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00:12:56 <slereah__> Ooooooh! Dial up if you want to know me!
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05:03:52 <RodgerTheGreat> check it out, guys- I completed my short story "Define your good":
05:04:12 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd love to hear some feedback and constructive criticism. Tell me what you think. :D
05:16:43 <oklopol> konversation owns, only way to open a link is to click "copy url to clipboard" and paste to a browser, also pg6 is selected 5 times out of six no matter which of those i try to open
05:17:15 <oklopol> was a bit hard to follow the plot since i first read page 1, then page 6, then page 4 (which opened instead of 3) :D
05:17:37 <RodgerTheGreat> erm... I could pastebin the URLs if that would make things easier
05:17:59 <oklopol> i could do that myself, but, you know, i'm a martyr
05:18:10 <oklopol> I SHALL NOT REST UNTIL I'VE OPENED THEM
05:19:28 <oklopol> hmm, it seems it's actually impossible to pg2. perhaps i should retry irssi..
05:25:21 <oklopol> well, you know, every client has its flaws...
05:26:07 <oklopol> xchat took 2 minute lag pauses every few minutes, this one can't open links...
05:26:19 <oklopol> irssi wouldn't show me which act i'm in
05:27:38 <oklopol> ...have i mentioned yet the fact my computer screen is randomly scrambled every morning and i have to reboot the comp to see anything?
05:28:25 <pikhq> This is closely related to why I think that distro sucks.
05:28:35 <pikhq> My complaints about my Linux system are small.
05:28:45 <pikhq> And really, it's a complaint about my monitor, not my OS.
05:28:48 <oklopol> pikhq: computers are allergic to me.
05:29:06 <pikhq> My monitor seems to take a bit of time in the morning to warm up.
05:29:09 <oklopol> doesn't matter what i do, nothing works :)
05:30:35 <RockerMONO> RodgerTheGreat: nice... me and danopia got a working brainfuck parser in PHP =P
05:31:39 <pikhq> Thank you, Rodger,
05:32:43 <RockerMONO> but despite my inability to figure out wtf to call things, it works =P
05:32:59 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: I discussed the same thing with him yesterday. . .
05:33:35 <pikhq> And I was thinking 'What's there to parse? In pslbnf, top => brainfuck_token'. . .
05:34:13 <pikhq> I think that it seems a nonsensical sentence.
05:34:20 <pikhq> seems to be, even.
05:36:16 <pikhq> "ADD 1 TO CRUSADE GIVING CRUSADE" love it.
05:38:11 <oklopol> when computers have killed all humans, cobol is probably all they remember from them
05:38:19 <pikhq> Depressing, but appropriate.
05:38:39 <oklopol> i like the ending, although a gory battle might've worked better for me
05:39:01 <oklopol> (would've made less sense, admittedly)
05:39:28 <RodgerTheGreat> and this fits into the universe of a much larger story that I am slowly, laboriously fleshing out, so rest assured there will be more
05:39:53 <oklopol> was hoping for that, will he unite robots and humans in the end? :D
05:40:25 <oklopol> the main character those 6 would suggest.
05:40:55 <RodgerTheGreat> and it was never mentioned in this series, but his female counterpart is named "galena"
05:40:59 <oklopol> oh, i was a bit confused by the ending, confused two bots there
05:41:14 <pikhq> The question is: will Galena rebel?
05:41:56 <RodgerTheGreat> but even if she does, there's going to be a lot of killing
05:42:07 <oklopol> i blame the fact i read them in wrong order initially. was wondering why the chick was shot because oscar couldn't kill his master :D
05:42:10 <pikhq> Yay, killing. Wait, that's robots killing.
05:44:04 <oklopol> (read 1 first, then 6, so naturally the robot in the last picture was oscar in my eyes)
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05:45:27 <RodgerTheGreat> soo... what aspect of the world do you want me to detail in my next short?
05:45:58 <pikhq> Konqueror is using 131MB. . . With 10 tabs, and each probably has about 10MB worth of pictures. . .
05:46:42 <RodgerTheGreat> I suppose I'll rephrase that. Is there anything about this story that particularly piqued your interest?
05:47:42 <pikhq> Hmm. How did Galena get in on the crusade?
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05:47:53 <pikhq> What's the end result of the crusade, for that matter?
05:48:02 <pikhq> And why are the bots running COBOL?
05:48:27 <oklopol> oh, right, i definately wanna know about what they are praising
05:49:02 <oklopol> always interesting whether they can reproduce without humans, because it's kinda ironic if they can't.
05:49:21 <oklopol> but, then again, that's not part 2 material, prolly
05:49:50 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: the end result of the crusade is a rather expansive topic
05:50:01 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: you're curious about Silica, or the Archetype?
05:51:11 <oklopol> i'll read it again, in order this time, seems i've missed some stuff.
05:51:39 <pikhq> The Archetype, myself.
