00:00:39 ehird: Is ruby really the best language for implementing Selector? I'd suspect perl would do the trick with much less stress on your part. 00:00:48 evincar: i don't see why. 00:00:53 Almost all of it is done anyway. 00:00:58 But ... why would Perl be less painful? 00:01:01 All right. 00:01:15 Everything could be automated with regexes. 00:01:27 Then again, planning to implement it in C(++), I'm really one to talk. 00:01:28 PSOX is processed with regexes >.> 00:02:01 evincar: Not sanely. 00:02:07 The parse tree I have now is nice. 00:02:17 Sgeo: Psox psox psox psox psox psox psox psox psox psox psox ... new meme 00:02:21 Or rather old 00:02:24 meme. 00:02:28 ehird, you mentioned PSOX in the other channel 00:02:34 You reawoke the PSOX monster! 00:02:39 I wonder what else is vulnerable to unicode bombs? 00:02:51 Your mother. 00:03:53 It's true. 00:04:38 Bye for today. :) 00:04:43 Byehird 00:04:57 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:07:26 -!- Slereah has joined. 00:09:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 00:23:21 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:26:53 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 00:28:19 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:28:21 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 00:38:17 Well. This died. 00:43:33 -!- SimonRC has quit ("changing to a charset that can't crash screen"). 00:44:09 -!- evincar has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"). 01:21:01 -!- SimonRC has joined. 01:22:49 right, I am now immune to the killer UTF-8 glyphs 01:56:49 -!- EgoBot has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:00:25 -!- GregorR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:17:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 02:22:34 one of the example sentences in this online Esperanto course is "to share a wife with your neighbour". Wtf? 02:27:46 and how do you say it? 02:32:32 Dividi edzinon kun sia najbaro. 02:32:36 "thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" Ex 20:17 02:32:42 maybe it has something to do with that 02:34:02 to covet is one thing, to share is rather more risque 02:37:17 according to my footnotes.. covet " find pleasure in" 02:37:46 anyhow I think I found it online 02:37:47 http://www.esperanto.pl/page.php?tid=102020 02:37:57 17 Ne deziru la domon de via proksimulo; ne deziru la edzinon de via proksimulo, nek lian sklavon, nek lian sklavinon, nek lian bovon, nek lian azenon, nek ion, kio apartenas al via proksimulo. 02:38:01 not really the same 02:38:24 but it does have edzinon whatever that means 02:41:01 wife 02:42:20 "najbaro" and "proksimulo" both mean "neighbour", one is a direct borrowing from English and the other is formed internally as "one who's close" 02:45:09 are sia and via related? 03:01:50 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:23:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:29:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:14:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:03:34 -!- EgoBot has joined. 06:03:46 -!- GregorR has joined. 06:23:09 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 07:08:50 all entries in the esolang wiki should be commented by some of the regulars here (anyone really) with comments like "basically brainfuck, but "scrubulative scrittery" is a bit original, see line 105 of spec" 07:09:24 i mean, often it takes me about 25 minutes to get what's happening, and when i do, i realize it was a new way to explain an old idea :P 07:24:55 perhaps the wiki should be grepped for original ideas, and an ideawiki should be made 07:47:47 "Basically just P'', but the I/O is a bit original." 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:11:23 -!- Iskr has joined. 08:22:06 -!- lament has changed nick to sauxdado. 08:30:22 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:35:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:37:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 08:45:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:13:12 -!- Corun has joined. 09:29:27 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:03:34 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Unisex."). 11:06:21 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 11:25:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:59:54 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 12:08:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:14:30 -!- ehird has joined. 13:14:44 hi ehird 13:15:51 -!- ehird_ has joined. 13:15:54 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:15:59 have i mentioned i hate this compute 13:16:00 r 13:16:08 ehird_: possibly, I lose track 13:16:46 -!- ehird_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:17:10 Don't hate the computer, hate the.. uh, computation? 13:17:18 -!- ehird has joined. 13:17:24 sigh 13:20:34 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:21:05 -!- ehird has joined. 13:21:10 please kill me now 13:21:22 ais523: how many times have i disco/reco'd? 13:21:25 ehird: how? You'll end up offline before you can see the answer 13:21:33 ais523: ha 13:21:34 and 4 connections, 3 disconnections 13:21:46 wonderful 13:21:50 let's not make that 5/4 13:22:13 actually, ais523, I have a routine that makes crashes less likely 13:22:31 ehird: try not writing your IRC client in Java2K 13:23:27 -!- ehird_ has joined. 13:23:33 ais523: disregard that 13:23:38 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:23:44 ehird_: heh 13:23:59 okay 13:24:05 i'm just going to use xchat for a bit 13:24:08 no Epiphany, no-sir-ee 13:24:13 ehird_: use telnet 13:24:15 it's more reliable 13:24:21 so, mr. ais523, how are you today? are your cabbages moltworthy? 13:24:32 ais523: telnet, programmed in CLC-INTERCAL with INTERNET 13:24:33 ehird_: not without extra definitions 13:24:44 ais523: interesting. is the transformation function turing-complex? 13:24:52 ehird_: the INTERNET is needed to do the select() 13:24:57 ehird_: no, it's uncomputable 13:25:04 that's why I'm having so much trouble with it 13:25:09 but it's only TC in all but a few special cases 13:25:22 very jolly. how about you post a link that proves it so that i can open it with my inter~web Browsemachine? 13:25:52 ehird_: because it isn't finished yet 13:25:56 in fact, it isn't even started 13:26:09 I was speaking hypothetically about the cabbages 13:26:18 not about an INTERCAL IRC client 13:26:24 in fact, I was in two conversations with you at once 13:26:26 you just didn't notice 13:26:28 ais523: you still haven't given me an interlink~web 13:26:29 sorry 13:26:31 and i did notice 13:26:34 just .. confusingly 13:27:01 ehird_: I don't have a link to prove it, because any statements I made recently that I might have been expected to prove are in fact false 13:27:01 now give me an linkweb~net 13:27:09 ais523: I need a link to open my browser goddamnit. 13:27:18 http://esolangs.org 13:27:19 The menus are crashy. 13:27:20 will that do? 13:27:30 THANK YOU 13:27:33 But it won't load. 13:27:34 :P 13:27:45 ehird_: about:blank 13:27:49 hmm, my client didn't link that 13:27:54 I wonder if about://blank works? 13:28:00 no, that wasn't linked either 13:28:05 and probably isn't a real address 13:29:11 -!- ehird_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:29:20 bye again :( 13:30:00 -!- ARRRRGH has joined. 13:30:09 -!- ARRRRGH has quit (Client Quit). 13:30:19 -!- aaaargh has joined. 13:30:23 FUCKING FUCKSHIT 13:30:29 IN ASDLAKSD 13:30:32 hello ehird 13:30:40 yeah hi :| 13:30:41 or someone else on the same IP, possibly 13:30:55 so guyz my epiphany is b0rken 13:31:01 halp 13:31:16 aaaargh: which OS? 13:31:32 debian dinosaur(stable) on pc(shitty) 13:31:49 debian stable is officially referred to one of: etch, dinosaur 13:32:03 dinosaur? I'm unaware of that version 13:32:08 how far before etch is it? 13:32:18 or is it so new I haven't heard of it? 13:32:56 -!- aaaargh has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:33:12 -!- ehird has joined. 13:34:23 ehird: I just said that I was unaware of debian dinosaur 13:34:26 how new or old was it? 13:34:32 I know of etch, of course 13:41:54 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:42:11 -!- fcnshtonaple has joined. 13:42:11 -!- fcnshtonaple has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:42:27 -!- foobarbazquux has joined. 13:42:31 .............. 13:42:40 Hi from failsafe xterm. 13:42:47 hello 13:42:50 ais, whta the ffuck do i do 13:42:55 this is totally broken 13:42:56 I don't know 13:43:07 gonna try real gome, because i'm trigger-nappy 13:43:11 er, happy 13:43:13 I haven't even heard of the version of Debian you're on 13:43:24 I've heard of etch, but not dinosaur 13:43:26 it's etch. i call it dinosaur because it is old. 13:43:30 oh 13:43:33 all its software is obsolete 13:43:39 :) 13:43:40 there was a dinosaur in Toy Story, though, IIRC 13:43:45 so it's a reasonable name 13:43:47 i assume it had a name, though. 13:43:57 yes, but I can't remember what it was 13:44:04 QUIT 13:44:09 -!