%DATA%' < 1205615864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but if original IP spawns again... then it would be slower < 1205615880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it looks like obfuscated HTML < 1205615881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie if all splits happen from main thread, or if all happens from each new child < 1205615898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that is html < 1205615901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with template crap around it < 1205615921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki markup probably does much the same thing and looks much better than that < 1205615923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh another thing, should the thread ID reported by y stay unique? as in, should it just be index into thread array, or some soft of unique index? < 1205615927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the html is also amusingly 1996 < 1205615932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was developed for livejournal < 1205615935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& lj still uses it. < 1205615935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that persists during the entire program < 1205615945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, the architechture of lj is very simple.. < 1205615951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are lots of perl files < 1205615952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wouldn't that been it was full of tags, frames, and weird JavaScript designed to look flashy? < 1205615956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/been/mean/ < 1205615957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the actual webpages are php-style bml < 1205615961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with embedded perl < 1205615965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure, it might have mattered for some fingerprint or something < 1205615970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the site may look modern nowadays < 1205615972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's just a skin.. < 1205615982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but what one do CCBI do? standard doesn't say anything about it < 1205616002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think with CCBI they're 64-bit and unique... but I'm not sure < 1205616029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and the livejournal software requires ROOT ACCESS to set up < 1205616033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's almost as fiddly as slashcode < 1205616038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, 64-bit? I thought data typed used was 32-bit, so if you spawned 2^31 you would get issues? < 1205616045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1205616053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know I have no idea < 1205616055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it does, officially < 1205616059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as y couldn't return it in a single data cell < 1205616073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beats me, okay? look at the source. :-P < 1205616084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh ok < 1205616095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's really crazy < 1205616129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.sixapart.com/trac/livejournal/browser/trunk < 1205616136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw what does ! mean in D? as in new Stack!(Semantics); < 1205616143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a directory named 't' < 1205616143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1205616149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stack!(foo) -> Stack < 1205616150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ < 1205616151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's generics < 1205616154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or teamplates < 1205616156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1205616157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you wish to call em < 1205616172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I've used generics in C# yes so I know what they are < 1205616186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just used foo syntax there < 1205616194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoaaa.... livejournal uses INLINE C! < 1205616195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.sixapart.com/trac/livejournal/browser/trunk/src/utf8.pl < 1205616221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: C's a compiled language usually, so I'm not sure if that even makes sense < 1205616249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Inline::C < 1205616254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it compiles it out from a string < 1205616256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very popular.. < 1205616260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm suprised you don't know of it < 1205616263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very useful < 1205616269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... yeah. in a blog software?! < 1205616285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's mouse just came apart
< 1205616305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, heres the big glob of bml http://code.sixapart.com/trac/livejournal/browser/trunk/htdocs < 1205616305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've snapped it back together; the battery cover keeps coming off < 1205616305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, does it compile it once in a temp dir or what? < 1205616306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much < 1205616308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's clever < 1205616309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ie, how does it work, does it fork() to run the code? < 1205616316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Inline-0.44/C/C.pod < 1205616322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1205616323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clever < 1205616324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Inline-0.44/C/C.pod < 1205616325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't read perl :( < 1205616367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's documentation < 1205616368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1205616376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1205616378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And now on People Who Comment Before Clicking Links..) < 1205616394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I clicked, but dns server is slow today < 1205616402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's still loading < 1205616412 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:24:04] ehird, I can't read perl :( < 1205616412 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:24:46] AnMaster: that's documentation < 1205616415 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotelicious :D < 1205616437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1205616443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: that'll be on the qdb :p < 1205616753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, crap, i'm starting to want to code stuff in perl < 1205616757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WTF did you do to me < 1205616774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe that should be in the qdb too < 1205616785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ironically the thing i'm wanting to code in perl is the qdb. < 1205616786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1205616802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is good for some things, bad for others < 1205616818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my first choice for anything rewriting-related, unless Thutu would be a resonable choice < 1205616831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, i'm not being silly and reusing perl webdev stuff < 1205616833 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1205616843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most i'll use is CGI/CGI::Fast and some DB stuff < 1205616843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1205616847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and a template engine < 1205616852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is the Internet rather centralized? < 1205616858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just you. < 1205616879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, does perl have anything built on DBI so i don't have to use SQL? < 1205616880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are root servers, and there also has to be some organization assigning IP addresses at the top < 1205616883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has stuff like: < 1205616891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db.select("users", name="foo") < 1205616901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a hash back < 1205616912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also ORMs but i'm not sure about any of perl's oo systems < 1205616946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't IANA basically control IP addresses and domain names? < 1205617163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1205617168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1205617397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stabs his code
< 1205617409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite fork < 1205617413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for unknown reason < 1205617467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: within the program, or did you just forkbomb your computer? < 1205617480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, within the interpreter < 1205617483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ttttttttttttttttttttt < 1205617485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1205617487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on mycology < 1205617489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION debugs
< 1205617680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eso-std.org should use shell scripts. < 1205617688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durable! ;) < 1205617698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god... cgi.sh library :D < 1205617725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forces your script to take parameters like ?a;b;c because sh doesn't have hashes :) < 1205617796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not that surprising, really < 1205617802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they could emulate them < 1205617817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that has eval and allows arbitrary variable names that can escape the eval can emulate hashes ;) < 1205617885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant, it would be hilarious to have a module like that < 1205617891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1205617894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean it doesn't exist yet? < 1205617896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using md5?! :D < 1205617904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stores in $GET__sdfs98dfu98su4knjfd < 1205617920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: $(hash GET foo) < 1205617921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1205617937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hashing using an actual cryptographic hash function strikes me as a neat mix of concepts < 1205617948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :header () { echo -n "$1: $2\r\n" } < 1205617950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quite < 1205617961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason i said it is because you can trivially get an md5 from the shell < 1205617978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why not just header () { echo "$1: $2\r" } < 1205617986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves the need to use -n, which is nonportable < 1205617994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true < 1205618007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to write cgi.sh now < 1205618008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1205618042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your projects seem to require writing other projects in order to be able to start < 1205618055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to get something up and running on eso-std.org sometime soon < 1205618063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pastebin would have been useful, for instance < 1205618072 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, i love java, reading a file to a string is like 6 lines <3 < 1205618080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1205618090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the pastebin is going to be Really Advanced(TM) ;) < 1205618093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I like reinventing the wheel. < 1205618103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, hopefully i only need to get the wheel right *once*. :p < 1205618121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 () { echo "$1" | md5sum | sed 's/ .*//' } < 1205618171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't distinguish between $1=--help and $1=the help text for GNU echo, if that's what's being used < 1205618204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1205618210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5sum outputs: "sum -" < 1205618219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "foo" | md5sum < 1205618219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00 - < 1205618225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean they're the same text, so they'll hash to the same thing < 1205618244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: show me what you mean < 1205618244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that this matters at all, but echo "x$1" would avoid that problem < 1205618250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'--help' is not equal to 'the help text' < 1205618255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1205618255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1205618260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: better fix: < 1205618262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -- "$1" < 1205618269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... everyone uses the shell builtin < 1205618271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean seriously :) < 1205618281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo will actually echo -- if you give it as an argument < 1205618287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jeez < 1205618317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seems to remember a system (was it SunOS?) on which echo was deprecated in favour of printf
< 1205618337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1205618358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it's command-line parameter processing was so inconsistent < 1205618362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it's/its/ < 1205618402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: case/esac is portable, rihgt? < 1205618406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1205618412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in POSIX sh IIRC < 1205618428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, nobody would use that syntax otherwise ;-) < 1205618534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _hash_"$1"_$(md5 "$2")="$3" < 1205618536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my 'set' < 1205618536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1205618550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do you keep putting $1, etc., in double quotes? < 1205618552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I broke it so hard when adding concurrency it even fails mycology/sanity.bf when compiling with -DCONCURRENT_FUNGE *debugs* < 1205618556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm. good point < 1205618557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paranoia :| < 1205618562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep thinking about it in terms of rewrites < 1205618571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1205618572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they contain embedded spaces you're going to be in trouble anyway < 1205618577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-) < 1205618596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I got no clue why it only prints sanity up to 7 atm < 1205618699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm i actually need no hashtable initialization < 1205618709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: since it's purely virtual and there is no 'hashtable object' < 1205618710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coool < 1205618837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eval "echo \$"$(echo _hash_$2_$(cgi_md5 "$3")) < 1205618840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that could be prettier < 1205618885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eval "echo $"_hash_$2_$(cgi_md5 "$3") < 1205618888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the nicest i can get it < 1205618911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why am I wasting my time on this? < 1205618924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION asked you that a while ago
< 1205619141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwtf < 1205619149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what < 1205619163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm adding concurrency to cfunge < 1205619166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some problems < 1205619235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unrelated parts < 1205619237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1205619273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your problem is clearly insufficient setjmp < 1205619288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, harhar < 1205619293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C-INTERCAL's threading works fine, at least on the programs that people have managed to think up so far < 1205619325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, it seems I get some memory corruption somewhere or something, because something totally unrelated breaks < 1205619334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, funge-space < 1205619338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although half the times I think up a new and unusual way to use it it segfaults, normally in a way that left me wondering why it worked on everything else because I'd made an obvious typo < 1205619343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not changed, yet it breaks by concurrency < 1205619354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well. it isn't actually threading after all < 1205619364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looping instruction pointers < 1205619372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise on C-INTERCAL < 1205619374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not looked I threaded the interpreter itself < 1205619385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that has several complications the way I've done it < 1205619394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a simple straightforward INTERCAL interpreter is no fun < 1205619404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it even breaks on single threads now :/ < 1205619416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 0 or a negative number of threads? < 1205619426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, current IP = 0 < 1205619434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked that < 1205619442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bit works, the issue is elsewhere < 1205619620 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1205619790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so as it turns out trying to glue peices of software together to make a semi-framework isn't pretty < 1205619798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually using stuff is pretty < 1205619801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how suprising < 1205620221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm shocked that nobody else is suprised. < 1205620242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh? < 1205620269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was afk
< 1205620443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :) < 1205620463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1205620467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lacks context
< 1205620650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the irony of having a stack allocated on the heap
< 1205620868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh found it, I referenced once too many times < 1205620979 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1205621078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wow, this is pretty < 1205621092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that instructions without any particular concurrency-related behaviour, such as ^>v<#, take one tick. < 1205621092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will continue to produce textual output, so strings must work correctly where concurrency is concerned: "a b" should take 5 ticks, 'a should take 1. < 1205621092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GGGGGGOGOGOGOGOGOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO < 1205621101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that's good I assume? :D < 1205621102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1205621241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1205621343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, found it, ip didn't move correctly after split < 1205621351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it split and split and split and so on < 1205621365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thread stayed on t spawning new threads all the time < 1205621366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1205621389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge: /home/arvid/src/cfunge08/src/stack.c:89: StackPush: Assertion `stack != ((void *)0)' failed. < 1205621393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1205621431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1205621447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes on to execute after thread finished :/ < 1205621480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how come perl manages to all look the same < 1205621488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when all I've learnt about it I've learnt from your pastes <.< < 1205621498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low barrier to entry i guess < 1205621518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because people are so unused to seeing anything that looks like perl, except maybe shell-script < 1205621546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like seeing people from a culture you aren't used to; they're all so different from you in terms of appearance, you find them hard to find apart whereas they can tell themselves apart quite easily < 1205621580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now you are just being weird :P < 1205621586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about all perl alike < 1205621592 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no racist, but all Malbolge programs look alike to me < 1205621596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen readable perl < 1205621607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but indeed most perl looks like line noise < 1205621610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well hey, a quote management system as my second perl app may be... a little ambitious < 1205621623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to it in python < 1205621628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or C < 1205621642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or do it in perl but use Inline::C < 1205621645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1205621667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was doing it in python, the first two times < 1205621677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First with a DIY framework, then with Spyce < 1205621680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that failed? < 1205621687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to try Pylons, web.py &co but cba because I don't like frameworks like that < 1205621690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You betcha < 1205621692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try twisted? < 1205621702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can I say 'please die in a fire' here? :< < 1205621709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never used it < 1205621712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twisted for a web app is the most awful idea i've heard of < 1205621712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1205621727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought there was twisted HTTP or something? < 1205621738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is twisted for writing http servers? < 1205621798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1205621816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look try php or python < 1205621827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use an existing software < 1205621886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: php heh < 1205621896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just told you I tried Python *twice* < 1205621906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and twisted.web does exist, but eek. < 1205621914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using an existing software is so not cool ;) < 1205621954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "PTTH"4( < 1205621990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a fingerprint? I thought it was SOCK < 1205622015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not an existing one no < 1205622025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SOCK does exist < 1205622040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why not an HTTP server framework for befunge? < 1205622070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not indeed < 1205622082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a CGI script written in INTERCAL, after all < 1205622088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's still online
< 1205622098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some nice ideas btw: BOOP = Befunge Object Object Orientated Programming Extension < 1205622106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think? < 1205622118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: interesting < 1205622122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no idea how < 1205622192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, why is OOP in perl ugly as hell < 1205622196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooo much boilerplate < 1205622203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't like Perl OOP either < 1205622220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Though this looks interesting < 1205622221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.40/lib/Moose.pm < 1205622237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal/ins/insstart.html < 1205622340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when I saw the intercal spec < 1205622347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was so extensive that i thought it would be pretty substantial < 1205622349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if esoteric < 1205622356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it really has very little stuff.. < 1205622358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fancy syntax. < 1205622364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have you seen my improved spec? < 1205622372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's linked from http://intercal.freeshell.org < 1205622382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :support for things like multithreading, operand overloading, and so on < 1205622391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL, linked from the same site, has even more < 1205622403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its spec is simply a delta from INTERCAL-72 and yet still fills several pages < 1205622481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has come along a long way from the old days < 1205622493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I challenge anyone to understand WHILE at the first attempt, for instance) < 1205622752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarg, that INTERCAL CGI script stores information in the /names/ of elements < 1205622765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1205622834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'use RatsAss;' is a vaguely disturbing line < 1205622839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but even the basic stuff < 1205623003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, how i love the fact that html 4.01 lets me omit / and other cruft < 1205623026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1205623071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are two schools of thought about HTML < 1205623084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one goes on to create XHTML, where a single typo blanks your page < 1205623090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other goes on to create HTML 5 < 1205623106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a DOCTYPE line of < 1205623116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it ! or ?, actually, I can never remember < 1205623125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is way easier to code an XHTML interpreter than a HTML one < 1205623133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is it's the minimum number of characters needed to trip browser's compliance switches < 1205623134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because XHTML is more strict < 1205623144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I actually favour XHTML over HTML < 1205623149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good < 1205623182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really < 1205623187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xhtml is step in the wrong direction < 1205623190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's more formal -- good < 1205623194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it retains *cruft* < 1205623201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, ehird, you belong to the /other/ school of thought < 1205623209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used to be an XHTML weenie. < 1205623211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XHTML 1.1, even. < 1205623217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how was http://intercal.freeshell.org/ick-0.27/index.htm generated I wonder < 1205623225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems familiar < 1205623229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFO style? < 1205623229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: texinfo < 1205623229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: texinfo < 1205623232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1205623239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with custom modifications < 1205623244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, you SHOULD serve xhtml as application/xml+xhtml, but IE dies on this) < 1205623244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try hovering the URLs, for instance < 1205623250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're 8.3 format for DOS-compatibility < 1205623254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah doesn't look that the ones on gnu.org < 1205623262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm using my own stylesheet < 1205623275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, weird names yes < 1205623277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's some custom hacking of the TOC and some of the headings < 1205623281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you made C-INTERCAL? < 1205623286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1205623290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm the current maintainer < 1205623293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1205623303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is the weird filenames for < 1205623305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why < 1205623329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for DOS compatibility, of course < 1205623342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok.... why DOS compatibility? < 1205623349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth would anyone care about that? < 1205623357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: c-intercal supports DOS. < 1205623360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because INTERCAL is compatible with a whole load of outdated technologies < 1205623367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is one of the maintained targets for C-INTERCAL < 1205623376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which (apart from cygwin) is the only way to run it on Windows < 1205623382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know at least one person who uses dos as his main system < 1205623388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know in a loose sense - internetknow < 1205623394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and what is the difference between CLC-INTERCAL and C-INTERCAL < 1205623401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what one is the "newest" < 1205623407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're two different implementations < 1205623410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL is newer < 1205623416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of when it was created < 1205623422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're both actively maintained < 1205623424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uuurgh, I want a StrictWarningsIronFist < 1205623430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a package, it makes them all strict&warnings < 1205623435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who maintains CLC then? < 1205623435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't have to type it all the goddamn time < 1205623471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Claudio Calvelli < 1205623482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -Wall -ansi -pedantic -Wextra -Werror < 1205623483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1205623495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not here in this channel? < 1205623501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right now < 1205623507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also are CLC and your one compatible? < 1205623509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever seen him here < 1205623514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to some extent < 1205623519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm? < 1205623521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each has features the other doesn't implement < 1205623532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ones that are implemented in both are mostly compatible < 1205623535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is CLC an abbreviation for his name? < 1205623538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C-INTERCAL manual has a portability list < 1205623541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not sure, but probably < 1205623567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I comment on what each of the common commands does in each implementation < 1205623594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were two INTERCAL-72 implementations that used different syntaxes (the Princeton and Atari implementations) < 1205623602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then C-INTERCAL, J-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL < 1205623619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J-INTERCAL hasn't been updated in a while, and is just INTERCAL-72+COME FROM by label < 1205623620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

Software error:

Quot.pm did not return a true value at index.cgi line 10.
< 1205623626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to put a true value at the end of my module? :|
< 1205623627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1205623655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205623661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Perl module traditionally ends 1;
< 1205623676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I find the fact that I have to put @EXPORT etc in BEGIN disturbing
< 1205623792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEGIN {
< 1205623792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  use vars(@EXPORT);
< 1205623792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  @EXPORT = qw(quot);
< 1205623792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}
< 1205623797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faaar too verbose :D
< 1205623862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205623878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a qw in there
< 1205625051 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1205627408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :""Going home""
< 1205627754 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"je re"
< 1205628088 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205628219 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205628278 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205628412 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205629971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"
< 1205630746 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205631016 0 :BMeph69!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BMeph
< 1205631933 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@athedsl-116794.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205631941 0 :Tritonio__!n=Tritonio@athedsl-116794.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205631949 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205631957 0 :Tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205631973 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@athedsl-116794.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205632919 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205633292 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I just realized that if I do in fact make this language,  I am going to make my own profiler since it cannot use C calling convention. Sigh.
< 1205633320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!"
< 1205633324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1205633339 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh.
< 1205633363 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has learned a LOT about DNS today

< 1205633463 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today, i pood, ate and coded java
< 1205633479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you figure out the parse tree.)
< 1205633480 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh,
< 1205633495 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume coding java and pooing are a single process.
< 1205633537 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute, very cute
< 1205633544 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that doesn't make as much sense as it did in my head.
< 1205633552 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apologize.
< 1205633559 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205633581 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i take the comp with me to the toilet.
< 1205633593 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to ask
< 1205633641 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I was trying to make a simile between eating poo and coding java.
< 1205633857 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205633870 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made that multiple times
< 1205633883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1205633884 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that simile
< 1205633909 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the words came out in senseless babble.
< 1205633933 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is the result of spending too much time writing a language spec.
< 1205633956 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My typing system is turning into a clone of C.
< 1205633966 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointers and such are exactly the same.
< 1205633997 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only additional type I expect is a closure.
< 1205634058 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But every other aspect of the language is in no way similar to C.
< 1205634059 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all.
< 1205634135 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it esolicious?
< 1205634177 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean?
< 1205634290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205634301 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205634304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you considered it esoteric?
< 1205634324 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1205634334 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eso- is something you add when something is esoteric, -licious is just something you add when something is hot and steamy
< 1205634349 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter can also be a nop, depends on the situation
< 1205634351 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1205634650 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to decide if I should even implement closures.
< 1205634652 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are so slow.
< 1205634684 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it isn't that much work to just create a function.
< 1205634698 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it makes it even more confusing.
< 1205634844 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kinda closures?
< 1205634868 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one type of closure, no?
< 1205635124 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, closure = function copies surrounding namespace?
< 1205635127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US Government uses ZoneEdit?
< 1205635149 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Basically.
< 1205635186 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: and that is slow because?
< 1205635211 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to stick all the local variables on the heap somewhere.
< 1205635214 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just compile that into giving the params explicitly instead of taking them from the surroundings.
< 1205635246 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but you need to malloc every single time you pass a closure.
< 1205635257 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in my language they could EASILY become overused.
< 1205635345 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user would likely end up creating a closure for the true and false of every single if statement.
< 1205635354 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is bad.
< 1205635466 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus it would massively uglify the syntax.
< 1205635505 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205635536 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also trying to decide to have anonymous functions or not.
< 1205635543 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is easily implemented.
< 1205635546 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ugly.
< 1205635838 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonymous functions are sex
< 1205635848 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have them, and people will like you
< 1205635990 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1205635996 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I will implement those.
< 1205636014 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think closures are a nono.
< 1205636083 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I use <> or [] for function definitions?
< 1205636099 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think <> so that i could use [] for arrays.
< 1205636135 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even thought vice versa looks better,  [] for arrays will conform with all other languages.
< 1205636212 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I will use {} for structures.
< 1205636216 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I do not know what for comments.
< 1205636614 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> is cute
< 1205636636 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use stuff with hyphens
< 1205636644 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- --> for oklotalk, -- for most
< 1205636689 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- is from haskell, <-- --> is my own invention based on haskell + nopol, but it is also a html comment perhaps
< 1205636700 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, i've never used comments in my html :)
< 1205636838 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I cannot use <> that is function definition.
< 1205636865 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could use /* */  but it is so difficult to type.
< 1205637029 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, if I could make everything with more than 2 lines of indentation commented.
< 1205637037 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there will never be more than one.
< 1205637038 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever.
< 1205637040 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is nice.
< 1205637094 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/if I could/if I was stupid I could
< 1205637219 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nono
< 1205637224 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make one indentation comment
< 1205637227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 and 2 are program!
< 1205637239 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD
< 1205637493 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe ~comments~
< 1205637528 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or `comments`
< 1205637539 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, the ` char is too small.
< 1205637556 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough characters on the keyboard, seriously.
< 1205638407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they invented tokens
< 1205639587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. ~comments~ would logically be not comments. :p
< 1205639758 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205639765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...colorForth can not help but be the one operating system in the world capable of being totally open and at the same time the most quickly understandable by children."
< 1205639800 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...if you realize that this is possibly a once in a life time chance to make computing easier for the entire world in one project..."
< 1205639809 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(somebody wants to put colorForth on OLPC)
< 1205640239 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perhaps the most insane page i've ever seen. http://colorforthray.info/
< 1205641242 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having difficulty understanding why colors are necessary or useful in FORTH.
< 1205641409 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lament- if that's the most insane page you've ever seen, you should investigate http://www.timecube.com/
< 1205642389 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like colorforth.
< 1205642397 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be better though.
< 1205643873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me. . .
< 1205643886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cherez: Going to do more of your dramatic readings of Time Cube?
< 1205643985 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The Time Cube stuff has even gotten worse recently. . .
< 1205644034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The craziness goes up to eleven now.
< 1205644151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TimeCube page gets updated?
< 1205644213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1205644218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Believer is far more EVIL than a False God, for Google
< 1205644219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut back my Site from 34,000,000 to 4,000,000 in 1 night
< 1205644219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the above Statement. 1 Day1God exists only as Evil.
< 1205644219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Google was free of such evil bias, predjudice
< 1205644219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and shenanigans that block real truth from being known.
< 1205644219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once before, Google cut back my site from 89,000,000 to
< 1205644221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :34,000,000 in a single act for something I said, that/s Evil"
< 1205644223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1205644230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is that supposed to MEAN?
< 1205644241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's now discussing +0- antipodes. . .
< 1205644243 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF is that?
< 1205644278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Slime_Cube :D
< 1205644299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, a slime cube with a bunch of potions in it? *Dangerous*.
< 1205644734 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205644763 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always figured it would digest any potions spilled within, but that could be interesting...
< 1205644805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potions activating at random.
< 1205644808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder*
< 1205645044 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing my campaigns, a couple random potions are instant, bottled hilarity
< 1205645065 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was always proud of the "plaid potion".
< 1205645184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Plaid potion?
< 1205645193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I *want* to know what that does?
< 1205645218 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a particularly deranged alchemist made most of my players fear potions with odd, misspelled labels like the plague
< 1205645225 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it does what it sounds like
< 1205645279 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it turns stuff plaid.
< 1205646740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO
< 1205646765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to know more of this campaign

< 1205646815 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran my D&D games very fast and loose, and there was a lot of comedy and running gags
< 1205646865 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Melf" was a dangerously inept wizard/alchemist/probably pothead that made the craziest shit
< 1205646923 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes my notes would be just a sheet of paper with "there are some caves, here's a random encounter table and here's a list of the insane magic items the players will find"
< 1205646958 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could spend hours with them just figuring out what stuff did, fighting some goblins and solving a puzzle room or two
< 1205647059 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even in the more serious adventures, it wasn't unusual to run across some "Melf's Acid Apples" or a deck of "Stinky Pete's Cards of Fortune"
< 1205647209 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "bag-O-charisma" was a fun one. Strangle someone with it, and it steals a portion of their CHA, and then transfers it to the next person that dons the bag, temporarily. It took players a while to figure it out, and then caused trouble because nobody recognized the players afterwards until the effects wore off.
< 1205647256 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately one player, thinking quickly, beat himself in the face with a rock until he was ugly enough for the townspeople to recognize
< 1205647281 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times, good times
< 1205647496 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'know, I think if I could find my old notes to refresh my memory, I could make some pretty funny comics about our exploits back in the day
< 1205647672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My God.
< 1205647681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1205647693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you need a few Decks of Everything.
< 1205647707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.
< 1205647713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the name of that again. . .
< 1205647728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deck of Many Things.
< 1205647821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes off, sticks of Bag of Holding in a Bag of Holding.

< 1205647857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which. . .
< 1205647865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: You should have given out a bag of devouring.
< 1205647929 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my players sewed a bag of devouring into his pocket, hilariously slaying several pickpockets
< 1205647966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO
< 1205647972 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRILLIANT!
< 1205647987 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the books make it clear that storing bags of holding or portable holes in themselves or each other will tear a hole in existence and suck shit inside before disappearing
< 1205648017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun to mess with magic objects.
< 1205648081 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am *intimately* familiar with all the core rulebooks, particularly magic items. I'm good at memorizing these things, which is why I was a good DM. They're still all up here in my skull.
< 1205648108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1205648110 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After a year or two I never needed the books at all unless somebody had to roll up a character
< 1205648126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What's the funniest one you can think of?
< 1205648130 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just me, my notes, and dice.
< 1205648137 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm...
< 1205648160 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the hand and eye of Vecna aren't exactly funny, but they're interesting
< 1205648186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not familiar with the magic items. . .

< 1205648195 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't just sling those around willy nilly, because they're supposedly unique
< 1205648196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't come up much in campaigns I've played. ;)
< 1205648234 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made loads of Vorpal quarterstaffs and intelligent +2 hafling skiprocks and goofy stuff like that
< 1205648260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO
< 1205648419 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, I could run an adventure over skype for old times sake someday if you can get a decent group together
< 1205648444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can, sure.
< 1205648468 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what edition do you use?
< 1205648522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to 3rd.
< 1205648535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have a copy of 2nd around here, though.
< 1205648540 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good. Would you be up for trying 1st edition sometime?
< 1205648550 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term "fucking brutal" doesn't do it justice
< 1205648580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, I'd be up for trying it.
< 1205648581 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to run an adventure for it, and I have a handful of classic modules I could snazz up
< 1205648584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lack rulebooks, though.
< 1205648615 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can scan a couple pieces, explain the rest and preroll characters for people
< 1205648629 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even have a table of pregenerated characters for this purpose
< 1205648632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1205648652 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone will probably get 2 characters because they'll die like flies
< 1205648708 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: in 1st edition, if you're disabling a poisoned lock and miss the DC, it stabs you. Fort save to resist poison. Fail the DC there, and your character is dead. period. stats are irrelevant.
< 1205648753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit.
< 1205648759 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit indeed
< 1205648781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna try that trick with the bag of devouring, though. . .
< 1205648785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1205648793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something more unique would be nice, though.
< 1205648796 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 1st edition a wizard's starting HP is lower than an average housecat. There is no difference between money and XP. Everything, EVERYTHING is fucking hardcore.
< 1205648823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.O
< 1205648858 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melf's Acid apples are cool. Bite into one and it'll dissolve most of your head. They're best used as grenade-like things once you know what they actually are. Good for making holes in castle walls
< 1205648875 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of my inventions, btw)
< 1205648914 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the damage was like 2d10+5+ 1d4 CHA damage if you ate it.
< 1205648924 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, improvisation is key here
< 1205649029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers an online copy of the d20 ruleset. w00ts.

< 1205649051 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, I know there's a difference between CHA and Rifts-style P.B.- you're less persuasive and convincing when you don't have a lower jaw.)
< 1205649081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Cloak of Poisonousness. . .
< 1205649082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1205649091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could actually be used as a deadly weapon.
< 1205649096 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I mention that aside from encyclopedic knowledge of D&D I know about 6 other rulesets as well?
< 1205649111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(put it on. Unless you succeed a fortitude check of 28, you die.)
< 1205649113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1205649165 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This all contributes to why I play with out books, and make up most stuff on the fly- I know how everything works, and I know all kinds of ways it *could* work.
< 1205649225 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, you realize the books are just there to point you in the direction, and if you take enough of a running jump on your own, you can learn to fly.
< 1205649321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course.
< 1205649328 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the DM/GM equivalent of becoming "the one". The rules of a roleplaying game are just like the rules of a computer system- some can be bent. Others, broken.
< 1205649338 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game is just a conduit for storytelling.
< 1205649360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time, I'd play using nothing but my character sheet. . . The DM would look things up from time to time, but most of the time, it was just sheer amusement. . .
< 1205649375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers the final day of his first campaign. . . A giant chicken ended that. XD

< 1205649445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DM stuck a rubber chicken and some miniatures on the table and said 'There. You're fighting that.'
< 1205649449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I summon a giant bee.'
< 1205649450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205649461 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A good DM knows the only rules necessary to play are the following: 1) Be consistent. 2) Be fair. 3) You want the players to succeed, but they don't have to know that. 4) keep 'em guessing.
< 1205649464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <3 druids, BTW. . .

< 1205649494 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow those principles and you can have a grand time doing *anything*
< 1205649498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another campaign ended in apocalypse. For the hell of it, he was rolling an apocalypse check every time we did something really, really unlikely.
< 1205649503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 20s in a row, for example.)
< 1205649589 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best moment for me as a player EVER "I rolled a 20! I succeeded" "No, you didn't" "What if he rolls a nat 20 too?" "Yeah, like that's gonna happen" (rolls a nat 20 without blinking) "... fuck you guys. It explodes."
< 1205649638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I rolled a 20. Thrice." "That. . . Can't die. . ."
< 1205649671 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new galleries on my site for games (http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games.php) and comics (http://rodger.nonlogic.org/comics.php), btw
< 1205649673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fine. It dies. You see it again, behind you."
< 1205649720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00ts.
< 1205649727 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hide and make the sounds of a babbling brook to throw the owlbears off my trail" (critical failure) "BAAAASSS! BAAASSS!"
< 1205649773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO
< 1205649864 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there was the time my character used weighted dice and some insane bluff checks to win EVERYTHING the guards to this fortress OWNED while the other characters snuck in and locked them out.
< 1205649891 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/comics/Comic019.png Brilliant.
< 1205649927 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"halt who goes there" "Flashbang, gnomish smith of great renown. Up for a game of chance? I have *shiny* things..."
< 1205649954 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought CL#24 would be topical
< 1205649958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205650065 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried out "Polyp", my new game?
< 1205650070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/comics/Comic011.png Sorry, but I won.
< 1205650073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to in a bit.
< 1205650089 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that XKCD was so uncool.
< 1205650100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree.
< 1205650115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think The Game just became more positive.
< 1205650170 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ryan just has a less rigorous strain of the virus- mine is pretty explicit about what constitutes a win condition.
< 1205650194 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A STRANGE GAME; THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY. *klick*"
< 1205650240 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and goddamnit why hasn't Aaron updated yet.
< 1205650257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he must be executed.
< 1205650270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice 'weekly' schedule, no?
< 1205650285 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/weekly/semi-monthly
< 1205650295 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're lucky.
< 1205650385 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather you're starting to take my point of view on the matter
< 1205650400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1205650408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was one thing when he didn't update during the flu and moving. . .
< 1205650420 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you do a strip for a living, MOTHERFUCKING TREAT YOUR RELEASE SCHEDULE AS MORE THAN A VAGUE SUGGESTION"
< 1205650426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But god dammit, it's halfway through March, and we've had one update in the past two weeks.
< 1205650436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/weeks/months/
< 1205650448 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1205650500 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that rate, 6 strips per YEAR. Dresden Codak is well done, but I could draw something that well blindfolded if I had two months in which to make it.
< 1205650529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rodger.nonlogic.org/comics/Comic001.png
< 1205650541 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's a classic
< 1205650545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truly.
< 1205650553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need to stick that one on my wall or something.
< 1205650577 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on a true story no less
< 1205650666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow.
< 1205650676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a fun orientation week.
< 1205650719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh.
< 1205650822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205651001 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, frickin' try Polyp before I go to sleep
< 1205651022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1205651131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant.
< 1205651148 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankoo
< 1205651156 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under 700 lines of code
< 1205651251 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205651627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn.
< 1205651682 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to download the source and fiddle. It's all WTFPLed
< 1205652871 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm out
< 1205652881 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205653660 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night"
< 1205654399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1205654400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205658864 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205660244 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1205662803 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205663104 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205667166 0 :marshmallows!n=space@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205673244 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205673271 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205673656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a "low-order copy"?
< 1205673693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mentioned in some befunge fingerprint specs I'm trying to implement, but I got no idea what it is
< 1205673976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C ('bracelet') pops three vectors off the stack and performs a low-order copy of Funge-Space.
< 1205674249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the way I interpreted that is start from the end, not the beginning, or vice versa
< 1205674260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. go from top left to bottom right versus bottom right to top left
< 1205676256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so not a high order byte copy?
< 1205676483 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205676513 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205676558 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205676564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, probably not
< 1205676637 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy
< 1205676655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo
< 1205676676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if I recall correctly, !Befunge does it the same way - or at least tries to, the mycology test fails
< 1205676696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205676722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need to update that chart, try my last version, it got concurrency
< 1205676732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to update it anyway
< 1205676736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pretty fast still with my super-optimize script
< 1205676749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if you *want* to see it
< 1205676757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not ;-)
< 1205676772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's not that bad
< 1205676789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/ipoHrq23.html
< 1205676798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to be run from top checkout dir
< 1205676805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, out of tree builds = not supported
< 1205676852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also skipping GC = saves about 0.01 seconds or so
< 1205676866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is down around 0.077 here so :D

< 1205676875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that script
< 1205676920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway what do you think? try adding your own -march and such in CHOSTFLAGS
< 1205676934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's overkill :-)
< 1205676935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know how well it performs with that
< 1205676947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but I want to see how fast I can get it!
< 1205676964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't compared startup times yet? i.e. just replace the first char of mycology with @
< 1205676966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and you may want to add -DCONCURRENT_FUNGE to DEFINES variable
< 1205676977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right, I'll test that
< 1205677023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders optimizing if it can be determined that part of the program won't get loaded, ie, if first char is @ just quit :D

< 1205677075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real    0m0.066s
< 1205677083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hrrm, looks like loading takes most of the time
< 1205677091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cfunge at least
< 1205677099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I thought
< 1205677120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is completely IO bound and you're optimizing CPU usage like crazy :-)
< 1205677146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well without my optimizing it wouldn't be IO bound
< 1205677159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to look at how to make loading faster

< 1205677160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I still think it would be
< 1205677181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a program spends 90% of its time doing IO it's IO bound alright ;-)
< 1205677200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because in CCBI the difference is much larger
< 1205677219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big?
< 1205677228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real    0m0.188s for ./ccbi --disable-fprints ~/src/cfunge08/mycology/mycology.b98 > /dev/null
< 1205677232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real    0m0.117s
< 1205677235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep in mind that CCBI is always doing IO during mycology as well :-)
< 1205677236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with it disabled
< 1205677269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the latest CCBI?
< 1205677289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well notice that I got it down from around 0.150 to 0.070 with my cpu optimizing, with -O0 -ggdb3 it takes around 0.500
< 1205677314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, not the very last, will download last
< 1205677326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one had the typo in --help
< 1205677331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we've got a program that used to take 0.2 seconds to run now takes 0.1 seconds to run, and it's doing IO for 70% of that :-)
< 1205677343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for what is left yes
< 1205677363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, optimizing such just seems like so much overkill :-)
< 1205677373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go optimize bashfunge instead
< 1205677392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, bah, it would fail at doing x
< 1205677398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it was implemented
< 1205677437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the last ccbi zip file from your site is slower
< 1205677440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time ./ccbi --disable-fprints ~/src/cfunge08/mycology/mycology.b98 > /dev/null
< 1205677440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real    0m0.179s
< 1205677447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with @ at start
< 1205677450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real    0m0.244s
< 1205677453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without @ at start
< 1205677454 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205677455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205677469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it's about 50% faster for me :-)
< 1205677477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably CPU?
< 1205677482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence we see that optimizations are once again a bit... dubious
< 1205677489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I downloaded the last ccbi_linux.zip
< 1205677495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not if you do profiling!
< 1205677504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do do profiling
< 1205677507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1205677510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcov?
< 1205677517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took the time for funge-space access down by 30% or so
< 1205677521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, at least.
< 1205677541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes indeed, changing to not pass fspace pointer around helped for me too
< 1205677556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't be needed without TRDS I suspect
< 1205677611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if I profile for a mycology with a @ at the start I can get time down to less than 0.06 seconds XD
< 1205677617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs (it was a joke!)

