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03:38:11 <immibis> i think someone's playing age of empires 2 on the gateway computer again .....
03:41:44 <oklopol> anyone wanna write me a fictional debate.
03:42:20 <oklopol> been up all night trying to do my "spoken english" assignments... i've managed to write about 20 lines now.
03:43:01 <oklopol> b)Conscientious objectors are cowards
03:43:01 <oklopol> c)Fewer women than men have won the Nobel prize because women are less intelligent than men
03:43:01 <oklopol> d)Academic education is highly overrated
03:43:13 <oklopol> the missing a) is not due to me.
03:43:29 <oklopol> what are "conscientious objectors"?
03:43:49 <slereah_> They're people objecting the war.
03:45:14 <slereah_> I didn't go to science university for nothing.
03:45:39 <slereah_> I wouldn't be able to develop an imposed idea on any length.
03:46:05 <oklopol> i can show you one of my earlier essays, it's *not* about quality.
03:46:16 <oklopol> We are all gathered here to take a glance at the past three years we spent as a class. It was a journey of hard work, learning and self-discipline, but it was also about togetherness. There are some great stories, and even greater accomplishments, but I'll spare you from them. The end of high-school is the beginning of a new era for everyone, people get jobs and whatnot. Some go to university. Some just wither away in the absense of company and
03:46:47 <oklopol> it doesn't matter at all what grade i get for this shit, it's just i cannot get .
03:47:07 <slereah_> Program something to write it for you.
03:47:45 <oklopol> i thought of that. unfortunately i'd really like to get on the project i thought i'd be doing today
03:47:56 <oklopol> so... would like to get this done quickly
03:48:22 <oklopol> i guess i can write some nonsense
03:49:37 <Sgeo> I suppose people are sick of my in-channel PSOX demo?
03:50:45 <slereah_> You can probably do something else.
03:51:08 <Sgeo> I think I need to change some stuff with servers
03:51:23 <Sgeo> When accepting a server socket connection, give the option of blocking v. non-blocking
03:53:50 <Sgeo> But I think I'll work on it tomorrow
03:54:05 * Sgeo watches as the "tomorrows" built up
03:56:20 <oklopol> Sgeo: make an irc client with brainfuck using PSOX
03:56:34 <Sgeo> oklopol, I'm not that advanced with BF
03:57:18 <Sgeo> oklopol, not yet
03:57:45 <Sgeo> ehird previously said that e'd do a GUI domain, but then decided to make a competing spec, "SOXP"
03:58:17 <oklopol> i don't think ehird cares enough to finish either of those
03:58:39 <oklopol> i might make an irc client in brainfuck, might be fun
03:59:05 <oklopol> shouldn't be that hard to make a telnet client, and after that it's basically just pingponging
03:59:28 <oklopol> making the telnet client shouldn't really be
03:59:34 <oklopol> *anything* if the api is good.
04:06:37 <oklopol> http://www.pastebin.ca/910729 yes, i'm a literary genius.
04:07:37 <slereah_> Are you graded by the quantity of text?
04:09:26 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: how's that? :D
04:09:43 <oklopol> slereah_: i think i'm graded by the overall quality
04:11:34 <slereah_> Man am I glad to be out of high school.
04:11:47 -!- immibis has left (?).
04:11:52 <pikhq> Just a few more months.
04:12:31 <pikhq> A few more months until I have a job, and then a school where I have a hope of learning. . .
04:12:41 <oklopol> well i don't really have anything else left but this one course :)
04:13:20 <pikhq> I've got 6 courses.
04:13:28 <pikhq> Well, 7, if you count my UCCS course.
04:13:37 <pikhq> 3 of the above courses are for college credit.
04:13:48 <oklopol> also one course religion, though, but i'm doing that even less seriously.
04:13:50 <pikhq> And are the only classes I feel like I'm learning anything in.
04:14:01 <pikhq> University of Colorado - Colorado Springs.
04:14:15 <oklopol> i have 3 courses in the uni here
04:15:12 <oklopol> RodgerTheGreat: there's a non-religion option for it, but it's basically the same stuff, just have to go to another building for classes
04:15:12 <pikhq> That disgusts me. . .
04:15:20 <oklopol> no *a* required religion course
04:15:38 <pikhq> I, as a religious person, am offended by the prospect of requiring a religion course.
04:15:50 <pikhq> That's something *highly* personal.
