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01:26:28 <pikhq> I refuse to join #web.
01:28:18 <pikhq> The AFO and Agora's Child *also* refuse.
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04:21:12 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm reading a book about 6502 assembly that was written in 1979. It's great.
04:25:00 <RodgerTheGreat> I particularly enjoy the fact that when discussing high-level languages it only mentions FORTRAN, COBOL, Pascal, PL/1, APL and BASIC.
04:36:29 <RodgerTheGreat> "A bootstrap loader is a program that uses it's own first few instructions to load the rest of itself or another loader program into memory. The bootstrap loader may be in ROM, or you may need to enter it into the computer memory using front panel switches."
04:37:45 <RodgerTheGreat> Another fun feature is that "Computer user" and "Computer programmer" are used more or less interchangeably, because it's assumed anyone using a computer knows how to program it in some fashion.
04:50:44 <pikhq> Oooh, retrocomputing.
04:53:19 <RodgerTheGreat> I was once having lunch with some businesspeople and the conversation shifted to the C64. After going into a bunch of details about the chipset and intricacies of the BASIC implementation, one guy turned over to me and said "Wait... *how* old are you?"
04:56:03 <RodgerTheGreat> I will conquer this beautiful instruction set, I promise myself!
04:58:19 <RodgerTheGreat> "This mode means that the second byte of the instruction contains an address in the first 256 bytes of memory. That address and the next location contain an address which is added to the contents of the Y register to obtain the effective address."
04:58:40 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm really having difficulty imagining the cases in which this is useful.
04:59:32 <RodgerTheGreat> maybe to make it easier to re-use the constants used to point to an array or something?
05:00:58 <RodgerTheGreat> I suppose that way you wouldn't have to waste two bytes of immediate data where you can use one as a pointer and have all similar operations point to the same pair stored somewhere high in memory.
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18:36:44 <Slereah> Nah. It's just slow to drum up some activity.
18:37:10 <Slereah> Give them time to take a look at their IRC window!
18:37:20 <naerian> heh. what esolang do you like most? :D
18:37:40 <Slereah> Well, I got started on brainfuck.
18:37:53 <naerian> me too. I even wrote an interpreter of it :D
18:37:59 <Slereah> But for some reason, I got back on esolangs when reading about logic.
18:38:15 <Slereah> For some metatheorems, I had to read about Turing machines and such!
18:38:20 * oerjan dances a skeleton dance
18:39:33 <naerian> i'm thinking about an water-pipe esolang :P
18:40:43 <Slereah> And running it using real waterpipes? :O
18:40:50 <Slereah> How awesome would that be.
18:41:17 <Slereah> "Pump harder! I need those results!"
18:41:42 <naerian> heh, yeah that would be nice :P
18:41:56 <Slereah> I wonder if an actual Turing machine was ever built.
18:42:04 <Slereah> With some real tape and such.
18:42:23 <naerian> i think i've read about such Turing machine...
18:42:54 <Slereah> Infinite tape isn't cheap.
18:43:09 <Slereah> But you can sell half of it, and still have infinite tape!
18:51:26 <naerian> i can't find the photos of that TM now :P
18:52:07 <Slereah> I saw a very small Turing machine equivalent that used little trains.
18:53:20 <Slereah> http://www.monochrom.at/turingtrainterminal/pictures_eng.htm
18:53:57 <Slereah> http://www.monochrom.at/turingtrainterminal/schematics_eng.htm
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18:58:10 <naerian> have you saw any other projects of TM? :D
19:00:49 <Slereah> I still have some code that was supposed to emulate a Turing machine.
19:01:00 <Slereah> But I don't have a very long attention span.
19:01:21 <pikhq> I have a need to find something to cod.
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19:02:24 <Slereah> Right now, I'm trying to code up the final touch on my ludicrous calculator.
19:03:04 <naerian> and i'm thinking about making a small brainfuck system for Nintendo DS xD
19:06:06 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Calc9.txt
19:06:08 <pikhq> I should join the Fantasy Rules Commission and come up with a *really* annoying ordinance.
