< 1209515321 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1209519962 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209521478 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1209522729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209528408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1209528409 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209528445 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-48-135.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209530118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209530217 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-226-168.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1209530920 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209531982 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1209532882 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209538828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1209542399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1209542400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1209545820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge now supports = btw < 1209545852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks it is time for a new release very soon, though need to test a few things that mycology doesn't first
< 1209545888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and ccbi got a fault in it's = instruction < 1209545893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pushes wrong return code < 1209545912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/vO2eqx94.html < 1209545937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically that just shows that it uses the raw return value of system() rather than extracting the exit code < 1209545962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retval = WEXITSTATUS(system(command)); < 1209545971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think WEXITSTATUS may be a macro actually < 1209545988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case: it pushes 512 instead of 2 as exit code for the test program on my system < 1209546333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nitpickery: one should actually first test with WIFEXITED(x) that the process has terminated normally (and not died to an uncaught signal or something), since otherwise the WEXITSTATUS value might be anything. < 1209546429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm afraid that the funge98 standard may be a bit unclear in fact: < 1209546434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After execution, a failure value is pushed onto the stack. If this value is zero, everything went as expected. If the value is non-zero, it may be the return-code of the program that was executed; at any rate it means that the attempt to execute the program, or the program itself, did not succeed." < 1209546458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is possible that ccbi does not break the standard < 1209546472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it is not logical the way it does it < 1209546489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but probably yeah < 1209546510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway he got an issue, as ccbi is in D, and WIFEXITED and such are defined as macros in the system headers < 1209546518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure he could use them in his program then < 1209546536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge can use them, as it is C < 1209547543 0 :Iskr!n=i@host142-20-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1209547955 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209548142 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1209550131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the spec says only that it's "Equivalent to C-language system() call behaviour". the return value of system() is implementation-defined so I'd argue that processing it with WEXITSTATUS is a violation of the standard: such processing should be done by the befunge, not the interpreter < 1209550168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is not possible for the funge to do that, as it can't know the definition of WEXITSTATUS < 1209550186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason for the macro is that the exact format of the return value may differ between different systems < 1209550210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it states: "If the value is non-zero, it may be the return-code of the program that was executed; at any rate it means that the attempt to execute the program, or the program itself, did not succeed." < 1209550218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return code implies WEXITSTATUS I think? < 1209550245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _may be_ < 1209550258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing is implementation defined < 1209550266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the interpreter should just pass such things through < 1209550278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'd argue that processing it with WEXITSTATUS is a violation of the standard" < 1209550281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1209550292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the definition of WEXITSTATUS vary between Posix systems? < 1209550320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think it can < 1209550331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your interpreter has to be recompiled for each system < 1209550341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the macro is there to hide exactly what bits are used < 1209550360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed, but it has anyway as WIFEXITED could also vary in the same way < 1209550369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is needed by the PERL fingerprint < 1209550370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would you need WIFEXITED < 1209550379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and that is needed by the PERL fingerprint < 1209550388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for < 1209550468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of issues with the pipes that happened otherwise < 1209550497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1209550505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when things went wrong in my tests < 1209550539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if the instruction fails to execute, it would reverse, logically < 1209550546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is WEXITSTATUS needed, why can't system() return the return code directly < 1209550558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because it returns more data < 1209550562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in different bits < 1209550571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bits are return code, other are not < 1209550590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The value returned is -1 on error (e.g. fork(2) failed), and the return status of the command otherwise. This latter return status is in the format < 1209550590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : specified in wait(2). Thus, the exit code of the command will be WEXITSTATUS(status). In case /bin/sh could not be executed, the exit status will be < 1209550590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that of a command that does exit(127). < 1209550596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so see man 2 wait < 1209550624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIFEXITED, WIFSIGNALED, and so on < 1209550631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WIFEXITED isn't specified... great < 1209550640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1209550651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in /usr/include/sys/wait.h < 1209550657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not specified in the standard < 1209550661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or probably, on linux, some file included by that < 1209550661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's implementation defined as usual < 1209550670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err, it is defined as "should exist" in POSIX < 1209550672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" returns true if the child terminated normally" < 1209550677 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1209550682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't say what it /does/ < 1209550683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1209550693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it take the top bit, check for x & 0xf != 0, or what < 1209550701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, on linux it checks if a certain bit is high < 1209550707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it was top bit < 1209550708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not helpful < 1209550712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's only on linux < 1209550723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and liable to change from one kernel version to the next < 1209550725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/stdlib.h:# define WEXITSTATUS(status) __WEXITSTATUS(__WAIT_INT(status)) < 1209550726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/bits/waitstatus.h:#define __WEXITSTATUS(status) (((status) & 0xff00) >> 8) < 1209550735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks on freebsd
