00:50:56 -!- ehird` has changed nick to ehirdsleep. 00:51:48 Gregor, you bastard. :p 01:49:14 i agree 01:53:00 Hello people. 01:53:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:54:46 Hi all bye all. 02:02:40 ``m``s``bs``b`s``c``b``c`t`k0ki#``c``bc``c``bc``b`ci`k.xri``c``bb``sii``b``c``bc``b`bc``c``bc``b`bb``cb``b`bttkii``sb``sbi 02:02:44 Poifect. 02:02:55 Maybe now, 99 bottles of beer! 02:03:21 Maybe, MAYBE, I'll start working on PSOX again tomorrow 02:03:26 Anyone have any comments about PSOX? 02:03:41 Not much, not much 02:16:51 Make it work. 02:16:55 ;p 02:17:15 (then I can make my Macro Language to End All Macro Languages working. :p) 02:18:49 * pikhq thinks: language which is moderately full-featured, supporting PSOX: crazy? :p 02:19:50 Lessee here. . . lnum foo=2, anyone? 02:22:04 foo=2? 02:22:06 oh 02:22:15 A typesystem. 02:22:16 ;) 02:22:34 "foo+=2" would also work, thanks to types. ;p 02:22:46 Would this language support the REGEX type? 02:22:59 That would be tricky. 02:23:39 Particularly since I'm thinking of managing operator overloading to handle the types. 02:23:49 (without classes. Just macros. I'm insane. ;)) 02:25:29 :D 02:26:59 Perhaps "new_type lnum;macro lnum_+(x, y){psox_call(ADD_LNUM, x, y);}" etc. 02:31:37 so you're making a hardcore version of BFM? 02:31:48 s/BFM/PEBBLE/ 02:31:55 The name change happened ages ago, people! :p 02:32:59 Sgeo: You know what would be *truly* insane? A way of calling C functions from PSOX. 02:33:16 pikhq, go write a Domain for it, if you wantr 02:33:18 *want 03:02:35 hey guys, i just made a BF interpreter in about 5 minutes 03:02:39 with python 03:03:07 That's because Python is awesome. 03:11:15 and brainfuck is minimalistic 03:11:23 Also that. 03:11:53 And because you have been crippled by your lack of malloc. 03:12:34 o 03:16:20 i think i've written one in less than 3 minutes, but i just wrote the same program and took time :-) 03:16:39 * oklopol has weird hobbies 03:18:26 If you're here, obviously 03:26:54 heh 03:27:03 here, i'll pastebin it 03:29:33 http://rafb.net/p/bXlg4855.html 03:30:48 Is += the bs = bs + stuff? 03:38:28 GreaseMonkey: bs.append(i) is faster than bs+=[i] 03:39:10 Oh, that's that. 03:39:12 python will actually do bs = bs + [i], baking a list of i, then concatenating the two lists baking a third list 03:40:44 oh, also bs.pop() for bs=bs[:-1] 03:41:00 * oklopol thinks that's a Very Crappy System 03:41:38 -!- oklopol has quit ("for the need to encumber"). 03:41:52 well, it works. 03:41:58 and i will take note of that. 03:42:24 -!- oklopol has joined. 03:42:34 how do i always manage to do that... 03:43:25 did i miss something? 03:43:30 [04:41] well, it works. 03:43:31 [04:41] and i will take note of that. 03:43:41 i see 03:44:00 btw, what's better: 03:44:05 inp = inp[1:] 03:44:09 inp[:1] = '' 03:44:11 or what? 03:44:25 hmm 03:44:26 You can't change part of a string. 03:44:28 del inp[0] 03:44:32 oh 03:44:34 it's a string. 03:44:41 then the first one is the only possibility 03:44:45 ok. 03:45:05 if you do that lots, you can do inp=list(inpt) 03:45:09 *inp 03:45:13 and then del inp[0] 03:45:59 * oklopol thinks that's a crappy system too 03:46:19 dunno... python just lacks beauty... 03:46:32 unlike GRAPHICA, HAVE I MENTIONED GRAPHICA 03:46:36 ... 03:46:40 MAYBE A LITTLE 03:46:43 :) 03:46:58 i had some totally awesome ideas for it 03:47:10 and here i am, idling and wondering why i'm not coding it. 03:47:19 i'll get something to drink, and then code something 03:47:20 -> 03:56:49 drinking?!! 03:58:37 -!- Slereah- has quit. 04:04:54 -!- Untitled-13615D has joined. 04:06:39 Anyone knows how to disable the automatic windows update? 04:06:49 I can't stand it rebooting my computer behind my back. 04:06:53 -!- Untitled-13615D has changed nick to Slereah. 04:07:15 no one knows :\ 04:08:00 I don't know how many data I've lost because of it. 04:15:34 -!- lament has joined. 04:15:41 I have returned to rule over your channel once again! 04:15:56 Pray for mercy, and you might be spared! 04:16:13 Or else! 04:16:14 But probably not. 04:26:05 OMFG 04:30:09 Aw hell. Now the lazy evaluation is playing tricks on me for the input! 