< 1202170082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION contemplates making an IRC bot < 1202170204 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty straightforward, really < 1202170228 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can link you to a Java lib that could let you finish a BF bot in about half an hour < 1202170271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make one in PEBBLE. < 1202170312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll probably give up soon. < 1202170337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just make a PEBBLE bot, then. < 1202170349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or. . . I dunno. < 1202170358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, I've lost sense of what I want to actually *do*. < 1202170444 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Write a bot, in PEBBLE, which can interpret PEBBLE via either brainfuck or c. < 1202170484 0 :zbrown!n=rufius@unaffiliated/zbrown JOIN :#esoteric < 1202170522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Only if you implement PEBBLE in PEBBLE. < 1202170535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will! ... just later < 1202170546 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, yeah. Don't use PSOX or anything, just netcat! < 1202170557 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..wow, that means writing a brainfuck interp in PEBBLE < 1202170558 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1202170576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1202170648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: seriously, you want a PEBBLE 2 which does automatic allocation of temporary variables. < 1202170655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a real drag. < 1202170659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202170761 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pc11.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/tech/1173057314/ heh look, my submission is mentioned in the last few posts. < 1202170765 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute, if only i could read japanese < 1202170771 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google is fun) < 1202171314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only I could read *complex* Japanese. < 1202171394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins the PEBBLE 2 stuff < 1202171400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I have time to actually think it over! < 1202171735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking one of the things PEBBLE 2 will have is a more useful preprocessing stage. < 1202171755 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I present new doodles: http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1202171064-dud1.png, http://nonlogic.org/dump/images/1202171075-dud2.png < 1202171816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, I'm thinking about axing the add and addvar bit. . . < 1202171848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be a += macro, which will act appropriately based upon whether one of its arguments is a variable or a number. < 1202171942 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: omg, you'll have to implement garbage collection of temp vars < 1202171944 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must! :D < 1202171962 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you thinking about building some kind of system for configuring a build to target different BF interpreters? < 1202171964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1202171972 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pwnsome < 1202171978 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes even the c backend non-trivial! < 1202171986 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the ability to tell the compiler things like wrapping and EOF behavior? < 1202172014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: That's part of *why* I plan on having a better preprocessor. < 1202172028 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1202172036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can do "IF {WRAPPING} {wrapping code} else {non-wrapping code}" < 1202172047 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: shouldn't that be automatic and abstracted away < 1202172048 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-| < 1202172060 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty nifty either way < 1202172063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: That will be used for implementation of the stdlib macros. < 1202172075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully, I'll have all that junk abstracted away. < 1202172076 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why if {wrapping} < 1202172078 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do < 1202172080 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if wrapping < 1202172089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two would be equivalent. < 1202172133 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: could you please write your own parser? :P < 1202172141 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing pebble in tcl syntax is unbearable to say the least < 1202172145 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my vote: s-exp! s-exp!) < 1202172185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr. You *have* to say that just as I'm thinking "let's just do proper, full-on Tcl syntax, rather than my abused bits of it". < 1202172228 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make something similar to assert() for debugging? < 1202172234 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :) < 1202172238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you must! < 1202172251 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even in a limited form, you could save BF coders a load of sanity < 1202172251 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I can see pikhq is going to have a field day with brainfuck text generation algorithms.. < 1202172260 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1202172274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. There's a thought. < 1202172274 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"astrnfld1==2" < 1202172278 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking forward to seeing what he can come up with < 1202172285 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What? Build text generation in to it? If so, yes. < 1202172300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: PEBBLE 1 has (limited) text generation already. < 1202172307 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but not awesome :P < 1202172308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To not have that much would make PEBBLE 2 a *downgrade*. < 1202172313 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be able to do: < 1202172316 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :txtgen "hello" > var < 1202172323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where var is an array < 1202172326 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes -- you must implement arrays! < 1202172336 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do something like "assert cell = value [error message] " or "assert cells = 'several ascii representations' [error message]" < 1202172376 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if pikhq and calamari put their heads together I have no doubt the result would be incredible. < 1202172395 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I venture: PEBBLE2 should be totally self-hosted. < 1202172407 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With some kind of crappy, limited tcl interpreter that you can use to compile itself. < 1202172417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my current syntax, 'assert {$cell == value} "ERROR here"' or some such. < 1202172426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Are you fucking insane? < 1202172433 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. Why shouldn't I be? < 1202172435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to actually have an implementation, thanks. < 1202172446 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have one. The tcl one. < 1202172451 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you could use to compile the pebble2 one. :< < 1202172453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However. . . < 1202172468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make PEBBLE2 powerful enough, I *could* manage to do self-hosting. < 1202172483 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! It would evolve around a REAL-WORLD PROBLEM: compiling an esoteric language. < 1202172522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one hand, some of the data structure implementations necessary would probably be excruciating, but on the other hand it would be pretty nifty < 1202172568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Given