< 1209550745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may or may not be the same, I don't care < 1209550755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact is that the standard doesn't say what they should be and hence one can't rely on it < 1209550757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h:#define WEXITSTATUS(x) (_W_INT(x) >> 8) < 1209550762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems different yeah :D < 1209550778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if _W_INT is & 0xff00 then they're the same < 1209550784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like said it doesn't really matter < 1209550807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends on __BSD_VISIBLE < 1209550817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h-#if __BSD_VISIBLE < 1209550817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h:#define _W_INT(w) (*(int *)&(w)) /* Convert union wait to int. */ < 1209550818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h-#else < 1209550821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h:#define _W_INT(i) (i) < 1209550822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/sys/wait.h-#endif < 1209550827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so, what if the befunge program wants to know about this metadata < 1209550831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some irrelevant stuff cut out < 1209550842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. whether it exited normally or not (WIFEXITED) < 1209550863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, the standard doesn't say that < 1209550870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor can it parse it reasonably < 1209550884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard says "system() call behaviour" < 1209550890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on linux the definition is quite spread out over lots of file < 1209550892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't suggest any post-processing of the return value < 1209550900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the value is non-zero, it may be the return-code of the program that was executed; at any rate it means that the attempt to execute the program, or the program itself, did not succeed." < 1209550908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which *DOES* suggest post-processing < 1209550916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1209550923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just means that it can return whatever it wants < 1209550926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it may be the return-code" < 1209550926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as zero means success < 1209550960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well 0 might not mean success on the "raw" value I think, though not sure. < 1209550969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if posix says it has to mean that < 1209550976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 says it has to mean that < 1209551028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or no, darn < 1209551174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 doesn't seem to say anything about return value in case of non-null string < 1209551180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1209551302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1209551344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 3p wait seems to say that it indeed shall be 0 "if and only if the status returned is from a terminated child process that terminated by one of the following means: < 1209551348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1. The process returned 0 from main(). < 1209551350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2. The process called _exit() or exit() with a status argument of 0. < 1209551353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3. The process was terminated because the last thread in the process terminated. < 1209551354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1209551367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so seems like that yeah < 1209551377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, great < 1209551387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IMO I'm good in terms of the standard < 1209551389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in any case I'd argue that extracting return code is a valid way to interpret the standard < 1209551390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system() returns what wait reports as the return value of the process, which will be the return code, error state, or some combination thereof. < 1209551392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1209551400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you < 1209551433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yeah, except return code on linux at least is not stored in the least significant byte < 1209551433 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The raw return code from system() could encode (for example) both a return code of '1' and the fact that that return was caused by a signal. < 1209551441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209551460 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In `man wait` there's a macro for extracting it regardless of OS. < 1209551463 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you're using C) < 1209551469 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1209551472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both !Befunge and FBBI push the result of system() directly. < 1209551476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, read the convo, I do use it < 1209551491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I push it directly if it didn't exit normally < 1209551496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus trying to be helpful < 1209551498 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pffft, I don't read conversations! < 1209551502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (WIFEXITED(retval)) { < 1209551502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : StackPush(ip->stack, (FUNGEDATATYPE)WEXITSTATUS(retval)); < 1209551502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } else { < 1209551502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : StackPush(ip->stack, (FUNGEDATATYPE)retval); < 1209551502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1209551524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, FBBI has a nice buffer overflow vulnerability too < 1209551525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char s[256]; < 1209551525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ip_pop_string(i, s); < 1209551525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ip_push(i, system(s)); < 1209551533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1209551569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!Befunge on the other hand pushes -2 if it runs out of buffer space :-) < 1209551572 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1209551577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: shaddup. < 1209551581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I malloc my string, or if gc is in use, I'm even smarter, doing a special boehm-gc specific string that can be dynamically grown and appended to in a fast way < 1209551647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I push -2 on empty string popped, as even if it doesn't cause any harm with system(), the man page doesn't clearly state so as far as I can see < 1209551650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209551653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system("") < 1209551677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I want to prevent segfaults and similar < 1209551688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system(NULL) is perfectly valid. < 1209551695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209551697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NULL != "" < 1209551723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and popping on empty stack results in a string like: "\0" < 1209551724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all < 1209551729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single \0 that is < 1209551750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty string in other words < 1209551763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at least that is how I think it shall be interpreted (the standard that is) < 1209551775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system("") returns 0 here < 1209551792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but is that guaranteed? < 1209551809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If string is a NULL pointer, system() will return non-zero if the command < 1209551810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : interpreter sh(1) is available, and zero if it is not. < 1209551823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not