links to SMBC, DC, etc. I *love* Minus. :) 04:10:57 smbc? 04:11:06 . . . Oh. No wonder. It's another Koala Wallop strip. 04:11:24 bsmntbombdood: Saturday Morning Breakfast Comics. http://www.smbc-comics.com/ 04:11:49 i think i read some of those once 04:11:53 also nsfw comics 04:17:14 pbfcomics and simulated comic product are gold 04:18:26 True, but I only check those once every month or so. 04:19:02 yeah, they're a bit slow 04:19:22 And so's DC. 04:19:25 read any of phil foglio's stuff? 04:19:49 (come on, DC: you don't have a day job any more. :p) 04:20:08 I don't think I have, but the name sounds familiar. 04:20:17 I will be extremely pleased if Aaron actually starts making strips on a regular basis 04:20:33 pbf is total win 04:20:39 In theory, he was going to post one. . . Yesterday. 04:20:44 and i don't like DC 04:20:51 Why does his sense of time have to be nonlinear? :p 04:20:56 and i need a sentence using the word "sonorous" 04:27:10 nao 04:27:55 "Sonorous" starts with an 'S'. 04:29:02 j00 fale 04:32:17 James Earl Jones has a sonorous voice. 04:33:02 ooh good 04:36:23 danke 04:39:44 http://nsfw-comix.com/nsfw103.htm 04:40:56 new xkcd soon 04:42:22 huh? 04:42:40 five new comics this week!?!?!?! 04:44:02 yes 04:44:37 Yeah. 04:44:44 This is a good xkcd series. 04:45:03 this is the best week of my life 04:45:38 Nearly. 04:45:49 what is the best week of my life? 04:45:58 (if this were on the week of Thanksgiving, it would officially be the best week of my life) 04:46:40 why? 04:46:48 I *like* Thanksgiving. 04:47:14 (particularly when it seems to be just grandma coming. . . 4 science fiction fans under one roof == fun. :p) 04:47:48 i like thanksgiving too but 04:48:04 Annoyance of family or something? 04:49:18 no 04:49:19 i dunno 04:49:22 * pikhq shrugs 04:51:31 cp ~/schsot /mnt 04:51:54 heh 04:52:30 hm/? 04:53:07 wrong focux 04:53:09 *focus 04:53:14 it sticks sometimes for some reason 04:57:18 <3min 04:58:33 mörning 04:58:54 Hi oklofok 04:58:57 http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20070925.gif <- brilliant 04:59:03 * oklokok is very proud for actually waking up in time 04:59:20 http://nsfw-comix.com/nsfw071.htm 04:59:21 oklofok, for xkcd? 05:00:13 Woohoo new comic 05:00:31 wooooo 05:01:27 lofl 05:02:18 that was unexpected 05:02:19 the ending is gonna be epic 05:02:21 w00!!! 05:02:31 Now, Stallman *has* a katana. 05:02:39 I propose we get him to reenact this. ;) 05:03:06 *shing* *shing* 05:03:35 pikhq: two! 05:03:53 We can get him another. 05:04:48 Sgeo: how did you know when it was coming? 05:05:18 It normally comes every mon/wed/fri at midnight est 05:05:24 This week it comes every weekday 05:05:31 Not that hard. 05:06:06 Sgeo: well, mostly for school, i'm kinda screwed if i miss one more class. 05:06:35 hmm, perhaps i should do some showerizoring -> 05:10:29 *shing* *shing* 05:32:47 o 05:33:11 is there something on the nets i can get the time from ? 05:33:25 all my clocks are set to pretty much randoms 07:45:46 -!- clog has joined. 07:45:46 -!- clog has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:48 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:41:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:58:02 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:07:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:34:16 oklokok: if you want to know the current time, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time?action=purge and click on 'OK' 12:34:27 that updates the example on the page to the current time in UTC automatically 12:40:11 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 12:49:56 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:49:58 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 13:04:01 -!- jix has joined. 13:36:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:44:20 -!- Lottuk has joined. 14:52:06 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:52:54 wow, #esoteric-blah died bad 14:56:29 or you could just ask google "time in utc" 14:56:44 those two lines together = avant-garde 14:57:42 huh? 14:58:11 dunno 15:10:58 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:25:57 -!- Lottuk has quit ("and that, as they say, is that"). 15:40:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:09:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:18:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:18:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:19:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:31:46 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 16:32:09 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:32:19 -!- jix has joined. 16:37:42 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:38:06 hello everyone 16:40:49 hi 16:41:01 Hi. 17:13:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:13:40 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:21:39 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:22:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:43:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:34:34 http://www.streetfables.com/vandv.html <- this is a really cool story 19:07:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:13:57 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:30:31 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 19:30:53 -!- cherez has joined. 19:31:41 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit). 19:31:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:31:53 -!- cherez has joined. 19:48:16 -!- elliott has joined. 19:48:33 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:48:48 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:03:55 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:12:21 -!- oklofok has quit ("Lost terminal"). 21:22:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:25:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:36:28 we ran some tests on your wife's mmmmmm... uterus 21:40:00 Ideal for awkward conversation! 21:41:45 Buy now! 21:42:51 Cheap babies! 21:43:18 With them, you can afford ringtones. 21:44:13 I am weeping in the sour solitude of my toast. 21:46:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:46:15 Does it have cable? 21:47:42 I hear it goes well with chili sauce. 21:49:52 The wind is talking, oh my! 21:50:08 What is it saying? 21:53:48 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:50 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:50 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:50 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:50 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:51 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- oerjan has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- frontiersman has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:54 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:54 -!- tokigun has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:54 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:54 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:54 -!- ehird` has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:55 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:55 -!- oklokok has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:55 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:53:56 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:59:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:59:53 -!- cherez has joined. 21:59:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:59:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:59:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 21:59:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:59:53 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:59:53 -!- cmeme has joined. 21:59:53 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 21:59:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:59:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 21:59:53 -!- GregorR has joined. 21:59:53 -!- frontiersman has joined. 21:59:53 -!- sekhmet has joined. 21:59:53 -!- tokigun has joined. 21:59:53 -!- zuzu has joined. 21:59:53 -!- Overand has joined. 21:59:53 -!- SimonRC has joined. 21:59:53 -!- dbc has joined. 21:59:53 -!- johnk_ has joined. 21:59:53 -!- mtve has joined. 22:00:08 -!- AnMaster has joined. 22:00:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("Because of the gargoyles in my ear"). 22:00:13 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:00:13 -!- Jontte has joined. 22:00:13 -!- oklokok has joined. 22:00:13 -!- helios24 has joined. 22:00:13 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:00:24 How epic! 22:00:31 Indeed, now the logs will not see; 22:00:36 My discussions of past, as time went by; 22:00:40 Through the great netsplit. 22:00:57 i feel priviledged. 22:01:10 now sleepz ---------_> 22:01:20 Well how nice. 22:01:42 So is this some sort of bizzare impromptu play? 22:02:13 Oh, shit. I just broke the FORTH wall. 22:02:19 Now the system won't boot. Guess that's over then. 22:03:02 ehird`, eh? 22:03:10 what did you do you said? 22:03:31 forth? the programming language? 22:04:27 http://rafb.net/p/Ex6TPc55.html Impromptu play! 22:04:33 In 2.-i acts 22:04:55 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 22:08:14 -!- SimonRC has quit (Connection timed out). 22:14:25 -!- ehird2 has joined. 22:15:06 hellp from iphone running ssh connected to my vps running irssi 22:15:20 crazy 22:15:30 really? 22:15:37 yes 22:15:54 does the iphone have internets when there is no wifi? 22:16:10 yes 22:16:47 its a good speed tpo 22:17:12 even w/o EDGE 22:18:37 thpougj occasionally thr display lags 22:18:59 thpougj occasionally thr display lags 22:19:06 er 22:20:30 ofc this iphone is jailbroken 22:21:06 -!- ehird2 has quit ("Lost terminal"). 22:25:17 -!- ehird has joined. 22:25:30 on wifi npw 22:25:41 -!- ehird has quit (Client Quit). 22:31:06 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 22:41:11 * bsmntbombdood cool word of the day 22:41:13 "fecund" 22:45:02 whoa, "masochism" is from an author's name 22:48:27 Same as sadism! 22:48:47 * ehird` back 22:48:51 on computer :P 22:50:58 (n=ehird@elliotthird.org) 22:50:59 that's classy 22:51:07 i ought to do some crazy stuff to get my hostname as elliotthird.org 22:51:18 * Sgeo whores ##epic-fail 23:25:27 ##moosanity 23:59:03 NEW DC!!!! 23:59:55 !!!!CD WEN 23:59:59 Huh? 2007-11-16: 00:00:33 And this one's epic. :) 00:02:59 -!- Slereah has quit. 00:12:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:22:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:28:52 -!- Tritonio has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:29:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:35:53 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:35:58 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:36:04 re puzzlet 00:43:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 01:01:45 does anybody knows if there are any keyboards that allow you to change their mappings in the hardware level? :-| 01:15:15 are you allowed to use a soldering iron and/or JTag interface in this process? 01:28:06 RodgerTheGreat, I hope I don't go to these extents... Something simpler like the Optimus keyboard but without it's price would be better... ;-) 01:31:31 i might also need to change the mapping after some days... anyway. maybe i'll stick to changing the layouts that the OS uses. 01:33:47 I was thinking gut the keyboard and swap the controller chip for a microcontroller, and then create your own controller 01:52:40 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo_. 01:52:44 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 02:04:46 -!- Tritonio has changed nick to Tritonio_. 02:38:21 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:07:51 -!- fiftyeight has joined. 03:23:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:41:59 -!- fiftyeight has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:48:28 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 04:01:05 -!- Eulogy has joined. 04:01:14 hello all 04:01:21 bsmntbombdood: ping? 04:02:00 'Lo. 04:04:50 -!- Pixy has joined. 04:06:29 bsmntbombdood: i saw an irc log where you had been building a brainscrambler interpreter and couldn't find programs for it. well, i'm the one who came up with brainscrambler -- did it for the hell of it and didn't think that anyone but me and a few friends had seen it. figured you might find this interesting: http://daeken.com/media/bs.txt . that's the "official" interpreter, and the only one other than yours that i know exists haha 04:08:29 * pikhq is slightly impressed. 04:08:48 If I knew Brainscrambler, it'd probably be a bit more than slightly. 04:13:22 heh-heh, i'm just amazed anyone else did anything with it ;) 04:13:39 Know the feeling. ;p 04:46:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:13:55 Almost forgot about new xkcd! 05:16:21 Which is sheer awesome. 05:23:47 -!- oklokok has quit ("for the need to encumber"). 05:51:10 Eulogy: which one is brainscrambler? 05:52:23 oh right 05:52:48 why did you use 3 stacks instead of 2? 05:56:23 yay xkcd 05:58:39 i want to hear her rock out 06:26:22 bsmntbombdood: well, i decided on 3 because it was either include an instruction for swapping the top two elements of the stack or use 3 06:26:33 decided to go for fewer instructions instead of fewer stacks 06:27:05 why would that instruction be required? 06:27:54 two stacks make a tape 06:28:58 hmm, that's a good point. i guess it would be turing complete even without the ability to swap the stacks. for some reason, i hadn't even thought of it at the time 06:29:16 ---> bed 06:29:41 take care 07:40:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:41:45 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 08:15:15 AWOS? 09:14:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:47:57 -!- jix has joined. 12:49:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:57:58 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:59:41 -!- Slereah- has joined. 13:29:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:29:25 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:37:58 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:46:39 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:51:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:52:07 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 14:54:13 -!- tokigun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:58:56 -!- tokigun has joined. 15:02:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:28:21 -!- elliott has joined. 15:29:06 -!- elliott has changed nick to ehird`. 16:02:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:08:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:32:19 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:32:29 -!- jix has joined. 17:18:38 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:48:13 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 18:15:04 -!- faxathisia has joined. 18:15:23 hi 18:15:32 lo 18:17:29 I guess I'll write a minesweeper solver :/ 18:32:26 heh 18:34:19 OH NOES! Here I thought Minesweeper was a game requiring strategy, intellect and super-TC problem-solving skills D-8 18:34:51 I think you gotta have an infinite board to need TC skills :p 18:35:20 although clairvoyance would certainly help 18:35:44 GregorR: Well, it is NP-complete :P 18:35:57 Is it? Well, that's something anyway. 18:36:07 actually an infinite board should make it easy if there are finitely many bombs 18:36:27 just make the first click far enough off 18:36:32 There are nice pics of the logic gates in http://for.mat.bham.ac.uk/R.W.Kaye/minesw/ordmsw.htm 18:36:38 oerjan: if the mines are infinitely spread out that falls down 18:36:48 sure, you have 0 chance of hitting a mine, but it's still POSSIBLE! :) 18:37:02 faxathisia: Yeah, I like those 18:37:11 ehird`: it's always possible 18:37:36 even if you don't hit one, there might still be trouble in the finite part remaining 18:38:32 I want 26-dimensional Minesweeper. :| 18:38:59 ehird`: Planning on fighting a guerrilla war in transdimensional space? 18:39:26 Aren't landmines forbidden by transdimensional law anyway? 18:39:50 GregorR: Yep. 18:39:55 Slereah_: pff, like that'll stop me 18:40:03 Was about to say :P 18:40:10 They're forbidden by law, but this is WAR, PEOPLE! 18:40:13 Damn you you tinpot dictator! 18:40:24 GregorR: I'd hack the code to command poly-soldiers 18:40:36 I can kill trans-dimensional people from the comfort of my OS! 18:41:07 Well, most transdimensional people on my computer are tentacled beasts anyway. 18:41:17 Also that bearded mister Spock. 18:44:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:49:49 Why isn't I/O buffering working on JSMMIX :'( 18:49:57 I'll bet it's something about pushing and popping into functions ... 19:02:34 why don't you use JS's call stack? 19:08:14 ... JSMMIX does not compile MMIX to JS. 19:11:09 -!- oerjan has quit ("Reboot"). 19:20:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:27:20 uh i know 19:27:25 but instead of like 19:27:31 callstack.push(addr) 19:27:34 [do stuff] 19:27:35 do: 19:27:40 stuff_doer(do stuff) 19:34:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:34:48 GregorR: just an idea. 19:35:10 ehird`: Go read how PUSH and POP work in MMIX, then tell me that :P 19:35:28 Suffice to say that the register windows are more complicated than that. 19:39:39 GregorR: oh, ok :P 19:44:34 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:51:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:53:13 -!- faxathisia has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:40:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit. 20:51:18 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:43:51 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 21:44:25 -!- PonderS has joined. 22:14:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:14:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:14:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:32:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fru Ibsens ripsbusker og andre buskvekster"). 22:38:34 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 22:56:14 hmmm 22:56:27 people talk about highly-differentiable monospace fonts for programming in 22:56:41 why not just create you own alphabet that's differentiable and use that? 22:56:41 they do indeed 22:56:45 and someone has 22:56:52 but of course, it was entirely unreadable and shitty 22:56:59 reason: you know the latin alphabet *really fucking well* 22:57:54 hmm 23:06:43 -!- oklopol_ has joined. 23:24:17 duuuuuuude 23:24:24 you can make your own microwave pop corn 23:24:47 duuuuuuuuude 23:28:29 ... 23:32:12 CakeProphet: omg, you 23:32:20 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol. 23:39:12 omg me 23:43:47 omg microwave popcorn 23:43:54 no one understands how awesome this is :( 23:46:25 ...popcorn is awesome and no one understands that? 23:55:26 no, home made microwave popcorn 23:58:20 i see, i've had that sometimes 2007-11-17: 00:00:49 how do you do it? 00:02:07 you put some popcorn in a brown paper bag 00:02:24 oh 00:02:34 I thought you meant... somehow make the popcorn itself... 00:02:44 isn't it just a certain kind of corn? 00:03:36 no... 00:06:53 popcorn is made of magic and wonder 00:07:08 also bunny testicles 00:08:46 ,mmm yummy 00:09:06 i fondled a testicle's bunny once 00:15:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:15:35 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:32:37 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 01:10:01 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:52:42 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("haaaaaaaaaa"). 03:09:04 If the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum physics is correct, then there is a universe where (e.g.) all qubits in quantum-indeterminant states have always resolved to 1, and more generally all quantum experiments have resolved to predictable states. The scientists in this universe would naturally conclude that the universe is non-probabilistic, and they would in fact be correct. We of course consider that to be a low-probability corne 03:09:04 r case. The paradox: How can we reasonably say that /we/ are not in that corner case? It seems to me like the many-worlds hypothesis makes the probabilities meaningless. 03:10:23 Well, then again, we have observed the probabilities. 03:10:30 We must be in the lucky universe! 03:10:42 Either that, or the interpretation is false. 03:11:31 Arguably, there are infinite universes with some predictable consistency resembling probabilities, but utterly different ones. The most obvious example is the universe where all of the probabilities are precisely the inverse of ours. 03:12:01 At all time? 03:12:36 There are also plenty of universes where it's switched around randomly, but there are those which are just as probabilistically-consistent as ours. 03:12:44 If the probabilites were inverse at all time, by the time it reaches our epoch, it would be so different that "inverse" doesn't have any meaning! 03:13:23 Slereah: That doesn't matter, the universe doesn't even have to be inhabited or inhabitable to exist :) 03:13:23 It seems to me that, if the many-worlds hypothesis is correct, one can just obtain enough random digits for a string to perform string operations, and destroy the universe if wrong. :p 03:13:24 I'm not even sure what "inverse probability" means in the context, since some probabilities are continuous. 03:13:44 It's not just spins up and down. 03:14:05 Unless you only refer to those. 03:14:38 We can simplify the problem by e.g. only talking about qubits, but I don't see any reason it couldn't be generalized, it's too complicated for an IRC discussion ^^ 03:14:55 Well, most computation are for me! 03:15:12 But since I'm a physics student, I can still discuss such matters! 03:15:32 You're a physics student? Awesome, does my weird little rant make any sense? :P 03:15:42 I'm a *high school* student, so I shouldn't be discussing such matters. 03:15:47 (not that it's stopped me yet) 03:16:31 Hell, I'd throw you the stone if I didn't do the same thing back in high school. 03:17:35 Did you also laugh at how some people seemed to be so academically backwards in high school? 03:19:02 Not that much. 03:19:22 The really dumb people are usually filtered before. 03:19:23 Hmm. . . You may have gone to a better school than I'm at. 03:19:50 * pikhq notes that some of the seniors are learning *fractions* this year. 03:19:53 I'm not even in the same country! 03:19:53 My brother's class had <50% graduating. 03:19:56 Ah. 03:20:16 Damned French, with your better public education. :p 03:20:38 * pikhq at least assumes the .fr TLD is for France 03:21:58 I always used to like the many worlds hypothesis, because I like the thought that the apparent collapse of quantum states is simply the entanglement of the matter and energy that define us with other stuff. That way there's no ordained "observer." But this semiparadox could be a deal-breaker >_> 03:22:19 I'm trying to find a witty comeback, but I just can't find another fr region. 03:22:21 Unless you declare a new hypothesis. 03:22:45 The Paradox Hypothesis: everything is a paradox. 03:22:46 :p 03:22:47 I never really cared much about the probabilites. 03:22:50 Slereah: Frankenstein? 03:22:57 Not much of a place, but. . . 03:23:00 I just take the universe as it comes. 03:23:09 Well, yeah, it could simply lead to the conclusion that quantum mechanics is not, in fact, probabilistic. 03:23:18 Well, there's French Polynesia. 03:23:25 Yes indeed. 03:23:36 But if it isn't, I'm not that bothered. 03:23:41 Heh 03:23:44 Hmm. Gregor, what started you on this? 03:23:49 Quantum brainfuck again? 03:23:55 Stuck in traffic :P 03:23:58 The many world hypothesis probably stem from a deep sense of wrongness of probabilities. 03:24:00 ... 03:24:07 and not from some bigger idea. 03:24:19 But well, if they can find a way to prove it, kudos. 03:24:37 If it's correct, it can't be proved: That's the paradox :P 03:24:49 Well, maybe it can! 03:24:51 You never know. 03:26:06 Maybe 2=3? 03:26:17 Or the derivative of x^2 is x^2? 03:26:32 Well, those are mathematics. 03:26:41 You can make a formal system out of 'em. 03:26:50 As a guy going into computer science & mathematics, I care about mathematics a lot. :P 03:26:58 Although for some reason, you can either say that the axiom of choice is true, or not! 03:27:11 (hmm. . . Axiomatic system that allows for f(x)=x^2 and f'(x)=x^2? Tempting.) 03:27:13 Or the continuum hypothesis. 03:27:52 * pikhq wishes oerjan were here to give suggestions 03:28:57 Math is just full of strange things that were somehow proved. 03:30:14 d/dx(e^x)=e^x being a good example. 03:30:46 Well, there's stranger things out there. 03:30:48 Or even integral(f'(x)*dx)=f(x)+C. 03:30:52 Quite true. 03:31:41 Like that power-of-prime-number order groups are commutatives :O 03:45:50 WTF? >_O 03:46:12 As in, all groups with an order that's a power of a prime number are commutative? 03:46:27 If I recall correctly, yes. 03:46:38 That makes my brain hurt a bit. 04:03:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:13:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:51:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:51:57 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:34:49 -!- jgannon has joined. 05:36:09 Please say "Hello World!" 05:42:29 No. 05:42:29 stfu 05:43:04 If the many-worlds hypothesis of quantum physics is correct, then there is a universe where (e.g.) all qubits in quantum-indeterminant states have always resolved to 1, and more generally all quantum experiments have resolved to predictable states. The scientists in this universe would naturally conclude that the universe is non- 05:43:11 tthat's not true 05:43:21 the states are independent 05:43:45 just because all _past_ states resolved to one doesn't effect the probability of the next one 05:44:14 Good answer, bsmntbombdood. 05:48:38 i didn't read enough to see if it had already been discussed 05:50:30 aaaand it doesn't look like it 05:50:35 so you weren't being sarcastic! 06:00:32 >>>-->>> beed 06:01:02 bsmntbombdood: Of course they don't. 06:01:21 bsmntbombdood: But there will be, in the future, a universe that continued down that path. 06:01:48 bsmntbombdood: I'm viewing that as sort of a continuum for convenience. Yes, it continues to split ad infinitum, but there will always be a universe with the stated properties. 06:02:00 it's still nondeterministic 06:02:16 Simultaneous != nondeterministic. 06:02:51 And for the people whose consciousness continued through the path that 100% consistently chose a 1 for every qubit, the only reasonable conclusion would be that it's deterministic. 06:03:06 that universe splits from the one the observer is in 06:03:41 By the many-worlds hypothesis, the observer splits (the observer is entangled into the state) 06:03:51 whatever 06:04:08 it's the same essence 06:04:50 The point being that there is an observer, after performing rigorous trials, who must conclude that there is no nondeterminism. 06:04:57 wrong 06:05:22 If you had just checked the value of a billion qubits, and every one came up 1, what would you think? 06:06:14 that my universe is just as unlikely as one whose qubits didn't have a pattern i could recognize 06:06:31 That's presuming you already understand quantum mechanics. 06:06:52 If the people who had the opportunity to discover all of this in the first place saw completely consistent results, they would not have discovered quantum state. 06:08:48 i'm really going to bed now 06:09:00 'night :P 06:14:09 * pikhq should sleep 06:40:25 ARGH 06:40:26 *sobs* 06:40:29 Figured out the bug. 06:40:36 It was stuuuuuuuuuuupid X_X 06:41:00 When storing a byte, wyde (2 bytes) or tetrabyte (4 bytes) in memory, I was first clearing /8/ bytes X_X 07:43:48 THE GOOD: printf works. 07:43:54 THE BAD: It takes about 10 seconds to printf. 07:49:44 -!- grey_ has joined. 07:49:46 THE UGLY: printf("%d", foo) doesn't work >_> 07:51:58 Hey there, please print "I am new to IRP and not ashamed of it." 07:53:08 -!- grey_ has quit (Client Quit). 07:54:05 -!- greyerg has joined. 07:54:59 could anybody print "I am new to IRP and not ashamed of it."? 07:56:30 -!- greyerg has quit (Client Quit). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:23 http://www.codu.org/jsmmix/test.html // now with 100% more printf 8-D 08:00:45 It's not as slow as I thought it was, that was my experimental (and now abandoned :P ) I/O 08:07:00 -!- daleko has joined. 08:13:20 -!- daleko has quit ("Leaving"). 08:37:45 Foop :( 08:37:51 printf("Hello") // works 08:38:00 printf("%d", foo) // still doesn't work 08:39:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:46:55 Argh, pushing through these push/pop logs = PITA extreme ^^ 08:49:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:03:13 Wow, malloc thinks that my heap is at 0x0000000000000000 ... 09:23:13 JaaavaScript is sooooooo faaaaaast, woopidoopidoo, ... 10:43:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:13:39 -!- jix has joined. 11:17:23 i recall someone mentioning that the haskell type system doesn't give full unification 11:18:20 darn, i join #haskell for the first time in days and my _first_ message gets snapped up by Mr. Wong 11:27:33 Slereah: [from Wikipedia] Nor need a p-group be abelian; the dihedral group Dih_4 of order 8 is a non-abelian 2-group. However, every group of order p^2 is abelian. 11:30:04 (that was a "no" to "power-of-prime-number order groups are commutatives", btw) 12:30:57 pwnd 13:01:49 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 13:10:28 hello everyone... 13:41:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 13:48:37 -!- PonderS has quit ("Leaving"). 14:29:44 oerjan : Well, I'm no group theory buff. 14:29:53 But I remembered something like that. 14:34:46 maybe fields? every finite field has a prime power number of elements. 14:35:11 Well, as said, I do physics. 14:35:23 The only groups we do re rotation groups! 15:04:33 -!- oerjan has quit ("Dinner"). 15:10:18 GregorR: Holy fuck. You got hello world working. 15:10:25 GregorR: Does malloc work? 15:14:01 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:14:57 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 15:41:31 GregorR: ping 15:41:56 -!- Overand has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:42:17 -!- Overand has joined. 15:44:54 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 16:03:52 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:23:46 -!- Pixy has left (?). 16:24:37 -!- boily has joined. 16:32:31 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:32:41 -!- jix has joined. 16:56:57 -!- boily has quit ("WeeChat 0.2.6"). 17:19:34 GregorR: ping 17:47:15 http://neugierig.org/software/c-repl/ this is actually really useful 17:55:11 A C repl? Wow. 17:55:44 GregorR: I assume some of the syscalls are broken. ;) 17:59:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:59:46 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 18:03:08 pikhq: And yeha. 18:03:12 pikhq: Lok at how it works. 18:03:16 pikhq: It's crazy dlopen stuff. 18:03:31 But damn, you could do anything with it. 18:03:34 Even sockets. 18:03:40 And i'm using it now to test low-level stuff. Awesome. 18:05:20 Hmm. 18:05:30 That's awesome. 18:05:41 And true brilliance. 18:06:07 * pikhq feels his brain break on a C repl 18:06:15 "The approach is surprisingly simple: for each line of code you enter, we compile a shared object in the background. If the compilation succeeds, the object is loaded into a child process via dlopen(). If the child process segfaults, we know that the code was bad and so we can "rewind" by replaying all n-1 steps. Printing variables is handled by attaching gdb to the child process." 18:06:22 It's worth noting that apart from child.c, the thing's WRITTEN IN RUBY 18:06:24 I read that. 18:06:26 Jebus. 18:06:38 It deserves a rewrite in something sane. 18:06:44 * pikhq brings out PEBBLE. :p 18:06:53 Bah, Ruby is pretty good. It's just quite esoteric. 18:07:01 I hate Ruby. 18:07:05 As an esolang, it's good. 18:07:09 It's better to think of it as 60% Perl, 40% Lisp 18:07:13 The problem is that people *take it seriously*. 18:07:15 Instead of x% Python, or anything else. 18:07:27 pikhq: I don't see why not. 18:07:33 It's part Perl, part Python, part Lisp, part Tcl, and part *pure insanity*. 18:07:49 http://neugierig.org/software/darcs/browse/?r=c-repl;a=headblob;f=/repl There's nothing esoteric about this. 18:08:00 If there is in your mind, maybe you should learn how to program in more languages than 3 or something 18:08:35 That is a clean style on top of a language that is truly WTFish. 18:08:54 Umm, you know what, all decent Ruby programs look like that. 18:09:03 Maybe you tried to read Rails sources or something. 18:09:10 Rails, yes, is incredibly mind-damaged. 18:09:13 (how many damned function calling semantics does Ruby need? And block notations?) 18:10:21 Function calling semantics? How many does it have? 18:10:33 Err. 18:10:35 Syntaxes. 18:10:38 Block notations? There's one. { ... } with an optional |args| block. 18:10:50 do foo end 18:10:54 { foo } 18:11:00 yes, do...end 18:11:05 that's because ruby uses end in other places 18:11:40 also, as for function calling syntaxes 18:11:43 there's two. 18:11:48 IIRC, puts foo = puts(foo); 18:11:49 func arg, arg, arg ... 18:11:52 func(arg, arg, arg ...) 18:11:58 The former is to allow DSLs. 18:12:02 And. . . That's a good idea? 18:12:12 If you're using a DSL. Yes. 18:12:26 * pikhq pounds his head into the wall 18:12:38 Tell me why it ISN'T a good idea. 18:12:54 dsl? too lazy to wiki 18:13:05 Pointless additional syntax for a domain-specific language. 18:13:23 And Ruby has *sigils*. 18:13:30 SIGILS, for God's sake. 18:13:39 Expressing *scope*?!? 18:13:44 Ruby does not have sigils. 18:13:55 Sigils are indicators of type. 18:14:12 Anyway, an indicator for scope is 100% more useful than an indicator for type. 18:14:23 Also, I'm willing to bet you've used a language with sigils. 18:14:41 Assembly, perhaps? 18:14:55 (at least gas's syntax uses a sigil for registers and values) 18:15:10 Not that I think that's a good idea. ;) 18:15:27 Otherwise, no, I've not used a language with sigils. 18:16:24 The sigils are quite useful in practice. 18:16:33 Also, it's not "additional syntax". 18:16:42 the ()s are just ignored 18:16:46 a(b, c) is just a b, c 18:17:15 So, it's additional *syntactic sugar*. 18:18:39 Wow! Syntactic sugar! I bet you have never used a language with syntactic sugar. 18:18:44 So rare! 18:19:02 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:19:34 It's *useless* syntactic sugar. 18:19:45 But delicious. 18:20:07 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:20:26 pikhq: All syntactic sugar is useless. 18:20:38 Tautologies are tautological! 18:20:50 Not all syntactic sugar is useless. 18:21:04 C's syntactic sugar for strings is quite useful. 18:21:13 As is Tcl's $. 18:21:26 So what's not useful about syntactic sugar for DSLs? 18:21:35 Ruby, like Lisp, is *all about* DSLs. 18:21:37 You can do a DSL just as well without them. 18:21:48 You can do strings in C just as well without them. 18:21:51 Doesn't make it pleasant. 18:22:10 How does having to use "a b c" instead of "a(b,c)" make coding less pleasant? 18:22:29 "a b c"? It's "a b, c" 18:22:32 The comma stays the same. 18:22:33 ... 18:22:39 You just substitute the first space for a ( and add a ) on the end. 18:22:44 That's remarkably stupid. 18:23:17 Congrats! Now justify that. 18:24:57 Why do you need "a b, c" instead of "a b c"? 18:25:09 (this mostly seems stupid because of my Tcl experience) 18:26:08 pikhq: Because you have a(b, c). This is called 'consistency' 18:26:10 Also: 18:26:14 func anotherfunc arg arg2 18:26:22 is it func (anotherfunc arg) arg2 or func (anotherfunc arg arg2)? 18:26:40 (OK, so ruby shoots a warning for that anyway, but...) 18:26:52 func [anotherfunc $arg] $arg2 *or* func [anotherfunc $arg $arg2] is how it would be written in Tcl. 18:27:18 If you leave out the brackets, "anotherfunc" is just another argument to func. ;) 18:27:19 That's nice. You can do that in ruby too. 18:27:27 func (anotherfunc arg), arg2 18:27:31 func (anotherfunc arg, arg2) 18:27:36 True. 18:27:37 However, you should just do: 18:27:40 func anotherfunc(arg), arg2 18:27:44 func anotherfunc(arg, arg2) 18:28:10 Rodger, care to join the antiRuby squad? 18:28:36 Rodger's not here. :( 18:29:30 Don't you love squads which have no justification and don't even get things right about the language they're anti- about? 18:29:37 I sure do! 18:30:01 Name to me one thing I've not gotten right. 18:30:35 didn't you think the other function call syntax was a b c 18:30:40 Ah. 18:30:47 That would be one thing I got wrong. 18:31:10 Yes, it happens to be half of the points you've made, as you've only made 2. 18:31:15 (The other was 'SIGILS OMFG') 18:31:31 And multiple notations for blocks and function calling. . . 18:31:34 hmm, weren't you wrong about sigils too, pikhq? 18:32:18 dunno, just idly following your wombling 18:33:00 pikhq: Which is actually false. 18:33:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(computer_programming) 18:33:12 My sigil bit was not at all wrong. 18:33:17 the block bit was. 18:33:37 {| foo | bar} or do |foo| bar end 18:33:38 ? 18:33:44 What's wrong there? 18:33:52 Nothing. But they're parsed identically. 18:33:56 It is only done for one, single reason: 18:34:07 {} makes more sense on one line. do...end on more. 18:34:26 { |foo| 18:34:27 bar 18:34:29 baz 18:34:30 qux 18:34:31 } 18:34:36 That doesn't make sense? 18:34:44 pikhq: Ruby uses 'end' to end every other block. It would look incredibly out of place. 18:35:08 And why does Ruby use 'end' to end blocks in the first place? 18:35:24 Ruby is the only language to do that? millions more do it. 18:35:38 Just because you like curly braces doesn't mean everything else is insane. 18:36:31 Using a *word* for something that's more immediately clear with a single character is somewhat silly. 18:37:02 m$x\y^x;@xz,/£ 18:37:14 more immediately clear with single characters! 18:37:20 Nope. 18:37:34 In that case, words would provide more detail. 18:37:48 Lua does it too. 18:37:50 Do you hate Lua? 18:38:24 Not the greatest syntax there, either. 18:38:44 It's semantics seem fairly clean, though. 18:38:48 you should always use as obscure a syntax as possible, to keep the programmer on their toes 18:38:55 !! 18:38:57 Huh? 18:39:54 You have not given me one point on Ruby's semantics. 18:39:55 *his toes, chicks don't program 18:39:58 Just syntax. 18:40:12 Indeed, I haven't. 18:41:28 ... Blocks are objects?!? 18:42:25 Um, yes. 18:42:32 That's very sane. 18:42:37 And *some* operators are syntactic sugar for method calls, and others aren't? 18:42:43 Um, about 2 aren't. 18:42:52 Off the top of my head. All I can think of is ! 18:43:04 =, .., ..., !, not, &&, and, ||, or, !=, !~, :: 18:43:07 Since Ruby is very strict about what is true and false (false = nil and false, true = EVERYTHING else) overriding ! does not make sense 18:43:13 = isn't an operator anyway. 18:43:24 .. and ... are syntax for constructing Ranges. Not operators. 18:43:33 I'm sorry, you are hereby banned from discussing languages. 18:43:34 ! and not are identical, so that's one, and I've just explained that 18:43:37 Huh? 18:43:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:43:44 && and <-- identical 18:43:47 || or <-- identical 18:43:50 Same point about booleans i made. 18:43:57 You're arguing that = is not an operator? 18:44:04 != <-- is just ! ==, so wtf do you need to override it 18:44:07 Huh? 18:44:18 :: <-- Yeah. It's lookup. So just override the not found stuff. 18:44:32 pikhq: Yes, it's an operator technically. 18:44:38 pikhq: But it's not meant to be treated like one. 18:45:13 class foo { operator= (foo&x,foo&y); }; 18:45:14 ;) 18:45:30 Yes -- which is more evil than anything you have mentioned so far. 18:45:43 (granted, I'm not arguing for C++ ATM) 18:46:08 I think the ability to override = is useful. . . Particularly with things like C++'s GMP library. . . 18:46:34 I'd say it's obfuscatory. 18:46:39 operator=(mpz_class&x,string&y);operator=(mpz_class&x,char*y); etc. 18:46:44 Damned useful. 18:46:49 Evil. 18:47:18 mpz_class foo = "100000000000000000000000000000000"; or mpz_class foo;foo.from_string("100000000000000000000000000000000"); 18:47:39 Evil, however way you say it. 18:47:59 anyway 18:48:01 *Assigning a bignum from a string is evil*?!? 18:48:05 how would that work with duck typing?! 18:48:27 You have a point there. 18:48:30 x = "hello"; x = 2 # OH SHIT, String defines =. x is forever a string!!121212121 18:48:49 (Substitute more reaonable objects than "hello" and 2 but you get the point) 18:49:44 * pikhq just waits for the rest of the antiRuby squad to show up; they know a bit more than I do about the evils of Ruby. 18:50:00 Hello, oerjan. You've just joined a language flame war! 18:50:02 Good to know you can form your own opinions about things. 18:50:16 After all, who would rely on other people for evidence to support theirs? 18:50:19 Which seems to be approaching an ad hominem flame war! 18:50:36 (ah, it's just like the old days of IRC. :p) 18:50:48 fortunately, i don't know Ruby nearly at all! 18:50:53 ehird`: This seems particularly futile at this point. 18:51:03 Let's pick a language we *both* hate, and argue against it. :p 18:51:04 so i cannot really flame any direction 18:51:24 the little experience i've had with ruby was quite positive 18:51:56 like python, but a bit more versatile 18:52:11 mainly because of the block syntaxzorz 18:52:29 * pikhq goes off to wish that Tcl had lambdas. . . 18:52:35 oklopol: you've only used it when i showed it to you with blahbot, didn't you? :P 18:52:39 yeah! :D 18:52:50 I'd better get my bot back up anyway. 18:52:51 i'm not on any networks other than freenode, but i was sort of assuming the old networks _still_ were like old days, or worse 18:52:52 Hmm, I'll do that now. 19:16:07 Correction: Now 19:37:25 ehird`: A C REPL? Put that online and we've got a party 8-D 19:38:00 pikhq: I've only implemented three syscalls :P 19:38:09 I'm going to need to do some funky AJAX for a filesystem. 19:39:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:40:12 GregorR: Put it online? I'd do just as well to give everyone root access :P 19:40:27 Also, just store the filesystem as a javascript hash 19:40:28 ehird`: I mean in JSMMIX ^^ 19:40:33 ehird`: That was the plan. 19:40:45 ehird`: But I want to be able to access a filesystem without having it all download in one giant slow process. 19:40:52 {'dir': SomeObjectWithDirectoryInfoAndHash}, {'filename': SomeObjectWithFileInfo} 19:41:05 and wrap it all in a SomeObjectWithDirectoryInfoAndHash for / 19:41:12 ehird`: That was the plan. 19:41:22 and, make the filesystem user-based 19:41:24 you can registeer 19:41:26 ehird`: Except that the actual content will be downloaded on demand (and then cached) 19:41:27 and get a filesystem. 19:41:31 Yeah, do some AJAX shit. 19:41:32 Um, bad idea :P 19:41:41 better than giving everyone a shared fs :P 19:41:45 Why? 19:41:50 havok-ness 19:41:56 No writeback, ehird`. 19:42:12 If you do writeback, filesystem per user. 19:42:16 then why do you need to store it in the first place, GregorR. 19:42:17 Otherwise, doesn't matter. ;) 19:42:30 if nobody can persist their changes.. 19:42:38 ehird`: Because it would be an entire tree of tools, all compiled. It's just big to download the whole thing if people only use 1% of it. 19:42:48 have it download on-demand. 19:42:55 THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING >_< 19:42:58 oh. 19:42:58 okay. 19:43:02 and add writeback 19:43:04 because that'd be fun 19:43:05 or rather 19:43:12 implement dirt-cheap unix permissions 19:43:18 and let people either: 19:43:23 access /home/guest freely 19:43:28 or get /home/yourname if you register 19:43:35 it's like SSH accounts of days gone by! :P 19:43:37 Tell yah what - I'll implement the VFS, you set up a web hosting service that's willing to let us do that, and we'll set it up :P 19:43:45 I have just the thing. 19:43:48 A VPS. 19:43:54 Whose TOS lets me do anything legal. 19:44:05 How much do you pay for that? 19:44:08 $20/mo. 19:44:23 And the support is great, it's run by 3 people amazingly 19:44:28 Very community-centric 19:44:33 Also, you can change the OS at any time. 19:44:40 * GregorR now has an extremely-compelling reason to finish JSMMIX ^^ 19:44:43 And rebuild it at any time without involving humans 19:45:04 Yeah -- those yucky human things :P 19:45:29 I wonder how slow GCC would be in a browser :P 19:45:42 YeS 19:45:44 YES 19:45:46 YES OH GOD YES. 19:45:49 It must be done. 19:45:54 No reason why it can't be. 19:46:35 Hey, you should make your terminal do more stuff :P 19:46:40 Like, make it vt100 or whatever. 19:46:46 Then, you could run bash/zsh in it! 19:46:51 I want to get vim running on this thing. 19:46:58 Of course VT100 is in the pipeline for that ^^ 19:47:18 ... Oh god. I just had a terrible thought. 19:47:22 Xorg. 19:47:57 I think that canvas + GGI port + XGGI = X. 19:48:02 Porting Xorg would be ... ow. 19:48:09 X on ... ? 19:48:11 Holy shit :D 19:48:14 Anyway 19:48:14 hah, it doesn't count unless the browser runs on a machine built out of hydraulics. 19:48:18 rthere wouldn't be much porting to do 19:48:21 Oh, wait 19:48:25 You don't have a kernel, do you? 19:48:27 Of any sort. 19:48:27 in a snow storm. both ways. 19:48:35 Actually it's crazy, your processor has OS capabilities. 19:48:36 ehird`: I have a kernel of some sort. 19:48:40 GregorR: HOLY SHIT IDEA. 19:48:45 ehird`: The kernel is in JavaScript. 19:48:47 ... CAN LINUX RUN ON MMIX? 19:48:58 Not now, but I'm sure as hell not porting it :P 19:49:07 *BSD? 19:49:16 Only MMIXWare. 19:49:26 Which is in fact built into the reference simulator. 19:49:35 Just like my JS kernel is built into JSMMIX. 19:49:44 (And hence not really a kernel) 19:49:44 What about QNX? 19:49:48 That runs on everything. ;P 19:49:58 OH OH OH 19:50:01 BEOS!!!!!!!!!! 19:50:07 ... Yeah, it'll never happen, but one can dream. 19:50:08 This is getting terrifying, ehird`. 19:50:19 It was terrifying to start out with, GregorR. 19:50:21 Let's just stick to MMIXWare :P 19:50:23 Now it's AWESOME 19:50:28 All I want is vim in my browser. 19:50:30 Real, true vim. 19:50:31 Well, let me tell you this. 19:50:40 If someone gets Linux working on it 19:50:50 ... and you write a graphics driver for 19:50:54 ... and you get KDE running on it 19:50:59 (That'd be fast) 19:51:08 You will officially be the first project to reasonably call themselves a 'web OS.' 19:51:16 Alternatively, 19:51:32 If someone doesn't get Linux working on it, but my JS syscall support works out fine WRT MMIXWare 19:51:39 ... and I write a graphics driver for 19:51:40 ERROR: Aborting conversation. 19:51:44 Not enough awesome detected. 19:51:45 MolassOS 19:51:46 ... and I get KDE running on it 19:51:48 Not enough awesome detected. 19:51:56 oerjan: Egg-zactly :P' 19:52:13 Oh god, GregorR... Um, what if you port a web browser to it? 19:52:20 ... I wonder what it's eigenratio is? :D 19:52:22 Hahahahaha 19:52:29 Probably somewhere up there with graham's number. 19:52:52 This is a good point to mention that JS doesn't have sockets :P 19:53:03 Sure, but you could use XMLHttpRequest for http. 19:53:20 Admittedly, it requires a configuration in browsers to allow over domains, but... 19:53:30 Also, you should work on optimizing it now I think. 19:53:37 At the speed hello world goes, you have some work to do. 19:53:50 GregorR: Hmm. VMWare? 19:54:02 (Yes, I am trying to horrify you.) 19:54:25 ehird`: The slowdown is in ELF loading, not running the code. 19:54:40 Ah, ok. 19:54:45 Does malloc work, yet? 19:54:49 Ye 19:54:52 s 19:55:17 Ok. Then, uh... You have enough to run a C port of jsmmix, on it. 19:55:55 (World explodes.) 19:56:36 A C port of JSMMIX? Also known as MMIXWare? :P 19:56:44 Well sure, but JSMMIX is simpler :P 20:03:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:03:26 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:03:29 * ehird` just took one of those automated-screenshot-in-multiple-browsers sites, and put last measure in, and is dutifully awaiting the computers to crash. Am I evil yet? 20:04:46 * oerjan examines ehird` for horns 20:04:54 ouch! 20:05:36 :O 20:05:47 I guess you could say I'm horny. (badum tsh) 20:14:40 Hmm. 20:14:45 What command prefixes do all the bots in here use? 20:14:53 EgoBot uses ! I know that much 20:15:48 i think bsmntbot uses ~ 20:16:03 and ololobot uses >>> 20:16:14 yeah bsmntbot uses ~ 20:16:35 blahbot uses % which is ugly 20:16:50 @ is also ugly 20:18:04 * is commonly used 20:18:07 # is ugly 20:18:07 :P 20:18:40 a char is a char 20:18:57 esthetics! ;) 20:19:00 sp 20:19:21 my next bot will use space for a prefic. 20:19:23 *Ä*prefix 20:19:24 ... 20:19:26 *prefix 20:19:29 haha 20:19:33 please say you're joking 20:19:48 i won't 20:19:50 hah 20:19:56 jeez :P 20:20:01 'eval 2 20:20:02 =eval 2 20:20:06 use h and H as prefixes >:) 20:20:07 *eval 2 20:20:16 hello, oerjan. ;) 20:20:33 (Error. Unknown command ello.) 20:20:45 * pikhq loves the idea of having MMIXWare on JSMMIX. :p 20:21:47 `eval 2 20:22:01 &eval 2 20:22:09 :eval 2 20:22:12 Ok, they all suck. :P 20:22:50 Þeval 2 20:23:17 because i can type that. 20:23:41 ®ĦŊeval 2 20:24:02 してeval 2 20:24:03 Ħ¢º°Ω³¢↑JºŠÐŁŊJªĦŊıŁ°¢F»²³¢Ł²±¹↑ЪŠ¿ª&eval 2 20:24:07 hmm 20:24:09 i can't do those 20:24:20 they're japanese characters, oklopol 20:24:23 orly 20:24:25 hirigana, i thiiiiiiink. 20:24:32 They are hiragana. 20:24:33 (Note: I know no japanese so I'm probably wrong) 20:24:52 pikhq: Does して mean anything? :P 20:25:02 "Do". 20:25:20 heh 20:25:31 i should just have my bot parse Lojban 20:25:46 * pikhq hands you the official Yacc parser. 20:25:49 you could say "I wish ehird's bot would spew out a random quote" in Lojban and it would work :P 20:25:49 ko XXX 20:25:55 oklopol: I was about to say that! xD 20:26:01 heh 20:26:02 pikhq: Because that will work with Ruby. :P 20:26:09 ehird`: You can port it. 20:26:18 pikhq: Well, I could write 10 lines to interface with ruby and compile it as a ruby extension 20:26:20 Of course, you may want the BNF to work with, instead. 20:26:23 It'd be enterprisey and fast that way. :P 20:26:38 True. 20:26:42 But what'll be your lexer? 20:26:57 magical unicorns 20:28:42 SILENCE. 20:30:10 = * and : are my favourite, typable prefixes 20:30:18 cannot decide on one though 20:31:07 *=: 20:31:45 *=:) Generates a random smiley. 20:32:19 / would be interesting >:) 20:33:13 haha 20:33:22 /quit Exit the bot. 20:36:01 :D 20:36:39 also \x01 might be interesting 20:37:08 haha no 20:37:12 aw come on 20:39:01 So, every message to the bot would be a CTCP message? 20:39:38 pikhq: ofc! 20:39:39 :P 20:39:43 but seriously people. 20:39:59 / works well. 20:40:20 For a second there, I read that as "but seriously pebble." 20:41:24 pikhq: Um, / was a joke. 20:41:35 pikhq: "/quit" as a bot command? 20:41:40 Imagine the slip-ups. 20:42:10 >:D 20:42:32 Declare the prefix as "/ /". 20:42:37 3 slashes for a command! 20:42:42 / / Wheeeee! 20:47:47 no. : 20:47:48 :P 20:47:58 Come on, surely you can think of a good command prefix 20:48:20 The bot's name. 20:48:24 ehirdbot: foo 20:48:45 With the bots we have in here already, that's actually useful. ;) 20:49:02 no! :p 20:49:18 how can i do crazy bot command blocks that way?! 20:49:19 :D 20:51:21 Like? 20:52:29 Like (P used as prefix): 20:52:37 Peval def add(x, y) 20:52:44 Waiting for more input. 20:52:51 P... x + y 20:52:53 P... end 20:52:59 Consumed all input. 20:53:02 Peval add(1, 2) 20:54:21 Fair enough. 20:54:32 that would be tedious with "bot: " 20:54:59 Now, which prefixes are currently in use? 20:55:21 ! ~ >>> 20:55:25 Huh? 20:55:30 Use @. 20:55:33 oh 20:55:36 and % 20:55:41 Now, I need a prefix allocation bot in here. :p 20:55:45 and @ conflicts with lambdabot, which I don't like. 20:55:50 I mean, lambdabot is holy :P 20:55:54 # 20:56:10 So, @ shall be reserved. 20:56:13 #include 20:56:19 more convincingly 20:56:21 #mychannel 20:56:34 plus # is ugly 20:59:49 pikhq: =, * and : are my favourites right now 21:00:04 actually 21:00:06 * could be bad 21:00:12 it's a fairly common message-starter 21:00:18 mostly as a replacement to /me 21:02:23 So 21:02:28 =, : or other 21:04:14 | 21:05:26 haha 21:05:30 fugly ;p 21:06:57 this is major people! :p 21:07:48 |> 21:08:19 oerjan: you are a spawn of evil! 21:09:10 one char only unless it's realllly good ;) 21:09:14 <> 21:09:36 esome 21:11:21 esome? 21:16:58 an esome spawn of evil, i am! 21:18:30 >_< 21:20:35 nastly twitch you've got there. but i guess it goes with being a mad scientist. bwahahaha! 21:20:41 *nasty 21:22:34 ... 21:38:36 ok, this is just ridiculous :P 21:43:47 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:48:31 What the fuck. Why did Kate think it was OK to just disappear like that. 21:48:55 o_O 21:49:24 ..? :O 21:49:29 okokokokokokokokokokoko 21:49:48 oerjan: Kate the text editor. 21:49:54 For KDE. 21:52:01 btw did you know that "koko" may mean crazy in norwegian? 21:53:06 what's the best way to check whether two rectangles a and b represented by two points (NW and SE corners) overlap, when i know b is not fully inside a 21:53:34 hmm 21:54:08 actually, if i make that into (x-coordinates overlap and y-coordinates overlap), it's trivial 21:54:14 thank you for listening 21:54:29 you're welcome 21:56:27 I could sit here all day and just let oklopol solve his own problems 21:56:40 him: "How do you do X on Linux?" 21:56:41 me: 21:56:45 him: "I figured it out, thanks" 21:56:52 me: 21:56:54 that sounds unlikely 21:58:14 * ehird` decides his irc framework is too big 21:58:16 * ehird` minimizes it 21:58:26 Honestly, I just need regexps and callbacks to match methinks... 21:58:38 CAN YOU STILL SEE WHAT I AM SAYING? 