04:16:10 <RodgerTheGreat> I find it frightening that MTU's comparative religion class is taught by a youth pastor.
04:16:20 <slereah_> Religion is by definition a society thing.
04:16:20 <pikhq> What's next: a class on how to be an (anarchist|democrat|republican)?
04:16:22 <RodgerTheGreat> ...who has been known to give extra credit for attending his sermons...
04:16:26 <oklopol> well, it's not about ones own beliefs, i'm openly atheist, and that's no obstactle.
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04:19:11 <oklopol> hopefully that's enough to pass high school.
04:21:34 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd probably say I lean towards atheism, if it weren't for the fact that I'm a pastor myself...
04:32:35 <oklopol> so... anyone here founded a religion?
04:32:41 <oklopol> it's pretty cheap in finland
04:33:45 <slereah_> You know, praying when they come to check on us and all.
04:33:58 <slereah_> And playing ping pong or whatever the rest of the time.
04:34:25 <oklopol> well, we thought we'd start one with a few friends, but there's a chance you might get into media that way.
04:35:06 <slereah_> An interpreter written in Malbolge or raising the dead.
04:35:20 <oklopol> ah, because the media is *never* interested in miracles.
04:35:36 <oerjan> those sound about equivalent...
04:35:51 <slereah_> Well, at least you'd be srs business!
04:36:41 -!- oklopol has set topic: The official church of Esoism..
04:37:23 <slereah_> What will be the esoteric doctrine of the Church?
04:37:23 <oklopol> was the old topic right btw, i didn't store it anywhere :-)
04:37:46 <slereah_> the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang | forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ | EgoBot: !help | wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://ircbrowse.com/channel/esoteric | Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/
04:38:27 <oklopol> esoists believe in esoteric programming.
04:38:36 <oklopol> it's more common a religion than you might think
04:38:54 <slereah_> In what language is the universe written?
04:40:02 <oerjan> we are desperately playing it is not Malbolge
04:41:45 <oerjan> it's written in TwoDucks. the quantum behavior is just a side effect of the incessant time travel
04:44:27 <Sgeo> Anyone want to write a Malbolge IRC client?
04:45:36 <slereah_> Well, I'm no prophet of Esoism.
04:48:07 <pikhq> I plan to award anyone who can pull *that* off the patent title Prophet of Esome.
04:48:17 <pikhq> Even if I have to create a whole new nomic to do it!
04:48:35 <pikhq> oerjan: BTW: I'm also the Herald now.
04:48:46 <pikhq> And I'm done getting offices. Any more, and I'll go insane.
04:49:47 <RodgerTheGreat> I seem to recall discussing a biblically-inspired language called "INTHEBEGINNING"
04:52:26 * oerjan points at ftp://ftp.nvg.ntnu.no/pub/frc/39
04:52:46 <oerjan> (FRC Programming Language round)
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04:53:02 * oerjan notes that the website hasn't been updated since 2000 :(
04:53:18 <pikhq> It's now hosted on Google Groups.
04:53:51 * Sgeo liked reading FRC archives 4+ years ago..
04:59:12 <Sgeo> I knew oerjan was an FRC player
05:00:15 <pikhq> Likewise, he used to be an Agoran.
05:01:22 <oerjan> == erm in norwegian, just about :)
05:08:30 <Sgeo> So I can just use øøø instead of erm?
05:10:07 <oerjan> you may not want to draw it out quite that long.
05:10:52 <oerjan> yy? you say that in finland? :)
05:11:11 <oklopol> y is what it is in norwegian, i think.
05:11:55 * oerjan thinks oklopol is not paying attention
05:12:24 <oklopol> the finnish "y" == the norwegian "y"
05:12:37 <oklopol> and not, i am not, watching american dad and playing the guitar
05:12:58 <oerjan> well approximately i guess. not sure how the finnish y sounds
05:13:31 <oerjan> (beyond being in the approximate right place)
05:13:46 <oklopol> i just know what the swedish one sounds like, and naturally i assume the norwegian one is the exact same ;)
05:13:50 <oerjan> i know german is not exactly like norwegian y
05:14:10 <oerjan> well swedish is pretty close
05:14:44 <oklopol> i guess there might be a subtle difference, but i don't know it.
05:17:22 <oerjan> i mean every swedish vowel is colored by the difference in general intonation from norwegian, i think.
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05:36:09 <oerjan> mind you, if used out of context it is also an expression of stupidity, drunkness or gibbering insanity.