guaranteed < 1209551825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a null pointer, not a null string < 1209551829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "" < 1209551838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what may happen on empty string then? < 1209551843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it is guaranteed under POSIX systems, since there's quite a lot said about how "sh" must behave. < 1209551849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system() executes a command specified in command by calling /bin/sh -c command, and returns after the command has been completed. < 1209551855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1209551863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I would argue that pressing enter in your shell is not an error. ;-) < 1209551873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209551876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing: < 1209551878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If command is a null pointer, system() shall return non-zero to indicate that a command processor is available, or zero if none is available. The sys- < 1209551878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tem() function shall always return non-zero when command is NULL. < 1209551904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to contradict itself < 1209551911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man 3p system on linux < 1209551915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where'd you get that? < 1209551922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 3p system < 1209551924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said :) < 1209551927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 3 system < 1209551928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f the value of command is NULL, system() returns non-zero if the shell is available, and zero if not. < 1209551931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209551932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all it says here < 1209551934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3p is POSIX < 1209551936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is Linux < 1209551940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3p doesn't exist here < 1209551947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is 3p is basically cut and paste from POSIX < 1209551949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in a POSIX system there always is a shell. :p < 1209551960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1209551964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ qfile /usr/share/man/man3p/system.3p.bz2 < 1209551964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys-apps/man-pages (/usr/share/man/man3p/system.3p.bz2) < 1209551965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you have it < 1209551991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX specifies that /bin/sh must exist, hence system() can't claim that none do < 1209552047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. it can... sometimes... as chroot() is not POSIX, thus a chroot could lack /bin/sh < 1209552056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man 3 system < 1209552088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroot is not POSIX, so you're not running a POSIX system in that case. < 1209552119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be, a POSIX with extensions, but while inside the chroot, indeed may not be POSIX < 1209552144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In versions of glibc before 2.1.3, the check for the availability of /bin/sh was not actually performed if command was NULL; instead it was always assumed < 1209552144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to be available, and system() always returned 1 in this case. Since glibc 2.1.3, this check is performed because, even though POSIX.1-2001 requires a < 1209552144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : conforming implementation to provide a shell, that shell may not be available or executable if the calling program has previously called chroot(2) (which is not specified by POSIX.1-2001). < 1209552185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's written in that confusing-looking way because the first phrase is directly from the ISO C standard, and that other line about always returning non-zero is "extension to the ISO C standard" addendum-thing. < 1209552204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1209552218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 45597 of 1003.1-2001, "System Interfaces", Issue 6. < 1209557451 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209557865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emergency! Failed to allocate enough memory for new stack items: No such file or directory < 1209557866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1209557892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: S pushed 65887 < 1209557892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emergency! Failed to allocate enough memory for new stack items: No such file or directory < 1209557892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: T after M pushed 455 < 1209557894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aborted < 1209557896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1209557901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: malloc doesn't always set errno < 1209557905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1209557907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you may have an old errno value lying around somewhere < 1209557913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try setting errno to 0 first < 1209557929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... wtf is eating all memory < 1209557931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'll get 'Success' as the error message if it wasn't set for some reason < 1209557940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which OS are you on? < 1209557942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course... firefox < 1209557944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, linux < 1209557965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's strange, because normally Linux won't return 0 from malloc on small allocations no matter how hard you try < 1209557965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox eats *MORE* memory than vmware < 1209557967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing eh < 1209557970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: that's strange, because normally Linux won't return 0 from malloc on small allocations no matter how hard you try < 1209557971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the OOM-killer instead < 1209557977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disabled the overcommit crap < 1209557981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good < 1209557990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it cause more trouble than it solves < 1209557997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I've had memory problems with Firefox too just now < 1209558002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like init getting killed, which is PLAIN STUPID < 1209558006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering why all my applications had become slow < 1209558007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or syslog < 1209558023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked top, and 5 of them were in disk-access blocks < 1209558025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only page open was funge specs < 1209558040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION switches to Epiphany
< 1209558044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only had 4 tabs open... < 1209558055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION switches to konq
