00:00:10 <oklopol> where [a..b] is a range from a to b, inclusive in both ends
00:00:39 <oklopol> and, well, am i making any sense?
00:01:05 <oklopol> i did just invent a random notation on the fly, if it's incomprehensible, do tell me
00:05:11 <evincarofautumn> So it would go (0, 0), (1, 1), (2, 2), ... (5, 6), (5, 7), (5, 8)
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00:06:02 <oklopol> oklopol: okay, so first diagonally, then horizontall-/vertically <<< can you reaffirm this was not correct after saying that?
00:08:31 <oklopol> i guess that's mostly a reality-check, i'm feeling a bit insecure atm.
00:08:49 <ehird> oklopol: so ... let's stop arguing
00:09:45 <oklopol> didn't we already stop? :D
00:10:22 <oklopol> can you tell me about the commands?
00:10:49 <evincarofautumn> Just a moment, please. I'm reviewing some college stuff. ^_^
00:11:28 <oklopol> i was thinking something massive that fucks up the whole graph, for the commands in the nodes, and preferably the same action for all nodes
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00:12:27 <oklopol> shortest path in my case is the shortest path within the graph, in case many are the same length, any of them may be chosen
00:13:35 <ehird> evincarofautumn: there's something wrong with your eyes and mouth
00:13:54 <oklopol> save that for when he joins next time!
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00:17:29 <ehird> oklopol: he's still here
00:17:48 <oklopol> i know i know, that joke was partly for him too
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00:27:06 <evincarofautumn> And yes, my eyes and mouth have become suspiciously Japanese all o' sudden.
00:28:28 <evincarofautumn> Each thread has only one associated attractor. I think I may not have made that clear.
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00:29:17 <evincarofautumn> increase attractor jump size, jump attractor up/down/left/right,
00:30:22 <evincarofautumn> fork thread (forking creates a new attractor for the new thread at the opposite position on the graph)
00:30:31 <oklopol> but, you need to be able to create new command nodes
00:31:00 <oklopol> at the end of program, there are commands at certain positions
00:31:04 <oklopol> you need to be able to add those
00:31:48 <oklopol> at the beginning of program, there are commands at certain positions
00:32:01 <oklopol> you need to be able to add more of those, during evaluation
00:32:15 <oklopol> i'm assuming infinite grid?
00:32:45 <evincarofautumn> No, toroidal, with the initial size determined by the maximum line width of the source / number of lines of source.
00:33:52 <evincarofautumn> Yeah. But unlimited in terms of what the programmer can request.
00:34:12 <oklopol> well, is it extendable @ runtime?
00:34:15 <evincarofautumn> I was thinking of having a stack for inter-thread communication.
00:34:41 <oklopol> umm no it doesn't, just makes it computationally interesting
00:35:26 <revcompgeek> queues would make more sense for communication
00:35:38 <revcompgeek> which means that a stack would be better for an esoteric language
00:35:49 <oklopol> if it's finite, it can be interesting, but usually finite stuff that is interesting is infinite stuff with an arbitrary limit
00:36:35 <oklopol> why not just have it infinite?
00:37:42 <oklopol> if you limit it to be finite, i'm afraid the language itself will become limited
00:38:00 <ehird> everything finite sucks.
00:38:06 <ehird> evincarofautumn: yes you can
00:38:11 <ehird> figure that one out
00:38:39 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: have n dimensions, where m of them wrap
00:39:07 <oklopol> then 1 infinite, one wrapping
00:39:29 <oklopol> also easier to visualize than whole wrapping, which doesn't have a 3d form.
00:40:01 <oklopol> ehird: that works for real coordinate movement quite well, but he's doing discrete
00:40:50 <oklopol> i found mostly real + graphs interesting with attractors, because in other cases "shortest path" needs to be a hack of some sort
00:41:01 <oklopol> but as i said, reals are a bit complicated
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00:41:43 <evincarofautumn> I like 2 dimensions, 2 wrapping. Then it's standard-issue fungery.
00:41:56 <oklopol> well you can have funge-style wrapping.
00:42:09 <oklopol> infinite + wrapping, that is.
00:42:43 <oklopol> because if it's finite, it's harder to tell you why you need to be able to extend command space
00:42:46 <revcompgeek> esoteric languages aren't meant to be useful
00:43:01 <oklopol> and by command space, i mean the set of program cells that contain commands
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00:43:30 <oklopol> revcompgeek: no, they're meant to be *interesting*, infiniteness has nothing to do with usefulness, it's about being interesting
00:43:32 <evincarofautumn> Yeah, but I want the finite restriction to be a mark of the program's elegance, of how tiny it can be made to work.
00:44:09 <oklopol> revcompgeek: i was trying to explain why you were wrong :)
00:44:15 <evincarofautumn> If you can get a hello world or a cat working in 2 lines of 5 chars instead of 25 lines of 80, then there's something to be said for the beauty of your code.
00:44:43 <evincarofautumn> Besides, we haven't even talked about how this is supposed to be a threaded language.
00:45:20 <revcompgeek> evincarofautumn said that he doesn't get how that is useful and i was saying that it wasn't supposed to be useful
00:45:20 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: don't be like that, if it can trivially be extended to infinity, please do it, if it can't, it's probably not interesting.
00:45:45 <oklopol> revcompgeek: yes, and i failed to understand what you meant at first, and apologized
00:46:38 <evincarofautumn> I suppose you could dynamically alter execution *speed* instead of direction, and repeat blocks of code by having unbounded memory to which you copy previously executed code.
00:46:39 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: i'm just saying... why not have it infinite, unless you have something like pointer size to stop ya
00:47:09 <oklopol> changing execution speed = ?
00:47:12 <evincarofautumn> Why not have it finite, when it begins to demand more elegant coding practices?
00:47:24 <oklopol> finite doesn't mean harder, usually.
