00:01:04 <oklopol> heh, pygame is a wrapper over sdl
00:01:11 <ehird`> no
00:01:15 <ehird`> pygame is basically an sdl binding
00:01:26 <ehird`> it changes the names of stuff and adds a few extra bits. little more
00:01:55 <oklopol> == wrapper
00:02:33 <ehird`> no
00:02:36 <ehird`> wrapper is thicker
00:02:41 <oklopol> heh
00:02:43 <ehird`> wrapper adds sugar to everything and hides the icky internals
00:02:48 <oklopol> well, i'm no philosopher
00:06:16 <ehird`> pygame is just so low level
00:06:45 <oklopol> is it now?
00:07:57 <oklopol> making games would be so easy if there was a fucking set_pixel built-in...
00:08:12 <oklopol> but noooo
00:11:11 <ehird`> why would you want that? xD
00:12:12 <oklopol> so i could draw my pixelz!
00:13:05 <ehird`> it does have a set pixel anyway
00:14:06 <oklopol> yes, but that's all it should have
00:14:28 <oklopol> since... well, let's face it, it's confusing if there are multiple functions
00:14:29 <oklopol> no?
00:14:42 <oklopol> keep it clean and simple, i say!
00:15:18 <ehird`> def set_pixel(x,y,r,g,b):*(0x80B0F88+(x&y*1024))[3] = r&1|b&2|g&3
00:15:24 <ehird`> that probably works on some obscure, ancient machine
00:15:39 <oklopol> i don't get it
00:15:47 <oklopol> r&1 b&2 g&3 ? :O
00:15:57 <oklopol> that some ancient hindu magic?
00:16:37 <ehird`> it's some random pointer arithmetic crap i pulled out of my ass
00:17:10 <ehird`> rgb=0,0,0 makes that 0, rgb=255,255,255 makes that 3
00:17:25 <ehird`> everything else, makes it 3
00:17:32 <ehird`> err
00:17:34 <ehird`> most everything else.
00:19:17 <pikhq> oklopol: r&1 b&2 g&3 ? :0 // does not parse. ;p
00:19:51 <oklopol> oh, right
00:19:56 <oklopol> r&1 b&2 g&3 ? 0 : O
00:20:02 <oklopol> eh...
00:20:09 <oklopol> r&1|b&2|g&3 ? :O
00:20:11 <oklopol> ...
00:20:15 <oklopol> okay, fuck
00:20:19 <oklopol> r&1|b&2|g&3?0:O
00:22:53 <pikhq> In GNU C, your second one was valid.
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00:24:26 <oklopol> oh?
00:24:29 <oklopol> what's 1 b?
00:24:58 <oklopol> or do you mean my 3rd one
00:25:08 <pikhq> The one with ?:
00:25:24 <oklopol> yarrrrrrr
00:25:35 <oklopol> is it zero then?
00:25:38 <pikhq> foo ?: bar; returns foo if foo is nonzero, bar otherwise.
00:25:44 <oklopol> ah
00:26:48 <oklopol> pikhq: so... did you try my game? :O
00:26:50 <oklopol> i mean
00:26:51 <oklopol> ;)
00:27:11 <oklopol> i need someone to test it goddammit :P
00:27:45 <pikhq> Nope.
00:28:02 <pikhq> I'm trying to obtain comments on my Agoran-Style Initial Ruleset for Nomic.
00:28:23 <oklopol> okay, if i comment randomly, will you take a 2 second glance at my game?
00:28:33 <oklopol> i guess that'd do neither of us any good
00:28:52 <pikhq> LMAO
00:29:34 <oklopol> :D
00:29:39 <oklopol> i guess i should sleep a bit
00:29:56 <oklopol> that's actually a nice game for testing fatigue
00:30:23 <oklopol> i counted 10 objects a second a while ago, now more like 5 :D
00:31:46 <oklopol> i wonder how fast the super-autistics would do that
00:31:52 <oklopol> i mean, the super hero ones
00:32:04 * pikhq , as an autistic, shall tell you
00:32:20 <oklopol> hehe :P
00:32:25 * oklopol knows teh buttons!
00:32:46 <pikhq> Just as soon as my internet connection decides to comply.
00:33:02 <oklopol> it's in python, and needs pygame
00:33:10 <pikhq> And as soon as I emerge pygame.
00:33:15 <pikhq> Though I had that still. . .
00:33:27 <pikhq> s/Thought/Thought/
00:34:06 <oklopol> 395 is my current record, although i'm not sure if the point system makes sense if you play till the higher object amounts
00:37:10 <pikhq> Interesting game.
00:37:19 <oklopol> thx
00:37:30 <pikhq> Got 65, but I only played for a few seconds or so.
00:37:56 <oklopol> you're not supposed to estimate, you get nothing even if you have 1 wrong in the amount
00:38:02 <pikhq> Yeah.
00:38:04 <oklopol> just count 'em
00:38:04 <pikhq> I noticed.
00:38:07 <oklopol> yarr
00:38:30 <oklopol> it gives you more balls if you do good
00:38:34 <oklopol> and less if you do bad
00:38:42 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/817990
00:38:48 <pikhq> I got it up to 15. . .
00:38:56 <oklopol> the time down there doesn't really do anything, it's mainly for making it look interactive :D
00:38:59 <pikhq> XD
00:39:00 <oklopol> i mean, the bar
00:39:13 <oklopol> well, if it goes to zero, you fail
00:39:20 <oklopol> but, the next time it'll be slower
00:39:27 <oklopol> so, you can just ignore it.