04:30:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:30:42 I'll have to find a way to turn it the right way 04:32:07 everybody knows lazy evaluation and i/o are incompatible :) 04:32:41 everybody knows kung fu fighting 04:36:24 lament : Lies! 04:36:58 I just have to make some lambda expression for the input to be evaluated first, then placed at the end. 04:37:47 Probably just ^ab`ba 04:38:10 Although it would have to be evaluated after. 04:38:12 Damn. 04:38:17 What to do. 04:38:52 I really don't want to make an anti-d combinator. 05:30:54 -!- calamari has joined. 06:05:22 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:07:28 -!- immibis has joined. 06:50:36 -!- immibis has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Man who run behind car get exhauste). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:50:23 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. Man who run behind car get exhauste). 08:55:17 Slereah, Anyone knows how to disable the automatic windows update? <-- sure, 1) change to linux 08:56:13 and 2) somewhere under "my computer" -> right click -> properties -> somewhere 08:56:17 if I remember correctly 08:56:19 in xp 08:56:27 * AnMaster haven't used windows for years 08:59:52 I can't install Linux. 08:59:54 I tried! 09:00:02 I'm just not that computer savvy. 09:06:41 I found the Ubuntu installation at least an order of magnitude easier than the XP installation. 09:07:20 But immediately after confirming the Ubuntu was that easy, I installed Gentoo by hand, so I might not be the right demographic. 09:07:37 Problem is, I want both on my computers. 09:08:13 For instance, to run most commercially released softwares! 09:09:15 I've never met anyone who used more than a tiny fraction of commercially released software. 09:12:55 Well, one would be enough. 09:20:32 Which? 09:21:45 No idea, since I can't install it! 09:23:17 How did you try to install it? 09:23:26 Using a Kubuntu CD. 09:23:49 Did you try the guide? 09:24:11 No. 09:24:13 Didn't saw it. 09:24:55 After I installed it, I couldn't run either Windows or Linux. 09:24:59 So I'm a little shy now. 10:08:25 -!- jix has joined. 10:24:04 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 11:09:35 -!- johnl has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:13:54 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:14:01 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:17:26 -!- Tritonio__ has quit ("Bye..."). 12:42:08 -!- Visitor-CD3F3 has joined. 12:52:51 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:05:38 -!- timotiis has joined. 13:49:28 -!- jix has joined. 15:25:44 -!- Visitor-CD3F3 has changed nick to Slereah. 15:28:49 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 15:30:07 -!- jix has joined. 15:42:16 -!- ehirdsleep has changed nick to ehird`. 15:43:33 i have some kind of obsession with writing scheme interpreters... 15:43:37 i'm writing one in javascript, now 15:47:26 some fishes and some noodles, trallalalalaa 15:53:45 lah da da dah? 15:55:47 game of life is turing complete right+ 15:55:58 s/+/?/ 15:56:30 yep 15:56:35 yay, 15:56:37 there's a turing machine in it 15:56:40 see: Golly distribution 15:56:47 but, don't even *bother*, kind of thing 15:57:04 you can do it but many civilizations will pass before you get anything useful to happen 15:57:14 beyond counting in hexadecimal which there is a working Life file for. 15:57:42 I have made some insane stuff now. while not turing complete (because of too slow and limited size) I implemented game of life inside a single player rpg, using "floor tiles" in it and some scripting in it's special language 15:57:56 heh 15:58:03 did that last week when my PC was broken and I had to use my old (from around 1997) mac 15:58:04 speed hsa nothing to do with turing completeness :) 15:58:06 size does, though 15:58:19 sadly the game engine is some shareware thing 15:58:37 -!- Jontte has joined. 15:58:48 AnMaster: you wrote brainfuck in bash: now do scheme 15:58:49 ehird`, yes, indeed, an "area" in that game engine is limited to at most 64x64 tiles, so... 15:58:59 ehird`, I don't have time currently 15:59:04 aww 15:59:05 :( 15:59:51 oh btw that game engine, had weird scripting language, for example if you nested a loop, all variables from the outer loop got unset, so what I did was use some if to reset variable at end of loop if reaching edge of board and such 15:59:52 heh 16:00:01 lmao 16:00:11 nesting loop idiocy reminds me of BestFriends.js 16:00:15 huh? 16:00:17 the wiki page helpfully says: 16:00:24 Note: YOU CANNOT use nested loops in BestFriends.js 16:00:25 "BestFriends"? 