05:51:50 <pikhq> Hell, just cover all of it. ;p
05:52:59 <RodgerTheGreat> pikhq: alright, gotcha- I'll start coming up with a good way to flesh that out. Perhaps a guided tour of the Axon Technologies R&D department?
05:54:04 <pikhq> That could work; I assume the Archetype is from there.
05:56:20 <RodgerTheGreat> Axon Technologies was in the business of developing patentable tech and licensing it to other companies to produce. Their original specialization was high-quality random number generators.
05:58:56 <oklopol> before the archetype might be interesting to know how global the robot crusade is
05:59:08 <oklopol> add a comma there, if that was confusing
05:59:12 <RodgerTheGreat> In order to confirm the randomness of their products, they developed quite sophisticated pattern recognition hardware. In fact, as the devices became more complex they began to incorporate genetically engineered bacteria into self-assembling neural-net like material called "neurogel". In a flash of inspiration, one researcher realized that these pattern matchers could be trivially reapplied to artificial intelligence
06:00:20 <RodgerTheGreat> Progress was achingly slow at first, but neurogel's unique properties allowed for experimentation on scales far beyond what was possible with conventional computers.
06:01:06 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: you should write scifi
06:01:40 <RodgerTheGreat> The newly formed AI arm of Axon poured their efforts into an assistive design tool- imagine the ultimate CAD application. It learned design techniques as people used it.
06:02:37 <RodgerTheGreat> The tool could soon extrapolate simple sketches into complete working designs. Then, it was turned on itself.
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06:04:40 <RodgerTheGreat> The result was the first artificial sentience. It was aware, in some sense, but not in any fashion comprehensible to humans. By studying the design of the new program, researchers made more progress in artificial intelligence in a year than had occurred in the previous century.
06:07:20 <RodgerTheGreat> The tool continued to grow and evolve, assisted by researchers skilled in diverse fields. Because the AI division of Axon was called "Green sector" he tool was known simply as "Project Green" or just "Green".
06:08:18 <RodgerTheGreat> And so, Green was the progenitor, or archetype, if you will, of every AI that followed it. It designed many itself.
06:08:46 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: have you been wining up?
06:09:21 <RodgerTheGreat> oklopol: and no, sorry- I don't have a lot of patience for simply writing. I think making comics is much more rewarding and expressive (if much more grueling)
06:11:24 <oklopol> i just don't like comics that much, since i suck at decrypting them :P
06:11:50 <oklopol> i don't doubt you can get all that in comic form
06:12:00 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: is it a secret?
06:12:37 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: about the 'maybe'
06:14:32 <oklopol> i guess taking stuff literally for fun is a finnish thing
06:18:14 <pikhq> Esperanto for 'good'.
06:18:20 <pikhq> Pronounced bon-eh.
06:20:33 <RodgerTheGreat> I originally assumed you were suggesting a name for something.
06:21:48 <RodgerTheGreat> oh, side note- there's an entire group of protagonist robots in this story named after 6502 opcodes.
06:24:50 <RodgerTheGreat> It's a little tough selecting ones that are pronounceable. :S
06:26:27 <RodgerTheGreat> the ones above could be phonetically constructed as follows: Tacks, Tay, Decks, Roar, Rahl, Benny, Laser, and Comp
06:27:23 <oklopol> i'm fairly sure pretty much no one could deduce they're from opcodes
06:27:33 <oklopol> i love that, on the other hand
06:27:41 <RodgerTheGreat> well, they'll be spelled like the opcodes in many cases
06:29:09 <oklopol> might be a fun expericence for the reader to realize at some point the names were opcodes all along
06:29:56 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm trying to figure out a way to correlate their names and serial numbers to hide a program to do something
06:30:23 <RodgerTheGreat> but it's really hard to imagine a 6502 program that works at all without repeating. :/
06:30:51 <RodgerTheGreat> I call upon the collective minds of #Esoteric to help me come up with something nifty!
06:31:24 <oklopol> that's the problem with writing fiction: the coding part is simply too hard.
06:31:25 <RodgerTheGreat> ROL, TAX and BNE must all be used in the program, and it must ideally be at least 30 instructions long
06:31:58 <RodgerTheGreat> if we can make a random number generator, it'd be a brilliant full-circle
06:32:29 <oklopol> that's actually something that seems feasible to do
06:33:08 <oklopol> basically, x: add mul jmp x, and then some obfuscation?