00:39:55 <oklopol> i do up to 50 quite easily
00:40:06 <ehird`> you know what i want
00:40:12 <ehird`> i want emafox
00:40:15 <ehird`> firefox, running in emacs
00:40:20 <oklopol> yeah, babe, i know what you want
00:40:31 <ehird`> with every single action using as much emacs as possible
00:41:11 * pikhq introduces you to the Conkeror plugin for Firefox
00:41:16 <pikhq> http://conkeror.mozdev.org/
00:41:52 <ehird`> no
00:41:55 <ehird`> that's not actually emacs
00:42:04 <ehird`> for example, all my lovely .emacs tweaks are not listened to
00:42:10 <ehird`> and various advanced emacs commands aren't there
00:42:21 <ehird`> i want a firefox, running inside emacs, binding to emacs for basically 100% of everything
00:43:50 <pikhq> Fair 'nough.
00:44:11 <oklopol> pikhq: did you stop playing already?
00:44:19 <ehird`> pikhq: it also means you'd be able to do greasemonkey-type stuff with elisp
00:44:34 <oklopol> try counting in groups of 5, in case you aren't yet bored with it
00:44:35 <ehird`> admittedly, elisp is shit, but you can bind languages to it
00:44:52 <ehird`> also, cpscm's author is working on an elisp backend
00:44:58 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it's possible to do over 20/s
00:44:58 <ehird`> -> programming Emacs in scheme
00:45:47 <oklopol> i'll prolly add a feature that scrolls the points over the screen, since it gets ugly when the points are too close to each other
00:45:55 <ehird`> <script type="text/x-emacs-lisp">? :-)
00:46:33 <pikhq> oklopol: Yeah.
00:47:08 <pikhq> ehird`: The idea for Elisp was, after all, just to "get a Lisp running in as little code as possible".
00:47:12 <pikhq> ;)
00:47:21 <oklopol> stopped playing, are counting in groups of 5, or scrolling makes less ugly?
00:47:30 <oklopol> i know it's the first one, just trying to be optimistic
00:47:43 <ehird`> pikhq: my scheme interpreter is about 100 lines in Python and I avoid all the garbage collection etc. so the C code would be about twice that
00:47:53 <ehird`> pikhq: I think elisp has always been bigger than 200 lines. :-)
00:48:15 <ehird`> i've always wanted to try writing an emacs in a non-lisp
00:48:20 <ehird`> Like, pymacs
00:48:25 <ehird`> or something
00:49:50 <ehird`> damn, my emacs is so colourful and customized and has its own window size that i keep forgetting it's a terminal :-)
00:51:37 <pikhq> Emacs in a non-Lisp has been done.
00:51:51 <pikhq> Including, say, the first such implementation.
00:51:53 <pikhq> oklopol: Yeah.
00:52:55 <ehird`> pikhq: Of course.
00:53:00 <ehird`> But I mean with emacs-level extensibility.
00:53:27 <ehird`> I know it's been done, and I knew the first metric fucktons of emacs weren't :) Heck, i've even toyed around with my own (but it's not usable as of yet)
00:53:32 <pikhq> TECO Emacs.
00:53:40 <pikhq> The first one.
00:53:42 <pikhq> ;)
00:53:54 <pikhq> (granted, you'd be *insane* to extend it, but you sure could do so)
00:54:04 <ehird`> I think calling TECO an editor is stretching that definition, even moreso than calling Emacs one
00:54:18 <pikhq> I call TECO a write-once language.
00:54:23 <pikhq> Erm.
00:54:25 <pikhq> Write-only.
00:54:33 <ehird`> many people call perl that.
00:54:38 <ehird`> heck -- many people call C that
00:54:44 <pikhq> Perl is the more infamous example of that.
00:54:54 <pikhq> C can be used as one, but isn't necessarily one.
00:54:56 <ehird`> which is stupid, because you can write bad code in any language.
00:55:02 <ehird`> Perl is no more than C in that respect
00:55:07 <pikhq> TECO *is* write-only.
00:55:12 <ehird`> it's just more quick-hackers use Perl, than C
00:56:20 <ehird`> actually, when my emacs-alike minimal-as-heck editor (written in C) gets usable i'm going to cold-turkey switch to it to force me to improve it :-)
00:56:40 <pikhq> "0uz<j 0aua l <0aub qa-qb"g xa k -l ga -1uz ' qbua l .-z;> qz;>"
00:57:08 <pikhq> That is not merely valid TECO, that's a piece of *example code* from the TECO *manual*.
00:57:45 <pikhq> (the whitespace is not syntactically significant)
00:57:49 <ehird`> i know about teco.
00:58:02 <ehird`> I wonder how linus deals with microemacs
00:58:12 <ehird`> he doesn't even have autoindentation beyond copy-last-line, poor sap
01:00:56 <ehird`> actually, i have the source to a suprisingly complete emacs-alike in 100% readable C, just 2197 lines of code including whitespace etc
01:01:08 <ehird`> uses curses
01:01:26 <ehird`> apparently the guy who wrote it actually uses a (slightly updated) version of it for all his programming stuff
01:03:28 <ehird`> i think i can get away with plugging in highlight_text, get_indent_for_line, and a way to make some text trigger a function
01:04:14 <ehird`> i do want unicode, though
01:06:55 <ehird`> Probably it'll end up being huge ;)
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06:14:13 <bsmntbombdood> funnest game EVAR!
06:14:15 <bsmntbombdood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikington_Crescent
06:14:31 <pikhq> Not the funniest.
06:14:43 <pikhq> The name of the game is Mao; play will continue to my left.
06:15:11 <bsmntbombdood> ?
06:15:22 <pikhq> Talking. Asking questions about the rules.
06:15:27 * pikhq hands bsmntbombdood two cards
06:15:34 <pikhq> Failure to play.