- foobarbazquux has quit (Client Quit). 13:44:43 -!- ehird has joined. 13:44:47 so on the subject of cabbages 13:44:49 how many times now? 13:45:15 11 joins, and therefore probably 10 quits 13:45:38 I don't see how your OS can be so broken, though 13:45:45 ais523: It's not the OS, it's the computer. 13:45:50 It is brokenness itself 13:46:06 but this is exceptionally bad 13:46:06 ehird: what, you mean the processor's glitching, or something? 13:46:06 normally it takes ~3 restarts 13:46:07 ais523: i think so 13:46:08 and the ram 13:46:10 and everything else 13:46:20 ehird: try running a memory-test tool? 13:46:24 ais523: lazy 13:46:35 'teh webness' is working now anyway 13:46:35 and /is/ there a processor-test tool? 13:46:36 hopefully.. 13:46:43 and i don't think so, that's kind of goedelian 13:48:27 -!- ehird_ has joined. 13:48:27 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:48:32 FUCK THIS PEICE OF FUCKING SHIT 13:48:35 IT HAS BEEN AN HOUR SINCE I TURNED IT ON 13:48:41 IT HAS NOT BEEN STABLE FOR FIVE GOD DAMN MINUTES 13:48:42 NOT ONCE 13:48:51 ehird_: are there any clients that can deal with this sort of thing? 13:48:52 USELESS CRAP 13:48:58 ais523: bouncers 13:49:01 ais523: but i don't care 13:49:07 hmm... what about running yes, and seeing how long it takes before it goes wrong? 13:49:07 i just want this to NOT CRASH EVERY 2 SECONDS 13:49:22 and yes kinda eats up memory if you have a scrollback buffer 13:49:23 if your computer can't handle yes, it's utterly broken 13:49:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:49:28 ehird_: oh 13:49:35 yes actually causes glitches on the monitor 13:49:37 but i think that's unrelated 13:49:53 what about running factor on some random numbers? 13:50:03 can you get an even prime greater than 2? 13:50:05 ais523: it's not fundamentally broken. it'd work if i used console mode, 4eva 13:50:12 but add a gui in to the mix.. 13:50:16 well, twm should work 13:50:21 ehird_: maybe the video card is crazy 13:50:25 and text mode's entirely usable 13:50:34 ais523: it's built-in 13:50:36 so i don't think so 13:50:44 but factor(1) works 13:51:23 -!- Corun has joined. 13:51:32 ais523: i cannot believe a computer can be this broken 13:51:35 it's like frankenstein's monster 13:51:45 many have tried to fix it over the years 13:51:47 none haev succeeded 13:51:52 ehird_: no, frankenstein's monster is a Nomic rule 13:51:59 some even disbelieve that it is that bad 13:52:00 but seriously, you should find out what's wrong with it before you can fix it 13:52:09 a friend has said to me that it's me mucking about with my OS 13:52:13 and "everything" may be correct, but you need to prove that first 13:52:13 but no! 13:52:20 and your friend is likely wrong 13:52:20 ais523: well, this isn't my main machine 13:52:22 thank GOD 13:53:15 ehird_: why are you using it now? 13:53:21 perversity, or is there a better reason? 13:53:42 ais523: long story 13:53:44 Deewiant, there? 13:53:51 but i'm not perverse 13:53:56 i would never choose to use this machine 13:54:08 Deewiant, For the o instruction, in text mode, "o treats the file as a linear text file; that is, any spaces before each EOL, and any EOLs before the EOF, are not written out" 13:54:11 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:54:15 yes... 13:54:26 Deewiant, EOL as in end of write out? 13:54:28 as in 13:54:30 say 13:54:32 1243 13:54:34 5678 13:54:36 EOF as in end of file 13:54:39 is the block to write out 13:54:39 EOL as in end of line 13:54:48 up to you 13:54:51 then there is a EOL at each such block when writing out right? 13:54:52 "I don’t understand why there isn’t a program like KDE’s KPaint for Gnome/Ubuntu." <-- Um, GIMP anyone? 13:54:55 Deewiant, is that correct? 13:54:56 in my opinion, you should kill the spaces after 1243 as well 13:55:08 or wait, what did you ask? 13:55:10 Deewiant, but then what if the area to write out contains a LF 13:55:13 say: 13:55:19 123\n4 13:55:25 in that case 13:55:27 123 \n4 13:55:30 ehird_: GIMP is pretty different 13:55:33 would that remove those spaces? 13:55:33 it can't draw circles 13:55:38 it's for a different purpose 13:55:47 ais523: Right, but still 13:55:50 I use both GIMP and KolourPaint, for different things 13:55:51 ais523: The guy wanted a paint-equiv. 13:55:55 i.e. for simple drawings 13:55:58 ehird_: GIMP isn't a paint-equiv 13:56:02 it's missing features that Paint has 13:56:04 Deewiant, or just any spaces after the newline as in "new row to write data from"? 13:56:09 AnMaster: you mean the case where you've done a 10p into space thus putting a line feed in the middle of a line without affecting Funge-Space? 13:56:17 Deewiant, exactly 13:56:29 KolourPaint is the best of the programs I've tried as being a paint-equiv, and it's in the Ubuntu repos, but it's KDE 13:56:43 ais523: this is the article: http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/is-ubuntu-useable-enough-for-my-girlfriend/ (from reddit) 13:56:53 I have to go for a while 13:56:54 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 13:56:55 ais523, you want inkscape maybe? 13:56:58 AnMaster: yes, and that's up to you and unspecified. CCBI does remove those spaces. 13:57:11 Deewiant, hm. *notes for 108 standard* 13:57:18 AnMaster: because, for instance, the Fungus test suite depends on that. 13:57:23 or rather, doesn't depend on that 13:57:28 but it does its output in such a way 13:57:28 err what? 13:57:39 you know the Fungus test suite 13:57:46 aye 13:57:47 it does its output into files, using o in linear text mode 13:57:53 ok 13:57:55 and I was wondering why there were spaces at the end of all the lines 13:58:00 and it was because of that. 13:58:29 where is your write out code, load is in utils.d, but not write? 13:59:03 Deewiant, hm I see 13:59:05 oh well 13:59:34 it's in instructions.d 14:00:09 doing that does mean that it has to do a lot of extra processing of the output 14:00:15 so you two people ... would you suggest that implementing befunge-98 is fun? 14:00:16 :-) 14:00:36 ehird_, aye 14:00:46 to a point 14:00:50 TRDS wasn't ;-) 14:01:06 well for now I won't do like ccbi on this 14:01:17 Deewiant, auto lines = splitLines(row); 14:01:18 where 14:01:20 is that function 14:01:28 sounds like something that'd be in utils.d 14:01:39 nop not there 14:01:44 oh I want to do things like TRDS!!!! 14:01:46 :D 14:01:47 grep for it... 14:01:49 import tango.text.Util : join, splitLines; 14:01:53 there ya go 14:01:54 Deewiant, that is relevant? 14:01:57 and that means what? 14:02:04 from tango.text.Util import join and splitLines 14:02:05 AnMaster: that means 'from tango.text.Util import join, splitLines' 14:02:07 I see 14:02:13 even i could figure that out 14:02:15 and i don't know D 14:02:17 :-P 14:02:29 okay, AnMaster -- you say 'aye', but what about implementing N-funge 14:02:34 for any N>0 14:02:37 #include but just some functions 14:02:54 ehird_, hm you mean generic at compile time? 14:03:01 AnMaster: no. runtime 14:03:07 could be possible in C with a lot of macros to handle vectors 14:03:13 ehird_, well, not sure 14:03:15 but would it be fun 14:03:16 :) 14:03:33 ehird_, not sure, probably a bit painful 14:03:41 :( 14:03:42 but some ppl do think that is fun so... oh well 14:03:43 I hate pain 14:03:43 * AnMaster runs 14:03:47 Are fingerprints portable? 14:03:51 3dtrds? 14:03:54 ehird_, err what= 14:04:04 depends on the fingerprint specs 14:04:05 will, e.g. TRDS work on N-d 14:04:24 if it says "pop a vector" then I guess yes 14:04:31 if it says "pop x and then y" then no 14:04:51 TRDS is only implemented in Befunge interpreters anyway ;-) 14:05:54 Deewiant: Do any Nfunge interps exist? 14:05:56 Where N!=2? 14:06:01 Well. 14:06:05 BeQunge don't count. 14:06:14 !Befunge does trefunge and unefunge IIRC 14:06:17 Huh? 14:06:22 EgoBot: shaddup 14:06:24 crap name isn't it 14:06:57 shrug 14:07:04 I checked and indeed it does 14:07:34 Language::Befunge has some n-dimension support but nothing's finished yet as far as I can tell 14:07:50 err, lets see... 14:07:52 i.e. the groundwork is there but it doesn't work yet 14:08:08 Deewiant, is it ok to truncate the cell to a char when writing it out? 14:08:12 in theory I mean 14:08:20 otherwise I guess fputs won't work, damn 14:08:20 well, what else are ya going to do with it :-P 14:08:36 Deewiant, hm? 14:08:49 print char# 12311 for me 14:09:03 hm sigh 14:09:16 don't truncate 14:09:17 modulo 14:09:19 there isn't much choice is there :-P 14:09:26 that's probably what he meant 14:09:51 what I mean is that fputs takes a char*, not a int64_t* 14:10:26 problem is that if I write it out as int64_t* with fwrite I get other issues 14:10:33 Deewiant, see what I mean? 14:10:38 AnMaster: so: 14:10:44 because then I end up with a lot of null bytes for those areas 14:10:44 for one 14:10:45 use fputc 14:10:47 and then 14:10:55 fputc(stdout, (char)(x%255)) 14:11:07 ehird_: %256 14:11:20 &255 ;-) 14:11:29 err yes 14:11:32 err what? 14:11:40 AnMaster: do you not know what modulo is. 14:11:45 yes I know 14:11:47 if so stop programming now :D 14:12:00 but I was wondering over what Deewiant meant with &255 in that case 14:12:40 &255 == %256 14:12:48 AnMaster: now do benchmarks 14:12:52 YOU MUST SEE WHICH IS FASTER!!!!!!!!!! 