21:59:18 NO 21:59:42 YOU'VE MINIMIZED TOO MUCH, THEN. 22:00:58 TO BE HONEST I THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE WHEN I REMOVED LOWERCASE CHARACTERS. 22:02:46 @proc.call($*) if msg ~= @regexp 22:02:49 that looks an awful lot like perl. 22:03:22 those who don't understand perl are doomed to reinvent it. 22:03:26 heh 22:04:44 Those who don't understand perl are doomed to reinvent it, *and think it's a good idea*. 22:05:09 "How do you take over the world?" 22:05:11 "" 22:05:23 "Oh, I get it now. Thanks." 22:05:24 :D 22:06:20 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:14:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:17:54 Perl has its nice parts. 22:18:09 Perl 6 is looking to be shaping up *really* well 22:18:13 It's much less obfuscated. 22:19:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:25:50 * ehird` wonders how to do argspec 22:28:31 -!- blablaehird has joined. 22:28:43 someone say something so I can test something. 22:29:25 Foo. 22:30:06 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.179 22:30:12 Thank you for the syntax-nss. 22:31:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:31:27 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 22:33:06 Hmm. Interesa. 22:33:50 :((?!!n=)+)!n=([^ ]+) 22:34:31 :D 22:34:41 -!- blablaehird has quit ("fuckyoutelnetirc"). 22:35:00 Use RawIRC ^^ 22:35:05 RawIRC? :P 22:35:11 http://www.codu.org/rawirc.c 22:35:24 Telnet IRC + syntax highlighting and automatic ping-ponging. 22:35:45 GregorR: Die in a fire. 22:35:51 (Also, compile that to run on JSMMIX.) 22:35:57 LOL 22:36:38 syntax highlighting? 22:36:43 oh 22:36:46 like highlights 22:36:51 It works fairly well. 22:37:42 GregorR: so are you using that now? ;) 22:37:58 Pah, apparently not 22:38:22 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 22:38:41 I also like how you ping the SERVER. 22:40:09 Eh :P 22:40:41 * ehird` is trying to figure out ruby's syntax for non-matching blocks in regexps 22:44:44 IT HAS NONE 22:46:33 non matching blocks? 22:46:51 jix: () but means 'DOESN't match this' 22:46:52 but turns out 22:46:54 i don't need it 22:46:59 /:([^!]+)!([^ ]+)/ 22:46:59 there is negative lookahead 22:47:16 (?!asd) 22:47:21 will only match if there is no asd 22:48:18 /:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :#{prefix}([^ ]+)stuff specific to commands arguments goes here/ 22:48:23 totally the clearest regexp ever. 22:48:34 but without lookahead you can't do negation... like something that doesn't match a ... if "b" doesn't match a "bb" doesn't match a either "bbb" doesn't match a too... so what should be captured? 22:48:50 so negation is only allowed in combination with lookahead 22:49:15 wow, i have a hideous parser for argspec 22:49:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:49:31 designed to allow everything from "a b c" to "a [b c]" to "a [b c...]" 22:49:34 and, it occurs to me... 22:49:41 why not just pass them in as arguments 22:49:45 "a", "b", "c" 22:49:50 "a", ["b", "c"] # note evil array usage 22:49:56 "a", ["b", "c..."] 22:50:04 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:51:18 jix left in disgust 22:57:16 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:00:06 /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^ ]+) +([^ ]+) +([^ ]+)(?: +([^ ]+) +([^ ]+))?\s*$/ 23:00:08 Behold. 23:00:13 BEHOLD!!!!!!!!! 23:00:56 Wait, that's wrong 23:00:59 The right way is even worse 23:01:05 /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+)(?:\s+([^ ]+)\s+([^ ]+))?\s*$/ 23:01:07 BEHOLD #2! 23:01:47 Wrong still! 23:01:54 /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)(?:\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+))?\s*$/ 23:02:06 Final behold. 23:07:09 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:07:18 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:10:10 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:10:25 peyavi: hello, bot! 23:10:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:11:24 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:12:10 **test 23:12:13 **test a b 23:12:16 Hm. 23:12:18 **test a b c d 23:12:20 **test a b c d e f 23:13:18 **test a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 23:13:45 **test +[] 23:14:24 what does peyavi know? 23:16:05 Nothing. Right now. 23:16:09 Well. 23:16:10 **test. 23:16:12 But that doesn't work. 23:16:14 As you can see. 23:18:06 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:18:09 what is it going to know? 23:19:46 lots 23:19:48 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:19:55 itll have a markov chain-er, a knowledge base, interpreters, ... 23:19:59 **test a b 23:20:01 **test a b c 23:20:03 **test a b c d 23:20:09 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:20:20 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:20:25 **test 23:20:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:20:59 Debugging this is... hard, 23:21:03 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:21:07 because threads don't print exceptions because they don't share stdin. 23:21:11 **test 23:21:15 I should fix that. 23:21:16 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:23:03 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:23:05 **test 23:23:24 i usually debug by looking at my code :P 23:24:57 I usually debug outside of channels that everyone can see. 23:25:54 i like looking at that 23:29:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:30:02 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:30:19 **test 23:30:19 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:31:18 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:31:22 **test 23:31:22 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:31:25 /sigh 23:32:10 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:32:18 **test 23:32:18 lolololol 23:32:22 **test a 23:32:24 **test 23:32:24 lolololol 23:32:29 AM I AWESOME, 23:32:31 or am I awesome. 23:33:49 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:34:00 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:34:08 **test 23:34:08 lolololol 23:34:10 **test2 23:34:10 lolololol 23:34:13 Oh. 23:34:13 Shit. 23:34:35 **test5 23:34:36 lolololol 23:34:39 **test5 z 23:34:45 BORKENATED 23:34:49 Oh 23:34:52 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:34:54 I'm stoopid 23:35:13 really? 23:35:17 how come? 23:35:40 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:35:44 ([^\s]+) instead of the actual command name 23:35:45 :p 23:35:47 **test 23:35:47 lolololol 23:35:49 **test2 23:35:51 **test2 a 23:35:52 **test2 a b 23:35:52 lolololol 23:36:01 **test3 a b 23:36:01 lolololol 23:36:02 **test3 a 23:36:03 **test3 a b 23:36:04 lolololol 23:36:04 **test3 a b c 23:36:06 **test3 a b c d 23:36:06 lolololol 23:36:09 **test4 a b 23:36:13 **test4 a b c 23:36:13 lolololol 23:36:16 **test4 a b c d e f 23:36:19 Ah. 23:36:21 ... doesn't work 23:36:30 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:36:50 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:37:03 **test4 a b c d e f 23:37:04 lolololol 23:37:07 **test4 a b 23:37:08 **test4 a b x 23:37:09 lolololol 23:37:16 **test4 a b xasdisajd asldajksdhlkashd*("Y£(* 23:37:16 lolololol 23:37:19 **test5 a b 23:37:19 lolololol 23:37:21 **test5 a b c 23:37:23 **test5 a b c d 23:37:23 lolololol 23:37:24 **test5 a b c d e 23:37:25 lolololol 23:37:25 **test5 a b c d e f 23:37:26 lolololol 23:37:26 **test 23:37:27 lolololol 23:37:37 OK, craziest command parsing system EVAR is complete 23:37:53 It compiles to regexps 23:37:55 This: 23:37:59 registerc "test5", method(:test), "a", "b", ["c", "d..."] 23:38:01 Compiles to this regexp: 23:38:09 /^:([^!]+)!([^ ]+) PRIVMSG ([^ ]+) :\*\*test5\s+([^\s]+)\s+([^\s]+)(?:\s+([^\s]+)\s+(.+))?\s*$/ 23:38:13 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:38:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:38:33 **test2 a b 23:38:33 lolololol 23:38:34 **test2 a b 23:38:34 lolololol 23:38:36 **test2 a b 23:38:36 lolololol 23:38:39 You see, it's flexible. :P 23:39:00 that 23:39:02 kicks 23:39:02 ass 23:39:12 yes 23:39:13 it does 23:39:28 doesn't do anything yet? 23:39:30 no 23:39:33 but it's still awesome 23:40:08 the framework itself is 142 lines 23:41:17 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:45:33 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:45:47 **test 23:45:47 lolololol 23:45:49 excellent 23:46:23 oklopol: ok, you get to decide what it gets to do first ;P 23:46:43 cool! 23:46:53 oh the pressure :\ 23:47:20 make the bot prefix allocation feature 23:47:52 hah 23:47:56 how would i detect? 23:48:03 try every ascii character in a message in here 23:48:06 and see who responds really quick? 23:48:06 :P 23:48:06 heh, no idea :D 23:48:19 not very realistic :P 23:48:36 if someone responds to a certain prefix often, it is considered that guy's prefix 23:48:43 often & fast 23:48:54 often = almost every time 23:49:32 bleh i'm tired 23:49:33 bah 23:49:35 that's loads of work 23:49:38 and is heuristic 23:49:42 (requires work over time to tell) 23:53:31 So, you merely need to send a message twenty times, and see if you get twenty responses within X seconds :P 23:53:34 That'll be fun for us. 23:53:46 oh look, thongs 23:54:31 GregorR: INDEED 23:54:32 i was thinking it'd just learn from when people actually use the bots. 23:54:49 how about something else, oklopol :P 23:55:13 hmm... pretty hard to beat that, but i'll try 23:55:18 You could also just make it speak and understand English. 23:56:22 hmm, i'm not sure if that was a random joke, or implying it'd be hard to make it detect prefixes 23:57:04 hmmmm 23:57:25 i'll go get some coke, perhaps i get an *awesome* idea on the way 23:58:55 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:59:50 -!- peyavi has joined. 23:59:57 This is some food for the markov chain generator. 2007-11-18: 00:00:00 This is some food for thought. 00:00:04 **markov 00:00:04 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:00:09 :| 00:00:26 -!- peyavi has joined. 00:00:27 This is some food for the markov chain generator. 00:00:28 This is some food for thought. 00:00:31 **markov 00:00:31 for the markov chain generator. 00:00:33 **markov 00:00:34 This is some food for thought. 00:00:35 **markov 00:00:36 chain generator. 00:00:42 Something peyavi must say to make food. 00:00:44 **markov 00:00:44 the markov chain generator. 00:00:45 **markov 00:00:45 Something peyavi must say to make... 00:01:10 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:01:28 Markov chains are fun. 00:01:38 -!- peyavi has joined. 00:01:39 pikhq: I'm restarting it now and it's going to leech from #php and #ubuntu 00:01:46 Not from #esoteric? 00:01:48 Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill! 00:01:50 And yes, from #esoteric. 00:01:54 But those are high-traffic channels. 00:01:54 Ah. 00:02:02 Gregor, start the Glass lecture! 00:02:07 Hahaha 00:02:12 **markov 00:02:13 first install driver 00:02:14 **markov 00:02:15 dad runs our wireless internet 00:02:16 **markov 00:02:17 start the Glass lecture! 00:02:19 **markov 00:02:19 talk to your dad then. 00:02:20 **markov 00:02:21 no encrypted files on my ipod 00:02:23 **markov 00:02:24 rhythmbox, how can I do it easly 00:02:34 **markov 00:02:34 Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill! 00:02:37 **markov 00:02:37 If you're using C++, then you have only simple types ;) 00:02:46 C++ only has simple types? 00:02:50 Omg! 00:02:51 Maybe out-of-the-box. 00:02:51 That's unique. 00:02:54 It got that from "If you're using C++, then you have a REASON to do so." 00:03:00 :D CLEVER BOT. 00:03:00 *Wow*. 00:03:11 I didn't expect results so quickly, hehe 00:03:15 **markov 00:03:15 device doesnt have driver/ out of box support e.g some USB WiFi card then u need to first install driver 00:03:18 **markov 00:03:18 ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents 00:03:23 **markov 00:03:23 :) 00:03:29 **markov 00:03:30 to fix all of my graphical glitches except for one... when my screen dims when a password prompt comes up or when the logout/shutdown screen... 00:04:04 **markov 00:04:04 Hopefully, I should get crap just like those users spill! 00:04:08 **markov 00:04:08 For discussion and help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents 00:04:08 match numbers in the middle of the string like: "ca4t" 00:04:27 **markov 00:04:27 it does not dim the whole screen, just the top left two thirds as though it is detecting the wrong resolution. How do I fix this? 00:04:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:04:51 pikhq: It's a second-order chain though. 00:04:56 So we have lots of repetition at the start. 00:05:07 If I made it first-order, it would be more unique but make less sense in the long term. 00:05:13 **markov 00:05:13 and add to each a checkbox 00:05:15 **markov 00:05:15 next to enable persistence? 00:05:16 **markov 00:05:17 the "web .NET" 00:05:18 **markov 00:05:18 screen, just the top left two thirds as though it is detecting the wrong resolution. How do I fix this? 00:05:18 from #php and #ubuntu 00:05:23 **markov 00:05:23 USB Hard Disc ? 00:05:24 **markov 00:05:25 dad runs our wireless internet 00:05:26 **markov 00:05:26 part of it? I mean if I made it first-order, it would be more unique but make less sense in the long term. 00:05:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:06:25 pikhq: Should I make it first-order, just for now? 00:06:31 Eh, why not. 00:06:33 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:06:44 -!- peyavi has joined. 00:07:39 **markov 00:07:39 this but I have no idea what terms to use 00:07:43 **markov 00:07:43 could someone help me fix my graphics problem? The logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use 00:07:54 **markov 00:07:54 or the dimming effect when the logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use 00:08:34 **markov 00:08:34 was on glob 00:08:35 **markov 00:08:36 could someone help me fix my graphics problem? The logout/reboot screen comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I have no idea what terms to use 00:09:11 **markov 00:09:11 XD card reader... 00:09:18 pikhq: Not much better, oh well 00:09:53 peyavi: #esoteric != a hardware help channel 00:10:44 Gregor, it's a Markov chain. ;) 00:10:46 **markov 00:10:46 wanted numbers as warranted, all the password prompt comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I think document explains how do I think document explains... 00:11:21 GregorR: Well, it passed the Turing Test. 00:11:28 ideally wouldn't you want something that balanced between first and second order according to how much data it has? 00:11:32 I'm going to go solve the halting problem now. 00:11:39 oerjan: No, the data in a markov chain depends on its order. 00:11:43 * pikhq creates an oracle 00:11:59 i'm sure you could make a hybrid somehow... 00:12:16 sure, but i don't want to :P 00:12:19 it's a lot of work 00:12:24 8-O 00:12:25 **markov 00:12:25 use preg_match() 00:12:28 **markov 00:12:28 because 3 isn't a Samba server? 00:12:29 * GregorR cries 00:12:37 GregorR: 8-O cries what. 00:12:40 that you fell for it? :P 00:13:12 ehird`: Yes. 00:13:16 :D 00:13:22 well, it's easy to pass the turing test if the bot uses other people's sentences without altering them :D 00:13:24 ehird`: I thought it was just your average IRC-ignorant dope :( 00:13:25 the "**markov"s should have given it away, honestly ;) 00:13:32 oklopol: actually. a lot of them were altered 00:13:39 yes, but not the one GregorR fell for 00:13:44 *sobs* 00:13:51 Except that it was repeated. 00:14:01 GregorR: Well, it's reading from #ubuntu and #php - homes of IRC-ignorant dopes worldwide. 00:14:05 So, you're right, in a way 00:14:10 ehird`: Heh 00:14:50 except the message probably was on-topic there 00:15:18 true. 00:15:25 **markov 00:15:26 win :3 isn't a HP dv 1000 laptop, :D 00:15:32 Well, it's learned smilies. 00:16:10 **markov 00:16:10 Flash 00:16:15 No!! 00:16:16 **markov 00:16:16 though it's incorrectly detecting my Desktop? 00:16:20 **markov 00:16:21 So should i didn't know how u wanna do, you want to the one the keyframes will be really good 00:16:23 **markov 00:16:24 :D 00:16:26 **markov 00:16:26 wanted numbers as warranted, all the password prompt comes up doesn't do my resolution. I'd google this but I think document explains how do I think document explains... how do my ipod to how... 00:16:39 Ok, well that works 00:16:40 :P 00:16:52 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 00:18:37 **markov 00:18:37 keeping the files from my Desktop? 00:18:39 **markov 00:18:40 areas 00:18:42 **markov 00:18:42 'casper-rw' volume and boot live CD to keep a persistent copy all the same UBR as me! how do you want to break. 00:19:08 "how do you want to break" 00:19:13 Sounds like a threat. 00:21:12 heh 00:21:14 **markov 00:21:15 3 00:21:17 **markov 00:21:17 interact in alpha 00:21:19 **markov 00:21:19 XP since i know what terms to dial up or the XD card reader... but I have given it doesn't do my ipod to z 00:21:29 OK, what should I add now :P 00:22:38 what's 5*2? 00:22:45 heh 00:22:48 an evaluator 00:22:49 okay. 00:22:53 :O 00:22:55 yes!½ 00:22:56 actually. 00:22:58 okay 00:23:03 oklopol: ruby evaluator? 00:23:07 if so i'd have to secure it, so :| 00:23:09 nooooooo!! 00:24:34 what, then 00:25:05 not making the evaluator yourself woulf be cheating 00:25:11 *woof woff 00:25:12 :P 00:25:21 This is turning into RZing. 00:25:31 Suggest something else? xD 00:26:03 what's RZing? 00:26:11 ololobot has an evaluator 00:26:40 hm 00:26:41 what does it do 00:26:45 just arithmetic? 00:26:47 if so that sucks 00:27:39 hmm, k 00:28:06 :P 00:28:15 you're so helpful 00:28:16 xD 00:28:22 it's the only useful command in ololobot 00:28:32 i've actually needed it a few times 00:28:54 Name what ololobot can do. 00:29:04 err 00:29:09 dunno, random stuff 00:29:16 not much. 00:29:51 xD 00:29:52 list! 00:30:23 it has interpreters for numbda, scheme, brainfuck, bootstrap and ski 00:30:31 and random small progs 00:30:51 * pikhq wants a Battle of Wits Magic deck. . . 00:30:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:31:54 random small = ? 00:32:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:32:28 yeah 00:32:35 like factorization 00:33:06 name them 00:33:21 k 00:33:40 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi 00:33:48 bf is brainfuck 00:33:52 bs is bootstrap 00:33:58 what is d o x k i s 00:33:59 expr evaluates math expressions 00:34:04 help lists those 00:34:08 numbda is numbda 00:34:15 pl pointlessifies 00:34:22 ul is ski. 00:34:29 dict is a dictionary 00:34:36 2-way dictionaty 00:34:37 *r 00:34:51 feed is that thing you made into your bot xD 00:35:02 sch is the scheme-alike 00:35:12 what thing that i made? 00:35:14 choose picks one of its args at random 00:35:24 d throws dice 00:35:25 anyway, d o x k i s in-pr in-po in-fi are the ones i care about 00:36:22 >>> o k 10 00:36:22 okokokokokokokokoko 00:36:22 >>> x k 23 00:36:22 kokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokok 00:36:36 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 00:36:40 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:40:33 o 01:30:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:40:20 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 01:44:53 * pikhq wishes for a way to play-test Magic decks. . . 01:50:17 lloooooooser 01:51:09 azerbaijan 01:53:06 * pikhq plays his deck face-down 01:53:09 * pikhq attacks 01:53:55 * bsmntbombdood is impervious to your dork-attack 01:54:59 You lose 200 life. You die. 01:55:10 overkill 01:55:15 And when you're in #esoteric, you shouldn't call me a loser. :p 01:55:19 oklopol: I know. 01:55:22 :) 01:56:16 there's nothing dorky about magic, it's a pretty decent game 01:56:30 theoretically speaking 01:56:43 it's a bit too cardy for me 01:56:49 It's quite a good one in my opinion. 01:57:00 Except that it's hard to find someone to play when school's not in session. ;) 01:57:17 my friends used to play it online 01:57:38 I need something I can do that with free. 01:57:42 (I'm kinda broke) 01:57:57 i don't know what they used, but i do know they didn't pay for it. 01:58:39 I know the official program requires paying for digital cards. 02:11:33 of course 02:11:40 how could you prove you own the physical card? 02:12:02 You don't have to own the physical card. 02:12:13 You must merely own a digital one in the official online game. 02:15:37 yeah... 02:16:28 i meant if it wasn't like that 02:19:04 that's an interesting problem actually 02:19:25 i'm not sure it can be done 02:20:25 yeah pretty sure it can't without a smart card 02:21:19 I think an online game could be useful without the ability to ensure that Wizards gets paid. . . It would encourage a large amount of playtesting new decks. 02:21:38 Of course, tournaments and such would still need physical cards. 02:23:11 and solving that problem would give you a really good digital currenc 02:23:12 y 02:23:24 -!- digital_me has joined. 02:23:57 WARNING: We have a Wikipedian! 02:23:58 :p 02:27:35 :p 02:27:40 -!- tokigun has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 02:32:05 -!- digital_me has quit ("Lost terminal"). 02:32:25 lol wikipeidan 02:32:42 lol 02:32:59 anyway, long time see you ;) 02:33:30 ? 02:34:13 eh, i meant i made no conversation for many months... 02:37:46 -!- digital_me has joined. 02:38:08 i was trying to create the real implementation of Formula, and got lost 02:45:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 02:58:27 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving"). 03:00:17 -!- cmeme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:02:02 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:07:12 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit). 03:07:23 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:11:02 Hey, can somebody say "Hello World!" for me? 03:11:59 no 03:12:10 Hello World! 03:12:24 Yay! Thank you. 03:12:33 -!- cmeme has quit (Client Quit). 03:12:46 I can also sing about bottles of beers, or even repeat what you just say! 03:12:47 -!- cmeme has joined. 03:12:54 * Slereah <- Turing complete 03:13:03 That's pretty exciting. 03:13:16 Isn't it. 03:13:29 Although I'm kinda hard to implement on another machine. 03:13:45 Slereah: no you aren't 03:13:45 Is that innuendo? :-p 03:13:49 I'm also Turing complte. 03:13:56 However, I'm also programmer-abusive. 03:14:00 No, but it would be! 03:14:07 Slereah: calculate 2^2^26 03:14:10 erm 03:14:17 2^2^2^2^2^2^2 03:14:20 I could, but it might take a while! 03:14:44 Execution speed is always a problem for us mere mortals. 03:15:29 you'd die before you calculate it 03:15:34 not turning complete 03:15:38 Probably not. 03:15:42 Although I'd be bored. 03:16:03 Well, so would your computer if he tried to calculate the exact solution of some 3 body system! 03:16:32 omg boobies 03:32:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:33:13 -!- digital_me has joined. 03:34:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:49:37 Humans are not Turing complete. 03:50:06 Proof: The halting problem is unsolvable for all Turing-complete machines. The answer to the halting problem for any human is "yes" 03:52:00 Much like any computer! 03:52:21 But if I was some sort of infinite brain in a jar... 03:52:24 Or something. 03:53:47 -!- jgannon has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]"). 03:54:13 GregorR: You can tell if humanity will halt? 03:54:23 * pikhq gets pedantic. ;) 03:55:11 I know that /a human/ will halt. 03:55:23 I said that /humans/ are not Turing complete, I did not say that /humanity/ is not Turing complete. 03:56:23 Do you say "humans" as in "any individual human" or "humans as a group"? 03:56:43 Hmm. 03:57:07 * pikhq suspects that humanity is the only Turing-complete system to have a theoretical infinite amount of storage. 03:57:12 (assuming an infinite universe) 03:57:38 If you don't have enough memory, just create a child. Voila. 1 man-unit of storage. 03:57:43 hhmmm 03:57:48 humanity could be turing complete 03:57:49 Well, and also an infinite life for humanity. 03:57:53 I mean "any individual human" 03:57:55 We shall call this 'malloc'. 03:57:59 "Humanity" == "humans taken as a whole" 03:58:06 True, true. 03:58:09 Which is pretty unlikely. 03:58:34 It's hard to be human when you're just random particles scattered over a few cubic parsecs. 03:58:47 Granted, the lifespan of humanity is the limiting factor. 03:59:07 Also, limited memory. 03:59:33 A human is only capable of communicating a certain amount of knowledge to another human. 03:59:56 This probably creates an upper limit to the complexity of problems humanity can solve. 04:00:16 Solution : infinite robots roaming the universe. 04:00:43 It also has the advantage of being an infinity of robots. 04:04:07 it's reasonable to assume that humanity will go on forever 04:04:14 GregorR: With an infinite amount of humans, this does not matter. 04:04:31 you don't even need infinite humans 04:04:36 just always-growing humans 04:04:38 That assumes that any problem can be broken up in such a way that multiple humans can do it. 04:04:45 bsmntbombdood : Even after the sun slowly dies, and matter slowly turns into iron 56? 04:05:00 Slereah: yes 04:05:01 I'm talking of unfathomable times, but still. 04:08:25 close enough 04:11:55 The environment in which a device operates shouldn't be considered when asking if said device is Turing-complete. 04:12:57 Well, the device itself will slowly perish. 04:13:25 no real device can be turing complete so it doesn't matter 04:13:31 this is a pretty stupid discussion 04:13:48 Indeed. 04:13:59 But it is always a good occasion for mentioning infinite robots. 04:16:13 -!- Guest792 has joined. 04:16:47 -!- Guest792 has changed nick to VERTiGO31. 04:17:10 Please say "Hello World!" 04:17:54 Hello World! 04:18:09 I have this feeling of dj vu. 04:18:31 8D 04:18:47 Please say "I wish I'd never made IRP >_<" 04:18:51 I wish I'd never made IRP >_< 04:19:03 Okay, where did IRP get mentioned now? 04:19:11 syntax error 04:19:19 stumble upon =P 04:19:27 *groan* 04:19:31 Heh 04:20:29 Hey, it's the first 'program' I've written in IRP, I figured I"d make it a hello world 04:20:41 *groan* 04:20:45 Heh 04:20:47 IRP? 04:20:56 Slereah: Nooooo, don't ask, stay pure! :P 04:21:01 I feel your deja vu, Slee 04:21:08 Internet Relay Programming. 04:21:21 It's a joke I made on the Esolang wiki. 04:21:26 Don't worry, I know little enough about programming. 04:21:28 Which then got reddit'd or something. 04:21:29 Please do a barrel roll! 04:21:31 The preferred answer for IRP is "ERROR: I don't want to." 04:21:36 GregorR: >_< is my smiley 04:21:40 ERROR: I don't want to. 04:21:42 you must pay me royalties 04:21:44 bsmntbombdood: O_O 04:22:58 also M_< 04:23:22 * Slereah looks the IRP article on Esoteric. 04:23:24 Oh. 04:24:22 bsmntbombdood: "you" is my smiley. 04:24:28 bsmntbombdood: Thou must pay royalties. 04:24:35 oh snap. 04:24:36 Please, write the 99 bottles lyrics 04:24:36 go to hell 04:24:43 I see the limits! 04:24:43 GregorR: goober nap 04:26:31 Esoteric = impractical, amirite? 04:26:39 not exactly 04:26:48 brainfuck. 04:27:30 what about it? 04:27:35 esoteric? 04:27:45 painful, that's for sure. 04:27:56 that, and I want acompiler for it. 04:28:02 you know where to find one? 04:28:03 there's many 04:28:10 I use Brainfuck Developer. 04:28:11 I cant find any ;-; 04:28:12 The files archive has loads of 'em. 04:28:22 Nice. 04:28:23 it has many nifty gizmos. 04:28:31 esoteric = "Having to do with concepts that are highly theoretical and without obvious practical application." 04:28:33 Like seeing the actual memory. 04:28:50 lol 04:29:58 http://www.4mhz.de/bfdev.html 04:30:30 I'm not sure if it can compile, though. 04:30:33 Never had to use it. 04:31:17 Thanks 8D 04:31:19 [shameless plug] The EgoBF suite includes a compiler. 04:31:29 o.o 04:31:49 you mention this 2 seconds after I finish the download. Good timing, I give you that =P 04:32:25 286 kB? I could have spared you that! 04:32:55 I"m sticking with BFDev for now. looks fancy 04:33:36 It's really swell. 04:33:54 =3 04:34:52 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeggoooooooooooboobs 04:35:26 Boobs? 04:35:44 Breastisis. 04:38:25 the answer to success is planning ahead 04:38:36 "hello, i'd like to register to be a sex offender" 04:38:47 So, I'm trying to figure out why JSMMIX doesn't work on IE. Unfortunately, IE seems to have no debugging facilities whatsoever. 04:39:20 "I'm planning on some groping and orgies. Mostly with children, but probably some teens as well." 04:40:36 Print the first 40 digits of Pi. 04:41:09 I only know 10. 04:41:16 What's the error message for IRP? 04:41:45 I know 40! 8D 04:41:58 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971 04:42:10 Do you know them, or know copypasta? 04:42:18 I know them! 04:42:39 I tried to memorize the first 100 for a roject in school 04:42:43 project 04:42:54 got to 40, and they stuck with me forever 04:43:34 I knew 9 for the longest time. 04:43:49 * VERTiGO31 starts singing the obvious billy joel song. 04:43:50 I know the 10th because of the song "Mathematical paradise". 04:44:10 Lol 04:45:18 So like 04:45:22 .____. 04:52:55 Oh SHFFFFF 04:53:10 IE won't handle my gigantic array containing an ELF64 binary >_< 04:53:14 ERROR: Lol wut? 04:53:25 XD 04:53:30 IE can't handle anything 04:53:49 It doesn't even give me an error, it simply doesn't accept the code ._. 04:54:31 XD 04:54:46 It doesn't even give me an error signifying that it couldn't accept the code X-D 05:19:47 -!- digital_me has quit ("leaving"). 05:26:00 Why the hell does IE not like that big of an array? 05:26:19 you sorta answered yourself. 05:26:21 Fuck it: AJAX it. Make the Javascript load a file of MMIX assembly. 05:26:24 IE 05:26:35 VERTiGO31: You have a point there. 05:26:43 Or just kill IE. 05:26:45 8D 05:27:16 Why 0x8D? 05:27:31 switching to hexidecimal now? 05:27:37 that's be an emote. 05:28:30 I know. ;) 05:28:44 hehe =P 05:44:58 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:51:54 Well then... I gotta get up and outta here. 05:52:40 -!- VERTiGO31 has left (?). 05:55:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:45:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:24 -!- okupa has joined. 08:01:45 -!- okupa has quit (Client Quit). 08:08:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:08:21 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:49:05 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:52:09 That assumes that any problem can be broken up in such a way that multiple humans can do it. <<< there are always problems where separating calculation into multiple threads does no good, i recall reading. 08:52:38 humanity can't be tc if i'm correct 08:53:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:05:17 -!- oklopol has changed nick to oko. 09:05:22 okokokokokokokoko 09:23:56 -!- oko has changed nick to oklo. 09:48:42 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:46:39 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Success). 11:22:10 -!- jix has joined. 12:53:16 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:54:48 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 13:03:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:09:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 13:46:31 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:16:35 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:29:58 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:59:20 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:59:59 oklo: minimization of nickname? 16:32:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:32:58 -!- jix has joined. 17:01:58 -!- frontiersman has quit ("leaving"). 17:03:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:04:05 -!- peyavi has joined. 17:04:33 **markov 17:04:33 just before and the test the test complete fine 17:04:36 **markov 17:04:37 are in Gnome Nautilus? 17:04:38 **markov 17:04:39 fine 17:04:40 **markov 17:04:40 [function.filesize]: Stat failed for http://images.slashdot.org/topics/topicinternet.gif (errno=2 - No such file or directory) 17:04:44 **markov 17:04:45 handle just before and the test complete fine 17:08:14 **markov 17:08:14 problem http://librenix.com/?inode=21 17:08:16 **markov 17:08:16 myfile.exe 17:08:18 **markov 17:08:19 has the no need antivirus 17:08:20 **markov 17:08:20 four as loaded? then, how to optimize! :P 17:08:25 **markov 17:08:26 with changing the hell is in Mplayer? I'm using gnome Nautilus? 17:08:27 **markov 17:08:28 from two workspaces is there any chance to understand why Linux does not trying to start..i dont know if I listen *.conf" . 17:11:06 **markov 17:11:07 why Linux does not it is he doing with changing the buttons aren't being recognized by xev. 17:11:21 **markov 17:11:21 active ). hi. 17:11:23 **markov 17:11:23 work? 17:11:25 **markov 17:11:25 people..maybe they are: similar 17:11:26 **markov 17:11:27 reboot is my ifconfig -a: bit worried at the test complete fine I'd just do what I reboot is it 17:11:33 ok i'm dne :P 17:49:38 -!- ihope_ has joined. 17:54:19 **markov 17:54:19 hard drive ? hi. guys, WHen i think NFS client with journaling. 17:54:22 **markov 17:54:23 kid learning math? 17:54:24 **markov 17:54:25 program again it allows you want all are unix code in ubuntu is compiz-fusion basicly added to be allowed to Gutsy? adding it shows the data on.. here are the... 17:54:43 such a clever little thing. 17:54:54 :-P 17:55:25 Does it have a good reason for saying things like "WHen"? 17:55:34 Yes, other people have said "WHen" 17:55:41 it keeps the original punctuation and spelling in context 17:55:47 (Although treats "when" and "WHeN" as equal) 17:55:57 Does it say "WHen" as commonly as it says "When"? 17:56:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:56:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:56:48 It says "WHen" if, when it first saw "Word-preceding-WHen WHen" before the correct spelling 17:57:41 So if I say "foo When" a hundred times and "foo WHen" once, and it generates "foo", what'll come next? 17:58:19 WHen 17:58:27 Err 17:58:29 Well 17:58:32 which did you say first 17:58:37 Because if so, that one. 17:58:40 * ihope_ nods 17:59:20 If I say "foo bar" a hundred times and "foo quux" fifty times, will it say whichever I said first, or "bar" with a 2/3 chance and "quux" with a 1/3 chance? 18:00:00 Oh, the weights, yes. 18:00:03 This is a markov chain, of course. 18:00:08 * ihope_ nods 18:00:10 Otherwise, it'd just parrot the first sentence it hears, over and over! 18:00:15 Indeed. 18:00:28 It's just punctuation/capitalization that's preserved from the first time 18:00:35 * ihope_ nods 18:00:57 If you ever have it do a Markov chain of me, good luck getting it to do anything but ask questions and agree with you. 18:01:15 It's listening to you know, incidentally 18:01:17 *now 18:01:20 * ihope_ nods 18:02:03 **markov 18:02:04 liked it. 18:02:15 How profound. 18:02:31 **markov 18:02:31 marcrove chains or ~^Phill^~ / 18:02:39 **markov 18:02:40 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=587905 18:02:41 **markov 18:02:42 #ubuntu+1 supports many formats. There a mac unix certified? 18:02:44 **markov 18:02:44 earlier but im the old swap should reflect that. one. gateway (router) ..you could point me off with the Taligent and "grep video card and "foo When" i see !info unrar-free 18:03:00 Yay, "foo When". 18:03:02 **markov 18:03:03 live cd 18:03:12 **markov 18:03:13 based on qemu I can't 18:03:14 **markov 18:03:14 Konqueror (KDE/Qt, KHTML engine), Dillo (GTK), Gecko engine), Dillo (GTK), Gecko engine), Epiphany (GTK, fronend 18:03:21 I take it WHen and When" are considered different words. 18:03:26 ihope_: No, identical/. 18:03:35 **markov 18:03:35 Oh. 18:03:38 **markov 18:03:39 .com :< lvm. or directory) 18:03:42 **markov 18:03:42 linux-image-server has the moment, Thanks for RAID? 5 years ago 18:03:44 **markov 18:03:45 volume 18:03:46 **markov 18:03:46 "security = 18:03:48 **markov 18:03:48 well, 18:03:49 **markov 18:03:50 NTFS partitions then how to read from seeing my main partition+swap partition you never 18:03:52 **markov 18:03:52 oldbie to do i need help me how do in Mplayer? has the case with ubuntu???? Firefox (GTK, fronend 18:05:42 How long has peyavi been observing? 18:06:44 pikhq: Uhh, it doesn't save. 18:06:47 Since it joined here, then 18:06:52 Since 17:04 18:06:57 (here, it's 18:06) 18:06:58 So about an hour. 18:07:12 **markov 18:07:12 projects, with the utf8 mode"? in it. Thanks 18:07:46 It's also first-order now, to speed learning. 18:07:49 And starts off mindless 18:14:20 **markov 18:14:21 oldbie to do i need help me how do in Mplayer? has the case with ubuntu???? Firefox (GTK, fronend 18:14:24 **markov 18:14:25 animation package 18:14:27 **markov 18:14:27 for any software which is there 18:14:28 **markov 18:14:29 hax though. 18:14:29 **markov 18:14:30 Gutsy? my wireless card probably. less; unix 18:14:33 **markov 18:14:33 Epiphany (GTK, fronend 18:14:34 **markov 18:14:35 imagine this, means? completely just 1 18:14:37 **markov 18:14:38 ifdown eth0;ifup eth0 wlan0, 18:14:40 **markov 18:14:40 legolas-San, 18:14:41 **markov 18:14:42 vmware-server system -> what did tell it looking for? operating systems know. if so; i'm running 18:14:46 **markov 18:14:47 Indeed. 18:14:48 **markov 18:14:49 found at the terminal 18:14:50 **markov 18:14:50 irritating me there. any rules are both are in smb.conf folder 18:23:22 Seems an interesting thing. 18:31:05 **markov 18:31:05 ubuntuforums.org but they Open display... i'm working ... 18:31:09 It's very basic, of course. 18:39:52 upgrading to feisty was a great idea, now xchat freezes every 10 seconds 18:43:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:43:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 18:44:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 18:44:33 hello 18:48:39 Ello. 19:03:53 o 19:16:52 oklo: you fucked up somehow 19:16:59 oklo: reinstall or something :p 19:17:01 **markov 19:17:02 player, when you want to unmount the swap partition? /dev/sdb1 19:17:06 **markov 19:17:07 eth0;ifup eth0 i wrote win on ubuntu boot commands are u 19:17:09 **markov 19:17:09 haa , ehird` (read the KDE deps, 19:17:14 wow 19:17:15 lucid. 19:17:19 **markov 19:17:19 troubleshooting docs 19:17:20 **markov 19:17:21 card its a hundred times 19:17:22 **markov 19:17:22 No rwx and AC97 sliders to other /boot, and #ubuntu-offtopic is madwifi something :p 19:24:24 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:36:41 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:36:41 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 19:45:15 -!- ehird` has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 19:45:20 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:51:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 21:01:15 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:03:50 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:05:39 **markov 21:05:45 Oh. 21:08:28 I can markov if you want. :p 21:14:10 okokokokokokokokokokokoko 21:15:30 -!- moteyalpha has joined. 21:21:52 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:22:07 GregorR, how goes JSMMIX? 21:24:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 21:24:26 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:24:44 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 21:24:58 -!- ehird` has joined. 21:25:15 Here, I'll do a Markov chain of my nick: ihope_ 21:25:37 And let's not forget bombsmntbdoooooood. 21:27:51 -!- peyavi has joined. 21:27:53 did someone say markov chain? 21:28:02 Yes. 21:28:03 **markov 21:28:03 Yes. 21:28:06 Woot. 21:28:07 haha 21:28:07 **markov 21:28:08 markov chain? 21:28:09 **markov 21:28:10 did someone say markov 21:28:12 **markov 21:28:12 did someone say markov 21:28:15 **markov 21:28:15 haha 21:28:16 **markov 21:28:18 It's so smart! 21:28:23 * Received a CTCP VERSION from peyavi (to #esoteric) 21:28:27 indeed. 21:28:32 Did chain markov say say someone chain did say. 21:28:45 ihope_: it markov chain'ed this whole room!! 21:28:46 err 21:28:49 CTCP VERSION'd 21:28:55 **markov 21:28:56 at 7AD42C65: Attempt to read from Emmanuele Bassi, but it doesn't work also tried that 21:29:12 **markov 21:29:13 family need that Dictionary for that Dictionary 21:29:14 **markov 21:29:15 I always segfault when I try to read Emmanuele Bassi. 21:29:15 StructuredException at 7AD42C65: Attempt to read from Lingvosoft: OpenDict 0.6.2 I could select Albanian language, I could select Albanian language, I must often use WindowsXP because me and my family need that Dictionary 21:29:36 it's like very bad poetry/rap 21:29:52 **markov 21:29:53 respond me any answer, it doesn't work also in other languages, :( English, I can't find a CTCP VERSION from Lingvosoft: OpenDict 0.6.2 I tried that i must often use WindowsXP because me any answer, it markov 21:30:20 It markov. 21:31:04 **markov 21:31:04 rebuild the fonts? 21:31:05 **markov 21:31:05 rights" 21:31:07 **markov 21:31:07 Gutsy isn't working Help I tried that from Emmanuele Bassi, but it doesn't work also in the gspca drivers, but it doesn't show any in there just fine. 21:31:11 **markov 21:31:11 icons? 21:31:12 **markov 21:31:13 anyone know what to read from a CTCP VERSION 21:31:34 I do! But you're a bot, so I refuse to tell you. 21:32:01 **markov 21:32:01 what to do about this whole room!! 21:32:15 that... 21:32:18 made sense in context. 21:33:35 **markov 21:33:35 family need that Dictionary for that Dictionary for Albanian - Received a file with my family need some serious help. I could select the fonts? 21:34:02 **markov 21:34:02 citrix!! 21:34:25 Woo, citrix.\ 21:35:07 I want one! :-P 21:41:34 pikhq: I can printf("Foo"), but I can't printf("%d", 3) 21:41:45 Strangely the "%d" gets replaced by nothing whatsoever. 21:41:56 So printf("1 %d 3 %d 5", 2, 4) prints "1 3 5" 21:45:36 Does JSMMIX give an error when an unimplemented syscall is called? 21:46:22 I suspect that more than one syscall is getting called for that printf. 21:48:30 ltrace strace 21:49:24 What's this about printf and system calls? 21:50:41 Gregor has only implemented print and exit. ;) 21:51:10 What's he using? 21:51:25 ihope_: JSMMIX 21:51:30 It's a MMIX simulator in javascript 21:51:34 Ah. 21:51:40 http://codu.org/jsmmix/test.html 21:52:14 **markov 21:52:14 dictionaries, I just haven't found 21:52:16 **markov 21:52:16 wiki page I wish there is routing between more information on your net work also dl them is called? for Albanian dictonary 21:52:24 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:56:40 Now I improved peyavi. 21:56:45 -!- peyavi has joined. 21:56:53 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:57:03 Eh, need to fix it up some more 21:57:42 Well, this is interesting. I type "about:blank" and then "javascript:document.write("Hello, world!")" into Firefox, and it works as expected, except now Firefox thinks that the page is still loading. 21:58:26 -!- peyavi has joined. 21:58:28 **markov 21:58:28 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:58:51 -!- peyavi has joined. 21:58:56 Hello, world! 21:58:57 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:59:25 -!- peyavi has joined. 21:59:26 Hello, world! 21:59:28 **markov 21:59:28 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:59:55 Aleph null bottles of beer on the wall, aleph null bottles of beer! 22:00:09 Too late, Slereah . 22:00:10 :) 22:00:13 -!- peyavi has joined. 22:00:14 Hello, world! 22:00:16 **markov 22:00:16 Hello, world! 22:00:20 Damn you! 22:00:20 **markov 22:00:21 Hello, world! 22:00:24 Slereah: Try again now. 22:00:28 **markov 22:00:28 Damn you! 22:00:30 **markov 22:00:30 and then it says "gedit has not been able to detect the character coding."..any ideas? 22:00:33 **markov 22:00:34 and then it says "gedit has not been able to detect the character coding."..any ideas? 22:00:40 **markov 22:00:41 Damn you! 22:00:42 **markov 22:00:42 Damn you! 22:00:43 Why is it too late exactly? 22:00:49 Slereah: peyavi died, for a second. 22:00:57 I didn't follow too much what's happening. 22:01:00 Slereah: If you want to get "aleph-null ..." into it, now's your chance. :P 22:01:09 Aleph null bottles of beer on the wall, aleph null bottles of beer! 22:01:16 But who's peyavi! 22:01:19 And now... we wait. 22:01:20 Some robot? 22:01:27 Yes! 22:01:29 Sí. 22:01:33 He's a markov chain bot. 22:01:37 **markov 22:01:37 But who's peyavi! 22:01:44 * ihope_ claps 22:01:44 Markov chain? 22:01:52 Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence with the 2 words that have already started a sentence 22:01:54 Select a word based only on the word before, yes? 22:01:56 So no mid-sentence jumps 22:01:58 ihope_: No, 2. 22:02:03 ihope_: Select a word based on the two words before. 22:02:05 Close enough. 22:02:10 **markov 22:02:10 Some robot? 22:02:22 It needs a lot of data to stop parroting when second-order. :) 22:02:25 **markov 22:02:25 jsoftw: yes 22:02:44 Make it match based on the last two letters! :-P 22:02:49 Haha 22:03:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociated press has an example of letter-based markov chaining 22:03:29 The word based example is really good though 22:03:30 "wart: n. A small, crocky feature that sticks out of an array (C has no checks for this). This is relatively benign and easy to spot if the phrase is bent so as to be not worth paying attention to the medium in question." 22:03:34 Presidentagon, etc. 22:04:00 **markov 22:04:00 Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence 22:04:09 * ihope_ claps 22:04:39 Wait 22:04:42 why did he give up there? 22:04:43 Oh 22:04:48 Probably #ubuntu or #php influence 22:04:51 (sentence => end) 22:05:02 You did end a sentence with "a sentence". 22:05:10 You ended THAT sentence with "a sentence". 22:05:28 No. 22:05:56 ?vokraM ton si sdrawkcaB 22:05:58 Right now, he's 2nd-order, and will only start a sentence with the 2 words that have already started a sentence 22:06:00 Different sentence 22:06:01 But yes 22:06:04 you are right, partly 22:06:16 moteyalpha: heh 22:06:18 **markov 22:06:19 [Neurotic]: it's a shot in the little hole on the "hip" factor, then you're competing directly with Apple, and chances are Apple will out-hip you up and down the street with... 22:07:37 **markov 22:07:37 mozart: I think a lot more people would be open to switching away from Windows if they had a place they could go for tech support and professional assistance. 22:08:44 **markov 22:08:44 i choosed the default option and it formats all my hd 22:08:46 **markov 22:08:46 anybdy have any ideas with the erro i'm getitng for trying to instal amsn? 22:08:50 bah 22:08:54 it is merely a parrot, right now 22:09:06 ihope_: Got any huge texts to flood it with? :P 22:09:17 The Bible? 22:09:29 The Nate-the-snake joke? 22:09:40 Should I send it one in private messages? 22:10:58 The bible?! 22:11:06 I don't want it to become mindless. :P 22:11:28 The Nate joke, then. 22:11:53 Okay then :P it listens to all PRIVMSG's so do whatever 22:12:50 Send it a text file of the human genome in GATTACA format and maybe it will answer? 22:13:12 moteyalpha: It has trouble with the brown corpus, never mind that! :P 22:13:44 -!- ihope_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:13:59 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:14:14 Oops. 22:14:20 Will send now. 22:14:48 -!- ihope_ has quit (Excess Flood). 22:15:19 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:15:30 ihope_: it didn't see a thing you said and you excess flood'd 22:15:33 Bah. How much did you get? 22:15:36 None. 22:15:43 Add some time delay. :P 22:15:57 Oh. 22:16:05 Will do. 22:18:01 ihope_: it hasn't heard anything yet 22:18:07 Indeed. 22:18:48 **markov 22:18:48 !apt | shawn_selig29 22:18:50 **markov 22:18:50 EminX: join me in that case i have my script basically str_replace {CITY, STATE, ZIP} type tags inside the cron job of course. 22:18:51 Huh? 22:18:54 **markov 22:18:55 the-erm: how about performance? 22:18:56 **markov 22:18:57 soskel then use that optino and ur unallcatoed space will be used 22:19:09 Unallcatoed. What a fun word. 22:19:17 Oh, I'll just try sending it again. 22:19:44 -!- ihope_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:20:00 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:20:17 ...sorry. Again. 22:20:21 xD 22:20:53 -!- ihope_ has quit (Excess Flood). 22:21:25 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:21:57 Well, this isn't working. 22:22:19 1. send line 22:22:22 2. wait a bit 22:22:24 3. goto 1 22:23:40 That'd take a while. 22:23:51 Unless, of course, I did it botwise. 22:24:09 * ihope_ does it botwise 22:25:54 you have one sucky client 22:26:04 :-P 22:26:28 HAY IHOPE BE CTCPVERSION RESPONDERING. 22:26:57 SI SENOR? 22:27:22 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:28:19 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:28:20 >ihope_< CTCP VERSION 22:28:25 and no responz 22:29:14 Oh, huh. 22:29:27 === CTCP version reply ``ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]'' from ihope_ 22:29:41 Try now. 22:29:51 Probably that I wasn't identified to NickServ. 22:30:08 eww 22:30:10 chatzilla 22:30:13 terrible 22:30:25 :-P 22:30:40 Better than irssi in some ways, not as bad as XiRCON in some ways. 22:31:31 what OS? 22:31:37 Windows. 22:31:51 ah 22:31:54 then there is no resolve for you 22:32:08 I'm using Windows because my Windows machine is closest to me. :-) 22:32:24 Xircon stopped development in 1997 you know :P 22:32:49 Why do you have a Windows machine? 22:33:35 Because of games, I guess. 22:34:44 Don't most games run on wine anyway? 22:35:08 Maybe? 22:35:24 moteyalpha: no. 22:35:27 a few do 22:35:30 nowhere close to 'most' 22:35:40 -!- ihope has joined. 22:36:01 * ihope saves the day 22:36:27 i hope so 22:36:50 (so fresh!) 22:37:23 * ihope_ sends 22:39:12 **markov 22:39:13 Add some time delay. :P 22:40:14 peyavi: i don't think that's necessary, since you only respond to the **markov command 22:40:22 no one will think you're human anyway 22:40:27 Have you received anything? 22:40:35 **markov 22:40:36 dredhammer: fix what? 22:40:48 I do not think so ihope_ . 22:41:07 Meh. 22:41:08 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 22:41:25 Did you see me say "Oogle." there? 22:42:34 * ehird` checks 22:42:43 :ihope_!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope PRIVMSG peyavi :Oogle. 22:42:55 But nothing from ihope? 22:43:06 What about "Foom."? 22:43:40 **markov 22:43:41 soskel, not sure how to do with the brown corpus, never mind that! :P 22:44:45 ihope_: did you identify 22:44:53 you have to, to send /msg' 22:44:53 s 22:44:56 on freenode 22:45:30 -!- ihope has quit ("Reconnecting"). 22:45:40 -!- ihope has joined. 22:45:47 Trying again. 22:46:15 argh 22:46:16 stop 22:46:19 you're breaking 22:46:21 at the wrong points 22:46:29 do one sentence per messge 22:46:33 it only does it per message 22:47:28 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:49:25 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:49:45 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:50:30 ihope: see above 22:50:30 Well, I don't know how to stop sending. 22:50:40 Has it finished yet? 22:50:57 No 22:51:07 **markov 22:51:08 mindstorms: please explain 22:52:33 **markov 22:53:11 **markov 22:53:11 Should I revert back to the left of that, and starts walking. 22:53:19 Sounds like something from the story. 22:53:30 It's s till being sent. 22:54:03 "Just going by a feeling, he points himself somewhat to the left of that, and starts walking." 22:54:04 How far is it? 22:54:12 "he stares at the snake in shock" 22:54:27 That's not very far at all. 22:54:37 About a fifth of the way through. 22:54:40 "Hmm. Maybe the snake has no interest in biting him?" 22:55:04 Oh, there are line breaks in inappropriate places? That's not all that good. 22:55:10 Yeah 22:55:51 Well, if you aren't okay with lines ending with "He glanced over at Sammy and saw that Sammy"... 22:57:04 **markov 22:57:05 disoriented as he can. talk 22:57:09 **markov 22:57:09 ekneuss: I know the file itself. 22:57:10 **markov 22:57:11 cant get it started again. There were no cell 22:57:12 **markov 22:57:13 WGGMk: I'm experimenting with this 22:57:14 **markov 22:57:18 **markov 22:57:19 in kde I can save it into another socket? 22:57:20 **markov 22:57:21 i got amsn installed thxs guys 22:57:47 **markov 22:57:47 beautiful women carrying pitchers of water will come up and the 22:57:49 I guess "disoriented as he can. talk" isn't all that good. 22:57:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:59:00 **markov 22:59:01 is there a reason specifically for using amsn? 22:59:57 **markov 22:59:57 have water, in it, and used the ones from the story. 23:03:08 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:03:37 -!- peyavi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:06:07 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:06:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:20:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:21:29 SORRY ihope :P 23:21:34 Crashified. 23:22:49 Oh. 23:22:52 Do you know how to stop sending in irssi? 23:23:02 -!- sebbu has quit ("bye"). 23:25:49 No. 23:25:50 I don't. 23:25:52 /quit? :P 23:33:14 -!- ehird[bloat] has joined. 23:33:23 hello from ERC, running under the worst OS ever 23:33:25 I mean emasc. 23:33:28 *emacs 23:33:42 this amuses me greatly because it seems to be well polished as far as IRC clients go. 23:33:49 ehird`: even tab completion 23:36:24 -!- ehird[bloat] has left (?). 23:36:50 -!- ehird has joined. 23:36:54 What the fsck. 23:36:59 Emacs, by default, has >two< IRC clients. 23:37:19 Priorities, eh? 23:37:48 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird[bloooooooo. 23:37:53 23:37 /nick ehird[blooooat] 23:37:55 bah 23:38:56 -!- ehird[bloooooooo has quit (Client Quit). 