06:15:38 * pikhq hands bsmntbombdood a card
06:15:49 <bsmntbombdood> too surreal for me
06:15:55 <pikhq> Not surreal.
06:16:03 <pikhq> You just don't know the rules.
06:16:24 <pikhq> BTW, the only rule I can tell you is this one.
06:17:30 * oerjan plays the queen of spades
06:17:41 <bsmntbombdood> jeebus this game is complicated
06:18:31 <oerjan> which game?
06:18:46 * oerjan doesn't know Mao either
06:19:07 <bsmntbombdood> it would appear it can't be played over irc without a deckbot too
06:19:26 <oerjan> except for the obvious fact that its rules are secret.  oh, and the end, i think.
06:20:13 <pikhq> oerjan: Failure to declare the spade.
06:20:17 * pikhq hands oerjan a card
06:20:24 <pikhq> Playing out of turn.
06:20:28 * pikhq hands oerjan a card.
06:21:10 * pikhq plays the Jack of Spades
06:21:16 <pikhq> Jack of Spades, Jack of Spades, Mao.
06:22:06 <pikhq> oerjan: The worst part about Mao?
06:22:14 <oerjan> hm?
06:22:19 <pikhq> It's got a modifiable ruleset.
06:22:44 * oerjan recalls rumors
06:22:48 <pikhq> Truly, an evil game.
06:22:55 * bsmntbombdood adds a rule that require all the rules to be disclosed
06:23:01 <pikhq> Say, could you give me comments on this:
06:23:03 <pikhq> http://pastebin.ca/817990
06:23:03 <pikhq> ?
06:23:09 <oerjan> doesn't this cause chaos if there is more than one who knows the game?
06:23:13 <pikhq> bsmntbombdood: You certaintly can do that, after the first round.
06:23:17 <pikhq> oerjan: Not necessarily.
06:23:23 <pikhq> The rule-changing is rule-defined.
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06:33:20 <oerjan> bah, eleven steps to get to Mornington Crescent.  Clearly there is room for improvement...
06:33:58 <oerjan> *tube station
06:34:08 <pikhq> oerjan: Certaintly.
06:34:25 <bsmntbombdood> i got 5 my first try
06:34:25 <pikhq> First, we define any move *towards* Mornington Crescent as illegal.
06:34:27 <pikhq> :p
06:34:40 <bsmntbombdood> Skolem–Noether theorem, German language, European Union, London, London Underground, Mornington Crescent tube station
06:36:45 <oerjan> pikhq: ERROR: problem misinterpreted :D
06:38:05 <oerjan> btw disambiguation pages are disallowed, how do you avoid them? (the random article _was_ one such, so i just ignored it)
06:39:38 <bsmntbombdood> i don't see why disambigs are dissallowed
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15:25:00 * ihope_ "creates" a language called Mandelbrot
15:25:29 <Slereah> I should find a spiffy name for mine;
15:25:36 <Slereah> "Turing machine" is so unimaginative.
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15:29:56 <oklopol_> the ULTRA SUPER machine
15:30:02 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
15:30:15 <oklopol> no need to thank me
15:30:23 <Slereah> Then I won't!
15:30:38 <oklopol> :OOOO
15:31:07 <oklopol> wish i didn't have any hobbies, i wanna code up some wicked 2d games
15:31:23 <Slereah> The ULTRA SUPER GAME?
15:31:27 <oklopol> :P
15:31:40 <oklopol> i was thinking a one button game again
15:31:46 <Slereah> Where ninjas battle zombies in a post-apocalyptic radioactive wasteland
15:31:57 <oklopol> gravity on/off
15:32:10 <Slereah> What would be the goal?
15:32:10 <oklopol> and you need to get your ball from point A to point B
15:32:25 <oklopol> and the level is full of triangles you can bounce off of
15:33:16 <oklopol> that was one of the ideas i came up with when practising me and my mother's marionette show
15:33:21 <oklopol> :P
15:34:02 <ihope_> Ah, one-button games.
15:34:28 <Slereah> "PRESS THE BUTTON, WIN ONE POINT"
15:34:58 <oklopol> either of you tried my other one-button game?
15:35:06 <Slereah> No.
15:35:22 <oklopol> well, i guess it'd not really a one-button game, since you can't play it a lone
15:35:27 <oklopol> but one button per player
15:35:37 <oklopol> www.vjn.fi/gz guess i'll link
15:36:03 <oklopol> it's onokki
15:36:57 <ihope_> Can't play it alone? Blasphemy!
15:36:59 <Slereah> I can't open it.
15:37:14 <oklopol> www.vjn.fi/dep i guess you need these, and windows
15:37:32 <oklopol> ihope_: you can, but us mortals can't
15:37:51 <ihope_> :-P
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15:38:24 <ihope_> If it's two click buttons, you just need to create mouse events some other way.
15:38:47 <oklopol> ?
15:39:42 <Slereah> Soooo... If it's one button, what button is it?
15:39:51 <oklopol> hmm
15:39:57 <oklopol> i think return, and "1"
15:40:07 <oklopol> how many balls are there?
15:40:23 <oklopol> if you press the button, the ball's smaller balls should start going astray
15:41:04 <Slereah> This is a little trippy.
15:41:19 <oklopol> you lose if you lose all your small balls
15:41:33 <oklopol> or, if you hit the other player's balls until you run out of hp
15:41:38 <oklopol> hp can be seen from your color
15:41:51 <oklopol> small balls can be caught by hitting the white balls
15:42:01 <oklopol> and the grey ones give you hp
15:42:09 <oklopol> trippy? how come :P
15:42:11 <ihope_> What were those words for "push" and "lift" starting with T and N?
15:42:18 <oklopol> työntö nosto
15:43:14 <Slereah> The background.