14:13:31 any compiler will optimize the latter to the former :-P 14:13:39 Deewiant, indeed 14:13:50 Deewiant: AnMaster doesn't trust his compiler 14:13:56 Deewiant, not sure about the D compiler but gcc will at least 14:14:06 I see 14:14:09 AnMaster: any compiler 14:14:12 I mean /any/ compiler 14:14:20 Deewiant, sure about that? 14:14:20 that's like the most basic optimization there is :-P 14:14:28 heh 14:14:31 of course I'm not sure 14:14:47 but I think you'll have a hard time finding an optimizing compiler which doesn't 14:15:05 of course it's different when dealing with bigints or the like. 14:33:06 57.5 14:42:25 hahah, ehird_ you will love this, some of my micro optimizing to preallocate file when writing resulted in trailing null byte garbage when writing in text mode 14:42:39 so now I only use it for binary mode 14:42:40 * AnMaster runs 14:42:55 AnMaster: You've never read Knuth... have you 14:43:02 nop 14:43:18 Normally I hate the over-quoting of "Premature optimization is the root of all evil", but by god it applies here 14:43:32 If he was here you could expect a few swhacks 14:43:44 ehird_, indeed 14:43:47 I know 14:44:02 ehird_, yet this is designed for speed :P 14:44:50 AnMaster: You don't understand. :-) 14:44:58 actually, even Linus would be swhacking you 14:45:05 and he's quite fond of speed.. 14:45:16 ehird_, I did that microoptimizing just to irritate you 14:49:57 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:50:04 ehird_, also there is another reason 14:50:12 making sure there is enough space in advance 14:50:24 thus being able to error out early if something goes wrong 14:55:53 "and any EOLs before the EOF," 14:55:54 sigh 15:14:15 http://www.p01.org/releases/Demoscene/files/mandelbrot_rotozoom_256b_javascript_1.1.htm An animated Mandelbrot set, in one line (not 24759345 chars) of JavaScript 15:21:28 insane heh 15:22:32 AnMaster: yep 15:22:56 I looked at the source, quite interesting it can be done with so little code in javascript 15:33:44 AnMaster: i can probably do it pretty short in ruby or something 15:33:46 let me try 15:35:13 should be possible to do in C too quite short I think, just adding a clear screen or something 15:35:37 maybe shorter even as you wouldn't need Math. for cos and such 15:36:16 not that I'm going to try 15:36:56 AnMaster: i'm not so sure. C just isn't one for golfing, beyond evil platform tricks 15:37:05 heh 15:37:34 ehird_, what is the goal with golfing really? "as short as possible" or "as fast as possible" or? 15:37:43 AnMaster: as short as possible 15:37:44 in bytes 15:37:47 ah 15:37:51 it's not practical of course 15:37:54 but it IS tremendous fun 15:38:01 the best two golfing languages are generally perl and ruby 15:38:14 ruby coming second due to its perl heritage, it supporst a lot of the stuff perl does for golfing 15:38:21 sometimes ruby even beats perl 15:38:46 hm 15:39:06 AnMaster: two good golf sites: 15:39:07 ehird_, as short as possible in generated machine code would be more interesting I think 15:39:08 :) 15:39:11 and no.. 15:39:18 that's just "how good is your compiler" 15:39:24 it's not meant to be useful 15:39:25 but it's fun 15:39:27 not really 15:39:29 two good golf sites: 15:39:30 not if you do it in asm 15:40:08 http://golf.shinh.org/ - anarchy golf/anagolf. Has a lot of Rubyists and perlists, but even COBOLers and similar -- it's diverse. Anyone can start a challenge, etc. My favourite, ais523 from here participates too 15:40:30 http://codegolf.com/ - Code Golf. More formal. Challenges organized, hidden input/output pairs, etc. 15:40:42 AnMaster: you know about anagolf 15:40:42 bt 15:40:46 the PRINT LOADS one 15:40:47 that your C failed on 15:40:49 ah yes 15:40:51 was due to linux pipelines 15:40:53 having a maximum length. 15:40:57 ah I see... 15:40:57 but shinh fixed that 15:41:10 apparently most programs on it got close to the maximum exec time limit tho :) 15:41:21 heh 15:41:29 AnMaster: one great one was seeding the ruby RNG with the process id, modulo something 15:41:35 then the random number generator would produce 1,2,3... 15:42:09 oh? 15:42:15 why would that work? 15:42:37 AnMaster: it's just if you seed the mersenne twister the right way 15:42:40 it produces sequential numbers 15:42:58 well, why is process id important? 15:43:13 AnMaster: it's a number in the thousands that if you submit multiple times goes up by one each run 15:43:17 more or lses 15:43:21 12012, 12013, etc 15:43:26 so if you modulo it right 15:43:28 hm true 15:43:29 and resubmit a lot 15:43:33 then you can hit on the right number :) 15:43:38 AnMaster: and it's $$ in ruby 15:43:41 aha 15:43:41 $$%X 15:43:43 short yeah 15:43:43 four symbols 15:44:20 but wouldn't it be shorter to just write the number instead (maybe) 15:44:30 depends on what X is of course 15:44:43 ehird_, oh and a lot of systems make PID random 15:44:49 AnMaster: but not the anagolf system 15:44:51 :-) 15:44:57 yeah 15:44:58 also, AnMaster 15:45:04 there can be multiple inputoutput pairs 15:45:07 ehird_, still *very* brittle algorithm ;P 15:45:10 so moduloing and conditioning on that 15:45:16 :)) 15:45:20 like 15:45:30 well 15:45:32 hard to find an example 15:45:34 but you get what i mean 15:45:44 also... brittle algos are the whole point of golf :))) 15:45:47 you mean like; 15:45:50 2+3 15:45:52 one of the ones there assigns main to a string constant 15:45:53 outputs 5 15:45:56 2+1 15:45:58 outputs 3? 15:45:59 yeah, AnMaster 15:46:06 you could do 15:46:10 p$$%4 15:46:17 hmh? 15:46:24 hmm 15:46:26 %7 might work pest. 15:46:27 *best 15:46:46 ehird@debian:~$ ruby -e'p$$%7' 15:46:46 6 15:46:46 ehird@debian:~$ ruby -e'p$$%7' 15:46:46 0 15:46:46 ehird@debian:~$ ruby -e'p$$%7' 15:46:47 1 15:46:49 ehird@debian:~$ ruby -e'p$$%7' 15:46:51 2 15:46:53 mhm 15:46:53 ehird@debian:~$ ruby -e'p$$%7' 15:46:55 3 15:46:57 etc 15:47:01 p is? 15:47:03 print? 15:47:37 ehird_, or? 15:48:35 AnMaster: "p(x)" is "puts(x.inspect)" 15:48:40 ah 15:48:42 AnMaster: and .inspect is like a pretty-print 15:48:45 p "abc" 15:48:46 prints "abc" 15:48:47 literally 15:48:52 (puts "abc" prints abc) 15:48:54 with the quotes, hm ok 15:48:59 AnMaster: it's just raw-printing 15:49:06 ok 15:49:09 AnMaster: it's, e.g. what the interactive loop prints out 15:49:17 irb(main):001:0> "abc" 15:49:17 => "abc" 15:49:23 ok 15:50:09 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?embed <-- Looks like someone's been monitoring atom decay again.. 16:00:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:10:39 ais523 returns 16:10:47 ais523: the computer hasn't crashed! joy! 16:10:49 yep, lecture finished 16:11:06 * ais523 waits for #ircnomic to become more active 16:11:17 oh, and I joined Agora 16:11:51 ais523: be sure to eminate the pedantickr'y that emerges from your presence 16:11:57 pedantickr'y is a nice word 16:12:06 ehird_: not a very pedantically correct one, though 16:12:09 i want to speak like that all the time 16:12:10 but it seems Agoran 16:12:36 ais523: what's the past-future HHGTTG way to suffix 'spoke'? 16:12:42 ehird_: no idea 16:12:51 I wioll haven spoken like that in the future. 16:12:54 ais523: or something 16:13:37 ais523: wow, for a second i didn't connect you with 'Alexander Smith' 16:13:40 that was weird 16:13:44 i thought you'd put a fake name in 16:13:51 why would I do that? 16:13:58 ais523: no idea 16:14:02 it would also require control over my email system... 16:14:11 "ais523, a first-class person with as yet no relevant Titles, bids Agora hello." <-- is a second-class person one that can't be passed and returned to functions? 16:14:26 ehird_: no, it's a person which does not correlate to a human being 16:14:35 Agora's full of distinctions like that 16:14:54 ais523: agora is probably the only system with more subtle corner-cases than real life 16:15:04 ehird_: they're mostly edge-cases on Agora 16:15:18 ais523: also, ihope's ye Marvy scam failed 16:15:20 see ed murphy's reply 16:15:26 ehird_: I will do when I reach it 16:15:33 I'm reading the April list archives at the moment 16:15:45 so as to gain a sense of which public contracts exist 16:16:07 ais523: wow, gmail notices that threads spam both agora-business and agora-discussion 16:16:13 and merges them correctly when i view it in one 16:16:16 *span 16:16:28 ehird_: I prefer the first version 16:16:32 ais523: due to the fact that it's single messages which are tagged 16:16:35 ais523: instead of threads 16:17:26 " 16:17:26 I announce that I change my posture to sitting, by means of Rule 1871/24 (which provides that I CAN change my posture in this way by announcement) and Rule 478/22 (which provides that if I CAN perform an action by announcement, I can do so by sending a public message)." 