05:46:25 <Sgeo> What is it, exactly? Is there an online definition somewhere?
05:49:31 <oklopol> Sgeo: "er" and "øø" are pronounced the same.
05:49:54 <oklopol> (almost the same, in case someone thinks that's important)
05:53:33 <oklopol> wonder if people always use the øö character for erring
05:54:02 <oklopol> perhaps somewhere in nigeria, people say "wobbity wobbity" when thinking what to say next.
05:54:32 <oklopol> unless they speak english or something in nigeria, i really don't even know where that is exactly
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05:59:40 <pikhq> oklopol: I believe English is one of their official languages.
06:22:00 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm doing some planning sketches for another set of comics- lemme scan them and then you can tell me what you think...
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06:25:29 <RodgerTheGreat> http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488516-art1.png
06:25:32 <RodgerTheGreat> http://rodger.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1203488528-art2.png
06:28:56 <RodgerTheGreat> thoughts? Is the dialogue too heavy-handed? Confusing?
06:30:09 <bsmntbombdood> also, look at this awesomeness -> http://coilhouse.net/2007/12/22/the-beautiful-nightmares-of-zdzislaw-beksinski/
06:37:59 <RodgerTheGreat> where all prices are directly proportional to demand, yet still higher than seems reasonable
06:38:26 <bsmntbombdood> http://www.chetzar.com/oil_paintings/DOUBLEWHAMMY.html
06:42:40 <RodgerTheGreat> in general, it's one of a limited series of copies of an original
06:43:44 <RodgerTheGreat> in the case of things like woodcuts (Escher, for example), the prints effectively *are* the originals.
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07:02:34 <oklopol> i can sell you a quality oko for just $15.
07:02:43 <oklopol> well not now, but after my nap
07:03:20 <RodgerTheGreat> yeah, and I can sell you an original rtg for any price you name!
07:03:58 <bsmntbombdood> i should not have been fidgeting with a large binder clip right by my mouth...
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10:00:28 <uvanta> i'm being forced to learn PHP
10:03:48 <uvanta> i have a file layout, and i should make a PHP class to handle (encode/decode) it
10:04:01 <uvanta> i haven't used PHP at all
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14:27:21 <wildhalcyon> Trying desperately to figure out what language the creator(s) used to code the universe?
14:28:55 <olsner> I think xkcd nailed it in that strip
14:29:27 <slereah_> Yes, but it was no esoteric language!
14:29:53 <olsner> lisp will soon be obscure enough to be esoteric, just you wait
14:30:49 <wildhalcyon> Its been used in legitimate research. PhDs have been earned.
14:30:54 <wildhalcyon> Not likely to be forgotten quickly enough.
14:31:25 <olsner> I bet someone's written a PhD thesis that's in some way about brainfuck or some other esoteric language
14:32:33 <wildhalcyon> brainfuck is probably the most borderline case when it comes to esoteric languages
14:33:11 <slereah_> Well, a number of esoteric languages have roots in serious academic subjects.
14:33:21 <slereah_> But usually in computability, not programmation.
14:35:57 <wildhalcyon> Malbolge from pure evil. Wait, that's not academics. That's earning tenure.
14:37:20 <slereah_> Until he presses the "compile" button.
14:37:46 <wildhalcyon> I'm presuming that he's watching someone else press the compile button in one of the seven circles.
14:38:23 -!- slereah_ has changed nick to Slereah.
14:38:37 <wildhalcyon> "Look at that poor little fellow. He's trying to use NOPs to create predictable instructions. Good thing I've given him some faulty RAM.
14:39:48 <wildhalcyon> So I've been away for quite some time. It looks like PSOX is the new primary discussion topic.
14:41:15 <Slereah> Sgeo isn't giving up at least!
14:42:16 <wildhalcyon> Its a good idea. I had come up with a similar design for my vaporware fungeoid system, but it wasn't multilingual like PSOX is.
14:45:11 <wildhalcyon> But I'm still planning on coming out with my system at some point.
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17:08:22 <Slereah> I wonder how many occurences of the <ord "fuck" you'll find on the esowiki
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17:37:44 <oerjan> hm google is useless for this - -fuck site:esolangs.org/wiki/ gives fake hits
17:38:38 <oerjan> perhaps because it includes pages linked to...
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17:50:14 <Slereah> Does any esolang got some logo?
17:53:38 <Slereah> I tried to make one for Lazy Bird, but I'm not just very talented.