sane arrays, one could at least pull it off. ;) < 1202172574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: So give it arrays and structures. < 1202172582 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you just have to implement a compilation technique for them ;) < 1202172629 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. doing pointers would really suck, but heaps can be done in-place to create a non-pointer based map structure in an array < 1202172636 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd probably be your best bet < 1202172637 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But think how awesome an s-exp syntax would be: < 1202172646 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defstruct tmpvar < 1202172656 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something < 1202172657 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something < 1202172658 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : field something) < 1202172660 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202172747 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Actually, it would be very good for e.g. the macros. < 1202172760 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since macros are just compile-time procedures, a lot of pebble stuff would be trivial < 1202172769 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your preprocessor would be elegant, instead of just dumb replacement. < 1202172858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: You realise that I don't think functionally, right? < 1202172872 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: s-expression syntax != functional. < 1202172916 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But macros like that are really elegant. Basically, whenever you see a call to one, in the compiler, you interpret it with the arguments as in the code (well, unevaluated of course). Whatever that returns is used instead of the macro call. < 1202172952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defmacro thing (...) (if *wrapping* ...return wrapping code... ...return non-wrapping code...)) < 1202172955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1202172964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I'm thinking of ATM: http://pastebin.ca/891941 < 1202172984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry for the Tcl syntax; it comes to mind easily. < 1202173029 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, but that'd be far more elegant with lisp-style macros < 1202173036 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that is kind of similar < 1202173042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just exposes some of the internal workings < 1202173082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that syntax would be a royal PITA to self-host. < 1202173112 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What syntax? < 1202173123 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lisp syntax with those macros? < 1202173128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl-style syntax. < 1202173130 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1202173134 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lisp syntax wouldn't. :P < 1202173152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since writing an s-expression parser is trivial, and walking one and doing stuff with it too < 1202173175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would the string substitutions I have work in sexps? < 1202173190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure exactly what you mean. < 1202173191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1202173195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1202173198 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things < 1202173203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Invalid type for $out in __BRAINFUCK__+=. $out is [TYPE $out]; should be var." < 1202173207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ERROR runs at compile-time right? < 1202173213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$out and [TYPE $out] are both substituted. . . < 1202173214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1202173219 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you'd just make error a normal function, and make it take any arguments < 1202173226 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in a macro: < 1202173252 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(error "Invlaid type for " out "in brainfuck-+=. " out " is " (type-of out) "; should be var.") < 1202173257 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the prettiest example, but you get the idea. < 1202173263 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also implement a formatting langugae. < 1202173277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(format "Invalid type for ~ in brainfuck-+=. ..." a) < 1202173282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are still not realising one thing. . . < 1202173288 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe something like $~ if ~ is too common < 1202173300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A self-hosting PEBBLE. . . < 1202173303 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1202173308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you want formatting languages in it. . . < 1202173314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you fucking mad? < 1202173329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you have enough high-level stuff in, then it should be ok. But I agree. < 1202173336 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use the regular error form. < 1202173338 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not hard. < 1202173347 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, if you must -- make it compiler-only. < 1202173387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- evals to -= $out 1 which evals to __-= $out 1. . . Which is done in-compiler. < 1202173402 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's simple. < 1202173406 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said: lisp macros. < 1202173563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Basically, the compiler is a bunch of functions. < 1202173569 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'defmacro' adds a new function to the compiler. < 1202173574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever that function is seen as being invoked, < 1202173586 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function inside the compiler is called, and then the invokation is replaced with the result of that. < 1202173594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very simple, and doesn't require any preprocessor. < 1202173744 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202173768 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IMO the compiler would be simpler and more elegant, and so would be the code. < 1202173781 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a poll on a philosophy blog: < 1202173785 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will the most common response to this poll be 'No'?" < 1202173794 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: old < 1202173809 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, maybe I should explain HOW you replace the invokation with the result of calling the compiler function (macro) < 1202173817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(defmacro foo () '(+ 2 2)) < 1202173823 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? It just returns the code as a list. < 1202173999 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174004 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174019 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must one join *every* channel? :P < 1202174030 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just this one. < 1202174043 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the official one for esolangs. < 1202174043 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Talk tomorrow. < 1202174048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Mmkay. < 1202174222 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bleh, Bunnies!" < 1202174239 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-203-222.