< 1209558071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Konqueror as well < 1209558083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I've had all 3 web browsers open at once before < 1209558088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm firefox was using 500 MB, vmware 300 MB, X 150 MB(!) < 1209558103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ about 100 more swapped out < 1209558104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1209558107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, X goes crazy sometimes and eats all my CPU cycles for a few minutes < 1209558116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cpu < 1209558118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory < 1209558126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're having different problems with it... < 1209558140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll have to fix Firefox 3's memory usage before its final release, though, I think < 1209558140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but X was started almost 2 weeks ago < 1209558144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does leak memory < 1209558146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1209558151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use firefox 2 < 1209558152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 3 < 1209558152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I restart X several times a day < 1209558156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how I use my laptop < 1209558162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't on most of the time < 1209558169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well this is a desktop < 1209558182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes sense for it to stay on for longer < 1209558188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209558229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I'd forgotten just how slow Firefox was < 1209558251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only reason I use firefox is adblock extension really < 1209558261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it has became like IE was < 1209558268 0 :helios24!n=helios@pD955D49B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209558269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"page best viewed in firefox" bleh < 1209558276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just waiting for that to happen < 1209558284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"page best viewed in standards-compliant browsers", it should say < 1209558288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's all of them but IE < 1209558294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1209558297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209558309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx/w3m and such are not standards-compliant for everything I think < 1209558309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them but IE < 1209558330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen "page best viewed in w3m" anywhere < 1209558340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209558353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but point is, it can't fully support css < 1209558356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like font family < 1209558382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports HTML < 1209558391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be enough < 1209558392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is more than one standard to comply with < 1209558399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think w3m supports HTML but not CSS < 1209558402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about links or lynx? < 1209558408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as long as it doesn't claim to support CSS, it's standards-compliant < 1209558413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links can do some css at least < 1209558417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all but some < 1209558424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1209558496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that w3m is in the list of pager applications on their system, along with more and less
< 1209558540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, is Slashdot down for everyone, or just me? < 1209558547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python apps seem to eat a lot of ram too < 1209558567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supybot for example eats around 25 MB, in a stripped down install < 1209558574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just a few modules loaded < 1209558601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it depends on the version of Python and/or the app < 1209558603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emerge around 50 MB, when waiting for y/n on emerge -avDuN world < 1209558608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, python 2.4 < 1209558612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.something < 1209558619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've run Python on an embedded microprocessor before, with 16 MB disk space, 64 MB RAM < 1209558627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# python -V < 1209558627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python 2.4.4 < 1209558631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it was a special stripped-down Python version < 1209558727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently lynx's HTML support is better than w3m's < 1209558743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or firefox's, or IE's, or opera's < 1209558755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: slashdot does seem to be down < 1209558769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I read somewhere that links was the only truly HTML-compliant browser < 1209558770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, lynx fails at tables < 1209558789 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209558807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, compare w3m and lynx on say http://rafb.net/p/4UzLvH39.html < 1209558811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a table < 1209558816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show the numbers on the side < 1209558820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the HTML spec says about tables < 1209558829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it specify that they should be displayed a certain way? < 1209558859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1209558863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in a tableish way < 1209558867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1209558870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1209558871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1209558872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1209558872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1209558875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second col 1 < 1209558876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second col 2 < 1209558877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second col 3 < 1209558880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not tabelish < 1209558882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want: < 1209558886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second col 1 < 1209558887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1209558919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doing it like lynx does it is ilogical < 1209558927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, I read somewhere that links was the only truly HTML-compliant browser < 1209558928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1209558929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading HTML 4.01, it doesn't seem to say anything about how it should be rendered < 1209558936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails sometimes at shorttags < 1209558946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it renders it best of the existing browsers < 1209558954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? I thought it was one of the only browsers that parsed shorttags at all < 1209558955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some page, someone in here made < 1209558958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elinks fails shorttags < 1209558961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at all yes < 1209558962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lynx succeeds though < 1209558967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't do that page perfectly < 1209558974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it did mess up on some shorttags iirc < 1209558979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the link to it < 1209558981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.w3.org/validator/htdocs/dev/tests/shorttags2.html < 1209558992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it was a page someone in this channel made < 1209558994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of all I tried that page works only in lynx < 1209559006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not that page, but it doesn't matter as it's the same issue :-P < 1209559012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that validator did accept < 1209559014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the page was wrong? < 1209559030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it validated, it might have meant something other than what it was meant to mean < 1209559036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1209559042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here on p iirc < 1209559059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links fails that page < 1209559074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's rather simple, it can't really be 'wrong' :-) < 1209559349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/test.html page? < 1209559358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, that was it < 1209559469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, even the validator isn't perfect: http://www.damowmow.com/playground/html-not-xml-2.html < 1209559504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, the -- in comments thing? < 1209559507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acid2 used to test it < 1209559518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the to have no effect until the