17:53:53 <oerjan> a lambda in a red would seem an obvious choice...
17:54:52 <wildhalcyon> most esolangs aren't organized enough to have logos
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17:56:13 <oerjan> the page ais523 maintains still doesn't show up when googling intercal
17:56:17 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: PSOX seems like the kind of thing that would have a logo. /sigh
17:56:52 <ais523> oerjan: I don't maintain it, Claudio Calvelli does
17:57:00 <ais523> I just maintain one of the compilers featured there
17:57:15 <ehird`> Slereah: make it a bird, falling out of the sky (symbolized by the whooshing above it)
17:57:21 <ehird`> with a lambda in a cross on its side
17:57:49 <oerjan> esr's page comes up on top and it seems to be unupdated for a long time - no reference to you that i notice
17:58:32 <ehird`> oerjan: esr's page is also crap
17:58:32 <ehird`> (crap? from esr? shock horror)
17:58:37 <Slereah> It was actually just going to be two mockingbirds in front of each other, with an omega in between
17:59:28 <ehird`> Slereah: I am now drawing the worst logo ever
17:59:48 <Slereah> ut save your strength for PSOX
18:00:11 <Slereah> There's probably an awesome logo to be made for PSOX
18:00:21 <Slereah> Like a tiger with a baracuda for a penis, who knows
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18:02:58 <ehird`> Slereah: your logo is almost done.
18:06:21 <ehird`> Slereah: it's, uh, quite rough
18:06:28 <ehird`> but i think it looks alright, for 5 minutes
18:06:54 <ehird`> haha, it looks way fatter than it was meant to
18:06:57 <ehird`> and quite a bit angrier
18:07:14 <ehird`> Slereah: shall I add it to the wiki? :P
18:07:31 <Slereah> I'd be angry too if I was stuck in an infinite loop!
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18:08:59 <ehird`> Slereah: oh. oops. :P http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_Bird
18:09:05 <ehird`> some weird grayness around the edges
18:09:12 <ehird`> i think it looks hilariously ridiculous
18:09:29 <Slereah> Plus, Lazy Bird supports lambdas!
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18:12:22 <ehird`> .... personally i think it was awesome
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18:14:32 <Slereah> Well, while I do not agree with your opinion, I'll fight to the death for your right to express it!
18:14:43 <ehird`> Slereah: Express it by putting it on the page?
18:17:38 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: Slereah is restricting my free speech to put my crappy lazy bird logo on its page
18:17:55 * oerjan asks, is it a bird or a whale? >:)
18:18:26 <wildhalcyon> ehird': I'd debate whether or not a logo counts as speech.
18:18:44 <Slereah> No, I'm well happy with hate crimes
18:18:52 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: Shush you
18:18:57 <ehird`> I could put text on the logo if you like
18:19:10 <ehird`> oerjan: you're thinking of Active Whale
18:19:33 * oerjan notes that no other Image: namespace article seems to be a logo
18:20:15 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: But the text would be there to cover up for the logo. Duh.
18:20:20 <ehird`> Oops, did I say that out aloud?
18:21:17 <oerjan> he's got a banana in his ear
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18:22:16 <wildhalcyon> Banana? Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?
18:23:37 <oerjan> not at all, this is ancient:
18:23:50 <oerjan> "Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."
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18:28:28 <ehird`> you know the boehm gc?
18:28:37 <ehird`> well, what if you built a version that exported malloc as GC_malloc, etc,
18:28:41 <ehird`> then used LD_PRELOAD..
18:28:45 <ehird`> and used everyday apps with it
18:30:15 <oerjan> this is new? i barely thought i'd heard it could be used with unmodified programs (with a risk of space leaks if it misidentifies pointers)
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18:30:57 <oerjan> or does your suggestion imply something more...
18:32:02 <ehird`> oerjan: well, mostly it means you'd patch the code
18:32:08 <ehird`> but i mean, right after the kernel
18:32:14 <ehird`> so that everything, absolutely everything uses it
18:32:55 <oerjan> probably someone tried
18:33:17 <oerjan> it _could_ break horribly if someone saves pointers in a different format for some reason
18:35:35 <ehird`> oerjan: imagine a PL implementation with a gc
18:35:38 <oerjan> say adding tag bits or similar. ghc does that
18:35:56 <ehird`> (least-sig bit = is-small-int?)