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202174454 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i not join this earlier? :| < 1202174487 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarehu: are you aware of the esolangs wiki? < 1202174501 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes generally < 1202174515 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know then :) < 1202174991 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202175154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, calamari. < 1202175159 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1202175209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1202175431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: pikhq is working on a new version of Pebble. I encourage you to join forces with him and create something epic. < 1202175443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly discussing planning ATM. < 1202175455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/891941 < 1202176868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202178938 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202185212 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202185310 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202186089 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202186292 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202186943 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-41-215.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187036 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have a BF program that prints the prime decomposition of a number? < 1202187428 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187428 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187428 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187430 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187552 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202187648 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :oklopol!n=ville@194.251.103.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :faxathisia!n=more@137.195.250.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-178-76.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1202187691 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@c-24-22-4-68.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202189577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202190918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202191021 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202191785 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192281 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192622 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-134.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202192622 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202192904 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202197171 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night" < 1202198399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1202198400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1202200322 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202200323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1202200378 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202200518 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202200520 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@adsl-76-204-89-255.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202200601 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. thx." < 1202201300 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202201471 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1202201480 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1202205416 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202209593 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202209603 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202210804 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1202210897 0 :danopia!i=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1202212132 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202214136 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202214152 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202216212 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-51-27.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202216812 0 :helios24!i=chaos@bytefight.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1202221691 0 :jix!i=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202227951 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202228836 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202228842 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1202229214 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202229233 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202229962 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1202230935 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202230963 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202231242 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1202232330 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-46-56.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1202232361 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh... what does Machine Check Exception mean? That's my new BSoD flavour of the week :( < 1202233466 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that the machine only takes cash. < 1202233491 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send your cash to Microsoft Inc. < 1202233493 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how do I fix it, I use a cheque account < 1202233496 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1202233863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheques, how quaint. you must be american ;) < 1202233876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1202233900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers < 1202233943 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :P < 1202233945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw an article about the SA power shortage in the Economist in the library today, btw < 1202233960 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess South Africa is in Mexico anyhow ;) < 1202233969 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, what did it say? < 1202233978 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's still plenty of cheques in France too! < 1202234023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's a mess caused by politicians not deciding to fix it in time, was my impression < 1202234055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather spending too much time discussing how much to privatize < 1202234090 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then I guess the partial truth is escaping ;) < 1202234129 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's got more to do with cheques under the table than handshakes above it (if you get my meaning :P ) < 1202234148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd guess < 1202234266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it was suggested it might reduce economic growth from 6 to 3 percent < 1202234288 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, lol < 1202234294 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know that one < 1202234369 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202234382 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, they shut down all of the mines in SA for about 6 weeks. Our economy is a raw materials/minerals economy. Currently, every time someone flips the switch to cut Sandton (a wealthy business suburb), SA loses in the tens of millions per hour... < 1202234411 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is excluding the fact that we make a vast majority of the GDP of Gold mining, which is currently not really hapenning < 1202234448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the article mentioned the shutdown too < 1202234470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the mines managed to get a promise of reliable power out of it < 1202234482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at 90% normal level) < 1202234486 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they did, a 90% increase < 1202234490 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) yeah, lol < 1202234557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of 0 is still 0... < 1202234594 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very true, that's the irony :P < 1202234663 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, that is of course, only true if you are cynical - like asi523 and I :P < 1202234674 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202235235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: according to Wikipedia, a Machine Check Exception is really bad < 1202235248 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I believe :( < 1202235252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to mean that something went badly wrong with the hardware < 1202235258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. checksum failure on RAM or cache < 1202235268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it apparently is often caused by overheating < 1202235276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you have to hope that's what's causing it < 1202235340 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I was originally under the impression that this is what occurs when I use my X86_64 cpu heavily (really heavily, been brute forcing my own encryption methods, and breadth searching conway's game of life for methuselahs) in 32bit mode. < 1202235385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always