next -- < 1209560049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1209560099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and lynx fails on http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/test.html here < 1209560101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly < 1209560123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" This stuff doesn't show at all, but only because HTML renderers suck." is all a link < 1209560139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it should be? < 1209560178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it shouldn't < 1209560198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thus lynx fail at shorttags < 1209560259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't show the link < 1209560300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209560309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still does better at shorttags than any other browser < 1209560319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can't handle the it still does better at shorttags than any other browser < 1209560354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209560356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not at all, because I'm busy in RL < 1209560367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc safari did render the page correctly, according to someone < 1209560374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konq 3 doesn't < 1209560378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have KDE 4 yet < 1209560514 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiting on http://browsershots.org/http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/test.html < 1209560647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's evil < 1209560663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now? :-) < 1209560667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1209560719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, shows two, unrelated screenshots < 1209560737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in not safari < 1209560747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I said "waiting on" < 1209560767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be an hour before all the results are in < 1209560779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't a premium browsershot's user, there's a time delay before they all load because the request is put to the back of the queue < 1209560818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and pikhq's site's a blank page in Epiphany < 1209560835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not surprising because the version on my computer is gecko-based < 1209560839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Expires in 24 minutes < 1209560839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Queue estimate: 20 minutes to 1 hour, 2 minutes (Details) < 1209560842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is another issue < 1209560853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can bump the expiry by clicking on a button < 1209560863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see one? < 1209560876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe you have to be the person who initiated the request < 1209560882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, click the button if you can see it! < 1209560894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only bumps it to 30 mins after you click the button, though < 1209560907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to keep clicking it? < 1209560911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1209560920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should put an ad on the button and get lots of money that way < 1209560940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1209561007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it take so long? < 1209561007 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-055-060.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1209561016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: supply compared to demand, I suspect < 1209561016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, a browser can load a page quite fast < 1209561034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the old and rare browsers are probably on a single computer on a crappy Internet connectoin < 1209561062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't explain slowness of other ones < 1209561157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a request for only Macs isn't going to help since I'm ahead of you in the queue anyway :-P < 1209561168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1209561229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can look at the stats of the computers doing it at http://browsershots.org/factories/ < 1209561248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says at one page they do at most one image / minute < 1209561289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so as not to overload people's factory computers < 1209561438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, update queue I think.. it seems to have "stepped" back in time < 1209561440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Queue estimate: 12 minutes to 37 minutes (Details)" < 1209561446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was 2-40 before < 1209561453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet no additional screenshot shows up < 1209561454 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209561488 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-48-135.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209561839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, time to refresh request soon? < 1209561855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your hurry :-) < 1209562067 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209562068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari 3.1 16 min < 1209562069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1209562075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says 5 minutes a while ago < 1209562079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just wtf < 1209562086 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-48-135.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209562089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: premium customers jumping the queue? < 1209562099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it says "starting" though < 1209562282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of browsers, but no safari < 1209562385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the screenshots are blank < 1209562397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safari 3.1 is there and it's blank < 1209562407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari 3.1 failed < 1209562408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1209562415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1209562429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not surprising, Safari and Konqueror have the same rendering engine and Konqueror has already failed on it < 1209562446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I think it was someone using some development version of safari < 1209562454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1209562458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in alpha or something < 1209562472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public beta possibly < 1209562526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1209562530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of those browsers < 1209562538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many separate rendering engines are there? < 1209562556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot are based on either KHTML or gecko I think? < 1209562564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're subtly different versions < 1209562578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. gecko of two weeks ago versus gecko of three weeks ago :-P < 1209562584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, many are the same < 1209562613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should run this on the acid3 test < 1209562622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because konq 3 segfaults on acid 3 XD < 1209562627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been run < 1209562631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1209562642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what were the results? < 1209562644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://browsershots.org/http://acid3.acidtests.org/ < 1209562655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you'd expect < 1209562667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox 2 gets 30-something < 1209562678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 50-something < 1209562691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox 3 gets 70-something < 1209562696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epiphany got 71, not bad < 1209562699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE gets crap < 1209562702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the same score as FF3 < 