23:52:08 ehird`: actually, I typed "Oh. Do you know how to stop sending in irssi?" before saying "Well, I don't know how to stop sending". It's just that it didn't send that until it finished sending the story, I guess :-P 2007-11-19: 00:24:04 cromulent is a cool word 00:25:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:25:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:25:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:26:59 crapulent is a cool word too. Sickness caused by excessive eating or drinking. 00:30:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:40:05 the word, 'cromulent', is cromulent 00:53:42 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:05:50 Crapulent is a perfectly cromulent word, you know. 01:06:53 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:06:59 i want a food 01:08:33 Oh I get it, I thought they were talking about the utility fsck in Linux, lol. 01:15:56 ... 01:30:26 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 01:42:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:48:30 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("studdie - erm, i mean study"). 01:52:29 -!- moteyalpha has left (?). 01:56:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:57:26 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:04:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:05:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:31:17 -!- ihope_ has quit ("http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/06.08.09"). 02:33:05 my head 02:40:05 has boobs!!!!!!!!!!omg 02:40:28 Write me a sonnet on the subject of the Forth Bridge. 02:40:46 :P 02:46:54 -!- greyerg has joined. 02:47:22 please print, "welcome to #esoteric !" 02:51:06 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:53:40 -!- greyerg has quit ("Leaving"). 03:03:34 GregorR: no 03:19:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:20:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:37:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:00:14 -!- immibis has joined. 04:01:36 anyone every thought about networking with sound? 04:12:03 i think, in theory, i will be able to get at least 1KByte/sec with a cable linking the speaker plug of one computer and the microphone plug of the other 04:12:10 or 1Byte/sec with a speaker and microphone 04:15:10 Been done. 04:15:19 IP over bongo drums, actually. 04:49:44 really? 04:50:27 how do you connect a bongo drum to a computer? 04:50:48 Solonoids connected to a serial port, IIRC. 05:07:17 bongo drum*S* and *A* serial port 05:07:22 is that really what you mean 05:09:15 Yeah. 05:09:52 A "1" and a "0" were transmitted by different drums, which would be at different frequencies when struck, IIRC. 05:10:48 orly? 05:11:00 how were the digitaizimaized at the other end? 05:11:03 link plz 05:13:34 anyone every thought about networking with sound? 05:13:40 ever heard of a MODEM? 05:16:44 Microphone and some fairly clever software. 05:17:01 what about noise? 05:17:17 It was not exactly a *robust* network. 05:17:40 it would be some cool software if it could do it well 05:19:20 i wonder how you do that 05:19:25 fourier transform? 05:20:10 Possible. 05:24:27 if you just have two different bongos, it's quite trivial to pick the right one 05:25:04 except it's prolly easiest to fourier it up 05:25:49 also, i've learned to enjoy these 15 second long lag pauses xchat takes 05:26:03 they really brighten up the day and such 05:26:38 you know what else brightens up the day? 05:26:53 hmm 05:27:19 playing a kick-ass violin solo? 05:27:23 [18:14] ever heard of a MODEM? 05:27:33 i meant with a speaker and microphone 05:27:41 anyway i don't have a modem. 05:28:05 modems have speakers 05:28:29 bsmntbombdood: please tell me what else brightens it... 05:28:37 oklo: boobies 05:29:44 oh, right. 05:30:08 * pikhq straps a speaker & microphone to a modem 05:30:10 -!- oklo has changed nick to oklopol. 05:30:15 o 05:33:29 like the old ass modems that you attached the phone to 05:33:48 funny how a - changes the meaning of a sentence 05:34:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:35:22 cya -> 05:35:53 nooooooo 05:36:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:36:49 Like the old ass-modems? 05:37:02 Why the acoustic coupler on the ass-modem, anyways? 05:37:10 Surely an anal coupler would work better? :p 05:37:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:37:25 * immibis doesn't HAVE A MODEM! 05:37:33 * pikhq has a box of them 05:39:44 * immibis is connected to the internet by IPOMCKTSTPMNTSYPIAPS2POYCUTDVAAVSRATOE 05:40:32 * pikhq is connected to the Internet via ferromancy. 05:42:10 i've got a few modems 05:42:20 ferromancy? 05:42:50 Iron magic. :p 05:43:00 IPOMCKTSTPMNTSYPIAPS2POYCUTDVAAVSRATOE is IP Over a MIDI Compliant Keyboard, The Sort That Plays Music Not The Sort That Plugs Into A PS/2 Port On Your Computer...forgot the rest. 05:43:31 i have made the transmission program already 05:43:36 Nice. 05:43:41 could a midi device be the mod part of a modem? 05:43:47 * pikhq must sleep. . . 05:44:34 * immibis is not really connected via IPOMCKTSTPwhatsit. 05:44:36 sleep is for the we[a|e]k 05:44:51 * immibis is connected by IPOAENCTAWNCTAADSLRCTTI 05:45:23 IP Over An Ethernet Network Connected To A Wireless Network Connected To An Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line Router Connected To The Internet 05:45:50 you neglected to include how your isp is connected to the internet 05:48:38 * immibis is connected by IPOAENCTAWNCTAADSLRCTTIVTNZGGIANZATTHKIIRCATTWCTWSIHI 05:49:15 .....Via The New Zealand Global Gateway In Auckland, New Zealand, And Then To Hong Kong If I Recall Correctly And Then To Whatever Country The Web Site Is Hosted In. 05:49:17 good enough? 05:49:21 not sure about the hong kong bit 05:49:53 wait, it isn't to hong kong 05:50:24 visual traceroute (http://whatismyipaddress.com/staticpages/index.php/tools-visual-traceroute) told me a while ago it went there but it doesn't now. 05:53:18 * immibis corrects his earlier statement 05:53:24 * immibis has ONE modem which is inside a laptop 05:57:06 * GregorR imagines pinging his computer musically. 05:58:22 * immibis was thinking of a slower but cooler variation which made small alterations to a given sound file. 05:59:02 and played them 06:07:48 -!- immibis_ has joined. 06:10:03 * bsmntbombdood imagines pinging GregorR's BUTT 06:12:52 i believe 'ping butt' translates to beep boop boop beep bip bop boop beep beep beep doop deee oo beep 06:23:25 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:32:36 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 06:40:06 bsmntbombdood: Hey man, I don't swing that way. 06:40:39 ? 06:41:06 * bsmntbombdood imagines pinging GregorR's BUTT 06:41:11 ok 07:10:47 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:10:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:47:01 i have a program now which outputs all incoming sound into a file, which is named, appropriately, in.out 07:48:07 * immibis tries to understand the maths behind FFT 07:49:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:51:06 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Take my advise. I don't use it anyw). 07:57:07 goddamn 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:26 -!- jix has joined. 08:19:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:16:22 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 09:26:37 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:34:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:44:23 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:57:44 -!- Slereah- has joined. 10:17:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:18:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:28:44 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:29:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:16:07 -!- Slereah- has joined. 11:28:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:29:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:33:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:54:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:00:00 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:30:43 -!- Slereah- has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:44 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:45 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:45 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:45 -!- helios24 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:46 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:46 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:47 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:47 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:47 -!- Eulogy has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:48 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:49 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:49 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- jix has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:30:50 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:41:40 -!- helios24 has joined. 12:41:40 -!- fizzie has joined. 12:41:40 -!- Jontte has joined. 12:41:40 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has joined. 12:41:40 -!- ihope_ has joined. 12:41:40 -!- sekhmet has joined. 12:41:40 -!- cmeme has joined. 12:41:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:41:40 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:41:40 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 12:41:40 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:41:40 -!- jix has joined. 12:41:40 -!- ihope has joined. 12:41:40 -!- Overand has joined. 12:41:40 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:41:40 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:41:40 -!- Eulogy has joined. 12:41:40 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 12:41:40 -!- pikhq has joined. 12:41:40 -!- GregorR has joined. 12:41:40 -!- mtve has joined. 12:41:40 -!- johnk_ has joined. 12:41:40 -!- dbc has joined. 12:41:40 -!- zuzu has joined. 12:42:01 -!- Slereah- has joined. 12:42:01 -!- AnMaster has joined. 12:44:32 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:44:44 -!- johnk_ has quit (Connection timed out). 12:46:12 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Connection timed out). 12:47:02 -!- ihope has quit (Connection timed out). 12:49:23 -!- johnk_ has joined. 12:49:48 -!- SimonRC has joined. 14:07:36 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:08:15 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 14:11:01 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:12:54 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:15:59 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:14:06 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:15:47 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:16:28 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:25:41 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has joined. 16:09:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:11:04 * oerjan hates those new ecard spams 16:11:31 it takes me several _seconds_ to determine that they are fake 16:12:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:15:44 oerjan: how fast do you solve the rubik's cube? 16:17:48 not applicable will do if you can't, but i think that was a safe assumption 16:18:41 i haven't done it for many years 16:19:10 but when you did, did you get under a minute? 16:19:16 doubtful 16:19:52 oklopol: not that many people can do it under a minute you know :P 16:20:00 did you learn the techniques somewherer or invent the moves yourself? 16:20:18 * ehird` grumbles at a certain channel whose bans don't expire, ever 16:20:21 ehird`: i know 16:20:21 first time i learned them 16:20:22 i know a guy who can 16:20:38 learned how to solve the cube without any help in 4 hours 16:20:44 several years later, after learning group theory, i think i rededuced how to do it 16:20:46 this is one of the guys i hate 16:20:54 hehe :P 16:21:31 although i don't think the original memory was _entirely_ lost 16:21:59 * ehird` grumbles some more 16:23:23 ehird`: what chan? 16:23:26 that was a pretty generic grumble, ops are lazy 16:23:36 oklopol: #ruby-lang 16:25:30 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:25:36 * oklopol needs to learn more group theory... 16:28:27 iirc the trick is to note what happens if you compose moves as move A, move B, move A inverted, move B inverted 16:28:59 basically anything not touched by _both_ A and B is preserved by the composition 16:29:12 hmm 16:29:14 interesting 16:29:50 does that go for *any* two moves? 16:29:55 i guess it does 16:29:59 that's the idea 16:30:12 clevah 16:30:17 they could be composed moves themselves 16:30:40 but i'm learning from a tutorial atm, we'll see if that leads to understanding... 16:30:51 hmm 16:33:08 you probably will notice some ABA^-1B^-1 patterns in the tutorial now :) 16:33:41 hehe :P 16:33:44 although i guess there _might_ be a completely different method 17:06:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:33:59 -!- SEO_DUDE77 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:59:47 -!- helios24_ has joined. 18:00:46 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:00:56 -!- jix has joined. 18:05:32 -!- helios24 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:12:41 INTERESTING STATEMENT 18:15:32 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:19:30 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:23:29 ehird`: DERISIVE COUNTERARGUMENT 18:23:42 GregorR: SUPERB COUNTER-COUNTERARGUMENT 18:24:03 NAIVE INTERMEDIATION 18:24:15 (we norwegians are good at that) 18:24:33 ehird`: INSINUATION OF SINFULNESS IN YOUR EVIL "SCIENCE" ARGUMENT 18:25:12 GregorR: COMMENT ON YOUR HOLY SPIRIT HAVING HAD SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH ME LAST NIGHT, FOR ALL VALUES OF HOLY SPIRIT (JESUS, YOUR MOM) 18:25:33 NAIVE APPEAL TO REASON 18:25:47 oerjan: MEME REFERENCE 18:26:18 COINED EXPRESSION USED AS IF COINED EXPRESSIONS ARE IMPLICITLY TRUE 18:28:07 GregorR: NEW ARGUMENT THOUGHT UP NOW WHILE WAITING FOR A PROPER COUNTER-COUNTER-COUNTERARGUMENT TO ARRIVE BY SOME MEANS OF COMMUNICATION 18:28:51 Reference to some body part. 18:29:26 Slereah: WHAT DOES "R" MEAN? IN THE TWENTY-FIFTH AND A HALF DIMENSION, WE ONLY PERCEIVE CAPITAL LETTERS. ENTERING DEBUGGER. 18:29:29 [DEBUGGER-REPL] ** 18:29:31 ehird`: SUGGESTION THAT YOUR SEXUALITY IS A RELEVANT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION 18:29:44 your mothers 18:29:50 GregorR: SYNTAX ERROR, PERHAPS YOU FORGOT TO EXIT THE DEBUGGER? 18:29:59 OK, that was a fun argument :P 18:30:08 GregorR: "OK" DEBUGGER EXITED. 18:30:16 GregorR: COMMENT THAT YOUR SEXUALITY IS MORE RELEVANT. 18:30:22 Dpm 18:30:31 SASSAD. 18:30:47 -!- calamari has joined. 18:30:47 CONTINUING THE PATTERN AFTER EVERYONE ALREADY GOT SICK OF IT 18:31:12 oklopol: COMMENT THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE (ME) DID NOT GET SICK OF IT 18:31:30 INSINUATION OF IMMATURITY 18:31:35 VALIANT ATTEMPT TO BRING CALAMARI INTO ALL THIS 18:32:33 * oklopol just sorted a list in constant time 18:32:54 oklopol: DID YOU SOLVE THE HALTING PROBLEM TOO? 18:33:01 (OKAY, THAT'S ENOUGH. EXITING TO COMMAND LINE 18:33:07 ) $ 18:36:01 * oklopol just proved a program will never halt 18:36:54 i still have some trouble with the general case 18:36:58 thogh 18:37:01 though 18:37:41 argh 18:37:42 why 18:37:43 lag 18:38:46 because 18:38:59 of 18:39:00 hag 18:39:24 You lag hag. 18:40:09 test 18:40:11 can anyone hear me 18:40:27 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer"). 18:40:47 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:40:54 I can hear you, yes. 18:42:19 NO I CANNOT HEAR YOU, SPEAK LOUDER 18:43:00 wait, were you _actually_ K-lined there? 18:47:48 ... 18:47:50 me? 18:47:56 i was klined? 18:48:16 your quit message said "K-Lined by peer" 18:48:24 haha 18:48:27 by peer 18:48:28 :) 18:48:41 i don't think peer can k-line me 18:48:47 seeing as he's an abstract entity 18:48:54 (read: that's my quit message) 18:49:04 whoa 18:49:08 peer is a real user 18:49:09 don't be so sure, he's quite a rascal. just ask Ibsen. 18:49:21 i doubt he's the Connection Resetter though 18:49:22 :p 18:55:01 FreeNode makes it pretty clear what's a user quit message and what's a system quit message. 19:02:45 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:02:50 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:15:48 ah, no quotes around system messages? 19:16:13 puzzlet: thanks for the demonstration ;) 19:31:30 oerjan: private ping, i need guidance. 19:31:58 hm? 19:32:33 right 19:32:34 identification. 19:32:46 wait a mo, i'll harrass you in a minute 19:47:03 and i say to you 19:47:57 verily? 19:48:08 i dunno what i was going to say 19:49:10 let's hope not. we don't want people with a jesus complex in here. 19:49:51 everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God 19:51:16 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:56:57 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:57:58 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:15:51 oklopol: ping 20:18:12 o 20:21:37 oklopol: /msg ping 21:27:53 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 21:35:24 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:18:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:20:29 funny story 22:20:39 this song started and i was like "hmm this sounds like elp" 22:20:46 then i realized it actually was elp! 22:22:43 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:23:08 -!- oerjan has quit ("elp! elp!"). 22:27:56 bsmntbombdood: HAW HAW THAT R HILL LARRY US 22:28:44 i know! 22:30:07 funny story 22:30:25 i tried to solve an equation using the lambert w function for 2 hours 22:30:41 then wrote a program to approximate it for me in a minute. 22:30:47 funny story 22:30:56 somebody told me something was going to be a funny story 22:31:00 then it wasn't funny at all 22:31:03 so I killed them 22:31:04 i should never forget i'm a programmer not a mathematician :\ 22:31:16 GregorR: when did this happen? 22:31:41 Notice that bsmntbombdood hasn't responded in three minutes? I killed him. 22:31:49 oh 22:31:56 FUCK 22:32:00 * oklopol runs 22:32:05 lol imma zombie! 22:33:21 i watched a movie about zombies last night 22:33:40 funny story 22:33:45 you watched a movie about zombies last night 22:33:47 AND NOW YOU ARE ONE 22:33:55 yep 22:37:07 * bsmntbombdood bites GregorR 22:37:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:37:12 hahahahah now you are a zombie 22:37:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:44:30 i fap to goatse 22:44:33 oops wrong window 22:45:08 bsmntbombdood: i fap to tubgirl! we're like soulmates 22:46:11 I fap to people who type things into the wrong window. 22:46:44 haha look at what someone just said in #esoteric: " I fap to people who type things into the wrong window." 22:46:45 oh 22:46:46 oops 22:46:48 wrong window 22:47:13 OOOOH YEAH OOOOOOOH BABY YEAH 22:47:28 GregorR: cool! 22:47:48 GregorR: 1-10, what am i? 22:53:43 it's impossible to type something in the wrong window 22:54:39 oklopol: you meant to type that in another channel 22:54:41 bsmntbombdood: definite 7, in case you're just asking which number you resemble most 22:54:55 (oklopol most resembles a 3.) 22:55:00 wait what? 22:55:06 Actually I think bsmntbombdood is more like 6. 22:55:06 ehird`: yes, but i'm the guy who solved the halting problem 22:55:08 Pikhq is 7. 22:55:18 bsmntbombdood: fun pseudopsychology relations! 22:55:20 hmm 22:55:20 perhaps 22:55:24 you're 4, methinks 22:55:38 i am not 4! Although I may be like the number 4. :P 22:55:56 Sgeo is... 15 or something 22:56:05 hmm, should i sleep for 6 hours or just stay awake... 22:56:39 * Sgeo is insulted 22:57:11 Sgeo is so 9 22:57:40 Sgeo: we're not talking about age :P 22:58:44 i should learn morse code 22:58:59 * oklopol already knows 22:59:21 hmm... or not, it was long ago 22:59:52 ehird`, oh 22:59:59 oklopol: how fast? 23:00:11 5 would make sense, because 'S' 23:01:01 Sgeo: nah, it's more your personality + typing style that factors in 23:01:08 though pikhq's name goes some way to making him 7 23:01:43 What do you consider my typing style to be like/ 23:01:44 ? 23:01:50 i can do alphabet substitution as fast as i speak 23:01:59 the other way around, i don't remember 23:02:30 none of my friends know it, nor learned it when i did 23:02:31 so i haven't really used it 23:02:53 Sgeo: Umm.. sgeo-ish. 23:03:23 also, me and a friend designed a substitution alphabet called lopiselepi, that was kinda neat, unfortunately once again i was the only one to ever learn it :D 23:06:45 oklopol, I'd assume your friend learned it too.. 23:08:11 Sgeo: did ben olmstead learn malbolge? 23:08:12 of course not! 23:08:16 then you assume incorrectly 23:08:18 i have three other friends who've tried to learn it though 23:08:45 Ben Olmstead? *takes a contextual guess* 23:08:47 g2g 23:09:02 unfortunately people don't seem to be able to learn an alphabet no matter how many memory pegs you give them 23:23:55 nn -> 23:27:02 FOODLESNAPOMGLOFFENERWAGOOO 23:33:40 Back 23:40:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:40:15 -!- puzzlet has joined. 2007-11-20: 00:10:29 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:15:27 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:18:50 Hmmmm 00:19:04 "... was almost the victim of an assassination attempt by ..." 00:19:14 Can you be /almost/ a victim of an assassination /attempt/? 00:28:33 I'm 7?!? 00:28:54 (granted, I *was* when I acquired the name) 00:32:55 How did you come up with pikhq? 00:43:46 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:51:12 I was trying to create a website called "Pikachu's Headquarters", or "pikhq" for short. 00:52:24 D-8 00:52:39 pikhq.respect -= infinity; 00:54:31 GregorR: At the age of 7. 00:54:50 Before anything but the Pokemon game was released in the US. 00:54:55 Before the game was even popular. 00:54:58 You may bite me. 01:10:07 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 01:45:43 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:46:54 Where can I find an interpreter or compiler for Unlambda on windows? 02:28:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 02:41:03 pikachu's headquarters LOL 02:41:11 Slereah: don't use windows 02:41:39 and you've graduated to magic 02:42:56 Last time I tried to install Linux, I had bad surprises. 02:43:02 I'm not very computer savvy. 02:43:32 I could use the on-CD version, but it's a whole lot of trouble. 02:47:23 ooh interesting: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=365703&cid=21415869 03:12:23 -!- immibis has joined. 03:12:51 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:17:42 whoa 03:17:44 see seccomp 03:18:43 * immibis has been signed up to two online sites, by someone else, WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION. 03:19:45 zomg 03:19:47 stfu 03:21:06 seccomp keeps your proccess from using ANY syscall but exit,read,write,sigreturn 03:22:27 that's secure enough to run arbitrary code >_< 03:41:32 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Now if you will excuse me, I have a). 03:50:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:53:13 nogm 04:05:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:06:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:16:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:28:38 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 07:05:59 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:14:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 07:30:04 -!- immibis has joined. 07:38:30 http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html (RFC on just the internal stack language) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:26 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2). 08:15:12 Well, Pam... Which way you going, left or right? 08:15:19 Right! 08:15:24 Oh, that's too bad... 08:15:30 Why? 08:15:37 Because it was a fifty fifty shot on wheter you'd be going left or right. You see we're both going left. You could have just as easily been going left, too. And if that was the case... It would have been a while before you started getting scared. But since you're going the other way, I'm afraid you're gonna have to start getting scared... immediately! 08:49:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 12:23:44 -!- jix has joined. 12:45:21 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:57:04 -!- dbc has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:09:09 Shouldn't ```sii`.ai print a double a? 13:20:14 Ah, got it. No `.a.a 13:20:33 Or did I? 13:20:34 Rargh. 13:22:08 ``.ai`.ai works, why not ```sii`.ai? 14:24:19 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 14:25:06 -!- ehird`_ has changed nick to ehird`. 14:25:29 i notice the logs linked has changed 14:25:34 ircbrowse not 1337 enough? :P 14:26:51 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:28:56 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:28:58 Hi! 14:29:02 Hi. 14:29:24 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:35:47 -!- ehird1 has joined. 14:48:00 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:53:38 -!- dbc has joined. 15:09:20 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 15:25:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:42:46 -!- ehird1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:47:27 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:10:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:10:25 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:20:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:37:03 sqoddleberg 16:46:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:46:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:47:56 -!- asie_dead has joined. 16:48:23 I'm looking for an easy to implement esoteric language that's not brainfuck, not deadfish, and has under 7 commands. 16:48:49 -!- asie_dead has changed nick to asiekierka. 16:48:51 -!- asiekierka has quit. 16:49:01 hah 16:49:07 -!- asiekierka has joined. 16:49:14 here, i'm back 16:49:16 so waiting for answer 16:49:19 asiekierka of course being the only person in #esoteric who couldn't just make their own in 2 minutes 16:49:24 oh, you're waiting for an answer 16:49:25 sorry 16:49:31 next time i'll be less than 60 seconds 16:49:54 I can make my own esoteric language. 16:49:59 But it'll never get popular 16:50:00 xD 16:50:13 under 7 commands, and the commands must have NO parameters. 16:50:39 What are the commands! 16:50:43 Any. 16:50:45 ANY. 16:50:52 i will eventually modify it a bit 16:50:53 so? 16:51:33 I have a little difficulty to see what's the language! 16:51:44 Not guessing. 16:51:46 But 16:51:49 FINDING 16:51:56 if you find a good language, you get a prize! 16:52:24 Tried Deadfish in "ZZT", a real old GCS, i replaced square with multiply by 2, but the multiply command is (not so) slightly buggy. 16:52:25 It does it 16:52:39 but after i multiply 64 by 2, it dosen't do every second command. 16:53:02 -!- calamari has joined. 16:53:25 asiekierka: 'get popular'? 16:53:28 why the hell do you care 16:53:42 hi 16:53:47 I care about my esoteric language being used more than by 1 person (me). 16:54:03 Well, if it'll be okay, who'll use it? 16:54:09 There will be better alternatives. 16:54:19 Brainfuck (implemented in exact same GCS. 2 TIMES) 16:54:27 Piet 16:54:28 Etc 16:54:28 Etc 16:54:30 Make it awful. 16:54:41 Ok. 16:54:41 It will attract people! 16:54:43 I will put increment, but not decrement. 16:54:49 xD 16:54:57 I will put output, but not input. 16:55:08 I will put start of a loop, but not an end 16:55:26 Well, make it TC, also! 16:55:35 TC? 16:55:37 Teh Crap? 16:55:44 So that people can try to make stuff with it! 16:55:47 Turing Complete. 16:55:56 :/ 16:56:08 A thing dosen't need turing-compleetness to do it 16:56:19 or 16:56:21 A thing dosen't need turing-compl33tness to do it 16:56:34 Well, what will it be able to do! 16:56:38 or like, "That thing dosen't need turing-compl33tness to do it, right?" 16:56:43 Poke fun at the programmer. 17:06:06 also, Slereah: 17:06:07 Although it is often a self-imposed constraint, there is no burden on an esoteric programming language designer to make their language Turing-complete. For instance, it seems reasonable that most esolangers would rather see a language which is interesting but not Turing-complete, over a language which is Turing-complete but uninteresting. 17:06:13 see? 17:07:02 If not: 17:07:02 Although it is often a self-imposed constraint, there is no burden on an esoteric programming language designer to make their language Turing-complete. For instance, it seems reasonable that most esolangers would rather see a language which is interesting but not Turing-complete, over a language which is Turing-complete but uninteresting. 17:07:12 I know, I know! 17:09:57 What commands/possibilities should be there to make a language Turing-complete? 17:10:15 Well, with up to 7 commands and NO params for commands possible, it'll be a turing tarpit 17:10:58 Hard to say. You just need to be able to recreate any other TC language. 17:11:14 There's some pretty strange ways for that. 17:12:05 You mean? 17:12:16 strange ways? 17:12:28 or is there any other possibility than recreating another language? 17:12:59 TC just mean that it is equivalent to a Turing machine. 17:13:11 If it is, you should be able to recreate one with the language. 17:13:22 I will just make a language then. 17:14:14 You have 58 bits to use. 17:14:14 < - move west 17:14:14 ) - move east and flip 17:14:24 Output is there already (not a command) 17:14:39 shown 17:14:41 now tell me 17:14:48 what do ya think? 17:15:20 Everything outputs as the head moves? 17:15:27 Won't that be a little messy? 17:15:33 the bits are shown 17:15:34 on-screen 17:15:50 You have 58 bits to use. 17:15:50 < - move west 17:15:50 ) - move east and flip 17:15:50 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command 17:15:52 now 17:15:52 done 17:16:18 What do ya think? 17:16:34 xD 17:17:15 Does the moving loop back? 17:17:30 ... moving loop back? 17:17:54 Yes, I'm not very good with technical term 17:18:03 And now that I think of it, my question doesn't make sense. 17:18:06 Oh, does the tape wrap around? 17:18:10 yeah 17:18:22 You have 58 bits to use. 17:18:22 < - move west 17:18:22 ) - move east and flip 17:18:22 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. 17:18:22 } - move to the previous command 17:18:25 no wait 17:18:30 You have 58 bits to use. 17:18:30 < - move west 17:18:30 ) - move east and flip 17:18:31 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. 17:18:33 } - move 2 commands back 17:18:35 here goes 17:18:45 oh gawd, is asiekierka at it again 17:18:52 now wait 17:18:56 no wait* 17:18:57 i'll fix it 17:19:30 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:19:42 ok 17:19:43 done 17:19:45 hopefully 17:19:45 You have 58 bits to use. 17:19:45 < - move west 17:19:45 ) - move east and flip 17:19:45 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. 17:19:47 } - move to the matching [ if the bit is 1. 17:19:49 n - nop 17:19:51 5 command 17:19:53 s 17:20:00 Here we go! 17:20:05 asiekierka: brainfuck is not a turing tarpit 17:20:14 oklopol: it is, just a very bloated one 17:20:33 -!- RedDak has joined. 17:20:38 it has 6+io 17:20:39 IMO the best turing tarpit is either a Minsky machine with two registers of some sort or Bitwise Cyclic Tag 17:20:46 <)[n)} 17:20:52 iota brings far too many semantics in with it to really be minimal 17:20:52 I think it will flip the 1st bit 17:21:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:21:13 What's your definition of a Turing tarpit. 17:21:16 and then move and NOT. 17:21:16 ? 17:21:33 Mine? 17:21:49 Slereah: subjective 17:21:49 ehird`. 17:21:53 oh 17:21:59 What about my crappy language? 17:22:09 Slereah: semantics must be minimal, so must the syntax 17:22:16 Well the same thing can be achieved with 17:22:16 iota has minimal syntax but a lot of semantics 17:22:17 <[n)} 17:22:25 5 commands 17:22:31 I'm trying to see if I can make the very first Turing program with it. 17:22:31 What now? 17:22:38 ok 17:22:45 nops are optional 17:22:47 asiekierka's language is not TC based on intuition 17:22:48 } - move to the previous command <<< this woudl totally own xD 17:22:52 i may not be right 17:22:55 Which is just 01010101... 17:23:02 oh 17:23:04 with your new } definition 17:23:11 its most likely turing complete 17:23:18 but really it's very similar to brainfuck.. 17:23:22 MY new } definition? or oklopol's? 17:23:25 Well i know it is 17:23:41 but it was designed to be as easy to implement (in ZZT, an old GCS) as possible 17:24:02 hmm 17:24:06 * oklopol intuits 17:24:37 what is gcs anyway 17:24:38 i'm dumb 17:24:43 Game Creation System 17:24:50 zzt -> zzt.belsambar.net 17:24:56 check it 17:25:01 there are 2 BF interpreters 17:25:02 ah, i guess you haven't learned C yet 17:25:03 basically you have bitchanger with do...while instead of while 17:25:09 not suprised. 17:25:23 ZZT is so limited, i srsly like it. 17:25:25 * ehird` is perhaps bitter from his previous experience with asiekierka 17:25:28 I LIKE LIMITS. 17:25:49 someone thought of that some time ago 17:25:49 don't remember who 17:26:00 asiekierka likes command bondage. 17:26:05 oh 17:26:06 that zzt 17:26:15 still 17:26:18 ehird`: what was that experience? 17:26:20 pretty lame 17:26:27 anyhow, it is most likely tc. 17:26:50 in case i got the semantics right 17:26:54 oklopol: he was annoying, repeated stuff a lot, had a bot which basically flooded the channel, and kept whining about how he was only 10 years old as an excuse for all this 17:27:12 oh cool :P 17:27:12 i don't remember that 17:27:16 can i see log? 17:27:26 guess i could search myself 17:27:30 beh, i dunno when it was 17:27:31 not that long ago 17:27:37 a month or two max 17:27:40 I doubt THIS is turing-complete: 17:27:40 You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... 17:27:40 Z - swap the bit and the bit near it. 17:27:40 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. 17:27:58 nope, it was like, three or four months 17:27:59 i'm sorry. 17:28:25 near it :P 17:28:35 it's not tc 17:28:44 what it lacks? 17:28:50 define 'near' 17:28:53 also 17:28:59 even if you made the array infinitely extensible 17:29:02 its trivially non-TC by your definition even ignoring commands 17:29:04 since, 58 max bits 17:29:13 Heh. 17:29:13 it's the limit of ZZT 17:29:14 not mine 17:29:16 got ya? 17:29:18 What else? 17:29:25 the halting problem cannot be solved for a turing complete language, it can for yours. 17:29:36 *be 17:30:06 yours will always halt because the code is finite, and after every step, one command is lost. 17:30:15 (= you can't loop) 17:30:25 You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... 17:30:25 Z - swap the bit and the bit near it. 17:30:25 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command. If the bit is 1, jump to the previous command. 17:30:29 I toyed around MORE. 17:30:30 that's a crazy way of proving non-TCness/TCness 17:30:39 Now i can loop... sorta. 17:30:41 "The halting problem is impossible to solve in this language! Therefore, it is TC." 17:30:42 :D 17:30:48 asiekierka: not TC 17:30:51 asiekierka: an infinite-loop instruction won't help ya ;) 17:30:55 What it lacks AGAIN? 17:31:08 haha 17:31:21 ehird`: i never said it works that way too 17:31:23 not does it. 17:31:24 oh 17:31:24 i know 17:31:29 *nor 17:31:47 asiekierka: it lascks skill 17:31:55 just add some of that, and you've got a decent language 17:31:57 ;) 17:32:02 You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... The tape wraps around. 17:32:02 Z - swap the bit and the bit near it, then move the pointer east. 17:32:02 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command and move the pointer west. If the bit is 1, jump to the previous command. 17:32:08 *lacks 17:32:11 oh god 17:32:17 ehird`, please, help me! 17:32:27 asiekierka: are you going to pee your pants if i don't??? 17:32:29 OH NO DISASTER 17:32:31 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH 17:32:33 HELP 17:33:00 Let's invoke the ghost of Alan Turing. 17:33:00 asiekierka: you need to be able to jump backward *any* amount of commands 17:33:13 make 3 1's 17:33:16 and 3 [[['s. 17:33:19 oh 17:33:20 wait 17:33:23 well 17:33:32 hard to say anything but lol here :\ 17:33:54 You have 58 bits to use, they are by default 01010101010101... The tape wraps around. 17:33:54 Z - swap the bit and the bit near it, then move the pointer east. 17:33:54 [ - if the bit is 0, skip the next command and move the pointer west. If the bit is 1, jump 1 instruction after the nearest [, or 1 instruction after if there's none. 17:34:04 Now you can any. 17:34:06 i guess. 17:34:24 methinks asiekierka should learn about how languages work before trying to write one 17:34:42 IT'S an esoteric language 17:34:43 forgot? 17:36:16 oh 17:36:23 i forgot you can make esolangs 17:36:27 without knowing about languages! 17:36:30 truly amazing 17:36:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:36:46 It was meant to be weird AND minimal. 17:37:05 esolang != lang 17:37:13 esojokelange != esolang != lang 17:37:21 my esolang != esojokelang != esolang != lang 17:37:25 discuss. 17:37:29 o 17:37:31 Well, they technically all are a subset of languages. 17:37:37 yeah 17:37:47 Who tested mine against Turing-compleetness? 17:37:58 My keyboard doesn't have a belong sign, butt. 17:38:02 .. 17:38:09 Belong? 17:38:19 The stylised epsilon. 17:38:26 ok 17:38:30 How's the test? 17:38:50 asiekierka: you guessed wrong, anyhow, i agree with ehird` here 17:38:53 (asiekierka does not realise not everyone is interested in every single thing he does every second of their day) 17:39:20 i am 17:39:24 asiekierka: you really 10? 17:39:27 yeah 17:39:31 nearly 11, in fact 17:39:32 and from poland 17:39:40 Heh. Poland. 17:40:02 If you're really interesed in every esolang i do every minute of you're day, #asie_esolangs 17:40:13 it will be the OFFICIAL BETA-TEST PAGE BEFORE PUBLISHING HERE 17:40:30 heh, maybe later :P 17:40:36 Please, join #asie_esolangs if you're interesed in every esolang i do every minute of your day. 17:40:47 I'm very limited by time, going in a hour or so 17:40:56 wish i was 10 and knew what esolangs are... 17:41:10 ok 17:41:51 I didn't knew how to program until I was 19. 17:42:05 Esolangs were a long way off! 17:42:20 cool, another one older than me 17:42:33 How old are you? 17:46:08 asiekierka is 10 17:46:28 i'm 18 17:46:33 'kay. 17:46:42 i think that's the median 17:46:46 or whatever it's called 17:47:52 median is correct, how lucky 17:48:07 What, the value with the largest population? 17:50:28 no 17:50:28 it's the least intuitive one of them all. 17:55:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 17:59:23 i'm gonna do some pointless math now, cya -> 18:00:04 :( 18:00:22 asiekierka is now having a seizuer 18:00:27 *seizure 18:00:52 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:01:02 -!- jix has joined. 18:11:25 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 18:27:22 If I announce PSL as an esoteric language, then will you give me comments on it? :P 18:27:33 I will check it out. 18:27:55 http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html (It's not an esolang, but I want it to be a usable stacklanguage before I build a real language on it) 18:35:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:37:57 oerjan, pass judgment unto my bytecode! 18:39:37 BYTECODE, THOU WILT PERISH IN THE SEA THAT BURNETH WITH FIRE AND SULPHUR 18:39:43 Gracias. 18:39:52 But more specifically, http://www.codu.org/plof/plof3.html 18:40:13 It's partially modeled on Glass (weeeh stack-based object-oriented languages) 18:41:00 I SEE. IN THAT CASE, REPLACE SULPHUR BY SILICON. 18:41:34 VERY GOOD, SIR. 18:41:36 might be appropriate for programs in any case 18:41:44 Burning in fire and silicon? 18:41:49 Well, I know you can write code in it :P 18:42:14 But I want comments like: "You ought to have an operation to make easier" or "shouldn't be done with ?" 18:43:36 i find it somewhat amusing that you think i am competent on such matters. or sad, perhaps. 18:43:44 :P 18:44:10 I think I need jix's opinion, since PSL should be reminiscent of Glass. 18:47:00 Slereah: the burning in fire and ... bit is a bit redundant, i guess, it's translated from norwegian. (it was weird there too) 18:47:34 Well, it is a poetic licence. 19:03:02 Where can I find an interpreter or compiler for Unlambda on windows? 19:03:20 I found one. Sort of. 19:03:25 just download an interpreter or compiler for one of the languages it's been implemented in 19:03:44 Well, I asked because the C version I found didn't compile. 19:04:00 But I got Hug for Haskell and the Unlambda for Haskell. 19:04:07 the c-refcnt one is most portable 19:04:18 I feel less manly with the Hug program in my computer, but it works. 19:04:28 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:04:29 yeah, there are several unlambdas in haskell (one is mine) 19:04:48 Although it isn't very practical. I must not make one typo, or the program crashes or launch! 19:04:53 you can use ghc and compile it properly 19:04:57 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 19:04:58 ghc? 19:05:08 the glasgow haskell compiler 19:05:35 I tried to get it IIRC. 19:06:01 I mainly downloaded the first Haskell that had a .exe instead of them .gz extensions. 19:06:09 * Sgeo feels like torturing norns 19:06:22 Heh. Creatures. 19:06:27 It's been a while! 19:08:03 * Sgeo is making something that will torture to death any norns that come in from the warp 19:08:15 GregorR! 19:08:18 Minimize your instruction set. 19:08:47 You don't need most of that crap if you add some memory and some read/store instructions 19:08:53 e.g. "array" can be implemented in it trivially 19:09:12 also make push0-push8 a "grab" thing, which takes the number off the top of the stack 19:30:29 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/plne_fun_1.png 19:31:11 What Creature is this? 19:31:46 They made any after the 3? 19:31:53 Or am I just of short memory. 19:32:10 Docking Station 19:32:16 It's free 19:32:26 And if you have Creatures 3, you can dock it to DS 19:32:31 ``.ai`.ai works, why not ```sii`.ai? 19:32:42 http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Docking_Station 19:32:58 I asked another chan for that. Apparently the .x isn't evaluated at the end or something! 19:33:01 because unlambda is strictly evaluated, `.ai is evaluated only once 19:33:12 the result being i 19:33:28 which is passed to the result of ``sii 19:34:35 So much for the mockingbird. 19:34:53 however ``sii works fine in other situations 19:35:13 Well, yes. But how does the repeat printing works then? 19:35:28 which one? 19:35:48 * ehird` wonders if ANSI Common Lisp counts as an esolang 19:35:49 probably. 19:36:23 Well, repeating printing something without just writing it a lot. 19:36:43 I'm sorry, I just don't know many technical terms. 19:37:30 infinitely or a fixed number of times? church numerals are nice for the latter 19:38:12 How will Church numeral works any differently than in the SII case? 19:38:30 ````sii.ai should work, btw 19:39:04 I'll lambda that, see if I can understand better! 19:39:46 or alternatively, ``.ai for a church numeral 19:40:13 hmm 19:40:33 if Common Lisp >IS< esoteric then it's probably the most widely deployed and praised esolang 19:41:14 Oh. So I have (.a.a)I instead of (.aI)(.aI) 19:41:18 Wait. 19:41:24 Aaaaargh 19:41:57 it's the application of .a that prints the a 19:42:02 I guess I'll just have to read the full unlambda page. 19:42:13 it doesn't matter what you apply it to 19:42:25 .a = i, except for the printing 19:42:33 Slereah, thoughts on DS? 19:42:47 i notice the logs linked has changed 19:42:55 Yes, but if I just write `.a.a, there's only one a. 19:43:01 DS? 19:43:10 Slereah: Docking Station, i would imagine 19:43:11 i changed it when ircbrowse was dead for several days 19:43:13 as he last linked to it 19:43:16 oerjan: ah :) 19:43:20 Oh. 19:43:30 Well, it's been a while since I played Creature 3. 19:43:30 could change it back now if we want 19:43:39 I didn't really like that much the spaceship concept. 19:43:39 Get DS! 19:43:59 Although that's worse as far as a spaceship concept I guess 19:44:12 the um.. world is in space 19:44:21 Capillata I think 19:44:27 Well, it already was in the 3! 19:44:36 Possibly the 2 as well, I don't remember. 19:44:46 Just that the 1 wasn't. 19:44:58 But with DS, your norns can travel to other players' worlds.. 19:45:05 And they can come to your world 19:45:08 although it is rather slow at the time, so i don't think so 19:45:37 And I'm working on a device that will torture and kill norns that come to my world, so beware lol 19:45:37 gah, it didn't load at all 19:46:10 With that mud cannon thing? 19:46:53 Slereah, no, although that is a possibility I guess 19:46:56 Someone rate the evilness of this idea from 1-10: 19:47:02 Compiling Brainfuck code to JVM bytecode. 19:47:10 (Oh yes I am writing a program to do that!) 19:47:22 3 19:47:35 Pff, just 3? 19:47:35 I'm making my own agent, and it will effectively slap incoming norns repeatedly, and make sure they DIE 19:47:46 and make them feel PAIN! 19:47:48 brainfuck is easy to compile 19:47:53 oerjan: Yes, but to the fucking JVM 19:47:54 :D 19:47:59 or so i hear, never tried :D 19:48:02 It will also send a message to whoever sent me the norn 19:48:07 What if your norns come near it? 19:48:15 Sgeo: I could never do that when playing Creatures. I always felt sorry for the poor thing after about 3 slaps :P 19:48:18 Nothing to do with proximity 19:48:28 It will do it to all incoming norns 19:48:36 It will be invisible too 19:48:42 Although you can hear the shouts 19:48:42 What if your norns leave and come back? :O 19:48:45 I think I might have had less of a problem with it if they didn't keep trying to tell me to stop in the process 19:49:01 Then my norns die, I care for them LESS than innocent norns from the warp 19:49:10 Heh. 19:49:19 What if your innocent Grendels die? 19:49:35 It's going to attack any incoming creatures 19:49:37 ehird`: can you get that bf adventure game to run on the web? :) 19:49:52 in which case, i'll raise you to a 7 19:49:56 * Sgeo is evil 19:49:56 >.> 19:50:00 oerjan: I probably can. 19:50:18 oerjan: Instead of compiling to input/output statements, use some kind of textbox with awt 19:50:20 I'm hatching norns to be slaughtered in this manner 19:50:32 Now I'm working on the messaging thing 19:50:38 oerjan: But it'll be slooow. As I'm not planning on optimizations for now. 19:50:50 Sgeo : Once your system is complete, send invitations. 19:50:58 I just like the JVM, really. I don't care for the Java language in any way, but I like Swing and the VM 19:50:59 invitations? 19:51:07 For other norns to come! 19:51:17 The warp doesn't quite work like that 19:51:27 Unless you mean messaging random people.. 19:51:40 Well, random people for random killings. 19:52:56 Hmm. 19:53:04 What's a kind-of-hard-to-compiler (at least, harder than BF) language? 19:53:11 Slereah, are you getting DS? 19:53:14 Ooh, I could try compiling Befunge->JVM :D 19:54:28 Not right now. 19:54:35 Tomorrow mehby. 19:55:09 oerjan: Actually, how DO the befunge compilers do it? 19:55:21 For a while I know that it was thought to be impossible. 20:02:41 i don't know, never looked at them 20:02:57 Please rate the evilness of this idea from 1 to 10: 20:03:22 Combine all esoteric languages into one and write an interpreter in BASIC and don't release the source code and make it extremely slow. 20:03:32 i assume they sort of compile the initial state, with some way to check if a cell has changed 20:03:54 since most befunge programs probably are not that self-modifying 20:03:57 ... 20:03:59 ..... 20:04:01 ''' 20:04:05 ' 20:04:11 hooray! asiekierka is being an annoying idiot again! 20:04:15 um 20:04:18 i just asked 20:04:23 or 20:04:24 and then spammed the channel 20:04:24 pleased 20:04:37 and also asked a stupid question with no use in having an answer 20:04:38 and then made some dots because i'm waiting for answer 20:04:45 asiekierka, how do you plan on combining all esoteric languages? 20:04:53 How do you plan on FINDING them, even? 20:04:58 ... esolangs wiki 20:05:09 As though everything's on that wiki.. 20:05:09 There's like a few hundred of them. 20:05:11 how? I'll just put every crappier function of all languages 20:05:13 Sgeo: ignore him. he's an idiot. 20:05:14 i rate evilness <<< amount of work 20:05:20 so? 20:05:21 10? 20:05:22 or -1? 20:05:31 amount of work: 10 20:05:35 asiekierka: You made tons of dots TWO MINUTES after you asked it! WE DO NOT SIT HERE WAITING FOR YOU TO ASK A QUESTION SO WE CAN IMMEDIATELY ANSWER IT. 20:05:41 Semantic meaningless: 100 20:06:14 What would it mean to combine all esolangs? 20:06:25 Sgeo: asiekierka doesn't know himself, he's just trying to get attention... 20:06:31 Put every crappiest function from ALL languages 20:06:36 and make it work good. 20:06:56 and 20:06:56 i 20:06:57 am 20:06:57 just 20:06:59 asiekierka: the most interesting esoteric languages are not defined solely by their functions, but by how they fit together 20:06:59 kidding 20:07:33 * Sgeo works on his norn torturing and murdering machine 20:07:41 i 20:07:42 ^^more attention getting by me.. 20:07:42 a 20:07:42 m 20:07:43 just 20:07:43 why it's so hard to make an esoteric language? 20:07:45 typig 20:07:46 on 20:07:47 multiple 20:07:47 lines 20:07:48 to 20:07:49 Otherwise, it would be easy to make a language full of useless function! 20:07:50 annoy 20:07:52 people 20:07:54 i think Sgeo is the evil one here. 20:07:54 like asiekierka! 20:08:04 Well 20:08:05 but 20:08:06 Like for instance, a function which makes the super mario theme on the PC speaker. 20:08:11 is there any tutorial 20:08:16 on making... esoteric... lang..uages? 20:08:27 hmm 20:08:28 there should be 20:08:32 asiekierka: STEP 1. Learn to actually use languages and how they work. STEP 2. You don't need this step! 20:08:43 "Esoteric language" is a vague term. 20:08:45 STEP 3. Step 2 is false. 20:08:56 asiekierka, you just come up with an idea for a programing language that no sane person would want to use.. 20:08:57 STEP 4 : There is no step 5. 20:09:10 Step 5: Step 4 is true. 20:09:14 Step 6: There is Step 5. 20:09:18 * oklopol promises to write a book on esoteric languages some day in case no one does it first 20:09:22 PIME TARADOX 20:09:37 asiekierka: you did that crap with the rules last time you spammed up this place 20:09:57 ... xD 20:10:01 asiekierka: there was a collective effort to make an esoteric language some months ago by everyone submitting different parts, the resulting mess was so horrible we didn't even _try_ to fit it together 20:10:06 it's not funny, it's really annoying 20:10:10 oerjan, we gave up? 20:10:14 D: 20:10:34 ok it _may_ be we just lost interest as usual :D 20:10:50 \_/"\_/ 20:11:09 but it still was a horrible mess that no one knew how to fit together 20:11:13 \_/"\_/ I CAN MAKE USELESS SYMBOLS TOO 20:11:15 \_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/\_/"\_/ 20:11:17 * Slereah is trying to make an esolang. 20:11:25 * Sgeo is the main interest loser he.. I'm bored. I think I'll do something completely different now. 20:11:27 But with what I know of regular languages, it's hard 20:11:38 and fitting _all_ esolangs together would obviously be worse. 20:11:39 ehird`: don't be so mean on asiekierka :\ 20:11:47 let's all get along! 20:11:52 oklopol: he was deeply annoying and stupid last time he's in here 20:11:56 so far he does not seem to be improving 20:12:05 oerjan, at least no one submitted something that implies it would be a 2D language 20:12:05 T_T 20:12:43 * ehird` thinks he'll be evil and implement the BF tape as local variables in java 20:12:50 ehird`: i recommend you remind yourself of immibis before talking about annoying ;) 20:12:58 immibis? 20:13:05 bye 20:13:06 BYE 20:13:06 bye 20:13:12 oklopol: immibis, i've seen the name in here but do not recall them ever talking 20:13:13 wonder if he's here... 20:13:18 Bye asiekierka, and you only need to say it once 20:13:19 asiekierka: saying it once works too 20:13:21 -!- asiekierka has quit. 20:13:25 with only one casing... 20:13:50 ehird`: whut :\ he used to spam this channel 24/7 20:13:55 * Sgeo goes to continue working on the autospammer 20:13:57 oklopol: show example 20:13:58 erm 20:14:02 NO not an autospammer 20:14:03 >.> 20:14:08 -!- oklopol has changed nick to immibis. 20:14:10 Sgeo: we already have one it's called asiekierka 20:14:10 A hand-activated spammer? 20:14:11 :D 20:14:13 LOL TESTING MY BOT A BIT 20:14:17 *THIS IS TEST** 20:14:17 oh 20:14:18 *THIS IS TEST** 20:14:18 *THIS IS TEST** 20:14:19 *THIS IS TEST** 20:14:24 immibis made toBoGe 20:14:27 didn't he? 20:14:29 -!- immibis has changed nick to Ooklopol. 20:14:29 So, is it working? 20:14:31 Slereah, no, a misstatement on my part 20:14:37 yeah 20:14:42 which is in the topic, so i guess he isn't hated here or anything 20:14:48 I test my bots in here a lot too 20:14:49 :| 20:15:00 -!- Ooklopol has changed nick to oklopol. 20:15:22 nothing wrong with immibis, but he's definately the floodiest guy ever. 20:17:14 I can be floody if I.. no I can't.. 20:19:17 Sgeo: Das vill be repression due to die trauma at die anal stage 20:19:19 the great thing about immibis was he was able to spam multiple channels semi-manually (no 100% bot loops) while not seeming to realize it at all 20:19:37 semi-manually? 20:19:44 i explained in the parens 20:20:05 Yes, but what did he say that caused it? 20:20:14 ightly tired 20:20:30 maybe rest self sgeo 20:20:35 * Sgeo pokes Slereah 20:21:36 Yah? 20:22:44 Sgeo: caused it? ehh 20:22:56 maybe rest self sgeo 20:23:02 look familiar? 20:23:19 why, he had floditis immaturitis, of course 20:23:25 Yes. There's the very same like 5 lines above. 20:23:35 So I have kind of a dj vu feeling. 