try filling the computer with liquid nitrogen < 1202235395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that method was used to set an overclocking record at one time < 1202235415 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, while that would be fun, it would most certainly burn through both my tower and my pockets :P < 1202235435 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, something stupendous like 6Ghz of a Pentuim 4 < 1202235448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computer still managed to overheat eventually even though the outside was frozen. They only just had enough time to take a photo of the screen showing the fast clock speed before the computer turned itself off for heat reasons < 1202235489 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, awesome :D < 1202235795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster_ < 1202235801 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster1 < 1202235841 0 :AnMaster1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster < 1202236105 0 :sarehu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202236115 0 :sarehu!n=irc@ool-44c637dc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202236886 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202236939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reference to the topic: < 1202236941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat. < 1202236946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat :- repeat. < 1202236948 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies < 1202236958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: wow, that was unexpected < 1202237093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit before my estimate, that < 1202237153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I didn't even finish writing the line that is actually needed to make that into an infinite loop < 1202237161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if I write: < 1202237171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goal :- repeat, fail. < 1202237176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1202237179 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202237312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that all langs should have some easy way to implement multithreading and backtracking < 1202237325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can be hard to implement if the language doesn't give specific features that allow it < 1202237338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc is normally enough to write an implementation, though < 1202237386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc + mutable state gives you all monads < 1202237427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is threading a monad? < 1202237433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it strikes me as being more of an antimonad < 1202237438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1202237442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because monads cause things to happen in order < 1202237450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and threading causes things to happen in an apparently random order < 1202237451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtracking certainly is < 1202237457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1202237510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative threading can probably be put in a monad < 1202237527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again agreed < 1202237553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I like about INTERCAL's threading model is the way that it's cooperative threading allows guarantees on the relative speed of threads < 1202237561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be used for logic on occasion < 1202237567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the C-INTERCAL Hello, World on the wiki < 1202237578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it's/its/ < 1202237618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, the model is completely impractical for serious langs as far as I can tell < 1202237628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the backtracking model, on the other hand, is quite elegant while still being unusual < 1202240979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1202242286 0 :ehird`!n=ehird@user-54453ccd.lns4-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202242701 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :OLD TOPIC IS GONE < 1202242733 0 :fax!n=afg@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202242737 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1202242755 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know anything about ABSYS? < 1202242816 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202242817 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1202242854 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: i have a question -- are you the same fax as faxastheisdfsdkf or however you spell it or are there two confusingly-similarly-named people in here < 1202242859 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first logic programming language, appanetly < 1202242889 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, It's me < 1202242937 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: hmm, i didn't know you were UK. :p < 1202242952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABSYS well, one publication < 1202242955 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you have fun tracking it down < 1202242982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202243027 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a suprisingly large number of british folk in here < 1202243047 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be something in the water.. < 1202243066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1202243082 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to add mutable conses to haskell but failed :/ < 1202243115 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202243121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1202243148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed as though the window manager went crazy; no window frames were available, just the client areas of the windows, which acted as normal < 1202243170 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: trivial < 1202243193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type MList a = ST [a] < 1202243195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1202243195 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202243206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your WM crashed < 1202243211 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morale: always keep an xterm open < 1202243212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1202243220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had two open < 1202243229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logout/login solved it < 1202243270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: was it you who added the latest anarchy golf challenges? < 1202243272 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use twm, that never crashes :-) < 1202243277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which ones? < 1202243288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two versions of multiply < 1202243292 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(speaking of which, it seems the japanese userbase of anarchy golf call it anagolf, which is far easier to type) < 1202243294 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, i didn't < 1202243294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a simple program interpreter < 1202243296 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdx or whoever did < 1202243299 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did the simple program one < 1202243305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course not simple at all :-) < 1202243319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have a /genuine/ entry for it < 1202243320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowzer < 1202243320 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523(genuine) < 1202243329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: show the code? that's pretty cool :D < 1202243333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't nest parens more than 2 deep in all circumstances < 1202243339 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202243353 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my "Multiply" entry is clever < 1202243361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastes < 1202243364 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p eval gets(nil).gsub(",","*") < 1202243369 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiply long: < 1202243375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/892988 < 1202243378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$<.map{|x|p eval x.gsub(",","*")} < 1202243385 