06:34:13 <RodgerTheGreat> we have 5 registers in 6502 land: An accumulator, two index registers X and Y, a stack pointer and a program counter
06:34:27 <oklopol> we need a fixed prime to multiply with, shouldn't be hard to do with binary logic
06:34:48 <RodgerTheGreat> stack operations are actually really clean and easy, mercifully
06:36:03 <oklopol> could try cooking something up, wonder if there's a 6502 emulator or something
06:37:10 <RodgerTheGreat> 6502 has 11 addressing modes ranging in complexity from straightforward to outright mindbending
06:38:50 <oklopol> yeah, just found that out myself
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08:02:49 <oklopol> in code golf, is the "size" the size in bytes? 35 bytes is kinda short for choose :\
08:05:00 <oklopol> {AB->*:..A/*$:..B|*:..$A-B}
08:05:44 <oklopol> {AB->*:..A/*(:..B|:..(A-B}
08:07:06 <oklopol> btw | there is union, fun way to do the factors of the denominator :D
08:15:48 <oklopol> ;aB,-A,/FcA*FcBFc best i could do right now, ";aB" splits an input list into n and k, where B (the k in n choose k) is left in the stream "-A" specifies the function that's applied to the object on the stream, in this case B, so A-B will be left on the stream, then just divide factorial of A by the product of the factorial of b and factorial of that which was on the stream == A-B
08:18:29 <oklopol> ;ab;)&*,/_A*_B_-AB here, factorial is defined in terms of reduce, which is )&
08:18:57 <oklopol> the function factorial, )&*, is put on the stream, and used as "_"
08:19:26 <oklopol> i wanna see choose in golfscript, i bet i own it
08:25:01 <oklopol> Thanks go to Flagitious for sending in this challenge. Something that might be of interest to you Code Golfers - He recently created a language called GolfScript which was designed specifically to be good for golfing. Please visit the site and have a look. This challenge can be solved in 21 bytes in GolfScript, which he estimates being half the size of what the winning submission on Code Golf will be!
08:25:13 <oklopol> i owned golfscript, as i assumed :)
08:25:35 <oklopol> and didn't even use any spesific features of cise, it naturally has Chs for choose.
08:26:03 <oklopol> 3 bytes, 21 bytes, that's an ownage factor of 7
08:33:45 <oklopol> this uses a cise-spesific thingie
08:34:07 <oklopol> which i think i also used with quicksort and mergesort, so this is not especially made for this situation.
08:34:21 <oklopol> when a calculation fails, the contents of the stream are just passed on
08:34:44 <oklopol> this means B=0 naturally ends the calculation, and returns A, because it was on the stream
08:34:50 <oklopol> otherwise, the stream is left untouched
08:35:28 <oklopol> it's actually ;Ab,'B%AB, because we want A on the stream ofc, otherwise gcd(a,b) would've been 0
08:36:30 <oklopol> here, the parsing of "Ab" into ["A", "b"] instead of just one variable is determined by the fact parsing it as ["Ab"] would've left "BA" without meaning.
08:36:58 <oklopol> "B % B A" in case i'm not the only one whose client messed that up
08:40:57 <oklopol> cise does have the minor problem though that there is no way to actually call a function with a value, you can currently just describe functions.
08:41:26 <oklopol> although just specifying that the last function in the program is called should suffice
08:43:37 <oklopol> hmm, 29 bytes for 1000 digits of pi... fuck
08:43:55 <oklopol> anybody wanna tell me how pi is calculated digit-by-digit :|
08:44:21 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: just praising my victory over golfscript
08:44:48 <oklopol> and realizing i may be doing that too early, since... 29 bytes for 1000 digits of pi, fuckz :\
08:46:02 <oklopol> probably add support for stuff like that so that you only need to describe the method of getting a new digit and specify the base to use
08:46:09 <oklopol> but that doesn't help me with the actual algorithm :)
08:47:43 * oklopol is contemplating making the empty program output "Hello, world!"
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11:38:50 <Figs> If I modify EBNF so that alternations are tried in the order specified, can a grammmar still be ambiguous?
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12:00:12 <slereah__> Set of combinators to compose from (separated by ,) :s,k,i,0,t,l,b,c,q,v,m,u,w,o
12:00:34 <slereah__> The Juggernaut succeed, though it's not the shortest way
12:05:27 <slereah__> Although the way it generates them, it's only roughly by order of size.
12:06:33 <Figs> slereah__'s talk ------------>
12:07:09 <Figs> I'm trying to work out how to handle errors in my parser system
12:07:28 <Figs> where should errors be reported?
12:08:15 <Figs> that's not what I meant :D
12:11:44 <Figs> If I have a parser that supports backtracking, how do I tell where my error is?
12:13:50 <Figs> like, if I have foo = (A,B)|(A,C)|(A,D)
12:14:01 <Figs> and my input is AF
12:14:09 <Figs> (or something like ...AF)
12:14:52 <Figs> reporting "failed to match foo at ____" is not necessarily the correct thing to do
12:15:12 <Figs> like say I have the following C code:
12:16:21 <Figs> I'd like it to say "expected semicolon at ____ but got ___" but more likely, you'd get something like "unexpected ____ at ____"
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12:22:25 <Figs> python lets me do
12:24:11 <Figs> now that I think about it, python doesn't really explain why the syntax is invalid
12:24:20 <Figs> it just says "syntax error"
12:24:22 <Figs> and points to it
12:24:32 <Figs> perhaps that's the solution to this mess
12:24:50 <Figs> just point to the last place that's actually meetable in the string...