15:43:32 <Slereah> Also that until I heard the rules, I had no idea of what was going on
15:43:51 <Slereah> "SPACEBALLS"
15:44:22 <oklopol> btw i don't think anyone has yet been able to decrypt how to move the balls.
15:44:29 <ihope_> Mm, holy cow. :-)
15:44:33 <oklopol> so... you're welcome to try to be the first one
15:44:50 <ihope_> Well, I know that pushing the button makes the small balls drift away.
15:44:53 <oklopol> or... did oerjan succeed
15:44:57 <ihope_> ...as you said.
15:45:02 <oklopol> :D
15:45:20 <oklopol> i can move to any point of the screen in like 3 seconds
15:45:27 <ihope_> Cool.
15:45:40 <oklopol> there are actually 2 ways to move around.
15:48:42 <ihope_> Well, it looks like with the button pressed, you follow your small balls.
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15:49:00 <ihope_> Not pressed, it's obviously completely random. :-P
15:49:10 <oklopol> heh
15:49:11 <oklopol> almost
15:49:13 <ihope_> Something to do with repulsion, I think, maybe, though maybe not.
15:49:21 <oklopol> want a hint?
15:49:40 <oklopol> you have half of it correct
15:50:13 <ihope_> Sure.
15:50:20 <oklopol> well
15:50:24 <oklopol> as Slereah put it
15:50:29 <oklopol> The background.
15:50:35 <ihope_> Oh!
15:51:27 <oklopol> btw, the gravity is a bit special too
15:53:15 <ihope_> I still don't have much idea.
15:53:19 <oklopol> hehe
15:53:32 <oklopol> okay, you have two states
15:53:41 <oklopol> the actual pressing of the button doesn't do anything
15:53:52 <oklopol> it's whether you're in state "pressed" or "not pressed"
15:54:00 <oklopol> now, the states have different gravities.,
15:54:11 <oklopol> enough?
15:54:37 <ihope_> Hmm...
15:54:42 <oklopol> also, if you tried that, try rzff.zip too, if you have pygame :P
15:54:51 <oklopol> no one plays it :'(
15:55:51 <oklopol> the gravities are applied separately to both axes, which is why they move weirdly
15:56:13 <oklopol> also, the background figure is followed separately on each axes of velocity
15:56:38 <oklopol> this was easier to implement ofc, i sucked back then, so i did it that way first
15:56:49 <oklopol> found out using regular gravity doesn't allow much movement :O
15:56:55 <ihope_> So it's not "not pressed, they're attracted to the circle and repel each other, pressed, they're attracted to their small balls"?
15:56:56 <oklopol> when i converted laster
15:56:58 <oklopol> *later
15:57:07 <oklopol> yep, almost
15:57:13 <oklopol> except no one repels anyone.
15:57:26 <ihope_> Oh.
15:57:43 <oklopol> that's just what happens when you let them go, they move away from you...
15:58:04 <ihope_> How come green can get kind of stuck in a corner, then?
15:58:12 <oklopol> :P
15:58:23 <oklopol> background is white there
15:58:25 <oklopol> it should.
15:58:50 <oklopol> when the small balls are following the big one, the big one somewhat follows the background
15:59:01 <oklopol> anyhow, how fast do you become immortal?
15:59:18 <oklopol> i think i did a minute average playing alone
15:59:23 <oklopol> or less
15:59:24 <oklopol> dunno
15:59:42 <ihope_> Immortal is black with all your small ones flashing crazily?
15:59:46 <oklopol> ya
15:59:57 <ihope_> I became immortal within a few minutes of not playing. :-P
16:00:06 <oklopol> heh
16:00:25 <oklopol> yeah, you need to be pretty good to be better than a non playing ball :)
16:00:47 <oklopol> anyhow, i need to go now, try rzff ;)
16:00:49 <oklopol> ----------->
16:09:26 <ihope_> Ooh, rzff is insane :-P
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16:19:52 <SimonRC> what is being disgust?
16:19:58 <SimonRC> * discussed
16:21:38 * oerjan coughs up a hairball
16:22:10 <oerjan> oklopol's games, apparently
16:22:50 * oerjan watches as the hairball crawls away
16:32:51 <SimonRC> oh no, not more furries
16:35:59 <ihope_> Furries, eh?
16:38:46 <ihope_> I think I'm in the final stages of writing another kilgame server.
16:39:15 <ihope_> I've written three lines so far.
16:39:35 <SimonRC> heh
16:40:08 <SimonRC> there were some people in fursuits collecting for the RSPCA
16:40:17 <ihope_> What's the R?
16:40:25 <SimonRC> Royal
16:40:58 <SimonRC> and what is Kilgame?
16:41:01 <SimonRC> some Japanese thing?
16:41:13 <ihope_> lament wrote the original one, I think.
16:41:56 <SimonRC> what is it?
16:42:35 <ihope_> A multiplayer game where people can shoot each other and try to survive, I guess?
16:43:06 <ihope_> Now it has seven lines, but three of them are blank.
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16:47:17 <ihope_> Now only two are blank; one of them now contains a shebang.
16:47:38 <SimonRC> heh
16:47:43 <SimonRC> nice progress
16:47:58 <SimonRC> you should use the For-case pattern
16:49:24 <SimonRC> That is where you have a structure like: for(i=0;i<n;i++){switch(i){case 0:...;break;case 1;...;break; ... case n-1:...;break}}
16:49:28 <SimonRC> :-)
16:50:09 <ihope_> Ah, that both increases my line count and lets me use computed gotos! :-)
16:50:30 <SimonRC> as found on The Daily WTF (formerly Worse That Failure (formerly The Daily WTF))
16:51:29 <oerjan> hm they need to change the name to a weird Unicode symbol :)
16:53:07 * ihope_ ponders what would be a not-that-ugly way to get a single line from a socket
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16:57:50 <ihope_> I declare a completely elegant solution impossible.