< 1205677641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, what I don't do is profile-guided optimization. :-P
< 1205677654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hehe indeed
< 1205677705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an idea at least, hm can you get the size of a file without using stat *looks at man pages*
< 1205677727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what I'm thinking about is doing some optimizing of initial allocation size
< 1205677738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to select maybe 1.25 * program size
< 1205677755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of hard coded defaults
< 1205678074 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205679297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it looks, according to gprof, like the bottle neck is inserting into hash table
< 1205679309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1205679323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, faster hash library then?
< 1205679343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or admit you're at the limit :-P
< 1205679366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, current hash library I selected because it was 1) lgpl 2) small 3) easy to use
< 1205679394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen better that are 1) custom GPL compatible  2) large 3) harder to use
< 1205679424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sunrisetel.net/software/devtools/sunrise-data-dictionary.shtml <-- going to investigate that one
< 1205679450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I can speed up current hash library a bit
< 1205679461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hard coding it to handle FUNGEDATATYPE
< 1205679471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of handling pointers to data
< 1205679473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should help eh?
< 1205679478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1205679491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you don't think so?
< 1205679517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to say anything, I'm just going to sit here and laugh at your desperate attempts to squeeze every last bit of performance from a Befunge interpreter :-D
< 1205679519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it use a function pointer to a hash function, hard coding it to use one of the hash functions instead would also help
< 1205679548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's just a matter of seeing "how far can I take this"
< 1205679568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it looks like most code in mycology only executes once, right?
< 1205679574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a JIT wouldn't help much
< 1205679685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, looks like gprof works sub-optimally on binaries with much inlining hrrm
< 1205679917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, without inlineing I see it is "search_in_bucket" private function of hash table that is slowest
< 1205680205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here a GC function is the one that takes most time
< 1205680223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what style of GC is the boehm one? generational, mark-and-sweep, what?
< 1205680242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mark-and-sweep iirc
< 1205680260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some variant of that
< 1205680301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep mark-and-sweep
< 1205680324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway that was a build without GC I tried to check what was going on in hash
< 1205680341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it does some generational collection as well
< 1205680354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the search_in_bucket takes 80% of the time of running when mycology starts with a @
< 1205680357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1205680368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it already looks quite optimized
< 1205680399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here gc.mark takes 30%, followed by input, followed by hashing, followed by input, followed by gc.fullCollect, followed by gc_calloc
< 1205680411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, calloc, hrrm
< 1205680419 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205680425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I did LEAK_MODE to check without gc
< 1205680431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: D always initializes all variables
< 1205680443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might cause slowdown somewhere with arrays, can't be bothered to find where
< 1205680446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, aha, well I think boehm does too
< 1205680494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that where you do int[40] x; D also does memset(&x, 0, 40 * int.sizeof);   or something :-)
< 1205680494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you can safely do: #define calloc(x,y)  GC_MALLOC(x) * (y))
< 1205680495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1205680503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah I see
< 1205680519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really use static arrays much anyway
< 1205680534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static arrays would not be initialized would they?
< 1205680542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a static array
< 1205680545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it would be.
< 1205680546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor ones allocated on the stack, right?
< 1205680550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205680552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they would be.
< 1205680556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is initialized to something.
< 1205680562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't in C I think
< 1205680567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well static array might
< 1205680568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends
< 1205680569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, they wouldn't.
< 1205680582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C initializes nothing implicitly.
< 1205680616 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205680619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that still doesn't explain why an array on stack ended up as { 0, 0, 0, 0 } without initializing heh
< 1205680631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumb luck
< 1205680640 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1205680661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably, anyway I filled it just one line after so didn't matter, but gdb told me every time I hit it that it was that
< 1205680758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks DESCRIPTION and RETURN VALUE of man memcmp are somewhat redundant, telling the same info

< 1205680802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, gcc does a __builtin__ for memcmp, explains why that instruction took so much
< 1205680879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw kprof is very nice
< 1205680923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and it turns out according to it, the real problem isn't loading when running without @, but getting from hash
< 1205681038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of the 0.8 seconds to run without the @, about 0.4 is spent searching in hash
< 1205681039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1205681045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not really IO bound
< 1205681053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hash table lookup bound
< 1205681068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course insert on loading program needs to look up too
< 1205681636 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205682031 0 :oklofok!i=oklofok@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fed8de00-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205682050 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205682290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for now I'm not going to try to optimize hash, but the way it is coded it should be easy to replace with another hash library later
< 1205682833 0 :faxathisia!n=space@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205682891 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1205682903 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :marshmallows
< 1205683237 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205683410 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205684008 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses his net connection

< 1205684294 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I have whitespace separate type and var name the way C does?
< 1205684320 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative in what context?
< 1205684322 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the only relevant whitespace in my whole language if I do.
< 1205684335 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Function definition.
< 1205684338 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205684346 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the language look like
< 1205684376 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are these two people?
< 1205684389 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: how about a colon
< 1205684403 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhm,  there is no other languages that have the same syntax as the one I am designing.
< 1205684413 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the C typing system.
< 1205684416 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's about it.
< 1205684424 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"var : type" is a common syntax for variable types
< 1205684451 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, I still have no idea what the language looks like.....
< 1205684467 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the formal one, as well as the one found in Haskell, Pascal, ML-likes, etc
< 1205684496 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any of those languages does that..
< 1205684528 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell uses ::, Pascal uses whitespace (sort of like C), and ML don't have explicit type annotation....?
< 1205684544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pascal uses :
< 1205684549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var foo : integer;
< 1205684551 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functionName<..., type arg, type arg> continuation(..., arg, arg)
< 1205684553 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt it does
< 1205684556 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like "global foo : int"
< 1205684566 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the current syntax, and I don't really like it.
< 1205684596 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok yeah get rid of the <> and do it like pascal
< 1205684626 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205684633 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205684652 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Haskell and ML-likes just took the two alternatives to the dilemma of : or :: for cons and : or :: for type-annotation
< 1205684727 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather use <> for arrays and [] for function definitions, but I figured it would be better to follow the conventions of C and such.
< 1205685111 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use -> for array indexing?
< 1205685132 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or >>, or !!, or !, or } or some other symbol
< 1205685144 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of those are from actual languages
< 1205685155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's }?
< 1205685155 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the >> I think
< 1205685157 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.
< 1205685167 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are ugly, heh. And i am using {} for structures/
< 1205685189 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}, or maybe it is {, is in J and K
< 1205685212 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, J is fun.
< 1205685215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of esoteric languages and almost hit the mark ;-)
< 1205685249 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! and ! are or course from Haskell, and I forget where -> is from
< 1205685325 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm
< 1205685392 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Euphoria
< 1205685475 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, <> looks somewhat ugly, but I think I will use it.
< 1205685495 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot decide for the types though.
< 1205685786 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I remember
< 1205685804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> and --> as indexing operators are out of Inform
< 1205685822 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> is byte indexing and --> is word indexing
< 1205685917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's plain brackets, table(idx), too
< 1205685979 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that is function call though.
< 1205686299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205686311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think I'm close to the limit of speed with current design yes
< 1205686322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll concentrate on features instead
< 1205686356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and I do have some idea for loading faster, the problem is the actual IO part isn't the slow bit, it is the hash table lookup that is
< 1205686382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, anyone made some sort of coverage analysis for befunge?
< 1205686382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, same here
< 1205686391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all time is basically dominated for hash table + GC
< 1205686397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean?
< 1205686430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as in gcov style, shows how many time each line is executed, for befunge that would be instruction not line of course
< 1205686468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do that right now by just compiling with -cov and running :-P
< 1205686474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I plan to use gcov on my source to see how much of it mycology actually tests
< 1205686488 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: the same syntax for function calls and array indexing is fine.
< 1205686491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did, too
< 1205686494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but I mean actual coverage on the befunge program itself
< 1205686497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not gcov
< 1205686516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as in see how much of mycology is executed in CCBI for example
< 1205686522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean not count how many times # is called, but how many times a particular # is called
< 1205686530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep
< 1205686547 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205686550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically easy to do by running your trace mode, for instance
< 1205686553 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, an array is just a function from the index to a mutable cell
< 1205686556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just use a program which counts that
< 1205686567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm indeed
< 1205686632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you run the Fungus Befunge IDE?
< 1205686640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err no?
< 1205686661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has a cool "show path that IP travelled" kind of feature
< 1205686667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1205686675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it draws lines on top of the befunge program to show where the IP went
< 1205686683 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1205686686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way it seems CRC32 hash is faster than one-at-a-time hash, hm....
< 1205686699 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it draw lines over all the boundaries that the IP didn't cross?
< 1205686704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, very nice, except for mycology fingerprints it would look like a mess
< 1205686707 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is more comprehensible
< 1205686709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you use common loading code
< 1205686710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of implementing something like that for CCBI, and was thinking even of a protocol so that you could map any GUI onto it
< 1205686717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a mess
< 1205686727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same line is just drawn a bunch of times
< 1205686734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205686739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's always entered from the same direction etc.
< 1205686747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I don't think so.
< 1205686751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes should be useful for coverage analysis
< 1205686763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, how does it show the line over say:    #v  r
< 1205686795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could upload a screenie of what it does with the parts of Mycology that it can handle
< 1205686798 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when annotating Hunt The Wumpus, I found that lines between code to show where the IP didn't go were much easier to read than lines the showed where it did go
< 1205686800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm fungus site gone?
< 1205686803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look /that/ great but it's handy
< 1205686818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and only a windows binary on your site :(
< 1205686820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, only the web archive page exists
< 1205686826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only a windows binary was ever releaased
< 1205686832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, closed source?!
< 1205686840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I say, The only closed-source Befunge interpreter I’ve come across.
< 1205686841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1205686861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, upload screenshot somewhere, say omploader or such a picture pastebin
< 1205686868 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205686938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway when do you plan to update your mycology results page?
< 1205687005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I can bother :-P
< 1205687019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you used some script to generate that table?
< 1205687035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, of course
< 1205687051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what language?
< 1205687055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell
< 1205687074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, was going to ask you to send them over so I can have a look, but if it is haskell forget it
< 1205687083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1205687108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/fungus_running.png and http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/fungus_end.png
< 1205687114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I don't know D, but if I read your D code I can often guess what it is trying to do, same for C++, but well with haskell it is just weird
< 1205687117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, it's nothing special
< 1205687134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh, I was hoping for some opengl stuff with arrows and such
< 1205687143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1205687157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why I was thinking of some kind of standard-ish protocol
< 1205687183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes if you make one I'll be sure to implement it
< 1205687199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, something over unix sockets maybe?
< 1205687202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. interpreter outputs "IP with ID foo and mode bar is at pos x,y with delta a,b and offset f,g" or whatever and then a frontend can draw stuff given that
< 1205687204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just stdout/stdin?
< 1205687225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter really, but ideally text-based
< 1205687231 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205687233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'd prefer a more compact and easier to parse for a program format
< 1205687236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say:
< 1205687242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, of course not literally like that
< 1205687245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, not binary
< 1205687270 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar x y a b f g
< 1205687287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP=5;MODE=STR;POSX=5;POSY=7;DELTAX ....
< 1205687294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would allow 3D too
< 1205687300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add POSZ
< 1205687301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not greater than 3D
< 1205687302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205687307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ÅÄÖ ;P
< 1205687309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why something like pos={5,7} would be better
< 1205687315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep agreed
< 1205687333 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fscanf(sock, "%d %d %d %d %d %d %d %d", &id, &mode, etc etc etc
< 1205687351 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sloooooow
< 1205687353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but please make it easy to parse with scanf or such, and single line for each to parse
< 1205687357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is how to handle stuff like mode and fingerprints, and what kind of all info is needed
< 1205687385 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe indent following lines with whitespace?
< 1205687392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for mode you could do some string constants, say CODE,STR for the two standard ones, and some more
< 1205687407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, support for transmitting TRDS info would NOT be needed
< 1205687412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest not allowing that
< 1205687417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to say what about TRDS :-D
< 1205687420 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have an ID, pos, delta, and other fixed stuff, then an indented list of properties
< 1205687431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it's horrible, and quite pointless
< 1205687432 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lol
< 1205687437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like we're rapidly moving towards JSON/sexps ;-)
< 1205687445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-expressions sure
< 1205687445 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaml?
< 1205687450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-expressions
< 1205687454 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, XML is the answer
< 1205687454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, but not XML ;-)
< 1205687456 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1205687461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a emacs user and is used to elisp

< 1205687470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I feel at home with S-Expressions
< 1205687476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS would be pretty easy to support actually
< 1205687493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I even wrote some code in C# to seralize .NET classes to S-Expressions
< 1205687497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that happens is all the IPs suddenly move to a different place
< 1205687502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and space is modified
< 1205687503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather I wrote a substantial part of that code
< 1205687518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual parser and tokenizer someone else coded
< 1205687529 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TODO: prolog in befunge via TRDS
< 1205687531 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1205687547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, ERR_TRDS_TOO_STUPID_NOT_SUPPORTED
< 1205687550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205687554 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually TRDS allows IPs to meet their younger selves
< 1205687564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird name TRDS
< 1205687564 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think
< 1205687571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what TRDS stands for
< 1205687574 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, very mnuemonic
< 1205687575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TARDIS
< 1205687578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS
< 1205687598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah, never watched that TV series
< 1205687624 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed out
< 1205687694 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the TRDS spec?
< 1205688223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: in the RC/Funge-98 readme
< 1205688317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I find it odd some even fail at sainty.bf
< 1205688337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/sanity/!Befunge.txt
< 1205688338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err?
< 1205688351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output looks ok?
< 1205688353 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205688360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "*** Exited normally"
< 1205688363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet it is marked as bad
< 1205688368 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205688372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah so it shows that at the end?
< 1205688384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see right there :-P
< 1205688392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always compare to the expected
< 1205688407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err but why is CCBI marked good, output doesn't match
< 1205688411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI shows a warning message
< 1205688415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/sanity/CCBI.txt
< 1205688419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can be removed
< 1205688423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by not specifying -w
< 1205688433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah for me it is "enable warnings by -W"
< 1205688469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it says for !Befunge "irremovable exit code output" - it can't be removed
< 1205688480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm does http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/sanity/FBBI.txt contain something strange? I get a download box instead of it getting show inside firefox like the rest of the files
< 1205688504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, apparently firefox or the web server don't like txt files that contain null bytes
< 1205688521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1205688533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not null bytes, but control characters
< 1205688563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hmm
< 1205688583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "# < jumps over <" in http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/mycology-output/befunge93/BeQunge.txt why did that cause END?
< 1205688590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did it crash just after that?
< 1205688604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask BeQunge what happened :-P
< 1205688613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no trace?
< 1205688624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an IDE
< 1205688637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah probably trace then
< 1205688637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if there were, I wouldn't bother to find out
< 1205688662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah but for !Befunge you would bother to check I suspect? ;P
< 1205688669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually, no
< 1205688673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < is fatal
< 1205688677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1205688680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, mycology quits afterward
< 1205688692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, if the interpreter is interesting in its own right, sure
< 1205688699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's just another crap implementation then no :-P
< 1205688706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BAD: 3k< takes more than two ticks" <-- hm is there no matching GOOD for that one?
< 1205688731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expected.txt seems to have it
< 1205688735 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 3k< takes two ticks
< 1205688737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks cfunge

< 1205688750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes it's there
< 1205688750 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises something important about befunge...

< 1205688754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yes?
< 1205688759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is a bloated language?
< 1205688764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's hard to compile?
< 1205688766 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't add new operators that look like the built-in ones
< 1205688790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, indeed, all chars between ASCII 32 and 127 are in use
< 1205688803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :127 isn't
< 1205688804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In things like C, most stuff is in functions, and your functions look like the builtins
< 1205688811 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :127 is a control char
< 1205688815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure? isn't 127 == ~?
< 1205688817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks

< 1205688820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as SimonRC said
< 1205688823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is 126
< 1205688850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1205688850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what control char is 127 then?
< 1205688855 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called DEL
< 1205688859 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my ASCII chart, it's some sort of house shape
< 1205688862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1205688865 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is often typed as Ctrl-?
< 1205688885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, the limit on chars in input is a bit odd for befunge
< 1205688903 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the two common bindings for backspadem, the other being ^H (BS)
< 1205688909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(and greater than 255 on systems where characters are stored in multiple bytes; but no greater
< 1205688909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than 2,147,483,647.)"
< 1205688927 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonab;e
< 1205688928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does that mean I have to handle chars greater than 255? Ie, handle utf8
< 1205688935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I read files in assuming 8 bit chars
< 1205688940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't
< 1205688944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originally read that so that you do
< 1205688953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made the mistake of assuming UTF-8 on input
< 1205688962 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, on systems where there is a difference, are befunge files text or binary?
< 1205688963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note that it talks about /systems/ where characters are stored in multiple bytes
< 1205688972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not about text encodings or anything like that
< 1205688974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what such systems exist?
< 1205688978 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes a difference if you have (e.g.) Chinese strings as UTF-8
< 1205688986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no clue
< 1205689006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read further it's clear what is meant
< 1205689008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is to say, character #417 may look like a squiggle on system Foo and a happy face on system Bar, but the meaning is always the same to Funge, 'character #417', regardless of what it looks like.
< 1205689052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also utf8 should work fine, say a char consists of {125 123}, assuming it is loaded on stack that way and the terminal interpreters it as such an encoding, it will work fine
< 1205689053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you get 0xeb 0xbb 0xbf on input you're not to read it as char #65534
< 1205689073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, however that will depend on if you travel > or < or other direction
< 1205689077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, just plain reading/writing in basic ways works if done correctly.
< 1205689091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may mess up columns
< 1205689095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just as getting GOOD or DOOG depends on which dir you're moving in. :-)
< 1205689113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you assume your editor's display is correct in that sense
< 1205689115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do say    "ö" you would get different results depending on what way you travel
< 1205689128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be a PITA to write in reverse
< 1205689161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do ;#"ö";# <
< 1205689168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what?
< 1205689178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reverse
< 1205689178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I get it
< 1205689195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, however it would break say, ip going down over line later on it
< 1205689197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you've got the luxury of a working j or x
< 1205689200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use them
< 1205689209 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I would store each unicode code point in one cell
< 1205689209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :            v
< 1205689209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    ö       >
< 1205689217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may not work as expected
< 1205689218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like said, if you think your editor display is correct then you're mistaken.
< 1205689226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh
< 1205689229 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205689245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or, if you've got the luxury of a working j or x <-- yes but what is wrong with ; ?
< 1205689249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah, such a mode could easily be implemented, but it'd depend on interpreter support.
< 1205689252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is very nice for comments
< 1205689257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you've got more ;s
< 1205689265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; astusaddrfasdfasdfa ;#"ö";# < asdfsadfasd a;
< 1205689267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work any more
< 1205689270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true
< 1205689280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I almost only use ; for comments
< 1205689295 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo...
< 1205689300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the few places where I comment I just put it next to the code :-)
< 1205689301 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do # and space interact?
< 1205689308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does mycology test wrapping within ;  mode?
< 1205689311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: we just talked about it above, # jumps over space
< 1205689320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, jump over, ie, doing nothing either way
< 1205689330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: many interpreters get that wrong and instead jump over the next instruction after spaces
< 1205689331 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205689344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably not explicitly, but it uses it
< 1205689354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone
< 1205690044 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Killed (NickServ (Comando GHOST usato da DIO))"
< 1205690066 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205690453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1205690499 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205690527 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb nuclear war
< 1205690547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1205690547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, it was just because I was in a discussion so it would seem odd if I just left
< 1205690552 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205690554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I wouldn't mention it :P
< 1205691089 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205691461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw mycology fails at testing greatest point of y well, I had two errors in it, that, for mycology's case, canceled out each other
< 1205691477 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind
< 1205691477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 1) I pushed width and breath not absolute max point
< 1205691482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) I had a off by one error
< 1205691494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and least point in mycology at that point is -1,-1
< 1205691507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result: my error did not show up in mycology
< 1205691561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if I make the least point -1,-2 somebody will have an off by one and off by two error ;-)
< 1205691581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, better check once, write to a new negative value and check again
< 1205691590 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-53-134.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205691599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, right, you fit that in there :-P
< 1205691601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but at least in C off by one are rather common when working with array
< 1205691602 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205691608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays*
< 1205691615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know
< 1205691625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, brain thinks in 1-indexed, computer doesn't
< 1205691638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off by two or so is not as common
< 1205691652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as for fitting in: I prefer PIC befunge
< 1205691654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier
< 1205691662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :position independent code
< 1205691676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, I would too
< 1205691681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I started it out like that and hence it became that
< 1205691686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205691688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not going to rewrite it either :-P
< 1205691707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually is it harder to write PIC in befunge than absolute code?
< 1205691710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said, test {}gp first and then use {} to keep stuff PIC
< 1205691714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is
< 1205691725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some fingerprint to help that?
< 1205691725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have a working { and }, not much
< 1205691740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need, { and } make it as easy as can be
< 1205691742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBR is actually worse for PIC
< 1205691774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not meant for PIC
< 1205691778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant for reusing code
< 1205691805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I would prefer a mode for finding such functions that was position independent
< 1205691808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205691825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe register function entry point, and then jump to that name or something?
< 1205691863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there is one thing I'd like to add in a fingerprint, just because it would so totally NOT fit with funge
< 1205691869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REGS
< 1205691874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulate CPU with registers
< 1205691874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1205691884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's REFC
< 1205691913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm but REFC got a problem: you can't know what it returns
< 1205691922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205691927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you could register something under a given index
< 1205691940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you could hard code what entries to look up
< 1205691958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh you mean REFC = registers?
< 1205691967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or REFC = register entry points?
< 1205691979 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REFC = variables, which is essentially equivalent to registers
< 1205691998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205692078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer something like A = push into %bax, B = Push into %bbx, C = Push into %bcx, maybe 2-3 registers more, then  have operations that multiply those and such
< 1205692097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make it feel like registers :)
< 1205692121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as befunge is a stack based language it would feel so totally wrong :D
< 1205692217 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a goot way to do a goto in befunge?
< 1205692235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, x, relative addressing to
< 1205692245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there is J from SUBR fingerprint
< 1205692250 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah
< 1205692254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is jump to absolute coordinates
< 1205692268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, x sets delta
< 1205692273 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1205692276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you got to reset delta after you jump
< 1205692278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works well
< 1205692281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a goto
< 1205692285 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about to say that myself
< 1205692319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, however, for "jump and go east", if you can depend on SUBR fingerprint, then I'd recommend J
< 1205692322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise x
< 1205692334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid depending on fingerprints if you can IMO
< 1205692339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205692356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also j
< 1205692363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1205692363 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, Forth rather relies on address = 1 cell
< 1205692366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like x, but it moves once and doesn't change the delta
< 1205692372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1205692374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205692389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it does, but then it changes it back again (in my implementation, or it breaks at wrapping)
< 1205692412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the semantics matter, not how it's implemented :-)
< 1205692416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I don't want to do like CCBI and run "one forward" 9999 or whatever times
< 1205692446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing CPU as I can't optimize hash more yet
< 1205692447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1205692464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw cachegrind looks nice
< 1205692483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of valgrind
< 1205692492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks for cache miss situations
< 1205692494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead
< 1205692505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not using it is because it's output is hard to parse
< 1205692510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205692511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe when everything else is doen
< 1205692513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done*
< 1205692525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are frontends for cachegrind as well, you know :-)
< 1205692528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do run valgrind and mudflap every now and then
< 1205692537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep, kachegrind or something like that
< 1205692545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they actually left the c in for once
< 1205692609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw ever tried mudflap?
< 1205692616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1205692623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice pointer debugging thing, if you enabled the mudflap useflag for gcc
< 1205692626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't programmed that much in C/C++
< 1205692638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Mudflap_Pointer_Debugging
< 1205692646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know what it is :-)
< 1205692666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, quite nice, at some things better than valgrind, at other things valgrind is better
< 1205692687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I've seen boehm-gc in leak check mode catch leaks neither of those two catched
< 1205692763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I've been thinking of some kind of JIT for some things, but I think they may end up slower, ie. caching the matching ; for a ; and such
< 1205692781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but likely to be slower as I would need to invalidate cache at p and so on
< 1205692797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing, concurrency, ; takes 0 ticks right?
< 1205692809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how long does this take:       ;  blah blah;;blah blah;
< 1205692814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 ticks
< 1205692817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205692830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;                                                     ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;$   takes one tick
< 1205692838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the semicolons match
< 1205692838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for $ yes
< 1205692921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, when cfunge is done I think I'll try to write a fast brainfuck compiler, ie, optimize and convert to speedy C
< 1205692927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then compile that optimized
< 1205692947 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that interested in brainfuck, it's too simple :-)
< 1205692961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what other esoteric languages are you interested in?
< 1205692978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I've been looking for something cool but haven't found anything that special
< 1205692987 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rail or whatever it was called looked nice
< 1205693026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked? or was?
< 1205693045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looked
< 1205693055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't done anything with anything other than befunge, really
< 1205693055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what was the problem with it?
< 1205693058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bit of whitespace once
< 1205693061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me
< 1205693064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember :-P
< 1205693080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a rail -> befunge converter maybe?
< 1205693104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I've just had enough of esoterica for now ;-)
< 1205693142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one thing you could do, change wrapping to allow user defined topologies, ie, load klein-funge file into CCBI
< 1205693149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to
< 1205693156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but could be a nice experiment
< 1205693172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really be done
< 1205693175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1205693178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the wrapping function can be arbitrary
< 1205693186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed it can
< 1205693192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have a parser for it
< 1205693217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that can be JIT compiled or so
< 1205693235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compiled to a *.so/*.dll even
< 1205693235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and loaded
< 1205693235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need to implement a whole language there
< 1205693259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you could just dlopen a file, with a few basic functions
< 1205693259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well leave it to the dynamic language people
< 1205693283 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that that doesn't work on windows
< 1205693292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there are *.ddl on windows
< 1205693295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work the same
< 1205693304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there are dlls
< 1205693308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember functions names for windows though
< 1205693313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would require writing a lot of code to make it work
< 1205693335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like LoadLibraryExWeDidn'tGetAPIRightFirstTimeSoHereIsAnExtendedOne
< 1205693335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trickier in D than in C, with the garbage collection and all that
< 1205693347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be easier if only loading C code
< 1205693359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, too much trouble
< 1205693365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds all the *Ex API functions of Windows sad

< 1205693375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't even get their APIs right first time sigh
< 1205693456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's stuff like tmpfile in the C/POSIX APIs as well :-)
< 1205693478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes tmpfile/tempfile/mktemp/mkstemp
< 1205693499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but hardly as common
< 1205693506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you've got a million customers you usually can't just say "stop using what you have because this new stuff is better", you're burdened with backwards compatibility
< 1205693521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I admit, the design of windows could have been much better from the start.
< 1205693548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed, but windows got more *Ex functions than POSIX got updated functions
< 1205693625 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the windows stuff also supports a lot more stuff
< 1205693634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saying that it's a good thing to have all that built in
< 1205693640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205693649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windowing routines belongs in X API
< 1205693653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in system API
< 1205693665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've heard the X API is absolutely horrid
< 1205693693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, very likely, xlib is
< 1205693699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11#Limitations_and_criticisms_of_X
< 1205693700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that new xlib replacement is better
< 1205693702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot it's name
< 1205693730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libxcb
< 1205693733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one
< 1205693751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, isn't that like a big *Ex for all of X? ;-)
< 1205693871 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1205693872 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 sucks.
< 1205693877 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless of api.
< 1205693892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's arguable, as well
< 1205693928 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just the 11th protocol revision,  it is horrible,  no matter what api they use to wrap it, it still sucks.
< 1205693973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, so use motif or QT or something
< 1205693982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but POSIX API is great
< 1205693985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X API isn't
< 1205693999 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1205694003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X API is sheer insanity.
< 1205694012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, agreed
< 1205694016 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motif and qt still use the 11th protocol revision.
< 1205694029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, is there any 12th?
< 1205694034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: *Everyone* uses X11.
< 1205694039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not an X12.
< 1205694049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although X.org is tossing around ideas for it, actually)
< 1205694050 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: freedesktop is considering it.
< 1205694055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1205694059 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really considering it,  but they have a wiki with ideas about it.
< 1205694061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope they make the new API sane
< 1205694070 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205694092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really nice and sane, and provide backward compatiblity in some external library
< 1205694112 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already said this,  the api is not the problem, the problem is the protocol that the server and clients must follow, the packets they must send.
< 1205694152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: No, the API is the problem.
< 1205694159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is *fucking insane*.
< 1205694162 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can wrap this protocol in an api to make it tolerable,  but it still would suck internally.
< 1205694166 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes Win32 look reasonable.
< 1205694222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, nop, you could replace it with a 12th protocol revision
< 1205694259 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1205694268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would still suck.
< 1205694384 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If graphics contexts, window borders, and all the other useless garbage was removed from the protocol, the api would inevitably become more sane.
< 1205694469 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't have a clue how they could fix the hell that is the icccm.
< 1205694566 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or any IPC for that matter.
< 1205694574 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, maybe they could make a lib to handle that or such.
< 1205694586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, 1-bit icon pixmaps
< 1205694631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, *.xbm?
< 1205694631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, basically, "If the entirety of X11 were removed, then the API would become sane".
< 1205694644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what the ICCCM specifies
< 1205694650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205694686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even back a few years that was useful, think of transparency in gif, you could threat that as a 1-bit pixmap acting as a mask
< 1205694691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today we got alpha of course
< 1205694709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, useful, but it's one hell of a limitation
< 1205694740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but I can see 24-bit images or whatever it is on my screen, and I can see transparency, so I'm not sure I get the *current* problem
< 1205694745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps just an *alpha channel*? ;)
< 1205694765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even they are 8-bit these days
< 1205694773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well aware.
< 1205694774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't use composite but...

< 1205694944 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Without using an extension to the protocol, the core protocol itself,  the most colors that you can use for many things is two,  for example, you can only use two colors to create a cursor using the core protocol.
< 1205694977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, I see
< 1205694987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I got a 2-color cusor
< 1205694988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so?
< 1205694997 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure?
< 1205694998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the standard X11 cursor
< 1205695001 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transparent is a color.
< 1205695006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't trade it for anything
< 1205695006 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is three.
< 1205695023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? so the standard cursor is 3-color?
< 1205695029 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1205695034 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah
< 1205695043 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the bit's that arent the cursor are trasparent
< 1205695054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, transparent and black as far as I can se?
< 1205695055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see*
< 1205695063 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White outline.
< 1205695076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1205695080 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Are you sure?
< 1205695094 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may be right, now that I think of it.
< 1205695096 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm.
< 1205695104 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1205695112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, wouldn't the cursor be a rectangular bitmap?
< 1205695128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically I mena
< 1205695130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean*
< 1205695133 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar.
< 1205695143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes 3 colors then
< 1205695147 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably stored interally as such...
< 1205695156 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's relevant to how many colors it's made o
< 1205695174 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case you could probably even say it's 256 colors
< 1205695193 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you use an extension.
< 1205695307 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember i always needed to use the xcursor extension in order to get > 2 colors.
< 1205695321 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I remember correctly xrender could be used as well.
< 1205695503 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you may be able to have 2 colors + a mask
< 1205695505 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever.
< 1205695560 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to go.