1209562705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera gets 60-something < 1209562712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and IE5.5 beats both IE6 and IE7, amusingly < 1209562712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later versions get 70-something < 1209562725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all of them score statistical fluctuations AFAICT < 1209562734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1209562746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 3.5.9 doesn't crash < 1209562777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, browsershots disagrees with that < 1209562787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives a score of 6 to IE5.5, as far as I can read it < 1209562797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the page even has radio buttons on, which I don't understand at all < 1209562846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE 5.5 gets 6, whereas 6.0 gets 5 and 7.0 looks like a 5 too < 1209562862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.0 does better, of course < 1209562881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE6 looks like 12 on the browsershots results < 1209562909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, two different runs < 1209562914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://browsershots.org/screenshots/8e72d11b14736bef1c26be08d8e07c3d/ and http://browsershots.org/screenshots/acf712c93182beeddc4c3caaf2e5975a/ < 1209562924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't even consistent! < 1209562931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the resolution, maybe? :-) < 1209563910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209564310 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209564358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now they're all there, 0% success rate: http://browsershots.org/http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/test.html < 1209564376 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209564425 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209564660 0 :GnOmus!n=GnOme___@LAubervilliers-153-53-38-12.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209565471 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209565835 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1209566545 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.95.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209566773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1209568850 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.95.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209568871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric set by ehird at Tue Apr 22 15:41:58 2008 < 1209568884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :* Topic for #esoteric set by ehird at Tue Apr 22 15:41:58 2008 tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric < 1209569835 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host65-82-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1209570538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209570588 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209571346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209572023 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209572741 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209572746 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-76-3.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209572868 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209573610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523nomic < 1209573620 0 :ais523nomic!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1209573948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:46] the downside of bash, is lack of a good debugger < 1209574034 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209574150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209574151 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209574166 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209574361 0 :GnOmus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209575277 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-163.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1209575277 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209575283 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-48-135.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209575721 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1209577020 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1209577244 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209577271 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209577558 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209578170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209578187 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209578246 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209578268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1209578274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1209578564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209578646 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209578873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209578889 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209580164 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209580907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209580915 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209582078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1209582079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of joinparts < 1209582085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1209582306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209582323 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209582813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209582915 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209583426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209583461 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209583474 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209583504 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209584527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209584552 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209584767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209584869 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209584980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209584989 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209585043 0 :oklopol!i=oko@dsl-tkubras1-ff3dc300-207.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1209585947 0 :sauxdado!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :aligatoro < 1209586033 0 :aligatoro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sauxdado < 1209586194 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MrsCorun < 1209586255 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209586277 0 :MrsCorun!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1209586318 0 :Iskr!n=i@host21-56-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1209586552 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209586591 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209586782 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@gb01-fap02.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209586889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1209586892 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais532 < 1209586896 0 :ais532!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1209587543 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209587543 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1209587901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209588524 0 :Tritonio!n=tritonio@athedsl-4398553.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209588754 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1209588773 0 :Tritonio!n=tritonio@athedsl-4398553.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209588925 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1209589111 0 :Tritonio!n=tritonio@athedsl-4398553.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209589358 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209589579 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1209589744 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209591704 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.95.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209593611 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1209593989 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209594115 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209594762 0 :Phenax!n=Phenax@67.15.72.