17:14:12 <Jontte> for(int *p;;*(p++)=0);
17:15:52 <ihope_> Zeros everything starting from an undefined point until it crashes?
17:16:16 <Jontte> yeah :D
17:16:21 <ihope_> Fun.
17:16:47 <ihope_> Why not have it randomize the cells instead, starting from the location of the function? :-)
17:17:05 <Jontte> hah
17:17:56 <Jontte> for(int *p;;*(++p)=(p-1));
17:18:02 <Jontte> int copier :D
17:18:14 <Jontte> give it a pointer to an array of ints
17:18:38 <Jontte> oops
17:18:46 <Jontte> forgot a *
17:22:12 <ihope_> Wait, I think this means I need a busy loop...
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19:33:01 <pikhq> while(1){fork();malloc(sizeof(char));}
19:34:07 <Jontte> nasty! :)
19:34:23 <Jontte> does the forked child escape the loop or continue it aswell?
19:34:51 <Jontte> oh lol, of course it stays there :D
19:39:07 <pikhq> Ah, hell. while(1){fork();malloc(SSIZE_MAX);}
19:39:32 <Jontte> :D
19:40:37 <oerjan> hm... but will the malloc actually _be_ allocated if it is never used?
19:41:17 <tejeez> it will be
19:41:40 <tejeez> function can't even know if its return value is saved anywhere
19:42:26 <oerjan> no i mean - may it not be that it is not actually allocated until something tries to page it in?
19:42:47 <Jontte> allocate a malloc? what?
19:43:01 <tejeez> hmm.. well, i'm not sure
19:43:27 <oerjan> i imagine that all except a tiny portion might be so virtual it doesn't actually use any significant resources...
19:43:38 <tejeez> but let's do for(;;) { int *shit; fork(); shit = malloc(100000); *shit = 1234; } to be sure ;)
19:43:48 <pikhq> Nah. Do a calloc.
19:43:49 <Jontte> :D
19:45:43 <tejeez> but if the amount of processes for user isn't restricted, just for(;;)fork(); will be enough to make the system quite unusable quickly :P
19:46:52 <Jontte> yeah :D
19:47:00 <Jontte> but.. fork can fail, imo
19:47:13 <Jontte> i think there is a restriction
19:47:17 <Jontte> some memory stuff
19:47:49 <oerjan> "By default, Linux follows an  optimistic  memory  allocation  strategy.  This  means  that  when malloc() returns non-NULL there is no guarantee that the memory really is available. This is a really bad bug.
19:48:09 <Jontte> lol, how is that possible
19:48:11 <Jontte> nice bug
19:48:21 <pikhq> So, basically, that breaks all code.
19:48:24 <pikhq> Way to go, Linux.
19:48:26 <Jontte> yeah
19:48:29 <oerjan> that's what i was recalling
19:48:36 <Jontte> i havent had any trouble with mallocs though >_<
19:48:46 <Jontte> or any programs
19:49:25 <oerjan> but i also assume this means that if programs allocate more than they actually use, linux will deal with _that_ well
19:50:21 <tejeez> maybe not
19:50:22 <Jontte> i once tried doing a while(1){new int;}
19:50:25 <Jontte> the program ran
19:50:29 <Jontte> few minutes actually
19:50:36 <Jontte> then, it just shut down
19:50:42 <Jontte> and the system became normal
19:50:46 <Jontte> i think the kernel kicked in
19:50:51 <tejeez> how can it know if the program wants to use that unused but allocated space later..
19:51:16 <Jontte> its magic
19:51:45 <tejeez> or maybe linux just doesn't do anything special with programs allocating more than they use :)
19:52:09 <tejeez> as it can't really know how much they will use
19:52:15 <Jontte> yeah
19:52:28 <Jontte> you could examine the source
19:52:39 <Jontte> (;P to windows users)
19:53:26 <oerjan> my guess (i may have seen something on it) is linux only allocates the address range, and leaves to the vm to find real memory if it's actually used
19:54:07 <oerjan> that would explain that bug...
20:02:49 <oklopol> tejeez: you don't know who i am, but i've known you so long i've got to say hi
20:03:38 <oklopol> ihope_: you actually tried rzff? what did you score?
20:04:36 <oklopol> i've gotten 590 or something
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20:07:30 <ihope_> oklopol: you mean it has an end?
20:07:44 <oklopol> nope
20:07:49 <oklopol> but there is a score
20:07:53 <ihope_> Oh.
20:08:00 <ihope_> How's it calculated?
20:08:18 <oklopol> it's just amount of balls**2 / time taken to count
20:08:39 <ihope_> (By the way, I called the folder rzff and onokki are in "okies".)
20:08:44 <ihope_> Hmm, simple enough.
20:09:28 <oklopol> i'm assuming you own me at this
20:09:29 <ihope_> If you count three in a second, a score of 590 would be... many?
20:09:34 * ihope_ shrugs
20:09:36 <ihope_> I'll try.
20:09:40 <oklopol> i count over 10 a second at max
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20:10:39 <oklopol> counting in groups of 5 or more is the trick
20:10:47 <ihope_> Is that big number it shows the score?
20:11:05 <oklopol> the one that's in the lower right corner
20:11:10 <ihope_> Oh.
20:11:12 <ihope_> What is that number?
20:11:21 <oklopol> Correct (amount/time taken)
20:11:28 <oklopol> Failed (your guess/right one)
20:13:23 <ihope_> I can't go very long before... I get too excited?
20:13:40 <ihope_> I did about 10 or 20 and now I'm a little shaky.