00:47:27 <evincarofautumn> The rate at which the instruction pointer moves through space.
00:47:38 <oklopol> so, what does that mean exactly?
00:48:15 <evincarofautumn> Well, you could have a position vector coupled with velocity and acceleration, and model the thread's journey through space using gravity.
00:48:29 <evincarofautumn> You could have missiles fired from a home base (say (0, 0))
00:48:55 <oklopol> think about the turtle, how exactly is it's movement from (0,0) to (5,10) changed if speed changes?
00:49:23 <oklopol> does it move first to (0.5,0.5), then (1,1), then (1.5,1.5) etc?
00:50:15 <evincarofautumn> It could, if you're working with reals. It could just as easily go (0, 0), (2, 2), (4, 4), (5, 5), etc.
00:50:44 <evincarofautumn> I think this isn't really in the spirit of my original concept.
00:51:59 <oklopol> are you planning to have something like *numbers* to store stuff in?
00:52:10 <oklopol> perhaps a stack and operations for calculating stuff?
00:52:45 <oklopol> i was assuming the computation and data are within the simple attractor following, and command space altering
00:52:52 <evincarofautumn> The only numbers you get are your location vector and the data pointed to by your parent's location vector.
00:53:29 <oklopol> i mean, if you have stack+bignums, you don't need infinitely extendable codespace
00:54:03 <oklopol> if you have two stacks and finite nums, once again tc
00:55:59 <oklopol> yes, makes program flow harder
00:56:34 <revcompgeek> it seems like most esoteric languages are designed to be overly painful to use
00:56:44 <oklopol> but i think i'm going to go a bit more native with my graph version, stacks and numbers are just too easy ;)
00:57:49 <oklopol> well the ones with a computational agent, a turtle, are the ones people usually make, simple to invent, usually tc, not at all nice to program
00:58:03 <evincarofautumn> You know, this idea doesn't seem hard enough, come to think of.
00:58:05 <oklopol> because usually you want arbitrary nesting for your structures
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01:03:00 <ehird> revcompgeek: Hello! You are one of the few people who uses the forum.
01:03:02 <ehird> I use the forum too!
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01:04:03 <revcompgeek> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BRZRK
01:09:34 <revcompgeek> it isn't the best forum that could be used
01:09:38 <ehird> revcompgeek: Yes it is.
01:10:00 <ehird> I am ready to fully and strongly argue the point that the software is far superior to phpBB and clones, but Graue already did that in a previous thread.
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01:10:30 <ehird> Summary of why the software is better (linked from the previous thread about this on the forums): http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
01:15:29 <evincarofautumn> This seems more...high-level specialisation in lieu of outright obfuscation.
01:16:43 <revcompgeek> it was actually designed to be more powerful and less obfuscated
01:17:20 <revcompgeek> i want it to be object oriented at some point
01:17:42 <revcompgeek> yeah, that is what i want most of the code to look like!
01:18:13 <evincarofautumn> I think you should be able to figure out how a language works but have a hard time using it nonetheless.
01:18:21 <revcompgeek> it hurts my brain less to write something that is both powerful and obfuscated
01:19:00 <evincarofautumn> The closest I ever came was something called "symbol", which I never released.
01:19:14 <ehird> revcompgeek: I love malbolge.
01:19:20 <ehird> I mean sure, doing something like it is old hat now
01:19:32 <revcompgeek> ehird: have you written anything useful in it?
01:19:35 <ehird> But there was a trend LEANING towards that way at the time, and Malbolge just took it and slammed it to death.
01:19:40 <ehird> It is the ultimate.
01:19:50 <ehird> revcompgeek: No -- nothing. But it is lovely.
01:20:42 <revcompgeek> it would be reasonably simple to make a malbolge evolver
01:21:14 <revcompgeek> you can look at the source in dsource.org/projects/AID/
01:22:38 <ehird> <evincarofautumn> None has written anything useful in it by hand.
01:22:51 <revcompgeek> one plus to my language is that it would be easy to use in genetic programming
01:23:14 <ehird> evincarofautumn: It was ages ago!
01:23:17 <ehird> But he hasn't revealed his secrets.
01:23:22 <ehird> http://www.antwon.com/index.php?p=234
01:23:37 <ehird> '"Hello, world." — blatant self-promotion — a keen observation '
01:23:49 <ehird> hand-crafted (it seems, from the look of them) malbolge programs
01:24:06 <ehird> evincarofautumn: Also - http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Malbolge_programming
01:24:10 <ehird> And: http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml
01:24:41 <ehird> evincarofautumn: There's also a real-loop 99bob in Malbolge.
01:26:02 <ehird> 'PLEASE!! LET ME TERMINATE!!! :('
01:26:33 <ehird> esolang's Malbolge page has the FSA category
01:26:36 <ehird> but no justification
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01:27:23 <revcompgeek> i just added a more obfuscated cat to the BRZRK page
01:28:52 <revcompgeek> if i renamed the loops to shorter and more obfuscated names, would that be better?
01:29:11 <evincarofautumn> I was just about to say, I'd like a symbol for the commonly-used loops.
01:29:12 <ehird> that's selling out
01:29:47 <ehird> revcompgeek: the While looks kinda cute
01:29:56 <revcompgeek> for will stay there, but it doesn't have to be used
01:30:10 <evincarofautumn> It is kind of cute, sitting there all alone, surrounded by line noise...
01:30:49 <ehird> revcompgeek: nononono
01:33:19 <ehird> revcompgeek: no. everyone else just isn't here
01:34:46 <revcompgeek> which is better: S_0While!=_*2+67`BS_'$_ or S_0W!=_*2+67`BS_'$_
01:37:21 <revcompgeek> i would like the interpreter to be able to output the obfuscated version of the code
01:37:57 <revcompgeek> having multiple names for loops makes it even more fun to obfuscate!