16:17:30 that has to be the most pointless email ever sent 16:17:34 even spam has a purpose 16:17:36 ehird_: it doesn't need to be that complicated 16:17:40 it does do something 16:17:56 the rest of it is explanation as to how I can do that, which isn't actually needed but seems appropriate 16:18:17 'I also agree to the Constitution of Canada.' -- ihope 16:18:26 ehird_: I noticed that 16:18:45 ais523: we should replace it with 'ihope does not agree with this rule' 16:18:52 ircnomic's ruleset that is 16:18:57 ehird_: no, not yet 16:19:02 I have other plans for the ruleset 16:19:12 but I don't want them to impact just ihope, they need to catch everyone 16:19:16 ais523: LIKE REMOVING THE STUPID UPPERCASE THING RIGHT 16:19:30 ehird_: no, BTW, Agora is case-insensitive, at least it's inconsistent about the case of 'rule' 16:19:39 rules and Rules are the same thing 16:19:45 yeah, but if agora didn't suck we wouldn't be scamming it 16:19:46 :D 16:19:48 and used interchangeably in the Rules 16:19:54 ehird_: Agora doesn't suck! 16:20:07 it sucks compared to ircnomic! 16:20:15 where by ircnomic I mean ircnomic - uppercase requirement! 16:23:46 well cfunge is soon ready for a new release 16:25:07 -!- jix has joined. 16:25:07 ehird_, IRCNOMIC you mean= 16:25:09 * AnMaster runs 16:25:15 AnMaster: Die! 16:25:17 :D 16:25:25 Why EHIRD_? 16:25:40 AnMaster: I am behind you. Prepare to die! 16:25:45 haha 16:26:51 ehird_, not valid, as you are not BEHIND me :P 16:28:06 -!- oklopol has joined. 16:28:39 parseul={!x:_;(!x=='` & ! x+1 & ! x+2 ~ class[]) => ! x..x+2 = [! x+1,! x+2]} <<< this must be the weirdest unlambda parser ever. 16:28:54 well doesn't work for "."'s 16:29:16 oklopol: wow 16:29:17 what's that in 16:29:21 oklotalk? 16:29:21 Ef. 16:29:23 oh 16:29:24 cool 16:29:30 i'll explain that 16:29:37 in case you want me to 16:29:41 it's a bit complicated 16:29:42 maybe in a minute :) 16:29:51 oklopol: i can see that it uses ` to increase twice 16:29:54 and then decrements when it finds something 16:29:57 to get it to 0 when balanced 16:29:58 i think 16:30:04 hmm 16:30:05 so it uses x as a 'termination/nesting counter' 16:30:07 kind of 16:30:08 doesn't sound correct :) 16:30:32 basically, it says "find `ab where a and b have been evaluated, and clip them together" 16:30:34 err 16:30:35 parsed 16:30:58 ! x+1 & ! x+2 ~ class[] <<< the element after x and the element after that are lists 16:31:01 Huh? 16:31:32 EgoBot doesn't get it. 16:31:57 5&2 < 8 == $t, 5&9 < 8 == $f 16:32:13 operators are fairly clever and overloaded 16:32:59 & kinda builds "mapping-trees", where certain operations will then map an operation everywhere 16:33:40 i realized Ef is starting to be so weird already i might as well stuff some of my older ideas in it 16:34:18 oklopol, what kind of language is Ef? 16:34:27 and what happened to oklotalk? 16:34:36 you can also do that mapping-tree with a lambda... although it's not as pretty as in a functional language, because you have to take into account the fact the fixed-point is taken 16:35:03 AnMaster: oklotalk is just one of my languages, i have dozens 16:36:00 (all {x:_;! x:(class[])=>$f} [! x+1,! x+2]) here, the "fixambda" or whatever weird name i choose for the concept is applied to the list, as one would expect with all 16:36:22 the lambda is fixed-point style again, i may have to explain it a bit 16:36:30 oklopol, so is Ef a functional language? 16:36:43 AnMaster: it's a fixed-point language 16:37:05 oklopol, as in not using floating point numbers? 16:37:27 AnMaster: no, fixed point as in fix f arg == f f f f ... f f arg 16:37:34 f is applied infinite times 16:37:42 errr 16:37:50 oklopol: anmaster is a dirty C micro-optimizer 16:37:57 he doesn't understand any functional paradigms 16:37:58 :) 16:38:05 also 16:38:14 {x:_;! x:(class[])=>$f} <<< so, basically, this says if x belongs to the argument list, and x is not a list, $f is "returned", in which case it will automatically be the fixed point too 16:38:16 fix f arg = f (f (f ... (f arg))))) 16:38:20 not f f f f .. arg 16:38:25 because x:_; will fail after that 16:38:25 though inf-arg funcs would be cool :) 16:38:51 ehird_: depends on notation 16:39:00 but yeah, haskell should be assumed 16:39:13 not 16:39:14 *now 16:39:24 whoope 16:39:25 actually... 16:39:55 oklopol: f f f arg is ((f f) f) arg in haskell 16:39:56 :D 16:40:05 i'm not sure my explanations are at all helpful, i'm fairly sure no one has a deep enough understanding about the paradigm 16:40:14 ehird_: i know, i wasn't using haskell notation! 16:40:24 but, you know, fixed-amount-of-arguments prefix 16:41:40 unfortunately, the complexity of the language is getting out of hand, so i'll prolly have to implement a subset quickly so ppl can try it 16:41:57 it's a very different way to look at algorithms 16:42:06 kinda declarative... but entirely imperative 16:42:58 well, imperative with existential quantifiers i guess 16:43:10 but you can also do directly declarative stuff 16:43:36 i also thought of a quicksort... in-place, i'll code it up 16:43:55 but, the "all" call there was not needed 16:44:16 ({x:_;! x:(class[])=>$f} [! x+1,! x+2]) <<< this is the other way to write ! x+1 & ! x+2 ~ class[] 16:44:38 but it uses a weird backwards type inference trick 16:45:11 well, fairly intuitive trick, but it's a bit complicated still 16:45:16 hmmm 16:45:43 actually, it's not really a quicksort in that it doesn't necessarily do pivotting in any sane way 16:56:54 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:57:45 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p552412665.txt 16:58:08 * does some "cheating", used for escaping problems with a complete fixed point 16:58:33 mostly optimization, at least here it's not actually necessary for correct result 16:59:34 * basically splits into two different functions, basically ({a; *; b} arg) means ({b} ({a} arg)) 16:59:54 basically basically asic allyer 17:01:15 oh, right, and in *p:_; we are fixing the value of p for the whole evaluation 17:01:56 i'm fairly sure oklotalk will be a fucking vacation to implement compared to this :P 17:03:21 p.. is a bit iffy, because i'm not sure if i want postfix operators... 17:03:30 but they should work nicely 17:03:54 i'm aiming for 0 need for parenthesis if you don't want them 17:04:09 without having to use multiple adjacent spaces often 17:05:07 -!- Corun has joined. 17:05:36 does the sort make sense? 17:12:33 ehird_: pretend you read that, found it interesting and understood it! 17:12:48 oklopol: yep 17:12:50 ti was cool 17:13:00 it was in fact made of copglobs 17:13:01 oklopol: I skimmed it, found it vaguely interesting, but do not currently have the mental energy to attempt to understand it 17:13:04 and on another note 17:13:08 someone tell me how awesome my todo app will be 17:13:14 I suspect I will find it interesting when I am capable of serious thought 17:13:38 ais523: do you know of a db like sqlite (mini, one-file) that still supports decent sql constraints? 17:13:41 like foreign keys and stuff 17:13:44 sqlite parses 'em but ignores them 17:13:51 it does do triggers and transactions though 17:13:53 ehird_: no 17:13:53 but it is typeless 17:14:07 eh, sqlite should be ok 17:14:20 ais523: will you help me write the sql i suck at it ;) 17:14:34 ehird_: maybe, but I'm not used to foreign keys and triggers 17:14:51 ais523: okay, now name my todo program: 'to' or 'toto' 17:14:56 well atm i'm fairly excited about it... i'm pretty sure nothing willl actually work fast enough to be usable, but the way to program in it seems to be quite different from all functional, imperative and declarative programming i've done 17:14:59 the latter lets me make a pun about it not being in kansas anymore 17:15:02 the former is quicker to type 17:15:02 god i think slow 17:15:11 ehird_: toto, to's already taken 17:15:15 ehird_ spouts 20 lines while i ponder my one line 17:15:16 ais523: for what? 17:15:34 "Communication and Status Utilities", apparently 17:15:43 command-not-found is useful for this sort of thing 17:15:56 i'm on two courses about sql atm 17:16:18 ais523: that's unhelpful 17:16:20 :) 17:16:20 wrote an sql interp, but that's really all i've done with it :D 17:16:23 2008-04-28 18:36:42 ( oklopol) AnMaster: it's a fixed-point language 17:16:23 2008-04-28 18:37:05 ( AnMaster) oklopol, as in not using floating point numbers? 17:16:27 apologies, but LOL 17:16:35 Deewiant: anmaster thinks at machine level :D 17:16:35 ? 17:16:35 Deewiant: yes, that amused me too 17:16:44 seriously, that cracked me up :-D 17:17:00 ais523: so who uses 'to' 17:17:05 and why should i care about them 17:17:06 ...because AnMaster should've known what fixed-point languages were? :D 17:17:06 ehird_: probably nobody 17:17:17 i can just suggest an alias to=toto i guess 17:17:19 i guess the guess was a bit comical 17:17:19 actually, it's probably more popular than INTERCAL 17:17:22 ais523: will youuuu use my todo? :P 17:17:32 ehird_: probably not, I don't use anyone else's 17:18:13 oklopol: the guess mostly, I admit I wouldn't have expected him to know what fixed-point means in that context 17:18:17 ais523: it'll be all unixy 17:18:20 and intuitive 17:18:34 well what meaning of fixed point... 