< 1205695562 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/
< 1205695961 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads up

< 1205696017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? why are some of the GOOD BAD boxes on the result page for the mycology tests not links?
< 1205696033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually mostly the GOOD ones
< 1205696047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no point in linking to anything, they're the expected output
< 1205696059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still some GOOD are links?
< 1205696060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does say that right above the table you know :-)
< 1205696067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they have something UNDEF
< 1205696070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1205696436 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1205696636 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"back later, with pizza"
< 1205696644 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall there is a supposed X replacement called Y
< 1205696650 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was on /. a few years back
< 1205696654 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION searches

< 1205696708 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't bother.
< 1205696710 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the suck.
< 1205696713 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in sdl.
< 1205696836 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205696951 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205698292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Written in sdl.
< 1205698293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205698296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl uses X?
< 1205698298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1205698427 0 :Sgeo!n=Anonymou@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205698630 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not always.
< 1205698646 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has other backends.
< 1205698660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, linux framebuffer
< 1205698677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wincrap
< 1205698715 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep.
< 1205698745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and aalib it seems
< 1205698746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1205698752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     Installed versions:  1.2.11-r2(02.57.23 2008-01-05)(X alsa arts fbcon opengl xv -aalib -custom-cflags -dga -directfb -esd -ggi -libcaca -nas -noaudio -nojoystick -novideo -oss -svga -xinerama)
< 1205698912 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aalib is awesome.
< 1205699140 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205699420 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1205699946 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205700019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: H outputs 40 as (28
< 1205700019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1205701268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you in C convert an integer to a string in the given base, for decimal, octal or hexdecimal it is easy with printf, but for other ones? say base 2 or base 31
< 1205701287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf seems to only do base 8 10 and 16
< 1205701292 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in std c does this
< 1205701395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1205701414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, so how should one do it, it is for an befunge fingerprint
< 1205701423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of loop on the value?
< 1205701443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what is the best way to get arbitrary base in C?
< 1205701452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some "standard algorithm"?
< 1205701480 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void binary(int number) { if(number > 0) binary(number >> 1);
< 1205701480 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          putchar(number & 1 ? '1' : '0'); }
< 1205701491 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> 1 just means divide by two
< 1205701496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205701497 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do similar for any base
< 1205701509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta do it by hand.
< 1205701514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, need a look for a number larger than say 1 ;P
< 1205701516 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/number & 1 ? '1' : '0'/number["0123456789"]/
< 1205701521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right?
< 1205701532 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion is the loop
< 1205701536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1205701544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders how to convert to a while loop

< 1205701561 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1205701566 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth would you do that
< 1205701567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1205701577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, recursion mean function can't be inlined
< 1205701582 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1205701602 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :)
< 1205701602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prevents optimizing
< 1205701619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, look I'm aiming to make the fastest befunge interpreter out
< 1205701622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out there*
< 1205701661 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what fast code is.. good algorithms
< 1205701674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, I know
< 1205701701 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ultra optimizing a proc that only works on numbers < 65536
< 1205701705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, an recursion is not a good algorithm
< 1205701711 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit
< 1205701714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, err, it only does that?
< 1205701727 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint are bigger than four chars?
< 1205701739 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xFFFF=65535
< 1205701749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, fingerprints names have to fit into four ASCII chars
< 1205701760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't affect the fingerprint routines themself
< 1205701762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205701815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xFFFF=65535 <-- yes but range is [A-Z0-9], or maybe even [A-Z0-9a-z], not [0-F]
< 1205701836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^32 - 1 I think is the number of possible fingerprints that can exist
< 1205701864 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. I said that..
< 1205701887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, but that doesn't limit what the fingerprints can do
< 1205701890 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you should stop thinking recursion is inefficient that's like poison
< 1205701901 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's false and will limit you severly
< 1205701904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0101000 leading 0 hm
< 1205701909 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes I know C does not define TCO who cares)
< 1205701920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TCO?
< 1205701932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for monitors?
< 1205701945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finds what looks like an IPv6 propaganda comic

< 1205701948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused

< 1205701957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, heh?
< 1205701964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd map of ipv4?
< 1205701981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The adventures of Team ARIN"
< 1205701982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.arin.net/education/comic/index.html
< 1205701993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_o
< 1205702023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that's weird, like very weird
< 1205702055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds almost as bad as that "sorcefource" thing or of microsoft
< 1205702077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I'm learning from this comic
< 1205702199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, your algorithm works for bases below 10, I can see that, but what about higher ones? I need to support up to 36 bases
< 1205702213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to base 36*
< 1205702218 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/number & 1 ? '1' : '0'/number["0123456789ABCDEF"]/...then
< 1205702224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205702321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thank goodness I was able to ZING your hardware and stop your packets from moving and messing up the Internet!"
< 1205702343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, spare us from this
< 1205702580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: "01223456789ABCDEF"[number] looks cleaner to me. . .
< 1205702604 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer it the other way, it's your code do you watn
< 1205702947 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh
< 1205704462 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-47-244.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205704708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1205704725 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205704783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, we all know the real way is "mov eax, [hex_string + number]".
< 1205704935 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205705183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, doesn't handle 64-bit values
< 1205705212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%rax maybe on amd64, on 32-bit no idea
< 1205705231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming bases above. say 2^32
< 1205705233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205705298 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: i know about timecube, but colorforthray.info is possibly more insane
< 1205705312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, what is timecube?
< 1205705322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: timecube.com
< 1205705323 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205705350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the owner of colorforthray is actually on freenode.
< 1205705361 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1x -1 = 1 IS STUPID AND EVIL >:|
< 1205705531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, err, lets see that can be simplified to -1x = 2, means x = 2/(-1)       x =-1
< 1205705533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er
< 1205705535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = -2
< 1205705568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, how is it stupid an evil?
< 1205705763 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-47-244.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205705780 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Read the time cube :o"
< 1205705782 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was, I sayng
< 1205705806 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205706256 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I will have to read that site
< 1205706267 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ColorForth is great
< 1205706298 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe only in the way unlambda is great
< 1205706505 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the way that it is totally awesome?
< 1205706525 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205706559 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unlambda
< 1205706601 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda!
< 1205706601 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much the best known functional esoteric language!
< 1205706606 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then again, that's still not very known
< 1205706616 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh\
< 1205706633 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to figure out if the language I am designing is "functional" or not.
< 1205706650 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it full of functions?
< 1205706660 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.
< 1205706673 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define function.
< 1205706763 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there first-class function-like things?
< 1205706778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is lambda a keyword?
< 1205706792 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lambda expressions.
< 1205706802 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I could have closures, but I do not think I will.
< 1205706802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate?
< 1205706819 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions typically need to return a value.
< 1205706823 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: Show me some code in it
< 1205706826 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have no side effect.
< 1205706843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods... In a purely functional language, of course. . .

< 1205706854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got a nice idea from a language due to a typo I made in C:
< 1205706863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool bool somefunction(...);
< 1205706868 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: loop<...>loop()
< 1205706873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, a language where stuff can return several values
< 1205706875 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm
< 1205706877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using such a syntax
< 1205706878 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: loop<...>loop(...)
< 1205706882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My god.
< 1205706885 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a larger bit of code
< 1205706889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what?
< 1205706893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insane.
< 1205706895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me like.
< 1205706896 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you write nothing about 20 lines yet?
< 1205706912 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster haha I like that
< 1205706919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically, those are no longer functions, but rather *relations*. . . :p)
< 1205706922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no time to write specs, but basically you wouldn't have to do say bool (bool * foo); to return several values
< 1205706933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead could return any number of values
< 1205706937 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: main<...>add(..., print, 3, 4)
< 1205706948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh? they are what?
< 1205706959 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Factorial is like 15 lines.
< 1205706962 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: read it, it's fucked up.
< 1205706963 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is on the old spec.
< 1205706965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ignore, please.
< 1205706965 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool show me that
< 1205706966 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have changed it since hten.
< 1205706975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no?  what?
< 1205707015 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: quickly, tell us!
< 1205707023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how assignment syntax from such a function should look
< 1205707026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something like
< 1205707039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo,bar,quux = somefunction(); ?
< 1205707040 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does it mean here to retu multiple values? do you return multiple times to the return continuation, or just return a pair, or..?
< 1205707060 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't wanna be a killjoy, but if it's the latter, it's not that crazy :P
< 1205707071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, well not sure, you can return several values, any given amount of values
< 1205707090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and variable amount of returns
< 1205707093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tuple then
< 1205707095 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar = f();
< 1205707103 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: http://pastebin.ca/945366  That is a snippet of the old spec.
< 1205707110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so:  int ... myfunc();
< 1205707117 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is before anonymous functions and  before the syntax changed.
< 1205707117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would return n number of integers
< 1205707121 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But same idea.
< 1205707124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n is unknown
< 1205707139 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205707180 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjie!
< 1205707181 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there so many ...?
< 1205707182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, like variable argument count in C, but instead variable return arguments
< 1205707194 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know
< 1205707200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You could have some very interesting calling conventions with that. . .
< 1205707201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, would be a procedural language I think
< 1205707201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi okly
< 1205707212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, stop :)
< 1205707226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh yes, at least when you do variable both ways
< 1205707235 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: What does ... mean?
< 1205707236 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Because, there are no return values.
< 1205707237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel all stoppy
< 1205707243 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Ignored args.
< 1205707245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, double ... floor(double ...)
< 1205707246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For compatibility with the standard calling convention, have the first return value stuck in eax, and the rest get pushed on the stack.
< 1205707269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err not eax, would rather be rax right?
< 1205707276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On AMD64, it would be rax.
< 1205707281 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the code enough to decide, sorry
< 1205707302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most people don't have OSes that enable long mode, so the rax register won't exist for those people. ;)
< 1205707312 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Basically,  it has continuations only,  no return values.
< 1205707314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway I could not code this heh, anyway I don't know ASM
< 1205707321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, however an interpreter should work
< 1205707330 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you pass a function to execute next to every function.
< 1205707330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I probably won't code this, just a crazy idea
< 1205707336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be trivial to code up given a simple C compiler, actually. . .
< 1205707343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh?
< 1205707353 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the word "function" but I do not believe they can be called functions.
< 1205707361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting it to handle the syntax would be the pain.
< 1205707377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the actual *semantics*? Trivial.
< 1205707387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway if the first return value is larger than 32-bit it won't fit in %rax, or if it is floating point
< 1205707403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rax/eax/
< 1205707411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah eax
< 1205707452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard C calling convention returns the value in eax if it's 32-bit or less, and not a float. If it's a float, it's on the floating point stack instead. And, if it's just larger than 32-bit, then eax has a pointer to it.
< 1205707471 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205707473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC)
< 1205707480 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1205707482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should look up cdecl again

< 1205707492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, amd64 calling convention doesn't do that, it returns floating point in SSE registers iirc
< 1205707500 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What is the point? Why not just return a structure?
< 1205707510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, it could be interesting
< 1205707529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you make this language has, first class functions
< 1205707535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it could be really interesting
< 1205707540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The amd64 calling convention is different from the x86 calling convention.
< 1205707541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrreally
< 1205707546 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you curry return values
< 1205707552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry?
< 1205707554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure
< 1205707596 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you talking about my language or your's?
< 1205707602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mine?
< 1205707609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather my wild idea
< 1205707618 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just return a structure?
< 1205707619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably won't implement it, or write a spec for it
< 1205707623 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point of multiple return values?
< 1205707624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x86's convention stores all arguments on the stack. x86_64 stores the first 6 arguments or so in registers.)
< 1205707628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, would be cheating
< 1205707643 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, mkay.
< 1205707651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative, why not ask yourself: what is the point of any esoteric language then
< 1205707663 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: Still trying to understand my code or should I leave?
< 1205707675 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the prob is, what's the essential difference between returning multiple values and an n-tuple
< 1205707723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm, also you could code this as returning multiple times, would need some kind of setjmp I suspect, but I suspect you would prefer such a way of doing it?
< 1205707739 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer to know what you mean :)
< 1205707746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, I'm not sure yet
< 1205707752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, you *could* define the calling convention so that it's equivalent to a C program returning a struct. . .
< 1205707771 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: stop being so hardware, i'm a pythonist nowadays! :D
< 1205707778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it all started as a typo I made when copy pasting a new prototype for a function into a header, and missed to remove the old bool
< 1205707787 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1205707789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: When discussing something C-esque, then you've got to be hardware. :p
< 1205707800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess, i guess
< 1205707807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i know
< 1205707810 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: ?
< 1205707813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly omniscient
< 1205707843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so I ended up with: extern bool bool input_getint(FUNGEDATATYPE * value, int base);
< 1205707864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however that would be even easier, as value is an out parameter here
< 1205707875 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION made an 8 instruction assembly language today.. 3 bits for the opcode, 5 bits for a single arg

< 1205707888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be written as bool FUNGEDATATYPE input_getint(int base);
< 1205707895 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish I knew more about circuit design
< 1205707918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too
< 1205707922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also this should be supported:  bool ... int ... somefunction(),  that is several sets of varreturns
< 1205707923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205707929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Could be even worse, though.
< 1205707930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same for varargs
< 1205707938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern bool static bool input_getint(...);
< 1205707953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to sound fun again! now support regexes
< 1205707955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh why static in front of the second bool, what would that mean?
< 1205707960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool+ int{7,10}
< 1205707974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rofls

< 1205707974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it would return different values depending upon the linakge.
< 1205707981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/linakge/linkage/
< 1205707982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, XD
< 1205707987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice
< 1205708001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how, if I may ask, would the return statement look?
< 1205708016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would it be implemented as some sort of co-routine?
< 1205708023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extern bool static bool linked_p() {return 0, 1;}
< 1205708065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205708082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but for say extern bool ... static bool ... int ... then?
< 1205708084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No *idea* how you'd make that calling convention work, though.
< 1205708110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except *maybe* by making the linker understand this language's conventions?
< 1205708112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No clue.
< 1205708120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1205708126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about oklopol's regexes?
< 1205708130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be nice
< 1205708149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return(0,1,0,0,1)(1,0,1,1,0)(5,6,7,8,9,10);
< 1205708149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205708164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ok and assignment from this function?
< 1205708188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say /* what here*/ = linked_p()
< 1205708198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool foo,bool bar, bool baz, int qux, int quux = this_insane_function();
< 1205708215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for linked_p, it'd be easy.
< 1205708220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool foo = linked_p();
< 1205708227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err I mean for the "extern bool ... static bool ... int ..." one
< 1205708231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It returns 1 value; that value is different based upon linkage.
< 1205708232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1205708259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ie, to an array?
< 1205708274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or discard values not fitting into number of return variables?
< 1205708291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still think oklopol's regex for return value looks cool
< 1205708297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and same for arguments :D
< 1205708463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oklotalk does regex-like pattern matching, you can set an assert on lambdas to return a certain type pattern)
< 1205708481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all this done in such an unclean fashion you'll want to cry <3)
< 1205708481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1205708492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, mine at least is quite clean idea
< 1205708502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all the pointer hell of C too
< 1205708565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in shock

< 1205708572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ?
< 1205708576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why?
< 1205708580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window's calling convention does not allow variadic functions.
< 1205708589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, stdcall is crap yes
< 1205708606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what do you call "varadic return"?
< 1205708615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more I know about Windows, the more I hate it.
< 1205708619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :varun?
< 1205708626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :varurn even
< 1205708629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe.
< 1205708630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1205708636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var urn
< 1205708677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, windows "falls back" to cdecl for varadic functions I think
< 1205708882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes obsessed with ViolaWWW

< 1205708889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that?
< 1205708901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, old web browser, from before Mosaic
< 1205708909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ah I forked mosaic btw
< 1205708912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/viola/violaCentral.html
< 1205708922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it be able to show xhml pages
< 1205708935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1205708944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even tried adding garbage collector but didn't get that work finished
< 1205708957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like ViolaWWW had AJAX-like features way before everyone else oO
< 1205708959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you got bzr 0.92 or later installed, you could check it out from *looks for url*
< 1205709016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes... "http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/viola/vw/inset_chess.v" <-- wow
< 1205709039 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.v ? :S
< 1205709057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think ".js for ViolaWWW"
< 1205709059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, viola script it seems
< 1205709068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAAAAAAAAAY before JS ofc
< 1205709100 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not really work
< 1205709105 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/viola/vw/chessDemo.html
< 1205709110 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I miss plugins.
< 1205709115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, -_-
< 1205709119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't read anything?
< 1205709125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for some really old browser
< 1205709134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it doesn't work in modern ones
< 1205709158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AJAX(like) in 1994! http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/viola/vw/monitor2.v
< 1205709160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it looks very weird, parts of it look like C code
< 1205709181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes C code with some \latexstyle commands in it
< 1205709270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the Viola code was adopted for the WWW, how much more advanced would we be right now?
< 1205709302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, if we made that decision way back when, not saying we should do that now)
< 1205709328 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D
< 1205709332 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wha?
< 1205709341 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have support for 3D
< 1205709375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, odd question
< 1205709380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one I can't answer
< 1205709386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, where do you see that?
< 1205709393 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  If the Viola code was adopted for the WWW, how much more advanced would we be right now?
< 1205709399 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am answering this question
< 1205709404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1205709522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he can download ViolaWWW from somewhere and play with it

< 1205709640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All objects can be individually programmed using the scripting language. Each object is essentially its own interpretive environment, and each object is its own variable scope. So, an object only affects its own variable values and can not directly affect other objects' variables, thus minimizing side effects.
< 1205709640 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having an encapsulated mini environment is useful not only for organizational purposes, but is also useful for enforcing security. This is particularly relevant in the Internet scaled World Wide Web context. "
< 1205709652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/ctype.h:#define __isctype(c, type) \
< 1205709652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/ctype.h-  ((*__ctype_b_loc ())[(int) (c)] & (unsigned short int) type)
< 1205709653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice
< 1205709661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how isalpha and such are done it seems
< 1205709682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how stopping one object on a page from interacting with others on the page improves security
< 1205709695 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OO
< 1205709697 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hype :P
< 1205709734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it does a lot
< 1205709748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, say bank login object
< 1205709762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and simple game object
< 1205709792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bank login object should not be reachable from either simple game object, nor trojan object
< 1205709847 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not give you proof that it's not reachable though
< 1205709862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, ?
< 1205709877 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!
< 1205709881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1205709900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't give proof?
< 1205709955 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects
< 1205710012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, true but other security features exist I assume
< 1205710017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or didn't but should
< 1205710017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there are people who fans of ViolaWWW

< 1205710021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, today
< 1205710027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I didn't fan mosaic
< 1205710034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to get it to work and try it
< 1205710054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I noted how much faster than, say, firefox it was
< 1205710133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Historical Web Browsers
< 1205710133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds
< 1205710138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.livinginternet.com/w/wi_browse.htm
< 1205710142 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**facepalm**
< 1205710196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, btw I also forked original gopher client
< 1205710198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205710367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just wants to download VioletWWW right now

< 1205713736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there?
< 1205713765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1205713790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would you want to implement my extended C version? it would include regex for return and parameters as oklopol suggested
< 1205713848 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205713972 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I allow "define" ?  It opens up room for side effects.
< 1205713981 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without "define" side effects are much harder to create.
< 1205714054 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define == global variable.
< 1205714061 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking of only allowing const globals.
< 1205714301 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you writing a scheme?
< 1205714325 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1205714336 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just thinking about taking features from scheme.
< 1205714496 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scheme, define is hardly responsible for side effects
< 1205714516 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you use set!
< 1205714540 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can be.
< 1205714548 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't think so
< 1205714554 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without define there is no room for side effects anywhere.
< 1205714557 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not R5RS COMPLIANT
< 1205714578 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let ((x '())) (set! x 3) ....)
< 1205714653 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define x 3)  (+ x x) (define x 4) (+ x x) The define has a side effect, it causes a different result.
< 1205714767 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what "side effects" mean.
< 1205714771 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*means
< 1205714837 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Equivalent to doing nothing.
< 1205714849 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defining alters the environment.
< 1205714887 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:42  Without define there is no room for side effects anywhere.
< 1205714892 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't have a precise definition of effects :S

< 1205714899 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: In my language.
< 1205714911 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently non-termination can be considered an effect
< 1205714930 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, let me rephrase.
< 1205714947 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define cause side effects, so I cannot decide to implement it or not.
< 1205714961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Recursion monad :)
< 1205714979 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Touche regarding my previous statement.
< 1205714998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Rec a = Now a | Later (Rec a)
< 1205714998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All books are 3 characters. Check syntax and try again
< 1205715021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ?
< 1205715091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Rec is now or later?
< 1205715091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1205715120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-termination is then indicated by Later (Later (Later ( ... :)
< 1205715136 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you heard of sturctural recursion
< 1205715149 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the other thing I can't remember the name of)
< 1205715155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codata?
< 1205715163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1205715165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is what this Rec should be)
< 1205715171 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general recursion
< 1205715172 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scheme, only top-level defines are sideeffecting
< 1205715173 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you can't call yourself in general, but must use a specific combinator
< 1205715184 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliminators
< 1205715188 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :folds
< 1205715199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's not true is it
< 1205715199 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. those ^^
< 1205715230 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's true
< 1205715235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i think define is equivalent to set! whenever a define of the same variable is in the same scope
< 1205715248 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:=> (define (foo) (begin (define x 2) (display x) (define x 54) (display x)))
< 1205715252 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:=> (foo)
< 1205715252 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5454#
< 1205715255 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I studued was for machines where everything was a Nat, and the only recursion was calling yourself with an argument decremented
< 1205715268 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, apparently it's only top-level.
< 1205715271 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do most stuff, but not (e.g.) Ackermann's
< 1205715285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1205715305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even realize scheme behaved this way. This is most odd.
< 1205715309 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define is the same as set! on the top level if the variable is bound
< 1205715326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not otherwise? i see.
< 1205715333 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: you have to admit my example doesn't output what you expect it to output.
< 1205715375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably to make toplevel interactive mode not require any (less?) special treatment?
< 1205715400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since in an interactive interpreter you definitely want to allow redefinitions
< 1205715412 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's bigloo
< 1205715416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1205715421 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and PLT simply doesn't allow me to execute that statement
< 1205715428 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"define: not allowed in an expression context in: (define x 54)"
< 1205715433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: primitive recursion
< 1205715444 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yup
< 1205715444 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamet use let instead of begin
< 1205715445 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzz
< 1205715456 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry?
< 1205715472 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's wrong too
< 1205715478 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't matter what you use
< 1205715480 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quote r5rs
< 1205715492 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Definitions may occur at the beginning of a  (that is, the body of a lambda, let, let*, letrec, let-syntax, or letrec-syntax expression)"
< 1205715500 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key phrase being "at the beginning"
< 1205715615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is annoyingly complicated for being supposedly so simple
< 1205715617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's good complexity
< 1205715674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a special case for allowing definitions inside a begin when that begin is your first statement
< 1205715684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie (begin (begin (define x 2)) (display x)) ==> "2"
< 1205715700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the begins get "folded"
< 1205715821 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(begin (begin (define x 1) (display x)) (define x 2) (display x))  ==> "12"  ; look, i'm redefining stuff!
< 1205715870 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i don't actually get it, why is that allowed?)
< 1205716032 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205716054 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh
< 1205716085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the begins don't just get folded, they also get folded with the top level
< 1205716096 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the definitions inside a begin on top level are top-level definitions
< 1205716101 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work like set!
< 1205716120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (begin (define x 1) (display x) (define x 2) (display x))
< 1205716121 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12
< 1205716129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trying to put that in a function is an error
< 1205716134 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're no longer on top level
< 1205716193 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that kinda stupid?
< 1205716257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks the top level environment should not be "magical"

< 1205716391 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks some more and changes his mind

< 1205717048 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Heh.
< 1205718230 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is bored

< 1205718248 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be at a party right now if it weren't so far away or if dad wasn't working
< 1205718800 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ"
< 1205719439 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, party
< 1205719659 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"
< 1205721433 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205721498 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like doing a random comic. Ideas, anyone?
< 1205721535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frogs
< 1205721551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragons
< 1205721552 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205721557 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hot dogs.
< 1205721557 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umbrellas.
< 1205721571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a haunted castle
< 1205721580 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skis.
< 1205721580 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Party hats.
< 1205721580 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chimney sweeps.
< 1205721585 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I'm pondering here
< 1205721592 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emmanuel Kant.
< 1205721595 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah_: quality over quantity, dude
< 1205721599 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1205721610 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what's the criteria for random quality?
< 1205721654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10% Nobel prize quality, 10% Plan 9 from outer space.  Fill in the intermediates yourself
< 1205721655 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought provoking, original and interesting.
< 1205721676 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that sparks my interest and that I can build from.
< 1205721689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mad Science!
< 1205721695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sparks _my_ interest
< 1205721715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could tie up all the other suggestions
< 1205721746 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205721763 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad science and chimney sweeps sounds like a good candidate
< 1205721878 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205721893 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-47-244.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205721907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetically engineered dragons used as chimney sweepers
< 1205721908 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERNEEEEEEEEEEEEETS >:|
< 1205721994 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can already picture them.
< 1205721994 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like hairy chinese dragons.
< 1205722656 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i love hot dogs
< 1205722660 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i'm hungry
< 1205722759 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See RodgerTheGreat? It's a story that just write itself!
< 1205722786 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205722795 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm already off and running on some steampunk
< 1205722796 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205724191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Conformance checkers must check that the input document conforms when scripting is disabled, and should also check that the input document conforms when scripting is enabled. (This is only a "SHOULD" and not a "MUST" requirement because it has been proven to be impossible. [HALTINGPROBLEM])'
< 1205724226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
< 1205724232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
< 1205724264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, let's also put in a spec "Conforming programs SHOULD try to make 1+1=3"
< 1205724339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a strawman: it is probably only impossible for _some_ input documents
< 1205726857 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a small tidbit of things to come: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205723239-preview.png
< 1205727034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, steampunk.
< 1205727335 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205727463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which reminds me, in case any of you haven't noticed, that Casey and Andy has resumed.
< 1205727727 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a bonus, some character designs: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205724112-chars.png
< 1205727853 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205728435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1337.
< 1205728533 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aiming for 2-3 pages for a quick story here over the course of the next week or so, and if It turns out well, I'll think about continuations
< 1205728654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations are good.  i hear delimited ones are even better.
< 1205728656 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations?
< 1205728687 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently realized how to implement a tail-call on ppc
< 1205728736 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whats a delimited continuation?
< 1205728961 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better ? :S
< 1205728971 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they are equivalent
< 1205729287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm a bit vague on that
< 1205729390 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what to do
< 1205729724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is something like, an ordinary continuation contains the entire rest of the program, while a delimited continuation only contains it _up to a point_
< 1205729819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can do some kind of manipulation of what happens once you reach that point
< 1205729843 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1205729846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined with the usual use and even reentering of the continuation
< 1205729961 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rot-13#XSLT
< 1205730267 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we have different ideas about what a continuation is
< 1205730303 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what aspect of programming languages should I write about?
< 1205730309 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xslt is so lame
< 1205730341 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: I think you should write about genaric datastructures and how they relate to binding environments
< 1205730354 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1205730358 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a genaric datastructure is
< 1205730362 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other ideas?
< 1205730379 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a genaric "list of integer" would have only elements that are of type integer
< 1205730393 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't write about this topic though
< 1205730401 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? school?
< 1205730415 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm bored
< 1205730420 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1205730448 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then write about the most common 101 datatypes used in the industry today
< 1205730460 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[
< 1205730589 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would imagine the top 10 would be (int, string, bool, vector, list, float, hash-table, enum, exception, and possibly queues)
< 1205730641 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: why are you asking if you don't want my ideas?
< 1205730710 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: what do you want to write about?
< 1205730718 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decide
< 1205730768 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe the wisest option is not to write anything
< 1205730792 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps reading would be a better idea
< 1205732255 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205735514 0 :andydude!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205735516 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1205735570 0 :andydude!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adu
< 1205736306 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205736401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205736756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205736756 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205736756 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205737013 0 :atsampso1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205737100 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205737121 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205737351 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205737913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205737931 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205737972 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205739549 0 :andydude!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205739625 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1205739633 0 :andydude!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :adu
< 1205740799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1205740800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205742251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gooed knight"
< 1205744128 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205745155 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205746375 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205762922 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-6-149.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205763767 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205764085 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205764912 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205766559 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205766959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: the comic looks good so far
< 1205766972 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the blond guy's hair changes colour
< 1205766980 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything changes color
< 1205767057 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas using the standard technique of making everything capital letters prevents the full effect of something being called "the Apparatus"
< 1205767068 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the capital A gets lost)
< 1205767132 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted
< 1205767167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep us updated
< 1205767341 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall
< 1205769870 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205770998 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205773104 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205773587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, comic?
< 1205773593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, what comic?
< 1205773607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm, could you make an esolang of it?)
< 1205773930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205723239-preview.png
< 1205773957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by RodgerTheGreat unless my memory is like swiss cheese)
< 1205774141 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205774696 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.73.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205774737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric - Extending tetration to the reals in Brainfuck. | Logs: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | The Esoteric File Archive: http://esolangs.org/files/
< 1205774799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows = new?
< 1205774807 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird
< 1205774807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:26] [Whois] marshmallows is an operator on channels: #ALGOL
< 1205774809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that does it
< 1205774811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1205774823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently; an agent of evil
< 1205774827 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205774900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has discovered marshmallows's secret, with the help of the mighty Logs

< 1205774929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Rec a = Now a | Later (Rec a)
< 1205774930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All books are 3 characters. Check syntax and try again
< 1205774932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant
< 1205774944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix Later
< 1205774944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205774958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed o_O
< 1205775009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: your scheme is broken, by the way
< 1205775022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;1> (define (foo) (begin (define x 2) (display x) (define x 54) (display x)))
< 1205775022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;2> (foo)
< 1205775022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :254#;3>
< 1205775040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigloo is not a scheme interpreter
< 1205775043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a conforming one at least
< 1205775077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: however, remove (begin ...) and replace with ...
< 1205775082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's implicit in lambda-bodys
< 1205775088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your example becomes standard
< 1205775119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	thought provoking, original and interesting.
< 1205775121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MOTHER
< 1205775128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kicks self repeatedly as punishment

< 1205775150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? o_O
< 1205775170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: saying that :D
< 1205775171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	'Conformance checkers must check that the input document conforms when scripting is disabled, and should also check that the input document conforms when scripting is enabled. (This is only a "SHOULD" and not a "MUST" requirement because it has been proven to be impossible. [HALTINGPROBLEM])'
< 1205775175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's perfectly reasonable
< 1205775182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensuring validity is perfectly fine
< 1205775194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time it would break is pretty much when a deliberately malicious script was there
< 1205775338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	02:25:51
< 1205775338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	I am trying to decide if I should even implement closures.	02:30:50
< 1205775338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	They are so slow.
< 1205775347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closures are slow, let's go writing micro-optimized languages
< 1205775371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean jeez
< 1205775372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an esolang
< 1205775373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1205775410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: "comment..."
< 1205775414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what smalltalk does
< 1205775418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses '...' for string
< 1205775418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1205776606 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what to do
< 1205776615 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I use haskell or scheme to write a WAM in?
< 1205776625 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or C, or something else?)
< 1205776749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog. *ducks*
< 1205777091 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's bigloo?
< 1205777138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/An_article_that_contains_nothing_but_a_cut-down_version_of_itself_that_does_not_contain_itself
< 1205777143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: your scheme apparently
< 1205777148 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i know what bigloo is. I just don't understand why everybody hates it so much when it seems one of the better implementations)
< 1205777178 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general the scheme community is weird in that they hate stuff that's clearly good
< 1205777178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: because it ISN'T a scheme implementation
< 1205777189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is broken.
< 1205777197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously not 'clearly good'
< 1205777202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean it isn't? they say it's "mostly compliant"
< 1205777212 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is as good as most things
< 1205777238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: the reason your example gets that output is because bigloo is broken.
< 1205777242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigloo is also broken in countless other ways.
< 1205777247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, bigloo is not clearly good
< 1205777350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gcc broken because it supports single-line comments in C?
< 1205777381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: look, bigloo is broken
< 1205777398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but evidently you know more about scheme than me and #scheme and you must, therefore, be right when you claim that bigloo is 'clearly good' without justification
< 1205777430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's saying it's broken without justification any better than saying it's clearly good without justification?
< 1205777442 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When i said "clearly good", i mostly referred to r6rs, by the way :)
< 1205777453 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1205777454 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an unrelated issue
< 1205777471 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R6RS is great!
< 1205777482 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even matter if it's great or not so great
< 1205777488 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like eating mcdonalds everday
< 1205777490 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount of hate #scheme generates towards it is just unbelievable
< 1205777537 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: why do you say that?
< 1205777986 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't produce a rational argument, I simply feel that way
< 1205777994 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is funny though http://www.utdallas.edu/~ramakrishnan/Projects/GC_for_C/index.htm
< 1205778000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc for c is not funny...
< 1205778008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that page is
< 1205778010 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a GC
< 1205778015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but boehm's gc, for instance, is a good idea for real use
< 1205778018 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want to write one
< 1205778021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: boehm. it is great.
< 1205778026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tested, robust, very widely used..
< 1205778032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't fuzz about with pointers too much ;)
< 1205778034 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE DON’T USE THE CONTENTS OF THIS PAGE FOR PLAGIARISM
< 1205778034 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't compile for me
< 1205778039 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try again
< 1205778068 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that embedded INTERCAL code?
< 1205778075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*
< 1205778075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		<>
< 1205778075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		
< 1205778075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/
< 1205778081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*
< 1205778081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the source code of our collector. Save this file in the name "GC.h" and gothrough the "Read_me.pdf" and "User_Manual.pdf" file for more details.
< 1205778081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/
< 1205778092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it has excessive whitespace and each stdlib include file is extensively documented
< 1205778113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR EXAMPLE:
< 1205778113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*
< 1205778114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  This header file is included inorder to enable us to do string operations
< 1205778114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/
< 1205778114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include 
< 1205778145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: their malloc printf's when it can't allocate
< 1205778147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		if(gc_ptr == NULL)
< 1205778147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		{
< 1205778147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			/* return NULL */
< 1205778147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			printf("\nYour Request cannot be satisfied even after Garbage Collection \n");
< 1205778147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			return NULL;		
< 1205778149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		}
< 1205778160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on incorrect calls, prompts the user
< 1205778161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		printf("\nGC_ERROR 1 : The argument for the GC_malloc function should always be positive");
< 1205778161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		printf("\nDo u want to exit or continue without allocation (y/n ) : ");
< 1205778161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		scanf(" %c",&gc_continue);
< 1205778172 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1205778204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you could use that for the befunge 'ask on div 0' thing
< 1205778204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205780384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205781195 0 :ehird`ii!n=ehird`ii@91.105.73.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205781208 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testy
< 1205781223 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo>foo sending to irc is a weird feeling
< 1205781259 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testy2
< 1205781272 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testy3
< 1205781286 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very amusing little thing.. gotta play with this some more
< 1205781371 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... how do I quit?\!
< 1205781502 0 :ehird`ii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205781727 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.73.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205781731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205783804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, err?
< 1205783809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now... how do I quit?\!?
< 1205783813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you doing?
< 1205784073 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205784241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there?
< 1205784268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a befunge interpreter runs out of memory trying to push a value on stack, what should it do? call abort() or reflect with known broken state?
< 1205784283 0 :ehird_!n=ehird@91.105.73.126 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205784443 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had a lucid dream!