16:00:26 (on the esolang wiki) 16:00:37 AnMaster: a pseudo-brainfuck thing in javascript. 16:00:37 BF 16:00:37 BrainFuck 16:00:39 BestFriends 16:00:46 the wiki page is HILARIOUS 16:00:52 well, it isn't brainfuck if it can't handle nested loops 16:00:55 anyway link? 16:00:59 http://esolangs.org/wiki/BestFriends.js 16:01:14 ehird`: what i said had nothing to do with anything 16:01:30 New enterprise features like 2d! But you CANNOT use nested loops, sorry. Also, the input command doesn't work in v32.34 16:01:36 We are working on this difficult problem! 16:02:04 lol? 16:02:07 it is turing complete though :| 16:02:14 because you can run JS' eval() 16:02:27 AnMaster: from: "Puts the first character of the input string in the current memory cell. As of the first version, this command does not work. The problem is being looked at carefully." 16:02:40 heh yeah 16:03:07 i bet they just do: 16:03:14 str.slice(pos,-1).index("]") 16:03:16 to match loops 16:03:33 "Turns the program pointer 90 degrees left (anticlockwise)."? 16:03:34 bestfriends owns :) 16:03:43 http://www.thegriddle.net/BestFriends/BestFriends.js oh jeez 16:03:52 they use a global var pointing to the start of the loop XD 16:04:05 hahah 16:04:12 use a stack! 16:04:23 -!- faxlore has joined. 16:04:23 '*** Each row should be the same length. See the sample below for an example of how it's used. 16:04:23 ' 16:04:26 the example is off by one char 16:04:31 one of the lines is one char longer than the other 16:04:32 :D 16:04:38 * AnMaster ponders some semi-object orientation in bash 16:05:20 AnMaster: trivial 16:05:29 indeed, if you use eval 16:05:32 you have arrays, so just store the data as an array 16:05:35 but is it possible without eval? 16:05:37 hm... 16:05:55 how do you do dispatch? 16:06:02 subclassing .. ? 16:06:10 I said "semi-object" :P 16:06:15 actually I don't think I want to know :P 16:06:31 but as bash is turing complete it SHOULD be possible 16:06:44 you write a bash++ interpreter coded in bash! :D 16:06:50 * AnMaster runs 16:07:10 something like: 16:07:15 obj = array 16:07:17 well 16:07:19 obj = array of entries 16:07:27 entry = array with [0] = method or prop 16:07:35 hm 16:07:45 array can't have strings as indexes 16:07:49 class = array of keys, where if class[i] = key, obj[i] = value bound to key 16:07:52 AnMaster: see that 16:08:21 so I'd have to use my libhash (that doesn't do hashes really, just associative arrays) 16:09:01 using variable names like hsh_myhash_fe1482b9afd 16:09:02 ;D 16:09:09 iirc 16:09:12 please see what i said 16:09:20 * AnMaster reads 16:09:26 ah 16:09:27 good idea 16:09:38 ehird`, however, lookup speed would be terrible 16:09:51 correction: speed would be terrible 16:09:52 that's a given 16:10:03 The Little Schemer's environments does something similar, btw 16:10:05 with two lists. 16:10:14 "little schemer"? 16:10:30 * AnMaster points to his irc bot in bash at envbot.org, got decent speed 16:10:31 the best book about recursion 16:10:37 it teaches you to think recursively 16:10:51 * AnMaster shudders 16:10:58 it usess Scheme as its language but that's not the point, you can easily go through it without a scheme system 16:11:01 and many do 16:11:04 it's well worth a read 16:11:06 ehird`, I'm thinking about the big O all the time ;P 16:11:09 up there with SICP 16:11:10 Why shudder? 16:11:22 faxlore: he's an imperative weenie? 16:11:23 :P 16:11:24 well for a functional language it makes sense 16:11:27 haha 16:11:37 and when I use lisp I do use recursion 16:11:48 I try to avoid it otherwise 16:12:05 the question, anmaster, is - why do you use an inferior language which doesn't support such expressive coding of algorithms? 16:12:12 well you should avoid recursion in C when you want TCO 16:12:17 because of your biases against lisp that you've got from other people, I bet. 16:12:18 otherwise.. use a real language? 