←2008-03-07 2008-03-08 2008-03-09→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:00:00 <ais523|sl_busy> that looks right
00:00:35 <SimonRC> hmm, you remarked exactly at midnight
00:00:44 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: hmm...
00:00:46 <ehird> {{ {{ S1| K | S }} | K }}
00:00:50 <ehird> that's what it thinks SKSK is
00:00:57 <ehird> I think I need more {{ }} ing of partially evaluated forms
00:01:07 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: S, S1, S2, K, I are my templates
00:01:34 * Sgeo has gotten MW pages to contain text that you can't put in directly, and that resaving with no changes change the page..
00:02:10 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: I definately have a weird bug
00:02:10 <ais523|sl_busy> Sgeo: I know at least two examples of that, but they're both bugs according to the devs
00:02:11 <ehird> {{ {{ K | hello }} | world }}
00:02:12 <ehird> -->
00:02:19 <ehird> {{ I| hello | world }}
00:02:27 <ehird> Oh, of course.
00:02:29 <ais523|sl_busy> that's not a bug
00:02:31 <ehird> Hmm, wait..
00:02:35 <Sgeo> {{{subst:ns:0}}{some_template}}
00:02:36 <ais523|sl_busy> that's just MediaWiki marking characters as literal
00:02:41 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: Ah.
00:02:42 <ais523|sl_busy> they don't magically deliteralise
00:02:44 <ehird> So I need your trick?
00:02:46 <Sgeo> erm wait
00:02:48 <ehird> (What was it, again?)
00:02:55 <ais523|sl_busy> ehird: I already explained that it doesn't work
00:03:15 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: OK. So should I just give up, or is there hope?
00:03:24 <ais523|sl_busy> well, I just gave up last time I tried
00:03:46 <ais523|sl_busy> I don't think a simple method will work, because you can't just insert | marks into the middle of templates remotely
00:03:51 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: Trying your {{!}}
00:04:05 <Sgeo> I think the bug that I used was fixed
00:04:11 <Sgeo> or maybe not a bug
00:04:35 <ehird> {{ {{ {{{1}}} {{!}} {{{3}}} }} {{!}} {{ {{{2}}} {{!}} {{{3}}} }} }}
00:04:51 <ehird> {{{{{{{1}}}{{!}}{{{3}}}}}{{!}}{{{{{2}}}{{!}}{{{3}}}}}}} funnier without whitespace
00:04:52 <ais523|sl_busy> Sgeo: you can do it by trying to subst a non-existent page
00:05:18 <ais523|sl_busy> also note that a user was once banned by Arbcom, partially for setting their signature to ~~~~ (but for other more serious reasons too)
00:06:14 <ais523|sl_busy> although I admit that it was an ingenious thing to do
00:06:22 <SimonRC> wht happens if your sig is ~~~~ ?
00:06:30 <ehird> SimonRC: when other people edit the page it becomes their sig
00:06:32 <ehird> think about it
00:06:37 <SimonRC> cool
00:06:40 <ehird> mw substs user->sig on ~~~~
00:06:46 <ehird> if user->sig = ~~~~
00:06:50 <ehird> it puts ~~~~ on the page
00:06:52 <ais523|sl_busy> it's not as simple as that
00:06:53 <ehird> when edited, it sees ~~~~
00:06:54 <ais523|sl_busy> but I can't remember why
00:06:55 <ehird> and substs user->sig
00:07:02 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: because sigs are interp'd for wikicode
00:07:04 <ais523|sl_busy> and I think it may have changed over time
00:07:04 <ehird> but yeah, basically.
00:07:11 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: anyway, I cannot think how to make my templates work
00:07:13 <ais523|sl_busy> ehird: there are sig filters nowadays
00:07:16 <ehird> if you have any ideas I'd really like to hear them :)
00:07:48 <ais523|sl_busy> I don't have enough of one
00:08:13 <ais523|sl_busy> it may be possible to do clever things using = on Parser_OldPP, but I don't think that's sufficient for this
00:08:59 <ehird> hmm
00:09:01 <ehird> what is =
00:09:05 <ehird> oh
00:09:05 <ehird> yes
00:09:07 <ehird> keywording
00:09:09 <ehird> hey, that's a good idea..
00:09:14 <ehird> I mean
00:09:16 <ais523|sl_busy> it's for named parameters
00:09:21 <ehird> if we say that we have args x, y, z for S
00:09:21 <ehird> then
00:09:23 <ais523|sl_busy> and yes, you can have a param called 1 or 2 if you like
00:09:36 <ais523|sl_busy> which has interesting interactions with numbered params
00:09:41 <ehird> S = S1|x{{{1}}}{{{2}}}
00:09:43 <ehird> and 1 must be =
00:09:49 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: actually i have no idea how i could utilize that
00:09:49 <ehird> heh
00:10:14 <ais523|sl_busy> I don't either
00:10:23 <ais523|sl_busy> although I used it for Wiki Cyclic Tag for list parsing
00:10:34 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/FURscript if this had a call procedure command I think it would be turing complete
00:10:38 <ehird> due to lambda calculus hackery
00:12:10 <ais523|sl_busy> [DIRFORMAT="DIRECTORY","BYPASSSECURITY?"] FORMATS A DRIVE AND ASKS WHETHER TO BYPASS ALL RESTRICTIONS
00:12:34 <ais523|sl_busy> I like how it formats the drive beforehand
00:12:35 <ais523|sl_busy> and then asks the user whether it should have done
00:12:58 <ais523|sl_busy> luckily it doesn't say which drive is formatted, so as long as I have a floppy disk I may be alright
00:14:06 <ais523|sl_busy> hmm... there are three comments requesting deletion on the talk page of that page
00:14:19 <ais523|sl_busy> one of them is mine, though, so it would be inappropriate for me to delete it myself
00:14:22 <ehird> don't delete it
00:14:24 <ehird> its hilariously bad
00:14:35 <ehird> btw
00:14:36 <ais523|sl_busy> write that onwiki, so your opinion is preserved?