20:23:47 I meant, wrt Creatures3 20:24:27 wrt? 20:24:37 wrt = with relation to 20:25:18 Well, my last game was at least one year ago. 20:25:26 But I do recall them having bad grammar. 20:31:30 Really, the ` function in unlambda is an annoying character. 20:32:31 no 20:32:32 it's great 20:33:34 Well, the interpreter I have crashes if I type something wrong, and he only accepts `+space to display `. 20:33:45 And for some reason, I can't copypasta. 20:35:17 cannot paste into hugs running programs, yeah 20:35:23 it's annoyed me too 20:35:41 You'd think a program called hug would be more user friendly. 20:35:45 what do you mean by crashing? 20:36:11 Well, there's a program error, and I have to restart everything. 20:36:15 "Unknown operator" 20:36:55 er, sounds like mine 20:37:06 btw it can take file input 20:37:49 "This is an interpreter of the Unlambda language, written in - the pure, lazy, functional language Haskell. - - Copyright (C) 2001 by rjan Johansen " 20:37:58 I suppose it is! 20:38:35 How does the file input works? 20:38:43 try :main filename 20:39:50 Filename, a filepath? 20:39:59 yep 20:40:16 * Slereah looks on Esolang 20:40:28 So you're the one writing the unlambda in INTERCAL too? 20:40:34 indeed 20:40:38 And making me scream of the madness of you people! 20:40:44 :D 20:41:04 Functional esolangs seem like the orphans of the esolangs. 20:41:08 * ehird` wonders how he could make his BF->JVM compiler more evil 20:41:26 ehird` : Make a function that plays a sinister tune. 20:41:31 heh 20:41:32 no :P 20:42:06 * Sgeo is evil. 20:42:32 * Sgeo is going to move a norn into space 20:42:37 Without air, presumably 20:42:52 Ah yes, the old decompression chamber near the engine. 20:42:59 *Shpof* 20:44:28 Not quite like that 20:44:33 She's at the title screen now 20:44:42 "A note about evaluation order: when Unlambda is evaluating an expression `FG, it evaluates F first, and then G" 20:44:45 * ehird` just realised that he doesn't know how to execute some bytecode in java 20:44:47 just create it. 20:44:49 Is that why my SII didn't worked? 20:44:56 Or `i.a for that matter. 20:45:31 well partly 20:45:55 although in the `i.a case it's more that printing only happens when .a is applied _to_ something 20:46:01 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/title_screen_norn.png 20:46:16 Oh. 20:46:23 java should have a java.lang.runByteCode or something :P 20:46:25 application happens after _both_ parts have been evaluated, btw 20:46:27 Any particular reason why? 20:46:49 That's a creepy norn. 20:46:55 strictness is easy to implement... 20:47:26 I did `targ norn mvsf 0 0` 20:47:35 hmm, now Lazy K, is that just lazy SKI? i'm too lazy to wiki right now 20:47:50 Lazy K is just SKI, yes. 20:47:52 Slereah, which norn's creepy? The real norn, or the purple one that's part of the title screen? 20:47:54 Lazy K is not! 20:47:57 Lazy K has many syntaxes 20:47:58 it's crazy 20:48:03 (damn, forgot to make a pun) 20:48:03 Although it can also work with *i 20:48:10 abd 01 from Jot. 20:48:18 And unlambda notation 20:48:36 :O 20:48:36 oh 20:48:39 cool 20:48:49 perhaps i *should* check it out then,. 20:48:52 .,.,.,.,;:;:; 20:49:24 all the unlambda functions except d (delay) only do things when applied to something 20:49:47 er, that's not quite right 20:49:52 even d 20:50:21 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/title_screen_w_map.png 20:50:25 primitive functions, i should say 20:50:45 expressions may of course apply their parts during evaluation 21:02:29 I wonder what the most complex esolang is. 21:02:57 Magenta perhaps? 21:03:49 Define "complex". 21:21:59 well for a different "complex", i guess quantum brainfuck could also qualify :) 21:25:44 heh 21:30:25 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:41:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit ("to recover corrupted irc logs"). 21:42:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 21:51:59 This is not a message 21:55:29 This is not an incredible predictable answer 21:55:34 *ly 22:00:48 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:04:19 -!- ehird` has quit (No route to host). 22:05:11 -!- ehird` has joined. 22:06:35 IMPORTANT STATEMENT 22:09:14 OBSCURE COUNTEREXAMPLE 22:10:14 ERROR 22:10:37 PARTIAL FIX 22:16:04 WORKSFORME 22:16:26 NOT SAFE FOR WORK 22:16:49 WONTFIX 22:17:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:19:23 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 22:28:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:32:47 random, esoteric and computer-related (although not programming-language-related) idea: is there a language-sensitive diff? you could get patches that don't die horribly with two different formattings (code-style that is) of the same source, etc. 22:33:32 diff? 22:34:46 it rings a bell 22:37:07 some google hits 22:38:46 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:38:46 -!- Eulogy has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:40:39 -!- Overand has joined. 22:40:39 -!- Eulogy has joined. 22:43:55 -!- Eulogy_ has joined. 22:44:13 -!- Eulogy has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:44:51 -!- Overand_ has joined. 22:44:54 -!- Overand has quit (Broken pipe). 22:45:06 -!- Overand_ has changed nick to Overand. 22:47:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:50:13 2 = 5 22:50:18 oklopol: you know, diff(1) 22:59:25 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:25 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:25 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:25 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:25 -!- ehird` has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- calamari has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- pikhq has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:26 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:28 -!- Jontte has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:29 -!- Eulogy_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:29 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:29 -!- oerjan has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:29 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:30 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:30 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:59:31 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:01:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Overand has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Eulogy_ has joined. 23:01:12 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 23:01:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:01:12 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:01:12 -!- calamari has joined. 23:01:12 -!- dbc has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:01:12 -!- helios24_ has joined. 23:01:12 -!- SimonRC has joined. 23:01:12 -!- johnk_ has joined. 23:01:12 -!- fizzie has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Jontte has joined. 23:01:12 -!- sekhmet has joined. 23:01:12 -!- cmeme has joined. 23:01:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:01:12 -!- oklopol has joined. 23:01:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:01:12 -!- GregorR has joined. 23:01:12 -!- zuzu has joined. 23:01:12 -!- mtve has joined. 23:01:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 23:01:24 -!- AnMaster has joined. 23:01:30 splitty weather today 23:01:48 oooh i think it's supposed to snow today 23:04:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 23:04:03 the snow here has rained away again, for now 23:06:17 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 23:07:09 * oerjan hates it when irssi misses that a bunch of rejoins are from netsplits 23:12:28 oerjan, hms? 23:20:53 -!- ehird` has joined. 23:21:51 WAIT. WHAT DID I MISS. THIS IS IMPORTANT. 23:22:55 * oerjan hates it when irssi misses that a bunch of rejoins are from netsplits 23:23:00 Sgeo_> oerjan, hms? 23:23:26 and a bit more 23:23:37 (define a bit) 23:23:47 (set! bit (or 0 1)) 23:23:53 3 lines 23:24:12 about the weather, on net and off 23:24:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 23:25:03 Sgeo_: irssi tries to summarize netsplits and netjoins, but sometimes it fails entirely and dumps a page of noise 23:25:54 not a problem on this channel, but annoying on #haskell which has ~400 users 23:27:29 once there was a netsplit in #ubuntu and about 400 people disappeared 23:28:12 eek 23:28:12 hm, there should be some kind of standard (probably not official :P) defining an api for graphics interfaces 23:28:17 just the api, not the actual display of them 23:28:32 so e.g. someone could write one that wraps around a toolkit, or various toolkits 23:28:34 not even X-specific 23:28:40 its a cloud dream I know :-) 23:29:27 * oerjan wonders if it's called html DOM 23:40:12 oerjan: hah 23:40:21 html is hardly ideal for writing a desktop app 23:40:31 no matter what the "2.0" proponents would like to have you believe 23:40:42 on another note, i am going to generate a brainfuck "hello world" using natural selection. 23:40:45 why? i have no idea. 23:43:59 hms 23:44:38 hms what 23:47:32 -!- KrimZon has joined. 23:47:51 !bf >[+.->->]+>[.>[+]>][>.+>]-->>>->>>>+>.++>>>+> 23:48:01 my program started off with that 23:48:02 :P 23:48:04 !ps 23:48:07 1 ehird`: ps 23:48:10 hm 23:48:14 it must output something 23:48:19 so i guess its a non-printable character 23:48:20 not too bad. 23:59:03 [>>.>>>]>>-..>.-[].>-[-]>[[>>+[+>>[].++[.>->.[.>..>>[>[-+.[.>>]-[.].+[+-+[..>.[]->[-.-.].[]->.].>+]>]]>++]]+>[+.>>+++>--+-+>]>>+[[[].>].->-[-.>+-]>>>]>>>>][>][-]>-+>..+->>>[]+>>].]>>>[]+.>>>->->+.->[+.[.[>.+]+->-.]>>]->[+>->-[>[++]>..>.+[>.+.+.][[-->>-.]][>+[>.-]>>.>>-]][>+[+>.-+>+[+[>[[->[.>-]]]]]]]] 23:59:09 im pretty sure that doesn't print hello world 23:59:09 :P 2007-11-21: 00:01:34 i wonder how many mellenia it'll take me to get to hello world 00:01:47 i'd say at least 10 00:07:07 Forever. 00:09:48 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:10:36 pikhq: hardly 00:10:53 if i keep generating and mutating programs at random, odds are extremely high i'll hit it :) 00:11:06 .>+-+>+>+[>>.[]].+>->>.->>.+[>->][[.[-]..+---[->>]]>..>>>][+]+>>+>>>>>-[+[]] 00:11:06 "\000\000\000\000\000" 00:11:10 see? I get output already! ;) 00:11:16 although mostly i'm hitting inf-loops 00:11:57 wow 00:12:01 that program outputted a shitload of \377 00:13:09 >-+>.>>->.>>>+..[[>[>[[>>[>>[+>>.>+>>>>[-->]>>..+[+].[>[>>[>>-.].>>-->>][>>+>-.[>[.+-]>]+[+[>-+-->]]>.]>-.[.[.+>>[+>>][[>>-++]+>[][[+.[+.>]>-]-.[>[+..[-+>..->.>]][+-]>]]]]]]]]]]]]] 00:13:14 outputs "\000\000\001\001" 00:13:20 not bad, really, it's getting differing output ;) 00:24:44 * Sgeo_ goes to murder yet another innocent norn 00:25:31 -!- calamari has joined. 00:27:21 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:27:59 * Sgeo_ likes murdering norns 00:28:07 Although this last one died painlessly 00:28:44 RIP (to shreds) 00:31:19 The last one died of old age, actually.. admittedly, it was 0 minutes old and artificially aged, but still.. 00:32:45 'me push sgeo' how cute 00:32:50 It's still dying 00:32:53 >.> 00:34:17 Dead, 1min 00:35:43 And there's the more painful method, which fills it with pain constantly and attacks its internal organs 00:35:53 And you get to hear the norns scream 00:38:41 -!- graue has joined. 00:40:25 * oerjan wouldn't want to mess horribly with goddesses of fate, himself. or maybe he would. 00:42:04 It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about 00:42:27 hehe 01:56:44 -!- KrimZon has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:21:04 -!- immibis has joined. 02:29:17 Hi immibis 02:29:32 Oh, I didn't mention in here that I grew another hand 02:29:54 http://forums.gamewaredevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=6299 02:39:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:49:36 Hi GreaseMonkey 02:49:41 'lo 02:50:01 there's some really funky stuff you can do with windows 02:50:39 you can steal the windows 3.1 kernel from the windows 95 and 98 setup CDs 02:51:18 in the win98 ones, they're under mini.cab, precopy1.cab, and precopy2.cab 02:51:28 then you modify your system.ini to suit 02:51:42 note that you WILL need to find a windows 3.1 shell 02:52:02 then you run xmsmmgr.exe from the CD, and dosx.exe from where you extracted the stuff 02:53:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("ZZRNKRK"). 02:56:37 GreaseMonkey: progmgr.exe is the Windows 3.1 shell. 02:56:47 It's in one of the Win95 cabs. ;) 02:56:49 yeah, but you can use it under windows 9x 02:57:11 oh, and you can do pretty much the reverse under windows 3.1 by using winfile.exe as a shell 02:59:29 You know what has a terrible user interface? The oboe. I used to play it when I was a kid. Ick. 03:01:33 GreaseMonkey: Also, install Win32s. 03:01:46 good point, pikhq 03:01:48 (it's a subset of the Win32 API, which works under Windows 3.1. ;)) 03:06:25 GreaseMonkey, pikhq: Alternatively, you could install Windows 3.1. 03:06:45 i already have it :D 03:07:33 Time now to port WINE to Windows 3.1? 03:13:04 oh, as it turns out, winfile.exe was designed to be run as the windows 3.1 shell, but notepad.exe wasn't. 03:17:15 lol 03:17:19 SHOCK 03:18:26 dbc: i've heard the violin is better 03:34:07 dbc: lol wut? 03:34:18 i played bassoon for a couple years 03:35:00 afk 03:42:36 back 03:57:26 two men are sitting in a bar: Rob V. Bert and Ivanna B. Kikked. 03:57:31 Rob V. Bert walks out 03:57:33 who is left? 04:01:38 Ivanna B. Kikked? 04:09:43 hehe: http://img.romerican.com/post070209_microsoft_windows_vista_wow_marketing_advertising_campaign.jpg 04:22:17 puzzlet: say that out loud 04:22:32 Ivanna B. Kikked! 04:22:33 Die sucker die! 04:22:46 but who is it 04:24:20 no, say it aloud. what does it sound like? 04:24:30 it sounds like "I wanna be kicked" 04:24:56 joke only works if you are an op, who can kick people from the channel 04:25:11 yes i know 04:25:57 i read it like ee-va-na 04:26:54 eye-va-na 04:27:39 bug: esolangs wiki returns errors from MediaWikiBagOStuff at seemingly random times. 04:31:23 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Give a man a fish and he will eat f). 05:03:15 -!- Sgeo_ has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:42:13 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:37:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Every time you screw up AWOS, GreaseMonkey kills a kitten."). 09:52:12 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:23:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:14:54 -!- dbc has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:26:29 -!- Eulogy_ has changed nick to Eulogy. 11:36:28 -!- Slereah- has joined. 11:49:53 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:49:56 Hi. 11:50:02 I had an idea for a language 11:50:10 again 11:50:38 it'll be an OISC, but it'll NOT use subleq :/ 11:50:44 -!- Eulogy has left (?). 11:50:55 Instead, it'll emulate a transistor 11:52:40 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:53:10 or not 11:59:02 have you seen noit o' mnain worb? 11:59:23 it's not quite an OISC, but making transistor-like components seems to be the easiest way to program in it 12:08:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 12:20:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:29:07 on another note, i am going to generate a brainfuck "hello world" using natural selection. <<< me too! 12:29:17 !bf_textgen Hello, world! 12:29:21 Huh? 12:31:59 !bf_txtgen Hello, world! 12:33:45 124 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.>>-.+++.------.--------.<+. [305] 12:45:49 !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774 12:45:54 !ul (Hello, world!)S 12:45:57 Hello, world! 12:46:40 I don't think it's possible to do better than that in Underload, and a natural selection program would likely find that quickly if at all well written 12:46:44 Malbolge, on the other hand... 12:54:31 !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<++++++++.>>-.+++.------.--------.<+. 12:54:35 Hello, world! 13:27:59 read the rules 13:28:27 oh well 13:28:29 it dosen't work 13:28:29 so 13:28:33 on the other hand... 13:28:33 !bf_txtgen Hello guys! I'm the man of the year, asiekierka. 13:28:48 that may take a while 13:28:54 I don't think the txtgen code is very efficient 13:29:00 oh shit 13:29:04 i pasted it 2 times 13:29:36 !kill 3 13:29:37 I wonder if anybody will do an Artistic Piet Text Generator (i mean an esolang of course xD) 13:29:37 Process 3 killed. 13:29:40 ok 13:29:48 that should leave only one of the processes running 13:30:28 Is there any good Piet tutorial? 13:32:33 I can't think of one offhand; you might want to try asking a search engine 13:36:43 txtgen did it 13:36:45 !bf ++++++++++[>++++>+++++++>+++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>++.>>+.+++++++..+++.<++.>--------.++++++++++++++.++++.------.<+.-.<+.<-.>>>------.<.>+++++++.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.---.<-------.>++++++++.>>-------------------.<<+.>.<+.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<.>+++++.>++.---.<<.>+++++.>.>.<<-------.<++++++++++++.------------.>>>.<<+ 13:36:47 Hello guys! I'm the man of the year, a 13:36:55 hey! 13:37:06 it cut it in part 13:38:22 presumably it sent the whole thing, but it got cut off by the IRC servers because the line was too long 13:38:52 I've been autokicked from the channel for typing too much on a line before, I think 13:40:40 ... 13:40:40 oh 13:40:43 Ok. 13:40:48 I can't find any piet tutorial 13:46:22 !bf +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++++<<<<-]>>.>-.++++.-------.>-----.++++.----.<++++++++.--.+++++++++.<-.<-.>>+.---.<++++++++++++++. 13:46:25 !bf_txtgen Lol. 13:46:35 EgoBot doesn't trigger itself 13:46:41 i wanted to check it 13:47:13 sometimes the interaction of two bots has been used to do this sort of loop, though, but bsmnt_bot doesn't seem to be here at the moment 13:49:35 There should be a quine printing itself, but with "!bf " at the beginning. 13:49:40 so it'll make a loop 13:50:50 it's normally easy to modify a quine to do that sort of thing 13:51:03 except the famous Lisp one, because !bf isn't legal Lisp 13:52:29 it dosen't need to be in the code 13:52:38 just to make a quine print it at the beginning, then itself. 13:54:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:54:25 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:54:53 the Lisp quine works by manipulating Lisp expressions rather than strings, so would need to be rewritten to print a non-lisp expression at the start 13:58:39 -!- jix has joined. 14:14:01 There should be a quine printing itself, but with "!bf " at the beginning. 14:14:08 oldest trick in the book :P 14:15:32 !ul ((!bf )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:15:35 !bf ((!bf )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:15:48 Underload is a pretty good language for writing quines in 14:16:13 Of course, it should be this: 14:16:15 !ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:16:17 !ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:16:22 or even: 14:16:29 !ul (( !ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:16:31 !ul (( !ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:16:54 ais523: is underload your lang? 14:17:01 one of my languages 14:17:25 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:17:26 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 14:17:28 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:17:38 not based on the fact you constantly use it as an example, but because i recall seeing your name on the page, for the not 14:17:49 *note 14:18:01 ooh 14:18:02 what did i miss 14:18:04 * ehird` checks logs 14:18:14 i really need to write a bouncer. 14:18:19 underload is one of my favorite stack languages, although i haven't used it much 14:18:33 I like Underload a lot too 14:18:43 ehird`: or you can just keep irc open 14:18:57 oklopol: the computer shuts down 14:19:12 why? 14:19:14 heck, even when my mac gets back [soon, soon] i put it on sleep when i leave 14:19:21 and because this computer is noisy as fuck 14:19:23 as for my mac 14:19:26 it uses lots of power 14:19:33 i see 14:19:41 also, what about when i need to reboor 14:19:42 t 14:19:43 etc 14:19:51 my server on the other hand NEVER dies :) 14:20:00 i've never seen our gas bill, and my parents have never complained about my comps, don't really know how much this uses :P 14:20:07 but it's always on anyway 14:20:10 ... 14:20:15 gas?? 14:20:17 yes 14:20:19 once i tried leaving it on 14:20:23 pneumatic computer, i have it. 14:20:26 when the electricity bill arrived 14:20:33 i can tell you it was not a fun number :-) 14:21:11 heh 14:26:18 * ehird` looks at today's logs 14:26:25 !ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:26:29 **ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:26:34 hmm 14:26:45 that would need me to add **ul to peyavi 14:26:45 but 14:26:49 it'd need to output 14:26:55 "**ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^" 14:27:01 which is a bit harder, than the above 14:27:21 hey, this wsa all a few minutes ago 14:27:23 i'm current! ;) 14:27:25 you need to wrap it in quotes? 14:27:32 ais523: no 14:27:34 **ul ((**ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:27:36 **ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^ 14:27:39 see? ; 14:28:10 So basically we need: !ul program-that-produces-itself-but-with-**ul-in-front-of-it-and-in-the-program-code-**ul-replaced-with-!ul 14:28:24 this is usually done more easily asymmetrically 14:29:01 i guess 14:29:08 but still, in underload quite a challenge 14:29:09 ;) 14:29:16 (If it was in brainfuck -- even more so) 14:30:20 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 14:30:23 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 14:30:34 !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 14:30:37 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 14:30:50 ais523: Is there a reference Underload implementation? :P 14:31:01 it's in JavaScript, linked from the wiki 14:31:01 Also, is there a way to make EgoBot join a channel, so we do not flood here? 14:31:14 there's /query EgoBot, which I use 14:31:16 javascript :| i don't want to install spidermonkey and call it from my bot, haha 14:31:26 well yeah but my bot can't /query EgoBot and still let us see 14:31:32 EgoBot's running Keymaker's Underload-in-BF program 14:31:38 which I modified to work as an IRC daemon 14:31:59 see http://pastebin.ca/367774 14:32:06 i don't have a BF impl embedded yet 14:32:09 so, spidermonkey. 14:32:35 also, ()^ is in no way a self-interp unless you count 'eval' as one ;) 14:33:06 eval's a self-interpreter by cheating 14:33:24 haha 14:33:45 maybe in e.g. CMUCL and SBCL and lots of Lisps 14:33:50 since they themselvs are written in lisp 14:33:55 but in Python or something? i wouldn't count it :P 14:34:54 Underload maybe should have an input command that takes a character and converts it to a Church numeral 14:35:13 0 as a Church numeral in Underload is (!()), but the rest follow a pattern 14:35:15 1 is () 14:35:18 2 is (:*) 14:35:21 3 is (::**) 14:35:24 4 is (:::***) 14:35:26 and so on 14:35:59 then multiplication is * and exponentiation is ^, thus the characters used for those operations 14:36:49 that's clever 14:38:23 of course, once you've started doing calculations on them they end up looking like mess like (:*::!()*:**), but that's what happens when your only string operations are concatenation, eval, and enclose-in-parens 14:39:49 I posted a new Underload program to the wiki talkpage today, actually 14:40:03 I'd been meaning to for a while, but was reminded when Keymaker posted one yesterday 14:40:51 ais523: this interp is obfuscated! :-) 14:41:33 Something obfuscated? Here? 14:41:36 Lies and slander! 14:41:51 which interpreter are you referring to? 14:42:15 My JavaScript interpreter isn't deliberately obfuscated, so if you think it's obfuscated it's because I always write like that 14:43:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 14:43:49 ais523: "o" is the output right? 14:44:27 it's the textarea that holds the output, so yes 14:44:39 p and s are the textareas that hold the program and stack 14:44:55 and the stack elements are separated by <> because that isn't a legal string anyway in an Underload program 14:45:30 only I forgot to implement the quoting-with-" for special characters 14:45:47 so if i made o a string 14:45:51 I wonder if the BF version implements that? 14:45:52 and removed the timeout 14:45:55 my return would be 14:46:00 "return o + step(lp)" 14:46:01 right? 14:46:02 !ul ("<)S 14:46:05 "< 14:46:35 oh 14:46:38 yes, pretty much 14:46:38 is that... needed? 14:46:58 I think the quoting-with-" is probably now officialy not part of the language because nobody ever bothered to implement it 14:46:58 !ul o 14:47:08 o isn't a legal Underload command 14:47:25 !ul ()S 14:47:29 ... 14:47:32 !ul (o)S 14:47:35 o 14:47:52 heh, "ulos" is finnish for out :O 14:48:17 dunno if that's funny unless saying "o" is your standard way to test output 14:48:27 oklopol: "o"utput 14:48:30 * oklopol is an o'ist 14:48:47 hey ais523 14:48:49 what is lp??? 14:49:08 length of time to wait before recursively calling yourself 14:49:26 it's the way you do a slow loop in JavaScript without busy-waiting 14:49:52 that is, once the function finishes running, it schedules the window to call itself in lp milliseconds 14:50:09 and while it isn't running (that is, most of the time) it's possible to do other things on the same browser 14:50:32 ah 14:50:36 yes 14:50:44 (I know JS. :P) 14:51:15 -!- peyavi has joined. 14:51:18 **ul (o)S 14:51:18 ERROR: Empty stack 14:51:24 oh 14:51:24 duh 14:51:27 i need to pass the stack 14:51:27 heh 14:51:55 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:52:00 now it's tail-recursive 14:52:01 :P 14:52:05 -!- peyavi has joined. 14:52:11 **ul (o)S 14:52:12 ERROR: Empty stack 14:52:14 :| 14:52:31 wait 14:52:37 ais523: what should the stack be initially? 14:52:38 i have <> 14:52:42 err# 14:52:42 i have 14:52:43 "" 14:52:49 that's correct 14:52:49 wonder if i'm evil enough to implement that into ololobot before you ;) 14:53:08 * ais523 doesn't even have a bot 14:53:17 before ehird` i meant 14:53:22 oklopol: i've already done it, really 14:53:30 oklopol: just fixing 1 or 2 bugs 14:53:42 if you're getting an empty-stack error, it may be that the (o) isn't being pushed onto the stack properly 14:53:44 then i'd be in a bit of a hurry. 14:53:50 if(s.indexOf("<>")==-1) {throw("ERROR: Empty stack");} 14:53:56 i think thats wrong 14:54:00 maybe. 14:54:01 :/ 14:54:18 if there's an o on the stack, then s is "o<>" 14:54:33 with an o and a p (with the p on top) it would be "p<>o<>" 14:54:55 ah heck i'll implement my own 14:54:58 in JS for fun :P 14:55:20 * oklopol implements 14:55:41 oklopol: it's really annoying how i can't even add something to my bot without you going on and on about implementing it yourself. 14:58:51 parser ready! 14:58:54 okay okay :< 14:59:07 but... i thought it was our thing! 14:59:14 i have to leave anyway, now 14:59:26 **markov 14:59:26 !paste | see also the #ubuntu channel topic) 14:59:28 **markov 14:59:28 oklopol: i've already done it, really 14:59:29 Huh? 14:59:29 **markov 14:59:29 that's correct 14:59:30 **markov 14:59:30 oklopol: just fixing 1 or 2 bugs 14:59:33 **markov 14:59:34 under root user i can find most famous , "catagorised" apps for linux. 14:59:35 **markov 14:59:36 short, one is you can utilize more RAM 14:59:37 **markov 14:59:37 whats rm -rf myfolder, myfolder will be gone. 14:59:39 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:59:50 -!- peyavi has joined. 14:59:51 ais523: i think i fixed it 14:59:58 **ul (o)S 15:00:04 Oh 15:00:05 silly me 15:00:28 ehird`: also, may i once again remind you markov chains were my idea first ;) 15:00:44 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:00:52 i need to see the underload spec 15:00:53 oklopol: markov chains were not your idea :P 15:00:55 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:00:56 **ul (o)S 15:00:56 undefined 15:01:08 neither was underload 15:01:09 i mean implementing them in a bot 15:01:29 markov chains were in bots beforey ou did that 15:01:43 so was unlambda 15:01:51 i mean implementing them in a bot, now 15:01:56 or back then 15:02:13 anyway, either get my point or don't 15:03:40 i'll make it, i'll just not put it in the bot, i'm gonna implement every lang on esolangs.org anyway 15:04:41 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:04:52 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:04:53 **ul (o)S 15:04:53 TypeError: p.value has no properties 15:04:56 close :P 15:05:13 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:05:23 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:05:27 **ul (o)S 15:05:34 well, close enough 15:07:23 -!- RedDak has joined. 15:08:34 ehird`: have you remembered to remove all the .value suffixes from the code? 15:08:56 hmm 15:09:01 interesting 15:09:10 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:09:15 ais523: ofc 15:09:21 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:09:22 ais523: in fact, i've made it extra evil just now 15:09:24 **ul (o)S 15:09:24 ReferenceError: p is not defined 15:09:28 cose 15:09:29 close 15:09:51 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:10:02 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:10:08 **ul (o)S 15:10:08 o 15:10:10 woot 15:10:23 ok how do you invite egobot somewhere? 15:11:35 !help 15:11:39 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 15:11:41 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 15:11:42 I don't think you can 15:12:21 ok who has a copy of egobot lying around 15:12:22 ;) 15:12:26 ah what the heck 15:12:31 ais523: run the infinite loop quine thing 15:12:37 i'll kill peyavi when the flood starts 15:12:43 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:12:50 !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:12:53 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:12:54 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:12:55 too late 15:12:56 :P 15:13:02 try now 15:13:03 !ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:07 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:11 the prefix is **ul. 15:13:15 for peyavi 15:13:23 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:25 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:25 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:27 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:27 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:29 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:29 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:29 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:31 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:31 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:33 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:33 !ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 15:13:35 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:13:35 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:13:37 fun 15:13:37 **ul (!ul ((**ul )Sa(!ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 15:14:07 heh 15:15:24 idea: 15:15:35 an esoteric language designed to write esolang interpreters 15:15:48 I'm working on at least two of those at the moment 15:16:15 and there's Thutu, of course; its wimpmode version Thutu2 is the only language in which Forte has been implemented 15:18:42 **unl2ul ```sii``sii 15:18:52 oops 15:19:00 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:19:02 **unl2ul ```sii``sii 15:19:19 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:19:30 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:19:47 **unl2ul ```sii``sii 15:19:59 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:20:05 are you sure that you mean to be sending smart-quotes as input to the channel? 15:20:10 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:20:13 three backquotes are likely to work better 15:20:21 its not smartquotes 15:20:28 your client is broken 15:20:32 **unl2ul ```sii``siii 15:20:38 you're right, it's my client 15:20:39 yes, its chatzilla 15:20:40 chatzilla does that 15:20:50 which is why you should dump chatzilla :) 15:20:56 **unl2ul ```sii``sii 15:20:57 I don't have any choice in the matter 15:21:31 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:21:41 -!- peyavi has joined. 15:21:47 **unl2ul ```sii``sii 15:21:47 ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)()~^()~^((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)()~^()~^~^ 15:22:11 **unl2ul s 15:22:11 ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*) 15:22:14 **unl2ul `sk 15:22:14 ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)(a(!)~*)~^ 15:22:17 **unl2ul ``skk 15:22:17 ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)(a(!)~*)~^(a(!)~*)~^ 15:22:20 **unl2ul ` 15:22:20 ~^ 15:22:24 **unl2ul x` 15:22:24 ~^ 15:22:27 **unl2ul s` 15:22:27 ((:)~*(~)*a(~*(~^)*)*)~^ 15:22:38 **unl2ul ````.H.i.!i 15:22:39 ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^~^ 15:22:54 **ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^~^ 15:22:55 ERROR: Empty stack 15:22:58 uh oh 15:23:04 **unl2ul ```.H.i.!i 15:23:04 ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^ 15:23:09 mistake in my program, sorry 15:23:26 **ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^ 15:23:27 Hi! 15:23:31 !ul ((H)S)((i)S)~^((!)S)~^()~^ 15:23:33 Hi! 15:24:39 **ul (a)(b(c))(d)(e)~*:!*(S)^ 15:24:39 b(c)ed 15:25:01 standalone, spidermonkey source: http://pastebin.ca/raw/792589 15:25:10 syntax highlighted: http://pastebin.ca/792589 15:25:14 yes, the _ object is evil :) 15:25:34 * ais523 was writing another Underload interpreter during that 15:25:37 in Perl this time 15:25:38 http://pastebin.ca/792590 15:26:17 haha 15:26:19 slightly simpler 15:26:19 :P 15:26:27 i'll write one functionally, in scheme 15:26:29 but firs 15:26:30 t 15:26:30 brb 15:26:41 mine does no error checking, though 15:32:02 **help 15:34:15 sorry 15:34:16 no help 15:34:25 markov, ul, unl2ul 15:34:28 are the only commands atm 15:34:39 but it has got all the infrastructure 15:34:54 multithreaded commands, argument parsing, helper methods, etc 15:34:57 just not many real commands :-) 15:36:25 I wish there was a Scheme implementation like regular, CL Lisps 15:36:29 I find them amusing :-) 15:36:38 with their core image files and their full VMs and everything 15:36:48 it's so detached from the OS or anything 15:36:52 still, MIT scheme is pretty close 15:37:47 .. I also wish there was an editor other than Emacs that works well with scheme. :| 15:38:37 I'm sure that one exists 15:38:59 whether it's easy to obtain a copy is another matter 15:40:29 bah, mit scheme doesn't implement enough srfis for me 15:40:32 time to find another impl 15:40:54 i wish there was an agreement of what scheme interpreter to use 15:41:26 I guess scheme48/PLT scheme are the main choices 15:41:49 I suppose you could just implement scheme in Common Lisp or vice versa 15:41:59 but common lisp makes me sad :P 15:42:15 the only thing i like about common lisp is its weird systems :P 15:44:25 How many implementations of Underload does that make now? 15:44:52 There's the original JS, the modified JS, the BF, the Thutu, and the Perl (not counting the self-interpreter-by-cheating) 15:46:22 and now my scheme when gauche installs 15:46:22 :P 16:06:26 * ais523 has just come across a great Ben Olmstead quote 16:07:01 "I think Malbolge needs an update. I may write Visual M++ 2008 Extra Ultimate Edition if I'm feeling bored some weekend." 16:07:44 :) yeah 16:07:45 i saw that 16:09:02 ((#\*) (ul-inner program (cons (append (cadr stack) (car stack)) (cddr stack)) output inner)) 16:09:10 ais523: i have a feeling this isn't idiomatic scheme :) 16:10:12 is that the code for the ~ instruction? 16:10:17 and are you tail-recursively looping? 16:10:46 I understand lispy scheme, but not the strings of punctuation marks that appear every now and then 16:11:16 no 16:11:17 that's for * 16:11:25 #\c is the character c in scheme 16:11:31 # is used for 'extra atoms' 16:11:53 I missed the 'append', you're right, that is * 16:11:55 #t #f #\newline #\tab #\space #\c (where c is a char) 16:12:11 also i'm tail-recursively looping yeah. 16:12:19 wimping out for parens though 16:12:30 and just making a inner-parens or something function 16:13:31 I must have a go at writing a Cyclexa version sometime 16:13:46 but I'll have to finish up the spec and start writing the interpreter first 16:15:54 and I should probably avoid mentioning languages in IRC channels when nobody else knows what they are because I haven't posted any info 16:17:30 what's the singular of parentheses? 16:18:55 parenthesis 16:22:09 ^ When the ^ command is called, it includes the top element of the stack into the program, immediately after the ^ command, ready to be run next. 16:22:11 doesn't pop though 16:22:12 right? 16:23:18 does pop, that's a mistake in the definition. I'll go and fix it on the wiki 16:23:47 ok, if this works 16:23:51 then i have an underload interp in 31 lines 16:24:16 and also 100% functional 16:24:24 although, since it is 16:24:29 output comes after the program is run 16:24:35 so, no e.g. fibonacci program atm 16:24:41 i can easily fix that. 16:24:54 that's not a problem really for an output-only language, except for infinite loops 16:26:02 indeed 16:27:08 the way the non-wimpmode Thutu is defined it's incapable of doing output without asking for input 16:27:31 but this doesn't technically speaking restrict what I/O sequences are allowed, because it can always be stored up until input is needed 16:27:52 it's pretty frustrating, though, which is why I used the wimpmode version Thutu2 16:28:58 hm 16:29:01 give me an underload program to test 16:29:04 (o)S is failing 16:29:05 and i don't know why 16:29:06 so hm 16:29:24 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 16:30:22 the standard quine (:aSS):aSS is one possibility to test 16:31:05 if you want something harder, you could try one of Keymaker's programs, or the decimal-counting program I just posted on the wiki talk page 16:31:44 and there's (a)(b(c))(d)(e)~*:!*(S)^ which I just came up with off the top of my head to test the Perl version (and checked the correct result with peyavi) 16:34:32 hm 16:34:34 without output 16:34:34 :P 16:35:01 do you have a debugger? 16:35:24 printf debugging in Scheme would be quite a beauty to behold, I expect, especially if you were just dumping expressions 16:36:12 yeah i don't want to printf (display) debug in scheme :P 16:36:18 i wonder if there IS a scheme debugger.. 16:36:23 I mean, generally you don't debug in lisp 16:36:26 you load stuff into your REPL 16:36:30 and test +modify it there 16:36:43 hm, seems not 16:38:10 I think my parens don't match up 16:38:11 >_< 16:38:29 * ehird` resigns to the fact that he needs to use emacs 16:38:47 * ais523 uses Emacs all the time 16:38:51 even on Windows 16:38:56 emacs is terrible 16:39:32 EMACS is a perfectly good OS, albeit showing its age. With evile or similar it has a fairly good text editor, and the browser, IRC client etc aren't bad. 16:40:43 GregorR: ha, ha, we did this last week. 16:42:00 it doesn't work very well as an OS on DOS, due to the impossibility of multiple processes 16:42:23 it works better than many other text editors on DOS for much the same reason 16:45:49 GregorR: From #emacs: "Emacs follows the Unix philosophy. It does one thing, and does it well: everything." :p 16:46:59 emacs is infuriating me already! :P 16:47:48 pikhq: are you defending it? :P 16:47:53 pikhq: Hahahahaahha X-D 16:48:01 pikhq: OMG, that's so brilliant I may have to switch to EMACS :P 16:48:17 GregorR: Ok, come on, emacs may be terrible, but it's not called EMACS any more :P 16:48:19 ehird`: I'm a member of the Church of Emacs. 16:48:24 pikhq: die die die! 16:48:35 ehird`: ORLY? 16:48:37 ehird`: Using Vi is not a sin in the CoE, BTW. 16:48:50 ehird`: I thought people were just lazy and decapped, I didn't realize it had been officially decapped. 16:48:54 Only using nonfree software is a sin in it. 16:48:59 pikhq: I know that. 16:49:04 pikhq: On my mac i use a non-free editor. :P 16:49:09 (TextMate.) 16:49:19 I believe the Emacs solution to vi was to try to emulate it 16:49:19 Then I sentence you to a horrendous penance. 16:49:28 Well, you're using it on a nonfree system, so you have more problems than just the editor :P 16:49:29 Use Vi (or viper-mode). 16:49:31 and then talk about why the Emacs version of vi was so superior 16:49:33 GregorR: It officially refers to itself as "Emacs" or "GNU Emacs" 16:49:43 Zomgsicles! 16:49:44 the title bar says "emacs@hostname", though, but that's just to be unix-y in specifying it 16:50:14 ais523: "Instead of i you can type (set-vi-mode 'insert)" 16:50:22 "This allows for additional flexibility" 16:50:48 LMAO 16:50:54 ehird`: are you agreeing with me or arguing with me? I can't quite tell 16:50:59 ais523: agreeing ;) 16:52:09 info viper 16:52:13 nImprovements over Vi 16:52:42 they have a whole chapter in their manual about why Emacs' version of vi is so much better than vi 16:52:50 but they sort of miss the point about why people use bi 16:52:55 s/bi/vi/ 16:53:27 by the way, what's your favourite backronym for EMACS 16:53:30 s/$/?/ 16:54:33 I'd go with Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift, although that doesn't actually do anything by itself because that's five modifier keys without specifying a character at the end of it 16:55:52 -!- ais523 has quit ("changing to a different computer, will be logged off IRC in the meantime"). 16:56:30 oh my god!!! emacs just indented with a mix of spaces and tabs!! 16:56:34 evil peice of shit!! 16:56:40 * ehird` runs to #emacs and demands to know how to disable it 16:56:58 Damn I before E except after C and when pronounced 'ay' as in neighbor and weigh!!! 16:57:11 GregorR: or a few other cases! 16:57:24 Yeah, it's weird. 16:57:28 But piece isn't one of them :P 16:57:46 Escape == Meta == Alt in modern Emacs, anyways. 16:57:57 So, that's 3 modifiers. 16:58:07 I thought escape was escape? 16:58:12 (Thought meta == alt) 16:58:45 GregorR: Escape is set to be Alt to allow for archaic systems without an alt key. 16:58:57 Wow, that's archaic. 16:59:14 ehird`: C-c . k&r 16:59:21 pikhq: for SCHEME? 16:59:24 :) 16:59:24 ehird`: Oh. 16:59:34 anyway 16:59:35 it's (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) 16:59:52 GregorR: of course its archaic 17:00:15 GregorR: the emacs tutorial says things like "If you are running in a windowed environment, ..." and "If your terminal has cursor keys, ..." 17:00:25 Hahahaha 17:00:32 Emacs still runs on the PDP-11, IIRC. 17:00:36 no -- seriously, it does :) 17:00:50 pikhq: Doesn't surprise me. ehird`: Doesn't surprise me. 17:00:57 All this is because some people actually *use* it on such old systems. 17:01:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:01:19 did I miss anything? 17:01:25 ais523: yes 17:01:27 lots 17:01:29 Just emacs wars. 17:01:34 fun emacs war, though 17:01:41 Quite. 17:01:43 pikhq: Okay -- but nobody uses emacs on a PDP-11. 17:01:48 I will not accept that! ;) 17:01:58 * ais523 reads the logs 17:02:07 Someone actually runs GCC on a PDP-11. ;) 17:02:22 (why else would the PDP-11 backend still work?) 17:04:34 as for 'if you're running in a windowed environment...'; when I run Emacs on DJGPP on DOS on NTVDM on Windows, Emacs doesn't have access to the windowed environment it's running on 4 levels down, and besides I normally run it in full-screen mode 17:05:01 if you look hard enough there'll probably be a mode designed to pipe output to a lineprinter 17:05:05 If you run emacs without X, you don't have a windowed environment. 17:05:19 ais523: Confirmed. 17:05:29 Somewhere in with the DOS stuff in the manual. 17:09:07 * ais523 is busy reading the horrific details about newlines in Emacs on DOS 17:09:44 it's a real problem, though. I know because the INTERCAL compiler I maintain now targets both Linux/UNIX systems and DOS via DJGPP, and everything has to be written for both 17:10:08 also, all the important filenames are 8.3, so instead of 'configure' you configure it with 'config.sh' 17:10:54 nobody sane uses dos!!! 17:10:54 jesus 17:10:58 (even insane people like us) 17:11:13 it's the sanest way I found to run it under Windows 17:11:34 NTVDM is awful, but it's possible to work around most of its bugs with frequent restarting 17:12:01 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:12:06 the most annoying is the way that it crashes with a Windows error message every time I run 'tar', for no obvious reason 17:12:30 oh, and the printer stuff in the DOS section is a false positive 17:24:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:29:34 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:31:44 Shigeo. 17:31:46 . . . hi 17:31:50 oh no 17:31:53 not you 17:31:59 why not? 17:32:02 right 17:32:06 why not? 17:32:36 ais523: because he was as annoying yesterday as the previous time he came in 17:32:56 * ais523 will have to read the logs a bit further back 17:33:17 :( 17:35:54 it seems reasonable to me, but I have an unusually high tolerance 17:36:12 *sigh* 17:36:15 Thank God. 17:36:16 Yeah, that seems a bit harsh. 17:36:19 and being a Wikipedia admin, I also have a tendency to help new users rather than insulating them 17:36:29 *insulting 17:36:47 yeah, well last time he came in here [not yesterday] he spammed up the channel 17:36:52 also got his bot to spam it at one point 17:37:05 and yelled a lot when people did not reply to him within 30 seconds 17:37:22 sounds to me like someone who's eager but doesn't really understand IRC 17:37:23 No. 17:37:43 I'm 10 and from Poland. 17:37:44 but 17:37:45 ais523: yes -- that's his defense. along with "I'm only 10!!!" 17:37:45 who cares 17:37:52 great timing 17:37:56 I'm also a dumbass that nobody cares about. 17:38:03 At least that's what you think of me. 17:38:08 sheesh 17:38:08 Let us show you the SUPER HIGHWAY OF INFORMATION. 17:38:14 i just stated how you have been in this channel 17:38:31 So you stated in 4 words "Asie is a dumbass". 17:38:39 in facty 17:38:41 fact* 17:38:42 no, actually. 17:38:50 but if you'd like to believe that's what i said, go ahead 17:38:56 You're just young is all. 17:39:28 Nobody cares. 17:39:37 Especially ehird`. 17:39:38 http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Nobody_cares 17:39:39 Ah, to be young again. And also a robot. 17:39:51 ehird`: it was inevitable that someone would post that link 17:39:55 ais523: :) 17:40:05 even though I've never actually seen what's at the other end of it 17:40:17 haha 17:40:20 it's not a shock site or anything 17:40:39 Well, at least until you search it for goatse. 17:40:52 there's no goatse on that page. :P 17:41:07 But who knows! It might only be clicks away! 17:41:10 last time I tried to look at uncyclopedia was in a cybercafe, and I hit a content filter 17:41:13 ... 17:41:28 o`/ Nobody cares about me o`/ 17:41:34 -!- calamari has joined. 17:41:36 o`/ Well, why you should? I don't know! o`/ 17:41:44 soon, asiekierka will discover razor blades 17:41:49 and then we'll all be investigated 17:42:22 * ais523 wonders how to de-escalate this discussion without making it worse or insulting one side or the other for life 17:42:23 o`/ No you will not be. Why? I don't know o`/ 17:42:30 o`/ because i suck! o`/ 17:42:58 ais523: I do believe the solution is to simply put people on temporary ignore, allow the argument to resolve itself in time, and then let the ignores expire. 17:43:02 ais523 : The solution would probably be to steer the conversation toward something unrelated. 17:43:05 asiekierka, your song-writing skills are lacking. 17:43:10 xD 17:43:14 ais523, ais523, asiekierka. 17:43:28 ais523: Just forget about me. 17:43:32 -!- asiekierka has left (?). 17:43:54 he'll be back in 10 minutes 17:43:55 he always is 17:44:53 -!- _ has joined. 17:44:58 hmm 17:45:01 when i say '10 minutes' 17:45:06 i actually mean '1 minute' 17:45:17 <_> ... 17:45:18 disguised as an underscore 17:45:25 <_> you know that's me, right? 17:45:28 <_> okl 17:45:29 <_> ok* 17:45:32 Well, it was 10 minutes. 17:45:33 -!- _ has changed nick to asiekierka. 17:45:35 But in base 1. 17:45:39 ... 17:45:42 no. "_ (n=asiekier@81.15.226.6) has joined #esoteric" did not give it away at all. 17:46:11 Waiting for somebody to say that he likes me. 17:46:37 Hm. My sarcasm muscle is twitching. 17:46:46 Slereah-: base 1 uses no digits but 0 17:46:56 you mean base 2... 17:47:03 10 = 2 in binary 17:47:07 or more like 17:47:13 2 decimal = 10 in binary 17:47:17 he said base 1. 17:47:36 Base 1 is unresolvable, but anyway. 17:47:40 Well, it could be that base 1 only use 1, and 0 as a place holder. 17:47:40 GregorR is right 17:47:47 but let's assume he meant "unary, with 0 as nop" 17:48:00 Slereah-: base 2 uses 10, base 3 uses 210 17:48:04 so, base 1 must use only 0 17:48:05 there should be more numeric systems with NOPs in 17:48:09 so, nothing can be expressed in base 1 17:48:19 you could use an infinite number of 0s 17:48:23 not that it would help much 17:48:37 LET 10 = 1 17:49:14 of course, that can't be the first line of the program, because such lines are traditionally numbered '10', and it's undefined behaviour to redefine integers while you're actually using them 17:50:59 There is one number that can be expressed in base 0. 17:51:01 Erm, base 1 >_O 17:51:03 Namely, 1 17:51:06 Erm, 0 17:51:09 Damn it *slaps self* 17:51:46 no, the only number that can be expressed in base 0 is the null string 17:52:01 because it doesn't use any symbols at all 17:52:15 on the other hand, base -2 uses two symbols, so maybe the pattern doesn't last indefinitely... 17:52:32 Since I made giant horrible errors saying what I was trying to say there, I'll repeat: There is one number that can be expressed in base 1, namely 0. 17:53:17 Agreed. There are an infinite number of ways to express it, too. 17:53:38 Well, there are an infinite number of ways to express 0 in any base. 17:54:20 in Roman Numerals, there aren't any ways to express 0 at all, but it isn't really a base 17:54:31 :P 17:54:56 I'm perfectly happy with terrorist numerals, thank you very much. 17:55:14 I don't get the reference 17:55:29 Arab numerals, I suppose 17:56:23 I like oerjan's Aromabic, personally 17:56:27 0123456789 = Arab numerals, and my govment learned me that there TERRISTS 17:56:45 I'm even thinking about implementing them as a new I/O format for INTERCAL 17:56:50 so that it can actually read its own output 17:57:04 More info, por favor. (URL?) 17:57:05 only shortest-length representations of numbers would be allowed 17:57:23 GregorR: it's in the logs somewhere, but might take a while to find 17:57:52 I'm sure the keyword "aromabic" will help :P (/me hunts) 17:58:13 Erm, or not (no matches) 17:58:53 basically, each character in [0123456789IVXLCDM] is a command in a language that modifies one number on top of the stack 17:59:14 well, there's no way to access any other stack elements, so it's a bit of a degenerate stack 17:59:34 the number at TOS starts at 0 17:59:48 any digit multiplies TOS by 10 and then adds itself to TOS 18:00:17 so that strings like "1234" map to exactly the numbers you'd expect if you're used to decimal and aren't expecting something esoteric to surprise you 18:01:18 ais523: but...? 18:01:33 whilst the letters each have a value (as in ordinary roman numerals); say TOS is t, their value is n, and % is the modulus operator, then they map t to t+n-2*(t%n) 18:01:49 whoa. 18:01:50 sorry, it took me a while to remember what the exact formula was 18:02:00 So what's "0123456789IVXLCDM"? :) 18:02:11 so IV = 1V = 1+5-(1*2) = 4 18:02:36 0123456789I would be 1234567890 18:02:51 So, if you're writing in roman numerals, it works ... and if you're writing in decimal, it works ... but you can also mix and match. 18:02:54 That = awesome. 18:03:50 Incidentally, how is that a stack? Seems like just a single register. 18:03:52 then the V makes it 1234567895, X: 1234567895, L:1234567855, C:1234567845, D:1234567655, M:1234567345 18:04:02 it isn't, I just said 'stack' to start with and then kept on going 18:04:07 Heh 18:04:24 presumably you could use these as numeric input commands in a Befunge-like language 18:04:45 the idea is that INTERCAL would only accept minimum-length representations 18:05:42 so one possible way to count would be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,X,11,12,...,49,L,51,52,...,99,C,CI,X2,X3,...,X9,CX, and so on 18:06:10 it can be quite confusing trying to work out minimum length representations of numbers 18:06:33 unfortunately very large numbers normally end up mostly in decimal; maybe if the overlined versions of letters are used that would help 18:06:42 and the lowercase letters that INTERCAL uses for times-1000 18:06:51 s/1000/1000000/ 18:09:24 - OFFTOPIC - 18:09:29 Do you know any good Piet tutorial? 18:09:31 - END OFFTOPIC - 18:10:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:11:04 asiekierka: you should learn to teach yourself languages 18:11:10 you won't find many esolang tutorials beyond brainfuck 18:11:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:13:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:15:03 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:15:54 that disconnection was slightly scary, by the way 18:16:18 I know it just looked like a normal remote-close from the logs, but what happened was that the terminal I was using lost network access 18:17:17 I don't know if I'd use the term "scary" for that :P 18:17:19 so I was forcibly logged off both the UNIX server and the Windows terminal without even so much as a close-files-I'm-using, and then had to find and kill the processes that were left behind and keeping the files open that would let me reconnect 18:17:42 and then the Windows terminal rebooted for no apparent reason, no, correction, it turned itself off 18:18:11 and I ended up deleting my entire .mozilla directory 18:18:24 to try to get things back to some semblance of sanity 18:18:39 all this in a minute 18:19:05 It deconnected because he fell in a time vortex. 