01:39:00 <revcompgeek> output from the parser will be the easiest to do
01:39:17 <revcompgeek> if someone wants to write an obfuscator in the language then be my guest
01:40:38 <ehird> revcompgeek: Obviously, you should ignore lower-case letters.
01:40:41 <ehird> Then W and While both work.
01:40:45 <ehird> And you get comments for free!
01:41:24 <ehird> Also, Winter works too.
01:41:30 <ehird> As well as What is this nonsense
01:42:21 <ehird> So_0What is this nonsense!obviously x=five but _*2+67is not grand which is`BullShit_'$_
01:42:40 <evincarofautumn> And since the syntax is punctuation-based, you can inline it as much as you want, making it look like normal text.
01:42:44 <ehird> It's like oerjan's Unlambda in INTERCAL
01:42:52 <ehird> "PLEASE NOTE RISING INFLATION" and stuffs
01:48:06 <evincarofautumn> You get...sponges. Sponges are like variables, but they can absorb an unlimited number of values, string or integer, and you don't know which stored value you'll receive when you 'squeeze' it.
01:48:40 <evincarofautumn> Apart from that, math operations are fairly deterministic...provided you only use single-valued sponges.
01:50:59 <ihope> Just what do squeeze and squish do?
01:51:10 <ehird> revcompgeek: Are you goign to make it ignore lowercase?
01:51:58 <revcompgeek> if you only have uppercase, there can be no variables and only a few functions
01:52:39 <ehird> revcompgeek: your comment chars are {...}
01:52:42 <ehird> make {...} mean a name
01:52:45 <ehird> so {foo} is a function name
01:52:48 <ehird> i.e. it's anti-comment
01:53:19 <evincarofautumn> Then they stick out like they're not supposed to be there.
01:53:53 <ehird> revcompgeek: no it's nt
01:53:57 <ehird> you're being a bit too protective of it
01:54:00 <ehird> it's a good idea, and it works neatly
01:54:03 <ehird> and allows fun obfuscation
01:54:08 <evincarofautumn> ihope: squeeze outputs a value of a sponge, apparently, and squish undefines it.
01:54:35 <revcompgeek> but my language is very different from the one you are describint
01:54:45 <ehird> revcompgeek: It's called 'revisions'.
01:54:50 <ehird> Not very different anyway
01:54:53 <ehird> Just: {...} makes it a name
01:54:56 <ehird> and otherwise lowercase is ignored
01:55:40 <revcompgeek> {} can be used for functions or variables?
01:56:35 <ehird> revcompgeek: How do you distinguish now?
01:56:43 <ehird> It's just that inside {}, things like 'abc' aren't comments
01:56:59 <ehird> It's the anti-comment: It means 'this contains lowercase letters, BUT it's a name'
01:58:44 <evincarofautumn> What else do you use {} to do if they were comment chars before?
01:58:54 <revcompgeek> but, since it is fairly similar, the scanner and parser i have written would only take minor modifications to accept it
01:58:58 <evincarofautumn> Or are you looking to be able to include uppercase characters in comments.
02:01:03 <ehird> revcompgeek: why ask if you will just say 'no' to suggestions?
02:02:39 <revcompgeek> those aren't really the suggestions i was looking for
02:05:12 <revcompgeek> would make a fairly interesting polyglot between the two
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02:15:02 <revcompgeek> but my language is just so clean the way it is...
02:15:21 <evincarofautumn> There are LISP programmers out there who would kill you for saying that.
02:16:34 <revcompgeek> i will take suggestions for the new language
02:21:11 <evincarofautumn> You have to select a variable to perform an operation on it.
02:21:35 <evincarofautumn> Otherwise it's locked, and accessing it raises an exception.
02:22:30 <evincarofautumn> I'm thinking of taking the locking concept to the extreme.
02:22:50 <evincarofautumn> Basically there's one unlocked block of program code at startup
02:23:05 <evincarofautumn> and the interpreter loops through the entire source until all of the blocks are locked.
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02:30:55 <Slereah_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEDsycpvP30&feature=related
02:31:04 <Slereah_> Borat explains why evolution is wrong.
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02:49:52 <revcompgeek> anyone here that likes nondeterministic languages?
02:50:29 <Slereah_> I did some random number function on the Love Machine 9000, but I don't use it much
02:50:47 <revcompgeek> me neither, but i just thought of a good idea for one
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02:54:44 <revcompgeek> judofyr: you like nondeterministic languages?
02:55:52 <revcompgeek> why do people join if they don't answer/participate?
02:57:24 * oerjan is currently falling deeper and deeper into a black hole known as TvTropes
02:58:24 <oerjan> an extremely addictive wiki
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03:02:10 <Slereah_> So, what is your idea revcompgeek
03:03:13 <revcompgeek> each line is a value and a list of operations
03:03:58 <revcompgeek> the operation is chosen with that number for each line in the program
03:06:23 <revcompgeek> when the first line's value becomes 0, the program is halted
03:06:54 <revcompgeek> either the values of the other lines when the program exits
03:08:02 <revcompgeek> lines look like "line number: (value) operations"
03:10:36 <revcompgeek> like a way of ensuring that a certain operation runs
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16:01:09 <Slereah_> Oooooh dial up if you want to know me!
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16:14:31 <ehird> hello evincarofautumn
16:14:39 <ehird> i am hereby suggesting a new irc name for you
16:14:49 <ehird> your current one is jarring
16:14:59 <ehird> bonus points: it's not registered
16:16:57 <ehird> evincarofautumn: no?
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16:20:57 <ehird> ircnomic needs you!
16:21:32 <ehird> pikhq: Yuss it does.
16:21:37 * pikhq needs to recover from last night
16:21:41 <ehird> He's the only one who isn't incompetent with the admin interface!
16:21:47 <ais523> wow, no rules were added since I last looked at it?
16:21:50 <ehird> 'recover' from last night?