00:14:36 <ehird> http://pastebin.ca/932888
00:14:41 <ehird> SKI mediawiki thingy
00:14:47 <ehird> a simple statement of the problem
00:14:51 <ehird> so it's easier to think about it
00:15:07 <ais523|sl_busy> ehird: MediaWIki blocks template loops anyway
00:15:18 <ais523|sl_busy> so... why not just restart by hand, like with my cyclic tag interp?
00:15:32 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: Because the more automatic, the cooler.
00:15:36 <ehird> We want mini programs in MW pages!
00:17:18 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: Hmm
00:17:18 <ehird> {{ {{{1}}} | {{{1}}} }}
00:17:20 <ehird> called with itself
00:17:23 <ehird> returns a link to the template
00:17:28 <ehird> is that how it handles inf loops?
00:17:30 <ais523|sl_busy> yes
00:17:36 <ais523|sl_busy> it makes them into links rather than transclusions
00:17:53 <ais523|sl_busy> if you do it with subst, you get a little HTML comment in the output saying there was a loop
00:18:06 <ais523|sl_busy> hmm... I wonder if it's visible in view source with the nonsubst version?
00:18:33 <ehird> {{ subst: {{{1}}} | {{{1}}} }}
00:18:35 <ehird> how do i make that work
00:18:36 <ehird> :|
00:18:55 <ais523|sl_busy> it isn't easy, although I managed it once
00:19:06 <ais523|sl_busy> it involved editing the template once it had already been set up
00:19:24 <ehird> I don't get what you're saying
00:19:24 <ehird> :p
00:19:29 <ehird> I tried to make /SKI be that
00:19:33 <ehird> but it just puts that literally.
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00:23:01 <ais523|sl_busy> ehird: do you want me to clean up the mess you've created now, or are you still having fun messing around with it?
00:24:49 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: not sure
00:29:25 <ais523|sl_busy> an interesting PDF I just came across: http://www.tcs.ifi.lmu.de/~gruberh/data/fun07-final.pdf
00:29:32 <ais523|sl_busy> it's about esoteric sorting algorithms
00:29:43 <ais523|sl_busy> (that is, ones which are so bad they wouldn't be used in practice, like bogosort)
00:30:29 <SimonRC> wasn't there a website about those
00:30:41 <SimonRC> like intelligent-design sort?
00:32:51 <ais523|sl_busy> the paper manages to optimise bozosort (which is itself twice as efficient as bogosort) to O(n^3 log n) running time
00:34:03 <SimonRC> odd that it's more efficient
00:37:30 <ais523|sl_busy> "the number of values a bit can have is small" -> another choice Wikipedia quote
00:37:38 * SimonRC wonders what the correct form of "yours truly" to refer to himself is, when he is talking to himself
00:37:48 <SimonRC> "mine truly"?
00:37:54 <lament> ais523|sl_busy: not as small as it could be!
00:37:56 <SimonRC> ais523|sl_busy: lol
00:38:00 * lament likes halfbits
00:38:15 <SimonRC> sqrt(2) values
00:38:26 <SimonRC> ISTR they exis in QM
00:38:35 <ais523|sl_busy> wow, we seem to have been having a lot of TURKEY BOMB discussions later
00:38:41 <ais523|sl_busy> although this one is in disguise
00:38:43 <SimonRC> and probably in other information theories
00:38:45 <ais523|sl_busy> s/later/lately/ two lines ago
00:39:03 <SimonRC> has anyone tried to implement TB?
00:39:14 <ehird> SimonRC: yes
00:39:21 <ehird> ais523 and I have a project to do so ongoing
00:39:23 <SimonRC> where?
00:39:38 <SimonRC> are you implementing it as a programming language or a drinking game?
00:39:42 <ehird> but finding meaningful values you can stuff into fractions of a bit is hard; you can pad the field to the nearest byte but you can't store anything meaningful in it.
00:40:43 <ais523|sl_busy> SimonRC: it's ehird's project, but they keep trying to credit me with it
00:41:25 <SimonRC> you mean s/credit/smear/?
00:41:27 <SimonRC> :-)
00:41:30 <ais523|sl_busy> (which is incidentally the difference between the BSD and MIT licences; BSD disallows other people crediting you for their work)
00:41:46 <SimonRC> BTW, anyone know about DISC profiles?
00:41:49 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: nooo
00:41:51 <ehird> ais523|sl_busy: I meant
00:41:53 <ehird> you tried to implement it
00:41:56 <ehird> and I am ongoing
00:42:00 <ais523|sl_busy> I didn't get all that far
00:42:07 <SimonRC> I seem to be the classic high D+C
00:42:15 <ais523|sl_busy> although I did generate some useful ideas, and the TCness definitions
00:42:26 <ais523|sl_busy> (at least, it has TC control flow, not sure about data structures)
00:42:28 <lament> we need more quantum languages
00:42:46 <ais523|sl_busy> Quantum INTERCAL turned out to be a cheat; it's actually just a form of multithreading
00:42:48 <SimonRC> the usual one seems to be the raw equations
00:42:56 <ais523|sl_busy> which are an esolang by themselves
00:43:10 <ais523|sl_busy> we need quantum TwoDucks!