18:36:11 <ehird`> oerjan: but they have their own gc
18:36:32 <oerjan> yes, but they _might_ use ordinary malloc for initial allocation
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19:18:12 <wildhalcyon> Are there a couple folks in here willing to rate my project idea on a scale of 1 to 10?
19:18:41 <Slereah> Though my rating won't be fair, accurate, or based on experience.
19:19:04 <wildhalcyon> I'm not really looking for fair or accurate. Experience-based might be useful, but not necessary.
19:19:12 <Sgeo> wildhalcyon, want to see a PSOX demo?
19:19:57 <Slereah> We want to see a PSOX logo!
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19:20:18 <Sgeo> re wildhalcyon
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19:20:31 <BrainF> Hi all. This client is written in Brainfuck (albeit written with a generator), believe it or not. It uses PSOX. You can get information about PSOX at http://esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX .
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19:22:31 <ais523> (sorry, I was in the channel before but not paying attention until now)
19:22:43 <wildhalcyon> Excellent. More people to horrifically mutilate my idea until I'm a poor shadow of the man I used to be!
19:23:59 <Slereah> Well, we're always glad to help
19:24:29 <ais523> wildhalcyon: what is your project idea?
19:25:26 <wildhalcyon> My project is a fungeoid which can be partitioned into a grid-based system of processors, either self-controlled or locally controlled, rather than controlled from a centralized source.
19:25:44 <ais523> that does sound interesting, actually
19:25:58 <ais523> I tend to prefer fungeoids to store data in the program near the IP
19:26:11 <ais523> and you're taking that to one possible logical conclusion
19:26:20 <ais523> (although you should get the IP to store data nearby as well)
19:26:54 <wildhalcyon> Well, essentially the IP meta-data would reside in the control system, in a separate space.
19:27:38 <wildhalcyon> I would use the fungeoid to develop two meta-projects: The first is an autonomous autoprogramming system that would write itself new code on the fly.
19:28:38 <wildhalcyon> The second is a shared virtual codespace where users could rent/own/have a parcel of the codespace an interchange IPs/data/code with one another, and outputting to shared media - such as a chatroom or drawing board.
19:30:04 <ehird`> continuation based websites are a 'done thing'
19:30:16 <ehird`> any ideas for IP finding in be your funge?
19:30:28 <ais523> oerjan: INTERCAL doesn't have a logo AFAIK
19:30:44 <ais523> but neither are very good
19:30:59 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: instruction pointer
19:31:08 <ehird`> be your funge is like fuk yor brane
19:31:09 <wildhalcyon> I know what the IP is, what do you mean by "finding" it?
19:31:13 <ais523> ehird` is planning a language like FukYorBrane, but based on Begune
19:31:35 * ais523 hit return rather than backspace
19:31:50 <ais523> but Begune does sound quite good, yes
19:32:03 * Sgeo wants to see more stuff designed for PSOX
19:32:05 <ais523> unfortunately it isn't 3am so maybe that typo can't be used
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19:34:17 <ais523> the first idea was that you could put special characters in your own program, which could somehow sense the opponent's IP going past on the other side of the program
19:34:33 <ais523> and when your own IP went past them, its action depended on whether the opponent's IP had since last time yours did
19:34:55 <ais523> for instance, imagine the two programs being on the outside and inside of the same torus
19:35:12 <ais523> and the special characters being a sort of barrier that could be pushed into or out of the torus
19:35:57 <ais523> one contiguous block of characters (that is, where each character in the block is a 4-neighbour of at least one other block) would be pushed into or out of the torus as a group
19:36:26 <ais523> whenever the opponent's IP goes past a block that started on your side, it pushes it to your side (without changing the behaviour of the opponent's IP)
19:36:28 <wildhalcyon> I'd like to see FukYorBrane offer some "special" rules in the A-Z character range.
19:36:59 <ais523> whenever yours reaches a block that started on your side, it pushes it to the opponent's side, and if it was on your side to start with the IP rebounds
19:37:36 <ais523> the other idea was simply to specify an area and ask if the enemy's IP is within that area, so you can do things like bsearch for it
19:37:48 <ais523> the first idea is more interesting IMO but I'm not sure how useful it would be
19:37:52 <ehird`> neither really seems esoteric enough
19:37:55 <ehird`> fukyourbrane's is good
19:38:02 <ehird`> you don't need a lot of searching logic, but it isn't trivial either
19:38:13 <ais523> the first one seems pretty esoteric to me
19:38:39 <ehird`> but impractical and hard
19:38:46 <ehird`> but since it's 1d, it's easier
19:38:58 <wildhalcyon> Oh, its 1D huh? Yeah, that's a tad easier I suppose.