16:21:58 <ehird> pikhq, evidently, has inconsistent blocks
16:22:14 <ehird> nothing happened -all night-
16:22:31 * pikhq had prom last night.
16:22:41 <ehird> pikhq: I was talking to ais523 anyway
16:27:05 <ais523> ircnomic = IRC, without a microphone
16:30:46 <ehird> ais523: Well that ... doesn't make a lot of sense
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16:47:28 <ehird> evincarofautumn: /nick evincar
16:47:34 <ehird> /msg nickserv register <password>
16:47:37 <ehird> or i will tear my hair out :D
16:47:41 -!- evincarofautumn has changed nick to eoa.
16:48:45 <eoa> Now it's convenient to type for y'all.
16:49:41 <ehird> eoa: evincar is easier to type
16:49:53 <eoa> The product of last night's work: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Selector
16:51:23 <eoa> Are you kidding?
16:51:35 <ais523> eoa is easier to type than evincar
16:51:36 <eoa> Eoa bounces nicely between the hands.
16:51:46 <ais523> vinc is a tricky character sequence
16:51:56 -!- eoa has changed nick to evincar.
16:52:09 <ehird> evincar: you'll probably want to register that
16:52:17 <ehird> /msg NickServ register <pass>, if you didn't know
16:54:37 <ais523> Category:2008, obviously
16:54:49 <ais523> I'll need to read the description to figure out the other cats
16:55:11 <evincar> I'm thinking Languages, Low-level, Unimplemented, 2008?
16:56:04 <ais523> evincar: I think that lang's a push-down automaton
16:56:07 <ais523> so you can add that too
16:56:18 <ais523> I don't see how it can be TC, because you can't random-access an infinite amount of storage
16:56:32 <ais523> (you only have one stack, and can't delve into deeper down the stack)
16:56:36 <ais523> or are numbers unbounded?
16:56:56 <ais523> OK, in that case it's TC because you can simulate Minsky-machine-Brainfuck trivially in it
16:57:09 <evincar> Not quite a tarpit, though.
16:58:43 <RodgerTheGreat> I think this language could be quite entertaining if it read each command via text-to-speech as it executed.
17:02:40 <evincar> I think it would be more entertaining if I had included more of the looping and block control constructs.
17:02:42 <ais523> evincar: have you ever played WarioWare?
17:03:23 <ais523> evincar: I was just wondering what would have inspired you to create such a language, and WarioWare was my first guess
17:03:31 <ais523> I only have the DS version, but it's good
17:04:10 <evincar> I just started writing ideas down, and this is what I got.
17:04:14 <ehird> evincar: It's not Wierd, that's binary
17:04:32 <evincar> eso programmers and their in-jokes.
17:07:56 <Slereah_> What else is an awesome eso joke.
17:08:06 <ehird> Slereah_: ... And then I brainfucked her!!
17:10:26 <evincar> And then she said "KTHXBAI".
17:10:33 <evincar> And that was the end of it.
17:11:15 <ehird> And then i was befunged!!
17:11:28 <evincar> Come to think of it, it really bothers me that lolcode uses "VISIBLE".
17:11:31 <ehird> oh lordy we are great kommunist komedians
17:11:41 <evincar> Can't you come up with a more lolcatsy command name?
17:11:48 <ehird> evincar: 'INVISIBLE SANDWICH'
17:11:51 <ehird> 'VISIBLE SANDWICH'
17:11:53 <ehird> it's a common meme
17:12:02 <ehird> VISIBLE is already lolcatsy
17:12:20 <evincar> I know it's a common meme, but...
17:12:33 <evincar> It just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the code.
17:13:13 <evincar> Like "IM IN UR LOOP UPPIN UR VAR TIL BOTHSAEM VAR AN 10"
17:15:31 <Slereah_> What is visible for again, output?
17:16:40 <evincar> I like the proposed event-handling system.
17:17:40 <Slereah_> Will it POST SOME FUCKING CATS?
17:18:20 <Slereah_> For that is what is done on Caturday!
17:19:31 <ehird> Slereah_: PLEASE DO POST SOME FUCKING CATS
17:19:47 <ais523> ehird: that was random; anything in particular you like about it?
17:20:37 <ehird> ais523: 'PLEASE DO'
17:20:43 <ehird> PLEASE DO POST SOME FUCKING CATS
17:20:59 <Slereah_> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/96/Raepcat.jpg
17:21:30 <ehird> Slereah_: I didn't need to see that
17:22:01 <ais523> MAYBE PLEASE DO NOT %50 POST SOME FUCKING CATS ONCE
17:24:57 <evincar> Compile Error: Excessively polite.
17:25:26 <ais523> evincar: the program's less than three lines long, so that error doesn't apply
17:25:27 <ehird> evincar: ais523 must have lots of fun maintaining that module
17:26:33 <ehird> evincar: (ais523 maintains C-INTERCAL)
17:26:44 <evincar> I am in the presence of greatness.
17:26:57 <ehird> well, dbc is Daniel B Cristofani
17:26:58 * evincar runs and grabs some disinfectant
17:27:02 <ehird> i think that's all the esocelebs in here
17:27:07 <ehird> though really the community is so small we're all celebs
17:27:27 <evincar> To be a celebrity in a constantly-near-defunct community!
17:27:30 <Slereah_> Well, AIS is the motherfucking Wolfram winner, too D:
17:28:16 <ais523> Slereah_: I'm not sure about the motherfucking part, but otherwise that's right
17:28:27 <ehird> Slereah_: I was going to say that but then I remembered that ais523 doesn't like his name revealed
17:28:30 <Slereah_> I will have to ask miss Smith.
17:28:46 <ehird> but i think that's just on wikipedia
17:28:56 <ais523> ehird: it's reasonably fine here
17:28:57 <evincar> I think maybe intercal was a touch of inspiration for my Selector.