< 1205784464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dreamviews.com/community/showpost.php?p=735756&postcount=104
< 1205784503 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :slereah__
< 1205784686 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205784786 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you want a medal? :P
< 1205784791 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, ais523
< 1205784809 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'You are dreaming. Do a reality check!' <-- no. I am not
< 1205784823 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not use a computer in my dreams, because that would be sad. :D
< 1205784844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: hi
< 1205784847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't either

< 1205784863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't remember having used a computer in dreams

< 1205784865 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Strangely enough, because I'm on the computer ALL THE TIME irl)
< 1205784872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently some people do
< 1205784874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I often think about programming whilst trying to fall asleep
< 1205784885 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm heavy in lucid dreams
< 1205784886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say the best solution is to reflect, but at that point the befunge program can't really do anything about the situation so might as well abort
< 1205784895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, what was " very amusing little thing.. gotta play with this some more" about?
< 1205784899 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'm carrying all the weight of my mind saying 'you're not meant to be able to do this in dreams, damnit' while walking
< 1205784906 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a file-system based FIFO irc client
< 1205784913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: context?
< 1205784917 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you cat to 'in' files and tail -f 'out' files
< 1205784920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes because I just replaced the stack array pointer will a null pointer anyway XD
< 1205784922 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a directory tree
< 1205784927 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of server/entity/in,out
< 1205784940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, link?
< 1205784944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, coolness
< 1205784950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here have code for a very simple IRC client, so that it could be translated into an esolang?
< 1205784952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: running out of memory when pushing a value on the on stack
< 1205784958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, s/the on/the/
< 1205784959 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.suckless.org/wiki/tools/irc/irc_it
< 1205784964 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: from the people who brought you wmii&dwm
< 1205784970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, tried zsh irc? or was it zirc?
< 1205784974 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, yes i do
< 1205784983 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.suckless.org/wiki/tools/irc/simple_irc_client
< 1205784986 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that convenient? ;)
< 1205784994 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: <250 lines of c
< 1205785015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, anyway there is an irc client in *pure* zsh, no external commands called
< 1205785023 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes i know
< 1205785024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can work in your shell at the same time
< 1205785025 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you about it.
< 1205785030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of hooks into the shell
< 1205785035 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you about it.
< 1205785052 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: be warned, sic isn't very nice to use
< 1205785054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, nah you didn't, I remember it was someone on #gentoo-amd64 who did
< 1205785061 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's bitchx-style - multiplexes everything into one stream
< 1205785062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I don't care particularly
< 1205785064 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get mixed up channels
< 1205785066 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1205785066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the proof of concept, really
< 1205785080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can always just start two clients for two channels and use them with different nicks
< 1205785087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what language? befunge?
< 1205785094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: INTERCAL
< 1205785094 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably befunge-98
< 1205785097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1205785099 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uhh, intercal has sockets?
< 1205785107 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot use netcat: you need stdin for user input
< 1205785143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL + PSOX has sockets!@
< 1205785154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I just found out that CLC-INTERCAL added generalised networking support
< 1205785154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(previously, networking could only be used to steal data from other INTERCAL programs)
< 1205785155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, -_-
< 1205785156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes
< 1205785160 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh shut up.
< 1205785169 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since the overhead to using psox from intercal would be painful
< 1205785174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have done it like that if it weren't for the networking library already present
< 1205785178 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ditto in just about every non-brainfuck language. don't fool yourself :))
< 1205785181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, oh why would it?
< 1205785183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ehird_: you could localise the overhead in a subroutine pretty easily
< 1205785191 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: psox is basically brainfuck-centric.
< 1205785197 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo just says it isn't for marketing potential
< 1205785216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in C-INTERCAL; CLC-INTERCAL would be harder because some ASCII characters are easier to produce than others
< 1205785219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, bf centric? how+
< 1205785222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/
< 1205785225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it uses Baudot as its character set)
< 1205785226 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try and use it, then see :)
< 1205785235 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck-centric sounds boring
< 1205785240 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is C-intercal modular/extensible/foobarbaz?
< 1205785245 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might write a SOCKET foobar.
< 1205785249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was designed mostly from the point of view of using Brainfuck, but it doesn't actually force you to use Brainfuck
< 1205785251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: pretty much
< 1205785256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, a "foobar"?
< 1205785263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm writing an FFI for it at the moment, which would make it even more extensible
< 1205785263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== intercallish for module?
< 1205785272 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much :D
< 1205785274 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdish
< 1205785281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: generally we just use library files which you literally copy into a program's source code
< 1205785297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all kept with the distribution to avoid line number clashes
< 1205785302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's sort of like CPAN, but lower tech)
< 1205785313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, couldn't be done for networking I think? would need some interpreter level support
< 1205785319 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a loopback mechanism making it usable (but not easily) in languages that take in lines and not individual characters
< 1205785323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CLC-INTERCAL has that
< 1205785346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to write a specially crafted line with the line number 666
< 1205785355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205785358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf
< 1205785359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!
< 1205785369 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's INTERCAL, what did you expect
< 1205785370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may implement it in C-INTERCAL some time soon, but I'd use the line number 1666 so as to use a line number already reserved for the compiler
< 1205785375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, not that -_-
< 1205785387 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just realised we've exausted all possible Unlambda/Underload/Overload/etc names
< 1205785389 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait
< 1205785390 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Overlambda
< 1205785392 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's left
< 1205785396 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205785406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, sidewayslambda?
< 1205785410 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess overlambda would be a 15-tier system
< 1205785416 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with things like an ffi at the very bottom
< 1205785418 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda exists?
< 1205785423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: Underlambda is just a cross between Unlambda/Underload
< 1205785424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you say line number reserved for compiler, errrrrrrrr?
< 1205785425 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ais523's new language
< 1205785425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes
< 1205785429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on the spec at the moment
< 1205785432 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that tier-1 is a glorified ffi with tcness
< 1205785436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lines 1000-1999 are for the syslib
< 1205785442 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205785449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so your program must be shorter than 1000 lines?
< 1205785453 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1205785456 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can use 2000-..
< 1205785458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, 2000-65535 are fine
< 1205785465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a LOT of whitespace lines?
< 1205785465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not every line needs a number anyway
< 1205785472 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1205785475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your line numbers needn't be in order
< 1205785476 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do '2000 foo'
< 1205785478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or contiguous
< 1205785481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: (2000) foo
< 1205785483 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205785484 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205785485 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever
< 1205785485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh line as in 10 PRINT HELLO     GOTO 10
< 1205785485 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205785485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205785497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like that
< 1205785502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the numbers needn't be in order
< 1205785504 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is there a C-INTERCAL grammar that isn't yacc/lex anywhere?
< 1205785506 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a spec for it
< 1205785509 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PRINT LOOK AROUND YOU
< 1205785522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: you can deduce it from the C-INTERCAL manual
< 1205785529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there's an IACC grammar in CLC-INTERCAL
< 1205785543 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: alternatively, how hard would it be to hack c-intercal to produce some simple output which gave start+end+token-type positions for intercal?
< 1205785544 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"reboot"
< 1205785549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: not hard
< 1205785551 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be syntax-highlighting sorted
< 1205785591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I'd planned that sort of thing already
< 1205785603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see the grammar, though, it takes lexical tie-ins to a whole new level
< 1205785612 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe it should dump it as an INTERCAL program which constructs the data structure
< 1205785613 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205785634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: you say such things in jest. Have you ever looked at CLC-INTERCAL?
< 1205785638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's full of that sort of thing
< 1205785675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL compiles to a non-esolang, therefore has to be saner
< 1205785675 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoaa, wait
< 1205785678 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tpk.i
< 1205785681 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me an ideaaaaaa
< 1205785682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but CLC-INTERCAL compiles to custom bytecode
< 1205785686 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ideaaaaaaaaaaaaa
< 1205785690 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAOCP in INTERCAL.
< 1205785696 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already one in redcode, so..
< 1205785698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAOCP?
< 1205785711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is TAOCP?
< 1205785717 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1205785725 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth you people!!!
< 1205785729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205785738 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Art of Computer Programming!
< 1205785738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've bacronymed it into "The Art Of Computer Programming", but am not sure whether I am right
< 1205785754 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, Knuth's '70-Aleph0 work
< 1205785758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, well since it is kuth, why not do TeX in intercal?
< 1205785762 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the origin of tex/
< 1205785762 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205785767 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehh, taocp is in blocks
< 1205785771 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can translate one algo at a time
< 1205785774 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tex.. sheesh
< 1205785777 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tex.web <-- tex82
< 1205785780 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hideous :D
< 1205785787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, I mean a tex processor/interpreter/whatever in intercal
< 1205785788 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is actually in an HTML document
< 1205785789 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hilarious
< 1205785794 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hideously complex.
< 1205785807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, yes both are
< 1205785814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: INTERCAL-72 acts block-structured and imperative, because all languages were back then
< 1205785822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not too hard to translate that sort of code
< 1205785831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, CLC-INTERCAL sorted out the problem by banning NEXT
< 1205785835 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um no..
< 1205785841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even in C-INTERCAL I consider using it for subroutines to be bad form
< 1205785846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can do TAOCP one at a time
< 1205785846 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheehs
< 1205785850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, err?
< 1205785867 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://impomatic.blogspot.com/
< 1205785870 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'st he redcode one
< 1205785880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, I just said coding a a program in intercal that can process TeX
< 1205785888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produce, say, *.dvi
< 1205785916 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know how complex tex is?
< 1205785920 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how quite primitive intercal is?
< 1205785922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, rather complex yes
< 1205785924 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has loads of stuff
< 1205785924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that
< 1205785927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: INTERCAL isn't primitive
< 1205785929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was why I suggested it
< 1205785931 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant it like..
< 1205785937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks that way from a read through the INTERCAL-72 manual
< 1205785937 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive as in very repetitive
< 1205785940 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do even basic stuff
< 1205785943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read a more modern manual, you'll get the hang of it
< 1205785950 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since although it has many instructions, they do not do much useful
< 1205785969 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'implement tex' is like saying 'implement c'
< 1205785975 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a little less horrific
< 1205785976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tex.web, got weird stuff in it
< 1205785979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while p≠null do
< 1205785982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf?
< 1205785984 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's html...
< 1205785988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pâ‰"?!
< 1205785989 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save it as .html
< 1205785990 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ctrl-a
< 1205785996 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copy it into a .web file
< 1205786001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you not seen a backtracking, or multithreaded, or class-oriented, or overloading and enslaving-using INTERCAL program?
< 1205786005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu
< 1205786005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you stuck in 1972?
< 1205786016 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm trying to say that the basic operations like text transforming
< 1205786017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "enslaving-using"?
< 1205786018 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are very tedious
< 1205786025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like pointers, but in reverse
< 1205786041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a CLC-INTERCAL concept that's kind of hard to explain and that I don't understand properly
< 1205786042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reverse... not sure I get what you mean?
< 1205786050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neither do I
< 1205786062 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, those chars are things like ≠
< 1205786067 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=/= if you can't see it)
< 1205786068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what are they, you maintain a intercal implementation right?
< 1205786071 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so save as html!
< 1205786074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't implement them
< 1205786078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, I got utf8 here
< 1205786083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1205786090 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: save tex.web as an html document damnit
< 1205786090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so CLC does?
< 1205786094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1205786109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only INTERCAL implementation I know that actually handles the type system properly
< 1205786124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, isn't it rather silly that it is on the internet as text/plain
< 1205786134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL's version is a statically-typed hack that usually works correctly, but with one exception that it's worth warning people against
< 1205786134 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tex.web proves that you can write good software with any tools
< 1205786210 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: knuth's webserver is bugged, so what
< 1205786225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205786233 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: or rather without... like dynamic memory allocation!
< 1205786245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers that Wikipedia refuses to serve any documents with the type text/plain because IE keeps trying to interpret it as JavaScript and running it

< 1205786257 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.classnamer.com/
< 1205786261 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's tex.web?
< 1205786268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use text/css, which in all commonly-used browsers does what text/plain ought to do
< 1205786273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: http://tug.org/texlive/devsrc/Build/source/texk/web2c/tex.web
< 1205786275 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: source to tex, circa 82
< 1205786281 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no, that's more recent
< 1205786289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still tex.web
< 1205786289 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it in an HTML file?
< 1205786295 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592
< 1205786299 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yeah someone linked it a while ago
< 1205786302 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because WEB is a literate programming system
< 1205786305 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: who cares
< 1205786308 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no, it's in a 
< 1205786311 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway
< 1205786313 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE REAL REASON
< 1205786318 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that knuth wanted to put tex.web on his website
< 1205786318 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: me since I have NFI what it is
< 1205786322 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he wrote an html document wrapping it
< 1205786325 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uploaded it
< 1205786329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: with an extra ! at the start of the program, TECO becomes a literate programming language
< 1205786329 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he uploaded as tex.web
< 1205786330 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205786335 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and his webserver serves not-.html as text/plain
< 1205786349 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: it's Knuth's TeX typesetting system, as it was in 1982
< 1205786355 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure why i would be interested in TECO :)
< 1205786367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's a classic esolang
< 1205786369 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want to learn teco. :(
< 1205786374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it wasn't intended as such originally
< 1205786385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO it's up there with BancSTAR
< 1205786390 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think things like that qualify as esolangs
< 1205786408 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205786410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BancSTAR is clearly an esolang, despite the fact that it was intended as a serious language
< 1205786413 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its code looks like noise
< 1205786417 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a language that is pure-literate
< 1205786418 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so does binary code
< 1205786418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Network Headache
< 1205786427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: TECO is binary, more or less
< 1205786431 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205786434 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about nested literate
< 1205786436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the characters in the character set, including the control codes, have meanings
< 1205786438 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right. that doesn't make it an esolang.
< 1205786442 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment>>
< 1205786449 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1205786451 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse that
< 1205786453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not being unreadable that makes something an esolang
< 1205786454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: TECO isn't !comment!code!comment!code!
< 1205786456 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment>code>comment>code<<<
< 1205786467 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like this:
< 1205786467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it amounts to that because the chances of the bits between the !s having any meaning is very low
< 1205786477 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This procedure does X, then does Y:
< 1205786493 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>X{y:int >our temp var< ...}$<
< 1205786494 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205786753 0 :tola!n=tola@82-36-97-250.cable.ubr01.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205786974 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perl global variable initialized to false
< 1205786975 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick!
< 1205786976 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205786978 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait
< 1205786984 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initalized to true
< 1205787009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: $]
< 1205787018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the version number, which is not false, and therefore true
< 1205787026 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow
< 1205787027 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205787040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you happen to be using Perl version 0, which doesn't exist
< 1205787077 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: multiple statements in one expression?
< 1205787087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do{statement;statement;}
< 1205787093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last statement gives the value of the expression
< 1205787113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and those braces don't count as braces for any purpose but for delimiting the do
< 1205787122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't be redo'ne, for instance
< 1205787129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can put a real pair of braces inside them if you like
< 1205787202 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (??{$foo})
< 1205787203 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1205787204 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1205787208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205787249 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION received this : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Ada2.jpg

< 1205787250 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205787304 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastebin.ca/946562 this would be the ugliest perl ever if it actually worked
< 1205787318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: you've never seen ugly Perl, obviously
< 1205787351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... you can't /assign/ to the version number
< 1205787353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes classnamer.com

< 1205787390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you never use <> again, you could instead use $/ as a default-true global
< 1205787395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the line separator)
< 1205787400 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"RecursiveLolcatMonitor"  hehehe
< 1205787407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ newline is true
< 1205787434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, newline is apparently false
< 1205787436 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have to escape $/ in a regexp obviously
< 1205787482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then use $. which is the number of times you've called <> so far
< 1205787491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be 1 by that point in the program, and you're allowed to assign to it
< 1205787518 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf use does that var have
< 1205787534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: writing line numbers in the margin of documents
< 1205787538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and translating sed into perl
< 1205787544 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here is my error
< 1205787547 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bareword found where operator expected at lit.pl line 4, near "s/[^@]*/print $.?"$0":"
$0
< 1205787580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be kind on yourself and use a different delimiter than / for the regexp
< 1205787580 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and $0 isn't interpolated, damn
< 1205787583 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1205787595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write s%[^@]*%print... for instance
< 1205787601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect $0 to be?
< 1205787609 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whole-match
< 1205787611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$&
< 1205787676 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E>1
0
1
0
1
0
1
0
1
0
1
0
1
0
< 1205787678 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it does now
< 1205787678 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205787685 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s%[^@]*%print $.?$&:"
$&
";$.=!$.%e and redo;
< 1205787817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: isn't that what it's meant to do?
< 1205787833 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um..no
< 1205787836 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to return the whole match
< 1205787849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's because s%%e will insert the result of the expression into the original string
< 1205787860 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay.. :p
< 1205787868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put ;"" at the end of the expression
< 1205787873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have no replacement
< 1205787879 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E>
helloworldabcdef
< 1205788078 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1205788085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you'll keep matching no chars at the start of the string...
< 1205788088 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my /e is broken
< 1205788089 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205788128 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205788132 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it now infiniloops
< 1205788154 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i see
< 1205788205 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really, i just want to eval some code when i see some stuff
< 1205788209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remove that stuff from the document
< 1205788224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use /eg, rather than looping
< 1205788240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't start from the start every time
< 1205788251 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then my @ replacement doesn't work
< 1205788266 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the rules have to be done one after another, in a 'try this, or this, or this' fashion
< 1205788274 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then advance how much it consumed
< 1205788319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: you aren't replacing the @s
< 1205788325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the characters between them
< 1205788334 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/@/$.=!$.;""/e and redo;
< 1205788338 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED
< 1205788376 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205788379 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want ^@
< 1205788390 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i get
< 1205788391 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloworldabcdef
< 1205788391 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1205788525 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: !$. == $.
< 1205788529 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: $. == 0
< 1205788532 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then !$. == 0
< 1205788566 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather
< 1205788571 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $.=!$. in my replacement doesn't work
< 1205788598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've never used ; in an /e replacement before, but presumably it works (I can't think of what else it would do other than error)
< 1205788692 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://collabedit.com/display?id=ae50449cf0ae8339cc7a28cf546ff29c cute. i'm going to put my code here as an experiment
< 1205788713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_: I'm too busy with other things right now to help, really
< 1205788722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask again on Thursday I'll be a lot freer
< 1205789237 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California." -Djikstra, apparently
< 1205789347 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that objects have failed
< 1205789434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should the interpreter abort() on any out of memory conditions or just on stack one?
< 1205789483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you'll find that your interpreter will abort() by itself if it runs out of memory ;-)
< 1205789487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, on stack-stack the specs seem to suggest it should work as r, but it doesn't say anything about other routines
< 1205789492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for { and } it should be r
< 1205789493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh
< 1205789513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I tried with ulimit -v, it didn't abort, it caused GC to print lots of warnings
< 1205789517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and errors
< 1205789521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't abort
< 1205789553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, C doesn't have exceptions. :-P
< 1205789561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok point taken
< 1205789573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to check some return values of mallocs for NULL indeed
< 1205789672 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: linux will kill a process -- any process -- if it runs out of memory
< 1205789681 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a 4-line malloc wrapper that abort()s on NULL.
< 1205789682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, yes I know that
< 1205789684 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use it everywhere.
< 1205789695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, well that slows things down ;P *runs*
< 1205789762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, and I would need one for calloc, and one for GC_MALLOC_ATOMIC and so on
< 1205789764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc too
< 1205789901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dumped a trace from mycology, one instruction for each line:
< 1205789903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -l trace.txt
< 1205789903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125363 trace.txt
< 1205789931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processing 125363 befunge instructions in 0.08 second, amazing what modern computers can do really
< 1205789986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of that is IO reading file in
< 1205790008 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: never use calloc()
< 1205790013 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calloc is a sign of lazy programming
< 1205790014 0 :mib_ko3mgv8a!i=5761e6f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6151f3e594c7e948 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205790018 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, it's slow, which matters to you so much
< 1205790031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, hm? slower than malloc + memset to fill with 0 after?
< 1205790046 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that in itself is pretty slow
< 1205790059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, needed that in that place hrrm
< 1205790072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rewrites

< 1205790073 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fix that place
< 1205790074 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205790108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my tests shows than around 0.06 seconds = loading file, the rest two = run program
< 1205790122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most time is spent in hash code in both cases
< 1205790137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as funge-space = hash table
< 1205790137 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?  hashing?
< 1205790140 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1205790150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with calloc?
< 1205790175 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for a start, funge-space must be initialised to 0
< 1205790188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, to ' ', i.e. 32.
< 1205790197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so assuming that 0.02 is spent at program running, my interpreter runs mycology at about 6 MHz, or slightly faster due to rounding
< 1205790198 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you can't initialize ALL Of fungespace.
< 1205790200 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, yes, that was what I meant
< 1205790209 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you just use a default value on a hash table
< 1205790215 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205790217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, of course it isn't, default value == ' '
< 1205790227 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a UniFunge
< 1205790229 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205790231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if no cell exist it returns space
< 1205790237 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a Unefunge already
< 1205790238 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like befunge, but abusing tons of unicode
< 1205790239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, unefunge does exist
< 1205790243 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: unifunge, dmanit
< 1205790244 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, unicode
< 1205790246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205790246 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outch
< 1205790248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1205790263 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is ping-pong
< 1205790278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why just 6 MHz :/
< 1205790282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so
< 1205790314 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you are obviously using a few hundred real instructions for each virtual one
< 1205790316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still pretty fast compared to bashfunge that was at most in the khz range
< 1205790317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205790372 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: write an asmfunge
< 1205790375 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205790382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, forget that!
< 1205790395 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ping-pong has a custom charset)
< 1205790410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually a faster hash library would help
< 1205790416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used gprof
< 1205790425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most time is spent in searching hash table
< 1205790461 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are using a perfect hash table, right?
< 1205790462 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1205790498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_, err? I just took a hash library that was easy to use, had a compatible license, and didn't suck too much
< 1205790502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably far from best
< 1205790505 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: xD
< 1205790508 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a finite set of keys.
< 1205790512 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo: http://www.gnu.org/software/gperf/
< 1205790519 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a known set of keys, too
< 1205790530 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: exactly
< 1205790542 0 :ehird_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird
< 1205790561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I don't know what my hash will contain, it could be any befunge program
< 1205790562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1205790574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should learn about hash tables..
< 1205790580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know exactly what keys you will have
< 1205790585 0 :mib_ko3mgv8a!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"
< 1205790591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I should learn about them
< 1205790600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically:
< 1205790610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, keys will be structs like { .x = ..., .y = ... }
< 1205790611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a finite set of keys and you know exactly what keys are possible,
< 1205790613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they are now
< 1205790616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1205790629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Please tell AnMaster his fungespace has a warped, terrible design.
< 1205790637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it probably hash
< 1205790639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has*
< 1205790640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree
< 1205790651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I got an abstraction so easy to change
< 1205790655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you use a perfect hash functino like gperf will generate for you and stop using structs for the keys you will be great
< 1205790665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have to throw out your abstraction for efficiency
< 1205790688 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205790721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm it is just a case of get/set functions and load file and wrap
< 1205790748 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the most efficient representation for funge-space is a hard problem
< 1205790765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, well it is a 2D array that need to be sparse
< 1205790772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know
< 1205790785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and negative values are valid
< 1205790790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say, -4,-6
< 1205790791 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often the middle is very dense, so an array would be good
< 1205790794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally valid
< 1205790838 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the program might store a value anywhere in funge-space, so you must be able to handle that without suddenly allocating a multi-PB array
< 1205790846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, indeed
< 1205790861 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of trie would suck for the common case...
< 1205790867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, valid ranges here are, depending on compile time options, either int32_t or int64_t
< 1205790880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both x and y
< 1205790889 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will want to exploit high code locality
< 1205790890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205790896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'mv *.pl *.py' should work :(
< 1205790900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever *-globbing.
< 1205790906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as replacement
< 1205790909 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how would that work?
< 1205790914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: move all .pl to .py
< 1205790922 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is usually a "rename" utility
< 1205790923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would need to be integrated into the shell
< 1205790923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: the * is taken as the 'common part'
< 1205790932 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup
< 1205790932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not if the shell was clever with * globbing
< 1205790943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider * to be a special variable-alike
< 1205790948 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: um, then the shell would need to know about cp
< 1205790951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no
< 1205790953 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoload zmv
< 1205790954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try rename like SimonRC said
< 1205790961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, zsher?
< 1205790970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it would work for 'foo *.pl *.py'
< 1205790974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just redefine what * means
< 1205790983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not write such a shell?
< 1205790999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lazy
< 1205791002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also how would it call it? call the function x times?
< 1205791008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or program or whatever
< 1205791014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure yet
< 1205791015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the right tool for the job
< 1205791015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205791016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man rename
< 1205791034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or just a simple loop
< 1205791039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shut UP, every time someone comes up with an idea, even if not intended to be made into practice, you yell at them  for not using your preferred toolchain
< 1205791039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::|
< 1205791050 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no he isn't
< 1205791056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for file in *.pl; do mv "$file" "$(basename "$file" .pl).py"; done
< 1205791059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT TESTED
< 1205791069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't complain if that does the wrong thing
< 1205791077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get rid of basename calll
< 1205791078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call*
< 1205791086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using parameter expansion iirc
< 1205791102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left as an exercise to the reader ;P
< 1205791127 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls >>= mv `ap` (s/*pl/*py/)
< 1205791129 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1205791140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, is that zsh?
< 1205791144 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1205791150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows, what shell?
< 1205791156 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none
< 1205791162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what is it then?
< 1205791170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's haskell with the right functions
< 1205791175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205791180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list-monad + IO i think
< 1205791187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... s/// :P
< 1205791246 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has lots of good quoting .. I wish more langs had
< 1205791325 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add regex functions to any language, but you have to use strings :/
< 1205791569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as far as I can see reading gperf docs, it seems to require a static data set, wouldn't that mean it would just match a single program, ie, mycology, or wumpus or whatever?
< 1205791595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your data set is (x,y)..
< 1205791596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,0
< 1205791597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0,1
< 1205791600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205791601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1205791601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1205791606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and negative values
< 1205791610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes yes whatever
< 1205791610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205791622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just use gperf for each data range you offer (32 and 64)
< 1205791630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use one or the other hash depending on the choice
< 1205791635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205792174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm still not sure I understand, from reading gperf docs it seems to be for strings only? :/ and where does it do ranges?
< 1205792191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, -2^31 to 2^31
< 1205792193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1205792233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have disk space for a file with 2 * 2^64 lines
< 1205792397 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205792402 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could jit stuff
< 1205792417 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initially, interpret
< 1205792445 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a region is executed a lot with no change, JIT it, but look out for changes to an "dependents" the region has
< 1205792557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, good idea, but considering mycology, most sections aren't executed several times
< 1205792575 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there will be little speed penalty
< 1205792603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, JIT would mean compile to machine code?
< 1205792609 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205792612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that fails on lots of OS
< 1205792618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like openbsd that I'm on atm
< 1205792620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'mv *.pl *.py' should work :(
< 1205792622 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the JVM manages it
< 1205792633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'ren *.pl *.py' does work in DOS
< 1205792638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does what you wanted
< 1205792643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the shell does no globbing at all
< 1205792646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, memory pages are either writable or executable but not both
< 1205792657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because DOS relies on the program to do globbing
< 1205792663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, important security feature of modern systems
< 1205792674 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so how to JVMs do JITting?
< 1205792682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but self-modifying code is often useful!
< 1205792698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, they mark themself as needing writable stack/whatever
< 1205792706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err executable and writable
< 1205792713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it is complex to do that
< 1205792715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1205792747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, also compile to machine code, well what arch
< 1205792755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86? x86_64? ppc? ppc64?
< 1205792760 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever is supported
< 1205792767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want portable code, and I use all of those arches myself
< 1205792775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I'm not good at asm either
< 1205792788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then just use a portable asm
< 1205792794 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you want me to do something 1000 JMV and .NET engineers can't and produce a protable JITter?
< 1205792795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C--, or an OISC
< 1205792797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh?
< 1205792812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C-- would be the 'serious' choice)
< 1205792829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would mean a compiler at runtime?
< 1205792832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no
< 1205792839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misunderstood C--
< 1205792843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just assembles into a range of different architectures
< 1205792843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a link for C--?
< 1205792846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a programming language
< 1205792858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, but how would that work for JIT?
< 1205792862 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205792877 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to compile code not at runtime when the code is written at runtime?
< 1205792884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cminusminus.org/
< 1205792892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... for JIT you'd probably have to precompile some example asm
< 1205792906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use the results of that as your asm for the target system
< 1205792920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1205793034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Research on C-- and Quick C-- is supported by a generous gift from Microsoft Research and by the National Science Foundation  under grant number 0325460."
< 1205793038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205793041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m$...
< 1205793107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they probably need a portable asm for some reason
< 1205793120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-- is used by ghc as well, according to Wikipedia
< 1205793140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't make sense for a JIT as far as I can see
< 1205793151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1205793152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said something
< 1205793185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: me, AnMaster, SimonRC
< 1205793266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:
< 1205793273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes?
< 1205793277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'M$' is pretty immature
< 1205793288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are
< 1205793290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs

< 1205793294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: simon peyter jones -- Haskeller and one of the founders of GHC, the main haskell compiler -- is on MS research
< 1205793298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also made c--
< 1205793311 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205793318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that would explain why ghc uses C-- and Microsoft funds it
< 1205793322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205793367 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft is evil!!!!
< 1205793373 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boycott ghc!
< 1205793375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that there are all types of people at Microsoft; the company itself is completely self-serving and acts in a way most of its employees dislike, but the employees themselves aren't all bad

< 1205793399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're mostly just confounded by the company's rules to the point where they're not allowed to do nonevil things all that often
< 1205793399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft is, first of all, Big
< 1205793412 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yhc looks really cool
< 1205793415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: and has Various Noodly Appendages
< 1205793419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see what I said about gperf
< 1205793432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, care to explain my questions?
< 1205793450 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird check it out
< 1205793479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, their marketing is evil
< 1205793481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: meh
< 1205793487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1205793489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just one word: "sourcefource"
< 1205793494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even fooled their own employees
< 1205793496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however they spell it
< 1205793517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is a Great War between God and Evil, and Linux is Good and M$$$$ and the $PEOPLE$ who use it SUCK and are EVIL!!! Why is everyone so STUPID to use it?????
< 1205793519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of the MS high-ups related to Vista was fooled by a 'Vista Capable' sticker into buying a machine that basically couldn't run it)
< 1205793526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is perhaps exaggerating to the point of stereotypes

< 1205793536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have seen this stereotype around in a very literal form :)
< 1205793557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed you are
< 1205793567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are good ppl at MS
< 1205793573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the company *IS* evil
< 1205793581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with AnMaster

< 1205793584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: evil is such a funny term
< 1205793585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define it.
< 1205793586 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it does nasty things
< 1205793591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I would have highlighted the word 'company'
< 1205793592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ais523 can do that
< 1205793603 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only to the extent that many companies would in that situation
< 1205793608 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. natural dominance
< 1205793645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: outsourcing, eh?
< 1205793647 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its software is comstimes dreadful
< 1205793651 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometimes
< 1205793664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I would define evil as the microsoft company
< 1205793673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, I'm still not sure I understand, from reading gperf docs it seems to be for strings only? :/ and where does it do ranges?
< 1205793680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, care to answer?
< 1205793696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the hash function for a range is the identity function.
< 1205793704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming its result can fit in that range that is
< 1205793715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err?
< 1205793774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# The gperf utility is tuned to execute quickly, and works quickly for small to medium size data sets (around 1000 keywords). It is extremely useful for maintaining perfect hash functions for compiler keyword sets. Several recent enhancements now enable gperf to work efficiently on much larger keyword sets (over 15,000 keywords). When processing large keyword sets it helps greatly to have over 8 megs
< 1205793774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of RAM. "
< 1205793801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that software must be old
< 1205793805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather the docs must
< 1205793865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not all computers have a lot of memory
< 1205793885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ehird laughed at the Emacs documentation for saying things like 'if you don't have a mouse'
< 1205793888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, yet I fail to see how gperf, after reading the docs, can do this
< 1205793939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good night
< 1205793940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using a computer which was too simple to run Emacs or even vim (I had to learn some minimal vi), and where I had to supply my own terminal (telnet or ssh)
< 1205793966 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205793977 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are vim's advantages over emacs?
< 1205794035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no RSI
< 1205794061 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular?
< 1205794075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: smaller keystrokes feel like they do more
< 1205794080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. more of a wizard
< 1205794094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ its range-thingy system is cool
< 1205794100 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently test show that it isn't much faster though
< 1205794103 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes
< 1205794108 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if at all faster
< 1205794114 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to tink more
< 1205794128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: most experienced vim users won't think about most of the keystrokes, I think..
< 1205794130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with emacs
< 1205794130 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can press arrow keys much faster than type complex movement commands
< 1205794136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardly
< 1205794142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 words along:
< 1205794146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-> M-> ...
< 1205794147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1205794150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4w
< 1205794156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or..
< 1205794159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-u 4 M->
< 1205794170 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host
< 1205794329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I just noticed the command line of my IRC client: konversation -caption Konversation --icon=konversation
< 1205794337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's a bit more repetitive than would be needed?
< 1205794355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: M-4 M->
< 1205794408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not M->, that's end-of-document
< 1205794411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe M-.?
< 1205794421 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, M-f
< 1205794424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I meant
< 1205794424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-->
< 1205794427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the arrow key
< 1205794443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have said f, but SimonRC said 'you can press ARROW KEYS ..'
< 1205794471 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes
< 1205794476 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo...
< 1205794479 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks

< 1205794491 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for speed purposes, vim has arrow keys
< 1205794495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're marked hjkl
< 1205794508 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just as fast as arrows to type
< 1205794518 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though switching modes will slow you down
< 1205794519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: vi was invented before arrow keys
< 1205794520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal with it
< 1205794527 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1205794531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its easier to switch modes with hjkl because your hands are closer
< 1205794538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to move your hands to the arrow keys.
< 1205794551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus at least one person -- me -- finds the layout of the arrow keys uncomfortable to use
< 1205794555 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and literally, as the i key is right next to them
< 1205794696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: soo... there's a couple advantages for you
< 1205794697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1205794705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and vim integrates with the unix way
< 1205794708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filters, etc
< 1205794721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have probably seen the recent thing about using vi(m) for a hex editor
< 1205794724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::!xxd -> to hex
< 1205794729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::!xxd -r -> and back
< 1205794740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205794743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::!%xxd
< 1205794744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::!%xxd -r
< 1205794745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's M-x hexl-mode in Emacs
< 1205794753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that's not the point
< 1205794759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that 'xxd' can know nothing about vi(m)
< 1205794761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still function fine
< 1205794780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a way to do that in Emacs somewhere too
< 1205794792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably hardly ever used, though, because Emacs purists tend to resist using any non-Emacs programs
< 1205794804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is often described as an OS. It isn't. It's a shell
< 1205794818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can imagine an OS that uses Emacs as a window manager

< 1205794821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am just demonstrating the vi philosophy
< 1205794830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205794835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think the philosophy of filters etc. is a lot nicer than emacs'
< 1205794837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve of the vi philosophy
< 1205794846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i would use vim if lisp&haskell weren't painful with it
< 1205794854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi and emacs are good for different things
< 1205794874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is very good with programming languages, for instance, but less good for conffiles and still less good for formatted text
< 1205794903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's irritating to have to type M-q regularly just to get lines to wrap properly (even with auto-fill-mode turned on)
< 1205794941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i would say that vi is very good for programming languages too
< 1205794944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need a modern vi
< 1205794968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: its main issue (also its main strength, but not in this context) is that vi doesn't know enough about the file it's editing
< 1205794994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, python-mode in Emacs can automatically move a line between all the correct possible indentations when you press tab, and tell you what they close
< 1205795003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing doesn't fit well in vi
< 1205795004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you underestimate modern vim
< 1205795009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205795017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, yes that issue needs some thinking
< 1205795017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IMO making vi more like emacs defeats the point of vi
< 1205795038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed
< 1205795043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a third option
< 1205795043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like
< 1205795044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi
< 1205795045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^
< 1205795046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|
< 1205795050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---------> ???
< 1205795051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|
< 1205795052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v
< 1205795052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs
< 1205795062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, obviously linking the top and the bottom won't work
< 1205795071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can figure out ???, you can bend them both half-way
< 1205795071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought ??? was what you did just before you profited

< 1205795075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe come up with something decent
< 1205795079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: may be so! ;)
< 1205795092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? would be a great name for a program
< 1205795100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to type it as \?\?\? in most shells
< 1205795107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't run it at all in Windows
< 1205795115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it's an invalid filename in NTFS)
< 1205795127 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe
< 1205795139 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I created a file called .url once somehow
< 1205795162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ???
< 1205795162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ld: dmd: No such file: File format not recognized
< 1205795162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
< 1205795167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows wouldn't let me name other files similar things
< 1205795188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was curious to see what would happen

< 1205795225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that the first three-char filename in alphabetical order in my home dir was 'c++' (a directory), and I also had a program c++ on my system
< 1205795237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dmd was also a directory (me experimenting with D), and so c++ couldn't link it
< 1205795284 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes (impending NFS downtime)

< 1205795284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: better - ***
< 1205795289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ***
< 1205795289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: Root.pm: command not found
< 1205795293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get fun error messages!
< 1205795309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, capital R makes it come first alphabetically
< 1205795332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I've seen a shell-script used to implement init, which used shell globbing to run all the startup scripts in priority order
< 1205795346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the filenames encode the priority in ASCIIbetical order using numbers
< 1205795353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "#!/bin/sh\nsudo rm -rf *" > ~ehird/\ \ \ \ \ .sh
< 1205795355 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes (impending NFS downtime)

< 1205795364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you make cpan sane? :/
< 1205795373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, NOT ask me about every single thing
< 1205795374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you forgot to chmod it +x
< 1205795382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen how CPAN is implemented
< 1205795384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NOT spew out 9 pages of output that reads like a conversation with a child
< 1205795387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have only had trouble with it myself
< 1205795401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was the time I tried, and failed, to install Perligata)
< 1205795412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'I didn't find X! Ok, now I'm searching for it... found X in: (9 long directories). Initializing package bootup system... continue? [y]'
< 1205795421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1205795424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Auto-install the 67 mandatory module(s) from CPAN? [y]
< 1205795428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a list of 67 modules
< 1205795431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with detailed version info
< 1205795438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: apt-get does that too
< 1205795443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one per line.
< 1205795446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205795455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did i mention it listed all the files in the package i'm installing?
< 1205795458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close to 1000 of them
< 1205795460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one per line.
< 1205795464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including all the tests.
< 1205795499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wonder if anyone's written a grep program (or sed if grep isn't powerful enough) that filters out all the useless stuff from CPAN?
< 1205795548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's called /dev/null
< 1205795567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that wouldn't filter out anything
< 1205795570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpan () { yes | cpan $* > /dev/null 2>&1 }
< 1205795592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dotstar might be more useful
< 1205795612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to create that device somehow
< 1205795620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see my function
< 1205795629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there should be a mkdev:
< 1205795637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdev /dev/foo '...'
< 1205795638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example:
< 1205795651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdev /dev/foo perl -e "print 'ima /dev;\n'"
< 1205795655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /dev/foo => ima /dev
< 1205795667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdev /dev/rot13 rot13
< 1205795677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "hi" >/dev/rot13; cat /dev/rot13 =>
< 1205795678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc
< 1205795725 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205795747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be some way to rig one of those up out of mknod and some custom kernel modules
< 1205795762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't feel like trying right now
< 1205795931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: acme:: is fun
< 1205795942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: seen Acme::Bleach?
< 1205795950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it predates Whitespace
< 1205795993 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite is 'dont'
< 1205796009 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont { foo } # foo is never executed
< 1205796020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: INTERCAL has that feature
< 1205796027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many times
< 1205796051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe(PROB) { foo } # foo is executed, probability PROB
< 1205796060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe { foo } # foo is executed, with a random probability
< 1205796066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that isn't what MAYBE does in INTERCAL!
< 1205796070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should abuse ranges
< 1205796075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe(1..0) { one out of ten times }
< 1205796081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe { ... } then picks a random range, of course. ;)
< 1205796118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an INTERCAL-named version would be double_oh_seven(PROB) { foo }
< 1205796183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although emulating INTERCAL MAYBE would be great
< 1205796197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe { ... } (store a continuation on a continuation stack, then execute ...)
< 1205796209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go_ahead; (pop a continuation from the continuation stack)
< 1205796224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can apparently do continuations in perl
< 1205796227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jifty does it apparently
< 1205796241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go_back; (if the top continuation on the continuation stack is not stale, go back to it except don't execute the maybe and mark it as stale; otherwise pop it)
< 1205796258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(popping a continuation discards it)
< 1205796262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the INTERCAL backtracking model in a nutshell
< 1205796280 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you do Prolog in INTERCAL?
< 1205796292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: I have a very unfinished Prolog-to-INTERCAL compiler somewhere
< 1205796297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any technical reason why not
< 1205796312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL has all the features needed to easily implement Prolog
< 1205796408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has a unification-like feature, but it turns out to be more confusing than useful to try to compile Prolog unification into it
< 1205796423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because INTERCAL doesn't support as many data types natively as Prolog does
< 1205796480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also because it isn't properly transitive like Prolog unification is
< 1205796505 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is crazy.....
< 1205796545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marshmallows: really? that's an odd and unique opinion
< 1205796563 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1205796563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody has ever thought that before :)
< 1205796633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the Acme:: modules appear to have no documentation
< 1205796642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found this in one of the READMEs: "If this is still here it means the programmer was too lazy to create the readme file."
< 1205796685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Acme-Lingua-EN-Inflect-Modern-0.003/lib/Acme/Lingua/EN/Inflect/Modern.pm
< 1205796710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the readme was added in a later version... I still don't understand, though, while I would need to prevent users accessing my web server on a full moon
< 1205796749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://search.cpan.org/src/GMCCAR/Acme-ManekiNeko-0.02/ManekiNeko.pm
< 1205796850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: `use less 'memory';`
< 1205796853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/src/ADAMK/Acme-BadExample-1.00/lib/Acme/BadExample.pm
< 1205796922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found in a BUGS section: "Any use of this module should be considered a bug."
< 1205796937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPAN Acme:: could have a whole qdb to itself
< 1205796939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205796940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably does, for that matter
< 1205796942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha
< 1205796948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what we need is a qdb-spawning site
< 1205796958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you enter a name, click a button, and whooomp a qdb
< 1205796972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could have All Time Tops For All QDBs
< 1205796973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similar
< 1205796981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Acme:: has a lot of esolangs in it
< 1205796999 0 :tola!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1205797018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I vow to get BadExample running!
< 1205797022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..sometime
< 1205797071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still wants to write revcat