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is forbidden .. http://www.absysinfo.com/ < 1202243391 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, it compiles. < 1202243406 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't actually do any parsing stuff though, does it? < 1202243406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more a s/// to change the code into Perl < 1202243409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202243411 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just transforms the non-perl bits into perl < 1202243415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't nest parens more than 1 level deep either < 1202243437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could actually write a shorter version that did, but only if they upgraded Perl to 5.010 < 1202243445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't think has been released yet < 1202243453 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing about yours is that it isn't as conceptually elegant < 1202243456 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine, < 1202243459 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if' is a composite < 1202243462 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't implemented as one < 1202243464 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's called as one < 1202243469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since {...} is a lambda < 1202243476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you might be doing that < 1202243484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if is your only combinator, so I optimised for that < 1202243490 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :) < 1202243502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some shortcomings as well; you can't call a variable i or f, for instance, because those letters are part of the word if < 1202243506 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1202243511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lexer doesn't distinguish word boundaries in keywords < 1202243518 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cool thing about mine is that it's... pretty hard to parse properly < 1202243522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{x. x} {x. x} < 1202243527 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's either two lambdas, or a call to a lambda < 1202243535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: \n is not a seperator) < 1202243539 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack 3 4 fact 4 would work. < 1202243568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n in my compiler means "print the result of evaling the next expression unless it's a subroutine definition" < 1202243577 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw < 1202243580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look for a : on a line to see whether to print or not < 1202243581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the evil c compiler entry? < 1202243595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1202243598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it up at the moment < 1202243609 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, well i underestimated those japanese < 1202243613 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nmt.ne.jp/~ysas/diary/?200705b#200705161 someone made a real compiler for it. < 1202243615 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiles to postscript. < 1202243617 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean -- WTF? < 1202243626 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nmt.ne.jp%2F%7Eysas%2Fdiary%2F%3F200705b%23200705161&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 translated page, but the source is messed up < 1202243643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Evil C Compiler to the ANAGORU finally written in PostScript. とりあえず短くする以前に動作するものを、取り急ぎバイナリ化もせず生でコミット。 Shorten work in the meantime before that, without a moment to raw binary also committed. すんごくでかいけど、これ、インチキなりにちゃんとコンパイルする。 So very big, but this one, and the pseudo-respectable compilation. < 1202243643 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :たとえばFizzBuzzならこう。 For example if I FizzBuzz.' < 1202243647 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1202243649 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1202243655 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those japanese chars weren't in my browser. < 1202243659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same person who submitted a genuine entry for the Underload compiler in PostScript? < 1202243673 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure. ysas is the url name < 1202243677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird`, it's worse over here, I ended up with a paste full of mojibake < 1202243691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :) < 1202243705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Underload entry was by yshl, not ySas < 1202243711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's possible that they're the same person < 1202243715 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar name < 1202243717 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess so < 1202243734 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's such a language gap on anagolf, especially with the ruby focus and ruby being the biggest in japan :-) < 1202243765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby vs. Perl is probably the biggest language war in golfing < 1202243778 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ruby's quite a newcomer to golfing though < 1202243781 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's *great* at it < 1202243796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Ruby and Perl are pretty good < 1202243804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which one wins tends to depend on the details of the problem < 1202243810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that war is interesting because it's so close < 1202243856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: does Haskell have an eval? < 1202243864 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's a static, compiled language < 1202243868 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Hugs doesn't have one < 1202243869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 'simple language' to Haskell 'compiler' might work better than compiling into Perl < 1202243873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the syntax is more similar < 1202243886 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could call out to ghc. :-) Unless exec is denied < 1202243892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you denied exec I can't even call out < 1202243909 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aww < 1202243910 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :) < 1202243917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec is usually denied, as it's the default < 1202243920 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, despite haskell's dynamic 'feel', it's very very static < 1202243934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although exec can be useful when testing < 1202243959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while testing that simple language compiler I used recursive calls to perl rather than eval so that error messages came up on stderr < 1202244017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's funny, anagolf's architechture at fisrt appears simple < 1202244021 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you look at the code it's crazy < 1202244026 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the sandboxing tricks and all that < 1202244039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was writing a message about how the sandboxing must be difficult but you beat me to it < 1202244056 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1202244077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity that anagolf doesn't allow 1-byte palindromic quines < 1202244088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because is a palindromic quine in GolfScript < 1202244092 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pc11.