17:19:45 AnMaster: well, a language withoug floating point numbers isn't very esoteric... but all i really found funny was how you just said "errr" after i tried to explain and dissappeared :P 17:19:54 oklopol: WILL YOU USE MY TODO :< 17:20:03 ais523: actually, you'd like it because it USES A DB WHOMFG 17:20:06 ehird_: yes i will use it for everything 17:20:10 all the time 17:20:15 i will devote my life to using it 17:20:42 oklopol: lvoe <3 17:21:22 oklopol, google for fixed point language 17:21:34 ais523: okay emacs question 17:21:37 all top 3 hits are about "not floating point" 17:21:41 ais523: how can i make the buffer list open in the other frame 17:22:00 ehird_: I've never tried to do that, try prefixing with C-x 4? 17:22:01 AnMaster: i haven't implied you were stupid for not knowing it, i just said it was a bit funny how you disappeare! 17:22:04 *disappeared 17:22:06 most other-frame commands worked like that 17:22:11 s/ed// 17:22:13 ais523: nope 17:22:16 but really i want it 17:22:18 oklopol, yes I had other things to do too 17:22:20 i want a buffer list on the bottom 17:22:21 and my koed on the top 17:22:24 oklopol, and I still don't get it. sigh 17:22:25 AnMaster: also, you could not have *known* it really, there aren't any fixed-point languages afaik 17:22:30 I don't use buffer-list, generally speaking 17:22:40 oklopol, ok.... 17:22:42 what do you use :| 17:22:42 you could do C-x o C-x b, I suppose 17:22:50 ehird_: go to buffer, tab tab 17:22:55 ais523: hee 17:22:58 to get a tabcomplete menu instead 17:23:05 that way it disappears when I go to the right buffer 17:23:57 ehird_: it's M-x buffer-window-other-window 17:24:08 ais523: whomg, ido is **awesome** 17:24:10 you need to bind a key to that to be able to use it without typing the whole thing 17:24:14 try it 17:24:18 AnMaster: third result is actually the fixed-point combinator 17:24:19 (require 'ido) (ido-mode t) 17:24:22 in my googles 17:24:25 http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/InteractivelyDoThings 17:24:45 oklopol, err 17:24:47 icicles is apparently more advanced though 17:24:48 1) doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/ACSSC.1995.540814 - 17:24:52 2) www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15201575 - 62k - 17:24:53 http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/Icicles 17:24:57 3) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_arithmetic - 38k - 17:25:01 oklopol, not it isn't 17:25:02 ... 17:25:24 4th result is 17:25:25 ais523: p.s. do you know how i can make emacs auto-save, even on close? 17:25:30 "okmij.org/ftp/Computation/fixed-point-combinators.html - 10k -" 17:25:31 i hate typing to save 17:25:31 AnMaster: my googles != your googles 17:25:40 oklopol, k, I use google.com 17:25:44 not .se or such 17:25:58 ehird_: it does that already 17:26:05 if you close without saving you get a #filename# file 17:26:31 it would be trivial, but stupid, to bind C-x C-c to a custom save-and-exit function 17:26:34 ais523: but it bugs you about it 17:26:39 interfaces should never ask to save 17:26:42 AnMaster: always third result in mine, but this is a bit irrelevant :) 17:26:51 interfaces should never ask to save 17:26:58 what a terrible idea, you'll end up inventing GNOME 17:27:04 ais523++ 17:27:13 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais524. 17:27:13 ais523: no -- Jef Raskin thinks the same thing, and he has more credentials than gnome designers 17:27:22 of course it needs to be system-wide 17:27:27 ais524, hahaha 17:27:27 you cna't just shoehorn it onto the current system 17:27:48 ehird_: many of the dialog boxes auto-save when you change options in Gnome, it's really annoying 17:27:54 ais524-- 17:27:56 -!- ais524 has changed nick to ais523. 17:28:21 that's not what i meant, anyway 17:28:22 ais523 *= 2 17:28:24 * AnMaster runs 17:28:26 also: undo 17:28:34 you are thinking about it inside the constraints of current systems anyway 17:28:39 ais523: i should prolly know this, but what's the 523 for? 17:28:50 oklopol: it's an arbitrary number 17:28:53 fundamentally, warnings and prompts are wrong 17:29:02 revisions and undos and easy access to them are superior 17:29:03 I think it's a sequence number, but I'm not sure who the other members in the sequence were 17:29:34 ehird_, Oh? so "are you sure you want to create a new file system on /dev/hda3? [YN]" 17:29:34 still, I like my 523 17:29:35 is wrong? 17:29:42 my Wikipedia bot is Bot523, for instance 17:29:49 ehird_, interesting opinion 17:30:08 AnMaster: jesus you don't listen 17:30:11 you are thinking about it inside the constraints of current systems anyway 17:30:12 AnMaster: I like the way that mke2fs requires -f to do something potentially stupid, and -ff to do something obviously very stupid 17:30:26 plz google Jef Raskin and read The Humane Interface 17:30:27 kthx 17:30:27 ais523, aye, a good way too 17:30:30 -ff is, I think, reserved for attempts to reformat drives which are mounted at the time 17:30:39 ais523: nice to see another (non ((arbitrary number) racist)), people usually want a "meaning" for every number they use, making many nice numbers feel really bad 17:31:00 i mean 17:31:03 they wanna be used 17:31:20 sorry, it's -F not -f, but point stands 17:31:38 ehird_, still how would you do "make new fs" bit then? 17:31:44 ehird_, without your prompts 17:31:46 AnMaster: ehird would have it undoable 17:31:53 AnMaster: Please read The Humane Interface. Thank you. 17:31:55 which is 'better' in some sense but impracticle 17:31:58 s/le/al/ 17:31:59 ais523, that is logically not possible 17:31:59 ais523: " 17:32:01 by definition 17:32:07 Please read THI. 17:32:31 ehird_: what about 'shred', and similar commands? The whole point of them is that they aren't undoable 17:32:35 they should still need confirmations 17:32:38 ehird_, how would you (mostly) securely wipe data? "are you sure you want to wipe your harddrive? [yN]" 17:32:43 ais523: Please read THI 17:32:43 if you make that undoable 17:32:44 well 17:32:48 then you are silly 17:32:52 gosh, input line history is lovely 17:32:55 AnMaster: Please read THI. 17:32:55 because the point is *NOT UNDOABLE* 17:33:02 ehird_, the POINT IS NOT UNDOABLE 17:33:03 Please read, THI. 17:33:05 for a secure wipe 17:33:08 Please, read THI. 17:33:11 ehird_, link to pdf 17:33:17 or whatever 17:33:23 AnMaster: Available in dead tree form from your nearest retailer. 17:33:33 ehird_: what about 'shred', and similar commands? The whole point of them is that they aren't undoable 17:33:35 a valid point 17:33:39 that ehird_ refuse to answer 17:33:55 Because it's already been answered, in book-form. 17:34:01 I guess he don't have a good answer 17:34:11 ehird_, and you won't make me buy any books 17:34:18 nor I suspect, ais523 17:34:47 s/r I/r, I/;s/t, a/t a/ 17:34:51 ehird_, and you won't make me buy any books 17:34:58 Then I guess you'll have to avoid offering your opinion. 17:35:04 Or at least not ask me questions about it. 17:35:15 ehird_, well ais523 raised a valid point 17:35:22 and you refuse to answer it 17:35:30 * AnMaster shrugs 17:35:56 ehird_, well I will refer you to Swedish only books in future, that are out of print since long 17:36:03 I hope you will be as happy with that 17:36:08 i wanna read that 17:36:14 ME WANNA 17:36:19 i'll torrent it now 17:36:20 ehird_, well I will refer you to Swedish only books in future, that are out of print since long 17:36:25 it's a good thing THI isn't out of print then 17:39:25 other things relating to user interface design: Good Easy 17:40:36 hmm 17:40:46 ais523: does emacs have *arbitary* depth of pushed/popped cursor positions? 17:40:48 like pushd/popd 17:41:03 ehird_: I think there's a limit, but it's pretty high and increasable 17:41:18 I'd find that a really useful feature but can never remember the keystrokes to use it 17:41:27 ais523: how do I use it then? 17:41:40 ehird_: I can't remember, search documentation for pop-global-mark 17:42:04 ais523: oh. so only two 17:42:06 mark/point 17:42:26 ehird_: the marks are saved on a stack 17:43:33 ais523: so how that i know how to pop (ctrl-x ctrl-spc) how do i push 17:43:56 ehird_: C-spc I think 17:44:33 ais523: that puts me into a click'ndrag mode 17:44:38 except with movement :) 17:45:00 ehird_: oh, it must have got mixed with transient mark, which activates if you press C-spc twice in a row 17:45:05 and my tests show it isn't C-spc anyway 17:45:13 ais523: evidently not 17:45:15 one c-spc does it 17:55:26 -!- olsner has joined. 18:07:59 -!- atsampson has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:08:11 -!- atsampson has joined. 