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19:39:53 <ais523> and FYB has a 'loop while my data pointer is different from the enemy's instruction pointer' instruction
19:40:10 <wildhalcyon> I think it might be interesting if it was a 2xINF tape.
19:46:14 <ehird`> nginx contains some REALLY bad ideas..
19:46:15 <ehird`> http://wiki.codemongers.com/NginxHttpEmptyGifModule
19:46:28 <wildhalcyon> So, on a scale of 1 to 10 how would you folks rate my project?
19:46:56 <ehird`> (come on, this is #esoteric. what did you expect?)
19:47:21 <ais523> ehird`: I remember when there was a 1x1 transparent GIF used on Wikipedia for a while as part of the IE PngFix
19:47:25 <wildhalcyon> I'm fine with imaginary and complex numbers, but after figuring the magnitude, it comes out to only.. 2 :-(
19:47:44 <ehird`> ais523: I am pretty sure in nginx it's designed for the 1-pixel padding gifs
19:47:48 <ais523> something went wrong with it in the end, and they took it off that script; I'm not sure what exactly, nobody was sure at the time
19:47:48 <ehird`> used along with <table> and <font>..
19:48:07 <ehird`> but then, nginx is russian and designed for amazing performance on huge websites and all of the top russian websites have terrible html like that..
19:48:26 <ais523> but some people thought it was because the image was requested so often that the servers got confused
19:48:28 <ehird`> wildhalcyon: Naww. It's slightly above two. Or below.
19:48:32 <ehird`> No, wait, below is -i.
19:48:41 <ais523> 2i is somewhat above 0
19:48:51 <ais523> on a typically-axed Argand diagram
19:49:05 <ais523> you could draw the axes diagonally and have 2i above 2 if you liked
19:49:09 <Slereah> It is also not between 1 and 10
19:49:20 <ehird`> if you pinch one and ten between your fingers
19:49:23 <ehird`> the complex numbers are there
19:49:47 <ais523> even if it were above 2, you'd only get it if your fingers had a width of at least 2
19:49:55 <ais523> probably 4 so they were symmetrical about the x-axis
19:50:10 <Slereah> That's okay, ehird` has sausage fingers.
19:52:19 <Sgeo> hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy my rice and curry, so hurry hurry hurry. Hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy one for two, special price for you
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19:53:05 <Sgeo> hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy my rice and curry, so hurry hurry hurry. Hurry hurry hurry, buy my rice and curry, buy one for two, special price for you
19:53:09 <Sgeo> http://youtube.com/watch?v=dTiMV1Vv1Tw
19:53:26 <Slereah> http://youtube.com/watch?v=g09gOh2qwug
19:55:44 <Sgeo> Slereah, obviously that person knows which species on Earth is the smartest..
19:56:05 <Slereah> A ball of twine with mice ears?
19:56:26 <ehird`> Slereah: look around you is brilliant
19:56:40 <Slereah> I learned many things from it!
19:56:55 <ehird`> the largest number is, in fact, around 4 billion
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19:57:15 <Slereah> Well, some suspects that larger numbers might exist.
19:57:34 <Sgeo> Somehow I failed to connect "Look Around You" from that YT page with Look Around You..
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19:58:15 <ais523> the largest number is in fact 4294967295
19:58:27 <ais523> 4294967296 is in fact smaller
19:58:54 <ehird`> ais523: integer wrap around is fun
19:58:54 <ais523> the worrying thing is that I have 2^32 memorised...
19:59:27 <Slereah> "Around 4 billions" is good enough
19:59:41 <Slereah> My memory starts running short at 8096
20:00:11 <Slereah> Yes, I only have 2^13 bits of memory
20:00:35 <ais523> you mean either 4096 or 8192
20:00:42 <ehird`> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Slimmingpicture.jpg D'AAAAAAH!
20:00:52 * ehird` should stop making lame Look Around You references
20:00:54 <Slereah> Well, my memory isn't even that good
20:00:54 <ais523> and I only know up to 2^16 and 2^32
20:01:32 <Slereah> I usually use some little pseudo song I learned when I was little
20:01:34 <ais523> if 2^17 is 131072, then I know up to 2^17 and 2^32
20:01:40 <Slereah> I discovered that it was useful!