< 1205797079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that detects what's connected to its stdout and stdin
< 1205797085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then copies its /output/ to its /input/
< 1205797109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I tried, though, I couldn't figure out how to do it
< 1205797135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to do things like revcat < src.txt | revcat | revcat >> dest.txt copies dest.txt to src.txt, as long as src.txt exists
< 1205797214 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone was trying to talk to me, but whatever it was is past my scroll buffer
< 1205797294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: nobody's mentioned your nick in the last 2 days in #esoteric
< 1205797306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not while I was here at the time (I checked my personal logs)
< 1205797310 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205797324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking clog's or cmeme's are likely to produce better results
< 1205797336 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it must've been between 10:30 am today and now
< 1205797398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er i mentioned your nick
< 1205797405 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1205797423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only to point out that i thought you were responsible for the recent comic link
< 1205797445 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the "in progress" shot?
< 1205797462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mad science Apparatus one :)
< 1205797484 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205797498 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205723239-preview.png
< 1205797907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: revcat is impossible
< 1205797918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's possible in some cases
< 1205797921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all
< 1205797931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. yes | revcat | less doesn't make a whole lot of sense
< 1205797966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT it would have to do something clever, and probably OS-dependent, to figure out what was connected to the other end of stdout and stdin
< 1205798124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, th pipe case is impossible
< 1205798127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since shells manage that internally
< 1205798142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most introspection you could do is 'a process is ripping out my insides'
< 1205798182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you get all revcat processes to check the process table to see which processes were other revcats?
< 1205798194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then send test data to see which order they were connected in?
< 1205798200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe
< 1205799429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Acme::Everything is a clever idea
< 1205799439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it autoloads any module in CPAN when the appropriate function is called
< 1205799445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like Emacs does automatically
< 1205799463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, methods, not functoins
< 1205799469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/functoins/functions/
< 1205799521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that should be Acme::Auto
< 1205799526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::Everything should load EVERYTHING
< 1205799531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees

< 1205799553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy enough, just get a list of all CPAN modules and programatically convert those into use statements
< 1205799566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... should it also import everything that can be imported from all of them>
< 1205799569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/>/?/
< 1205799858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should do everything
< 1205799868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that you could not pollute the namespace any more short of writing your own code
< 1205799881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do about clashes?
< 1205799901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION worries that the right answer may be to adopt the INTERCAL solution: "Multithread and do both"

< 1205799955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fix the clashes. :D
< 1205800081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://search.cpan.org/~stig/Acme-MemorableExit-0.28/lib/Acme/MemorableExit.pm
< 1205800164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you know you can do tail-recursion in python?
< 1205800179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I didn't know that, but it seems a reasonable feature to have
< 1205800184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Perl can tail-recures
< 1205800185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not natively
< 1205800187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but through a Cunning Hack
< 1205800189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/recures/recurse/
< 1205800196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write goto &subroutine;
< 1205800199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than calling it
< 1205800279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://rafb.net/p/lvmYvk62.html
< 1205800304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very clever little hack
< 1205800330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing recursion to iteration using exceptions
< 1205800381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1205800388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and as the example shows, it handles mututal tail recursion
< 1205800876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::HaltingProblem's BUGS: "This code does not correctly deal with the case where the machine does not halt."
< 1205801019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1205801027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~dankogai/Acme-Math-Google-0.02/lib/Acme/Math/Google.pm
< 1205801075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was looking at that /before/ you posted the link

< 1205801091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, scary
< 1205801098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/src/NWCLARK/Acme-Meta-0.02/Meta.pm
< 1205801126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this halting problem stuff is clearly getting us into a closed time loop
< 1205801197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~ambs/Acme-Lisp-0.02/lib/Acme/Lisp.pm this should not be in CPAN.
< 1205801202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, frankly, crap.
< 1205801225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::Pythonic is quite a clever idea, though
< 1205801240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like evil
< 1205801243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now all I need is a Python module to grant me {} and semicolon
< 1205801287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: been done
< 1205801290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as one of python's coding
< 1205801291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1205801294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used for utf-8 etc
< 1205801302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: python already gives you ;
< 1205801304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just ignored
< 1205801314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://timhatch.com/projects/pybraces/
< 1205801320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it let me write two commands on a line?
< 1205801414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: python already does that
< 1205801415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a; b
< 1205801430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually really useful
< 1205801478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perl is actually making stuff fun again
< 1205801478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205801493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"it's very late, I have to go home"
< 1205801828 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-192-106.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205801980 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205805765 0 :digital_me!n=digital@wikipedia/Digitalme JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205807294 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205808789 0 :theholyduck!n=theholyd@ti231210a340-0751.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205808798 0 :theholyduck!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1205809027 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205809480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!"
< 1205812489 0 :faxathisia!n=space@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205813004 0 :marshmallows!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205817658 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finished more panels:
< 1205817659 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205814038-preview2.png
< 1205817680 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing these in full color is really, really time consuming.
< 1205817811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205817814 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to anyone who's interested in this project, what would you rather see? A) gorgeous color produced at an achingly slow pace or B) Black and white, much faster
< 1205817822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gorgeous color.
< 1205817828 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs

< 1205817829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works well with the feel of this comic.
< 1205817845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, but it's damned well worth it.
< 1205817864 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I'll keep plodding along like this
< 1205817869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like the difference between a hacked together shell-script and a full REPL.
< 1205817904 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the story interesting so far, at least?
< 1205817914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite.
< 1205817926 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the digital workflow makes it really, really easy to tweak dialogue, which I adore.
< 1205818086 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205814448-panel6.png <- I may move bubbles around to make it more clear that purple and pink thing is a rocket.
< 1205818157 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just for trivia, the original versions of these are all drawn at about 3000x1000
< 1205818392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all
< 1205818393 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else have any thoughts and/or opinions?
< 1205818399 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya, Sgeo
< 1205818500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1205818585 0 :digital_me!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205818591 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. I guess not many people are awake.
< 1205818596 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Course not.
< 1205818674 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently these guys are offering me a summer internship: https://www.jnl.com/index.jsp
< 1205818737 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than nothing, I suppose. IBM and MS haven't responded to my applications. :(
< 1205818785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These guys are offering me an internship: http://www.tufts.edu/
< 1205818853 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty
< 1205818865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the head sys-admin there. . .
< 1205818868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes it pretty easy. :p
< 1205819036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah: I'll be paid to dick around on various *nixen.
< 1205819113 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd *much* rather do dev work than IT, which is one of the benefits of my offer
< 1205819137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really *mind* IT stuff that much.
< 1205819155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'd be nice to be doing dev stuff. . .
< 1205819186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, if I'd wanted to do IT I could've landed a job out of high school. I'm getting a CS degree to prove I know how to code, design and implement complex projects, and innovate.
< 1205819204 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT is akin to being an "internet janitor"
< 1205819207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *am* landing this internship out of high school. ;)
< 1205819218 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so in your case it isn't too bad
< 1205819233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since I'm going to college right afterwards. . .
< 1205819246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would not want to do IT stuff as a career.
< 1205819248 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't lose sight of your objectives and drop that job like a sack of hammers when you have the qualifications to do something better
< 1205819285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1205819303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I'm going to one day think 'Fuck college, I could do this the rest of my life!'
< 1205819321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good first job and all, but honestly, it'd be much nicer to be paid doing interesting development.
< 1205819321 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. well, I know a couple people who made that decision.
< 1205819330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kernel development or something?)
< 1205819372 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really think I want to make compilers. I wouldn't mind a job as a game designer/developer if that industry didn't completely suck to work in.
< 1205819389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, doing compilers would be nice, too.
< 1205819402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit of stuff on the grunt-work side, but not a bad thing to do at all.
< 1205819463 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I think I'm turning in.
< 1205819470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay.
< 1205819490 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one factoid before I go about my steampunk adventure... there's a reason he's called "Mister Thompson".
< 1205819503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh.
< 1205819523 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205823873 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night"
< 1205824528 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205827199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1205827200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205830435 0 :oklopol!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205830551 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205830609 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205830967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Krnknhs"
< 1205832113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205832130 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205836257 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205838097 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205838702 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205838957 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205843636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I added a sandbox mode that restricts what scripts can do, ie. no fileio (when I implement it), y reporting a subset of env variables only and some other things
< 1205843722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way the # at x=8, y=122 is executed 11333 times in mycology
< 1205843807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next is : at x=7, y=122 with a total of 5709 times
< 1205843821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 112 for both those
< 1205843828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y I mean
< 1205844418 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205844500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the bit that prints out the environment variables
< 1205844796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, aha
< 1205844811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains it, gentoo seems to like setting a lot of env variables
< 1205844823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | wc -l
< 1205844824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :85 <-- gentoo
< 1205844830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that suggests that the total strlen of your envvars is around 5709 :-P
< 1205844834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about -c
< 1205844838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | wc -l
< 1205844838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      22 <-- free bsd
< 1205844850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | wc -c
< 1205844850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5543
< 1205844857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freebsd
< 1205844859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | wc -c
< 1205844859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     443
< 1205844870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hehe :)
< 1205844876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2641 here, on windows
< 1205844897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well gentoo loves setting env variables that users don't need, I agree with that
< 1205844906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFIG_PROTECT=/var/bind /var/gopher/gophermap /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config
< 1205844910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only portage cares about that
< 1205844917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why set it in user env I wonder
< 1205844933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly to make it easier for portage apps like eix
< 1205844966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could be done in make.conf I'd suggest, though that would need some make.d, as different app should be able to install their own ones
< 1205844979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my pygopherd ebuild does XD
< 1205845174 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205845591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it seems that most time in mycology is spend on printing env variables here hehe
< 1205845618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from loading that is
< 1205845662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in fact quite a bit faster, about 0.01 seconds(!) with just printing a subset
< 1205845671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, >:#,_ isn't exactly fast
< 1205845675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not _,#! #:<
< 1205845677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205845684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION parses

< 1205845708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem with zero-terminated strings - if it was gnirts instead 0gnirts you could do k, instead
< 1205845723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/instead/instead of/
< 1205845736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep, I have nothing against using gnirts
< 1205845749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes allocating string less of a pain too
< 1205845755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when popping value I mean
< 1205845797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, this way you need to think a bit whenever you need to loop, so maybe it's better ;-)
< 1205845822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er?
< 1205845838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an esolang after all, can't be too easy
< 1205845847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. true
< 1205845906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one thing, would you think it was easy for a third party to write a new fingerprint for my interpreter? no minifunge yet, so it needs to be compiled in and added into an array, but apart from that I mean
< 1205845914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, is interface well documented
< 1205845968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can always look at the already implemented ones, it's fairly simple unless you've obfuscated something :-P
< 1205846407 0 :AnMaster_!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205846454 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205846485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1205846491 0 :AnMaster_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :AnMaster
< 1205846508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : one can always look at the already implemented ones, it's fairly simple unless you've obfuscated something :-P
< 1205846511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). <-- what did I miss?
< 1205846536 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nothing
< 1205846553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good
< 1205846585 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/
< 1205846957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faxathisia, what bot or person captures those logs?
< 1205846977 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog and cmeme
< 1205848190 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205853569 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye"
< 1205853663 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1205854783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you there?
< 1205854828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye
< 1205854843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf should o do if the width or height of the area to write is negative?
< 1205854851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output mirrored?
< 1205854856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflect?
< 1205854871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or absolute value?
< 1205854871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I thought about doing mirrored output but decided to just reflect
< 1205854877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205854890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	// undefined behaviour
< 1205854890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	// could do something tricky here like mirror and flip the area copied
< 1205854890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	// or just do a normal copy from (ox-dx, oy-dy) to (ox, oy)
< 1205854890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	// but it's more likely it's an error
< 1205854898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> reverse(); return;
< 1205854960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205854973 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205855137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "Also, note k will never, ever actually execute instruction #32, space, or ;."
< 1205855141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's up to you :-)
< 1205855147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does #32 differ from space?
< 1205855147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah?
< 1205855158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a typo
< 1205855168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or read it as "instruction #32, i.e. space, or ;."
< 1205855313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not re-entrant (feral extensions)" <-- in what sense of re-entrant? As in: calling it twice in a row gives same result?
< 1205855350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it explains in the next paragraph
< 1205855369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not clearly
< 1205855382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me it sounds like TRDS
< 1205855398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is definitely feral
< 1205855410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but would you consider MODE, or IMAP feral?
< 1205855422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat
< 1205855463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPDP?
< 1205855476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so, why?
< 1205855481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it forces me to link with -lm
< 1205855482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205855486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1205855506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I already do for BASE, because of log()
< 1205855507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my fault floating point math is considered so arcane on linux
< 1205855514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and freebsd :P
< 1205855595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for FPDP, how do you store them on stack, after all double > 32 bits iirc?
< 1205855626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Double precision, called "double" in the C language family, and "double precision" or "real*8" in Fortran. This occupies 64 bits (8 bytes) and has a significand precision of 53 bits (about 16 decimal digits)."
< 1205855643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so how on earth does CCBI does it, it got 32-bit cells right?
< 1205855666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :union { double x; struct { cellidx a, b; } }
< 1205855674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1205855683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right and that would make no sense with larger cell sizes
< 1205855690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, 64-bit
< 1205855701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compile time option here
< 1205855721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders adding a 128-bit mode just for fun, would be slow

< 1205855829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between SOCK and SCKE btw, they seem to both do sockets?
< 1205855870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCKE is two instructions added to SOCK
< 1205855888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh what ones? IPv6?
< 1205855896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember
< 1205855902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly nothing that complicated ;-)
< 1205855955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not I may add a SCK6 ;)
< 1205855963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later on I mean
< 1205858279 0 :faxathisia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"If there are any aliens, time travellers or espers here, come join me!"
< 1205858570 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ"
< 1205859161 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205859175 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone
< 1205859270 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205859363 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205860010 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205860290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo.
< 1205860349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oY
< 1205860375 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola
< 1205860826 0 :stefo!n=logixoul@stilian1.ddns.HomeLan.BG JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205860935 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205861931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, question about DIRF: what should happen if it tries to remove a directory that isn't empty?
< 1205861983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly reflect
< 1205861990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205862000 0 :stefo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205862005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs for it are so bad, rcfunge...
< 1205862110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :-)
< 1205862122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing you can do is run rcfunge and see what it does
< 1205862209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, another issue, general one, what should stuff do, in general, on a zero-length 0gnirts?
< 1205862232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they pop a 0gnirts then all they'll get is a 0
< 1205862237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's as though dealing with ""
< 1205862243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205862274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "" is exactly a terminating null and nothing else.
< 1205862277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DIRF should likely reflect on that
< 1205862286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION do not wish to know what rmdir("") would do

< 1205862457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another issue, what permissions should be set on a created directory using DIRF?
< 1205862463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it under some kind of chroot if you're scared :-P
< 1205862479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since unspecified, I'd say don't mess with em
< 1205862484 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the defaults
< 1205862492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there are no defaults, pick some.
< 1205862498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no defaults afaik
< 1205862510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       int mkdir(const char *pathname, mode_t mode);
< 1205862532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does "mkdir foo" in the shell do
< 1205862538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that is different
< 1205862544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know
< 1205862551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS
< 1205862551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       mkdir [OPTION] DIRECTORY...
< 1205862552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it certainly does have defaults
< 1205862553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       -m, --mode=MODE
< 1205862553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :              set file mode (as in chmod), not a=rwx - umask
< 1205862569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :777 & ~umask I suspect
< 1205862571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can read man pages myself, thank you very much. :-P
< 1205862578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use that
< 1205862586 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205862586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not S_IRWXU?
< 1205862596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(man sys_stat.h)
< 1205862601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up to you
< 1205862604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do whatever you want
< 1205862614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, useful for temp dir creation you know
< 1205863026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, first fingerprint that compiled correctly at first try and passed test suite at first try as well
< 1205863029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/
< 1205863034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRF that is
< 1205863082 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a random thought: would Javascript with AJAX be a viable platform for distributed computation? "Fold proteins by idling at this page"
< 1205863106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, it would be completely esoteric
< 1205863109 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one hand, it'd be slow as fuck. On the other hand, it would be easy to get machines running it
< 1205863115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript got way too bad performance
< 1205863125 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what I figured
< 1205863133 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wondered if anyone had tried it.
< 1205863134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java's a better idea for something like that
< 1205863144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as widely available and much better performance
< 1205863153 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: indeed. For some things Java's speed is comparable to C++
< 1205863153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely a native compiled app on a i486 would beat a javascript on a p4
< 1205863154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205863169 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the browser
< 1205863171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, not quite. :-P
< 1205863182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, if it is number crunching I'd suggest FORTRAN
< 1205863213 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's rather missing the point
< 1205863272 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205863312 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis
< 1205863337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, indeed
< 1205863709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : almost as widely available and much better performance <-- yeah I got java, but not for browser, as there is no such for linux amd64 yet
< 1205863718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, only server jvm or whatever it is called
< 1205864175 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads Garfield minus Garfield

< 1205864514 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205864858 0 :ais523!n=ais523@mu01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205865398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw now I got a script that generate template files for fingerprints
< 1205868086 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"template files"?
< 1205868454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1205868585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#vt"drwolh">:#,_ @
< 1205868585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >"lo le">:#,_a,@
< 1205868586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1205868609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, ie a .c file with empty functions but with right name to add a fingerprint to cfunge
< 1205868625 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205868677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, anyway tell me what the befunge program above does
< 1205868678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205868732 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hello world, of course
< 1205868735 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in parallel
< 1205868740 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fragile, I think
< 1205868748 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a good test of parallelism
< 1205868815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, not fragile if interpreter follow standard
< 1205868831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, impressive that you could decode it the way it was interleaved
< 1205868840 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, not really
< 1205868852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still have problems reading backwards in befunge

< 1205868873 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an obvious thing to say
< 1205868878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1205868879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205868942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike this version below it is "lock free" XD:
< 1205868950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#vtf2*2+"olleH">:#,_'>11p><"dlrow">:#,_'>fb+0p@
< 1205869213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should learn Befunge at some point..

< 1205869230 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or brainfuck.
< 1205869231 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205869270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, I assume he know it as iirc Sgeo wrote PSOX
< 1205869288 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, I have heard things.
< 1205869294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1205869305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, not very original example:
< 1205869307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AMOR"4#v(MCM\-+LXXX+++IV\-++.)a,@
< 1205869307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        @
< 1205869310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is no good with Brainfuck. Also, PSOX isn't meant to be Brainfuck specific

< 1205869315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need ROMA fingerprint
< 1205869868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX is meant for any Esolang.
< 1205869884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could fairly reasonably get ORK or Glass to handle PSOX.
< 1205869893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even easier there; they do objects and strings. ;p)
< 1205870017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so great for Taxi though, it expects input to come in line-by-line
< 1205870029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe loopback function means it's POSSIBLE, but it's not easy
< 1205870299 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205870837 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is a bug in that "locked" befunge
< 1205870843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, oh?
< 1205870853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, it works correctly under cfunge and ccbi here
< 1205870858 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line should end with q, not @
< 1205870867 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the second line
< 1205870870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, err, doesn't matter actually
< 1205870880 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otehrwise the first line doesn't quite finish
< 1205870892 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that will make only a little difference to the program behaviour
< 1205870928 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't enough time for the newline to be output
< 1205870930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks

< 1205870949 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1205870954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, as far as I can calculate it should finish
< 1205870957 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had my @ and q semantics backwards
< 1205870961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't the interpreter is broken
< 1205870978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, you are making some interpreter/compiler for befunge too?
< 1205870987 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at the moment
< 1205870998 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am contemplating Forth -> Befunge
< 1205871007 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is a language that flexes on the other side
< 1205871022 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it flexes to fit your platform as well as flexing to fit your solution
< 1205871040 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, meant platform and *problem*
< 1205871069 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether to make addresses be 1 or two cells in that case though
< 1205871085 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sane forths have 1-cell addresses
< 1205871101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the sheer size of funge-space makes that tricky
< 1205871215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever tried http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/life.bf in ccbi?
< 1205871218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very slow
< 1205871229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with optimized cfunge you hardly have time to see it
< 1205871244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with debug cfunge it is still faster than your ccbi binary
< 1205871244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1205871245 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"optimised" how?
< 1205871262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, -O3 -NDEBUG -profile-use
< 1205871276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and profile data was generated on mycology
< 1205871279 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205871304 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter is optimised, rather than it optimising the befunge
< 1205871310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205871356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, a quick calculation of results on mycology shows my interpreter runs mycology at around 12.5 MHz, that is excluding time to load file (that takes 6/7 of the runtime on mycology)
< 1205871387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie loading is around 0.065 and total is around 0.076
< 1205871403 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205871408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so about 0.01 second run time, most of which is hash table look up to get next instruction in fungespace
< 1205871428 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could cache the neighbours of each cell?
< 1205871434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that time it executes 125363 instructions
< 1205871446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, the way mycology runs it wouldn't help much
< 1205871455 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, but it would help on life I bet
< 1205871458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about making the interpreter threaded and do some kind of prefetch?
< 1205871469 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :threaded?
< 1205871475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, -pthread
< 1205871489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-lpthread at link time too
< 1205871495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that help?
< 1205871507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one thread fetches instructions and another executes them
< 1205871515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, no idea, too tired really ;P
< 1205871517 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that would help
< 1205871523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was thinking of CPU with pipeline
< 1205871530 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would need to switch every befung instruction
< 1205871530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever
< 1205871539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, hm?
< 1205871542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1205871543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1205871568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe do some cache line thing? ie, cache lines into static arrays in some way
< 1205871594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, anyway I still beat CCBI by a LOT
< 1205871597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205871602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very slow on game of life
< 1205871828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how non-nested ( ) work in F98

< 1205871860 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, weird shit happens
< 1205871892 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does, according to the spec
< 1205871894 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blech
< 1205872453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, err?
< 1205872454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1205872546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bus"
< 1205872593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, how is it weird?
< 1205872601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just pop
< 1205872613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter handles it :)
< 1205872715 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205872814 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you get a funny mix of semantics of the overloaded instructions unless your pushes and pops match up to a certain degree
< 1205872827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, can be very useful
< 1205872855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you pop one that isn't loaded, but others are, you will pop one from each of those it defines
< 1205872856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205872895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if we got FOOO (provides A B and C) and BAAR (provides B C and D)
< 1205872896 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you load a1, and b1 then load a2, then load a3 and b3, then unload a2, the sematics of a is a2 and the sematics of b is b3
< 1205872900 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just confusing
< 1205872900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you load FOOO
< 1205872903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :load BAAR
< 1205872907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unload FOOO
< 1205872922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how A, B and C are from FOOO and D from BAAR
< 1205872924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205872927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now*
< 1205872928 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unloading something makes parts of it available where they previously weren't
< 1205872937 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, blither, wibble
< 1205872940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, it is how it works
< 1205872949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, called esoteric language for a reason
< 1205872950 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crazy
< 1205872974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, but way easier to implement
< 1205872986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a stack for each opcode
< 1205873014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, "NULL" unloading can be used to pop all stack once
< 1205873019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie unload all really
< 1205873037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LLUN"4(
< 1205873040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1205873041 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the stack effects are reasonably sane
< 1205873043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LLUN"4)
< 1205873044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant
< 1205873056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yes that is what I said
< 1205873062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : load BAAR
< 1205873063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unload FOOO
< 1205873063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now A, B and C are from FOOO and D from BAAR
< 1205873072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, first load FOOO
< 1205873076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do those steps
< 1205873088 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the main stack effects
< 1205873107 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( pushes the fingerprint in a different form
< 1205873115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err?
< 1205873123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( and ) does not affect normal stack
< 1205873132 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they do
< 1205873139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes partly truye
< 1205873141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true*
< 1205873152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they pop stuff, and ( pushes the loaded fingerprint back
< 1205873163 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205874256 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.88.2 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205874279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar baz bang quux zed
< 1205874330 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eki eki eki eki p'tang zoo pang!
< 1205874558 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205874834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ee ooh ah ah
< 1205874838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ting tang walla walla bing bang
< 1205875074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, new development snapshot at http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/snapshots/cfunge_r95.tar.bz2
< 1205875352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, includes some examples
< 1205875496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. Quantum TriINTERCAL? :D
< 1205875568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I get my 08 standard finished then yes y got stuff for that
< 1205875594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually already wrote it
< 1205875605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that part I mean
< 1205875613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum, and what n-nary
< 1205875697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it isn't really quantum
< 1205875704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just multithreaded a different way from C-INTERCAL
< 1205875749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? got a link?
< 1205875841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arc 2 was released recently, with the source code to the reddit clone
< 1205875843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hilariously bad
< 1205875851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why anyone would care about that
< 1205875852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there you go
< 1205875862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at CLC-INTERCAL's docs
< 1205875866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one 1767 line file, the css is inlined into a string,
< 1205875867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this:
< 1205875870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= url-kill*        nil
< 1205875871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   url-ignore*      '("internetisseriousbusiness")
< 1205875871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   comment-kill*    nil
< 1205875871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   comment-ignore*  '("http://internetisseriousbusiness"
< 1205875871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                      "http://www.internetisseriousbusiness")
< 1205875871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   ip-ban*          nil)
< 1205875879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal.freshell.org
< 1205875888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://intercal.freshell.org (making it clickable)
< 1205876147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you typoed that url
< 1205876150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot an e
< 1205876154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1205876159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://intercal.freeshell.org
< 1205876161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not very clockable
< 1205876164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clickable*
< 1205876165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you implement twoducks ala timetravel in b98?
< 1205876174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really
< 1205876181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know how painful timetravel is?
< 1205876186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would be attempting an iterative method if you did that
< 1205876190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what is twoducks?
< 1205876190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might not converge
< 1205876200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an esolang based around time travel
< 1205876207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205876210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can solve the halting problem, and is therefore uncomputable
< 1205876243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the spec isn't clear on what to do if there's a paradox, such as if you set a program up to solve its own halting problem)
< 1205876273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it strikes me that it is probably possible to write a /conforming/ HOMESPRING implementation in TwoDucks)
< 1205876308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TwoDucks is an esoteric programming language by User:Zzo38 which allows you to go back in time and change things. It is uncomputable on a Turing machine; it even allows you to solve the halting problem."
< 1205876314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not possible to make one heh
< 1205876320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes BUT
< 1205876328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:TwoDucks
< 1205876336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to make an interp that emulates some TwoDucks programs some of the time
< 1205876377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... time travel is a monad, isn't it
< 1205876387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one where the chain is accessible and modifiable
< 1205876461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ContT
< 1205876470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or rather, Cont
< 1205876473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont is the time-travel monad
< 1205876483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it uses metatime
< 1205876483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why, given IOT, you can implement TwoDucks
< 1205876491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks = IOT Cont
< 1205876497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the "Everything is self-consistent"ness of TwoDucks
< 1205876503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, no
< 1205876506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the time of the program
< 1205876523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont time travel: go back in time, kill your own father, you continue without a father but the future is changed
< 1205876538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks time travel: go back in time, you can't kill your own father because it would cause a contradiction
< 1205876561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: twoducks just specifies things to be paradoxes
< 1205876567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you can't continue as Cont
< 1205876607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TwoDucks can invert any function
< 1205876613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you can do that with Cont
< 1205876760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true
< 1205876765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but..
< 1205876767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOT Cont
< 1205876768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS twoducks
< 1205876779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the IO forces Cont to become the 'real time'
< 1205877086 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205877157 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205878052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs something like MultiMonad(IO Cont)
< 1205878059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can combine several monads together
< 1205878685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um, yes
< 1205878688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's transformers
< 1205878694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible to do it generically
< 1205878701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as it is impossible to give a Monad instance for everything
< 1205879000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I specifically wanted it without a transformer
< 1205879812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why?
< 1205879814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only way
< 1205879900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because specifying a list of monads as an argument to some sort of type function feels more elegant than endless transforms
< 1205880024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but is impossible
< 1205880720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? Make it possible!
< 1205880752 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION admires TDWTF's forum's tag cloud

< 1205880760 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one useful tag amonst them
< 1205880848 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# banana # Blame Canada # BoonDoggle # etc # Failing Flamer # Falming Failure # feeding the swampling # feeding the troll # Flaming Fa1ure # Flaming Failure # Flaming Faliure # FUCKING HELL WHY DOES IT DELETE TWO CHARACTERS WHEN I HIT BACKSPACE ONCE?  # Gee-haw!  # IWonderWhatHappensWhenYouUseAReallyReallyReallyLongTagLetsFindOutIfAnythingBreaksShallWe # Jam it!  # Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet # MasterAsshatPlan got owned!  # sort your life out SpectateSwamp # 
< 1205880861 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that was a bit big
< 1205880958 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205880959 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205881236 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, i don't get haskell's type system at all
< 1205881242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between types and values?
< 1205881429 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205881489 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the difference between types and values, in haskell?
< 1205881528 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do we need values at all? Can't we just simplify the syntax and do everything just with types?
< 1205881533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since haskell is not a dependently typed language, they are completely disjoint
< 1205881553 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value has a type, a type has a kind
< 1205881583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iir/uc there are systems called pure type systems which do just that
< 1205881604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Color = Red | Green | Blue
< 1205881605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All books are 3 characters. Check syntax and try again
< 1205881609 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1205881624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however there is a technical problem.  you want all values that are used as types to be terminating
< 1205881640 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Red; data Green; data Blue; class Color a; instance Color Red; instance Color Green; instance Color Blue
< 1205881641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All books are 3 characters. Check syntax and try again
< 1205881654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you use that phrase a lot.  i don't think it means what you think it means.
< 1205881678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a biblebot running for no good reason

< 1205881685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should rename the file so it won't autoload
< 1205881690 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first example, Red, Green, Blue are values
< 1205881695 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the second, they're types
< 1205881728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: note that while haskell's types are turing complete with a couple of flags, the type computations are very different from the value computations
< 1205881733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in both cases we combine them together into a "type", which in the second case turns out to be a type class
< 1205881745 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the distinction seems unnatural
< 1205881753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION unloads the bot

< 1205881779 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye..."
< 1205881850 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: from a description of pure type systems, my concerns seem justified
< 1205881856 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PTSs are well suited as a basis for a functional programming language because they are at the top of a hierarchy of increasingly stronger type systems. The concepts of `existential types', `rank-n polymorphism' and  `dependent types' arise naturally in functional programming languages based on the systems in this hierarchy. There is no need for ad-hoc extensions to incorporate these features."
< 1205881870 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so haskell has too much syntax
< 1205881874 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not powerful enough :)
< 1205881893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually much of haskell's weirdness may be in order to support type inference
< 1205881920 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's complexity is mostly superficial
< 1205881929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires separating some things just in order to give the compiler enough hooks
< 1205881936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1205881938 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ugly
< 1205881944 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1205881955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's ugly because you can write a compiler for it
< 1205881958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent logic
< 1205881958 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the superficial complexity is suppsosed to make it beautiful
< 1205881977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it doesn't. People keep extending the type system with more and more extensions.
< 1205881979 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.: where versus let
< 1205881983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is made by grafting things onto the hindley/damas/milner type system, which has complete type inference
< 1205881999 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but they are usually nice generalisations
< 1205882003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is HM the most general type system with complete inference?
< 1205882013 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't all put on at once
< 1205882017 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some contradict one another
< 1205882019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly so, i believe
< 1205882024 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1205882033 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a typical compiler will only have a slight extension of '98
< 1205882035 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to imagine what else it could have
< 1205882037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding almost anything makes it undecidable
< 1205882038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: hardly :)
< 1205882053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-fghc-exts is a whole new language, practically
< 1205882055 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so type classes make it undecidable?
< 1205882066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not recursive types, i presume :)
< 1205882067 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, type classes are decideable
< 1205882069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no. ALMOST anything
< 1205882082 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you turn on undecideable typeclasses
< 1205882089 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for ghc at least)
< 1205882113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: type classes have strange limitations though in order to keep it decidable
< 1205882119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1205882121 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay
< 1205882182 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda funny - turing-completeness is so easy to achieve by accident, and here you're desperately trying to avoid it
< 1205882192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :)
< 1205882219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to learn a pure type language
< 1205882226 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get some perspective
< 1205882252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day it was mentioned on #haskell how the generalized newtype deriving is inconsistent with some of the other extensions (type families, GADTs i think)
< 1205882270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205882285 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like playing nomic
< 1205882305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add more and more extensions until somebody successfully makes it undecidable without everybody noticing
< 1205882339 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1205882438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(class ToInt x where toInt :: c x -> c Int or something like that breaks newtype deriving if c is something weirder than ordinary algebraic data types, iiuc)
< 1205882562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use it to make arbitrary coercions
< 1205882579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exploit is on ghc bug trac)
< 1205882624 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1205882707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh
< 1205882714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO is more fun to make coerce with :-)
< 1205882731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but that is intended to be unsafe
< 1205882734 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205882750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is ugly :)
< 1205882764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not getting prettier i guess
< 1205882771 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO  can have type  (forall a. IO a) -> forall a. a
< 1205882774 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL!
< 1205882783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads thesis about pure type systems

< 1205882796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually type families may be considered an improvement in some ways
< 1205882845 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine is working on epigram (e-pig.org) where the typesystem has the same strength as the language: not-quite-TC-but-you-can-do-everything-sensible
< 1205882876 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: does it have types as a separate concept from values?
< 1205882891 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really
< 1205882895 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has dependant types
< 1205882991 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much stuff to learn.
< 1205883066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ePig!
< 1205883070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a PIG
< 1205883072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the INTERNET
< 1205883141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Rebooting stuff."
< 1205883190 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epigram looks shiny
< 1205883264 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205883267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205883358 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"
< 1205883563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n : Nat; X : *
< 1205883569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute
< 1205883972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1205884099 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what happens with haskell
< 1205884114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost seems like people are trying to solve the halting problem
< 1205884124 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie. they want an all-powerful type system
< 1205884176 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one hand it's impossible, on the other hand people do want it
< 1205884250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposed solution: use an all-powerful type system. If compilation doesn't end, just deal with it and rewrite your program accordingly.
< 1205884271 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still have a type-checked program if compilation does end.
< 1205884585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: large projects take ages to compile
< 1205884590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you tell the difference?
< 1205884651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, compilation that never ends is not the route to sturdy software with well-defined properties that you can test
< 1205884689 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the alternative is increasingly dirty hacks
< 1205884703 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have a non-TC system, you can always extend it to be more powerful
< 1205884710 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people will continue doing this
< 1205884720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they want a more powerful type system
< 1205884729 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus adding more and more hacks to the language
< 1205884745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: solution - dynamic typing
< 1205884746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1205884786 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitamo...
< 1205884793 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably better to start with a TC but clean type system, then add limits (such as max. recursion depth) to get guaranteed termination
< 1205884801 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how closely is the Halting problem related to Incompleteness?
< 1205884814 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: actually yeah
< 1205884831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: not
< 1205884831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is an implication at least one way i think
< 1205884846 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it is possible to create a program that enumerates all possible proofs until it finds one that proves that its input program halts...
< 1205884853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :halting problem implies incompleteness
< 1205884876 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would proove that a program halts IFF it is possible with the given proof system
< 1205884879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a complete system could ask the question of whether a program halts
< 1205884884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait
< 1205884890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no
< 1205884902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could lie and say it halts even if it doesn't
< 1205884921 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1205884930 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the halting time could be a non-standard integer, which doesn't actually exist
< 1205884945 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't hears of NISs

< 1205884948 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NSIs
< 1205885064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every logical system with infinite models has even larger ones, and an element of an extension is called non-standard
< 1205885099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is non-standard analysis which uses this to add infinitesimal reals
< 1205885169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may be overkill here.  rather, if the halting problem for an algorithm is undecidable, then it is consistent to add the axiom that it _does_ halt, although it "really" cannot
< 1205885214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any model with that axiom must contain an element that is claimed to be the stopping time...
< 1205885412 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205885457 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kewl:   http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/r2s2/
< 1205885663 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-192-106.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205885667 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1205885669 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRU?
< 1205885687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNPE
< 1205885692 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ??
< 1205885735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like to say things i don't know what mean :D
< 1205886487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: me tooo
< 1205886523 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRU = "Who Are You?", from the teleprinter code
< 1205886548 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day someone who knows about teleprinters is just going to understand that one straight away
< 1205886837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic.  now i just have to understand _why_ you would say "Who Are You?"
< 1205886885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i didn't see anyone unknown entering...
< 1205887169 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: the probability of that happening is probably getting lower by the minute :P
< 1205887548 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205887710 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205887743 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:14:23 -!- BMeph [n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-192-106.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #esoteric
< 1205887746 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:14:26 < SimonRC> hi
< 1205887749 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:14:29 < SimonRC> WRU?
< 1205887781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe BMeph hasn't been here before?
< 1205887789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to #esoteric :)
< 1205887831 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello - I channel hop a lot, so don''t mind me. :)
< 1205887853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen you in #haskell before
< 1205887873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't - those are the only channels i'm in
< 1205887897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can barely keep up with that sometimes :D
< 1205887903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMeph has been here for yonks..
< 1205887931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am generally in #esoteric, #ESO, and various channels for my lingua franca of the month
< 1205887942 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah - as soon as I started fiddling w/ FALSE, I started popping up in #eso more. :)
< 1205887944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the month?
< 1205887966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whence Volapük?
< 1205888014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha
< 1205888026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now, it's Perl
< 1205888298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi
< 1205888342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!"
< 1205888460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1205889817 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205891684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!"
< 1205893094 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1205894349 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205894547 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205894882 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205895618 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1205896649 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a language with a good type system
< 1205896656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any esolangs have good type systems?
< 1205897003 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain good.
< 1205897007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considered something wicked with monads once.  hardly got anywhere.