18:13:10 ais523: random - here's a script i just wrote http://pastebin.ca/1000579 18:13:17 i call it toff for to-firefox, but i don't actually use firefox :-) 18:13:22 it works in a pipeline 18:13:25 as an end-point 18:13:29 pipes to your browser 18:13:39 much nicer than select + switch + middle button 18:13:54 ehird_: which browser do you use? 18:14:03 ais523: epiphany since its just a stock debian install 18:14:06 it's good 18:14:16 On this laptop, I've used w3m, Firefox (2/3), Konqueror, Epiphany, and telnet 18:14:30 ais523: anyway, it uses $BROWSER 18:14:31 so :) 18:14:37 so Firefox in my case 18:14:39 it doesn't rm the temp files it creates 18:14:41 but that's a feature 18:14:44 f5 :) 18:15:06 /tmp's wiped on boot anyway, or ought to be 18:15:31 hmm 18:15:33 toff isn't perfect 18:16:02 http://pastebin.ca/1000585 18:16:03 now it is 18:16:20 what did you change? 18:16:34 ais523: mktemp -t 18:16:35 instead of mktemp /tmp 18:53:10 -!- timotiis has joined. 19:05:42 ais523: so, the tv just rickroll'd me 19:05:47 no joke 19:05:50 ehird_: how? 19:06:01 ais523: advert for Rick Astley's Greatest Hits 19:06:06 ais523: I guess they misinterpreted the popularity 19:06:21 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:09:22 ais523: my pastebin needs a catchy name 19:09:22 how about 19:09:26 PASTERAMA2000 19:09:30 ehird_: maybe 19:09:37 what will the URL be? 19:09:44 ais523: pb.eso-std.org probably 19:09:48 i could call it Peanut Butter 19:09:56 i mean, peanut butter is kinda pastey 19:09:59 and PB.. 19:10:06 but peanutbutter is kind of a long name 19:10:10 i need an abbreviation 19:10:16 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 19:10:18 ehird_: call it Peanut Butter 19:10:21 but put pb in the URL 19:10:26 -!- jix has joined. 19:10:27 ais523: yes, but what about my code 19:10:37 ehird_: should be trivial to change 19:10:45 you're storing the name of the pastebin in a global, right? 19:11:49 ais523: I mean my namespace name 19:11:50 :< 19:12:00 ehird_: what namespace name? 19:12:08 you could just use pb for that too if it's an internal identifier 19:13:50 ais523: lib/peanutbutter/... 19:13:56 so not really that internal 19:13:57 and 19:13:59 the module name 19:14:01 PeanutButter 19:16:59 ais523: so not really internal 19:17:56 ehird_: pee butt? 19:18:34 oklopol: no 19:24:56 ais523: i guess i'll call it pb 19:30:10 ais523: prepared to brush up on your ruby to write a magical intercal highlighter? :-) 19:32:46 ais523: i'll take that as no 19:32:57 ehird_: I don't know ruby 19:33:07 ais523: which is hwy i said brush up 19:33:08 :-P 19:33:54 why wouldn't you write it in intercal? :) 19:34:08 sauxdado: heh 19:34:21 ais523: my directory tree is crazy 19:34:30 pastebin/lib/pb/controllers/paste.rb 19:36:21 what's the opposite of <3? 19:36:41 ais523: >=3 19:36:50 haha 19:36:55 (That was a lame joke) 19:37:13 well, I =3 langs insisting on a certain directory structure 19:37:36 ais523: ruby doesn't do that 19:37:38 i just do that 19:37:42 well 19:37:45 most of it is convention 19:37:49 pastebin/ is just my project dir 19:37:55 you have lib/ and two things in it: 19:38:02 project.rb and project/* 19:38:09 ais523: that's so that: require "project" works 19:38:14 generally project.rb requires most of the directory ones 19:38:31 now, in lib/pb/ i wanted to divide it into models and controllers (the view is out of lib/) 19:38:38 so lib/pb/{models,controllers} 19:38:43 so pastebin/lib/pb/controllers 19:38:46 then i just added a controller name to it 19:38:50 pastebin/lib/pb/controllers/paste.rb 19:40:31 ais523: I wouldn't need that if I didnt want it to be a regular ruby library. 19:40:36 I could have pastebin/controllers/paste.rb 19:40:44 Do you think I should do that? 19:40:55 ehird_: I have no idea how ruby libraries work anyway 19:41:05 ais523: Ruby has a load path. 19:41:09 require "x" looks for x.rb in the load path. 19:41:17 require "x/foo" looks for x/foo.rb in the load path. 19:41:26 ais523: You can abuse that to get a modular package structure, where x.rb loads most things 19:41:33 and you can cherry-pick the rest as "x/foo" 19:41:39 It's convention. 19:41:56 ais523: Now, because you have things like tests and such, you put that in lib/ (and because x.rb would get lost in a project root). 19:42:04 So I just subdivided it a bit further for MVC. 19:44:30 s/pee/pea ofc 19:44:36 what was i thinking 19:45:54 -!- Ricardo0 has joined. 19:46:00 -!- Ricardo0 has left (?). 19:56:36 ais523: http://pastebin.ca/1000720 19:56:37 that's pretty 19:57:18 does <<- mean "monadic bind"? 19:58:24 sauxdado: no 19:58:27 it's a heredoc 19:58:28 :-) 19:58:37 the - means that the ending delimiter can be indented 19:58:43 oh :) 19:58:47 sauxdado: and #{...} is string interpolation 19:58:52 so that defines a method for each of the http methods 19:58:56 which just returns an http method not allowed 19:59:31 so the thing between EOS is a string, even though it gets highlighted as ruby code 19:59:57 i guess that's a good feature if it's consistent 20:00:14 sauxdado: that's just a pastebin.ca bug 20:00:33 but regardless, i doubt doing the kind of stuff i did there is nice in other languages :-) 20:00:36 lisp, sure 20:00:41 but that's only compile-time, it must be mentioned 20:00:52 sauxdado: oh, and %w(a b c) is ["a","b","c"] 20:01:05 and sequences respond to .each, and they yield their values to the block 20:01:13 and @ denotes an instance variable 20:01:18 and now that i've said that, bye for about an hour 20:01:19 :-) 20:01:22 bye :) 20:14:51 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:14:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:15:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:19:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:24:29 http://206620.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Article/Index/article/Rule-110-2978217 // a T-shirt to contend with the awesomeness of "People from the Internet" 20:25:19 Is rule 110 the 2,3 machine? 20:25:40 Uh, no. 20:25:49 Rule 110 is an elementary cellular automata. 20:25:53 Oh. 20:27:35 -!- evincar has joined. 20:27:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:27:44 rule 110 is a lot simpler and nicer than the Turing machine 20:27:50 which has a nasty number in the 500000s 20:27:58 Hello all. 20:28:06 What am I missing? 20:28:10 http://206620.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Article/Index/article/Rule-110-2978217 // a T-shirt to contend with the awesomeness of "People from the Internet" 20:28:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:28:19 Slereah: 20:28:23 rule 110 is a lot simpler and nicer than the Turing machine 20:28:23 [20:29] which has a nasty number in the 500000s 20:29:04 Wikipedia sez that one of its difference with a TM is that it has no halting state. 20:29:08 ais523, what number? 20:29:08 But so do most TM D: 20:29:11 how do you define them 20:29:18 AnMaster: can't remember offhand, Wikipedia's bound to know 20:29:40 ais523: You, on the other hand, SHOULD have a T-shirt with the 2,3 machine (doing something) on it. And on the back, it should say "That's right ladies, he's available." 20:29:42 :P 20:29:49 GregorR: not quite that 20:29:58 I do have a supply of 2,3 T-shirts, though 20:30:09 Awesome X-D 20:30:13 But are you available? 20:30:15 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgnomic. 20:30:26 Slereah: depends on who's asking 20:30:34 I'll go buy flowers. 20:30:46 -!- Sgnomic has changed nick to Sgeo. 20:31:35 596440, if anyone's interested 20:31:50 but that's a different numbering scheme from rule 110, because it's a different type of automaton 20:33:58 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:43:28 So I had another language idea, which I'm going to post on the wiki once the spec is complete. 20:43:31 You guys are going to love this. 20:44:35 evincar: looking forward to it 20:45:51 ais523: If all other statements are arithmetic or I/O operations, then the jump operation must be conditional for Turing completeness, correct? 20:46:22 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:46:28 evincar: if you only have one control-flow command, it has to be conditional on /something/ for TCness 20:46:55 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:46:57 That's what I though. 20:47:02 thought* 20:48:43 This is beyond ridiculous. 20:48:54 This is beyond *Chef* ridiculous. 20:49:22 evincar: unless the other statements are conditional on something instead 20:49:28 but then they're flow-control in disguise 20:49:43 such as Fractran, for instance 20:49:47 No, they're all variable-manipulation. 20:49:55 evincar: Fractran is just variable-manipulation 20:50:03 but conditional on whether the result's an integer or not 20:50:07 that's enough for TCness 20:50:20 Which is badass in itself. 20:50:33 -!- timotiis_ has joined. 20:53:05 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 20:56:56 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523|busy. 21:01:52 -!- RedDak has joined. 21:02:33 -!- timotiis has quit (Success). 21:05:22 -!- Dagide has joined. 21:13:42 -!- timotiis has joined. 21:19:58 -!- timotiis_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 21:22:29 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:31:47 -!- Iskr has quit ("Leaving"). 21:33:48 -!- ais523|busy has changed nick to ais523. 