20:01:54 <ais523> (that was from memory too, but I'm not sure it's correct
20:01:54 <Slereah> Something like "One and one, two, two and two, four, four and four, eight...3
20:02:13 <Slereah> That's how I do fucking binary
20:02:21 <ehird`> I know basically no powers of two
20:02:58 <ais523> most esolangers know 256 and 65536, or should do
20:03:34 <ais523> 59049 is also worth knowing, but that's a power of 3
20:03:35 <ais523> (maximum value of the main data type in TriINTERCAL and Malbolge)
20:03:35 <Slereah> Well, useful when you're programming in Malbolge!
20:03:35 <ehird`> oh, i know 256 and 65536
20:03:52 <Sgeo> I know up to 2^13 counting on my fingers, and know of 65536
20:04:07 <Slereah> How many fingers do you have?
20:04:28 <ais523> one question I once asked at a maths camp: what's the largest prime you can write in decimal from memory?
20:04:33 <Sgeo> First finger 2^1, second 2^2, etc
20:04:50 <ais523> (the 'in decimal' prevents you memorising a formula but not its expansion as a number)
20:05:37 <Sgeo> I didn't know 65537 was a prime, tbh, but that should be easy to remember
20:06:01 <wildhalcyon> Alternatively, 65539 is also prime, but that's incidental
20:06:10 <habnabit_> I'd say 65,536 is the largest power of two that's easy to remember.
20:06:12 <Slereah> Is it end-of-file in fuckingbigASCII?
20:06:33 <ais523> wildhalcyon: thanks, I now have a new largest memorised prime number
20:06:41 <ehird`> i don't know any primes :(
20:06:56 <ehird`> generally i let a computer tell me what they are... i have not had much use for memorizing them
20:08:32 <Sgeo> ..Who'd need to hesistate in saying that 7 is prime?
20:09:26 <ehird`> http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/hacks/factor.c I use this for factoring stuff
20:09:30 <ehird`> probably factor(1) is far more efficient
20:10:06 * Sgeo goes to find some LAY video to watch
20:10:10 <Sgeo> Any recommendations?
20:10:23 <Sgeo> Look Around You
20:10:30 <ais523> BTW, why is factor in GNU coreutils
20:10:31 <Sgeo> Since we were talking about it just before
20:10:43 <ais523> it strikes me as being a bit specific-purpose to be there
20:10:43 <Slereah> I recommend the first season.
20:10:44 <ehird`> ais523: 'cause gnu utilities are clusterfucks of non-designedness? :p
20:10:50 <Sgeo> Slereah, yes yes
20:10:53 <ehird`> Slereah: and the computer episode of the second
20:11:09 <Sgeo> I remember the Sulpher one having some cool stuff
20:11:22 <ehird`> hmm, factor.c is kind of crappy..
20:11:26 <ehird`> it only handles unsigned longs
20:11:28 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0dyvoVV5Tk Look Around You - Sulphur
20:12:00 <ehird`> that darius guy is crazy
20:12:02 <ehird`> http://www.accesscom.com/~darius/hacks/ichbins.tar.gz
20:12:14 <ehird`> a scheme->c self-hosting compiler written in around 6 pages of scheme
20:12:17 <ehird`> a lot of which is the c prelude
20:12:50 <ehird`> it's more lispy than scheme
20:16:14 <Sgeo> In the magnet experiment, did the heating of the magnet ruin it, preventing it from attracting the iron, or something?
20:16:48 <Sgeo> Or is it not real iron, or was the magnet weak anyway?
20:20:57 <Sgeo> It would be nice if it was read
20:21:54 <Slereah> Even the HELVETICA EFFECT?
20:22:22 <Slereah> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY7XH2ulTEU
20:22:58 <Sgeo> That's Calcium, not really connected to Sulphagne
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20:25:16 <Sgeo> "Man has been using Iron since the Stone Age
20:25:53 * Slereah tries to bend a spoon with the power of his imagination
20:28:26 <Sgeo> I guess Bumcivillian isn't to useful for going to sleep, if its effect diminishes quickly
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20:35:25 <Slereah> So it would be... between 9AM and 5AM?
20:36:13 <Sgeo> if that's what you mean
20:36:27 <Slereah> Hm. It seems I forgot how to do substraction.
20:36:27 <Sgeo> "Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin"
20:36:37 <Slereah> Bah, who needs substraction when you have a computer!