00:46:13 <lament> halfbits in particular deserve more attention
00:46:58 <ais523|sl_busy> is it possible to write numbers in base 1/sqrt(2)?
00:47:02 <SimonRC> maybe, any collection that comes to a total of n bits can store a number from 0 to ceil(2^n)-1 ?
00:47:27 <SimonRC> ais523|sl_busy: ITYM sqrt(2)
00:47:32 <SimonRC> and if so, yes
00:47:53 <SimonRC> most numbers have multiple representations
00:48:08 <ais523|sl_busy> well, why can't I have a number system with a negative number of digits available?
00:48:25 <ais523|sl_busy> or at least, a number of digits somewhere between 0 and 1
00:49:50 <lament> heh, ternary arithmetic:
00:49:51 <lament> A base-three system is used in Islam to keep track of counting Tasbih to 99 or to 100 on a single hand for counting prayers (as alternative for the Misbaha). The benefit —apart from allowing a single hand to count up to 99 or to 100— is that counting doesn't distract the mind too much since the counter needs only to divide Tasbihs into groups of three.
00:50:22 <SimonRC> wow
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01:39:37 * SimonRC goes to bed.
01:40:47 * ehird doesn't. Ever.
01:41:51 <Sgeo> How do I killall sound or killall flash stuff?
01:42:29 <Sgeo> This is rather urgent, I'm going batty
01:42:41 -!- Corun has joined.
01:43:03 <ehird> Sgeo: Speakers. Mute them.
01:43:17 <Sgeo> But I want to be able to hear other sound
01:43:27 <faxathisia> reboot o_o
01:43:30 <Sgeo> Just not this sound that is stuck and I can't seem to kill it
01:43:35 <Sgeo> faxathisia, is there any other way?
01:44:34 <Sgeo> What's the thing that GNOME uses for sound?
01:45:18 <Sgeo> I think it's using HALD
01:45:23 <Sgeo> I can't kill that, can I?
01:45:45 <Sgeo> killed
01:45:51 <Sgeo> And that sound is STILL playing
01:45:53 <faxathisia> what is difficult about rebooting..?
01:46:35 * Sgeo will reboot
01:47:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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01:51:40 * Sgeo is obviously back
02:01:22 <faxathisia> did that work?
02:04:53 <Sgeo> yes ofc
02:05:02 <Sgeo> But I want to know what process I could have killed to fix it
02:06:00 * Slereah is less obviously back
02:15:39 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/kernel.tar.bz2
02:16:56 <Sgeo> Does it support PSOX? </blatant-and-random-self-promotion>
02:17:38 * Slereah sees the future.
02:17:44 <Slereah> "Would you like it to?" :o
02:20:10 <ehird> Sgeo: Hardly random. Your self-promotion is deterministic: the constant function true.
02:20:36 <Slereah> "Please be kind to our operators: they may not be very intelligent, but they're all we've got."
02:20:37 <Slereah> Heh.
02:21:01 <Sgeo> Slereah, eh?
02:21:11 <Slereah> I'm reading the INTERCAL dow
02:21:13 <Slereah> *dox
02:36:17 <pikhq> Sgeo: It doesn't even have *processes*. ;)
02:36:18 <pikhq> (yet)
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02:59:35 <Sgeo> pikhq, will it eventually support Python?
02:59:49 <Sgeo> btw PSOX 1.0 spec not finalized, that will come with b1
02:59:52 <Sgeo> PSOX 1.0b1
03:12:01 <GregorR> Hahahah, apparently there's a #jesus on FreeNode X-D
03:12:16 <GregorR> Now 100% F/OSS! Download jesus-prealpha-0.1.tar.gz today!
03:12:40 <Slereah> "Turn to Jesus ASAP. It's the only way to escape hell! He's paid the price for your crimes, now come and collect your ticket.."
03:12:42 <Slereah> Lul
03:18:57 <pikhq> Sgeo: Well, it may eventually support POSIX.
03:19:16 <pikhq> By providing enough system calls to support a port of Newlib, of course.
03:31:42 <Sgeo> Newlib?
03:40:22 <Slereah> I'm trying to think up of some language based on set theory, but there's the incompleteness theorem posing problems :o
03:50:37 <pikhq> Newlib is a small, simple libc by Red Hat, meant for embedded systems or initrd's.
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04:32:56 <calamari> uclibc
04:34:52 <calamari> err uClibc, sorry :)
04:42:51 <pikhq> calamari: Isn't that harder to port?
04:43:05 <calamari> probably
04:43:08 <pikhq> Newlib is trivial.
04:43:26 <pikhq> 'Provide these functions, and link them with newlib. Voila, you've got newlib working.'
04:45:29 <Sgeo> G'night all
04:45:31 <calamari> http://www.busybox.net/lists/busybox/2005-March/013759.html
04:46:25 <pikhq> :)
04:47:02 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:17:44 <bsmntbombdood> i missed the orgy :(
06:18:17 <pikhq> Apparently.
06:18:33 -!- pikhq has set topic: bsmntbombdood missed the orgy. | Fe fi fo funge, I smell the brainfuck of an Englishman. | pastebin - http://pb.eso-std.org/.
06:49:49 <Slereah> http://www.erbzine.com/mag17/1744.html
06:49:51 <Slereah> :D
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08:51:35 <faxathisia> Hello
08:52:15 <Slereah> Hi.
08:52:48 <Sukoshi> Hi.
08:53:28 <Slereah> Sukoshi is a cat program :o
08:53:38 <Sukoshi> I am?