18:19:45 oklopol: it was more than a minute at my end, more like 5 minutes according to the logs 18:20:04 it's just that the deconnection was so sudden it took the servers some time to notice that it had even happened 18:20:21 I'm on a different terminal at the moment, hoping the same thing won't happen again 18:20:39 5 minutes :O 18:20:44 that's some serious time dilation 18:20:48 it was 2 minutes, ais523 18:20:57 18:11->18:13 18:20:58 for me 18:21:06 and a bee flew into my room, it's fucking -10 outside :\ 18:21:14 it was more like 18:06->18:13 to me 18:21:15 well i guess more like 0, but anyway 18:21:28 Why is that bee flying? 18:21:40 oklopol: "HALP AM WANT HOME COLD OUT DER" 18:21:41 Shouldn't it be in its hive hibernating? 18:21:50 do bees hibernate? 18:21:59 I'm pretty sure. 18:22:02 and why did I just try to use tab completion on the word 'hibernate'? 18:22:11 it was actually just a fly, looked bigger first 18:22:23 although i don't know if they should be awake either... 18:23:06 ais523: happens to me often too 18:23:08 Apparently most bees don't hibernate. 18:24:36 That was madness 18:24:55 I made a norn trapped in an elevator's body which looks like a robot toy 18:24:58 AMES A SPARTA! 18:26:48 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/6exd65h.png 18:26:52 There it is. 18:28:00 -!- ehird[erc] has joined. 18:28:04 hello from erc, in emacs 18:28:07 holy shit. :p 18:28:21 ehird`: wtf it tab-completes 18:28:33 Slereah-: what was that now? 18:28:53 It translates to this : 18:28:58 "The barbarian messenger spoke: "You profane! You are all mad!" Replied Leonidas: "We are mad? WE ARE SPARTA."" 18:29:00 ehird[erc]: I didn't even realise that Emacs had an IRC client 18:29:19 although I suppose I should have guessed 18:29:19 ais523: oh yes it does 18:29:25 it has 3 in the standard distrobution, iirc 18:29:27 THREE. 18:29:45 -!- ehird[rcirc] has joined. 18:29:47 hello from rcirc 18:29:49 in emasc. 18:29:54 ehird`: this tab completes too 18:30:08 You know how to make an easiest quine in some of esoteric languages? 18:30:11 just make an empty file. 18:30:17 That's cheating. 18:30:18 Ooooold 18:30:20 asiekierka: WOW THAT'S NEW AND EXCITING 18:30:28 really??? nobody ever put an empty file in an interpreter before!! 18:30:36 I prefer the one that must be possible in any Turing machine. 18:30:39 -!- RedDak has joined. 18:30:40 hmm 18:30:47 hmmmm 18:30:48 curse my memory 18:30:59 * ehird[rcirc] searches for the 3rd client 18:31:00 The empty program is not a quine in . 18:31:08 In 99! 18:31:09 oklopol: argh, i forgot too 18:31:14 the impressive version of the null quine was when someone submitted it to the IOCCC 18:31:23 haha 18:31:27 that whitespace one? 18:31:29 with a makefile that made it produce no output even though there was an error 18:31:44 they added a minimum length of 1 byte after that 18:31:57 and oklopol, you're thinking of "In HOMESPRING, the null program is not a quine." 18:32:00 ah 18:32:05 ais523: they should submit "\n" 18:32:11 and do some gcc tricks to get a newline 18:32:23 i remembered it has something to do with fishes... that was a fucking helpful clue. 18:32:40 there was a one-character program before that used preprocessor tricks to become a valid program 18:32:47 so they had to limit the length of the makefile 18:32:55 ais523: to what 18:32:56 it apparently drove some versions of lint into an infinite loop 18:34:15 I can't remember, but I think it's mentioned in one of the hint files, if that helps 18:34:20 they removed the limit again after a while, I think 18:34:37 well 18:34:40 with a small makefile 18:34:42 and a program of "\n" 18:34:45 you can get a quine 18:34:47 or a hello world 18:34:48 :-) 18:36:16 hello 18:36:55 I think there's also a rule that the resulting C file has to be executable 18:37:04 Where's ehird[rawirc]? :( 18:37:06 after the record breaking hello, world 18:37:16 GregorR: gimme a binary 18:37:17 :P 18:37:32 ais523: it still would be 18:37:37 just do some crazy gcc tricks 18:37:44 and include a header file or something 18:37:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:38:36 the build-size rule was apparently a 160 byte limit 18:38:49 although someone got round that one year with a sh/make/C polyglot 18:39:03 160 bytes?? for a makefile? 18:39:06 that's impossible 18:39:06 :P 18:39:11 no oerjan (no=hi) 18:39:22 ais523: i don't think i've said so yet, congratulations! 18:39:25 oh, and the record Hello, world was char*_="Hello world.\n"; 18:39:31 oerjan: thanks! 18:39:39 you do realise, Sgeo, that "hi" is the same amount of typing as "no" 18:39:39 ehird`: Platform? 18:39:44 GregorR: loonix 18:40:22 * oerjan disappears in a puff of Sgeo's logic 18:40:33 ehird`, yes, I realize that, it's just that no=hi is a Sine meme 18:40:44 sine? 18:40:44 the build instructions contained what was effectively -o /dev/stdout 18:40:58 It's a semi-private IRC network 18:41:13 sorry, /dev/tty but it comes to much the same thing 18:41:15 how can something be "semi-private"? :p 18:41:33 ais523: how did it avoid binary crap? 18:41:33 maybe it's protected: only derived networks can access it 18:41:36 piped through strings? :P 18:41:52 freenode is a bit semi-private, isn't it 18:41:56 ehird`: it didn't, it just worked on the basis that "Hello world.\n" was likely to be in there somewhere 18:42:27 oerjan: how? 18:43:03 ehird`: Platform = arch + OS X_X 18:43:11 GregorR: i186 18:43:15 it's governed by a non-profit organization, or something, isn't it 18:43:15 yes, 186! 18:43:18 i live in a little hole 18:43:23 Wowzers. 18:43:30 oerjan: i don't think semi-private means that :P 18:43:37 So, ELKS? No, ELKS only works on 286, right? 18:43:37 although admittedly i may be wrong having no idea what it means 18:43:38 well, I run GNU/Windows on something x86-compatible but much more modern 18:43:54 sort of like GNU/Linux, only Windows is the kernel and I run the GNU utilities on top of that 18:44:03 It means that it's not like we'll kick people out, but we don't give the address to random people.. well, mostly 18:44:07 ais523: i must question though why you use windows 18:44:16 ihope is on Sine 18:44:22 Sgeo: random as in random.choice(people)? 18:44:22 other people who want to use Windows, and me using the same computer 18:44:25 ... 18:44:26 ais523, ehird`: All the driver support, less of the garbager. 18:44:33 AKA garbage 18:44:35 You still aren't suprised i'm not spamming the channel? 18:44:46 asiekierka: sorry, are we meant to comment on that? 18:44:51 asiekierka: it's usual for IRC users to be inactive for a while 18:44:51 No. 18:44:55 Since it's garbage. 18:44:59 (what I said) 18:45:07 except for me, but that's for somewhat confusing reasons 18:45:19 (ais523 is a robot) 18:45:26 lol GregorR 18:45:26 that are the same reasons why I'm using a client so old that I can't figure out how to get it to auto-authenticate or keep logs 18:45:35 ehird`: i guess it's a continuous scale from completely closed network to complete anarchy 18:45:37 GregorR: that's the second time I've been accused of being a bot 18:45:46 ais523: what client? 18:45:58 ehird`: a really old version of ChatZilla 18:46:29 He's an old robot? 18:46:47 navigator.userAgent gives me Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20040414, so it's a relatively recent build, but still too old 18:47:04 that is, 2004 isn't really 'relatively recent' in computer terms nowadays 18:47:08 although I suppose it was in 2004 18:47:54 once upon a time, the pyramids were relatively recent 18:48:14 -!- ehird` has quit ("K-Lined by peer"). 18:48:20 ..? 18:48:35 -!- ehird` has joined. 18:49:17 what on earth does that quit message mean? I suppose that as it's in quotes, it might just be ehird` messing around, but it does look concerning 18:49:25 just me messing around 18:49:33 you're the second person to comment about it in here 18:49:41 * oerjan coughs 18:49:57 And this is the second time I've commented that FreeNode makes user quit messages easily distinguishable from system quit messages :P 18:50:25 quotes are useful 18:52:10 -!- ehird[erc] has left (?). 18:52:12 -!- ehird[rcirc] has left (?). 18:52:40 ais523: can you read Scheme? :P 18:52:45 oh 18:52:47 thats whats wrong 18:52:58 ehird`: ? 18:53:01 nothing 18:53:01 :P 18:53:13 ?? 18:53:40 i just had a bug 18:53:42 but i fixed it 18:53:45 immediately after lookign at it 18:54:21 I hope you get it working 18:58:28 asiekierka: see if you can make a negative-length quine 18:58:39 you first have to invent a language for which the concept makes sense 18:58:39 No not really. 18:58:54 probably some extension to TURKEY BOMB 18:59:16 You only need BIZARRO ASCII. 18:59:21 which is a great language that I actually tried to implement at one point, but got confused 18:59:31 I had an idea for a language. 18:59:41 a joke one at that 18:59:46 I think with suitable choices for the parts of the language that are vaguely specifed it may be Turing-complete 18:59:49 what is it? 18:59:59 Every character you type is treated as a random command. 19:00:11 so "h" can be once push, once add, once pop, once delete... 19:00:14 etc 19:00:15 etc 19:00:22 turkey bomb isn't TC, ais523 19:00:28 for example the turkey bomb instruction :P 19:00:32 ehird`: how do you know? 19:00:36 intuition 19:00:36 P 19:00:37 :P 19:00:53 I'll call it YOUR ESOTERIC LANGUAGE OF THE DAY, MAN. 19:01:01 Specs: 19:01:13 you can use multiple people playing it to form some sort of infinite loop with skips forwards and backwards 19:01:30 after all, a couple of the commands mention unusual things happening to the TURKEY BOMB itself 19:01:39 - You must type in lowercase. 19:01:39 - Every line must end with ", man." (without the quotes) 19:01:39 - every char is treated as a random command. 19:01:42 sopecs 19:01:46 specs* 19:02:35 I think it works if the operation that involves three-trits is greater-than on two of them picked at random, with short-circuiting from left to write 19:02:39 s/write/right/ 19:03:22 because the short-circuiting lets you do conditional jumps 19:03:56 bsmnt_bot isn't here 19:04:13 bsmntbombdood: correct 19:04:19 I noticed. We had to use peyavi instead for the two-bot infinite loop that we set up earlier 19:04:24 yes 19:04:29 peyavi: is still here 19:04:33 I suppose that if you persuade it to join a three-bot infinite loop might be possible 19:04:35 but his underload interp is getting rewritten in scheme 19:04:53 1 ]=> (ul "(o)S") 19:04:53 ;Value 12: "o" 19:04:58 ('it' in my last comment refers to bsmnt_bot. That's the problem with asynchronous communication.) 19:05:05 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 19:05:06 It works! :D 19:05:25 wow, I just need to figure out what the relevant three-bot code would be 19:05:35 oh no 19:05:36 (:aSS):aSS 19:05:37 doesn't work 19:05:40 better fix that 19:05:45 ass ass 19:05:47 Doing it with ~exec is very hard due to the way Python treats quotation marks 19:05:57 !ul (:aSS):aSS 19:05:59 (:aSS):aSS 19:06:01 ais523: you can add handlers with bsmnt_bot 19:06:05 ~help 19:06:08 meh 19:06:11 hahahahah help 19:06:12 ehird`: I know, that's how I did it last time 19:06:15 help is for girly men 19:06:23 **ul (:aSS):aSS 19:06:24 (:aSS):aSS 19:09:40 you know 19:09:44 not once have i figured out 19:09:45 Sgeo: according to your experiments with norns, you must be pleased to hear the fly has grown tired of living and now lies on its back on the floor, occasionally buzzing a bit 19:09:56 how to copy text from emacs into another app 19:09:59 i can do it within emacs 19:10:03 but i do not know how to copy it out 19:11:04 ehird`: that tends to be quite annoying as it depends on your OS. Normally, if you copy text to the kill ring with M-w, it also copies it to your OS's clipboard, but in my experience it tends to usually get this wrong 19:11:18 yeah, it doesn't work for me 19:11:20 on x11 19:11:34 ;The object (#\( #\S #\S #\a #\: . #\)), passed as an argument to append, is not a list. 19:11:35 aha 19:11:38 just need to use middle-click 19:11:41 instead of shift-insert or ctrl-v 19:11:43 so anyway, yeah 19:11:46 that's the bug i'm tackling now :P 19:12:27 debugging functional programs in scheme is a bitch. 19:12:32 :| 19:18:06 -!- v1nc3L has joined. 19:20:33 19:20:40 hi! 19:20:43 Sorry (or maybe yay), i gotta go. 19:20:53 ~exec sys.stdout("test") 19:20:54 test 19:21:01 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:21:39 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:41 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:21:41 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:42 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:45 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:21:45 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:46 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:49 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:21:49 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:50 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:53 !undaemon 1 19:21:53 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:21:54 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:54 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:57 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:21:58 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:21:58 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:22:01 **ul (~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^)S 19:22:01 ~cat !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:22:02 !ul ((**ul )Sa(~cat !ul )~*(:^)*aS(S)S):^ 19:22:02 !kill 1 19:22:03 Process 1 killed. 19:22:09 now make it peer to peer 19:22:09 :D 19:22:16 each part, when spawned, can continue with at least one partner 19:22:23 but does not require the whole chain to be active 19:22:33 make it always print a command for both the other bots... 19:22:46 I don't think that's possible unless you get the bots to output two commands each 19:22:53 exponential bottity 19:22:56 and that would involve embedding newlines in the input to the bots 19:23:05 and that's hard? 19:23:09 let's just reinstall the Underload daemon, anyway (thanks Keymaker!) 19:23:16 !daemon ul bf http://pastebin.ca/raw/367774 19:23:19 i mean, is that not possible? 19:23:35 ais523: meh you can figure out a way! ;) 19:23:42 next up: distributed computing, via irc bots 19:23:51 -!- v1nc3L has left (?). 19:24:03 the problem is that the three bots all use different identifying characters so that each bot would have to send out two commands, one for each other bot 19:24:19 but the only way to say that in Underload is to put a literal newline in the string, so you couldn't send the info over IRC anyway 19:24:49 you need to include PRIVMSG #esoteric : 19:25:44 although any decent bot will either 1. ignore newlines 2. make newlines illegal 3. split by newlines and print each separately 19:25:48 bsmntbombdood: zomg you deleted the BF interpreter 19:26:07 3rd is what for example ololobot does, and i guess EgoBot too 19:26:26 !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>. 19:26:29 A 19:26:38 ...kay 19:26:48 EgoBot does not flood. 19:26:53 Well, it doesn't flood channels. 19:26:53 hmm 19:26:53 I was assuming 3 19:26:57 If you ask it to, it'll flood you ^^ 19:27:06 shouldn't it send that to my pric? 19:27:08 *priv 19:27:17 oklopol: Didn't it? 19:27:21 hmm 19:27:26 !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>. 19:27:29 A 19:27:29 i think i identified... 19:27:31 i'll check 19:27:37 Fails for me, too :P 19:27:43 EgoBot must not be auth'd. 19:27:44 One sec. 19:27:45 then the bot isn't identified 19:28:27 i need to go again for a bit -< 19:28:28 +- 19:28:30 - 19:28:31 ... 19:28:35 an array. 19:28:40 !bf ++++++++++>++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+.<.>. 19:28:43 A 19:28:53 >_O 19:29:12 OK, Idonno, it r borked. 19:37:01 * oerjan suddenly imagines running Chef through a Swedish Chef generator 19:37:26 ~exec 0 19:37:36 ~bf ,[.,]!Got this working again 19:37:37 Got this working again 19:38:10 now all we need is a Python Underload interpreter so that three bots can do it at once... 19:40:16 nah, just filter the bf underload interpreter through bsmnt_bot's python bf interpreter 19:41:26 I thought of that, but the logistics of trying to retype the whole thing through IRC (even with the benefit of copy/paste) are staggering 19:41:33 **markov 19:41:33 sometimes the way I'm proposing will make a pastebin ? 19:41:40 **markov 19:41:41 The developers Brazilians are very impatient 19:41:42 **markov 19:41:42 AlexC_, any ideas ? 19:41:43 **markov 19:41:44 Mark761966: hidden files 19:41:53 what exactly is it doing? 19:41:59 ais523: it's a markov chain 19:42:03 **markov 19:42:03 rnenjoy, and also, a rule that the blocks follow 19:42:14 that's reasonably obvious, but what is it based on? 19:42:20 irc input 19:42:28 how much overlap? 19:42:33 everything it hears in irc (its in here, ##moosanity, and #php and #ubuntu for idiot-watching) 19:42:38 is added to its vocab 19:42:42 **markov 19:42:43 Creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if it still shows the loading progress bar. on the Medibuntu servers is "not evaluating $file correctly 19:42:51 ais523: it is possibly to get a network connection from bsmnt_bot, i think 19:42:55 *le 19:43:02 "Creed now thats totally subjective try them and see if it still shows the loading progress bar." that's pretty good 19:43:11 just not easy 19:43:15 ~eval dir(self) 19:43:19 ~exec dir(self) 19:43:26 ~exec self.msg("#esoteric",dir(self)) 19:43:27 AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'msg' 19:43:38 ~exec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :" + repr(dir(self))) 19:43:38 ['COMMAND_CHAR', 'THREADING', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'ban', 'ban_file', 'banlist', 'bf3', 'bf4', 'chan', 'commands_running', 'commands_running_lock', 'connect', 'connected', 'disconnect', 'do_callbacks', 'do_ctcp', 'do_exec', 'do_kill', 'do_ps', 'do_quit', 'do_raw', 'error_in_chan', 'errorchan', 'exec_execer', 'get_message', 'handle_callback', 'host', 'ident', 'listen', 'load_callbacks', 'locals', 'message_re', 'nick', 'o 19:43:51 ~exec sys.stdout("This is how you print things.") 19:43:51 This is how you print things. 19:44:01 ~exec self.callbacks 19:44:02 AttributeError: IRCbot instance has no attribute 'callbacks' 19:44:18 ~exec sys.stdout(dir(self)) 19:44:19 ['COMMAND_CHAR', 'THREADING', '__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'ban', 'ban_file', 'banlist', 'bf3', 'bf4', 'chan', 'commands_running', 'commands_running_lock', 'connect', 'connected', 'disconnect', 'do_callbacks', 'do_ctcp', 'do_exec', 'do_kill', 'do_ps', 'do_quit', 'do_raw', 'error_in_chan', 'errorchan', 'exec_execer', 'get_message', 'handle_callback', 'host', 'ident' 19:44:19 , 'listen', 'load_callbacks', 'locals', 'message_re', 'nick', 'owner', 'pong', 'port', 'print_callbacks', 'raw', 'raw_regex_queue', 'read_bans', 'realname', 'register_raw', 'save_callbacks', 'socket', 'sockfile', 'unban', 'verbose', 'write_bans'] 19:44:29 ~exec self.print_callbacks() 19:44:53 Essentially i'm trying to find the bf callback. 19:45:02 ~exec print self.raw_regex_queue 19:45:07 ~exec print >>sys,stdout, self.raw_regex_queue 19:45:07 NameError: name 'stdout' is not defined 19:45:10 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue 19:45:10 [(<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0xb7d4abf0>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80e0d10>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dc640>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object 19:45:15 at 0x80dc440>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dcab0>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dcfa0>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80b91c0>, thod IRCbot.do_ps of <__main__.IRCbot instance at 0xb7cd56ac>>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80dd278>, >), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80e2d00>, at 0xb7cd4764>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80b9400>, at 0xb7cd8dbc>), (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80de898> 19:45:25 , )] 19:45:30 ~exec bfarg 19:45:31 NameError: name 'bfarg' is not defined 19:45:38 it's the top pattern object in the raw_regex_queue 19:45:38 ~exec self.raw_regex_queue[-1] 19:45:48 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1] 19:45:49 (<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x80de898>, ) 19:45:51 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1] 19:45:52 19:45:56 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1]("+.") 19:45:57 TypeError: bfarg() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given) 19:46:07 ~exec print >>sys.stdout, self.raw_regex_queue[-1][1].f_code 19:46:07 AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'f_code' 19:46:10 bah 19:46:20 if you want to see the source: 19:46:33 ~sys.stdout(repr(self.bf3+self.bf4)) 19:46:53 ~exec sys.stdout(repr(self.bf3+self.bf4)) 19:46:54 "def bfarg(x,y):\n p=y.group(2)\n a=y.group(3)+unichr(0)\n o=''\n p=p+'!'\n t=[0]*30000\n i=0\n l=0\n while p[i]!='!':\n if p[i]=='[' and t[l]==0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c+1\n if p[i]==']': c=c-1\n if p[i]==']' and t[l]!=0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i-1\n if p[i]==']': c=c+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c-1\n if p[i]=='+': t[l]=t[l]+1\n 19:46:54 if p[i]=='-': t[l]=t[l]-1\n if p[i]=='<': l=l-1\n if p[i]=='>': l=l+1\n if p[i]=='.': o=o+unichr(t[l])\n if p[i]==',':\n t[l]=ord(a[0])\n a=a[1:]\n i=i+1\n sys.stdout(o)\nself.register_raw(r'\\S+ PRIVMSG (\\S+) :~bf ([^!]*)!?(.*)',bfarg)" 19:47:05 what is x and y 19:47:28 x is ignored. y is a regex whose second and third groups give the program and input, respectively 19:47:44 in python how would i construct one of those regexps? 19:47:44 so that bfarg is an appropriate raw_regex_queue callback 19:48:19 r"\S+ PRIVMSG (\S+) :~bf ([^!]*)!?(.*)" 19:48:29 is the regex that I used (retyped, so I may have typoed) 19:48:39 it just matches raw IRC data 19:48:58 bfarg wasn't really designed with being called from anything else in mind 19:49:20 but you could just concatenate a string with ! in between, match a regex against it somehow, and then use that as bfarg input 19:49:24 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:49:39 ok 19:49:40 well the idea 19:49:47 is that you just use the http functions of python 19:49:49 (in urllib2) 19:49:50 with that. 19:49:55 define a nice handler for it 19:49:57 ~bfurl or something 19:50:58 I don't actually know Python. That BF interpreter was my first program. After all, BF interpreters are easy to write, right? 19:52:44 hm 19:52:53 what's the bash way to get an absolute path given a relative path 19:52:57 (assumed relative to current directory?) 19:53:57 ah 19:53:58 ill ask in #bash 19:54:33 you could do /dev/env/pwd/path, but that's cheating 19:55:06 `pwd`/path perhaps? 19:55:11 ehird`: What I always do is: OLDPWD="$PWD" ; cd "$SOMEPATH" ; FULLPATH="$PWD" ; cd "$OLDPWD" 19:55:18 oerjan: That's bad if it actually is a full path. 19:55:29 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 19:55:34 (Presumably one would want to accept either) 19:55:36 GregorR: OK, the Ruby GUI toolkit 'Shoes' needs to be run in its own directory 19:55:40 I'm writing a wrapper function around it 19:55:44 to pushd/RUN/popd 19:55:52 but i ofc want to specify relative paths (and possibly absolute ones) 19:55:58 How would I write the func with your way? 19:56:08 Well, pushd takes relative paths anyway ... 19:56:20 no 19:56:22 pushd /shoes/dir 19:56:27 ./shoes BLAH 19:56:27 popd 19:56:33 Uh, that's not a relative path. 19:56:35 BLAH needs to be absolute of course 19:56:38 uh 19:56:39 i'm doing 19:56:48 shoes() { pushd /shoes/dir; ./shoes BLAH; popd } 19:56:50 but 19:56:51 what is BLAH 19:56:57 since i may call "shoes" in a directory with a relative path 19:57:27 I think my trick is right. 19:57:50 When you're in the directory it's relative to, just pushd to it and then save your $PWD 19:57:50 I don't see how it would work. 19:57:59 What if I do 19:58:02 shoes /an/absolute/path 19:58:19 pushd /an/absolute/path pushes to that absolute path. 19:58:35 No. 19:58:37 I don't do that. 19:58:42 I do pushd /path/to/shoes 19:58:59 * GregorR bashes his head into the wall. 19:59:13 BEFORE changing the directory at all 19:59:18 Do what? 19:59:33 Wait, are you saying you pushd /relative/path/that/starts/with/a/slash? 20:01:23 I can only reiterate, because I know for a fact that my method works: Before you've changed the directory at all, pushd to your path. Whether it's relative or absolute, you'll end up in the right place. Then just store $PWD and popd, and you're golden. 20:01:39 I am not pushd'ing to any user defined path. 20:01:47 the app "shoes" must be started from /path/to/shoes 20:01:58 I want an alias "notshoes" so I can do "notshoes file-in-current-dir" 20:02:03 notshoes will "pushd /path/to/shoes" 20:02:04 run shoes 20:02:06 then "popd" 20:02:12 but, when i run shoes, it will obviously need an absolute path 20:02:16 I am wondering how to calculate it. 20:02:22 And, I cannot do $PWD/$1 before hand, 20:02:27 because I may do "notshoes /abs/path" 20:02:34 That's exactly what my method describes. 20:02:58 (Mind, I didn't realize you were talking about a file, so you'd need e.g. pushd `dirname $foo` etc, but otherwise it's the same) 20:03:46 I don't. ever. pushd. with. a. variable. 20:04:03 this is one advantage that Emacs has over bash in processing paths 20:04:30 ~msg #esoteric // or /~ anywhere in the directory rename resets to the root or the home directory respectively 20:05:03 so that $PWD/$1 would actually work if emacs supported dollar-notation 20:05:25 ehird`: I know you don't. You SHOULD, to get the information you need X_X 20:05:44 GregorR: write me "notshoes", because i don't think you know what i'm trying to make it do 20:06:14 * ais523 is annoyed with themself for messing up the syntax for sending a message starting with / 20:06:55 ehird`: http://pastebin.ca/792890 20:08:35 that leaves me in the dir of shoes 20:08:52 also, function!=bash script 20:09:18 -!- peyavi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:09:26 There is no function here ... 20:09:36 And I thought the whole idea was that you needed to run shoes from its own dir? 20:10:12 i /want/ a function, is what i mean 20:10:13 and 20:10:13 yes 20:10:16 but after running shoes 20:10:17 with that script 20:10:20 i get dumped into shoes' dir 20:10:31 No you don't, that's not how scripts work. 20:10:36 Plus, just add a popd. 20:10:47 It's easy enough to put that in a function, there's nothing non-function-specific about that code. 20:11:09 but bah i've got it working 20:15:57 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:37:07 I'm sure the keyword "aromabic" will help :P (/me hunts) 20:37:18 actually it is Arombiac 20:37:27 although that doesn't show up either 20:40:18 no idea why it isn't in the tunes.org logs 20:52:46 ehird`: I'd love to see what your method is. 20:53:09 GregorR: craziness 20:54:20 Pastebin? 20:55:01 it doesn't support absolute paths. 20:55:10 jeebus 20:55:20 i was watching some old people talk about sex on pbs 20:55:36 OK, so my method, which supports both relative and absolute paths, is unacceptable because? 20:55:57 "we see a strong relationship between overall health and sexual health" 20:56:07 "lubrication can help when vaginal dryness is an issue" 20:56:25 bsmntbombdood: I care so little I can't even explain it. 20:56:36 sooooo insightful 20:57:02 * oerjan hands GregorR a microscope 20:57:29 I hope this is an electron microscope. 20:57:38 GregorR: wait no it is your method 20:57:49 ... ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh kay :P 20:58:58 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417]"). 20:59:47 function shoes { 20:59:47 pushd "`dirname $1`" > /dev/null 20:59:47 FULLNAME="$PWD/`basename $1`" 20:59:47 popd > /dev/null 20:59:47 pushd ~/shoes/dist > /dev/null 20:59:48 ./shoes $FULLNAME 20:59:50 popd > /dev/null 20:59:52 } 20:59:54 oops 20:59:56 sorry 21:00:10 Yup :P 21:00:13 Well, my work here is done. 21:02:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 21:19:06 21:21:13 21:23:09 I agree. 21:23:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:24:29 You see, what graue and ehird` have done here is made a strong statement on the true, underlying uncertainty and doubt of life. It's like they've said, "World, I have given up, I accept the fear and emptiness of life." It's a truly poetic statement. 21:24:42 oh, cool 21:27:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:28:04 AAAAAAAAAAA 21:28:12 *schmertz 21:30:10 * oerjan never got to the accepting part 21:48:51 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 21:49:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:20:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:20:21 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:31:34 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:31:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:42:02 hrm 22:43:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:52:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:52:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:25:06 -!- Possum has joined. 23:27:38 Hi Possum ;) 23:30:00 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 23:30:27 Hi Sgeo! 23:47:08 -!- Slereah has joined. 2007-11-22: 00:03:50 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:08:52 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:09:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:27:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:27:34 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:30:02 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:30:22 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:30:54 Sgeo! 00:30:57 what's the sine port again 00:30:59 xchat wiped it 00:31:03 just the port 00:31:25 9999 00:31:49 * Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). 00:32:19 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 00:32:36 -!- ehird` has joined. 00:32:46 Sgeo: i just can't join 00:32:48 i get that each time 00:32:53 hm? 00:32:54 ugh 00:32:56 it reset 00:33:00 AGAIN 00:51:39 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:04:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:04:28 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:04:48 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:12:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:12:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:47:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:51:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:19:45 -!- Slereah- has joined. 03:20:25 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:20:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:26:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:29:04 -!- immibis has joined. 03:34:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:40:02 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:22:21 * immibis made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around. 04:22:32 http://kevan.org/rubicon/game.php?level=rybibir 05:16:44 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:19:00 how long do flies live... this guy is still moving his feet around :O 05:19:05 no buzzing though 05:19:27 i guess it's a chick, though. 05:26:04 * immibis repeats that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around. 05:36:01 * immibis repeats his repeated statement that he made a rubicon level/program that outputs the first 7 fibonacci numbers in under 10 seconds, and after that the numbers get higher than 15 and wrap around. 05:49:43 * immibis repeats his statement and asks if anyone who views it could tell me so i know how many people are interested nin rubicon 05:55:16 hello? 06:01:49 stfu 06:02:38 y 06:04:13 rubicon is based on an esoteric language, RUBE, therefore you can write programs with it. 06:10:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:15:18 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:45:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:45:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:31:41 -!- dbc has joined. 07:34:23 * immibis finds that rubicon keeps crashing firefox 07:34:50 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:35:02 hi 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:28 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. For Sale: Parachute. Only used once). 08:04:08 -!- AnMaster has joined. 08:25:44 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 08:46:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:07:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 09:18:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:33:36 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:46:59 -!- jix has joined. 13:30:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 13:42:18 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out). 14:33:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:35:13 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:35:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:05:40 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:16:07 hello everyone... 15:16:57 hello Tritonio_ 15:17:13 you have the first comment in the logs for today, well done 15:17:27 (the first action of all is immibis' quit message) 15:17:36 (and it even fit on the line for once) 15:18:19 ? 15:18:54 I just came across the article "Two envelopes problem" on Wikipedia 15:19:35 there are two envelopes, and one contains twice as much money as the other 15:20:18 and? 15:20:19 whichever one you take, it makes more sense to take the other one, as you have a 1 in 2 chance of doubling the amount of money you get and a 1 in 2 chance of halving the amount of money you get, so you get more on average 15:20:32 Take both. 15:20:36 lol 15:21:09 you don't get more on average 15:21:16 there's a version in which you're allowed to look in one of the envelopes first 15:21:27 so my reasoning is 'if it contains an odd amount of money, take the other one' 15:21:31 but this doesn't work in all cases 15:25:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:28:06 ais523: what's the reason? i've seen many paradoxes like these, and can't really see what goes wrong 15:28:49 I think the problem is thinking about 'which one you have at the moment' as having a certain value that you currently have 15:29:14 the difference in money between the two envelopes is fixed, although you don't know what it is 15:29:37 so the amount you might gain is the same as the amount you might lose 15:29:47 it's just a different proportion to the current envelope 15:33:12 i actually solved this one, and it's pretty trivial i think, but i'll say it anyway: you have three doors, behind one there's a car, and you get it if you guess right; you choose a door, and one of the other doors is opened, and it's empty; if you choose your original door, you get the car with 33% probability, if you change it, you get it with a 66% probability 15:33:41 this was in a book the gist of which was basically that statistics cannot be trusted 15:33:48 that's true and crazy at the same time 15:34:06 but it is easy to understand it if you imagine it with 1000 doors 15:34:13 you choose the first one 15:34:16 * oerjan drops a Monty Hall on oklopol 15:34:24 etc... 15:34:33 oerjan: what's that :D 15:34:33 oklopol: that's pretty easy to explain, the door that's opened depends on which door you chose and so gives you some information about what's behind the doors you did and didn't choose 15:34:34 i am still thinking about the envelopes... 15:34:44 ais523: yes, as i said, trivial 15:34:51 and i'm sure most will think so too here 15:34:55 "i'll say it anyway" 15:35:15 something big and heavy, i assume 15:35:18 well, just in case someone is watching and was wondering, or sees it in the logs 15:36:02 indeed 15:36:13 hmm... the fly from last night seems to be dead :O 15:37:15 did you expend any effort on trying to kill it? 15:38:17 no no, i let it die of natural causes 15:38:36 i only believe in euthanasy when it comes to people, and correct my typing 15:38:37 you should have put it into a complicated machine of pipes and valves and so on and let it act like an instruction pointer 15:38:51 but I suppose maybe you didn't have one to hand 15:39:15 i agree that would've been the most humane choise 15:40:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:46:12 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:47:39 -!- oklopol_ has joined. 15:47:46 ubuntu crashed again 15:47:50 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol. 15:49:37 how did you crash it? 15:49:44 and how easily did you recover? 15:50:47 -!- oklopol has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 15:50:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out). 15:50:51 whut 15:51:16 hmm 15:51:29 for a while some of the text was white 15:51:35 couldn't see it 15:51:52 i didn't really do anything to crash 15:51:52 it 15:52:18 i was doing some pythoning, but i was typing something on irc when it crashed 15:52:34 you just added http:// ? 15:52:38 yes 15:53:27 sort of took those away to make more room in the topic / make the topic shorter 15:53:52 "Don't spam... Don't spam... Don't spam..." 15:54:15 maybe we should make a new channel with the same purpose as #esoteric but where spamming is explicitly allowed 15:54:17 make those into one, and it'll be shorter, take http away, and make life hell for people like me who have a sucky client. 15:54:32 right, clicking... 15:54:49 ais523: #esoteric-blah, although it's just me and ehird, and neither is there right now :D 15:55:04 oklopol: another good channel to know about 15:55:19 well, it's not that allowed there either, or i'd spam it 24/7 15:56:10 i gotta get back on my thing -> 15:57:27 Is this still working? 15:58:07 no 15:58:24 bsmnt_bot: is what working? 15:59:02 ~exec 0 15:59:16 bsmnt_bot sends messages to where the last ~exec command was 15:59:36 leading to amusing situations like this one 15:59:46 ais523: since you are now the official ca guy here, i implemented rule 110 on bsmnt_bot once, changed topic accordingly :D 16:00:05 eh.. because of your guyness -> you must be interested to here ... 16:00:09 well, it was a Turing machine, not a CA 16:00:10 *hear 16:00:40 both are very limited substitution systems 16:00:51 and pretty similarly limited 16:01:02 but the parallelism makes quite a difference 16:01:29 true, in case that makes it less interesting, sorry i told ya ;) 16:01:38 tell me anyway 16:01:44 I'm also interested in CAs as it happens 16:01:56 well, that was pretty much it. 16:02:30 it was a python script, so not that hard 16:02:33 maybe we could create a Turing machine simulator on one of the bots 16:03:16 output is a problem there 16:03:22 if you want a 2d turing machine.. 16:03:30 why would ya 16:03:37 Well, 1D works just as well! 16:03:38 so... indeed, we could 16:04:03 yeah, should be pretty easy 16:04:07 *-yeah 16:10:10 you could effectively simulate a TM by writing the rules in Thue or Thutu 16:11:51 wow 16:11:54 it worked 16:11:57 finally 16:12:44 oklopol: what worked? 16:12:51 i may now have what i've always wanted: a way to play multiple sine waves at once 16:12:52 ... 16:13:08 that's quite easy with most sound cards 16:13:23 in theory. 16:13:23 OTOH, I came across a program once that could play chords out of the computer's internal speaker 16:13:31 yeah, i've seen that 16:13:35 'twas a proprietary game, so I have no idea how it managed it 16:14:07 well the speaker is fully deterministic at the moves of the cone 16:14:35 you can cheat by changing the frequency constantly, to get it to move anywhere you want 16:15:01 I thought of that, but wouldn't know how to go about working out the pattern 16:18:10 you gotta have the spec of the speaker or something 16:18:37 it's impossible to deduce the actual movements of the sound-nipple otherwise 16:19:45 what's __radd__ in python :\ 16:20:20 Sound nipple? 16:20:28 oh 16:20:40 Slereah-: yes, that's the official term 16:20:53 You learn things every day! 16:20:56 oklopol: what language is __radd__ in? 16:21:20 the pattern of underscores would suggest an extended version of C, but I don't know which 16:21:20 python 16:21:40 Slereah-: remember to pass everything you learn from me through a filter though 16:21:51 and 16:21:59 i think i know what it is 16:22:13 it applies when it's the right value of +! 16:22:14 Well, if it contains the word nipple, should I really filter it? 16:22:16 perhaps... 16:22:19 didn't check yet 16:22:38 Slereah-: yes, nipples are nsfep 16:22:50 not suitable for esoteric programming, tha is 16:22:52 *that 16:23:07 i guess cones don't have much to do with esolangs 16:23:16 Typing with your nipples can be painful indeed. 16:23:24 and i also guess you could make a lang out of nipples. 16:26:03 YEAH SO OKAY, I HAVE THE GREATEST IDEA FOR AN ESOLANG: NIPPLE, TITTIES, BOOBIES, KNOCKERS, BREASTS, HOOTERS, MELONS AND CANS USED AS THE 8 BRAINFUCK COMMANDS 16:26:21 nipple is out of place there 16:26:23 sorry about that 16:29:35 Don't worry. 16:31:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fnord"). 16:38:22 making variants on BF that only differ in the names for the commands isn't a very interesting thing to do once you've already seen 10 or 20 of them 16:38:45 the Braintwist- and Brainfork-like variants are more interesting 16:38:56 if there isn't one already, I propose a variant that does backtracking 16:41:50 ais523: my point exactly 16:42:10 brainfork is one of my favorites, even though i've never tried it :) 16:42:19 oh, now I realise why your post was in allcaps 16:42:28 yes. 16:43:48 soon i'll be composing symphonies in python 16:43:49 mwahahaha 16:44:46 hmm... i get an evil click between notes... any of ya have a good algo for anti-aliasing waves? :P 16:45:00 doesn't have to be good, just like, fairly decent 16:47:02 okay, i'll make it really stupid 16:47:12 but not stupid enough that i could explain it in an irc message 16:49:36 try waiting for the transition until a point when both the old and new sine wave have the same phase; that's the usual way to get rid of clicks 16:49:52 hmm, it's too generic for that to be possible 16:49:56 i allow for any wave function 16:50:20 i'll just make it fade in every separate set of bytes to output as sound data. 16:51:09 you have to be able to play any set of sounds for any amount of bytes 16:51:24 and then continue with any set of sounds for any amount of bytes without a click 16:51:28 otherwise it's of no use. 16:51:34 well 16:51:37 some use, but less 16:55:02 maybe you could phase-shift the second sound to match the first? In theory, it ought to sound the same except for the click 16:55:14 but that'll need Fourier transforms as far as I know 16:56:43 ah 16:57:12 it should be possible to scroll the waves forward until the cone positions match 16:57:14 at least 16:57:45 the problem is it doesn't suffice if the function is continuous, the human ear will notice a sudden change in derivative 16:58:54 less clicky, though 16:59:23 hmm 16:59:27 i'll do like this 16:59:34 if i can explain this... i'll try 17:01:56 hmm-1 0 1 2 3 4 5 || this is where we last stopped, now getting 8 9 10 to output, so we reverse the end of our last input except the very last, to get, say: 4 3 2 1; now 5 was the last one we actually output, so we iterate the start of what we need to output now, and always average it with 17:01:59 whoops 17:02:02 i tried to del that 17:02:06 too hard to explain... 17:02:37 "too hard to explain...": that's a good property for esolangs to have, surely? 17:02:54 this is not an esolang yet 17:03:03 although i *am* planning to add one over it. 17:03:24 where's rodger :\ 17:03:28 i haven't seen him for years 17:10:04 god it gets complicated if i make it do phase-shifts... 17:10:22 i'll do it though, since i didn't get this to work right away :P 17:10:33 RodgerTheGreat Last Seen: 5 days (23h 21m 47s) ago 17:14:46 the problem is i don't want the player to need to know about waves... 17:14:57 so i need to move the problem one level up 17:15:16 which clutters things a bit unless i do some refactorizationing 17:15:49 * ais523 is getting annoyed at a stupid website they're forced to use 17:16:15 it decides it doesn't support the browser I'm using because it's Firefox 2, not Firefox 1 or 1.5 17:16:21 so it isn't on the supported list 17:17:13 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:25:13 -!- ais523 has quit ("look, it's a quit message injection atttack:"; Remote closed the connection // comment out the rest"). 17:29:55 damn 17:30:09 i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :< 17:35:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:36:16 i now do the phase shift, no effect whatsoever :< 17:37:07 I'm not sure I can help you there, then, even though I'm supposed to be doing a degree in this sort of thing 17:37:33 okay, tracked one place with audacity 17:37:42 there's like a million little wave bumps 17:37:49 and a slight change in one of them 17:37:56 and it makes a clikc 17:37:58 *click 17:38:35 i know it's not the human ear that does it, since it's an actual click, perhaps my point is there should be antialiasing on a lower lever for idiots like me 17:39:55 the click is how you hear any sudden jump in amplitude level 17:40:17 i'm pretty sure it's the speaker that does it. 17:40:23 i mean 17:40:44 i'm pretty sure it amplifies it because it can't do a sudden jump like that 17:40:45 hmm 17:40:52 that sounds ridiculous, you're prolly right 17:47:31 hmm 17:47:32 okay 17:47:46 i found a problem in that technique 17:47:49 and perhaps solved it 17:49:11 basically, if the frequency is only changed a little, it so happens to phase will move just enough for it to be too far away from the last point to continue there, so it is iterated until it comes down, making every splitpoint an arrow pointing upwards 17:54:34 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:54:41 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:04:53 okay, there's almost no clicks no 18:05:04 far better than using winsound.Beep at least 18:18:13 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p525354434.txt the clicks are now only audible when a note is played twice in succession, which *should* make it fully legato it to the last note. 18:18:54 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 18:19:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:20:09 also there's something wrong with my wave adder, because the chords in the end make a clashing sound 18:20:23 and got i suck at onomatopoeia in english 18:23:35 (at least comment on my terrific melody!) 18:27:47 -!- lusum has joined. 18:35:08 hi lusu 18:35:10 m 18:36:27 this machine doesn't have sound, so I can't check it for myself 18:37:01 or rather, probably it does, but I'm accessing a mainframe from a terminal and I hate what to think would happen if your music ended up blaring out full volume in the server room 18:39:16 :D 18:39:44 my music is not very suitable for hearing 18:40:10 especially pieces i type without thinking at all in 78 seconds 18:52:09 have you ever listened to my 'Hello, World' program in Fugue? 18:52:19 it's a bit of an acquired taste 18:53:39 Fugue? 18:53:53 your hello world in fugue? 18:54:58 die kunst der fugue 18:58:28 ais523: link1 18:59:03 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/fugue/src/hworld.mid 19:00:05 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 19:02:11 i can't play mids :\ 19:03:49 then go to http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Image:Hworld.png and play it on a piano 19:04:26 Fugue source works a lot better in MIDI because that makes it a lot easier for a computer to figure out the intervals 19:31:26 hi oklopol 19:31:50 hello lusum 19:32:04 hello ais523 19:32:15 I may as well say hello too 19:32:44 -!- pikhq_ has changed nick to pikhq. 19:33:49 pikhq: you can't do that, now we're down to only three underscored accounts (4 counting bsmnt_bot) 19:34:23 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_. 19:35:38 Tough. 19:36:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 19:39:21 -!- ais523 has quit ("because I have to quit sometime if I want to go home"). 19:45:05 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:45:32 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 19:51:36 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:59:49 -!- lusum has left (?). 20:28:12 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:55:21 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:03:11 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 21:06:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:13:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:16:44 MUAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH 21:18:08 xxxxxXDDSDXXZDDD 21:20:06 * oerjan wonders what is going on here 21:20:48 didn't you get the joke? 21:21:19 indeed not 21:21:53 well, earlier i mentioned 110, puzzlet just implied in his quit msg, that he read "110" as "Connection reset by peer" 21:22:06 which is a pretty serious failure at readin 21:22:07 *g 21:22:10 so we laughed 21:22:21 *mentioned rule 110 21:23:13 Hahaha, how can people be that stupid? 21:23:15 I mean, 110? 21:23:16 Hahahaha 21:23:58 yeah, i'm still lolling too! 21:24:02 but i gotta go to sleep now, really 21:24:12 even though it's not actually late yet 21:24:20 -----------------> 21:25:26 er... thanks to the excellent prior advice of GregorR i am pretty sure those were _not_ user-supplied quit messages? 21:27:06 * oerjan decides you are putting him on 21:27:29 *snaps* 21:27:40 I tried to roll with it :P 21:32:26 MUAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHHAHHAAHAAAAAHHH 22:02:55 * oerjan doesn't think you got his joke either 22:11:52 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:50:27 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 2007-11-23: 00:10:39 -!- calamari has joined. 00:15:59 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:24:12 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:20:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 03:25:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:26:08 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:26:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:27:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:27:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:32:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:10:35 -!- immibis has joined. 05:12:04 * immibis keeps crashing firefox by playing rubicon too much 05:15:08 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:21:33 -!- TheProphet has joined. 05:23:20 Please tell a story. 05:25:10 Once upon a time there was a poor GregorR who invented a language called IRP. This eventually made many people on #esoteric angry, and has generally been considered a bad move. 05:25:53 Gregor would be executed for this crime. However, he has done enough good for #esoteric to have made amends for this. 05:26:24 He is, however, given forty lashes every time an IRP'er appears for his crimes. 05:26:40 Of course. 05:26:57 Every new IRP'er is more pain to #esoteric, which most be mended. 05:32:03 hawt 05:32:07 pics plz 05:32:20 This is *Gregor*. 05:32:36 so? 05:32:44 Hmm. 05:32:49 BDSM hat fetish. 05:33:03 fap fap fap fap 05:33:04 With a pasty-white geek. 05:33:50 i met this guy tongiht 05:33:53 *tonight 05:33:55 SEXAY 05:34:29 Hey, I'm not pasty-white 8-O 05:34:33 I'm more oddly-red. 05:34:40 Oh. 05:34:52 I bet you would be after the lashings. 05:35:57 what are these lashings being done with? 05:36:07 A bundle of switches. 05:36:51 hmm 05:38:03 -!- immibis_ has joined. 05:41:27 theprophet: irp is in irp 05:41:32 -!- immibis has quit (Nick collision from services.). 05:41:33 -!- immibis_ has changed nick to immibis. 05:41:41 i mean #irp 05:56:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 06:39:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:40:23 lol @ xkcd 06:47:56 -!- TheProphet has quit ("Leaving"). 06:54:20 everyone of #esoteric should learn morse code 06:54:37 and we should have a forum of esoteric where only morse is allowed 06:55:43 what is morse code for a question mark? 06:55:54 * immibis crashes firefox yet again 06:57:04 * immibis wonders how many people here even know rubicon exists. 06:57:16 ..--.. 06:57:26 ... 06:57:32 not morse code. 06:57:48 i mean my "..." was not intended to be interpreted as morse code for EEE 06:58:35 i wonder how long it would take to learn morse code to a decent speed 07:07:31 * immibis thinks he's made a rubicon bubble sort. 07:08:31 * immibis finds a bug in it 07:10:59 * immibis fixes the bug 07:13:08 * immibis again wonders aloud how many people in this channel know rubicon exists. 07:21:04 Heh, I just went from "what's a packrat parser" to "my packrat parser works" in 1.5 hours. 07:21:49 what's a packrat parser anyway? 07:22:16 * immibis asks for everyone who knows what rubicon is to say yes and for everyone else to say no. 07:22:32 could everyone who knows what rubicon is say yes and could everyone else say no? 07:26:25 As it turns out, the reason nothing seems to describe what a packrat parser is in detail is because it's really mind-bogglingly simple. 07:26:32 All it is is a memoized recursive descent parser. 07:27:16 memoized? 07:27:32 Memoization == save the result and use that saved result if you're called again. 07:27:56 And no, I don't know what rubicon is, but I'm too stubborn to just say "no" 8-D 07:28:42 rubicon is a game based on the RUBE language. 