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209594828 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a newb to Brainfuck, but I was wondering what's the easiest (i.e., space saving) way to set a memory pointer to a prime number? < 1209594841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-]++ sets it to 2 < 1209594854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for low numbers, you just do it like that < 1209594867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for higher numbers generally you form a product and add or subtract a bit from it < 1209594873 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1209594875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see [[e:Brainfuck constants]] < 1209594884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants < 1209594941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a list of some of the shortest ways to generate various constants known < 1209594955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(occasionally, someone will add a new shorter one, so it probably isn't perfect, but it's pretty good) < 1209595345 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209595702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1209596068 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/pics/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=3 // THANKS DOCTOR SCIENCE < 1209596532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one do floating point numbers in Brainfuck? < 1209596546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not easily, I don't think < 1209596553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well possible < 1209596554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd store the mantissa and exponent separately < 1209596557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is turing complete < 1209596567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would just be a mess trying to do additions and subtractions < 1209596572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sqrt on that is what I'm most interested in < 1209596588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: halve the exponent, sqrt the mantissa < 1209596601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqrt the mantissa < 1209596603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply the mantissa by the square root of the base if the exponent comes out non-integral < 1209596605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really help < 1209596622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it moves it from a floating-point problem to a fixed-point problem < 1209596636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, how do you calculate square root? < 1209596640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got no clue < 1209596645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1209596648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be... < 1209596650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: computers normally do it iteratively < 1209596654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x ^ (1/2) < 1209596659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't help < 1209596662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this: < 1209596663 0 :sauxdado!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :) < 1209596677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=1, b=x, then repeatedly (a=(a+b)/2, b=x/a) < 1209596681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauxdado, no as in "it doesn't help"? < 1209596689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue until a and b are sufficiently similar, then that's your answer < 1209596690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1209596694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to be pretty quick < 1209596708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other methods, of course < 1209596715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't there an opcode for it in case of floating point even? < 1209596717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1209596721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think there may be < 1209596727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either SSE or x87 < 1209596731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1209596737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know those assemblers < 1209596742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't use such opcodes in BF anyway < 1209596755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1209596805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer software programs typically implement good routines to compute the exponential function and the natural logarithm or logarithm, and then compute the square root of x using the identity < 1209596805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \sqrt{x} = e^{\frac{1}{2}\ln x} or \sqrt{x} = 10^{\frac{1}{2}\log x} " < 1209596809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wikipedia < 1209596918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1209596927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that such algorithms are cheap nowadays < 1209596935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the logs are done by lookup-table < 1209597036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSQRT for x87 < 1209597037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209597299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\z..,xbvncbvnbm.n,.cfhl:Ll.jfdfashsdhfglgdfhjgkh';aetyeurirry0]pit\asdgzdfgfhgjhkjfg < 1209597332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1209597402 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you just wanna press every key on your keyboard at once, but have to settle for pressing them sequentially in some random order, like poor ehird here < 1209597462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: pressing every key on your keyboard at once is dangerous, because you'll hit C-M-delete and C-M-backspace, among other combinations < 1209597480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209597517 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that all depends on how your keyboard is wired, certain combinations of keys are mutually exclusive, so other keys may end up preempting the dangerous key combinations < 1209597518 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.95.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209597538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I find that pressing too many keys at once just causes the computer to beep < 1209597547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you just made me press ctrl-alt-backspace < 1209597551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on Windows < 1209597552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i didn't recognize it as C-M-backspace < 1209597555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burn in hell < 1209597581 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is entirely your fault though ;-) < 1209597588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux it apparently makes the cursor flash quickly and sets /away... < 1209597597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had to hold down about 15 keys to do that < 1209597610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, in real life, again < 1209597650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned it in Emacs-speak because Emacs' release notes for the latest version mentioned that C-M-backspace and C-M-delete had been removed as shortcut keys because they generally didn't do what the user expected < 1209597673 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had my windows system swapping hard enough that clicking the mouse made that input-event-queue-full beep < 1209597687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yep, Windows gets like that sometimes < 1209597720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1209597734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'This command has been disabled beacuse it is often confusing for new u-' < 1209597739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Username:' < 1209597750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and qdb ehird above, please < 1209597759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I really gotta get that up. < 1209597762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But noted in my mental log. < 1209597796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to see Emacs pop up with 'This command has been disabled because it is COMPLETELY DANGEROUS NEVER USE IT EVER'
< 1209597806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Emacs have a reformat-harddrive instruction? < 1209597817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, then it's a bit crappy as an OSS < 1209597820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/SS/S/ < 1209597863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its < 1209597866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high level OS < 1209597870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1209597893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also: 'This command has been disabled. Because.' < 1209599488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1209599673 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209599693 0 :revcompgeek!n=chatzill@66.236.68.253.ptr.us.xo.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209599883 0 :revcompgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have noticed that many of the languages on the wiki are compiled. < 1209599889 0 :revcompgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they compiled to? < 1209599968 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything and everything and nothing < 1209599982 0 :revcompgeek!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything specific? < 1209599994 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, often something specific :P