08:53:42 <Sukoshi> Oh :D
08:53:44 <faxathisia> someone in ##c is telling me to cast isupper/toupper and lower :(
08:53:55 <faxathisia> I'm like no.. that's not a requirement
08:54:14 <Sukoshi> Indeed. Your mom is the requirement!
08:54:18 <Sukoshi> (Hah.)
08:54:21 <faxathisia> lol
08:54:25 <faxathisia> I'm not saying that...
08:55:06 <Sukoshi> Situation:
08:55:44 <Sukoshi> I have admin access to a block of machines behind a Cisco router which I have some access to, but not enough time to explore. Ports may or may not be open to the outside, which ones, I am not sure of yet.
08:56:01 <Sukoshi> Objective: Create a system backdoor.
08:56:08 <Sukoshi> Ideas?
08:57:06 <Slereah> Can I save a whole bunch of money by switching to Cisco?
08:57:22 <Sukoshi> That depends on the state of your finances.
08:57:38 <Sukoshi> And in which direction the wave function collapses when observing.
08:58:28 -!- Judofyr has joined.
08:59:47 <faxathisia> Sukoshi: If you can't serve on any of them (due to nothing forwarded) you could just run deamons on them which ping HTTP connects, POSTing the results of exec`ing whatever was on the page
09:00:15 <Sukoshi> Yep. Which was the idea I was thinking of.
09:00:17 <faxathisia> It's a pretty ugly solution so it fit's whatever you're doing :P
09:00:59 <Sukoshi> I am fomenting a proletariat revolution.
09:01:18 <Sukoshi> The means of production shall be robbed from the capitalists and nationalized into the hands of the People.
09:01:20 <Sukoshi> (Not.)
09:01:36 <Slereah> Can it wait? My Guy Fawkes mask still hasn't arrived.
09:01:41 <Sukoshi> Nah.
09:01:53 <Sukoshi> I need more top hats, see.
09:01:58 <Sukoshi> So the capitalists must fall now.
09:03:19 <faxathisia> Sukoshi: alternatively if they run any PHP server just stick a system($_GET['foo']) somewhere, easy to beam a shell though
09:03:23 <oerjan> hah, who shall produce the top hats if not the capitalists? besides everyone knows only capitalists wear top hats
09:03:30 <Slereah> Capitalists don't wear top hats anymore.
09:03:35 <Slereah> Look at Ron Paul!
09:03:44 <faxathisia> (that might be wrong .. I probably forgot PHP)
09:03:52 <oerjan> they do in North Korean films. they are the truth, you know!
09:03:57 <Sukoshi> faxathisia: No PHP here.
09:04:07 <Sukoshi> Not that I know PHP.
09:04:13 <Slereah> Do they also sport big moustaches?
09:04:26 <Sukoshi> I can't have a mustache unless I get hormones.
09:04:31 <Sukoshi> I don't really want hormones :\
09:04:37 <Sukoshi> But I still want a top-hat, see.
09:04:48 <oerjan> probably. they are also fat and drink a lot of whisky.
09:04:53 <Slereah> Why, you a girl?
09:04:54 <oerjan> iirc
09:04:57 <Sukoshi> Yes.
09:05:10 <Slereah> So there are girls on esolangs!
09:05:13 <Sukoshi> Indeed.
09:05:21 <Slereah> What's your esolang?
09:05:26 <Sukoshi> BF.
09:05:34 <Sukoshi> For winz and justicez.
09:06:25 <Sukoshi> I wish these bloody Congressional amendments were easier to find.
09:06:52 <faxathisia> Sukoshi: Are you still using smalltalk? or something else?
09:07:21 <Sukoshi> faxathisia: I wish I had the *time*, really.
09:07:28 <faxathisia> aw..
09:07:41 <Sukoshi> But when time does open up (and it will), I will do more of it!
09:09:18 <Sukoshi> I've been busy with the Calc III.
09:09:40 <Sukoshi> Well somewhat busy anyway. This weekend my (somewhat self-assigned) homework will start the actual Calculus.
09:09:45 <faxathisia> Sukoshi: Have you seen a proof that √2 exists? :D
09:09:50 <Sukoshi> o_O?!
09:09:54 <Sukoshi> Link plz !!!
09:09:59 <faxathisia> I have it was so awesome
09:10:42 <Sukoshi> Link!
09:10:45 <Sukoshi> Wow, that sounds awesome.
09:11:06 <Slereah> Is... this your proof? http://us.metamath.org/mpegif/sqr2re.html
09:11:56 <Slereah> You have to click on each step, and then the steps of the steps for the actual proof from ZFC axioms
09:12:08 <Sukoshi> .....
09:12:16 <faxathisia> y = x^2 is continuous on [0, 2).. so it has a solution for y = 2, by ....
09:12:30 * faxathisia (tries to find the name of this theorem)
09:13:01 <Sukoshi> Definition of Continuity?
09:13:09 <Sukoshi> Oh wait. :P
09:13:12 <faxathisia> aha! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_value_theorem
09:13:19 <Sukoshi> IVT?
09:13:25 <faxathisia> Bolzano Weierstrass
09:13:28 <Sukoshi> Ohhhh.
09:13:34 <Sukoshi> Hah. Interesting. Interesting.
09:13:44 <Sukoshi> But you can use that for most any irrational number.
09:13:46 <Slereah> It be that the two limits at a point are equal, and equal to the function at this point :o
09:13:47 * faxathisia hisses at Set theory
09:14:25 <Slereah> Ø : THE EMPTY SET DOES NOT APPROVE OF YOUR HISSING
09:14:30 <Sukoshi> But irrationals are real ... LOL WUT FAILZ
09:14:55 <faxathisia> lol
09:15:13 * faxathisia thinks.. (How can I get Sleareah into Type Theory..)