19:06:19 <Slereah> It can multiply 15 by itself in less than 2000 lines!
19:06:29 <Slereah> But, you know, with rigor.
19:06:30 <pikhq> Something that requires every further ordinance to be valid C?
19:07:14 <pikhq> Slereah: Call me less than impressed. *I* can shove that in 20,000 lines. :p
19:07:53 <pikhq> Hmm. A multiplication pass, with a built-in Glass interpreter, which is *only* used to call A.m?
19:08:05 <Slereah> Well, I guess you could make it all in ZFC axioms and (p|(q|r))|((s|(s|s))|((t|q)|((p|t)|(p|t)))) for propositional logic.
19:08:24 <Slereah> But I just wanted to do it with sum Peano's axioms.
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19:16:27 * oerjan thinks some people need tab completion
19:17:10 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: when you cannot spell thucydides you do
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19:18:08 <Slereah> Tab completion doesn't work if he's not here.
19:19:09 <oerjan> or it might be a feature request :D
19:21:36 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: it would actually be more of a trick to inflate an operation like that into 20,000 lines entirely without dead or unreachable code
19:22:49 <Slereah> Well, Metamath can decompose 2+2 in 23.000 steps.
19:23:32 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: Believe me, I can do it. :p
19:23:36 <RodgerTheGreat> that isn't exactly doing the computation, though- it's proving why it works from axioms
19:23:51 <pikhq> First, one needs to define your numbers.
19:24:04 <pikhq> Then define addition. As a recursive algorithm.
19:24:23 <Slereah> But technically, it is still computation :O
19:25:38 <Slereah> Although indeed I'm not sure if you could just enter 2+2 and get 2+2=2 at the exit. That's not exactly what's done there.
19:25:51 <oerjan> yay, Schnhage-Strassen
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19:28:36 <oerjan> ALL YOUR B*HIT BY FALLING PIANO*
19:29:02 <Slereah> I don't know much lambda calculus
19:29:04 <pikhq> But what's more fun then defining all numbers via Church numerals?
19:29:08 <pikhq> Speaking of which. . .
19:29:36 <pikhq> GregorR: Let Plof type "int" be castable to a function. ;)
19:43:28 <Slereah> I hate getting back on old code.
19:43:35 <Slereah> "What the fuck was that guy thinking?"
19:43:43 <Slereah> This is the mystery on the table!
19:48:16 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
20:48:33 <RodgerTheGreat> that's the thing about coding- the better you get the more you hate your past self
20:49:08 <RodgerTheGreat> In the past, I'd hack shit together. nowadays I try to write code hoping future self will approve.
20:50:47 <Slereah> Problem is, I kinda suck right now too :o
20:58:09 <oklopol> Slereah: were you the one who started at the age of 19?
20:59:08 <Slereah> And even right now, we don't learn any programming.
20:59:18 <Slereah> Just some integration algorithm.
21:00:15 <Slereah> There was an optional class about computation, computability and all that, but it got canceled before I could apply
21:00:36 <oklopol> what country? and no, i'm not going to whois!
21:00:57 <oklopol> they're cancelling everything interesting here too
21:01:10 <oklopol> the institute is prolly empty once i get there :P
21:03:07 <Slereah> I'll try to sneak in some CS class next year!
21:05:45 <Slereah> The cancelation made me sad, because the rest of the optional classes are horrible.
21:09:09 <oklopol> heh, i've spent hours just browsing the courses they have here :P
21:09:50 <oklopol> "uhhh i want that one.. and oh my god that's awesome.. wow, they have a course on cellular automata 8DD"
21:10:18 <Slereah> We don't have a whole lot of that, and I have access to even less, since I do physics.
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22:36:09 <oklopol> ski'ing is always hard, this is why most people name their parameters
22:41:27 <pikhq> I much prefer sk'ing.
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