16:12:19 heh 16:12:27 (real languages do TCO) 16:12:31 ehird`, hm? 16:12:33 faxlore: well yeah, if you're using C then the only thiing you should be doing is writing an interpreter or something ;) 16:12:39 I do use lisp a lot, I'm an emacs user 16:12:45 so elisp 16:13:03 elisp is not lisp. 16:13:07 :| 16:13:07 http://envbot.org/trac/browser/anmaster-trunk/lib/hash.sh <-- not nice code, but works 16:13:23 ehird`, hm? what is the difference, they certainly have a lot in common 16:13:43 A lot of paranthesis ":D 16:13:45 AnMaster: elisp is a hacky, horribly-designed and implemented language that happens to have a lot of parentheses 16:13:53 * faxlore lol 16:13:56 faxlore: stfu let me take that metaphor :P 16:13:56 hah 16:14:04 great minds ehird! 16:14:28 faxlore: great minds! ... and sheep 16:14:30 :) 16:31:37 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:36:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:37:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 16:39:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:41:38 i think R5RS scheme was designed by people who hate implementors 16:41:47 Hahaha 16:42:08 I like this new approach to language design 16:42:22 'how can we make a language that looks so elegant and simple PURE LIQUID DEATH to implement?' 16:42:38 'mwahahaha! now all implementors will commit suicide and we shall RULE THE WORLD!' 16:44:34 however, i still implement it anyway 16:44:35 oh well. 16:44:47 anyone have a favourite language they want a scheme in? :P 16:45:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 16:46:05 Malbolge :) 16:46:28 given that someone already made a scheme in unlambda... 16:47:49 hahaha. no :( 16:49:17 is there one in brainfuck btw? 16:49:51 that sounds painful :[ 16:50:06 nowhere near as painful as in Malbolge, i trust 16:51:34 and no there isn't 16:52:09 because fitting that stuff into a tape-heap thing is PAINFUL 16:52:10 :-) 16:54:10 maybe make a scheme -> bf, then a scheme in scheme ... and 16:54:11 scheme in unlambda? fully compliant to the spec? 16:55:09 faxlore: scm->bf is the hard bit 16:55:11 oklopol: obviously not 16:55:19 oklopol: although it might have continuations, i mean that's not vey hard with c 16:55:20 ;) 16:55:20 obviously? 16:55:33 r5rs is small but not trivial 16:55:45 it is Liquid Flaming Death to implement 100%, even in C or whatever 16:55:52 but a small subset is easy 16:56:41 indeed, it would be hard to do it in unlambda, i just don't think it's *obvious* it's not full r5rs 16:57:23 have you ever read r5rs 16:57:29 implementing that in unlambda is just silly.. 16:57:42 yeah i've read it 16:57:47 how is it silly? 16:57:47 and there's no point i mean once you have the basic scheme its just tedious function after function after that. 16:58:09 oklopol: it would need vectors 16:58:16 do you think it would have VECTORS? 16:58:16 in unlambda? 16:58:18 i think the scheme-alike in question has no mutable data, like unlambda 16:58:21 umm.... 16:58:31 vectors can be lists.. 16:58:35 oklopol: nope 16:58:38 no? 16:58:40 oklopol: lookup time has to be O(1) 16:58:46 you acn't have that with a linked list 16:58:46 oh, it specifies that? 16:58:47 have a nice day! 16:58:57 i must have not payed attention 16:59:00 iirc yes 16:59:14 i recall "vectors are usually faster in lookups" 16:59:17 but i'll check 16:59:51 specifying ordos is interesting because it actually may disallow implementation in many languages 17:00:43 but anyway 17:00:50 obviously a toy unlambda impl won't do all scheme 17:01:00 because it's pretty redundant, you don't get extra cool points beyond call/cc 17:01:56 oerjan: link? 17:02:31 hm question 17:02:38 is there any native-code INTERCAL compiler? 17:02:41 preferably optimizing :D 17:02:50 yeah, doesn't specify access time of course 17:03:35 i don't recall 17:03:38 pretty redundant? it'd be awesome to make a full scheme in unlambda 17:03:45 oklopol: no, it wouldn't 17:03:57 sure would. 17:04:12 someone tell oklopol he's wrong 17:05:23 matter of opinion 17:06:37 and i'm not wrong, why not do it good if you're gonna do it 17:07:21 basically, once you add mutable structures you have to pass a simulated heap... 17:07:55 :-) 17:09:32 any other language suggestions for a scheme? ;) 17:09:37 if there's no mutable structures, i'd hardly even call it a scheme 17:09:43 befunge 17:09:57 perhaps a crippled lisp 17:09:58 might even be fairly doable... 17:10:00 ehird`: Do it in Agda2 or Coq or Epigram or something 17:10:04 crisp 17:10:16 oerjan: yow 17:10:17 :) 17:10:18 maybe. 