09:15:28 <Slereah> Hell, I got into set theory by type theory!
09:15:35 <Slereah> Because type theory is horrible
09:15:39 <Slereah> At least the PM type theory.
09:15:55 <Sukoshi> I got into ... electrical engineering ...? :P
09:16:19 <Slereah> But most of the PM is horrible : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/14.01.jpg
09:16:29 <Slereah> Russell doesn't know dick about making nice notations.
09:16:42 <Sukoshi> That reminds me of my friend's (whose coursework I'm self-studying) extra-credit problem with 4d spheres.
09:16:50 <faxathisia> hmm never heard of PM
09:17:00 <Slereah> Principia Mathematica
09:17:20 <Slereah> Quite the masterpiece, really
09:17:33 <Slereah> But it's really hard to read, with the notation conventions
09:17:42 <Sukoshi> o_O
09:17:47 <Sukoshi> Someone who hasn't heard of PM?!
09:17:48 <faxathisia> fun fact: if you make a cube length and put a sphere with radius 1 at one the corners.. the center of the cube is not inside the sphere
09:17:59 <faxathisia> for some dimension... higher than 3 .. I forgot which
09:20:01 <faxathisia> oh
09:20:05 <faxathisia> I heard of Principa..
09:20:12 <faxathisia> have not read it yet
09:20:26 <Slereah> You can have it for free!
09:20:27 <Sukoshi> Hey, anyone here up for a game of Nomic in parallel with an evolving Prolog mirror?
09:20:31 <Slereah> It has 0 copyright!
09:20:55 <oerjan> It has copyright on 0 - it proved it existed
09:21:22 <Slereah> http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/54.jpg <- trhar
09:21:39 <Slereah> (/\ is the old "empty set" notation)
09:21:45 <Sukoshi> No Nomic/Prolog? Awww :|
09:22:06 <faxathisia> Sukoshi: What is your intrest in Prolog?
09:22:09 <Slereah> Forgot what theiota means
09:22:12 <oerjan> the sphere exactly touches the cube center for n=4
09:22:25 <Slereah> Ew. Balls are touching.
09:22:28 <oerjan> sqrt(4*(1/2)^2) = 1
09:22:34 <Sukoshi> faxathisia: I miss it lots.
09:22:50 <Sukoshi> I've been programming bare bones stuff for the longest time ... and Prolog is what I crave, heh.
09:23:15 <Slereah> A friend of mine told me that mercury is moar awesome for logic programming.
09:23:21 <Slereah> Never tried though
09:23:57 <Sukoshi> Well, there are many Prolog implementations out there, and it's widely understood.
09:24:05 <Sukoshi> So maybe it's more convenient. Depending on what yer after.
09:24:33 <faxathisia> I don't know..
09:24:42 <faxathisia> I don't think mercury is that wonderful
09:25:01 <Sukoshi> Prolog is wonderful.
09:25:13 <Sukoshi> I haven't given Mercury the nod over though, so I dunno.
09:26:28 * Slereah has some retarded idea for a logical language
09:26:47 <Slereah> But I'm not sure it's even somehow feasable.
09:26:53 <oerjan> wouldn't that be ... illogical?
09:27:18 <Slereah> Only time will tell!
09:28:08 <Sukoshi> (Only your mom will tell.)
09:28:39 <Slereah> Zing!
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11:18:44 <Slereah> Was there anything TC between the analytical engine and Schofinkel's combinators?
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13:53:34 <oklopol> Slereah: you mother, i'm sure
13:53:37 <oklopol> *your
13:53:43 <oklopol> r r brokens.
14:22:18 <Slereah> My mother wasn't born :o*
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15:05:56 <faxathisia> Slereah: What are Schofinkel's combinators
15:06:25 <Slereah> Regular combinators.
15:06:35 <faxathisia> like S and K?
15:06:39 <Slereah> And they were created by Schonfinkel
15:06:44 <faxathisia> but just any set which are TC?
15:06:50 <Slereah> In 1920.
15:07:03 <Slereah> There was S and K back then, yes
15:08:04 <faxathisia> cellular automata aren't turing machines are they?
15:08:42 <Slereah> They're TC.
15:08:52 <Slereah> Well, they can be at least.
15:08:59 <Slereah> Although I think CA are more 60's.
15:09:04 <faxathisia> I don't think I get your question
15:09:19 <faxathisia> what does it mean to be between e analytical engine and Schofinkel's combinators?
15:09:35 <Slereah> I was wondering if anything happened between 1890 and 1920
15:09:40 <faxathisia> Ohhhh
15:09:47 <Slereah> The analytical engine was TC, combinators are.
15:10:07 <Slereah> I was wondering if there's anything between the two
15:10:09 <Slereah> Or if there's a 30 years gap
15:11:13 <ihope> The analytical engine was 1890?
15:12:26 <Slereah> 1842
15:12:45 <Slereah> Or something
15:15:09 <ihope> What was in 1890, then?
15:16:23 <Slereah> "“The Analytical Engine”, paper by Major-General Henry P. Babbage (Charles Babbage's son), read at Bath on September 12th, 1888; published in the Proceedings of the British Association, 1888"
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15:50:02 <Slereah> Is there a table for INTERCAL's unary operators?
15:50:15 <Slereah> I don't understand the manual
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16:09:01 <ihope> What are its unary operators?