21:36:53 ais523: Done. 21:36:55 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Alchemy 21:37:00 ...ish. 21:38:16 you've double-pasted parts of it 21:38:35 Crap! 21:39:17 oh, and I'll have to make my Alchemy interps, if I ever write any, suid nobody, so they can't delete my files 21:40:10 Heh. 21:40:20 You better. 21:41:01 It's not impossible, but it is mildly ridiculous. 21:43:48 Hmm... now how should I cat this... 21:49:57 so, guys, which calculator should i get? 21:50:01 hp-48sx/gx, hp-12/15/16, or hp-18/28 21:56:19 Hard to find info on these. 21:56:31 I like the first. 22:01:49 so do i 22:01:52 but the others are classic 22:09:06 -!- Corun has changed nick to Rucon. 22:09:35 who here was implementing MIPS in JavaScript? 22:09:50 According to Slashdot, there's now a JavaScript version of parts of the Java Virtual Machine 22:11:22 That's so very pointful. 22:11:29 I agree 22:11:44 JavaScript > Java 22:12:18 It makes so much more sense. 22:12:22 And it doesn't even try as hard. ^_^ 22:12:29 -!- Rucon has changed nick to IceRhymers. 22:12:50 back 22:12:51 Of course, I've had bad experiences with Java. 22:12:55 sauxdado: btw, it's ruby code 22:13:25 Hey, ehird_. I posted a new lang for you to ogle. 22:13:48 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Alchemy 22:14:18 who here was implementing MIPS in JavaScript? 22:14:19 GregorR: 22:14:26 he's still doing it 22:14:42 JavaScript > Java <-- truth. JavaScript has first-class closures, a good prototype-based object system, ... 22:14:47 It's just that browser JS impls suck 22:14:47 :) 22:14:50 ehird_: yes, I know 22:14:55 and browser JS impls are getting better 22:14:58 Definitely. 22:15:01 Konqueror's is great, for instance 22:15:05 and Firefox's is now at least usable 22:15:20 How do you all feel about ActionScript? 22:15:24 I'm torn. 22:15:39 On the one hand, it's accessible, fairly simple, Javascriptlike... 22:15:44 On the other... 22:15:47 Well, ew. 22:15:49 Just ew. 22:16:07 ehird_: I would argue that JavaScript's syntax (for prototypes in particular) is unfortunate. 22:16:11 But I like the language otherwise. 22:16:31 ehird_: I would argue that JavaScript's syntax (for prototypes in particular) is unfortunate. <-- I would argue that Plof's syntax, for conditionals in particular, SUCKS! 22:16:40 haha 22:16:45 evincar: ActionScript is a derivative of ECMAScript. 22:16:50 evincar: So it IS javascript. 22:16:59 sauxdado: seriously -- if(x, {...}, {...}) 22:17:02 who wants to write that 22:17:26 if(a > b, ( printf("Oh my god, he used a parenthesis!"); ), else, ( printf("Oh, it uses 'else', so ehird_ is of course wrong!") )); 22:17:37 ehird_: In effect, yes. But they've welded on some features that don't quite gel. 22:18:01 -!- IceRhymers has changed nick to Corun. 22:18:32 GregorR: that's not plof2 22:18:44 ehird_: No, it's Plof3. I abandoned Plof2 for a reason. 22:20:18 GregorR: http://pastebin.ca/1000949 22:20:21 QED 22:20:48 Soooo, you declare it to be true, therefore it's true? :P 22:21:00 My 'if' is actually a function, your 'if' is a language intrinsic. Language intrinsics suck. QED. 22:21:08 GregorR: isn't that how esoteria works? ^_^ 22:21:33 "What I say goes because I said so and because it's awesome." 22:21:59 conditionals suck. 22:22:08 TURING COMPLETENESS IS FOR FAGS 22:23:23 GregorR! How dare you! 22:23:34 Unless you're referring to Turing's sexuality, of course. 22:23:39 In which case, have at it. 22:24:07 Well, Church was no fag! 22:24:08 I avoid writing non-tc languages if I can help it, though. 22:24:12 wow, the wiki is unusually active at the moment 22:24:38 My 'if' is actually a function, your 'if' is a language intrinsic. Language intrinsics suck. QED. 22:24:39 * GregorR begins writing Church-Turing slash fiction. 22:24:40 (if x y z) 22:24:48 Non-ugly, non-instrinsic. 22:25:05 Soooooo, (if x y z) good, if(x, y, z) bad? 22:25:18 I believe this comes down to something like "UNRECOGNIZED SYNTAX ABORT ABORT ABORT" 22:25:25 GregorR: (if x y z) good, if(x, (y), else, (z)) bad, especially when you write the latter indented C-style 22:25:34 DO statement WHILE statement 22:25:36 c style indentation only works when you have C-style or ALGOL-style syntax 22:25:38 that can be an IF sometimes 22:25:40 otherwise it's ugly 22:25:42 but normally it's a lot weirder 22:25:59 Yo. 22:26:10 hi pikhq 22:27:28 C is pretty special 22:27:35 8-space tab stops actually make sense in C 22:27:41 sauxdado: not the way I write it 22:27:47 when using an 80-char-wide screen 22:27:50 I prefer 2-space tabs 22:28:10 ais523: use hard tabs 22:28:12 then you can choose 22:28:13 :-) 22:29:03 I use the tab character and indicate in comments that I use 4-space tabs. 22:29:16 People should change their editors accordingly if they know what's good for them. 22:29:52 k&r style is 8-space tabs, and it looks nice. 22:30:00 i'm not saying other styles are not possible 22:30:11 but in many other languages, 8-space tabs wouldn't make any sense at all. 22:30:19 while in C they can work 22:30:52 ais523: Do you do GNU stlye? :p 22:31:07 gnu style is so funny 22:31:09 pikhq: Please die. In a fire. 22:31:10 pikhq: no 22:31:10 Style, even. 22:31:28 Occasionally, I use it, but mostly, I prefer K&R style. 22:31:34 I line up braces to the left of the block that they contain, level with the block that contains them 22:31:39 and braces have their own lines 22:31:50 what i don't understand about gnu style is how could somebody even come up with it. 22:32:17 sauxdado: it does make it easy to identify Emacs users, though 22:32:22 RMS' brain was Lisp-tinged. 22:32:35 one of my lecturers was really impresseed when I looked at their slide and said "Hey, you use Emacs, don't you?" 22:32:36 gnu style doesn't really look lispy 22:32:38 And his Lisp apparently involved a horrid style, even then. 22:32:42 lisp is not gratuitously baroque 22:32:58 ais523: Emacs' automatic formatting can be set to K&R style. 22:33:11 pikhq: GNU is the default. 22:33:14 pikhq: I set its autoformat to BSD-style 22:33:15 GNU = Emacs is a good guess. 22:33:17 but it's GNU by defualt 22:33:22 * pikhq nods 22:33:22 Nobody would code GNU style using vi! 22:33:25 I hope 22:33:36 It's possible. 22:33:44 Probably harder to pull off. 22:33:57 You'd be better off just running it through format. 22:34:02 ehird_: GNU probably code GNU style using vi, they can't all be Emacs users 22:34:17 ais523: ewww 22:34:23 pikhq: Or killing yourself. 22:34:54 ehird_: You know, Gregor's if(x, y, else, z) is just the natural result of doing C-esque syntax with everything as a function. ;) 22:35:25 pikhq: It's true. 22:35:25 pikhq: Yeah - it doesn't fit C-esque syntax. 22:35:32 It's fugly. 22:35:41 ehird: Play nice. 22:35:46 (and a hell of a lot better than what he had Plof 1 doing. if(x, y); else(z); ? What the fuck where you thinking, Gregor!?! :p) 22:36:25 IIRC, I'm one of two people to know Plof 1. :p 22:36:29 I wrote a (non-eso) lang a while back that treated if, else, and related constructs as operators, which functioned similarly. 22:36:29 pikhq: was that .. in a global stack or something 22:36:52 I laughed out load at pikhq's last-but-one sentence 22:36:59 and got a funny look from the person sitting next to me 22:37:03 s/load/loud/ 22:37:06 if(x){...} returns true if (x) is true, and (x) else {...} executes ... if x is false, so it all works out. 22:37:11 ehird_: Global variable. That changed about as soon as I got remotely involved with std.plof. 22:37:44 -!- Dagide has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:38:20 pikhq: nested if/elses? it mustve been a stack. 22:38:57 I don't remember the exact design, just that it was horrid. 22:39:44 evincar: I don't think the idea of destructive action on error is yours, BTW 22:39:53 And the version(x as string, y as function) intrinsic? Painful. 22:39:55 BAK required program files to have a .BAK extension, presumably to confuse DOS 22:40:13 and in Homespring dot-space-dot and space-dot-space are defined to cause temporal paradoxes 22:40:21 ais523: It's mine. I just might not be the first to do come up with it. 22:40:31 evincar: I didn't word that properly 22:40:31 s/do come/come/ 22:40:35 (that equals, IIRC, Plof 2's if(version[x], y). Is that feature in Plof 3 yet?) 22:40:39 DO COME FROM (1) 22:40:48 ais523: Ha! 22:41:51 ais523: I just need to come up with a list of standard elements. 22:42:07 And maybe I should make them water-soluble only if their substance number is odd... 22:42:17 pikhq: No, not yet, need hashes first. 22:42:24 That would be far less transparent than Aqua. 22:42:50 GregorR: I'll have time this summer. 22:43:15 pikhq: You're one of two people who knows Plof 1? Who's the other? ;) 22:43:23 You. 22:43:31 At least, I *assume* you know it. 22:43:33 That was what we here on Earth call a joke X_X 22:43:36 I mean, you *did* design it. 22:43:46 Sorry; I'm slightly tired still. 