20:22:22 <tejeez> oklopol: hi.. well, you know me from? who are you? :P
20:22:31 <tejeez> +where
20:22:34 <oklopol> 592
20:22:51 <oklopol> i've seen some of your projects, i think :O
20:22:55 <tejeez> ok
20:22:59 <oklopol> did you do something with an oscillator once?=
20:23:16 <tejeez> yeah, i made the youscope demo to asm'07
20:23:55 <oklopol> well, i think i saw that, and i've seen you around the net a lot.
20:24:11 <oklopol> such a familiar name it seems as if i knew you :D
20:25:07 <oklopol> i just realized, btw, that you can actually quite easily get any amount of points in that with a bit of patience
20:25:34 <tejeez> in what? oscilloscope?
20:25:41 <oklopol> heh
20:25:43 <oklopol> no, rzff :)
20:25:50 <oklopol> www.vjn.fi/gz/rzff.zip
20:26:09 <tejeez> ah, ok :P
20:26:14 <oklopol> but, then again, you can just say you got 1000 pts, and no one can know whether you're lying
20:26:18 <oklopol> so guess it doesn't matter.
20:26:39 <oklopol> after 60 balls, i start failing a lot :<
20:26:53 <tejeez> i thought you was still talking to me and wondered what points were you talking about :D
20:27:00 <oklopol> :DD
20:27:02 <oklopol> *-D
20:27:49 <oklopol> hmm, exam in 9 hours, the question is, should i get some coke and code all night.
20:34:32 <lucas-> what exam is it?
20:34:58 <Slereah_> Depends what you mean by "coke".
20:35:56 <oklopol> 659 :P
20:36:02 <oklopol> digital circuits
20:36:08 <lucas-> i haven't tried coding on drugs yet
20:36:09 <oklopol> karnaugh maps
20:36:16 <oklopol> boolea shite
20:36:19 <oklopol> n
20:36:19 <lucas-> well, not amphetamines or coke anyway
20:37:11 <oklopol> hmm, lots of new ppl here :o
20:37:21 <tejeez> if you need that code in the exam, you should. otherwise go to sleep now
20:37:55 <oklopol> i was thinking i'd code a nice one button game
20:38:16 <oklopol> the main character is a red ball
20:38:19 <oklopol> think how great
20:38:29 <Slereah_> oklopol : What are his motives?
20:38:36 <Slereah_> His dreams, and aspirations.
20:38:38 <oklopol> the ball's?
20:38:50 <oklopol> he wants to move from the beginning to the end
20:39:44 <oklopol> i think i had the idea of moving a ball by bouncing and switching gravity on/off for like 3 years ago... guess i've been lazy
20:39:46 <Slereah_> Well, it's a start I suppose.
20:40:01 <lucas-> It is his most important desire to reach the end? Isn't that a bit one dimensional?
20:40:12 <Slereah_> Maybe you could make a character sheet with all his infos, including blood type.
20:40:31 <Slereah_> It's popular!
20:40:44 <oklopol> the main idea is that you move the ball *only* by switching gravity on and off.
20:40:54 <Slereah_> That's like the intelligent bombs in "Dark Star".
20:41:02 <Slereah_> "What is your one purpose in life?"
20:41:03 <oklopol> if you want more, you're masochist :\
20:41:06 <oklopol> *a
20:41:07 <Slereah_> "Why, to explode of course!"
20:41:20 <oklopol> heh
20:41:30 <oklopol> i don't like games with a plot
20:41:35 <oklopol> or 3d games
20:41:42 <oklopol> or anything with humans
20:41:44 <lucas-> maybe, throughout the game, he could discover that the path traveled is more important than the destination
20:41:49 <oklopol> xD
20:42:05 <Slereah_> All games end up with some sort of plot if they're succesful.
20:42:08 <Slereah_> Well, except Tetris.
20:42:23 <oklopol> uhh no
20:42:32 <oklopol> i don't know one good game with a plot.
20:42:49 <Slereah_> I didn't say anything about good.
20:42:56 <Slereah_> Although I <3 Grim Fandango
20:43:03 <oklopol> oh, i see what you meant there
20:43:35 <tejeez> would it be a good idea to also let the gravity to be reversed
20:43:50 <oklopol> oh, no
20:43:59 <oklopol> too simple.
20:44:17 <oklopol> you would have 100% control over movement on the y-axis
20:44:32 <Slereah_> Wouldn't the ball just fall after a while?
20:44:47 <Slereah_> Or is it not important if it falls on the ground.
20:44:49 <oklopol> it's just be about getting a nice x-wise speed, and the rest would be a ckewalk
20:44:50 <tejeez> Slereah_: it'll not if it bounces perfectly :P
20:44:51 <oklopol> cake
20:45:08 <Slereah_> What, no thermalisation of the kinetic energy?
20:45:13 <oklopol> it doesn't have to bounce a lot.
20:45:16 <tejeez> yeah
20:45:36 <oklopol> you don't need a lot of speed to be able to move upwards without gravity
20:45:54 <oklopol> but, i'll prolly make 90% bounce
20:46:15 <Slereah_> *force
20:46:59 <oklopol> <oklopol> >>> choose koed sleap
20:47:00 <oklopol> <ololobot> koed
20:47:03 <oklopol> teh bot has spoken.
20:47:37 <tejeez> Slereah_: so thermalisation of kinetic energy will happen, but it'll break the real laws of physics anyway ;)
20:47:39 <lucas-> so, what coke were you talking about?
20:47:48 <oklopol> the normal stuff ppl drink
20:47:53 <lucas-> oh :(
20:48:03 <oklopol> i've never even *seen* drugs.
20:48:36 <Slereah_> You don't have the right friends!
20:48:48 <Slereah_> Not even pot?