17:28:58 <ehird> where, apparently, he will be murdered in his sleep
17:29:02 <ais523> but not on Wikpedia or any Wikipedia-related channels
17:29:24 <ehird> actually, the idea of ais523 being murdered in his sleep because of wikipedia is vaguely amusing
17:29:37 <ehird> 'Aha! Now you will delete my pages... NO MORE!'
17:29:55 <ehird> 'This is what you get... for violating the... THREE REVERT RULE!!!!!'
17:29:56 -!- timotiis_ has changed nick to timotiis.
17:30:06 <ais523> Slereah_: not yet, but it has happened to many other admins
17:30:39 <ais523> so far nobody's got mad at me for making technical improvements to the deletion system and fixing typos in templates, but you never know...
17:30:45 <ais523> there are some pretty strange people on the Internet
17:30:56 <ais523> and a significant proportion of them are aware of Wikipedia
17:31:05 <ehird> ais523: maybe ec will be the real problem
17:31:11 <ehird> "I fucking despise that site .... AND YOU!!!"
17:31:18 <ehird> *stabstabstabstabstabstabstab*
17:32:10 <Slereah_> And is there no strange people on eso?
17:32:20 <ais523> Slereah_: yes, but there are all types of strangeness
17:32:27 -!- Judofyr has quit (Connection timed out).
17:32:36 <ais523> and the types which would go and track me down and deal me physical harm are hopefully rare here
17:32:50 <ehird> ais523: Actually I'm an insane psychopath.
17:32:53 <ehird> I am tracking you down now.
17:32:58 <ehird> Oh, hello! I'm behind you.
17:33:17 <ehird> ais523: Oh... really?
17:33:21 <ais523> at least, not immediately behind
17:33:23 -!- ehird has changed nick to als523.
17:33:25 <als523> ..... Uh, guys? I just kinda killed someone. Halp?
17:33:30 <als523> i'm typing from his keyboard
17:33:30 <ais523> you have approximately a 1-in-2 chance of being somewhere behind
17:33:31 <Slereah_> Don't answer that craigslist ad looking for a wolfram prize winner, it's a trap!
17:33:36 <als523> ais523: WHOA IT'S A GHOST
17:33:48 -!- als523 has changed nick to ehird.
17:33:53 <ehird> Um, you killed ais523?!
17:33:55 -!- ehird has changed nick to als523.
17:34:07 <als523> ... Bah, nick change limit.
17:34:09 <ais523> in fact, that's a 100% chance if you allow 'behind' to wrap around the world
17:34:17 -!- als523 has changed nick to ehird.
17:34:27 <ais523> ehird: I can see the nick changes in my client, you are unlikely to fool anyone like that
17:35:05 <ais523> what's the difference between <.< and >.>?
17:35:19 <ais523> is it like ec's upside-down smilies?
17:35:27 <ehird> ais523: <.< means you're looking one way
17:35:31 <ais523> (you draw smilies upside-down if you're left-handed, right?)
17:35:33 <evincar> ais523: Maybe it's a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full thing.
17:35:36 <ehird> >.< means your eyes are broken
17:35:39 <ehird> and <.> is something other
17:35:56 <ais523> ehird: <.> is that negative-list language
17:38:59 <ais523> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ
17:39:10 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̕̚ ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚ ̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̕̚
17:39:10 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚v
17:39:13 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:14 <ehird> ̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:18 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:23 <ehird> ̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:28 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:33 <ehird> ̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:40 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:45 <ehird> ̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:50 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:55 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:40:00 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:40:17 <ehird> one tiny block of text
17:40:19 <Slereah_> This is stupfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffvv
17:40:19 <ehird> takes like 934872395 bajillion messages
17:40:31 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉
17:40:34 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̕
17:40:41 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̕̚
17:40:46 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ
17:40:51 <ais523> ehird: what exactly are you doing?
17:40:51 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ cool it appears as one jumbled up char in here
17:40:55 <ehird> but in the channel
17:41:01 <ehird> little packet: ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ <- zooom
17:41:09 <ehird> ais523: your "·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ" appears as basically one-glyph length in the input box
17:41:10 <ais523> it's a combining-mark-bomb
17:41:16 <ehird> once you put it in the channel, though, it <--expands--->
17:41:20 <ehird> combining mark BOMB?
17:41:29 <ais523> one character, about a hundred bytes in UTF-8
17:41:42 <ais523> like a decompression bomb
17:42:04 <ais523> where you have a file which is a few megabytes, but decompresses to several petabytes and crashes your computer
17:43:19 <evincar> When I was learning about compression, I shot myself in the foot with something like that.
17:43:38 <evincar> One of my RLE files didn't write correctly.
17:44:27 <ehird> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ê
17:44:57 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ<-- TWO BLOCKS OF BOMB TORN APART -->.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ
17:47:16 <evincar> So, anyone have any new ideas lately?
17:47:31 -!- Corun has joined.
17:47:38 <evincar> Or anyone feel like making the reference interpreter for Selector?
17:47:58 <ehird> Can I do it in something obscure?
17:48:08 <ais523> evincar: I have a plan for a graph-rewriting language
17:48:29 <ehird> evincar: OK I'll implement selector
17:48:29 <evincar> ehird: If you want to do it yourself, you can do it in something obscure. Otherwise I wanted to collaborate on an obfuscated C version.
17:48:47 <ehird> I'll collaborate on an obfuscated C version but let's get a regular sane one to test on
17:49:02 <ais523> graphs are represented as strings of letters
17:49:11 <evincar> ehird: C or C++ for the standard impl?
17:49:11 <ehird> evincar: Is Ruby alright for an interp?
17:49:15 <ehird> It'd be pretty trivial for htis.
17:49:39 <ehird> A standard impl could be done last (after the testing one (this), and the obfuscated C one, I guess)
17:49:49 <ais523> unique letters are different nodes in the graph
17:49:58 <ais523> and letters adjacent in the string are adjacent in the graph
17:50:01 <evincar> ais523: You and your nodes.