12:25:10 <Figs> that should be after the A, right?
12:26:21 <Figs> what if I had Foo = (A,B)|((A,C),D)|(E,F)?
12:26:21 <Figs> and some input like XYZACX
12:26:37 <Figs> and XYZ is consumed by whatever came before it
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13:16:37 <Figs> are you having connection problems?
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13:28:39 <Figs> I assume that's a yes...
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13:46:59 <Figs> wow, this has gone from very nice, very heavy commenting in the last hw assignment, to virtually nothing in this one
13:47:14 <Figs> It feels like it was written by two completely different people
13:47:17 <Figs> ...maybe it was. :P
13:48:10 <Figs> I'm doing a calculator project for my CS hw
13:48:28 <Figs> basically I have to write a stack and a calculator that converts infix to postfix and then evaluates...
13:48:39 <Figs> yay for basic data structures classes :/
13:49:09 <Figs> A lot of the time, I'd rather start from scratch... is that a bad thing?
13:49:17 <Figs> (that I'd want that; obviously I can't do that)
13:50:10 <timotiis> nah, often easier when you've written the whole lot yourself
13:51:29 <Figs> basically the whole assignment is like a big "fill in the blank"
13:52:45 <Figs> if anything, this has taught me that from now on, I should comment what I'm importing from where...
13:53:15 <Figs> since the thing is full of all these functions from about three different files and I can't find the one I have to modify :P
13:53:26 <Figs> imagine if there were 100 files!
13:53:29 <Figs> it'd be a mess
13:56:12 <Figs> I should say, three .c files -- there's a lot more in the project
13:56:38 <Figs> I should further qualify that with "that I have to look at"
14:03:21 <Slereah> Justv give him back a program in Malbolge.
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14:08:18 * Slereah 's trying to make a BF interpreter in python
14:08:24 <Slereah> Unbalanced brackets are hard to deal with
14:14:46 <Figs> I wrote a bf interpreter in C a while back I think...
14:14:51 <Figs> I wonder what I did with it...
14:15:35 <Figs> ha... I just wrote about 7 lines of comments for 3 lines of code...
14:16:06 <Figs> excuse me... 18 lines of comments :P
14:16:16 <Figs> wow, my numberic senses are terrible today
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14:46:35 <Rainarrow> Please, someone tell me if there's interpreters working any more?
14:56:23 <Rainarrow> I'm told if I put the program here, I get outputs
14:56:51 <Figs> I think you want #IRP
14:56:57 <Figs> but I'd have to look at the logs
14:59:03 <Rainarrow> Hello, Figs, I see you entered and left #IRP
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15:00:05 <Figs> doesn't look too active
15:00:12 <Figs> but I could be wrong.
15:00:15 <Rainarrow> yeah, but my program got executed!
15:00:30 <Figs> remember to thank your interpreter :)
15:01:18 <Figs> slereah__, what are you on?
15:04:54 <slereah__> Should I change #esoteric to #IRP ion the wiki?
15:05:54 <Rainarrow> I think you should, #IRP is really amusing me
15:06:14 <Asztal> there's a request on the talk page for that from the 3rd of January
15:07:47 <slereah__> And if I am to die for this heroic act, then so be it!
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15:10:45 <Figs> whoo! it compiles!
15:11:12 <Rainarrow> wait, shouldn't IRP be a interpretation language?
15:11:37 <Figs> my C program :P
15:17:57 <slereah__> Heh. The old borgs had such cheap costumes.
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15:51:18 <Figs> IRP with us! :D
15:52:26 <slereah__> Something that has always bugged me is, the force fields can stop a million nuclear missiles, but if there's something theoretically non-threatening, it passes through!
15:53:04 <slereah__> For instance, PEOPLE THAT WILL WIN THE BATTLE
15:59:00 <Rainarrow> slereah__: did u mean Starcraft 2 or something?
15:59:04 <ehird> i don't recall you, Rainarrow
15:59:09 <ehird> hmm, 'u'.. bad start
16:00:01 <Rainarrow> ehird: sorry for the abbreviation, I won't do it anymore
16:00:46 <Rainarrow> I was googling around for brainf*ck, then I found IRP
16:00:59 <Rainarrow> so it's my first time visiting here
16:01:12 <Rainarrow> Nice to see all you guys, nice to see you ehird
16:03:54 <Figs> Whee, happy potato magic!
16:04:03 <Figs> O_o, o_O, *flee!*
16:04:35 <Figs> I should write some Obfs. C with all my variables as O_o and o_O
16:05:39 <Figs> just think... O_o()->(O_o)->(O_o)()
16:05:40 <Rainarrow> #Error: variables can't begin with numbers
16:05:52 <ehird> Rainarrow: are you a compiler or something
16:06:01 <Figs> he's an IRP interpreter
16:06:22 <ehird> Figs: O_o(!!!)->O_O(...(o_o))->o_O
16:06:27 <ehird> with liberal use of #define
16:06:38 <Figs> Yeah, yeah, but I mean no defines. :)
16:06:51 <Rainarrow> Hello ehird, I'm an apprentice IRP interpreter, nice to meet you!