20:37:31 <Sgeo> "Or if you can fly, planning your trajectory for your journey to work"
20:39:43 <Sgeo> The finale takes place in Nottingham on April the 4th of September
20:41:36 * Sgeo wants some Garry Gum
20:41:50 <Sgeo> and Anti-Garry Gum
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20:58:04 <Sgeo> Bye wildhalcyon
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21:11:41 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers/Dinosaurs.jpg
21:12:04 <Slereah> The perfect representation for transformation groups.
21:12:42 <GregorR> <Sgeo> "Man has been using Iron since the Stone Age" // what's this from?
21:12:53 <Sgeo> GregorR, Look Around You
21:13:14 <Sgeo> Or you could have googled
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21:18:36 <Sgeo> GregorR, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdZHnDDjf6w
21:32:10 <Slereah> Makes me think, I never finished my Peano calculator
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22:09:41 <ehird`> Is there a Redivider implementation yet?
22:35:10 <Slereah> Hm. That µ thingy is bothersome for I/O.
22:37:58 <Slereah> Well, it's not that bothersome
22:38:07 <Slereah> But since I'm pretty horrible at coding, it is.
22:38:57 <ehird`> i will agree with that
22:39:10 <ehird`> and, ask in #python on how to read files in unicode
22:39:25 <Slereah> What that got to do with unicode?
22:39:36 <Slereah> When I say µ, I mean µ recursive functions
22:40:20 <Slereah> It's time for some pen and paper coding, I do believe.
22:40:27 <Slereah> I can't code without paper.
22:40:29 <ehird`> I thought you meant outputting µ.
22:40:36 <ehird`> lazy bird use monads for IO yet?
22:40:41 <ehird`> it will make all your troubles disappear
22:41:00 <Slereah> I slacked quite a bit these past weeks
22:41:00 <Slereah> I still haven't read Haskell
22:41:26 <Slereah> I've got a hard time staying focused on something.
22:50:02 <Slereah> Hm. Wonder if I'll have to use monads too for µlambda
22:53:50 <Slereah> Damn those functional languages!
23:17:53 <Slereah> Is the µ function even computable in a general case?
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23:26:16 <Slereah> "Definition of the unbounded μ operator in terms of an abstract machine"
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23:35:50 <ehird`> hey -- who here is interested in Be Your Funge?
23:36:09 <Slereah> I'll be your funge for a dollar 99, wink wink
23:36:52 <Slereah> µ function : µyf(y, x1, x2, ...) = smallest value of y such that f(stuff) = 0
23:36:57 <Slereah> Or 0 if no such value exists.
23:38:01 <Slereah> That's why I'm scratching my head.
23:38:16 <ehird`> why? its uncomputable, get over it
23:38:34 <Slereah> Well, it's supposed to be part of the holy trinity of the recursive functions.
23:38:41 <Slereah> The first system to be Turing complete.
23:39:24 <Slereah> What are you trying to tell me!
23:39:28 <ehird`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_operator
23:39:41 <ehird`> is written in kind-of-assembly language
23:39:41 <ehird`> so that should be easy
23:40:37 <ehird`> uhm, that's pretty light readin'
23:40:39 <Slereah> But yeah, I suppose it is.
23:43:16 <Slereah> "The unbounded μ operator will continue this attempt-to-match process ad infinitum or until a match occurs."
23:44:46 <olsner> "ad infinitum" - sounds like the seed of turing completeness
23:45:18 <Slereah> Well, as long as it doesn't need to check if y actually exists, I guess I'll be okay.
23:45:21 <ehird`> Slereah: So it doesn't halt until it finds one; and loops forever if there is none.
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23:48:33 <Slereah> That Lazy K dude was onto something with that referential transparency!
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23:55:56 <Slereah> If I use sum Monads, will I be able to read each function lazily ?
23:56:42 <Slereah> With the current idea, it seems like a lot of bothers.
23:56:58 <Slereah> And I can't rely on the combinators nice one-argument-each
23:57:04 <ehird`> Slereah: Monads allow you to do everything lazy.
23:57:21 <Slereah> Then I'd better go back on Haskell
23:57:23 <ehird`> Because the nature of the functions that run them create data dependencies
23:57:30 <ehird`> so that the evaluator is forced to evaluate the IO stuff in sequence
23:58:31 <Slereah> I'll pretend to understand and go read the tutorial.