< 1205897043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liMonadE = unlambda with monads
< 1205897067 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think static typing is superior, so "good typing system" likely has a different meaning to me.
< 1205897098 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: monads are not good to have as a built-in feature of the type system
< 1205897114 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that part haskell got right :)
< 1205897135 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deformative: turing-complete
< 1205897151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but this was not a _sane_ monad system
< 1205897199 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a type a boolean function on all possible values, or is it a way to generate new values?
< 1205897250 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess in haskell it's clearly the latter
< 1205897337 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the programmer, it's the latter, but to the typechecker, it's more like the former...
< 1205897544 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could have a value be represented by any sexpr, and have types be boolean functions on sexprs... sounds like XML validation
< 1205898258 0 :shinku!n=r0x@189.13.122.116 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205898774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Define all types in terms of Lisp code. :p
< 1205900034 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205901389 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's what i'm saying!
< 1205901616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205901622 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205901663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::[]
< 1205901745 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Computer went to sleep"
< 1205903289 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205903583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::heh
< 1205904367 0 :shinku!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205905551 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new panels: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205901932-preview3.png
< 1205905698 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: attention
< 1205905742 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather simple stuff today because I'm feeling really tired
< 1205906050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205906201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "All the prototypes had exploded at this point" :D
< 1205906249 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205906601 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I think that last panel could make a nifty desktop: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205902974-desk9.png
< 1205906721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, new xkcd and girl genius
< 1205906741 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, too, am a reader of GG.
< 1205906747 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you read Buck Godot?
< 1205906760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1205906778 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really should- it's every bit as good as Phil's other work.
< 1205906872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant.
< 1205906877 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1205907315 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, another day, another three panels. I'm out, folks
< 1205907349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205907870 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205908381 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night"
< 1205912966 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205913599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1205913600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205914084 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205917831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205925597 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205927520 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.38 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205930933 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205932413 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@dyn-sparknet-utu.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205933073 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205933085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy
< 1205933680 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1205933795 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: moar
< 1205933826 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar wut?
< 1205933831 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comic
< 1205933842 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moar dis? http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1205901932-preview3.png
< 1205933847 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hair colour in the second panel is still non-matching
< 1205933970 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could do a little moar this morning
< 1205933985 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be at least 3 new panels by tonight, though
< 1205934016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone written a brainfuck interpreter in befunge?
< 1205934024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming befunge98 of course
< 1205934205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/nthern/esolangs/brainfuck.bf.txt, but befunge-93, and requires bignum-sized cells
< 1205934319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I guess BIGNUM would make befunge93 turing complete?
< 1205934360 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unbounded storage in a sense... I'd presume so
< 1205934375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also wtf is "Befunge97"?
< 1205934385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's befunge-97, what about it
< 1205934394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where is it's specs?
< 1205934402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere
< 1205934410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1205934418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it ever had any
< 1205934434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did it differ from befunge98?
< 1205934441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the few references to it I can find are from the esolang mailing list
< 1205934459 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1205934482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/pi2.bf
< 1205934492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it is written in befunge97 in the file
< 1205934498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had some kind of header block
< 1205934501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs under cfunge though
< 1205934519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, in terms of instructions it seems to be pretty similar to -98
< 1205934546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here we go, "befunge-97 directives" - lines starting with =
< 1205934556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, link?
< 1205934562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.internals/2004/10/msg26541.html
< 1205934584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said there's no spec, the best I can do is random googling
< 1205934598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also a befunge-96 by the way
< 1205934608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know practically nothing about that
< 1205934614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205934647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why on a perl6 list of some kind I wonder...
< 1205934661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original Befunge-93 language implementation was developed by a small but dedicated user base; the result was Befunge-96 (with concurrency), and then Befunge-97, which added a batch of new features. By 1998, a new language was born: Funge-98, which took Befunge out of two dimensions and into Hilbert space. Development of Befunge-100 (presumably the victim of an un-patched Y2K bug) allegedly continues.
< 1205934678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: looks like interpreter development, beats me
< 1205934705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm soon ready for a new release I think
< 1205934720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying to make make install work correctly, and maybe add a man page
< 1205934728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be worse; proposals for basing a Funge derivative on the surface of a Klein bottle or hex net have been mooted, but never implemented.
< 1205934733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how about that? ;-)
< 1205934733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and update README and such
< 1205934755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I know about those, mentioned in befunge98 specs, one of the latter apendixes
< 1205934779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later*
< 1205934782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other Topologies"
< 1205934784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1205934784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other Funges, such as Honefunges (hex-net topology) and Kleinefunges (Klein-bottles) are certainly possible.
< 1205934798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about implementing one or both? ;-)
< 1205934821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, that's for CCBI ;P
< 1205934852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably run too slow, I think you should do it ;-)
< 1205934891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever tried http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/eg/life.bf
< 1205934896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite amazing
< 1205934899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in befunge93 even
< 1205934901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's nice
< 1205934916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, just with ccbi it is rather slow :P
< 1205934920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs

< 1205934941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be bothered to go scouting around for hash table libraries and garbage collectors
< 1205934951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so that show IO isn't everything ;P
< 1205934955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows*
< 1205934965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in a way it still is
< 1205934968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's memory-IO
< 1205934981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, I could probably speed mine up with a better hash library
< 1205935019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time is probably spent in page faults and the like
< 1205935054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm for ccbi or cfunge?
< 1205935059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both
< 1205935091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't think it is, I mean cfunge + mycology fits into 12 MB RAM here when optimized, tested with ulimit -v
< 1205935103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't matter
< 1205935106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I got 1.5 GB I can't see why it would page fault a lot
< 1205935111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the program doesn't fit in your L2 cache :-P
< 1205935117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be swapped out on disk
< 1205935129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but that isn't same as page fault still, right?
< 1205935226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that CCBI generates 3854 page faults here
< 1205935230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does mycology wrap a lot? except when testing wrapping I mean
< 1205935233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, generated as I just ran it.
< 1205935244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? how do you check how many page faults are generated?
< 1205935247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course that doesn't mean that it's swapped out to disk.
< 1205935252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :process explorer, on windows.
< 1205935255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about *nix.
< 1205935269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1205935313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like ps shows them
< 1205935330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the program quits so fast when mycology ends.
< 1205935343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pipe it into a file or something.
< 1205935357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, ps? or cfunge?
< 1205935373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you want with the cfunge output? :-P
< 1205935401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, but point is, how do you check number of page faults at the point just before cfunge exits?
< 1205935422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps's update frequency is too slow?
< 1205935433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps is a one time command, and cfunge is too fast
< 1205935443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, getting confused with 'top'.
< 1205935457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even top updates once / second or so iirc
< 1205935471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge finishes mycology in 0.078 seconds here
< 1205935478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one simple option: add getchar() just before your return from main.
< 1205935505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually I don't return from main, I use exit() but I see what you mean
< 1205935617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compile with profiling. :-P
< 1205935665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("/home/arvid/local/emacs-cvs/lib/libcord.so.1", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
< 1205935665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open("/usr/lib64/libcord.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 3
< 1205935667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1205935669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from strace
< 1205935771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes through your LD_LIBRARY_PATH or whatever the envvar is
< 1205935777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I would gain a lot from unsetting LD_LIBRARY_PATH indeed
< 1205935799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I know that but I wonder, how much could one save in 0.0000000whatever seconds on unsetting it ;D
< 1205935833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you worry too much :-P
< 1205935949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it was a joke
< 1205936075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but even so, you do ;-)
< 1205936458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird, weird, under valgrind I enter an infinite loop after DIRF test, but under gdb or "freestanding" it works
< 1205936610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... if I change a calloc to a malloc it works. weird
< 1205937347 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205939154 0 :CakeProphet!n=CakeProp@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205939515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a question: is memory mapped IO faster than stream IO?
< 1205939557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it depends, but I'm not sure on what.
< 1205939599 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1205939603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1205939611 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....I wrong a poem in Python.
< 1205939617 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.org/24426
< 1205939639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you execute it... it outputs '("Love", "is", False)'
< 1205939656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, rewrite it in befunge?
< 1205939692 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....you couldn't do that. Not with English... words.
< 1205939703 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just use comments for everything... but that's gay.
< 1205939764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1205939865 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how about writing it in Shakespeare
< 1205939891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ever tried running the mycology readme in ccbi?
< 1205939896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite interesting
< 1205939899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? :-P
< 1205939917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at least in cfunge it prints a lot of "10"
< 1205939924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, running on plaintext isn't necessarily a smart idea :-P
< 1205939932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sand box mode of course
< 1205939939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wouldn't do any harm
< 1205939963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you still haven't implemented o I guess it's fine
< 1205939983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed I haven't yet
< 1205939996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and in sandbox mode it wouldn't be allowed
< 1205940029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're very unlucky with something like "FRID" 4 (0'/R) but... how likely is that
< 1205940036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/yZ3yEP70.html
< 1205940040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see?
< 1205940042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205940056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, without sandbox mode and o
< 1205940057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well Frid is Swedish for peace so :D
< 1205940073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but...
< 1205940075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all caps
< 1205940076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in quotes
< 1205940079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed immediately by a 4
< 1205940081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not likely
< 1205940083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed immediately by a (
< 1205940088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly :-P
< 1205940089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not likely
< 1205940136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, by the way what should ( and ) do when the count parameter is invalid/silly, ie, say, -23 for fingerprint length
< 1205940139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 184753
< 1205940167 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205940180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently mine checks it is reasonable range for what the interpreter support (1-8 items from the stack), otherwise reflects
< 1205940186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that's crap
< 1205940194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should test that in Mycology :-P
< 1205940202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what should it do?
< 1205940209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does CCBI do
< 1205940210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should pop the requested number
< 1205940220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you can't pop -2 items
< 1205940227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, negative is messed up of course
< 1205940235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anything > 0 is fine
< 1205940243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and above 8 wouldn't work considering how fingerprints are done
< 1205940245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik
< 1205940247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it would.
< 1205940258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a matter of wrapping the ints around correctly.
< 1205940279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes right you mean when the cell overflows?
< 1205940284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1205940285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would break for bignum
< 1205940292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is valid
< 1205940297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't test it
< 1205940304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but what if it first checks with y that the cell size is exactly 4
< 1205940307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, it is valid
< 1205940317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and if it isn't it can't test it ;P
< 1205940326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ such a check would take a lot of time
< 1205940332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's possible to generate such strings
< 1205940344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldn't, just find a 16-character string and use that
< 1205940370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if done correctly it could be easy to add more strings depending on y's value
< 1205940381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 4, 8, 2, 1, etc.
< 1205940388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the range check because of a issue with unloading fingerprint, when I had not popped enough items from stack to get back to the original stuff ( pushed
< 1205940391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took some time to debug
< 1205940526 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205940561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an easy way to test would be just something like 8aaa**k1aaa**;v(;# <;8wna"DOOG">:#,_
< 1205940604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what would that do?
< 1205940616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it could reflect
< 1205940618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just check if it popped 10000 values or not
< 1205940628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it lacks the fingerprint
< 1205940633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ugh
< 1205940688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the point - make sure it doesn't converge to a valid fingerprint
< 1205940702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just check for the pops
< 1205940707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence, "easy way".
< 1205940736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it could be a valid fingerprint
< 1205940753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone could make one
< 1205940757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all depends on cell size
< 1205940767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could
< 1205940782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you got bignums all fingerprint names are valid in length
< 1205940788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, replace one of the constants in the value tried
< 1205940797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. instead of aaa** use baa**
< 1205940808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you could implement that one too ;P
< 1205940811 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say, "hmm, looks like you loaded this fingerprint, that wasn't supposed to happen"
< 1205940835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but fortunately we have loops, so we can loop through 222->fff
< 1205940866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theoretically an interpreter could implement them all
< 1205940880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw now I made mine just warn about it (assuming warnings are turned on)
< 1205940896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, na"UOY WERCS">:#,_ and move on
< 1205940934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah
< 1205940967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but what should happen at negative count I wonder
< 1205940976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflect.
< 1205940978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined.
< 1205940982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested in mycology.
< 1205940990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right yep
< 1205941001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, however mycology fails to test the case of length == 0
< 1205941010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO that should reflect too
< 1205941014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine didn't before it does now
< 1205941032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead it entered a infinite loop due to while (i--) thing
< 1205941039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not infinite
< 1205941042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very very large
< 1205941057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i was int64_t or something like that
< 1205941063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and testing for negatives didn't catch that?
< 1205941089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a subtle difference between: 1)  i < 0 and 2) i<=0
< 1205941090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1205941104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called your brain - learn it, use it, it's your friend :-P
< 1205941108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep indeed
< 1205941116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IMO mycology should test it
< 1205941142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, if you have if (i < 0) followed immediately by while (--i) then I blame you :-P
< 1205941160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is what I'd call a bug
< 1205941184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it was i-- not --i
< 1205941188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that hardly matters
< 1205941205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, ( with 0 /is/ tested.
< 1205941214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is?
< 1205941216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i-- does matter.
< 1205941222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah hm
< 1205941227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because while (i--) does nothing if i is zero.
< 1205941249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original tests for ( and ) popping correctly are both done with a zero count.
< 1205941425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1205941452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why did checking for 0 fix the bug in that other program then...
< 1205941462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know...
< 1205941612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"haaaaaaaaaa"
< 1205941983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway while threading in mycology worked perfectly, my program managed to segfault on a simple threaded hello world before
< 1205941999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#vt"drwolH">:#,_ @
< 1205941999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >"lo le">:#,_a,@
< 1205942039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the IP that eneded first ended, cfunge ended up accessing the IP array out of bounds, (now fixed)
< 1205942324 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205943118 0 :vixey!n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205943120 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi
< 1205943132 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any esolangs based on π-calculus?
< 1205943154 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know of :\
< 1205943176 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there are real languages based on it, though
< 1205943182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Pict
< 1205943182 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy, iirc
< 1205943199 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1205943208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says it's not 'intentionally esoteric', though :-P
< 1205943288 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems joy is functional, i must be confusing names again
< 1205943329 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy is a functional forth
< 1205943914 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarrrr
< 1205945064 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.229.98 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205946699 0 :jix!n=jix@host-091-096-145-207.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205948186 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205950040 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factor is a functional forth
< 1205950076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joy is "concatenative"
< 1205950093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is concatenative.
< 1205950107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are factor and joy.
< 1205950150 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, good point
< 1205950159 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought concatenative had something to do with lists
< 1205951213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there?
< 1205951215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size-of-stack-stack cells containing size of each stack, listed from TOSS to BOSS (ip)
< 1205951226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one, should TOSS be at top or should BOSS?
< 1205951240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I read "from a to b" is that a is at the top
< 1205951268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm
< 1205951275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know. :-P
< 1205951385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: y acts as pick instruction if given large enough argument
< 1205951385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: ] turns flying IP right
< 1205951390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, I don't do flying ips?!
< 1205951395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't implement MODE
< 1205951418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh?
< 1205951425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, flying isn't one from MODE
< 1205951429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hover is?
< 1205951431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IP is flying if its delta isn't (1,0) (0,1) (-1,0) (0,-1)
< 1205951448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right, hard to keep flying and hovering and what not apart :P
< 1205951493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not ;-P
< 1205952725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I need some test case for y returing multiple stack sizes correctly :/ guess I code to code that myself
< 1205952821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n{aa y9k$2w00p01pn00g01g2w0w
< 1205952837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1205952837 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace 9 with the correct index of the stack sizes in y
< 1205952841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that
< 1205952849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that probably doesn't work but it's a start :-P
< 1205952952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries

< 1205953550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in any case, ccbi and cfunge give different results
< 1205953577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have working test code?
< 1205953579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at the second w
< 1205953582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not sure
< 1205953587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not
< 1205953589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1205953597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as one goes up the other one down at the second w
< 1205953610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't matter
< 1205953614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should either be equal or not
< 1205953617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205953627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can find out, we want cell 23, right?
< 1205953628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point being, test whether the stack size is equal to the expected.
< 1205953664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes and that is painful, and so is understanding your code, ie, what is all the p and g stuff in it for
< 1205953685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write your own code if that was so hard :-P
< 1205953691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was meant to help you, not confuse you >_<
< 1205953694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1205953707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the point was, get all the correct values with only one call to y.
< 1205953714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, call y.
< 1205953720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop the required number of cells to get to what we want.
< 1205953726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1205953733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check that the stack stack size is correct, since it's first.
< 1205953738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it /is/ first isn't it?)
< 1205953747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store the two stack sizes somewhere.
< 1205953752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear the rest of the stack.
< 1205953759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure they're correct.
< 1205953765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not necessary now that I think about it >_<
< 1205953775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1205953794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking something about how it pushes the old stack size versus the new and wrote something overcomplicated
< 1205953803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, the pg stuff is unnecessary.
< 1205953809 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain, anyway.
< 1205953821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (it /is/ first isn't it?) <-- that I got no idea about
< 1205953834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's in the spec
< 1205953839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this document, short stacks are generally notated left to right to mean bottom to top. The leftmost values listed in the documentation are the bottommost and the first to be pushed onto the stack. Long stacks are notated top to bottom, to mean precisely that, top to bottom..
< 1205953842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm
< 1205953860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"size-of-stack-stack cells containing size of each stack, listed from TOSS to BOSS (ip)"
< 1205953865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a short one?
< 1205953877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would mean TOSS at bottom then?
< 1205953940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug
< 1205953984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense in a way, then you can do Xk$ where X is the index of the stack size you want
< 1205954002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, looks to me like this is a... UNDEF ;)
< 1205954011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "NOT VERY DEF" at least heh
< 1205954040 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205954041 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, if every interpreter does it one way then that way is probably right
< 1205954054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so finish the test code already :-P
< 1205954070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway with a single stack it is the 23rd cell
< 1205954144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means f7+k$ to leave it at top, hrrm
< 1205954160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top one, whatever it is that is
< 1205954275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, so here
< 1205954275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1230{aaa0y2a*k$....a,@
< 1205954310 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it uses 'k' it prints one extra value due to the way some interpreters implement 'k'
< 1205954324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err what?
< 1205954353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it prints     or    
< 1205954354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it works in cfunge and ccbi I'm happy, I just want a test case for my interpreter in fact
< 1205954373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI prints 2 3 5 as does !Befunge
< 1205954395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./cfunge tmp.b98
< 1205954396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1184561 2 5 3
< 1205954396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh?
< 1205954427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, looks like k popped one to few?
< 1205954437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks

< 1205954449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it popped the correct amount
< 1205954461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it popped the incorrect amount it'd be 2 5 3 
< 1205954464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so why leave time value in there?
< 1205954473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some interpreters pop the incorrect amount
< 1205954479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we'd only get the latter two values from them.
< 1205954487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god
< 1205954496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBBI prints 2 3 5 97
< 1205954505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 from?
< 1205954515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first char of command line argument?
< 1205954532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1205954536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, 
< 1205954537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1205954617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1205954631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well is the k of those other ones broken or not?
< 1205954636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it a UNDEF case?
< 1205954644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken, of course
< 1205954647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205954657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since given 321 2k$ they return an empty stack
< 1205954672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well in the test case for my interpreter I don't need to care about that
< 1205954675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they don't skip over the argument
< 1205954679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it passes mycology so :D
< 1205954694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whatever, I just wrote the generic code so I can quickly test it against all interpreters
< 1205954701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1205954715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modifying it to be nongeneric is trivial so do whatever you want
< 1205954741 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205954770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I plan to add unit testing
< 1205954787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctest that comes with cmake look interesting
< 1205954788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead
< 1205954794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't bother, I just wrote mycology :-P
< 1205954818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few unit tests in CCBI but nothing major
< 1205954821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true, but for those special cases that mycology doesn't notice, either becase bugs are unusual or it just for some reason didn't test it
< 1205954832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls tests/
< 1205954832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumpwrap.b98  ystack-size.b98
< 1205954891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually you would need three stacks to test it correctly, hrm
< 1205954903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I store top stack before I start pushing things in y
< 1205954916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? do you expect 1 3 2 instead of 1 2 3 or 3 2 1? :-P
< 1205954922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I push size of topstack before, then in a loop all but top stack
< 1205954939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			StackPush(TOSSSize, pushStack);
< 1205954939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			for (ssize_t i = ip->stackstack->current - 1; i >= 0; i--)
< 1205954939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :				StackPush(ip->stackstack->stacks[i]->top, pushStack);
< 1205954939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			break;
< 1205954944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that is correct

< 1205954953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssize_t?
< 1205954969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or gcc complains that i will always be >= 0
< 1205954973 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1205954975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssize_t is signed size_t
< 1205954977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1205954983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU extension?
< 1205954986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nop
< 1205954988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see C99
< 1205954988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrdiff_t is the standard 'signed size_t'
< 1205955004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, look at C99
< 1205955019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it comes from there
< 1205955022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, switching to signed is not the solution to that problem :-P
< 1205955022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe POSIX
< 1205955037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, ISO/IEC 9899:1999 doesn't contain ssize_t
< 1205955039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's POSIX
< 1205955042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably)
< 1205955048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1205955051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because freebsd got it
< 1205955052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your code isn't standard :-P
< 1205955069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, It is POSIX probably
< 1205955070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhoo, the way to write that loop is
< 1205955078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (size_t i = ...; i-- > 0;)
< 1205955129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssize_t exists in man 0p for sys/types.h
< 1205955131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so POSIX
< 1205955132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1205955162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, look someone said even windows was POSIX
< 1205955164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...
< 1205955183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, I'm not having this argument again :-P
< 1205955193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, ssize_t or ptrdiff_t or whatever is not a solution
< 1205955202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm trying to avoid gnu extensions, I rely on C99 and POSIX 1003.1-2001
< 1205955207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably indeed
< 1205955255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway would that loop push things in the correct order?
< 1205955270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, depends on how your stacks are laid out
< 1205955272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile it and try
< 1205955296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it looks correct but problem is, it does the top stack separatly
< 1205955297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1205955311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a problem?
< 1205955313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd need 3 stacks to check *changes*
< 1205955336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial to make it 123 stacks if you want :-P
< 1205955420 0 :tkr!n=tkr@unaffiliated/tkr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205955441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm
< 1205955448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./ccbi ~/src/cfunge08/tests/sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98
< 1205955448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 3 4 5
< 1205955449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ ./cfunge tests/sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98
< 1205955449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 5 3 116
< 1205955453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed something breaks there
< 1205955525 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205955541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./ccbi ~/src/cfunge08/tests/sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98
< 1205955542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 6 5 4
< 1205955543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok
< 1205955624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./cfunge tests/sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98
< 1205955624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 5 4 6
< 1205955628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better but not perfect
< 1205955629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe
< 1205956110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw I actually think TOSS should be at the bottom, opposite of how ccbi does it
< 1205956119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the standard
< 1205956151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what do you think this should print: 120{1230{aaaaaa0y2a*1+k$....a,@
< 1205956167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming interpreter got k right
< 1205956188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 4 5 6 or 3 6 5 4
< 1205956218 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205956672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1205956832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no idea if you are still there, but if you figure out what version is correct of those two tell me, I got no clue
< 1205957567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I tried 3 random interpreters including FBBI and they all do it the way CCBI does it
< 1205957613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but what do you think the standard says about it?
< 1205957635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can be interpreted either way, like many other things
< 1205957663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another undef sigh
< 1205957675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'll add both versions, in #ifdef
< 1205957675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole spec is an undef
< 1205957683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's not written formally
< 1205957690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh?
< 1205957704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean not some IEEE standard, indeed
< 1205957706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in english, and like all natural languages it's inherently ambiguous
< 1205957720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, C99 standard is also in English
< 1205957744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no forth-like "$  (a b -- a)" notation or anything
< 1205957753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and it's also ambiguous in some cases :-P
< 1205957765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not as much as funge98 is
< 1205957776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C99 standard is way larger
< 1205957791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as much, because like most ISO/IEEE/ANSI/other standards it's written in as non-natural a manner as possible
< 1205957810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the funge-98 spec reads like an essay or something
< 1205957819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1205957832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so funge08 should read more like a real standard
< 1205957844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 09 considering much work it seems to be
< 1205959439 0 :tkr!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1205962169 0 :olsner!n=salparot@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.50.194.stunet.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205962640 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host)
< 1205962882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/snapshots/cfunge_r107.tar.bz2 <-- new snapshot, if everything goes well I will make 0.2.0 release next
< 1205962899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for ehird

< 1205963034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you are there, tell me if things work for you using last revision
< 1205963074 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to do formal logic in iota 

< 1205963102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, can't remember what one iota is
< 1205963106 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The excluded middle should be something like ```J`J`J`JJ```J`J`J`JJ`JJ```J`J`J`JJ```J`J`J`JJ`JJ``J`J`JJ`JJ``J`J`JJ`JJ``J`J`JJ`JJ, if I'm not mistaken
< 1205963117 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota is the compressed unlambda.
< 1205963132 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With only one combinator
< 1205963145 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's *ii in actual iota
< 1205963175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1205963238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: appears to
< 1205963294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice, with the binary from that snapshot?
< 1205963302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I use -march=pentium2 when building it, I think my 32-bit glibc may be built with -march=k8 -m32
< 1205963304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, don't know about that
< 1205963312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I got no idea if it will actually work on non-amd64 cpus
< 1205963317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did bzr pull, cmake, make
< 1205963331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right, but even then I wonder about  binary on older systems too
< 1205963356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally don't use -march of any kind
< 1205963365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in binaries you distribute
< 1205963387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, exactly
< 1205963427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I built low-march (i686) for static boehm-gc, but well static glibc is harder
< 1205963468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just dynamically link :-P
< 1205963479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Iota looks expanded not compressed to me ;)
< 1205963522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that causes issues as you can understand, I link statically to avoid those issues
< 1205963538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess some mix could work
< 1205963550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with something as commonplace as glibc it should be fine
< 1205963575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, ideally static link everything
< 1205963610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope libm is ok then too
< 1205963751 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In size maybe!
< 1205964060 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would a language without loops or conditional jumps but able to add code to itself be TC?
< 1205964263 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get far without conditionals...
< 1205964267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I made a script to build all possible 4 variants
< 1205964273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic/static 32/64
< 1205964352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i think there is such a language on the wiki
< 1205964443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/SMITH
< 1205964550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.esolangs.org == esoteric.voxelperfect.net
< 1205964552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?
< 1205964568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1205964577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are equivalent
< 1205966425 0 :jix!n=jix@host-091-096-145-207.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205968418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge 0.2.0 released
< 1205968606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/
< 1205970673 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@adsl-76-212-192-106.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205971045 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1205971053 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205972330 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205972930 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"
< 1205974417 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205974635 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"
< 1205976431 0 :shinku_!n=r0x@20150094223.user.veloxzone.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205976519 0 :shinku_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :shinkuzin
< 1205976820 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ"
< 1205977606 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1205986153 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1205986214 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205988723 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-58-116.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205990375 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"calls it a night"
< 1205990471 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all
< 1205990481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat"
< 1205990912 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm sad to say I had an extremely busy evening with even more to finish before I sleep, so I don't think I'll be able to do an additional steampunk comic update tonight. To make amends, I offer your choice of one of the following- scanned concept art, the opportunity to name a future character to be worked in at my own discretion, or a canonically accurate answer to the question of your choice about the universe, characters or
< 1205990967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I'll save those for later; need to see a bit more of the story to get a *good* question going. ;p
< 1205990987 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least pick which one you'll want
< 1205990992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question.
< 1205991022 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't hold out on me for absurd lengths of time or it'll expire
< 1205991038 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, cool
< 1205991113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's held onto for absurd lengths, I'll have comics to entertain me, anyways. :p
< 1205994599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :shinkuzin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994599 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994600 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994600 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994632 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994632 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994632 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :Overand!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994634 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
< 1205994671 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Quendus!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Deformative!n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Deformati!n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.124.243 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-58-116.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :shinkuzin!n=r0x@20150094223.user.veloxzone.com.br JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Slereah!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-84-17.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :vixey!n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :oklofok!n=oklofok@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-180-115.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :tejeez!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw1-fe7adf00-87.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :Overand!i=overand@dissociative.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994671 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994723 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205994983 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1205994988 0 :Quendus!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1205995195 0 :shinkuzin!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable
< 1205995432 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :
< 1205995709 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"
< 1205999999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1206000000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206005851 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: iota is the compressed ski, unlambda has lots of weird shit iota cannot do
< 1206006836 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)"
< 1206008599 0 :slereah_!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-59-252.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206008860 0 :slereah__!n=slereah@ANantes-252-1-82-215.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206009358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1206009622 0 :slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1206014314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gah!"
< 1206014594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got a great(?) idea for a funge fingerprint: PTHR, ie, threading using pthread so it can run on several cores on multi-cpu systems
< 1206014640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have to provide split, mutex and/or semaphore, some atomic "compare and exchange cell" and a few such things
< 1206014652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not be a tame extension of course
< 1206014806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most certainly do /not/ tie it to pthread
< 1206014812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it'll be like SGNL, and remain unimplemented.
< 1206014823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes more generic
< 1206014834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably would be pthread in my implementation
< 1206014855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course I know nothing of threading API under windows so I would ask for your input on it
< 1206014898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I
< 1206014904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use what Tango provides
< 1206014910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, just define it higher-level
< 1206014911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah ok
< 1206014915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1206014925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this is just an idea
< 1206014934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with SCK6 and a few more I got
< 1206014948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCK6 = SOCK for ipv6
< 1206014957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless SOCK can already do ipv6
< 1206014968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at rcfunge specs about that

< 1206014969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, in theory
< 1206014976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, can't remember the specs too well
< 1206015000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed I'll see what I can do when I get to that point
< 1206015091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and then there is the nightmare idea of a full featured FFI as some fingerprint ;)
< 1206015100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1206015107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't like it?
< 1206015110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I
< 1206015125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you've got working implementation + hopefully some docs I'll see :-P
< 1206015127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just to prove that I'm mad I may do it
< 1206015167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I probably couldn't do it
< 1206015212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would allow using gtk you know ;)
< 1206015231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I may implement SGNL, not sure
< 1206016909 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206018402 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ"
< 1206019252 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206019315 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206019334 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1206019358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_
< 1206019386 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIME TARADOX
< 1206019427 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-93-16.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206019559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1206019751 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206019778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently joined to #esoteric using telnet
< 1206019797 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huzzah!
< 1206019799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is being done entirely by typing raw commands
< 1206019814 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like serious stuff
< 1206019814 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas I'm on a real IRC client so I can see the results)
< 1206019842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get an idea of how IRC works so I can write my own client
< 1206019860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just read the rfc

< 1206019864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem was actually connecting in the first place without timing out; you have to type pretty quickly
< 1206019889 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1206019890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't forget to PONG
< 1206019908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and well irc is a rather easy protocol
< 1206019910 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, freenode basically never pings
< 1206019912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but soo many extensions
< 1206019919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and twists
< 1206019942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically you have too look at how ircds does things, for example consider the 005 ISUPPORT numeric
< 1206019950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in any standard that I know of
< 1206019952 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once had a bunch of bots here as ghosts like a day
< 1206019970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet parsing it is very useful tells you what modes are supported and so on
< 1206019985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, indeed freenode does TCP timeout only I think
< 1206020512 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 105 seconds.
< 1206020518 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that took me a while to figure out
< 1206020574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main problem is not being able to actually see the control-As which often fly around
< 1206020675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests doing an ACTION

< 1206020702 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just another sort of ctcp...
< 1206020734 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I never realised that /ctcp #esoteric VERSION even made sense before today
< 1206020757 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all do it!
< 1206020772 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you got that the wrong way round
< 1206020776 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received Version request from oklofok to channel #esoteric.
< 1206020800 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...?
< 1206020803 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have written /ctcp ais523_ #esoteric VERSION
< 1206020804 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did i get wrong?
< 1206020818 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your client added my nick to the request, so it only went to me
< 1206020823 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr
< 1206020828 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to use #esoteric as the nick to send to
< 1206020841 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the server adds all users on this channel in the messages it sens
< 1206020842 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sends
< 1206020849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: 105 seconds.
< 1206020850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah yes
< 1206020865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that /me == CTCP ACTION