17:10:23 faxlore: never heard of any of those but Coq 17:11:03 oklopol: everyone's done that ;) 17:11:15 done what? 17:11:24 wroten some kind of lisp interpreter in a minimal lisp 17:11:41 i have no idea what that has to do with anything, though 17:11:42 oerjan: the parser will be difficult in befunge :) 17:11:48 oerjan: i assume you mean befunge-98 btw? 17:11:51 to escape the 80x24 17:11:54 yeah 17:12:18 * ehird` tries to think of a pun involving Befunge and Scheme to use as a name 17:12:19 :-) 17:12:41 oerjan said you need to simulate a heap to have mutable structures, i said if it does not have mutable structures, it's so far from the spec i'd hardly call it scheme 17:12:42 hm i haven't got a befunge implementation here 17:12:49 what's the best (i.e. fastest) interpreter out there right now? 17:12:54 parser for scheme difficult? 17:13:11 oerjan: in befunge yeah :) 17:13:17 if it lacks mutable structures, you cannot reason with it as you can with scheme, making it definitely less powerful 17:13:17 no idea 17:13:26 oklopol: your >>> sch has no mutable structures 17:13:30 just lacking vectors doesn't matter much 17:13:33 no set-car! or set-cdr! 17:13:36 indeed, i'd hardly call it a scheme 17:13:46 that doesn't have anything to do with anything either 17:13:47 um mutability IMPACTS on your reasoning 17:13:51 oklopol: well it was a subset of scheme + unlambda-specific functions 17:13:54 iirc 17:14:03 in fact, PLT Scheme 4.0 makes all cons pairs IMMUTABLE by default 17:14:15 you need to use mcons/mcar/mcdr/mset-car!/mset-cdr! for mutability 17:14:20 and PLT is one of the big-uns in scheme 17:15:06 i'm not saying being immutable is bad, i'm saying if structures are immutable, you cannot use it as you might want to use scheme. 17:15:34 which means many scheme programs would have to dramatically change structure to be convertible to an immutable scheme 17:15:44 i'd hardly call such a scheme a scheme 17:15:46 oerjan: my befunge program will be ugly! since i'm commenting it to hell it'll probably look more like a brainfuck program with funny symbols than befunge, heh 17:16:07 oklopol: most scheme programs don't use set-car!/cdr! 17:16:27 which is why PLT - which is the most popular implementation of Scheme (unless this has changed) - is switching 17:16:30 umm no, but many scheme programs do use some mutable features. 17:16:41 oklopol: like? 17:16:53 mutable _variables_ are the rule 17:16:54 dunno, that's just what i've heard from schemere 17:16:57 *schemers 17:17:09 hmm, oerjan makes a good point 17:17:14 oerjan: of course 17:17:20 oerjan: but i would wager that unlambda interp had them. 17:17:31 it couldn't 17:17:37 if you have environments in unlambda you're already doing crazy operations, updating of values would be trivial 17:18:07 no, it isn't. for full mutability of environments you need a heap 17:18:21 without mutable structures, making scheme in unlambda shouldn't be that hard, basically conversion to pointless & list support 17:18:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:18:49 mutable variables. 17:19:02 anyway 17:19:11 who knows what the best befunge implementation is. 17:19:12 fastest, that is 17:19:17 maybe best error messages ;) 17:19:28 i don't recall whether it supported mutual recursion or just did macro expansion of definitions (like the lazy-K scheme afaiu) 17:19:53 lazy k's macrolanguage is not scheme 17:20:03 it's written in scheme and uses s-expressions 17:20:05 but isn't scheme 17:20:18 not even a subset? 17:21:15 nope 17:21:26 it's closer to lambda calculus with macros than scheme 17:36:30 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 17:44:49 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:52:28 anyone re: befunge? 17:56:06 :( 17:56:12 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 17:56:16 * faxlore doesn't understand the question 17:56:24 oh best implementation.. 17:59:11 where best is mainly determined by: fastest, and nice error messages 18:03:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 18:03:00 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:07:35 -!- timotiis has joined. 18:16:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:17:27 nobody? 18:18:19 nope 18:29:09 :( 18:29:14 I guess I could write my own :P 18:31:30 Shit, 8 core mac pro. 18:31:35 What would I do with 8 cores? 18:33:36