16:10:33 <Slereah> and, or and xor
16:10:36 <Slereah> (yes, unary)
16:15:51 <ihope> Doesn't it do a bit shift left and then and/or/xor or some such?
16:16:47 <Slereah> From what I understand, it takes the number, uses pairs of 'em and put the result on the first bit of the pair
16:17:23 <Slereah> Although from the examples, I can't tell.
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16:35:56 <ehird> hello
16:36:03 <faxathisia> Hi
16:36:15 <ehird> :)
16:47:25 <ehird> Cheese.
16:47:35 <faxathisia> You know Prolog?
17:01:48 <ehird> Kind of.
17:02:07 <faxathisia> (to-derive (append x '() x))
17:02:07 <faxathisia> (to-derive (append (cons x xs) y (cons x zs))
17:02:07 <faxathisia> (append xs y zs))
17:02:14 <faxathisia> acceptable syntax?
17:10:38 -!- Judofyr has quit.
17:11:06 <ehird> faxathisia: no
17:11:11 <ehird> verbose.
17:11:14 <ehird> Try this
17:11:24 <ehird> (-> append x '() x)
17:11:45 <ehird> (-> append (| x xs) y (| x zs) (append xs y zs))
17:12:00 <ehird> (the extra parens are superflouous, and you really need short names to make prolog readable)
17:12:24 <faxathisia> the arrow is the wrong way :P
17:12:36 <ehird> faxathisia: no
17:12:43 <ehird> it's a statement ->
17:12:49 <ehird> -> is pointing to the truth
17:12:58 <ehird> you're DEFINING what append is
17:13:12 <ehird> faxathisia: Unicode!
17:13:18 <faxathisia> unicode :o
17:13:18 <ehird> Like this:
17:13:46 <ehird> (? append x '? x)
17:13:52 <faxathisia> omg lol
17:13:56 <faxathisia> it's ?'s
17:14:02 <faxathisia> arg
17:14:03 <ehird> err
17:14:03 <ehird> wait
17:14:04 <ehird> (? append x '? x)
17:14:12 <ehird> was using the norweigen oerjan-o instead of the empty set symbol
17:14:12 <ehird> heh
17:14:16 <ehird> faxathisia: i'll screeny
17:14:17 <faxathisia> can you send it in UTF-8?
17:14:20 <faxathisia> oh ok
17:14:25 <ehird> and no, i don't know how to tell xchat aqua to be undumb
17:14:51 <faxathisia> you have to set the option in Server List/Show Details/Connect Options
17:14:58 <ehird> and then reconnect?
17:15:04 <faxathisia> yeah
17:15:22 <ehird> faxathisia: i'll jsut screeny then
17:15:23 <ehird> :p
17:15:33 <ehird> yay for Skitch which makes it all nice 'n quick
17:16:02 <ehird> faxathisia: http://img.skitch.com/20080308-tabpr4jgrbrx8q85sk8k95yfqi.png
17:17:17 <ehird> faxathisia: it's awesome
17:17:18 <ehird> :p
17:17:22 <ehird> well
17:17:26 <ehird> You could use the |- unicode symbol
17:17:29 <ehird> For more pretentiousness
17:17:31 <ehird> But I like mine
17:17:42 <ehird> faxathisia: Write a mode for $EDITOR that transforms -> into the right symbols for it!
17:17:50 <ehird> or just one that has a command to insert a definition
17:18:11 <faxathisia> hmm.. yeah .. I should learn to write emacs modes
17:18:22 <ehird> ?-C ===> (? |name| )
17:18:29 <ehird> |...| is overwrited
17:18:30 <ehird> by typing
17:18:37 <ehird> then a tab or something goes onto the arglist
17:18:44 <ehird> () transforms into that O
17:20:08 <faxathisia> yeah, I think I steall pretty-lambda from schemem mode to do that
17:21:49 <ehird> faxathisia: Um, may I suggest you avoid aligning things in this mode..
17:21:55 <ehird> Unicode characters are proportional, in most monospace fonts.
17:22:01 <ehird> E.g. that /O is wider.
17:22:01 <faxathisia> yeah that sucks :?
17:22:14 <ehird> faxathisia: But everyone knows proportional fonts for coding rawk, if the font's good.
17:22:16 <ehird> BE REVOLUTIONARY
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17:31:42 <ehird> Judofello.
17:31:52 <ehird> (Thanks, Judofyr. Thudofyr.)
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17:34:11 <Judofyr> ehird: Hello :)
17:41:22 <ehird> BREAKING NEWS -- IDIOT FOUND ON INTERNET
17:41:24 <ehird> 'Well, I think that a programming language has to be Turing-complete to be considered a programming language.'
17:41:28 <ehird> UPDATE AT 11
17:41:37 <faxathisia> bullshit.
17:41:49 <faxathisia> oh
17:41:54 <faxathisia> I:D
17:41:59 <ehird> faxathisia: reddit is such fun
17:42:04 * faxathisia did not notice 'IDIOT"
17:42:16 <ehird> it was far better before they switched to python
17:42:17 <ehird> :p
17:42:21 <ehird> it was like
17:42:33 <ehird> 'Oh cool, it's like a site where - OH MY GOD IT'S LISP I BETTER LEAVE THE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE ALONE'
17:42:42 <ehird> 'Oh, it's written in Python? Am gud with Python! HAY GUYZ'
17:42:46 <faxathisia> :D :D lol
17:42:58 <faxathisia> It's true
17:44:03 <ehird> faxathisia: of course the latest iteration of the site sucks a lot less than lispit :)
17:44:23 <ehird> lisp (good) -> web.py (sucks, because web.py is terrible) -> pylons (awesome)
17:44:31 <ehird> I don't personally like Pylons but it sure makes reddit nice
17:45:41 <faxathisia> not seen reddits code
17:46:09 <faxathisia> looks pretty trivial if you know dhtml or whatever they do that stuff with
17:49:07 <ehird> faxathisia: uhh
17:49:12 <ehird> reddit is written in dhtml now?