17:50:09 <ais523> so abcde is a five-node graph o-o-o-o-o
17:50:17 <ais523> and eodermdrome is K_5
17:51:33 <ehird> evincar: you can stuff Selector on one line
17:51:34 <evincar> ehird: Ruby and I get along about as well as Quentin Tarantino and Bambi.
17:51:42 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO
17:51:46 <ehird> evincar: since the grammar is unabmigious
17:51:51 <ehird> maybe you should switch to that
17:51:53 <evincar> I'm going to change the wiki.
17:51:54 <ehird> instead of \n-termination
17:52:05 <ehird> of course, all whitespace should be ignored
17:52:06 <evincar> I think I forgot to mention that it's a style choice.
17:52:27 <evincar> All whitespace, non-capitals, and []-delimited text are ignored.
17:52:43 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK NINE MY ONE PICK NINE GO BACK MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT YOUR EIGHT YOUR EIGHT YOUR FIVE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR SEVEN MAKE PILE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR THREE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO GO FORWARD MY ONE GO BACK PICK FIVE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK FIVE MY ONE GO BACK PICK ZERO YOUR SIX MAKE PILE PICK NO
17:52:43 <ehird> SE MAKE HOLE LESS KNOB
17:52:55 <ehird> evincar: surely that look nicer than your previous one
17:53:03 <evincar> It's more concise, to be sure.
17:53:08 <evincar> I only put it with newlines for readability.
17:53:09 <ehird> evincar: try and read it out
17:53:30 <ehird> "All knob pick nine go forward pick zero your eight pick nine my one pick nine go back make pile pick nose make hole pick zero your eight, yoru eight, your eight your five make pile pick nose"
17:53:48 <ehird> "all knob. pick nine. go foward."
17:54:02 <ehird> evincar: shall i change the example?
17:54:17 <evincar> Sure. I'll change the source reqs.
17:55:29 <ehird> evincar: My interp will be able to make some things syntax errors due to the nicety of your syntax.
17:56:16 <evincar> Oh yeah. Remember that blocks have to be able to move around.
17:56:20 <ehird> evincar: PICK BLAH
17:56:29 <ehird> you need a modifier PICK
17:56:34 <ehird> that can go before an instruction
17:56:52 <evincar> If it's not justifiable, it's not going in.
17:57:21 <ehird> evincar: Um... realigns the plinckets
17:58:08 <evincar> Come to think of it... the source may be too easy to understand, considering that most of the commands are verb-noun.
17:58:29 <evincar> Or at least enough of them that you automatically read it in pairs.
17:58:39 <ehird> evincar: I like it this way
17:58:41 <ehird> it reads as silly poetr
17:58:43 <evincar> I'd like to keep PICK NOSE though.
17:58:52 <ehird> evincar: Suggestion -
17:58:54 <ehird> give the registers names
17:59:13 <evincar> I was going to do that, but I couldn't decide on names.
17:59:20 <evincar> That could be interesting.
17:59:30 <ehird> evincar: name one arse
17:59:32 <evincar> The closest I came was giving descriptions of the number's glyphs.
17:59:33 <ehird> MY ARSE MY ARSE MY ARSE
17:59:37 <ehird> YOUR ARSE YOUR ARSE YOUR ARSE
18:00:04 <evincar> All right, let's come up with a list.
18:00:29 <evincar> Oh, crap. Hang on a minute.
18:00:34 <ehird> i just like it as it is
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18:08:08 <ehird> evincar: what can an identifier be?
18:08:16 <ehird> also, may i suggest making code *unicode*?
18:08:21 <ehird> then we can have silly identifiers
18:10:18 <ehird> evincar: okay, i'm just making an identifier something other than whitespace
18:23:42 <ehird> http://www.flamingthunder.com/ This is a joke, right?
18:24:23 <ais523> ehird: what's at the other end of that link? I don't like clicking on links without some idea of what they link to
18:24:33 <ehird> ais523: a programming language
18:25:15 <Slereah_> Flaming Thunder looks really gay.
18:26:06 <ais523> ehird: well, they've misunderstood the GPL licence virus thing
18:26:19 <ehird> For example, we all learn that the negative of a negative is a positive, and in Flaming Thunder the following program writes 5 just as you'd expect:
18:26:23 <ais523> that particular interpretation of the GPL turned out only to apply to Bison
18:26:24 <ehird> ais523: reads like a joke to me
18:26:46 <ais523> so they put an explicit extra permission in Bison that you could do what you liked with the programs it output
18:26:51 <ehird> Welcome! Flaming Thunder is a powerful computer programming language for scientists, mathematicians and engineers that is also easy enough for elementary school students.
18:26:57 <ais523> for other programs, like gcc, the GPL doesn't restrict their outputs
18:27:12 <ais523> Bison was a special case because it copied most of itself into the output
18:30:32 <evincar> I don't know how I feel about unicode ids.
18:30:49 <evincar> And flaming thunder is a bad pun.
18:32:31 <ehird> evincar: Not long, by the way.
18:32:43 <ais523> the thing that turns me off Flaming Thunder is that all their downloads are executables
18:32:59 <ais523> they claim it was written entirely in assemler, though, so that's not that surprisng
18:33:20 <ehird> ais523: the -- thing must be a joke though
18:33:57 <ais523> ehird: I think they're being serious
18:34:09 <ehird> ais523: Really? :|
18:34:10 <ais523> the main 'appeal' of that language is that all operators mean exactly what they do in maths
18:34:19 <ais523> they're pointing out that that isn't true in most other languages
18:34:22 <ehird> And it's good for Scientists and 3 year olds
18:34:30 <ehird> ais523: their java program is invalid
18:34:36 <ais523> ehird: standard advertising jargon
18:34:51 <ehird> class asimplejavaprogram // missed 'public', must be Asimplejavaprogram or similar
18:35:20 <ais523> java's a pain to write programs in
18:35:31 <ais523> and Java class names are case-insensitive on Windows
18:35:38 <ehird> <ais523> and Java class names are case-insensitive on Windows
18:35:41 <ehird> the syntax is constant
18:35:45 <ehird> asimplejavaprogram is invalid
18:36:01 <ais523> yes, the missing public is needed
18:36:14 <ehird> the class name is invalid
18:36:25 <ais523> does it actually need a capital letter?