< 1206020876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you send \1ACTION jumps\1
< 1206020877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1206020878 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doing that to a channel == doing it to each user separately
< 1206020883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a PRIVMSG
< 1206020895 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ais523: -76 seconds.
< 1206020906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to reply you do a NOTICE
< 1206020919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured that
< 1206020936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, NOTICE ais523 :\1VERSION telnet\1
< 1206020959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also how to lie to Konversation about how recently I'd been pinged
< 1206020968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also a CTCP can be embedded in a normal line
< 1206020969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the negative ping time
< 1206020974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most clients doesn't handle it
< 1206020978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some send it
< 1206020989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like normal message with a CTCP at the end, or even in the middle
< 1206021024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this message has a 
ACTION test
 CTCP in the middle
< 1206021027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however I know some ppl trying to clean up this mess and create a new standard
< 1206021039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed erc fails at it, and so does xchat
< 1206021047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is allowed
< 1206021052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently so does Konversation
< 1206021073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... it's hard typing when someone else dumps a comment in the middle of your line
< 1206021081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html
< 1206021090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe true
< 1206021103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame your client ;)
< 1206021158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this client can almost handle it, but it's a little low-tech
< 1206021159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this may interest you:
< 1206021160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irc-standard.org/
< 1206021172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1206021224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also: http://www.alien.net.au/irc/irc2numerics.html
< 1206021362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and test it on different ircds, for example inspircd and unrealircd as well as freenode's hyperion
< 1206021399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl
< 1206021722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523_testingni
< 1206021728 0 :ais523_testingni!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1206021786 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206021814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello Tritonio
< 1206021882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/befc3.php
< 1206021883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1206022176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anmaster: I am receiving pings from Freenode, but so far I think I'm answering to them properly because I'm not being booted off
< 1206022198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, as I said above, freenode doesn't care about PING
< 1206022204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only uses tcp timeout
< 1206022217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even if you don't do PONG it won't drop you as long as you are active
< 1206022236 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is /sending/ the PINGs, though
< 1206022255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is indeed
< 1206022264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't care about PONG though
< 1206022276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes freenode's ircd is weird
< 1206022280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it sends them only to inactive users
< 1206022291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allows any sort of reply as a response
< 1206022306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe, but other ircds doesn't act like that
< 1206022307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so
< 1206022326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it the right way in your client
< 1206022363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was going to

< 1206022725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"testing quitting"
< 1206022736 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523
< 1206023217 0 :ais523_!n=ais523_@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206023731 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206023762 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, Corun
< 1206023818 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services.
< 1206023903 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arr.
< 1206023905 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arr.
< 1206023911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corun: ?
< 1206023921 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pirate! :-)
< 1206023972 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206023978 0 :jix!n=jix@pD955BFE4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206023988 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it
< 1206024011 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't Talk Like A Pirate Day already, is it?
< 1206024020 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgot the colon

< 1206024031 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no. I'm always like this. :-)
< 1206024068 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko
< 1206024092 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... a properly esoteric IRC client would have options to swap nicknames with someone else
< 1206024107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, HAHA
< 1206024125 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be opt-out; anyone who forgot to add the required compiler switch could have their nickname changed without their knowledge
< 1206024126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, in what language btw?
< 1206024140 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently writing this using telnet
< 1206024153 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I intend to write an INTERCAL IRC client at some point
< 1206024153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, so you mean CTCP SWAPNICK or something like that
< 1206024162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd definitly suggest a CTCP for it
< 1206024166 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1206024178 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then both clients coordinate the required nickname changes
< 1206024205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, one would have to change to a temp nick name first
< 1206024213 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i love the swap idea
< 1206024228 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps my first unlambda project should be an irc client
< 1206024260 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny, i've been toying with esolangs for ages, but i haven't actually written anything that large in any of them
< 1206024262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, making a simple irc client is easy, making one that supports most common extensions, multiple servers and so on is hard
< 1206024270 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large as in, something you can actually call a program
< 1206024290 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only want a simple one, really
< 1206024291 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just theoretically pondered how you'd use features of different languages
< 1206024293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, oh and multiple channels
< 1206024299 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get modularity and such
< 1206024300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, consider NAMESX extension
< 1206024302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful one
< 1206024305 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kind-of hard to write anything copmlex in INTERCAL
< 1206024305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, a sec for docs
< 1206024312 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* complex
< 1206024325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, see description at http://www.inspircd.org/wiki/NAMESX_Module
< 1206024343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is UHNAMES too
< 1206024350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UHNAMES avoids un-needed who requests
< 1206024359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by returning hostmask in /names
< 1206024369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from all ircds support it, but still very useful
< 1206024390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.inspircd.org/wiki/Modules/uhnames
< 1206024392 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded
< 1206024399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no docs there
< 1206024404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lol at that one
< 1206024407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do=
< 1206024410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1206024414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes rate limiting is important
< 1206024421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally sent a NAMES command to every channel on freenode
< 1206024427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was more a ReceiveQ exceeded
< 1206024445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, wrong
< 1206024451 0 :vixey`!n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206024451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SendQ from server view
< 1206024453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I am laughing out loud at this point and getting some funny looks as a result
< 1206024460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how to every channel on freenode?
< 1206024465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAMES with no argument
< 1206024474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure that checks every channel!?
< 1206024493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't on other ircds
< 1206024493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I got several screenfulls before I was killed for the reverse flood
< 1206024500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's every non-secret channel, or something
< 1206024513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even then most ircds doesn't do that
< 1206024529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< NAMES
< 1206024529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> :quark.kuonet-ng.org 366 AnMaster * :End of /NAMES list.
< 1206024537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that server runs inspircd
< 1206024552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as I'm oper on it, I can see every channe
< 1206024554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel*
< 1206024575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If no  parameter is given, a list of all channels and their occupants is returned. At the end of this list, a list of users who are visible but either not on any channel or not on a visible channel are listed as being on `channel' "*"."
< 1206024593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably it's just a case of most IRC clients not being crazy enough to implement what the RFC suggets
< 1206024596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* suggests
< 1206024598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah another case of most ircds not following things because it is so stupid
< 1206024606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because I did /quote
< 1206024609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/clients/servers/
< 1206024613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure I just sent a raw command
< 1206024682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you probably get even weirder looks if people actually see what you're laughing at
< 1206024702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'm still laughing out loud
< 1206024711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably a record for me laughing at computer stuff
< 1206024741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's either this, or those specs for the Canon printer they had on thedailywtf.com one time, which was also pretty funny
< 1206024753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the specs were in the wrong places and the wrong units
< 1206024767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if your client lacks a /raw or /quote or some other command for it. you won't be popular
< 1206024783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't meant to be a popular client
< 1206024786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /raw is easy enough
< 1206024802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, suggestion: name commands like intercal does it
< 1206024805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so silly names
< 1206024839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I can think up such names
< 1206024912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some client/network combination does/did do that
< 1206024930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember falling off a network for typing /who
< 1206024935 0 :vixey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1206024984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm just surprised that freenode lets you even start doing that, on the basis that you would definitely be thrown off the network before it finished its output
< 1206024992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, some ircds will buffer such
< 1206025001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone decided to suddenly delete all the channels
< 1206025021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example:
< 1206025022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* stitch.chatspike.net InspIRCd-1.1.10+HerefordHopExtraDry BGHRSWdinorswx CGIJKLMNOQRSTVabcefghijklmnopqrstuvz IJLabefghjkloqv
< 1206025023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* WALLCHOPS WALLVOICES MODES=19 CHANTYPES=# PREFIX=(qaohv)~&@%+ MAP MAXCHANNELS=20 MAXBANS=60 VBANLIST NICKLEN=31 CASEMAPPING=rfc1459 STATUSMSG=@%+ CHARSET=ascii :are supported by this server
< 1206025023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* TOPICLEN=307 KICKLEN=255 MAXTARGETS=20 AWAYLEN=200 CHANMODES=Ibeg,k,JLfjl,CGKMNOQRSTVcimnprstuz FNC NETWORK=ChatSpike MAXPARA=32 ELIST=MU EXCEPTS=e INVEX=I OVERRIDE SILENCE=32 :are supported by this server
< 1206025023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* USERIP WATCH=32 SECURELIST SAFELIST NAMESX SSL=*:6668 :are supported by this server
< 1206025041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you will need to parse 005 for features
< 1206025049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :005 = the three last lines
< 1206025054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it can span multiple lines
< 1206025067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to start with I might not try to parse numerics at all
< 1206025073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is bad :/
< 1206025075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very bad
< 1206025089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to start somewhere
< 1206025093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1206025103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1206025481 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection
< 1206025756 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.82 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206026141 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206026348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe an IRC client should also have a database of servers, and how to register with the equivalent of NickServ on all the servers that supported it
< 1206026363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could create an IRC account in a more user-friendly way
< 1206026401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know that some servers don't support nickname-registering, in some cases deliberately, but many do)
< 1206026513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's pretty hard to do an IRC client without some way to select()
< 1206026534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should design C-INTERCAL so that if you have multiple threads, a WRITE IN in one thread doesn't block the other threads
< 1206026549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although then I'll have to implement network connections in it
< 1206026560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiple filehandles, like CLC-INTERCAL has
< 1206026586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think an IRC client is currently possible in either dialect without either requiring the user to repeatedly press newline,
< 1206026657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using an external program as a wrapper around the IRC client itself
< 1206026689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could split on colons to tell if a message came from the user or from the server, and merge the input streams together somehow, but output streams would need special handling
< 1206026776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the nonblocking WRITE IN method, but that would lead to interesting behaviour if two threads tried to WRITE IN the same stream simultaneously
< 1206026789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you are wrong about !Befunge having "irremovable exit code output"
< 1206026795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try --quiet option it removes it
< 1206026808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe an IRC client should also have a database of servers, and how to register with the equivalent of NickServ on all the servers that supported it
< 1206026813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that
< 1206026824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just provide some way to execute "on connect commands"
< 1206026827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the more commonly-used ones
< 1206026844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because there are so many different service type, far from all being called nickserv
< 1206026850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :account based systems
< 1206026860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you'd need a database in the client
< 1206026860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example /msg userserv login  
< 1206026873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is why you need to be able to load on-connect commands from a file
< 1206026883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use such a system
< 1206026889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I often also need to set specific modes
< 1206026892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would require the user to know what the right commnds were
< 1206026896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on some networks, oper up
< 1206026945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, way better, and, anyone using a intercal based program is very likely computer literate.
< 1206026958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not necessarily IRC literate
< 1206026985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anyway, you could compile the INTERCAL to an executable, so nobody would ever know it was INTERCAL-based without looking at the source code
< 1206027007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, still
< 1206027033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway a single service package may offer different ways depending on configuration
< 1206027050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example atheme services that I use, can be configured to be either account or nick based
< 1206027056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a mix of them
< 1206027065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes with the mix way

< 1206027138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll start with a client which just loads a network, logs on, joins one channel, and lets the user type PRIVMSGs to that channel and see PRIVMSGs sent to that channel and to the user, and password-identifies
< 1206027147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I'll expand it from there
< 1206027164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea
< 1206027197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :responding to PING commands, also, because it won't work on some servers otherwise
< 1206027207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, s/some/most/
< 1206027207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1206027412 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o
< 1206027429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ?
< 1206027444 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just oing
< 1206027476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't understand the appeal

< 1206027491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I don't understand a lot of Internet culture
< 1206027541 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i o i real life too
< 1206027544 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in
< 1206027576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you say o out of nowhere for no apparent reason every now and then?
< 1206027590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1206027597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I'm connected to IRC using telnet, so I can talk
< 1206027683 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also say "okofolor" and "ofokol" quite often
< 1206027702 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curiously, these have never been my nicks.
< 1206027714 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... okofolor may have been
< 1206027718 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :okofolor
< 1206027722 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1206027753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... an esoteric IRC client should have the ability to change its version string
< 1206027767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe prompt the user for one every time it gets a version request, and use a default if there isn't an answer within a few seconds
< 1206027832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe place version information that changes each time; for instance, have the subsubsubrevision number increase continuously over time
< 1206027846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm... an esoteric IRC client should have the ability to change its version string
< 1206027849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most do
< 1206027857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xchat for example it is a /set
< 1206027862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it is in irssi
< 1206027873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erc I think it is something in your .emacs
< 1206027875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: do those words mean anything, or do you just say them for fun?
< 1206027898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just like the feel of being able to reply anything you like to CTCPs that you get in telnet
< 1206027908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a liberating experience
< 1206027916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except you took ages
< 1206027929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you sent me three at once!
< 1206027942 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they don't mean anything
< 1206027943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes finger exist
< 1206027945 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess just fofun
< 1206027947 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for fun
< 1206027953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same as old unix finger heh
< 1206027976 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1206027996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah forgot VERSION first time
< 1206028031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLIENTINFO not CLIENTINGO, is supposed to list supported CTCPs I think
< 1206028035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 30.32 second(s)
< 1206028036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1206028065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I should have changed the timestamp by more
< 1206028079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying the timestamp back literally doesn't strike me as a very interesting thing to do
< 1206028080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, far from all clients implement more than VERSION/TIME/PING
< 1206028094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and ACTION of course
< 1206028099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is special
< 1206028114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, is that better?
< 1206028122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 18446744063813.62 second(s)
< 1206028124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1206028130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent you a second reply to the ping dated further in the future
< 1206028141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it seems to overflow
< 1206028144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around 2038 I bet
< 1206028146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, your client seems to use unsigned arithmetic for pings
< 1206028161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Konversation I was able to get negative ping times
< 1206028180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be, but in practice it normally is
< 1206028197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know this convo looks odd to those not seeing all of it
< 1206028246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was sent to #esoteric
< 1206028248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1206028255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was a notice not a ctcp at all I think
< 1206028265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a notice to #esoteric
< 1206028267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why a "CTCP conversation"?
< 1206028271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I was trying to do
< 1206028281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html
< 1206028285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a conversation with invalid CTCPs, just for fun
< 1206028295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1206028299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they came up as errors on our IRC clients
< 1206028321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a PING conversation before, though, not even sure if that's possible with most clients
< 1206028333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SOURCE
< 1206028333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is used to get information about where to get a copy of the
< 1206028333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :client. The request in a "privmsg" is simply
< 1206028333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"
< 1206028343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and the reply is zero or more CTCP replies of the form"
< 1206028348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"	\001SOURCE #:#:#\001"
< 1206028355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove all quotes
< 1206028362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"followed by an end marker
< 1206028362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	\001SOURCE\001"
< 1206028383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"where the first # is the name of an Internet host where the client can be gotten from with anonymous FTP the second # a directory names, and the third # a space separated list of files to be gotten from that directory."
< 1206028384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha
< 1206028404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said 'zero or more', so that one's easy to respond to
< 1206028409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1206028416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and very few clients implement it
< 1206028427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is any source code to me, though
< 1206028446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your DNA sequence?
< 1206028455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could look up the source code to telnet, I suppose
< 1206028462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe no need
< 1206028477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if any closed-source IRC clients implement SOURCE?
< 1206028508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, any replies?
< 1206028515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-20 16:54:57 [freenode] CTCP ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: SOURCE
< 1206028521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha
< 1206028531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only one I got :-P
< 1206028543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh btw, did you see the note about !Befunge above
< 1206028549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, cheers
< 1206028562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you need to update all of those soon
< 1206028580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, current cfunge should be included though it doesn't yet do all fingerprints
< 1206028595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain to do it
< 1206028601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather postpone it as much as possible :-P
< 1206028615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a befunge script to update it
< 1206028616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and I got a weird infinite look in TOYS with !Befunge if I used --concurrent
< 1206028623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did not match your output
< 1206028623 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some parts have to be done manually
< 1206028643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ./BefungeLyt --quiet --concurrent --98 --d=*,* --cellsize=32 ~/src/cfunge08/mycology/mycology.b98
< 1206028658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in TOYS it start outputting stuff like:
< 1206028660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:2rltB:vlpgo tCidn rA To
< 1206028660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NNNNNNNNNNNDFFFFFFFFF:00000002     rffflc
< 1206028661 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :SendQ exceeded
< 1206028663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd
< 1206028663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're missing --files
< 1206028667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and --warn
< 1206028671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but why those
< 1206028684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... even after reading the IRC RFC I'm still not sure what to reply to a PING command (not the CTCP, the one that comes from the server)
< 1206028685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should it change stuff
< 1206028693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they might explain differences to my output
< 1206028699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a PONG, obviously, but I'm not sure what the argument should be
< 1206028712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the argument that the server sent
< 1206028718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PING foo -> PONG foo
< 1206028732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and did you apply the patches from the page
< 1206028736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, because PING foo gives the name of the server
< 1206028747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter
< 1206028754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not entirely sure whether the PONG should give the name of the server or of the client
< 1206028761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you PONG with exactly what the server gives you
< 1206028768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PING :irc.cs.hut.fi
< 1206028768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> PONG :irc.cs.hut.fi
< 1206028777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some output from my bot running in this screen :-P
< 1206028795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to be up just fine
< 1206028808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that makes sense; I pinged freenode and got the same string back
< 1206028982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... cmeme didn't even bother to respond to my CTCP ping
< 1206029013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably doesn't respond to CTCPs at all
< 1206029727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: and did you apply the patches from the page
< 1206029728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did
< 1206029740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, after converting them to LF
< 1206029743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't know
< 1206029745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and finding right files
< 1206029752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as you linked to lower case names
< 1206029758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gave 404 on links
< 1206029762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??
< 1206029762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firk
< 1206029764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed upper case B
< 1206029783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks mod_dir_index or whatever it is called under apache
< 1206029784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;O
< 1206029785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P*
< 1206029791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wtf does "firk" mean?
< 1206029799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up
< 1206029806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what language
< 1206029821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: define:firm
< 1206029821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions were found for firk.
< 1206029878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"firk ding blast
< 1206029920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd that google doesn't know it
< 1206029921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah
< 1206029923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Firk
< 1206029932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, found it in urban dict btw
< 1206029933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not the meaning I use it for, of course :-P
< 1206029934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an expletive
< 1206029956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urban dict says: "something not very smart"
< 1206029956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, but it's a real word as well
< 1206030002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I prefer the webster definition ;)
< 1206030011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one
< 1206030043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fixed the patch links, cheers
< 1206030056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try klinkchecker some time btw
< 1206030081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err klinkstatus
< 1206030095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many such tools
< 1206030142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to klinkstatus "http://web.archive.org/web/20070322234225/http://www.teepop.net/fungus/" fails
< 1206030170 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's wrong
< 1206030176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it works fine here :-P
< 1206030188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it times out here
< 1206030206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.teepop.net/fungus/
< 1206030231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.tokigun.net/esolang/program_en.php fails too, times out
< 1206030256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, from web archive: "Failed Connection.
< 1206030256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're sorry. Your request failed to connect to our servers. We may be experiencing technical difficulties and suggest that you try again later.
< 1206030256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the FAQs for more info and help, or contact us."
< 1206030270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: works fine here.
< 1206030279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://dev.tokigun.net/esolang/program_en.php too?
< 1206030280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pyfunge does seem to be down.
< 1206030300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, dns fails for pyfunge
< 1206030318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google has a cache from 2 weeks ago
< 1206030413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked like last week too
< 1206030425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully temporary
< 1206030442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the download link for you, http://pandora.sapzil.info/dev/pyfunge/pyfunge-0.2-beta2-snapshot-20041227.zip
< 1206030484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, don't really care about pyfunge
< 1206030506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you don't have a copy of that zip either
< 1206030551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't
< 1206030573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that link seems to fail
< 1206030657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file Turtle
< 1206030657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turtle: RISC OS Draw file data
< 1206030663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how on earth do you view it?
< 1206030714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only programs I found were for RISC OS or the Amiga, IIRC
< 1206030726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might have been one with some form of *nix support
< 1206030734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't get it to work on cygwin, at least
< 1206030750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you couldn't verify that TURT worked then?
< 1206030756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1206030796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/tquine.php
< 1206030801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only TURT file I've seen is from CCBI :-P
< 1206030803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mentions some "Oak Draw" for windows
< 1206030828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool, didn't find that
< 1206030830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee
< 1206030847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, closed source
< 1206030855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so?
< 1206030857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likely to pollute the windows registry even more
< 1206030862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than it already is
< 1206030870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think that's unlikely :-P
< 1206030873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't get much worse
< 1206030889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's 16-bit
< 1206030894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly
< 1206030896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /can/ get worse, the Windows registry is bad but is capable of getting almost unlimitedly worse
< 1206030908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the installer seems to have died
< 1206030917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no window but the process is running
< 1206030922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't seem to be doing anything
< 1206030983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly there's no info on the net about running oak draw on windows xp >_<
< 1206031019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah
< 1206031025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the details of the format published anywhere? Presumably, if Befunge can create files in a format, it isn't too hard to read
< 1206031054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source that creates the file is C, not Befunge
< 1206031104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course, but reading that source should imply details about the format
< 1206031107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still you could reverse engineer it
< 1206031114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1206031115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sure
< 1206031124 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or simplest would be to change the source to output something more commonplace
< 1206031132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems unlikely that people would pick a very complex format for a file to be output by a Befunge interp
< 1206031134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to install RISC OS :-P
< 1206031144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here we go, running in win95 compatibility mode worked
< 1206031153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well Deewiant selected svg
< 1206031159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did it without any library
< 1206031169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it wants to install in "C:\Program Files" even though such a dir doesn't exist
< 1206031176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because I thought it'd be simplest
< 1206031183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed most old windows app do
< 1206031197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2002 O_o
< 1206031198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of c:\
< 1206031210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, as it is here, D:\Programs
< 1206031221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I never got it c:\Program but c:\Documents and Settings
< 1206031227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish windows xp
< 1206031229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the %ProgramFiles% envvar...
< 1206031236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why just use a localized name for one of them
< 1206031248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not c:\Användare och Inställningar
< 1206031251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the latter
< 1206031264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me
< 1206031270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is much harder to change BTW
< 1206031276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\Documents and settings is really hard to type into a shell
< 1206031278 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost broke my Windows trying, and ended up failing
< 1206031286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\D usually does it
< 1206031287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw do you come from the Swedish or Finnish speaking part of Finland?
< 1206031296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish
< 1206031300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cd /home :)
< 1206031301 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most :-P
< 1206031303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is even more difficult with cmd.exe than it is on POSIXy shells
< 1206031311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh ok
< 1206031313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\D works fine in cmd.exe
< 1206031357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home is a lot better, and Windows Vista picked a similar solution (C:\Users)
< 1206031364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I got a turtle file
< 1206031365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah
< 1206031375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? does it looks right?
< 1206031382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for !Befunge
< 1206031386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope
< 1206031391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh?
< 1206031402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then this program is really weird
< 1206031415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't decipher the UI
< 1206031419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be it's just displaying it wrong
< 1206031423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm ok
< 1206031472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does look like there's one square
< 1206031476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's in the lower left corner
< 1206031481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else
< 1206031494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird
< 1206031496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food ->
< 1206031555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye!"
< 1206031781 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
< 1206031933 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.
< 1206031943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, what?
< 1206032068 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing! can't a guy o here anymore without being asked for a reason :O
< 1206032084 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's ever been possible
< 1206032090 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206032118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, well what did it mean?
< 1206032324 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what did it not mean
< 1206032414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i,
< 1206032417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't mean that
< 1206032933 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't?
< 1206033738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1206033970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, why does BASE give null bytes in output
< 1206033974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: N outputs 40 in base 16 as ^@28 $
< 1206033975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that
< 1206033980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ^@ = \0
< 1206034051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes

< 1206034152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1206034981 0 :jix!n=jix@78.47.212.92 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206036752 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206038158 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206038698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, you talk about that magic undocumented -O4 mode
< 1206038705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have a look at http://gcc.gnu.org/viewcvs/trunk/gcc/opts.c?view=markup
< 1206038719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 3 or greater are all the same
< 1206038736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, odd, I talked to a gcc developer that said otherwise
< 1206038751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he was just messing with you :-P
< 1206038765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and I notice a speed difference in some cases
< 1206038798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	      if (optimize_val != -1)
< 1206038798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		{
< 1206038798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		  optimize = optimize_val;
< 1206038798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		  optimize_size = 0;
< 1206038798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		}
< 1206038799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1206038814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it set optimize to any level?
< 1206038814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1206038822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1206038830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can give it -O9 if you want
< 1206038833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's all the same as -O3
< 1206038836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't actually handle the values of -O there
< 1206038840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, lower
< 1206038843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  if (optimize >= 3)
< 1206038848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will set optimize == 9 or whatever
< 1206038863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jep
< 1206038876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it only cares about >= 1, >= 2, >= 3, and nonzero
< 1206038884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in that place yes
< 1206038902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the variable optimize declared?
< 1206038911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in opts.h
< 1206038924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to
< 1206038936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags.h
< 1206038949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway something could check for 4 or higher elsewhere
< 1206039034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway *goes back trying to make i instruction work*
< 1206039362 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really want speed with gcc you have to mess around with the options for different optimization passes and things manually anyway
< 1206039396 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or use profiling but i have no experience with that
< 1206039589 0 :ais523!n=ais523@mu01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206039613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix, I do use profile guided optimizing already
< 1206039623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see how fast I can get
< 1206039633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently working at -O0 -ggdb3 though :)
< 1206039682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-g doesn't slow down programs by more than a constant AFAIR; but isn't debugging still easy at -O1?
< 1206039993 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206040387 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: i too made an ski interp in thue
< 1206040392 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1206040417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite simple, although took like 2 hours for me
< 1206040600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alright, so I grepped the whole GCC source. :-)
< 1206040611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, result?
< 1206040613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a couple of instances of 3, none of 4 or higher.
< 1206040620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1206040632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 4.3.0 BTW.
< 1206040679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that does not explain why cfunge is about 20 ms faster in average using -O4 than -O3 though
< 1206040689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked 10 times each
< 1206040692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is there a difference between the binaries?
< 1206040697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is
< 1206040724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile all the files individually with -O3 and -O4 and look at the asm
< 1206040741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I will when I got i working correctly
< 1206040744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can bother, that is
< 1206040766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just use diff to compare the asm
< 1206040836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, what else :-P
< 1206040902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... are there ANSI/VT100 escapes to save the cursor position, scroll all the screen up one line except the bottom line, write something on the penultimate line, and then restore the cursor position?
< 1206040905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed
< 1206040915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, currently my y says i is implemented and o isn't
< 1206040919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should be UNDEF
< 1206040919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206040924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that situation
< 1206040934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y claims all of the following:
< 1206040934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        That t is implemented
< 1206040934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        That i is implemented
< 1206040934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        That buffered I/O is being used
< 1206040934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        That the number of bytes per cell is 8
< 1206040937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1206040958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are legitimate reasons to allow i but not o, e.g. an interp running on a read-only file system
< 1206040969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1206040982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and in this case "because I haven't started work on o yet"
< 1206040989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other way round is less likely, but still possible (a write-only filesystem could be used, for instance, for security logging purposes)
< 1206041021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stop sending messages while I'm halfway through typing mine, it's really confusing!
< 1206041039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stop using telnet
< 1206041048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is of course why I was asking about the save-position-and-scroll codes)
< 1206041056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like using telnet...
< 1206041062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what code?
< 1206041068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use ncurses
< 1206041080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses doesn't have INTERCAL bindings ATM
< 1206041093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although using curses might be a decent way to do it in Befunge
< 1206041115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardcoding VT100 strings fits better into the INTERCAL philosophy
< 1206041117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, create bindings?
< 1206041186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: changed.
< 1206041213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the line that says "Hope the following isn't overwritten"
< 1206041213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it using the ffi I plan to write, but translating curses into INTERCAL would fit better into the INTERCAL spirit
< 1206041214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a library included with the distribution, just like the other libraries
< 1206041214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, curses doesn't require capabilities that INTERCAL can't manage, it's just writing out various binary to the terminal
< 1206041215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you
< 1206041217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't
< 1206041225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is looping in overwritten
< 1206041234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1206041240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rwrwrwrwrw
< 1206041241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd that happen
< 1206041249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no fucking clue
< 1206041258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes a dump funge space routine

< 1206041261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give a... yeah
< 1206041267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you've accidentally implemented shred?
< 1206041274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?
< 1206041294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a utility for repeatedly overwriting files to try to prevent them being undeleted
< 1206041301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I know
< 1206041306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't overwrite them
< 1206041360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that comment is to the left of the space where mycorand.bf should be loaded
< 1206041387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Hope the following isn't overwritten,v                    +55<<<<<
< 1206041387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we hit an @ and exit              >"     redro eht ni detareneg erew snoitcer
< 1206041393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so would an off by one error cause that to happen?
< 1206041395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, where'd that 'the' come from
< 1206041400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope the following isn't overwritten,v                    +55<<<<<
< 1206041401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we hit an @ and exit              >"     redro eht ni detareneg erew snoitcer
< 1206041422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm failing to see how you'd get that far, all the way to the w :-P
< 1206041439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you know, so am I
< 1206041446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is in between the two r
< 1206041448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does trace say
< 1206041455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=93 y=126: w (119)
< 1206041456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=92 y=126: e (101)
< 1206041456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=91 y=126: r (114)
< 1206041456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=92 y=126: e (101)
< 1206041456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=93 y=126: w (119)
< 1206041457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure it's that w?
< 1206041463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no it isn't
< 1206041468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not
< 1206041476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the one in the string
< 1206041477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=94 y=126:  (0)
< 1206041488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1206041492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your i is borked ;-)
< 1206041505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nop, my load routine is
< 1206041508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that isn't in i
< 1206041515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same difference
< 1206041519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does s do? I've forgotten
< 1206041529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured you'd use the same routine as to load the main space
< 1206041532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set
< 1206041533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: store character
< 1206041542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one ahead
< 1206041564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I didn't use the same as the main one only can load at 0,0
< 1206041567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a"sb   skips over the b and changes it to an a
< 1206041573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, if it could change the IP direction it might have been because it was being hit from above or below somehow
< 1206041586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so write a generic one and call that from main with the params 0,0
< 1206041595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is what I'm doing
< 1206041599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works fine at 0,0
< 1206041602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not otherwise
< 1206041607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1206041813 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i made one?
< 1206041852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: context?
< 1206041865 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"19:13:07  jix: i too made an ski interp in thue"
< 1206041897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, although may have been several months
< 1206041899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, bug no longer happens
< 1206041904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't change anything
< 1206041905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how did you deal with the nesting of things like arguments to k?
< 1206041910 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it might be
< 1206041915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-D
< 1206041920 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you are right
< 1206041923 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i worked on one
< 1206041928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, will do valgrind after I fixed "BAD: i should have pushed (60, 119) as Va"
< 1206041932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just convert everything to textual substitution.
< 1206041954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to "go past a nesting"
< 1206041958 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea whether mine is finished
< 1206041960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should space be ignored in text mode only or in binary too?
< 1206041965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I thought of that, but dealing with things like `k`k`ki is not that easy
< 1206041966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "copy a nesting to a marked"
< 1206041986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can read it, well, probably can't, but i'll link anyway
< 1206041989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, aha, not ignoring space was what caused the problem
< 1206041992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/oklopol/thue.txt i think
< 1206041993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, a copy command would do it
< 1206042011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have some my-interpreter-spesific stuff there
< 1206042021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments + it can't handle empty substitutions
< 1206042037 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206042043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just the first is specific to the interp
< 1206042054 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back all
< 1206042062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- ''kAB -> A
< 1206042062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- evaluating a k means skipping one expression, then removing an expression
< 1206042062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>''k::=A
< 1206042078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ki-interp took like 5 minutes
< 1206042091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s needed some 15 states
< 1206042126 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have two non working versions ^^
< 1206042134 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: never overwrite anything with spaces
< 1206042142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary or not
< 1206042145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1206042155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway that was what caused the problem
< 1206042167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: then i think i was faster
< 1206042169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206042176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it took you an hour
< 1206042179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: i should have pushed (90, 16) as Vb
< 1206042187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you should show what value was pushed instead
< 1206042194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you said "hmm... it's not working fully yet" or something
< 1206042199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard from you since
< 1206042210 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1206042214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should have a debugger or some sort of IO capability in the language you use, which allows you to find out :-P
< 1206042223 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped working on it that day...
< 1206042251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes of course I got a debugger
< 1206042279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: how did you do it, i mean what was your strategy?
< 1206042292 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember
< 1206042298 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have no comments in my source
< 1206042301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking making a macro language or something for thue
< 1206042301 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't working
< 1206042302 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so....
< 1206042304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :D
< 1206042325 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue basic ^^
< 1206042341 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1206042349 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nargh i have to many projects right now
< 1206042357 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't start to work on such a thing even tho i find it it interesting
< 1206042370 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even handle all the stuff i'm doing right now
< 1206042388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1206042396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have about 50 projects in my todo list
< 1206042445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem with being a human, so many ideas, so slow typing speed
< 1206042455 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1206042472 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a todo list would be one point on my todo list if i had one
< 1206042479 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it wouldn't be then...
< 1206042486 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1206042498 0 :ais523!n=ais523@mu01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206042502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradox-ad
< 1206042503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1206042505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paradox-a-day
< 1206042514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Internet connection dropped
< 1206042519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the telnet one
< 1206042524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I miss anything?
< 1206042533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:46:22]  i have about 50 projects in my todo list
< 1206042533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:10]  that's the problem with being a human, so many ideas, so slow typing speed
< 1206042533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:20]  yeah
< 1206042533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:38]  making a todo list would be one point on my todo list if i had one
< 1206042533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:45]  well it wouldn't be then...
< 1206042534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:47:52]  ouch
< 1206042552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I was using telnet, but it was my Internet connection (not just IRC) that dropped, so no client would have saved me
< 1206042564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1206042654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the "| C    K    M    V  | " stuff about
< 1206042680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1206042689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some fingerprint
< 1206042696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We'll be moving the 3x3 area starting at the 1"
< 1206042697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where
< 1206042699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOYS
< 1206042707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's documentation
< 1206042710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206042712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1206042718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P
< 1206042741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get so used to reading Mycology code that seeing a comment confuses you now, eh? :-D
< 1206042747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out
< 1206042763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nah, I just use ; around all my comments
< 1206042765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bts
< 1206042766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw*
< 1206042768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"v<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<"
< 1206042774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is those lines about
< 1206042780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where
< 1206042790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before fingerprints
< 1206042793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to miss
< 1206042799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several lines like that
< 1206042804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, testing flying IP
< 1206042809 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ]
< 1206042821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1206042824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's not necessary to fill the whole line
< 1206042827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might as well :-P
< 1206042836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know what kind of bugs you'll run into
< 1206042853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah indeed
< 1206042853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like in the first x tests
< 1206042864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's similar in ORTH
< 1206042873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^^^^<^^^^^^^#^^ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>"sllec fo rebmun gnorw eht drawkcab spmuj j-40 :DAB"1 ^      ee
< 1206042882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for j too it seems
< 1206042890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, j just happens to be there
< 1206042917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll note the arrows go to an x error message
< 1206042939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around that place why are there a column of chars like "ll"
< 1206042943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the right side
< 1206042952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ee
< 1206042953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ll
< 1206042954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on
< 1206042955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a string running in the vertical direction
< 1206042993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<^^
< 1206042995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the bottom
< 1206043012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1206043014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out string direction

< 1206043019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mean string starts at top?
< 1206043020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from top to bottom
< 1206043028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1206043050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's the "skip/hit easternmost"
< 1206043054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but why vertical
< 1206043055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1206043058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you insane?
< 1206043061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not, saves a bunch of space
< 1206043065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were
< 1206043081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the original reason was that at first I didn't differ between file/line
< 1206043091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it later and had already written 50+ lines down
< 1206043092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but true, now I only need to maximize my console for the gdb output from call FungeSpaceDump()
< 1206043092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206043105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I needed to fit the line testing in the same place
< 1206043111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206043116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what was that link to your Thue ski again?
< 1206043118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I figured that since there will be two fairly long strings I might as well put them vertically
< 1206043125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and not PIC code?
< 1206043134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent the intervening time learning how to write an HTTP GET over telnet
< 1206043138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've told you before, AnMaster :-P
< 1206043149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC code would have been a good idea but I was young and foolish
< 1206043149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the code there looks not too position dependant for jumps?
< 1206043173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but telnet isn't very good in terms of backscroll
< 1206043174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but there's a bunch of p and g going on there
< 1206043186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err what is   >"i sutats nruter eht fI .q htiw tiuq ot gniyrT"a doing near the top?
< 1206043192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was at the end
< 1206043198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is at the end.
< 1206043207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only find that on line 768, at least :-P
< 1206043209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh wait
< 1206043212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1206043222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that was the end of the previous funge space dump
< 1206043225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1206043225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused up and down? Befunge'll do that to ya. ;-)
< 1206043240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >"i sutats nruter eht fI .q htiw tiuq ot gniyrT"a".enod yllacitcarp si etius tset 89-egnufeB ygolocyM ehT"a>:#,_f#^q
< 1206043240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) finish
< 1206043240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) call FungeSpaceDump()
< 1206043246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1206043249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like that ;P
< 1206043260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to see that in the messy dump
< 1206043349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok pushed i instruction, o not yet done
< 1206043577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw you don't list these changes to mycology anywhere? I can't find a change log in mycology either
< 1206043629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Slashdot puts random Futurama quotes in an HTTP header
< 1206043637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh?
< 1206043641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah, can't be bothered to list these minor changes.
< 1206043671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looked with http live heardes
< 1206043673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see it
< 1206043687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in an X-Leela header for me
< 1206043700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Bender: Boy, were we suckers!
< 1206043703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only shows up if it detects telnet as your user agent
< 1206043703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw that
< 1206043765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X-Bender: Lick my frozen, metal ass!"
< 1206043774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Slashdot's HTTP output has a lot of vertical whitespace
< 1206043776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where did you say those were from?
< 1206043802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futurama, based on the character names and the sort of quotes that are there
< 1206043810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is Futurama?
< 1206043817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1206043845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you really don't know, you can look it up on Wikipedia
< 1206043924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks it up