17:49:25 <faxathisia> I don't know :P
17:49:33 <ehird> faxathisia: DHTML is a javascript thingy.
17:49:38 <ehird> Reddit is a whole site.
17:49:42 <faxathisia> I mean you just need some javascript and the rest is trivial
17:49:45 <ehird> ...
17:49:49 <ehird> http://reddit.com
17:49:59 <ehird> the only JS used is optional, and for the fancy reply box thingies.
17:50:56 <ehird> Anyway, reddit isn't open source, you couldn't look at its source if you wanted to.
17:51:04 <faxathisia> :S
17:51:23 <ehird> faxathisia: do you even.. know what reddit is
17:51:31 <ehird> why did you imply that reddit is mostly javascript?!
17:51:35 <ehird> that makes NO SENSE
17:52:03 <faxathisia> lol
17:52:16 <ehird> faxathisia: seriously, WTF
17:52:22 <fizzie> Why does this disuccsion remind me of a train wreck?
17:52:30 <faxathisia> I'm not up with the latest web 2.0
17:52:36 <ehird> highlight what major part of reddit you believe to be javascript?!
17:52:45 <ehird> fizzie: faxathisia's driving, I guess.
17:52:46 <faxathisia> but I could write reddit except for the dynamic HTML stuff
17:52:59 <ehird> you could write it, but not all its features.
17:53:05 <faxathisia> exactly
17:53:08 <ehird> e.g. the rating algorithm.
17:53:18 <ehird> which is very finely tuned over years of, you know, loads of traffic.
17:53:39 <ehird> Theorem: Just because the interface to something is simple, does not mean that the thing itself is simple or easily replicated.
18:01:34 <Judofyr> ehird: Does you know what Judofyr means?
18:01:49 <Judofyr> Do*
18:04:41 <ehird> Judofyr: noes.
18:04:45 <ehird> I was just quoting Look Around You
18:04:58 <Judofyr> fyr = guy in norwegian :)
18:05:05 <Judofyr> it's sort fo Karate Kid :P
18:05:10 <Judofyr> of*
18:05:16 <ehird> Thanks, ${name}. Th${name[first_vowel(name)..]}.
18:07:47 <ehird> faxathisia: by the way
18:07:55 <ehird> I had this crazy crazy idea last night
18:07:56 <ehird> but it's really long
18:08:02 <ehird> and i don't wanna flood #esoteric
18:08:08 <Judofyr> Thaxathisia?
18:08:10 <faxathisia> what's it about?
18:08:18 <ehird> faxathisia: an esolang
18:08:20 <ehird> but it's not just a language
18:08:23 <Judofyr> :O
18:08:24 <ehird> it's.. ahrd to explain
18:08:29 <Judofyr> try
18:08:32 <ehird> #nodist, i'll explain there
18:08:34 <ehird> its long
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18:40:33 <pikhq> Hey, oerjan.
18:41:20 <ehird> Hey, pikhqoerjan.
18:42:36 <oerjan> 'evening
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19:16:10 * SimonRC thinks of a privacy escalation: pty-grabbing. If someone runs sudo from a pty, then sudo usually caches their ability to use sudo there for about 5 mins. There might be a way to exploit this to escalate local to root.
19:19:32 <ehird> SimonRC: there is
19:19:45 <ehird> this is why you configure sudos timeout to 0
19:29:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there?
19:30:14 <AnMaster> my funge98 interpreter in bash does get to the end of mycology, with a few BAD though, but it doesn't die
19:31:08 <AnMaster> oh and quite a few N/A
19:31:53 <AnMaster> (as it does no fingerprints at all, and therefore currently reflect on all fingerprints :/)
19:32:50 * AnMaster is going to write a full Befunge98/08 interpreter in C later
19:34:12 <AnMaster> bbiab
19:40:16 * SimonRC admires type theory notation
19:41:00 <SimonRC> I don't want readability in my math. I want a hugely complex slightly ugly pile of symbols for maximal intimidation effect.
19:41:18 <SimonRC> intimidate the muggles!
19:43:28 <ehird> SimonRC: Most people would agree, sans the 'type theory' part.
19:43:32 <SimonRC> Slereah: what are these "Schofinkel's combinators"?
19:43:39 <ehird> s///ing it with 'maths'
19:43:47 <SimonRC> ah, nm, I just saw
19:44:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw a question: in the mycology readme, at each extension is listed a hexdecimal number, what is it for?
19:47:47 <ehird> AnMaster: its fingerprint code
19:47:55 <ehird> which is the 4 ascii chars concatted together in hex
19:49:45 <SimonRC> yes
19:49:54 <SimonRC> that is the algo given in the F98 spec, ISTR
19:50:16 <SimonRC> though F98 has some allowance for longer codes, doesn't it?
19:50:21 <ehird> SimonRC: I just kind of know what the relation to a 32-bit number and a four-character code will be instinctively.
19:50:25 <ehird> So much stuff uses it. :-)
19:50:32 <ehird> It's like BCD, except it's ASCII Coded Hex
19:53:26 <AnMaster> ehird, ahah
19:53:29 <AnMaster> aha*
20:04:05 <GregorR> <ehird> It's like BCD, except it's ASCII Coded Hex
20:04:12 <GregorR> So, it's the same in that ... it's coded.