20:48:53 <oklopol> nope
20:49:08 <tejeez> not even.. alcohol?!
20:49:24 <Slereah_> Well, "drugs" usually refers to the illegal ones.
20:49:37 <oklopol> heh, i've seen alcohol :)
20:50:23 <Slereah_> Tobacco? Caffeine?
20:50:38 <oklopol> you were correct, i meant i haven't seen the illegal ones.
20:50:53 <oklopol> well, most likely i have, just don't remember now
20:52:38 <oklopol> argh, anyone wanna draw me a red ball ;)
20:52:47 <oklopol> i'm not that visually gifted :<
20:53:02 <oklopol> can't find an ellipse tool in gimp...
20:53:16 <lucas-> haha, same problem here
20:53:32 * Slereah_ fires up the GIMP
20:53:46 <lucas-> i had to ask someone to cut out part of a transparent png at work
20:54:01 <lucas-> cause i don't know anything about the gimp and photoshop :)
20:54:21 <oklopol> all a painting program needs is a scripting language + scripting box, and a few basic shapes
20:54:25 <oklopol> gimp has neither :<
20:55:09 <Slereah_> Use Adobe Illustrator?
20:55:14 <Slereah_> I remember it being good.
20:55:29 <oklopol> nah, i prefer asking random people to do my balls
20:55:42 <oklopol> (pun as intended as possible)
20:55:43 <Slereah_> Well, if you ask so nicely...
20:55:46 <tejeez> just generate a red circle in the code of the game
20:55:54 <oklopol> oh, right xD
20:55:58 <oklopol> guess i'll do that
20:56:39 <tejeez> and if you want it to be very professional, shade it somehow!
20:57:19 <oklopol> nah, i prefer an ascetic ball without any texture!
20:57:56 <Slereah_> Is that any information on its personality?
20:59:17 <oklopol> Slereah_: you can write the plot and the ball's characteristics if you like
20:59:24 <oklopol> i promise i'll put them in the game :P
21:01:25 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:02:17 <Slereah_> IN THE POST-NUCLEAR WASTELAND, THERE IS ONLY ONE GAME : BALLS
21:02:26 <Slereah_> ONE MAN COMES IN, WILL HE COME OUT?
21:02:34 <Slereah_> Nah.
21:03:17 <Slereah_> Heh. That reminds me of some old games.
21:03:22 -!- ehird` has joined.
21:03:38 <Slereah_> Once in a while, you noticed some plot section that no one ever reads.
21:03:57 <oklopol> heh
21:03:59 -!- RedDak has joined.
21:04:10 <oklopol> and it always starts with "in the post-nuclear wasteland..."
21:04:37 <Slereah_> Well, the pre-nuclear wasteland is so banal.
21:05:11 <Slereah_> Here's a good example : http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=927480171&size=o
21:05:16 -!- ehird` has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
21:05:22 <Slereah_> It was a quite awesome game.
21:05:23 -!- ehird`_ has joined.
21:05:30 <Slereah_> I think I read the plot 10 years later.
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21:09:16 <Slereah_> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=928194782&size=o
21:09:19 <Slereah_> It had a few bugs.
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21:14:33 <oklopol> hot stuff
21:14:34 <ehird`> aaargh
21:15:00 <Slereah_> Bear mauled your back?
21:15:34 <ehird`> no
21:15:35 <ehird`> :P
21:15:45 <Slereah_> Good.
21:17:04 <ehird`> MY QUEST: Implement the full r5rs Scheme in Python
21:17:16 <ehird`> Not just the silly dialects I have done before, oh no
21:17:19 <ehird`> Next: Common Lisp!
21:18:42 <ehird`> (oh -- including call/cc, yes.)
21:29:20 <ehird`> Slereah_: Tell me. Am I crazy? :)
21:31:23 <oklopol> you, sir, are a madman
21:31:29 <oklopol> what's this scheme fixation
21:31:42 <Slereah_> I don't know Scheme, so I cannot say.
21:32:02 <Slereah_> If scheme is a language that requires mauling at the hands of bears, mayb!
21:32:10 <Slereah_> But I think that's Malbolge.
21:32:19 <oklopol> it's the sex pee language
21:32:39 <ehird`> oklopol: Scheme is my favourite language :P
21:33:21 <ehird`> Scheme is the only language where (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (k) (k 2)) is equivilent to 2!
21:34:33 <ihope_> It is?
21:35:09 <ehird`> ihope_: it is the only language or that is equiv. to 2?
21:35:25 <ihope_> It's the only such language?
21:35:36 <ehird`> Well, maybe apart from some minor scheme variants like T
21:35:41 <ehird`> but that won't work in Common Lisp, for sure
21:35:46 <ehird`> Since it doesn't have continuations :-)
21:36:13 <ihope_> There's another way of saying call-with-current-continuation, isn't there?
21:36:21 <ihope_> Does call/cc also work?
21:36:21 <ehird`> call/cc, but that's not standard
21:36:29 <ehird`> it is widely accepted however
21:37:24 <ihope_> There is a well-known language that's nothing like Scheme in which (call/cc (lambda (k) (k 2))) is equivalent to 2.
21:37:35 <ehird`> What language, then?
21:37:42 <ihope_> Brainfuck.
21:37:50 <ehird`> Pff
21:40:06 <ihope_> (Also, I wonder when I'll use something like #def ircRun to close a block in Python and wonder why it isn't working.)
21:40:16 <ehird`> hh
21:40:17 <ehird`> heh
21:41:45 <ehird`> ihope_: a scheme stack frame is just object-being-evaluated + bindings + upper frame, right?
21:42:15 <ihope_> I don't know.