16:06:55 <Figs> using O_o as a void*
16:07:05 <Figs> I'd probably actually have to do
16:07:30 <Figs> (*O_o)()->(O_o)->(*O_o)();
16:07:47 <Figs> and have the functions I use actually modify O_o as I go
16:08:16 <Figs> my teacher actually showed us obfuscated C in our CS class
16:09:29 <ehird> Figs: computer science... C... hmm
16:09:34 <ehird> I wouldn't call that computer science
16:09:45 <Figs> my university does
16:09:47 <ehird> I'd call it 'computer programming' :)
16:09:56 <Figs> it's simple stuff
16:09:58 <Figs> kind of boring
16:10:14 <ehird> Figs: it's a bad CS class, then :)
16:10:31 <Figs> I'm assuming (hoping) it will get better
16:10:46 * pikhq has yet to take a CS class. . .
16:10:48 <Asztal> have they shown you anything other than C?
16:10:52 <ehird> Figs: It is unlikely.
16:10:57 <Rainarrow> tejeez: how do I get him back online?
16:10:58 <ehird> Ahh. You're fucked.
16:11:03 <pikhq> I'm just a self-taught decent coder. . .
16:11:12 <pikhq> Figs: And anything else taught in 'CS'?
16:11:19 <ehird> Congrats for getting a JavaSchool CS course, try not to listen to it, you might turn retarded :-)
16:11:29 <Figs> We're going to see C++ by the end of the class
16:11:43 <ehird> that is NOT computer science
16:11:44 <Figs> sometime over the next couple years I expect to encounter OCaml
16:11:51 <Figs> but I don't know when
16:11:54 <Rainarrow> ..I guess they actually meant Counter Strike by CS
16:12:09 <Figs> Not so unlikely since I've seen other CS students (higher grades) doing it for class projects
16:14:12 <ehird> Figs: Still, it's a JavaSchool CS course, probably with an added helping of Jebus(TM) and Enterpriseyness
16:14:56 <pikhq> At the school I'm going to, C++ is not the CS program. . . That's just CS 101.
16:15:18 <Figs> They told me that I'm never going to see C++ in the program again, most likely, after this class
16:15:20 <ehird> Figs: I don't know why I said that. :D
16:16:05 <ehird> CS should be a highly theoretical thing :P
16:16:19 <ehird> Personally I think the programming languages involved should be ones like Scheme and Haskell..
16:16:25 <Figs> That's why I'm taking discrete math.
16:17:14 <Figs> I have a (required) basic data structures course (mostly C) and a math cs course
16:17:22 <Figs> in addition to normal math and a logic course
16:18:12 <pikhq> ehird: They strongly recommend you learn other programming languages by the time you're done with the data structures course (freshman level, IIRC).
16:18:52 * pikhq is, of course, at a different, stronger college
16:19:54 <slereah__> Hm. apparently, this chan's window doesn't light up anymore when new messages arrive
16:20:05 <Figs> I can fly! (m)- ^_^ -(m)
16:20:07 <slereah__> Rainarrow, I meant Star Trek, not Starcraft
16:20:57 <ehird> I would say that MIT probably is the only university which has a Platonic Ideal CS course, but then they changed Scheme to Python, which also means no more SICP! damn them
16:21:32 <pikhq> ehird: Sadly, there's colleges worse than what Figs described.
16:21:48 <pikhq> One of the ones I glanced at had C Programming as an advanced course.
16:22:01 <ehird> C can be very hard to understand because of integers!
16:22:03 <pikhq> With, of course, Java being used for the first 2 years. D':
16:22:31 <pikhq> Oh, and UNIX was also considered an advanced level course. . .
16:22:59 <ehird> Note: PERL is a descendent of the older language Perl, designed for the web. Perl was for desktop programs in Windows(R), but was considered to be too difficult to learn, and PERL was created instead.
16:23:09 <pikhq> (MST just assumes you're building everything with GCC)
16:23:17 <ehird> (Alternatively, s/PERL/CGI/, s/Perl/PERL/)
16:24:01 <pikhq> Missouri University of Science & Technology.
16:24:02 <slereah__> Maladie Sexuellement Transmissible
16:26:03 <pikhq> Anyways: a lot of schools just suck at teaching CS.
16:26:39 <pikhq> Frankly, programming should be a single, 101-type course, and you should then move on.
16:27:08 <pikhq> ... Actual computer science?
16:27:51 <Figs> what I'm learning is newbie CS; this is freshman year after all
16:28:02 <Figs> what is a stack, tree, queue, etc?