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/tech/1173057314/ yours and mine challenges are mentioned near the end :-P < 1202244106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the rest is completely unintelligable, of course. < 1202244116 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you scroll down to 141 it's there < 1202244149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure the page < 1202244154 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1202244157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the links are all mailto: aimed at invalid addresses < 1202244169 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's random wacky 2channel stuff < 1202244173 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stops the thread being bumped. < 1202244173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there seems to be no content other than the challenge names < 1202244182 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on that post, it appears < 1202244190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[all this knowledge re: 2ch is probably useless since i know no japanese] < 1202244199 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[but i know it's the largest bbs in the world, with over 2million visitors a day] < 1202244280 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes in that thread you can work out posts from the ones following it < 1202244291 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, someone mentiones goruby in 122, and then what follows appears to be an implementation of it < 1202244301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a golfing version of Ruby? < 1202244322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised that that has a built-in uudecode, because it must be useful for compressing code into binary < 1202244335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually, uuencode is more commonly useful for that) < 1202244350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, its included in ruby 1.9 < 1202244354 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for No Apparent Reason (TM) < 1202244373 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'make golf' is the best command-line invokation ever, though < 1202244382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cheat BF entry for the uudecode still has me amused < 1202244389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a genuine entry would be shorter < 1202244398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a BoolFuck entry would be shorter still < 1202244526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2ch with wikipedia articles like this, who needs knowledge of japanese? < 1202244541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not any closer to reading that anagolf thread though :P < 1202244638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder how easy it is to do bitwise BF arithmetic? < 1202244755 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard < 1202244774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be easiest to split the number into bits first < 1202244792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that you just need a divide/modulo instruction < 1202244794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or routine < 1202244805 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether, if I find a K interpreter, I could convince shinh to add it to anagolf? < 1202244824 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://golf.shinh.org/langs.html there seems to be one or two propeitery interps there, so it should be ok < 1202244842 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have J and A+ < 1202244845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not write your own non-proprietary reimplementation? < 1202244852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's too comprehensive, K. < 1202244856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because anagolf considers speed too. < 1202244862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is incredibly fast on tons of stuff < 1202244863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the interp si tiny < 1202244867 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fits in lvl1 cache of cpu) < 1202244891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why reimplementing it shouldn't be too difficult < 1202244900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new version probably wouldn't be as high-quality < 1202244909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hopefully wouldn't take very long to write < 1202244935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the library is comprehensive < 1202244946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's proprietary too? < 1202244951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be a problem < 1202244952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, i think < 1202244965 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they offered a free K3 interpreter before, it was just one binary < 1202244967 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all platforms < 1202244969 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(win, linux) < 1202244974 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can find it with google, but yeah < 1202244977 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the binary, that's it < 1202244985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license is it under < 1202244994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's public domain, it might be possible to decompile it < 1202245004 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'all rights reserved' kind of thing < 1202245004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you have the same code for multiple OSs < 1202245011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not possible then < 1202245017 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not legal, certainly < 1202245039 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if k was easier to googlle. :| < 1202245165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, searching via Wikipedia I found a page elsewhere called "K for Joy Programmers" < 1202245172 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nsl.com? < 1202245175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202245180 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stinkin' loops, that's the best k site < 1202245185 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/k/bf.k they have a bf interp and a ->c compiler < 1202245190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the compiler: < 1202245191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c:{`bf.out.c 0:"char m[9999];char*p=m;int main(){",(,/@[256#"";_ic"<>+-.,[]" < 1202245192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::;("--p;";"++p;";"++*p;";"--*p;";"putchar(*p);";"*p=getchar();";"while(*p){" < 1202245192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"}")]_ic x), "}"; `4:"gcc -o bf.out -O3 -w bf.out.c"; `3: "rm -f bf.out.c";} < 1202245233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're working on an Unlambda implementation as well < 1202245243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they certainly seem esolang-aware over there < 1202245246 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.nsl.com/k/befreak.k <-- Befreak in K, *with a gui*... certainly a new implementation would be hel < 1202245248 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1202245264 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/papers/befreak.htm take a look at how comprehensive the gui is < 1202245318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gui isn't very useful for golfing, generally speaking < 1202245323 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1202245329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wouldn't want to impact on MY k experience < 1202245330 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1202245417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1202245422 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cat in unlambda even possible? < 1202245426 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1202245430 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a huge switch table for every 255 char < 1202245455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1202245459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use the | command < 1202245468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, combinator-like action-like object < 1202245492 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1202245562 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1202245607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that K implementation of Unlambda looks excessively long < 1202245622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to get on with writing my Underload/Unlambda/Brainfuck hybrid lang < 1202245651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Unlambda can be trivially compiled into < 1202245657 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The EsCo 9000? < 1202245665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet which can be interpreted simply as well < 1202245692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then combining an Unlambda->Underlambda compiler and an Underlambda interp would give an Unlambda interp < 1202245693 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: want to help me find a k interp for linux? :P < 1202245695 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or windows, i guess < 1202245769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on nsl, but the link seems to be broken < 1202245772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the link from Wikipedia to it < 1202245784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Wayback working for you? It wasn't for me earlier < 1202245798 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, wayback! good idea < 1202245800 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1202245801 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow loading < 1202245830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently slow that my browser timed out when I tried < 1202245851 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1202245852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loaded. < 1202245858 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm telling it to go fish for kx.com < 1202245954 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trying 2005 < 1202245960 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1202245967 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1202245968 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nsl.com/misc/k/ < 1202245971 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's wayback that < 1202246057 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matches < 1202246058 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdfjksdf < 1202246097 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-41-215.