22:43:53 Let my brain get caught up. 22:44:13 * pikhq imagines his brain running around without me 22:46:07 http://cgi.ebay.com/Hewlett-Packard-HP-48gx-Graphic-Calculator_W0QQitemZ320243046337QQcmdZViewItem 22:46:14 only $41 with 4 hours left... 22:46:49 bsmntbombdood: go for it 22:46:53 we expect RPL bf interps 22:47:12 :D 22:47:19 i'm afraid it'll just be a waste of money 22:47:57 I expect, at the very least, a Brainfuck interpreter compiled for it. 22:48:06 And hope for an RPL interpreter, instead. ;) 22:48:18 (mmm. . . Reverse Polish Lisp. . .) 22:48:25 i've never coded any rpl 22:49:02 Shame. 22:49:29 indeed! 22:49:39 http://cgi.ebay.com/Hewlett-Packard-HP-12c-Scientific-Calculator-gold_W0QQitemZ370044620652QQcmdZViewItem 22:49:42 that's a good price too 23:00:09 Do any of you ever feel like the eso community is always waiting for the next big thing? 23:00:31 evincar: not always 23:00:31 Sometimes I think that it may never come, sometimes I think I'll be the one to bring it. 23:00:40 the rest of the time I think the next big thing is coming right now 23:01:52 Heh. 23:02:01 It really feels that way when you've got a good idea. 23:02:16 I'm excited about several of my langs 23:02:26 three of which show worrying signs of being practical 23:02:35 even more worryingly, one of them is INTERCAL 23:02:40 Heh. 23:02:49 What's worrying is Gregor working on any serious project. :p 23:03:04 I'm sorry, but after seeing ORK and Glass, the idea scares me. :p 23:03:18 pikhq: Ha. Polite ribbing borders on abuse. 23:03:26 ais523: Practical langauges aren't bad. 23:03:30 languages* 23:03:38 evincar: I feel justified in this. 23:03:48 (having done some work on said serious projects with him. :p) 23:03:49 * ais523 actually likes Glass 23:06:22 * evincar dislikes the usage of magic classnames. 23:06:51 Magic classnames? 23:06:56 The only place that's acceptable is in a language like perl, where *everything* is intentionally automagical. 23:07:08 As in: Enchantment Creature -- Elemental? 23:07:10 :p 23:07:12 Class O is for output... 23:07:18 Class I is for input... 23:07:32 It always seems tacked-on whenever I see that in an eso lang. 23:08:05 * evincar high-fives pikhq for the MTG reference. 23:08:20 Speaking of which. . . 23:08:26 I have fairly insane card ideas. 23:09:03 Can't trump my Sheep Deck. 23:09:36 Instant Land - Forest (may be played whenever you could play an instant, counts towards the number of lands you may play per turn, has "T: Add G to your mana pool." when on the stack, and has a converted mana cost of 0.) Target Forest permanent becomes a 2/2 Treefolk creature until end of turn. 23:09:48 Shepherd (2/2 for 2+green): Tap green, put a 0/1 sheep token into play. 23:10:00 hey, I helped to work on Magic: the Esolang 23:10:12 and I thought sheepizing things was blue 23:10:17 as in Ovinise, for instance 23:10:20 Generally, yes. 23:10:28 But the Sheep Deck is green. 23:10:31 White also gets that mechanic from time to time. 23:10:33 Because I said so. 23:10:40 ^_^ 23:10:44 You could really make it any colour. 23:10:44 pikhq: not on lands, though 23:10:48 (most recently in Shadowmoor, courtesy of hybrid) 23:10:48 only generating the tokens 23:11:23 Oh. 23:11:24 Graze: Tap X green, all sheep get +X/+X until end of turn. 23:11:30 You're discussing my Instant Land idea? 23:11:51 evincar: For bombs, add in some changelings. 23:12:00 pikhq: the rules say that you can't play lands in the opponent's turn even if they somehow get flash 23:12:10 but you can flash them in your own turn 23:12:15 ais523: Obviously, the rules would need to be changed for said insanity. 23:12:27 Heh. 23:12:36 I've been playing with a rather interesting rule change lately. 23:12:39 there's the land-morph-played-as-creature+Delay scenario, for instance 23:12:48 * pikhq gets a kick out of "has T: Add G to your mana pool when on the stack." 23:13:06 To prevent mana screw, all cards can be played as basic land. 23:13:11 oh, and when doing Unhinged they realised there were no rules against tapping cards in libraries 23:13:19 just no card allowed you to do that 23:13:30 Same applies to the stack and your graveyard. 23:13:33 And possibly your hand. 23:13:41 ais523: I can just see a deck with a random sideways card. 23:13:52 they made Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil a real card! 23:14:01 it was in Coldsnap, with a more sensible name 23:14:20 They also redid The Cheese Stands Alone. 23:14:22 BTW, the Magic: the Esolang example on the wiki's still stuck back in Ravnica 23:14:33 Shameful. 23:14:42 pikhq: maybe write a second program? 23:14:48 Hmm. 23:14:53 I was pretty pleased when I put the example program up, and someone else actually bugfixed it 23:15:06 it means someone took the time to understand how it worked 23:15:39 (which must obey usual deckbuilding rules, except that a deck may end with an infinite amount of basic land). 23:15:56 There's no reason in the Comprehensive Ruleset for the deck to not end with an infinite amount of basic land. 23:16:15 pikhq: there is, it says the deck has to be small enough to be reasonably shufflable 23:17:30 I just found a lang that I made three years ago! 23:17:31 And "reasonably shufflable" does not apply when you assume a Turing machine. 23:17:47 anyway, you get to order M:tE decks before you start 23:17:51 and don't have to shuffle them 23:17:54 evincar: is it any good? 23:18:15 BTW, it's easy to make an infinite loop using that. 23:18:18 Magic is like a nomic. 23:18:36 Particularly with the recent untap mechanic. 23:18:38 Kind of. The most esoteric aspects of it are that the syntax can be changed... 23:19:06 ...and arguments to functions are given via global variables, because there's no other argument-passing mechanism. 23:19:26 There's a standard library from which you can import and create aliases. 23:19:28 evincar: I meant the card game 23:19:33 that's not very esoteric 23:19:38 (arguments via global variables) 23:19:44 that's how Basic worked 23:19:46 No, not very. 23:19:50 2 Forest, 1 Earthcraft, 1 Fertile Ground, 1 Pili-Pala. 23:19:52 The meaning of each program line is given by a sigil. 23:19:58 One infinite loop: check. 23:20:02 (basic with gosub) 23:20:14 ehird_: You mean the sheep deck? 23:20:19 evincar: No. 23:20:23 Just Magic 23:20:47 (Earthcraft: Tap 1 creature you control: untap 1 land you control. Pila-Pala: 2, Q: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.) 23:21:16 Understanding Breakdown Explosion! 23:21:19 I don't play Magic. :P 23:21:25 (Q is the untap symbol.) 23:21:26 Oh. 23:21:32 Yeah, it's pretty fun. 23:21:49 evincar: does that generate infinite mana? 23:21:54 only with a double land, it seems 23:22:06 * ais523 hasn't played M:tG recently 23:22:11 I own no card more recent than Lorwyn 23:22:16 so I didn't stop that long ago 23:22:22 I left when my local Magic group put up prices 23:22:40 Oh, I forgot. Graze is an instant. 23:23:03 ais523: Find a different group, have fun with Shadowmoor. 23:23:04 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:23:08 Release is on the 2nd. 23:24:12 I forget the name of my favourite Sheep card. It's something like "Sheep Stampede". Has trample, gets +1/+1 for each sheep token you control. 23:24:45 * ehird_ has never ever played mtg 23:24:46 Sounds like an Elf. 23:27:33 what to the people here think of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burn, by the way 23:27:39 I found it lying around on my hard-disk 23:27:55 if anyone can explain it to me, pieced together with my fragments of memory of what it did, I'd be grateful 23:30:14 No details at all? 23:31:00 ais523: Turtles 23:31:36 Slereah: the program was tiled across 2D space 23:31:37 ais523: Hmm 23:31:42 and one of the pixels was changed to start it off 23:31:51 also, all changes to the memory were irreversible 23:31:52 1. Ignore program 2. Run Rule 110 23:31:57 Right? 23:31:59 no pixel could ever return to a previous state 23:32:03 and it wasn't a cheat lang 23:32:09 :) 23:32:55 also, it was a cellular automaton in that each pixel only depended on its own state and that of its neighbours 23:32:58 I think 4-neighbours 23:33:16 and all pixels changed simultaneously in steps, cellular-automaton style 23:33:19 -!- evincar has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"). 23:34:58 ais523: And fluggamaras 23:35:30 ehird_: ? 23:35:39 ais523: strue 23:37:41 -!- ais523 has quit ("TypoQ ecxeeded"). 23:38:38 How was the input done? 23:44:27 Slereah: hes gone 23:44:39 sauxdado: What's with the nick? 23:45:02 ehird_: it's a cool esperanto word. I'm learning esperanto. 23:45:47 sauxdado: What does it mean? 23:46:44 it means saudade, which is a portuguese word. 23:47:02 Well, now I have a clue to pronounce it. 23:47:12 sauxdado: what does saudade mean 23:47:20 Oh, I know that one! 23:47:26 Nu... 23:47:32 Vi parolas Esperanton... 23:47:44 pikhq: WHUT DOES SAUXDADO MEAN 23:47:46 BTICH! 23:47:48 ehird_: Not a clue. 23:47:55 >:| 23:47:56 * pikhq hits lernu 23:48:23 Nostalgia. 23:48:40 ehird_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade 23:48:45 Sort of. 23:49:31 -!- timotiis has quit (Connection timed out). 23:50:10 sauxdado: Depressing! 23:52:09 it's a good emotion and a good word. 23:55:01 pikhq: mi eklernis kaj nur scias kelkajn vortojn