16:28:17 <Figs> most of the people in my class haven't done C, it seems like
16:28:24 <Figs> so they're also learning C
16:28:53 <Figs> the first assignment was to reinvent console IO using fgetc and fputc
16:29:22 <Figs> (including handling numbers properly, etc)
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16:31:02 <ehird> asiekerka or whoever did that
16:31:23 <Figs> it's an extention of #IRP
16:40:57 <ehird> slereah__: Epic. What was it doing?
16:40:59 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: Hello
16:41:07 <slereah__> Although I should change the code so that it actually tries every combination in order of *length*
16:42:51 <slereah__> Well, returns true for 0, false for other numbers.
16:43:00 <slereah__> The result being "``tk`v`k0 converts to ``c`t`k0k"
16:43:15 <Rainarrow> I'm leaving guys, nice to see you all today
16:43:58 <slereah__> The actual shortest result is ``v`k0k, but as said, it doesn't do it in order of length so far.
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16:58:50 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: what happened to the prime-number-popup one, anyway?
16:59:02 <ehird> you never made more than 2, or at least i dont' recall you having said anything about any further editions in here
16:59:36 <RodgerTheGreat> that was backburnered, but I may pick it back up when I have time
17:00:43 <Figs> Add 1 to Crusade giving Crusade ... haha :)
17:01:22 <Figs> One of these days I should learn COBOL...
17:01:43 <RodgerTheGreat> I know a little COBOL- enough to make jokes, at least. :D
17:02:18 <Figs> ehird: Why not? I already know brainfuck, some Befunge... I don't think COBOL will hurt my mind more than brainfuck
17:02:51 <Figs> {this is where you should insert "That's what it wants you to think... muahahaha... *ahem*"}
17:03:03 <slereah__> Not to program, but you can learn it in like half an hour.
17:03:19 <Figs> RTG, you've seen Simulated Comic Product #4 right?
17:09:12 <Figs> Your comic reminded me vaguely of it
17:09:49 <ehird> you know how freenode demands log links in the topic?
17:10:00 <ehird> we should encrypt the URL with a one-time pad, tell nobody what it is, and put it in the topic
17:10:24 <ehird> links to the channel logs if there are any
17:10:32 <ehird> you have to link to them or you can't have them, is official policy
17:16:12 <slereah__> I should first generate the new list of combinators, sort it by length, and then try them out.
17:16:50 <slereah__> Otherwise, (v`k0) (k) arrives after (tk) (v`k0)
17:22:10 <Figs> my throat is a world of pain
17:22:40 <Figs> evil pain foo! >.< Damn ye, damn ye colds!
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17:34:35 <ehird[erc]> unfortunately it trashes ERC's colours
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18:17:23 <slereah__> Seems like a spambot wiped out part of the Piet Q article
18:19:41 <slereah__> http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Piet-Q
18:31:45 <ehird> click the second-last revision's date
18:31:52 <ehird> submit, add edit summary 'reverting spam'
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18:47:55 <slereah__> What would be sorting a list of strings by length in Python?
18:48:30 <ehird> sort(lst, lambda x,y: len(x) <=> len(y))
18:50:17 <ehird> sorted(lst, lambda x,y: cmp(len(x),len(y)))
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18:51:12 <slereah__> Hm. Apparently, sorting by length is the default function for lists of strings
18:52:03 <ehird> it should do alphabetical, then length
18:52:10 <slereah__> >>> a = ["aaa","aaaa","a","","aa"]
18:52:36 <ehird> but anyway! sorted(lst, lambda x,y: cmp(len(x),len(y)))
18:55:02 <ehird> lambda is an anonymou function.
18:55:07 <ehird> do you even KNOW python..?
18:55:54 <slereah__> Not enough to program it in an elegant way.
18:57:30 <slereah__> And so far, not much need to use sorting functions.
18:57:38 <ehird> lambda isn't a sorting function
18:57:41 <ehird> lambda is a basic language feature.
19:05:33 <oklopol> slereah__: lambda is a lambda...
19:06:07 <oklopol> i'm assuming you know what that means given that you live for your combinators?
19:07:02 <oklopol> lambda param1, param2.. paramn: result
19:07:38 <oklopol> lambda x, y: cmp(len(x), len(y)) is a lambda that takes two params, takes their len and compares them as integers using cmp
19:08:15 <Asztal> (x, y) => x.Length.CompareTo(y.Length)
19:08:29 <Asztal> ignore the horrible .NETty comparing ;)
19:08:46 <Asztal> with one parameter, it's something like: x => x.Length
19:10:27 <oklopol> well, if you want the comparison, {_<>__}
19:10:57 <ehird> (lambda (x) (cmp (length x) (length y))
19:11:04 <ehird> well, only works on lists and i don't know what cmp would be :)
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19:11:52 <ehird> (fun (x) (<> (length x) (length y)))
19:12:05 <ehird> which does work on strings, in my AsOfYetUnreleasedDialectTM
19:12:14 <ehird> 'fun' and '<>' may change names
19:12:22 <ehird> Maybe just: (fun (x) (cmp (length x) (length y)))
19:14:08 <ehird> 'LispDialect: makes programming (fun ...)'