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1202246158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, do you think that $/=$] is an abusive way to switch Perl into slurp mode? < 1202246176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a golfing trick I use myself; set the newline separator to the Perl version string < 1202246181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unlikely to be anywhere in the input < 1202246428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202246566 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202246573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1202246575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I miss? < 1202246586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's window manager crashed again < 1202246594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1202246595 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1202246597 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1202246599 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$/=0 < 1202246601 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that shorter < 1202246611 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, that's SCARY ambiguity with a /= b) < 1202246654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not equals is != in Perl < 1202246662 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1202246664 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it stringify 0 ? < 1202246665 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide-equals < 1202246674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not really, because a lone $ always gobbles up the next character at least < 1202246676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that's ok < 1202246680 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no golf challenges have 0 in the info iirc < 1202246682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, 0 is stringified < 1202246684 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1202246686 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1202246687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stringified as its char < 1202246687 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1202246702 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.kx.com/download/download.htm <-- ais523: archives, but inaccessable < 1202246730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's probably a special variable that's undef by default, but I can't be bothered to find out which one when $] works almost as well for this purpose < 1202246759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird`: I'm the sort of person who's idealistic enough to avoid using a language if it doesn't have an open-source implementation I can mess around with < 1202246769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not exclusively < 1202246774 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you owe it to yourself to try k :) < 1202246784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enough to not download closed-source interps for languages like K < 1202246785 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think kx systems have every right to keep it under wraps < 1202246788 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a secret weapon < 1202246807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's really that good, someone should reimplement it < 1202246817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like the dmd/gdc thing < 1202246824 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's k so good? < 1202246831 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really see why.. < 1202246843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: craziness < 1202246845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me a lot of the things I like to look for in a language < 1202246848 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gdc is not a reimplementaiton! < 1202246848 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1202246852 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shares the open source backend with dmd. < 1202246853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't like it as much as ehird`, I think < 1202246859 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just layers it on top of gcc. < 1202246869 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: that and extreme conciseness and *speed* < 1202246871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is the backend, I think < 1202246874 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like J a lot.. I couldn't get into K < 1202246875 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it outperforms c in a lot of cases < 1202246879 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses the dmd backend. < 1202246893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're arguing over which end is the backend and which end is the frontend < 1202246897 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: k is like j, but taken to the logical extreme and then whipped around until it was just that bit faster and shorter < 1202246905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses the 'guts' of dmd. < 1202246912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1202246917 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason dmd isn't open is that the frontend has code by other people. < 1202247008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's Y in k < 1202247009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y:{{x[{x[x]y}[y]]z}[x][{x[{x[x]y}[y]]z}[x]]y} < 1202247016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarg, that's awful < 1202247020 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep! < 1202247025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks better in most syntaxes < 1202247031 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it utilizes the fact that by default 'x,y,z' are your first arguments < 1202247032 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default. < 1202247035 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to name them < 1202247047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but other langs do that as well < 1202247049 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since most k functions take 3 or less arguments, that's probably good < 1202247049 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1202247053 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf.. lol < 1202247054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica uses #1, #2, #3 for instance < 1202247061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pattern doesn't end there < 1202247066 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longer than arc :P? < 1202247075 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: naw, shorter :P < 1202247075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, Mathematica is even worse for excessive brackets < 1202247079 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arc is like java compared to k! < 1202247092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is Java like compared to K? < 1202247113 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this K sounds like a piece of proprietary junk. < 1202247126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: proprietary, but not junk. < 1202247149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks that with enough effort it would be possible to come up with something even smaller and faster < 1202247161 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fn (m) ([_ _] (fn (y) (m [(y y) _])))) < 1202247161 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.230 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202247171 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: sure, but that is in a different style < 1202247175 