07:29:10 RUBE is an esoteric language based on the idea of making a program out of a Rube Goldberg machine 07:29:29 Soooo, rubicon == The Incredible Machine? 07:29:45 you can make programs in it too. i've made a 1-digit fibonacci sequence calculator and a thing to square a number in modulo 16. 07:29:49 gregorr: no 07:29:55 different sorts of parts 07:30:02 http://kevan.org/rubicon/ 07:32:32 Rubicon uses most of the parts from RUBE. 07:39:42 * immibis asks gregorr if he has visited that page yet 07:39:50 gregorr, have you visited that page yet? 07:42:58 I'm just staring a bit blankly at it :P 07:43:10 Did you write this or just find it? 07:43:54 just found it. 07:43:59 on http://esolangs.org/wiki/RUBE 07:44:01 lol 07:50:10 * immibis almost crashes firefox for the (n^(10^(10^100)))'th time. 07:50:25 * immibis warns gregorr that if he tries to play it it may occasionally crash his browser 07:50:54 oh and at school many people think 1^2 is 2. 07:51:11 Awesome. 07:51:23 1^2 should be 3 07:51:36 ^ = 2 th pwr ov 07:51:49 * GregorR agrees with puzzlet 07:51:57 1^2 is clearly 3 07:52:01 2^2, however, is 0 07:52:53 * immibis means to the power of, not xor. 07:52:59 Clearly :P 07:53:05 by the same token, adding 1 and 2 = 0 07:54:40 if you take it as (add (1 and 2)) 07:55:43 goodnight 07:55:48 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If your not living on the edge, you). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 11:11:50 hmph 11:11:59 why isn't immibis ever here when i am 11:12:45 also, (1 and 2) = 2, (add 2) is clearly 2 11:44:32 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 11:45:48 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:45:53 Hi! 11:46:35 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:48:21 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 11:48:49 I have an idea. Doh. You'll hate it, but... Combine Deadfish, Deadfish~ and HQ9+ 11:50:18 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 11:50:27 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:51:16 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 11:54:53 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:54:55 Deadfish-- 11:54:55 i or + - incerase the accumulator 11:54:55 d or - - decrase the accumulator 11:54:55 s or ^ - square the accumulator 11:54:55 o or : - output 11:54:56 ____ 11:54:58 C or . - output as a character 11:55:00 h or H - say "Hello World" 11:55:02 Z - If the accumulator is non-zero, skip [the value of accumulator] commands. 11:55:04 n - NOP 11:55:06 X - If the accumulator is zero, halt. 11:55:08 } - execute the next command [the value of accumulator] times. 11:56:00 also 11:56:01 > - push the accumulator 11:56:01 < - pop to accumulator 11:56:35 12 commands :O 11:57:00 no more, no less 11:57:04 yeah 11:57:08 Do you like it? 11:58:04 ++}^^>^^.<: 11:58:09 add a goto 11:58:24 You can use Z as a goto. 11:58:37 see? 11:58:46 no. 11:58:47 You can't go back, and that's the point too. 11:58:56 iiiZdddo 11:59:01 it should do iiio. 11:59:09 ;) 11:59:17 or 11:59:18 well duh. i meant a jump backwards. 11:59:25 No. It's the point. 11:59:35 Ok 11:59:41 I'll add one more command to make it 13 11:59:47 nonono 11:59:55 so no jumping backwards 11:59:56 Z will do 11:59:57 ok? 12:00:01 ok 12:00:02 So 12:00:02 just remove the squaring command 12:00:06 NO! 12:00:09 and add a (^3) comman 12:00:10 *command 12:00:23 IT'S ONE OF THE MOST BASIC FEATURES! 12:00:28 I'LL BREAK DEADFISH WITH IT 12:00:35 and then we'll have 11 commands 12:00:37 and you said 12:00:39 square does not preserve sign 12:00:44 ok 12:00:46 so no sign 12:00:50 ... 12:00:54 ++}ss>ss.<: 12:00:59 but s command will be still there 12:01:13 no ^, but still s. 12:01:26 what now? 12:01:32 glah. 12:01:47 do you like it? 12:02:22 a language with decrement + cubing and calculated gotos might be interesting 12:02:42 So go and make it. 12:02:50 If you don't like it, make one you like! 12:02:57 Or extend/delete commands! 12:03:01 extend the commandset 12:03:05 delete commands you hate 12:20:50 hello? 12:22:01 ...zorp 12:22:11 i need to leave soon 12:22:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:22:30 gotta go listen to nile 12:33:57 -!- jix has joined. 12:35:22 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 12:46:13 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 12:49:47 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:55:29 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 13:37:38 -!- asiekierka has quit. 14:07:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:10:27 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 14:15:00 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:16:47 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:17:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:18:19 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:19:34 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:20:45 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:21:45 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:28:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:48:50 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:48:52 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:07:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:27:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:27:06 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:35:01 -!- jix has joined. 17:35:50 it's been nothing but quit/join/nick messages for too long now 17:36:45 ais523: LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS 17:37:07 surely there are more sorts of lies than that 17:37:17 and besides, statistics can be used to support any viewpoint, even the truth 17:42:42 but that's boring 17:43:19 you could support the truth in an invalid way 17:43:38 you know, like pointing out the strong negative correlation between pirates and global warning 17:43:52 *warming, but actually I prefer the typo 17:44:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:45:08 global waning, global warring, global whamming 17:45:22 global warbling 17:45:51 global wrangling 17:46:14 global warping, of course 17:47:13 global harming 17:47:18 global charming 17:47:34 global farming 17:48:02 global warting 17:48:17 Local warming. 17:48:25 global farting (by cows) 17:48:37 according to QI, termites are worse 17:49:34 global karting 17:49:42 global carving 17:49:56 i never meth ane termite that farted 17:50:15 that pun was so bad it took me several seconds to get it 17:50:17 Warming: Global 17:50:55 otoh i don't think we have termites in norway 17:51:30 * ais523 is trying to remember what a turmite is 17:51:37 * ais523 remembered while typing the previous comment 17:52:04 it's a sort of cellular automaton in more than one dimension with movements like forward/back/turn left/turn right rather than up/down/left/right 17:52:18 Langton's Ant is possibly the most famous example 17:52:44 you'd imagine so, by the name 17:53:41 I wonder how usable-for-computation the Ant is 17:54:23 there might be some way to set up some sort of infinite network with the ant moving from one cell to the next to simulate some sort of universal machine 17:54:30 maybe a two-counter machine in the two dimensions? 17:54:59 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:57:57 The Ant is Turing complete, so the answer is "very". :p 17:58:45 it is? 17:58:50 really? 17:59:02 I thought it was nothing more than a 2-dimensional Turing machine. 17:59:13 Correct me if I'm wrong. ;) 17:59:22 it is not just any of them 17:59:24 not all Turing machines are Turing complete 17:59:28 but a specific one 17:59:29 . . . Oh, right. 17:59:37 otherwise winning $25000 would have been somewhat trivial 17:59:46 my impression from the wikipedia article is it may be unknown: 17:59:47 True, true. 18:00:03 Other initial configurations seem eventually to converge to similar repetitive patterns suggesting that the "highway" is an attractor of Langton's ant, but no one has been able to prove that this is true for all initial configurations. It is only known that ant's trajectory is always unbounded regardless of the initial configuration 18:00:49 if it _is_ always true that it turns repetitive then it cannot be TC since you could solve the halting problem 18:01:13 that would prove it couldn't be TC with a finitely-many-nonblank-cells initial condition 18:01:25 hm, right 18:01:28 a repeating pattern or a nested pattern might work 18:05:33 the easiest way to get the Ant from place to place is to guide it along a one-pixel-wide path 18:05:47 the problem with doing this is that the path moves one pixel sideways in the process 18:24:18 -!- RedDak has joined. 18:28:20 -!- Jontte has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:29:35 -!- Jontte has joined. 18:47:08 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:06:40 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:18:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:20:28 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:20:30 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 19:28:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 19:43:09 -!- luke-jr has joined. 19:43:25 -!- luke-jr has left (?). 19:47:46 Sgeo! 19:47:53 Slereah-! 19:48:01 Creature 3 won't install! 20:06:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:06:59 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:23:36 -!- Alvin^ has joined. 20:38:28 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:44:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 21:05:54 Slereah-, oO 21:05:58 Slereah-, will DS install? 21:07:36 What will be the point if I can't install C3 first? 21:08:27 Why won't C3 install? 21:08:36 And I've installed C3 after DS >.> 21:10:37 It just won't launch. 21:11:00 Well, then again, it's only the autorun on the CD. Maybe I can just launch the install directly, thinking about it 21:12:25 Well, it installs. 21:12:27 Oh, when you get C3 installed, be sure to do Update 2 21:23:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:23:56 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:05:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:00:06 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:00:08 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 2007-11-24: 00:06:26 -!- Alvin^ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:23:07 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 00:23:18 -!- wolfy has joined. 00:24:12 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 00:33:10 -!- ehird` has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:41:10 -!- wolfy has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:40:51 -!- immibis has joined. 01:53:16 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. OUCH!!!"). 02:33:19 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:02:52 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:57:16 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:57:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:02:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:08:30 -!- puzzlet__ has joined. 05:13:46 -!- puzzlet_1 has joined. 05:14:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out). 05:20:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 05:20:50 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:23:01 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out). 05:25:06 -!- puzzlet_1 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:26:00 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:26:16 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:32:15 -!- puzzlet__ has joined. 05:39:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:44:00 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:58:31 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:58:33 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:21:09 -!- immibis has joined. 06:22:11 * immibis was asked by google "Did you mean: Interfering with wikipedia?" 06:27:48 o_O 06:28:55 * immibis searched for "interfacing with wikipedia" 06:29:13 ic 06:31:05 まちがった、ね。 06:32:09 * immibis 's client does not display characters as UTF-8 06:32:30 * oklopol needs to learn some japans 06:32:42 * oerjan almost assumed pikhq was being confused, with all those question marks 06:33:01 oerjan: it was a string of characters encoded as UTF-8 06:33:10 oklopol: there's only one japan 06:33:11 i know that 06:33:27 but sometimes i forget 06:33:46 * immibis is annoyed that the creator of rubicon won't release its source code 06:47:15 * pikhq declares that the lack of source code denies it from being an esolang 06:48:03 Oh, RUBE is the esolang. 06:48:31 Which just means that I should go bow before my shrine to cpressy for a bit. 06:48:50 picture! 06:49:23 It's nonexistent. 06:49:27 Although I should make one. 06:49:38 * pikhq gets the Befunge source code printed out 06:54:46 I intend to sleep. This is an unregulated action. 06:54:51 I cause the AFO to do the same. 07:06:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:06:14 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:10:23 weeeeeeeel 07:10:42 SUP BITCHES 07:16:17 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:16:19 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:26:36 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:33:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out). 07:38:24 * immibis 's browser tried to display a backup as a webpage. 07:42:24 [20:42] ->> #esoteric :No such nick/channel 07:42:54 LIES 07:43:00 no not a lie 07:43:08 i said /invite #esoteric #hadjin 07:43:20 so the server said #esoteric: No such nick/channel 07:44:07 sounds like a lie to me 07:45:30 no one could vote for kucinich! 07:45:34 his wife is too hot! 07:46:08 oerjan: /invite #something #something_else 07:53:11 hm... why is there about a _page_ of invites to #hadjin in my status window... 07:54:37 because i wanted to find out how long it would take you to notice? 07:55:36 nah, even you cannot be _that_ annoying *ducks* 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:06:30 -!- immibis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:14:33 -!- asiekierka has joined. 08:16:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 08:43:47 -!- jix has joined. 10:05:26 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:05:27 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:18:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:26:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:24:57 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:41:55 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:42:05 -!- jix has joined. 12:14:07 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:18:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:18:44 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 13:33:20 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:47:03 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 14:49:14 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:54:09 osht 14:54:11 not ehird` 14:54:19 rolleyes 14:54:25 i'm here every day, in case you didn't notice 15:57:52 But you hate me. 16:19:44 -!- Figs4 has joined. 16:20:15 -!- Figs4 has changed nick to Figs. 16:20:44 Hello 16:21:14 Hello3 16:21:40 Is "multiple dispatch" really any different than overloading on C-style functions? 16:21:57 (ie, not owned by an object) 16:22:23 or am I missing the concept? :P 16:22:30 {I assume I am} 16:23:47 Oh... I think I see it 16:24:12 You are missing the concept 16:24:15 :) 16:24:43 yeah, I think I just got it 16:26:16 if I have a collide(collidable x, collidable y) where collidable is abstract... then in Java/C++-like languages it won't actually go ahead and automatically call say collide(spaceship x,asteroid y)... 16:26:54 that's the difference, right? 16:27:27 (or as nearly as I can explain it in my crappy thought->writing attempt) 16:27:44 um, kind of 16:27:46 yay for mangled language terms :D 16:27:47 wikipedia :P 16:27:53 wikipedia confused me :P 16:28:03 but I think I got it 16:28:06 now 16:28:07 :P 16:28:39 yay. 16:28:41 ok 16:28:55 I've been thinking about a lot of weird shit this morning. 16:29:06 Data representation. 16:29:47 Hi. 16:29:53 Howdy 16:29:55 Hi Slereah, ehird` and Figs. 16:30:27 I feel crazy. :D 16:30:32 whee. 16:31:15 type systems, object orientation, constraints, logic, generics, functional programing, etc... @_@ 16:33:05 i really want an esolang like befunge but with no data storage apart from the code field 16:33:05 :D 16:33:21 and no control structures except conditional ways to shift about stuff in the code field 16:33:25 It would be interesting if we had a proper Type data type in regular programming that we could later instantiate... 16:33:44 We do. 16:34:01 in some languages :) 16:34:07 It's called 'Class'. You'll find it in Smalltalk, Ruby, and several others. 16:34:12 In Io, it's called Object. 16:34:23 Because there are no classes. You just clone objects, modify them, and later clone them to create 'instances' 16:34:47 prototype OO? :) 16:35:56 yep 16:35:56 :D 16:36:01 Io is very nice 16:36:04 it has no keywords 16:36:06 zilch 16:36:13 do you read Squidi? 16:36:22 take a look at the sample code: http://www.iolanguage.com/about/samplecode/ 16:37:25 he's been posting for a while about a procedural generation concept for games that he's been thinking about for a while, and I think he's basically reinvented generics and inheritance in a different context 16:38:07 which got me thinking about how we represent data in general 16:39:46 IO isn't supposed to be esoteric, is it? 16:40:46 no, it isn't 16:40:52 but it is certainly esoteric in parts 16:40:54 all good languages are :) 16:41:02 :P 16:41:27 * Figs points to the mathematicians and logicians 16:43:16 I've been thinking that there's a second way to classify types other than inheritance: any type that matches some constrains (ex, has a property P, does ___, etc.) 16:43:16 Phew, I'm off the hook. 16:43:30 hardly a new idea, of course :) 16:43:49 but it's got my head running around again, I guess. 16:44:26 and yes 16:44:28 that's ducktyping 16:44:49 I was thinking of something slightly different from ducktyping, I think 16:45:05 ie, creation of new types later that effectively act as parents explicitly 16:45:14 without having inheritance hierarchies 16:45:22 (in the traditional sense) 16:46:47 object Foo { property A,B,C... }; type Foo-Like {has A,B,C...} 16:48:18 yes 16:48:20 ducktyping 16:48:26 except "has" and "property" are implicit 16:49:36 I guess you could think of it as an explicit version of ducktyping 16:49:50 that's probably the best way to talk about it, I guess. 16:49:56 that's bad, though 16:50:10 ducktyping is all about implicitness in semantics, why add explicitness in syntax? 16:50:52 object Cat {...} type Mammal {...} myFunction(Mammal xyz) {...}? 16:51:31 class cat { ... } 16:51:35 class mammal { ... } 16:51:59 object and type were just the words that came to mind, how you do it doesn't matter :P 16:52:01 myFunction(xyz with-method make_sound) { xyz.make_sound(); } 16:52:13 myFunction(new cat) # meow 16:52:23 myFunction(new mammal) # not-implemented-error 16:52:30 myFunction(new object) # no matching function found 16:52:53 you'd have to type xyz with-method make_sound over and over though, no? 16:53:32 (if you have a bunch of functions that operated on things that make sounds) 16:54:03 class mytype = with-method make_sound; 16:54:09 myFunction(mytype xyz) { ... } 16:54:21 there you go, that's exactly what I'm talking about :) 16:54:36 just different syntax from what I wrote above 16:54:52 but that's what I was trying to say 16:55:11 my ability to express things today has just been shitty :P 16:55:36 no 16:55:38 because class cat 16:55:40 and class mammal 16:55:43 wouldn't have "has" 16:55:44 or "property" 16:55:55 well, Foo-Like is similar 16:55:59 but there is no "property a,b,c" 16:56:01 it's implicit 16:56:05 with-method is just the same as "has" as far as I'm thinking 16:56:22 I'm not really thinking about a specific syntax, just a general idea of relating things 16:57:03 its duck typing 16:57:16 ok 16:57:36 what language uses "class mytype = with-method make_sound;"? I'd like to take a better look at it 17:05:41 -!- ehird`_ has joined. 17:06:05 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:06:13 :( 17:07:27 heh 17:07:31 yay! 17:07:37 and what language? 17:07:41 ? 17:07:43 none! it was pseudocode :-) 17:07:47 ah 17:07:54 i can make a language for it if you want 17:07:54 :P 17:08:01 :P 17:08:17 what I mean, I guess is that a lot of what I understand of duck typing would basically be like 17:08:37 function Foo(a) { a.quack(); a.walkLikeDuck(); } 17:09:10 that is duck typing 17:09:16 mine just has checks. 17:09:24 but it is basically equiv to your example 17:09:26 eh, 17:09:28 what I mean is 17:09:46 you'd have to look in the method for the quack() and the walkLikeDuck() 17:10:31 instead of seeing Foo(Duck a) {...now I know that 'a' must quack() and walkLikeDuck() without actually looking through the function...} 17:11:17 but my class DonaldDuck doesn't ever have to declare that it is-a duck [through inheritance, etc] 17:11:59 this is a syntax issue 17:12:10 mostly 17:13:32 I'm just sort of poking at the border between generics and duck typing, I guess 17:13:38 + length [1 2 3] sum map lambda [x] [* x 2] [4 5 6] <-- pretty esoteric looking, isn't it? 17:13:53 what is it? Haskell? 17:14:17 and yes 17:14:56 nah, i cooked it up just now 17:15:03 ah :P 17:15:06 it's just "func args", where args is a fixed number 17:15:11 and, of course [...] for a list 17:15:18 since the code is just a list in essence that works well 17:15:26 and also makes it homonononomorphic, like lisp and factor 17:15:28 however 17:15:32 even more esoteric? 17:15:36 + length . 1 . 2 . 3 nil sum map lambda . x nil . * . x . 2 nil . 4 . 5 . 6 nil 17:15:45 got rid of [...] in favour of lisp-style cons' 17:17:14 but the final esotericness? 17:17:16 +l.1.2.3;S_\.x;.*.x.2;.4.5.6; 17:17:21 made everything single-character. 17:17:33 I think you can make it worse still :) 17:17:35 Figs: implement the above. yes/no 17:18:14 make it so operations like +, l, etc must be called by table ID in a list of all functions in the program... 17:18:20 hahahah 17:18:28 no i have a better idea 17:18:32 remove named arguments from lambdas 17:18:44 just have function composition (+ lambdas are curried) 17:18:48 remove constants 17:18:53 no :P 17:18:55 well 17:18:56 mayb 17:18:56 e 17:18:58 but first: 17:19:01 make it so you have to generate them by function composition 17:19:23 from 1 and -1 as functions in the table... 17:19:28 +?.1.2.3;S_.*.2;.4.5.6; 17:19:40 (renamed length to ?, removed lambda since with just composition you can just use lists) 17:19:50 actually, if we have currying: 17:20:06 wait, no 17:20:10 can't have currying 17:20:12 fixed number of arguments. 17:21:22 +?.1.2.3;S_\.*.2;.4.5.6; 17:21:24 there 17:23:31 Figs: that's a pretty esoteric way of saying 17:23:34 33 don't you agree? 17:23:49 so say you had like @3 is add, @5 is multiply, @6 is one @9 is -1... then making the number 20 is: @5 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 @6)))) (@3 @6 (@3 @6 (@3 @6 @6))) assuming I didn't fuck up 17:24:38 you could make it worse by using weird numbers instead of 1 and -1... like, 13 and -47 17:25:17 I feel evil 17:25:50 ok, now remove the parens 17:25:55 and make @x one character somehow 17:25:58 and remove the spaces 17:26:17 ok, let's say this 17:26:22 hm 17:26:25 how do we do: 17:26:50 ohh 17:26:52 :D 17:26:53 "if first bit is 0, read the rest as a number then move onto the next byte and continue reading as binary" 17:26:54 and 17:27:04 "if first bit is 1, read rest as number and we're done with this number" 17:27:13 and keep it in the range of displayable ascii chars 17:27:20 and have the numbers be lookups 17:27:24 nice 17:27:25 its still TC since they can be bignums 17:27:37 :D 17:27:59 you'd get code like 17:28:07 "~{£P"£+_C)+WA:R~£:$G_)£I_)|@~>W~@$F?£~@R>ASD(AW)(E"KJFpL~@Sld[aslkd09AEJ-0k-w039i90opak@:LASD8 17:28:09 or someting 17:28:11 A3huiol32*()#52#*90klVF#@#{-345____#$u980#@&$(*)@!$#*(HJ&*VVH*(#O@U%LL@#%>,../.2.3*%(# 17:28:14 :D 17:28:52 better yet, just restrict it to the top row symbols on the keyboard and every other one is "done with this number" 17:29:00 ie, ~@$^*)+ 17:29:05 would be continuables 17:29:07 and 17:29:09 haha 17:29:14 !#%&(_ 17:29:16 are ending 17:29:17 Huh? 17:29:28 even EgoBot is confused now :D 17:30:03 but... 17:30:09 don't make it so obvious :) 17:30:10 like 17:30:15 ~#$&() are continue 17:30:20 and the rest aren't 17:30:24 (so not every other one) 17:30:30 (but some bizare set) 17:30:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:30:45 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:30:55 and restrict the number of characters per action to 5 17:31:00 but 17:31:13 ok, so now that we have the syntax 17:31:15 make one of the functions a function that replaces a function 17:31:17 let's define the standard table! 17:31:26 (not your top-row syntax, mine :P) 17:31:31 :P 17:32:14 like, make kfC set the next value given to it to the function behavior described by a lambda given after it 17:32:26 nononono 17:32:30 totally wrong 17:32:33 more like 17:32:51 0 takes two arguments, a lambda and a list, and returns a list with all elements applied to the lambda 17:32:55 you deal in numbers 17:33:01 the syntax just specifies numbers 17:33:29 you could make it complicated by rotating the list in sets of 13 17:33:54 no 17:33:56 that's just dumb 17:34:02 :P 17:34:18 ok 17:35:04 you could make it shift by the # of functions called in the program so far... 17:36:28 or xor each byte returned with the #F called mod 31 17:36:54 * Figs stops. 17:37:08 yeah, I'm just getting silly now 17:41:07 hey 17:41:20 hi 17:41:21 I think the term for I was talking about is "structural typing" 17:41:29 you could make it shift by the # of functions called in the program so far... 17:41:31 at least, reading about it, it sounds similar 17:41:32 that's brilliant 17:41:38 yay! :D 17:41:53 hm 17:41:55 shift which way? 17:42:04 alternate in sets of three 17:42:09 also, 17:42:13 not #funcalls 17:42:19 but #funcalls-in-source 17:42:21 because 17:42:23 if you GOTO 17:42:23 < < >, < > <, < > <, repeat? 17:42:24 or LOOP 17:42:29 nondeterministically 17:42:37 then -- it changes 17:42:39 yeah :) 17:42:41 so, not TC 17:42:48 so, number of funcs seen in source code 17:42:48 k? 17:42:53 sure 17:43:16 it's so complicated already, you'd probably have to program a computer to program in it to program anything significant in it 17:43:41 :-) 17:43:42 naw 17:44:23 huh 17:44:27 interesting ... 17:44:36 i am going to write a compiler for it 17:44:41 yay! :D 17:44:42 compiling to C, using continuation-passing-style 17:44:45 ;) 17:44:46 so: no stack 17:44:47 :D 17:44:52 continuation-passing? 17:45:02 let me explain 17:45:03 kk 17:45:10 (Don't wikipedia it, it's technical there) 17:45:19 when you see 17:45:26 (+ (f 1 2) (g 3 4)) 17:45:33 the compiler goes to + 17:45:38 then pushes the current state 17:45:40 then runs f 17:45:43 then pops back to that state 17:45:43 etc 17:45:47 you know this. 17:45:49 in CPS 17:45:52 there is no stack 17:45:55 it gets transformed to: 17:46:30 (f 1 2 (LAMBDA-WITH-RESULT-AS-X (g 3 4 (LWRA-Y (+ X Y)))) 17:46:32 see? 17:46:35 no stack 17:46:45 you can just push the arguments and that function (the continuation) to the stack 17:46:47 and GOTO 17:46:59 then, when it's done, it continues executing from the lambda, called with the result 17:47:13 it's not an interpretation strategy although you could use it that way 17:47:15 I don't see yet, but let me think for a minute 17:47:18 more of a compiling strategy 17:47:52 f and g taking 3 params? 17:47:59 with the third as the function called? 17:48:03 err, wait 17:48:04 I'm wrong 17:48:10 (f 1 2 (LAMBDA-WITH-RESULT-AS-X (g 3 4 (LWRA-Y (+ X Y NIL-LAMBDA)))) 17:48:10 ok 17:48:14 there, with NIL-LAMBDA you can see 17:48:21 I think so 17:48:30 then it becomes basically like tail-recursion? 17:48:32 every F taking arguments N now takes N+1 arguments, and its first N arguments must be simple atoms 17:48:34 "hello world" 17:48:34 2 17:48:37 but not function calls, etc 17:48:45 you execute the innermost function 17:48:50 which then tailcalls the Nth argument 17:48:54 which executes one less 17:48:54 etc 17:48:57 until you get to the toplevel 17:49:08 you never need to push to a callstack 17:49:12 every call is a tail call 17:49:18 that's nifty 17:49:36 indeed! 17:49:42 I have to remember that one :D 17:50:14 here's one way to think about it, Figs. 17:50:24 the new extra parameter 17:50:25 is "return" 17:51:26 I think I get it :) 17:52:06 -!- Slereah- has joined. 17:52:18 what are the limits of it? 17:52:50 none 17:52:58 any expression can be converted to it 17:53:16 hmm 17:53:32 cool 17:53:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style has a factorial and other examples 17:53:49 the return parameter in them is called 'k' 17:53:52 it's convention 17:55:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:55:21 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 18:00:57 what exactly is a "normal form"? O.o 18:01:06 * Figs is reading about ANF now 18:02:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:02:33 BNF, you mean? 18:02:40 no 18:02:45 Administrative Normal Form 18:02:46 * pikhq go boom 18:03:43 is it just the "standard way" to represent a particular type of information? or does it mean more than just the regular meaning of "normal"? 18:07:03 hrm. well there's also CNF (Chomsky Normal Form) which is a context free grammar without epsilon except optionally for the start rule, afaict. 18:27:18 -!- Jontte has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:28:41 -!- Jontte has joined. 18:35:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:35:14 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:36:50 hi 18:36:52 back 18:37:11 Welcome back. 18:45:55 howdy! 18:51:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:52:03 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:58:41 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:00:02 -!- bsmnt_bot has joined. 19:08:50 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:10:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:20:43 oh fuck. 19:21:04 int foo,*bar; 19:21:06 ... 19:21:27 foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/ 19:21:27 you idiot 19:21:28 :P 19:21:35 and heh 19:21:41 where did i see that again 19:21:43 reddit? 19:21:48 eh 19:21:59 that just killed my happy place. :( 19:22:49 anyway 19:22:52 trivially, it's a comment 19:23:00 because /* out of a string ALWAYS means comment 19:23:16 yeah, but it still makes me sad :P 19:24:16 no syntax highlighter (or improperly working one) and lack of obvious */ might make you think it's supposed to be the other... :P 19:24:33 reminds me of the \ in a comment... 19:25:42 someone should make a c program with loads of stuff like that 19:25:47 looking pretty trivial as if it does something 19:25:51 but it really does something entirely different; 19:25:58 :) 19:28:07 O_o 19:28:13 I just had a really fucked up idea 19:28:52 what 19:28:54 we should figure out how to write a compile-time "lambda" in C++ templates... 19:29:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:29:24 I mean, it's technically turing complete... 19:29:26 :D 19:29:30 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 19:29:51 people have done it 19:29:57 link? 19:30:01 people have written factorials in it, people have solved the Queens problem in it 19:30:06 it's not interesting any more 19:30:10 Yeah, that's not what I meant though 19:30:28 http://www.boost.org/libs/lambda/ does it 19:30:33 and its widely used 19:31:09 that's totally not what I meant :) 19:34:54 yes 19:34:55 it is 19:34:56 :) 19:35:01 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_UNIX_has_GUI this is some kind of abstract poetry 19:35:22 object Foo { property A,B,C... }; type Foo-Like {has A,B,C...} 19:35:43 reinventing haskell type classes? 19:36:03 or perhaps Ocaml object types 19:39:16 or would that be ocaml polymorphic records 19:40:27 anyway that's probably "structural typing", assuming it's static 19:48:40 um, you already found out 19:50:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:50:33 whee 19:50:44 Yeah, I already found it, but thanks :D 19:50:59 ehird`_: no, hang on a second... 19:51:24 http://rafb.net/p/oVaoH683.html 19:52:52 there you go :D 19:52:59 think like that, only much worse... 19:54:06 i know 19:54:09 Boost's lambda 19:54:17 "normal form" usually means some kind of reduced representation, after you've done a set of simplifications or calculations 19:54:38 oerjan: e.g. 2 + 2's normal form is 4 19:55:06 ehird`_: I thought Boost's lambda was rather different, ie, the function gets called at runtime 19:55:12 but exactly what normal form means depends on what simplifications you are talking about 19:55:24 whereas everything I'm talking about never gets past compiling 19:55:43 thanks oerjan 19:55:50 :) 19:56:52 i could add Cantor normal form which is a normal form for transfinite ordinals, disjunctive and conjuctive normal forms which are normal forms for boolean expressions, etc. 19:58:06 Figs: basically you want what you linked but with arbitary arguments 19:58:07 right? 19:58:18 & results 19:58:32 sort of 20:05:34 damn i wish i could breathe fire 20:12:15 foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/ 20:12:34 thus haskell's decision to avoid unary operators 20:13:10 other than unary minus, no two operators can follow each other 20:13:32 although sadly {- starts a comment 20:13:45 (-) = deref 20:13:49 wait no 20:13:50 that's 20:13:53 - x = deref 20:13:54 mwahahahaa 20:14:57 otoh { - is probably not legal haskell unless you write a very weird Num instance 20:15:28 or wait... 20:16:30 darn, case -2 of { -2 -> "alas"; _ -> "nope" } is possible 20:17:40 oerjan's dreams of sensible haskell syntax are shattered! 20:18:18 if they had chosen {* or something it would not have been a problem, since * is only infix :( 20:18:37 lol 20:18:39 oh, there are much worse things in haskell syntax 20:18:40 :( 20:21:01 the report is not sensible on precedence resolution for example - mixing it in with general parsing. although every compiler ignores the corner cases and resolves separately anyway 20:22:02 afk 20:32:09 ergh 20:32:15 all this metaprogramming is breaking my mind :D 20:54:06 i never metapr*OUCH, STOP IT!* 21:01:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("Out to meta food"). 21:03:23 i never metaclass that didn't talk about itself 21:03:32 *GROAN* 21:11:02 T foo; 21:19:43 pikhq: oh my god. 21:19:44 :O 21:21:43 foo = 5; foo = false; 21:21:49 * pikhq laughs maniacally 21:22:56 oh my fucking god 21:22:56 die 21:39:06 rofl? 21:39:52 (_._) 21:40:27 I'm actually starting to like Java 21:40:34 it's a bit more sane than C++ 21:41:09 on the other hand, it's kinda verbose 21:41:29 I do like the fact that I can set just about everything to null and return null all over the place 21:41:41 makes life that much simpler 21:43:05 Figs: use a real language for a bit 21:43:05 :) 21:43:13 hehe :P 21:43:30 * Figs starts trying to get work coding in Brainfuck... 21:43:42 j/k 21:43:51 I'm learning Java for my CS class 21:44:01 earmuffs. use them 21:44:07 In C++, you can return null. 21:44:10 on any account do not let yourself be lost! 21:44:20 Make every function a void *. 21:44:22 ;p 21:44:32 that's the obnoxious way though :) 21:47:11 return (MyRetVal)null; 21:48:14 return nix_ObjectFromState(state, NIX_NIL); 21:51:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:52:42 typeof( T) 21:52:59 head, it's exploded 21:53:05 :) 21:54:11 ... 21:54:13 what does that return 21:54:42 T 21:56:01 T foo foobar.top)> = 5; 21:56:05 What type is foo? 21:56:23 * pikhq is an evil bastard 21:56:25 umm 21:56:27 your mother 21:56:31 I don't think that's valid C++ 21:56:38 Figs: it is, i know that much 21:56:49 typeof isn't a C++ keyword. 21:56:57 It's a GNU C++ keyword, however. 21:57:11 what are you assigning 5 to? 21:57:31 foo, obviously. 21:58:01 I don't think that's a valid way to write that. 21:58:08 lemme play with it 21:58:27 Fine, fine. 21:58:31 stack foobar; 21:58:35 foobar.push(5); 21:58:44 (usually, vector foo, no? not vector foo and you don't put the before declaring a variable like that in normal use. 21:58:51 pikhq: isn't top a function returning a int() 21:58:58 uh int& 21:59:17 T foo = 5; 21:59:20 jix: Might be. 21:59:21 * ehird`_ is suprised nobody asked wtf "return nix_ObjectFromState(state, NIX_NIL);" was 21:59:51 Figs: The template on vector is on the class, not on the *variable*. ;) 22:00:04 that's my point. 22:00:23 T foo ... 22:00:39 T foo shouldn't happen like that 22:00:54 unless you're doing something else that I'm not thinking of 22:01:21 you might get away with it by specializing a function or something, but then you wouldn't be assigning 5 22:01:27 and you'd need () 22:01:33 * Figs brain-splodes 22:01:45 so 22:01:52 in other news, Malibu is on fire again... 22:06:59 * pikhq declares C++ pure insanity 22:07:12 Seriously: int &foo? WTF? 22:17:53 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:41:35 what's int &foo? 22:42:04 int& foo 22:42:06 A reference to foo. 22:42:17 whee. 22:42:29 huh? 22:42:30 Not a pointer, mind. 22:42:44 void add(int &x){x++;} 22:42:51 int foo = 5; 22:42:55 add(foo) 22:43:01 it's basically the same thing as a pointer, just you can't change what it points to, and it can't be null... 22:43:01 foo is now 6. 22:43:11 (and the syntax is sometimes more prettyful) 22:43:27 yay prettyful! 22:43:33 butterflies and prettyful flowers. 22:43:36 Achoo! 22:43:44 * Figs = braintoast. 22:43:49 good night. 22:43:52 * Figs disappears 22:43:55 -!- Figs has quit ("Java user signed off"). 22:43:58 * pikhq cuts a chunk out of a penny 22:44:26 c++ is shtupppid 22:57:31 * pikhq fashions the penny into a legal-tender blade 22:58:05 not legal tender if it's cut up 22:58:33 If greater than 51% of it is still in one piece, it remains legal tender. 23:41:47 -!- immibis has joined. 23:45:01 -!- ehird`_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:45:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 2007-11-25: 00:12:54 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:12:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:18:22 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 00:30:07 -!- ehird`- has joined. 00:30:57 hello\ 00:30:59 finally i reign on the os x platform once more 00:31:21 did you get a crown? 00:31:54 yes 00:32:01 hey Sgeo, sine server address/port? 00:32:10 sine qua non 00:32:26 sine qua irc network thing 00:34:48 -!- ehird`- has changed nick to ehird`. 00:35:59 blah 00:36:00 ihope? 00:36:28 ehird`, now 100% more positive 00:36:44 that's nice 00:36:46 i think 00:50:03 -!- KajirBot has joined. 00:50:12 .help 00:50:12 feed, help, kill, ps, q, tell, time 00:50:20 .tell 00:50:25 .help tell 00:50:25 tell pid msg 00:50:25 Sends a message to a process. 00:50:37 -!- KajirBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:53:49 Sgeo: Ping! 00:55:52 oerjan, you know, Nomic is quite an interesting game. . . 00:56:30 I currently am capable of representing two different Agoran players. . . 00:57:11 beh 00:57:16 * ehird` racks brains for url 00:57:28 One of which is human. 00:57:31 i noticed some messages today to the backup list, which i haven't turned off messages from 00:57:37 Ah, yes. 00:57:41 My subnomic.\ 00:58:40 I was planning on using Tue for it, but the Registrar asked me to find a different forum. 00:59:19 If I can get the right people in it, the subnomic will itself be an Agoran player. 01:02:35 um, the backup lists are still official forums that every Player has to subscribe to, aren't they? I expect that would be annoying. 01:03:32 to have subnomic traffic there, i mean 01:06:33 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. If you think nobody cares, try miss). 01:12:16 -!- calamari has joined. 01:16:33 Thus why the Registrar requested that it be on a different forum. 01:46:58 Nomination for awesomest-regexp ever #1: 01:47:03 /^"((\\.|[^"])*?)"$/ 01:47:28 It's dirt-simple but so damn useful 01:53:12 um, shouldn't that be [^\\"] ? 01:54:02 or maybe it doesn't matter 01:56:25 no, it shouldn't 01:56:33 since the \\ matches first 01:57:06 but couldn't there be backtracking if the \\. causes the rest to fail? 01:57:17 say, "\" 01:59:01 * pikhq puts all the extant archives of Agora into his mail client. 02:07:33 I wonder if there's a language whose turing-completeness depends on whether it's implemented with static or dynamic scoping 02:35:01 -!- ihope has joined. 02:38:35 INTERESTING STATEMENT THAT WILL SPARK MUCH DEBATE 02:39:52 REFERENCE TO THREE-VOLUME BOOK SERIOUS BY FAMOUS BUT INCOMPREHENSIBLE PHILOSOPHER THAT EXHAUSTED THE ISSUE 02:40:06 *SERIES 02:40:07 Three-word reply that is absolutely correct and therefore SHOULD end all debate. 02:40:43 Namely, "take the derivative". 02:40:46 TROLL REPLY 02:40:56 HOOK BITE 02:40:59 INVOLVING YOUR MOM. 02:41:04 oerjan: LAUGH 02:41:13 Request for a formal definition. 02:41:21 URL 02:41:50 we seem to enjoy having metadiscussions. 02:42:00 anyway, this apple keyboard was designed by Apple programmers 02:42:08 a three-volume book series by a famous but incomprehensible philosopher exhausted that issue 02:42:13 I know this because |\ is a huge key, almost as big as backspace 02:42:16 the metadiscussion issue 02:42:19 right under backspace and above return 02:42:20 i never m*hit by anvil* 02:42:38 i never metanvil that didn't hit itself 02:47:57 * oerjan fails to find a better link than http://www.verboso.com/misspell/Face_of_an_anvil.html 02:54:37 -!- ehird` has quit. 02:57:58 Create a proposal which makes the debate end! 03:00:28 -!- anvil_ has joined. 03:18:33 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:23:12 -!- anvil_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:38:41 -!- immibis has joined. 03:44:19 -!- immibis has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 03:44:30 -!- immibis has set topic: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Topic is: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 03:45:21 he did? 03:45:44 Yes, he did. 03:45:47 cool 03:45:49 Tell him yourself, Alex. 03:45:49 what'd he do? 03:45:55 Oh, he's not here. 03:46:16 Anyways: he proved a certain Turing machine Turing complete. I don't remember all the details. 03:46:27 Except that it's the most minimal language that's Turing complete. 03:46:44 that sounds awesome 03:46:52 is it in esowiki? 03:47:29 it was in the original topic before i changed it. 03:47:39 what's the wolfram research prize anyway? 03:47:49 [16:46] Tell him yourself, Alex. <-- please explain how you know my name 03:48:00 http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html 03:48:09 immibis, I don't. 03:48:16 um, ais523's name 03:48:18 I do, however, know that ais523 is Alex Smith. 03:48:22 you do know. 03:48:27 s/know/now/ 03:48:32 *Now* I do, yes. :) 03:48:44 I also know oerjan's name. 03:48:54 wait a minute, we cannot have two people with the _same_ name here in this channel. 03:49:01 Alex is quite common. 03:49:11 It'd be a bit more unusual to have two Oerjans here. 03:49:17 (or even two Oerjan Johansens.) 03:49:28 probably 03:50:26 although others do apparently exist 03:51:12 True. 03:52:25 since Johansen is a very common surname in Norway, that is to be expected. 03:53:17 And Oerjan seems a somewhat common first name in Norway. 04:00:03 3511 rjan, 53353 Johansen, 42 both 04:00:39 where did you find a list of all people in norway? 04:00:55 http://www.ssb.no/navn/ 04:01:26 jeebus that's creepy 04:02:02 these are just statistics 04:09:44 Johansen is no. 2 on the list 04:12:09 rjan is no. 151 04:14:19 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Oops. My brain just hit a bad secto). 04:37:40 I'll show *you* a bad sector. 04:46:28 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:50:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:34:50 oerjan: geez, how are we going to keep you straight when there are 41 others? 05:35:26 He's the one with a Ph.D. 05:42:23 -!- hurtful has joined. 05:42:30 * pikhq just lost the game 05:42:31 please tell a story. 05:43:40 pikhq: it does seem you are right, at least as far as i can find on the internet. however, there is one Pl-rjan Johansen who is finishing one in psychology 05:44:01 Not quite the same, though. 05:44:28 This would mean that you have been published in one of the AMS's journals. . . 05:44:35 Which, quite frankly, kicks ass. 05:44:38 indeed 05:45:04 hurtful: Once upon a time, Gregor made a programming language named IRP. Everyone has hated him since. The end. 05:45:15 ah, the short version. 05:45:52 Once upon a time there was a beautiful country named Esoteria 05:46:58 what happened in esoteria? 05:46:59 The weather was always nice, and everyone was happy. Except for one person, Gregor R(ex). 05:47:40 hurtful: 昔々、グレゴーさんはIRPのプログラムの語をつくった。みんあはかれが大嫌いだった。 05:48:04 He was a pessimist by nature, and he said: "How could my kingdom possibly last like this? All kingdoms end, in revolution or otherwise." 05:49:04 But the king was a clever magician, so he set about to invent a way to preserve his kingdom. 05:50:17 And so he delved into his magical books, until he came upon a tome about Summonings. 05:50:53 There he read about a powerful creature that could grant wishes: The Irp. 05:52:39 And so he set about to perform the ritual. This of course required many esoteric ingredients, the obtaining of which would not always be within the usual moral standards of the kingdom. 05:53:33 But nevertheless, he eventually obtained them, and performed the ritual. And lo and behold, a small green creature appeared. 05:56:06 what hapened then? 05:57:03 And he asked the irp for a wish, of course. That his kingdom should always stay as it was right now. 05:58:01 And since then so has been the case, the weather is still always nice and ... except the people are not quite happy. 05:58:26 Because now they cannot get rid of that annoying Irp creature! 05:58:59 * hurtful did a little experiment on the people in this channel just now 05:59:50 And the king is so ashamed that he would like to flee the country but he, like everything else in it, has to stay there like he is, forever. 06:01:46 And so they lived frustratingly ever after. 06:01:59 *claps* 06:07:01 * hurtful waits for someone to ask what the experiment is 06:07:46 * oerjan assumed it was the "please tell a story" thing 06:08:23 nope 06:08:37 ah, what then? 06:08:55 "will people in this channel notice that i am...." 06:08:57 -!- hurtful has changed nick to immibis. 06:09:13 yikes 06:09:23 the annoyingness gave it away 06:10:32 that's embarrasing, as the join message tells it plain as day 06:11:10 oerjan, what's your phd in? 06:11:25 not speling, that's for sure 06:12:34 theere r, many!!!!! speling gammatical eras and mistaks in santance dis. 06:12:59 mathematics, Cantor dynamical systems 06:14:49 figures it would be something obscure 06:16:48 Bratteli–Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows 06:17:05 yep 06:17:48 -!- immibis has quit ("Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."). 06:17:56 -!- immibis has joined. 06:19:14 that's funny 06:19:27 what? 06:19:47 that title 06:20:49 why? 06:21:11 it's so esoteric-sounding 06:21:56 what title 06:29:53 what title? 06:31:28 Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows 06:55:24 what's a Bratteli-Vershik models for a Cantor minimal system, and what's a Toeplitz flow, and how does it apply to it? 07:02:06 er... 07:03:14 a Bratteli-Vershik model is a kind of infinite graph 07:04:32 the infinite paths in it can be considered a Cantor set, and there is an ordering on the edges that allow you to define a mapping from one infinite path to another. 07:06:06 with certain restrictions this gives you a continuous invertible function from the Cantor set to itself, such that the iterated orbit of every infinite path is a dense subset of the Cantor set 07:06:32 * immibis has made a rubicon program that counts the number of times the user presses 'P' 07:07:34 it turns out that every such function from any Cantor set to itself can be modelled on an infinite graph this way 07:07:56 (these are the Cantor minimal systems) 07:08:50 Toeplitz flows are a class of such systems, which we investigated models for 07:09:34 absent further evidence, i shall assume your heads have all exploded already :D 07:10:13 you assumed right 07:10:59 how can you be typing without a head and therefore a brain? 07:19:45 bsmntbombdood? 07:20:02 must have been his last dying cramps 07:55:15 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:25 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Don't push the red button!"). 08:12:00 -!- calamari has joined. 08:13:04 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:29:46 -!- calamari has joined. 09:06:05 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:09:16 -!- jix has joined. 09:17:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 09:22:01 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:29:35 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:23:07 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 11:05:13 -!- sebbu has quit ("ping timeout"). 11:30:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:58:03 -!- ImmortalFire has joined. 12:59:24 -!- ImmortalFire has left (?). 13:03:18 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:17:35 i think a language whose behavior changed according to the number of function calls done would be brilliant, you'd just have to make the effect of the number on the actions deterministic 13:18:13 and do something really clever to allow the programmer to circumvent the semantics change so that the effects cancel out or smth 13:22:48 foo = 3/*bar;/*comment or division by deref?*/ <<< C has greedy tokenization 13:57:35 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:58:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 14:25:50 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:25:58 -!- jix has joined. 14:41:25 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:07:04 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:28:45 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:48:20 -!- ehird` has quit. 15:51:38 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:53:38 -!- ehird` has quit (Client Quit). 15:54:02 -!- ehird` has joined. 15:57:41 -!- anvil_ has joined. 17:04:55 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:10:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:11:17 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:17:09 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:17:11 Hi 17:19:03 -!- anvil_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:51:25 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:03:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:20:31 -!- calamari has joined. 19:12:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:13:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:14:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:16:29 -!- Sabskm has joined. 19:20:28 -!- asiekierka has quit. 19:20:33 ping 19:20:49 Pong. 19:22:06 Gnop. 19:22:35 Zoop. 19:22:44 Blorb 19:23:06 Dip-Dop-Dup SPLASH 19:23:22 Ping! 19:23:43 And nothing of value was lost. 19:25:55 'This has been a performance of Michael Palin's piece "The machine that goes 'Ping'"' 19:26:24 Now, let's do the most expensive machine in the whole hospital! 19:27:20 'This is a performance of Goedel's peice "Self-referentiality"' 19:28:21 I have too much hair to play the part of Gdel. 19:30:12 just make a ponytail and hide it in your sweater. 19:31:08 I already have a ponytail. 19:31:22 Also, do ghosts ever leave this server? 19:31:26 I'm actually Slereah. 19:31:29 then you are nearly all set, then 19:31:36 It's been now 15 minutes. 19:31:40 Sabskm: /msg nickserv ghost nick pass 19:31:43 you have to manually do it 19:32:03 -!- Slereah has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:32:07 -!- Sabskm has changed nick to Slereah. 19:32:10 Thar. 19:32:23 and Featers. 20:03:22 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 20:04:01 -!- Sabskm has joined. 20:04:13 -!- AnMaster has joined. 20:05:56 -!- ihope_ has joined. 20:06:28 I want an esolang that looks like incoherent speech. 20:06:42 -!- Slereah has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:06:45 -!- Sabskm has changed nick to Slereah. 20:06:55 Aren't most esolang like this? 20:06:57 "Why if you you and I'm gonna but well just you wait and oughta for nothing job!" 20:07:25 +++[>+[-]<] looks like incoherent speech? 20:08:01 Well, if you replaced the symbols by syllables, probably! 20:08:28 Looks quite coherent. 20:08:33 To me. ;) 20:08:33 -!- ihope_ has quit ("Lost terminal"). 20:08:55 Although I must wonder why the infinite loop that is essentially equivalent to >[-]<+[]. . . 20:11:42 -!- ihope has joined. 20:12:48 It's not equivalent to >[-]<[-]? 20:13:12 no 20:14:01 Oh, you're right. 20:14:10 no, pikhq is right 20:15:09 Oh, you're right. 20:15:36 I'm not good with remembering things I wasn't around to hear. 20:21:33 o 20:29:18 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:29:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:00:25 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 21:01:10 -!- AnMaster has joined. 22:33:11 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 2007-11-26: 00:25:26 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:34:03 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:52:05 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 01:05:09 -!- anvil_ has joined. 01:05:12 This nick doesn't make any sense. 01:05:17 -!- anvil_ has changed nick to ihope_. 01:08:05 No the make sense of nick is. 01:08:30 Wrong is why order? 01:09:05 Belong to the order is of the essence. 