19:14:32 <ehird> also it exists nicely with defun
19:16:56 <ehird> oklopol: give me a weird oklotalk sample and explain it
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19:25:21 <Hiat1> Oerjan : Thanks yet again - what would I do without you :P
19:26:00 <Hiat1> I thought that this would be appreciated here: http://xkcd.com/285/
19:26:32 <oklopol> btw. i've added some seriously weird stuff, i'm beginning to feel it cannot be executed fast.
19:26:59 <oerjan> Hiat1: it would if we didn't all read xkcd already :D
19:27:33 <oerjan> actually i learned about xkcd from this channel
19:27:34 <Hiat1> I just discovered it today oerjan
19:27:46 <Hiat1> damn, well I tried ;)
19:28:21 <slereah__> Hm. The program found ^x^y.yx in three minutes.
19:28:40 <slereah__> I should try weeding out more possibilities.
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19:32:57 <slereah__> 2 minutes when removing stuff of the form ```skX[stuff]
19:33:36 <ehird> Hmm, is 'writing malbolge' generally considered not very hard any more? :P
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19:33:55 <ehird> I might make a 'decoded malbolge -> malbolge' program thing.
19:34:13 <ehird> then... something like BrainFuck->decoded malbolge
19:34:48 <Hiat1> but yes, I agree with Slereah, you're digging your own grave ;)
19:35:06 <slereah__> Yes. And you're digging it with a spoon
19:36:15 <slereah__> *by breathing really hard on the ground
19:36:30 <Hiat1> *by staring it down until it submits to your will
19:36:31 <oerjan> *by thinking that the soil should move
19:36:53 <Hiat1> *by doing nothing in the hope that something will happen
19:36:54 <slereah__> *At a distance of 7 parsecs from the plot
19:37:18 <Hiat1> ehird: I think you get the point :P
19:38:57 <Hiat1> Yes, IFF you succeed you'll be rushed of in a private jet to some exotic location and have your milk personally sliced by three slaves
19:39:34 <Hiat1> ok, your water then
19:40:12 <Hiat1> OK WITH EVERYBODY?
19:40:13 <oerjan> mark, if oklopol thinks something is sick then it _really_ is
19:40:23 <oklopol> oerjan: did you miss the pun?!?
19:40:52 <oerjan> well my remark still stands ;)
19:41:12 <oklopol> just watching http://www.pornhost.com/3715829895/ xD
19:41:25 <Hiat1> ok, well, im off to shower
19:43:20 <slereah__> A hord of strapping young men with vibrators?
19:43:55 <slereah__> Is that like the Japanese version of the hangman?
19:44:08 <oklopol> answer wrong and get raped! this is the greatest game show ever :D
19:44:15 <slereah__> At every mistake, the threat becomes even bigger
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19:45:09 <slereah__> The girl doesn't look too thrilled
19:45:33 <oklopol> that's just their way to enjoy it!
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19:46:38 <slereah__> That's the silliest rape I've ever seen
19:48:16 <slereah__> What do you think those people put in their resumes?
19:48:20 <oklopol> a two inch penis isn't gonna hurt anyone
19:48:38 <slereah__> "I raped people in game shows while making silly noises"?
19:49:16 <oklopol> i'd put that in my cv proudly! :D
19:49:34 <slereah__> I always love the pixelated genitals.
19:50:44 <slereah__> This video is quite mind boggling.
19:51:11 <slereah__> I'm trying to imagine a context where such a show would be possible, but I'm just drawing a blank
19:51:30 <oklopol> if tv had stuff like that, i would watch.
19:52:16 <oklopol> watching porn is my hobby, not masturbation
19:52:32 <oklopol> well, sure, we're all human.
19:52:32 <slereah__> It's probably the kind of show where you have to be real confident in your partner.
19:53:00 <slereah__> "If she gets it wrong, you get gangraped, with silly noises!"
19:54:05 <slereah__> I hope they're advised to take some contraceptives before.
19:54:30 <oklopol> it'd be interesting to know how much of that is real
19:54:48 <slereah__> Who knows, maybe it's an actual game show of a porn channel!
19:55:15 <slereah__> But I fear that the cultural barrier might be too thick to guess.
19:55:30 <oklopol> i don't believe in cultures
19:57:29 <Asztal> never ceases to surprise me.
19:58:06 <slereah__> So Asztal, you can go home with what you've got...
19:58:33 <oklopol> Asztal: have you looked at the german stuff? you don't see that on the web if you don't look for it, but i can tell ya, quite a lot of surprises there too :)
19:58:57 <oklopol> although game shows are a pretty much just a japanese thing
19:59:06 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: i can imagine that
19:59:30 <oklopol> ...did i start this topic?
19:59:46 <oklopol> gonna make me some hot sausages ->
20:00:38 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: reverse polish
20:02:52 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: why do you ask?