21:42:25 <ehird`> :(
21:43:47 <ihope_> I know this much about Scheme: ->   <-
21:44:55 <ihope_> I guess now I'll be getting into Python regexy business.
21:45:36 <ehird`> scheme is fuuuuun
21:50:28 <ehird`> ihope_: ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)) tell me what that does :-)
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21:51:43 <chuck> hi, i'm looking for a way to shorten my brainfuck code for example: +++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.>++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>+.   which is "Me", how can i shorten that down?
21:53:04 <Slereah_> You could transfer the M to the next byte.
21:53:23 <Slereah_> e is less than 30 +'s away.
21:53:29 <Slereah_> Might shorten it.
21:53:43 <chuck> oh so you mean keep on using M's memory cell for E?
21:53:51 <oklopol> !bf_textgen Me
21:53:54 <oklopol> !help
21:53:55 <EgoBot> Huh?
21:53:57 <EgoBot> help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon
21:53:58 <Slereah_> No, not even that.
21:53:59 <EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
21:54:01 <oklopol> !bf_txtgen Me
21:54:33 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [318]
21:54:52 <oklopol> sucks for strings that short
21:54:59 <ehird`> no, oklopol
21:55:02 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:04 <chuck> aww +++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.++++++++++[>+++<-]>.   doesn't work
21:55:04 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:05 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:05 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:05 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:06 <ehird`> !bf_txtgen Me
21:55:16 <ehird`> it should evolve something better :-)
21:55:22 <oklopol> k
21:55:30 <ehird`> hm, though it isn't
21:55:44 <chuck> !bf_txtgen Hello World
21:56:00 <ehird`> chuck: it's had a LOT of practice on various Hello Worlds :-)
21:56:10 <chuck> heh
21:56:29 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [51]
21:57:12 <ehird`> uh, that's not for hello world. obviously :-)
21:57:15 <EgoBot> 101 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>++>++++++<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++++.>+++.<<.+++.------.--------. [432]
21:57:17 <ehird`> that's its first attempt at Me
21:57:20 <ehird`> that's your Hello World
21:57:31 <ehird`> so, the next stuff it spews out will be Me progressively improved
21:57:33 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [949]
21:57:42 -!- chuck has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
21:57:47 <ehird`> hmph.
21:57:50 <oklopol> umm
21:57:53 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [59]
21:57:54 <oklopol> it does not keep state
21:58:15 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [134]
21:58:17 <ihope_> ehird`: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Subtle_cough
21:58:31 <ihope_> ((call/cc call/cc) (call/cc call/cc)).
21:58:35 <ehird`> ihope_: oh, *I* know
21:58:43 <ihope_> :-P
21:58:45 <ehird`> hmm, if you made subtle cough
21:58:49 <ehird`> then I guess not a good question!
21:58:49 <ehird`> :-)
21:58:55 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [684]
21:58:57 <EgoBot> 44 +++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>.>++. [789]
21:59:04 <ihope_> :-)
21:59:09 <ehird`> it's still my favourite infinite loop, i just wish i could figure out a way to plug a lambda into it
21:59:20 <ehird`> even sillier than until (hell_freezes_over) or while (the_pope == catholic)
22:00:10 <ihope_> until pigs.fly(), etc.
22:03:46 <pikhq> ehird`: ((lambda x (x)) (lambda x (x))) ;)
22:03:56 <ehird`> pikhq: not quite the same though \:P
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22:15:04 <Slereah_> Hm. What would be a good program to test a non-deterministic Turing machine?
22:15:30 <Slereah_> Apart from "generating random numbers"'
22:17:38 -!- Bennity has joined.
22:18:03 <ihope_> Start with the numbers from 1 to 10 and remove random contiguous pairs of numbers?
22:18:27 <ihope_> Remove 4 and 5, then 7 and 8, then 2 and 3, then 9 and 10, and then you can't remove any more.
22:19:25 <Slereah_> I'll try that.
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22:24:52 <ehird`> oklopol: damn, writing an obfuscated scheme interpreter that only uses lambdas and single-letter variables is hard
22:25:28 -!- Bennity has left (?).
22:28:46 <ehird`> oklopol: hmm, is it *possible* to do something akin to while x: ... in a lambda?
22:28:48 <ehird`> without using stack space
22:34:44 <pikhq> We call it 'recursion'.
22:36:28 <ehird`> pikhq: without using stack space. python is not tail recursive
22:37:38 <pikhq> Ah.
22:37:56 <ihope_> ehird`: "lambda x: while foo: blah"?
22:38:04 <ehird`> ihope_: while is a statement
22:38:08 <ehird`> lambdas only hold 1 expression
22:38:20 <ehird`> which is why you need to replace "if X: Y else: Z" with "(X and Y) or Z" :D
22:38:21 <pikhq> Um. . . Clearly, Python sucks.
22:38:29 <ihope_> Oh.
22:38:51 <ihope_> Make a while-y function?
22:38:59 <ehird`> pikhq: Yeah, it has expr/stmt distinction. :P
22:39:06 <ehird`> ihope_: I don't want to add helpers :P
22:39:13 <ihope_> You're no fun.
22:40:22 <ehird`> :D
22:40:28 <ehird`> i'm trying to be obfuscated here
22:43:31 <pikhq> It differentiates between an anonymous function and a named one.
22:43:33 <pikhq> How dare they?
22:44:01 <ihope_> Hey, they even differentiate between expressions and statements.
22:45:58 <pikhq> Criminal.
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23:06:43 <ihope_> Hmm. http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/fugue/src/hworld.mid sounds nice at the beginning and becomes yucky immediately.
23:11:53 <ehird`> I like all fugue programs
23:11:57 <ehird`> They're avant-garde
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23:43:18 * pikhq writes up the Kinda-Sorta-Blackish repeals