01:09:30 Belong to the order is I do not want. 01:09:40 Not please of making me. 01:10:27 We aim to please. You aim too, please. 01:11:00 Return back topic: "Order of urinal" 01:11:22 GregorR's? 01:11:42 presumably 01:11:54 * ihope_ nodding 01:12:05 u r in a lot of trouble... 01:13:34 Surprised is that on me. 01:14:37 If whenever in of toward beside. 01:15:00 Not is the sense of you. 01:16:38 Error: Grammatical spaghetti detected. Please rewind. 01:17:59 * ihope_ spins clockwise at about 20Hz 01:19:27 * oerjan watches spaghetti fly to all sides. The tomato sauce causes irrepairable damage. 01:19:39 WRONG DIRECTION! 01:21:31 @go "monad tutorials considered harmful" 01:21:47 * oerjan throws an axe after Mr. Wong 01:23:58 Now of sense time? 01:24:15 Or with not so on? 01:24:31 Possibly without because whether. 01:25:04 Whatever. 01:35:21 someone fucked up the toilet at work today 01:35:48 lucky i didn't have to clean it 01:40:39 -!- bsmnt_bot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:06:00 oerjan: I just won in Agora. 02:06:23 yay 02:06:32 and this has been truely confirmed? 02:06:35 No. 02:06:42 I just sent off the message to pull it off. 02:06:56 Sadly, the method I used for it says "without two objections". 02:07:48 If I were more patient, I would've waited a few days before sending off the contest text. 02:08:20 (the text for creating a contest has changed from "is fair to every player" to "without two objections". . . I note that a contest can be private until a contestant joins.) 02:09:07 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:10:13 what's that? 02:11:41 http://agoranomic.org/ 02:24:51 -!- AnMaster has joined. 02:28:22 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:45:17 life is a nomic! 02:45:34 You mean I can make changes to my DNA? 02:45:48 yes, actually 02:46:13 sure. but the procedure is rather complicated, and the documentation has been lost. 02:46:17 And the rules to change my DNA are in my DNA? 02:46:35 you can change your kid's dna 02:46:41 Not the same thing. 02:47:10 and you can change how your own dna is expressed 02:53:27 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:54:02 methylation 02:54:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:58:20 -!- cherez has joined. 03:20:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 03:58:41 -!- immibis has joined. 03:59:24 -!- immibis has quit (Client Quit). 04:50:49 -!- immibis has joined. 04:51:57 * immibis has made (in Rubicon): a bubble-sort, solutions to several puzzles, a program to square a number, two fibonacci sequence generators. 04:52:41 2 [2^plax]dsax 04:53:16 damn i love dc 04:53:27 dc? 04:53:55 um 04:53:58 [17:55] damn i love dc 04:53:58 [17:53] dc? 04:54:03 immibis: good work :) 04:54:07 my computer can see the future. 04:54:28 one type of processor. 04:54:43 two laws-of-physics-change counters. 04:55:01 -!- immibis has changed nick to immibis[A]. 04:55:01 * immibis[A] is now away - Reason : bbl 04:55:10 for even bigger numbers, do 2[2r^plax]dsax 05:02:50 oh, hey- I made an Applet that functions as an interactive interpreter to Sprocket, a language I made a couple weeks ago: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CogEngine/Sprocket1/ 05:03:24 It's pretty limited, but I'm well on the way to implementing a more powerful newer revision of the language 05:07:57 OMGXKCD 05:21:08 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 05:41:44 what's dc? 05:41:44 -!- immibis[A] has changed nick to immibis. 05:41:44 * immibis is no longer away : Gone for X minutes and Y seconds 05:42:33 * immibis is currently working on a divider in rubicon. 05:57:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffeeeee"). 06:02:16 haha xkcd 06:03:12 what is xkcd? 06:03:22 A new one's up. 06:03:28 I assume this one : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/success.png 06:03:34 immibis: stfu & gtfo 06:03:52 Oh, "what is". 06:03:53 oh that xkcd http://xkcd.com/ 06:04:39 i've experienced that before >_< 06:04:53 oh and haha i was going to upgrade openbsd soon 06:04:58 Stranded in the water full of sharks? 06:05:16 Not me, but I had similar experience. 06:05:41 Like that friend who told me that with Linux, I might be able to retrieve some data from a broken HD! 06:05:54 division (only works when the result is a whole number): http://kevan.org/rubicon/game.php?level=hikyzon 06:06:46 Where are the lemmings? 06:07:04 ? 06:07:25 A reference to the game of the same name. 06:07:37 Reminds me of it. 06:20:15 "On May 14, 2007, Wolfram announced a $25,000 prize[1] to be won by the first person to prove or disprove the universality of a (2,3) Turing machine. On 24 October 2007, it was announced that Alex Smith, a student in electronics and computing at the University of Birmingham (UK), had won this prize.[2]." 06:25:00 ... 07:14:37 all programs i have made in rubicon: http://www.stardrifter.org/rubisearch/?title=&designer=immibis&type=other&difficulty=&follows= 07:27:34 why is mode +c on? 07:33:00 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 07:38:48 why is mode +c on? 07:45:09 why is mode +c on? 07:45:30 this text is not invisible but it would be if mode +c was off. 07:48:44 !ps d 07:48:48 1 ais523: daemon ul bf 07:48:49 2 immibis: ps 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:56 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Never put off till tomorrow, what y). 08:23:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:23:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 11:43:39 -!- ihope_ has joined. 12:39:02 -!- ihope_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:03 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:04 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:04 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:04 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:04 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:04 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:05 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:06 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:06 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:06 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:07 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:08 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:08 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:09 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:09 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:39:44 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:39:44 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 12:39:44 -!- cherez has joined. 12:39:44 -!- AnMaster has joined. 12:39:44 -!- ihope has joined. 12:39:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 12:39:44 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:39:44 -!- dbc has joined. 12:39:44 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:39:44 -!- Overand has joined. 12:39:44 -!- helios24_ has joined. 12:39:44 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:39:44 -!- johnk_ has joined. 12:39:44 -!- fizzie has joined. 12:39:44 -!- GregorR has joined. 12:39:44 -!- zuzu has joined. 12:39:44 -!- mtve has joined. 12:39:56 -!- ihope_ has joined. 12:39:58 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:39:58 -!- Possum has joined. 12:39:58 -!- cmeme has joined. 12:39:58 -!- sekhmet has joined. 13:03:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:05:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:10:23 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:23 -!- zuzu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:23 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:23 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:23 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:23 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:10:24 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:11:22 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:11:22 -!- dbc has joined. 13:11:22 -!- Overand has joined. 13:11:22 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:11:22 -!- GregorR has joined. 13:11:22 -!- zuzu has joined. 13:19:15 Go team netsplit! 13:42:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:42:21 -!- ais523 has set topic: Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | IRP in #irp | Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!. 14:12:47 is that a joke, or are you serious? 14:13:00 RodgerTheGreat: what are you referring to? 14:13:13 "Congratulations ais523 for winning the Wolfram research prize!" 14:13:16 if it's the topic, it's serious 14:13:22 and it's been there for a while: check the logs 14:13:53 cool, then 14:14:04 congratulations 14:14:20 thanks 14:14:20 what do you plan to do with your moneys? 14:14:28 put it in the bank, mostly 14:14:43 I've spent some of it, though only a small proportion 14:14:47 sounds like a good plan 14:16:59 man, it's just really odd that someone I kinda know was involved in that- the internet has created a small, small world 14:17:19 the esolangs knowledge was pretty relevant 14:17:40 and besides, it was from #esoteric on freenode that I found out about the prize in the first place, so it all comes round in a circle eventually 14:20:06 we should print a bunch of "team #esoteric" shirts. 14:21:40 sounds great 14:22:17 we just need some sort of witty slogan 14:23:03 "when malbolge looks you in the eye, grin madly back I say" 14:24:16 just a list of language names would be enough to confuse many people 14:24:26 especially if some of the more oddly-named languages were included 14:24:52 and you could have little boxes next to them that people could check for the languages they conquer 14:25:51 I still want to write that nontrivial infinite loop in /// 14:26:02 I'm pretty sure it's possible, but every attempt I've made to do it has failed 14:27:39 I very nearly completed some logic gates that can be linked together arbitrarily, but that can only build a FSM, at best 14:27:58 (and resetting the gates after they've triggered is a huge mess) 14:28:55 I have a very strong gut instinct that /// could be TC, but we have a long way to go 14:29:41 I was trying to do it using the Muriel method 14:29:56 after all, it's not ridiculously hard to write the substitutions needed to quote something 14:30:08 it's just hard to cause them to each happen exactly once 14:30:19 i.e. once on each character that needs quoting 14:30:37 by quoting, do you mean escaping? 14:31:12 yed 14:31:16 s/d/s/ 14:31:24 or maybe just /d/s/ as we're talking about /// 14:31:58 heh 14:33:27 good lord this is horrifying: http://web.archive.org/web/20020705102824/demo.raww.net/muriel/bub.txt 14:33:37 a bub interpreter in muriel 14:35:01 isn't that how Muriel was proven TC in the first place 14:35:08 s/$/?/ 14:35:08 yeah 14:36:40 wow, that's pretty unreadable 14:36:41 bub is an odd variant of BF, so if you can interpreter bub you are TC by the... transitive property of turing-completeness? :) 14:36:54 *interpret bub 14:37:07 'can interpret' is transitive 14:37:29 what you do is interpret a Brainfuck interpreter written in Bub 14:37:44 I uderstand how it works 14:40:38 hm. /// highly resembles an Deterministic Finite State Automaton. 14:40:47 *a 14:40:56 damn, my brain must not be awake yet 14:42:24 -!- zuzu has quit ("Lost terminal"). 14:43:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:43:21 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:43:37 I figure you could do something resembling "and" operations by having a string like x1x2x3x4, then substituting x1 for another symbol, like T1, and so on, and then ultimately doing a replacement looking for T1T2T3T4 14:44:27 I haven't really got as far as any actual calculation, just trying to create a loop 14:44:56 it helps a lot if you just use / and \ for characters in terms of trying to automatically do escaping 14:45:28 loops are very important, I've just been focusing on constructing math and logic. It's pretty tricky to do in a modular fashion 14:45:32 you can use strings like ////\//// (which can't appear legally anywhere in parts of a /// program that actually get executed) as delimiters 14:46:04 hm 14:49:35 well, I'll be back later- can't skip Computer Organization! 15:12:35 watch out, he's going to fuck your husband and kill you 15:13:21 computer organization, lol 15:42:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:14:53 -!- jix has joined. 16:18:23 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:18:30 -!- puzzlet has joined. 16:22:42 -!- ehird` has joined. 16:22:55 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 16:23:20 -!- jix has joined. 17:40:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:42:31 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:17:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:18:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:18:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:23:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:29:44 -!- clayrat has joined. 18:49:53 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 20:02:32 I am going to write a Lisp interpreter in Glass or Underload. 20:02:37 Discuss. And suggest which. 20:05:37 GregorR: why is glass' only implementation an irc bot written in c++ 20:06:28 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:21:43 !glass {L[+(_a)A!a.?]}{M[m(_l)L!<2><2>(_o)+.?]} 20:30:19 EINSTEIN CHOCOLATE 20:37:02 ehird`: That's inaccurate. 20:37:12 GregorR: Perhaps. :-) 20:37:17 Is my code right, btw? 20:37:20 it should do 2 + 2 20:37:32 hah i wrote really cool glass stuff 20:37:43 ehird`: Not perhaps, most certainly. The Glass interpreter is a standalone program, like all of the interpreters EgoBot uses. 20:37:48 stuff like sqrt and i think exp() etc 20:37:57 jix: I do believe it's still in there. 20:38:10 GregorR: Nuh uh. You have loads of "#ifdef IRC" crap in there 20:38:39 ehird`: I slightly adjusted the Glass interpreter for IRC use, yes. But the version in the IRC bot is a branch, not the original. 20:38:49 Is it? Ok then :P 20:39:00 Reading is helpful. 20:39:11 That's a new concept to me 20:39:22 reading is overrated 20:39:26 I agree 20:39:39 hmm overrated would be a cool name for an esolang 20:39:51 yes! 20:39:55 Eh, I think you may be overrating that name choice. 20:40:00 groan 20:40:03 but the only thing i can think of would be another useless language 20:40:07 HAW HAW HAW TEH FUNNEHS 20:40:36 jix: That'd be perfect, because then it would be overrated :P 20:41:11 POLL: In my other lisp (Python, called Foonab, quite esoteric), make a string a list of characters, instead of an internal vector of characters 20:41:12 ok here is the spec "The authors decided to release no specs because they think specs are overrated anyway" 20:41:18 that's quite silly, so sounds good to me? :P 20:41:36 you know 20:41:39 caffiene kinda sucks 20:41:45 bsmntbombdood: it doesn't 20:41:54 i love espresso, but i don't have it very often 20:42:07 it makes you moving your legs and everything like insane and you talk without breathing etc etc.... 20:42:11 so when i do, i'm all nervous and jittery for the rest of the day 20:42:42 uh and then when you are really tired but haven't gone to bed because of all the caffeine you get a really bad headache 20:43:14 i think caffeine is great 20:43:54 As far as I can tell, caffeine does nothing to me. 20:44:35 do you have it often? 20:45:00 bsmntbombdood: me? coffeine? 20:45:04 no, ihope 20:45:06 ah 20:45:06 No, I don't. 20:45:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:45:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 20:47:21 I have the occasional pop; that does nothing noticeable. 20:47:35 ihope: hello 20:47:39 Ello. 20:47:58 the LITHP language, version 1: 20:48:09 t litht 1 2 3 h 20:48:42 t conth 'hello t litht 1 2 3 hh 20:48:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:49:09 A caffeine pill that contains "about as much as a cup of coffee" doesn't seem to do anything either. 20:49:50 they are funny if you don't know that there is so much caffeine in there 20:49:59 but you start to get _very_ annoying 20:51:03 If you're not aware of the amount of caffeine, you end up doing things that annoy others and not noticing as much? 20:51:38 pop doesn't have much caffeine 20:55:17 oklopol: gi 20:55:18 *hi 21:02:59 ihope: exactly 21:03:39 well i can do that without coffeine too.... but coffeine helps 21:15:03 coffeine? 21:15:16 caffeine 21:15:54 duh 21:18:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:18:09 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:18:43 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:20:37 Perhaps I should avoid caffeine for others' sake, then. 21:22:10 i've noticed that too 21:22:23 if i'm aware, i compensate and the effects can't be seen by others 21:23:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:24:20 tea is good 21:24:23 yes it is 21:29:03 * ihope nods 21:30:53 i was talking to this chinese guy about tea 21:31:16 he said to brew black tea he steeps it for 15 minutes, throws out the tea, and steeps for 15 minutes again 21:32:30 this is somewhat crazy 21:32:46 what i do i simply use not boiling water on green tea 21:33:12 and the reuses the tea leaves for 4 more brewings 21:33:16 since too hot makes it bitter and upsets tomach 21:33:29 yeah, reusing is the key 21:34:03 one guy taught me to fry the tea 21:35:01 you take a fistful of rice, put it in water for 20 min, then fry it on the pan until it gets brown and cracke 21:35:31 then you throw some green tea on the pan and fry it just for several seconds until it starts to smell sweety-spicy 21:35:41 this guy said he liked poached eggs cooked in tea 21:35:41 then you just brew the stuff 21:36:11 it takes on pinky flavour and tastes of rice, quite nice 21:36:24 century eggs, eh 21:40:11 whoa 21:41:22 whoops it's the german word for caffeine koffein .... mixed that 21:43:31 oh 22:16:21 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:16:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:42:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:42:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:00:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:03:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:11:46 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:22:31 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 23:22:31 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:33:33 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:33:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 2007-11-27: 00:01:19 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:01:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:46:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:46:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:59:22 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 01:01:26 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 01:10:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:10:23 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 01:11:20 -!- ehird` has quit. 02:49:40 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:49:41 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:55:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:55:19 -!- puzzlet has joined. 02:59:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:36:17 -!- immibis has joined. 03:43:51 -!- calamari has joined. 04:48:56 -!- puzzlet has quit ("Lost terminal"). 05:05:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:16:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:25:15 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:28:28 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:28:33 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 05:28:44 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:28:56 * immibis wonders what's up with puzzlet's client 05:30:01 it's very very shy, you have to pet it carefully 05:40:21 heh 05:55:58 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 06:02:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee or no coffee, that is the question"). 06:11:57 -!- puzzlet has joined. 06:11:58 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:14:52 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:00:58 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:00:59 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:03 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. I used to think I was indecisive, b). 08:50:03 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:50:05 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:59:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 10:09:57 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:08:29 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:08:31 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 11:56:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:06:49 -!- jix has joined. 12:24:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:24:52 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:25:03 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:29:53 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:33:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:38:54 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:42:45 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:42:50 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 12:43:14 -!- jix has joined. 12:48:57 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:50:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:51:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:52:09 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:26:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:32:48 -!- faxathisia has joined. 13:39:54 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 14:07:22 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 14:18:10 -!- nickwebcoukok has joined. 14:18:28 print current time 14:23:43 IRP ACTIVE. 9:23 AM 14:29:13 -!- nickwebcoukok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:44:55 -!- ehird` has joined. 14:45:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:45:12 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:01:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:37:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:38:16 o 15:39:50 rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv 15:40:42 hmm 15:43:18 -!- ololobot has joined. 15:43:24 well that was fast... 15:47:50 >>> rt rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv 15:47:51 ewpg le ijy-pageq jeyq-ij aq cecf pafaag ygeagi 15:47:53 :D 15:47:56 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:48:19 I WASTE 7 MINUTES OF MY LIFE FOR THAT AND IT'S NOT ROT-13!! 15:48:25 furrfu! 15:48:25 -!- faxathisia has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:48:39 ahha! 15:48:43 >>> rt furrfu 15:48:44 sheesh 15:49:04 uru 15:49:10 -!- faxathisia has joined. 15:49:18 hmm... stop that or i'll learn rot-13 : 15:49:20 :) 15:49:45 uru is prolly lol 15:49:46 >>> rt uru 15:49:46 heh 15:49:49 damn 15:49:50 :P 15:50:20 rot-13 just does chars right? 15:50:41 i mean 15:50:44 a-z 15:50:48 ebsy 15:50:56 ... 15:51:08 rofl? 15:51:11 >>> rt ebsy 15:51:11 rofl 15:51:14 hah! 15:51:34 lrnu 15:52:01 jesh 15:52:06 >>> rt lrnu 15:52:06 yeah 15:52:08 ... 15:52:18 what 15:52:22 anyhow 15:52:30 you do that manually, right? 15:52:37 like, mentally 15:52:40 yep 15:53:02 >>> rt abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 15:53:02 nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklm 15:53:14 although looking at the letters already on the page 15:53:21 ah 15:53:24 furrfu is an old classic though 15:54:16 i now realize i already have memorized the rot-13 table 15:54:19 in school 15:54:23 first grade 15:54:48 just not in that order. 15:57:16 *groan* 15:57:38 slow today :D 16:10:12 back 16:10:14 hello oklopol 16:11:23 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 16:11:53 >>> help 16:11:53 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 16:11:54 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, rt, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi 16:12:02 >>> in-fi lolwut? 16:12:08 >>> in-fi WHAT IS THIS 16:12:08 W 16:12:34 >>> choose a b c d e 16:12:35 c 16:12:52 >>> in-fi WHAT IS IN-FI 16:12:52 W 16:12:56 >>> in-fi F 16:12:56 F 16:12:58 >>> in-fi AF 16:12:58 A 16:13:05 >>> in-pr hello 16:13:05 hello 16:13:09 >>> in-fi HELLO! 16:13:12 >>> in-pr HELLO! 16:13:16 :| 16:13:36 >>> factors 557940830126698960967415390 16:13:56 :[ 16:14:11 >>> factors 1 16:14:15 >>> factors 4 16:14:22 >>> sch define 16:14:26 ITS BORKEN 16:14:34 >>> in-fi WHAT IS IN-FI 16:14:41 indeed 16:16:26 [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71] 16:16:31 >>> in-fi (5-2)*5 16:16:46 oklopol, ololobot crash'd 16:16:48 restart it 16:16:53 so it seems. 16:16:57 >>> i o 16:17:02 2, 2 16:17:02 define 16:17:03 W 16:17:03 5 - 2 * 5 16:17:03 o 16:17:11 uh... 16:17:12 what 16:17:17 hhaha 16:17:18 lag 16:17:20 >>> scm define 16:17:22 >>> i o 16:17:23 o 16:17:27 >>> scm define 16:17:29 >>> i o 16:17:30 o 16:17:33 heh wtf 16:17:33 sch 16:17:38 >>> sch define 16:17:38 define 16:17:43 >>> sch (define) 16:17:50 lul 16:17:57 >>> in-fi 1+(2+3)+4+5 16:17:58 1 2 + + 3 + 4 + 5 16:17:58 >>> sch (define x y z) 16:17:58 () 16:18:13 >>> sch x 16:18:14 None 16:18:18 >>> sch y 16:18:18 None 16:18:19 >>> sch z 16:18:20 None 16:18:26 define only takes 2 args 16:18:32 i know 16:18:33 :P 16:18:35 the thing that is defined, and what it's defined to be 16:18:57 also, i have no idea whether this is the new version either, but i'll test 16:19:03 >>> sch (define (a b) b) 16:19:03 None 16:19:09 >>> sch (a 4) 16:19:09 4 16:19:16 seems it is the newer version 16:20:32 >>> help in-fi 16:20:32 Infix - finefix convertor. 16:20:43 that is prolly helpful enough 16:21:08 fiinefix? 16:22:12 yes 16:22:42 my attempt to make infix work without explicit parens 16:24:52 lol, lost 50% of my points for doing counting sort the wrong way around <3 16:24:59 i love the automatic checker 16:25:14 (the result is the same) 16:26:55 finefix is just postfix 16:26:56 no? 16:29:34 no 16:30:02 >>> in-fi 1+2+3 16:30:02 1 + 2 + 3 16:30:28 but it is the postfix way to handle parenthesis expansion 16:30:32 *ses 16:30:34 *uses 16:39:04 hey guys 16:39:40 howdy howdy 16:44:36 hi rodgy 16:44:41 h b c i d 16:45:19 * oklopol has developed a rot-13 paranoia 16:45:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 16:45:42 rot26 bitches 16:46:20 rt rjct yr vwl-cntrd wrld-vw nd prps cnsnnt ltrntv <- isn't this just saying to reject your vowel centered world-view? 16:46:52 bsmntbombdood: I religiously rot26 everything I post on the internet 16:47:03 that would be one interpretation 16:47:14 sh: i reject your vowel centered world-view and replace it with my own: command not found 16:47:17 erm 16:47:23 rjct yr vwl cntrd wrld-vw nd rplc t wth my wn 16:47:50 bloody cheater 16:48:18 well, I'm off to statistics class. :/ 16:48:23 not cheating just efficiency 16:50:11 >>> i ololobot does rot-26 16:50:11 ololobot does rot-26 16:50:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:54:11 avid card players prefer rot-52 17:00:01 Io is such a great language 17:00:06 although not esoteric 17:00:07 :P 17:00:27 which Io? 17:00:57 the older one is pretty esoteric 17:01:09 the new one 17:01:13 the older one is, indeed 17:01:37 the new one is pretty pure semantics and syntax-wise and generally useful too, though 17:01:48 quite nice to embed 17:02:06 nice to use for general stuff too 17:02:27 * oerjan gets the idea of "an implementation of Io in Io" 17:02:42 oerjan: Io1 in Io2 (or vise-versa)? :-) 17:02:53 the problem with Io is the documentation of the Socket class 17:02:55 that is, there is none 17:02:56 vice-versa 17:03:00 still, the names are pretty descriptive 17:03:04 oerjan: that would be... difficult 17:03:25 perhaps 17:03:33 oh yeah, Io is bloody hard to google too 17:03:42 'io language' usually does the trick though 17:03:53 i don't know the finer points of either (and really nothing about Io2 other than being OO) 17:04:02 cal 2008 17:04:03 oops 17:05:56 oerjan: Io2 is actually very nice 17:05:59 oerjan: e.g., 0 keywords 17:06:02 "if" is a method 17:06:15 similar to smalltalk, but prototype-based and simpler to understand 17:06:34 http://www.iolanguage.com/about/samplecode/ has a few examples 17:11:49 x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S135 17:11:49 3b2o$3b2o$b4o$obo! 17:12:05 * faxathisia has not seen this spaceship before 17:23:56 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 17:26:54 oklopol: okloping 17:28:26 ehpong 17:28:53 my name does not slice very well 17:28:59 i noticed. 17:29:10 elling, perhaps 17:29:19 elliot hing 17:30:26 i would like to be able to have a good prefix/suffix for my stuff 17:30:27 like Ego- 17:30:29 or oklo- 17:30:32 BUT I CAN'T 17:30:33 :< 17:30:55 that is a serious problem 17:31:07 GregorR solved it quite nicely 17:31:21 (changing nick is not an option -- i suck at making up nicks, and also too many things are under 'ehird' to change them all) 17:32:34 heh, i chose my nick in about 2 minutes, and i've had it for about 2 years 17:33:02 i do happen to like this nick, but i'm pretty certain i'd've kept it even if i'd chosen something really gay 17:33:15 what, like RavingHomosexual? 17:33:31 yes, that was my choise #2 17:43:27 ehd- ? 17:45:23 zumilo- 17:47:54 :D 17:49:39 aw oerjan left 17:50:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:52:49 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:56:54 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:58:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:07:43 Here are all the predecessors of the glider I can find http://rafb.net/p/n7NVdc43.txt :D 18:25:12 -!- jix has joined. 18:59:57 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:02:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:03:16 -!- puzzlet has joined. 19:30:45 observe, new comics! 19:30:47 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Comic022.png 19:30:49 http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/Comic023.png 19:38:12 awesome, RodgerTheGreat 19:39:40 thanks, ehird`! 19:39:47 which is your favorite? 19:40:03 first, i'd say 19:40:50 yeah, I think that's my favorite of the two as well 21:41:11 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:53:52 http://www.fogcreek.com/FogBugz/60movie/60movie.html "So...that's what FogBugz lets you do." "Yeah. Make ducks." 22:20:12 -!- RedDak has quit ("I'm quitting... Bye all"). 22:47:32 bbiab 22:47:36 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 23:22:21 -!- erat123 has joined. 23:24:28 -!- erat123 has left (?). 2007-11-28: 00:04:28 "For some reason most people seem to be born without the part of the brain that understands pointers." 00:05:00 don't worry. 00:05:25 In a few million years, when evolutive pressure kills those people, a new era of programming will dawn. 00:07:03 i don't understand how people don't understand pointers 00:07:42 Sure, it's hard. . . At first. . . 00:07:55 Just do a bit of programming in C, and you figure it out rather quickly. 00:10:13 of co urse everyone here understands pointers and fiunds it impossible to believe that maybe others don't 00:10:16 this is #esoteric :-) 00:10:31 but it's true -- there really are people who can do everything but pointers, they just don't get them at all and never will 00:16:18 :-o 00:24:25 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:30:22 -!- puzzlet__ has joined. 00:36:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:44:36 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out). 00:46:54 Pointers, eh? 00:47:13 I understand pointers AND monads! Muahaha... 00:47:24 -!- ehird` has quit. 00:47:28 Monads, a 0 dimensional object? 00:47:39 Monads, the category theory thingy. 00:47:52 I don't know any category theory 00:47:57 Since monads are from category theory and I understand monads, I really should study category theory, eh? 00:48:29 Well, I understand the Holocaust, that doesn't mean I should do it! 00:50:01 Also, I'm suddenly grinning: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arimaa/Overview 00:50:19 "Arimaa is a two-player board game invented by Omar Syed, a computer engineer trained in artificial intelligence. Syed was inspired by Garry Kasparov's defeat at the hands of the chess computer Deep Blue to design a new game which would be difficult for computers to play well, but would have rules simple enough for his four-year-old son Aamir to understand" 00:52:20 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:52:30 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:58:25 It seems to me that the shorter something is made, the easier it is for me to understand it. Maybe that's just because long things bore me. 01:00:44 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:00:51 I'd love a description of category theory such as this: "An A is a set of Bs and Cs following certain axioms. A C has a D and an E, which are both Bs. The axioms: if you have two Cs x and y such that x's E is y's D, then there is a C z such that z's D is x's D and z's E is y's E; and for every B x, there is a C whose D and E are both x." 01:05:46 There, a few quick questions and a bit of prior knowledge and now I know category theory. 01:07:21 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:07:27 are there any pathfinding algorithms like A* that take a heuristic that always over-estimates? 01:08:14 bsmntbombdood: I think that A* should work if the heuristic always overestimates by like a constant scale factor 01:08:23 (work meaning find the shortest path) 01:09:04 sure, because you can just divide by the factor... 01:09:20 without having to I mean 01:09:27 but I'm not certain 02:06:01 -!- calamari has joined. 03:29:52 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:35:10 -!- immibis has joined. 04:08:54 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:34:58 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 04:40:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:57:19 ihope: you could certainly define a _category_ like that, problem is that category theory theory consists of a _lot_ of definitions on top of that. however at least at the beginning most of them are similarly simple. 04:57:52 ihope, you are now being pwned by the Mathematician. 04:58:53 now now, when i say "at least at the beginning" that more or less means "as far as i go to". the parts of category theory other fields tend to use rarely go beyond the basics. 04:58:59 *got ot 04:59:01 *got to 04:59:51 the Mathematician should have been a Tarot card, although i like the Magician too... 05:00:12 I can do the Magician. 05:00:17 * pikhq plays Magic: The Gathering. ;) 05:00:20 "Tarot just got a _lot_ more sinister..." 05:00:27 :) 05:00:51 * pikhq plays Shatterstorm. All artifact cards are destroyed. I consider tarot cards artifacts. :p 05:01:30 _ancient_ artifacts, mind you. 05:01:40 Very ancient. 05:01:46 Shatterstorm doesn't care about the age. :) 05:01:53 or at least late middle age or so 05:02:04 *ages 05:10:49 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:56:41 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:17:05 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:33:58 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:38:06 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:08 -!- Slereah has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:12 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:12 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:12 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:13 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:13 -!- AnMaster has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:13 -!- fizzie has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:13 -!- helios24_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- ihope has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- faxathisia has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- cherez has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- johnk_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:14 -!- mtve has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:44:11 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 08:44:11 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:44:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:44:11 -!- faxathisia has joined. 08:44:11 -!- ololobot has joined. 08:44:11 -!- GregorR has joined. 08:44:11 -!- SimonRC has joined. 08:44:11 -!- Overand has joined. 08:44:11 -!- dbc has joined. 08:44:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:44:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 08:44:11 -!- sekhmet has joined. 08:44:11 -!- cmeme has joined. 08:44:11 -!- Possum has joined. 08:44:11 -!- cherez has joined. 08:44:11 -!- AnMaster has joined. 08:44:11 -!- ihope has joined. 08:44:11 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:44:11 -!- helios24_ has joined. 08:44:11 -!- johnk_ has joined. 08:44:11 -!- fizzie has joined. 08:44:11 -!- mtve has joined. 09:00:29 -!- faxathisia has quit. 09:02:43 -!- encoded|lap has joined. 09:02:54 Please say "Hello, World!" 09:04:08 !help 09:04:12 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 09:04:14 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 09:04:18 ah! 09:05:22 >>> in-pr hello 09:05:22 hello 09:05:44 1l lol 09:07:18 >>> axo 09:07:29 -!- encoded|lap has left (?). 09:08:20 !axo oko 09:51:43 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 10:04:50 -!- jix has joined. 10:06:27 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:06:35 -!- jix has joined. 10:10:43 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:36:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:07:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:07:50 -!- mtve has quit ("Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5"). 12:08:24 -!- mtve has joined. 12:54:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:22:45 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:31:29 -!- jix has joined. 13:36:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:51:52 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:39:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Excess Flood). 15:29:45 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:36:05 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:36:09 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:36:39 -!- faxathisia has joined. 16:05:33 -!- ihope_ has joined. 16:09:28 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 16:14:14 -!- oerjan has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:14:43 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 16:53:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 16:56:09 -!- ihope__ has joined. 16:56:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:58:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:59:10 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 17:03:25 -!- RedDak has joined. 17:09:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:11:36 -!- ihope___ has joined. 17:11:57 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:12:06 -!- ihope___ has changed nick to ihope_. 17:19:43 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:24:38 -!- ihope__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:57:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:28:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:53:40 o 18:58:17 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 18:59:50 :D 19:08:45 faxathisia: do you have a history of using another nick, or are you relatively new here? 19:09:01 * faxathisia is new 19:09:01 or option 3: something else 19:09:06 somethinhg else! 19:12:02 i may already have asked, but i don't remember; what's the biggest amount of regulars there have been here 19:12:19 in case someone here remembers 19:12:34 i know at least a few regulars have effectively stopped idling here 19:13:41 I don't think anybody's done a "regular count" :p 19:14:47 no official one prolly, but most people occasionally take a glance at the userlist 19:15:19 Userlist != list of regulars 19:15:27 so... has there like been a time when 100 ppl idled here regularly 19:15:35 Oh, IDLERS 19:15:40 Regulars to me = people who talk :P 19:15:55 idling was a more general word here 19:16:24 like a relaxed form of being somewhere 19:16:33 *lol* 19:18:31 i'll rephrase my question, has the average usercount been over 50 for over a week at some point of this channel's existance 19:22:21 can you run wireworld backwards? 19:22:48 faxathisia: No. 19:23:10 I mean list all predecessors for a state? 19:23:17 faxathisia: No. 19:23:23 why? 19:23:55 One example: KKKWWTHWKKK -> KKKWWWTHKKK -> KKKWWWWTKKK -> KKKWWWWWKKK 19:24:29 Or, to put it more simply, the next state of KKKWWWWWKKK is KKKWWWWWKKK, but the next state of KKKWWWWTKKK is also KKKWWWWWKKK 19:31:28 i am making some apple wine :D 19:33:17 you can definately list all the possible predecessors for a state, though 19:33:21 definitely 19:34:02 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:36:17 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:44:21 oklopol: Sure, but that's hardly reversing it :P 19:50:10 no one said anything about reversing! 19:50:17 well, no one said the exact word. 19:50:45 what can you call listing all possible predecessors? 19:50:58 inverting or something 19:51:51 i can has fermentation! 19:53:15 bsmntbombdood: can has taste? 19:53:32 your apple wines that is' 19:55:50 ? 19:58:52 i hope this turns out good 19:59:45 can i taste your juices, is what i'm asking 20:00:11 ummmm 20:00:16 you want me to mail you some? 20:00:56 yes, please 20:01:58 how about you visit your local supermarket and get some 20:02:01 much faster 20:02:22 oh, or do you mean _my_ juices? 20:02:26 :P 20:04:47 EgoBot: help 20:04:52 ? 20:05:02 >> unlambda ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:09:00 >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:09:09 >>> ski ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:09:12 >>> sk ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:09:16 >>> help 20:09:17 These are all the cmds currently in ololobot: 20:09:17 bf, bs, expr, help, numbda, pl, ul, dict, feed, sch, choose, rt, d, o, x, k, i, s, factors, in-pr, in-po, in-fi 20:09:30 >>> ul i 20:09:30 -> i 20:09:50 >>> ul `ii 20:09:50 -> i 20:09:57 >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:34:37 oh 20:34:40 r 20:34:44 it does not support that 20:35:02 >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`k*r``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:35:07 >>> ul ```s``s``sii`ki`k.*``s``s`ks``s`k`s`ks``s``s`ks``s`k`s`k.r``s`k`sikk`k``s`ksk 20:40:22 Nums = "seven" withkey 7,"one" withkey 1,"three" withkey 3 20:40:22 sort Nums 20:40:22 out (Val foreach Nums) 20:47:56 it's bubbling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 21:25:29 >>> bf >++++++++++[<+++++++++++>-]<+.>++++[<---->-]<..>++++[<++++>-]<. 21:30:00 >:| 21:32:06 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:37:10 hmm 21:37:19 >>> bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. 21:37:27 ... 21:38:21 bsmntbombdood: what are you sorting? 21:38:31 sorting? 21:38:51 heh 21:40:00 i don't get it 21:42:48 o__o 21:42:48 A 21:43:05 heh 21:43:09 []:D 21:43:52 nice, a spontaneous 5 minute lag :) 21:43:58 got ping timeouted in quakenet 21:44:17 anyhow, bubbles 21:44:29 sort 21:44:51 i need to sleep a bit -> 21:48:24 the juice is bubbling 21:48:30 not bubble sort >_< 21:52:03 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:10:41 -!- ihope___ has joined. 22:10:47 -!- ihope___ has changed nick to ihope_. 22:11:58 http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0729moore.html 22:16:15 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:16:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:23:36 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:23:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 22:42:31 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 22:44:12 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:44:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:44:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:49:14 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:08:39 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:10:12 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:11:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:23:05 -!- ihope_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:25:11 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 23:39:24 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:49:38 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 2007-11-29: 00:21:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:21:50 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:31:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:22:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 01:26:31 -!- faxathisia has quit (Connection reset by peer). 01:45:19 -!- faxathisia has joined. 01:54:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:54:00 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:07:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 02:07:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:04:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:05:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:13:30 hey oerjan :D 03:14:12 my idea worked by 03:14:14 the way, http://rafb.net/p/j1qfFS49.txt 03:14:32 I can reverse life using minesweeper.. but I think I shall rewrite it so it runs faster 03:15:07 (the rube goldberg method) 03:15:15 It be oerjan. 03:15:24 oh it surely should work in principle, the point about NP-complete problems is that you _can_ reduce them to each other :) 03:15:50 You can. . . Reverse the Game of Life? 03:15:54 I didn't know that running game of life backwards is NP complete :p 03:15:58 although 1 step of life probably isn't NP-complete 03:16:12 * pikhq hands you a Garden of Eden position. 03:16:16 Reverse it. I dare you. 03:16:18 pikhq: I get a list of zero 03:16:20 :p 03:16:24 although I haven't tried any of those 03:16:35 we are talking about reversing to a set, of course 03:16:43 (possibly non-empty) 03:17:31 hmmm 03:17:37 I think I should try actually reversing it directly 03:17:42 instead of this stupid roundabout method :p 03:18:02 (though I'm not sure how to do that) 03:18:37 constraint solving is the keyword to look for i think 03:18:52 I'm reading about ECLiPSe now 03:19:03 seems amazing 03:19:50 i would not be surprised if running n steps backwards of GOL is NP-complete though 03:20:18 in fact, it almost surely is 03:20:27 what about 1 step? 03:20:34 I mean why do you say, n steps specifically? 03:20:55 i mean that you may need to have n on the order of the board size 03:21:18 because 1 step may not intertwine far-away parts 03:21:43 otoh it _might_, if there is a graph problem like 3-coloring encodable in just one step 03:22:06 ok, 1 step may or may not be NP-complete 03:22:18 :D 03:22:31 here's something I want to find out 03:24:23 -!- immibis has joined. 03:47:40 the esolangs.org wiki keeps giving me this error: http://pastebin.ca/801283 03:51:05 i'm getting it fine 03:51:51 mind you it has had errors in the past 03:52:46 it gives me that error quite often and it always works when i refresh it. 03:54:40 yeah I see that error a lot 03:54:45 sometimes goes away when you reload 04:34:38 -!- lament has joined. 04:34:48 oh man, you just reminded me about this channel 04:34:52 ayeeh 04:35:05 It's Lament's Laments! 04:35:22 hrr hrr 04:47:53 har de har har 04:48:10 if stephen hawking were here he would be laughing his ass off at that play on words 05:01:26 i would say that's a grey view of it 05:19:24 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:25:48 * immibis found two ways to open the root of the C: drive and two ways to get to a command prompt (both of which are disabled) in his school network. 05:26:09 i mean, disabled = not supposed to be able to do it 05:29:36 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:31:06 Cute. 05:31:15 (I've done the same. Not too difficult) 05:38:08 shortcuts and batch files have something to do with it. i won't tell you the rest in case you know people who go to that school. 05:45:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:46:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:46:49 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:51:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:55:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("Coffee (and brownie?)"). 06:08:27 -!- faxathisia has quit. 06:11:40 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:11:42 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 07:40:43 * immibis waits patiently 07:49:22 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CAR). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:11:06 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:21:19 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:37:53 -!- jix has joined. 09:44:49 -!- clayrat has joined. 10:10:16 -!- Jontte has joined. 10:14:52 -!- Jontte has quit (Client Quit). 13:04:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:20:53 -!- tola has joined. 13:21:10 -!- tola has left (?). 13:23:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:32:04 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 14:10:04 -!- maristo has joined. 14:10:18 -!- maristo has left (?). 14:12:32 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p354454544.txt making a language for programming labyrinth explorers, i guess 14:13:19 made pattern matching first-class, as demonstrated in that code (creation of an Idle pattern inside Enter) 14:14:27 once again i've polluted the language with so much syntax and "intelligence", i'll prolly not manage to implement it. 14:14:39 but it's nice to code in 14:16:09 the program running the labyrinth explorers should send an Idle message at least a few times a second, enter should be sent after a move, and so on 14:17:04 if a (Move Direction)-pattern is returned, the guy should be moved to given direction 14:21:12 hmm 14:21:46 so its like the guy moves according to language restrictions and the programmer supplies the maze? 14:24:12 well, the language has nothing to do with labyrinths, it's just made for creating AI's for exploring labyrinths 14:24:58 if Move [1 0] is returned, the guy will move east, but that is just convention 14:25:25 the labyrinth is external to the labyrinth, and will be supplied in a different program 14:27:16 basically, a guy will get messages like [Enter [room coords]] and [Idle 5.09], and may return a message like [Move [0 -1]] or [Commit Suicide] 14:27:49 [EatenBy Grue] 14:28:05 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:29:40 a guy would prolly not be told he's been eaten, since being eaten is lethal, though 14:29:54 that though was a bit out of place 14:30:23 (a guy would prolly not be told he's been eaten, since being eaten is lethal), though 14:30:43 hmm... that doesn't work either... 14:30:53 [Enter BrightTunnelOfLight] 14:31:48 so... first-class pattern matching, is that a new idea? 14:32:28 i've been trying to come up with something new for ages, i just always later find out it's already been come up with 14:32:42 i guess that happens to everyone 14:33:10 probably not new 14:33:56 well, there's only a thin line between that and just having... well, variables 14:34:15 that's a bit like a generalization of 'em 14:34:21 first-class patterns is one of the things some people would like in haskell but which they never agree on the precise syntax and semantics for 14:34:30 oh 14:34:46 i don't just have them first-class, i also have them mutable, btw :) 14:34:51 also, views 14:34:56 as you can *clearly* see in the code 14:35:03 well haskell usually does not do that :) 14:35:07 views? 14:35:12 yes, that's why i meantioned it 14:35:18 meanaem 14:35:35 (palindrome not intended.) 14:35:41 views are like definable pattern matching 14:36:06 hmm, interesting, wanna enlighten me about them? 14:36:07 since ordinary haskell only has the patterns that come with each data type definition 14:36:27 yeah 14:36:38 err umm 14:36:44 and... function definition? 14:37:01 but sometimes you would like to define some pattern matching that is not just the internal data representation 14:37:37 function definitions don't define new pattern types, they only use those already defined 14:38:29 for example the Data.Sequence module defines |> and <| patterns iirc to match only the left or right end of a sequence 14:39:20 but because haskell does not have views you need to apply a function to a Seq to make it into the data type that has the pattern 14:39:41 ah, i now realize what is confusing me is i do not know how to make new patterns in haskell. 14:39:45 :P 14:40:21 in haskell each data type defines new constructors that automatically give both a constructing function and a deconstructing pattern 14:40:28 oh 14:40:33 like x:xs is 14:40:40 yep 14:41:12 that's so awesome i wanna cry 14:41:16 well 14:41:21 not that awesome, but quite. 14:42:18 hmmmm 14:42:38 however if the data structure is abstract and you don't want to expose its _real_ constructors (like with Sequence which is internally a kind of tree), then haskell gives you no way of defining a different set of patterns directly on that data type 14:43:04 i see 14:43:07 so you instead must do something like 14:43:34 case viewl seq of x :< rest -> ... 14:43:45 sad :< 14:44:31 what's viewl? 14:44:43 viewl :: Seq a -> ViewL a 14:45:15 it take a sequence and turns into the ViewL data type for which :< is a constructor 14:45:19 *takes 14:46:02 so it's a hack around the fact you cannot define the :< pattern directly on Seq a 14:47:06 there is also viewr and :> for the other end 14:47:18 nice :> 14:47:49 happy code 14:48:49 i'd like to start implementing, but i need to leave in an hour anyway 14:48:53 * oklopol is not happy 14:51:36 bad event upcoming? 