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do [_ _] and call that < 1202247177 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do that in k too. < 1202247181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/11/14/22741/791 < 1202247187 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably in forth. < 1202247192 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: k is tried and tested, though. < 1202247197 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: forth is not short < 1202247204 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: KDB is used by tons of banks and governments and shiz < 1202247205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or you've just fallen for their advertising < 1202247207 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just plain K is too < 1202247209 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's that long for.. readability? :D < 1202247222 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: naw, kx don't acknowledge k any more < 1202247223 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1202247228 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did research. < 1202247238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1202247243 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.18.81.221 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202247243 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx just updated their home page :| < 1202247286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, during this conversation? < 1202247305 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since yesterday.. < 1202247366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was wondering for a moment if they were monitoring #esoteric so that they could alter their website to fit the conversations < 1202247398 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202247413 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kx-if you're reading me, put up a free k3 trial. thanks < 1202247441 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems, though, that concatentative languages might be the wrong way for conciseness... < 1202247448 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel ninjacode2 is needed! :P < 1202247460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think that? < 1202247466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is quite concatenative-like < 1202247469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just with infix notation < 1202247476 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know what i meant < 1202247477 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1202247491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not strictly, though... because of the monadic/dyadic stuff < 1202247499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1202247511 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems like a really good way to pack code into small boxes < 1202247518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infixness is a way to use two functions on each character < 1202247538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH it makes it considerably harder to create virtual temporary variables < 1202247559 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: personally i think three would be cool < 1202247563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infix,prefix,postfix < 1202247567 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's basically impossible < 1202247571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ambiguous < 1202247575 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a!b is either a postfix, then b < 1202247578 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or infix a, b < 1202247581 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a, prefix b < 1202247594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can handle only two options, but three?! no way ;) < 1202247605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!a! would be just as bad < 1202247608 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1202247616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry EgoBot < 1202247622 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1202247635 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1202247648 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though infix, in itself, is ambiguious < 1202247715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K enforces right-to-left evaluation for some reason < 1202247722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left-to-right is more natural, I would have thought < 1202247725 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the most useful, ais523 < 1202247729 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reduces parens in more cases < 1202247742 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unintuitive, but they have years of practice with that kind of stuff :P < 1202247865 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1202248377 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202248901 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202248992 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-3-245.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1202250068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1202251786 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1202252066 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252329 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252430 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1202252872 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1202253327 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1202253491 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hi < 1202253675 0 :Geekthras!n=Geekthra@c-24-218-46-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1202253985 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1202254015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Pong. < 1202254023 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any thoughts re: pebble2? < 1202254033 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah pikhq? < 1202254033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one ATM. . . < 1202254042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: Yeah? < 1202254055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: From #xkcd, I see. ;) < 1202254063 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1202254118 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1202254513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geekthras: So, what brings you here? < 1202254524 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much < 1202254525 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack < 1202254530 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Geekthras|Dinnar < 1202254978 0 :Geekthras|Dinnar!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Geekthras < 1202254995 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hanging out < 1202255198 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally got around to making a bf compiler < 1202255238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm finally getting around to revising PEBBLE. < 1202255256 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: BTW, I'm thinking of implementing PEBBLE2 in Plof. < 1202255276 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( but .. self-hosting lisp syntax! < 1202255277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1202255309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said what syntax I'd use. < 1202255317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: Plof has a runtime-modifiable syntax. < 1202255477 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, yeah, but .. macros < 1202255479 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and self-hosting < 1202255480 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1202255720 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20041014021225/http://kx.com/cgi-bin/getSoftware_new.pl?klin.zip=y i hope this works :) < 1202255726 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmanit < 1202255727 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1202255781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Plof can have *everything* replaced at runtime. < 1202255797 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good enough! :( < 1202255802 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a self-hosted, lisp-syntax pebble! :P < 1202255806 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should make it. heh < 1202255821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everything except for the PSL semantics, which are about as hard to replace as the machine code on a traditional CPU. . . < 1202255831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've yet to rule out sexp syntax. < 1202255840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1202255907 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, but self-hosting < 1202255907 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P