20:04:43 <ehird> GregorR: <_<
20:06:39 * SimonRC is surprised to find out that most of the humanoid furry things on Sesame street are left-handed
20:07:55 <ehird> SimonRC: It's a conspiracy
20:09:08 <oerjan> obviously they come from a mirror world
20:09:31 <oerjan> they are refugees - the only ones that were not evil and had goatees
20:09:40 <ehird> oerjan: hahah
20:09:59 <ehird> #esoteric is great
20:10:01 <ehird> :p
20:10:08 <ehird> hmm, one more subdomain I need -- http://qdb.eso-std.org/
20:11:58 <SimonRC> ehird: actually, the theory I was reading was that they originated from an island near India, and were brought to NY by a circus (at the time that such things were popular) which failed and abandonned them,
20:12:05 <ehird> SimonRC: ..
20:12:12 <SimonRC> http://www.erbzine.com/mag17/1744a.html
20:12:16 <SimonRC> (part 2 of 3)
20:12:36 <SimonRC> read part 1 first, I recommend
20:12:37 <ehird> thats a parody
20:12:38 <ehird> yes??
20:15:42 <SimonRC> yes
20:16:00 <SimonRC> the style's called "ha ha only serious"
20:16:01 <oerjan> IT'S THE UNTARNISHED TRUTH YOU HEAR
20:16:13 <ehird> SimonRC: it's incredibly hard to detect
20:16:13 <ehird> :)
20:16:24 <SimonRC> they are taking serious thinking tools to a silly question
20:16:33 <ehird> speaking of which i need a new fscking mighty mouse, I can't use my current one because the teflon got scratched to hell so it grinds along
20:16:42 <ehird> but I am *dying* without expose & 3d smooth scrolling
20:17:47 * ehird is a spoilt mac luser
20:18:00 <oerjan> i thought "ha ha only serious" meant a joke that was more serious than it appeared
20:18:05 <ehird> oerjan: kind of
20:18:23 <ehird> imagine a post making ridiculously overboard statements about windows
20:18:29 <ehird> but the basic concept behind them is actually true in windows
20:18:38 <oerjan> not using a serious style to investigate something foolish, but rather the reverse
20:18:46 <ehird> yes
20:18:54 <ehird> I think the essence of 'ha ha only serious' is that to truly define it properly, you need to utilize it
20:19:05 <oerjan> so i fail to see how anything about muppets can qualify :D
20:19:07 <ehird> which creates somewhat of a bootstrapping problem when nobody well-versed in using it proficiently is to hand
20:19:52 <oerjan> clearly it needs to be taught from kindergarten
20:20:02 <ehird> yes
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20:23:38 <SimonRC> hehehe "Indeed, if we look at transcripts of Sesame Monsters speech, it is remarkable how transparent it is. Sesame Monsters are almost obsessively focused on the sorts of tasks or skill sets that a frugivore needs to find food - They are fascinated with the difference between one thing and another, with distinguishing objects from groups, they're obsessed with timing, with location, with finding, with counting."
20:24:13 <ehird> func.func_globals = MiniFluff(func.func_globals)
20:24:13 <ehird> TypeError: readonly attribute
20:24:17 <ehird> my hacks are foiled!!!!!
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20:30:43 * oerjan hacks at your foils
20:36:13 <SimonRC> ehird: what is that?
20:37:25 <ehird> SimonRC: me tryingh to do evil
20:37:35 <SimonRC> what evil?
20:37:38 <SimonRC> Python?
20:37:42 <ehird> Pythonic evil
20:37:57 <ehird> specifically, i'm trying to change a function's closure
20:38:13 <ehird> i have managed to do that now, but am unable to pass arguments to the function I get out
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21:03:15 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
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21:23:01 <ehird> hmm
21:23:06 <ehird> i think Nodist's operations may be halting-problem
22:37:10 <SimonRC> what is Nodist?
22:39:11 <ehird> SimonRC: someone who has #nodist logs will give you the explanation i gave
22:40:37 <SimonRC> the explanation you gave? You didn't explain it to me
22:41:28 <oerjan> IT'S NEKKID PROGRAMMING
22:41:35 <bsmntbombdood> hawt
22:41:47 <SimonRC> ehird: and why are you trying to modify a function rather than adding __call__
22:41:50 <ehird> SimonRC: I did in #nodist
22:41:55 <SimonRC> ah, ok
22:41:57 <ehird> and because the function was given to me
22:42:01 <ehird> and yes, i know that's horrid
22:42:03 <ehird> i was just feeling evil
22:42:06 <ehird> I was evil-golfing the code
22:42:10 <SimonRC> ah, ok
22:42:12 <ehird> (try to add as much evil as possible)
22:42:24 <SimonRC> did you get it to work?
22:42:27 <ehird> nope
22:42:28 <ehird> :)
22:43:03 <oerjan> ehird has no talent for evil
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22:43:11 <ehird> shitcakes
22:43:13 <ehird> who just asid what
22:43:28 <ehird> oh and SimonRC http://rafb.net/p/fW8hqI64.html
22:43:47 <oerjan> i was insulting you behind your back
22:44:07 <SimonRC> we said, for one time only, the meaning of life
22:44:31 * ehird hits ircbrowse.com
22:48:21 <SimonRC> that makes a bit of snese
22:48:31 <SimonRC> but it seems some of the conversation is missing
22:49:45 <oerjan> darn, urbandictionary has a definition for snese
22:50:08 <oerjan> the verb, though
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