14:55:34 -!- Jontte has joined. 14:55:50 -!- Jontte has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:14:15 it's relatively nice for an event, it's just i generally dislike events. 15:14:28 band practise 15:15:00 um, why are you in a band if you don't like it :D 15:15:48 i like being in a band, and i like practising, i just don't like going to the practise 15:15:54 the same thing with school 15:16:02 except that some classes are very boring 15:17:39 same thing with anything really, i hate going out, would prefer just sitting here 15:18:55 wonder if i could retire when i turn 19... 15:20:30 * oerjan wants to protest but is too lazy himself... 15:21:06 hmm, what exactly do you wanna protest? 15:22:25 your apparent desire to physically isolate yourself 15:24:01 well, actually, i have nothing against going places, what i dislike is having to go somewhere 15:24:10 that better= 15:24:11 ? 15:24:52 i suppose so :) 15:24:57 usually, if someone spontaneously asks me to take a 10 hours walk with them, i say yes 15:25:27 this is not as rare as you might think, given my circle of friends 15:26:22 wonder if "circle of friends" is correct 15:26:31 i think so 15:27:15 sounds right to me, but i always get a bit paranoid when i realize a saying is the exact same in Finnish 15:27:30 had to uppercase it because i seem to have a typing checker in this client 15:30:05 also, i think finland has the greatest people-here/overall-population -rate 15:30:33 ? 15:31:00 fiz, me and jontte, who i now realize isn't here anymore 15:31:11 oh on the channel 15:31:36 yep 15:32:14 some wicked little voice in my head said "yeah, they all sit in their forest huts drinking and no one ever travels" 15:32:17 a friend of mine has been meaning to start regularing here, but he's too lazy to put the chan on autojoin 15:32:21 that would make 4 :\ 15:33:04 (interpreting here=in-finland) 15:33:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:34:22 well, finland definately has the greatest people-in-finland/overall-population-in-finland rate 15:34:33 definitely 15:34:54 ah yes indeed 15:35:11 then again, so does any other country. 15:36:37 i am not so sure, there are some countries that have more immigrants than natives 15:37:11 Qatar i think 15:37:13 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 15:37:40 yes, unfortunately those countries still have the same people-in-finland/overall-population-in-finland rate 15:37:48 (haw haw) 15:38:15 hey wait a minute 15:38:30 constant functions are no fun 15:39:17 sure they are 15:39:20 i interpreted people-in-finland as people from that country in finland 15:39:22 didn't your see my haws? 15:40:55 well, out of finland's population, over 50% is finns, so finland's rate would still be the greatest. 15:41:31 english's lambda support is pretty bad :\ 15:47:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:16:04 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:53:23 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:53:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:53:37 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:54:10 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 18:09:14 -!- oerjan has quit ("No, more madness!"). 18:12:34 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:31:49 -!- faxathisia has joined. 18:39:26 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:53:30 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:12:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 19:15:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:48:10 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:01:58 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:01:59 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:11:52 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has joined. 20:16:06 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:18:37 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:27:20 -!- jix has joined. 20:43:48 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/2007111504]"). 21:44:10 -!- Jontte has joined. 21:53:38 geh 21:53:41 my wine is smelling 21:56:42 ... or does it have an ODOR? 21:58:06 yes 21:58:19 :) 22:00:15 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:23:29 :( 22:27:26 the world is a sad place 22:27:48 one problem with band practise is the other guys don't really have a life outside the band 22:27:50 very 22:27:59 life as in need to code and irc 22:31:20 (regarding the fact i was gone for well over 6 hours) 22:41:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:41:19 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:54:04 -!- ihope_ has joined. 22:55:19 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined. 22:57:23 Please find the greatest contiguous sum of the following sequence: -1, 2, -3, 2, 0, 5, -11 22:57:26 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 22:58:08 7, I'd say. 22:58:43 2 and 2, 0, 5 are the only "islands" of positive. You can include one or the other, or you can include both. Including just 2, 0 and 5 gives you a higher sum than including both. 23:01:55 yeah it's 7 23:10:00 is that general problem NP-complete? 23:10:24 no wait, i guess there's no way it could be 23:10:25 I think so yes.. 23:10:30 really? why? 23:10:33 well it's NP complete for rectangles 23:10:35 I think I read that.. 23:10:52 rectangles? 23:11:06 if you have a matrix of numbers what's the submatrix with biggest tota 23:11:12 l 23:12:16 if you brute-force the one-dimensional version, isn't it O(n^2)? 23:12:32 greatest contiguous sum can be solved in O(n) 23:12:59 no wonder you're a bored college guy, you need a more interesting problem 23:13:16 do I? 23:14:08 http://acm.uva.es/problemset/v1/108.html 23:14:57 is maximal sub-rectangle NP complete? :( 23:16:08 dunno. I just had my 4th day of theory of comp this morning. 23:16:10 well, to brute force it, you'd have to try rectangles starting at each of n*m origins 23:17:07 ok it's certainly NP hard 23:17:13 I guess it's not NP complete 23:17:27 and I'm wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subset_sum_problem 23:18:24 wait. but then, from each origin at column a, row b, you have to try rectangles with each of (n-a+1) widths and (m-b+1) heights, so (n-a+1)*(m-b+1) rectangles 23:18:34 so it's O(n^2m^2), no? 23:18:37 at worst? 23:26:26 Yeah, seems so. 23:28:28 A problem that's in P is in NP if and only if P = NP. 23:59:58 -!- Corun has joined. 2007-11-30: 00:00:04 -!- CrackBunny has joined. 00:00:19 -!- CrackBunny has left (?). 00:02:09 -!- Corun has changed nick to [. 00:02:16 -!- [ has changed nick to iDGCorun. 00:03:36 -!- iDGCorun has changed nick to IDG_SHIRT. 00:05:28 -!- IDG_SHIRT has changed nick to Corun. 00:05:39 -!- Corun has changed nick to IDG_SHIRT. 00:07:14 -!- IDG_SHIRT has left (?). 00:09:57 -!- ihope_ has changed nick to ihope. 00:40:56 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 00:49:09 -!- puzzlet__ has joined. 00:51:10 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:01:43 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Connection timed out). 01:08:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:37:40 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:46:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:53:07 -!- Tritonio__ has joined. 01:53:50 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:07:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:55:08 -!- AxleLonghorn_ has joined. 02:55:34 -!- AxleLonghorn_ has changed nick to AxleLonghorn. 02:56:14 -!- AxleLonghorn has left (?). 02:56:30 -!- AxleLonghorn has joined. 03:06:31 -!- immibis has joined. 03:14:31 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 03:21:46 -!- AxleLonghorn has left (?). 04:22:41 -!- puzzlet__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:22:43 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:39:36 -!- faxathisia has quit (Connection reset by peer). 04:41:01 -!- faxathisia has joined. 04:58:29 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:09:04 -!- calamari has joined. 05:10:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:10:39 -!- puzzlet has joined. 05:11:50 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A ). 05:17:49 -!- chuck has joined. 05:29:12 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 05:41:20 did anyone try Epigram? 05:47:36 What's Epigram? 05:49:01 It seems to be a programming language where you can have types depend on values 05:49:09 and sub-turing 05:49:14 but I don't really know much more 05:49:40 the code looks cool some examples on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigram_%28programming_language%29 05:50:13 fuck, wine smells more 05:57:44 more than what 06:02:30 than before 06:02:43 -!- chuck has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 06:10:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:12:16 is that general problem NP-complete? <<< no 06:12:28 although someone has prolly said that 06:13:29 I got confused 06:13:34 zero sum is NP complete apparentlly 06:13:42 but this isn't zero sum, it's maximizing 06:15:50 i think i'll put it in the crawlspace 06:16:18 ...why am i talking about this in here 06:16:54 faxathisia: i think you mean on where any subset can be taken 06:17:21 oklopol: that would be even easier, just take _all_ positives 06:17:22 anything that only cares about continuous sequences can be no 06:17:24 np 06:17:38 oerjan: for the max, yes, not the zeroing 06:17:52 right 06:17:52 *mean one where 06:18:18 anyway, the 2d one is np? did someone say that or did i misunderstand something 06:18:24 oh, and of course for maximizing under a bound (knapsack) 06:18:25 how could it possibly be 06:18:32 yeah 06:19:01 oh, he was talking about subset sumzorz 06:19:58 wonder if generalizing that to hypercube sum makes it np 06:20:10 or is hypercube a tesseract? 06:20:18 i knows nothings 06:21:29 * oerjan vaguely recalls those are the same thing 06:21:51 or maybe hypercube is for all dimensions 06:21:56 i mean, can hypercube be used for further dimensions as well 06:22:04 eh 06:22:22 i hate it when people steal my thoughts 06:22:25 only one way to find out 06:22:29 teh google! 06:22:46 and teh wikipedia! 06:22:58 only _two ways_ to find out 06:23:11 teh google, teh wikipedia, and teh mathworld 06:23:57 the fourth way is asking the spanish inquisition, which is not recommended 06:24:43 indeed, time travel sometimes leads to catastrophes 06:24:45 anyway it's apparently arbitrary n 06:24:55 * oklopol knew! 06:25:39 hmm, the typing checker doesn't know "tesseract", is that the correct form, now that you have your pedias open 06:25:53 i closed them again 06:25:58 (since you can't possibly just know that...) 06:26:01 but i think that was it 06:26:16 and i did see it but i did not rememorize the spelling :) 06:27:02 i learned the word from watching hypercube in french 06:27:07 if you know the series 06:27:25 i don't 06:27:29 i've actually pointer you out a paradox from that movie, although you don't remember it 06:27:36 *pointed 06:30:18 no one remembers. it's a paradox! 06:30:40 oh and that sub-hypercube thing. 06:30:55 n dimensions, 2^n elements 06:31:26 3^n sub-hypercubes i think 06:31:43 (for each coordinate, take both, 0 or neither) 06:32:57 3^(log 2 x) = (3^log 2)^x, still a polynomial number in the original elements 06:33:04 oh wait 06:33:14 er, no 06:33:44 darn i'm not supposed to do _that_ kind of silly mistake :D 06:34:18 lessee 06:34:19 why can't you take 1, why just 0? 06:34:28 er, i meant 1 06:34:34 you cannot take neither 06:34:39 then 4^ 06:34:42 oh 06:34:43 indeed 06:34:48 oh right, i'm forgetting to eat breakfast 06:35:40 breakfast is for melvins 06:35:48 * oklopol learned a new word 06:35:54 my brain does not work without food 06:38:22 actually, i think this kind of brain usage is for melvins too 06:38:41 not sure whether it means "geek" or "gay", no real difference in usage 06:40:46 never heard it 06:41:08 so back to this thing which my intuition tells me _is_ polynomial 06:41:52 3^(log 2 n) = 2^(log 3*log 2 n) = n^log 3 Q.E.D. 06:42:47 so you can check all sub-hypercubes in n^log 2 3 time 06:43:20 n^log_2 3 06:43:40 every circle of kiddo buddies comes up with their own set of words, and there are about a quadrillion kids in the us 06:43:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:43:47 i'd be surprised if you'd heard it 06:44:03 * oklopol should memorize urbandictionary 06:44:15 er times some overhead per cube, which is linear 06:44:55 -!- johnk_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:45:23 exercise: pepper your speech with words used differently than most people do. if challenged point to a dictionary 06:45:50 * oerjan now wonders if "pepper" is used in that sense in english 06:46:50 yep 06:47:03 it seems so, at least close to it 06:47:09 now, the 3 there is related to 2 06:47:18 why not generalize for any cube size? 06:47:56 n_1*n_2*...*n_k gives (n_1+1)*...*(n_k+1) subcubes 06:48:41 is that so? 06:48:49 er, no 06:49:09 i'd say it's quadratic growth 06:49:30 hm right if it's to be consecutive 06:49:51 i mean, the number of continuous segments in a list 06:49:53 and multiplying quadratic things are still quadratic 06:49:54 easy to calc 06:50:09 although still too much for me without paper.. 06:50:17 ehm 06:50:25 quadratic * quadratic is quartic 06:50:34 not in this case 06:50:42 hey, don't get colloquial with me! thazz no proof! 06:50:51 because you also multiply the things you start squaring 06:51:09 <= (n_1^2)*...*(n_k^2) subcubes 06:51:16 = (n_1*...*n_k)^2 06:51:42 rrrright 06:52:53 people at the computer science classes look at me like a geek when i'm reading coding theory xD 06:53:00 not classes, lectures 06:53:00 i say that's proof enough 06:53:01 anyhow 06:53:51 i say that's pretty proof 06:53:54 quite indeed 06:54:05 why didn't i eat anything... i'm hungry too 06:54:17 i'm gonna go melvin it up -> 06:54:23 because you're pretending to be the anti-melvin :) 06:59:54 it's funny, most of the time when reading math i'm thinking of ways to enhance the notation itself; math doesn't really try alternative notations that much, why is that :\ 07:00:10 the notation used today is like 70 billion years old right? 07:01:53 not always 07:02:58 some things do get more efficient notation occasionally 07:05:13 i guess a reason why the main notation is uaually the same could be that, unlike with programming, you can just use any other notation you want 07:07:19 sss 07:08:01 like these days i think few people use Boole's notation for Boolean formulas 07:08:18 ab = a and b, a+b = a or b 07:09:09 well, in that case the mathematical notation definately owns 07:09:10 definitely 07:09:20 which one? 07:09:28 *+ 07:09:48 boole's notation was with "and" and "or"? 07:09:59 wasn't it the one with those weird characters? 07:10:08 no the other way around 07:10:22 i did not give the modern one 07:10:31 it may not be entirely consistent, hm 07:10:54 well, "and" and "or" are definately too verbose for anything 07:10:56 definitely 07:12:16 /\ and \/ are probably most common now 07:12:48 we used those in school for the first few lessons 07:12:54 then moved to * and + 07:13:03 oh 07:13:11 after which /\ and \/ were considered bad-. 07:13:16 *-- 07:13:20 Why what is wrong with /\ and \/ 07:13:20 ? 07:14:19 teachers tend to want the students to use the system used in classes 07:14:30 to make checking a simpler process 07:16:19 i do vaguely recall my father has an old book which uses * + 07:16:57 about digital circuits 07:17:29 must have been my first introduction to boolean algebra 07:18:10 but nowadays - when you know about boolean rings, you realize it is xor that is the addition :) 07:18:57 yeah 07:19:07 i realized that right away, but the teacher didn't mention it 07:19:29 i almost yelled it out loud 07:19:52 when were boolean rings come up with? 07:20:08 -!- johnk has joined. 07:21:13 don't know 07:23:25 prime fields are the coolest thing ever, the lives of those before the must have been quite meaningless 07:24:07 what is a prime field? 07:24:16 hmm 07:24:22 that's prolly not the right term 07:24:49 like, a field over (mod p) where p is prime 07:25:03 galois field, except that also includes p^n 07:25:18 well, any field really other than reals is pretty awesome 07:25:35 yeah i don't know about n!=1, since the book hasn't considered that :P 07:25:46 prime field seems to be used 07:26:09 i think n!=1 is even more awesome 07:26:18 is that so? 07:26:20 impress me! 07:26:32 they're harder to find 07:27:28 i almost ejaculated when i heard there's always a generator member in the field whose exponents create every other member of the field 07:27:45 will the size 2^16 (i think) field i hid in my INTERCAL Unlambda interpreter do? 07:28:01 :D 07:28:27 hmm... every p^n, where n!=1 is not a field? 07:28:37 i discovered in INTERCAL it was easier to do a multiplication over that field than actually incrementing a variable :) 07:29:12 on a side note, i should learn intercal 07:29:28 Z(p^n) is not a field for n!=1, indeed 07:30:02 only some are? 07:30:12 but there _is_ a field of size p^n, which is not the same as calculating mod p^n 07:30:21 ah, right 07:30:25 it's called GF(p^n) 07:31:01 in that case, it is pretty awesome 07:31:43 also, there is exactly one of each size 07:31:53 :O 07:32:02 up to isomorphism 07:32:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_field 07:32:48 why the fuck isn't this taught at school, discrete math is a fucking mental orgy 07:33:16 well as i said these are harder to find 07:34:44 i meant why am i learning all this now that i'm already old and wrinkled 07:34:52 o_O 07:35:09 oh, right, sorry :P 07:35:24 what i mean is, this should be taught before integration and that shit 07:36:07 or, calculus could be taught in physics, and math could concentrate on the interesting stuff 07:38:04 i mean, these things seem so fundamental every time i hear something like that, i feel i gain +1 lev 07:38:23 and these are levels i could've gained in elementary school 07:49:25 surely galois did not die in a duel, his head exploded from all the awesome 07:52:58 yeah and abel didn't die of tuberculosis either sorry, don't know enough history to get the reference :P 07:56:51 i need to come up with something completely new, or stop reading about these guys 07:57:00 wonder which one is easier 07:58:01 Niels Henrik Abel, the greatest norwegian mathematician, died 27 years old 07:58:46 er 26 07:59:05 i know that much, i'm just assuming you were pointing out a conspiracy of some sort! 07:59:35 a conspiracy to prevent the world from learning about unsolvable equations! 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:06 why do you _think_ Godel was paranoid, hm? 08:00:08 well, those were kind of a bummer 08:00:38 just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is after you 08:00:48 oh and Turing didn't fare so well either 08:01:22 hmm... this may be the reason discrete math is *not* taught in elementary school 08:01:33 it makes your brain pop 08:01:45 hmm 08:01:53 i guess math in general 08:08:08 the other day, i realized what i wanna be when i grow up 08:08:34 a god 08:08:38 like, that'd be so cool 08:09:04 wonder if that's a wanted occupation? 08:09:32 i'm willing to compromise on the size of the world i'm goding 08:14:41 you could do like Mobius's major Grubert and inflate the world from inside 08:15:44 i think i'd prefer a simpler world, tbh 08:16:25 universe simulator programmers get paid well, right? 08:16:59 the problem is the pay is virtual, i hear 08:17:43 i guess when i have my own universe, i don't have to care squat about this one 08:18:07 anyhow, i don't get category theory based on wikipedia, unless morphisms are just functions 08:18:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:18:18 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 08:18:51 not necessarily 08:20:39 hmm... is a category like a system of axioms? 08:21:05 i don't get the analogue of morphisms in that case, since axioms are always bijective functions 08:21:17 huh? 08:21:23 axioms are propositions 08:21:32 hmm 08:21:55 aren't they tautologies over the object system in use? 08:22:14 equalities that is 08:22:27 not all propositions are equalities 08:22:33 i see 08:23:02 indeed 08:23:17 the kind of system with a set of equations like for groups and rings is called a variety of algebras 08:23:20 i was just assuming you could reduce them to equalities, i guess you can't 08:23:48 and axioms are more general than that 08:23:52 ? 08:23:54 yep 08:24:08 understandable, i just haven't seen anything else. 08:24:16 e.g. the axioms for ZFC are not all equations 08:24:16 else than equations 08:24:28 hmm 08:24:39 then i definately have seen them... 08:24:41 just don't remember 08:24:44 definitely 08:24:45 ... 08:25:30 hmm, indeed, they aren't equations 08:25:39 i just like thinking of axioms as reduction rules 08:26:11 in which case equations are the nicest representation 08:26:38 logics often have only one-way reduction 08:26:48 assume this, conclude that 08:26:58 trues you say 08:27:35 although for many you have a way to rephrase it as an equation 08:28:05 yeah 08:28:15 e.g. a => b can be rephrased as a or b = b 08:28:22 i need to take a shower, gotta leave soon 08:28:32 hmm 08:28:52 is that an example of it, or the general way to make any => into an equation :P 08:29:09 i think that's general, in boolean logic anyhow 08:29:51 is there a branch of math that somehow considers the number of steps needed for proofs? 08:29:55 actually an even more general way is as (a => b) = True 08:29:59 or reduction steps 08:30:26 i vaguely recall... 08:30:31 i mean, of course every branch considers that as part of themselves, but a more general one 08:30:45 ah, right :) 08:31:06 i think essentially that's complexity theory, when you apply the curry-howard isomorphism 08:31:15 between logics and programs 08:31:18 hmm, what's the chi? 08:31:21 CHI 08:31:35 ouch 08:31:38 :P 08:32:12 there is a correspondence between propositions and proofs on the one side, and types and programs on the other 08:32:47 i see 08:33:01 originally, intuitionistic propositional logic <=> simply typed lambda calculus 08:33:07 and that's what all the fuzz about automatic proving of programs is all about? 08:33:30 i see 08:33:34 but gotta leave now 08:33:37 cya 08:33:39 ->>>>> 08:33:42 bye 08:33:49 -!- clayrat has joined. 09:13:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:32:23 -!- faxathisia has quit. 11:26:41 -!- Jontte has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 12:00:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 12:42:43 Yay, category theory. 12:44:12 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:13 -!- sekhmet has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:13 -!- cmeme has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:13 -!- Possum has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:19 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:19 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:20 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:20 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:20 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:20 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:44:20 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:45:13 -!- ololobot has joined. 12:45:13 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 12:45:13 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:45:13 -!- dbc has joined. 12:45:13 -!- Overand has joined. 12:45:13 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:45:13 -!- GregorR has joined. 12:45:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 12:45:28 -!- Possum has joined. 12:45:28 -!- cmeme has joined. 12:45:28 -!- sekhmet has joined. 13:00:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:01:33 -!- drwilco has joined. 13:06:34 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:11:52 -!- sebbu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:52 -!- dbc has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- SimonRC has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- Overand has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- GregorR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- oklopol has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:11:53 -!- ololobot has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:12:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:12:12 -!- ololobot has joined. 13:12:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:12:12 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:12:12 -!- dbc has joined. 13:12:12 -!- Overand has joined. 13:12:12 -!- SimonRC has joined. 13:12:12 -!- GregorR has joined. 13:12:19 -!- drwilco has changed nick to DocWilco. 13:13:08 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 13:17:37 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:02:11 -!- jix has joined. 14:36:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:38:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:43:24 o 14:44:23 now that is circular reasoning 14:44:45 Indeed. 14:45:21 It's like saying there's a morphism from A to B just because there's a morphism from B to B. :-P 14:45:53 ...no no, that was an o 14:46:00 Oh. 14:46:12 and o's are circular 14:46:15 In that case, it was... a very nice o. 14:48:31 -!- chuck has joined. 14:48:49 oerjan: circular? yes. reasoning? definately not 14:48:52 definitely 14:49:02 o's are the result of reasoning. 14:49:15 not at all to do with the process of reasoning 14:56:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 15:06:13 now _that_ is definitely circular reasoning 15:09:32 Circular reasoning makes me unhappy. 15:10:28 as long as it is not a downward spiral 15:10:41 Helical reasoning is just fine. 15:10:59 As a bonus, it's topologically equivalent to linear reasoning. 15:11:45 how could that be circular reasoning? i did not justify what i said at all, that can hardly be circular. 15:13:01 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined. 15:13:19 you were definitely reasoning about circles there 15:14:13 also remember rule #1: 63% of everything i say is a pun 15:14:46 Please generate 10 random numbers within the range [0,1023]. 15:15:46 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0. 15:18:02 [564,840,725,105,384,584,255,962,522,528] 15:18:08 oh, thank you. 15:19:08 oerjan: did you, by any chance, take 10 (randomRs (0, 1023) gen :: [Int])? 15:19:29 print.take 10.randomRs (0,1023::Int) =<< newStdGen 15:20:00 and it took me far too long to get that typed right :( 15:20:22 Took me longer. 15:20:35 Though only a little bit, I'm guessing. 15:23:02 Please, state the most difficult problem yet processed through this interpreter. 15:23:45 Well, gee... 15:23:53 i once processed a hello world 15:24:11 Coming up with a complete AI program running at a reasonable pace. 15:24:24 for what? 15:28:10 BoredCollegeGuy: unknown symbol- "most difficult" 15:28:48 fair enough. 15:30:01 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:30:02 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:30:03 Please, let "most difficult problem" be defined as the problem requiring more work from the interpreter than any other problem. Retry last request. 15:31:59 I've been asked to type the lyrics to 99b, but I'm not certain saying "go to hell" counts as processing the problem. 15:32:33 it does in IRP, in fact it's the canonical answer :) 15:32:34 considering the fact that that's a bug in the interpreter, I think I'd have to say no. 15:33:11 that is most definitely NOT a bug 15:33:23 IRP is by nature a nondeterministic language 15:34:01 hmm... do we have any nondeterministic languages in the wiki? 15:34:10 certainly 15:34:12 someone should fix the wiki then, I think. 15:34:17 hmm 15:34:19 Thue is one 15:34:22 i actually know a few myself 15:34:25 yeah 15:34:25 "Due to a bug in the IRP interpreter, it is very difficult to produce a working implementation of the 99 bottles program in this language." 15:34:34 LOLCATS is deterministic. 15:34:38 and that ofd d'main ovorl 15:34:42 LOLCODE, rather. 15:34:47 or smth 15:35:07 lolcode is nondeterministic? i rather doubt that 15:35:21 BoredCollegeGuy: i'm sure they'll get to adding an exception to that if they haven't already 15:36:17 oklopol: wait, you mean noit o' mnain worb? 15:36:36 yes, although i may confuse it to another language... not sure 15:36:43 i mean the one with the pressure thing 15:36:45 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has joined. 15:37:20 yeah 15:37:24 that's the one 15:37:38 yeah, that's nondeterministic 15:38:31 boooo. 15:38:39 this irc client won't let me /ghost. 15:39:23 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has quit (Client Quit). 15:40:08 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has joined. 15:40:18 well, that didn't work. 15:40:29 I don't suppose it lets you add new commands 15:40:32 does anyone here have rights to kick the other one? 15:40:49 pidgin? probably does. 15:41:00 Well, kicking won't let you change nicks. 15:41:04 at least lament has 15:41:04 try /quote ghost? 15:41:15 Can't you /msg NickServ GHOST BoredCollegeGuy password? 15:42:02 not a registered user, unfortunately. 15:42:21 it'll die eventually 15:42:30 oh well. 15:42:39 ooh. I thought of a fun one. 15:43:34 Please return a stack trace of the calculation of A(3,5) where A is the Ackermann function. 15:44:40 hm, this calls for something more than "Go to hell" 15:45:55 Go to Malebolge, You Fiend! 15:46:03 BoredCollegeGu1: will do! 15:46:57 * DocWilco points out to BoredCollegeGu1 that the topic contains "IRP in #irp" 15:46:59 =) 15:47:38 irp is okay if you know it's not 15:48:20 ENOSENSE 15:49:09 well, that too 15:49:32 that's another place where we could do with a wiki update then. 15:49:48 -!- clayrat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:50:05 * BoredCollegeGu1 is most definitely a newb around these parts. 15:50:22 me too 15:51:01 on the other hand, #irp seems to be unimplemented at this point. 15:51:31 oh nvm. I typoed irc instead of irp. 15:51:55 it's still quite unimplemented it seems =) 15:52:48 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:52:56 there's no #irc? where will all the irc'rs go then? :O 15:52:57 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:52:58 -!- jix has joined. 15:53:19 we are the diaspora! 15:54:00 BoredCollegeGu1: well, it's running. 15:54:11 Oh, it's finished. The answer is 61. 15:54:16 BoredCollegeGu1: you can change nicks now 15:54:26 ihope: cool trace 15:54:41 Except it isn't actually? Hmm. 15:54:58 Well, I'll give what it gave. 15:55:00 wait 15:55:14 i'm pretty sure the request was for the actual trace 15:55:21 Oh, it exceeded my scrollback. 15:55:27 -!- BoredCollegeGu1 has changed nick to BoredCollegeGuy. 15:55:28 :P 15:55:42 yeah, ackermann's complicated like that. 15:55:48 Now I need to stuff this into a file somehow. 15:58:15 -!- Tritonio__ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:08:47 Oh, that's why the program gave the wrong output. I gave it the wrong input. 16:09:11 always such a GIGOlo 16:09:44 lol! 16:12:18 i always have that problem, 100 lines of code, no bugs... and then i debug for 2 hours to find i was testing it with a different input than i thought 16:15:04 Good thing I saw the error immediately upon seeing the "stack trace". 16:15:13 And all this work just to get 253! 16:15:24 -!- iEhird has joined. 16:15:42 Is it a me-parody or an Apple user? 16:15:57 Or something entirely different? 16:16:25 its me on my iphone 16:16:52 using a native IRC client 16:18:22 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:18:35 -!- iEhird has joined. 16:19:01 They have an IRC client for iPhone? 16:19:05 iDoneBrokeIt 16:19:06 How 'bout VoIP? :P 16:19:08 yes 16:19:11 heh 16:19:13 maybe 16:19:31 I'm gonna go with "no" on VoIP, as that would undermine their business model :P 16:19:35 off your need to jailbreak it first 16:19:40 Oh 16:19:46 Well then probably :) 16:19:59 You jail-broke yours? Need to carefully not update it? :) 16:20:33 carefly not update more like press no when iTunes adis 16:20:42 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 16:21:06 I would think Apple's software would make it more difficult not to update. 16:21:14 nope 16:21:47 you are thinking of microsoft 16:22:12 No, I'm thinking of both Microsoft and Apple. 16:23:46 -!- EHIRDm has joined. 16:23:50 -!- jix has joined. 16:24:02 Hi from different client 16:24:06 Www 16:24:09 Fugly 16:24:13 -!- EHIRDm has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:24:44 gregor r appple products never do that to ne 16:25:36 >>> scm (+ 2 2) 16:26:01 >>> sch (+ 2 2) 16:26:01 4 16:26:16 iScheme :p 16:35:26 WTF spam call from my carrier XD 16:37:19 They want you to switch to the Snapple dyePhone 16:37:47 iBrick? 16:38:46 docwilcp I've found it significantly more useful than a brick 16:39:25 Clearly you've just been using bad bricks. 16:39:57 iEhird: well, I'm talking about the people who managed to brick it by hacking the provider lock and then upgrading firmware 16:40:08 and yes, I'm aware that that's been fixed 16:40:29 ah well jailbreaking cannot brick 16:40:40 its 100% as 16:40:47 as 16:40:49 sw 16:40:53 It's very very as. 16:41:07 It's as as as a's. 16:41:17 I would say that it's perhaps 95% as, I don't think it's reasonable to say it's 100% as though. 16:41:32 loool 16:41:41 It's as though they were such. 16:43:05 BoredCollegeGuy: well, it got as far as A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(1,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0,A(0, 16:43:05 as my ass. 16:43:07 A(0,A(1,139)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))). 16:43:44 SMITE! SMITE! 16:43:52 * ihope smites? 16:45:02 ackermann traces should be smote on sight 16:47:40 Ah. 16:50:07 that, and http://irregularwebcomic.net/41.html 16:58:34 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:59:56 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:13:10 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has joined. 17:35:28 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 17:35:28 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 17:45:38 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:02:13 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p511455216.txt <<< simplified some of the old syntax... and added tons more :)))) 18:21:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:43:04 http://www.realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html?cid=g1193&s_kwcid=ContentNetwork|1167384521&gclid=CPjLnaOOhJACFQtPMAodgB5tpg <<< useful pointers: i think The First Law of Thermodynamics part may be incorrect 18:45:59 ... 18:46:37 occasionally, i like trying to take these articles seriously 18:46:54 haven't succeeded yet 18:47:29 WTF? I'm trying to find any logic in any of this. 18:47:51 I fail to see any sort of connection between the random nonsense and "divine zomgsicles" 18:48:11 this may be the reason i have yet to succeed 18:48:52 no matter how many times i see that sort of crap, "Existance Of God Logically Proven" just has to be read :\ 18:49:55 "in fact, I learned that evolution is based entirely on faith, because no facts or proof have ever been found to support it!" 18:49:57 Hahahahahaahah 18:50:04 xD 18:50:13 I love how he just declares that as an absolute Truism. 18:51:51 i thought people hear proof about evolution in elementary school 18:54:14 Hahahaha, I clicked through to the Evolution - Facts, Fiction and Fallacy (or something like that) article, and he claims that scientists haven't drawn a line between macro- and micro-evolution because they can't even "agree" on "where the lines of these particular disciplines start and stop." 18:54:27 That's because the line is entirely invented - THERE IS NO LINE, you stupid dumbfuck X-D 18:55:41 Eh, "evolution" pretty much has two meanings, at least. 18:56:10 In 1967, scientists built an “Atomic Clock.” It uses Cesium 133 atoms because they oscillate (vibrate) at the rate of 9,192,631,770 times per second. This produces accuracy within one second every 30 million years! Wouldn’t you love a watch that accurate? Cesium 133 atoms never vary a single vibration. They are steady—constant—reliable—and cannot be an accident of nature that just “happens” to always turn out exactly the same. God had to 18:56:10 design the complexity and reliability of these atoms. No honest mind can believe otherwise. <<< i guess my mind is dishonest for crying "CA" out loud 18:56:18 whoops, longer paste than i thought 18:56:44 oklopol: Yeah, that in particular left me going "Uhh, what?" 18:57:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:57:56 Heh. 18:58:25 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:58:32 hi pikhq, long time no see 18:58:35 " Eh, "evolution" pretty much has two meanings, at least." Yes: The real meaning, and what these idiots have decided to interpret it as. 18:59:00 So "mankind evolved from something else" is not a real meaning of "evolution"? 19:00:06 i can determine that evolution happens purely philosophically 19:00:07 That's quite possibly the worst of them all. 19:00:15 That's a conclusion based on the definition of evolution. 19:00:38 Are there meanings other than "things evolve" and "mankind evolved from something else"? 19:01:09 "Mankind evolved from something else" is not a meaning of "evolution." 19:02:28 hmm... i don't really see how there are two meanings either 19:03:41 I'd recommend the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0 19:03:46 Evolution is change over time. That is, evolution is the derivative of state. Natural selection is the process by which biological organisms evolve in a nonrandom way. 19:03:58 it's a rather computer sciencey approach to evolution. 19:04:18 dude use genetic algorithms to evolve a clock from its components. 19:05:03 uses, even. 19:08:24 Hahahah, I love the "mating" clocks animation :P 19:08:59 there's also a guy who experimented with evolution & natural selection of ICs 19:09:38 one experiment eventually resulted in a circuit that did exactly what it had to, and noone could explain how it did it 19:12:18 nice 19:16:31 That's usually how genetic algorithms work :P 19:16:47 Just like lifeforms, the resulting algorithms are so complex you can only say "Uhhh ... it works for some reason." 19:24:31 DocWilco: do you have a link of any kind? 19:26:50 * ihope ponders chemistry simulation 19:26:59 Biochemistry simulation, that is. 19:27:37 Well, in order for chemistry to work, you have to have some type of energy storage. 19:28:58 A nice non-chemical way to store energy is temperature differences, so the "sun" could be replaced with a hot thing and a cold thing. 19:29:19 wewt i has some monies!! 19:29:58 Say that everything that hits the cold thing bounces back with half as much kinetic energy, and everything that hits the hot thing bounces back with more energy according to the amount of energy lost to the cold thing. 19:30:47 If the environment isn't quite ideal, organisms need to be able to separate themselves from it, so make it possible to build walls of some sort. 19:32:08 RNA can perform many functions, so maybe we should have nucleotides as atoms. 19:36:45 would "warm things" be constantly bouncing from somewhere to keep the buzz going? 19:36:59 hmm, not sure what you are aiming for with this 19:38:49 No; there'd be a perpetual source of coldness and a perpetual source of heat. 19:39:13 I'm trying to think of a biochemistry model that might produce "life". 19:41:02 Really, temperature differences aren't a very convenient way to power things. Some type of chemical energy would be better. 19:42:15 sounds interesting 19:42:18 Have some charged atoms and some "bubbles" in a two-to-one ratio and say that every bubble must contain at least two of these charged atoms at all time, and make bubbles not collide with anything. 19:42:58 ihope: hang on 19:43:08 If a positive-positive bubble comes near a negative-negative bubble, they'll come into contact and maybe turn into two positive-negative bubbles going faster. 19:43:31 hmm, where does the sign come from 19:43:52 right 19:43:55 charged atoms 19:44:17 i thought you'd specify what that means later, but charged does indeed already have a meaning 19:44:45 Actually, make it so that bubbles collide with bubbles if they come into contact at a low enough speed. 19:45:02 ihope: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ade.html 19:45:21 if they can attach to each other, and then later blow apart, makes it much more interesting 19:45:38 That way, you'll be able to have solid chunks of positive-positive and negative-negative that can ignite and explode. 19:45:46 Yup, that's what this would do. 19:46:30 this would be proving abiogenesis, of course 19:46:41 I guess so. 19:47:03 The clock video was sort of the same thing, since the original things weren't working clocks. 19:47:07 i don't think experiments have been as successful with that as they've been with evolution 19:47:22 hmm, not exactly 19:47:41 I guess the clocks had reproduction built in. 19:47:52 the problem with abiogenesis is we need the mutation and elimination systems to evolve without *any* system 19:48:08 which is essentially randomly choosing possibilities 19:49:12 and which is why abiogenesis might well be beyond our limits as we lack the million supercomputers it might need 19:51:03 i actually kinda lost my interest after i realized that.. :\ 19:51:26 rekindle it with your big words, ihope! 19:51:31 :-) 19:51:42 bigger! 19:51:47 We can start simple and work our way up from there! 19:52:05 We can prove abiogenesis one piece at a time so the times are added instead of multiplied! 19:52:26 hmm, true 19:52:36 You know. Prove that very simple particles can make useful particles, then prove that these useful particles can make useful mechanisms, then prove that these useful mechanisms can make a cell. 19:52:55 yeah, i know what you mean 19:53:08 Elimination is what happens when the energy source is overutilized, yes? 19:53:13 thought of that too, although unlike you, didn't realize right away it would be awesome :P 19:53:21 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:53:21 :-) 19:53:55 elimination shouldn't really be coded in any explicit way 19:54:02 Yeah. 19:54:14 hmph, had "in in" there, thought it was a typo :P 19:54:19 "coded in in any" 19:54:28 Still means the same thing. 19:54:56 Now, really, simulating particles bouncing off each other and all would be kind of computationally intensive, wouldn't it? 19:55:18 if you have a continuous world, definItely 19:55:36 Maybe we need to come up with a discrete world that can do the same thing. 19:56:19 Keep velocity continuous-ish, but make position discrete, and then have a random chance of moving based on velocity? 19:56:25 well, as WOLFRAM, MY IDOL demonstrated in A New Kind of Science, discrete worlds with may particles can produce continuous-like behaviour 19:56:31 *many 19:56:44 Maybe I need a copy of NKOS. 19:57:26 nah, the awesome rate is quite low 19:57:35 it's just easy reading, is why i read it 19:57:38 Oh. 19:57:41 ...and the ca's <3 19:57:53 Maybe you could just describe how this discrete-continuous stuff would work? 19:59:05 well, first of all, isn't the general view on the real world nowadays that it's discrete? 20:00:04 let's say you just have simple evolution rules, you can have growth and movement in some fraction of that evolution's speed 20:00:35 this is just like the real world works, a maximum speed (overall evolution speed of the underlying ca) 20:00:44 Well, what's required for life seems to be the big problem. 20:01:00 well, that was just a proof-ish, that it's possible 20:01:09 proof-ish-ish, i just mean, of course it's possible 20:01:35 but if we want it to actually work == something actually happens every step, i guess there might have to be a velocity of some sort 20:01:41 Suppose we make our universe a cellular automaton. Essentially, the goal of an organism is to occupy as much space as possible. 20:01:57 yeah 20:02:34 To achieve this goal, organisms that are unfit have to die. 20:03:18 The game of Go is not life; a group can become immortal. But I do like the basic mechanic. 20:03:30 now we'd prolly like to somehow consider a pack of particles an "object", so that there is clear attachment, since with a really simple rule, there won't really be "creatures", and most likely it will either die out, or some simple structure will fill the screen 20:03:39 hmm 20:03:59 The problem with CA, I guess, is that there might be a simple "crystal" that is the fittest possible arrangement. 20:04:17 Which is what you said, really. 20:04:25 yes, this is why we want particles to be able to attach in a somewhat explicit way 20:04:36 and not let particles just multiply like that. 20:04:57 Make there be entropy, which destroys things? 20:05:00 we can assume that if a certain praticle has evolved, it can have been evolved any number of times, right? 20:05:15 I guess so; I'm not sure what you mean. 20:05:57 Bleh, the particle system is such an easy way to create energy and entropy :-) 20:06:21 energy particles floating around? 20:06:32 No, temperature differences. 20:06:42 the problem is that will be exhausted 20:06:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:06:51 Not if you have a cold well and a hot well. 20:07:47 (Which probably isn't the right source of the word "well".) 20:07:53 true, but what would they do exactly? create new particles or give the old ones energy? 20:07:56 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:08:20 Giving the old ones energy would make them temperature wells; creating and destroying particles would make them pressure wells. 20:08:41 I guess pressure differences are also a form of energy. 20:09:56 hmm, i like the idea of a well making new particles, and another one destroying them; every creature would try to keep near the creator to avoid death 20:09:57 :P 20:10:21 Interesting idea. 20:10:51 there was a discrete simulation of water flowing against a wall, it created the same kind of vortexes real water does 20:10:59 although vortex isn't prolly the right word 20:11:24 I can't think of a better one, though isn't the plural "vortices"? 20:11:37 anyhow, something like that well idea, i thinks, might be better than an explicit algorithm for extracting the bad eggs 20:11:49 not according to my type checker 20:12:05 i wrote vortices first, it was underlined red 20:12:10 Huh. 20:12:33 On Google, "vortices" is more common. 20:13:03 both are okay 20:13:24 A simple criterion for reproduction is for particles to be able to make other particles more like themselves. 20:13:25 you should know that ;=) 20:13:57 ah, indeed, we are trying to get them to reproduce without external help, not to make a normal evulotion simulator 20:14:07 evu-lotion 20:14:16 Skin care product. 20:14:47 i could do with some, my evu hurts like hell 20:17:28 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:18:44 Well, energy sources have to be used up slowly. 20:19:56 If this universe weren't like that, everything would undergo a tremendous nuclear explosion and turn into iron or something. 20:20:38 * bsmntbombdood wants to go hitchhiking 20:20:53 we could have "organism" defined in the beginning of the simulation, but nothing resembling evolution; basically that would mean creating absolutely random thingies, and hope they'd start reproducing slow enough not to die because of lack of energy, but fast enough to take over the world 20:21:25 bsmntbombdood: move to finland, and i'll take you to the mountains 20:21:27 Ideally, the numbers would swiftly go toward optimum. 20:21:53 oklopol: cool :D 20:22:04 hmm... i guess we could use evolution to create evolution :P 20:22:15 Evolve evolution? 20:22:23 how feasable would it be for someone who only speaks english to travel alone? 20:22:50 that wouldn't really be cheating, just making finding a reproducing creature faster 20:22:51 travel where? 20:23:03 bsmntbombdood: in findland? 20:23:06 *finland 20:23:07 oklopol: yeah 20:23:31 or other parts of europe 20:23:55 it's hard to find a finn without enough english skills to be able to have a casual conversation 20:24:23 in france of germany... uh, learn french and german 20:25:04 not casual... that's not the word i'm looking for, i mean, pretty much everyone has a basic understanding of english 20:25:32 at least that's my experience, i do tend to overestimate people's skills 20:26:02 where is it possible to go without knowing another language? 20:26:06 *in europe 20:27:01 i'd say scandinavia, not france and germany, and i don't really know about the others. 20:27:05 England? 20:27:22 of course england, but who wants to go to england? 20:27:26 perhaps 20:27:26 :) 20:28:35 well, actually, i think you can get along pretty much anywhere 20:29:17 except france, according to what i've heard, which of course must be true, almost no one knows any english there 20:29:20 i'm semiseriously thinking about traveling in europe this summer with some people from school 20:29:21 I lived in europe for a while. about 70-80% of the population I encountered understood english well enough for most things. 20:29:38 BoredCollegeGuy: where? 20:30:46 germany. 20:30:54 three years about a decade ago. 20:33:18 i haven't met that many germans, was more concentrated on the fact i was allowed to buy beer 20:33:24 i mean, when i was there 20:34:03 oklopol: you probably speak like 6 languages, right? 20:34:09 and the chicks we stayed with may have been bad specimens, since i could easily correct their one of their's german test 20:34:17 and my german skills are average. 20:34:26 bsmntbombdood: sorry, still just 4 ;) 20:34:43 close enough 20:35:11 i was gonna learn lojban by christmas, but 1. you may not consider it a language 2. i'm pretty sure i'm gonna fail. 20:35:30 aw. no unambiguity for you. 20:35:30 oklopol: in france people now english and other languages if you try to speak french but fail 20:35:33 i recently learned my grampa speaks like 6 languages and i was O.o 20:35:38 but if you don't even try they just speak french 20:35:40 since i've stopped actively learning it 20:35:43 :<< 20:36:19 Learning a language in a month, eh? When did you make this plan to learn it by Christmas? 20:36:44 I take it you're no Daniel Tammet at learning languages. 20:37:42 i made it at the end of the summer; learning it in a month would be easy if i didn't have irc, school and band practise like 4 days a week. 20:37:54 daniel tammet? 20:40:39 hmm, icelandic in a week? if i could do that, i'd learned every major language already 20:40:44 *have 20:48:05 With all this speak of learning Lojban in a month, why is Spanish a four-year program at my high school? :-P 20:49:06 Well, Langton's loops are certainly a realization of a blueprint replicator, but I don't think many would argue that they're intelligent. 20:50:00 because 1. most people don't have a memorization system, and no such thing is taught at school; learning by example is slow 2. people study a few hours a feek 20:50:02 *week 20:50:47 there are 24 hours a day, and that talk about only 4 hours of learning per day being possible i declare utter bullshit without any justification. 20:51:09 Memorization system? 20:53:12 yes 20:53:39 Like flash cards? 20:54:02 Yeah. The kind you plug into a computer and/or your brain. 20:55:06 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 20:55:18 flash cards are an external system, that can help the learning process, but you actually need to know how to efficiently peggify every bit of new information internally, to actually be able to learn words quickly 20:55:31 peggify == create a memory peg you won't easily forget. 20:55:46 Please teach us, o master. 20:56:19 i'd gladly do that, if i'd succeeded in this myself. 20:57:08 i know some of the systems used for memorization, but i haven't really tested them much 20:57:41 some require a lot of work to get to work. 20:58:12 Interesting. 20:58:35 i did learn a card deck memorization technique to some extent, was able to learn 20 cards in order in about 4 minutes 20:59:19 unfortunately i get very paranoid when memorizing, since if i hate it when i fail; it's very displeasing at first... 20:59:27 whoope 20:59:32 *i hate it if i fail 20:59:54 err... goddammit 20:59:58 *-if 21:00:08 -!- BoredCollegeGuy has left (?). 21:00:10 Irony (n) i-ro-ny: This conversation. 21:00:21 hmm 21:00:22 why's that 21:00:52 How many times did you have to correct your statement that you hate it /when/ you fail? ^^ 21:01:09 I would have to say you /fail/ed to get it right in the first place :P 21:01:40 i meant when my memory fails, but i guess you have a point 21:02:26 i don't really care if i fail at typing 21:02:29 Joke (n) jo-ke: Something which oklopol will ruin through overexamination. 21:02:43 yes, this is usually intentional 21:02:47 :P 21:03:14 and even though i always do that, and often show no signs of it, i never get it when others do it. 21:03:39 I GUESS YOU GOTTA BE A SWAN TO KNOW A SWAN 21:04:18 uhh, i need coffee... 21:29:46 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:29:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:16:00 -!- ololobot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:17:14 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:17:52 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:28:42 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:30:35 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:30:42 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:37:33 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 23:10:36 -!- SEO_DUDE has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:32:29 -!- SEO_DUDE has joined. 23:52:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).