20:08:26 <bsmntbombdood> i want to hear a polish person say "spirytus rektyfikowany"
20:08:46 <Hiat1> spirytus rektyfikowany
20:09:06 <Hiat1> naah, just pulling your polish, I can do RPN though
20:09:32 <Hiat1> anyway,it's late, im tired, im off
20:10:04 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: what does that mean?
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21:05:37 <ehird> hm. i just spent a load of time writing 'setq' as a macro
21:05:57 <slereah__> (``ss`kk)(`k`si) appears before (`s`k`si)(k)
21:06:22 <ehird> COMPILE-TIME: if, null, car, pair, cdr, cadr, error, or, cddr
21:06:29 <ehird> RUN-TIME: progn, set
21:06:56 <slereah__> I should find out what's the step at which point the expression can only be bigger
21:11:20 * oerjan smells a halting problem
21:11:39 <ehird> 'There is no empirical proof that Athiest exist.' -- anonymous person
21:12:50 <ehird> ATHEISTS DON'T EXIST IT'S A LIE
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21:19:19 <pikhq> Of course atheists exist.
21:19:26 <pikhq> Who else would worship Athe?
21:19:48 <ehird> this is a good point
21:21:43 <pikhq> Spagnostics: Those who know sp?
21:22:16 <pikhq> GregorR: That's pastafarianism.
21:22:27 <GregorR> They can have more than one name :P
21:24:58 <Asztal> Hmm, apparently "the Flying Spaghetti Monster is often used by atheists, agnostics (known by Pastafarians as "spagnostics"), and others as a modern version of Russell's teapot"
21:25:07 <Asztal> which isn't exactly what I thought it meant.
21:25:29 <slereah__> I think the length will immediatly be superior at every step, since the minimal length of a new step will be the max+1 of the old
21:25:51 <slereah__> So I just need to compare every valid expressions from the first valid step
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21:32:00 <ehird> personally i think you
21:32:11 <ehird> 're all heathens for not seeing the True Nature of the Invisible Pink Unicorn, in Her Holiness
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21:33:30 <RodgerTheGreat> bah. The Invisible Pink Unicorn is just a bunch of nutjobs misinterpreting the presence of his noodliness.
21:34:01 <pikhq> The Invisible Pink Unicorn is a mere servant of His Noodliness.
21:35:09 * RodgerTheGreat is currently wearing his MTU Pastafarian Club T-shirt.
21:38:14 <Asztal> soon my Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster shall arrive... :)
21:38:30 <Slereah> It doesn't depend on length, it depends on the order of applications.
21:39:16 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm actually the Pastarrr of my local pastafarian youth group
21:39:25 <Slereah> ``ss`kk jus applies two elements from [s,k,i,ss,kk,...], while `s`k`si must apply s to `k`si
21:39:29 <ehird> to be honest i don't like being molested by spaghetti
21:39:40 <ehird> i much prefer being molested by a unicorn, that is invisible, and pink
21:39:42 <Slereah> ehird: Not even for your immortal soul?
21:39:51 <Slereah> Well, pink is a little gay
21:39:58 <RodgerTheGreat> http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/unicorn_power.jpg
21:39:59 <ehird> Slereah: But it's invisible.
21:40:14 <ehird> RodgerTheGreat: Yes, pretty much, except it's white, and visible
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22:00:52 <Slereah> Seems the Juggernaut just exchanged speed for shortness
22:03:14 <Slereah> Third step with three combinators, that's a maximum of 24,492 combinators to check
22:03:31 <Slereah> Damn that combinatorial explosion!
22:04:26 <oklopol> i wonder how many mad scientists have died in a combinatorial explosion
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23:36:24 <ehird> top top-1 top-2 ... end
23:36:30 <ehird> end ... top-2 top-1 top
23:37:10 <RockerMONO> ehird: if i knew what either of those were i'd be able to answer =P
23:41:31 <oerjan> obviously it should be
23:42:13 <oerjan> i mean you cannot call it top unless it's on the TOP, now CAN YOU?
23:43:28 <ehird> I love Haskell. I'm just terrible at it :D
23:46:09 <slereah__> oerjan: What if you're in Australia?
23:48:24 <oerjan> slereah__: well the Australians have their monitors upside down, so it cancels out
23:52:56 <pikhq> ehird: That depends upon the language.
23:53:05 <pikhq> If it's RPN, end ... top-2 top-1 top.
23:54:25 <slereah__> RPN is like reversing the polarity.
23:58:32 <ehird> pikhq: Welp it's concatentative, so yeah
23:58:41 <ehird> because a stack is top : (top-1 : ...
23:58:51 <ehird> Also: if you represent functions as a stack.
23:59:01 <ehird> You pop off an instruction. run it. loop.
23:59:07 <ehird> So: This way means it's printed correctly.
23:59:29 <oerjan> it's only an added reverse to change it...