< 1206043942 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster lives in Nofuturamastan
< 1206043956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh some tv series
< 1206043959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explains it
< 1206043963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly ever watch TV
< 1206043970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes news and thats it
< 1206043984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or browse the Intertubes. :-P
< 1206044062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't guess, I'm currently websurfing using telnet and less
< 1206044080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are mad
< 1206044197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, I have to do it via a temporary file, because otherwise less sets my keyboard to raw mode so I can't backspace over typos :(
< 1206044225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -_-
< 1206044230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not do it in intercal?
< 1206044266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an INTERCAL program's already been written, which basically just grabs a URL and dumps the web page there to stdout
< 1206044272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a full browser in intercal with AJAX and all
< 1206044274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wget, but with less style
< 1206044297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interesting idea, but I'd hate to write an ECMAscript interp in INTERCAL
< 1206044310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even an HTML renderer, for that matter
< 1206044326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and?
< 1206044346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try to make it a google summer of code project *runs*
< 1206044367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, I don't like to embark on projects that are far too difficult, or just inappropriate
< 1206044381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An INTERCAL IRC client is maybe possible, an INTERCAL web browser is just stupid
< 1206044412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should o truncate and write or append?
< 1206044431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former
< 1206044490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not stupid, the word you're looking for is fucking awesome shit
< 1206044513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web browsers are ludicrously difficult to write anyway
< 1206044514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said ffi for intercal?
< 1206044514 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All books are 3 characters. Check syntax and try again
< 1206044526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes
< 1206044535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't written it yet, but I have plans
< 1206044540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have been thinking about doing one for befunge
< 1206044543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a fingerprint
< 1206044554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allow you to embed NEXT, COME FROM, RESUME, etc. in C programs
< 1206044560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and link them to INTERCAL programs
< 1206044566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I would like to know more about how it would work, would it use libffi?
< 1206044570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would likely generalise to other languages as well
< 1206044583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric - Extending Brainfuck to the reals with tetration. | Logs: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ | The Esoteric File Archive: http://esolangs.org/files/
< 1206044585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, not ffi at runtime then=
< 1206044586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1206044587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to just link the programs together at compile time
< 1206044598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what did you change?
< 1206044603 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION renames the biblebot script

< 1206044605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aww not helpful for me then
< 1206044614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they swapped the words 'tetration' and 'reals'
< 1206044620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206044634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is tetration?
< 1206044652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what comes next in the sequence addition, multiplication, exponentiation
< 1206044657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1206044671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no?
< 1206044679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.
< 1206044690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, not no.
< 1206044692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i swapped "brainfuck" and "tetration", and changed "in" to "with"
< 1206044700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right.
< 1206044710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what is "tetration"...
< 1206044711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sequence thing was right ofc
< 1206044717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what ais523 said
< 1206044718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^3?
< 1206044721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1206044723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was comparing the topic to the last-but-two, from memory
< 1206044728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, then what..
< 1206044744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5^^3 = 5^5^5
< 1206044746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n^n^n^n^n...
< 1206044749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206045091 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0F9CBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206045095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would be easier to write an IRC client as two programs
< 1206045102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one which handled input from the user
< 1206045112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't get what the flag for o should do
< 1206045114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other which handled messages from the IRC server
< 1206045139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what part don't you get
< 1206045146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you wouldn't need a select-equivalent
< 1206045146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ie, what it does
< 1206045146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"any spaces before each EOL, and any EOLs before the EOF, are not written out. "
< 1206045155 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-57-202.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206045156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not to get
< 1206045159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right, found it now
< 1206045161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOL means end of line, EOF means end of file
< 1206045162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't see that part
< 1206045169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only part :-P
< 1206045176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, C standards are easier to read :P
< 1206045249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first vectors popped by both of these instructions are considered relative to the storage offset. (The size vector Vb, of course, is relative to the least point Va.)"
< 1206045261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology doesn't test it is relative storage offset
< 1206045264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, that's not tested.
< 1206045277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, suggestion: test it?
< 1206045360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because that's /easy/
< 1206045367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, let's just add a { here
< 1206045374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait there was something on the stack, need to add a 0 first
< 1206045381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, darn now the whole row is shifted 2 chahrs
< 1206045388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firk, no space anywhere in the next 5 rows
< 1206045396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta use x somewhere to jump to a temporary location
< 1206045396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1206045397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right right, add a mycology 2 test suite?
< 1206045397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks
< 1206045404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, rewrite mycology
< 1206045408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by all means
< 1206045412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good idea
< 1206045416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not in the mood for it :-P
< 1206045416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or test out of order?
< 1206045434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to keep it in somewhat smart an order - test an instruction and move on
< 1206045444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's already some deviation from that with some UNDEFs
< 1206045653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION muses over PIC with GOT (Global Offset Table, used in PIC code on linux at least)

< 1206045676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in gcc -fpic
< 1206045844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going home"
< 1206045855 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving."
< 1206046092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, odd is it really correct that flag meanings are inverted between i and o?
< 1206046130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way, yes
< 1206046141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1206046142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all depends on how you think of what the flag means... after all it's not the same flag
< 1206046168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do mycology test both kinds of output?
< 1206046182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology quite verbosely says that it doesn't
< 1206046188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok
< 1206046252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it could output it for later manual verification
< 1206046281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1206046282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...
< 1206046284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't. :-P
< 1206046587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed.
< 1206046587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write to it with o...
< 1206046587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed
< 1206046588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err
< 1206046612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it says o is implemented it should probably be BAD
< 1206046612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you said it shouldn't be BAD :-P
< 1206046612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but UNDEF when y says o is not implemented
< 1206046616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I said: depending on y value
< 1206046631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the developer knows whether o should work
< 1206046643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it could mean a read-only file system
< 1206046646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as somebody pointed out
< 1206046656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, tell me the truth and say as it is: you can't fit it in
< 1206046656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206046674 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, actually
< 1206046678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just can't be bothered to write it
< 1206046683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's plenty of room there :-P
< 1206046744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, when did you write mycology and ccbi? I mean the main stuff
< 1206046752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 'main' stuff?
< 1206046760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "not just maintainance"
< 1206046783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently all you do to mycology is bug fixes after all
< 1206046797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beginning of 2006 for non-fingerprint stuff, I think
< 1206046806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206046834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm
< 1206046884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inferring this from the fact that the first entry in CCBI's changelog says "everything should work" and is dated june 2006 :-P
< 1206046929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think most of mycology happened after that
< 1206046962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I did have the core already then
< 1206046980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprints were definitely late 2006 - mid 2007 though
< 1206047031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat mycotmp0.tmp
< 1206047031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#@>. 1#@vv"@.4"@#<.>$#v5#.< #>3.#@$ .^@^ 0@# 4.27.
< 1206047033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs

< 1206047051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look quite right :-P
< 1206047058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing newlines yeah
< 1206047074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they went to stderr, instead, thanks code copying from dump function
< 1206047079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1206047135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway text file mode looks painful
< 1206047141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, having to lookahead
< 1206047145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, unless you implement it the lazy way
< 1206047149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find trailing whitespace
< 1206047156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what? ungetc?
< 1206047165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, for i or o
< 1206047181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for o
< 1206047201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1206047211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do mycology test binary input?
< 1206047228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i
< 1206047237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the lazy way is that if you're given a 1000x1 befunge area which contains line breaks, say, only test for trailing white space at the end
< 1206047244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of testing in the middle as well
< 1206047246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait ungetc is wrong
< 1206047251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need unputc
< 1206047274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even then, how do I find where it ends
< 1206047279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mycology does say what it tests in most cases :-P
< 1206047281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, where is there only whitespace left
< 1206047305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how do you know when your IP needs to wrap
< 1206047313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, check bounding box
< 1206047314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206047317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly :-P
< 1206047322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no checking is done for space
< 1206047340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but in text mode it says o should not print trailing whitespaces
< 1206047351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...
< 1206047357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the problem
< 1206047404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	for (FUNGEVECTORTYPE y = offset->y; y < maxy; y++) {
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		for (FUNGEVECTORTYPE x = offset->x; x < maxx; x++) {
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			value = fungeSpaceGet(& (fungePosition) { .x = x, .y = y });
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			fputc(value, file);
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		}
< 1206047411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		fputc('\n', file);
< 1206047413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	}
< 1206047415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how I do it
< 1206047429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course you can't do that :-)
< 1206047432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I know when I reached "trailing whitespaces"
< 1206047434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..
< 1206047442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, exactly
< 1206047445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to take a copy and go through it
< 1206047451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never even considered outputting directly :-D
< 1206047457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err what?
< 1206047468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not?
< 1206047470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mallocate a buffer
< 1206047477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if text mode yes
< 1206047479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise no
< 1206047494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, never occurred to me
< 1206047506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it works fine for binary mode this
< 1206047510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not for string mode
< 1206047540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err text mode
< 1206047567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts in TODO for now

< 1206047581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I will correct it either "later" or "when mycology tests it"
< 1206047614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my binary output would be different
< 1206047654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not according to diff
< 1206047656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked
< 1206047661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given (10000,10000) to (10010,10010) yours would output 10x10 spaces?
< 1206047698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, I compared mycotmp0.tmp from ccbi and cfunge
< 1206047698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine would output only 10 line breaks
< 1206047702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not sure what you mean
< 1206047715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err why would it?
< 1206047716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as in, what happens when outside the space boundaries
< 1206047726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well that is an UNDEF I bet
< 1206047727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine doesn't output anything in that case
< 1206047731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is
< 1206047745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd say "you're wrong" and not "we differ" ;-)
< 1206047766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was a DEF I would hit the standard author over the head for defining such a useless thing when he left way more important stuff out
< 1206047833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you keep forgetting that funge is an esolang :-)
< 1206047853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but there must be limits
< 1206047896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		// Sanity test!
< 1206047896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		if (*filename == '\0' || size.x < 1 || size.y < 1) {
< 1206047896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			ipReverse(ip);
< 1206047896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :			return;
< 1206047896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :		}
< 1206047900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a good idea?
< 1206047908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it break some standard?
< 1206047920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF
< 1206047925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.... right
< 1206047928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the latter two, that is
< 1206047937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first?
< 1206047944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*filename == '\0' is defined since that can't be opened, of course
< 1206048037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I notice you don't keep vectors as structs in ccbi
< 1206048043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the reason for that?
< 1206048056 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should I?
< 1206048082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I wonder about the design decision behind it
< 1206048093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a struct fungevector after all
< 1206048106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it seemed logical
< 1206048107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is it necessary?
< 1206048138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, but IMO cleaner code
< 1206048150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I asked about your design decision
< 1206048174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't feel it was necessary
< 1206048182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cleaner code or otherwise
< 1206048488 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep"
< 1206048786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, BAD: ran out of temporary file names, can't test o
< 1206048790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really a BAD?
< 1206048797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a question
< 1206048817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's BAD, because it means mycology could test something but can't because of the environment
< 1206048825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hence you don't know whether it's GOOD/BAD/UNDEF/what
< 1206048826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1206048834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERR maybe?
< 1206048855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several of the IO ones should be ERR on fail instead of GOOD/BAD/UNDEF
< 1206048859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO
< 1206048866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would ERR mean
< 1206048868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a suggestion
< 1206048888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error due to environment that may indicate for example a read only FS
< 1206048889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such
< 1206048925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, "can't test"
< 1206048929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1206048939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that could work
< 1206048940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where that is not due to an optional feature
< 1206048969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like y saying t/o/i/=/whatever is missing then thats an undef, or it seems in the case of t, nothing at all
< 1206049022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs valgrind and mudflap tests

< 1206049033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mudflap is horribly slow
< 1206049055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 30 seconds waiting after
< 1206049057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to quit with q. If the return status is 15, consider it GOOD...
< 1206049132 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes ee SMITH

< 1206049140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ee SMITH"?
< 1206049140 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems neat.
< 1206049145 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, AnMaster.
< 1206049145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ee?
< 1206049146 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See.
< 1206049147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206049147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1206049149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1206049189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         __mf_violation: [0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
< 1206049190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1206049791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, pushed added o instruction.
< 1206049793 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at SMITH examples

< 1206049799 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S MACHINE CODE
< 1206049872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, it is?
< 1206049894 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it looks like Assembly.
< 1206049900 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full of move to register and stuff.
< 1206049950 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can mean only one thing.
< 1206049958 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must make a bracketless brainfuck!
< 1206049994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, I think that is kind of what SMITH is
< 1206050023 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But I do not like how it looks.
< 1206050041 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this terrible phobia of assembly
< 1206050073 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the text editor machine!
< 1206050139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a processor with atomic "compare and exchange" and one without any atomic operations or things that would work for locks in the same computational class? in a multi CPU system of the latter there is obviously things you can't do that you can in the first
< 1206050195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, ^
< 1206050207 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut
< 1206050212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see question
< 1206050222 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I barely understand it
< 1206050225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyone else for that matter
< 1206050228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, ok
< 1206050229 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answering it would be pushing it!
< 1206050244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know about compare and exchange? or locks?
< 1206050250 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1206050259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you don't know about multi threading?
< 1206050270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the second CPU couldn't do it safely
< 1206050270 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither!
< 1206050274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the first could
< 1206050281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are they in same computational class?
< 1206050292 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me get a coin.
< 1206050297 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should tail be?
< 1206050299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok forget it
< 1206050304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you then?
< 1206050320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: would you be more comfortable with a mathematical model of an assembly?
< 1206050335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ah you here? can you understand my question?
< 1206050352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what that would be, but there must be something both theoretical and assebly-like for you to get going
< 1206050362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know how much you love that obscure math
< 1206050378 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206050383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i may be able to understand it, but i will have to read a few lines up to see it
< 1206050385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute
< 1206050385 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The truth is, I mostly just like working on a tape.
< 1206050390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is a processor with atomic "compare and exchange" and one without any atomic operations or things that would work for locks in the same computational class? in a multi CPU system of the latter there is obviously things you can't do that you can in the first
< 1206050393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is again
< 1206050409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, I prefer a 2D array :)
< 1206050430 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to do that
< 1206050436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, i don't get that
< 1206050446 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But infinite in all direction grid is hard to do without problems
< 1206050449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm fairly sure i could answer you right away if i understood it
< 1206050464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ok you know about compare and exchange or locks, like mutexes?
< 1206050475 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Love Machine 9000 last version has something like that
< 1206050483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, needed for two threads to be able to access same data
< 1206050492 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello2.png
< 1206050494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and on a multi cpu system very important
< 1206050543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so if a system where say set and get memory takes a lot of more cpu cycles than other operations, and with no atomic get and set memory, you could not safely to threading over multi cpu
< 1206050547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, with me so far?
< 1206050586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ?
< 1206050597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sorry
< 1206050603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read
< 1206050608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1206050638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't know exactly what mutexes are
< 1206050652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well then clearly such a system, without any way to do atomic memory changes and no way to do mutexes or such can not do some things that a system with those feature can
< 1206050666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: how is it hard to make an infinite-in-every-direction array?
< 1206050666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, mutex = a lock on memory so a single thread at a time can access it
< 1206050686 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Mostly, it's bothersome to print a section of it
< 1206050692 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for me at least
< 1206050706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay then i guessed right
< 1206050707 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello.png
< 1206050710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm with you i think'
< 1206050716 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first line is for some reason printed too much
< 1206050730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, therefore a system without atomic memory operation can not do the same stuff as one with them
< 1206050746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are those two systems in the same computational class?
< 1206050751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the definition of "being able to do something"
< 1206050755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1206050764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both can do anything computable within their memory limit
< 1206050778 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: what's in the bottom right corner of that pic?
< 1206050783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we aren't talking "computational class" type abilities here
< 1206050797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, two threads on a dual cpu system being able to transfer data between them using a queue
< 1206050798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just features allowed for the programmer, and speed
< 1206050811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so one thread on each cpu
< 1206050819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like co-routines
< 1206050825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1206050838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-routines?
< 1206050841 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1206050846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what you men
< 1206050847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean
< 1206050849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, now you can't solve the problem "two threads on a dual cpu system being able to transfer data between them using a queue" problem one one of those systems
< 1206050860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, agree on that?
< 1206050864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1206050879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with computational class of course
< 1206050890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ok what class or whatever has it got to do with?
< 1206050899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :features allowed for the programmer, and speed.
< 1206050907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hrrm
< 1206050909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a theoretical perspective
< 1206050928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna be more physical, it's basically just the ability to do... well, do exactly what you said.
< 1206050946 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gain nothing from multithreading when it comes to computation.
< 1206050948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yet something can be turing-complete without being brainfuck-complete, so is that another case of "features allowed for the programmer"?
< 1206050951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie I/O
< 1206050960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the fact the physical world lets you do things faster
< 1206050973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's another way to put it
< 1206050976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processes are IO
< 1206050986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so being IO complete? :D
< 1206050992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they are not exactly that...
< 1206050995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1206050997 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm.
< 1206051012 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid just a "add the current cell at the end of the code" won't cut it
< 1206051028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... just as having a printer doesn't make you more powerful computationally, neither does threading, nor mutexes
< 1206051063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can simulate the lock by having some sort of atomic boolean flags, i'm sure.
< 1206051080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where atomic means fast enough to read not to need a lock themself
< 1206051098 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would be a good idea for a extend-the-code-instruction?
< 1206051100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, could you define the concept better?
< 1206051105 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copypasting n instructions at the end?
< 1206051147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also you can simulate the lock by having some sort of atomic boolean flags, i'm sure. <-- well memory would be so slow that wouldn't work
< 1206051149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in a universal system you can simulate anything *internally*, so you can simulate the whole physical computer having atomic mutexes and whatnot
< 1206051160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hah ok
< 1206051162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing you cannot have is the actual physical processes.
< 1206051167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1206051177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual whatever queue sharing you were talking about
< 1206051184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm
< 1206051206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you originally saying something about not being able to share a queue between processes?
< 1206051456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, indeed I were
< 1206051478 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, can't you just have a lock to indicate which one can access the queue at given time?
< 1206051480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a
< 1206051509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, or in fact "not able to atomically access any memory with respect another cpu of the same kind in the same system"
< 1206051540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a lock could not be acquired(sp?) atomically either
< 1206051551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean the memories are distinct?
< 1206051562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no of course they share same ram
< 1206051571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no way to prevent them from clobbering each other
< 1206051584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there cannot be safe accesses to the ram?
< 1206051601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not if they try to access the same part of the ram no
< 1206051621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write the programs that run on each cpu to access different parts, I guess it would work
< 1206051645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need to able to read / write *something* safely, or just be synchronized
< 1206051646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, making sure one cpu keep in the top 4 MB and the other in the lower 4 MB or whater
< 1206051655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
< 1206051663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you couldn't communicate between the cpus
< 1206051669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he left
< 1206051789 0 :okofolor!n=oklofok@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206051845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, wb
< 1206051848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, you need to able to read / write *something* safely, or just be synchronized
< 1206051848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : say, making sure one cpu keep in the top 4 MB and the other in the lower 4 MB or whater
< 1206051848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
< 1206051848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you couldn't communicate between the cpus
< 1206051848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh he left
< 1206051910 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have *one* boolean flag, or the processors are synchronized, you can communicate anyway you want
< 1206051926 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one safe boolean flag, or perfect synchronization
< 1206052009 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, if you can't have a bit of information both can access safely, there is no way to have communication
< 1206052013 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't that a given...
< 1206052040 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming you know what i mean by the sync thing, because you aren't asking.
< 1206052064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you mean instructions will take same amount of time
< 1206052070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can know where each other is
< 1206052078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like is done in concurrent befunge
< 1206052086 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1206052100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, instructions may or may not take longer
< 1206052106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to cache issues and so on
< 1206052113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache hits and cache misses
< 1206052124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and random access time random access ram ;)
< 1206052125 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you have to know is how long they *took*
< 1206052131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, ^
< 1206052131 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not how much they will take
< 1206052134 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah shit.
< 1206052141 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they need to be *within some limit*
< 1206052152 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to use the BF constants from esolang, then I forgot I didn't have brackets anymore
< 1206052166 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the access time can be *anything*, then you cannot have safe sharing.
< 1206052179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, it can be anything
< 1206052187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, within say 2^32 years
< 1206052191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even longer
< 1206052202 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no matter how long you give for the other to read a certain place in the memory, they may collide, because the operation can have waited exactly enough to crash with the other one
< 1206052214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, indeed
< 1206052229 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if we are not leaving any room for error, it is safe to say it's impossible to have safe sharing.
< 1206052230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, it is however safe to write another byte of data on this mad system
< 1206052247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say one byte from each other
< 1206052261 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can exchange certain bytes?
< 1206052267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, nop they can't
< 1206052273 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what do you mean
< 1206052278 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it is however safe to write another byte of data on this mad system"
< 1206052281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant, one cpu can write at  0x122 and the other at 0x123
< 1206052288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without problems
< 1206052296 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm referring to any given cell of course
< 1206052311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to keep "within another memory page"
< 1206052317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that
< 1206052336 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can just consider one single memory cell
< 1206052344 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is simple to see you cannot share even that
< 1206052350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed
< 1206052375 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no use taking the whole memory into account, because none of its cells can be shared due to that.
< 1206052386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okofolor, oh and reading while the other cpu is writing the same cell will result in a power spike that will kill the cpu
< 1206052393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of them
< 1206052422 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we can just consider all failures failures
< 1206052426 0 :okofolor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol
< 1206052434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, just trying to make it more interesting
< 1206052445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this system is not IO complete?
< 1206052449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is only interesting when we start calculating probabilities.
< 1206052462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "expected failure"
< 1206052503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it also has a 79.67% chance to explode the ram with the force of 2 tonnes TNT at two CPUs trying to *write* to the same cell at the same time
< 1206052504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;)
< 1206052511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thereby killing the operator
< 1206052519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to do anything that probably results in a power spike, whereas you can safely do stuff that, when failing, will just put a boolean flag up indicating a failure
< 1206052539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now how probable is it for a read-read to fail?
< 1206052552 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I now have Bracketfuck. I hope the x instruction is enough for TCness
< 1206052563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: l
< 1206052572 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut?
< 1206052575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link
< 1206052587 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not giving you a link to my computer :o
< 1206052610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :252-1-82-215 <<< this your ip?
< 1206052611 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste-it.net/7474
< 1206052614 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There.
< 1206052682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : okay, now how probable is it for a read-read to fail?
< 1206052683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1206052690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very likely if they hit at the same time
< 1206052700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :result would be that too little current was generated
< 1206052706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would register value as a 0
< 1206052713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both cpus would that is
< 1206052738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again random access time random access memory (RATRAM) would make it hard to time that
< 1206052744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe* if they had well synchronized clocks it might still be able to do something safely.
< 1206052753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't say use that to make a cell the same value
< 1206052758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: b in move-head is just for confusing?
< 1206052762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh random access time
< 1206052768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RATRAM  hehehe
< 1206052774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves that name

< 1206052776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION declares this completely impossible

< 1206052785 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I like my programs to be compacts like cement blocks
< 1206052792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, aye, :)
< 1206052800 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Movehead is just a way of making the tape infinite
< 1206052804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but we are considering probabilities here
< 1206052812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they don't look that promising...
< 1206052817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, indeed not
< 1206052818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1206052832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems this machine is designed to kill people who like threading.
< 1206052838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot even use probabilities to repeat until you are sure
< 1206052839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, aye that is the case
< 1206052876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that make it not interesting to consider the probabilities?
< 1206052908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so this system is not safe for general use I understannd?
< 1206052910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understand*
< 1206052934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: x just adds a command in the end of the prog?
< 1206052939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not tc
< 1206052947 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, any char.
< 1206052959 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does SMITH do it?
< 1206053014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: you can add at most one character each time you do an operation, and each operation uses a character
< 1206053030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means the only infinite program is one that only executes x.
< 1206053041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something else in the beginning, ofc
< 1206053045 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1206053061 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would 2 chars be enough?
< 1206053063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YABC does something like that
< 1206053068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean
< 1206053090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar, although you have goto, you have to build your jumps with +'s and -'s
< 1206053116 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a wang machine :o
< 1206053117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 chars that do what?
< 1206053118 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Wang.
< 1206053120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, how comes funge seems sane compared to such systems?
< 1206053140 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copypasting two chars at the end of the code
< 1206053150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two same characters?
< 1206053160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, harder to declare non-tc at least.
< 1206053161 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, two adjacent cells
< 1206053176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1206053194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1206053195 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be easier if I just used a language that handled strings
< 1206053195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt that you can set up which cells to copy with just one command
< 1206053199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two
< 1206053206 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could restart Lore
< 1206053227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lore?
< 1206053241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the beginning of the program, you can create anything in the memory, meaning you can probably at least make *some* non-trivial loops
< 1206053241 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some stupid idea I have.
< 1206053261 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About a language in which you can declare any sort of data structure or something
< 1206053266 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And doing stuff in 'em
< 1206053306 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The structure 0 was the program itself
< 1206053307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like graphica?!?!?!?
< 1206053309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1206053318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can *do stuff with them*, nevermind then.
< 1206053330 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1206053659 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels proud; has just written a JavaScript-only site: http://yr.judofyr.net

< 1206053671 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION don't know JavaScript

< 1206053685 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jQuery helps a LOT!
< 1206053986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, I see "JavaScript required", and then a menu on the side
< 1206053988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap site
< 1206053995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please make it work without javascript
< 1206054004 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a mashup with Google Maps
< 1206054011 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it DOES need JavaScript
< 1206054020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, make it work without javascript or it is crap, sorry
< 1206054039 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a mashup! If want to use, enable JavaScript!
< 1206054049 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't make it work without JavaScript
< 1206054054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, even when I enabled javascript it showed same message
< 1206054057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even more crap
< 1206054061 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which browser?
< 1206054064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, firefox
< 1206054069 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not completely done, yet..
< 1206054073 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird...
< 1206054100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, works in konqueror though
< 1206054145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, it just asks "where or what is this"
< 1206054157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when I enter the name of the city it just locks up
< 1206054164 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..
< 1206054172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name == Örebro
< 1206054173 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate client-coding :(
< 1206054175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish city
< 1206054180 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should handle UTF-8...
< 1206054192 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you write there doesn't matter :P
< 1206054224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, oh and well METAR tell me lot more
< 1206054230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :airport near Örebro
< 1206054232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESOE 202150Z AUTO 13010KT 9999 SCT052 M02/M06 Q0991
< 1206054235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more info
< 1206054261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES JUDOFYR YOU SUCK STOP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND LET THE PROS DO IT LOL
< 1206054263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wind, dewpoint, visibility, sky conditions, pressure
< 1206054268 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1206054268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1206054271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I didn't mean that
< 1206054274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206054296 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have access to some more variables, but I don't know if I got it for the whole world :P
< 1206054310 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works very well with Norway
< 1206054315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, oh?
< 1206054343 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the mashup, but the raw-data I receive
< 1206054348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1206054355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, what do you get for Örebro then?
< 1206054390 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/locationforecast/1.4/?lat=LAT;lon=LON
< 1206054407 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace LAT and LON with the latitude and longitude
< 1206054425 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(should be in the URL: #Örebro,LAT,LON)
< 1206054442 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the "documentation": http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/locationforecast/1.4/documentation
< 1206054481 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206054567 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: got it?
< 1206054595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, can't be arsed to mess with that
< 1206054732 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Make Örebro to the top of the list, type "javascript:void(window.location="http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/locationforecast/1.4/?lat="+data[0][1]+";lon="+data[0][2])" in the adressbar and press enter
< 1206054747 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'll redirect to a raw XML :)
< 1206054757 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(remove the other places)
< 1206054804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, "javascript: protocol not supported"
< 1206054814 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh*
< 1206054816 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clients :P
< 1206054827 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs*
< 1206054841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, in firefox it does nothing at all instead
< 1206054842 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't they all work identically :P
< 1206054921 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: here is the XML for Örebro: http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/locationforecast/1.4/?lat=59.273755;lon=15.2075395
< 1206054922 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206054953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a lot
< 1206054991 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I found a place where it wasn't so much, but I don't know
< 1206054999 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might have the same details for all places...
< 1206055043 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should add wind (direction & speed), fog, clouds and pressure too :P
< 1206055089 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got the same details for the south-pole too: http://api.yr.no/weatherapi/locationforecast/1.4/?lat=-90;lon=-90
< 1206055420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, oh and other variables
< 1206055428 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like?
< 1206055438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much expected rain
< 1206055438 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S
< 1206055447 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's a little tricky
< 1206055463 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm showing the data AT a time
< 1206055467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, visibility
< 1206055489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, ok show current rain value
< 1206055512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, basically show everything METAR would
< 1206055527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the ICAO code for Oslo airport?
< 1206055543 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSL
< 1206055554 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure)
< 1206055561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, http://rafb.net/p/WhxZZk11.html
< 1206055564 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's that three-letter digit
< 1206055570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, sorry ICAO are 4 letter
< 1206055574 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1206055576 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm..
< 1206055597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, first char would be E for Northen europe, then some char for norway
< 1206055605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then two chars for actual airport
< 1206055606 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENGM
< 1206055617 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Airport%2C_Gardermoen
< 1206055619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT: 2008/03/20 22:13
< 1206055619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENGM 202213Z 08006KT 050V120 7000 -SN FEW010 SCT017 BKN040 M03/M04 Q0986 TEMPO 2000 SN BR VV008
< 1206055619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNUSED: TEMPO 2000 SN BR VV008
< 1206055621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of data
< 1206055622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1206055625 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1206055652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, here is same data in a non-flying geek format: http://rafb.net/p/tafC0e26.html
< 1206055663 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx :)
< 1206055670 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a flying geek?
< 1206055673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, I'm a flightsim fan myself yeah
< 1206055684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I admit I can't fully read the METAR line
< 1206055688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parts I can
< 1206055699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-SN = light snow for example
< 1206055711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEW010 = few clouds at 1000 ft
< 1206055736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M03/M04 = temperature -03 C, and dewpoint -04 C
< 1206055741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M means minus
< 1206055752 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my idea with the site wasn't to make a kick-ass weather site, but make it able to get the weather everywhere at the Earth, without being limited to larger cities
< 1206055761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08006KT is wind speed I think and 050V120 is wind direction
< 1206055765 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, more data = better :)
< 1206055766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V means variable direction
< 1206055772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7000 = visibility
< 1206055795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "TEMPO" is some kind of "temporary changes excepted in soon future"
< 1206055797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though
< 1206055809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q0986 is pressure
< 1206055835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rel. Humidity is calculated from pressure, dew point and temperature iirc
< 1206055869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, did I miss any part?
< 1206055875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not fast at reading METAR
< 1206055877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can parse it
< 1206055881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given enough time
< 1206055903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything after TEMP0 I don't understand
< 1206055933 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much
< 1206055957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, oh wait, VV008 bit is, I think, vertical visibility
< 1206055963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predicted in this case since it is after TEMPO
< 1206055968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *THINK*
< 1206056019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KSFO 202156Z 27022KT 10SM FEW015 13/03 A3030 RMK AO2 PK WND 27027/2145 SLP261 T01330033 <-- american format, everything after RMK is US specific, RMK means remark
< 1206056487 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll see what I can do :P Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to bed now :)
< 1206056500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh ok
< 1206056535 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gone*
< 1206056665 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+"
< 1206056791 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have a bettar idea for the x.
< 1206056802 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe adding the cells until it runs into a 0 cell*
< 1206056927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut?
< 1206057071 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the adding of cells.
< 1206057110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, 0-terminated cell adding?
< 1206057113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a stack?
< 1206057123 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, from a tape, since it's BF.
< 1206057139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1206057140 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I always say, around stacks, never relax.
< 1206057150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what?
< 1206057156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, befunge uses stacks, it works great
< 1206057165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier than brainfuck IMO
< 1206057187 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too used to stacks.
< 1206057254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to think in than tape at least
< 1206057262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: try programming something in a stacky language
< 1206057264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is way more stack based than tape based
< 1206057283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretty much get the same thinking going as you get with functional programming
< 1206057283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, befunge is recommended stacky language IMO
< 1206057297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, umm, no :P
< 1206057297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do functional though
< 1206057299 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload?
< 1206057303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why not?
< 1206057316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you cannot have nested structures or functions in the stack
< 1206057321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically a retarded tape
< 1206057330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in befunge?
< 1206057332 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1206057339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, in befunge
< 1206057348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err you can have anything you want on stack
< 1206057356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have references to cells
< 1206057368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushing vectors on stack
< 1206057370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have any serialized structure
< 1206057376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, aye
< 1206057382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very different when it actually comes to *programming*
< 1206057385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course befunge is bloated and so on, but that was a design goal
< 1206057402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computationally, serialization means nothing
< 1206057413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a language without functions/macros, it means fucking everything.
< 1206057431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is fun, but i don't think it's the best language for getting used to stacks
< 1206057434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, befunge got that "RBUS"4(
< 1206057435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206057454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what does that mean? :\
< 1206057461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, load SUBR fingerprint
< 1206057462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1206057478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBR does subroutines
< 1206057504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool
< 1206057519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, very simple minded ones
< 1206057529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but handles a call stack, kind of
< 1206057537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call stack is mixed with normal stack of course
< 1206057542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in true befunge style :D
< 1206057550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: i'd recommend false
< 1206057552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe :)
< 1206057555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like fun
< 1206057562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh and don't forget { and }
< 1206057569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stack-stack
< 1206057573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means you can isolate code
< 1206057578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses storage offset
< 1206057578 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't false obfuscated?
< 1206057589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__, most esoteric languages are
< 1206057609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah__: obfuscation is something you do to code, you don't usually call languages that
< 1206057610 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah.
< 1206057616 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most are just minimal
< 1206057621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but false does nested functions, and suchamathing.
< 1206057636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what you mean by obfuscation here
< 1206057654 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just read up False on the wiki
< 1206057658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it looks like line noise? ofc it does, if you want it to
< 1206057670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll have to read too, ages since i did
< 1206057676 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-89-58-116.dialup.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric
< 1206057680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : slereah__: obfuscation is something you do to code, you don't usually call languages that
< 1206057680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1206057683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge?
< 1206057691 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1206057710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that it looks like line noise? ofc it does, if you want it to <-- oh we are talking about perl?
< 1206057714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge might be an obfuscated language
< 1206057716 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1206057724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has an entry in esolang wiki, i think :)
< 1206057730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1206057731 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is
< 1206057738 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Perl
< 1206057746 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the follow up has not arrived!
< 1206057754 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good one for J or K?
< 1206057803 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making substitution rules in Schönfinkel's combinator is hard.
< 1206057827 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems it's hard to replace variables when there aren't variables anymore :o
< 1206057905 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, what is that perl program? It just prints 30.
< 1206057932 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a metaphore, apparently!
< 1206057955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it actually works!
< 1206057956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!?!?!
< 1206057976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it works or not, but it prints 30
< 1206057995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of stuff which prints 30 doesn't work.
< 1206058038 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Linux have a Perl interpreter?
< 1206058054 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just typed that in the console shell, and it's doing nothing :o
< 1206058058 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even an error message
< 1206058094 0 :slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah@Vixem:~$ perl -wlne'END{print$n}eof&&$n++;/