18:36:30 <ais523> Java's even stranger than I thought
18:36:54 <ehird> ais523: Ruby has that too, but that's just because classnames must be constnats
18:37:02 <ehird> and constants = first letter uppercase (because FOO, etc)
18:37:12 <ehird> thus leading to the CamelCase class naming convention
18:37:16 <ehird> iirc Foo_bar would be just as valid
18:38:24 <ehird> ais523: besides what mathematician would say 'Set x to 4'
18:38:55 <evincar> ehird: and how many people read the C statement "x = 4" as "x gets 4"?
18:39:08 <evincar> It's just a matter of semantics.
18:39:13 <ais523> the <- is actually pronounced 'gets'
18:39:17 <ehird> evincar: even so..
18:39:20 <ais523> it says so in the manual
18:39:23 <ehird> it depletes their argument
18:39:25 <ehird> of mathematical-notation
18:39:42 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:40:52 <evincar> ehird: have you started your Selector Ruby impl? I can't quite infer from your language.
18:41:13 <ehird> Wrote the parser already
18:41:33 <evincar> You need to make blocks movable because of the BECOME command.
18:41:55 <evincar> Yes. BECOME swaps the current block with another.
18:42:11 <evincar> It's the only way to do a non-adjacent jump.
18:42:33 <ehird> evincar: are the blocks ordered?
18:42:44 <evincar> I might have KNOB, MYBLOCK1, and MYBLOCK2 in order.
18:42:49 <ehird> evincar: by the order they appaer in the program?
18:43:06 <evincar> If MYBLOCK2 contains a BECOME MYBLOCK1 statement, then the new order is KNOB, MYBLOCK2, MYBLOCK1.
18:43:18 <ehird> evincar: And code is invalid outside a block right?
18:43:20 <ehird> And blocks can't be nested?
18:43:58 <evincar> There is no code that appears outside a block. If code leads the first block declaration in the program, it is really at the end of the last block declaration.
18:44:04 <evincar> And there's no way to nest blocks.
18:44:08 <evincar> There's no block terminator.
18:44:12 <evincar> A block ends when the next one begins.
18:44:39 <ehird> evincar: why not just have it an error?
18:44:42 <ehird> for the first thing
18:44:53 <evincar> (some code belonging to myblock1) ALL KNOB (some code belonging to knob) ALL MYBLOCK1 (more myblock1 code)
18:45:09 <evincar> If you don't feel like adding it, don't.
18:45:17 <evincar> I'm putting it in the standard impl.
18:45:20 <ehird> evincar: okay, but why should it be like that?
18:45:39 <evincar> Because execution is cyclical, so it's logical that the code should be treated as such.
18:47:12 * ehird didn't read the spec
18:48:36 <ehird> evincar: what is locked
18:48:45 <ais523> evincar: come over to #ircnomic, then you can Swhack ehird and actually get a point for it if ehird accepts
18:48:50 <ehird> evincar: all but one -- which one
18:49:31 <evincar> It's listed under "Special Blocks" as the program entry point.
18:49:42 <ehird> evincar: no knob == crash and burn right
18:49:56 <evincar> Nah. The program just doesn't do anything.
18:50:32 <evincar> KNOB is the only block that's unlocked by default, and since the program executes until there are no more unlocked blocks...
18:50:48 <ehird> evincar: But if you have NO blocks in a progam..
18:50:51 <evincar> it runs through all of the blocks, finds none unlocked, reaches the end, and exits without error.
18:51:17 <evincar> Then you could include code outside a block.
18:51:31 <evincar> So there has to be at least one ALL statement in the program.
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19:02:37 <ehird> evincar: What happens when we try to run a locked block?
19:03:30 <ehird> evincar: How do we know when the program is over?
19:03:46 <evincar> When there exist no unlocked blocks.
19:04:13 <evincar> You can easily keep a running count and terminate when it's zero.
19:04:34 <evincar> Remember that the count only starts at 1 if there is a KNOB block!
19:05:35 <ehird> evincar: OK. All I have to do is implement the real commands now
19:05:59 <evincar> It'll serve as a great reference.
19:06:39 <ehird> evincar: A block can stop executing half-way through right?
19:06:51 <ehird> But you can't go backwards. It's just ------->STOP! Do something else now
19:07:07 <evincar> Using the BECOME or ESCAPE commands.
19:08:15 <evincar> Should we keep a list of calling blocks instead of just one? Otherwise, recursive functions don't terminate, you can't have nested subs, and other Bad Things.
19:08:24 <ehird> evincar: What register is initially selected
19:09:08 <ehird> evincar: OH NOSE!!
19:09:29 <ehird> NOSE is a special one.
19:09:39 <ehird> evincar: What happens when you try and like do somethiing with a nose register
19:09:58 <ais523> ehird: it fails, obviously
19:09:59 <evincar> Raises a NOSE exception and BECOMEs the NOSE block.
19:10:52 <ais523> evincar: I actually read the spec
19:10:56 <ehird> evincar: after an exception like NOSE, where do we go?
19:11:00 <ehird> ais523: i'm reading it! ... kinda :<
19:12:24 <evincar> ehird: since the current block BECOMEs the NOSE block, you can either continue to the next block after NOSE has finished executing...
19:12:47 <evincar> ...or include an ESCAPE command in the NOSE block, in which case you jump back to the block you were executing before.
19:12:57 <ehird> evincar: so the next block in relation to the one we were executing before going to the NOSE block?
19:12:59 <evincar> Which is in a different position, I might add.
19:13:00 <ehird> or the one after NOSE?
19:13:20 * ehird dies. This is hard :P
19:13:38 <evincar> The next block in relation to the now-current block, being NOSE, which has taken the position of the block we were executing before.
19:13:48 <evincar> I never claimed it was simple.
19:14:14 <evincar> I never claimed it was simple to *implement*!
19:14:30 <ehird> evincar: So when we want to NOSE around, we move NOSE to where the current block is
19:14:34 <ehird> then carry on as normal, inside NOSE
19:14:43 <ehird> if that is true, then where do we move the current block?
19:15:09 <ehird> evincar: YOU MUST NOT LEAVE
19:15:27 <ehird> For me tonight = post-midnight
19:15:31 <ehird> I assume that's not your definition
19:16:11 <ehird> evincar: So ... Late, over here, in other words.
19:16:20 <ehird> It's possible I won't be there.
19:16:30 <ehird> also, i'm in the UK
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23:24:21 <ehird> evincar: i didn't work on the interp ;<
23:24:23 <ehird> can you forgive me
23:24:26 <ehird> .. it'll work tomorrow
23:24:51 <evincar> ehird: that's quite all right!
23:24:56 <evincar> I'm just happy someone's interested.
23:25:12 <ais523> evincar: I like your language too
23:25:15 <ais523> mostly due to PICK NOSE
23:26:46 <Sgeo> evincar, what's this?
23:27:55 <evincar> Sgeo: look on the wiki for Selector.
23:27:58 <evincar> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Selector I think
23:28:26 <evincar> The imterpreter is surprisingly difficult to make.
23:28:32 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK NINE MY ONE
23:28:40 <ehird> evincar: but i'll have mine by tomorrow ;)
23:29:31 <evincar> ehird: You need a closing GO BACK!
23:30:25 <ehird> evincar: it was just a snippit
23:30:51 <ais523> I GIVE UP 16 points and receive a Level 4 Dance.
23:30:57 <evincar> Snippets should be well-formed.
23:34:29 <evincar> Is there some change I can make to the spec that allows me to write, e.g., GentoO is BACK and have it be equivalent to GO BACK? It would require treating whitespace differently from other non-capitals...
23:34:34 <evincar> which I'm disinclined to do.
23:34:59 <ehird> evincar: yes there is
23:35:00 <evincar> I think a programmer could have a lot of fun with that.
23:35:04 <ehird> just state that all lowercase letters are ignored
23:36:10 <evincar> I'll make that an option for the interpreter. --poetry-mode
23:36:32 <ehird> just ignore lowercases
23:36:36 <ehird> i thought we were collaborating
23:36:39 <ehird> you break my heart! :<
23:37:32 <evincar> I'm just getting ideas down for a standard impl.
23:37:37 <evincar> Yours is the reference impl.
23:38:06 <ehird> uhh, what's the different
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23:38:25 <evincar> But what's the point of being sane when it comes to esoteria?
23:38:29 <evincar> I figure it wouldn't be so hard to compile it to C++...
23:38:34 <evincar> I'll talk about that in a moment.
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23:45:34 <SimonRC> ehird: what the fuck did you say back then?
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23:46:35 <SimonRC> but only when I tried to scrool back past it
23:46:41 <ehird> SimonRC: a unicode bomb
23:46:46 <ehird> SimonRC: a 100-byte single unicode char
23:47:01 <ehird> SimonRC: you munge loads of modifiers together
23:47:15 <SimonRC> I thought that screen passed those straight through?
23:47:28 <ehird> SimonRC: evidently irssi didn't like it
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23:47:34 <ehird> which made screen die
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23:49:39 <ais523> it was much bigger than that
23:49:41 <SimonRC> of course, those of you working in ISO-8859-* will be fine
23:50:02 <ais523> let me find the bomb and paste it here again, to see what happens
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23:51:26 <ais523> actually, no time for that, I've got to go
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23:51:39 <SimonRC> from the logs, it looks like screen died
23:53:16 <calamari> it's a bunch of chars in the logs, not just one
23:53:51 <calamari> ·̀Ì̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌ÌÌŽÌÌ̛̖̗̘̙̜̑̒̓̔̕̚ÌÌžÌŸÌ Ì¡Ì¢Ì£Ì¤Ì¥Ì¦Ì§Ì¨Ì©ÌªÌ«Ì¬Ì̴̵̶̷̸̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀ÍÍ‚ÍƒÍ„Í…Í Í¡.·̀Ì̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌ÌÌŽÌÌ̖̗̘̙̑̒̓̔̕Ì
23:53:51 <calamari> šÌ›ÌœÌÌžÌŸÌ Ì¡Ì¢Ì£Ì¤Ì¥Ì¦Ì§Ì¨Ì©ÌªÌ«Ì¬Ì̴̵̶̷̸̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀Í͂̓̈́ͅÍ
23:53:53 <Sgeo> Link to the log with the bomb?
23:54:12 <calamari> Sgeo: log is broken, doesn't matter
23:54:13 <Sgeo> That shows up to me as a bunch of gibberish with things that look like I's
23:54:15 <Sgeo> was that the bomb?
23:56:08 <calamari> anyways start looking at 09:36:57
23:56:39 <ehird> calamari: that's not the bomb
23:56:43 <ehird> the loggers are broken :)))
23:56:57 <calamari> ehird: so, since it's not in the log.. repost ;)
23:57:00 <SimonRC> I don't think the log is broken
23:57:14 <SimonRC> wgetting then catting the log seems to kill screen sessions
23:57:31 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: yes
23:57:36 <ehird> they are all under arrest
23:57:43 <ehird> calamari: i have to go now anyway
23:58:56 <ehird> but in a few minutse